WEBVTT - Short Stuff: Bed Sheet Ghosts

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, welcome to the short Stuff. I'm Josh, and there's

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<v Speaker 1>Chuck and Jerry's here, and we're all jacked up because

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<v Speaker 1>Halloween's coming. We've been eating candy for six weeks straight.

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<v Speaker 2>And sure things are getting spoopy in here.

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<v Speaker 1>Spoopy.

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<v Speaker 2>Spoopy. It's a word. It means not quite spooky, a

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<v Speaker 2>lighthearted version of spooky.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that like your own word?

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<v Speaker 2>No, it's a real thing. You can look it up

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<v Speaker 2>and we'll wait.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, hold on a second. Yep, your story checks out.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a real word.

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<v Speaker 2>All right. Well, let's talk about bedsheet ghosts then, because

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<v Speaker 2>I picked this one out when I was looking for

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<v Speaker 2>something spooky and I just I kind of have had

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<v Speaker 2>a bit of nostalgia for the old school bedsheet ghosts,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was like, well, where in the world did

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<v Speaker 2>that come from? Who started doing that? Because it's a thing,

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<v Speaker 2>you see people still do it as a cut real

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<v Speaker 2>costume occasionally, whether or not you don't have the money

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<v Speaker 2>to scrape up for like some expensive cop assume, or

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<v Speaker 2>if you're just lazy. Either way, it's great, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>also been in a gazillion pieces of pop culture, like

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<v Speaker 2>Beetlejuice and Scooby Doo and Charlie Brown and all kinds

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<v Speaker 2>of stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Our friend Toby produced a movie that it featured in recently,

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<v Speaker 1>A Ghost Story.

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<v Speaker 2>I stopn't seeing that. I gotta see it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's interesting, like it is art house is it's a

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<v Speaker 1>very art house like. There's a lengthy scene where Rooney

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<v Speaker 1>Mara just sits there and eats pie quietly in her kitchen.

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<v Speaker 1>Like that's a scene. It's really interesting, but it's cool.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a cool concept. But the ghost is just wearing

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<v Speaker 1>a bed sheet the whole time. Yeah, it's iconic exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's the point. And I never stopped to

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<v Speaker 1>question that. I think that was a great question that

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<v Speaker 1>you had in your head. And it's really I love

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<v Speaker 1>things where you just stop and think, where did this

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<v Speaker 1>come from? And there's a definitive answer that makes complete sense.

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<v Speaker 1>And this happens to be one of those things.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I love. So we dug into Salon dot com,

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<v Speaker 2>Tuftinneedle dot Com, and The Daily Beast, and everyone's story

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<v Speaker 2>is the same. So it has to be true. But

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<v Speaker 2>it comes from the fact that back in olden days,

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<v Speaker 2>and specifically, I mean we can go back to the

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<v Speaker 2>time of Jesus if you'd like to, but specifically forward

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<v Speaker 2>a bit to seventeenth century Britain when people would wrap

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<v Speaker 2>their deceased loved ones in white sheets burial shrouds to

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<v Speaker 2>bury them. They used to do that, you know, just

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<v Speaker 2>routinely back in ancient times. But then as we got

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<v Speaker 2>a little more moderate and coffins came around, if you

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<v Speaker 2>had money, you could still go with a coffin, but

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<v Speaker 2>if you didn't, you were still using that linen sheet probably.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it's actually come full circle again because one

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<v Speaker 1>of the hallmarks of a green burial is using a

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<v Speaker 1>burial shroud instead of a coffin.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, So a.

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<v Speaker 1>Burial shroud is associated with dead people, and if a

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<v Speaker 1>dead person returned from the grave i e. A ghost

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<v Speaker 1>mm hmm, you would think that they're probably still wearing

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<v Speaker 1>their burial shroud or the bed sheet that they were

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<v Speaker 1>buried in, and that that is how bed sheets became

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<v Speaker 1>synonymous with ghosts.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and we could stop there. This could be the

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<v Speaker 2>shortest short stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but it gets even more interesting if you asked me.

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<v Speaker 2>It does because all these great websites found some pretty

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<v Speaker 2>cool stories to tie into this, and this is something

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<v Speaker 2>I never knew it was so synonymous with spooking people

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<v Speaker 2>that thieves in London and dare I say, Greater England

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<v Speaker 2>would wear the stuff sometimes. I read some sites that

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<v Speaker 2>said they would wear it just to scare people sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>and rob them on the street. And I also saw

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes they would scare them from their home so they

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<v Speaker 2>could then just be like, all right, we got the

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<v Speaker 2>place to ourselves, let's rob.

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<v Speaker 1>It either way. I mean, don't you deserve to be robbed? Yeah? Scared?

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe they were just like, oh god, a robber, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's really why they were running out, not that they

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<v Speaker 1>thought it was a ghost.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, and he's wearing a sheet, so he must be dangerous.

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<v Speaker 1>So clearly, by this time, sheets and ghosts were fully

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<v Speaker 1>in the mind of the pop culture. I guess, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>The thing is is at this time, around this time

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<v Speaker 1>in the early eighteen hundreds, like I think eighteen oh five,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe there is a very famous case of a person

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<v Speaker 1>being mistaken for a bed sheet wearing ghost who paid

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<v Speaker 1>with their life basically for walking around wearing a white

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<v Speaker 1>outfit and refusing to wear anything but that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because here's what happens. People thieves are wearing these

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<v Speaker 2>things are going around and robbing folks and scaring them

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<v Speaker 2>out of their house to rob them. And so, of

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<v Speaker 2>course what's going to happen is, well intended angry citizens

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<v Speaker 2>are going to rise up and they're going to be

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<v Speaker 2>like street cop ghost hunters, and they're going to walk

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<v Speaker 2>around trying to ghost bust.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, but this particular case, the guy who is responsible

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<v Speaker 1>for the death, his whole defense was I thought that

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<v Speaker 1>was a ghost, right, Oh, okay, okay, let's think it.

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<v Speaker 2>He but he was he was ghost hunting criminals. Though

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<v Speaker 2>at the time that was his defense. He thought it

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<v Speaker 2>was a ghost. But I thought that they knew they

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<v Speaker 2>were criminals. That was the whole point.

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<v Speaker 1>No, not in this particular case. No, okay, well let's

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<v Speaker 1>talk about it. So the guy we're talking about who

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<v Speaker 1>died was Thomas Millwood's and this is in Hammersmith, which

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<v Speaker 1>is in a neighborhood in West London. And Francis Smith

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<v Speaker 1>is the guy that you're referring to who was out

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<v Speaker 1>hunting ghosts. And I think what you're talking about is

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<v Speaker 1>there were a bunch of reports of ghosts attacking people,

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<v Speaker 1>not necessarily killing somebody, but that the word on the

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<v Speaker 1>street was there're ghosts out there that are doing harmful things,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's what brought Francis Smith out.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think you're right, funny because I looked over

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<v Speaker 2>this quite a few times, and every single time my

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<v Speaker 2>read of it was he was a criminal vigilante and

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<v Speaker 2>he knew that ghosts people were putting on the sheets

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<v Speaker 2>and doing it. But I think you're dead right. I

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<v Speaker 2>think he's he was a ghost hunter.

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<v Speaker 1>He was, and so he ran across Thomas Milwood, who

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<v Speaker 1>was I think a bricklayer. And Thomas Milwood was well

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<v Speaker 1>known for wearing white pants, white shirt, white apron and

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<v Speaker 1>his wife was even like, dude, you know there's like

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<v Speaker 1>a ghost panic going on out there. You probably should

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<v Speaker 1>wear something that's not white so people know, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you're not a ghost. And he says, after your labor day,

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<v Speaker 1>exactly right, it's so ghost, Francis.

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<v Speaker 2>You you got to put away that searsucker suit and

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<v Speaker 2>all your white stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly. So Thomas said, no, nay, stay out of my business.

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<v Speaker 1>I wear white and I like it. It's my signature color.

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<v Speaker 1>And she's like, it's not just a color, it's the

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<v Speaker 1>presence of all colors. And the conversation has kept going

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<v Speaker 1>on like this, but we'll take Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, and very sadly he was killed because of that.

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<v Speaker 2>They were at the trial. I believe they found out

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<v Speaker 2>that Millwood had supposedly scared this couple in a carriage

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<v Speaker 2>whinde out. Yeah, yeah, not like I'm trying to rob you.

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<v Speaker 2>Just like everyone thought he was, I guess a ghost,

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<v Speaker 2>even though it wasn't a sheet because he was wearing

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<v Speaker 2>all white. I'm kind of worrying about wondering about nineteenth

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<v Speaker 2>century London all of a sudden.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, same here. As a matter of fact, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>talk about superstitious.

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<v Speaker 2>So the long and the short of it is, Millwood

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<v Speaker 2>was sadly killed and Smith was sentenced to hang. Initially,

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<v Speaker 2>and King George the Third stepped in and said, Nope,

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<v Speaker 2>I like the cut of this guy's jib. Let's just

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<v Speaker 2>give him a full pardon. Pretty nice, Pretty nice. Shall

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<v Speaker 2>we take a break?

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<v Speaker 1>Let us take a break.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, all right, we'll be right back with more bed

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<v Speaker 2>sheet ghosting.

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<v Speaker 1>So bed sheets with ghosts are have been around for

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<v Speaker 1>quite a while, but there was like a there have

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<v Speaker 1>been diversions off of that straight path from then to now.

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<v Speaker 1>For example, ghosts were synonymous with wearing suits of armor,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly Hamlet, Hamlet's father when he comes back, he's wearing

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<v Speaker 1>a suit of armor, or Jacob Marley was just wearing

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<v Speaker 1>his regular clothes that he died in or was buried in,

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<v Speaker 1>but with chains or another one that lasted for a

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<v Speaker 1>really long time were just straight up skeletons, like anime

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<v Speaker 1>skeletons that were moving around and talking and scaring people.

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<v Speaker 1>They were essentially ghosts. But that bed sheet or that

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<v Speaker 1>burial shroud or whatever you want to call it, draped

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<v Speaker 1>over a dead person, that being a ghost. That's the

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<v Speaker 1>one that's really kind of become universal.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it was the nineteenth century that that really

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<v Speaker 2>really finally was fully embedded, when well, they didn't use

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<v Speaker 2>burial shrouds by that point. Most people were in coffins

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<v Speaker 2>at this point, but if you didn't have a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of money, you were still in that same position, but

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<v Speaker 2>instead of like a linen shroud, they would just wrap

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<v Speaker 2>you in the sheet on the bed that you died in,

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<v Speaker 2>basically y and wrap you up, tie knots on the

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<v Speaker 2>ends and thus ingrained the bedsheet ghost.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, hope you like that floral pattern because you're trapped

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<v Speaker 1>with it for a turnament.

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<v Speaker 2>Right for the star Wars sheets.

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<v Speaker 1>So the bed sheet and the dead person was so connected.

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<v Speaker 1>By the late nineteenth century, when spiritualism, a mediumship became

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<v Speaker 1>really popular. If you took a double exposed photo with

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<v Speaker 1>a person wearing a bed sheet and you superimposed it

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<v Speaker 1>next to the living person you were taking a ghost

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<v Speaker 1>photo of. They would see that and be like, oh

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<v Speaker 1>my god, there's a ghost right behind me. A person

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<v Speaker 1>wearing a bed sheet they would take to believe as

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<v Speaker 1>a ghost.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So of course psychics and mediums and people that

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<v Speaker 2>did stuff like that, they would have all sorts of

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<v Speaker 2>rigs to make it look like the ghost was in

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<v Speaker 2>the room with you, and it seemed like it work.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess they were making enough money doing it. Of course,

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<v Speaker 2>some people got in trouble for that kind of thing occasionally.

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<v Speaker 2>So eventually it moved to the stage, and they found

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<v Speaker 2>some theater scholars from the time that said, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we did some polling and we found that people are

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<v Speaker 2>more scared when we use the bedsheet ghost on stage

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<v Speaker 2>than just somebody in like white makeup rattling chains.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Leslie, the theater scholar who did the.

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<v Speaker 2>Polling from the candy company. Leslie gets around, right.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that the time when it became not scary

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<v Speaker 1>was when children's cartoons kind of took over the idea

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<v Speaker 1>of a bed sheet ghost and made them not scary

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<v Speaker 1>because these were children's cartoons. There's a really famous example

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<v Speaker 1>of Mickey Mouse cartoon from nineteen thirty seven called Lonesome Ghosts,

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<v Speaker 1>and the ghosts are not clearly wearing bed sheets. Because

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<v Speaker 1>what's interesting, Chuck is if you look at these ghosts,

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<v Speaker 1>or you look at Casper or the ghost or whatever,

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<v Speaker 1>they are white, transparentish and generally featureless. They'll have eyes

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<v Speaker 1>or a nose or something, but there's no general there's

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<v Speaker 1>no general shape to them. And it's like the bed

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<v Speaker 1>sheet covered ghost has now morphed into a ghost made

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<v Speaker 1>out of something like a bed sheet.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like Casper isn't a weird kid wearing a bed sheet, right,

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<v Speaker 2>Casper is made of bed sheet if you.

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<v Speaker 1>Look closely, though, I'm pretty sure it is Richie rich

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<v Speaker 1>under there, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh man, I never thought about that. That's I think

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<v Speaker 2>you might be right. I am never made that connection.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think, Chuck, we've proven, beyond the shadow of

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<v Speaker 1>a doubt that bed sheets are associated with ghosts.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and you know what I might I might do

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<v Speaker 2>that this year. I'm kind of short on costumes.

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<v Speaker 1>That's great. Well, one of these sites that you that

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<v Speaker 1>you came across suggests that if you're gonna use it

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<v Speaker 1>as a costume, find an old sheet that's frayed or thinning,

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<v Speaker 1>because it'll be ten times scarier.

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<v Speaker 2>M you know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna get

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<v Speaker 2>a brand new one and not even iron it so

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<v Speaker 2>it still has those folded crease markers.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the scariest of all.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the laziest costume of all.

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<v Speaker 1>You got anything else?

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<v Speaker 2>I got nothing else.

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<v Speaker 1>I got one thing. Happy Halloween, everybody, Happy Halloween. Short

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<v Speaker 1>Stuff's Out, if.

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<v Speaker 2>You should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more

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<v Speaker 2>podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:08.880
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