WEBVTT - Writing Avatar, Apes Rebel + Titanic Door Solutions! 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:11.320 Now really, now, hello again everybody, I am Jason Owens 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:13.600 and I'm still Peter Children. Still you want to stay 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.439 with it? Anyway? I really know? Really, today is what 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:20.599 is it? Imagine this is your situation. Now you get 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:23.520 asked to spend what's probably going to be ten years 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:27.520 of your life to work on several sequels of a 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:33.440 movie really that was made twelve years ago, and to 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:35.839 break even it has to make two billion dollars in 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:39.199 the theaters. Really, no, really, if someone comes to you 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:41.000 with that proposition, you got you know what, I got 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:43.320 other things on my plate. I got things to do. 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:46.000 You know what I say, I got another franchise. I 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:49.480 don't need you say. What do you say? They're betting 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:52.400 against James Cammeron really really discard did an alien? He 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:55.360 did a Terminator? Sure, he did the first Avatar, which 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.720 made a good zillion dollars. Who bets against this guy? 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:01.800 Either he the genius of the century or we finally 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:03.279 see a guy who is able to make a deal 0:01:03.320 --> 0:01:05.679 with the devil because nobody has those percentage were both 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:09.160 so we're both so I'm in So today we are 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:12.399 joined by a man we both know that's the lovely 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:16.080 guy who this, this couple along with his wife, who 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.800 is smart enough to not appear on our podcast smart 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.000 and he's either fifty percent of a couple, half of 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:25.760 a couple, or one eighth. We don't I think. I 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:29.600 think Rick does the typing, but I mean she dictates 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:32.240 paces and Rick gos yes, way, hello, slow it down 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:37.720 till one of the co writers of Avatar two three, four, eight, five, seven, six, seven, 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:40.200 nine and eleven, and let me just say yeah to 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:43.160 say Avatar the Way of the Order has overtaken. Titanic 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:45.440 is the third highest grossing movie of all times. An 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:49.320 amazing thing about this is to write a movie that's 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:51.680 global in this way. In China it did two hundred 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:54.200 and forty two million dollars, in Germany one hundred and 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:56.560 thirty five million. But the thing that's the most fascinating, yeah, 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:00.919 is it is the highest grossing film of all time 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:05.840 in France, Germany, Australia, Bulgaria. This is the number one 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:13.720 movie Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Portugal, Slovenia. Surest places that don't 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:15.880 have water, Slovakia, well, they don't have movies either, so 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.600 it's high um Cambodia, Mongolia. The last thing they saw 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:22.280 highest grossing film in Mongolia. I would not have seen 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:26.560 in the movie before the music New Zealand, Colombia and 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:30.399 Puerto Rico. Mister Rick Java is here with us. Congratulations. 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:32.000 Did you know all of those stats, by the way, 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:34.359 that the movie was that big in like Slovakia and 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:40.080 did you get the grosser like, yeah, the only man 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:42.480 on the planet, I know Slovakians. So you sitting in 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:44.440 the writers room, you go, oh, this kills and sis 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:48.800 joke killing Slovaskia. They definitely kill there. Wow, congratulations. I 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:51.760 didn't know those stats though I know this. I know 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:56.760 that the Ukrainian distributor called John John Landau to say 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.120 that it was going to be the highest grossing film 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.320 of all time and you crane and evidently he was 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:04.760 saying that the people really need it. When the lights 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.520 come back on, you know, in electricity comes back on, 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:10.440 people who are going to the theater to see the movie. 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:15.919 So you're saying, even through the war, they are still 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:18.320 getting access to that film and people are coming out 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:20.480 and seeing it in numbers. That's what I've been telling 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:27.240 that is spec Yeah, that's amazing. Congratulations and thank you. 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.720 So I everybody have to be with you, I'll never 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:31.519 forget this, because you know I'm prepping. I read a 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:33.960 lot about this stuff. And he said that Cameron gave 0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:37.680 the co writers. He started with a thousand page, single 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:40.480 spaced document and it got it down to eight hundred. 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:42.760 And we were talking about this earlier. We were with 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:46.320 Rick the night shortly after you got the assignment, and 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:48.800 you said to me, I heard the fax machine going 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.040 starting at like eight o'clock at night, and I heard 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:53.000 it at twelve, and then I heard it at three, 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.280 and then I heard it. It just kept going and going. 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.520 And you said, I think you said. He even described 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:00.920 like the bolts on the ounce side of the lab 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:03.560 thing that holds the water. Everything was so specific to 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:05.400 make sure you were up to speed on the world 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:08.640 that he created. Yeah. Well, the story was that I 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:10.520 emailed him right after our deal. First of all, I'm 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:22.120 approximately one half. I know he's smarter, and it's going 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:24.240 to become more obvious. I'm not coming from but I'm 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:27.839 listening anyway. I emailed Jim just said, hey, our deal's 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:29.839 clothes were really excited. Is there anything he want us 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:32.000 to do to prepare because the room wasn't going to 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:35.800 start for like three weeks and that's when within that's 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:37.960 all I said, And within I don't know, twenty minutes, 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:40.560 I got like a three three page single space to 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:46.400 response with attachments. The first attachment was called Pandorapedia, which 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:50.559 was by the way, available online and just anything you'd 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:54.200 ever want to know about Avatar Pandora, and that described 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.800 the flora, the fauna of the of the planet, but 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:01.320 also the rivets in the and the shuttles, and it 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:05.640 was it was so unbelievably specific. And uh so, what 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:08.480 happened was is that I just hit print. I didn't 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:10.680 even look at it. I just hit print. And that's 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:12.919 when the machine started going. And it was in the 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:15.440 days when the wheel would expand the numbers would go, 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:19.320 and at like eighty, I started to get concerned. I 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.040 had three hundred and fifty. I thought, there goes my marriage, 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.520 you know, I was really concerned. That was But let 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.600 me say though, that was just the beginning. A PA 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.120 came over like almost with the truck and dropped off 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.760 books and movies, the things he wanted to read and watch, 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:37.600 and once we got into the room, that's when he 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:41.680 shared with us. I think that he had like fifteen 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:45.120 hundred pages of his own personal notes going all the 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.440 way back to middle school. And he didn't make us 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:50.760 go through all of those, but he read to us 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:55.479 and we read with him. Probably seven hundred page was it? So? 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:57.479 How much of it was character different? How much of it? 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:00.279 How many rivets on the side of a thing? Yeah, 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:03.120 because I would imagine, even even with his melodious voice, 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:07.360 seven hundred pages of the rivets. That's a little. It 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:12.120 was depends on what the thing, because I'm listening totsything. 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:15.800 It was both. It was both. I mean, he came 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.599 in saying, I want to build a family saga. That 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:22.000 was kind of his first introduction to us into the room. 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:23.880 I want to build a family saga. But before we 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.960 get there, let's do our homework. So James could pick 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.479 anybody to do this avatar thing. You picked two other 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:31.120 writers and you and your wife. What was it that 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:32.599 you saw on you and your wife? What piece of 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:34.080 work where you went? I think I want to work 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:37.480 with these people. We had actually written a draft of 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:42.520 Fantastic Voyage, which was on development for a long time 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:45.359 at We were kind of like long middle relievers on 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:49.000 that project, and so he and John were producers and 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.640 so that was our first introduction to those guys, but 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:55.680 plant and it was Rise to the Planet of Apes. 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:58.360 Really that got him excited. And then when we met 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:00.440 with him, he said to me later, he said, look, 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.480 I it was important. It was important to him that 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:08.799 the room be collaborative and open and in good listeners. 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:12.240 And he said he figured that if Amanda and I 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:16.000 could be together, you know, thirty years and collaborate and 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:19.360 still be married, that we must have mad collaboration skills. 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:25.120 I'm I'm in the macro. I'm interested in I'm interested 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:28.720 in romantic couples life, couple partners that are able to 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:32.040 take that partnership into their work, because you are. You know, 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:34.560 it's hard enough to navigate a relationship sometimes, but to 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.320 navigate a working relationship and a personal relationship. So I'm 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:40.840 interested in that. But I'm also in the room, which 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.320 we get is collaborative. Everybody's got an open voice. But 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:46.200 do you in Amanda tend to present ideas as a 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.120 unified team or is she's got something her idea, You've 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:51.440 got your idea. It gets worked out in the process. 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:56.280 In the avatar room, we were never huddled together and 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:58.280 then come up with an idea and consented because we 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:02.920 were sitting there as a unit. Jim, Yeah, it was Jim, Amanda, me, 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:07.840 Josh Friedman and Shane Siller and uh and so as 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:12.160 a team. We we tried to build this family saga 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:18.120 out originally over three movies. But uh, but um, we 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:21.280 would just contribute individually. But you under then Amanda and 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:23.520 I though obviously would go home. On the way home, 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:25.920 unless we were too tired to think, you know, we 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:27.800 would talk and then a lot of times we would 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.920 work things out together and one of us would present it. 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.240 It didn't really matter whether it came from her, from 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:35.960 me or you know, there was never anything like, you know, 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:38.719 we we cooked this up. What do you guys think? 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:40.360 It's just an idea? And what if you're not on 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:42.839 the same page with an idea? Yeah, does go? Well? 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.920 It never happens. But because flamming doors, no, I'm not 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:48.360 talking to you, I just say yes to everything. Well, 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:50.840 and that's that's the key, that's that says what that's 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:57.040 what makes the horse he's riding all right really true? 0:08:57.280 --> 0:08:59.839 Do you find for the most part that the way 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:04.400 to navigate both of those realities is is to kind 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:06.680 of let her take the lead or or or is 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.640 there a moment? Look, I vehemently disagree we have to 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:13.560 go this way. The thing is is that what's kept 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:17.320 at working all these years is that we just have 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:20.560 really and it has definitely helped our marriage. But we 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:24.079 just really listen to one another. I mean really listen. 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:27.520 So we don't we don't listen in order to respond. 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:30.760 You know, it's not a ping pong match, you know, 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.480 it's really listening and understanding where Because even if an 0:09:34.520 --> 0:09:36.920 idea comes and you don't like it or you don't 0:09:36.960 --> 0:09:39.920 think it's right, it's coming from something. And this is 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.720 a person, I mean, Amanda, you know, someone I respect 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:45.360 as much as anyone on earth, so in terms of 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:48.640 her creativity and her smarts and all. So I really listen. 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:53.120 It's like, where's this idea coming from? You know why 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:54.920 I'm screwed? Ask me Sat Peter, why are you screwing? 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.120 Why are you screwing? Because when my wife listens to 0:09:57.160 --> 0:09:59.840 this episode, when it gets to this point, I'm going 0:09:59.880 --> 0:10:04.360 to here from the other room. See See he listens. 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:07.760 He's not expecting an answer, he's not just he just 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.640 sometimes you just need to let me talk, not have 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:15.480 a solution. That's gonna happen. That's gonna happen. You know 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:18.400 what I was gonna say is he was describing really 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:21.199 the relationship you and I have because we listen to 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:26.320 each other talk, what don't what's your anyway? Listen what 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:30.079 I was gonna say, We do. We do, We actually 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.240 listen to but we we have a very different thing 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:37.720 because we more often than that, we are on other 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:43.280 sides of an idea. It's a negotiation that involves threats 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:45.800 and oh, we've had the great thing and I can 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:48.200 say this, we have had. We have one in front 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.360 of our crew where they get uncomfortable and we're going 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:52.920 at it. And the great thing about him and our 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:55.200 friendship is a lot of people say when it's over, 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:57.000 it's over, but it's not. They hold a grudge. I 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:00.760 don't have. I have zero, zero, It just goes away. 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.040 It's just it's been thirty years and now he's the 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.880 fact that I'm usually right helps a lot, because the 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.560 delusion is why bother? Why try to explain to somebody 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:10.959 who doesn't get it? You know, they don't get it. 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:13.480 They don't get it. So I gotta ask you, Jim Cameron. 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:15.960 I've been around Jim's Carment a little bit. Yeah, he's scary. 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:18.480 He scares me. I heard if a phone goes off 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:22.319 on the set, he takes a nail gun and nails 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.520 it to the wall. Um, I heard what I just 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:31.080 that's the landline, right, Schwartzenegger, I wanted the movie terminators 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:32.240 had to go to the bathroom, but he was in 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:36.480 the costume and Jim went no, no, no, no, no, no no, 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:38.040 no no, you don't go to the bathroom right now. 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:41.680 And Schwartzenegger, I think, relieve himself on Jim or whatever. 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:44.480 Is he that tough? And and part of that is 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:48.520 I'm also blown away because he feels there's a thing 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:53.880 that's successful people do, and it's called certainty. They come 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:56.959 at it with certainty. You don't doubt it. Larry David 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.440 on Seinfeld, Jerry and Steinfeld. They didn't take any No, 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:01.720 they didn't want notes. They listened, but there were certainty 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.400 they said, no, we're doing this in at one Jimmy 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:08.560 looks like he used the poster board for certainty. So 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.080 when you're dealing with that, that's a little bit intimidating. 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:13.679 So is he scary? I mean, your friends, now you've 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:17.319 worked with him, but he's a daunting figure. It was 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:19.520 more so in the very beginning. You know, we were 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:23.920 all a little nervous and intimidated. I think. But the 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.720 thing about about Jim in terms of the writer's room 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:30.200 is that you have to remember he's a writer also. 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.720 I mean you think of him as a director or 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:37.040 this technological genius and it's bigger than life character. But 0:12:37.200 --> 0:12:41.280 in a writer's room, he's just one of the writers, 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:44.240 one of the guys, as it were. And he wanted 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.200 us all to be really comfortable. Also, because I'll go 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.320 back to the family saga of it all, when we 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.160 got into the room, it required being open and telling 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.440 a lot of personal stories and opening up not just 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:59.480 about our kids, but my relationship with my brother, you know, 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:02.280 who had passed away a year before we got into 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:06.480 the room. And so if if we all had felt intimidate, 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:09.800 I think Jim realized, if we'd felt so intimidated, it's like, 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:12.560 am I gonna really talk about my brother? Am I 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:16.000 really gonna suggest this dynamic? Because it was the way 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:18.480 it was for me of growing up or its like that. 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:22.679 So it felt like a very safe room. So we 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:27.439 never saw any of those kinds of behavioral things. I'm 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.439 sure they're true, by the way, I'm sure they are. 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.960 But we we we you know, were fortunate. We never 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:36.120 saw it where there did get a couple of times 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:39.400 like when we would start to argue. You know, there 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:41.040 was one time we were he and I were arguing 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.600 story point and Shane at the end of the table 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:47.800 just leans down the table. He says, stay down, Luke, 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:56.040 stay down if he if you pitched goes Yeah, I 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:59.120 think so, I mean it is it is it? Can 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:02.520 you change his mind or is it sort of certain? 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:07.520 And yeah, usually you can't change his mind in the moment. 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.520 A lot of times, though, the right idea finds its 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:16.000 way and it will become his idea. You know. But that, 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:18.320 by the way, well that's us, that's right, that's but 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.840 that's that's sure. Now that's human nature. So that's that's 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.840 a big part of our job, me and Amanda is 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:28.960 to a lot of times introduce things that then can 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:34.800 become panning the seed. And and it wasn't ever apples 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.480 to apples. It wasn't always apples to apples. Sometimes you'd 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:41.440 suggest something and it would become you know, Jim's banana 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:43.680 and what were the movies he sent you into prep. 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:47.680 What was he everything from Emerald Forest, I mean things 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:51.680 with indigenous characters, things that work, things that didn't work. 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:53.720 But he was influenced by Star Wars and you by 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:57.400 James Bond, right, isn't that is not kind of the Yeah, 0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:59.280 it's funny we did. We did bring up all that 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:02.480 stuff in the room. Um for some of those underwads. 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:05.120 So funny with some of those underwater scenes. I said, 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.880 there was this great moment in Thunderball, and so we 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:10.560 can maybe it goes. Let's go watch that, and of 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:17.360 course we do it. It didn't hold up at all. 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:21.600 It just was so slow, you know. But but you know, honestly, 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.720 when you're designing how you're gonna how you're gonna get 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:29.800 a movie like that, which is so much underwater acting, right, 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:32.560 do you ever think, well, I gotta get my actors 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.400 up to ninety seconds in order to get this sequence. 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:38.640 We were at one point in the room and we 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:40.920 were deep into the room. We had probably designed the 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:45.040 first and second film already. I asked Jim, I said, 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:47.960 have you figured out, like how are you gonna do 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.640 performance capture underwater? And he literally said, I don't know, 0:15:51.720 --> 0:16:04.920 but I'll figure it out. Studios notoriously fidgety and upset. 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:07.880 I'm guessing when they can't see it, and it's four 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.000 hundred million or five hundred million bucks in the cedyard, 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:11.280 it's going to come later. And you just got to 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.760 believe what I'm saying. Yeah, he has no studio has 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:16.400 no say in this. They don't look at the script, 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:18.320 they can't approve nothing, they don't talk. They just let 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:20.280 him go and pray. They sit and pray the whole time. 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:21.760 And it's all, well, there were you know, they were 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:26.880 regime changes throughout these number of years, so things were 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:29.800 handed down. But Emma Watts, who was running Fox at 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.760 the time, did read the scripts and she did give 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:38.200 a handful of notes. I think, how does that depends 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:43.680 on what the nuts you guys actually stood fast against. 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:47.080 I think it was probably studio notes Unrise the Planet 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:50.320 of the Apes, because it was your idea that the 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:53.640 protagonist in that film had to be Caesar, and they 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:55.960 kept saying, though, it has to be the humans, and 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:59.400 how did you and they basically dismissed you from the 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.880 project for two or three times. Yeah. Well yeah, they 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:07.000 they said to us, let's be clear, we'll never have 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:10.560 we'll never make the movie if the ape is the protagonist. 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:14.800 And we said absolutely yes, you're absolutely right, and we 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:17.920 just kept writing what we knew to be right and true. 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:20.879 And so then we got fired. And the thing is 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:22.879 that we were producers on it, so when we sold 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:26.879 them the idea, we insisted on being producers for moments 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:29.000 just like this one. So we'd be fired and then 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.040 another writer would come on and then we'd be sitting 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.760 there in the room with the other writer. Thing. Then 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:36.000 we tried that already, that doesn't really work. You may 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:38.760 want to try it this way. So that happened. So 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:40.679 I guess we got fired three times off of that, 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:45.359 and we just, I don't know, we just kept It's 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:47.959 kind of like the Bobby Kennedy Missiles of October thing. 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.480 We just pretended we didn't get We remember that the 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.760 letter from cruise. We didn't get letter, So it's kind 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:55.560 of like that. Richard Gear told me the same thing. 0:17:55.600 --> 0:17:57.359 I'm pretty woman, he said, I said, what do you 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.280 do if if the director gives you a note and 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.239 it just doesn't feel right? He's like, uh huh uh 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:06.560 huh yes, and then they shoot another take and I 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:08.159 do what I want to do and then the director 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:09.520 comes over and he goes, no, no no, no, What I 0:18:09.560 --> 0:18:11.000 meant is da da da da da da da. And 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:14.560 you go yes, oh, yes, yes, and then you do 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.480 exactly what you do. When he goes after about four takes, 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.560 they'll give up. They'll go he's stupid, but you'll never 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:23.680 do something, you know, that's for us. We learned this 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.800 from Curtis Hanson, you know, who was the first director 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.840 who directed our first movie. And he would he would 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:32.879 say to us, he would go to these uh notes 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:36.080 meetings and he would always be so thin and so calm, 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.000 and he'd say to us, look, even if it sounds 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.000 like the stupidest note you've ever gotten, you have to 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:44.320 give them the benefit of the doubt. The notes coming 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.720 from something. So if they're saying this moment isn't playing 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:51.280 an act too, then maybe the setup an act one 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:54.800 isn't clear or precise enough. And so we never really 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:58.240 dismiss It's easy to say, oh, the studios are full. 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:00.600 They're not idiots. I mean they know it's a tough 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:03.600 job and they have a job to do. And so 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.080 again it's listening, it's like, well, where is this note 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:12.200 really coming from? Yea, And sometimes and sometimes it actually, 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:15.440 you know, you can find it something really. My wife, 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.320 who's a painter, says something very similar. Someone will say 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:21.000 the face isn't quite right, the face isn't quite right, 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:22.600 and she'll look at it and she goes, well, the 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:24.640 face is right, and she'll say, what it is is 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.400 the thing next to the thing isn't right right. It's 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:29.960 not that the face isn't right. The hair is off. 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:32.320 The hair is the wrong chroma and it's throwing off 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:35.160 and she goes, So sometimes, and I've tried to take 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:37.359 that in when when I have any kind of creative control, 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.280 sometimes it's the thing next to the thing, or or 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:41.800 as you say, the set up and act one is 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:44.920 telling the story. Yeah, and sometimes too, as a writer, 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:48.119 do you think, oh man, you crazy, don't you see it? 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.800 But it's not really clear. Sometimes it's clear to you. 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:53.119 And the good thing about us as a team is 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:55.199 that it's got to get through two filters before it 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.800 gets to the studio, so it's fewer times and something's 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.359 not clear. But even so a lot of times it'll 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:03.560 get past both of us and we'll think no, no, no no, 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.440 that moment's playing. But then you reread it and you 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.159 think no, okay, it's it's really nice. We're gonna be 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:12.960 really honest. It can be clearer and and then sometimes 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:15.919 too we write it as if we're writing, you know, 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:18.520 screenwriting for dummies kind of a thing. It's just really 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:21.200 spell it out. You know, the king is dead, right? 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:23.919 I think I read camera The camera said eighty percent 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:27.159 of this movie is X it's digital. Did you have 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:29.920 a sense that this was going to be this insane 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:33.399 box office? But also do you when you know that 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:38.080 it has to be this insane but you have to 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:41.159 hit two billion dollars in order to break even? Do 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:44.600 do you sit there and go, oh, that's that's madness. 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:47.400 You can't. We can't go forward. We can't. I mean, 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:50.640 is there a panic when you know? Luckily no one 0:20:50.640 --> 0:20:54.600 ever told us that. We didn't hear that until, you know, 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:57.959 maybe three or four months before it came out. We 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:00.119 were starting to hear those kind of quotes. Jim is 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:03.160 that he was misquoted in that, by the way, but uh, 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:05.280 but I don't know. I never read that quote. I'll 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:08.840 tell you what. We were intimidated though, by trying to 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:13.240 write a sequel to the most successful movie of all. Yeah, 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:15.600 and not only that, it's a great movie and it 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:18.320 works on all these different cylinders, and it played all 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:21.800 over the world and it's like that was that was 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:26.399 a little scary. Yeah, and uh but once once we 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:29.679 kind of got to know the family and got to 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:33.119