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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori

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Speaker 1: with you. Lisa Smart Back with us, author of Words

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Speaker 1: at the Threshold, a linguist, educator, poet. She founded the

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Speaker 1: Final Words Project, which is an ongoing study devoted to

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Speaker 1: collecting and interpreting the mysterious language at the end of lives.

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Speaker 1: She co facilitates workshops about language and consciousness with Raymond

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Speaker 1: Moody at universities, hospices, and conferences, and lives in the

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Speaker 1: San Francisco Bay area. Lisa, welcome back to the program. Hey,

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Speaker 1: it's great to be back. Thank you. George. By the way,

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Speaker 1: we think the world of Raymond Moody, he is one

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Speaker 1: heck of a guy. Oh. I have been so fortunate.

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Speaker 1: I've been working with him now since at the end

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Speaker 1: of twenty twelve, and it's just been such a great

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Speaker 1: joy to get to know him, and I never I

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Speaker 1: keep learning new things from him. He's just an endless

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Speaker 1: stunt of knowledge. It's incredible when you talk about the

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Speaker 1: Final Words Project, two things come to mind. Stephen Jobs,

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Speaker 1: when he died, the founder of Apple Computer said, oh wow,

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Speaker 1: oh wow, oh wow. And then Frank Sinatra, when he

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Speaker 1: was dying, said I'm losing. Is that what you mean

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Speaker 1: by final words? That's part of what I mean. I

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Speaker 1: mean the two examples you gave there were just at

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Speaker 1: the moment, right before the two men passed on. But

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Speaker 1: the research that we did for in some cases go

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Speaker 1: back several weeks before people die, because we start seeing

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Speaker 1: changes in language, sometimes weeks before people pass on. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: people show they kind of like show their cards that

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Speaker 1: they may be dying even though they don't look sick.

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Speaker 1: Why is that? How does that happen? You know? I

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Speaker 1: think in some I mean, there are two answers to that, right,

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Speaker 1: But it's this has become very clear to me as

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Speaker 1: I've done this research that we seem to we seem

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Speaker 1: to know even before we may fall ill. People often

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Speaker 1: indicate that they have a sense they're passing on. For example,

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Speaker 1: one really tragic case, there was a teenager and Um,

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Speaker 1: she was on her way to go see her boyfriend

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Speaker 1: and on the refrigerator, you know those plastic letters that

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Speaker 1: people use when a refrigerator magnets, magnets, thank you and

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Speaker 1: m she wrote, right before she left the house, Um,

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Speaker 1: come spend infinite time away and then you know, she

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Speaker 1: just left the house her mom didn't, you know, no

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Speaker 1: one thought anything of it, and she got in the

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Speaker 1: car and hours later she was killed in a tragic

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Speaker 1: car act. Oh my gosh. So you know, and her

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Speaker 1: story is particularly dramatic, but we hear this all the time. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, hours before people die and sometimes months before.

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Speaker 1: With my father, who inspired this whole research project, Um,

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Speaker 1: he was six months before he passed off. He was

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Speaker 1: on vacation with my mom and a friend of his.

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Speaker 1: They were a friend of his said, Morty, write something.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to take a photo and write something on

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Speaker 1: your hand about yourself, and in big letters, with the

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Speaker 1: marker that she handed to him, he wrote visitor. And

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Speaker 1: she said, what's that about. He said, oh, I'm just

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Speaker 1: visiting the planet. And he started to laugh. And then

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Speaker 1: and at that time he had no indication of being,

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Speaker 1: you know, particularly ill, that anything was going to happen,

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Speaker 1: and as if it were a premonition. Six months later

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Speaker 1: he died of a serious infection. So it does seem

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Speaker 1: that people know. And one another quick story about my father,

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Speaker 1: that was a premonition, if you want to say that.

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Speaker 1: Three days before he died. And you have to understand

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Speaker 1: my father was a total skeptic, okay, PhD, very rational

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Speaker 1: and three days not a god believer, I bet, oh gosh,

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Speaker 1: not at all he was. He would roll his eyes

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Speaker 1: if you used that word right, I mean no. And

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Speaker 1: three days before he died, he said the angels, the

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Speaker 1: angels say enough enough, three days left, and indeed three

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Speaker 1: days later he passed. On gosh. I have witnessed things

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Speaker 1: with people where I'll tell them, are you okay? You

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Speaker 1: know you don't look right? You don't you're not acting right,

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Speaker 1: And I would think to myself, the dying process has

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Speaker 1: begun for this person, and Lisa, two weeks later, they're dead.

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Speaker 1: Do you mind if I ask what is it? Can

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Speaker 1: you put your finger on what you see or set? No,

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Speaker 1: it's just a feeling, it's it's it's just a feeling,

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Speaker 1: you know, just body language by the individual that you

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Speaker 1: look at. But you know, my receptors kick in. It

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Speaker 1: happened with a dear friend of mine the end of December.

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Speaker 1: I was with him and I told him, I said,

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Speaker 1: you're not well and he said, I'm fine. What are

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Speaker 1: you talking about? And I said, no, there's there's something

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Speaker 1: wrong with you. I mean, look look how your left

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Speaker 1: hand is shaking. And then he'd hold it, he'd hold

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Speaker 1: it down so it wouldn't shake. And I and I said,

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Speaker 1: you know, I just feel you need to take care

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Speaker 1: of yourself. The dyeing process has begun for you. And

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Speaker 1: I didn't say it to be mean or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I truly meant it. And two weeks later

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Speaker 1: he was dead. That's tomorrow. First of all, I'm sorry

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Speaker 1: about losing a friend. And it's incredible that you have

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Speaker 1: that kind of sensitivity. And yet I think there are

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Speaker 1: signs that we give off. And definitely we each seem

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Speaker 1: to know. It's so common. How many times have you

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Speaker 1: heard that someone just suddenly starts wrapping up their financial

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Speaker 1: affairs and or calls people that they hadn't spoken to

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Speaker 1: for years. You know, hear these stories over and over again. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's rare, though, I haven't heard many people have that

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Speaker 1: kind of attunement that you do. That's that's a way.

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Speaker 1: That's a remarkable gift. It's so so a little haunting.

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Speaker 1: It is haunting. I'm not sure I want a gift. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know it's there. Yeah, Well, now what exactly is

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Speaker 1: the Final Words Project. The Final Words Project, I established

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Speaker 1: it in twenty fourteen with the guidance of Raymond Moody

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Speaker 1: and UM. And what we have done is just collected

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Speaker 1: final words and then analyze them for patterns. And so

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Speaker 1: I've collected data online or I've had loved ones transcribed

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Speaker 1: what they've heard their dying family members and friends say

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Speaker 1: in the last days or weeks. And we've collected now

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Speaker 1: two thousand utterances and our dances. Something of this is

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Speaker 1: like a phrase, UM And we've begun to analyze the

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Speaker 1: patterns to see what emerges. What do we find about

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Speaker 1: people's final words? And sometimes it may seem like nonsense

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Speaker 1: some of the things we hear on the surface, but

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Speaker 1: what we've come to find out that they may really

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Speaker 1: not be nonsense at all in many Now the two

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Speaker 1: examples I used, would they be included in your research? Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: yeah they would, Yeah they would, yeah, yeah. But I

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Speaker 1: know most of the research that we're looking at are

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Speaker 1: from ordinary people. You know, when you think about final words,

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Speaker 1: they have those books, you know, famous last words you know,

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Speaker 1: and the world the ones that everybody hears as such

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Speaker 1: as jobs. Now as you know, it has become so common.

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Speaker 1: But we looked at just everyday folks, and what are

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Speaker 1: people saying in those last days and hours? And I

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Speaker 1: was very surprised. And at first I was surprised by

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Speaker 1: my father. I mean, that's how I began this whole project.

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Speaker 1: I was trained as a linguist, and I started hearing

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Speaker 1: things from my father that surprised me, and I started

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Speaker 1: writing everything down, and that's that's how this began. Did

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Speaker 1: you think he might be hallucinating? Absolutely? I did, and

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Speaker 1: I was baffled by it because what I saw with him,

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Speaker 1: which now I've learned is not that uncommon, is that

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Speaker 1: there would be these moments of what would seem like hallucination.

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Speaker 1: You know, he was not a lot of medication, but

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Speaker 1: morphine as is common, and so he would he would

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Speaker 1: say things I talk about angels would seem like hallucinations.

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Speaker 1: But then fifteen or twenty minutes or even ten minutes later,

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Speaker 1: turned to me and say, oh, honey, could you get

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Speaker 1: me a glass of water? And it was almost as

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Speaker 1: if he was moving between worlds. And when you start

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Speaker 1: writing things things down, and I invited other people to

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Speaker 1: do the same, When you start writing people's words, you

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Speaker 1: see that it's not as chaotic and hallucinatory as it

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Speaker 1: may seem. They're actually in the difference between someone who

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Speaker 1: has a pure hallucination is that they don't seem to

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Speaker 1: have that ability to move in and out of this world.

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Speaker 1: And what I think of now is the other world.

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Speaker 1: You know, when when you started collecting the data, how

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Speaker 1: did you go about doing that? Did you send out

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Speaker 1: letters to people saying can you tell us what your

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Speaker 1: loved one said when they died? Or how did you

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Speaker 1: do that? Um? It was a slow process because you know,

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Speaker 1: anytime I'm anytime you do any kind of research that's new,

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Speaker 1: and especially involved with death and dying, people are a

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Speaker 1: little concerned and careful, and especially end of life is

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Speaker 1: a very sacred and private time. So I m you know,

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Speaker 1: the Internet is amazing. A lot of it began just

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Speaker 1: with Facebook, my website, and then gratefully because Raymond was

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Speaker 1: working with me, I was able to get some connections

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Speaker 1: and meet people. And you know, in the beginning, because

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Speaker 1: I'm a linguist, I had to vision at first, as

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to put tape recorders, digital recorders

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Speaker 1: at the boy, but really it turned up at that

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Speaker 1: was not the way to go for so many reasons.

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Speaker 1: You know. For example, let's say that you were on

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Speaker 1: your deathbed and you had a confession you wanted to

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Speaker 1: make to someone in the family. If I had a

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Speaker 1: digital recorder at your bedside and you knew it, would

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Speaker 1: you make that confession? You know, would you do? Would

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Speaker 1: you say what you really may be in your heart

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Speaker 1: want to say? And I realized that having a recorder

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Speaker 1: for you know, there's a lot of issues with consent,

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Speaker 1: but also the whole thing about I wanted to guard

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Speaker 1: people the sacred quality of it. So I landed up

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Speaker 1: just inviting friends and family to transcribe, write down what

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Speaker 1: they wanted to write down, and share what they wanted

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Speaker 1: to write down. And then I did a lot of

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Speaker 1: interviews with the experts in the field and asked them

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Speaker 1: what did they see and so based on experts and

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Speaker 1: their obtivations and their stories, and then of course the

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Speaker 1: transcripts of loved ones that were submitted to the Final

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Speaker 1: Words Project online, we have a form that people can

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Speaker 1: fill out and also talk people. As word got out,

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Speaker 1: I got more and more uh data, so and it

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Speaker 1: just keeps building, which is just fantastic because the more

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Speaker 1: data we have the more conclusions we can make. How

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Speaker 1: bizarre were some of these last words? Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: so you know um lot nowh my gosh, when you

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Speaker 1: say bizarre, I'm not too sure how to respond to that,

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Speaker 1: because there's such a rage. One of them that I

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Speaker 1: think of in terms of bizarre is um. There's this

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Speaker 1: one man and his father was really strict, army guy,

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Speaker 1: um and just the kind of guy who had no

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Speaker 1: sentimentality in him, just tough, all known nonsense, like no nonsense.

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Speaker 1: And he used to say to his son whenever his

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Speaker 1: son would complain, you know, buck up, you know you're

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Speaker 1: the master. What is that line? You know you're you're

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Speaker 1: the master of your ship. Do you know that line

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Speaker 1: by Evicteds? You know, be tough. You're the captain of

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Speaker 1: your faith, the master of your ship. And so the

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Speaker 1: right before he died he turned to his son and

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Speaker 1: he goes, uh, no, no, I'm the master of my fate.

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Speaker 1: I'm the captain of my huh bullsh and then passed

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Speaker 1: on I'm glad you stopped there too. But that was

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Speaker 1: when you say bizarre, that when there was sort of bizarre.

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Speaker 1: In many cases, they're actually I wouldn't call them they're

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Speaker 1: more remarkable. So let me give you one example. There's

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Speaker 1: someone who just sent this to me. Her brother was

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Speaker 1: a cell phone representative, and just before he died, he said,

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Speaker 1: airtime reducing minutes running out, or of course, let me

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Speaker 1: think of some the white butterflies are coming out of

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Speaker 1: your mouth, they're beautiful, machinery is worn out. Does anybody

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Speaker 1: say anything horribly frightening, like they're here for me, the

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Speaker 1: devil's here, anything like that. You know, it's really interesting

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Speaker 1: that you mentioned to seeing about the devil. I haven't

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Speaker 1: heard anything. I haven't heard people. A small percentage of

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Speaker 1: the samples that have come in have been I'm scared,

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Speaker 1: you know, help me hold me in most cases though,

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Speaker 1: And I'm not trying to sugarcoat death and dying because it's,

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Speaker 1: you know, a terrible thing to have a loss for people.

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Speaker 1: It can be difficult. But so often when you hear

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Speaker 1: you know, for example, it's beautiful over there, or I'm

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Speaker 1: going home, or there's the light, or don't worry about me,

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Speaker 1: or one I got recently, someone goes said I am

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Speaker 1: I am, I am the great I am and then

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Speaker 1: just passed on at that moment. So we was a

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Speaker 1: biblical phrase, wasn't it You know, it sounds like it is.

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Speaker 1: I don't. But this person, when it was so interesting,

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Speaker 1: had no Christian background, and that was one of the reasons.

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Speaker 1: You know, you think, if you hear this kind of

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Speaker 1: language or these kinds of associations from people who haven't

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Speaker 1: been to church every Sunday, you think, what is going

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Speaker 1: on here? Right, it's very it's intriguing. Or my father

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Speaker 1: talking about angels who used to roll his eyes anytime

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Speaker 1: I spoke about anything, you know, woo woo woo, or

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Speaker 1: in any way. So, but you know, the question about devils.

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Speaker 1: I was speaking to Raymond about this because we're working

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Speaker 1: on a book together right now called God Is Bigger

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Speaker 1: Than the Bible. Yeah, And it's a wonderful. It's just

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Speaker 1: such a joy to work with Raymond about this because

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Speaker 1: obviously he's had he's had decades of hearing people who

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Speaker 1: have died and otheran are resuscitated and they have experiences

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Speaker 1: of God. And one of the things that we were

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Speaker 1: just speaking about last week is commonly hear in the

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Speaker 1: churches that you're going to be punished for things, right,

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Speaker 1: that God is just terribly judgmental critter, not being right,

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Speaker 1: and and that there's devils and demons, very kind of

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Speaker 1: dark things. And actually what we hear from people have

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Speaker 1: near death experiences is that it's not about being punished.

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Speaker 1: What happens are these things called life reviews, right, so

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Speaker 1: that people look back at what they've done to others

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Speaker 1: and they feel it as if they've done it themselves.

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Speaker 1: So if I did something to you, George, and I

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Speaker 1: was mean spirited or did something cruel to you in

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Speaker 1: my life review, I would feel your pain. It comes

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Speaker 1: back and get you, doesn't it. It comes back and

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Speaker 1: get you. But it's not that God is sitting there

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Speaker 1: pointing his or her finger. It's more that you feel

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Speaker 1: it in your own body as if it's happened. And

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Speaker 1: so really and the same thing as people are dying,

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Speaker 1: we don't hear references. I haven't yet. Only a few

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Speaker 1: times I've heard references to men in black walking around

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Speaker 1: the bed. There. People do have visitations often before they

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Speaker 1: pass on, they'll see things, and there were few that

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Speaker 1: talked about men and men in black. Um. But the

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Speaker 1: whole idea of the davil and the demons. Even when

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Speaker 1: you look at near death experiences, a very small percentage

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Speaker 1: are hellish. Now they do exist. And again I'm not

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Speaker 1: trying to sugarcoat things, but we're looking at maybe three percent,

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Speaker 1: you know, a much smaller percentage. That's interesting that it's

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Speaker 1: that low. Yeah, well you you'll hear okay, let me,

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Speaker 1: let me, let me seven. It can go as high

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Speaker 1: as twelve percent, but it's it's that's more like it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What I want to say about that is that you

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Speaker 1: don't Well, here's one thing about that. Raymond's invention, which

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Speaker 1: I think is true, is if you had a near

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Speaker 1: death experience that was hellish, would you really want to

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Speaker 1: report to your doctor I went to hell? Right, Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you're in that state of mind

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Speaker 1: to reason and rash have any rational reasoning that is true,

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Speaker 1: You probably just spit it out. Well, you know what

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Speaker 1: Raymond has said, and I've noticed this with our search

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Speaker 1: with the Final Words Project. You know, we don't many

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Speaker 1: of us. If someone were to report that, you know,

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Speaker 1: I went to hell, there's so much embarrassment about that.

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Speaker 1: And same thing with the Final Words Project. I will

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Speaker 1: admit openly that I'm sure that our findings are skewed

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Speaker 1: in some ways, because if you're going to turn in

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Speaker 1: data report something. It's harder to report the hard stuff

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Speaker 1: and sometimes you're embarrassed or ashamed. So in terms of

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Speaker 1: the hellish one, I think you're probably spot on that

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Speaker 1: it's on the higher end of things because people they're

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Speaker 1: probably is under reporting of it. Yeah, twenty seven years ago,

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Speaker 1: comedian Sam Kenniston got into a head on collision and

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Speaker 1: he was dying. He was dying, and he was telling

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Speaker 1: whoever was out there, I don't want to die. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to die, and you put this in your

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Speaker 1: book words at the threshold. And then all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden he paused and then he went, but why, like

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Speaker 1: he was talking to someone, and then he went okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: and then he died. Somebody was telling him something. Listen

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Speaker 1: to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one

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Speaker 1: com for more