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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Smitha and welcome Stephan. I

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Speaker 1: ever told you a prediction of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 2: And we're a little bit late with this specific episode edition,

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Speaker 2: but we wanted to do the award winning movie Sinners,

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Speaker 2: and because it was just released last year, you know,

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Speaker 2: it has to be a Saturday spoiler, so a lot

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Speaker 2: of feminist movie necessarily, it is a feminist movie in retrospective,

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Speaker 2: like we're doing this as a movie, but it's a

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Speaker 2: spoiler Saturday. So obviously, lots of spoilers ahead, lots of spoilers.

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Speaker 2: And if you've been fortunate enough to not have been

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Speaker 2: spoiled already or know anything about it, that's the best

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Speaker 2: way to go into a movie, So you should stop

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Speaker 2: and watch first and then come back. Yeah, spoiler alert.

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Speaker 2: I will say I knew nothing about this movie until

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Speaker 2: I watched it. So when I realized it had vampires

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Speaker 2: in it, I was like, wait, what did you know

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Speaker 2: much before you started watching it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I did you do get some on it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I find I'm really having a hard time avoiding spoilers

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Speaker 1: these days, and I'm not entirely sure.

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Speaker 3: I think it's my.

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Speaker 1: Algorithm, but yes, I did know that there were v

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Speaker 1: Empires involved. I knew that music was a key element,

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Speaker 1: and I knew that it had a kind of gothic.

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Speaker 2: Vibe, Southern Gothic, and I've talked about how much I

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Speaker 2: love Southern Gothic, and this is absolutely the epitome of

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Speaker 2: Southern Gothic horror. So hello, Also, content warning, we do

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Speaker 2: talk about death, racism, a lot of hate speech. I

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Speaker 2: don't think we'd say any of those things, but you

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Speaker 2: know it's obviously in there. This is going to be

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Speaker 2: taking place in the nineteenth two, I believe, so lots

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Speaker 2: of racism in that point in time. We are not

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Speaker 2: going to talk a lot about the controversies that are

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Speaker 2: occurring at this point. It is February twenty sixth and

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty six if you're wondering asp recording this, so

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Speaker 2: but when instead, we're going to talk about what we

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Speaker 2: thought was really significant about this movie and some of

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Speaker 2: the things that I was very fascinated by in this

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Speaker 2: movie as well, So go ahead and put that there.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, this episode is going to be a bit

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Speaker 2: different because this movie is so layered. So not only

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Speaker 2: do we have want to talk about the movie plot

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Speaker 2: and ending, but the history of the many first of

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Speaker 2: the movie was able to have, and then some of

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Speaker 2: the themes around it as well. So let's get we

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Speaker 2: are currently in awards season as a part of the Writers' Union,

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Speaker 2: we get a lot of emails and sweet this is

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Speaker 2: one of those. This was one of those movies.

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Speaker 1: My mom is so impressed by that, even though it's like, honestly,

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Speaker 1: it's great, but it's not that impressive, but thinks it's

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Speaker 1: the coolest thing.

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Speaker 2: Well, again, I've been able to attend a screening with

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Speaker 2: a Q and A with one of the stars for

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Speaker 2: one of the movies because of that opportunity, so, you know,

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Speaker 2: not this movie specifically, but Leanna Taylor was a blast

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Speaker 2: to see, and that means the movie world is buzzing

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Speaker 2: with a lot of whispers and controversies, especially around Sinners.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately it is in the middle of again, in that

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Speaker 2: middle of the whispers and conversations. I know things have

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Speaker 2: arisen with the Baptist, which should have been in time

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Speaker 2: for celebration, but things kind of overshadowed it. But it

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Speaker 2: doesn't negate the fact that they are winning and getting

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Speaker 2: the accolades they truly deserve. We know when it was

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Speaker 2: first released and talks of awards were coming around, there

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Speaker 2: was a lot of like dispute about whether it's worth

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Speaker 2: as much as these other movies. And we've had a

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Speaker 2: lot of people coming out with support for Ryan Coogler

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Speaker 2: and this movie in general and why it does deserve

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Speaker 2: to be at the top of the list for the

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Speaker 2: movie's released of twenty twenty five. And I agree with

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Speaker 2: that statement. This is a phenomenal movie. It was unique,

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Speaker 2: it was a different take. I loved it. Currently, the

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Speaker 2: film has four hundred and twenty four nominations including Best Picture,

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Speaker 2: Best Director, Best Actor, Best Supporting Actor and Actress, Best Score,

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Speaker 2: and Song, Production Screenplay. And this is with the Academy Awards,

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Speaker 2: they I'll get have so much more. It currently has

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Speaker 2: two hundred wins, including the recent BAFTET for Best Supporting

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Speaker 2: Actress and Best Original Screenplay, Critics Choice Award for Best

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Speaker 2: Young Performer and also Original Screenplay. I think how four

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Speaker 2: undred twenty four is a lot and some of the

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Speaker 2: first we want to celebrate include the fact that they're

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Speaker 2: the first film in history to earn sixteen OSCAR nominations,

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Speaker 2: like Blew Out the Water including One Battle after Another,

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Speaker 2: which has thirteen nominations so, and this is first also

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Speaker 2: for a woman of color to be nominated for Best Cinematography,

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Speaker 2: and that is Autumn Chyenne World Chapel, which is phenomenal

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Speaker 2: in itself. Did you have more information on that? You

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Speaker 2: and I talked about this filament because she was such

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Speaker 2: a big part of this movie and she had just

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Speaker 2: made history with that nomination.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So when we were talking about what movie we

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Speaker 1: wanted to do for this month, I really wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk about this one because because of that historic nomination,

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Speaker 1: but because I believe this is also historic in terms

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Speaker 1: of how many women have been nominated in technical fields

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Speaker 1: that is not unfortunately that's kind of rarer, but that

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Speaker 1: I don't think she's the only one. I believe there's

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Speaker 1: some some other women in the field, which is great,

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Speaker 1: Like that is an amazing thing, as sad as it

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Speaker 1: is at all, right long, but it just felt so important.

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Speaker 1: And when you get a movie that gets this many accolades,

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Speaker 1: that gets this much attention, you have to think about

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Speaker 1: the cinematography of the person who put it together and

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Speaker 1: why it worked so well. And yes, it was a woman,

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Speaker 1: it was a woman of color like that. I just

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Speaker 1: think that's so important and we should look to that

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Speaker 1: and think about why that is.

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Speaker 2: She did a phenomenal job. Some of the says again

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Speaker 2: are just breathtaking, yes, and so memorable, so memorable. And

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Speaker 2: there are so many articles out there talking about her

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Speaker 2: process with Coogler and how they had to stage everything,

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Speaker 2: and how they had to pre plan everything, how long

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Speaker 2: it took to get it done, the procedures, and the

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Speaker 2: actors talking about like coming back to see it and

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Speaker 2: being like, oh, oh my god, that is amazing, Like

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Speaker 2: that level of professionalism, that level of imagination in itself

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Speaker 2: to come to the screen is beautiful. And they also

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Speaker 2: had a verse for Ryan Kugler's ownership deal he made

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Speaker 2: with Warner Brothers, and it was it made huge news,

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Speaker 2: like people were like, oh damn, that's gonna be huge

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Speaker 2: for the industry and the future of how negotiations go

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Speaker 2: because it has given Coogler the rights to the movie

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Speaker 2: after twenty five years. Again, it is not done with

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Speaker 2: the directors in general to have ownership of their work,

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Speaker 2: and this allows for him to receive royalties and all

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Speaker 2: of the money after the fact, which typically go to

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Speaker 2: the production studio. And that is an important conversation we

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Speaker 2: need to be having about who is getting the money

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Speaker 2: when it continues to blow up, when you have the

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Speaker 2: anniversaries and when you have the conversation because we've definitely

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Speaker 2: watched a lot of classics and know they put a

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Speaker 2: lot of time and celebrating these films. Lord of the

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Speaker 2: Rings could be a big example, and re releasing and

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Speaker 2: reshowing and who is making that money Yep, not the directors. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So we love to see it like people were gaged

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Speaker 2: essentially trying to coldn't imagine that he actually asked for that,

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Speaker 2: and not only asked for that, but he got that.

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Speaker 2: And it's really important to see that the right people

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Speaker 2: get the ownership and get the accolades that they deserve

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Speaker 2: and the credit and this is again and get paid

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Speaker 2: so kudos. And I will say I'm interested in how

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Speaker 2: that will change the future of negotiations right now, and

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of people are in that same

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Speaker 2: especially as successful as it is. Love that. So with

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Speaker 2: all of that, we're going to jump into the plot

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Speaker 2: against Boilers ahead. If you haven't watched it, go watch it.

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Speaker 2: So it's nineteen thirty two set in the Jim Crow

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Speaker 2: South where we meet young Sammy played by Miles Kayton,

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Speaker 2: in his acting debut. He's a youngin that they saw

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Speaker 2: on social media singing and he's got an incredible boygel

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Speaker 2: and I'm playing are also known as Preacher Boy. He's

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Speaker 2: working out in the cotton fields, sending his daily Quota ray.

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Speaker 2: The start of the day, he runs home and tries

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Speaker 2: to find his beloved guitar, which is a nineteen thirty

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Speaker 2: two dobro Cyclops resonator guitar. So like that thing was pristine,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure it took so long for them to

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Speaker 2: get that, And for the composer Ludwig Gornson, who is

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Speaker 2: essentially Coogler's partner in all of the movies, he was

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Speaker 2: bound and determined to find that so he could get

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Speaker 2: that haunting music that he knows is so part of

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Speaker 2: the blues, so very important. Beautiful instrument, beautiful. It was

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Speaker 2: a guitar that was given to him by his cousins.

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Speaker 2: Smokes that twins and after realizing that his father, the preacher,

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Speaker 2: had taken it, he goes to the church and is

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Speaker 2: trying to get it from his father, who warns him

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Speaker 2: that quote, if you keep dancing with the devil, one

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Speaker 2: day he'll be following you home. When I was like

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Speaker 2: h foreshadowing, which if you know anything about Southern Gothic,

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Speaker 2: you have to have all the foreshadowing, all of it.

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Speaker 2: So we now meet the Smokestack twins, Elijah Smoke and

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Speaker 2: Elias stack Moore, both played by Michael B. Jordan, who

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Speaker 2: have left Chicago to return home. They've come back with

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Speaker 2: supplies and a plan to open a new juke joint,

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Speaker 2: recruiting local legend Delta Slim played by Delroy Lindo, who

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Speaker 2: actually is also winning some of awards out there. They

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Speaker 2: also recruit Cornbread, a friend as the bouncer played by

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Speaker 2: Omar Binson Miller Annie who was played by award winning

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Speaker 2: one Nim Masoku who has been the part of the

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Speaker 2: Marvel world and she was part of the Lovecraft Country

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Speaker 2: which also has the same like Southern Gothic field that

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Speaker 2: I love and horror obviously, and she plays the estranged

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Speaker 2: wife of Smoke and Whodoo practitioner. Important. They got supplies

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Speaker 2: from the neighborhoods shopkeepers Bo and Grace Chow, who are

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Speaker 2: played by Lee June Lee and Yall, who are two

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Speaker 2: of the Chinese actors that have been a part of

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Speaker 2: this and have made pretty big headlines in itself. So

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Speaker 2: we learned throughout the movie that Smoke and Annie are

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Speaker 2: strange to the grief of losing their baby and Smoke's

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Speaker 2: decision to go with Stack. They live a pretty hard lifestyle, y'all.

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Speaker 2: We kind of know that they've been up to some things.

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Speaker 2: We don't know what. They've got quiet reputation. You don't

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Speaker 2: mess with these boys. You don't mess with its boys.

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Speaker 2: I believe there's a legend that we do find out

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Speaker 2: that may or may not have happened, because we find

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Speaker 2: out also Stack lies to tell some tall tales, but

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Speaker 2: they could have killed their father who was abusive and

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Speaker 2: was hurting them, as well as so many other things.

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Speaker 2: So and I think the legend of them are pretty true.

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Speaker 2: As he immediately shoots people that try to rob him.

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Speaker 2: He also pays for their healing for terror hospitals, so

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Speaker 2: you know, great. But between Annie and Smoke, they obviously

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Speaker 2: still miss each other, and she talks about continuing to

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Speaker 2: protect him while he's out in the world through heart practice,

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Speaker 2: and she's a great character. So at the same time,

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Speaker 2: we see a stranger who is obviously injured rush to

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Speaker 2: a home begging for help and refuge. From people who

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Speaker 2: are hunting him. It turns out that people are Kkka

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Speaker 2: members who were willing to trust this man since he

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Speaker 2: was white and had gold. After the hunters turns out

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Speaker 2: to be native indigenous peoples, the Choctaw nations specifically try

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Speaker 2: to find this person, try to warn the couple, don't

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Speaker 2: invite men. Don't invite a man, and you know, God

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Speaker 2: God protect you, may or God protect you if you do.

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Speaker 2: They leave, and then we see that the stranger has

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Speaker 2: turned them all into vampires because he is a vampire.

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Speaker 3: Vampire needs to be invited in, got to.

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Speaker 2: Be invited in. So as claud Juke, which is what

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Speaker 2: Smoke and Stack have put together, comes together, we see

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Speaker 2: the party growing with good music and dancing throughout the night.

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Speaker 2: Then during this time we get to see the historical

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Speaker 2: look of music and different cultures coming together. The scene

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Speaker 2: is incredible. We're gonna talk a little bit more about

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Speaker 2: the scene later, but they do a moment of which

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Speaker 2: it does transcend and call out, call out to the

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Speaker 2: spirits out there, because it is it moves through the

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Speaker 2: years and times, future and past and coming together through

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Speaker 2: the music that that preacher boy Sammy is making. So

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Speaker 2: we also have Mary, which I didn't mention before, played

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Speaker 2: by Hailey Steinfeld, who is Stack's ex girlfriend who is

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Speaker 2: also white passing. So her grandfather was half black and

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Speaker 2: so she is able to pass off as white, and

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Speaker 2: Stack had wanted her to marry to a white man

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Speaker 2: and live comfortably, but she was in love with Stack

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Speaker 2: so many things. Her father, her mother had just died,

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Speaker 2: who had actually had helped raise Stack of smoke, and

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Speaker 2: that's why she was in the town, and you know,

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Speaker 2: decided she needs to go check this s place out

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Speaker 2: and see what Stack goes up to specifically, and she

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Speaker 2: stirs a lot of things up, though a lot of

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Speaker 2: people didn't recognize her. When they do, they literally like

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Speaker 2: welcome her back with open arms and let invite her

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Speaker 2: into the party. So as the party continues, Samy inadvertently

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Speaker 2: gets the attention of the vampire, whose we learned is

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Speaker 2: named Remick played by Jack O'Connell and his now new family,

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Speaker 2: but then quotes Burton Joan who are now vampires as

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Speaker 2: the vampires again they cannot get in without an invitation,

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Speaker 2: so after being turned away, they stay near, playing their

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Speaker 2: own music and waiting. So it is very bluegrass sounding,

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Speaker 2: but later on we have a wonderful Irish folk song

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Speaker 2: by Remiic and then it latches onto the entirety of

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Speaker 2: the crew. Barry decides to go and investigate whether or

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Speaker 2: not they are coming to make trouble because you know,

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Speaker 2: Stack and Smoke, or worry that maybe they're from Chicago

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Speaker 2: coming to plot revenge because some things again have them

257
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Speaker 2: imply that they went after some of the gangsters of Chicago,

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Speaker 2: and if you know that, you don't want to be

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Speaker 2: messing messing with them. So she goes and tries to

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Speaker 2: figure out what's going on, but then it turns out

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Speaker 2: she ends up being killed and turned as well, and

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Speaker 2: then chaos and sues. Yes after Mary gets an invite

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Speaker 2: back inside the club after the fact she didn't kill Stack,

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Speaker 2: which causes the evening to turn very quickly. After being

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Speaker 2: shot several times by Smoke, Mary runs out the club

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Speaker 2: to declaring that they would kill them all and he

267
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Speaker 2: quickly quickly and I love this part. I'm not gonna lie.

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Speaker 2: Assesses the situation and try tries to get Smoked to

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Speaker 2: put Stack outside of the club because she knew something

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Speaker 2: was wrong. This is not right. Uh. Later we find

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Speaker 2: that Cornbread has been turned as well, because he decided

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Speaker 2: to go he needed to go into the woods. And

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Speaker 2: oh and Grace has also convinced Bo to go start

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Speaker 2: the car because she knew something was wrong and he

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Speaker 2: didn't come back either, So there are things happening, and

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Speaker 2: and he declares what has to be done. She's like,

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Speaker 2: all right, this is what's happening because Cornbread has come

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Speaker 2: back and kind of revealed the fact that, yes, things

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Speaker 2: are not all right. We have Stack coming back to

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Speaker 2: life and very angry about it and runs out the

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Speaker 2: club as well because they figured out things are not good.

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Speaker 2: He is not okay. They are not okay with that, declares.

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Speaker 2: Annie declares that they have to get garlic and steaks

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Speaker 2: and make sure that they're not inviting anybody inside. That

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Speaker 2: these are the rules of who they are, and she'd

286
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,120
Speaker 2: gone through different lures of what they could be, and

287
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Speaker 2: says that the vampires are the worst of the worst,

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Speaker 2: essentially that they are cursed to live with no sun,

289
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Speaker 2: not I've never seen the sun again and never being

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Speaker 2: able to reunite with those in the afterlife, and lit

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Speaker 2: that she has predicted her own death that night and

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Speaker 2: tells Smoke makes him promise that he will kill her

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Speaker 2: before she turns so that she can be with their baby,

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Speaker 2: and she's like, I have someone waiting for me on

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Speaker 2: the other side, and so do you. Parts And with

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Speaker 2: a controversial moment in which Grace loses all hope after

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Speaker 2: being essentially rage baited by her now dead husband slash

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Speaker 2: vampire husband and those around with them, threatening her their

299
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Speaker 2: daughter Lisa, she yells and invite in pausing all of

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Speaker 2: the vampires to storm into the club. We see a

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Speaker 2: long battle and violence, and we see that Sammy is

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Speaker 2: able to in the end escape after so much And

303
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Speaker 2: by the way, I forgot that Remiic was focused on

304
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Speaker 2: Sammy and even said if you send me him, well

305
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Speaker 2: we will let you all live. Just give me Sammy

306
00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,840
Speaker 2: is his music that I'm drawn to, as his father

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00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,080
Speaker 2: had said, and of course Smoke was not having that.

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Speaker 2: In the end, after a long battle, Smoke was able

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Speaker 2: to save Sammy, unfortunately anyone else, and Sammy is able

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Speaker 2: to escape. At the same time, Spoke has destroyed the vampires,

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Speaker 2: including the later Remiic, and we also learn as a

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Speaker 2: part of the story that the person who sold the

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Speaker 2: mill to the Spokestack Brothers was the Grand Dragon of

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Speaker 2: the KKK and had intended to come back and slaughter

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Speaker 2: everyone at the club with his crew, but Smoke was

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Speaker 2: ready and able to take everyone out before his death,

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Speaker 2: and as it ends, we see him being able to

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Speaker 2: reunite with Annie and their baby base. We seen okay,

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Speaker 2: and then we have an after math and after the

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Speaker 2: credit scene I guess after a couple of credits scened

321
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Speaker 2: in which we find Sammy all grown up and successful

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Speaker 2: in his music career, played by legendary Bobby Guy, like

323
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,359
Speaker 2: he is a legendary blues and folk singer. So they

324
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:44,840
Speaker 2: were like, come be a part of this, and I love,

325
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Speaker 2: I love. They were giveable to give him his flowers,

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Speaker 2: and there we see Stack and Mary, who is not aged,

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Speaker 2: who were able to survive that night because essentially Smoke

328
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Speaker 2: was like, I'll let you live, just let sam leave

329
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Speaker 2: Sammy alone, let Sammy be, and they had that promise.

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Speaker 2: They celebrated together in which he talks with Sammy and

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Speaker 2: Sammy makes a statement about like that was the best

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Speaker 2: night up until everything went bad, and even though he

333
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,639
Speaker 2: had nightmares about bad night, it was still the best

334
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:17,560
Speaker 2: night of his life, and Stack agrees, saying, yes, for

335
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,159
Speaker 2: a minute, we were free. Such a good scene and

336
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:37,520
Speaker 2: then end scene. Y'all, y'all, just like any Southern gothic novel,

337
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 2: to me, a good one leaves you feeling perplexed, Like

338
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:48,800
Speaker 2: there's this complex feeling of like, Okay, it's bad, but

339
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,480
Speaker 2: it's not bad, Like these all these tragedies have to

340
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,480
Speaker 2: happen and we grow from them, but it's still not

341
00:19:55,520 --> 00:20:00,879
Speaker 2: necessarily a satisfying ending, but a satisfying ending, you know. Yeah,

342
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:05,440
Speaker 2: is that is that feeling? Is that lingering, the haunting

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00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:12,160
Speaker 2: that reps like it's not happy but it's not completely depressing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I agree.

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Speaker 1: I think it's so much of this movie has that

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00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,920
Speaker 1: kind of feel. It has a feel, and a big

347
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 1: part of that feel is you know, we made this

348
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:36,160
Speaker 1: beautiful thing and it was the best night, uh, and

349
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,960
Speaker 1: we were free for that night and then this is

350
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,959
Speaker 1: what happened, right, but kind of remembering what it was

351
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 1: before that. And then I think that having that closing,

352
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:58,240
Speaker 1: because it's it's a post credit scene, everybody, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

353
00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:05,199
Speaker 1: you don't know exactly, is really bittersweet because it's you know,

354
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:12,359
Speaker 1: you've aged in this in this instance, you've aged, but

355
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,160
Speaker 1: you see these people who were in your life, who

356
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:20,879
Speaker 1: have not who have become vampires and who come to

357
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:27,439
Speaker 1: see you, and just having that difference of experience and.

358
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 3: That memory of.

359
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: That night where your lives just went in completely different ways. Yeah,

360
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 1: I just think that's a really powerful message of how

361
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 1: you don't know where, you don't know where your life

362
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 1: is going to take you, and you don't know, like

363
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 1: the people in your life, you don't know what's going

364
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,360
Speaker 1: to happen to them either. And for Sammy, I mean,

365
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 1: because he was physically really wounded, but for him to

366
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 1: continue and to deal with what happened on that night

367
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,479
Speaker 1: that was both a wonderful night and then a really

368
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Speaker 1: horrific night, right right.

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Speaker 2: There's so much to that like and then that's kind

370
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:32,199
Speaker 2: of that level of today just about like joy and

371
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 2: we talked we've talked about the black community really having

372
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,199
Speaker 2: to search for some of the joy, especially at times

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00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,720
Speaker 2: where they feel like they're most persecuted because they were

374
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 2: or oppressed and during this time is that time, so

375
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 2: having to measure the tragedies at the same time finding

376
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 2: their joys where they can. It's like that inner layer

377
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 2: of the constant battle that happens. And we can see

378
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 2: that in so much like all this darkness. There's so

379
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 2: much darkness right now in life and so many so

380
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 2: much bad news and so many bad things, but trying

381
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,919
Speaker 2: to find those joyous moments too, and kind of like

382
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,400
Speaker 2: admitting to those joyous moments but understanding they're still surrounded

383
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 2: by trauma. In struggle as well, I think there's so

384
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 2: much in that. But this movie that again leaves that

385
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 2: haunting so thoroughly that it's it's almost jarring to me

386
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 2: because when I first watched it, I was.

387
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,400
Speaker 3: Like, oh oh, oh oh.

388
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 2: And then I'll watched it again, I was like, oh, yeah, okay, okay.

389
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 2: And then one of the big things that I think

390
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 2: push and pull with the jarring movement is the music.

391
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 2: And this was a big theme of the movie, is

392
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 2: a big part of the movie. It's another character and

393
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 2: driver of the movie, and I think it's something that

394
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 2: we focus. I focused a lot on this because the

395
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: music in itself, like can do a whole change in

396
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 2: the mood in the context of all of that. And

397
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 2: I wanted to go to this NPR article where they

398
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 2: talk about his Blues Wrapper and all of this, and

399
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 2: they write the film, set in nineteen thirty two, revolves

400
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,919
Speaker 2: primarily around ideas of Black spirituality and the music's placed

401
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:15,679
Speaker 2: in Mississippi Delta community's evaluation of righteous and iniquity, their

402
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 2: references to Black Christianity and who do piety and profanity,

403
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 2: and music foundation as a turn toward both salvation and damnation.

404
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 2: The agnostic but faith appreciating narrative plays into this duality

405
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 2: from its opening seconds quote there are legends of people

406
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 2: born with the gift of making music so true it

407
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 2: can pierce the veil between life and death, conjuring experience

408
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 2: from the past and the future. A voice over explains

409
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 2: this gift can bring healing to their communities that also

410
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 2: attracts evil, and having Annie being the voiceover for that

411
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: was perfect because she understands, obviously on a deeper level,

412
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 2: what this looks like and the flashes of what we see.

413
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 2: And I think, and we're going to talk a little bit,

414
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 2: very briefly about the religion aspect, because it's a big

415
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 2: conversation and I think I am and I'm not equipped

416
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 2: to have this conversation because especially when you talk about

417
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:16,200
Speaker 2: the Black community, the enslaved and the colonization with Christianity

418
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 2: and what we've seen in Christianity and the Christian missions

419
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,240
Speaker 2: and all of these aspects, especially when it comes to

420
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 2: the damaging and the overall oppressing of other cultures through

421
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 2: what they would call conversion or mission. So there's just

422
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: a depth level, but the fact that they do have

423
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 2: this back and forth about what does this music look like.

424
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: So when we looked at Blues when it first came out,

425
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 2: it was it was kind of looked down upon because

426
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: having blues meant that you didn't trust Jesus. And though

427
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,520
Speaker 2: you know, Jesus was not a thing until they were

428
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 2: brought to the US at the time, Blues have always

429
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 2: been so trying to mix us, to do together. Is

430
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 2: that deeper conversation the profound a look at culture and

431
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 2: exactly as they did, they brought that culture here and

432
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 2: opened the world to this beauty that is the Blues.

433
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,320
Speaker 2: And they the NPR article specifically talks about the Lows

434
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 2: and they say, you can read the through line of

435
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 2: Sinners in which Sammy, the lone human survivor of a

436
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 2: remixed vampire horde abandonces followed this church to blade the

437
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 2: Blues in Chicago. Despite the horrors, it brings to the

438
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 2: Duke as not just a rejection of religiosity, but an

439
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 2: embrace of the blues sorcery and its continuance as a

440
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 2: sort of cultural necessity honoring the sacrifices that sustained the music.

441
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 2: So again you have that overlapping of music and if

442
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 2: you know, I think in the US, it's hard not

443
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,239
Speaker 2: to know the level of depth where it comes to

444
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 2: music and what that brings. And then also the level

445
00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 2: of depth of music in religion. Like music, music makes

446
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 2: you feel things and it is used that way, whether

447
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 2: it's those moments that you need to be released, so

448
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 2: you sing a praise song because you have to be

449
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 2: thankful or you need to be thankful, or whether it's

450
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 2: that moment of like you use it as a prayer,

451
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,239
Speaker 2: which we've known that as a huge conversation, you use

452
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 2: it as a communication like people you see people doing

453
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 2: praise songs with their hands out with their face lifted

454
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 2: because they really emote through song. Is kind of that

455
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 2: same level. We understand that the history of the blues,

456
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 2: the history of a lot of black folk music how

457
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 2: to do about seeking freedom and being able to communicate

458
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 2: with each other as well. So there's just all overall

459
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 2: being and then that Sammy has taken that route that

460
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 2: he came for like salvation because he made it, but

461
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: then he realized that's not his route, and he goes

462
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 2: to Chicago in the end and become successful and has

463
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 2: that taste of success.

464
00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again, I hope any listener who is listening

465
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 3: to this you've already seen the movie.

466
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:11,719
Speaker 1: But it opens with kind of a flashback. It opens

467
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 1: with Sammy covered in blood, injured, holding a wrecked guitar,

468
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 1: and then we go back from there to see how

469
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: that happened, how that occurred. But I do think when

470
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: we're having conversations about the history of the United States

471
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: and the history of the black community in the United

472
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: States and music and black contributions to music in the

473
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: United States, it like we.

474
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 3: Can't remove the pain, the damage, the like.

475
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: You did all of this work and then it just

476
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 1: got ripped away from you. And so I think that

477
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: is because when they had this kind of beautiful moment

478
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 1: and what felt like a very church like environment to me,

479
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: just like the lighting and the like wood panels and

480
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: all of that stuff, that it got infiltrated because of

481
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: this invitation by the vampires, like somebody let them in

482
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: and for Sammy to show up with all of these

483
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 1: injuries and this broken guitar.

484
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 3: It's just it's really powerful imagery.

485
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean the music is so key throughout

486
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: the whole thing.

487
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 2: Oh and y'all, one of the most haunting scenes is

488
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 2: behind the song I Lie to You sung by Miles Kitten,

489
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 2: and it's performed and it becomes such an interlacing so

490
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 2: many ideals and cultural aspects. There's a lot to be seen.

491
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 2: Like you, I've feel like I've probably watched this movie

492
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 2: now about six times. I have not seen that scene fully.

493
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 2: Like I have not watched that scene fully, even though

494
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 2: I've seen it that many times. The technicality in production, choreography, layout,

495
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: breakdown in historical context is magnificent. It is again breathtaking.

496
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 2: It is almost overwhelming because there's so much to try

497
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 2: to dive into. Actually, this is from an EWT Entertainment

498
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 2: Weekly dot com article, and they write for Centers a

499
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 2: movie that in many ways is about the transcendence of music.

500
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 2: He wanted he being Ryan Coogler, wanted a cinematic representation

501
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 2: of that experience, especially how the experience of an artist

502
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 2: who heils from a particular community comes with a particular

503
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 2: point a view that the audience fully understands they're participating

504
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 2: in this performance in a way that becomes a feedback loop,

505
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 2: the filmmaker explains, And if you've ever been present in

506
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 2: an experience like that, it feels euphoric. For a moment,

507
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 2: you feel so present that you almost feel immortal. It

508
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 2: is like it's this context of like, Okay, this Begat,

509
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 2: this BEGAT this. So if you know anything about the babble,

510
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 2: it is just this continuation of a lineage that is

511
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,959
Speaker 2: a loop that it becomes. And from again from what

512
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: I've read, they had to wait to the last day

513
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 2: of filming to set the fire scene because they set

514
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 2: the thing on fire literally and again it's magical and

515
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 2: haunting because it looks so unique, like what you see.

516
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 2: What you see is the perspective of the vampire remic

517
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 2: of the end because he's seeing this, he is seeing

518
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 2: the future and the like as well, and he sees

519
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 2: the draw That's how it is strong through that fire.

520
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: And back to that article, they say they somehow locked

521
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 2: into the very spirit that drives the scene. For these

522
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 2: characters that had the rotten luck of being born in

523
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty two Mississippi, that's where their adulthood would be

524
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 2: experienced Koogles says, to have their transcendent experience where they

525
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,479
Speaker 2: get to spend time with the people that came before

526
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 2: them and the people that came after them. Even if

527
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 2: they don't know it, they feel it again that connection,

528
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 2: that music, that art, it connects people. And I think

529
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: like he does a great job in bringing that with

530
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 2: having Buddy Guy play that character in Age, like bringing

531
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 2: this legend together with another legend in the making, Miles

532
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: Katon as well as Buddy Guy. Like there's this level

533
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: of loop that we're seeing where they the before and

534
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 2: the after and the beginning, like all these things we

535
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 2: see that loop, that layer of coming together that I

536
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: think he does a great job. And also again giving

537
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 2: flowers where it's due. We've talked about trying to get

538
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 2: flowers before, like it's too late, and this is kind

539
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 2: of that level, like Coogler is a king of doing those.

540
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:35,959
Speaker 2: I feel like he does such a great job in

541
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 2: making sure he brings people in that deserve to be there,

542
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 2: and he makes sure to give the accolades and give

543
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 2: the flowers and give them their credit way before and

544
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: I can't just to see that in the cinematic feel

545
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 2: in such a way that was unexpected, like it was

546
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 2: unexpected the way it was perfectly immersed, the way it

547
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 2: was perfectly blended, and I was like, oh oh oh.

548
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 2: And even with that, adding like the Chinese culture in

549
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 2: representing the Chow characters and how their backgrounds came into

550
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 2: it as well, like who they were in coming into

551
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: this place, everything about that with a cinematic layer also

552
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 2: historical layer is such a unique perspective and so new

553
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 2: in this industry to me.

554
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it does feel very It feels very

555
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: unique because it does kind of turn into a vampire movie.

556
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: It feels like it turns into a vampire movie probably

557
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: two thirds of the way through, and before that it's

558
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: got you know, your Southern gothic something's going on all

559
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: of this, but then this vampire element comes in and

560
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 1: you do have all of these threads of what was

561
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: going on in society at the time, and how they

562
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 1: I really appreciate when creators, writers, directors can hone in

563
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 1: onto who characters are quickly without like too much dialogue,

564
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: and I feel like they did that really well, of

565
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: who who these characters are, what their motivations are, and

566
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: then vampires show up, and how does that?

567
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 3: How does that change things? Does it change things? Correct?

568
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 2: Oh, there's so much. I did have a quote from

569
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 2: Ryan Koogler when he spoke with Indie Wire's podcast Filmmaker

570
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 2: Toolkit about that scene, and it says he said, it's

571
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 2: about that feeling of being at a live performance of

572
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 2: any art when you see a virtual also perform and

573
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 2: you're in the presence of a group of people who

574
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 2: also appreciate the art form but also the context of

575
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 2: it and know where the artist is coming from. They

576
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:06,760
Speaker 2: relate to what's being portrayed, and the feeling of euphoria

577
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 2: becomes like a storm system. It's feedback happening and rippling.

578
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 2: I've had a few of those moments in my life

579
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 2: and you feel immortal, like you are outside of space

580
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: and time for a moment, like there's another presence there

581
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 2: with you. And it's true, like if you like really

582
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 2: get into a song, you really feel that song, that emotion,

583
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 2: it makes you cry, it makes your chill, so like

584
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:30,439
Speaker 2: you were in that moment, there's something that does feel

585
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 2: like it stands still in that moment of like they're

586
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 2: talking to you. Of course, this is kind of like

587
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 2: when we talk about fandoms being developed and having like

588
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 2: this deeper relationship because you really feel that this is

589
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: a little different in that context, but like understanding that

590
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 2: level of music and understanding the depth of blues and

591
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,760
Speaker 2: music on a whole different level. And as Delta says,

592
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 2: Delta Slim says in the scene, he says, blues it

593
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 2: wasn't forced on us like that religion, No, son, We

594
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 2: brought this with us from home. What we do is

595
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 2: sacred and big, and this is going back to the

596
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 2: origins of blues and how significant and important it is.

597
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 2: And during a time where I think the black community

598
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 2: was trying to find their place in the US, especially

599
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 2: in a place that wasn't accepting it isn't accepting of them,

600
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 2: like finding their belief systems, following their religious systems, and

601
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 2: then also remembering their culture like that that level, like

602
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 2: remembering the blues as it was something that they brought

603
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 2: with them, that's inside of them. The music that's like

604
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 2: obviously penetrates everything today. It is that level. I guess

605
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 2: that magic as sacred as big. And I didn't want

606
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 2: to throw in here about the Irish music folk music

607
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 2: because we had that moment, Like my partner and I'm

608
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 2: he is Irish, but I do like one two tree

609
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 2: for five moment that song. That's all I know, that's

610
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 2: all I know. I know, like I was like, but

611
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 2: it is really it tickles my ear in a nice way,

612
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 2: but it is. It's like interesting to note that, just

613
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 2: like in a lot of this, in this context of history,

614
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 2: the Irish folk music and the blues did have a

615
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 2: lot of crossover and collaboration and it was influential to

616
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 2: bluegrass as we know it as well, like the intertwining

617
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,720
Speaker 2: uh the two, and like Remick, I really do feel

618
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 2: like there's all this level of context and conversation, but

619
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: the Irish really were coming into a place of trying

620
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 2: to find their own place in a nation that was

621
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 2: like nah, we don't want you either have Yeah, yeah,

622
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 2: at that point in time and in this level of

623
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,760
Speaker 2: growing and bringing their own culture and their folk music

624
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 2: and what that meant for them in that level. And

625
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 2: so he represents that and he puts it well and like,

626
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not like them, I'm not like these white,

627
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 2: racist white people. Oh no, no, I'm Irish And that

628
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 2: depth of that I did appreciate that. And yeah, Jack

629
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,640
Speaker 2: O'Connell did a phenomenal job in a song and representing

630
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 2: that as well as the characters who played Joan and Bert.

631
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 2: They both are musicians and so they were brought in

632
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 2: for their talents and that, and they did a beautiful job.

633
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 2: I loved that first folk song they come in about

634
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 2: the pick and Robin Clean.

635
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

636
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:22,240
Speaker 1: I can't I mean, I don't think we can oversay

637
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,919
Speaker 1: the music is so good, yes, in this movie, and

638
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 1: it's both It takes you back to a place in time,

639
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: but it's also.

640
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 3: Haunting in a lot of ways.

641
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 1: Yeah. And when these the vampires are playing these songs,

642
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 1: they're so good, but it's creepy. It's creepy.

643
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. And they lay it out

644
00:38:50,680 --> 00:39:03,919
Speaker 2: that way too. And with that, we wanted dump into

645
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 2: about the cultural differences in racism and the dynamics that

646
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,960
Speaker 2: we don't often see or talk about, or sometimes we

647
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,359
Speaker 2: do talk about, like all these things. It being during

648
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 2: the Jimcrow era. And I did get a lot of

649
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 2: this from Historycantthide dot com because he went in and

650
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 2: had a whole thing about the historical context behind the movie,

651
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 2: and I thought they were really great. But he explains

652
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 2: the Jim Crow era as this Jim Crow refers to

653
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 2: the system of laws and customs enforcing a racial segregation

654
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 2: in the American South from the end of reconstruction eighteen

655
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 2: seventy seven until the Civil rights movement in nineteen fifties

656
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 2: to the nineteen sixties. Now, that is something that the

657
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 2: schools were teaching. I did learn about that in my time,

658
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 2: so I hope it's still happening. Oh Lord have mercy.

659
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 2: But it does talk about this level of segregation, the

660
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 2: legal segregation that we saw, and I don't know if

661
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 2: it started to play out again or whatever in that

662
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 2: time and what that meant. You could see it in

663
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 2: the scenes other than going shopping. And I know there's

664
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 2: been a lot conversation a little more context of the

665
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 2: Chinese shop owners in the South as well as how

666
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 2: who was customers, but the fact that they had two

667
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: separate stores, one was for the white customers and one

668
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 2: for the non white customers, typically black customers. And it

669
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,279
Speaker 2: was an interesting look because it was right across the

670
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:20,959
Speaker 2: street from each other, so kind of like that whole

671
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 2: saying of across the railroad track type of level of

672
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 2: understanding that this is their size, this is our side again,

673
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 2: that Jim Crow segregation level. And then also in which

674
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 2: I believe it was a smoke who said they came

675
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:39,880
Speaker 2: back to the South because it's no different in Chicago.

676
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,720
Speaker 2: It was just instead of plantations, skyscrapers, large buildings there.

677
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 2: He's like, it's better to be with the devil, you know,

678
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 2: in that reference, and knowing that you know what to

679
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 2: expect in the South versus what they expect in what

680
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 2: they say is in the North. And we've kind of

681
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 2: talked about that before, when sure it was better to

682
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 2: technically sure they were the North and fought for the North,

683
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 2: but that did not mean that they had respect or

684
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 2: they had the actual equality that you would think they

685
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:12,360
Speaker 2: would as they played it out in the abolitionist movements.

686
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 2: So that was that big conversation in that understanding of

687
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,800
Speaker 2: what this Jim Crow did for the entirety of the

688
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 2: United States, who was seen as equal, who was seen

689
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 2: as being able to be successful, on how to be successful,

690
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 2: and so it was interesting to see both of that.

691
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 2: And then also speaking about the Chinese American in the South.

692
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 2: It's been interesting is it's been popping up because of centers,

693
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 2: even the histories out there. Not a lot of people

694
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 2: knew about the Chinese community specifically in the South, and

695
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 2: how they kind of came over this way. And I

696
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 2: found it funny because they have I've seen a few videos,

697
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 2: have you anywhere you see old old Chinese people who've

698
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 2: been in Alabama or in Mississippi all having the thick,

699
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 2: big southern accident, And I was like, who are you?

700
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 2: Where did you come from? And They're like, no, We've

701
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 2: been here. This is what we know. This is the

702
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 2: community that we know. And in this conversation, which I

703
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 2: felt like home to me, I don't have that thick

704
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: of an accent, but I definitely have an accent. Like

705
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 2: just recently someone said you are not I thought you

706
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 2: would be essentially telling you that you like white or

707
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 2: not definitely not Asian, but I really did think it's interesting.

708
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 2: So going back to that history, candthide dot com a write,

709
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: Chinese immigrants began arriving in the Mississippi Delta after the

710
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 2: Civil War, initially recruited as plantation labor to replace emancipated

711
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 2: enslaved people. By the early twentieth century, many had established

712
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 2: grocery stores that served a predominantly black clientele, occupying a

713
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,479
Speaker 2: unique middle position in the racial hierarchy of the segregated South.

714
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 2: Neither white nor black Chinese Americans navigated a complex social

715
00:42:54,960 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 2: landscape after facing discrimination, while simultaneously finding economic niches that

716
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 2: allowed for a degree of autonomy. These grocery stores frequently

717
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 2: extended credit to black customers and became important community spaces

718
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: despite the constraints of segregation. Now, I want to go

719
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,720
Speaker 2: ahead and put this in here, because I'm a debbute downer,

720
00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean they weren't racist towards black people. I

721
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 2: think they were. At that point they were all together.

722
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 2: There was a moment of like coming together. But as

723
00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 2: we've seen, there's a lot of level of prejudices that

724
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 2: happened within the communities, the Asian Chinese communities, Asian communities

725
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,439
Speaker 2: with the black communities, and vice versa. In this point, though,

726
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 2: and we've talked about this before, the Asian community has

727
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 2: somewhat been more accepted because of the model minority myth

728
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 2: that was created and perpetuated in order to continue to

729
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 2: oppress black communities. More so, there's this level that we

730
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 2: will never not talk about when in this like we're

731
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 2: not going to say, oh, yay Chinese people, yay Chinese

732
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 2: Americas were all okay in this point, they were really

733
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 2: a good community together and we do celebrate that, but

734
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 2: we have known and seeing that white supremacy still can

735
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: be a little more enticing for communities to try to

736
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 2: reach for and step on others to get to that point.

737
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 2: But I'd loved being able to see representation like that.

738
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 2: I mean, the amount of Asian people who just jump

739
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 2: into this costume play y'all. I've talked about this before,

740
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 2: but the level of representation is so low that you

741
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 2: just reach for anything, and to actually see actual representation

742
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 2: and something as acclaimed as this, like you can't help

743
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:35,320
Speaker 2: them just fall in love.

744
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 3: And love it more.

745
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 2: I did. I also want to give a shout out

746
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 2: to the fact that they brought in the Choctaw nations

747
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 2: as well, and they made sure to differentiate who they were.

748
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 2: That you made sure to use native language like it was.

749
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,759
Speaker 2: It was just pro blip And honestly, I'm like, if

750
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 2: Googler wanted to make a prequel, I believed they're the ones.

751
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 2: I agree, Come on, come on that depth, Like, it's

752
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 2: kind of the same thing as with Annie understanding. Yeah,

753
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 2: having the first understanding of who the vampires were.

754
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:14,240
Speaker 3: Oh, that was like, let's get our garlic. That was amazing.

755
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, but that's what I'm saying, Like she knew

756
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 2: because she was already aware of that world. And I

757
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 2: fully like that Native indigenous people were already aware of

758
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:25,200
Speaker 2: that world because of the depth of understanding of they

759
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 2: knew of the universe, like the dark and the light.

760
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 2: So seeing that, I'm like this, this is the prequel

761
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 2: we want.

762
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

763
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 2: So this is again from the history Can't Hide dot com.

764
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 2: They write the Choctaw are one of the original indigenous

765
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 2: people of southeastern United States, with ancestral lands throughout Mississippi, Alabama,

766
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 2: and Louisiana. Known as sophisticated farmers, skilled craftspeople, and strategic diplomats,

767
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 2: the Chalkdaw developed complex social and religious systems deeply connected

768
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 2: to the land. In the eighteen thirties, most chalk Taw,

769
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 2: or forcibly, relocated to Indian Territory now Oklahoma during the

770
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,080
Speaker 2: Trail of Tears, though some remained in Mississippi. Choctaw spiritual

771
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 2: traditions include beliefs about soul, dualism and powerful entities residing

772
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 2: in natural features, concepts that have influenced regional folklore across

773
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 2: racial boundaries. Again, I loved everything about this. I love

774
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 2: that they were the guardians of the land. I need

775
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 2: this prequel. I don't know if anybody listens to us,

776
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 2: but we need this prequel. Yeah.

777
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 1: No, it was fantastic because the shock do they show

778
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 1: up and they're like.

779
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 3: Hey, it's definitely you shouldn't invite them in this vampire.

780
00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 1: They don't say vampire, but uh, you shouldn't invite them in.

781
00:46:49,200 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 3: Just don't do it. And I kind of love how

782
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 3: they were, like.

783
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 1: It felt that they were protecting the land like a

784
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: lot of Indigenous people protecting the land and protecting.

785
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 3: People. Yeah, I think the prequel should be them. Yeah.

786
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 2: I mean he literally says, we can take care of

787
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 2: him now and protect you. Yes, just tell us he's

788
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 2: here or let us in the type of conversation and

789
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 2: they don't listen because they're not going to listen to Well,

790
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 2: they said it straight right like like they called them

791
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 2: you know everything else, but who they were, And I

792
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 2: think like that level of understanding the land, the dimensions,

793
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 2: that's exactly like any who was in the Hohodoo. Uh,

794
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 2: practice them who are a part of the Choctown Nation,

795
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 2: who understand the land in itself and have been there,

796
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 2: have us been, was established there and still trying to

797
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 2: protect even the people who would want to hurt them.

798
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 2: Like it wasn't an interesting level. But I love that

799
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 2: they that Google and made sure that was a part

800
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 2: of the scene as well, and allowing for their indigenous language.

801
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 2: I love that. I love them. Yeah, there you are.

802
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 2: I think that was such a big part of why

803
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:10,760
Speaker 2: the representation and the love of those types of education,

804
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 2: like on education. It's such a great way put this

805
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 2: as a blip, because this is definitely one of those

806
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 2: moments where we're going to have that philosophical ideal of freedom,

807
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 2: especially during this time, especially for the black community, especially

808
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 2: those who were enslaved or in times of Jim Crow.

809
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,760
Speaker 2: What did that look like? And they put it really

810
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 2: well and like they were never free. Yeah, because if

811
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 2: they were truly free, they would have these opportunities and

812
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 2: not have to guard, not worry about whether they're going

813
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 2: to die, because they were able to celebrate whether they

814
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 2: were they were going to die or be murdered, because

815
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 2: they bought things that they had wanted, trying to survive,

816
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: trying to grow as a community. It was an interesting

817
00:48:56,120 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 2: conversation again with the Smokestack Twins when Preacher Boy trying

818
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 2: to tell him, this is not what you think. If

819
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,759
Speaker 2: you want true freedom, there's an area not too far

820
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 2: from here where they actually do have a land. Go there.

821
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:13,760
Speaker 2: It's still in the South, but they are able to

822
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:17,240
Speaker 2: be able to be alone and do there and prosper.

823
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 2: It's not in Chicago, it's not in the North. It's here.

824
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 2: Like he talks about, if you want freedom, this is

825
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 2: what it should look like in that level of death.

826
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 2: But then you also have this conversation about freedom from religion,

827
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 2: like the secular versus the religious, like his father like

828
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 2: tying him down and saying, if you do these things,

829
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 2: you're going to hell. That ever threat of hell, the

830
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:41,760
Speaker 2: ever that of the devil, the ever threat of being

831
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 2: cast out essentially was also there. So you're not free

832
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,839
Speaker 2: from that, even though he has a passion and he

833
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 2: also has a gift and talent in something that his

834
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 2: father in the religious community, in the Christian religious community,

835
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,720
Speaker 2: would see as evil.

836
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 3: M hmm, yeah, I think that.

837
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 1: I guess kind of the downer now I'm becoming the downer,

838
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 1: is that, you know, the search for freedom in so

839
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 1: many cases is that you have this fleeting moment of it.

840
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: And so they had it at their their kind of

841
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: juke location with the the Twins, and then you have

842
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 1: Sammy with his music who did he went on to continue.

843
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: But but this idea that you have to fight for

844
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 1: it and perhaps it's fleeting, I think is very prevalent

845
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: throughout the film.

846
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 3: And that's interesting to me.

847
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:57,799
Speaker 1: In terms of the vampire aspect, because vampires are immortal

848
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 1: and theory and so to have these things that you

849
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 1: fight for that it might not last forever, but we

850
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: are worth fighting for, right.

851
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 2: And you know what, I didn't explain this, and I

852
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:22,399
Speaker 2: didn't really know about this, and I feel like when

853
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,319
Speaker 2: you come back to the term juke, what it is

854
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 2: and the originations and so essentially the origination of that

855
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 2: word is a gula and if we've now talked about

856
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 2: the Goula Gigee culture much, but it's one of the

857
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 2: indigenous groups that came of the Black community within like

858
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 2: the coastal areas Savannah and South South Carolina, all of

859
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 2: those areas which still very much exists in their cultures

860
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,719
Speaker 2: very much have influenced the Southeast a lot. But it's

861
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 2: actually originated from their word jug or juke, and it

862
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 2: has the meaning of like wicked or rowdy or disorderly.

863
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 2: So essentially this term is what it built into being

864
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:10,280
Speaker 2: a juke joint. This is what the Mississippi Encyclopedia dot

865
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,399
Speaker 2: org writes about it. The origins of the term juke

866
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 2: or juke jo okay remain uncertain. Some scholars again had

867
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,959
Speaker 2: speculated the word derives from the African word juga, meaning

868
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 2: bad or wicked. Well, others believe juke comes from juice. Again,

869
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:27,400
Speaker 2: I've seen more people saying that it was a Golla

870
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 2: die chi term, so back and forth. But it also

871
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 2: describes electric early electric guitars and music players or I

872
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 2: guess it was also called juice boxes that I didn't know.

873
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:42,879
Speaker 2: I know. Apparently really little both old music and it

874
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 2: really kind of popped up again during the nineteen thirties

875
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 2: with this conversation juke joints, which we see as a

876
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 2: reference from like writers like Zora Neil Hurston who apparently

877
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 2: wrote about it in nineteen thirty four. But they were

878
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 2: apparently appropriate previous basis, so they weren't like something they

879
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 2: built up. They just kind of got there and they're

880
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 2: like they set it up there. Essentially, they're kind of

881
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 2: like the mill they set it up to be a

882
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 2: juke joined. So there's a lot of like depth and

883
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:20,320
Speaker 2: then soul even in that word alone, and kind of

884
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,400
Speaker 2: a descriptor of what they were doing having a wicked

885
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:25,720
Speaker 2: time in that music world.

886
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: Yes, well, and I also love I think the title

887
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:37,600
Speaker 1: is very good because of when you're talking about sinners

888
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: for a lot of us, for a lot of people

889
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,880
Speaker 1: who grew up in the Western Christianity world, that means

890
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 1: a specific thing. And I think that they did a

891
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 1: really good job of exploring that idea of what the

892
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 1: sin is. And I really really I know I said

893
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:08,360
Speaker 1: it earlier, but I really think that the setting looks

894
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:13,280
Speaker 1: to me like a church, It really does, and.

895
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:14,440
Speaker 3: So having.

896
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: And there's just just a lot of things going on.

897
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:23,960
Speaker 1: There's like sex, and there's sexual tension, and there's drinking,

898
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: and there's I guess music that could be considered like rowdy.

899
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 3: So I appreciated that they.

900
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,719
Speaker 1: All of that, all of that, and then to have

901
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: I really love that they have Annie come in and

902
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:53,359
Speaker 1: be respected listen to of Hey, no, this here's what

903
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 1: we're gonna do. Yeah, this is what we need to do.

904
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 1: And I don't know, there was just a part of

905
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: me that I hadn't seen something so quick to be

906
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 1: like no, she's right, let's just yeah, no.

907
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 2: I love that sensibility. And she was authoritative, like not

908
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 2: just like I don't though, guys, she was authoritative. She

909
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 2: made I'm telling y'all love her character and she deserves

910
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:34,319
Speaker 2: all the awards. Interestingly, I wanted to go back real

911
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 2: quick in this article about the juke joints because I

912
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 2: think this is really important in historical contexts. So they

913
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 2: say the volutability of juke joints developed out of subversive

914
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:47,280
Speaker 2: nature of early blues music itself. During slavery, African Americans

915
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:50,240
Speaker 2: were not permitted together. In some cases, dancing and singing

916
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 2: also were not allowed. Despite these constraints, music played an

917
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 2: important part for the community. As blues music game popularity

918
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 2: in the Jim Crow South, juke joints became safe spaces

919
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:04,759
Speaker 2: for African Americans to gather without white supervision. So that's

920
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 2: that important context of like not allowing the white people

921
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 2: in there, like you got your own thing, let us

922
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:12,560
Speaker 2: have this, and it is it was subversive. It's kind

923
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 2: of that level of like again, a little bit of sinning,

924
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 2: a little bit against the rules, y'all won't let us

925
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 2: do this? So let us have this and the juke

926
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 2: joints became a thing of rebellion essentially, but also of

927
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 2: celebration obviously. And again like in that level of like

928
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 2: if there was a I guess the verses in that

929
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 2: level of like sin versus good faith versus evil type

930
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,000
Speaker 2: of conversation, like we have to talk about the religious

931
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:43,720
Speaker 2: overtones in this conversation again, the overlapping of the different

932
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 2: views of the time between Christianity, who do the indigenous beliefs?

933
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 2: Like he layered these conversations and bulliees. He had any

934
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 2: over here, he had the Father over here, and he

935
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 2: even had the truck jab Nation coming through here and

936
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 2: making sure that it was understood. This time was chaos,

937
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 2: especially for a community to try to establish home in

938
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 2: an area that would didn't feel safe, in a place

939
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 2: in the situation that wasn't comfortable. But this is what

940
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 2: they could do because they weren't giving options, like there

941
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 2: was no other choice. But again with that comes the

942
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 2: layer of adapting to where you are, so Christianity versus

943
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 2: remembering some of the old ways, whether like beay, I

944
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 2: guess we know the background of whodoo does come from

945
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 2: African culture and that level and how it is a

946
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:41,480
Speaker 2: part of this It's a religious spiritual belief outside of

947
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:44,520
Speaker 2: what Christianity has made it look like. You know. It's

948
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 2: this conversation. And there's an article written in Religious news

949
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 2: dot Com about this movie and in this conversation, and

950
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 2: they write this, Any's function as a spiritual mediator invites

951
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 2: the audience into a discourse on a black spiritual understanding

952
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 2: of protection, life, death. This is shown in her confrontation

953
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 2: with a vampire, her explanation of what a vampire is,

954
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 2: and her pleas to kill her. She has betten so

955
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 2: her soul can be reunited with her daughter. These scenes

956
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 2: and others position hoodoos and cexral framework as a lens

957
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,520
Speaker 2: that views death not as an end, but as a

958
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 2: transitional state. As Sinners examines the poorest boundaries between the

959
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 2: sacred and the secular and entanglement of religion and black identity,

960
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:28,720
Speaker 2: it offers a profound cultural contribution in this much needed

961
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 2: moment in the US. Sinners sets a new standard for

962
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 2: horror genre and begins a new chapter within the history

963
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 2: of black horror films. Like it does it's this context.

964
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 2: Like I love that they wrote about this because I

965
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 2: know I've seen discourse back and forth, and there's a

966
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 2: lot of black religious figures who like the movie and

967
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 2: who see it as is, and then there's a lot

968
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 2: of religious figures who are upset as some of this portrayal.

969
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:56,560
Speaker 2: So back and forth for sure, and this conversation in

970
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:00,840
Speaker 2: itself is such an important conversation and piece a culture

971
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 2: about where it stood. She did not see who do

972
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 2: was not something that said this is evil. It was like,

973
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 2: this is a transition, and I know that I need

974
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 2: to be well. She said, vampires are evil, but let's

975
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 2: go ahead with that. She did say that, but the

976
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:16,920
Speaker 2: human experience in after life was seen as different and

977
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 2: also different from what people see as heaven, you know,

978
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:23,120
Speaker 2: in that context as well, although the belief of heaven

979
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:26,040
Speaker 2: is not as important as the belief of hell in

980
00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 2: this context of Christianity, I think, I maan, I won't

981
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 2: put that there, but it was a great conversation piece,

982
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 2: and that because there has to be to me, especially

983
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 2: as a person who as a Korean that came into

984
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 2: the US into a very staunchly white Christian church that

985
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 2: had a lot of set of rules that also looking

986
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 2: back on my own culture that remember some of the

987
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 2: Buddhists ancestral beliefs that was incorporated because they also were Christian,

988
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 2: but they were colonized Christians as we know. So seeing

989
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 2: those different aspects and to deal with that's like Christian

990
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 2: trauma versus cultural understanding and understanding where Korean is in

991
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 2: ast Asian and Asian cultures were in who they believed

992
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:15,760
Speaker 2: and how that changed throughout their history as well. Like

993
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:18,240
Speaker 2: it's interesting to note like you have to try to

994
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:23,240
Speaker 2: balance those like you need to figure out how to

995
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:29,040
Speaker 2: equally understand I guess without feeling guilt because there's this

996
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 2: when you raised in one way, when you raised in

997
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 2: a colonized Christian atmosphere called nie Christian beliefs and that's

998
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,600
Speaker 2: what you banked your life on as a child, to

999
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 2: growing into this and being like, wait, that doesn't make

1000
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:44,880
Speaker 2: sense because culturally, this is not where I was. You know,

1001
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 2: this was not my beginning, This is not my culture's beginning.

1002
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 2: So how did this overlap and who is this benefiting?

1003
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:54,040
Speaker 2: So it is it's this level of conversation that has

1004
01:00:54,080 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 2: to be had when you confront history, your history, your

1005
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:03,840
Speaker 2: your culture versus the colonized state of today.

1006
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:10,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's so much to be said about this movie,

1007
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 1: it's amazing because that, you know, you could summarize it

1008
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 1: very simply as, oh, it's a kind of a time

1009
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:25,040
Speaker 1: piece with vampires in it, but it does have so

1010
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 1: much going on and so much that it's talking about

1011
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: in terms of race and class and women. And I

1012
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 1: do think it's interesting about the twins because you have

1013
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:44,600
Speaker 1: the kind of two different ways that they interact with

1014
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 1: the world and the two different ways of what happens

1015
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 1: to them.

1016
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 3: So there's just a lot of a lot to be said.

1017
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:51,959
Speaker 3: And I think that.

1018
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:56,880
Speaker 1: The fact that it's been so awarded, the fact that

1019
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 1: it was like one of the biggest things I saw

1020
01:01:59,000 --> 01:01:59,919
Speaker 1: at Dragon.

1021
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:04,480
Speaker 2: Call, yes Halloween was people. And you know, before I forget,

1022
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 2: I'm missing the biggest context here, the usage of vampires

1023
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 2: as an allegory and this time frame. Yes, when we

1024
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:14,720
Speaker 2: talk about colonization, when we talk about who is the

1025
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 2: blood sucker, who is like taking and stealing from people,

1026
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 2: who is like masquerading as the good people versus you know,

1027
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 2: like I'll heal you, I'll do these things where you

1028
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 2: come to mind, like if we talk about like missionaries

1029
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:31,600
Speaker 2: in their context of like bringing religion to areas that

1030
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:34,960
Speaker 2: didn't need it. Yeah, like they to steal culture, like

1031
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,960
Speaker 2: we talked about vampires, like to steal other cultures like

1032
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 2: culture vultures, culture vampires. This is it, Like I I

1033
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:45,560
Speaker 2: don't know how bypassed that. There's so much to this,

1034
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:48,520
Speaker 2: but yeah, that's the huge allegory in itself for this

1035
01:02:48,680 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 2: entirety of the horror portion.

1036
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:55,920
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely that, the whole blood sucking part and the whole.

1037
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, gotta invite.

1038
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 2: I gotta take his music. I gotta take music. I

1039
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:01,640
Speaker 2: need his music.

1040
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, well, we had a lot to say about this.

1041
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 1: Obviously we could keep going. We shall see what award

1042
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: season brings, but I think I think they're gonna get

1043
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 1: some some awards. But listeners, if you have any thoughts,

1044
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 1: please let us know. You can email us at Hello

1045
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 1: at Stuffannever Told You dot com. You can find us

1046
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 1: on blue Sky at mom Stuff podcast, or on Instagram

1047
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: and TikTok at stuff I've Never Told You. We're also

1048
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 1: on YouTube. We have some merchandise at Cotton Bureau if

1049
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 1: you would like some, and we have a book you

1050
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:46,520
Speaker 1: can get where you get your books. Thanks as always too,

1051
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 1: our super produced Christina, our executive producer Maya, and our

1052
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 1: contributor Joey, Thank you and thanks to you for listening.

1053
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 1: Stuff Never Told You is ructure by Heart Radio. For

1054
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:57,760
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out

1055
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:00,480
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1056
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