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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.

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Speaker 2: A major development in the so called Long Island serial

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Speaker 2: killer case. In the last days, yet another woman has

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Speaker 2: been positively identified, a thirty four year old woman. What

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Speaker 2: more do we know and how long till her body

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Speaker 2: will be linked to Rex Huerman, now charged in the

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Speaker 2: murders of three of the so called Gilgo Beach four.

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Speaker 2: But there are many other bodies in this particular case.

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Speaker 2: Karen Vergatta is the most recently named victim. Her legs

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Speaker 2: were found several miles away at Davis Beach. Her skull

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Speaker 2: is found at Gilgo where the other victims have been

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Speaker 2: disposed thrown away like trash on a remote stretch of beach.

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Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 2: being with us here at Fox Nation in series XM

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Speaker 2: one eleven. What do we know? First of all, take

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Speaker 2: a listen to our friends at NBC.

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Speaker 3: Even though Aqued serial killer Rex Heureman sits in jail

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Speaker 3: awaiting trial, there are still many unanswered questions in the

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Speaker 3: Gilgo Beach murders case. At least eleven bodies were discovered

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Speaker 3: on Long Island over a decade ago, and hereman is

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Speaker 3: accused of killing three of the women.

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Speaker 2: Today a breakthrough.

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Speaker 4: We are here to announce that as part of the

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Speaker 4: Gilgo Tesk Force re examination of all the evidence in

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Speaker 4: the case, we are able to identify Fire Island Jane

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Speaker 4: Doe as Karen Vergatta with.

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Speaker 2: Me an all star panel. But first I want to

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Speaker 2: go to a special guest, Joseph jack coloone former NYPD sergeant,

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Speaker 2: cold case investigator and author of the Cold Case Handbook

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Speaker 2: and the Credit Investigation Investigative Function, A Guide from the Investigators.

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Speaker 2: You can find him at Joseph Jackalone dot com. Can

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Speaker 2: we just get real just a moment. We're hearing Rex

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Speaker 2: Huerman is not being linked to this nearly identified skull.

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Speaker 2: But what's the likelihood. What is the likelihood, Joseph, that

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Speaker 2: another killer just happened to hide a skull so close

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Speaker 2: in proximity to the other victims.

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Speaker 5: I don't find that actually practical.

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Speaker 6: From the very beginning, I was a firm believer in

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Speaker 6: one serial killer not to using the same location to

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Speaker 6: dump their bodies.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, they came up with that theory. Where did

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Speaker 2: that come from?

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Speaker 6: Well, the theory, actually I've been floating for a long

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Speaker 6: time now is that the individual who was irresponsible for

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Speaker 6: all these killings changed his mo over the years due

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Speaker 6: to technology, so there was a reason he had at

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Speaker 6: this member bodied In the beginning, he picked up these women,

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Speaker 6: probably eng who were street walkers at the time, and

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Speaker 6: was worried about somebody saw on them and get into

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Speaker 6: his car.

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Speaker 2: Okay, wait, did you say street walker? I haven't heard

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Speaker 2: that since I've read it in a novel in the

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Speaker 2: tenth grade, but I like it. Feel free to continue

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Speaker 2: to say street walker, you mean as they now say

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Speaker 2: sex worker. I don't think we're supposed to say hooker

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Speaker 2: or prostitute anymore. But you know what you say, Tomato,

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Speaker 2: I say, Tomatow. What I don't like about it, Joseph,

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Speaker 2: is that somehow their lives are devalued because they're a hooker.

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Speaker 2: These are also mothers, sisters, daughters. You know, I don't

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Speaker 2: care what my daughter did. I still love her. I

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Speaker 2: may not like what she does, but I love her

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Speaker 2: so much. And for them to just be slated off

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Speaker 2: as they're sex workers, they're a lot more than that.

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Speaker 2: But that said, go ahead, Why you think it's one

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Speaker 2: serial killer that changed em as I'm very interested in this.

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Speaker 5: Well, so you had to pick them up off the street.

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Speaker 6: So the issue that come down to is that he

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Speaker 6: was in need for disposing the bodies by dismembering them

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Speaker 6: because he was worried about it.

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Speaker 5: So even if you look at.

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Speaker 6: The teacher's case, where you know not only was she dismembered,

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Speaker 6: but he was trying to remove a tattoo, he wanted

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Speaker 6: to make everything impossible for the police to identify these

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Speaker 6: women so that he could keep on going doing what

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Speaker 6: he was doing. And then along comes the Internet, and

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Speaker 6: alone comes bernaphones, and he is now able to what

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Speaker 6: he believes to be anonymous where he can pick up

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Speaker 6: women on the Internet without having to worry about anybody

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Speaker 6: tracking him down, and then use a Berna phone to

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Speaker 6: communicate with him. So there was no need for him

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Speaker 6: at that moment to have to dismember them. And that's

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Speaker 6: why we could all have agreed in the very beginning

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Speaker 6: of this case that the kill go for the poor

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Speaker 6: women found in close proximity wrapped in burlap, that they

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Speaker 6: were all killed by the same person.

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Speaker 5: The other cases are going to do.

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Speaker 2: There are a lot more bodies. Joseph, what what was

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Speaker 2: that last time?

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Speaker 7: I said?

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Speaker 6: The rest of the victims are going to be much

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Speaker 6: more difficult to prove because not only are they old,

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Speaker 6: but we don't know if there's any DNA available like

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Speaker 6: we saw with.

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Speaker 2: The Gilgo For interesting, Jenn Smith is joining me, Chief

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Speaker 2: investigative reporter, dailymail dot Com. Hold on, Jen. One quick

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Speaker 2: question to Josh Zeeman, filmmaker and producer. And you may

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Speaker 2: wonder why am I speaking to a filmmaker and producer. Well,

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Speaker 2: he's the director of the Killing season, and I've got

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Speaker 2: to say it's incredible. It's an eight part series on

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Speaker 2: the Gilgo killer, and this existed before Rex Huerman was arrested.

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Speaker 2: Zeeman has been on the case for a long time

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Speaker 2: and tying to victims back in the area from twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 2: Josh and Zeeman, I'm very intrigued by what Joe Jack

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Speaker 2: Cologe just said that based on technology, the Long Island

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Speaker 2: serial killer changed his MO. I agree with that, But

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Speaker 2: I also think that he got away with killing and

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Speaker 2: dismembering and then decided that he didn't really need to

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Speaker 2: dismember anymore. Maybe he got comfortable in his killings. Maybe

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Speaker 2: he thought, wow, nobody's caught me yet, Hey, I'll just

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Speaker 2: keep going. I'm not I don't know if it was

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Speaker 2: just technology or his own psychopathy. What do you think,

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Speaker 2: Josh Zieman, I.

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Speaker 8: Would say probably both. I mean, you know, it's just

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Speaker 8: so interesting. It takes a lot of work to dismember

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Speaker 8: a body, right uh. And we know that women some

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Speaker 8: of those dismembered bodies were found in plastic bags. The

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Speaker 8: question is where did he do that? So I think yes, definitely.

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Speaker 2: Okay, wait wait wait wait wait whit white. I know

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Speaker 2: about the burlap bags. We all know about the burl

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Speaker 2: At bags, and that one of his rex human's hair

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Speaker 2: was allegedly found in one of the burl At bags

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Speaker 2: with the dead body. But what can you tell us

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Speaker 2: about plastic bags.

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Speaker 8: Well, let's look at Karendravada Verdada. She was found or

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Speaker 8: at least her legs tragically were found in a plastic bag.

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Speaker 8: That bag was floating in the water, so you know

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Speaker 8: that's one example. Jessica Taylor, whose torso was found in Manorville,

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Speaker 8: was found on plastic sheeting. There was another victim found

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Speaker 8: in a rubber maid. This is Peaches, who was found

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Speaker 8: in Hempstead Park. Was found in a cooler. So you

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Speaker 8: know he's wrapping the body parts tragically in some kind

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Speaker 8: of something plastic, plastic sheeting. So you know, we have

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Speaker 8: to assume that this is a very complicated process. So

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Speaker 8: if he gets lazy or comfortable or what have you,

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Speaker 8: you could see why he wouldn't. I mean, he's since

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Speaker 8: ninety six he hasn't been caught, so you know, he's

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Speaker 8: got ten.

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Speaker 5: Years of not having been caught.

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Speaker 8: So yeah, maybe that changed part of his m But

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Speaker 8: I also believed Joe is right with regards to the technology.

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Speaker 8: It's so interesting because sex workers were actually one of

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Speaker 8: the first people to go on the Internet and really

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Speaker 8: use it for messaging on message boards, putting ads together.

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Speaker 8: If you go to the history of the Internet, sex

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Speaker 8: workers were an early early adopters.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm thinking about everything you're saying. I could

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Speaker 2: listen to the two of you, Josh Zeeman and Joe

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Speaker 2: Jacqueline all day, but I have an incredible panel joining

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Speaker 2: us to you. Cheryl McCollum, founder and director of the

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Speaker 2: Cold Case Research Institute, star of a new hit podcast,

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Speaker 2: Zone seven. You can find her at Coldcasecrimes dot org. Cheryl,

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Speaker 2: no word can make me happier than plastic. Right now,

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Speaker 2: when you have a plastic sheeting, plastic wrap a plastic

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Speaker 2: bag in water, even a cooler that is very likely

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Speaker 2: made of plastic, of hard plastic. It's such an excellent

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Speaker 2: hondo it for fingerprints, even if it's been in water.

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Speaker 9: Absolutely, a lot of times people think that they're going

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Speaker 9: to wrap something or en case something and that's going

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Speaker 9: to destroy evidence. A lot of times it actually preserves it.

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Speaker 9: And what we're seeing here when you're talking about a

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Speaker 9: skull being found in one place, torsos in another, legs

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Speaker 9: in another, the transport is key to me. This person,

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Speaker 9: this killer had a way to not only dismember, but

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Speaker 9: to individually transport those body parts to different locations. That's

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Speaker 9: critical to understanding who this person is.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I asked you about plassic and you're telling me

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Speaker 2: about transport.

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Speaker 5: Why.

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Speaker 9: But it's critical because that's how he's transporting them. They

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Speaker 9: weren't just put in there and put on the outside.

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Speaker 9: They transported them this way. And that's what I'm saying

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Speaker 9: is critical. Hair, fingerprints, other biological material owned the victim

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Speaker 9: would be key.

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Speaker 2: Him Gallagher joining me medical examiner out of Florida, lecturer

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Speaker 2: University of Florida Medical School and founder of the International

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Speaker 2: Forensic Medicine Death Investigation Conference and you can find them

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Speaker 2: at Pathcare at med dot com. Doctor Gallagher, thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for being with us. I've got so many

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Speaker 2: things to talk to you about because Karen Vergata's skull

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Speaker 2: is found at Gilgo, her legs are found at Davis Beach.

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Speaker 2: But what I want to ask you right now is

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Speaker 2: we've all heard the phrase oil and water. They go

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Speaker 2: together or they don't mix like oil and water. The

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Speaker 2: reason that fingerprints on for instance, plastic, which is such

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Speaker 2: a great medium, a great conduit for evidence, is because

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Speaker 2: of the oil in the human body. When you touch something,

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Speaker 2: it's the oil markings that show the swirls on your fingertips.

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Speaker 2: That's how it works. And on plastic, even if it's

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Speaker 2: been submerged in water, that oil may very well still exist.

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Speaker 10: Well that's shoe, Nancy. The body, especially the skin, produces

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Speaker 10: a large amount of oil for the lubrication and the

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Speaker 10: suppleness of the skin to keep it that way. But

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Speaker 10: that oil is excreted through every pore on the body,

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Speaker 10: and if that finger comes in contact with any surface,

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Speaker 10: especially a plastic surface, a smooth surface.

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Speaker 5: That oil will be deposited.

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Speaker 10: That print will be very readily available for identification using

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Speaker 10: the proper techniques. So plastic is always a good thing

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Speaker 10: to find at the scene, especially when you're trying to

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Speaker 10: identify somebody or a suspect.

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Speaker 1: List time stories with me. It's a grace.

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Speaker 2: Straight out to Jen Smith, Chief investigative reporter dailymail dot com. Jan,

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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. What happened?

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Speaker 11: Well, I mean, we're just moving through this investigation bit

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Speaker 11: by bit. This most recent discovery of Karen Bergasa being

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Speaker 11: the woman whose body was found. You know, this takes

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Speaker 11: it all the way back, this investigation to nineteen ninety six.

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Speaker 11: That really changes the game in terms of Rex human

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Speaker 11: in the case against him. We have to think about

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Speaker 11: where he was in nineteen ninety six, what did his

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Speaker 11: life look like? Could he be responsible for all of

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Speaker 11: these deaths? And we do know that he was living

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Speaker 11: in Massapeople Park back then. So this most recent development,

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Speaker 11: positively iding this Jane Doe, who's the poor woman who

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Speaker 11: was dismembered all the way back in the nineties, really

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Speaker 11: broadened the scope here.

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Speaker 2: Guys, I want you to take a listen to this.

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Speaker 3: In twenty ten, police discovered four bodies on Gilgo Beach.

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Speaker 3: Rex Kuerman is accused of killing three of them. Police

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Speaker 3: believed at the time they had a serial killer. In

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Speaker 3: the search for more victims. They found Vergata's skull just

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Speaker 3: over five months later, but no id was made until

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Speaker 3: Suffolk County officials assembled.

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Speaker 1: A task force.

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Speaker 3: The DA says that no one reported her missing. Her

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Speaker 3: family may not have been looking for The FBI relied

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Speaker 3: on that large DNA database that now exists.

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Speaker 2: To identify her.

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Speaker 12: Youerman has not been charged in Karen Forgotta's murder. Here's

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Speaker 12: the road that led to her identification. In August twenty

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Speaker 12: twenty two, a DNA profile was developed for genealogy testing.

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Speaker 12: In September twenty twenty two, the FBI loaded the profile

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Speaker 12: into a genetic genealogy database. In October, a Vergata relative

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Speaker 12: was identified and asked for a DNA swab.

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Speaker 2: You're hearing our friends at NBC and pix eleven, So

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Speaker 2: that is how she, Karen Ergotta was identified and given

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Speaker 2: a name. So many yars later. Remember she goes missing

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Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety six. She lived in Manhattan on forty

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Speaker 2: fifth Street. She goes, she goes missing on Valentine's Day

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Speaker 2: ninety six. What happened? She was not reported, missing her

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Speaker 2: name not heard until now. Another curious angle before I

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Speaker 2: get into the complexities of the DNA to doctor Angela Arnold,

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Speaker 2: renowned psychiatrist joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at

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Speaker 2: angela Arnold MD dot com. Doctor Angie, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: give you an anecdotal scenario and then you can explain.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure in many cases, and I didn't understand it

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Speaker 2: until I was on I don't know my seventh eighth,

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Speaker 2: ninth murder prosecution. I noticed that very often victims would

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Speaker 2: be covered up, that'd be wrapped in something that have

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Speaker 2: a blanket over their face, sometimes something as rudimentary as

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Speaker 2: putting leaves or limbs over the face, specifically, sometimes the

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Speaker 2: whole body. If a shallow grave wasn't created and used

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Speaker 2: as a disposal, the victim would be just somehow covered

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Speaker 2: in some way. Not always, but very often. I've even

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Speaker 2: covered a case where a woman is found dead in

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Speaker 2: her home, in her bed and a wicker trash can

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Speaker 2: had been put over her head. What does that mean?

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Speaker 2: Because here many of the victims are wrapped in plastic,

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Speaker 2: one is in a cooler. What does that mean psychologically?

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Speaker 13: I think it signifies a couple of different things, Nancy.

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Speaker 13: One of the things that it could unconsciously signify for

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Speaker 13: the murderer is a finishing, a completion of what he

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Speaker 13: has done, and a burial, which is a completion of

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Speaker 13: the act of murder. Okay, So, and it's unconscious. They

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Speaker 13: do this unconsciously to finish what they have started. The

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Speaker 13: covering of the faith is to make the person who

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Speaker 13: has been murdered seem less human to the murderer.

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Speaker 5: Okay.

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Speaker 13: So it's it's kind of a two pronged thing, but

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Speaker 13: it's but I know it sounds weird to people because

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Speaker 13: somebody would dismember and murder these people horribly, but then

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Speaker 13: unconsciously they want to bury them to finish it. It's

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Speaker 13: to me, it's very much like keeping a souvenir afterwards.

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Speaker 13: So they bury the body, they complete what they have done,

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Speaker 13: so in their mind it's finished. Okay. And of course,

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Speaker 13: like I said, the covering of the safe is to

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Speaker 13: make them less human to the serial killer.

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Speaker 2: Make them less human. Hold on, I need to write

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Speaker 2: that down. Make victim less than human, okay with me.

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Speaker 2: A veteran trial lawyer, BERNARDA. Via Lona, worked in homicide

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Speaker 2: Bureau with a prosecutor on the guild go okase. Now

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Speaker 2: that's interesting enough right there. But this woman knows her

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Speaker 2: way around a courtroom. And you know, you don't hear Jackie.

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Speaker 2: If you notice, lawyers don't really compliment each other very much.

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Speaker 2: So when you hear one lawyer say about another one

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Speaker 2: that's a fine lawyer or that's a veteran trial lawyer,

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Speaker 2: that is a huge compliment. She's a New York criminal

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Speaker 2: defense attorney. Now sadly you can find her at Vilona

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Speaker 2: Law dot com. BERNARDA. You know, I'm listening to what

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Speaker 2: doctor Angie Arnold is saying from her point of view

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Speaker 2: as a psychiatrist, and I'm not finding fault with anything

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Speaker 2: she said. But there's something else, and I don't quite

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Speaker 2: know how to describe it. I've experienced it, and I've

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Speaker 2: seen literally thousands of other people experience it as well.

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Speaker 2: When you as you had to do as did I,

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Speaker 2: or presenting case to a jury or investigating homicide, you

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Speaker 2: go to the crime scene, you see the dead body.

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Speaker 2: You go to the autopsy, maybe you see the dead body.

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Speaker 2: But I've noticed that when jurors see the crime scene photo,

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Speaker 2: they see the dead body very often, it's very visible.

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Speaker 2: They WinCE, they close their eyes, they look away. I

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Speaker 2: think the killer, even though they're the one responsible, they

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Speaker 2: did it. I think it's hard for them to look

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Speaker 2: at the dead body, much less if the victim's eyes

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Speaker 2: are open, looking right back at them. But there's something

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Speaker 2: about looking at a dead body. Nobody wants to do it,

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Speaker 2: except maybe you Gallagher. But that's a whole other can

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Speaker 2: of worms. I think, what do you think about that,

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Speaker 2: BERNARDA As a reason for covering the body and wrapping

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Speaker 2: them in plastic, and the links that killers go to

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Speaker 2: to hide the body, to cover it up.

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Speaker 14: Thank you for having me, Nancy, and thank you for

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Speaker 14: your kind words. So you got to think, Nancy. As

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Speaker 14: prosecutors and even as a trial attorneys, when you're putting

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Speaker 14: in these crime scene photos, these autopsy photos, you're trying

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Speaker 14: to bring the jury back to the scene. You want

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Speaker 14: to make them feel as if they were present, as

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Speaker 14: if they were eyewitnesses to the homicide itself. So it's

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Speaker 14: hard for the jury to see that, but you want

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Speaker 14: to relay that opportunity and relaye those feelings to a jury.

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Speaker 14: In terms of the killer and actual killer looking away,

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Speaker 14: I think it's probably I think it's something of I

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Speaker 14: don't think it's regrets, because they come back and do

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Speaker 14: it again anyway, Just how Rex Human came back and

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Speaker 14: did it again and again and again. Is it something

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Speaker 14: that maybe at that point it feels some.

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Speaker 5: Kind of remorse, I don't know.

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Speaker 14: Is it a reflection?

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Speaker 2: Wow, he's not remorse, because if he felt remorse, he

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Speaker 2: wouldn't keep doing it exactly. But I do know there's

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Speaker 2: something instinctual, instinctive about recoiling from a dead body. Okay,

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Speaker 2: you know, Josh Zemon, there's only one thing I don't

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Speaker 2: like about you. You don't jump in enough. How many

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Speaker 2: times have I told you guys that this is not

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Speaker 2: high to you windsor Castle and jackalone. You're always so outspoken.

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Speaker 2: I don't get it, Josh Zemon. There's so much happening

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Speaker 2: right now, but I think one thing I would be

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Speaker 2: looking at and I want to hear from you, how

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Speaker 2: you think this fits in. I believe that I still

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Speaker 2: haven't even gotten to the DNA that now the prosecutors

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Speaker 2: have gone back direct Human and asked for another bugle

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Speaker 2: or buckle squab swab taken out of the mouth. Josh,

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Speaker 2: don't you believe that right now. Investigators are investigating now

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Speaker 2: Forgotta advertised. However she advertised, It's not like they went

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Speaker 2: to elementary school together with Heureman. How did she advertise?

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Speaker 2: Can it be reconstruction, reverse engineered and find whether Hureman

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Speaker 2: contacted her? I don't know if those records can be found.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what existed in ninety six, certainly not.

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Speaker 2: You know the websites, the escort sites that exist today.

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Speaker 2: But how do you think they're going back to nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety six and putting this back together again? I mean,

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Speaker 2: the obvious choice, Joss is find DNA on this woman

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Speaker 2: that links her to Hureman. But what if they can't.

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Speaker 8: That's a tough one. Nineteen ninety six so many years ago,

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Speaker 8: twenty six years ago. And by the way, Hureman would

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Speaker 8: have been thirty two at the time, which is pretty

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Speaker 8: right on the money.

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Speaker 2: But by the way, hey, hey, hey, hey, not everybody

359
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Speaker 2: speaks serial killer, So what do you mean by that?

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Speaker 2: Thirty two?

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Speaker 8: Right on the thirty two average male age of a

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Speaker 8: serial tillers starting first kill is twenty eight and a half,

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Speaker 8: so thirty two is pretty close to that. You know,

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Speaker 8: we have to assume that he didn't. When we're talking

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Speaker 8: about the Gilgo Beach four, it didn't start killing in

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Speaker 8: his forties, So you know, ninety six kind of makes

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Speaker 8: perfect sense. Going back to one of your earlier questions.

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Speaker 8: You know, look, he's believing torsos in places where they.

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Speaker 5: Can be found.

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Speaker 8: He's doing that with Jessica Taylor, He's doing that with peaches.

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Speaker 8: So I think in this case we might not be

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Speaker 8: dealing with covering as a way to kind of dehumanize

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Speaker 8: the victim. But I think we also might be dealing

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Speaker 8: with a way that he's pulling law enforcement away from

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Speaker 8: his quote unquote and I hate to use this term,

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Speaker 8: but I know nothing better. Trophy garden in Gilgo Beach.

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh, trophy garden. You're referring to all of the

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Speaker 2: remains as the trophy garden. Yes, wow, So you're thinking

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Speaker 2: that when he rides by Gilgo that's when he looks

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Speaker 2: at the trophies on a shelf.

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Speaker 8: Absolutely. I mean he went there as a child. We

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Speaker 8: know he went there and went duck hunting with his father.

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Speaker 8: He continues to duck hunt. You know, this is a

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Speaker 8: special place for him.

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Speaker 2: Okay, everybody being unnotice I'm stealing that from Zeeman. I'll

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Speaker 2: probably spout it off everywhere. Gosh, his trophy garden, I

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Speaker 2: was thinking, Josh and all of you serial killer experts

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Speaker 2: jump in. When I think of a trophy, I think

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Speaker 2: is of a piece of jewelry, a pair of underwear,

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Speaker 2: an item, a driver's license, something that belonged to the victim,

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Speaker 2: a hair ribbon, a brett, a ring. I didn't think

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Speaker 2: of his trophy garden being Gilgo Beach itself. That literally

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Speaker 2: put chill down my spine. Okay, I can't believe it's

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Speaker 2: taken how many minutes for Cheryl McCollum to interrupt I mean, Cheryl,

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Speaker 2: please come on. I know the man is in an

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Speaker 2: eight part documentary, but go ahead and interrupt him.

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Speaker 9: What No, I want to tag team with him. So

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Speaker 9: I have a theory of why the victims are facing north.

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Speaker 9: When you're an architect, just like a crime tinge investigator,

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Speaker 9: your drafts, your first drawings are north centered. So that's

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Speaker 9: how he would think of this. If he's doing a

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Speaker 9: project drawing versus a drafting, then what he's doing if

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Speaker 9: he's placing these victims as you all are saying in

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Speaker 9: this garden to me, those are like buildings. He has

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Speaker 9: set them up like a city scape. That's why they're

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Speaker 9: all in a line down the road.

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Speaker 2: It's so smart. Keep talking, but keep talking like a

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Speaker 2: city scape.

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Speaker 14: Exactly.

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Speaker 9: So you think of victim one, two, three, four.

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Speaker 13: They're all in a line.

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Speaker 9: They're all together down this road where he has placed them.

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Speaker 2: Again, do nore wow, Zaemon, what about it?

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Speaker 5: You know?

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Speaker 8: To me, it's all about hunting. You know, he was

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Speaker 8: a hunter. He had two hundred and ninety what six guns?

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Speaker 8: He was an instructor. Jilgo Beach is a hunting area.

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Speaker 8: Manorville if we assume that he also is the Manorville butcher.

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Speaker 8: If you go and look at Manorville, it's surrounded by

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Speaker 8: hunting clubs. You know, to me, these are trophies like

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Speaker 8: tragically again on a wall, or the fact that the

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Speaker 8: four women were laid out dolls on a shelf.

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh, you know, doctor Angie Arnold. When I'm listening

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Speaker 2: to everybody on this panel, BERNARDA, You, Cheryl, Joe, Josh,

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Speaker 2: doctor Gallagher, Jen Smith, it almost sounds like a murder

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Speaker 2: mystery where the killers are absolutely diabolical. But when Cheryl

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Speaker 2: described this as setting their bodies out like a cityscape

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Speaker 2: along a street, and Zeeman Josh Deemon said, like dolls

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Speaker 2: on the shelf. It's hard to believe this is real.

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Speaker 2: This is really happening.

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Speaker 6: Something to the I believe the only jewelry that was

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Speaker 6: found was on the toddler. So none of the other victims,

433
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 6: recall correctly and jod justkin correctly on this had jewelry

434
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 6: on them. So we don't know if if he kept

435
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 6: anything from any of those victims too.

436
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 2: That's Joe jackalone jumping in. Okay, go ahead, Nancy.

437
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 13: What I was going to say is I am just

438
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 13: intensely interested in studying this man and imaging his head.

439
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 2: Here, Lord, you know what, save your studies for later.

440
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 2: Right now, I'm trying to solve a serial killing. I

441
00:26:55,720 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 2: think that because so much time has passed since Karen

442
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 2: Vigatta was murdered back in ninety six, we're gonna have

443
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 2: a very very hard time connecting her time stories with

444
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: Nancy Greece. Jen Smith is joining me, the chief investigative

445
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 2: reporter for deallymail dot com. The other three, uh, the

446
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 2: three of the four Gilgo Beach four. Theirmos are so

447
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: incredibly similar. They're in burle at bags. The defendant's wife's

448
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 2: hair has been transferred to them. One of his hairs

449
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 2: is in the bottom of one of the burlap bags.

450
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 2: I mean, they're very obviously all the same. The MOO changes.

451
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: In those cases we have DNA. We also have burner

452
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: phones and connections to the victims that can be proven

453
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 2: extrinsically outside of DNA or like thereof. In this case,

454
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 2: there's not that kind of technology, Jen Smith, there's.

455
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 11: Not, Nancy. But just going back to the similarities between

456
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 11: the Gilgo Beach four and then the previous victims, beginning

457
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 11: with Karen Bergatha. There is one other victim who we

458
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 11: briefly mentioned, Peaches, the toddler. Peach's mother. We don't know

459
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 11: her name. She is still a Jane Joe. Tragically, after

460
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 11: all these years, the first portion of her remains were

461
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 11: actually found in nineteen ninety seven. That's only a year

462
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 11: after Karen Bergasa. So sure the timeline is a little

463
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 11: bit more stretched out. And then we have you know,

464
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 11: Valerie mac Jessica Taylor, and Shannon Gilbert that those come later,

465
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 11: but we do have a kind of linear chronology here.

466
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 11: We have nineteen ninety six, nineteen ninety seven, two thousand

467
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 11: and three, two thousand and seven, eight nine, and so forth.

468
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 11: I mean, it's going to be harder sure to tie

469
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 11: rec Hureman too these earlier victims, but it is not

470
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 11: so far apart that you can't deduce a pattern.

471
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 2: I want to talk about Peaches. She had a very

472
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 2: distinctive feature, a tattoo on her chest of a heart

473
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 2: shaped bitten peach, hence the name Peaches, and she has

474
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 2: remained a Jane Doe. I've seen the photo of the

475
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: tattoo over and over and over, and the question who

476
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 2: is the girl with a peach tattoo? Now, tattoos are

477
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 2: very often easily tracked. Who gave her the tattoo and

478
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 2: who can help identify her? Right now, I think our

479
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 2: best chance of connecting Humorman to Karen Regatta is going

480
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: to be DNA, since we're not going to have social

481
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: media connections again. She was identified by a you know,

482
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: Jenn Smith. I'll let you explain how she was identified

483
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 2: with DNA through an ancestral family tree, and then investigators

484
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 2: got a current day living relative to give a swab

485
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 2: and they could identify who she was based on time

486
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: of disappearance and location. You explain.

487
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 11: Yeah, it's a strategy that we've seen multiple times. It

488
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 11: was actually how they were able to treat Brian Colberger

489
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 11: in the Idaho killings. They built a genetic called a

490
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 11: genetic profile, and they worked their way backwards with a

491
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 11: very long process. They work their way backwards from anyone

492
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 11: who could have supplied DNA to publicly accessible database one

493
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 11: of the ancestry dot com twenty three kneed jetmatch type databases.

494
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 11: This will produce hundreds, if not thousands of potential matches

495
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 11: people you might share a tiny part of DNA with,

496
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 11: and then investigators start the kind of old fashioned quote

497
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 11: unquote policework of looking at among all those people who

498
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 11: could have been living in the right place at the

499
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 11: right time, and so forth. With Karen Vergatta, this is

500
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 11: really interesting because in terms of finding a living relative

501
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 11: for her, we know that she had two sons. When

502
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 11: she died, she had a hard life. Like many of

503
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 11: these other victims, she'd actually put the boys up. They

504
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 11: had been adopted by someone else. So she did have

505
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 11: genetic relatives, but none that were you know, frantically immediately

506
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 11: looking for her at the time, and they actually found

507
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 11: her name. They identified her last year. It was Algus

508
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 11: twenty twenty two, and only know has this become public

509
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 11: fifth week falling the arrest of Rex Heureman, but they

510
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 11: held her identity back publicly for a year.

511
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 5: I think they know who they are. I think they

512
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 5: know who she isw and the reason why it was.

513
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 9: I think they know the identity of teaching teachers.

514
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and oh yeah, I think they did.

515
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 5: Take sure.

516
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 2: Guys, I want you to take a listen to our friend,

517
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 2: Stephanie Gosket NBC.

518
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 3: Karen Vergotto was thirty four years old, living in Manhattan

519
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 3: and working as an escort for Remains were discovered in

520
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety six on Fire Island off the coast of

521
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 3: Long Island. Police couldn't identify her. Nearly fifteen years later,

522
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 3: Vergatta's skull was found here in a wildlife sanctuary, miles

523
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 3: from the other remains. The DA did not link for

524
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 3: Gotta's death to Rex Heureman. He also didn't say how

525
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 3: her skull wound up here in these bushes, so far

526
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 3: away from the rest of her body. What we do

527
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 3: know is that where I'm standing is about four miles

528
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 3: from Gilgo Beach and more.

529
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: Take a listen to our friends at Inside Edition.

530
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 15: Karen Vergotta disappeared on Valentine's Day, nineteen ninety six. She

531
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 15: is one of nine women whose remains were found on

532
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 15: an isolated stretch of beach on Long Island, New York

533
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 15: beginning in twenty ten. Architect Rex Huerman has been charged

534
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 15: with murdering three of the women. Authorities would not comment

535
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 15: if he's a possible suspect in Virgotta's disappearance, but their

536
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 15: paths could have crossed. Virgotta lived on this block in

537
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 15: Midtown Manhattan. It's just nine blocks from where Rex Ywerman worked.

538
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, Please, how many times have I said there

539
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 2: is no coincidence in criminal law, all the time period.

540
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 2: His office, which is apparently the hub of his prostitution

541
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: activity and contacts, is nine blocks for where Karen Ragotta lived.

542
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 9: There are no coinstances here in this case at all. Nancy,

543
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 9: not his phone called, not his internet searches, not where

544
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 9: the victims were recovered from, not where they would last

545
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 9: seen from. All of these things are going to be connected.

546
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 9: And I just want to point out to everybody, we

547
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 9: worked cases like Ted Bundy and Wayne Williams without the

548
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 9: benefit of DNA. Just because we don't have DNA from

549
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 9: him on a case does not mean they're not going

550
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 9: to be able to.

551
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 13: Link him to victims.

552
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 9: When you have MS, when you have geography, when you

553
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,720
Speaker 9: have victims facing north, when you have all the victims

554
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 9: being sex workers, all the victims nude except for the

555
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 9: Asian male, all of those things are going to give

556
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 9: you a totality of what was happening and who was

557
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 9: doing it.

558
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 2: Also, guys, we are learning that the district attorney has

559
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 2: asked specifically for more DNA. The DA is going to watch,

560
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 2: hopefully to video and photograph Huerman's DNA being extracted. When

561
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 2: I say extracted sounds I don't know, difficult. It's not.

562
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 2: It's a buckle or buckle squab, which is like a

563
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: really long Q tip being brushed along the inside of

564
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 2: your mouth. That's all it is. I've done it myself.

565
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:14,280
Speaker 2: I have watched DNA being extracted from a murder defendant

566
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 2: when the first sample was not protected by chain of custody.

567
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 2: It matched him, but I knew I couldn't get it

568
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 2: into evidence no chain of custody, so I had to

569
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 2: have it done again, and I watched it myself and

570
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: made my investigator, Ernest, watch it as well, so I

571
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 2: would have a witness. Ernest then took it himself to

572
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 2: the crime lab and handed it directly to the scientist.

573
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 2: And that is what we're gonna have right now. Guys,

574
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 2: take a listen to our cut one six four.

575
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 16: Well, that's a standard, that's a standard practice in cases.

576
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 16: So it's been reported that we got what is known

577
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 16: as abandonment samples. So typically after you make an arrest

578
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 16: on a case and you have the you have the

579
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 16: defendant in custody, you take swabs just to confirm that

580
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 16: the abandonment sample DNA profiles are accurate.

581
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 2: That is the Suffolk County District Attorney speaking right Tieranny

582
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,720
Speaker 2: to News Day. I want to talk about that DNA

583
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 2: sample straight out.

584
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 14: To and Nancy, this is Bananda.

585
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 7: Yes, it's just quite common Nancy, Yeah, definitely, this is

586
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 7: quite common in all the cases when our prosecuted cases

587
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 7: in Brooklyn and a homicide cases and even in other

588
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 7: regular cases where there was DNA there was a DNA

589
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 7: sample that was left where that needs to be tested,

590
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 7: you will get a direct DNA extraction from the defendant

591
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 7: because it makes it number one easier to explain to

592
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 7: the jury, like, look, we compared and develop a DNA

593
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 7: profile directly from the mouth of the defendant as opposed

594
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 7: to from a pizza crust. So that way it can

595
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 7: be easier to explain to the jury, and you have

596
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 7: a direct hit from the defendant himself. So what the

597
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 7: prosecution did in this case is that they fouled emotion

598
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 7: to compel the taking of of a DNA sample from

599
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 7: Rex Hueman. You're going to be up to the defense

600
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 7: whether he's going to contest that, but in a case

601
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 7: like this, a judge is going to grant that compelling

602
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 7: of the taking of the DNA. What's not common is

603
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 7: the video taping here in New York of the DNA

604
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 7: sample being taken from the subject itself. But that is

605
00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 7: a great idea, especially since you want to show to

606
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 7: the jury to try to get a conviction that rex

607
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 7: human DNA is a direct match to what they found

608
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 7: at the scene.

609
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 2: Wow, that was a mouthful and I agree with every

610
00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,800
Speaker 2: single word that BERNARDA. V Alona just said. Cheryl McCollum,

611
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 2: the prosecutor doesn't want to stand for the jury and says,

612
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 2: here's the pizza crust that we took out of the

613
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 2: trash purportedly bearing DNA of Rex Huerman. We think this

614
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: is the crust that he just bit. Noo oh, you

615
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 2: don't want to do that. See, just like Coburger, I

616
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 2: think Bernardo said that in Coburger, Brian Coburger, who is

617
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 2: now charged with four murders in the Idaho University slaves.

618
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 2: They saw the dad throughout trash. They get into the

619
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 2: trash at the dad's home of the Poconos and they

620
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 2: match it to the knife she found at the scene

621
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 2: of the crimes, and the DNA says that the only

622
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 2: person that could have left that DNA at the crime

623
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:36,399
Speaker 2: scene would be the biological son of the donor, who

624
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 2: was Coburger's father. He only had one son, Brian Coburger.

625
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 2: They then go based on that and they get a warrant,

626
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 2: a search warrant based on probable cause to do a

627
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,919
Speaker 2: buckle swab to get that one and five octillion, five

628
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,320
Speaker 2: point three octilian match. That is exactly what's happening here.

629
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 2: You don't want to stand in front of a jury

630
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 2: and go, hey, here's the pizza I found spit on it,

631
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 2: and we're pretty sure it's Rex. He rooms spit. Uh uh.

632
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 9: That's right, because the first thing the defense attorney's gonna

633
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 9: say is, you didn't see him eating that pizza. The

634
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 9: pizza delivery man could have sneezed on that crust. You

635
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 9: don't know. You could still have a killer out there.

636
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 9: So it's really important that they get the new DNA

637
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 9: and then cross check it with what they have to

638
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 9: show that it absolutely is him. And I'll pay something, Nancy.

639
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:29,879
Speaker 14: When I do this as a.

640
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 9: Working crime scene investigator, I always have a detective or

641
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 9: an officer with me and I get them to turn

642
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 9: on body camp. There's gonna be no question who I

643
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 9: took the swab from or how he was treated during it.

644
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: That is so well put. Right now, guys, we are

645
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:51,440
Speaker 2: waiting on the latest. As many of us have deduced Peaches.

646
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 2: Another Jane Doe with a peach tattoo, we believe has

647
00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 2: been identified. Why would a skull turn up on Gilgo

648
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 2: Beach where the other victims are if not the handiwork

649
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:12,479
Speaker 2: of Rex Hureman. We wait as just as unfolds. Goodbye friend,