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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm Pim Fox.

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Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Abramowitz. Each day we

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Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for

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Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store

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Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L

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Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot com. This

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Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Markets with Them Fox and Lisa Abramowitz on

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. My co host and colleague, Lisa Abramowitz is

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Speaker 1: on holiday for this July fourth week. But he's not

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Speaker 1: on holiday, Leo Grohowski. He is the chief investment officer

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Speaker 1: for b n y Melon Wealth Management, helping to manage

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Speaker 1: nearly two hundred and fifty billion dollars. He joins us

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Speaker 1: in our eleven three oh studios. Leo, thanks for coming

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Speaker 1: in happy July four Um, tell me about people's perception

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Speaker 1: of how markets, how equity more cots specifically have behaved,

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Speaker 1: because if you look at the SMP five hundred, we're

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Speaker 1: up not even one and a half percent so far

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Speaker 1: for the year. But if you're invested in stocks like

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Speaker 1: Netflix or Amazon dot Com, you've got a different perspective

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Speaker 1: on how the market is done. Yeah, no, no doubt, PAM.

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Speaker 1: I think UM. Also, after last year, I think investors, UM,

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Speaker 1: most of them ratcheted down their expectations for this year

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Speaker 1: as a whole. And so as we tally sort of

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Speaker 1: the mediear report card, you know, returns are very unexciting, UM,

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Speaker 1: low single digits for most balanced portfolios. And this remains

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Speaker 1: a very unloved market. I mean an investors sentiment has

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Speaker 1: actually moved to the negative side and uh, and so

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Speaker 1: there's enough skepticism out there where it's become more palpable.

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Speaker 1: And UM, I think when you combine that with investors,

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Speaker 1: you know, looking at a lot of profits over the years, UM,

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Speaker 1: it's not a surprise to see some selling pressure here

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Speaker 1: on the on the equity markets. Where does the activity

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Speaker 1: come from? Oh my goodness, I think, uh, just you know,

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Speaker 1: open up the paper, you know, watch the TV programs,

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Speaker 1: and most of it is on the geo political front.

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Speaker 1: And certainly today market participants are very concerned about UM

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Speaker 1: tariffs and trade and UH elections and what's going on

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Speaker 1: in Germany and the UK with Brexit. So that the

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Speaker 1: big picture macro geo political front UM is I think

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Speaker 1: of most concern The good news is we're going to

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Speaker 1: quickly you know, move into earning season here and and

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Speaker 1: finally we'll have more fundamental news to sink our teeth into.

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Speaker 1: But it's really been about the the global headlines macroeconomically

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Speaker 1: and geo politically. The earnings reports. Uh, you've got to

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Speaker 1: kind of make the sort of distinction between gap earnings

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Speaker 1: and non gap earnings, right, because when you look at

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Speaker 1: the non gap burnings, things that doing just great, but

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Speaker 1: when you look at gap earnings, it kind of tells

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Speaker 1: a different story. Yeah, I think I think most market

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Speaker 1: participants and most strategists are looking at you know, operating

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Speaker 1: earnings for the SMP this year, um, and we are,

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Speaker 1: you know, somewhere between one and one sixties. So if

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Speaker 1: you take the midpoint of that and a market at

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Speaker 1: you know, the market's trading at what I think is

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Speaker 1: a pretty undemanding pe multiple of seventeen times in the

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Speaker 1: context of a tenure treasury at two eight five. Take

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Speaker 1: that out to next year, we've got what we think

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Speaker 1: is a pretty conservative thought around earnings at one seventy

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Speaker 1: the markets that are multiple of just under sixteen times.

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Speaker 1: So UM, the market feels more expensive than it really is,

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Speaker 1: and the market not having done much while earnings have

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Speaker 1: been so strong, has really allowed valuation to get back

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Speaker 1: into what we consider to be the reasonable territory. Does

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Speaker 1: the FED continue to raise interest rates along that four

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Speaker 1: plant path? And you know it's a tough call, but

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Speaker 1: if you forced me into the yes or no, I

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Speaker 1: would have to say yes. Particularly on the heels of

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Speaker 1: Friday's PC report, right, we're sort of getting into holiday mode.

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Speaker 1: I didn't find a lot of investors focusing on but

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Speaker 1: the personal consumption expenditure index at the core came into

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Speaker 1: two percent, right, and the headline was two point three,

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Speaker 1: a little hotter than what most we're expecting. And I

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Speaker 1: think with that being a critical component in the FEDS

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Speaker 1: quis and art of decision making, um, I would say

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Speaker 1: that that the leaning is for them to end up

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Speaker 1: doing four. So add to your equity holdings. Now, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know we're we have been and remain overweight equity. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So a lot depends on you know, have you rebalanced lately, right,

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Speaker 1: but we would be modestly overweight in equities, favoring US

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Speaker 1: equities and favoring small and mid cap small cap unlike

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Speaker 1: our comments earlier, you know, had a really good quarter

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Speaker 1: up nearly eight percent on the Russell on the Russell

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Speaker 1: two thousand. I would be looking at this more as

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Speaker 1: an entry point than exit point for most investors. And

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Speaker 1: we're still looking at money market funds here in the

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Speaker 1: US with two point eight three trillion dollars in cash.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of dry powder out there, and are

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Speaker 1: they waiting what for interest rates to increase and then

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Speaker 1: make something out of that money, because yet's still going

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Speaker 1: to be taxed and you're not going to really end

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Speaker 1: up with much more than inflation. And a lot of

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Speaker 1: that cash has been waiting for quite some time really

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Speaker 1: for the big pullback in the market, right, the twenty

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Speaker 1: percent plus correction that many have felt. You know, clearly,

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Speaker 1: with all of the challenges out there and how well

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Speaker 1: the markets have done, we must be due for that correction.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of market timers, I mean, people

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Speaker 1: really think they can time this well. I think there

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Speaker 1: are enough of them that certainly have a lot of

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Speaker 1: money sitting in either cash or near cash, that have

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Speaker 1: really set out a pretty good portion of this bull market. Right.

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Speaker 1: It's been very dangerous to be an investor concerned about

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Speaker 1: wealth preservation when you also have to digest the news

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Speaker 1: flows weekend in week out. Yet, uh, you know, we're

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Speaker 1: looking at a market that's up in nine years, and

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Speaker 1: so I think a lot of investors field they missed

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Speaker 1: that big run and need to wait for sort of

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Speaker 1: the big pull back. That's not our view, but that's

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Speaker 1: what I sense when I'm out traveling the country. Do

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Speaker 1: you get the impression and that people are really paying

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Speaker 1: attention to what's going on with the U S treasuries?

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Speaker 1: And excuse me, whether that three percent threshold, you know,

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Speaker 1: is such a big deal, particularly for the thirty year

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Speaker 1: or even for the ten years, not not so much.

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Speaker 1: I was in here a few months ago and we were,

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of where we are now on the

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Speaker 1: cusp of three percent, and we actually exceeded that three

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Speaker 1: percent for a while. I think it's a psychological level

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Speaker 1: which will cause a pause, right, But I think we've

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Speaker 1: already recalibrated, right. A lot of the the earlier part

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Speaker 1: of this year was about recalibrating first to higher earnings

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Speaker 1: and then quickly to the potential for higher interest rates,

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Speaker 1: including a three percent treasury. So I would argue most

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Speaker 1: of that is in the market. But let's have the

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Speaker 1: conversation if fields or three and a half to four

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Speaker 1: percent on the tenure Treasury note, that would be a

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Speaker 1: surprise and something the market is not equipped to handle

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Speaker 1: at these levels. What about consumer spending? Will that filter

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Speaker 1: into let's say a call for this consumer discretionary stocks.

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Speaker 1: You know, consumer discretionary stocks have really taken it on

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Speaker 1: the chin um and um. The consumer balance sheet and

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Speaker 1: now income statement is in very very good shape. So

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Speaker 1: you know here too, we we we are and have

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Speaker 1: been underweight in the sector. But if we're thinking about

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Speaker 1: the next twelve to eighteen months entry or exit point,

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Speaker 1: probably be looking more at an entry point given how

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Speaker 1: weak the group has been. But let's keep in mind

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Speaker 1: a lot of these stocks are dependent on imports, supply

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Speaker 1: chain involving China, and so there's gonna be a bit

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Speaker 1: of a cloud of uncertainty. I think overhanging this consumer

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Speaker 1: discretionary sector for a bit. But consumer balance sheets, income

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Speaker 1: statements are in good shape. And this Friday we get

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Speaker 1: an employment report that should be another good one. What

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Speaker 1: do you think, what are we going to get? Kind

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Speaker 1: of well, the over under on nonfarm payroll is looking

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Speaker 1: like around two hundred, right, and uh, I think many

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Speaker 1: folks won't be around to be seeing it, but I

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Speaker 1: would be, you know, thinking that that feels about right.

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Speaker 1: I think the bigger number to watch will be average

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Speaker 1: hourly earnings, right, because that's what set the market, and

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Speaker 1: it is in in February when we got a hot

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Speaker 1: number there, so that's the number we're focusing on. Thanks

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Speaker 1: very much as always, Leo Grohowski. He is the chief

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Speaker 1: investment officer for b n y Melon Wealth Management, helping

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Speaker 1: to manage nearly two hundred and fifty billion dollars. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Markets, I'm pim Fox Tesla. The company

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Speaker 1: says it has reached a milestone that is critical to

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk's goll to bring electric cars to the masses.

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Speaker 1: Is having to do with the production target for the

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Speaker 1: Model three five thousand of the Sedans in the last

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Speaker 1: week of the second quarter. Here to tell us more,

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Speaker 1: Liam Denning our energy mining and commodities columnists for Bloomberg Opinion,

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Speaker 1: and you can follow Liam on Twitter at Liam Denning.

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Speaker 1: All right, Liam Denning as the energy mining and commodities calumnists.

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Speaker 1: You get a nice little sort of change in a

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Speaker 1: way because you get to talk about an auto company.

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't necessarily get that in most things. But um,

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Speaker 1: this has to do with the battery technology and the

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Speaker 1: ability of of Tesla to sort of leverage this technology.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of the milestone achievement? So, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a milestone, it's been achieved. I

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Speaker 1: think the bigger question we have to ask ourselves with

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Speaker 1: Tesla is what do these milestones really means? So you know,

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Speaker 1: if we break it down, last week of of June,

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Speaker 1: they produced just over five thousand model threes. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: thereby reaching the target that that Elon Musk had set

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Speaker 1: we should say, a much reduced target from what was

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Speaker 1: originally envisaged about two years ago. Um. But then if

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Speaker 1: you if you look at the rest of the quarter,

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Speaker 1: actually production taking last week out averaged about two thousand

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Speaker 1: a week. So clearly this, uh, this final kind of

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Speaker 1: burst week for the quarter was was really engineered by

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Speaker 1: the company. They really wanted to hit that target. Um.

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Speaker 1: But you know, we're talking about a sixty billion dollar

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Speaker 1: company here, and if you're really going to value Tesla

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Speaker 1: at that level, it needs to be able to show

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Speaker 1: that it can actually produced, you know, high quality cars

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Speaker 1: at high volume, day in, day out, and I think

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Speaker 1: as much as people bid the stock up Monday morning,

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Speaker 1: it's actually slightly down at this point, correct. But that

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Speaker 1: initial pop I think reflected people saying, hey, let's hit

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Speaker 1: the target. That's great, um, but really you need to

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Speaker 1: be thinking about the bigger picture here, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: what's the sustainable production rate? All right? You you before

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Speaker 1: you came in, you said that you had been in

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Speaker 1: a conference in Las Vegas having to do with one

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Speaker 1: if you could just describe sort of your larger, your

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Speaker 1: bigger picture perspective on the future of battery powered, electric

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Speaker 1: charged vehicles, So I will. I'm definitely in the camp

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Speaker 1: that I think electrification of vehicles is at this point

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Speaker 1: and unstoppable trend, unstoppable, unstoppable now and certainly the the

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Speaker 1: the theme I took away from last week's conference on

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Speaker 1: on lithium is that, broadly speaking, the the line showing

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Speaker 1: where electrification of vehicles is going m is going up. Now.

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Speaker 1: People debate what the steepness of that line is, you know,

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Speaker 1: but even the most bearish skeptical guys that I met

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Speaker 1: last week don't think that electrification is a fad uh

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Speaker 1: and will kind of just peter out. I think there

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Speaker 1: are good reasons, particularly pertaining to the biggest growth market

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Speaker 1: for auto's i China and to an extent, India, they

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Speaker 1: have good reasons to electrify their vehicle fleet. They also

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Speaker 1: don't have quite the same um infrastructure legacy that we

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Speaker 1: have here, uh, which in some ways gets in the

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Speaker 1: way of electrification. Do costs need to keep coming down, Yes,

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Speaker 1: but historically they have been coming down, and there are

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Speaker 1: just good reasons to to to go for that, whether

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Speaker 1: it's it's um you know, it's combating pollution, whether it's

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Speaker 1: combating dependence on oil imports, which is a growing problem

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Speaker 1: for for China and India. So yeah, I am. I

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Speaker 1: am optimistic about the future of electric cars, whether Tesla

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Speaker 1: will dominate that and thereby justify at sixty billion dollar valuation.

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Speaker 1: I'm much more skeptical. The electric car scenario though, comes

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Speaker 1: with a big sort of input, which is someone's going

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Speaker 1: to have to produce that electricity in order to charge

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Speaker 1: all those batteries. Is that going to be renewable sources

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Speaker 1: or do you believe it's going to be a mix

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Speaker 1: of renewable as well as fossil fuel. I think if

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Speaker 1: you're talking today, it's absolutely a mix of both, and

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Speaker 1: in China, for example, a lot of it is coal.

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Speaker 1: And that's one of the criticism and level against electric

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Speaker 1: vehicles that were simply swapping one set of emissions for another.

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Speaker 1: I think what that misses is that over time, renewables

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Speaker 1: are becoming a much bigger part of the generation mix.

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Speaker 1: And if you think about a battery electric vehicle, it's

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Speaker 1: essentially a platform that allows you to use different forms

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Speaker 1: of energy inputs over time, whereas obviously an internal combustion

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Speaker 1: engine it burns oil. That's all it ever does in

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Speaker 1: that In that scenario, do you believe that the US

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Speaker 1: automobile makers like GM and Ford and even uh Fiart Chrysler,

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Speaker 1: do they have the technological wherewithal to take advantage of

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Speaker 1: this trend. I'm certain they have the technological know how,

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Speaker 1: and GM, you know, obviously is making pretty good progress

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Speaker 1: on it in a much less flashy way than say

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Speaker 1: Tesla UM. I think the bigger problem for those companies

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Speaker 1: is that UM they're they're having to deal with a

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Speaker 1: much more multi speed world. In yeah, they have to

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Speaker 1: do to at least two things. At the same time,

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Speaker 1: they've got to make profits selling the cars that currently

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Speaker 1: exist given the infrastructure, Plus they have to plan for

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Speaker 1: the future that you're describing. And also a third element,

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Speaker 1: which is that a lot of their growth is in

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Speaker 1: other countries that have a very different outlook from what

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Speaker 1: we have here in in the US, and so in

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Speaker 1: some ways they're having to spread their R and D

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Speaker 1: budgets in a in a much more complex way than

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Speaker 1: they would have had to do. You know, ten twenty

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Speaker 1: years ago, what did you take away from the conference

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Speaker 1: that you went to in Las Vegas having to do

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Speaker 1: with lithium. Of course one of the inputs for lithium

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Speaker 1: IAM batteries. I think the biggest takeaway was that this

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Speaker 1: industry is sort of at this moment where it's poised

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Speaker 1: between greed and fear. So uh, lithium stocks sold sold

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Speaker 1: off quite heavily earlier this year after a massive run

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Speaker 1: up in sen and I think the problem is is

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Speaker 1: this they do will see this future of greater electrification,

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Speaker 1: which will require much higher lithium production. Most people are

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Speaker 1: looking at the horizon of the early The problem is

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Speaker 1: they need to get financing to produce the lithium and

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Speaker 1: a lot of these companies are pretty small, and even

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Speaker 1: though the the investment needs put it like fifteen to

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Speaker 1: twenty billion, that's a lot of money for this sector.

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Speaker 1: So they need to persuade people to actually start investing

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Speaker 1: in these projects. Thank you very much for being with me.

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Speaker 1: Liam Denning always a pleasure, Energy mining and commodities columnist

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Speaker 1: for Bloomberg Opinion. Follow him on Twitter at Liam Denning.

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Speaker 1: Coming up Bloomberg Politics, Policy, power and Law. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 1: I'm Pim Fox. This is Bloomberg Markets with Pim Fox

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Speaker 1: and Lisa Abramowitz on Bloomberg Radio. As Amazon explorers ways

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Speaker 1: to expand its delivery capacity, from leasing its own cargo

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Speaker 1: planes to experimenting with drones, it is also moving into

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Speaker 1: a new business to allow individuals to start their own

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Speaker 1: delivery business with as little as ten thousand dollars of

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Speaker 1: an investment. Here to tell us more about this is

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Speaker 1: Satisha Jendal. He is the president of s J Consulting Group.

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Speaker 1: And Satisha, you're an expert when it comes to moving

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Speaker 1: things from point A to point B. Just give people

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Speaker 1: a little bit of your background and what would you

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Speaker 1: do if you were running a logistics company? In Amazon

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Speaker 1: said they're getting into your business. Well do you know

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Speaker 1: do then it is so relevant here that what Amazon

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Speaker 1: is doing is in many ways duplicating with minor changes

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Speaker 1: the model that RPS, which is today known as FedEx

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Speaker 1: ground with generals fifteen sixteen billion and annual revenue, started

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Speaker 1: with that model, and that is to leverage it's the

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Speaker 1: entrepreneurial spirit of American people and give them an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to own a business and be part of a bigger enterprise.

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Speaker 1: And FedEx clown approach to this is what they called

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Speaker 1: i s P. Independent service provider. Amazon calls them, you know,

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Speaker 1: delivery service partners, and it has got the similar model

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Speaker 1: here where individual can set up a business, hires some

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Speaker 1: employees to drive for them least vehicles, so buy them.

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Speaker 1: And what Amazon is doing is no surprise to the

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Speaker 1: companies like UPS and fair X because Amazon is such

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Speaker 1: a huge shipper with seven million packages a day and

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Speaker 1: tim to put it in context, that is almost two

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Speaker 1: and a half times more then the volume DHL was

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Speaker 1: delivering in two thousand eight to night before it left

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Speaker 1: this country. So she's how people your expertise when it

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Speaker 1: comes to OURPS, which is as you describe this now

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Speaker 1: FedEx Ground, so they understand where you're coming from. You know,

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Speaker 1: I was part of the founding team. I helped with

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Speaker 1: that model, with the change that that went about. I've

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Speaker 1: worked directly for the CEO, Den Sullivan, who was a

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Speaker 1: great mentor for me. And the success of FedEx Ground

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Speaker 1: is to a large extent based upon being able to

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Speaker 1: leverage that model, which allows you to have a large

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Speaker 1: fleet of delivery vehicles and people without you having to

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Speaker 1: put up the Capitol's just kind of like the way

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Speaker 1: McDonald's and Subway and and other companies expand using a

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Speaker 1: franchise model. This is in some ways akin to that,

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Speaker 1: and I think it is a very good approach for

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Speaker 1: Amazon to have expanded delivery capability because it cannot rely

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Speaker 1: upon the other three big partners that it has to

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Speaker 1: meet its growing need. What role do you think the

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Speaker 1: brand of having Amazon on the side of those trucks

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Speaker 1: and on the uniforms of those making the deliveries will

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Speaker 1: have on the success of this business. It is huge

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Speaker 1: that brand is more recognized than the ups and FedEx

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Speaker 1: at this point, Steven. Though it's a younger company, startup

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Speaker 1: costs are estimated to be as low as ten thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: Do you buy that? Yeah, because you don't need much

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Speaker 1: in startup cost, and you can lease vehicles, You can

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Speaker 1: lease the technology you're gonna need, which most people already

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Speaker 1: have is your smartphone. Every driver had its own personal one.

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Speaker 1: Just reward them for making use off it. And you

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Speaker 1: can start with a few drivers, and as you expand,

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Speaker 1: you have the resources and you can uh it just

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Speaker 1: exactly the way FedEx does it. Will this take business

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Speaker 1: away from FedEx and UPS? Now that's a little complicated question,

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Speaker 1: and I'll try and answer it for your audience. One

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Speaker 1: is the about of Amazon. Business today is being done

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Speaker 1: by USPS, UPS and FedEx in that order. In terms

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Speaker 1: of volume going forward, I expect the total volume between

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Speaker 1: the three to remain the same from Amazon. But because

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Speaker 1: Amazon is growing at all, that growth that they're bringing in,

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Speaker 1: I see that moving to these new options and approaches

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Speaker 1: that they're taking, so they will get the smaller percentage

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Speaker 1: of Amazon volume, but an absolute volume, it will not

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Speaker 1: be any less. Last point to you, the President has

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Speaker 1: talked about a potential reset of US postal service shipping

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Speaker 1: rates because of Amazon. What can you tell us about

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Speaker 1: that relationship? Just to put it into some context. You know,

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Speaker 1: it is a relationship that works for both Uh. Post

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Speaker 1: Office is better off as a result of having Amazon volume,

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Speaker 1: and Amazon is better off. But I would say that

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Speaker 1: the if this DSP program that Amazon has rolled out

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Speaker 1: probably was in the making already. But hearing that the

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Speaker 1: President is putting his weight behind this relationship, that could

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Speaker 1: potentially result in a slightly higher price the Post Office

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Speaker 1: may have to ask Amazon. Amazon is prepared to say,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a certain limit to which I can absorb. Otherwise,

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Speaker 1: I've got my own network to create a competitive response.

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Speaker 1: So you know, yeah, you can relate, but I've got

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Speaker 1: other option. Thanks very much. Satis Jendle, He is the

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Speaker 1: president of s J Consulting, talking about Amazon and the

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Speaker 1: logistics business. Shares of Amazon are up nearly forty year

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Speaker 1: to day. You're listening to Bloomberg Markets with Tim Fox

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Speaker 1: and Lisa Bramoetz on Bloomberg Radio. Bloomberg Markets has brought

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Speaker 1: you by Commonwealth Financial Network, home to the industry's most

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Speaker 1: satisfied advisers. Prepared to be swept off your feet by

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Speaker 1: the broker dealer r I, A who has been putting

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Speaker 1: relationships first since nineteen seventy nine. Visit Commonwealth dot com.

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Speaker 1: Well chocolate specifically chocolate from Hershey and other food items

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Speaker 1: from Treehouse Foods. They are going to feel the effects

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Speaker 1: of counter tariffs that were put in place by Canada.

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Speaker 1: They're just some of the companies that are going to

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Speaker 1: be affected by this move. Here to tell us more

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Speaker 1: about what's going to happen in Canada as a result

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Speaker 1: of these countermeasures is Carl Schramada. He is the chief

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Speaker 1: strategist for Cambridge Global Payments, joining us from Toronto. Carl,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much for being with us. Maybe you

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Speaker 1: could just outline exactly what you believe the effects are

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Speaker 1: going to be on the Canadian economy and then we

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Speaker 1: can kind of get into the details. Sure, so you know,

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Speaker 1: certainly the escalation intentions and the direct costs of the

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Speaker 1: Canadian economy are likely to be fairly substantial. Here. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's been a real shift and sentiment among Canadian businesses

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Speaker 1: in recent months, a lot of concern about whether the

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Speaker 1: US markets will remain as robust as they have been,

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Speaker 1: and as a result, we're seeing a toll taken on

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Speaker 1: business investment. However, you know, when we look at the

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Speaker 1: Grand scheme of things. This still remains effectively a rounding

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Speaker 1: error in the in the grand scheme of trade between

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Speaker 1: Canada and the United States. If NAFTA is not renegotiated successfully,

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Speaker 1: will that still be a rounding error? No? Uh no,

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Speaker 1: that would certainly be sort of the nuclear option with

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Speaker 1: respect to trade between the two countries. Um. That would

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Speaker 1: reset US most likely to w t O rules, which

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Speaker 1: would imply a rise in tariffs and a dramatic slowdown

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Speaker 1: in trade as well as investment flows into Canada, and

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Speaker 1: Canada does remain heavily dependent on investment flows from the

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Speaker 1: international community, so you know, this is something that that

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Speaker 1: negotiators on both sides I believe are looking to avoid

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Speaker 1: at this point. Would this be a short term or

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Speaker 1: a long term effect? If we see NAP to fall apart,

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Speaker 1: we have a short term knee jerk reaction that would happen,

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Speaker 1: and that would uh you know, likely push Canada very

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Speaker 1: close to recession. Um. However, in the longer run you

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Speaker 1: would see things equalize a bit. So the first thing

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Speaker 1: and probably most important thing that happens with this type

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Speaker 1: of trade negotiation is a effects related effect. If we

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Speaker 1: see depreciation and the Canadian dollar. That puts Canada on

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Speaker 1: a more competitive footing and tends to uh outweigh some

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Speaker 1: of the impact of higher terraffs. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: in the long run, which you could see here is

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Speaker 1: a bit of a snap back in the in the

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Speaker 1: Canadian economy. UM. But of course that initial toll would

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Speaker 1: be quite devastating, Carl. Would we see an increase in

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Speaker 1: inflation in Canada in as much as the Canadian government

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Speaker 1: is putting tariff on steel products, ten percent on aluminum

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Speaker 1: and consumer goods uh so far so, as far as

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Speaker 1: our models suggests, we're looking at a point one percent

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Speaker 1: increase in Canada's official inflation rate. UM. The reason being

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Speaker 1: that this is you know, extremely small. Um. If you

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Speaker 1: look at the overall amount that's involved, it's about twelve

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Speaker 1: point six billion US dollars UM. So you know, when

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Speaker 1: you look at that against overall trade, that is not

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Speaker 1: enough to you know, really shake the household budget in Canada. UM.

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Speaker 1: Of course, if Trump does move forward with auto tariffs

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Speaker 1: and things like that, that would change that picture and uh,

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Speaker 1: and you would have a resulting impact on inflation. Now,

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Speaker 1: all of that said, uh, you know, that's the tariff impact,

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Speaker 1: but the fact is that the Canadian dollar has fallen

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Speaker 1: roughly five percent on trade related fear, and that also

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Speaker 1: has a follow through effect on inflation in Canada. And

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Speaker 1: if I devely crimp's household budgets, what is the current

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Speaker 1: thinking in Canada about the potential for automobile tariffs. The

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Speaker 1: current thinking, I think is that it's mutually assured destruction. Um.

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Speaker 1: The numbers really suggest that the United States runs a

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Speaker 1: small surplus with Canada in autos and auto parts um,

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Speaker 1: and that that Trump will run into, you know, very

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Speaker 1: stiff domestic opposition if he does move forward with with

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Speaker 1: applying tariffs on the sector. Um. And of course you know,

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Speaker 1: if he does apply it to Canada, he also has

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Speaker 1: to apply it to the EU in some sense, and that,

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Speaker 1: you know, brings US really into a full scale trade

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Speaker 1: trade war against uh, you know, parties that Trump may

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Speaker 1: not want to antagonize to that degree. UM. But I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, the interesting thing here is that if if

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Speaker 1: you look at how the EU and Canada are responding

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Speaker 1: so far, it is very much a political political game

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Speaker 1: that is a foot here. Um. You know, I think

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Speaker 1: the Canadian negotiators and the EU negotiators understand that trade

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Speaker 1: imbalances are fund are fundamentally financial imbalances. So what they're

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Speaker 1: doing is targeting Trump allies, congressional districts that that support Trump,

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Speaker 1: and and particularly large businesses in those congressional districts. And

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Speaker 1: so you know, if you look at one sector that

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Speaker 1: that commands an immense amount of respect in the American

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Speaker 1: political establishment, that's the auto sector. So I would not

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Speaker 1: suspect that that, you know, that things go too too

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Speaker 1: far in that in that area. Carl Schamana, thank you

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Speaker 1: very much, Chief strategist Cambridge Global Payments, joining us from Toronto,

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Speaker 1: speaking about Canada's economy and retaliatory tariffs against the United States.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Markets. Thanks for listening to the

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00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: Bloomberg P and L podcast. You can subscut, gribe and

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Speaker 1: listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, or whatever podcast

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Speaker 1: platform you prefer. I'm Pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at

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Speaker 1: pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at Lisa Abramo wits one.

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