WEBVTT - Trump Tariffs Roil Markets, Musk's DOGE In Action 0:00:01.200 --> 0:00:05.480 From the heart of where innovation, money and power collide 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:11.040 in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:13.680 Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow. 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:28.760 Live from New York and Caroline. 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:31.920 Hyde and I'm Jackie Devalas in San Francisco. This is 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:33.479 Bloomberg Technology coming up. 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.760 All eyes on President Trump's tariffs on Mexico, Canada and 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:40.639 China roiling global markets. Plus another big week for tech 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:42.920 earnings coming up with Panete kicking it off after the 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:46.440 closing bell today, and a look at Elon Musk's doge 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:50.199 drive as he claims to cancel payments to federal contractors. 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:53.280 For first the story of the day, we move markets 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:55.640 on the back of tariff. There is talk now coming 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:58.000 that potentially those tarifs arelayed by a month, coming from 0:00:58.040 --> 0:01:00.400 the President of Mexico. We're off of our lows eight 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:02.760 ten percent on the Nastak one hundred. We're nowhere near 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:05.759 the sell off of this time last week in reverberations 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:08.000 to deep seek, but we are down nonetheless as a 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:10.200 global story unfolds. Move on, Look at what happened to 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:12.000 the world of crypto over the course of the weekend. 0:01:12.040 --> 0:01:14.759 This was your liquid ascid of choice. We fell hard 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:16.800 on Sunday. We're now off by three percent over the 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:19.280 last three training days, but we climb back off of 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:21.080 today's lows. Move on and have a look at what's 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:23.800 happening on individual movers. I bring you the biggest points 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:27.160 drivers to the downside. Currently Tesla off by more than 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:29.360 four percent. We think of the repercussions to auto's, the 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:31.959 repercussions to phone sales, Apple or by three point four percent. 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:33.920 In video is currently off by one point eight percent. 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:37.440 As we think about the semiconductors in the overall concerns 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:39.800 around global tariffs, Let's get right to it. 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:41.840 Who most Kaylee Lines joins us for more. 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:43.679 And maybe they don't come in for a month, but 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:47.080 still the shockwaves from a twenty five percent tariff on Canada, 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:50.200 Mexico and slightly less to China. 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:53.480 Well in Caroline. It's only Mexico that the president has confirmed. 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:55.600 The US President, that is, Donald Trump will see the 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.120 tiarifs toll lead for a month. After speaking with Mexican 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:00.960 President Claudia Scheinbaum, an agreement had been reached in order 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:04.000 to have this delay in place for Mexico to send 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:06.960 ten thousand troops to its northern border with the US 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:09.760 in order to help stem the flow of fentanyl and migrants. 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:12.160 That is the route of the issue that Donald Trump 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:14.720 really has here that he is using tariff's leverage to 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:16.880 try to extract concessions from and it does seem that 0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:19.520 he did indeed get those. And in the interim one 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.320 month period where the extension will be in place, Mexican 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.639 officials will be negotiating with officials from the Trump administration 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:29.440 Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Treasury Secretary Scott Besstt, and 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:32.960 ultimately who is presumed to be confirmed as Commerce Secretary, 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.119 Howard Lutnik. They will all be leading those negotiations. As 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.120 for the other two countries that tariffs are set to 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.640 go into effect at midnight tonight, no news yet as 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:43.320 to whether Canada can avoid its twenty five percent levies, 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.160 ten percent on energy imports specifically a lower level, and 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.800 of course ten percent on all imports coming in from China. 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:52.440 President Trump has already spoken to Canadian Prime Minister Justin 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:54.880 Trudeau once today today he is scheduled to do so 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:57.480 again at three pm Eastern time, so we'll see if 0:02:57.520 --> 0:02:59.440 they too can reach some kind of agreement to stave 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:02.320 these off for a period of time. If not, these 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:04.480 tariffs will go into effect it at midnight in Canada 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.960 and Return will be placing retaliatory tariffs on thirty billion 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:11.160 Canadian dollars worth of US goods at midnight. We're seeing 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.040 other ripple effects as well. The Premiere of Ontario, that 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:17.080 province has announced today a cancelation of a contract with 0:03:17.200 --> 0:03:20.000 Starlink valued in nearly seventy million dollars. It was set 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:22.480 to go into effect in June of this year. That 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:24.760 has been a put on pause and the provincial government 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:27.640 says no US companies will be getting provincial contracts so 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:30.200 long as tariffs are in place. The question is going 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:32.520 to be will they go in place just hours from now? 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:34.440 Kayleie. 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:36.520 What else do we know about the reaction from the 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:40.160 business community kind of on the back of these Mexico 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:42.240 and Canada terriff escalations. 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:45.240 Well, the business community has had a bit of a 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:49.480 mixed reaction, Jackie, mostly by enlarged companies are are hesitant 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:53.120 to embrace the notion of tariffs and echoes for things 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.440 like the Chamber of Commerce represented here in DC and 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:57.400 other business leaders as well, who have warned about the 0:03:57.400 --> 0:04:00.920 potential inflationary impacts. Obviously, this administration has pushed back on 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.720 the notion that these would be inflationary, saying, if anything, 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.400 it would bring a one time price increased rather than 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:09.600 a sustained period of inflation. You're also seeing some reaction 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.200 here in Washington with questions raised around. 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:13.480 The legality of all of this. 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:15.800 The powers that Donald Trump is using here to enact 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:19.400 these levees are the nineteen seventy seven International Emergency Economic 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:23.360 Powers Act that traditionally is applied when it comes to sanctions, 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:25.760 not import tariffs, and there is a question as to 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:28.240 whether or not this authority would actually stand up in 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:32.440 court if challenged legally when it is being used in 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:35.279 this way, whether this is actually a national security oriented 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:37.440 emergency or not, as the President contends that it is. 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.640 Again talking about the flow here a fentanyl and migrants. 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:40.960 Over the borders. 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:43.640 Bloomberg's Kaylee lyons, thank you. 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.159 Now, Let's get to the tariff's impact on the chip 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.480 world and Asia. With TSMC shirts stumbling by the most 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:52.719 in nearly six months, as trading resumed on Monday, playing 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:55.320 catchup to a global AI sell off with Trump's new 0:04:55.360 --> 0:05:00.800 tariffs Bloomberg's peerrelst joins us to discuss Peter through what 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:05.320 we know about Trump's discussion with and Nvidia CEO Jensen 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.520 Wang and what he has signaled regarding tariffs on chips 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:08.920 so far. 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:13.039 Yeah, well, what we've seen really is you, as you 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:15.320 were laying out just before this, the rules of the 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.480 game are changing almost by the hour. Here, many many 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:22.200 changes for these companies to deal with both Nvidia, TSMC, 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:24.680 on Hi some of the other companies that we've seen 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.000 move in the markets these days. TSMC is an interesting example. 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.600 They're the most advanced chip maker out there. It takes 0:05:30.640 --> 0:05:32.920 them years and tens of billions of dollars to build 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:36.240 these factories, so their timeframe for making decisions from a 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:38.719 business standpoint is quite a bit different than some of 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.159 these policy changes that have been made. They make most 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:43.600 of their advanced chips right now in Taiwan. They make 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:45.800 them for Apple, and they make them for Nvidia, and 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.719 they ship them into the United States and into other markets. 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.280 So with Trump's tariffs, this idea that maybe they would 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:53.840 move production into the United States, it's a little bit 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.039 of a different timeframe. They are building a factory in 0:05:56.040 --> 0:05:58.000 the United States, but that's going to take some time 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:01.000 for them. So we're seeing both this depression on the 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.320 stock price catching up with what happened with deep Seak 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:06.400 last week, and on top of that, now we have 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:09.200 these tariff concerns, whether they are delayed or not. 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:12.880 It's interesting Bernstein actually putting out a note still having 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.679 in Video and an outperform saying they see little impact 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.880 from taris on slocks like in Video right now in 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:19.799 the overall industry. 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.679 So how to investors gain this out more broadly? 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:25.960 Peter, Well, there are a couple of concerns layered on 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.440 top of each other. There's the deep seat concerns that 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.239 we saw last week that knocked almost six hundred billion 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:34.240 dollars off the market cap of Invidia. Of course, that 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:36.880 was more around the idea that this Chinese company had 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:39.479 been able to build an AI model it was competitive 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.880 with the best in the West, including open AIS model, 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:44.960 for a much much lower cost. There's still a lot 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:46.679 of things that we don't know about how that model 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:49.719 was built, exactly what chips they used. They did say 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:51.719 that they used a bunch of Invidia chips there too, 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.359 But I think that primary concern is that perhaps some 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:56.159 of these AI companies are going to try to do 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.160 things more cheaply rather than trying to invest. The tens 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:01.520 of billions of dollars are hundreds of billions of dollars 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:04.279 that we've heard from open Ai and Microsoft and most 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:08.160 recently Soft Bank in this Stargate venture. On top of that, 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:10.680 you have the tariff concerns that President Trump has talked 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:14.200 about he may layer tariffs on top of computer chips too. 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:18.160 That would hit some of these companies, including TSMC, probably Samsung, 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.080 some of the other players, Asian players that have been 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:22.320 very active in this market. 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:24.760 Thank you an eye across all of it, Peter Elstrom me, 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:28.800 thank you. Let's bring in Silvia Jablonski, now CEO CIO. 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:31.360 Of Defiance CTS, to discuss the broader market impact. 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:34.400 How you, as someone who needs to be assessing your 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.040 overall exposure here, does. 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:38.880 Try to game out what is a very fluid situation. 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.520 Higen warning, Well, it is a very fluid situation. And 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:45.440 I think you know the only thing you can kind 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:47.880 of do as an investor, what are your retail investor 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:50.240 institutional investors just kind of keep an eye on what's 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.400 going on with these negotiations, right, I think that. Hearing 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:57.120 from mister Hassett this morning, it sounded like all of 0:07:57.160 --> 0:07:59.400 this was around the idea of not important you know, 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:02.679 drugs fund and all into the US immigration types of issues, 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:04.920 border control issues, and if that's really the case and 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.000 we see, you know, kind of what happened with Mexico, 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:10.520 that the delay of this and ongoing conversations is probably 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.440 a positive thing and maybe it feels like it won't 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:14.840 go into an effect. 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:15.800 But of course we have that. 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:20.520 Backdrop of you know, domestication bringing everything back online to 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:22.440 the US to be produced in the US and things 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:23.760 like that, so you kind of have to see where 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:27.320 all of this lands and you know, kind of adjust accordingly. 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:31.520 So we have some companies coming up or later this 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:34.760 week and into the month that are reporting earnings. What 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:37.640 do you expect will be covered as it relates to 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.600 tariffs and perhaps that looming threat. What do you want 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:43.880 to hear from management and some of those conference calls. 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.480 I think it's too soon. I think it's it's very 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:50.400 difficult for them to address the situation because we don't 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:52.000 know whether or not the tech, you know, whether the 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:55.800 tariffs will be you know, going into a factor or not. Right, 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:58.839 I think there will be some comments along the lines of, 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.160 you know, we're keeping an eye on this, and it's 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:04.560 a moving target and food situation similar to you know, 0:09:04.600 --> 0:09:08.120 similarly to how you phrased it. The difficulty is, you know, 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:10.880 if we get these tariffs and these companies arguably will 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:14.400 probably raise prices, it probably will impact future earnings and 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:16.719 SHEP growth and things like this. But I don't think 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.199 anybody wants to touch it this week until we get 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.040 a little bit more color. We might get that, you know, 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.240 today or within the next twenty four to forty eight hours, 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.520 and I think that'll kind of help the situation. What 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:29.800 I think everybody's looking for from earnings, particularly this week 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:32.040 when you have you know, some of the big tech 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:35.880 giants coming out with their earnings, is talk of AI. 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:37.600 Right, are we monetizing this? 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:39.800 What are the top and bottom lines going to look like? 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:40.360 What kind of. 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:42.439 Revenue generations should we expect, you know, how is it 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:45.280 going to start filtering into the you know, XMG four 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:47.720 hundred and ninety three other names that aren't the you know, 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:49.679 kind of providers of all this stuff. I think that's 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:52.640 really what the market's out to see. And if that's 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.160 the case, and you know, the tariff thing becomes more 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:57.360 of a benign event, Well, then you have a great 0:09:57.679 --> 0:09:59.800 buying opportunity here, right, But we need a little more 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:00.800 time to shake that out. 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.240 There's kind of two stories that are playing out right now. 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.600 You have this need to invest in more AI infrastructure, 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:09.800 but at the same time, you have investors who are 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.920 really wary of overspending on that front as well. How 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.120 do you think companies are going to kind of weigh that, 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.280 especially as we're seeing more of a bigger push coming 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.839 out of Washington to really build out infrastructure. 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:24.400 I think it's, you know, to the letter of your point. 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.400 I think there's this you know, big push from Washington 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:29.200 to participate in the build out of AI infrastructure. You know, 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.920 the US has been left behind so many times when 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:34.280 it comes to tech and tech advancements, and I think 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:36.040 that's why Deep Sea kind of read all the markets 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.960 right like, uh oh, look look what they just did, right, 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:40.760 And so I think that there will be a lot 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.520 of investment and focus out in building out AI infrastructure, 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:47.240 making sure it's you know, the best infrastructure in the 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:49.559 world and also the most cost efficient infrastructure in the 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.520 world for what it's actually providing. And so I think 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:54.920 that's been will continue and AI is just the beginning 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:58.040 of it, right. I think we're stage one of AI right. 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:02.400 Stage two will be how it impacts drug companies, pharmaceutical companies, 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:05.480 aerospace and defense, you know, hearing that on the earnings 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:06.800 calls from. 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:08.000 Again those x mag names. 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:10.200 And then I think step three is like, well what 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:10.920 else is there? 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:11.200 Right? 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:14.680 And that could arguably be quantum computing, the you know, 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:19.760 next fourth Industrial revolution of technology and supercomputing there and 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.160 so there's a lot of spend that will probably continue 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:25.040 to go into AI. I think it's just early days still. 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:27.920 And you've ben providing exposure to quantum in particular silvia, 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:29.239 but you also provide. 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:29.959 Exposure to crypto. 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:33.679 Crypto was the asset to sell in an a liquid 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.280 market over the weekend. How do you think that crypto 0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:38.960 is exposure is going to be to volatile markets but 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:41.199 still an administration that is process space. 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:44.360 So crypto has this funny the market has a funny 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:46.800 relationship with crypto, right. I think sometimes we think of 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:50.079 it as as gold, right, digital gold and an inflation hedge, 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.400 and then other times we view it as a risk 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.160 asset like a semiconductor stock. Or a high growth tech 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:57.520 stock or something like this. And so I think that 0:11:57.600 --> 0:11:59.640 right now it's just behaving like the latter. Investors are 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.080 spooped to about tariffs, what that means for the broader 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:05.559 economic picture. And so crypto is something that's easy to 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:09.080 buy and sell, and so it suffers along with you know, 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:11.240 the stocks that we see being hit the hardest today, 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:12.719 particularly those. 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:13.520 In the NASDAC. 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:15.720 But again, you know, we think crypto is going to 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:19.160 be one of the best, you know, opportunities to have 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:23.480 in a portfolio, specifically bitcoin, specifically names like micro Strategy 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:26.160 that track Bitcoin, and so I think you're going to 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:28.160 see some dip buyers here, and you know, we see 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:31.000 crypto moving around today right to that effect. So let's 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:32.640 see put positive news on. 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:33.800 Tariffs and crypto. 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:36.080 You know, it'll be an asset to class to watch, 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:37.439 I think in a favorable sense. 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.439 Sylvia Deblonsky of Defiance ATFS Thank you. Now coming up, 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:46.920 Elon Musk's Doowe's team demand access to sensitive government information 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:51.560 and start shutting down payments to federal contractors. This is Bloomberg. 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.640 Elo Musk's gohog team is shutting down payments to some 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.720 federal contracts, singling out the US Agency of International Development 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:11.600 as a criminal organization and appears to access to sensitive 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:12.440 systems used. 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.400 At the US Treasury Department. Springing bloemgs Max Schafkin for 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:19.560 more and is this not the remit of government efficiency? 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:24.120 We are in some crazy territory right now where we 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:28.400 have a billionaire who's running you know, six companies, who 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:30.959 has some kind of affiliation with the White House, but 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.840 it's not entirely clear, but is very very close, of course, 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:38.800 to President Trump. Is kind of running around Washington disrupting 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.520 in i'd say, in both the positive and negative sense 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:43.480 of that word, the operations of. 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:44.240 The federal government. 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:47.559 We saw over the weekend reports that Musk had taken 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:50.720 over Treasury in the Department of Treasury's payment system, that's 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.320 like the money that the US government has to pay 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:54.559 all of its contractors. 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:57.280 That was a pretty crazy action. 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.480 Then last night Musk got on a Twitter faces and 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.280 essentially said he was shutting down USAID. 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:05.599 Congress created a USAID. 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.840 It's not clear that that's something that Elon Musk is 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:12.160 allowed to do. So a lot of questions and just 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:15.320 a ton of chaos in the federal government right now. 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:20.320 Max what do we know about who's aiding Trump, who's 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:23.000 aiding Elon Musk at this point in some of these efforts. 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:25.280 I mean, this isn't the first time that he's stormed 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.040 into an organization and taken it over. Can you talk 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:30.520 to us a little bit about the parallels perhaps that 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.040 Twitter has and what we can kind of expect on 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.720 this front. Granted it is government, absolutely, yeah. 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.840 I mean this is very similar to the period immediately 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:43.280 following Elon Musk's purchase of Twitter, where he brought in 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:47.040 this very small crew of loyalists, a combination of people 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:48.920 who've sort of worked with him for a real, really 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:51.520 long time, as well as you know, like twenty year 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:56.000 old intern types who are doing all sorts of stuff. 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.200 The email that went out to federal workers last week, 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.880 last week so object line quote fork in the road, 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:07.720 Musk sent a nearly identical email to Twitter employees before 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:11.400 laying off many of them. Now, I will say there 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.760 are huge differences again between it, It's pretty obvious say this, 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:18.440 but between the federal government and a forty four billion dollar, 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.600 you know, private company that Elon Musk controlled, And that's 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.480 why you're seeing, you know, a lot of criticism from 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.560 from Democrats as well as groups that are concerned about 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.080 funding me cut off. And of course there will be 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:32.040 political implications of this as well. 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.960 Senator of Oregon Ron Wyden most vocal out there saying 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:38.600 you can't do this. All of us have been so 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.920 close to doze and the birth of it. Can't be 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.720 surprised in the least that he's running roughshild No. 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.440 I mean, I think it's somewhat surprising how quickly this 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:53.200 has moved. But you're right, this is what Trump and 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.240 Elon Musk said when they were running, when Trump was 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.240 running for president, and so in that sense, it's not 0:15:59.280 --> 0:15:59.760 a surprise. 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:01.680 Do you think there were a lot of people, a 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:03.120 lot of sort. 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:06.440 Of moderates who supported Trump who were hoping for something different. 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:08.680 It's kind of similar to the tariff story, right, there's 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:10.720 I hope that you know, this would all be bluster 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.640 or something, and and and you know, this is what 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:15.000 what they said they were going to do. 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.840 And and one difference though here again. 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:20.320 Is that Elon Musk doesn't work for the government, or 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.440 it's it's not clear what is what his authority is. 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.000 He hasn't he hasn't been subject to a confirmation hearing 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.240 he hasn't put his financial stuff in it in a trust. 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:32.000 He's also very erratic. Right, this is probably more extreme 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:33.960 than it would have been if it were just were 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:35.440 a different Trump appointee. 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:36.320 He was doing this, but. 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:40.760 Having somebody with musks temperament and reputation and just frankly 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:43.680 energy levels, uh, sort of takes us to another level. 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:46.600 Bloomberg's mass Chapkin, thank you. 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:58.320 Open Ai and self back deepening their relationship further, joining 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:00.960 forces and a joint venture to say AI services to 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:04.000 businesses across Japan. Now, Sulfa Bank founder Masoshi Sun and 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.200 open Ai CEO Samalmon took to the stage in Tokyo 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:10.879 to outline this new venture with hiring one thousand people 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:14.280 to market open ai products to arrange Japanese industries. Sam 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.280 Almond also talked about the company's next AI agent. 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:19.440 It's called deep Research, which. 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.639 Can conduct online research on a user's behalf and is 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:25.080 powered by chatbot chatchubt Jakimore and AI Developments. 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:29.440 Now, let's discuss AI safety and how USAI policy could 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:32.920 be shaped by China's advances. Following Deep Seek were joined 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:36.159 by Doug Caladis from the group Americans for responsible. 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.960 Innovation, Doug, it seems like we have a. 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:42.879 Different narrative going now after deep sea developments last week. 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:47.120 It's kind of sparking this renewed escalation in arms race 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:49.199 in AI. But at the same time, you know, you 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:53.520 have the Biden Administration's Executive Order on AI being rescinded 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.240 in Trump's first week in office. Where does this leave 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.399 any kind of priority for AI safety in the US. 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.080 That's a very good point, And these are a lot 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.080 of the arguments that we're hearing. We believe that step 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:08.439 one is understanding what the problem is. 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:09.080 Now. 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:10.440 What you'll often hear people say. 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:12.760 Is that the problem is that China is going fast 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:16.040 and the US needs to go faster. Sure, but why 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:18.840 is China going fast. It's China going fast because they're 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:23.440 independently developing their own technology that can rival US technology. No, 0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:26.520 and I don't think anyone believes that they're piggy backing 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:30.160 off of US efforts. They're using US chips or US 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.760 design chips, and they're using US design algorithms. So if 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.639 we're serious about keeping our lead over China, we have 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.359 to understand how they're getting access to the technology and 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.040 act quarterly. If we simply run faster and they're holding 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:43.920 onto our back. We are not going to run them. 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.760 So you have worked for senators. When you're going in 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.480 advising government, do you just say, look, fast follows the 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:52.600 way forward, but from China. 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.000 But here's what we do to protect ourselves. What is 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:55.600 the response? 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.360 It's difficult, and I think the understanding is that they're 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.199 different policy tools that the US government has used to 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:06.119 try to prevent China from fast following, and we understand 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:10.280