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Speaker 1: It's that time, time, time, Luck and Load.

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Speaker 2: The Michael Vari Show is on the air.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting to me in the course of my life

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Speaker 3: different things that happened that I noticed. How we deal

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Speaker 3: with the concept of accountability and consequences and.

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Speaker 2: How they are extolled or forgotten.

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Speaker 4: In the common conversation and in the popular culture. Really

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Speaker 4: interesting phenomenon to me, because we have a tendency to

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Speaker 4: ignore the idea. Do whatever you want, damn the consequence.

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Speaker 4: Do what makes you feel good, what gives you gratification.

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Speaker 4: I think gratification is a better word than happiness. This

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Speaker 4: happiness is a silly word. Nobody's walking around and we're happy.

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Speaker 4: We're all happy all the time. Test happy, you'd get

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Speaker 4: bored being happy?

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Speaker 2: You would.

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Speaker 4: Jordan Peterson has really done some important work on this subject.

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Speaker 4: He's not the first, but he's the first to take

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Speaker 4: it to such a big audience. And the idea that

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Speaker 4: he has that he has really popularized is that the

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Speaker 4: pursuit of happiness per se is a fool's errand you

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Speaker 4: never actually achieve happiness. Many people are watching pop culture

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Speaker 4: and they think the Kardashians are happy, or Diddy is

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Speaker 4: Epstein is happy. Or Lizo or whoever else, And then

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Speaker 4: they're shocked to find out that person isn't happy in

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Speaker 4: the sense that they believe they would be happy, this

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Speaker 4: euphoria overcoming you at all times in warm sensation, and

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Speaker 4: believe it or not, even though that person is their hero.

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Speaker 4: That person is they would sell off their kidney to

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Speaker 4: get to go to a concert, to just be part

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Speaker 4: of a screaming, teeming, massive people cheering that that person

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Speaker 4: is singing the song they've already heard of them, but

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Speaker 4: in the same zip code as them. They're also delighted

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Speaker 4: to learn that those people are usually miserable because they

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Speaker 4: have been on a journey to the destination of happiness,

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Speaker 4: and as it turns out, happiness is not neverland. So

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Speaker 4: that makes him feel good because I may not be happy,

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Speaker 4: but it turns out that person is supposed.

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Speaker 2: To be happy.

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Speaker 4: He's supposed to be happy, and he's not happy, So

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Speaker 4: that makes me feel better because I thought he was

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Speaker 4: just sitting overre just being happy all the time. But

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Speaker 4: what Jordan Peterson has done I think groundbreaking work in

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Speaker 4: terms of taking it to the masses. As I say,

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Speaker 4: it's not the first to come up with this. I

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Speaker 4: understand this. The idea that happiness is not the pursuit

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Speaker 4: of man should not be the pursuit of man.

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Speaker 2: It's a throwaway terms.

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Speaker 4: It's a simplistic term that has become a catch all.

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Speaker 4: In economics, we use the term utility. It gives some

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Speaker 4: people utility to do this or that. Doesn't mean they're

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Speaker 4: smiling necessarily. If you hate pedophiles and you get to

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Speaker 4: be the executioner of pedophiles, it doesn't make you happy

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Speaker 4: to be the executioner, but it gives you utility. And

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Speaker 4: Rick Warren in twenty twelve, I think it was wrote

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Speaker 4: The Purpose Driven Life, which I actually think it was

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Speaker 4: an important book at the time, the idea of finding

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Speaker 4: purpose in your life and what you do, living purposefully, intentionally,

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Speaker 4: knowing why you're here and what you're doing. And I've

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Speaker 4: come to learn that this is why some people, I'm

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Speaker 4: going to use that term, are very happy doing a

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Speaker 4: job when they don't need to work anymore. You know,

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Speaker 4: the Walmart reader kind of went away. I loved the

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Speaker 4: Walmart reader. I loved the Walmart reader because so many

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Speaker 4: of the Walmart readers didn't need to work. They didn't

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Speaker 4: turn the money down because that's what they used to

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Speaker 4: buy a cup of coffee while they were there. They

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Speaker 4: arrived early, they stayed late, they stayed afterwards. They took

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Speaker 4: their penny off and hung around, or kept their penny on.

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Speaker 4: They loved to greet people. What a brilliant idea. You

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Speaker 4: take this cold, goleless warehouse, full of junk that people

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Speaker 4: are coming into to grab, most of which they could

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Speaker 4: do without, and you put a human face on it,

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Speaker 4: A real human face, Not a kid on a phone,

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Speaker 4: not somebody disinterested, not somebody checking sports scores or texting

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Speaker 4: their buddies or taking Peter picks, A real human being

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Speaker 4: in comfortable shoes, welcoming people into your cold, soulless warehouse.

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Speaker 4: It was a brilliant a strike, a stroke of brilliance.

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Speaker 2: It was a brilliant move. I love everything about it.

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Speaker 4: But what it spoke to in me, which I didn't

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Speaker 4: understand too many years later, was the idea of having purpose.

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Speaker 4: I have known so many people over the years who

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Speaker 4: cannot wait to retire, and the moment they retire, they

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Speaker 4: have the world out of tail and within a couple

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Speaker 4: of days they realize they've lost their purpose. Even if

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Speaker 4: work was not their purpose. Because they're pulling a paycheck,

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Speaker 4: punch and a clock. They they they've lost their routine,

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Speaker 4: and in that routine was comfort. You may not like

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Speaker 4: your job per se, the actual job, but we put

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Speaker 4: some we put some dressing on it.

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Speaker 2: Right. We put a writ on the way to your job,

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Speaker 2: you may stop and get a kalachi. And you really

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Speaker 2: like talking to the people there at lunch. You might

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Speaker 2: enjoy walking across the street. We talk on the way home.

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Speaker 2: You might.

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Speaker 5: Come on.

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Speaker 4: Harris was just officially endorsed by IRS Agency.

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Speaker 2: Believe the Michael Berry Show. I'd rather not have that endorsement.

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Speaker 4: Well, here's what happened with Obamacare, and this was by design.

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Speaker 4: When you worked for a company, we'll use round numbers.

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Speaker 4: When you work for a.

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Speaker 2: Company, Let's say you made fifty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 4: And for those of you in the business, I don't

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Speaker 4: know the actual numbers, so I understand I'm going to

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Speaker 4: get the number wrong, but just just follow along, and

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Speaker 4: where I put in numbers, put an extra or y

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Speaker 4: because I don't have the experience in it that you do.

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Speaker 4: Because a lot of people do work in the finance

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Speaker 4: side of healthcare. Unfortunately, that's that's how you know how

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Speaker 4: inefficient this process is. Very little of healthcare in America

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Speaker 4: today is a doctor looking at a problem and working

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Speaker 4: to solve it. That's just that's a tiny little portion

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Speaker 4: of what we would generally call healthcare. Most of the

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Speaker 4: industry and people that work in it are selling you

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Speaker 4: on you, sending checks every month for something they hope

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Speaker 4: you won't use, and if they have the opportunity, they

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Speaker 4: won't pay for. Then you setting up occasionally when after

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Speaker 4: all of this, because you planned ahead, you set up

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Speaker 4: an appointment to go to the doctor, and then you

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Speaker 4: get to the doctor and the people who are there

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Speaker 4: who do not want you there. By the time you

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Speaker 4: get in to see the doctor, for a few seconds,

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Speaker 4: think about all the people who have touched your account.

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Speaker 4: Everyone's getting paid. None of them is helping to heal you.

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Speaker 4: Now you get back there to the doctor, he's bedraggled.

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Speaker 4: He's worst slap out because the practice changed.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't own his practice anymore.

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Speaker 4: This is why Mary taly Boden can walk in with

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Speaker 4: a smile because she owns her practice independently. That poor

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Speaker 4: guy you're seeing, he's most likely from India, but he

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Speaker 4: could be from another country. Very little chance, especially if

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Speaker 4: he's under forty, very little chance that he's an American born,

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Speaker 4: and even then he's from Indian heritage because his parents

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Speaker 4: are Indian.

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Speaker 2: Nothing wrong with that.

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Speaker 4: A lot of my doctors are Indians, a lot of

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Speaker 4: my family are Indian doctors.

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Speaker 2: I'm good with it.

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Speaker 4: But that is the reality, and that's a whole separate

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Speaker 4: conversation as to why this happened. I'm not mad at

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Speaker 4: Indians for owning all the convenience stores or the motels.

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Speaker 4: They didn't steal them. They're not the cartels. Nobody else

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Speaker 4: wanted that. It's a horrible thing to do. It's an

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Speaker 4: entrepreneurial thing to do. It's hard work. That's why the

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Speaker 4: whole family lives there. But anyway, by the time you

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Speaker 4: get to the doctor, because remember I don't know if

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Speaker 4: you remember a while I as have you had something

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Speaker 4: wrong with you. Let's say you had a real bad cold,

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Speaker 4: and like me, about every two or three years, you

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Speaker 4: mess around and let that cold develop into bronchitis and

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Speaker 4: then it knocks.

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Speaker 2: You out for a while.

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Speaker 4: So all you really need, because you already know what

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Speaker 4: drug you need because you're fifty three years old at

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Speaker 4: this point, all you really need is for him to

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Speaker 4: write the prescription to give you the drug, because we've

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Speaker 4: created a situation where you can't go and get that

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Speaker 4: drug yourself. And many of you don't understand that in

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Speaker 4: some nations you could, and that as an adult, you

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Speaker 4: ought to.

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Speaker 2: Be able to No, Michael, somebody will abuse it.

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Speaker 4: What like alcohol that's on every street corner? What do

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Speaker 4: you need a doctor to give you alcohol? How about food?

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Speaker 4: You fat ass? Do you know how many people abuse food?

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Speaker 4: Do you know as a number one killer? Do you

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Speaker 4: have any clue how much abuse of food there is?

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Speaker 4: Why don't we regulate that more? We are headed there

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Speaker 4: by the way we are headed there because the nanny

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Speaker 4: state and innies believe if something bad happens, if somebody

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Speaker 4: makes bad decisions, then what we need to do is

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Speaker 4: the government needs to make that illegal or give somebody

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Speaker 4: power over you.

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Speaker 2: As an adult.

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Speaker 4: You cannot make a decision what you eat and when

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Speaker 4: you eat because look at you, you're so fat. Why

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Speaker 4: would you want to take away my ability to decide

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Speaker 4: when I eat.

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Speaker 2: And what I eat?

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Speaker 4: Well, because you're fat and you're costing a lot more

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Speaker 4: than the study says. And they'll make this available to you,

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Speaker 4: and people will quote it. Study says that a fat

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Speaker 4: person costs four times as much as a skiddy person

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Speaker 4: for healthcare.

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Speaker 2: And I have to.

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Speaker 4: Pay for your healthcare, and I don't think it's right

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Speaker 4: because you eat too much, and I think that the

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Speaker 4: government ought to ration in your food.

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Speaker 2: We're headed there. I hope you will understand that this

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Speaker 2: is not a scare at tactic. That is where we

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Speaker 2: are headed.

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Speaker 4: So now you've got a situation where by the time

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Speaker 4: you get to the doctor to get what you need,

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Speaker 4: all these other people have needed to be paid.

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Speaker 2: The doctor is only a tiny portion.

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Speaker 4: And by the way, nine times out of ten, especially

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Speaker 4: if it's a general practitioner, you didn't actually need to

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Speaker 4: see the doctor. You could have seen a nurse practitioner.

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Speaker 4: I'm not for socialized medicine, but there are are very

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Speaker 4: very simple things you could do, very simple things you

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Speaker 4: could do to reduce the cost of health care in

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Speaker 4: this country. In one of them is stop clogging everything

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Speaker 4: up with a doctor. We have this doctor worship in

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Speaker 4: this country that is so silly. There are many, many,

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Speaker 4: many Americans who are capable of assisting in your healing

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Speaker 4: and wellness who do not have an MD. What we

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Speaker 4: ought to do is save doctors for issues where a

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Speaker 4: doctor's experience and care is necessary, and stop having doctors

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Speaker 4: be the frontline of every single issue and requiring you

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Speaker 4: to need to see the doctor for everything. In most cases,

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Speaker 4: a nurse practitioner can do just as well, and truthfully,

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Speaker 4: most nurse practitioners have more experience with your particular issue

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Speaker 4: than the doctor does because they're doing all the work.

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Speaker 4: This is also true, by the way, with dental hygienis.

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Speaker 4: I don't think there's a gradation in dental hygienis. I

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Speaker 4: don't think you go from you know, dental hygieneus to

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Speaker 4: master plumber dental hygienist to you know talk you know.

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Speaker 4: I don't think you start his journey you ought to,

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Speaker 4: because I don't know if you've noticed when the dentist

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Speaker 4: comes swaggering.

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Speaker 2: In and oh, Dennis is here. Well, else, how are

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Speaker 2: you doing? Let me take a look at this, susie.

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Speaker 2: What do we have?

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Speaker 4: Well, on the A three he hadn't rushed it in

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Speaker 4: eight years, and on the C four he's got a

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Speaker 4: cat yep ship. You're right, Susie, you're cute. Sweat on

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Speaker 4: the ass, Sign him up, pay the bill, I we'll

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Speaker 4: see you back next time. Susie's gonna take care of

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Speaker 4: you and we'll give you a toothbrush to boot. Who

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Speaker 4: do you think delivered all the care the hygienist and

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Speaker 4: in the process she knows as much as he does. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: well that's true in medicine too, all right, So back

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Speaker 4: to the point. Here's how here's how it got all

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Speaker 4: caddy whimpers. Democrats didn't want you to have a health

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Speaker 4: care plan that your company paid for, company was invested in,

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Speaker 4: because they wounded you healthy, so they took.

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Speaker 2: Care of you and your dependence.

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Speaker 4: Obamacare's goal was to break that relationship, and they did.

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Speaker 2: And how'd they do it.

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Speaker 4: They convinced the idiots who needed health care most that

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Speaker 4: they were going to get free healthcare.

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Speaker 2: This is the Michael. It was their undoing and what's happening.

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Speaker 5: The stock market crish occurred in nineteenth October nineteen twenty nine.

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Speaker 5: Two months later, unemployment peaked at nine percent, and then

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Speaker 5: it started declining and by June of nineteen thirty it

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Speaker 5: was down to six point three percent. That was when

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Speaker 5: the first government intervention took place, and within six months

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Speaker 5: it was in double digits and it stayed in double

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Speaker 5: digits for the entire decade of the nineteen thirty.

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Speaker 4: Many of you will remember during the dark days of

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Speaker 4: the authoritarian Covidians that America shut down for all intents

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Speaker 4: and purposes. One of the great losses was live theater, Broadway, concerts,

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Speaker 4: the restaurants. Seen so many weddings, funerals, the things that

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Speaker 4: mark our lives, the things that make life worth living, gatherings, fellowship.

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Speaker 2: And we had a.

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Speaker 4: Gentleman on the air, and many of you commented that

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Speaker 4: you were worried for him, you felt bad for him,

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Speaker 4: named Clifton Duncan. And he is an accomplished actor, an

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Speaker 4: actor of the stage, a purist in that sense, with

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Speaker 4: a lot of credits to his name. And yet he

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Speaker 4: wouldn't play the game, and he lost not just his job,

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Speaker 4: but in a sense I felt, maybe part of his identity.

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Speaker 4: So he went back home where he had not been

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Speaker 4: for quite some time. And this is an adult man.

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Speaker 4: I don't know how he was a time, maybe thirty.

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Speaker 4: And he went back home and lived with his parents

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Speaker 4: and started waiting tables, and people would say, you know,

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Speaker 4: you seem it seemed kind of beneath you. And he

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Speaker 4: would say well, I'm actually a stage actor, and he

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Speaker 4: didn't believe him because there's no chances it's happening. But

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Speaker 4: this is happening. This was really happening. Well a lot

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Speaker 4: has happened since then. Rather than go hide himself in

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Speaker 4: a bottle, or in pills or in sadness, Clifton Duncan decided,

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Speaker 4: you know what, I'm going to make something of this moment,

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Speaker 4: and he he rebuilt himself and we are honored to

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Speaker 4: have him back. As you can probably tell, I'm a

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Speaker 4: huge fan. Clifton Duncan. Welcome to the program.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Michael, get to speak to you again. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for that great introduction.

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Speaker 4: What caught my attention and I asked our team to

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Speaker 4: track you down, was a post you put up on

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Speaker 4: February twelfth that said Thomas Soul was born during the

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Speaker 4: dark days of Jim Broh and went on to become

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Speaker 4: one of America's foremost thinkers. His uncompromising and countercultural views

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Speaker 4: have left him marginalized in the popular Zeit guests, let's

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Speaker 4: change that, and then.

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Speaker 2: You talk about your project. Tell us about that.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's actually been on my mind for several years,

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Speaker 1: and so a lot of people don't know about me

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Speaker 1: is that in my last year of conservatory, we had

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Speaker 1: a program called free Play, And I guess the best

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Speaker 1: equivalent you can think of is, you know, maybe a

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Speaker 1: dissertation for you know, a graduate program or something. But

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Speaker 1: it's an assignment, I guess you can call it. Where

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Speaker 1: these students could create anything that they wanted. And I

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Speaker 1: created this one man show called The Universe Project, which

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Speaker 1: was very autobiographical and very hip hop based, and I

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Speaker 1: played a lot of different characters and it actually got

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Speaker 1: me my first agent before, you know, months before I

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Speaker 1: got out of the program, and I was able to

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Speaker 1: do the show off Broadway and at the theaters, and

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Speaker 1: for years now people have been asking me, a man,

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Speaker 1: that show is so great when you're going.

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Speaker 2: To make another one?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, well, I don't have anything to

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Speaker 1: say first, or I don't have anything to say.

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Speaker 2: And then, you know.

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Speaker 1: As I say in my campaign video back in nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy seven, or I discovered back in nineteen seventy seven,

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Speaker 1: James Earl Jones did a play called Robison about Paul Robison.

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Speaker 1: In twenty eleven, Lawrence Fishburne did the play called Third Good,

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Speaker 1: which is about third Good Marshal. You can actually still

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Speaker 1: watch it on Amazon Prime today. And in twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 1: a great great actor named John Douglis Thompson did a

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Speaker 1: play called Satchmo at the Waldorf off Broadway, which is

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Speaker 1: a play about Louis Armstrong. And so I said to myself,

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Speaker 1: what would make an interesting subject for a one man

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Speaker 1: show that I could create myself? And the obvious answer

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Speaker 1: to me came up was Thomas Sole. And he is

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Speaker 1: someone who has had a huge impact on my life,

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Speaker 1: on many lives obviously, and he's enjoying a nice kind

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Speaker 1: of renaissance in terms of you know, people who are

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Speaker 1: really into his work and discovering his work. But I

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Speaker 1: said to myself, you know this, it will be a

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Speaker 1: really really interesting project to bring the story of soul

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Speaker 1: or aspect of his life, you know, just just something

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Speaker 1: to the stage in the vein of uh these other

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Speaker 1: great these other great figures from the twentieth century. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I've already done the show before, so like,

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Speaker 1: what else could I bring to this particular project? And

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Speaker 1: you know, people are very very very enthusiastic about it.

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Speaker 4: Which is nice well, and and much like Clint Eastwood

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Speaker 4: did you're taking control of your own career because sadly,

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Speaker 4: because performance is your art, you typically have to work

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Speaker 4: for someone else. And maybe the only way to get

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Speaker 4: to do what you want to do is to control

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Speaker 4: will control of the product yourself. And you know, I

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Speaker 4: guess you're going to have to write this stuff yourself if.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be made.

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Speaker 4: And you know, you hear that about some actors that

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Speaker 4: they couldn't get Sylvester Stallone couldn't get roles, so he

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Speaker 4: had to write the roles so that he would get

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Speaker 4: to act. He didn't want to write roles. He wanted

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Speaker 4: to act, you know. Clifton Duncan is our guest. It's

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Speaker 4: an interesting time, Clifton, because I don't know that this

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Speaker 4: has ever been the case before. But in my estimation,

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Speaker 4: the two greatest thinkers in America today, Clarence Thomas and

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Speaker 4: Thomas soul happened to be black men, which what are

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Speaker 4: the odds thirteen percent of the population, and both of

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Speaker 4: them come from that population. But both of them also

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Speaker 4: come from a generation and a time, and a struggle

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Speaker 4: and an experience and a perspective. And I wonder how

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Speaker 4: much I wonder if there will be another generation like that.

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Speaker 4: I wonder if a young black man today is often

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Speaker 4: poisoned with these with I can't do that. I'm a

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Speaker 4: victim mentality. What about soul attracted you to telling his story?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think the biggest thing for me, or one

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Speaker 1: of the big things that turned me on to him originally,

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Speaker 1: was the fact that he changed his mind. I mean

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Speaker 1: I stumbled upon a video of him, a clip of

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Speaker 1: him on the Bill Buckley Show from I guess it

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Speaker 1: was maybe the late sixties, early seventies, and he just

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Speaker 1: clinically took apart these these arguments that you that you

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Speaker 1: hear oftentimes from I guess you could say left wing

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Speaker 1: intellectuals pun that's you know, what have you? And I

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Speaker 1: was like, who is this dude in this you know,

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Speaker 1: with this the best afro ever in these glasses, just

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Speaker 1: just clinically and even and witty, witchly taking down these arguments.

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Speaker 2: But then I.

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Speaker 1: Learned more about him, and it's the fact that he

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Speaker 1: grew up and had one mindset, and even after studying

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Speaker 1: with someone like Milton Friedman, maintained that mindset, but then

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Speaker 1: still had the integrity and the intelligence to be able

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Speaker 1: to say, well, wait a minute, there's something else going

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Speaker 1: on here when confronted with evidence that contradicted his his

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Speaker 1: former worldview. So I think that was the big thing

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Speaker 1: for me because it reflected when I discovered him, probably

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Speaker 1: about ten years ago. It reflected my own journey from

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Speaker 1: being kind of a default leftist to taking a more

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Speaker 1: maybe independent, centralized view of things. And so I think

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Speaker 1: that was the big thing for me.

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Speaker 4: Clifton Duncan, great actor, now doing a Thomas Soul one

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Speaker 4: man show.

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Speaker 2: Our guests. We'll talk more to him, Michael Show. And

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Speaker 2: this isn't my damn couginy I'll thought for this couture.

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Speaker 2: This is mine. Clifton Duncan is our guest.

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Speaker 4: He is doing a new one man show on the

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Speaker 4: great Thomas Soul. Why do you think obviously it's not

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Speaker 4: just a conservative, you know, sort of doctrine he espouses.

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Speaker 4: It's almost his own. It's just this soulism or soloism.

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Speaker 4: Why do you think though, that there haven't been more

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Speaker 4: people We interviewed as a young guy who wrote a

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Speaker 4: book about him a few years ago, and he was

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Speaker 4: just a super fan and he and I just for

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Speaker 4: probably two hours, just talked about our love of soul

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Speaker 4: and things that he's said and his experience. But why

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Speaker 4: do you think that more people haven't, if not, done,

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Speaker 4: what you've done, Because that's kind of a niche thing.

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Speaker 4: It's a hard thing to do. Why has it been

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Speaker 4: more written about him? Why has he not talked about more?

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Speaker 1: Well, it goes back to what you were saying previously

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Speaker 1: in your previous question about the kind of mindset that

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Speaker 1: is prevalent in much of Black America. And part of

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Speaker 1: the issue is the education system, the public education system.

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Speaker 1: Another issue is the I guess, the mass media complex,

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Speaker 1: entertainment complex, the comedians that we watch, the sitcoms that

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Speaker 1: we grew up watching, the music that we love, and

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Speaker 1: then the suppress as well, in addition to the algorithmic

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Speaker 1: manipulations of these big tech companies. So all that combined

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Speaker 1: together leads to this sort of gatekeeping of information about people.

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Speaker 1: And the thing about Soul and men like him, people

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Speaker 1: like him, is that he completely contradicts and goes against

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Speaker 1: this prevalent worldview or vision as he calls them, and

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Speaker 1: so the they either be rate him or dismiss him,

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Speaker 1: or that they have to ignore him because the things

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Speaker 1: that he's saying completely clash with the you know, to

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Speaker 1: use his term the vision of the anointed, or the

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Speaker 1: unconstrained vision, or the left wing vision of Black America,

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Speaker 1: black history, of these kinds of things. And so he

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Speaker 1: must be denigrated, he must be dismissed, he must be

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Speaker 1: destroyed reputationally. And you know, it's really a shame because

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Speaker 1: you know, there is a there's.

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Speaker 2: A great, a great variety of.

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Speaker 1: Intellectualism and thinking in Black America, but the the it's

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Speaker 1: far far easier to access people like you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying he's a great thinker, but kind of easy

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Speaker 1: coats or or an ebra mix kindy or a Nicole

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Speaker 1: Hannah Jones, people who I you know, I think have

427
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: no respect for personally, but you know, they just have

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Speaker 1: way way bigger platforms, partly because of their ideology, and

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Speaker 1: and Soul has been kind of marginalized because of his

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Speaker 1: views which get coded as coded as more conservative or

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Speaker 1: or right right wing, even though I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of Black Americans really agree with much of what they're saying.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's a great sort of series of videos

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Speaker 1: you can find on YouTube of young people, young Black

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Speaker 1: people who are watching him for the first time, and

436
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 1: they're reacting and they're saying, wait a minute, this dude

437
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: is making sense.

438
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,719
Speaker 2: How Come I never heard of him before?

439
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: Right? So it's really interesting, it's really it's really fascinating,

440
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: and he's and he's kind of enjoying a renaissance among

441
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: younger people. But you know, the short answer to your

442
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 1: question is just that, you know, there's just a the

443
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: the the sources of ideas and information that that we consume,

444
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: and I mean we generally, not just Black Americans. They

445
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: just don't want to acknowledge Thomas Soul because every his work,

446
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 1: his body of work, really takes down everything that they

447
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,239
Speaker 1: stand for. So it's not least prising that they just

448
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 1: sort of ignore him.

449
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 4: So he has a big body of work, and I've

450
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 4: spent a creepy level of time studying his life and

451
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 4: his writings and his influences and and his interviews. He

452
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 4: does a deal with the Hoover Institute, with with whom

453
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 4: he's he's associated, and speeches that he's given over the years,

454
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 4: and he's really retreated, you know, from most of public life,

455
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 4: which I find unfortunate.

456
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 2: I have begged for an interview.

457
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 4: And I can't get one, But but I talk about

458
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 4: him a lot. I quote him a lot. We play

459
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 4: things that he says a lot on the show. When

460
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 4: you begin a project like this, this this is, and

461
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 4: I guess you could have you could say that that

462
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 4: they had to do this with with the Robison project

463
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 4: that James Earl Jones did, or Thurgood that Fishburne did,

464
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 4: or Satchmo. How do you begin a research project like

465
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 4: this because you're an actor, you're not a researcher what

466
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 4: you are now, but how do you begin that?

467
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: Well, you know, it's funny because I say, there's there's

468
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: really no excuse for a dumb actor, which might surprise

469
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 1: a lot of people, because part of the job is

470
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: learning how to research. Part of the job, you get

471
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,639
Speaker 1: a new role and you just read and read and

472
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: absorb all the information that you can about this particular person.

473
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 1: The great thing about Soul is that, like you said,

474
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: he has this huge, huge body of work, forty five books,

475
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: thousands of columns, hundreds of hours of interviews and podcasts

476
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 1: and lectures and speeches and things online, you know.

477
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 2: The audio.

478
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: But like, there's so many ways to absorb his information.

479
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: But for me right now, I'm just starting at just

480
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: square one. Like one of the things that one of

481
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: the things that you do as an actor initially is

482
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: when you're confronted with a new character, you say, well,

483
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: what does the author say about this character, What does

484
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: the characters say about themselves? What do other people say

485
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: about the characters? So I actually just ordered Soul's book,

486
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: A Personal Odyssey, and just a couple of hours ago,

487
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: I was slipping through just you know, to a random

488
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: page that this is just gold. It's gold because we

489
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: think of Soul as this intellectual dynamo. But you know,

490
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: people aren't going to really want to sit through a

491
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: play of just a bunch of intellectualism, you know what

492
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: I mean.

493
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 2: So they need to see what the.

494
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 1: Underbelly, the emotional underbelly of the person is and can

495
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 1: you really dive into the subconscious of the character, subconscious

496
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: of the character. And so I kind of have to

497
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 1: take a detached look at Soul, despite all my respect

498
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: and admiration for him, and look at his life in

499
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: his own words, and look at what others say about

500
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: him and how they perceive him. And it's really just

501
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: a I had a teacher who once said that information

502
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: is inspiration, And so what you do is you fill

503
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 1: yourself up with all these sort of details about him

504
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: and his life, and you know, maybe his attitudes and

505
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: points of views, and you begin to form your interpretation

506
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: of this particular person that's on.

507
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 2: The page, and then you bring him to life.

508
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: But you know, it's also unique because then I have

509
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: his interviews to listen to as well, so I can

510
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,600
Speaker 1: I can really immerse myself in his mannerisms and who

511
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: you know, how he behaves, how he conducts himself, what

512
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 1: he does when he gets emotional, as well as add

513
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: to the information stockpile of here's here's his life, and

514
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: here's what he has to say about his life, and

515
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: then again his views and his his points of view

516
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: on a variety of topics, you know, in forty five

517
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 1: books and again thousands and thousands of columns. So it's

518
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: really in a really privileged place because his work it's

519
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: so prolific.

520
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 2: It's it can be kind of daunting in terms of

521
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 2: the sheer volume.

522
00:30:58,080 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: But that's what you do at the at the very

523
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: beginning of a role is just your research around it.

524
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 1: You know, who is this person, what do they want?

525
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: Why do they want what they want? What's in their way?

526
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: What do they what do they do in order to

527
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: get what they want, and those are sort of the

528
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: basic fundamental questions that you asked about any character, and

529
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: so that's what I'm asking about. Soho now

530
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 5: M