Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, and there's
Speaker 1: Chuck and Jerry's here, and we're all jacked up because
Speaker 1: Halloween's coming. We've been eating candy for six weeks straight.
Speaker 2: And sure things are getting spoopy in here.
Speaker 1: Spoopy.
Speaker 2: Spoopy. It's a word. It means not quite spooky, a
Speaker 2: lighthearted version of spooky.
Speaker 1: Is that like your own word?
Speaker 2: No, it's a real thing. You can look it up
Speaker 2: and we'll wait.
Speaker 1: Okay, hold on a second. Yep, your story checks out.
Speaker 1: It's a real word.
Speaker 2: All right. Well, let's talk about bedsheet ghosts then, because
Speaker 2: I picked this one out when I was looking for
Speaker 2: something spooky and I just I kind of have had
Speaker 2: a bit of nostalgia for the old school bedsheet ghosts,
Speaker 2: and I was like, well, where in the world did
Speaker 2: that come from? Who started doing that? Because it's a thing,
Speaker 2: you see people still do it as a cut real
Speaker 2: costume occasionally, whether or not you don't have the money
Speaker 2: to scrape up for like some expensive cop assume, or
Speaker 2: if you're just lazy. Either way, it's great, and it's
Speaker 2: also been in a gazillion pieces of pop culture, like
Speaker 2: Beetlejuice and Scooby Doo and Charlie Brown and all kinds
Speaker 2: of stuff.
Speaker 1: Our friend Toby produced a movie that it featured in recently,
Speaker 1: A Ghost Story.
Speaker 2: I stopn't seeing that. I gotta see it.
Speaker 1: It's interesting, like it is art house is it's a
Speaker 1: very art house like. There's a lengthy scene where Rooney
Speaker 1: Mara just sits there and eats pie quietly in her kitchen.
Speaker 1: Like that's a scene. It's really interesting, but it's cool.
Speaker 1: It's a cool concept. But the ghost is just wearing
Speaker 1: a bed sheet the whole time. Yeah, it's iconic exactly.
Speaker 1: I think that's the point. And I never stopped to
Speaker 1: question that. I think that was a great question that
Speaker 1: you had in your head. And it's really I love
Speaker 1: things where you just stop and think, where did this
Speaker 1: come from? And there's a definitive answer that makes complete sense.
Speaker 1: And this happens to be one of those things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love. So we dug into Salon dot com,
Speaker 2: Tuftinneedle dot Com, and The Daily Beast, and everyone's story
Speaker 2: is the same. So it has to be true. But
Speaker 2: it comes from the fact that back in olden days,
Speaker 2: and specifically, I mean we can go back to the
Speaker 2: time of Jesus if you'd like to, but specifically forward
Speaker 2: a bit to seventeenth century Britain when people would wrap
Speaker 2: their deceased loved ones in white sheets burial shrouds to
Speaker 2: bury them. They used to do that, you know, just
Speaker 2: routinely back in ancient times. But then as we got
Speaker 2: a little more moderate and coffins came around, if you
Speaker 2: had money, you could still go with a coffin, but
Speaker 2: if you didn't, you were still using that linen sheet probably.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's actually come full circle again because one
Speaker 1: of the hallmarks of a green burial is using a
Speaker 1: burial shroud instead of a coffin.
Speaker 2: That's right, So a.
Speaker 1: Burial shroud is associated with dead people, and if a
Speaker 1: dead person returned from the grave i e. A ghost
Speaker 1: mm hmm, you would think that they're probably still wearing
Speaker 1: their burial shroud or the bed sheet that they were
Speaker 1: buried in, and that that is how bed sheets became
Speaker 1: synonymous with ghosts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we could stop there. This could be the
Speaker 2: shortest short stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it gets even more interesting if you asked me.
Speaker 2: It does because all these great websites found some pretty
Speaker 2: cool stories to tie into this, and this is something
Speaker 2: I never knew it was so synonymous with spooking people
Speaker 2: that thieves in London and dare I say, Greater England
Speaker 2: would wear the stuff sometimes. I read some sites that
Speaker 2: said they would wear it just to scare people sometimes
Speaker 2: and rob them on the street. And I also saw
Speaker 2: sometimes they would scare them from their home so they
Speaker 2: could then just be like, all right, we got the
Speaker 2: place to ourselves, let's rob.
Speaker 1: It either way. I mean, don't you deserve to be robbed? Yeah? Scared?
Speaker 1: Maybe they were just like, oh god, a robber, and
Speaker 1: that's really why they were running out, not that they
Speaker 1: thought it was a ghost.
Speaker 2: Sure, and he's wearing a sheet, so he must be dangerous.
Speaker 1: So clearly, by this time, sheets and ghosts were fully
Speaker 1: in the mind of the pop culture. I guess, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The thing is is at this time, around this time
Speaker 1: in the early eighteen hundreds, like I think eighteen oh five,
Speaker 1: maybe there is a very famous case of a person
Speaker 1: being mistaken for a bed sheet wearing ghost who paid
Speaker 1: with their life basically for walking around wearing a white
Speaker 1: outfit and refusing to wear anything but that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because here's what happens. People thieves are wearing these
Speaker 2: things are going around and robbing folks and scaring them
Speaker 2: out of their house to rob them. And so, of
Speaker 2: course what's going to happen is, well intended angry citizens
Speaker 2: are going to rise up and they're going to be
Speaker 2: like street cop ghost hunters, and they're going to walk
Speaker 2: around trying to ghost bust.
Speaker 1: Yes, but this particular case, the guy who is responsible
Speaker 1: for the death, his whole defense was I thought that
Speaker 1: was a ghost, right, Oh, okay, okay, let's think it.
Speaker 2: He but he was he was ghost hunting criminals. Though
Speaker 2: at the time that was his defense. He thought it
Speaker 2: was a ghost. But I thought that they knew they
Speaker 2: were criminals. That was the whole point.
Speaker 1: No, not in this particular case. No, okay, well let's
Speaker 1: talk about it. So the guy we're talking about who
Speaker 1: died was Thomas Millwood's and this is in Hammersmith, which
Speaker 1: is in a neighborhood in West London. And Francis Smith
Speaker 1: is the guy that you're referring to who was out
Speaker 1: hunting ghosts. And I think what you're talking about is
Speaker 1: there were a bunch of reports of ghosts attacking people,
Speaker 1: not necessarily killing somebody, but that the word on the
Speaker 1: street was there're ghosts out there that are doing harmful things,
Speaker 1: and that's what brought Francis Smith out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right, funny because I looked over
Speaker 2: this quite a few times, and every single time my
Speaker 2: read of it was he was a criminal vigilante and
Speaker 2: he knew that ghosts people were putting on the sheets
Speaker 2: and doing it. But I think you're dead right. I
Speaker 2: think he's he was a ghost hunter.
Speaker 1: He was, and so he ran across Thomas Milwood, who
Speaker 1: was I think a bricklayer. And Thomas Milwood was well
Speaker 1: known for wearing white pants, white shirt, white apron and
Speaker 1: his wife was even like, dude, you know there's like
Speaker 1: a ghost panic going on out there. You probably should
Speaker 1: wear something that's not white so people know, you know,
Speaker 1: you're not a ghost. And he says, after your labor day,
Speaker 1: exactly right, it's so ghost, Francis.
Speaker 2: You you got to put away that searsucker suit and
Speaker 2: all your white stuff.
Speaker 1: Exactly. So Thomas said, no, nay, stay out of my business.
Speaker 1: I wear white and I like it. It's my signature color.
Speaker 1: And she's like, it's not just a color, it's the
Speaker 1: presence of all colors. And the conversation has kept going
Speaker 1: on like this, but we'll take Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's right, and very sadly he was killed because of that.
Speaker 2: They were at the trial. I believe they found out
Speaker 2: that Millwood had supposedly scared this couple in a carriage
Speaker 2: whinde out. Yeah, yeah, not like I'm trying to rob you.
Speaker 2: Just like everyone thought he was, I guess a ghost,
Speaker 2: even though it wasn't a sheet because he was wearing
Speaker 2: all white. I'm kind of worrying about wondering about nineteenth
Speaker 2: century London all of a sudden.
Speaker 1: Yeah, same here. As a matter of fact, I mean
Speaker 1: talk about superstitious.
Speaker 2: So the long and the short of it is, Millwood
Speaker 2: was sadly killed and Smith was sentenced to hang. Initially,
Speaker 2: and King George the Third stepped in and said, Nope,
Speaker 2: I like the cut of this guy's jib. Let's just
Speaker 2: give him a full pardon. Pretty nice, Pretty nice. Shall
Speaker 2: we take a break?
Speaker 1: Let us take a break.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, we'll be right back with more bed
Speaker 2: sheet ghosting.
Speaker 1: So bed sheets with ghosts are have been around for
Speaker 1: quite a while, but there was like a there have
Speaker 1: been diversions off of that straight path from then to now.
Speaker 1: For example, ghosts were synonymous with wearing suits of armor,
Speaker 1: particularly Hamlet, Hamlet's father when he comes back, he's wearing
Speaker 1: a suit of armor, or Jacob Marley was just wearing
Speaker 1: his regular clothes that he died in or was buried in,
Speaker 1: but with chains or another one that lasted for a
Speaker 1: really long time were just straight up skeletons, like anime
Speaker 1: skeletons that were moving around and talking and scaring people.
Speaker 1: They were essentially ghosts. But that bed sheet or that
Speaker 1: burial shroud or whatever you want to call it, draped
Speaker 1: over a dead person, that being a ghost. That's the
Speaker 1: one that's really kind of become universal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it was the nineteenth century that that really
Speaker 2: really finally was fully embedded, when well, they didn't use
Speaker 2: burial shrouds by that point. Most people were in coffins
Speaker 2: at this point, but if you didn't have a lot
Speaker 2: of money, you were still in that same position, but
Speaker 2: instead of like a linen shroud, they would just wrap
Speaker 2: you in the sheet on the bed that you died in,
Speaker 2: basically y and wrap you up, tie knots on the
Speaker 2: ends and thus ingrained the bedsheet ghost.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hope you like that floral pattern because you're trapped
Speaker 1: with it for a turnament.
Speaker 2: Right for the star Wars sheets.
Speaker 1: So the bed sheet and the dead person was so connected.
Speaker 1: By the late nineteenth century, when spiritualism, a mediumship became
Speaker 1: really popular. If you took a double exposed photo with
Speaker 1: a person wearing a bed sheet and you superimposed it
Speaker 1: next to the living person you were taking a ghost
Speaker 1: photo of. They would see that and be like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, there's a ghost right behind me. A person
Speaker 1: wearing a bed sheet they would take to believe as
Speaker 1: a ghost.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So of course psychics and mediums and people that
Speaker 2: did stuff like that, they would have all sorts of
Speaker 2: rigs to make it look like the ghost was in
Speaker 2: the room with you, and it seemed like it work.
Speaker 2: I guess they were making enough money doing it. Of course,
Speaker 2: some people got in trouble for that kind of thing occasionally.
Speaker 2: So eventually it moved to the stage, and they found
Speaker 2: some theater scholars from the time that said, you know,
Speaker 2: we did some polling and we found that people are
Speaker 2: more scared when we use the bedsheet ghost on stage
Speaker 2: than just somebody in like white makeup rattling chains.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Leslie, the theater scholar who did the.
Speaker 2: Polling from the candy company. Leslie gets around, right.
Speaker 1: I think that the time when it became not scary
Speaker 1: was when children's cartoons kind of took over the idea
Speaker 1: of a bed sheet ghost and made them not scary
Speaker 1: because these were children's cartoons. There's a really famous example
Speaker 1: of Mickey Mouse cartoon from nineteen thirty seven called Lonesome Ghosts,
Speaker 1: and the ghosts are not clearly wearing bed sheets. Because
Speaker 1: what's interesting, Chuck is if you look at these ghosts,
Speaker 1: or you look at Casper or the ghost or whatever,
Speaker 1: they are white, transparentish and generally featureless. They'll have eyes
Speaker 1: or a nose or something, but there's no general there's
Speaker 1: no general shape to them. And it's like the bed
Speaker 1: sheet covered ghost has now morphed into a ghost made
Speaker 1: out of something like a bed sheet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like Casper isn't a weird kid wearing a bed sheet, right,
Speaker 2: Casper is made of bed sheet if you.
Speaker 1: Look closely, though, I'm pretty sure it is Richie rich
Speaker 1: under there, right.
Speaker 2: Oh man, I never thought about that. That's I think
Speaker 2: you might be right. I am never made that connection.
Speaker 1: So I think, Chuck, we've proven, beyond the shadow of
Speaker 1: a doubt that bed sheets are associated with ghosts.
Speaker 2: Yes, and you know what I might I might do
Speaker 2: that this year. I'm kind of short on costumes.
Speaker 1: That's great. Well, one of these sites that you that
Speaker 1: you came across suggests that if you're gonna use it
Speaker 1: as a costume, find an old sheet that's frayed or thinning,
Speaker 1: because it'll be ten times scarier.
Speaker 2: M you know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna get
Speaker 2: a brand new one and not even iron it so
Speaker 2: it still has those folded crease markers.
Speaker 1: That's the scariest of all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the laziest costume of all.
Speaker 1: You got anything else?
Speaker 2: I got nothing else.
Speaker 1: I got one thing. Happy Halloween, everybody, Happy Halloween. Short
Speaker 1: Stuff's Out, if.
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