Speaker 1: Welcome to a brand new football week here on te Pez.
Speaker 1: Babo Schusen, longtime radio voice the Jets, ESPN College Football.
Speaker 1: Of course, dan Or Lobsky, longtime NFL quarterback you see
Speaker 1: him all the time at the touch screen on ESPN,
Speaker 1: and my partner on college football, one of the best
Speaker 1: of breaking down tape. And of course Scott Pioli, part
Speaker 1: of the architect group to put together a dynasty in
Speaker 1: New England, longtime NFL general manager as well. We try
Speaker 1: to take you behind the xos and os here on
Speaker 1: this podcast and give you football from the nerd perspective,
Speaker 1: which we all proudly are. And guys, it was an
Speaker 1: ugly week for the Ramps. Gotta drip back into the shotgun.
Speaker 1: Now put Henderson put, He's right here, gotta throw it
Speaker 1: fires right, So intercepted fired twenty ten five in the
Speaker 1: zone cabin fired the a FC defective player. I'm the
Speaker 1: one for October starts November when a bag touchdown Titan. Alright, gentlemen,
Speaker 1: how I opening was this result? All I heard last
Speaker 1: week was Derrick Henry's gone. Titans have no chance. Their
Speaker 1: entire team is built around him. And now you're going
Speaker 1: up against a team that many of us thought might be,
Speaker 1: if not a maybe the Super Bowl favorite to start
Speaker 1: the year coming out of the NFC. So, Dan, how
Speaker 1: I opening was this performance? I guess on both sides.
Speaker 1: Where would you start? Yeah, not all to eye opening
Speaker 1: for me. Um, I'll start with the Rams offense. So
Speaker 1: going into the game, I thought that the Rams offense
Speaker 1: strength wise was when they got into their empty personnel sets,
Speaker 1: meaning five man protection. They do it more and better
Speaker 1: than anybody in the NFL. And Tennessee defensively had struggled
Speaker 1: up until that point defending the empty sets that teams
Speaker 1: had given them. The caveat that I had talked about
Speaker 1: was their defensive line was coming. You know that the
Speaker 1: defensive line that has started to show up for Tennessee
Speaker 1: over the last month five weeks is a different one
Speaker 1: than was in the first month of the season. And
Speaker 1: I thought the game would come down to when the
Speaker 1: Rams got into empty which they do again more than
Speaker 1: anybody in the NFL. Who won that matchup good offensive
Speaker 1: line one on one essentially in protection versus a really
Speaker 1: good and oncoming defensive line, and it was the ladder.
Speaker 1: The defensive line for Tennessee was so dominant in those situations.
Speaker 1: And it really what it did was it minimized the
Speaker 1: strengths of the Los Angeles Rams, It minimized their identity,
Speaker 1: It minimized the thing that they feel most comfortable with.
Speaker 1: And you saw it early on in the game. The
Speaker 1: third play of the game is a five man empty
Speaker 1: protection and the coverage is okay, and Matthews going to
Speaker 1: pull back and hit Cooper Cup on our crosser and
Speaker 1: the rush gets home. And then the second time they
Speaker 1: go to it, which is the very next play, five
Speaker 1: man protection, the rush gets home. And that was really
Speaker 1: the difference of the ballgame for me, was how dominant
Speaker 1: the four man rush with Autry and Landry and Simmons
Speaker 1: was against the five man protection plan by the Los
Speaker 1: Angeles Rams. Obviously, the pick six is a huge part
Speaker 1: of it, and then the backed up interception was a
Speaker 1: huge part of it. So Tennessee defensively, the way they
Speaker 1: rotate and disguise their coverage then tied to their pass
Speaker 1: rush in that game was a huge deal. And I
Speaker 1: for Tennessee's offense, I think the word that I would
Speaker 1: say in relation to Ryan Tannehill right now would be clutch.
Speaker 1: He has become a very clutch quarterback, third best QBR
Speaker 1: in the last month of football and the second half
Speaker 1: of games. Last month of football. They had a tough
Speaker 1: schedule in the NFL as well. So you know, the
Speaker 1: play that I love is they got third and ten.
Speaker 1: It's twenty one nine. It was about twelve minutes to
Speaker 1: go in the ten minutes to go in the third quarter,
Speaker 1: and excuse me, in the fourth quarter, and he had
Speaker 1: Julio Jones on a ten yard hook route against three
Speaker 1: buzz Week where the safety drops down and he moves
Speaker 1: his eyes to get the safety to come to middle
Speaker 1: of field and Julio is one on one back side,
Speaker 1: and he plays with such great timing, vision and anticipation
Speaker 1: with ball placement and he gets it out right as
Speaker 1: Julio comes out of the top of his break, Julio
Speaker 1: catches spins and it converts that third and ten. And
Speaker 1: I just thought that play was so emblematic of how
Speaker 1: clutch Ryan Tinnehill has become when they're gonna need him
Speaker 1: to continue to be without Derrick Henry. Yeah, Dan, just
Speaker 1: comment on a couple of things that you said, and
Speaker 1: to follow up on them. You know, you talk about
Speaker 1: what the defensive line and the defensive front of the
Speaker 1: Tennessee Titans needed to do. And you know, when I
Speaker 1: was getting into coaching, and I had played defensive line
Speaker 1: in college, moved to offensive line, and George di Leon,
Speaker 1: who was a terrific offensive line coach and coordinator up
Speaker 1: at Syracuse University, I remember one of the things he
Speaker 1: used to say all the time was we got to
Speaker 1: get a hat on a hat. And I heard that phrase,
Speaker 1: and I heard offensive line coaches say that for the
Speaker 1: longest time, hat on a hat. We we We've got
Speaker 1: man covered up. But then when I got to the NFL,
Speaker 1: I remember Bill Parcels saying, Okay, Scott, that sounds great,
Speaker 1: But what happens when that hat is better than the
Speaker 1: other hat? And that's exactly what have They had a
Speaker 1: hat on a hat all day long, you know in
Speaker 1: the protection But the hat of Jeffrey Simmons was extraordinary
Speaker 1: the other day, you know. So it goes back to
Speaker 1: again one of the other sayings, which is, you know,
Speaker 1: in critical situations, think of players, not plays. So you
Speaker 1: always have to take into account how good the players are.
Speaker 1: And Dan, you said it, that defensive line is on
Speaker 1: the come. Harold Lanley, Landry is playing well. You know,
Speaker 1: Simmons showed up in a big way this week. So
Speaker 1: to me, that was one of the factors. The other
Speaker 1: thing that was happening going into this game, you know,
Speaker 1: I did a piece on CBS HQ before we before
Speaker 1: that game and one of the things that was standing
Speaker 1: out to me was the Rams and their opponents. And
Speaker 1: and I am a firm believer that once again, your
Speaker 1: record is who you are, or your record says who
Speaker 1: you are. And there were seven and one going into
Speaker 1: the game. Every game that they played, they had gone into,
Speaker 1: you know, needing to win, and they won. They won
Speaker 1: the games that they had to play. But with that,
Speaker 1: they had only played three teams with a winning record,
Speaker 1: or up to this point, they've played three teams with
Speaker 1: a winning record, and they're one and two against those teams.
Speaker 1: They had had this four game win streak, but that
Speaker 1: four game win streak was against Seattle, the Giants, Detroit,
Speaker 1: and Houston. The overall record of the teams that they
Speaker 1: have faced and beat this year is twenty and forty.
Speaker 1: So again, their record is what their record is. They're
Speaker 1: one of the best teams in football. But when you
Speaker 1: go out and you've got hats that are better than
Speaker 1: the other hats. You have twelve penalties for a hundred
Speaker 1: and fifteen yards. Again, you know how I love to
Speaker 1: talk about clean football. Then you have the mistakes and
Speaker 1: the turnovers that were so uncharacteristic for Matthew Stafford. You know,
Speaker 1: you know him far better than me, Dan, But what
Speaker 1: I know from an outside observer, as a scout, as
Speaker 1: an evaluator, he is a smart player that rarely makes
Speaker 1: bad decisions under direct us. The other night he did it.
Speaker 1: He did things that were so un characteristic. And those
Speaker 1: two interceptions, they were costly interceptions. And then again you
Speaker 1: add on the penalties, where this was the least penalized
Speaker 1: team in the National Football League coming into this week
Speaker 1: and they just bombeded with twelve penalties. I wasn't so
Speaker 1: surprised as we were watching the game unfold, saying if
Speaker 1: they don't clean this hot mess up in a hurry,
Speaker 1: it's not going to end well. And it didn't. And Scott,
Speaker 1: I would say that the most surprising aspect of the game,
Speaker 1: and I would really say Tennessee as a football team
Speaker 1: right now is how good their secondary has become at
Speaker 1: kind of their late rotation, changing the picture that they're
Speaker 1: showing a quarterback, and it's it's a rollo dex of coverage.
Speaker 1: You very rarely see the same coverage two situations in
Speaker 1: a row, second and long or third and obvious passage.
Speaker 1: You don't see the same coverage. And I don't care
Speaker 1: how many snaps you have played as a quarterback or
Speaker 1: how many play games you have called as a play caller,
Speaker 1: you are trying to constantly anticipate in guests the coverage
Speaker 1: that you're gonna get from Tennessee as a play caller
Speaker 1: Todd Downing or excuse me, a Sean McVeigh. And then
Speaker 1: as a quarterback, you're constantly trying to see because here's
Speaker 1: the thing. You get covered three and it's three carry, Well,
Speaker 1: your read is different and it's three buzz and you
Speaker 1: read is different, and it's three match and you're reading
Speaker 1: it's different, and Tampa two and you're read is different
Speaker 1: and it's too carry and it's different, it's too Tampa invert.
Speaker 1: So all those different coverages that you're getting thrown at,
Speaker 1: you're trying to figure out which one am I getting?
Speaker 1: And then when I get it, what happens is that
Speaker 1: two tents or three tents of a second that it
Speaker 1: takes for you to confirm which type of coverage it
Speaker 1: is that you're getting post snap. In the rotation of disguise,
Speaker 1: that front has an extra two tents of a three
Speaker 1: seconds to work and that's an eternity. That's an eternity
Speaker 1: in the NFL. And and one other thing that that
Speaker 1: specific pick six what you're talking about the coverages and
Speaker 1: how they're changing coverages and things that they're doing. You know,
Speaker 1: Kevin Byard said after the game that he had a
Speaker 1: pre snap communication. He just felt something and he communicated.
Speaker 1: So the coverage that they showed pre snap and then
Speaker 1: the conversation or the communication right at the snap was
Speaker 1: something completely different because he felt something and that's you know,
Speaker 1: so he he kind of went rogue, but didn't go
Speaker 1: rogue because he communicated it and it looked like one thing,
Speaker 1: it became something else, and in that split second it
Speaker 1: created a problem. And that's one of the things when
Speaker 1: you have smart defensive backs that can communicate well and
Speaker 1: linebackers and they can cover for one another when they're
Speaker 1: going to do something pre snap just because they're sensing
Speaker 1: something that they're seeing something in a formation or they
Speaker 1: see the eyes of a receiver or of a back.
Speaker 1: They can make those adjustments in game and they will
Speaker 1: work out. It doesn't always happened, but that was one
Speaker 1: of the cases where that was a really tough one
Speaker 1: for Matthew Stafford. And just a quick thirty second thought, guys,
Speaker 1: can I throw one more thing out there about Ryan
Speaker 1: Tannehill back to the thought that Dan had about him
Speaker 1: being clutch? You know, I was watching that game and
Speaker 1: it looked like the Rams offense was starting to get
Speaker 1: into a rhythm in the second half. It looked like
Speaker 1: they were gonna start to make, you know, put that
Speaker 1: comeback together. And I'm sitting there going all right, well,
Speaker 1: at this point, now Derrick Henry not being there is
Speaker 1: going to come back and burn the Titans, right and
Speaker 1: to that point. And I'm looking also, like midway through
Speaker 1: the third quarter, I think Ryan Tannehill had like a
Speaker 1: hundred and five yards passing. So I'm sitting there saying,
Speaker 1: all right, well, now, the fact that Ryan Tannehill all
Speaker 1: of these years has just leaned on Derrick Henry and
Speaker 1: lived in play action, it's gonna And then he threw
Speaker 1: that ball to Julio. I remember the exact Paul you're
Speaker 1: talking about and and that was the thought that came
Speaker 1: through my mind. He seems to be the kind of
Speaker 1: guy that makes a throw at the moment it needs
Speaker 1: to be made, and I'm just during it. Both of
Speaker 1: you guys have just a thirty second thought going forward
Speaker 1: with this offense, Like Schematically, do you keep on doing
Speaker 1: what you've always done even with Derrick Henry gone? Or
Speaker 1: Hey I've got Julio, Hey I've got a j Brown.
Speaker 1: Hey I've got these tight ends, Like Scott, what do
Speaker 1: you do? Like do do you change the way that
Speaker 1: you play? Or do you still run the Derrick Henry
Speaker 1: offense with just without Derrek. You know, we talked a
Speaker 1: little bit about this last week and Dan brought up
Speaker 1: a great point. There passed first defense. I'm the offense right,
Speaker 1: they passed its play action. My big concern was gonna
Speaker 1: be can they have the threat of the play action
Speaker 1: without Derrick Henry? Is there going to be enough fear
Speaker 1: instilled or the object of a running back that would
Speaker 1: hold the linebackers into or safety for a split second.
Speaker 1: So I think we decided last week they need to
Speaker 1: stick with what they've got. And here's the other thing.
Speaker 1: You mentioned his numbers and what he was doing in
Speaker 1: that game. You know, there were a couple of really
Speaker 1: really big drops by A. J. Brown and the Titans.
Speaker 1: His numbers would have been better, meaning Ryan Tannehills, what
Speaker 1: they need to do is make sure that they hold
Speaker 1: onto the ball because some of that lack of production
Speaker 1: on paper didn't show up because they were flat out
Speaker 1: drops by A. J. Brown. I would say that you
Speaker 1: keep the identity of your offense. That is who you are.
Speaker 1: That's not only who you are with Derrick Henry. It's
Speaker 1: who your offensive line is, It's who your receivers are,
Speaker 1: it's your quarterback is. So it's it's not you know,
Speaker 1: you've got to do everything that's best for all the
Speaker 1: pieces of your offense. I think with the way their
Speaker 1: defense is playing and the way that their front is playing,
Speaker 1: their identity can't change because they've built their roster around
Speaker 1: trying to get a lead via the air or throwing
Speaker 1: the ball early and then salting games away with the
Speaker 1: run game and you know, the defense. So I think
Speaker 1: that's the way that the roster is constructed, and you
Speaker 1: just got to continue to trust Ryan Tannhill that if
Speaker 1: games come into the second half, he's good enough along
Speaker 1: with those receivers to make plays and then dropped that game. Yep,
Speaker 1: well it was a really really us have win. And
Speaker 1: you're right. He made the big throws when he had
Speaker 1: to make them, and another guy that made huge throws
Speaker 1: when he had to make them was Baker Mayfield. Are
Speaker 1: the Browns better without Odell Beckham? That's something we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about and we come back. And also where might
Speaker 1: Odell Beckham land? What teams make the most sense for him,
Speaker 1: and what type of structure do you have to have
Speaker 1: in place to bring him in. We're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: that and we come back on Tapeds. Welcome back to
Speaker 1: tap its Bobo Schus him along with Scott Pioli and
Speaker 1: Dan Orlovsky want to win. It was for the Browns.
Speaker 1: Here's what Kevin Stefanski had to say about the perseverance
Speaker 1: of his guys after their victory over the Bengals. I
Speaker 1: would tell you, Nate, that's our guys are pros and
Speaker 1: in this game, they're gonna be things that come up
Speaker 1: week to week, uh, that you have to address and
Speaker 1: deal with and and move on. And that's what we did.
Speaker 1: And I felt like the focus was there all week. Well,
Speaker 1: they did have tremendous focus and there was a lot
Speaker 1: to draw their focus away. Obviously, Dan, you you talked
Speaker 1: about us this past week that you can make an
Speaker 1: argument that Baker Mayfield just looks better out there without
Speaker 1: Odell Beckham. Is that the cases their offense better when
Speaker 1: you remove Beckham based on what you saw on Sunday. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's been the case for years. It's two years now,
Speaker 1: and I think Sunday was just an emphatic one because
Speaker 1: it came after the week that was so noisy and
Speaker 1: loud in relation to Odell Beckham. So there's a couple
Speaker 1: of parts of this game that stood out to me. Bob.
Speaker 1: I know, we only focus on Baker Mayfield, right. I
Speaker 1: think first of all, Kevin Stefanski, their head coach and
Speaker 1: play caller, is a better head coach and play caller
Speaker 1: without Odell Beckham Jr. My comments have nothing to do
Speaker 1: with the negative aspect of Odell or any negative aspect
Speaker 1: of Odell. It's just breaking down why they're better. Kevin Stefanski,
Speaker 1: as a play caller, learned cut his teeth and grew
Speaker 1: in the coaching world because he learned how to attack
Speaker 1: defenses with scheme rather than people. Okay, so that's the
Speaker 1: biggest thing to understand when it comes to Kevin Stefenski,
Speaker 1: and when you have a player comes in like Odell Beckham,
Speaker 1: that becomes deviated because you tried to think of Okay,
Speaker 1: I really want to design this play to attack this
Speaker 1: coverage the donophin people's Jones play. But where do I
Speaker 1: play so'dell on this because if I have O'Dell is
Speaker 1: the receiver, I might not get the coverage I want.
Speaker 1: It's always about Kevin Stefanski designing plays to attack defenses,
Speaker 1: and then Baker Mayfield when it comes to playing quarterback
Speaker 1: in this offense. I've heard people say, well, just put
Speaker 1: O'Dell at number one. When I've tried to get people
Speaker 1: to understand your relation to a lot of offenses and
Speaker 1: specifically this one is number one is dependent on what
Speaker 1: the defense is. You know, if I call a play
Speaker 1: and it's covered two, well number one might be this guy.
Speaker 1: And if it's covered four, number one might be this guy.
Speaker 1: And it's covered if it's man coverage, number one might
Speaker 1: be this guy. And when Baker plays without O'Dell, he
Speaker 1: just runs the play. Okay, the play call is X,
Speaker 1: what's the defense? Where's my guys? And stead when O'Dell
Speaker 1: is on the field, he often gets play called is X.
Speaker 1: Where is my guys? What's the defense? And that's where
Speaker 1: the difference between Baker is and you saw it. You know,
Speaker 1: I did a breakdown on get up this week. You
Speaker 1: know Anthony Schwartz on an end route out of empty
Speaker 1: you know, just because it's man coverage, he becomes number
Speaker 1: one and bang, you know, Baker sees it and Tom
Speaker 1: hits it, or the ball in the fourth quarter to
Speaker 1: Donovan People's Jones on a go route. Well, it's just
Speaker 1: because the type of coverage that he got made him
Speaker 1: number one. He's not looking for people anymore. He's looking
Speaker 1: for what the defense is giving him. And I think
Speaker 1: the reality is scott about like the Browns best personnel
Speaker 1: group candidly is thirteen personnel, one back, three tight ends.
Speaker 1: That's their best one because they can play in their
Speaker 1: physical run game and they could also throw the ball
Speaker 1: really well out of it. So when you know, like
Speaker 1: this team is just better because they're best players, they're
Speaker 1: they're tight hands well as at a Nick Chubb and
Speaker 1: so there that that's when they're at their best so
Speaker 1: there's a lot of reasons why the team, a quarterback
Speaker 1: in the coach are better without Odell. Yeah. Dan, you
Speaker 1: talk about the thirteen personnel, it's absolutely We've talked about that,
Speaker 1: you know, weeks ago when they go to three tight
Speaker 1: ends and they bring in the threat of running the ball.
Speaker 1: I mean with the two backs that they have, Nick
Speaker 1: Chubb and I know Kareem Hunt has been injured, but
Speaker 1: they have that one to threat, but also Kareem Hunt
Speaker 1: in terms of throwing the ball out of that personnel
Speaker 1: grouping and the tight ends, they have so many things
Speaker 1: they can do it and and and here's the only
Speaker 1: thing I want to add, and in terms of what
Speaker 1: they become as a running team, and and just up
Speaker 1: from because I think their offensive line is outstanding. Everyone
Speaker 1: talks about the Cowboys. Their offensive line has played and
Speaker 1: produced so well, you know, last year, and they brought
Speaker 1: in Bill Callahan to be their offensive line coach. And
Speaker 1: a lot of people that look at Bill Callahan in
Speaker 1: his past, they remember those moments of when he was
Speaker 1: a head coach or an interim head coach at different
Speaker 1: stations and different stops. I remember Bill Callaghan, the offensive
Speaker 1: line coach who has consistently been one of the best
Speaker 1: offensive line coaches in the National Football League in college
Speaker 1: when he was there, and you know, part of my background,
Speaker 1: I got very spoiled with some of the offensive line
Speaker 1: coaches that I was around, and I saw how important
Speaker 1: they would become in terms of the production of the offense.
Speaker 1: You know, when I first got into the National Football
Speaker 1: I got to mention earlier working for George Dileone, who
Speaker 1: was a fantastic offensive line coach. Then I get into
Speaker 1: the NFL and our offensive line coach at the Cleveland
Speaker 1: Browns is Kirk Ferren's. The assistant offensive line coach is
Speaker 1: Pat Hill, who goes on to be, you know, the
Speaker 1: head coach of Fresido State. And Pat in his own
Speaker 1: in his own way when he was at the University
Speaker 1: of Arizona under coach Tomy when they had a really
Speaker 1: good offense. So Pat was the assistant offensive line coach.
Speaker 1: Go to the Ravens, they're still both there. Then when
Speaker 1: I get to the New York Jets and we have
Speaker 1: Bill Muir, who was an incredible offensive line coach. Then
Speaker 1: I go to the you know, up to New England
Speaker 1: and we've got Dante Scarneckie and I keep mentioning these names,
Speaker 1: that are these premier offensive line coach and they had
Speaker 1: so much to do with the success of the offense
Speaker 1: because what they could do and what they would do
Speaker 1: is identify along with the genius offensive coordinator. Minds is Okay,
Speaker 1: this is where my limitations are on the offensive line.
Speaker 1: We need to find a way to protect the quarterback.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to chip, we're gonna have to keep
Speaker 1: it tight in, We're gonna have to mix certain things
Speaker 1: up in terms of our protection. We need more play action,
Speaker 1: you know. And then I as a career continued Dante
Speaker 1: Scarnetti up at up A New England, then having Bill
Speaker 1: Muir out in Kansas City, so I got very spoiled
Speaker 1: and understand the importance of a really really good offensive
Speaker 1: line coach and how they can help the entire offense.
Speaker 1: And again, getting Bill Callahan was really important for the
Speaker 1: Cleveland Browns in and he's doing a terrific job. Now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I also think the Browns defense played so well. I
Speaker 1: mean and totality, this was the Brown's football team that
Speaker 1: I certainly thought we were going to get this season.
Speaker 1: And yeah, you correct, this just could be a jumping
Speaker 1: off point for them where once they kind of clear
Speaker 1: the drama out that they were having to deal with.
Speaker 1: I mean, they they looked like a team that has
Speaker 1: the capability to go out and now maybe go on
Speaker 1: a run. Now you're you're that You're totally right, Bob,
Speaker 1: that's a fair point. Is there's a lot of season left,
Speaker 1: huge game coming this week against the Patriots, but this
Speaker 1: was by far the best performance defensively, the most complete performance,
Speaker 1: John Johnson creating a turnover their safety that they brought over.
Speaker 1: Miles Garrett right now looks like the defensive player of
Speaker 1: the year. When their secondary is healthy, Newsom's healthy and
Speaker 1: Denzel Ward is healthy, they they're really good. And there
Speaker 1: a zone based defense right now. But what I saw
Speaker 1: against Cincinnati was a team that when they're healthy and
Speaker 1: locked in playing man coverage. Goodness gracious, they can play
Speaker 1: man coverage. And that's the difference maker for for defense
Speaker 1: in the NFL right now, if you can do that,
Speaker 1: because playing zone is what everybody's doing, but if you
Speaker 1: can lock teams up in man, so you know, I
Speaker 1: think that I don't Again, I don't want to pin
Speaker 1: everything on Odell was the reason why I love this
Speaker 1: isn't that. But you know, sometimes when you remove X,
Speaker 1: you know, less is more type of thing that they've
Speaker 1: decided to move on, and their quarterback played well and
Speaker 1: their head coach, you know, it's it's it's not that
Speaker 1: just that the quarterback gets free. It's the head coach
Speaker 1: gets free. And it's maybe not just with play calling either.
Speaker 1: And so you know, if again, if we get this
Speaker 1: version of the Browns moving forward, this would be a
Speaker 1: huge game against the Patriots this weekend and then the
Speaker 1: rest of this season. This could be a a springboard
Speaker 1: type of effect. I gotta see them do it two
Speaker 1: times in a row. Well. And the other aspect of
Speaker 1: the story, of course, is where does Odell Beckham go
Speaker 1: now and what team might be a fit for him
Speaker 1: and Scott I think, you know, kind of a fascinating parallel.
Speaker 1: You know, you were in the room back when your
Speaker 1: group was deciding. Is Randy Moss the right fit. Here's
Speaker 1: an extremely talented player, perceived to have some baggage. We
Speaker 1: bring him in. Can we make it work? Well? I
Speaker 1: think it's probably safe to say you guys made it
Speaker 1: work right. All Tom Brady did was for a fifty
Speaker 1: touchdown passes. You guys almost had a perfect season, So
Speaker 1: obviously you figured out the right formula to make it. Mark.
Speaker 1: So if you're in and I don't know if you
Speaker 1: have maybe particular teams in mind that you think might
Speaker 1: be the right fit for a talent like Odell Beckham,
Speaker 1: but take us inside that room. What's that conversation like
Speaker 1: and what do you think is the structure that needs
Speaker 1: to be in place to bring Odell Beckham in? And
Speaker 1: haven't be the right fit for what team? Yeah? You know,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to make that prediction. And I also
Speaker 1: I want to be clear on on the Randy Moss
Speaker 1: thing um. People keep drawing this comparison in this this
Speaker 1: parallel and and and I think it's unfair and I
Speaker 1: don't want people to do it because I know Randy
Speaker 1: Moss and we knew Randy Moss. Randy moss Um was
Speaker 1: very misunderstood and had some unfair labels. He also had
Speaker 1: a life path that he you know, he has had
Speaker 1: said himself that he started to mature. So I don't
Speaker 1: know where O. B J. Was. I know that when
Speaker 1: we met with Randy, we knew where Randy was at
Speaker 1: and we didn't think Randy was the again the mal
Speaker 1: content that he was being labeled. We didn't think he
Speaker 1: was any of those things. There was this public image
Speaker 1: of him because of some of the things that he
Speaker 1: had done. But again without getting into all the reasons
Speaker 1: that I believe, um, he was made out to be
Speaker 1: a worse person than he ever was. Randy was never
Speaker 1: a bad person. And and and and I don't know
Speaker 1: if O b J is or not. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: he is. So I I always want to tap the
Speaker 1: brakes when people they talk about what we did with
Speaker 1: Corey Dillon, what we did with Randy Moss. And you know,
Speaker 1: we met those players where they were. And I know
Speaker 1: that's a common phrase, but I will say this, where
Speaker 1: those players were, they were all in. We didn't have
Speaker 1: to manage Randy Moss, We didn't have to manage Corey Dillon.
Speaker 1: They were fine. Again, their reputations that preceded them was
Speaker 1: nothing of what we got. So it wasn't really us
Speaker 1: making them better people are better players. They were what
Speaker 1: they were. Now. You know what I do want to
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about Bobs is the situation in Cleveland,
Speaker 1: because I have been a part of circumstances similar um
Speaker 1: to that, and you're sitting there in a situation and
Speaker 1: you know that you've got this distraction. It's not a
Speaker 1: full blown thing, but you're starting to see week by
Speaker 1: week there's these drips of information getting out, and then
Speaker 1: you know, you get the video that came out UM
Speaker 1: that I think allegedly was his his Odell Beckham Senior.
Speaker 1: Believe again, I don't know what that what the truth
Speaker 1: of that was, but there was clear there was a
Speaker 1: problem because then the Cleveland Browns made sure that they
Speaker 1: got out publicly that listen and then no one had
Speaker 1: a name attached to it, but a number of of
Speaker 1: reporters UM started speaking about well, you know, he's an
Speaker 1: undisciplined route runner. He's open, but he's in the wrong spot.
Speaker 1: So both sides started to leak their truth out. Again,
Speaker 1: doesn't matter who's wrong and who's right. Both sides were
Speaker 1: starting linkout. And what happens in a situation like that is, Okay,
Speaker 1: we've got a distraction. The players unhappy, we're unhappy. Both
Speaker 1: side need to make a business decision. You have to
Speaker 1: understand with every decision there's going to be unintended consequences.
Speaker 1: So as the Browns are getting ready to make this decision.
Speaker 1: They understand that they've got someone who's demanding their way
Speaker 1: out and trying to force their way out. If they
Speaker 1: would have just let him go and get what he wanted,
Speaker 1: they would have been setting a precedent that becomes a
Speaker 1: problem in the future that the next time that a
Speaker 1: player wants out, they know that, hey, if I just
Speaker 1: act and do what O'Dell did, I can get out.
Speaker 1: And that's not a good way to learn your business
Speaker 1: because there's always going to be unhappy employees. And the
Speaker 1: other thing is is we had a situation is where
Speaker 1: a player wasn't doing the right thing. Um he was
Speaker 1: being public or his agent was being public. We were
Speaker 1: trying to manage the situation. He started doing things, so
Speaker 1: we had to start finding the player. We had to
Speaker 1: suspend the player. You start this back and forth, but
Speaker 1: here's what happens when you as a club start treating
Speaker 1: a player that way, where you either find the player
Speaker 1: or suspend the player, or or do things. What happens
Speaker 1: is the players have a union and the nfl p
Speaker 1: A will come at you and file a grievance that
Speaker 1: you are inconsistent in your treatment of players. Why did
Speaker 1: you suspend this player for being late for meetings, but
Speaker 1: you didn't suspend this player. Why did you find this
Speaker 1: player the max but not this player the max? So
Speaker 1: when you start moving forward in in situations and circumstances
Speaker 1: like that, there's so much that you need to think
Speaker 1: of big picture, and one of those big picture things
Speaker 1: is setting precedent and how you're going to handle not
Speaker 1: only that situation but other situations moving forward, because you
Speaker 1: may lose in the NFL's court of law. And the
Speaker 1: other thing I'll say about about this is when situations
Speaker 1: like this are going on, your entire locker room is watching.
Speaker 1: They're watching what the head coach does, they're watching what
Speaker 1: the front office does, they're watching what the owner does. Because,
Speaker 1: regardless of what fans think, players like Obi J can
Speaker 1: be polarizing and there's a ton of people who are
Speaker 1: allowed and speaking bad things about him, and there's a
Speaker 1: lot of people that love him. And the people that
Speaker 1: love him are in that locker room, there, in the
Speaker 1: training room, they are in the video room, there, in
Speaker 1: different places. So it's going to be everyone is paying
Speaker 1: attention to how you handle that situation. And if you
Speaker 1: scorch the earth by embarrassing the player, or mistreating the
Speaker 1: player publicly, you have other problems and seeds that are
Speaker 1: planted to have future problems with players. That's awesome, that's
Speaker 1: just awesome perspective. And you're right because the fans of
Speaker 1: the media get rid of them, move on from ob J,
Speaker 1: just dump them. And it just goes to show you
Speaker 1: how many different, like you know, branches to that tree
Speaker 1: there are that a general manager and a coach has
Speaker 1: to think through before you just out and say, okay,
Speaker 1: so just get out the door and hey, look there's
Speaker 1: another quarterback out there that is making plays at an
Speaker 1: m v P level for his team, and that is
Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson. Can they keep living the way they're living
Speaker 1: and winning the way they're winning? Though huge win for
Speaker 1: the ray Evens survive against the Vikings. How they did it,
Speaker 1: that's something we're gonna talk about. We come back on tapeds. Well,
Speaker 1: it was a back and forth, wild slingshot affair between
Speaker 1: the Minnesota Vikings and the Baltimore Ravens. As we returned
Speaker 1: here on tapeds, Bobo Shoes and dani Orlovsky Scott p
Speaker 1: Oli twenty one rushing attempts in the game for Lamar Jackson.
Speaker 1: That was something coach Hardball was asked about after the game,
Speaker 1: and he gave a pretty pointed response. We won. Whatever.
Speaker 1: It's no long term, no long term sustainability observations. It's
Speaker 1: not it's not even relevant. Would you rather not run
Speaker 1: twenty one times today and lose the game? Crazy to
Speaker 1: even suggest that, So it's not even a relevant question
Speaker 1: to be answered. We don't plan on running any number
Speaker 1: of times. We plan on wearing running as much, throwing
Speaker 1: as much, handing it off as much, blitzing as much,
Speaker 1: playing his own coverage as much as you think it
Speaker 1: takes to win the game in the game, and that's
Speaker 1: really what you do. So the sustainability questions are like
Speaker 1: man life, short run to the ball, trying to win
Speaker 1: the game, and we can certainly understand why the coach
Speaker 1: feels that way. Having said that, guys, though, is there
Speaker 1: an expiration date on a player like Lamar Jackson playing
Speaker 1: the way he has to play to win games? Right?
Speaker 1: I mean, if you if you have to run him
Speaker 1: twenty times or more in a game, is that a
Speaker 1: world you can live in? As elusive as he is,
Speaker 1: at some point, is he not going to get hit
Speaker 1: with a kill shot? And now all of a sudden
Speaker 1: your season falls apart. How you balance that, Scott, when
Speaker 1: you're you know, putting together your roster. You got a
Speaker 1: backup quarterback. Can he run the same stuff? I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously can't do the same things Lamar does. It's just
Speaker 1: that balancing act when you're having the discussion during the
Speaker 1: week game planning for a game of what you want
Speaker 1: to do with a player that plays the way Lamar does,
Speaker 1: knowing how important he is to your team. Yeah, and again,
Speaker 1: I don't think you want to make that your general practice,
Speaker 1: right that that's anything. Coach Hardball was saying that this
Speaker 1: is not how we want a game plan for games,
Speaker 1: and I don't think you can or should. That's what
Speaker 1: they had to do to win that particular game. And
Speaker 1: I think Lamar is also much smarter than that, where
Speaker 1: he knows that he that doesn't have a very long
Speaker 1: shelf life because the game is different. Now. Yes, they
Speaker 1: protect the quarterback in the pocket. Yes we've got rules
Speaker 1: that that protect ball carriers a little bit differently, but
Speaker 1: there's still a lot of issues that can come with that.
Speaker 1: Because the other thing that you think about from a
Speaker 1: front office standpoint, at some point in time that rookie
Speaker 1: contract runs out, and the quarterback, if he's as good
Speaker 1: as Lamar, is going to be your team's highest paid player,
Speaker 1: and he should be your highest paid player. So when
Speaker 1: you see activity like that on the field, there is
Speaker 1: this little bit of discomfort. You're scoming in your chair
Speaker 1: a little bit, just like the coaches are scorming on
Speaker 1: the sidelines. But again, if you try to take that
Speaker 1: away from him too much, it's part of his gift,
Speaker 1: it's part of his magic, it's part of the team's success,
Speaker 1: it's part of what the team is depending on him doing.
Speaker 1: But I don't think that you can live knowing that
Speaker 1: your quarterback or go into it in game plan runs
Speaker 1: and you don't want your quarterback running twenty times a
Speaker 1: game because it will have a short shelf life moving forward. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree in many aspects, Scot. Let's say, first of all, Um,
Speaker 1: I used to think that Lamar this wasn't sustainable because
Speaker 1: you know, what quarterback do we have evidence of running
Speaker 1: this much and being able to play a really long
Speaker 1: period of time. The only guy that I could think
Speaker 1: of would be Cam Newton. Now, the difference between Cam
Speaker 1: and Lamar is Cam was an absolute battering ram And
Speaker 1: the kind of the difference with Lamar is, you know, honestly,
Speaker 1: watch the games. He doesn't take big hits and he's
Speaker 1: got this incredible ability I call it spidy sense in
Speaker 1: a way of avoiding big hits. You know, he's always
Speaker 1: Kyler is very similar in that aspect as well. Um
Speaker 1: And so I think that while I've in the past
Speaker 1: been it's so hesitant to have a guy run like
Speaker 1: this until the run and in him taking unnecessary big hits,
Speaker 1: then then my concern of it has wavered. The second
Speaker 1: thing I would say is this twenty runs. Yes, only
Speaker 1: nine of them were designed runs, eleven of them were
Speaker 1: creative dropped back past there down fourteen at halftime, essentially
Speaker 1: with the kickoff return in the second half. So they're
Speaker 1: in a much more throw heavy situation and Lamar is
Speaker 1: just going to be a playmaker. So I can't crush
Speaker 1: the Ravens. They're going well gossh, you can't keep doing
Speaker 1: this guy. Lamar had the ball in his hands and
Speaker 1: was making plays, so that was more him being a scrambler. Um.
Speaker 1: I thought Lamar was remarkable in the second half. Bad
Speaker 1: in the first half. I don't want to say bad
Speaker 1: in the first half. I think the Ravens offense has
Speaker 1: gotten a little drunk with throwing the football downfield. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's they They had more twenty plus attempts in
Speaker 1: the last two weeks coming into this game than anybody
Speaker 1: in football. That's just not who they are. And that
Speaker 1: was really the case in the first half. And you
Speaker 1: saw the interception at the end of the first half
Speaker 1: that kind of showed that. What I liked in the
Speaker 1: second half was two things. Rashad Bateman, their first round
Speaker 1: rookie out of Minnesota, has become the hands catch guy.
Speaker 1: The I gotta get a throw into a tight window,
Speaker 1: a contested catch, It's an important conversion. Bateman has become
Speaker 1: my guy. And while Lamar was great, so was Rashad Bateman.
Speaker 1: And then Hollywood Brown is a guy that I have
Speaker 1: been incredibly critical of. And one of the reasons was
Speaker 1: is he was a one trick pony, so to speak.
Speaker 1: All you all you can do is run down the
Speaker 1: field and then two out of every ten times you
Speaker 1: drop it. And I like the fact that they used
Speaker 1: Hollywood on the perimeter almost the way the Chiefs used
Speaker 1: Tyreek Hill. We're gonna get the ball in his hands
Speaker 1: out in the perimeter, and so it went from throwing
Speaker 1: the football down the field so much too, We're gonna
Speaker 1: get the ball to the perimeter. Bateman is gonna make
Speaker 1: contested catches. Hollywood, go make something happen. I thought Hollywood
Speaker 1: did that three or four times of turning something into
Speaker 1: nothing or a little into big, and I wanted to
Speaker 1: give those guys their props in relation to how great
Speaker 1: Lamar has been. I think the Ravens have issues um
Speaker 1: their defense. If their defensive line does not dominate, you
Speaker 1: can get after that secondary, specifically if they don't get
Speaker 1: hands on you at the line of scrimmage. So I
Speaker 1: think Lamar was amazing. Those two receivers stepped up, but
Speaker 1: I'm still hesitant that the team can sustain this play
Speaker 1: given how dependent on the d line the defenses. And
Speaker 1: then just to follow up one thing that you said
Speaker 1: that it was part of Bob's question, which was a
Speaker 1: great question. How sustainable is this? You know you mentioned
Speaker 1: how he doesn't take direct hits, meaning Lamar, and I
Speaker 1: go back to a phrase I heard early on in
Speaker 1: my scouting career was a scout talking about how the
Speaker 1: quarterback didn't take hits like a good boxer. He didn't
Speaker 1: take direct punches. And I remember this scout talking to
Speaker 1: me about Mohammad Ali and his greatness early in his career.
Speaker 1: How because of his quickness and his ability and his movement,
Speaker 1: he was able to knock guys out because he could
Speaker 1: slip punches as well as any boxer in in the sport.
Speaker 1: Then came Sugar Ray Leonard, who never really took many
Speaker 1: hard hits. Could they just have that ability to slip punches?
Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson has that ability to slip punches, slip hits,
Speaker 1: but again as the career goes on, that ability to
Speaker 1: slip those punches made deteriorate. Well, they will kick off
Speaker 1: Thursday night because that is the start of week ten.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be after a twenty one carry overtime kind
Speaker 1: of slugfest with the Vikings, right back at it on
Speaker 1: the short week for the Ravens on Thursday night in
Speaker 1: Miami against the Dolphins. So that'll be again we're gonna
Speaker 1: talk about. We'll also we come back on Thursday be
Speaker 1: talking about was how Eyebrow raising a loss? Was this
Speaker 1: for the Cowboys and a quarterback that we could be
Speaker 1: overlooking this season? There's a guy that's not getting a
Speaker 1: lot of publicity, that's kind of under the radar, keeping
Speaker 1: his team in the conversation, and having a great year.
Speaker 1: Those are things we're gonna be talking about. We come
Speaker 1: back with another episode coming up on Thursday. We love
Speaker 1: for you to rate, comment and subscribe. We'll talk to
Speaker 1: you Thursday. Thanks for being a tape. Tape is a
Speaker 1: production of iHeartMedia and the NFL. You can download the
Speaker 1: tape Heeds podcast on the i Heart app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.