1 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: Okay, guys, welcome back to a new episode of You 2 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat I am the host. 3 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: And before we get started, a quick reminder that although 4 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: this is a podcast called You Need Therapy and I'm 5 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: a licensed therapist, this podcast is not a substitute or 6 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: replacement for actual mental health services. However, we really hope 7 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: it is helpful on whatever journey you were on or 8 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: maybe even gets you into finding the services that you need. 9 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 1: And today's episode I mean that especially because we are 10 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: coming back with round three of this series that I've 11 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: called The Difference Between. Did that make sense? How why 12 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: I named it that? Yeah? I thought it was a 13 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: good little label. Okay, So I have Terra Booker here, 14 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,319 Speaker 1: who is also a licensed therapist, who, well, you call 15 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: yourself a license therapist or a licensed social worker and 16 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: depends on who I'm talking. Okay, well she's about I 17 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 1: practice therapy as a licensed social worker. So to say 18 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: I'm a licensed social worker could mean so many things. 19 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: To say I'm a licensed therapist tells you what I do. 20 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: Somebody asked me the difference between Okay, it's a good name, 21 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: somebody asked me. Or I had to feel something out 22 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: recently that said what do you do versus what do 23 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,559 Speaker 1: people think you do? Oh that's a good question. Well 24 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: the way I answered it because there's so many ways 25 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 1: I think so many people think I do different things. 26 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: But this is funny. I was going to close on 27 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: my new house that I live in now, and the 28 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: I don't know if he was like the owner of 29 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,559 Speaker 1: the attorney practice. I don't know what you call those things. 30 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: But anyway, he was talking and my dad was there. 31 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: My dad said, what does your daughter do? I don't 32 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: know why we were talking about his daughter, but he 33 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: said that, and he goes, I don't really know she 34 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: she talks to people. And I was like, what is 35 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: her job? And he's like, oh, she's like she does 36 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: like some she's like a counselor. And I was like, so, 37 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: I don't think he knew that, but I was like, 38 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: I think that's what a lot of people are like, Oh, 39 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: you just talk to people, you just have conversations. But 40 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 1: when I answered it, I said, I think a lot 41 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: of people think that I am. Like what I do 42 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: is I make people like happy, and I like, am 43 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: really soothing all the time and everybody's favorite person, when 44 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: sometimes that's might be true, but a lot of times 45 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: it's not true. And of course there's different kinds of therapists, 46 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: so some people might do that. But that would be 47 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: interesting if you guys sent in, like what do you 48 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: think a therapist does? Maybe like you know now because 49 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: maybe you go, But what was your preconceived idea before 50 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 1: you went? And then how were you surprised? That would 51 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: be a good What is therapy versus what we think 52 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: it is and what we talk? Well, I guess we're 53 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: gonna actually talk about that anyway. Anyway, all right, so 54 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: I have tear here again obviously, and today we're going 55 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 1: to cover a couple of things, a lot centered around trauma, 56 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: I would say. And what we're gonna do is we're 57 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: gonna start super broad, and then we are going to 58 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: talk about some intricacies of the beginning of what we're 59 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: gonna talk about, and that is, like I said, trauma, 60 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: What is trauma? What do we think trauma is? What 61 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: does TikTok say trauma is? We were talking earlier about 62 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: a way we learned how to describe it that I 63 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: used to use a lot, and I in the past 64 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: couple of years have been like this is really getting 65 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: out of hand and the way I at first would 66 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: speak about trauma. And I might have even done that 67 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: on the podcast and said this on the podcast before. 68 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: So I'm taking responsibility for some of the misconceptions. Was 69 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: I used to secre we learned, we learned more language, 70 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: like we talked about last time, So I used to say, 71 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: trauma is anything less than nurturing, where if you didn't 72 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: get what you need what you needed at a time, 73 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: and that can be a true matic experience in that 74 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: was really helpful to help people understand the difference between 75 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: these little T traumas and these big T traumas. Have 76 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: you heard that? We're not supposed to say that anymore. 77 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: I know it can be a minimization of the calling 78 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: it little. I understand there's but it's like there's black 79 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 1: and there's great to every single thing in the world. 80 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: It's helpful and it can be minimizing, and hopefully if 81 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: I'm talking to a person in full conversation about it, 82 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: then they understand what the use of little versus big means. Yeah, 83 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: And I think that's important to say too, because while 84 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: something might be minimizing to somebody, to somebody else, it 85 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: might be Oh, now I can acknowledge my stuff, So 86 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna still say that. Lots of clients still tell 87 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: me that it's helpful. Well, and we'll get to We're 88 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: going to move into something that like if it does 89 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 1: bother you, we can talk about some things that you 90 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 1: might need to do or might be helpful because we 91 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: can't control what everybody else does and how they speak. 92 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: So I want to talk about what actually is trauma? 93 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: So how are we seeing it these days? And I 94 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: want to give you the floor, but how are you 95 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,799 Speaker 1: seeing it these days? And then as an actual clinician, 96 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:18,720 Speaker 1: how would you describe it to a client or even 97 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: just like a random person that stops you. I was like, hey, 98 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: you're a therapist, what is trauma? It just happens all 99 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: the time, every yep, somebody looks at you the wrong way? Trauma? Um? 100 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: What is trauma? I like to define trauma as a 101 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: perceived or actual threat to safety, which can mean a 102 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: variety of areas. We have emotional safety, with physical safety, 103 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: with sexual safety, spiritual safety. So all the different parts 104 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: of being a human have different components of what feels 105 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: safe in those realms of being you. So we have 106 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: emotional needs, we have spiritual needs. We have physical needs, 107 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 1: we have sexual needs, right, we have all these different 108 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 1: kinds of needs as humans. We understand this about ourselves 109 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: for the most part. And if there is a threat 110 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: to those being accessed or being met, for me, that 111 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: I have an emotional sense of safety in the home 112 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: with the parents that I live with. If I don't 113 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: have an emotional safety, it's not acceptable for me to cry. 114 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 1: I might be yelled at. I might be ridiculed if 115 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: I say that I'm having a hard time at school 116 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: and somebody says, toughen up, figure it out, like that 117 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: violates my sense of safety for an emotional need. And 118 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: then physical and sexual and spiritual are a little bit 119 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: more explicit um in nature to understand. So can it 120 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: be true that what is traumatic for me is not 121 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: traumatic for you? Absolutely? And that might be based on 122 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: just our makeup, our temperament, and it might be based 123 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:02,239 Speaker 1: on our experiences that then create our protective measures culture culture, 124 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: because I'm just thinking about let's just go with Christianity 125 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: with spiritual safety. Where somebody might feel like they have 126 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: spiritual trauma from something they heard or experienced or were taught, 127 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: but somebody else in that same spot might have felt 128 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: very cared for and that realm, And I think I 129 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: like bringing that up because I'm so grateful that there's 130 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: more conversations about the trauma that can happen within a 131 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: perceived loving environment and how sometimes that's not how we 132 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: receive it, but that's still a place for a lot 133 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: of people that they do feel very cared for in. 134 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: And it's turning this stuff into black and white. I 135 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: see a lot on TikTok about Oh my gosh, man, 136 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: I wish I could bring this video up, But there 137 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: was this video that was explaining how preachers or speakers 138 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: or whoever are taught to manipulate you using different effects 139 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: of speech and ways of in in speeds of speech 140 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: and volume, taking you on a journey. And I was like, okay, 141 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 1: but like, so does music, right, And I feel like 142 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: so connected sometimes when I listen to music that gets 143 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: me into deep space. So does therapy, Like we don't 144 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: just like in the beginning, you come in and we 145 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: talk at one level and we don't ever change our 146 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: other voice, like we're in certain spaces we talk more soft. 147 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: Sometimes we need to yell. And so I thought that 148 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 1: was interesting that somebody was explaining that and also can 149 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: be really hurtful, because it doesn't mean that using a 150 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: like how we talked about manipulation isn't always bad, using 151 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: a way of speech that can actually be really helpful 152 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: to help somebody access a place of vulnerability that they 153 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 1: otherwise wouldn't have been able to do. And I'm not 154 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 1: negating spiritual trauma at all, but I just think it 155 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: might be important to know that, like what's traumatic for 156 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: me doesn't mean it has to be traumatic for you. Absolutely. 157 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 1: I also read a article and I used it for 158 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 1: an episode to which one, But it was an article 159 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: titled if everything is trauma as anything trauma? And I 160 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: liked what she was saying. She was not a mental 161 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: health professional, and she was very open about that. She 162 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 1: was just like putting a conversation out there, just like 163 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: if everything is gas slighting as anything gas lighting side note, 164 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: somebody lying to you is not gas flighting. But how 165 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: would you answer that question or how would you even 166 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: dive into that conversation if somebody was like, what seems 167 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: like everything is traumatic? Now? So is everything traumatic? Yeah? 168 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: I mean I think I'll work around that definition that 169 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: I gave as a perceived a real threat to say, 170 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: a sense of safety. When we think about the idea 171 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: of threat, that's a high level of an experience of 172 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 1: a word. I think sometimes I might have an experience. 173 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: It's like I'm trying to think of a different kind 174 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: of example. So those examples that I gave were real 175 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: threats to a sort of like if someone's raging in 176 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: my house, there's an obvious threat to my physical safety. 177 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: If my parents tell me get over at tough enough, 178 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:21,760 Speaker 1: that's an explicit threat to my emotional safety. If I 179 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: maybe have like a boss or a coworker who is 180 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: like this isn't this You know, I come in and 181 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm not present, like I'm not able to 182 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: think in a meeting or something, and I'm tell my boss, 183 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: you know, they were like checking with me after and 184 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 1: during They're like, hey, you didn't have like you we 185 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: didn't have your ideas together, you didn't have feedback on 186 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: this idea. What happened? And you say, you know, I 187 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,320 Speaker 1: had a really bad situation at home last night with 188 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: my family, and your boss maybe says I understand, but 189 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: this is a job and you've got to come in 190 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: prepared or you need to let me know that you 191 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 1: can't work that day, I needed to take like a 192 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: sick day, Like I understand, but this isn't the space 193 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: where you you can bring that, you know. Maybe that's 194 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: a way that people might talk about that, and it's 195 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: kind of like workspaces. Then I think that's where it 196 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: could be perceived as like, oh, this isn't supportive of 197 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: my emotional safety here, because technically that's not what they're doing. 198 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: They're not They're to supporting. Okay, I like that, So 199 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: then we could like break down what does it mean, 200 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: like is it a real threat just because in a 201 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: certain space, I'm not experiencing that nurture, Well, I'm wanting 202 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: somebody to play a role that it's not their role. 203 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: So I think that was actually really helpful, and that 204 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: still can be traumatic for somebody because maybe they have 205 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: experiences where they don't know where to turn to or 206 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: who should be the people that nurture them or any 207 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 1: there's so much nuance in that. It's making me think 208 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: of the interview I did with JP Sacks that came out. 209 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if this was in the episode that 210 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: came out last week or the week before. I think 211 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: it was last week, but he was talking about masculinity 212 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: and how he was like, I don't want to throw 213 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: out like all of the part of masculinity just because 214 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: I don't want to live in a toxic masculinity culture. 215 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:16,119 Speaker 1: And for example, he was like with I'm a professional 216 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: athlete and somebody says something mean to me on the court, Like, 217 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: I need to be able to hold it together so 218 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: I can finish my job and not start crying or 219 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: weeping and maintain what I need to maintain while I'm working. Later, 220 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: I might have a moment with somebody. I'm ad limiting 221 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: some of us. Adding to what he said, maybe I 222 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: might have a moment with a friend or a teammate 223 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: or something, but on the court is not the time 224 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: for me to have that experience. And I think that's 225 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: part of the human experience is there are times where 226 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: we can let everything go and there are times when 227 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: we just have to And it sounds like I'm like 228 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 1: forcing trauma on somebody as I say this, but there's 229 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 1: times that we have to find ways to cope until 230 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: we can get to that place. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, 231 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,440 Speaker 1: I think that there's moments when it is egregious, like 232 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: it's an egregious violation of my safety in those areas, 233 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: and that's traumatic in any realm in a workplace, and 234 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: you know like that that's it's possible in those spaces too. 235 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: And I think if we're thinking like zooming out and 236 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: thinking about those areas of my life being supported and 237 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: having security that they are nurtured and on the whole, 238 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: then I might know that that's not a place where 239 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,199 Speaker 1: I have to experience that as being nurtured or taken 240 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: care of our supported there because I have other places 241 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: where I'm going. Somebody wrote on Instagram that we have 242 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: to stop calling work a family. I love that, and 243 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 1: I sometimes do. I'm i guts say, that's like my sister, 244 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: and your boss is going to treat you differently than 245 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: your mom. Your coworker is going to treat you differently 246 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: than your sister or brother. And there are expectations of family, 247 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: and then there's expectations of work environments and we are 248 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 1: convoluting them. And I think this, what you're saying is 249 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: speaking a lot to that. Alright, So now that we 250 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: got that part out of the way, I'm going to 251 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: add one thing about perceived or real I think that's 252 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: something that can be confusing, just to know if someone 253 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: is raging in your home and they never actually hit you, 254 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: but they break a bunch of stuff. Your body doesn't 255 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: know the difference between I am in threat versus the 256 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 1: room is in threat. Like your body doesn't know the 257 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: difference between perceived or actual. If I think I'm I 258 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: might get hit by an object or the person at 259 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: any moment because they are so obviously out of control, 260 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: then my body is in a state of threat to 261 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: my safety just as much as it would be if 262 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: that person was directing it at me. So that's something 263 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: where it's like, even if it didn't happen, it doesn't 264 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: really matter better if it wasn't severe enough of a 265 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: threat around you, you perceived that you were about to 266 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: fall off a cliff. Even though you didn't about the 267 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: fall off a cliff, you still had the harness or whatever. 268 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: I don't know. Your body doesn't necessarily know the difference. Well, 269 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: your brain. That makes me think of like war, speaking 270 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: of like what's going on in Ukraine and in all 271 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: of that, like your city. Although if you were living 272 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: in Ukraine and it probably did happen, But even if 273 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: your home doesn't get bombed, you are still sitting there 274 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: knowing that bombs could happen at any moment, So that's 275 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:38,680 Speaker 1: a constant state of fear and fret. And yeah, you 276 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: might make it out alive and you didn't get actually 277 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: bombed and you were able to escape, you still thought 278 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: that that was going to happen. So I think there's 279 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: a lot of things like that, where like somebody might 280 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: be like, I was never going to hit you, and 281 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: it's like, well, I didn't know you were. You look 282 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: like you lost control, So how was Ilsson know that 283 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 1: you could know not to hit me and to just 284 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: throw that bowl? Right? So I'm glad you said that. 285 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: So let's talk about PTSD for a second, and we 286 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: don't have to get into all the ins and outs 287 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: of it because it's way too big for that. But 288 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 1: something I hear often is sorry, I was having PTSD 289 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: or I have PTSD, or I just had a PTSD moment, 290 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: And I get the sentiment. I totally do, And it 291 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: can be something that I think some people use as humor. 292 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: But again, as when we do this, it does convolute 293 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: the meaning and so what does it actually mean to 294 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: have PTSD. We're not gonna here's what we're not going 295 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 1: to do we're not giving you complete diagnostic criteria where 296 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: now you are able to go diagnose yourself and other people. 297 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: We're just explaining what it actually is versus how we're 298 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: using it day to day. Yeah. Well that's the first 299 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: point is that it is a diagnosis. It's not just 300 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: an experience that you might have where you can set 301 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: a feeling. It's not a feeling. It's not like that 302 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: was trauma having iety in that moment. Like, it's a 303 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 1: diagnosis of a disorder, which means it comes with a 304 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: lot of criteria. You have to meet a lot of 305 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: different things and experiences have had to be going on 306 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: for you to even qualify to have a post traumatic 307 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: stress disorder diagnosis. UM. And it's I think some like 308 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 1: maybe key points would be it is prolonged, like this 309 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: is something that kind of you live with, like as 310 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: if you had hypertension or something for a period of 311 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: you know, a year or two years, like you would 312 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: be having post traumatic stress disorder technically be living with 313 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: it every day for potentially a long period of time 314 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 1: and until you got healing or treatment that you might 315 00:17:44,760 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: need to decrease the severity of those symptoms, and you 316 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 1: might not even qualify after you had you know, a 317 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: certain amount of treatment. So it's not something that you 318 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: just kind of have like a one off experience of 319 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: this one time I had PTSD. Yeah, it doesn't happen 320 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 1: right now, this because it reminded me of something and 321 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: I'm over overwhelmed by this and having PTSD. It's it's 322 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: really chronic really in a lot of ways. Something that 323 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: that's interesting that you said something that reminds you of 324 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: another experience that you've had once that might shake you 325 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: a little bit or again offer some anxiety inside of 326 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: your body or some fear that's not PTSD. That's literally 327 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 1: what I just said, And those are directions. Yes, yeah, 328 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: so I think it's fair to have that. We have 329 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: those moments where maybe it's in a relationship where amasis 330 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: feels like something I experienced that was less than nurturing 331 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 1: in my past relationship. That doesn't mean I'm having PTSD. 332 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: That sentence that doesn't even fit. Yeah, Yeah, you either 333 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 1: have a disorder every day or don't, or you don't. 334 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: Just because you have trauma doesn't also mean you have PTSD. 335 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: Is because you might have had that experience where you 336 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: had a real threat to your safety and it didn't 337 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: live unresolved in your body and prolonged and where you 338 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: still carry that in a way as if it's currently 339 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: happening to you. Let's say I had some emotional neglect 340 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: as a child, and for whatever reason, maybe I was 341 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: prentified where I was at saragas spouse, I had to 342 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: take on rules that weren't typical of a kid, and 343 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: then later in life I am very independent and I 344 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,919 Speaker 1: maybe had lean more avoidant on the attachment scale. What 345 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: would you say to somebody who's like, well, because of 346 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: my PTSD, I do this, there's some trauma and it 347 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 1: is affecting the way I live my life. But does 348 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: that mean that I now have this chronic diagnosis that 349 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,439 Speaker 1: I can express well based on the criteria that you 350 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: just gave me about what you're doing. No, that doesn't 351 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: qualify you for PTSD. It's really really disruptive to your 352 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: well being. PTS to your ability to function at various 353 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: levels of life. I think that's important to say. And 354 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: it does not mean that they are not some things 355 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: that you might need and some things you might want 356 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: to work on in therapy. Just because you don't have 357 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: a diagnosis of PTSD. It doesn't mean that you don't 358 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: have some maladaptive coping strategies that you might want to 359 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: work on, or you might want to bring your attachment 360 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: into a more secure place. That does not mean that. 361 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,719 Speaker 1: So again, I'm want to say this a jillion times, 362 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: We're not minimizing your experience because it still sounds like 363 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,880 Speaker 1: there's some work to do. Yeah, I think I use 364 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: words like it's a dysfunctional pattern. If you came from 365 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: a dysfunctional family system, or that was one of the 366 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: dysfunctional elements of your family, and that's the dysfunctional role 367 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: that you've taken on in response to being in that 368 00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: dysfunctional system. So, speaking of PTSD, can we talk about dissociating? Okay, 369 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 1: So I want you guys to think about what you 370 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 1: think in the realm of mental health of what it 371 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: means for me to dissociate. Think about what comes to 372 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 1: your mind, and then we're going to talk about in 373 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: the realm of trauma and mental health what that actually means. 374 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 1: Because I do think there's multiple ways to look at this. 375 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: I can dissociate zone out right, there's a very long 376 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: scale of dissociation. Okay, So can you speak to that? 377 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 1: So dissociation is a very natural mechanism in the human system, 378 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: and there's a scale from like mild to severe. If 379 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: we think about it that way, mild would be something 380 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: that we all do on a regular basis in our lives. 381 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: It's like the brain's ability to leave specific, the specific 382 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: attention on the moment that you're in and go somewhere else. 383 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: If we're putting it really simply, so mild ways that 384 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 1: we do that that are actually pretty functional for the 385 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 1: getting stuff done in our lives would be if I'm 386 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: driving home and I'm making a list of stuff I 387 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: need to get at the grocery, and I don't actually 388 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: remember turning on that street, turning on the next street, 389 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, I'm at the stop 390 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: signing right before my house. I got there without having 391 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,719 Speaker 1: to have so much of my brain's full attention on 392 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: that activity that I was presently in, because I could 393 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: go on autopilot, because I've done it a million times, 394 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: I don't have to give my full attention to this 395 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: present task. I can go somewhere else and actually kind 396 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 1: of do another task in my head and still do 397 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,959 Speaker 1: the thing that I'm in in my present life. So 398 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: that's a very mild. Normal people do these different levels 399 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: and variations of that all the time. So the reason 400 00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: why we can do anything is because it's a part 401 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: of our normal functioning, right, So like anxiety and everything 402 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: is a part of our normal functioning, and there's arranged 403 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 1: to all of them that become disruptive and really maladaptive. 404 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:10,120 Speaker 1: So then you get to higher levels of dissociation, and 405 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: this is where you may have had a traumatic experience 406 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: and you don't remember it. You can't actually access like 407 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: visual images. You weren't even under the influence of something 408 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: that might have intoxicated you to take away your memory, 409 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,919 Speaker 1: but your brain kind of took you out of the 410 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: present moment, turned off your present awareness of it, and 411 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: so it's not stored as easily easily accessible in your 412 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: memory bank to be able to pull that up. And 413 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: then there's higher levels than that, where you literally lose 414 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: days or hours of time in your life because your 415 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: dissociative to such a high degree. You still are moving 416 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,479 Speaker 1: around too. In certain it depends on people's ability of 417 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: what they can do when they're at high levels. But 418 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: a lot of times, like I've heard client have really 419 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: high how qualified for dissocie disorder have driven to difference 420 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 1: and woke up is what they'll call it. It's like 421 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: I woke up in a different state, like a not 422 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: state of being, but a state in the United States. 423 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: Like I drove like eight hours somewhere and didn't know 424 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,360 Speaker 1: how I got because so you're driving like you're I mean, 425 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,400 Speaker 1: this is the magic of the human body. It can 426 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: still do things without something. Yeah, you don't need it 427 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: doesn't need your awareness to be able to function and 428 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 1: do lots of mechanisms. And I think that's where like 429 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: the body is so fascinating and incredible and we're going 430 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: to continue to learn more things as the world moves on. 431 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:42,479 Speaker 1: But where like this thing that's actually super normally helpful 432 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: in everyday life in traumatic experiences, our body or our 433 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: mind takes that and uses it for good because protecting 434 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: for protection, and then it turns into this thing that 435 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: I mean, we're not really in control of it anyway, 436 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: but then it turns into this thing that actually can 437 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: become very dysfunctional and disruptive in our lives. Where over here, 438 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: when I'm getting to the grocery store, now my list 439 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: in my brain super helpful and functional. Over here, we've 440 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: taken this skill and we've used it to protect us, 441 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,359 Speaker 1: but now it's created some kind of dysfunction in our life. 442 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: We don't need to fix the dissociation where you got 443 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: to the grocery store. We might need to fix the 444 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: dissociation where you're driving across state lines without knowing, or 445 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,239 Speaker 1: you were in a work meeting for two hours and 446 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 1: you have no idea what happened. Right, Yes, because you 447 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,679 Speaker 1: were associated to that level like there. Those are the 448 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 1: kind of maybe middle range where people who are walking 449 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: around and association is one of the criteria for PTS 450 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: one of many. Yeah, And I do think that's I 451 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: don't want people to get confused with like daydreaming, zoning out. Yeah. 452 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: I think that also comes with just the no typical 453 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: versus ni different like some people just by us. I 454 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: I'm just like, Oh, there's a thing over there. What 455 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:05,959 Speaker 1: story can I make up about that? And I'm like, 456 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: wait a second, But that is a whole different ball game. 457 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: There's actually different ways to help alleviate that if it's 458 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: causing some disruption in your life. Okay, so next thing 459 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 1: I want to talk about. Yeah, I like to say also, 460 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: if you say I'm assos seeing right now, you're probably 461 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: not you're not aware. I shouldn't laugh at that, but 462 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: I think I'm laughing because it's like it shouldn't be 463 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 1: such a kind of antithetical to the whole. Yes, right, 464 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: And when I have experienced somebody in that state, when 465 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: they wake up from that state, I have to explain 466 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: what happened. And sometimes they're like, huh what. So if 467 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: you are, like in a therapy session, you're like, I'm sorry, 468 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: I'm associating. No, I think that you might be avoiding. Yeah, 469 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 1: and if you're actually been doing a lot of work 470 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 1: around agentification of dissociation and trying to work the muscles 471 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: of like staying present in mindfulness and grounding, you will 472 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: start to realize when it moves starts to move the 473 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: way and to be able to start to catch it. 474 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: So there is that level, but you will have had 475 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: to do a lot of work around that to get 476 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: to that place. Yeah, A common thing I also hear. 477 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: This is an everyday language, whether you're in a therapy 478 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: office or you're hanging out with your friends, is oh 479 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: my gosh, I had a panic attack. Oh my gosh, 480 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: I'm having a panic attack. Can you tell us what 481 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 1: a panic attack is. So some of the things that 482 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: it lists specific to panic attack are there's a lot 483 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 1: of physiological symptoms happening a lot in your body. Fear, 484 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: it's like fear of losing control or death, rapid heart rate, sweating, trembling, shaking, 485 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: shortness of breath, hot flashes, nausea, chest pain, headache, dizziness, 486 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: feeling of I'm not in reality right now? Where am I? 487 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: It's intense, like high, high level of like really you'd 488 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: be at a ten on the zero to ten scale 489 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: of anxiety or distress, and it's sudden, like it really 490 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: come out of nowhere. And they're usually panic attacks are 491 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 1: usually short because your body won't actually even be able 492 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,239 Speaker 1: to tolerate that level of like a high heart rate 493 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: or things like that for a very long time. You 494 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: might still linger in like kind of after effects of 495 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 1: like still not feeling calm. You won't feel calm, you're 496 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: probably as certain, but that level of I'm about to die, 497 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: that's essentially what your body. If you were giving your 498 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: body's reaction language whatever it's happening, it would it would 499 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: be to that level of expression, I am about to 500 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: die right now, Get me out of here even when 501 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: you actually are not going to die absolutely, And so 502 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,280 Speaker 1: I think something to zone in on. If you're listening, 503 00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: you're like, I use that, or I say that, or 504 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: or am I having panic attacks? There is a high 505 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: heart rate. Oftentimes it feels like you cannot breathe and 506 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: it is not going to last you for hours. That 507 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: is very key where I can have high anxiety in 508 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: my body for hours and not be able to fully 509 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: self soothe myself. But that might not be a panic attack, 510 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: that might be something else. Yeah, I think there's anxiety, 511 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: which is has a whole spectrum of like what's normal 512 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: and then what's kind of hard, and then what's intolerable. 513 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: And that's one Like that's kind of the key ingredient 514 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: to panic is anxiety. But I don't know. I'm just 515 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: thinking about some of my most of my most disregulated 516 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: experiences in life rather than even like information from clients 517 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: or something like that, but just from a personal perspective, 518 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: I think about the level of just again, like the 519 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: level of disruption that it might have to the moment 520 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: that you're in. Can I even get myself to grab 521 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: essential oil, pick up the phone and like or put 522 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 1: on a meditation or something like that. If I can 523 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 1: access some of those skills or even trying to do them, 524 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: I might not be at the level of panic. I 525 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: guess it might, because there's there's never an absolute to 526 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: these things. Everybody's different. But I might be having really 527 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: a high, high level of anxiety moment um. But I'm 528 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: thinking about so when I found out the night that 529 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: my brother died, I think if I was just talking 530 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: like flippantly about that, I might be like I was 531 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 1: having a panic attack, like in the way that people 532 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: because it was one of the highest levels of stress, 533 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: an emotional distress of experience to my life. I actually 534 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: when I look at myself and when I even kind 535 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: of was in myself, I mean, I've done a lot 536 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: of work too on myself to be able to manage 537 00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 1: hard things in life. So I was okay, and there 538 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: was like this sliver of like that's core part of 539 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 1: me that new I'm not dying right now. I'm just 540 00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: in immense pain pain, yeah, and I don't know what 541 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: to do with myself. That's so importile, that's so important, 542 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: the difference between being an immense pain and the difference 543 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: between having a panic attack. Because now a panic attack 544 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: is painful. I'm kind of thinking about what you're saying 545 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: and applying that to my experiences as well. And I've 546 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: had moments where I have been like hysterically crying, like 547 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: I had to pull off the road, like my heart 548 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: is fast. But I also know that this is due 549 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: to this experience that I'm having, and I'm actually just 550 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 1: really sad and I don't know how to soothe myself 551 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: with my sadness. And I also have had moments where 552 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: out of nowhere, my heart has been racing really really 553 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: really fast, and I have all these feelings flooding my brain. 554 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: I don't actually know what they're from, and that I 555 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: wouldn't classify as a panic attack either. But I don't 556 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: think that's important because I don't think that what we're 557 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 1: talking about, the difference between is that important for those 558 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: kinds of things, because when it comes down to it, 559 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: you can use that verbage if it fits for you. 560 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 1: What I really want to clear this up is that 561 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: every time we feel a little nervous, or we get 562 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,959 Speaker 1: some news that we don't like and we do cry, 563 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: or we have a feeling that is not great, or 564 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: we have a higher level anxiety that than we normally have. 565 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: I have to use a skill that doesn't mean that 566 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: I'm having a panic attack, and it's necessary because I 567 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: think if that's happening, I actually need to connect what 568 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: I'm feeling to what's going on, so then I can 569 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: actually meet the need that I need to meet. So 570 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: I think when it comes down to it, it's not 571 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: the biggest deal to be like that was that wasn't 572 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: that was? That wasn't in these more higher intense experiences, 573 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: unless you're trying to seek medication for panic attacks and 574 00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: you actually don't need that, and then it ends up 575 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: just numbing your emotional experience. Because I personally, I can 576 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 1: say this far out from it, would not want to 577 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: numb that experience that I had where I was very 578 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: elevated and hysterically crying because to me, it was a 579 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: way for me to get out a lot of the 580 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: emotional pain that was like just bubbling up inside of 581 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: my body. So I don't want to take medication for 582 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: that because that was helpful to me. I feel the 583 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: same way, I wouldn't want to have any less of 584 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: that experience around my grief, Like that's precious to me. 585 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: It's a connection to that person, to the the relationship 586 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: to their life, to their existence, and again, like there 587 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: are levels of that I think that are intolerable, and 588 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,719 Speaker 1: people have to literally hold hold someone on the ground 589 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: while they're in the midst of out of control failing. 590 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,520 Speaker 1: I think that's something that I think does feel like 591 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: really distinct when people are using the word it's when 592 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 1: they feel out of control. And you know, experiences like 593 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: that that you had could lead to you having panic 594 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: attacks if I am connecting that experience with other perceived threats. Right. Yeah, 595 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: I've had some anxiety what I would call high levels 596 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: for me because I'm not a very anxious person, and 597 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: so also my skill is different than other people's, which 598 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: is really important to know. I don't because I don't 599 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,439 Speaker 1: experience a lot. When I have probably like a level five, 600 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,279 Speaker 1: it builds pretty hard for me to sit with because 601 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 1: I'm normally at like I had one, you know, So 602 00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: I've had intense moment its anxiety about other people in 603 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 1: my life. My brother died from an addiction, who have 604 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 1: addictive issues, and all of a sudden, I can't get 605 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: ahold of them, and my mind is not actually reacting 606 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: just to that present person, It's reacting both to the 607 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 1: fact to the experience that my brother died. And that's 608 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: what that could mean if this person is not answering 609 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: me right now, and if you know, depending on my 610 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: level of stability in my own emotional wellness and how 611 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 1: much I'm kind of really like feeding that in my 612 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 1: life and getting my needs met, I could be having 613 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,240 Speaker 1: panic every time I don't hear from a certain person. 614 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 1: Could be having a panic attack every time that happened 615 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: to me, um, if I had a lot of unresolved 616 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 1: you know, wounds around that. Yeah, well it makes me 617 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 1: kind of think about two things. One, people who have 618 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: this intense fear of flying that popped in my head 619 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 1: when you said perceived threat because planes have crashed before. 620 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 1: You might not have ever been in one of those planes, 621 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: but you know that planes have crashed before, and so 622 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: there's every time you step on this plane, there's a 623 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: perceived threat even though you are safe, and that could 624 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: send you into a state of panic because you are 625 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 1: not in control. You're not in control of the plane 626 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,760 Speaker 1: or what happens to that plane. The same thing in relationships, 627 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: when let's say you got blindsided and somebody broke up 628 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: with you and then you're in another relationship and everything 629 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: is going swimmingly right, But now you have lived in 630 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: the space where there can always be a perceived threat 631 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 1: because something happened out of nowhere. Maybe and so you 632 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 1: could be having a great day and maybe you're having 633 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: like a wonderful time with your partners. Some someday, maybe 634 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: you're on a vacation and you just go into a 635 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 1: panic because you have this awareness that I'm not in 636 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 1: control and this is actually feeling good, so I want 637 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: to hold onto it. But I'm not in control of 638 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,319 Speaker 1: what happens, and anything could happen. So there's a lot 639 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: of ways that this can show up and happen in 640 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: your life. I think what might be important if you 641 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: feel like you are struggling with or from having these 642 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 1: panic attacks or panic in your life would be to 643 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: talk to a mental health professional and say, like, I 644 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: don't know what this is. It feels like this. How 645 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 1: do I find a way to cope with this or 646 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: alleviate this because I don't want it to keep Nobody 647 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: wants that to keep happening. We don't want that to 648 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: keep happening to you. Versus, Oh, I'm just having this 649 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: moderate level of anxiety that maybe I need to work 650 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,640 Speaker 1: with and learn how to sit with discomfort. And I 651 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 1: think we use the word attack if it lasts a 652 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: long time, like if I'm feeling anxious for an hour 653 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: and I haven't been able to get over it or 654 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 1: let go or get back associated to my life. I 655 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: think sometimes that's when we use the word like anxiety 656 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: attack again. But it's just you know, it's not the 657 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,799 Speaker 1: necessarily the wrong word. But for me, I would just 658 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: say I was really stuck in anxiety about this. I 659 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: was stuck in fear about this for longer than I 660 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 1: would have sometimes when I tried some things and I, yea, 661 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,359 Speaker 1: it maybe didn't automatically relieve me of that. And I think, 662 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: going back to what you said in the first episode 663 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,320 Speaker 1: we did, is some people just want language to explain 664 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,240 Speaker 1: their experience. And if we have limited language and everything 665 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 1: has a panic attack or everything is an anxiety attack, 666 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 1: I don't know what to call prolonged anxiety. So the 667 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,439 Speaker 1: whole point of this whole series is to help people 668 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: understand and give language that better helps them explain understand 669 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,560 Speaker 1: their experience. So we have more for you. Don't worry. 670 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,319 Speaker 1: This episode is coming to an end, but there is 671 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: another one that I think you guys are going to 672 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:16,839 Speaker 1: be very interested in. It might be a little bit 673 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 1: of a hot take, just teasing a little bit. Yeah, 674 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: I think I want to say things in all of 675 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,840 Speaker 1: the stuffs like I wish I had this, like almost 676 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 1: as a tagline on every single bit of these that 677 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: we're talking about, which is at the heart what I 678 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 1: think for you and I about having these kind of 679 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: conversations and giving different language and trying to give some 680 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: more accuracy to specific language and experiences is not to minimize, 681 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: diminish or to box in certain things to say this 682 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: can't be this or this can't be that. But for 683 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,200 Speaker 1: me and what I think for you too, is it's 684 00:38:54,880 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 1: really about wanting mental health information to empower people, which 685 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: we did say before, and to not fragilized people. Oh 686 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: my god. Yes, and that's all this is about. And 687 00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:12,240 Speaker 1: there's a really fine line about how this stuff can 688 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: affect us. I think you know when someone gets a 689 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: diagnosis of this is PTSD and they actually are like, 690 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,080 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, that's what's happening, and they have that 691 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: moment of relief where things make sense and they don't 692 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,799 Speaker 1: feel like they're crazy person who's out of control of themselves. 693 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 1: That's the empower side of having language that's accurate to 694 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: describe this is a real thing, this is what you're experiencing. 695 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: And then there's there's probably a moment after that where 696 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,800 Speaker 1: they're like, oh, ship, this is I'm stuck with this. 697 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 1: What does this mean? Am I, you know, going to 698 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,399 Speaker 1: be able to live my life that fear of kind 699 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:53,399 Speaker 1: of fragilization kind of my enter. It's not that it's 700 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: not a part of it, but I think if we 701 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: get stuck in that where it's to say, you have 702 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: pt S D and I walk around with that as 703 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 1: my identity, and I'm like, I'm sorry, Like I'm this 704 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,359 Speaker 1: is me, and I feel I've taken it on as 705 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,839 Speaker 1: a thing that actually limits my capacity to be and 706 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:15,359 Speaker 1: live the way I want to live in my life. 707 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,319 Speaker 1: It's not helped me at that point. No, And I 708 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,279 Speaker 1: think a lot of the stuff I see over and 709 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,359 Speaker 1: over again, I'm so freaking glad you've said that. I'm 710 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: going to say that as a special clip because so 711 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,400 Speaker 1: much of what I see on the Internet, and again, 712 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 1: I don't know that most of it is trying to 713 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,400 Speaker 1: cause harm. I do think some of it has motives 714 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 1: of trying to gain followers and make money, which like 715 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 1: I'm a therapist and like I go to work to 716 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 1: make money to my goal is always to have a 717 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,360 Speaker 1: client eventually say they don't want to come back. So 718 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 1: if I was an influencer, like that wouldn't work because 719 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 1: then I would want my followers to want following because 720 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 1: they wouldn't need my information and the waste of as 721 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: postures you're going to have to continue to come back 722 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,520 Speaker 1: because now you are the sproudered person who I have 723 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,400 Speaker 1: the answers to your stuff, And these are the answers. 724 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,359 Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you what they are. Like, I see 725 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,759 Speaker 1: so much of if you've experienced this, that means you 726 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 1: have this and you'r you do this, And I'm like, 727 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,719 Speaker 1: well wait a second, where's the like and you don't 728 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,760 Speaker 1: have to anymore, and where's the like. We're all different. 729 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 1: So maybe I had that experience, but I don't do that. 730 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,399 Speaker 1: But now I'm questioning everything I do. It's like when 731 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,720 Speaker 1: we took when I took the d s M class 732 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:22,279 Speaker 1: in grad school, every day I left class being like, 733 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,799 Speaker 1: well now I have schizophrenia and now I have this, 734 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,800 Speaker 1: and now I have this. I had like seventeen diagnoses, 735 00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: and yeah, maybe I might actually have some of those, 736 00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 1: but I didn't have the maturity of them. Because if 737 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,240 Speaker 1: we'd work hard enough, all of this stuff that's human behavior, 738 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,440 Speaker 1: but it's to what level does this human behavior show up? 739 00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 1: So I'm very glad you said that, and I want 740 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,640 Speaker 1: you guys to hear that over and over again. That 741 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 1: because I think we will say things and will continue 742 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 1: to say things that might not land well with everybody, 743 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 1: and so knowing the intention because I know people say 744 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 1: that impact is more important than intention, but I think 745 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:01,359 Speaker 1: intention is very important. And knowing the intention of what 746 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,040 Speaker 1: we're doing, I think and help people hear what we're 747 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: saying with a better ear. So that does it for today. 748 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,799 Speaker 1: Tera doesn't want you to follow our Instagram. It's not 749 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:18,719 Speaker 1: a professional account. It's personal. But you really appreciate that, 750 00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,240 Speaker 1: so no, thank no, thank you. Um you can follow 751 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,680 Speaker 1: the podcast that at You Need Therapy Podcast. You can 752 00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,359 Speaker 1: follow my Instagram at cat dot de fata. However, it's 753 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,960 Speaker 1: also not a professional account, so if you are my client, 754 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 1: you cannot follow the Instagram and I will remove you 755 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 1: with a loving heart, just to maintain some boundaries. But 756 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 1: if you have any questions. If you have any feedback, 757 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,960 Speaker 1: please email Catherine at You Need Therapy podcast. I love 758 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 1: getting your emails. I got a lot of feedback from 759 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,840 Speaker 1: the episodes we've done so far. I've gotten some suggestions 760 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 1: of things to talk about. So I appreciate that you 761 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 1: guys are taking this in and it's being helpful, and 762 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,680 Speaker 1: that you guys are also curious about more things, because 763 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: we need to be more curious rather than take everything 764 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: at face value because it sounds nice or exciting or 765 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,040 Speaker 1: just bold. So I hope you have the day you 766 00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 1: need to have. I'm going to go do that. Hopefully 767 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,080 Speaker 1: you're going to go do that, and I will talk 768 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,240 Speaker 1: to you guys on Wednesday for couch Books