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Speaker 1: Welko our Jollins.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric Balchutas.

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Speaker 1: We got a big deal in the podcast today. I'm

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Speaker 1: excited about this one.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: We needed to counterweight. The last two were a little

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Speaker 2: off the cuff and we needed something heavier and deeper.

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Speaker 1: We needed a heavyweight. We did. So we're going to

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Speaker 1: be joined by George Gatch, who's the CEO of JP

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Speaker 1: Morgan Asset Management. I'm excited about this one in part

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Speaker 1: because JP Morgan has become such a big force in

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Speaker 1: the ETF industry relatively quickly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and active in general. People don't realize that when

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Speaker 2: you look at all the active mutual funds and ETFs

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Speaker 2: and you add it all together. JP Morgan is now

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Speaker 2: fourth after Capital Group, Fidelity and Vanguard, and they've come

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Speaker 2: up from like eighth in only a couple of years,

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Speaker 2: passing Pimpco DFA T. I mean these are heavyweight firms.

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Speaker 2: People may not know that. I think they think of

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Speaker 2: JP Morgan, they think of bank more so than asset management.

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Speaker 2: But that is some powerhouse surge there, and they have

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Speaker 2: taken in about four times more in inflows than any

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Speaker 2: other active shop. So they are on fire when it

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Speaker 2: comes to active and it really was embracing the ETF.

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Speaker 2: The ETF is the majority of those flows, although their

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Speaker 2: mutual funds are actually treading water, which is which helps

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Speaker 2: because they don't have to offset any outflows in the

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Speaker 2: mutual funds. Really, and the ETFs have been a big hit.

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Speaker 2: They've got a couple. They've got the biggest stock active

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Speaker 2: ETF and the biggest bond active ETF in the world.

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Speaker 1: Who knew muscle, that's what we call that. So joining

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Speaker 1: us in this episode George Gatch of JP Morgan's asset management,

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Speaker 1: this time on Trillions, the new heavyweight. George, Welcome to Trillions.

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Speaker 3: Oh, thank you, gentlemen. Great to be here.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So when people think of JP Morgan, I think

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Speaker 1: most of the time they think of Jamie Diamond and

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Speaker 1: the bank. Can you just describe how, how and where

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Speaker 1: the asset management part came from and how you've become

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Speaker 1: such a dominant force so quickly.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I think Jamie would refer to us as

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Speaker 3: the hidden gem within JP Morgan. We've been managing money

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Speaker 3: for a long long time, well over a century in fact,

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Speaker 3: if you replay the tapes a little bit in the

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Speaker 3: seventies during the trust banks JP Morgan Morgan guarantee trust

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Speaker 3: with the largest asset manager in the world. So we're

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Speaker 3: on a mission to regain that position as being the

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Speaker 3: best asset manager. We have eighty five hundred employees that

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Speaker 3: do only one thing, manage other people's money. One of

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Speaker 3: the largest commitments to research, fundamental research, and we differentiate

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Speaker 3: our size by being exclusively focused on active management. And

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Speaker 3: I think as we talk about our success in ets

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Speaker 3: and more broadly and active, I think that's a key,

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Speaker 3: key different trading point for us.

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Speaker 1: And when did that ETF light bulb first go off

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Speaker 1: for you?

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Speaker 3: Well, you would have to have been blind to have

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Speaker 3: not seen that ETFs were something that there was significant

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Speaker 3: amount of demand in the industry. And so about ten

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Speaker 3: years ago we said, we think this is a really

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Speaker 3: important innovation and benefit for investors. It was at that

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Speaker 3: time pretty much exclusive to passive but we thought we

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Speaker 3: needed to develop expertise and capabilities, and so we launched

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Speaker 3: our first ETFs, which were factor tilts essentially. So we're

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Speaker 3: trying to bring some degree of differentiation to the market

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Speaker 3: and we've been on a journey. One of the the

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Speaker 3: important differentiats I said before, is our focus on active is.

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Speaker 3: We had a debate within JP Morgan Asset Management about

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Speaker 3: should we try to be a scale passet manager. And

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Speaker 3: when I became CEO six years ago, I really made

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Speaker 3: the decision that we're going to focus on our straints

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Speaker 3: and put all of our resources in into active and

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Speaker 3: that was represented in the investments we made in our

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Speaker 3: ETF lineup. We do have some passive capabilities, but those

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Speaker 3: are really building blocks for our active multi asset strategies,

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Speaker 3: target date funds, and other things that we offer.

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Speaker 1: So when you showed up six years ago and already

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Speaker 1: Vanguard black Rock had the passive game like down, was

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Speaker 1: it more of like there's an opportunity and active that

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Speaker 1: those two have conceded and that's how we're going to

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Speaker 1: show up. Or was it like we'll get to the

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Speaker 1: passive stuff later, but we need something like a hallmark

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Speaker 1: product to really distinguish ourselves.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's amazing we saw, which is this massive

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Speaker 3: title wave of investors moving from active to passive and

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Speaker 3: you can see that and flows in mutual funds, and

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Speaker 3: that's also represented in the intellectual capital that many asset

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Speaker 3: managers they focus their resourcing, their research on tracking markets,

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Speaker 3: and they did a good job of it, and it

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Speaker 3: was highly a feeling to investors. I saw that as

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Speaker 3: an opportunity where we could help exploit the ability to

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Speaker 3: outperform markets because there was simply less focus on it

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Speaker 3: from most of our competitors. I also think there's this

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Speaker 3: kind of cultural underpinning that's very powerful. To have eighty

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Speaker 3: five hundred people that are all believe in the ability

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Speaker 3: if you have sustainable sources of information, of an information

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Speaker 3: advantage of the ability to outperform outperform markets. And that's

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Speaker 3: important for our sales teams, it's important for our product development, operations,

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Speaker 3: fund accounting, etc. Everyone believes that we have an advantage

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Speaker 3: and we can exploit that to help people outperform markets.

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Speaker 2: So I've been watching you for years. I saw you

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Speaker 2: guys come in and I saw the passive first sort

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Speaker 2: of the beta knockoffs. They did okay, there was some

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Speaker 2: BYO money, but then JEPPI to me, really changed everything

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Speaker 2: in gp JPST. That's the bond in the stock when

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Speaker 2: they're the biggest. What I've found interesting and what I

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Speaker 2: think this is my theory on why it has worked

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Speaker 2: so well because you came in and really made an

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Speaker 2: impact on something that people were kind of writing off

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Speaker 2: a little bit. Most of these big asset managers, they

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Speaker 2: were like, hey, let's come out with like free index

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Speaker 2: funds like Fidelity, just to offset the active outflows. So

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Speaker 2: we look like we're you know, in business still versus

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Speaker 2: just bleeding out slowly. But you guys are like, no,

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Speaker 2: we can make active work. One thing you did that

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Speaker 2: I think takes guts though, is the expense ratios. To me,

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Speaker 2: they are they feel fair. You know. A lot of

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Speaker 2: the problem with the active management is it's like ninety

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Speaker 2: basis points. It's largely S and P five hundred stocks.

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Speaker 2: They came in jep's thirty five BIPs. That's the same

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Speaker 2: as the R six class of your mutual fund, which

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Speaker 2: is the cheapest class. So in essence, they're giving the

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Speaker 2: ETF investors sort of the cheaper share class of the

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Speaker 2: mutual fund. Not only that, you get fundamental stock picking.

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Speaker 2: There's an options overlay, so there's a lot of legwork involved.

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Speaker 2: And it's JP Morgan. So I'm thinking of an advisor always.

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Speaker 2: I'm always in their brain going does this seem like

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Speaker 2: a good deal. It's like they can go to their

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Speaker 2: client now and say, look, I'm going to get you

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Speaker 2: JP Morgan. That'll that's really cool. That's lucky you have that.

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Speaker 2: A lot of firms don't. I'm going to get you

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Speaker 2: in options overlay. And it's just like it's going to

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Speaker 2: take the ball down a little bit, YadA YadA. It

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Speaker 2: feels fair at thirty five BIPs, and I think that's

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Speaker 2: part of the magic.

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Speaker 3: Would you agree, Yeah, no, absolutely, you know, and I

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Speaker 3: think we all know, and we've looked at other industries

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Speaker 3: and other firms. If you don't evolve and adjust your

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Speaker 3: business model to the changing needs of investors financial advisors,

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Speaker 3: your business will with her. And so you know, we

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Speaker 3: made decisions to build products we think that, from both

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Speaker 3: a pricing and an investment standpoint, have a highly differentiated

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Speaker 3: offer relative to others. Now, we didn't apply the strategy

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Speaker 3: of a covered call options only in an ETF. We

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Speaker 3: actually did it first in a mutual fund. So what

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Speaker 3: we're doing is bringing our best ideas that we have

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Speaker 3: in mutual funds, separately managed accounts, what we've run for institutions,

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Speaker 3: and then putting them in an ETF and then going

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Speaker 3: through a process of how do we price that relative

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Speaker 3: to the value that we're adding to investors. And the

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Speaker 3: great thing about ETFs is there's very few little friction

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Speaker 3: relative to revenue share or transfer agency costs or other things,

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Speaker 3: so it allows us to do it at a price

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Speaker 3: point where then financial advisors can make the decisions to

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Speaker 3: add fees for the services they're providing. And so what

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Speaker 3: this has really done is seeing the disconnecting between manufacturing

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Speaker 3: and the costs associated with manufacturing versus services related to

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Speaker 3: advice and financial planning and other components of high value

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Speaker 3: added things that advisors do themselves. And I think that's

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Speaker 3: one of the reasons that ETFs has grown so rapidly,

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Speaker 3: both in passive and active, which is you see this

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Speaker 3: movement towards fee based programs and away from transactional revenue

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Speaker 3: sharing and other things that's good for investors, and so

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Speaker 3: we're playing to that theme and the way that we

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Speaker 3: price in service products.

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Speaker 2: I will say, you make that sound easy, but over

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Speaker 2: the years, I think the fun companies that are just

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Speaker 2: fun companies, it is tougher for them. I see them

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Speaker 2: sometimes try to make the ETF industry come to their

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Speaker 2: on their terms and it doesn't work. You kind of

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Speaker 2: have to meet the ETF industry on its terms, and

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Speaker 2: I thought JPM was.

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Speaker 1: Like Judo a little bit, like we're going to use

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Speaker 1: the energy and like redirect it a little bit rather

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Speaker 1: than take it head on. If you like that, I've

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Speaker 1: brought Olympic sports in here.

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Speaker 2: I like metaphors. I don't know about that one, but

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Speaker 2: it's it's hopefully everybody listening understands. That flew over my

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Speaker 2: head a little bit. But the idea of having a

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Speaker 2: bank where asset management is a portion of the revenue,

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Speaker 2: and obviously Jamie Diamond has all these other groups making money.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of things to work on and so

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Speaker 2: it's not like the whole thing depends on this one

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Speaker 2: mutual fund revenue stream. So you can make that ETF

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Speaker 2: leap a little easier because it does involve us a

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Speaker 2: little bit of self cannibalization. Although if you get enough assets,

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Speaker 2: you win in the end. But it's been tough for

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Speaker 2: the traditional nineties er mutual fund company to do that

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Speaker 2: because this is all they have. And I don't know,

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Speaker 2: do you feel like that that you work in this

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Speaker 2: gigantic diversified bank type company. Does it give you a

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Speaker 2: little more freedom or is that more just the Jamie

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Speaker 2: Diamond management thing to just let you do what you

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Speaker 2: need to do, because I don't feel like others are

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Speaker 2: given the keys so much as you guys were in

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Speaker 2: terms of pricing it and being able to sort of

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Speaker 2: maybe go a little cheaper than you probably would like to.

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Speaker 3: The way I think about it is the asset management

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Speaker 3: business is to serve investor, and we are measured to

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Speaker 3: compete with the best asset managers in the world. That's

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Speaker 3: the way the board and that's the way Jamie judges

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Speaker 3: us with us, and we have the ability because it

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Speaker 3: is a fiduciary business is a very important point, and

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Speaker 3: we're hemetically sealed because of the conflicts that exists between

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Speaker 3: the bank and the asset management. We can't trade in

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Speaker 3: our ETFs with JP Morgan Chasing Company, but we have

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Speaker 3: the ability to reach out and pull in the expertise

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Speaker 3: and skills that are maybe difficult for other monoline asset

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Speaker 3: management firms to get. Cyber technology, artificial intelligence that bank

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Speaker 3: has since seventeen billion dollars a year on technology. We

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Speaker 3: have the ability to pull in generative AI expertise to

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Speaker 3: help apply that to managing managing money. So I would

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Speaker 3: describe this as the best of both worlds. The other

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Speaker 3: thing I would point out, which I think is important

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Speaker 3: for us, is they're kind of two I think two

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Speaker 3: ways that asset managers approcess. One is around marketing what's

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Speaker 3: best to sell, and then you have others who are

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Speaker 3: deep fiduciary managers where they lead from the investment standpoint,

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Speaker 3: how do you generate returns for clients and a risk

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Speaker 3: adjusted away. Some lean too much in one way, therefore

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Speaker 3: haven't been able to adapt their product offering rap enough.

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Speaker 3: Others lead the other way, and they end up producing

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Speaker 3: products that don't aren't in the interest long term investing

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Speaker 3: interest of investors. What I think we have been able

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Speaker 3: to do is balance that decision making between a very

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Speaker 3: strong investment led fraduciary culture and a very strong focus

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Speaker 3: on investor needs and demands and adapting our product line

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Speaker 3: and capability more rapidly, maybe than some of our competitors have.

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Speaker 1: We talk about a lot how the ETF is a

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Speaker 1: terror dome, the ETF industry is a terrordome, and that

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Speaker 1: you know it's taxing, especially for all the juggernauts that

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Speaker 1: have to compete with one another. What's it feel like

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Speaker 1: to walk into the Terrordome every day and have to compete.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's great. I mean this is this is one

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Speaker 3: of the most exciting areas of the industry. I mean

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Speaker 3: the level of innovation. You pointed out the competition, and

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Speaker 3: it is invigorating for our teams and my people. And

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Speaker 3: I think that's one of the things because ETFs are

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Speaker 3: maybe they've been around for a long time, but they're

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Speaker 3: quite fresh as it relates to, you know, the active

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Speaker 3: asset management space, and I think it's it's it's bad,

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Speaker 3: you know, a degree of optimism and focus on the future,

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Speaker 3: and the competition is awesome. You think about, like what

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Speaker 3: the competition of the asset management space is meant for

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Speaker 3: the quality of what investors get today, and the innovations

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Speaker 3: that we've seen in mutual funds and separately managed tax

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Speaker 3: optimization and all of that I think is calling in

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Speaker 3: a seismic shift that's happening where ETFs will likely be

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Speaker 3: the most important product and vehicle for individual investors and

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Speaker 3: maybe institutions for the next decade. So I think it's

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Speaker 3: incredibly exciting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, do it you like to compete against you?

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Speaker 3: I feel sorry for them.

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Speaker 2: Actually, that's a good segue. I have a good example

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Speaker 2: of what I think of one of the We always

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Speaker 2: look for these interesting matchups inside different categories. And you

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Speaker 2: know I titled this Vanguard versus JP Morgan grabbed the popcorn.

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Speaker 1: So JP Morgan popcorn for that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is really interesting to me. JP

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Speaker 2: Morgan launched a high yield active bond e tf JPHY.

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Speaker 2: It's seeded with two billion, which is unheard of.

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Speaker 1: Pretty good start.

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Speaker 2: That's a good start. You're already the biggest one. Nice

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Speaker 2: just like that's like born on home plate right there. Now.

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Speaker 2: A couple of weeks later, Vanguard filed for an active

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Speaker 2: junk bond ETF and everybody had been writing them off

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Speaker 2: because people had thought they would file for a drunk

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Speaker 2: bond ETF at some point. Everybody wanted them to because

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Speaker 2: they have a mutual fund, and they never did. And

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Speaker 2: I think you got them to launch, in my opinion,

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Speaker 2: because they see the numbers. Vanguard is nineteenth in active

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Speaker 2: ETF and they're not nineteenth in anything. That probably pisses

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Speaker 2: them off. And they see you come in, you're cleaning up,

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Speaker 2: you're running circles around them, and you're bab basically biting

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Speaker 2: at their heels right now in third place of overall active,

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Speaker 2: so that I really I can't ever say I've seen

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Speaker 2: Vanguard look a little nervous, but this looks like that.

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Speaker 3: Because Vanguard is a great firm and obviously huge innovator

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Speaker 3: in ETF space. The way I think about it, three

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Speaker 3: trillion dollars in fixed income ETFs globally, five percent of

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Speaker 3: that is indexed passive. This is a space where the

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Speaker 3: average manager outperforms the market. So I think investors have

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Speaker 3: loved the ETF package and therefore have gone down that

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Speaker 3: path of allocating to fixed income, and now that their

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Speaker 3: world class capabilities active capabilities in ETFs, I think we're

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Speaker 3: going to see a massive shift. And what we did

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Speaker 3: was we went to one of our largest clients, one

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Speaker 3: of the most sophisticated asset owners in the world, and

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Speaker 3: asked them whether they wanted to participate in us launching

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Speaker 3: a high yield ETF. And that shows the strengths of

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Speaker 3: our traditional institutional business and relationship. On day one, the

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Speaker 3: ETF had four hundred and fifty positions source from our

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Speaker 3: credit and portfolio management capabilities. So as an investor, if

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Speaker 3: you can into our fund on its first day, you

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Speaker 3: would have be fully diversified UH in the in the

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Speaker 3: sectors and securities that we think are our most attractive.

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Speaker 3: It's a great thing. I never thought I would see

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Speaker 3: the day where we were able to launch a e

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Speaker 3: t F and have it be the largest et F

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Speaker 3: in the category on day on day one. It's a

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Speaker 3: great position to be in.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about JEPY because we mentioned earlier

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Speaker 1: JP Morgan Equity Premium income ETF that has just crushed it.

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Speaker 1: And can you dissect why JEFPY has been such a success.

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Speaker 1: And also were there any other names that you considered

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Speaker 1: for the ticker?

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Speaker 3: We're always wondering about the best, the best, the best tickers.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think this is you know, as I

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Speaker 3: said before, this is not a strategy that was first

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Speaker 3: in the ets. It came to our mutual fund lineup first,

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Speaker 3: UH and and it all fors the investors the opportunity

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Speaker 3: to get their toe in the water, get allocation to

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Speaker 3: the upside potential of equities, but at the same time

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Speaker 3: generate very attractive income and have some less volatility and delivers.

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Speaker 3: So I think it's an idea that has applications to

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Speaker 3: every asset class. I think it's a core position over

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Speaker 3: the over the long term, as we see volatility spike,

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Speaker 3: you're likely to see greater demand for these types of products.

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Speaker 3: In markets like today, where you have UH momentum in

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Speaker 3: stock prices, it's likely to be something that's not the

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Speaker 3: first the first choice, but over time in a market cycle.

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Speaker 3: I think these strategies and we've obviously replicated it not

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Speaker 3: just an S and P five hundred which JEFP. We've

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Speaker 3: done it in Nasdaq stocks with j E p Q.

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Speaker 3: We've also applied a similar strategy to our hedged equity.

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Speaker 3: We have one for US strategy and we also have

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Speaker 3: one for an international strategy called OLAH. So I think

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Speaker 3: these types of products that give you equity exposures either

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Speaker 3: downside protection or high levels of income will continue to

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Speaker 3: be quite attractive. We launched them around the world Canada

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Speaker 3: our product range and USETS in Europe. We were the

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Speaker 3: first to list a active ETF strategy in Hong Kong

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Speaker 3: two weeks ago, which is actually a replica of jeffs.

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Speaker 3: So this is an error where we're seeing demand globally

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Speaker 3: around the world to these types of strategies.

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Speaker 2: If you look at Europe, I was just in Europe

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Speaker 2: a couple of weeks ago, and Henry showed me the

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Speaker 2: active ETFs there. JP Morgan is like in a league

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Speaker 2: of their own, so like here there obviously right up

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Speaker 2: there there's a couple good active ETF managers, although some

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Speaker 2: of them take money from the mutual funds, so they

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Speaker 2: offset when you look at the boat. That's why when

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Speaker 2: I looked at your numbers in terms of mutual fund

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Speaker 2: plus ETF, it was very impressive because your mutual funds

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Speaker 2: were able to at least eke out a little bit

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Speaker 2: of flows, which is not the norm. JEPQ, which is

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Speaker 2: the one you mentioned. It's jetp's little brother, except it's

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Speaker 2: a little more feisty because the cues have more volatility.

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Speaker 2: So it seems like to me that jepq's double any

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Speaker 2: other of your ETFs and flows this year. So it's

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Speaker 2: kind of like it hasn't surpassed JETPI in assets, but

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Speaker 2: it's it's getting, you know, it's taking in more money.

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Speaker 2: I think the idea here is if you write call

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Speaker 2: options on the cues, what you do is you give

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Speaker 2: up extreme upside, but what you get in return is

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Speaker 2: some income. So it yields eleven percent that income can

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Speaker 2: actually buffer the downside a little, so in essence, it's

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Speaker 2: like diet cues in a way, and that to me

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Speaker 2: is a strong selling point that is somewhat performance proof

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Speaker 2: because if you have a year where you underperform the cues,

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Speaker 2: the value proposition is still there because a lot of

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Speaker 2: older investors are like, I'm happy to give up a

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Speaker 2: little upside. I really I've made a lot of money

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Speaker 2: and that deal they strike with an issuer like jep

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Speaker 2: Q or JETPY, it's a brilliant concept because it doesn't

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Speaker 2: totally rely on performance year to year like say other ETFs.

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Speaker 3: Do I have that right? Yeah? Absolutely. I think this

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Speaker 3: is why these strategies are so durable because I think

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Speaker 3: the demand for these types of products of high income,

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Speaker 3: exposure to equity markets, and less volatility. I think that's

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Speaker 3: a theme that we're going to see to continue continue

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Speaker 3: to play out. Now. It is the number one selling

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Speaker 3: product that we have year to date, and I think

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Speaker 3: there is an important point relative to kind of our

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Speaker 3: strategy around this. If you look at we got into

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Speaker 3: the business and saw strong flows through these derivative income

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Speaker 3: strategies JETP and jep Q, and through our short duration

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Speaker 3: fixed income JPST, which is the largest fixed income ETF

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Speaker 3: in the business. But over the last two years, more

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Speaker 3: than half of our total flows have been in other products.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's what I see. I'm so encouraged

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Speaker 3: about the strength of active fixed income, which I mentioned

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Speaker 3: mentioned before, our JPI, which is an income fixed income ETF,

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Speaker 3: our Core Plus strategy, which is our best selling fixed

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Speaker 3: income capabilities. I think that's what you're going to see

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Speaker 3: happen in the in the industry is we're going to

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Speaker 3: see more and more flows expanding into other into other

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Speaker 3: areas as more investment capabilities become available.

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Speaker 2: And you also you oversee everything, right, So you've got

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Speaker 2: mutual funds ETF And I read a little bit about

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Speaker 2: your push into alternatives. What does that mean? What for you?

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Speaker 2: What is the push and alternatives? Black Rock says the

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Speaker 2: same thing. I think some people like, what does that mean?

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Speaker 2: And what kind of products door we expect?

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Speaker 1: And does it mean crypto?

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Speaker 2: Don't worry, I'll get there.

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Speaker 3: So sixty forty diversified investing all alternatives to a diversified

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Speaker 3: portfolio and new increase return and reduce risks not a

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Speaker 3: new novel idea. It's been around for a long long time.

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Speaker 3: We've provided those tools for our big institutional clients for

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Speaker 3: a long long time, and we've got leading capabilities in

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Speaker 3: real estate, infrastructure, hedge, fund of funds, private equity, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: And I think there's two parts of this. One is

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Speaker 3: we believe in building stuff internally, so we have a

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Speaker 3: number of investment strategies that we've seated growth, private equity,

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Speaker 3: and number of things that you know, over time will

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Speaker 3: become important options for our clients. So that's part of

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Speaker 3: it expanding the universe of offerings that we have for clients.

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Speaker 2: So you said private equity, and I think did you

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Speaker 2: launch an interval fund that has private equity credit or both?

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Speaker 3: Yes, we have. We have two strategies today that are

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Speaker 3: private wealth alternatives. One is called JPMF which is a

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Speaker 3: private equity strategy private equity secondaries, co invest and fund

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Speaker 3: of fund And we also have a jpm RET which

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Speaker 3: is a ten tender offer strategy, and both of those

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Speaker 3: are designed for individual investors, have lower minimums, W two,

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Speaker 3: tax reporting, etc.

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Speaker 2: But the interval means you can only get your money

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Speaker 2: out quarterly, something like that or is.

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Speaker 3: This something It depends on the strategy and the fund.

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Speaker 3: But yes, there tend to be limits on redemption. These

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Speaker 3: are these are ill liquid strategies, so it's very important

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Speaker 3: relative to you know, education and disclosures to clients.

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Speaker 2: It's interesting you picked the Interval fund. You're not alone.

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Speaker 2: I think Blackstone picked one. Vanguard is looking into it.

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Speaker 2: But there is a small shop or two in State

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Speaker 2: Street that try is trying to put privates into ETFs.

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Speaker 2: I do think ETFs are the pervert vehicle that to me,

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Speaker 2: they are like digital music, and Interval fund feels like

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Speaker 2: putting it into a CD. You probably could get it

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Speaker 2: done and listen to the music that way, but it's

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Speaker 2: not as convenient. On the flip side, privates are ill liquid,

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Speaker 2: so you know people hesitate to put them. But what

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Speaker 2: do you think of this move to try to get

434
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 2: privates into ETFs and even further to democratize them fully.

435
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 2: There's some talk of like, well, this is the private

436
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: companies just trying to unload this stuff on retail because

437
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 2: they had a nice run and the naves that they

438
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 2: price all the private sets sometimes aren't quite reflective of

439
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 2: reality versus when you put something in an ETF, you

440
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 2: got to price it every day. I don't know. What

441
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 2: do you think of all that. It seems like something

442
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 2: that's on the cusp of like really breaking through to

443
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 2: the retail world.

444
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, Eric, I think it's I think that's a great question.

445
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 3: Interval products, and there's a range of capabilities that now

446
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 3: can be delivered in structures designed for ill liquid securities,

447
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:02,919
Speaker 3: and that's where our focuses is building out these capabilities

448
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 3: of private equity, private credit, infrastructure, et cetera, to make

449
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 3: them available to individual investors to complement sixty sixty forty ets,

450
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 3: like public mutual funds are priced daily. ILL liquid securities

451
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 3: have been used in public mutual funds and in ets,

452
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:26,400
Speaker 3: but below the fifteen percent liquidity ILL liquid bucket. And

453
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 3: I think the principle should be if a product is

454
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 3: priced on a daily basis, that there should be limits

455
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 3: to the amount of securities and the strategy around valuations.

456
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,439
Speaker 3: So I think we should be very cautious about how

457
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 3: we integrate private securities into ETF structures. There are other

458
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 3: vehicles where it makes more sense. The disclosure is better. Now.

459
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 3: I'm not saying there aren't opportunities to include I liquid

460
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 3: securities in ets. We have to be very mindful of

461
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 3: the issues that you raise.

462
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,080
Speaker 1: How much demand is there from on the consumer side

463
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 1: for products that you know, I have this that liquid stuff.

464
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: But are you know, effectively ANTF. Do you see the

465
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: demand there?

466
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 3: No, not necessarily. I mean I say demands for the

467
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 3: ETF structures which are suitable for you know, daily valued securities.

468
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 3: So I'm not saying we see a you know, significant amount.

469
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 3: Now we do see demand for private alternatives to individual

470
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 3: investors significant significant demand.

471
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 2: Question though, is the demand because these private equity vehicles

472
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 2: seem to have less volatility and can be a true alternative.

473
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 2: But then you know, there is some criticism that, well,

474
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 2: the reason they're alternatives or have lower volatility is because

475
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 2: they don't have to like live in reality of a

476
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 2: true market. For example, SpaceX probably has a similar profile

477
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 2: to Tesla, but you wouldn't know it from the navs.

478
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 2: And I think this is one of the critiques of

479
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 2: private equity is that largely they're to move like public

480
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: equities if you put them in the you know, reality.

481
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 2: And I believe there was even a story on Bloomberg

482
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 2: about like JP Morgan trying to trade some of these

483
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 2: and these private shops. It just seems like they're a

484
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 2: little hesitant to actually let this stuff into the reality

485
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 2: of a real market, because it's like it would like,

486
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 2: remove the veil, what's the emperor's new clothes, what's the

487
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: The emperor has no clothes. The emperor has no low volatility. Sorry,

488
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 2: that's almost as bad as your Judo metaphor. But you

489
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. Am I wrong there? Or do

490
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 2: you think there's some of that fear of like? And

491
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 2: so does retail? Do they understand that or is it

492
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 2: just a matter of like less companies go public. Hey,

493
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 2: I want a piece of the action of these companies,

494
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:45,800
Speaker 2: but you know that aren't going public.

495
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 3: I mean these these securities trade on appointment, and I

496
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 3: think you have to be not not not not every

497
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 3: minute of the day, and so I think you know

498
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 3: that needs to be taken into consideration. But there's some

499
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 3: realities here, right which is a decade ago, there were

500
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 3: eight thousand public companies. Today they're four thousand. There are

501
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 3: multiples of that in terms of private companies that offer

502
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 3: return opportunities to clients, and the same is true in

503
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 3: the fixed income markets. There is a large, growing market

504
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 3: of private securities that offer return opportunities for individual investors.

505
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 3: The question is packaging that in the right way. If

506
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 3: investors have long time arisons, they shouldn't be concerned about

507
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 3: what the pricing is on any individual moment. And I

508
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 3: think that's the opportunity with some of these vehicles that

509
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 3: offer exposure to these markets but are also disclosed that

510
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 3: you're not going to get your money every day. Ets

511
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 3: you're going to get your money every day. Valuation is

512
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 3: incredibly important, and that needs to be the premise around

513
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 3: the types of securities that you include in these portfolios.

514
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 3: And I do agree. I think the people are salivating

515
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 3: over the opportunity in the ETF market and the individual market,

516
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 3: and they want access to it. But we have to

517
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 3: be thoughtful about it. And I think that that's the

518
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 3: perspective that we bring.

519
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 2: Speaking a thoughtful when I've been running these numbers on

520
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 2: ibit and ETHA that's the black Rock, Bitcoin and Ether ETF.

521
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 2: When I run like fastest to twenty billion, and I

522
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 2: look at all the ETFs that have got to twenty

523
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 2: billion quickly or fastest to ten billion, I bit blowing

524
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 2: everybody away.

525
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: But guess who.

526
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 2: Guess who's record they're breaking. It's either IMG which was

527
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 2: a fast end jetpy. So here comes ibit getting to

528
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 2: ten billion, twenty billion, thirty billion, four or five six

529
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: times faster than Jeppy, which was in some cases the

530
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 2: fastest to that number. You see that, What do you

531
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 2: think is there any any bit of like jealousy, like hey,

532
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 2: we should get a piece of that action or I

533
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 2: don't know. I'm just curious as the numbers grow and

534
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 2: become more astonishing, and a firm like JP Morgan, which

535
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 2: is traditionally it's not what you do, and if that's

536
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 2: your roadmap, it wouldn't make sense. But on the flip side,

537
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 2: more companies are doing it, and it's growing and growing,

538
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 2: and you may hear clients asking for just curious, how

539
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 2: you you know, wrestle with all that.

540
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, I think we have a guiding principle around

541
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 3: what types of ETFs we will launch, and we're going

542
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 3: to launch ETFs that we believe are durable and have

543
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 3: a strategy for how to incorporate into a long term

544
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 3: investment strategy. Now, I know that may sound kind of boring,

545
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 3: but boring can be quite successful investment investment strategy. So

546
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 3: that may mean that we move, we lose some trendy

547
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 3: fatty ideas, but we're going to you know, we're going

548
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 3: to stick to our guns. I think that cryptocurrencies are

549
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 3: quite a speculative investment, investment in quotation, and it has

550
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 3: significantly higher volatility in the S and P five hundred,

551
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 3: no income, no intrinsic value. We don't know how to

552
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 3: incorporate it into an investment. I'm not saying it's a

553
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 3: bad thing. I'm just saying we we don't see a way.

554
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 3: That we have summer analysts who come in and one

555
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 3: of the projects we always give them is give us

556
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 3: an investment thesis around crypto bitcoin. Uh, And they come

557
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,479
Speaker 3: back and say, we can't tell you how to value

558
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 3: a bitcoin. And so that's that's the premise around our

559
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 3: investment capabilities. And listen, there are lots of ideas that

560
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 3: people are launching water ETFs, animal spirit ETF. So that

561
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 3: doesn't mean they're good ideas, and we're going to We're

562
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 3: going to stick to those things that we think makes

563
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 3: sense for for investors. And that's the discipline we bring

564
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 3: to our product development efforts.

565
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: If you could pick up one thing in the ETF

566
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:46,520
Speaker 1: marketplace and bolt it to your strategy, what would you

567
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: like to.

568
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 3: Acquire what would I like to acquire?

569
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, what ETF out there would you most like to

570
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: bring into your stable?

571
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 3: Listen. I think acquiring things as an asset manager is

572
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 3: credibly difficult to do successfully. We run almost four trillion

573
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 3: dollars of assets, we have over five hundred strategies. There

574
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 3: isn't a gap in our offering. I also find it

575
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 3: having built a lot of businesses at JP Morgan over

576
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 3: the last thirty nine years, from our global money market

577
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 3: fund business to our mutual fund business to our ETF business.

578
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 3: Let me tell you it is a hell a lot

579
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 3: more fund building things that it is acquiring things. And

580
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 3: now that doesn't mean where we don't look at everything

581
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 3: we do because I think it makes you, it makes

582
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 3: you smarter. I think there's quite a different culture in

583
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 3: the ETF business because it grew out of passive. So

584
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 3: the strategy was let's launch against as many indices, be

585
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 3: first and own as much of the market as possible.

586
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,719
Speaker 3: I think as that relates to active, it's quite a

587
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 3: different philosophy that you need to bring to it to

588
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:56,479
Speaker 3: be successful because the strategies ultimately have to helperform in

589
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 3: order to succeed, and that means it needs to be

590
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 3: more focused, and they need to be capabilities that you

591
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 3: have total confidence over full market CYCLI or likely to outperform.

592
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 3: So ours isn't to do everything at all costs. It's

593
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 3: to do things at a very focused level where we

594
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 3: have a competitive advantage. I'd rather build it than buy it.

595
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 2: You're in a good spot. I mean you really, I

596
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 2: get that. A lot of these firms, Joel that have

597
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,720
Speaker 2: acquired firms, they came in late and again they launched

598
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,919
Speaker 2: a couple of products on their terms and nobody cared.

599
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 2: And they're like, oh my god, they panicked and they

600
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 2: just bought companies like I said, JP Morgan had they

601
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 2: just it's like they just came in. You know. I

602
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 2: used that metaphor of a castaway. You know, Tom Hanks

603
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 2: is the middle manager. At the beginning, he's like a

604
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 2: little chunky and then you know, forty five minutes in

605
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 2: the movie, he's like weighs one hundred and forty pounds

606
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 2: and he's spearfishing. That's a legacy active manager on day

607
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: one versus third year in. But JP Morgan kind of

608
00:34:55,040 --> 00:35:01,240
Speaker 2: came almost as the spearfisher guy. And that's you know again,

609
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 2: and I don't know, does Jamie Diamond take pride in

610
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 2: this because it really is unusual to come out and

611
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 2: sort of pass all of these massively popular mutual fund

612
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 2: companies and active assets. Does he understand that, like, hey,

613
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 2: my firm is taking in four times more flows than

614
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 2: any other active fund company out there? Does he follow

615
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 2: that much going on?

616
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: Is?

617
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 3: I think he greatly appreciates the asset management business and

618
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 3: the strength of what we do. Now. Remember Jping Morgan

619
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 3: Chase is number one in investment banking, number one in

620
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 3: retail banking in the United States, So perhaps his expectations

621
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 3: are that we bring the same from management business.

622
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: Yes, he's like, why are you not number one?

623
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 3: But listen, you know, I think the thing that the

624
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 3: board of Jping Morgan Chase, one of the things that

625
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,680
Speaker 3: I think they've done a great job is they allow

626
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 3: us to manage our business as an asset manager. That's

627
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 3: the way we compensate eight people. Our business has a

628
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 3: very long tail. The decisions that we made five ten

629
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 3: years ago are the reason that we're having success today.

630
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 3: So it's a little bit different, and I think they,

631
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 3: you know, allow us to manage the business that way.

632
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: All right, final question, it's one that we always ask

633
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: what is your favorite ETF ticket other than any that

634
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,240
Speaker 1: JP Morgan does, other.

635
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 3: Than a JP Morgan ETF. Oh that's a very difficult question.

636
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 3: That's why I asked. I mean, I really only know

637
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 3: our ETF.

638
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: So yeah, any any that give you a chuckle when

639
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: somebody says moo, for instance, does that make you laugh?

640
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 3: I laugh quite a bit when I watch look at

641
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 3: ETF product development and what's what's coming out? That is?

642
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 3: That is for sure?

643
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 2: They just fired. They just filed one Jedi, which is

644
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,720
Speaker 2: like JEPI Jedi is a I believe it's a Space

645
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: ETF or something like that Drone.

646
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: I would hope it Space.

647
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 3: That's a good ticker.

648
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: It is a good ticker. So Jetty Jedi and now

649
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 2: Jetpy anyway, Jetpy's pretty good. It's I'm a big fan

650
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 2: of vowels, and you guys have a lot of vowels.

651
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 2: Jet by jet Q. It's just easy for an analyst.

652
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 2: Jpst a little trick here, but hello, what do you

653
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 2: call it? Hello? Sometimes I have names for tickers and

654
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 2: the asset managers, like nobody at our shop calls at

655
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 2: that like jaw.

656
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:26,760
Speaker 1: You're not pronouncing it great Janus.

657
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 2: People are like, that's j triple A, only the Bloomberg

658
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,760
Speaker 2: people call it JAW And I'm like, all right, well.

659
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 3: Anyway, that's one of the amazing things about the ETF

660
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 3: effort at JP Morgan. I'm not sure portfolio managers knew

661
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 3: the tickers of our mutual funds. Well, let me tell you.

662
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 3: They know the tickers of the ets that they're running,

663
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 3: and they you know, what's probably the most important product

664
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 3: capability that they they offer, and it's how they get paid.

665
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 3: They get paid and the shares of the ETFs that

666
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 3: they run on behalf of clients. It's pretty unique.

667
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 2: Ola Jade, that's a good one.

668
00:37:56,920 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: What's jade?

669
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 2: That is the active developed markets? So you got a

670
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 2: temp some some interesting ones in here. You wouldn't it

671
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 2: would be weird if you went too crazy. You don't

672
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 2: want to go to full.

673
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's the full direction.

674
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 2: They're the crazy ticker. Yeah, you want to middle it out?

675
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, all right, George got going to stay mainstream.

676
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: George Gosh, thanks for joining us on trias. Thank you,

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00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:28,399
Speaker 1: John Munch, thanks for listening to trillions. Until next time.

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00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,120
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679
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,839
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00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:36,640
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00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: social I'm at Joel Weber Show, He's at Eric Falchine's.

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00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: Trillions is produced by Magnus Hendrickson. Brendan Newman is our

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00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: executive producer. Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcast