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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to What Goes Up, a weekly markets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My name is Mike Reagan. I'm a senior editor at

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg and I'm Baldonna Higher Across Acid reporter with Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: And this week on the show, Well, investors have been

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Speaker 1: scrambling to find somewhere to park their money where red

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Speaker 1: hot inflation doesn't erode the value of their holdings. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk to someone from the world's largest asset manager

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Speaker 1: who has a lot of ideas about that. But first,

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Speaker 1: l Donna, as a preview of my craziest thing of

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Speaker 1: the week, I need to ask you, what is the

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Speaker 1: most you've ever spent on sneakers? Sneakers, tennis shoes, trainers,

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Speaker 1: if you will, the most, the most hundred bucks? Maybe

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Speaker 1: not a lot your bucks. Yeah, you can get kids

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Speaker 1: for like kids, Yeah, do you actually own kids? Of course,

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Speaker 1: Taylor Swift owns kids, so I must own kids. And

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Speaker 1: they're only twenty bucks. I didn't even know they were

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Speaker 1: still around. I think you can get them for pretty cheap.

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Speaker 1: I mean they're made of like cotton, they ripped very easily.

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Speaker 1: Huh do you think I could talk my daughters and

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Speaker 1: wearing kids? They if they like Taylor Swift. Yeah, I'm

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Speaker 1: as you know, I'm notoriously at a cheap skate at heart,

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Speaker 1: but I actually recently spent almost two bucks on a

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Speaker 1: pair of running shoes. But it's the kind that comes

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Speaker 1: with like you go to one of those running shoe

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Speaker 1: stores and they take a video your foot. They oh,

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Speaker 1: you fell, And I'm a true believer in it. Look

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Speaker 1: as you get older, your feet become a bit of

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Speaker 1: a problem. You know, you got your corns and your bunians.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, my listeners don't want to know. I

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Speaker 1: fell for the gimmick, and I'm a true leaver in it.

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Speaker 1: I think it has helped my feet, even though I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't really run. The only time I actually run

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Speaker 1: is when I'm late for the train. But I walk

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Speaker 1: a lot. I walk almost like five miles a day,

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Speaker 1: you know, to the train, back from the train, up

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Speaker 1: to the snack bar a hundred times. You know, I'm

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Speaker 1: running away from this conversation right now. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: go introduce our guests. Well, I'm so happy that we

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Speaker 1: have j Jcobs. He's the US head of Thematics and

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Speaker 1: Active Equity E T F said black Rock he's joining

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Speaker 1: us this week. I'm thrilled to have you on. Thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us, Jay, that's a pleasure to

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Speaker 1: be here. We won't ask you about how much you've

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Speaker 1: spent on on sneakers just yet. I'm feeling better after

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Speaker 1: hearing about Mike's dollar purchase. I think I'm I'm closer

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Speaker 1: to your built Anna. Oh thank god. Yeah, I'm so

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Speaker 1: happy to hear that. Anyway, you recently started at black Rock.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm sort of hoping we can just start out

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Speaker 1: and you can tell us a little bit about you,

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Speaker 1: your path to black Rock, and then what your current

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Speaker 1: role entails. Absolutely so. I've spent my entire career in

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Speaker 1: the E t F industry, which, in some ways the

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Speaker 1: industry has been around for a while. It you know,

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Speaker 1: got its legs in the mid nineties and now is

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Speaker 1: so guests, you know, coming up on thirty years almost.

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Speaker 1: But uh, just in the last ten years or so,

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Speaker 1: we've seen an explosion of assets and E t F as.

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Speaker 1: People have really seen them as these efficient vehicles for

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Speaker 1: getting exposure to everything from different asset classes to different

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Speaker 1: geographies and maybe even most recently, different themes and looking

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Speaker 1: at different structural trends that are accelerating around the world

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Speaker 1: and the packet of the different baskets of companies that

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Speaker 1: are participating in those themes. So I started very early

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Speaker 1: in my career at the New York Stock Exchange, the

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Speaker 1: ETF listing group. There, I moved on to join what

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Speaker 1: was a start up at the time at Global Acts

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Speaker 1: and helped build out their business, and three and a

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Speaker 1: half months ago join black Rock as a really exciting

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Speaker 1: transition to join what to the great thematic platform. Here

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Speaker 1: we not only have index based themes where we're tracking

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Speaker 1: targeted baskets of themes like cybersecurity or merchant food and

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Speaker 1: actech or robotics, but also actively managed products to where

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Speaker 1: we tap into the full platform of black Rocks offering

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Speaker 1: with Fundamental Equities and black Rock Systematics. So it's a

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Speaker 1: very very exciting place to be with so much depth

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Speaker 1: of knowledge in the thematic area. So, Jay, what are

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Speaker 1: some of the hot thematic Etcfs of the year. I

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Speaker 1: have a inkling as to what they are considering everything

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Speaker 1: going on in the world, but what are some of

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Speaker 1: the sort of bright spots of the thematics world this year?

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Speaker 1: For you? Well, Mike, I'm sorry to say, there's no

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Speaker 1: sneaker e t F yet, we can work on that,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not sure. If there's we'll work on it.

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Speaker 1: At two bucks. I think that's a pretty good. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's some profits out there to be had. Well, you

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Speaker 1: get some My craziest thing, you're you're gonna be blown

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Speaker 1: away with where the sneaker conversation goes. It's it's absolutely nuts.

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Speaker 1: But you work on that, get get get an edgeword

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Speaker 1: in EATSF and I think, uh, you know, the sky's

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Speaker 1: the limit. But well, but our best people on it.

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Speaker 1: We so within within the thematic space, it's been really interesting.

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Speaker 1: You know, over the last three or four years, a

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Speaker 1: lot of leadership in the f attic space has been

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Speaker 1: around disruptive technology. It's been looking at things like cloud computing.

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Speaker 1: During the pandemic when we were all working from home,

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Speaker 1: it was around genomics and biomedicine when we were you know,

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out the vaccine situation and testing um.

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Speaker 1: But now it's really pivoted, especially as we've seen broader

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Speaker 1: shifts within the market from growth to value. People are

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Speaker 1: looking for more themes that are in the value space,

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Speaker 1: especially themes that they think that we think are going

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Speaker 1: to be more resilient amid this high inflationary environment. So

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Speaker 1: we've seen a lot of interest in infrastructure as a theme.

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Speaker 1: Part of that, the infrastructure investments that jobs act and

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Speaker 1: what's happening there. We've seen really an incredible amount of

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Speaker 1: interest in food related themes, especially as we've seen inflation

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Speaker 1: at the not maybe not so much at foot locker,

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Speaker 1: but we're seeing it at at the supermarket um. And

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Speaker 1: then also we've seen interest in in clean energy as

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Speaker 1: a play on inflation as well as some of the

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Speaker 1: most recent news out of Washington. So we're seeing again

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Speaker 1: kind of this shift. It's not just about disruptive tech anymore.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing themes that are playing a little bit more

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Speaker 1: in that value into the spectrum as investors look for

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Speaker 1: long term structural trends. But those that can still do

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Speaker 1: well in this different environment than we've been in, and

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Speaker 1: those different themes Jade, they're sort of for this inflationary environment, right,

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Speaker 1: So could you maybe walk us through those key themes

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Speaker 1: of yours and why exactly they work in a world

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Speaker 1: like we're having today. Absolutely so, a lot of it

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Speaker 1: has to do with what are the underlying companies in

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Speaker 1: this theme and why do we think that it's going

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Speaker 1: to benefit in an inflationary environment. So starting with infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: a lot of infrastructure asset owners, you know, companies that

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Speaker 1: run airports, run toll roads, run supports, or utilities companies,

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Speaker 1: they literally get to change their tolls based off of

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Speaker 1: cp I, So that is a natural built in business

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Speaker 1: hedge for inflation. When inflation has higher, they get to

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Speaker 1: raise their rates, especially if they're regulated rates tied to

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Speaker 1: c p I, and that just sort of neutralizes those

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Speaker 1: businesses from an inflation perspective. I think what's also happening

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Speaker 1: in that space is you have a lot of money

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Speaker 1: coming into infrastructure from the infant structure investments and jobs acts.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of build out of infrastructure that frankly,

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Speaker 1: these companies don't have to pay for or they get

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Speaker 1: tax credits or other benefits to build out this infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: which is helping. And then finally, when we think about

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Speaker 1: the economic environment that we're in, infrastructure tends to be

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Speaker 1: very um uh non cyclical. So if we start to

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Speaker 1: see a recession or if the economy slows down, people

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Speaker 1: still turn on the lights, they still use their ovens,

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Speaker 1: they still pay their water bills, and so not only

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Speaker 1: does it have this inflation component, but there's also a

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Speaker 1: defensive component within this theme, which is which is kind

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Speaker 1: of giving people that sweet spot of we don't know

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Speaker 1: if there's a recession, we don't know how a long

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Speaker 1: inflation is going to be around, and we also want

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Speaker 1: to participate in long term structural growth. Inflation really hits

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Speaker 1: on all three of those points. I think the second

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Speaker 1: theme that we are um, you know, really excited about

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Speaker 1: from that inflation perspective is ag tech and food innovation.

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Speaker 1: And I'll be honest, this is a theme that we

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Speaker 1: thought was really going to be playing out over the

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Speaker 1: next twenty years. We looked at we took a step back,

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Speaker 1: and we said, the world's arable land is pretty much limited.

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Speaker 1: There's a finite amount of land in the world, if anything,

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Speaker 1: that has been shrinking due to you know, changes in

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Speaker 1: the climate and more floods and more you know, forest fires,

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Speaker 1: which is making arable land somewhat shrink. But on the

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Speaker 1: demand side of the equation, we've seen a rising emerging

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Speaker 1: market consumer which is spending more money on food and

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Speaker 1: more complex foods like proteins and dairies. We've seen a

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Speaker 1: growing global population which will reach tenderly and people by

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Speaker 1: the year tift um. And we're seeing a change in

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Speaker 1: food preferences where people are increasingly demanding sustainable food. So

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Speaker 1: just looking at that, we were believing that over the

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Speaker 1: next several decades we were going to have this supply

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Speaker 1: and demand to balance around food that would create food inflation.

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Speaker 1: Of course, that's been pulled forward twenty years earlier than

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Speaker 1: we expected because of conflict in Eastern Europe, which has

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Speaker 1: brought a lot of weed offline, because of general global

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Speaker 1: supply chain disruptions, which has made it more difficult to

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Speaker 1: ship food around the world. So, um, we're seeing food inflation,

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Speaker 1: we're seeing it in really powerful ways. But we also

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Speaker 1: have these solutions that are already out there or with

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Speaker 1: attact like precision farming, precision watering, reduced use of chemicals,

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Speaker 1: more resilient crops, and that is getting accelerated by this environment.

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Speaker 1: And then the third team is clean energy, where we've

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Speaker 1: seen that a lot of the cost and clean energy

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Speaker 1: is really in the initial build out. You know, you

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Speaker 1: build out a solar farm, you build out a wind turbine,

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Speaker 1: That cost is mostly up front. Yes, there's some servicing

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Speaker 1: that's ongoing, but a lot of those costs are basically

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Speaker 1: fixed compared to you know, more traditional forms of energy

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Speaker 1: production where you're constantly paying for fuels. So in an

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Speaker 1: inflationary environment where you have rising commodity prices, upfront payment

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Speaker 1: of a lot of those costs tends to be beneficiary.

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Speaker 1: So those are the three segments where we think really

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Speaker 1: are in the sweet spot of of inflation. But also

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Speaker 1: how these long term tail ones. Yeah, I wonder how

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Speaker 1: often uh you're sort of studying the headlines out of Washington,

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Speaker 1: uh and and trying to figure out what themes um

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Speaker 1: could possibly emerge from sort of the shifting politics of

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Speaker 1: the see it and really you know politics globally, you know,

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Speaker 1: especially the clean energy e t f UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm impressed it's it's actually up here to date. So

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Speaker 1: very few things are actually positive year to date, but

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Speaker 1: clean energy, uh is it? I c l n is

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Speaker 1: the ticker is actually up I think three or four

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Speaker 1: percent year to date. But how big of a sort

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Speaker 1: of government risk do you see to the clean energy space?

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Speaker 1: If you know, we get to the mid terms and

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Speaker 1: there's a all of a sudden, Republicans are controlling Congress

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Speaker 1: and they're not so friendly to to clean energies. Does that,

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of political risk play into you into

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Speaker 1: you're thinking very much when when a deciding to to

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Speaker 1: create a a thematic etf like that and and be

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Speaker 1: you know, saying now it's a good time to to

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Speaker 1: get into it or not. So with any theme, what

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Speaker 1: we try to look for is what is going to

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Speaker 1: be the catalyst that is the game changer for the theme.

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Speaker 1: So you know, it takes take anything. We can take

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Speaker 1: cybersecurity for example, UM cybersecurity technology. It's a little bit

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Speaker 1: better each year companies spend more money on cybersecurity. But

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Speaker 1: oftentimes you see a catalyst like a major cyber attack

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Speaker 1: or something that happens in the space that suddenly everyone

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Speaker 1: is thinking about cybersecurity and becomes a transformational moment for

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Speaker 1: the trajectory of that theme. Sometimes it can be a

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Speaker 1: technological advancement. Sometimes it can be new policy and legislation. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it can be something that's changing in society like

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Speaker 1: COVID and how much that accelerated certain themes. So earlier

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Speaker 1: in this year, a lot of our focus was what

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Speaker 1: you know now that we're past the peak of COVID.

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Speaker 1: What does this mean for things like healthcare? What does

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Speaker 1: this mean for disrupted supply chains? What does this mean

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Speaker 1: for the rising consumer that has continued to become more

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Speaker 1: and more powerful even amid COVID, like millennials and emerging

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Speaker 1: market consumers, UM, specifically with clean energy. You know, of course,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of policy that comes into play as

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Speaker 1: a potential catalyst for this theme. Uh. You know, most

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Speaker 1: recently we've seen some interesting headlines around the Inflation Reduction

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Speaker 1: Act and specifically targeting about three sixty billion dollars that

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Speaker 1: could go to clean energy and electric vehicles. And when

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Speaker 1: you see that amount of money potentially potentially entering the space,

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Speaker 1: that can be a massive catalyst for the trajectory of

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Speaker 1: this theme. UM specifically because it changes the economics of

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Speaker 1: a theme. So if clean energy becomes cheaper or electric

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Speaker 1: vehicles become cheaper, that accelerates the adoption and um that

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Speaker 1: increases the scale of these technologies. As you see scale increase,

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Speaker 1: you sent disease costs come down. That's rights law or

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Speaker 1: the learning curve, and then you start to see really

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Speaker 1: the acceleration of of these themes snowball from there. So UM,

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Speaker 1: you know. Absolutely, we look to Washington, but we also

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Speaker 1: looked to Silicon Valley, and we also look to you know,

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Speaker 1: general trends that are happening around society for these catalysts.

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Speaker 1: So J Mike mentioned I C L N, which I

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Speaker 1: guess we can pronounce. Is I clean? Yeah? Clean? Absolutely?

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Speaker 1: And also you had sent us some some notes before

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Speaker 1: we started the podcast about I D R V I drive.

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Speaker 1: So some of these et f s in the clean

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Speaker 1: energy space, and you said that the market is missing

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Speaker 1: a sea change moment. So is that the sea change

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Speaker 1: moment you're referring to. Can you talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about that when it comes to the specific you

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Speaker 1: know e t f s in this space. Absolutely, So

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Speaker 1: what we're seeing is really the economics of these different

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Speaker 1: themes shifting because of uh, this potential policy that you

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Speaker 1: know that could be passed. Right. So if we look

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Speaker 1: at electric vehicles, for example, UM, right now, your average

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Speaker 1: cost of the average purchase price of electric vehicles about

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Speaker 1: higher than the average purchase price of all cars in

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Speaker 1: the United States. So it's about a fifth to a

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Speaker 1: quarter higher. Um. But actually when you look under the hood,

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Speaker 1: you see no pun intended If you actually look under

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Speaker 1: the hood of these cars. Uh, the total cost of

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Speaker 1: ownership over the lifespan of the car is already cheaper

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Speaker 1: for electric vehicles. That's because it's cheaper to fuel up

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Speaker 1: and it's cheaper to maintain. I was just doing some

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Speaker 1: back to the Napkin math. Uh, it's about ten dollars

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Speaker 1: to fuel up about three miles of range an electric vehicle.

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Speaker 1: It's about forty to fifty dollars nationally right now to

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Speaker 1: fuel up a similar internal combustion GIN. So you can

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Speaker 1: think about every time you fill it up. Is a

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Speaker 1: little bit cheaper electric vehicles that help closes That helps

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Speaker 1: to close the price gap. When you add on top

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Speaker 1: of that incentives from the government, which could be as

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Speaker 1: high as seventy for a new electric vehicle, then the

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Speaker 1: economics will really start to get more attractive to consumers

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Speaker 1: and it becomes it no longer becomes a question of

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Speaker 1: you know, do you like one car more than the other? Um,

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Speaker 1: I think the most powerful driver and a lot of

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Speaker 1: these things is just purely economics. And if there's a

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Speaker 1: cheaper car off the lot, or a similar priced car

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Speaker 1: off the lot, but you're filling up for ten dollars

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Speaker 1: instead of forty to fifty dollars. That's a really compelling

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Speaker 1: argument for a lot of consumers. So when we see

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Speaker 1: policy come through that can help change those economics to

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Speaker 1: be more attractive to a specific theme, we see that

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Speaker 1: as a very powerful accelerant. I'm gonna call j out

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Speaker 1: on that. I think that under the hood pawn wasn't

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Speaker 1: was actually intended and I'm sorry, it was really good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can't let that slipt the speaking of under the hood, Jay,

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Speaker 1: I was looking at some of the stocks uh in

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Speaker 1: the I d r V, the self driving and e

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Speaker 1: V eat t F. I'm curious how a few of

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Speaker 1: these fit into the theme. I mean, obviously, Tesla is

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Speaker 1: in there, that's that's clear enough. A bunch of chip makers,

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Speaker 1: Qualcom and Video Until Eating the engine maker fine, um,

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Speaker 1: But Apple, Alphabet and Samsung UM, and maybe I just

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Speaker 1: haven't been paying close off attention, but how did those

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Speaker 1: companies fit into um a self driving theme. I'm assuming

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Speaker 1: it's just they must have ambitions somewhere along the line

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Speaker 1: to to somehow be involved in this space to some degree.

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Speaker 1: A lot of the big tech players are investing very

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Speaker 1: heavily in autonomous vehicles, and a lot of it is that. UM.

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Speaker 1: Part of this is it's a brute force equation to

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Speaker 1: try to figure out autonomous vehicles. There's a lot of

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Speaker 1: processing power and a lot of data that needs to

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Speaker 1: be collected to be able to figure out something like

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Speaker 1: a unprotected left hand turn, which sounds simple, but when

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Speaker 1: you do it in a car, it's it's hard for me,

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Speaker 1: and a computer has to take in a lot of

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Speaker 1: inputs to figure out how to do that safely. So

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Speaker 1: who's really the best position to take in all that data,

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Speaker 1: to process that data to apply artificial intelligence. Well, no surprise,

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of the companies that lead in uh,

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Speaker 1: data collection and artificial intelligence. So we've seen, you know,

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Speaker 1: major players in in big tech coming into this space. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe it's kind of pre revenue, but they

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Speaker 1: are behind the scenes developing some very powerful products going forward.

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Speaker 1: I think the bigger point is when we look at

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Speaker 1: thematic investing, we're really trying to understand the entire ecosystem

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Speaker 1: of who benefits from this theme. So I'm sure many

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Speaker 1: listeners can name a couple of car companies off the

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Speaker 1: top of their head that are powerful electric vehicle companies.

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Speaker 1: But looking across the ecosystem. You know, who are the

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Speaker 1: companies that are building the batteries that go into those

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Speaker 1: electric vehicles. Who are the companies supplying those battery manufacturers

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Speaker 1: with lithium and other critical medal metals that go into batteries. UM,

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Speaker 1: Where the a V developers, Who are the parts suppliers

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Speaker 1: Because the parts suppliers in the electric vehicle space are

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Speaker 1: very different than internal combustion engines. There's very different parts

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Speaker 1: that are required in these two vehicles. So UM in

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Speaker 1: thematic investing, A lot of the research that goes into

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Speaker 1: these funds is really happening up front trying to understand

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Speaker 1: what is the what is the you know, what is

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Speaker 1: the state of the world, and what are the subsectors

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Speaker 1: and sub industries that are really going to benefit if

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Speaker 1: we see this theme really materialize. So last year was

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Speaker 1: actually already a transformational year for electric vehicles. About ten

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Speaker 1: cars sold year around the world were UM, we're electric.

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Speaker 1: We were a little bit further behind in the United States. UM,

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Speaker 1: but we expect that gap will close UM again because

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Speaker 1: of the economic argument we have, right, we have higher

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Speaker 1: gas prices, UM, we have more models that are coming

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Speaker 1: into this space and electric vehicles. We have prices generally

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Speaker 1: following electric vehicles, and now we might have another tax

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Speaker 1: credit which makes the economics even more attractive. And Jay,

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Speaker 1: when you're talking to clients and you're talking about the

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Speaker 1: other two categories that you mentioned to agriculture and infrastructure,

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Speaker 1: what are some of the e t F that you're

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Speaker 1: focusing on when it comes to those two themes. Absolutely

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Speaker 1: so in the infrastructure space, it's IFRA um. I'm a

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Speaker 1: big I'm a big fan of ticket pronunciation as well,

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Speaker 1: So I f r A we pronounced IFRA. It's our

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Speaker 1: US infrastructure funds. So we're looking, uh, not only at

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Speaker 1: traditional infrastructure owners, the companies that kind of own and

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Speaker 1: operate infrastructure around the United States, but also the companies

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Speaker 1: that are building infrastructure of the future and the inputs

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Speaker 1: that go into building infrastructure of the future. Part of

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Speaker 1: that is due to the Infrastructure Investments on Jobs Act

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Speaker 1: and at one point two trillion dollars that's going into

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Speaker 1: infrastructure around the United States. Part of that is increased

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Speaker 1: investment from the private side, from states, from local municipalities. Basically,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of investment coming into infrastructure which had

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Speaker 1: largely been neglected over the last several decades in this country.

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Speaker 1: And you know, there's a great report that comes out

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Speaker 1: every four years, the American Society of Civil Engineers, and

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Speaker 1: they gave the u S a D plus on infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: So we knew this was coming. We knew there was

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Speaker 1: going to be a need for a lot more investment.

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Speaker 1: We don't just want to own the existing asset owners,

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Speaker 1: but also who are building the new airports and the

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Speaker 1: new seaports and the new six lane highways going through

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Speaker 1: the country. And then on the on the food side

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Speaker 1: of things are tickers I VE EDGE, I V E

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Speaker 1: g Um, which is our emergent food and Actec Multisectory

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Speaker 1: TF and that's really looking at who are the innovators

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Speaker 1: within food. Um I did a kind of a fun

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Speaker 1: test within the office. Um I bought two types of strawberries,

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Speaker 1: traditional strawberries and my fancy New age strawberries. And a

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Speaker 1: traditional strawberry has grown about miles away from New York City,

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Speaker 1: oftentimes grown in California. UM Oftentimes it can use as

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Speaker 1: much as three hundred times the way to the strawberry

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Speaker 1: and water. UH. It could have up to eight pesticides

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Speaker 1: being used in that strawberry UH and of course it

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Speaker 1: has to be transported across the country so that we

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Speaker 1: can enjoy it um. You know, in New York City.

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Speaker 1: My special fancy strawberry UM that I also brought in

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Speaker 1: is grown in Jersey City, so about a hundred times closer. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In an indoor vertical farm. It can be grown year round,

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Speaker 1: It uses about nine less water. Oftentimes, it can use

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Speaker 1: no pesticides at all because it's grown inside and there's

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Speaker 1: less risk of of of pests coming in and eating

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Speaker 1: the crops um and so uh and the cherry on

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Speaker 1: top of this strawberry is that a robot can actually

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Speaker 1: analyze the strawberry when it's growing and perfectly optimize the

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Speaker 1: time to harvet for its juiciest, most flavorful moment. So

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Speaker 1: we did a little taste test in the office with

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Speaker 1: these two different kinds of strawberries, and naturally, people gravitated

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Speaker 1: towards our delicious hand hand robot picked indoor vertically farm strawberry.

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Speaker 1: But the point is to show that ad tech can

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Speaker 1: have a really powerful um implication on how we grow

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Speaker 1: our crops and where we get it from and what

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Speaker 1: are the inputs into those crops. And you know, going

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Speaker 1: back to inflation. We're seeing inflation, and labor costs we're

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Speaker 1: seeing inflation, and chemicals we're seeing inflation and water prices.

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Speaker 1: So if you get all those different inputs and you

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Speaker 1: can replace them or reduce their usage through at tech,

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Speaker 1: you can start to fight inflation. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: right now some of these technologies are a little bit

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Speaker 1: nason but as we see more adoption and more scale,

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Speaker 1: we believe that will drive down costs of food going forward.

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Speaker 1: I had not heard of these fancy Jersey City shrubberries.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty cool. They tasted better because they're grown in

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Speaker 1: Jersey City. They actually taste like pork roll of Bildana.

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Speaker 1: That's the secret. Yeah, my, my only I actually have

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Speaker 1: heard of them. My only fear is that the fancy

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Speaker 1: shruberries cost like forty strawberry or something. No, it's not

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Speaker 1: that high, but it's it's expensive. These are when you

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Speaker 1: look at the trajectory of Nassan technologies, they often start

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Speaker 1: expensive and you need to attack the early adopters. And

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Speaker 1: so think about the EV industry, what was the strategy

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Speaker 1: go for the fancy luxury car market. These are the

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Speaker 1: people that are gonna have more disposable income to spend

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Speaker 1: on a fancy ev go for tax credits lobby in

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Speaker 1: Washington to get more money to bring down the costs.

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Speaker 1: As you start to see that scale, then you and

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Speaker 1: start building cars for the masses. And I think we're

430
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,520
Speaker 1: gonna see a similar trajectory and actect. Right now, we

431
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,360
Speaker 1: have fancy, somewhat expensive strawberries, but as this technology scales,

432
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,879
Speaker 1: costs will come down and soon all of our strawberries

433
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 1: maybe we'll be grown in Jersey City in an indoor warehouse.

434
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:20,680
Speaker 1: But Jay, I, it's a it's really a fascinating concept

435
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 1: of thematic ETFs. And you know we're joking about you know,

436
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 1: uh Air Jordan's sneaker ETF. But I can only imagine

437
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 1: your team at Black Rocks sitting around and the ideas.

438
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,120
Speaker 1: You know, there must be a million ideas a day

439
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 1: about a new theme, you know, especially over the past

440
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 1: few years. You know, we went from the trade war

441
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 1: with China to COVID to energy inflation, you know, the

442
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: food shortage. Um, you know, it's just been a battery

443
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: year banner few years for potential thematic ways to invest.

444
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 1: So I'm just curious about the process at Black Rock,

445
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 1: you know, am I right to think of you, you know,

446
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 1: y'all bantering around, battering around about a hundred different ideas

447
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: that every time you get together, and how do you

448
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: sort of win it with down um to one that

449
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,399
Speaker 1: you actually want to launch? And to make this a

450
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: twelve part question, you know, is there sort of a

451
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 1: number in your mind of how many new ones per

452
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 1: year or per quarter that you'd want to you know,

453
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: limit your launches to. And and sort of what is

454
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 1: the process of of going from drawing word to bringing

455
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 1: a thematic etf to to the market. It's a great question.

456
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: And um, the opportunities in some sense are unlimited. As

457
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 1: you said, you know, themes are constantly evolving. New themes

458
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: are emerging from nowhere. Other themes are sunsetting, you know,

459
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,199
Speaker 1: as they kind of grow into maature industries, and so

460
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: it's a constantly evolving space. And UM, I think that

461
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: really proved out in the last few years we saw

462
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: assets and thematic ets quintuple from one as people increasingly

463
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 1: saw these new ways of slicing and dicing the market

464
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 1: as really trying to align their ideas with investments. Um. Again,

465
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: going back to the pandemic, it wasn't enough to just

466
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: look for tech sectory TF People really specifically wanted to

467
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: look for where am I spending my money? I'm spending

468
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 1: it online, Where am I spending my time? I'm spending

469
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,959
Speaker 1: it on video games and knee commerce, and how am

470
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: I working I'm working remotely through cloud computing. People really

471
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 1: wanted these more refined exposures UM that got a little

472
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:24,720
Speaker 1: bit deeper than you know, more traditional sector E t

473
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: f s. But when we think about the process of themes,

474
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: we have to apply a rigid structure to it so

475
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: we don't get lost in this UM you know, infinite

476
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: possibilities space, and really we're looking for a few different things. UM.

477
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: First of all, we really want to develop our conviction

478
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: behind the theme. So we have five different categories of

479
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: megatrends within Black Rock. We're looking at breakthrough technologies. We're

480
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 1: looking at climate change and resource scarcity, we're looking at

481
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: changing demographics, we're looking at the emergent consumer, and we're

482
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: looking at urbanization. And so oftentimes we're looking within and

483
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 1: across those buckets of where are we're seeing powerful trends,

484
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: And the more a trend the lines with one of

485
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 1: those buckets, the more conviction we have behind it. UM.

486
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: But we'll dig in. We want to find out if

487
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 1: this is a new technology, how good is this technology,

488
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: are people using it? How big is the market for

489
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,880
Speaker 1: this technology going forward? Are there other technologies that need

490
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: to emerge with this technology for it to be viable

491
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: or profitable? And so we really dig in and research

492
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 1: this UM not just within I Share us, but within

493
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 1: our partners across Black Rock to really understand what is

494
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 1: the opportunity set in this theme and do we believe

495
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: that this theme is going to have a powerful impact

496
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: on the world around us. The second thing we have

497
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,199
Speaker 1: to look at tho is it also investable? Can we

498
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: get good exposure to this theme? Uh in an e

499
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 1: t F and E t S can only invest in

500
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: public equities. UM, we can invest globally, so we can

501
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: look anywhere around the world, within any sector, within energy,

502
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,399
Speaker 1: any geography for this opportunity. But we still need to

503
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 1: find those companies that are really leading in this space.

504
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: And so some themes are interesting. They might have this,

505
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: you know, incredibly large total addressable market, but if we

506
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: can invest in it, we're not going to bring it

507
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: out as a theme. And then really the third thing

508
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:03,360
Speaker 1: we look at his time horizon. We want these themes

509
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: not to be over tomorrow. That's going to be too fast.

510
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 1: We don't want them to start taking off a hundred

511
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: years from now because we don't we don't have the

512
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: patients for that either. There's a sweet spot in thematic investing,

513
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 1: which is that really we we anticipate that a catalyst

514
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: can happen in the next three to five years, and

515
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: that the expression of this theme will happen over the

516
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: next decade or so. That is the sweet spot from

517
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: a time horizon perspective. So um like to some extent,

518
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: you're right, we do get to sit around and think

519
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 1: about some you know, off the wall ideas, but when

520
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: we put it through this rigid process, that's what narrows

521
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: it down to, you know, the handful of themes that

522
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: we launch each year. So can you tell us which

523
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 1: themes or trends are on your radar right now? And

524
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: I sort of imagine you guys have a little list

525
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: of things that are interesting to you or that you

526
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: think will you know, check off all of the boxes

527
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 1: for the things you just mentioned. I remember talking to

528
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: an issue or a couple of years ago who had said,

529
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: you know, clean energy or sorry water water use was

530
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 1: going to be a theme that they had been looking at. Obviously,

531
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: Crypto has been a very hot or I don't even

532
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: know how to describe it anymore, but um, it's caught

533
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 1: a lot of people's attentions, a lot of issuers attention

534
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: over the last couple of months. And feel free to

535
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,919
Speaker 1: share as much proprietary black Rock internal information as you

536
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: as you want. I was going to say, as as

537
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: much as I would love to share. This is like

538
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: the recipe to diet coke or something. It's under like

539
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: triple secret lock a lot of these ideas, but this

540
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: is your chance, this is your chance to really open up.

541
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 1: At least give us the worst theme idea you've ever heard.

542
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: Maybe it was the Air Jordan idea. I don't know.

543
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: I like that theme. I um, you know, like like,

544
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 1: let's play with that a little bit, Mike like, so

545
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: underlying I'm serious, like the sneaker theme. So what is

546
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,399
Speaker 1: it really representing? There is a new consumer. There's this

547
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 1: rising millennial consumer in this rising emerging market consumer that

548
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 1: is finding that they have more money than they've had

549
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: it previously. Because they are increasingly entering the workforce, they're

550
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 1: sizing up the ranks of their companies and they have

551
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: to decide where they want to spend their money. And

552
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,680
Speaker 1: what's interesting about this consumer group is that they are

553
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 1: more likely to spend money on sneakers than previous generations.

554
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: So um, you know, I don't know if a sneaker

555
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: ETF is really viable, but there are megatrends within that.

556
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: You know, if you broaden that out, there's a mega

557
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: trend behind that, which is what is the new consumer

558
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: and how are they spending their money differently from other

559
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,439
Speaker 1: generations and so uh. Part of that, you know, is

560
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: related to blockchain. We see that there's a lot of

561
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: people in the emerging markets who have been unbanked in

562
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: the past and can suddenly access finance through um, through blockchain,

563
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 1: into centralized finance. Part of that is through food. Millennials

564
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: are much more likely to prefer food from sustainable sources

565
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: than other generations, and so the food that they demand

566
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 1: is kind of it looks different than the food that

567
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: previous generations have demanded. And that's why we see alternative

568
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: proteins and alternative bairies showing up on you know, on

569
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: all the aisles in our in our supermarkets. So um,

570
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: there is a theme behind sneakers, Mike, uh and uh

571
00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: and and it's a powerful one. It's one that we

572
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: certain we have our eyes on. I'm not going to

573
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: promise this, Nikerta, but it's but the changing consumer is

574
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: a very powerful megatrend. Absolutely. And what what were some

575
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: of those themes you were just about to share with us?

576
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: So I thought I wiggled out of that one. You'll

577
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: have to invite me back and I can share we

578
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: have some we have exciting themes under development, but I'll

579
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: have to come back and share them when they're ready

580
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: for the public. I uh and assume E s G

581
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: must play a pretty significant uh input in how you're

582
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: thinking about these, just given black Rocks sort of emphasis

583
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: on e ST and and also just the investing public.

584
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 1: You know, I'm trying to think who your your target

585
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: buyer of a thematic et F would be? Is it individuals?

586
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: Is it pensions you know, uh, institutions? And and how

587
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: big of a sort of impetus is our E s

588
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 1: G considerations when when looking at teams. Yeah, absolutely so. Um.

589
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: First of all, one of our megatron pillars is climate

590
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: and resource scarcity. So when we look at some of

591
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: the powerful trends happening around the world today. Some of

592
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: them are very much related to climate. We've already talked

593
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 1: about it with food and you know how we're seeing

594
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: kind of shrinkage of airable land. When it comes to

595
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: clean energy, we're seeing the powerful forces within policy and

596
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: consumer demand that are powering greater growth in in clean

597
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: energy production. So that's an entire pillar of our megatrends framework. UM.

598
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: But to your question around who's the buyer of thematic,

599
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: it really runs a wide gamut. And I think part

600
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: of that is that on one hand, these are very

601
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 1: approachable ideas that people can intuitively understand, So a novice

602
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: investor can wrap their head around an idea like, um,

603
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: I see a lot of electric vehicles on the road.

604
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 1: Is this a growing theme? How do I get exposure

605
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: to it? Oh, there's an eye dry BTF. But on

606
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: the other hand, these are sophisticated concepts. These are providing

607
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: exposures that are crossing geographies, crossing sectors, providing really unique

608
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: exposures to a portfolio. And we see even institutions using

609
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: them in their portfolios to get these unique cuts and

610
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: these unique exposures. UM in a in a broader, more

611
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: diverse five portfolio. So there's a very wide buyer base

612
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: of these themes. Um, it really can't be pigeonholed to

613
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: just one type of investor. And I have one more

614
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: question for you about sort of the internal dealings of

615
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: how you guys come up with different funds. One thing

616
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: that's super interesting to me is tickers, and we we

617
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: we've mentioned a bunch of really great ones that you

618
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 1: guys have. There's some really really catchy ones where when

619
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: you see the ticker, you definitely know what you can

620
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: expect from the E t F. So how important is

621
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: it to have I don't know if catchy is the

622
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: best word. Maybe you have a better word to to

623
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: to use in this case, But how important is it

624
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: to have a very good ticker where somebody can easily

625
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: find you or sort of get enticed by the ticker

626
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: itself to even become interested in the E t F.

627
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: I think it helps a ton. I mean, people have

628
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: a strong memory for for tickers, and so I guess,

629
00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: backing up very early in my career, my very first

630
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: job at then at the New York Soaker Change was

631
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: actually reserving tickers for t f issuers. That's part of

632
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: the job. So it's kind of like being the I

633
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: assume it's like being the person at the DMV that

634
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: does vanity license plates, but you're only working with up

635
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: to four characters. They're a little bit more limited. But

636
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: I I love a great ticker. I'm I'm as much

637
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,160
Speaker 1: of a fan as you. Um yeah, having a good

638
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: memorable ticker I think means a lot. I mean that

639
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: I shares. We have a very um uh kind of

640
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: common approach where we'll use IE for the eye and

641
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: aishers and then we have three letters at our disposal

642
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: to do something memorable. So when we think about you know,

643
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: emergent food, we have i've edge. When we think about

644
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: electric vehicles, we have I drive, you know, for cybersecurity,

645
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: I hack and so we try to take both that

646
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: kind of familiarity of using the eye, but then also

647
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 1: having something that really links the ticker to the theme.

648
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: But I love a good ticker, and and and and

649
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: are you sort of compiling lists and then going to

650
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: the exchanges and reserving them just in case you want

651
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: to come up with a fund down the line? Oh no,

652
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: we well, we we try to tie it to product

653
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 1: launches specifically, so we think, you know, we we we

654
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: get people in the room and think through the different

655
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: ticker ideas. As we're getting ready for a product launch,

656
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: s n k R is available. J. I just just

657
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: throwed it out there. You know, maybe maybe I s

658
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: n K I sneeze so J. How about in UM

659
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: in fixed income? I mean, I know, UH shares is

660
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: obviously famous for the T L T, the H y G,

661
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: you know, the big Treasury and and UH and how

662
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: you'll bond e TF Is there space in thematics for

663
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: fix fixed income? From your perspective, we haven't seen much

664
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: of it yet, but we're seeing growing adoption of themes.

665
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: Themes are really just different ways to slice in dise

666
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: the market to get exposure to forward looking ideas UM

667
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 1: and so for the most part, we've seen a lot

668
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 1: of that focused on the equity space because you can

669
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: get really targeted exposures to equities and you can get

670
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: a lot of we call it kind of theme beta.

671
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 1: It's a little bit of a nerdy term for how

672
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: much exposure are you getting to of a theme. So

673
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: if robotics takes off, is our robotics and the real

674
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: economy is taking off? Are we seeing you know, the

675
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: robotics stocks taking off as well. Um, you could apply

676
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,839
Speaker 1: that to fixed income. Uh we we we haven't done

677
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: much in that space, Uh you know yet. But I

678
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: think the breath of opportunity of thematic is expanding very rapidly,

679
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: and I would expect to see a lot more product

680
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: innovation and across assets, across themes, across geography is going forward.

681
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: And Jay, obviously we've we have so many different e

682
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 1: t F s. I forget what the number is now,

683
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 1: it's probably over two thousand. You you probably know the

684
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: number off the top of your head, just in the

685
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: A t F in the entire et F universe. I'm

686
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: just wondering if you ever think about the space being

687
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: overly saturated, or if we can get to a point

688
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,280
Speaker 1: where there's just so many options out there for people,

689
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 1: too many. I think choices and is an incredible thing

690
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: for investors because it lets people express their opinions their

691
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: e t s using really re find um exposures of

692
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 1: the ligne with their views. So I'll give you a

693
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: little bit of an example within the robotics space in

694
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: the TF industry, there's about five different robotics ETFs. The

695
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: average overlap between those products is less than so even

696
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: though all the products are looking at robots, we're all

697
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: looking at robots a little bit differently, um, whether that's

698
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: black Rock Views Views on Robotics or someone else. And

699
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 1: so that gives investors a lot of choice. I think

700
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: that gives investors also need to have a lot of

701
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: trust in the issue are behind that et F of

702
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: how they've designed the exposure to that specific theme. Um.

703
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: But we think that choice is wonderful for investors to

704
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: be able to really look again under the hood. I'm

705
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 1: sorry for the pun. I guess that doesn't apply to robots,

706
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 1: but look under the hood at an e V t

707
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: F and understand what is the exposure and is that

708
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: really the exposure they're looking for. Yeah, I imagine there's

709
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: a little bit of Darwinism at played. So you know,

710
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: if the if the thing's not gathering enough assets to

711
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: make it sustainable, then you you know, it goes into

712
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: retirement or the et F graveyard as Baltunists would call it. Uh.

713
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: But speaking about t J, I'm I'm sure you've running

714
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: him at some point. He's our et F guru here.

715
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 1: Eric Beltrino said, um at Bloomberg. He tweeted something the

716
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: other day that I found pretty interesting. UM shouldn't be

717
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: that surprising, I guess. But it was basically a bar

718
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 1: chart of assets in UH E t F sorted by

719
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: what their UH expense ratios are, you know, and and

720
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: obviously the lower the expense ratio, the higher the assets

721
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: UM And I wonder how you think about that. In thematics,

722
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: it's you know, I'm looking at, say, for example, the

723
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,919
Speaker 1: the I d r V expense ratio of forty seven

724
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 1: basis points, which is not a huge expense ratio. But

725
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 1: when you compared to say, you know, uh NZAQUE or

726
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,720
Speaker 1: an SMP, one of those really competitive spaces for index

727
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: ETFs UM, they get down into these minuscule expense ratios.

728
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 1: So how hard is it to to cut those expenses

729
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: on a thematic even if it's not an active one,

730
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: I mean even a past someone. There's this whole process

731
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: and research that goes into it. How big of a

732
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: deal is the expense ratio and thematics UM and and

733
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: you think, you know, I'm assuming there's always an effort

734
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: to bring it down. Uh, you know, how do you

735
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: go about that process? Yeah? So a lot of it

736
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: comes down to portfolio construction. So you know, many investors

737
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: will do more of a core satellite approach where they

738
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: will have the lion share of their assets in very

739
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: you know, low cost diversified core products and you know,

740
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 1: get the SMP five hundred tracking and their fixed income

741
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: and really cover you know, wide spots on the market

742
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 1: with that low cost exposure. And then they'll supplement that

743
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 1: with smaller satellite positions that can give them more growth

744
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: or give them more income, or give them more risk

745
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: management and um. And that's where it's going to be

746
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 1: kind of smaller allocations but really help them to achieve

747
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: their outcomes. So oftentimes we'll see you know, three or

748
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,200
Speaker 1: four thematic ETFs put into the satellite portion of one's portfolio.

749
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: Maybe it's tent of their portfolio, but it's giving them

750
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 1: that growth opportunity that is enhanced above the core. Because

751
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: that tends to be a smaller allocation. You know, the

752
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 1: funds are going to be smaller in size than core funds.

753
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: You know, we haven't seen a thematic et F each

754
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 1: hundrebillion in assets. Yeah, they often tend to be smaller

755
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: than that, and that you know, sort of justifies the

756
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 1: fees and in terms of scale. But oftentimes you can

757
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 1: still achieve a very low cost, diversified portfolio with thematic

758
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: with all in fees that are very low. So we

759
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 1: think that we're continuing to provide a lot of value

760
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: to investors with with the pricing of of both our

761
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,480
Speaker 1: themes and the core. Yeah, what is the big or

762
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 1: the clean energy ones like five billion or something that is. Yep,

763
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: that's one of the biggest on our platform. Absolutely ja

764
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 1: good stuff. Um, we gotta send Veldona over to get

765
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:07,839
Speaker 1: some of those Jersey City strawberries that tastes like pork roll.

766
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 1: I would love I would love to try park roll.

767
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,439
Speaker 1: It tastes like delicious strawberries. All right, Well, that's that's

768
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 1: indoor Jersey City strawberries. That's that's less exciting. That's less

769
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: innovative than that I was hoping for in these Jersey

770
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: City strawberries. But as the garden state, I'm sure they're good.

771
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 1: But I think it's that time, Vildonna, do you know

772
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: what time it is? Well, the strawberry thing is pretty crazy,

773
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 1: but I think it's time for us to also play

774
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: craziest thing we saw in markets. Okay, whereest thing, craziest thing,

775
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 1: crazy whatever we call it? Still crazy, still craziest thing

776
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:45,839
Speaker 1: after all these years, you go first. I've got high

777
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,800
Speaker 1: hopes for your crazy thing this week. Mine is so good.

778
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: But it's so good that you actually might have heard

779
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: of it already. And it made me a little bit queasy,

780
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 1: which is why I'm going with it. Queezy queazy. You'll

781
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: see worse than the how many rats can be found

782
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:04,040
Speaker 1: in a dollar store warehouse? You tell me all right.

783
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: Fancy Feast is opening a pop up Italian restaurant in

784
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 1: New York City with quote upscale dishes that are inspired

785
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: by its canned cat food. It's launching this month in

786
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: downtown New York City. I actually think it starts next week.

787
00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: I would love to actually just maybe go and scope

788
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: this out. So it's branded Gotto Bianco, which means white cat,

789
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:34,240
Speaker 1: and they're going to be serving dishes like salmon calm

790
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:39,720
Speaker 1: parton palmer rodini not pronouncing this very well, but salmon

791
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: with cherry tomatoes and brassado dimonzo, which is beef short

792
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: ribs in red wine. And you can have lemon pancotta

793
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: for dessert. I mean, it actually sounds delicious. I don't

794
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: know why they felt inclined to make the connection to

795
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: cat food in this Uh you know, I don't know.

796
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 1: Can you bring your cat to the I don't think so.

797
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: I mean with cats are antisocial, they don't want to

798
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: be going out for dinner. But um, it doesn't make

799
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: you queasy. Well when you uh say the names of

800
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 1: the dishes, it makes me very hungry. But when I

801
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: think fancy fees, I do get a little queasy. I

802
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: wonder you're a cat person. Is this like something cat

803
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,919
Speaker 1: people will embrace? No, no way, dog lovers are going

804
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:27,440
Speaker 1: nowhere near this place. I'll tell you that. You know,

805
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: I don't know who's going near this place. I would

806
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 1: love to, honestly just see what it looks like. But

807
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 1: when I feed my cat and I open it and

808
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: a little bit of the stuff gets on my hand,

809
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: I literally it's like it's like a nuclear waste touching

810
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 1: my skin. The last thing you're thinking is good, will

811
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,440
Speaker 1: give you some of that I want to place? Yeah, exactly,

812
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: that's pretty good. I did see that one, but I

813
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:50,359
Speaker 1: will I'll give you mad respect, as the kids say,

814
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: for it's a good one. How about you, Jay? You

815
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: see anything crazy in the markets recently. I'm gonna stick

816
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,359
Speaker 1: with the with strawberries over cat food. I just want

817
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: to make that clear. I know I'm all for food innovation,

818
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 1: but that that's a step too far for me. Um. Yeah,

819
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: I'll stick with the food theme. I think this is

820
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 1: this is crazy as far as as as finance nerds get.

821
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 1: But I was looking into inflation a bit. The cost

822
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 1: of a dozen eggs has gone up sixty in the

823
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,920
Speaker 1: last year. It took twenty years to have the same

824
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 1: amount of inflation and eggs um before that, So from

825
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,720
Speaker 1: two thousand to two thousand, twenty was the same increase.

826
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 1: I think that's crazy, and that you know a lot

827
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: of what we've talked about today with food inflation, and

828
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: you know the bill when you leave the supermarket and

829
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 1: some of the sticker shock on that. Um, it's pretty

830
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 1: wild to see that amount of that amount of increase

831
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: in such a short time. Yeah. Absolutely, I wonder is it?

832
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 1: I wonder if it's the input costs the chicken feed.

833
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,719
Speaker 1: Literally that's uh, that's done. It probably right? That that

834
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: is nuts? All right? I promised to something related to sneakers,

835
00:42:54,239 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: uh and are probague. Miss Lorena had a really amazing story, Um,

836
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 1: Vildana you probably read it, but it's about an air

837
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: Jordan's ponzi scheme. I believe that the first of its kind,

838
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: and it's all goes back to this stock X. I

839
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: think this was one of my crazy things from a

840
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: few years ago. But there's this exchange basically for sneakers, um,

841
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: mainly Air Jordan's, but I guess you know, plenty of

842
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 1: others trade on it took kids. I don't know about kids.

843
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm kidding. I gotta I'm gonna talk

844
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 1: to my kids into getting kids. Um. But this story

845
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 1: is nuts because the details of this ponzi scheme. Basically,

846
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: the this couple was promising rare Air Jordan's at you know,

847
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: way below what the market price was. But as a ponzi,

848
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 1: the people would send them their money, they wouldn't get

849
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: the sneakers. Maybe they'd complain and he'd send them some

850
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: money back. But uh, you know, there were some fraudulent

851
00:43:55,680 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: bank loans involved. It's a big mess. But a got

852
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: me poking around on the site of stock X, and

853
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 1: believe it or not, they stock X has Air Jordan's indexes. Uh,

854
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: there's an Air Jordan four. I guess the fourth version

855
00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: of the Air Jordan was a very popular one. And

856
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: there's a Nike air Max one index. They also have

857
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 1: have you ever heard of cause either when you hear

858
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: of K A W. S figurines, I've never heard of this.

859
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 1: It's some graffiti artist, um who started making these little

860
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 1: funny figurines, and they're a hot thing now among collectors,

861
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: I guess um. And also a basketball Trading cards index.

862
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: Basketball cards are a big thing. So I found this

863
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: report on their website and they track the appreciation of

864
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 1: each of these indexes from uh the beginning of sold

865
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: the end of April. So that is the the golden

866
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 1: era of crazy market action right there, beginning of to

867
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: April and of April. So, uh J, I regret to

868
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: inform you you are now contestant on the price. What

869
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: did we decide? The name of the show was the

870
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: price is correct? The price the prices cracked? Yes, we

871
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: can't call it prices right. Yes, we do not want

872
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 1: to get correct suitor or punched by Bob Barker like

873
00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 1: Happy Gilbert, the prices accurately. No, I like the prices correct.

874
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: The prices correct, all right, So beginning of to the

875
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: end of April, we're gonna chart the Air Jordan four index,

876
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 1: the Nike air Max one Index, the Cause Figurine Index,

877
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: the Baseball basketball pardon me, Trading Card Index, and a

878
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: quaint little index known as the SMP five. What do

879
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: you think performed the best and what was return? I'm

880
00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: gonna go with this Air Jordan's four index and I'll

881
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: say it was up twelve. Okay, all right, I'm gonna

882
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 1: keep my poker face on. As a reminder, j We've

883
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 1: got the Air Jordan four Index, the Nike Airmax one Index,

884
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: the Cause Figures, and the Basketball Trading Cards Index, and

885
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:27,240
Speaker 1: the SMP five. What do you think performed the best

886
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: from the beginning of till the end of April? And

887
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:34,960
Speaker 1: that's the time frame in their report. That's the only

888
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,319
Speaker 1: reason I don't have the actual data to play around with.

889
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,560
Speaker 1: They have never heard of cause I'm gonna go with

890
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: basketball cards. I think basketball has really entered the zekegeist

891
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 1: and people are tracking it really closely, and I'm I'm

892
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: gonna go with basketball cards. I'm gonna say a ten

893
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 1: x two thousand percent. Okay, they'll do it once again.

894
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: I regret to inform you you've you've lost the prices

895
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 1: accurate this week. I'm shocked. I'm shocked, considering all my

896
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 1: deep knowledge of weird sneakers. J J got it on

897
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: the head. The basketball trading card index little frothy on

898
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 1: your on your returns there was it was uh return

899
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: uh but still pretty good. I mean for basketball cards

900
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,799
Speaker 1: who knew Uh. The SMP for comparisons only up about

901
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: over that time Eric Jordan's four index up a hundred,

902
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 1: uh caused cause beat the like their maximus. Cause still

903
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: beat the SMP over that period, for whatever the heck

904
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: they are. Naturally, that's the world we live in in

905
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 1: that some stupid thing none of us have even heard of. Uh,

906
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 1: some silly little toys beat the SMP over that period, thankfully, J.

907
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,839
Speaker 1: I don't know. Have the markets come back to earth?

908
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: Are they saying again do you think or how are

909
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: you thinking? Overall about that sort of the insanity of

910
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: the markets? Uh? Now, compared to what we saw the

911
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 1: previous two years, I think we found our footing. There's

912
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: been a bit of a shakeout. I think the shift

913
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,919
Speaker 1: from growth to value has helped people recalibrate their portfolios.

914
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 1: They think they're still going to be more volatility. We're

915
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: still trying to digest what you know, living with inflation

916
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 1: looks like for the longer period of time what shortages

917
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 1: mean in the economy as well. But it seems like

918
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: the markets have found their footing a bit so, a

919
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 1: little bit more driven by fundamentals than maybe it was

920
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. Yeah, that's that sounds that

921
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,520
Speaker 1: sounds about right to me. And just for your own notes, Uh,

922
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: j cause Kaws that tookers available to you know, it's

923
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: just just throwing it out there. We'll take a look

924
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:41,320
Speaker 1: into it. Yeah, I cause it's for good cause cows.

925
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 1: Maybe it's cows. I don't know. Move. What's the movie

926
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: e TF there's a movie cash Cow, Cash, Cash cass

927
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: damn though it has nothing to do with good I

928
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 1: love it anyway. With that said, Jay, fascinating conversation. We

929
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: really appreciate your time, and I hope we can have

930
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 1: you back again to uh to hear what's new with

931
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,719
Speaker 1: the mad except black Rock in the future. Absolutely, thanks

932
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: for having me, Thank you, Jake, what goes up? We'll

933
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 1: be back next week and so then you can find

934
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 1: us on the Bloomberg Terminal website and app or wherever

935
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. We love it if you took

936
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: the time to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts,

937
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: so more listeners can find us, and you can find

938
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: us on Twitter. Follow me at reag Anonymous Bildanna Hirach

939
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: is at Bildanna Hirach. You can also follow Bloomberg Podcasts

940
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:42,319
Speaker 1: at Podcasts. What Goes Up is produced by Stacy Wong.

941
00:49:42,680 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. To see you next time, Oh,