1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: I would like to bring out onto the stage America's 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: favorite X noun skateboard riding, houseboat, dwelling, nurturing, sweet, adorable, thoughtful, 3 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: thought provoking, anti racist comic, Miss Kelly Dunham. 4 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 2: From a Cocoa Punch and iHeartRadio. This is the Turning America. 5 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:25,560 Speaker 3: Lance. 6 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 2: There are still four episodes left this season, but today 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 2: we have a bonus for you. It's a little different. 8 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 3: So like most of you, I used to be a nun, 9 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 3: very relatable. That's very relatable and stand up comedy to 10 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 3: get up on starts to talk about how you used 11 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 3: to be a nun and people, you know, like sometimes 12 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 3: in straight clubs, people will be like, oh yeah, whatever 13 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 3: system Mary Bulldyke. But I used to be Ann with 14 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 3: the outfit and everything. 15 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 2: Uh So, you know Kelly Dunham. For previous episodes, she's 16 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 2: a former sister who's missed. Told her she walked like 17 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: her shoulders were angry. But there's so much more to 18 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 2: Kelly's story, all these twists and turns. 19 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 3: All of my happiest childhood memories were learning words. 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 4: I remember asking my mom what does that bill? 21 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 3: I mean? She goes, well, when do you feel like 22 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 3: you both love something and maybe you don't love it 23 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,119 Speaker 3: so much all I wants and I, oh, my god, 24 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 3: that's exactly how I feel about you. 25 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 4: What does my mom had plants in here? You guys 26 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 4: are oh. 27 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 2: One of our producers, Emily Foreman, talked with Kelly about 28 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 2: her life before the Missionaries of Charity and after about 29 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 2: her faith, about her comedy. 30 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 5: So I just want to go back, back, back, back, 31 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:55,559 Speaker 5: back back. Uh, what's the first joke you ever told? 32 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 2: But mostly about her complicated relationship with her mom. 33 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:01,559 Speaker 4: So I'm the youngest of seven. 34 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 3: My mom had had six other kids with as many 35 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 3: alcoholic husbands, which I think is really impressive to find 36 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 3: that one or two, but a number of alcoholics. Sometimes 37 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 3: you just have our types, which you know when you 38 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 3: think about life. Okay, so what the thought process like? 39 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 3: You know, my last five marriages to alcoholics ended in 40 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 3: financial ruin. But I've got the right alcoholic. So I 41 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 3: really I appreciate my mom's level of hope. 42 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 2: So that's a rural Wisconsin accent, and you hear in 43 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 2: Kelly's voice she grew up there hard work and not 44 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 2: talking about feelings with the family code. So was Dale Carnegie, 45 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 2: the author of How to win friends and influence people. 46 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 2: It was an incredibly popular book, and Kelly's dad made 47 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 2: the books philosophy part of life at home. 48 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 3: Well, first, my dad would frequently mornings. He would come down. 49 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 3: We had to be sitting at the table at six am, 50 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,119 Speaker 3: and he would slap his hand on the table and say, 51 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 3: acting through the ass. Second, you'll be enthusiastic, and most 52 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 3: people are just about as happy as they make up 53 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 3: their mind they're gonna be, which she would attribute to 54 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 3: Dale Carnegie and sometimes to Abraham Lincoln, although I've since 55 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 3: heard that it was Dale Carnegie quoting Abraham Lincoln. But 56 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 3: it doesn't sound like Abraham Lincoln because Abraham Lincoln a 57 00:03:14,919 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 3: clinical depression. I bet he did not say that most 58 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 3: people are just about as happy as they make up 59 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 3: their minds are going to be in the middle of 60 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 3: the Civil War. You know, I have a feeling that's 61 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 3: not true, but it's a good story anyway. Can imagine how. 62 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 2: Kelly says her dad would run Dale Carnegie days and 63 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 2: if you weren't following the b positive ethos, you'd have 64 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 2: to go to bed early. She says, there are a 65 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: lot of rules like that. He was strict, but the 66 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: first time Kelly made her dad laugh, she knew she'd 67 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 2: found an important tool. You could say her comedy career 68 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 2: started in that moment. 69 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 3: Being funny was like both a way to deflect things 70 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 3: and a way to have positive attention. 71 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 5: So whose attention were you hoping to capture? 72 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 3: I mean maybe my mom's. Like hearing my mom laugh 73 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 3: was really a nice, nice thing, you know. I mean 74 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 3: also because my mom had a hard life. She had 75 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 3: all these kids, she had like these useless husbands of 76 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 3: varying degrees. You know, she had a hard life. So 77 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 3: I wanted her to I don't know, I wanted her 78 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 3: to be able to laugh. 79 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 5: You know when you were a kid, were you aware 80 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 5: of life being hard for her? Then? 81 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 3: Only glimpses of it, especially when I was younger. I 82 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:33,359 Speaker 3: think her marriage to my dad also deteriorated as time passed, 83 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 3: but she was I really don't think I saw her 84 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 3: without her makeup till I was like in third or 85 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 3: fourth grade. Like, she was always perfectly made up and 86 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 3: perfectly put together. You know, she was a person who 87 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 3: that was important to her, and she really maintained I 88 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 3: don't know if it's a facade. She also didn't want 89 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 3: us to be like frightened, and you know, she wanted 90 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 3: us to feel secure. I think so. I think that 91 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 3: I didn't necessarily know it, maybe felt it somewhere because 92 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 3: I was a very sensitive kid. So what my parents 93 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 3: needed at that time, they needed like a cheerful, very 94 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 3: midwestern kid, right, what they got was me, and I 95 00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 3: came into the world screaming as a fully formed, whining, 96 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 3: coastal sensitive queer. 97 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 4: I was the kind of kid that when it rained, do. 98 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 3: You know why when I was missed the bus when 99 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 3: it rained, because I would be picking up the worms 100 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 3: off the pavement and putting the mac on the grass 101 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 3: so they. 102 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 4: Wouldn't get running out for it, like in a city. 103 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 4: That's like, Okay, did you believe. 104 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 5: In God as a little kid. 105 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, very much so. In fact, I can remember there's 106 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 3: this Bill Gaither song It's God Loves to talk to 107 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 3: little boys while They're fishing. It's a very sweet song, 108 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 3: and I can remember when my mom used to play it, 109 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 3: and I was, you know, thought myself more as a 110 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 3: little boy than a little girl. But I would go 111 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 3: to like one of the ponds, you know, and like 112 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:01,840 Speaker 3: just take a stick with a string on it and 113 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 3: like throw it in there, and I was like, Okay, 114 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 3: now God's going to talk to me. Well, I guess 115 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 3: not out loud, okay. But I have this memory of 116 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 3: my grandmother when we were staying with her. She and 117 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 3: my grandpa built a cottage on towards Lake This this 118 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 3: beautiful lake in northern Michigan that has like this crystal 119 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 3: blue water, so it's spring fed anyway. So we'd go 120 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 3: and stay with them during parts of the summer. And 121 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 3: one time I was sleeping in the room where my 122 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 3: grandma's because you know, there's a lot of kids there, 123 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 3: so we were all like kind of doubled up, and 124 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 3: I was sleeping in the room with my grandma, and 125 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 3: I guess she couldn't sleep, and so she was praying 126 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 3: aloud about all of us. And then I remember she 127 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 3: came to me and I was like, oh, I gotta 128 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 3: live really still, and you know, she was praying for me, like, oh, 129 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 3: you know, help Kelly to know how much Kelly Sue, 130 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 3: as my family calls me, help Kelly Sue to know 131 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 3: how much you love her, and some other stuff too. 132 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 3: I don't remember this, but I was like, whatever happens, 133 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 3: my grandmother's really praying for me, so maybe I'll be okay. 134 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 3: You know. I was like probably when I was eight 135 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 3: or not, were you worried you weren't going to be okay? Well, 136 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 3: I think there was like obviously I didn't fit in 137 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 3: with my family, right. I was like my parents really 138 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 3: tried hard with the gender stuff, like I was so 139 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 3: clearly like a little boy growing up, you know, and 140 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 3: they tried really hard. But also like the world was 141 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 3: against that. You know, even now the world is against that. 142 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 3: So doing better. But yeah, and also they were worried 143 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 3: for me, Like I think they thought that the world 144 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 3: was going to crush me, you know, but they just 145 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 3: didn't know what to do. It was like who gave it? 146 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 3: You know, it was like somebody gave them a wolverine 147 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 3: to you know, to race. What do we need a wolverine? 148 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 3: We don't know. 149 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 5: And so so you moved from Wisconsin to Florida, and 150 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 5: at this time, what's what's your faith situation? 151 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 3: So my mom wasn't you know, when we were little, 152 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 3: was not a Christian, but she became a born again Christian. 153 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 3: And then when we moved to Florida, I went to 154 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 3: my mom sent us to a Christian school, and everyone 155 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 3: was like, oh, okay, like this is a queer kid 156 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 3: in the making, Let's see what we can do. And 157 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 3: I got actually really involved in my church, and you know, 158 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:27,119 Speaker 3: I would say that I was interested in what God 159 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 3: wanted for me in my life. And I felt like, oh, well, 160 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:32,760 Speaker 3: if there's a God, there must be some reason for me. 161 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 3: You know, I don't really know what it is, but 162 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 3: there must be, like some reason that I exist, and 163 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 3: there's something I'm supposed to do. When I was in 164 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 3: high school and most of my peers were drinking zeema 165 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 3: it was the eighties and giving each other what I 166 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 3: now know to be was horrible blowjobs. I was attending 167 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 3: church three times a week, wearing a no Surfing in 168 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 3: Hell t shirt and asking complete strangers, excuse me, have 169 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 3: you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior. I was 170 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 3: a big bananas born again Christian and my mom was 171 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 3: a big bananas born again Christian, so that made her 172 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 3: really happy, except for I was also a big, huge, 173 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 3: lifelong tomboy, and that made her very sad. 174 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 2: One day, Kelly came home and found a note from 175 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 2: her mom. It said, this sounds like something you would love, 176 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 2: and there was a glossy brochure for a missionary training 177 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: program the Lord's boot Camp. Kelly looked at all the 178 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 2: pictures of smiling teenagers and thought. 179 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 3: Oh my god, this looks like something I would love. 180 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 3: When I arrived at the Lord's boot Camp, it was 181 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 3: essentially an unimproved Florida wetlands and there was we washed 182 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 3: our clothes by hand in sulfur water we pumped. And 183 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,959 Speaker 3: also the place that we were supposed to like wash up, 184 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 3: they called it a God's bathtub, was just this little 185 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 3: area of the swamp that was attached to another area 186 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 3: of the swamp with this tiny little drainage ditch, and 187 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 3: in the other area of the swamp were two alligators. 188 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,959 Speaker 3: When we questioned our leaders about it, they were like, now, 189 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 3: do you really think that an alligator? Those alligators are 190 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 3: gonna eat five hundred teenagers? And I don't really think 191 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 3: any of us thought they were gonna eat five hundred teenagers. 192 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 3: But doesn't even one seem like a lot. 193 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 2: One of the main features of the camp was an 194 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 2: obstacle course. They'd run it at five am every morning. 195 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 2: There is a series of physical challenges based on biblical themes, 196 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: all designed to help them become better disciples. 197 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 3: The last obstacle in the obstacle course was just called 198 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 3: the wall, and it was a series of walls, and 199 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 3: they each were painted with something we would have to 200 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 3: get over in order to effectively serve Jesus. 201 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 4: It started. 202 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 3: With lust, and then pride and then gluttony, and the 203 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 3: last wall was sexual confusion. 204 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 2: When they weren't running an obstacle course, they took classes 205 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 2: in how to tie steel, lay bricks, run power tools, 206 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 2: even mix concrete by hand, all in the service of 207 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 2: learning how to build God's kingdom. 208 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 3: I was having a fantastic time. It was an entire 209 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 3: summer of being a tomboy, and I returned home with 210 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 3: this newfound zeal, also with a new haircut. I had 211 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 3: a spiral perm and I had also attempted to bleach 212 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 3: my hair surfer blonde with actual bleach, which meant by 213 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 3: the end of the summer I couldn't even get a 214 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 3: comb through it. So one of my fellow team members 215 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 3: took a razor and off almost all the hair on 216 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 3: the sides and a lot of the hair on top, 217 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 3: which of course leaving me a rat tail in back. 218 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 3: And I looked fantastic when I walked onto my mom's 219 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 3: front porch, dragging my stinky backpack. I said, Mom, don't 220 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 3: I look like a new person in Christ And she said, 221 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 3: you look a lot the same. So the teen Missions 222 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 3: thing is like a general evangelical thing, but it was 223 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 3: being used as like a de facto conversion camp, like 224 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 3: my mom had hoped that I would come home, you know, changed. 225 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 3: I mean, they had these classes on like from Grubby 226 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 3: to Grace and God's Gentlemen, which now I realize were 227 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 3: like gender appropriateness classes. It was like, you know, just 228 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 3: like the world's toughest summer camp. It was like it 229 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 3: was like if the missionaries of charity around a fucking 230 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 3: summer camp. That's what it was like. 231 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 5: So who did she want you to be? 232 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe her, you know, like I think 233 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 3: she was worried. She never thought of me is like 234 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,199 Speaker 3: a mask on female. She thought of me as like 235 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 3: an ugly female, right. And my mom was a very 236 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 3: beautiful person. She was a very attractive person, and that 237 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 3: helped her in life. She knew how to use it. 238 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,080 Speaker 3: She knew how to use that attractiveness and it was 239 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 3: her kind of also, her kind of her stick, you know. 240 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 3: And I can remember watching my mom put on her 241 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 3: makeup her whole life. Like I've watched her put out 242 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 3: her makeup and talked to her while she put on 243 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 3: her makeup. I mean, even the smell of makeup like 244 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 3: makes me think of my mom, you know. 245 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 5: And so what were you searching for then in joining 246 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 5: the MCS. 247 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 3: Like I, you know, I was looking for a life 248 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 3: that made sense. 249 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 5: And what did your mom think of you joining? 250 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 3: I think, you know, she wanted me to have health insurance, 251 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 3: you know, Like, so she was a little bit like, Okay, 252 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 3: you know. 253 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 2: So you already know. Kelly joined the MCS and it 254 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 2: didn't work out, But what did her life look like 255 00:13:52,520 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 2: after she left? Kelly was incredibly impressed by the Missionaries 256 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,280 Speaker 2: of Charity when she first encountered them. She admired their 257 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 2: hard work, and she thought she'd found her community. She 258 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 2: converted to Catholicism, joined the order, but found she wasn't 259 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 2: welcomed like other sisters. Maybe some of it was her 260 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 2: sense of humor, maybe it was her appearance or her 261 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 2: angry shoulders. One sister described her as scary and in 262 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 2: the end, not fitting in took a toll on her physically. 263 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 2: She left flunked out as she puts it. 264 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was so sad when I laugh, you know, 265 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 3: because I was like, all right, well do you guys 266 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 3: think this is working out? And they're like, let us 267 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 3: think about it. No, you know what I mean, Like 268 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 3: everyone else that left, they were like begging them to stay. 269 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 3: Not me, they were like bye. And I remember or 270 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 3: my mom was with my sister when she picked me up. 271 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 3: She was like, you seem like you're grieving, like that 272 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 3: was the word she used. And I was like, well, 273 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 3: first of all, it's like this big dramatic goodbye, I'm off. 274 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 4: To marry Jesus. Goodbye. 275 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 3: Oh hi, I'm back now, you know what I mean. Like, 276 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 3: so first it was like kind of anti climactic, but 277 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 3: it wasn't even just that. It was just like it 278 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 3: just felt like it just felt like you're here, Oh here, Jesus, 279 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 3: here is my life. I give it to you, and 280 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 3: Jesus is like smack. Everybody watched your dumb gift of 281 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 3: your dumb life, you know. 282 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 2: After she left the MCS, she started nursing school, joined 283 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 2: a softball team, and spent time with the Catholic Worker Movement, 284 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 2: a progressive faith based group, and she was talking to 285 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 2: a friend there one day. 286 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 3: And she was like, Kelly, like, I know people who 287 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 3: are trying to suppress their sexual orientation and I watched 288 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 3: them not be able to love the people around them 289 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 3: the way they should because that's where all their energy 290 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 3: is going. And I was like, you know what, that's true, 291 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 3: and I've seen that a lot, and that's not what 292 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 3: I want. Like, if I really believe in love, if 293 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 3: I think that love is something that changes lives and 294 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 3: helps people, then I just have to be myself. 295 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 4: Okay. 296 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 3: So I was raised a strict evangelical Christian and when 297 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 3: I came out to my mom, she ripped up my 298 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 3: birth certificate and sent it to me. 299 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I was complaining about it to my therapist. 300 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 3: So I'm like, oh, that was so passive aggressive, and 301 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 3: she's like, no, killing that was aggressive, assive. So I 302 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 3: took it to the countercler's office and he looked at 303 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 3: me and then looked at the pieces and looked at 304 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 3: me and then looked at the pieces and he thought 305 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 3: for a minute, and he said, we get a lot 306 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 3: of this from people who look like you, which tells 307 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 3: you my mom was not as original as she thought 308 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 3: she was. My mom would say that that is not 309 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 3: what happened. Different narrative. My mom was a dramatic person, 310 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 3: you know. It was a very dramatic reaction, like okay. Also, 311 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 3: even when she sent it to me, I was like, 312 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,640 Speaker 3: this doesn't You can send me my birth certificate all 313 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 3: you want. It doesn't make me not your kid, you 314 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 3: know what I mean? Like, that's not how that works, 315 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 3: you know. And we didn't really have a relationship for 316 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 3: a long time, Like I went long periods of time 317 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 3: without seeing her. I think it didn't really even become 318 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 3: comedy early in my comedy career because it was still 319 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 3: so unresolved. I think it was still to raw and 320 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 3: me for other people to laugh at it. 321 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 2: Kelly met Heather at the Newark Airport Hotel during a 322 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:40,439 Speaker 2: queer conference. They both went to Christian high school. They 323 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 2: both knew all of the words to the chorus of 324 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 2: the Trumpet of Jesus, and that was that they started 325 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:50,719 Speaker 2: dating long distance. At the time, Heather wasn't remission from 326 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: ovarian cancer. Within the first six months of their dating, 327 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 2: it came back. Heather would call Kelly to get through 328 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 2: the night, to keep her distracted with stories and jokes 329 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 2: until she could take her next dose. Of a heavy painkiller. 330 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 3: It became clear that she was going to die, you know, 331 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 3: maybe not right away, but eventually. Like this wasn't a 332 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 3: long term relationship, you know, and Heather struggled at first, 333 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 3: like she was like, well, who starts a relationship when 334 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 3: they're so late in life? You know, it just doesn't 335 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 3: seem like it follows the rule book, like she you know, 336 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 3: I think she didn't know if I was going to 337 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 3: be able to stick it into the end. I knew 338 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 3: I was going to be able to stick in to 339 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 3: the end. I knew what I'd been through, you know, 340 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 3: But there was something really beautiful about being able to 341 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 3: be the right person at the right time. 342 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 4: That was. 343 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 3: In the same way that like the mission of the 344 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 3: charity just felt like, oh, I'm like, oh, this is 345 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 3: what I'm supposed to be doing, this is this is 346 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,640 Speaker 3: I'm answering this call. I felt like I was answering 347 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 3: the call. We kind of try to have sense of 348 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 3: humor about it or in the house. I mean, I'm 349 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 3: a standup comic and she was a total smart ass. 350 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 3: So it was the two of us, Like, for example, 351 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:00,439 Speaker 3: one day when she was really she had been on 352 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 3: chemo for a long time, she wasn't feeling that well, 353 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 3: and I called her from the supermarket and I said, 354 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 3: is there anything okay ring you? And this is a 355 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 3: long silence, and she said, yeah, how about. 356 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 4: A quarter pound of a Will to Live? 357 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 3: Oh god wine. So I was like, well, she's going there. 358 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 3: I'm gonna go there too. And I was like, oh, honey, 359 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 3: you know how it is. I'm gonna Trader Joe's and 360 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:37,640 Speaker 3: they only had organic and now they're all out. 361 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 4: To just write that. She came back. She's like hot, damn. 362 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,479 Speaker 2: Kelly calls the Day How the Died Pudding Day, how 363 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 2: they chose to end her life, surrounded by chosen family 364 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 2: with a lethal dose of medication mixed into a pudding cup. 365 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 2: All this time through the real relationship had There's Illness 366 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 2: nursing school comedy sets, Kelly's relationship with her mom remained 367 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 2: strained until her stepfather's dementia became worse and she flew 368 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 2: home to help. He was a retired army colonel and 369 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 2: everyone still called him the colonel, And so most people. 370 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 4: When they developed dementia, they forget. 371 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 3: The names of their kids or where they live, or 372 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 3: you know, they're most fun childhood memories. That is not 373 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 3: what happened to the colonel. The colonel forgot. He was 374 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 3: a jerk, I think, because he forgot where the scotch was. 375 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 3: So I went to my mom's home and helped her 376 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:37,360 Speaker 3: sent up hospice. 377 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 4: And the colonel was lovely Timmy. 378 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 3: It was like, oh color, I just I love your 379 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 3: I love your haircut, soldier, I love the ultimate compliment, I. 380 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 4: Love your haircuts. Sold her. That's oh man, that's fantastic. Ah. 381 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,360 Speaker 4: And we thought that he might not make it until Christmas. 382 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 3: And he was really so you know, cognitively impaired at 383 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 3: that point that he couldn't even follow a sigcom. So 384 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 3: my mom loot the christ this tree and he asked 385 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 3: her just to turn off the lights, and he just 386 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 3: watched the tree, and every so often he would say, 387 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:05,920 Speaker 3: that's a heck of a tree. 388 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 4: Ads, that's a heck of a tree. 389 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 3: And so I would sit with my mom watch her 390 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 3: as she would put on bakeup, and I wanted to 391 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 3: tell her it was gonna be okay, but I knew 392 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 3: it wasn't, and so. 393 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 4: I just sat with her. 394 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 3: I don't know something really changed that year. We just 395 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 3: talked about our lives and you know, kind of what 396 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 3: was important in life and what wasn't and not having 397 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 3: any regrets, and it healed in a way that I 398 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 3: had never thought was possible. So the colonel died a 399 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 3: few days before Christmas, and when people came to drop 400 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 3: off food and say, you know, send their condolence, says 401 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 3: my Mom's response was, this is my daughter, Kelly. 402 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 4: She's also a widow. She lost her spouse as well. 403 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 5: What's a moment that happened that you would have never 404 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,919 Speaker 5: expected to. 405 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 3: Have had she came. She came to watch me perform 406 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 3: at the Stonewall Inn in June. 407 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 2: The story of Kelly's mom at the historic Stonewall Inn 408 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 2: in a moment. 409 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 4: All right, so my mom. 410 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 3: Nine years I've been performing, she has never seen me perform. 411 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 3: You know where my mom wanted to come see me 412 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 3: perform in the middle of June on the thirtieth anniversary 413 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 3: of Stonewall at the Stonewall Inn. The gayest thing ever, right, 414 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,439 Speaker 3: is the gayest thing I've ever done. Guess who I 415 00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 3: was opening for? Lenny Breedlove. Lenny Breedlove Dude performance artists, 416 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 3: queer performance artist. Now you remember Lenny's last show where 417 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,360 Speaker 3: Lenny had a little stuffed animals like, Hi, I identify 418 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 3: as an elephant, HI identify as a teddy bear? 419 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 4: Right, very cute, very tame. I thought that that's the 420 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 4: show that Lenny would be doing. 421 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 3: No, oh, no, in the show my mom came to 422 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 3: Lenny walked on the stage wearing nothing but a dick. 423 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 3: And also, for no apparent reason that I could figure out, 424 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 3: there was twenty minutes of Lenny peeing into. 425 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 4: A bucket on stage. 426 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 3: Now, if you've ever been upstairs at the Stone Wall, 427 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 3: you know that the stage is maybe two or three 428 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:42,919 Speaker 3: feet from the front row where my mom was sitting. 429 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 3: So I'm sitting in the audience thinking my mom and 430 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 3: Lenny Breedlove are having a golden shower scene. And then 431 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 3: I said the words I have not said before or since. 432 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 3: I turned to her friend and I said, would you 433 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 3: please get my mom some more wine? So we got 434 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 3: through that incident more or less okay, But oh the 435 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 3: questions the next day at breakfast, so she's like trying 436 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 3: to figure things out. Right, So she's like, so there 437 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 3: was a woman, a man, no, a woman no, A 438 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 3: woman dressed like a man sitting on the lap of 439 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 3: the woman. The man. 440 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 4: No, the woman dressed like a man? Is that the 441 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 4: way it always is? 442 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 2: By this time, Kelly had met her partner, Cheryl, a 443 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 2: writer and a poet. Cheryl was at the Stonewall performance too, 444 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 2: and Kelly introduced her to her mom. 445 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 3: She was like, she's beautiful and I was like, yeah, 446 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 3: I know, she's beautiful. 447 00:24:58,520 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 4: Yeah. 448 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 3: She was like, Kelly, in your subculture? And I was like, 449 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 3: I didn't even know she knew the word subculture. In 450 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 3: your subculture, are you considered attractive? And I was like, yeah, mom, 451 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 3: I'm actually in my subculture, I am considered attractive. There's 452 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:15,919 Speaker 3: like some women that want to date a mask on 453 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,479 Speaker 3: female and she was like, oh, I didn't have any idea, 454 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 3: And that actually just made her so relieved, you know. 455 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 3: And I think she started thinking me as more her 456 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 3: son than her daughter, and I think that helped too. 457 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 4: Wow. 458 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, I was curious at that moment at Stonewall, at 459 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 5: that performance, if like seeing your mom there and your 460 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 5: friends there and your girlfriend there, like all hanging out 461 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 5: having this time, does that sort of like I mean 462 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 5: when I think back of like you as a teen 463 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 5: having these questions about your purpose, you know that moment 464 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 5: where you sort of done in your searching and did 465 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 5: you have answers? 466 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 3: I felt happy for sure. I mean I think, you know, 467 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 3: I don't know if anyone's ever done and they're searching. 468 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 3: You know, it was a moment that it felt like 469 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,959 Speaker 3: a lot of people worked really hard to get to 470 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 3: that moment helped me get to that moment, you know, 471 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 3: like my mom's gay hairdresser. You know, my mom had 472 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 3: been watching Ellen for a long time, you know, Lenny 473 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,400 Speaker 3: even who like when they saw my mom just gave 474 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 3: my mom a big hug, like they'd been waiting their 475 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 3: whole lives to hug each other. You know, it seemed 476 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 3: like there was some people who were interested in me 477 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 3: and her being happy and me and her being friends, 478 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 3: and that seemed really nice, you know. And also that 479 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 3: she got to experience it, you know, she got to 480 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 3: experience what it feels like to be to be loved 481 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 3: by chosen family. 482 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 2: And then, unbelievably, Cheryl was diagnosed with Hodgkins lymphoma. 483 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,639 Speaker 5: And how did your mom and Cheryl get along? 484 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 3: My mom loves Cheryl. Yeah, yeah, Like when Cheryl started chemo, 485 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 3: my mom bought her bunny slippers and like fussed over 486 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 3: her and like my mom tried really hard to like 487 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 3: give Cheryl some mom energy, and Cheryl really appreciated that, 488 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,120 Speaker 3: and I appreciated it. And my sister was like, weren't 489 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,320 Speaker 3: you jealous? And I was like no, In a way, 490 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 3: that's like perfect because I get to observe that love 491 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 3: towards somebody I love, and it's not complicated the way 492 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 3: it would be between us, you know, So I actually 493 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 3: really appreciate that. 494 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 2: Kelly says that whenever there's a tragedy in her life, 495 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 2: she does a show. When Cheryl died, she booked a 496 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 2: whole Southern comedy tour. 497 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 3: I don't know how people get through stuff without having 498 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 3: an outlet of writing about it and performing about it 499 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 3: and trying to make it funny. I don't really know. Yeah, 500 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 3: it just seems like, wow, it seems brave. I love 501 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 3: things being involved with somebody who has a serious illness, 502 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 3: and I really feel like it gives you a perspective. 503 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 3: It definitely challenges the assumptions that the universe is a 504 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 3: good place, right, definitely challenges those assumptions, like, you know, 505 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 3: like those bumper stickers and say God is good. 506 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 4: All the time, I'm like, well, by the God is good? 507 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 4: But I don't know about me all the time. 508 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 3: Part right, because some kids get leukemia and some kids 509 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 3: get a poony. 510 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:26,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's okay, you can laugh at it. My therapist 511 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 4: totally does. 512 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 2: Kelly lives in Brooklyn in an apartment she affectionately calls 513 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 2: Queer Study Hall. There's always a revolving door of friends 514 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 2: coming through. She's a community school director, and she works 515 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 2: part time as a nurse, and she's developing a new 516 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 2: comedy tour fifty churches in fifty states. As for her faith, 517 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 2: Kelly stopped going to church after her time in the 518 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 2: Missionaries of Charity. 519 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 3: Actually, if you look at the world, it does seem 520 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 3: like there is a God, but it seems like God 521 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 3: hates us, Right, That's what it really looks like. You know, 522 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 3: the Haiti earthquake and then a color epidemic, you know. 523 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 4: Like come on. 524 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,480 Speaker 2: But after a while she discovered it was actually harder 525 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,719 Speaker 2: not to be involved in a spiritual practice than it 526 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 2: was to do it. Why fight it? So she found 527 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 2: a church in New York, a very open church. In fact, 528 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 2: she says, the pastor once said that even atheists are welcome, And. 529 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 3: I was like, I think this is my church. 530 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 4: The church. 531 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 3: Really don't care what you believe in, but that almost 532 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 3: in a sense doesn't matter. What matters is like the 533 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 3: community and the connection and trying to find meaning. You know, 534 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 3: the meaning is like for me, the meaning is the spirituality, 535 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 3: like trying to find meaning in like whatever I experience, 536 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 3: like try and convert whatever difficulty it is into something 537 00:29:47,920 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 3: that can help other people. Did you talk about. 538 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 5: Your mom's death with her? Did you talk about death 539 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 5: with her? 540 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 3: Oh? All the fucking time. That's like her favorite subject 541 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 3: for the last five years. 542 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 2: Kelly's mom died at the end of April after a 543 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 2: year an assisted living and then hospice. She had a 544 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 2: form of blood cancer. Kelly flew to Florida to be 545 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 2: with her. Her mom didn't ask her to come because, 546 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 2: as Kelly says, she's not a complainer, but Kelly went anyway. 547 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 3: When we were kids, like I can remember her being like, 548 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 3: don't put me on a machine, and we're like, Mom, 549 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 3: we're just going through the McDonald's drive for right now, 550 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 3: but okay, don't put on a machine. Got it? And 551 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 3: she always said, I'm not afraid of dying. I'm afraid 552 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 3: of I'm afraid of suffering, and I'm afraid of being alone. 553 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 3: Every conversation for the last year, she said, they shoot horses, 554 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 3: don't they. She really was like she's I think it 555 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 3: made her really, you know, she had a very honest relationship, 556 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 3: I think with God. But she always said, like, I 557 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 3: just keep asking why am I still here. 558 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 2: Kelly talked to the staff at Thesis said living facility, 559 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 2: and they'd say things like I love your mom's laugh, 560 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 2: and I just want to tell you this great thing 561 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 2: your mom did for me. At one point, even the 562 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 2: director of the facility was in tears talking about Kelly's mom. 563 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 2: So Kelly had an answer to her mom's question. 564 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 3: I came back and I was like, Mom, like, I 565 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 3: can't tell you why you were here, but I can 566 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 3: tell you, like why God gave you this extra year 567 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 3: that has been so difficult. But I can tell you 568 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 3: that you made people's lives. People at a assisted living 569 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 3: facility in Florida, in the middle of a pandemic, the epicenter, right, 570 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,959 Speaker 3: you made their lives easier in some of the like 571 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 3: the hardest times they will ever imagine. I was like, 572 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 3: you changed, like you brought light in this like terrible 573 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 3: difficult year, you know, And I was holding her hand 574 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 3: when she died, so she got she got what she wanted, 575 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 3: you know, so she wasn't and she wasn't suffering. 576 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 5: So do you think that your time with the missionaries 577 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 5: of charity, all this sitting in silence with others, helped 578 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 5: you be there for your mom? 579 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 3: I mean sure, you know, you spend years doing that, 580 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 3: you develop that capacity, and you develop also that is 581 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 3: not an uncomfortable thing, like we could be quiet, you know, 582 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 3: even like one of the hospice doctors was like, yeah, 583 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 3: usually when you come into a room, people are just 584 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 3: like and there's an unconscious patient, people are just chattering 585 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 3: at them or talking around them, you know, even though 586 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 3: we know that hearing is the last to go. And 587 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 3: I was like, well, I don't there's not some secret 588 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 3: I need to tell my mom now, Like we've known 589 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 3: she was going to die for a long time and 590 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 3: and she uh, like we've said what we needed to say, 591 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 3: Like what else am I going to say now? 592 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 4: You know? 593 00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 3: But I think like the comfort with silence is I 594 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 3: guess the two things are like, you know, being a 595 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 3: nun and also stand up comedy, because definitely stand up comedy, 596 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 3: you know, you have to when you have to wait 597 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 3: for the laugh. That silence feels like a really long time, 598 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 3: but if you can hold the silence, you'll get a 599 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 3: bigger laugh. So I haven't thought about that, And so 600 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 3: now people ask me where I am theologically, And I 601 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 3: don't really worry so much about the afterlife, except for 602 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 3: maybe that it just sounds exhausting like another life after 603 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 3: this one. I only want that if I can sit 604 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 3: on a couch and watch HBO documentaries. Otherwise I'm out. 605 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 3: But uh, you know, there was an attraction of like, 606 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 3: you know, baby butcher nuns and priests and drag and 607 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 3: groovy smelling incense. But also there was like the wonder 608 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 3: of like thinking you knew all the answers then that 609 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 3: if everyone thought like you, the world would just be fine. 610 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 3: There was a lot of power in that. And sometimes 611 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 3: even now, I'll uh, I'll hear like hymn being sung 612 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 3: and Catholic church as I walk by, and I'll get 613 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 3: kind of nostalgic, and I was like, oh, well, and 614 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 3: then remember, you know, I was married to that guy 615 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 3: and he was a little bit of a jerk. I'm 616 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 3: Kelly Dunham, thank you. 617 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 2: This episode was written and produced by Emily Foreman. Our 618 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 2: editor is Rob Rosenthal Andrea Asoahe is our digital producer. 619 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 2: Special thanks to Amy Gaines, Sarah Olander, Bethan Macaluso, Travis Dunlap, 620 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 2: and consulting producer Mary Johnson. Her memoir and Unquenchable Thirst 621 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 2: provided inspiration for this series. Our executive producers are Jessica 622 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 2: Alpert and John Parati at Rococo Punch and Katrina Norvel 623 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 2: at iHeartRadio. For photos and more details on this series, 624 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 2: follow us on Instagram at Rococo Punch. You can reach 625 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 2: out via email to the Turning at Rococoa Punch dot 626 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 2: com I America Lance. Thanks for listening