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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly john Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and speaker Mike Johnson will blur the

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Speaker 1: faces of the January sixth rioters before releasing the footage

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Speaker 1: the Party of Law and Order. Ladies and gentlemen, we

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Speaker 1: have such a great show today. Congressman Rocanna goes over

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Speaker 1: the landscape now that the Republican majority is one George

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Speaker 1: Santos slimmer. Then we will talk to Mark Ciusano about

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Speaker 1: his new book, The Fabulous, The Lying, hustling, grifting, stealing

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Speaker 1: and very American legend of George Santos. But first we

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Speaker 1: have the Mary Trump Shows, the One, the Only Mary Trump.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Fast Politics. Mary Trump.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Molly, it is great to be here. I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to ask you how you are.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about you before we did this interview,

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Speaker 1: and I was thinking, I'm going to tell her that

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Speaker 1: I love her even if her uncle destroys democracy.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean this is the most American story ever, right,

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Speaker 1: like reality television host is underestimated, becomes president, is able

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Speaker 1: to fuck everything up, loses presidency, and now is the

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Speaker 1: Republican front Runner again.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's a deeply modern American story. It would rise

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Speaker 2: to the level of Greek tragedy if it weren't for

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Speaker 2: the obscene absurdity of it all.

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Speaker 1: I feel like because we've been living in it for

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Speaker 1: the last decade, by the way, decade, because we're at

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, so we're like two years away from

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Speaker 1: a decade of our lives being spent on this nonsense.

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Speaker 1: But because we've been in it for so long, I

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Speaker 1: think sometimes we forget the absurdity of it. And the

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Speaker 1: truth is, it's like we got here because it was

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Speaker 1: so absurd that people could not take it.

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Speaker 2: Yerious slagh. Yeah, it's a stealth weapon in a way.

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Speaker 2: I remember that well in twenty fifteen, in early twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 2: when I was still talking to my aunt, and part

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Speaker 2: of it was because we knew him so well, and

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Speaker 2: part of it was because we'd been in New York forever.

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Speaker 2: We just thought, this guy's such a clown. There's no

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Speaker 2: way this plays anywhere. But of course, I think neither

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Speaker 2: one of us had watched The Apprentice either, so we

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Speaker 2: didn't quite have our figures on the police of what

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Speaker 2: was happening in the rest of the country. But I

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Speaker 2: think we've gotten to a point where we're almost full circle.

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Speaker 2: We need to deploy that as a weapon as well.

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Speaker 2: Our strategy for the next eleven months has to be

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Speaker 2: going after the higher brow issues, you know, talking about

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Speaker 2: democracy and what it means to lose a democracy and

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Speaker 2: calling out the fascism, but we also have to hit

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Speaker 2: really hard on the other end of the spectrum to

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Speaker 2: point out just how absurd and ridiculous he is, and

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Speaker 2: that not that that doesn't make him dangerous, but that

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Speaker 2: to cast a vote for him would be an act

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Speaker 2: of just shame, and we need to mock him because

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Speaker 2: that is something that he can't handle. And I think honestly,

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Speaker 2: for Donald as an individual person, it's not about battling

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Speaker 2: with him on policy. It's about reminding him every second

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Speaker 2: of every day what a fucking loser he is.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I would say the reason you do that, I

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Speaker 1: mean it's because it's destabilizing to Trump, and Trump needs

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Speaker 1: to be destabilized in order to be defeated. Was something

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Speaker 1: that de Santis could not do.

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Speaker 2: Continue sorry, exactly, desanctimonious could not do the same thing

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Speaker 2: because apparently nobody allegedly running for the Republican nomination wants

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Speaker 2: anybody other than Donald to be the nominee. He lacks

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Speaker 2: de talent, continue the talent and the charisma or whatever.

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Speaker 4: But listen, Molly, I have to be honest.

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Speaker 2: I am so sick of having to fight in that

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Speaker 2: particular trench. You know, sometimes I feel like this is

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Speaker 2: really not how I want to be spending my time,

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Speaker 2: not how I want to be spending my time.

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Speaker 1: It's not how any of us too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, But we do need to realize that it's

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Speaker 2: a weapon. It's not sinking to his level, it's using

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Speaker 2: his own weapons against him, because otherwise exactly has happened

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Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen, the field is clear for him to

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Speaker 2: reduce everybody else to becoming the kinds of people we're

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Speaker 2: seeing in the Republican nominating contest right now, who just

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Speaker 2: cannot figure out a way to surpass him because they

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Speaker 2: are not doing the one thing that needs to be done.

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Speaker 2: And hopefully the Democrats won't have such compunction.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, what I think is amazing about their

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Speaker 1: problem when it comes to Trump is that Republicans are

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Speaker 1: completely unable to stand up to him, maybe because they're

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Speaker 1: afraid of death threats, maybe because they're cowards, maybe because

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Speaker 1: they just want to keep power. And somehow that dynamic

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Speaker 1: has continued despite the fact that he had like you know,

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Speaker 1: like I think so much about that. You know, all

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Speaker 1: the times when Republicans are like, well, we're just not

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Speaker 1: going to stand up to him now, they never found

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Speaker 1: a good moment to grow a spine, and so they

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Speaker 1: never did no.

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Speaker 2: And then they sort of realized that they didn't have to.

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Speaker 2: It's easier to go along to get along, or whatever

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Speaker 2: that expression is that I haven't said since eighteen thirty two.

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Speaker 2: It's about positioning for the future. But I think in

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Speaker 2: the shorter, more dangerous term, it's their recognition, their sort

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Speaker 2: of lizard brain reptilian recognition, that he is the best

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Speaker 2: instrument for them to regain and maintain illegitimate power in perpetuity.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, think about that for a minute. So basically it's

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Speaker 1: the end of democracy, but Republicans don't mind because their

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Speaker 1: sign wan.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it'll be if the worst case scenario happens

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Speaker 2: that Donald cheats, lies and steals his way into the

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Speaker 2: White House, because let's be clear, he kind of win legitimately.

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Speaker 1: Which is why he says democrats can't win legitimately exactly exactly, which.

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Speaker 2: Is why the Republicans are impeaching Biden. So you know,

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Speaker 2: they're trying to take our weapons away by deploying them

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Speaker 2: against us and making them irrelevant.

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Speaker 4: So if he gets.

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Speaker 2: In in twenty twenty eight, he'll just pick a successor.

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Speaker 1: Right, You think he'll pick a successor.

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Speaker 4: It depends on what kind of shape he's in.

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Speaker 2: But either he will or somebody else will, right, or

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Speaker 2: he'll just keep going until you know, his mummified corpse

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Speaker 2: will be president.

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Speaker 1: We have great rentals, but Don Junior will never be president.

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Speaker 4: No, does that disappointment?

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Speaker 5: No.

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Speaker 1: The one thing that I'm not surprised by is that

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Speaker 1: I pride myself on my front relationship with my parents.

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Speaker 1: But what's happening over there is pretty incredible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It's textbook family dysfunction on an exponential level. You know,

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Speaker 2: It's it's sort of the platonic ideal of family dysfunction.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sort of spectacular stuff. So Trump really still

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Speaker 1: has ninety one federal indictments, right, So while he is

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Speaker 1: the Republican front runner, he's also in quite a bit

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Speaker 1: of trouble if this works out, If this new York

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Speaker 1: case happens the way it's meant to happen. And again,

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Speaker 1: I still think there could be he could get a

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Speaker 1: hail Mary from a higher court. But if it does,

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Speaker 1: he will lose that business, your family business, the one

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Speaker 1: that he stole from your relatives. Talk to me about

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Speaker 1: what you think the psychological implication of.

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Speaker 2: That is, we cannot overestimate the importance of this case

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Speaker 2: to him. The other cases bolster his credibility among his base.

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Speaker 4: Being a criminal.

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Speaker 2: Who's willing to steal classified documents because he has all

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Speaker 2: the power, etc.

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Speaker 6: Etc.

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Speaker 4: Order to incite an insurrection, what have you.

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Speaker 2: This gets to the very heart of who he thinks

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Speaker 2: he is, which he also knows on some very deep level,

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Speaker 2: is a myth.

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Speaker 4: It's a myth that.

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Speaker 2: Was created by my grandfather to serve my grandfather's own ends.

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Speaker 2: It was a myth that was perpetuated by the New

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Speaker 2: York media in the late seventies and eighties, and then

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Speaker 2: the banks, and then Mark Burnett and then the Republican Party.

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Speaker 2: The longer the myth has been allowed to stand unchallenged,

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Speaker 2: and the stronger it's gotten. I mean, actually, I cannot

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Speaker 2: tell you how much I hate saying this. He's an

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Speaker 2: extraordinarily powerful person and at one time he was the

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Speaker 2: most powerful person on the planet, which this country will

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Speaker 2: never recover from that egregiousness. But the point being, he

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Speaker 2: has so much more to lose, and all of that,

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Speaker 2: or at the center of all of that, I should say,

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Speaker 2: is his almost unshakable belief that he is this brilliant

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Speaker 2: businessman who's self made. And the cracks have been showing.

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Speaker 2: But that's why he's been in the courtroom, like he

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Speaker 2: hasn't been in any other courtroom unless he's been ordered

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Speaker 2: to be. As far as I know, he voluntarily went there.

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Speaker 2: I could think of a billion other things I'd rather

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Speaker 2: do than send a court room for no reason all

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Speaker 2: day long. But part of that was to feel like

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Speaker 2: he had some kind of control over the situation, which

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Speaker 2: obviously he didn't. But part of it was to send

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Speaker 2: a signal about how important this is. This will destroy

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Speaker 2: to the extent that it's possible, because he's so defended

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Speaker 2: everything he's ever believed about himself or wanted everybody else.

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Speaker 6: To believe about it him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a really good point. The punishment

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Speaker 1: for it is humongous, Like he will lose the business.

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Speaker 1: He will be forced to sell the assets, The entire

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Speaker 1: myths of Trump will go, All of the things that

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Speaker 1: he considers himself will be stripped away.

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Speaker 2: I'm not familiar enough with how this kind of civil

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Speaker 2: trial works to know how.

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Speaker 4: It's going to play out.

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Speaker 2: If the ruling is as it should be and he

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Speaker 2: gets fined appropriately and everything remains in receivership, it will

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Speaker 2: be appealed immediately.

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Speaker 4: I don't know what that means. I don't know if

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Speaker 4: they can immediately take the.

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Speaker 2: Name off of Trump Tower and start selling stuff, or

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Speaker 2: if everything is just put on hold as the appeals

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Speaker 2: wind their way through the higher courts. But I'm pretty

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Speaker 2: sure it means that he has no access and gets

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Speaker 2: no benefits.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think there's a sort of self destructive

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Speaker 1: aspect to him? I'm thinking about we're watching him. Obviously

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Speaker 1: there is a self destructive aspect him, But like you know,

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Speaker 1: he went after Obamacare the other day, which is like

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Speaker 1: such a loser for him, and I just wondered if, like,

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Speaker 1: perhaps his self destructive aspect is getting a little bit worse.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for a long time now, there's there has been

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Speaker 2: that drive towards self destructive behavior again, because he's just

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Speaker 2: this terrified little boy who is in way over his

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Speaker 2: head and knows it. The irony, I suppose, is that

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Speaker 2: other people keep trying to protect him from himself, not

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Speaker 2: because they give a shit about him, because they need him.

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Speaker 2: One of the great conundrums in mordern American politics is

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Speaker 2: that Donald who is incompetent and capable, unfit and all

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Speaker 2: those other adjectives, has always been useful to smarter, more

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Speaker 2: powerful men.

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Speaker 4: So he remains useful to.

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Speaker 2: Smarter and more powerful man exactly. And they don't want

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Speaker 2: him falling apart. But he's really giving them a run

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Speaker 2: for their money, because, let's face it, it's not just Obamacare,

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Speaker 2: it's also what he's doing in terms of his position

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Speaker 2: on abortion and I well, those might be the only

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Speaker 2: two policy but the way he keeps miss speaking, which

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Speaker 2: you could also say or Freudian slips, like he said

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Speaker 2: that the Republican Party is out to destroy American democracy,

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Speaker 2: right yeah, and he you know, he keeps doing things

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Speaker 2: like this.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Luckily for those smart and more powerful people, the base

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Speaker 2: doesn't care.

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Speaker 4: The base will.

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Speaker 2: Laugh and cheer if he's calling for the execution of

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Speaker 2: a general who's done nothing but serve his country admirably.

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Speaker 1: For Dick, I mean, that stuff is amazing, and.

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Speaker 4: That's what we need to be paying attention to.

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Speaker 2: Let's keep going after Donald and destabilizing him before he

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Speaker 2: gets more power than he has now. But let's pay

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Speaker 2: attention to how our fellow citizens are responding to jokes

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Speaker 2: about Paul Pelosi, who are responding to calls for executions,

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Speaker 2: who were responding to his attacks on law clerks for

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Speaker 2: God's sakes.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, let's listen to them.

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Speaker 2: Let's pay attention to them, because they're the ones who

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Speaker 2: are driving all of this quite honestly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the vermin comment, let's talk about that for a minute.

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Speaker 1: We have heard him do a lot of that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing, very dark. I mean, I remember his inauguration

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Speaker 1: speech that w considered some weird shit. Do you think

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Speaker 1: your uncle is capable of genocide? I mean, because that

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Speaker 1: is genocidal language.

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Speaker 2: If nothing else, Donald Trump will do anything that needs

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Speaker 2: to be done in order to protect himself, in order

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Speaker 2: to continue to receive ill gotten gains, and in order

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Speaker 2: to remain empower period.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not what I was hoping for. This was

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Speaker 1: not the answer. Not to make light of a question

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Speaker 1: like that, but I was hoping for you know, while

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Speaker 1: I think even.

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Speaker 2: He there's no bottom, there are no limits, and the

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Speaker 2: people around him know that, and they don't care either.

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Speaker 1: I plan to not sleep tonight.

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Speaker 4: I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 1: Thank you. We have to talk about this because the

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Speaker 1: stakes are incredibly high.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and if language like that is allowed to be normalized,

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Speaker 2: which the corporate media is doing their damnedest to do,

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Speaker 2: the rest of us, if all goes badly, are going

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Speaker 2: to be at the mercy of those crowds who cheer

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Speaker 2: Donald on and laugh at his desire to see his

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Speaker 2: enemies destroyed.

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Speaker 1: Mary Trump, thank you. Congressman Rocanna represents California's seventeenth district.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back, too fast politics. Congressman Rocanna, thank you for

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Speaker 1: having me.

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Speaker 3: Great see you the other day.

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Speaker 1: Who was great seeing you the other day. So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about the House of Representatives. Republicans have a one

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Speaker 1: last seat majority that George Santos thing the House has

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Speaker 1: not expelled to member since two thousand and two with

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Speaker 1: James traffickant discuss.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's like the Republicans finally woke up

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Speaker 3: and realized how obnoxious and damaging it is to their

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Speaker 3: brand to have someone who basically used public office for

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Speaker 3: a personal profit. I mean, he was running for office

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Speaker 3: so he could make money and use people's money for

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Speaker 3: personal use. The amazing thing is it took them almost

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Speaker 3: a year to come to that recognition and to expel him,

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Speaker 3: even though it's not in their narrow interests. And the

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Speaker 3: question is, you know, how long is it going to

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Speaker 3: take them to realize all the other outlandish, terrible things

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Speaker 3: in their party and break the fever. Obviously that it

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Speaker 3: took a year just to get Santos out and it's

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Speaker 3: not and it doesn't give you much hope.

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Speaker 1: We heard Mike Johnson say vote your conscience, right. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this guy, I don't know where he's coming from. When

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Speaker 1: the vote happens, he just changes his mind. In all

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Speaker 1: of the Republican leadership vote against expelling Santos. I mean,

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Speaker 1: doesn't that completely negate any of the good optics of

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Speaker 1: getting rid of Santos?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I mean the fact that half of their party

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Speaker 3: still was split, it shows you that they're just gonna

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Speaker 3: They have such a tribal mentality their team and don't

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Speaker 3: look at any ethics on the flip side, you know,

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Speaker 3: the Democrats, you sneeze the wrong way and will be

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Speaker 3: the first puts to say, let's have an equery against you.

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Speaker 3: You know, has happened with Al Frank getting a number

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Speaker 3: of members on our side. So there's a huge double

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Speaker 3: standard in terms of ethics in this Congress and among

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Speaker 3: the parties. The reality is that some of the New

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Speaker 3: York members voted to expel them to save themselves in

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Speaker 3: their race. But certainly the Republican brand is party and

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Speaker 3: their tribe above anything else.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you did see these Republicans, these people like Mike Lawler,

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Speaker 1: and so we saw Laloda and also Milli stock Tips.

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Speaker 1: Also those are you know, Republicans from New York who

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Speaker 1: kind of won on a sort of a fluke. Now

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Speaker 1: Santos is out, he is busy on cameo, but also

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Speaker 1: trying to go after those swing district Republicans who are

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Speaker 1: desperate to keep their seats. Kind of an interesting dynamic.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you know, he's just trying to maximize

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Speaker 3: I imagine his exposure until he goes to jail. I

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Speaker 3: think anyone who's in a swing district took the right

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Speaker 3: vote by expelling him. I mean, there was a huge

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Speaker 3: report all of the enormous crimes that he had committed

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Speaker 3: and that ethics committed to a full investigation. He had

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Speaker 3: his new process, and you know, I know, we kind

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Speaker 3: of find it amusing in there. It's Santos has become

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Speaker 3: the most famous member of Congress and Late Night talks

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Speaker 3: about him, but at a fun a better level. It

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Speaker 3: should just be sad that we have so commoditized politics

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Speaker 3: that you get people like Santo's right, thinking that it's

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Speaker 3: to make money and to become famous as opposed to

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Speaker 3: serving the community.

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Speaker 1: So House Republicans have moved on from spelling Santos and

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Speaker 1: now they are ready to focus on basically what Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump wants them to do, which is impeached Joe Biden.

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Speaker 1: For vibes. Explain to me what's happening now. Do you

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Speaker 1: think they're going to have a vote? They sort of

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Speaker 1: want it to look like they have a real vote.

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Speaker 1: And also I'm shocked at how often they admit that

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Speaker 1: they are impeaching Biden to sort of Trump, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, I mean, their last impeachment hearings were hugely disappointing

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Speaker 3: for the I mean, they had Republican witnesses. I'm on

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Speaker 3: the overside committee, and they had Republican witnesses and we'd

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Speaker 3: ask them, do you think that the evidence rises to

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Speaker 3: the level of having an impeachment? And they'd say no.

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Speaker 3: And we said, do you think they should first have

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Speaker 3: a vote before they do this equery They'd say yes.

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Speaker 3: So it was a total failure. They embarrass themselves. What

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Speaker 3: the American people want is folks, folks to their pocketbook issues,

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Speaker 3: and I think the House demopment Republicans are trying their

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Speaker 3: artists to have the Republicans lose. If you're Donald Trump,

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Speaker 3: you're probably, on the one hand, these people have total

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Speaker 3: fealty to you. On the other hand, they're totally competent.

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Speaker 3: You're probably wondering if they're going to cost you the reelection.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it does seem like. I'm shocked whenever

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Speaker 1: I see Comer on television just how bad at this

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Speaker 1: he is. He almost makes Jim Jordan look like a savant.

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Speaker 3: I mean, they're just the results. They haven't been able

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Speaker 3: to do anything. And I've suggested to the Biden team

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Speaker 3: they ought to run against the do nothing Congress. Even

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Speaker 3: though I'm a part of it, I'm not in leadership

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Speaker 3: like Harry Truman did at forty eight for re election,

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Speaker 3: and Biden should just say, look, these people are crazy.

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Speaker 3: They can't get the government to function, they can't pass

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Speaker 3: some budget. They want to cut everything. They're voting every

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Speaker 3: day on making the salaries of the National Student of

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Speaker 3: Health Director one dollar, the person who helps give student

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Speaker 3: loads what dollar. The person who keeps our air clean

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Speaker 3: one dollar? Air traffic controllers what dollar. Literally, these are

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Speaker 3: their abdmits. It's a circus and they are the weakest

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Speaker 3: leak right now in the attire Republican political system. Weaker

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Speaker 3: than Trump, by the way. I mean, that's where I

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Speaker 3: think that their biggest vulnerability.

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Speaker 1: Is one of the things that Republicans are sort of

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Speaker 1: trying to do before the holiday, even though they have

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Speaker 1: passed this tiered CR, which is just kind of a scam, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's just a CR. But they're trying to

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Speaker 1: perhaps right do a supplemental with funding for Ukraine Israel.

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Speaker 1: But the pound of flash they want is to make

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Speaker 1: it even harder for people to come to this country.

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Speaker 1: Explain to me what the thinking here is you think

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Speaker 1: and what is going on?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's hijacking important for an aid that's needed for Ukraine,

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Speaker 3: for defensive equipment for Israel to a ideological ejecta. What

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Speaker 3: they want to do is get rid of the president's

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Speaker 3: parole power. Well, the parole power is what allowed the

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Speaker 3: president to have Ukrainians leeing Ukraine come to the United

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Speaker 3: States for two years. It's what allowed the president to

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Speaker 3: have Afrighanis who fought with us, will help be translators

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Speaker 3: for America troops come here after we withdrew for two years,

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Speaker 3: and no one thinks that we should be taking the

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Speaker 3: parole power away from the president who is thoughtful about

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Speaker 3: foreign affairs. That's what they want to do, and I

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Speaker 3: don't think the Democrats of the Senate are going to

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Speaker 3: go for it. So what's the result. The result is

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Speaker 3: our money for Ukraine is running out. Ukraine has valiantly

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Speaker 3: fought off who valiantly made sure he doesn't get to Kiev,

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Speaker 3: and now all of that is at risk because we

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Speaker 3: can't get our act together.

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Speaker 1: So do you think that as we are watching this,

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Speaker 1: I think that there's a news cycle that's finally focused

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Speaker 1: on the incredible danger of a second Trump president. Say,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that Trump has been musing about

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Speaker 1: from the side lines is using the insurrection act to

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Speaker 1: immediately if God forbid he wins, shut down any protests,

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Speaker 1: put everybody in jail. Is there a moment where Congress

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Speaker 1: and the Senate could temper presidential power when it comes

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Speaker 1: to that, or is that just beyond possible.

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Speaker 3: That's what we should be doing. But you've got the

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Speaker 3: Speaker Johnson who was the personal attorney or file lawsuits

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Speaker 3: for Donald Trump to try to overturn the election. So

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Speaker 3: you know, it's probably not a.

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Speaker 6: Very realistic scenario.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, here's the law that considers me a

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Speaker 3: twenty eleven Obama signed the law. He said his administration

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Speaker 3: wasn't going to enforce it, but he was forced to

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Speaker 3: sign this terrible law to just get our troops funded.

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Speaker 3: And it says that any American citizen could be detained

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Speaker 3: by the military. Military could cut to your door, detain

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Speaker 3: you without a trial, without a ward if they think

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Speaker 3: that you're connected to terrorism or a national security threat. Well,

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Speaker 3: most presidents fire, they're not going to abuse that, but

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Speaker 3: you could see how a stat like that gets abused

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Speaker 3: by Donald Trump. Same with the insurrection statue. And we

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Speaker 3: need to narrow some of those presidential powers which we

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Speaker 3: have relied on norms to chat, but I know Jamie

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Speaker 3: Raskin several of us are working on it, but it's

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Speaker 3: going to be an uphill battle with Johnson as speaker.

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Speaker 1: Is Johnson just so new? Remember they put the person

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Speaker 1: who is number four in the caucus in power. Is

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Speaker 1: he just so new that he doesn't know how to

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Speaker 1: do a lot of this stuff? Or is he so

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Speaker 1: ideologically burn it down and you know, small government that

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Speaker 1: he doesn't want to do a lot of this stuff.

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Speaker 3: I think he's very ideological. You may be willing to

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Speaker 3: have government funded, but he's beholden to a ideological caucus

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Speaker 3: that wants grass stick twenty thirty percent huts and food

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Speaker 3: assistants and housing assistants and educational assistants and agencies that

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Speaker 3: keep are air, clean water, cleay. That's who he's beholden to.

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Speaker 3: That's how he's gotten elected. And with Trump, he's got

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Speaker 3: total fealty. I mean, he's the person who led the

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Speaker 3: lawsuits to overturn the election results. So the idea that

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Speaker 3: he's going to work to limit a future candidate Trump

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Speaker 3: becoming president's power is just unrealistic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you have like eight days until the vacation or

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Speaker 1: it's not vacation, but it's sort of vacation. You have

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Speaker 1: eight days until then. Do you think you're going to

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Speaker 1: be able to sort of get anything done with this

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Speaker 1: supplemental or you think it's just they're just going to

439
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:31,239
Speaker 1: hold it up.

440
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, I think they're going to hold it up. I mean,

441
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 3: I hope we would see movement, but the Senate hasn't

442
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 3: been able to move. But forget the House, the Senate.

443
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 3: It's so extreme what they're demanding that the Democratic senators

444
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 3: have concerned. So you know, the only shot is that

445
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 3: the Senate sends us something and that jams up Johnson

446
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 3: and forces his hand and we vote on it. But

447
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 3: so far it doesn't look like the Senate's going to

448
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 3: send us anything.

449
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: What does that mean for like the Ukrainians?

450
00:24:58,280 --> 00:24:59,639
Speaker 3: Well, why does this end?

451
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 6: The fun runs out soon?

452
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 3: I mean they're not going to specify the exact number

453
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 3: of days, but we're talking about days and a few months,

454
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 3: not you know, a half a year. And if we

455
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,400
Speaker 3: don't have the funding it, they don't have the weapons.

456
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 6: I mean, that's basically handing Putin away.

457
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 3: And I mean, obviously the Ukrainians have great resolve, but

458
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 3: they have great bravery and there's going to skill keep

459
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 3: up the fight, but they're going to be fighting then

460
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 3: with a huge disadvantage.

461
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 1: There's no escape hatch for this.

462
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 6: There is it.

463
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 3: Congress has the power at the fun thing. The administration

464
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 3: can't fund things without Congress, and that was the Iran

465
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 3: contrast scandal with Reagan. The president can't do it.

466
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Tom, just now, I'm just thinking about the

467
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: idea of finding doing that. So let's just talk brass tacks.

468
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 1: New Year is going to be a complete nightmare in

469
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 1: your head? Does this chaos, I mean, besides hurting the

470
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 1: American people and the Ukrainians and likely a bunch of

471
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 1: other unforced errors, do you think this helps Democrats win

472
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: back the House?

473
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 3: I do. I think that the fact that they've it's chaotic,

474
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 3: that they can't keep government open, that they can't get

475
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 3: a Speaker of the House, that they deposed the Speaker

476
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 3: of the House, that they've got to be spelling members.

477
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 3: I think lost Americas look at this and say we

478
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 3: can't have two more years of this cloud show and

479
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 3: this chaos. So I do think that they helped the

480
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 3: Democrats get back the House. The only challenge we have

481
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 3: is redistricting. You know, some of the lions drawn in

482
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 3: states like North Carolina have been very, very unfair, and

483
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 3: if we don't win back the House, it's because of

484
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 3: the redistricting issues.

485
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: At this point, there's going to be a special election

486
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: for the Santos seat that will change the balance more.

487
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: I mean, and again this is like my West wing brain,

488
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: but is there a world in which somehow you flip

489
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 1: a vulnerable Republican.

490
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 6: Or there's a chance.

491
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I mean they're you know, McCarthy made

492
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 3: out right, they made moves out or House members. I

493
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,360
Speaker 3: definitely think there is a chant that McCarthy, I mean,

494
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 3: that keep Jeffries emerge as a speaker. Their majority is

495
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 3: very narrow. But you know, anyone who votes against Johnson

496
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 3: is basically saying they're going to lose a primary. So

497
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:18,959
Speaker 3: you read my guest is you probably need them to

498
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 3: flip to becoming a Democrat and then supporting them as

499
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 3: a Democrat. It's not out of the realm of possibility.

500
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: I'm shocked to hear that and delighted. Thank you so

501
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: much for joining us through OCANNA.

502
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 3: Thank you always enjoy it.

503
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: Mark Ciasano is the author of the Fabulous Line Hustling grifting,

504
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 1: stealing and very American legend of George Santos. Welcome to

505
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: Fast Politics.

506
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 6: Mark, thank you for having me.

507
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: So he's fresh.

508
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 4: He likes to look fresh, he does.

509
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: We're talking about New York Congressman George Santos. Tell me

510
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 1: how you got going on this book and how you

511
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 1: got such good timing.

512
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 6: I've been following Santas for a long time.

513
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,119
Speaker 5: I was reporting on him back at Newsday in twenty

514
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 5: nineteen eight. It was, you know, my editor comes up

515
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 5: to my desk one day in November and says, there's

516
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 5: this new guy running against Tom Swazi, who's the incumbent

517
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 5: Democrat in C.

518
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 6: Three.

519
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 5: And she was like, give him a call, check it out,

520
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 5: you know, just write a quick little update.

521
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 6: I was writing for this newsletter at the time, and

522
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 6: so I did.

523
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 5: I gave him a call, and the strange thing was

524
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 5: that right away he said, you know, oh, I'm launching

525
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,239
Speaker 5: my campaign today. So I thought, great, okay, I'll come

526
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 5: meet you. You know, I'm in the neighborhood. Just let

527
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 5: me know where it is and I'll come over. But

528
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 5: he said no, Actually he was in Florida at the

529
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 5: time for a work conference. So that was like this

530
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 5: first strangeness, It's like, why are you launching your campaign

531
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 5: for a New York district from Florida? And you know,

532
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 5: things just got weird from there.

533
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: Why was he launching his campaign from Florida?

534
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 5: He's claimed he was at a work conference down there,

535
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 5: and there were indeed, like social media that he posted

536
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 5: from there, so it was, you know, one of his

537
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 5: sort of vaguely financial jobs. But yeah, it made no sense.

538
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 5: You know, why wouldn't you just wait another day? You know,

539
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 5: in retrospect, I kind of think what happened is he

540
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 5: did that kind of like typical new candidate thing of

541
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 5: just wanting to get as much press as possible, and

542
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 5: he thought, oh, you know, Newsday is calling me today,

543
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 5: so today is the launch.

544
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 6: But you know, it was weird.

545
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 5: It was like, why are you Why are you telling

546
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 5: me that you're launching your campaign today? If you maybe are,

547
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 5: but maybe aren't.

548
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to go out on a limb here and

549
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: say something crazy and controversial. Politicians lie, that's kind of

550
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: not unused ale, but he has hit such a sort

551
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: of other level of lying. I was wondering if you

552
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,479
Speaker 1: could talk to us a little bit about that.

553
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, there's one moment in the book that

554
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 5: I like a lot that kind of you know, gets

555
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 5: at this. It's Santos is talking to this other queen's

556
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 5: political candidate who was a little bit younger than him,

557
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 5: and I guess Santos kind of sees himself as a

558
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 5: mentor figures thing. And the guy tells Santos how old

559
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 5: he is, because Santos asked him, and then Santos says, ah, yes,

560
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 5: I remember, you know at that age, something like I

561
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 5: made my first million already.

562
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 6: And what was weird.

563
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 5: About this to the other candidate was that it seemed

564
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 5: to him that Santos really believed this, Like it wasn't

565
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 5: like just a thing that he made up, but he

566
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 5: literally legitimately believed that he'd made a million dollars before

567
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 5: he turns thirty, you know, which is totally not true.

568
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 5: And so I think that's a little bit what sets

569
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 5: him apart from a candidate who maybe misspeaks or sort

570
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 5: of exaggerates or goes a little too far on something

571
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 5: or literally just lies, you know, right, Because like you said,

572
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 5: lots of politicians totally lie, but usually they lie for

573
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 5: a reason. They lie on a specific subject. There's limits

574
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 5: to it, and with Santos there have basically been few limits.

575
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,959
Speaker 1: So some of the lying about his backstory, it was

576
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: so unnecessary and got him into so much trouble.

577
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 6: Could you talk about that?

578
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 5: Yes, And I think this is sort of where he

579
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 5: just didn't need to lie sometimes. I guess he does

580
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 5: two things. There are some times where he doesn't need

581
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 5: to lie, and he lies anyway, right, and then there's

582
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 5: other moments where he seems to be lying for some purpose,

583
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,239
Speaker 5: like to connect with his audience or to kind of

584
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 5: continue the conversation going or something. So I think that's

585
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 5: a little bit what happened with, for example, that famous

586
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 5: volleyball line, which I go into like how that happened.

587
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 5: In the book, he basically claims that he not only

588
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 5: went to Beroke College, which he did not, it's a

589
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 5: college in New York. He also claims that he was

590
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 5: a championship volleyball player for the team, which he was not.

591
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 5: He's on a radio show. This is kind of like

592
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 5: the big lie about volleyball. He's on a radio show

593
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 5: and basically the two hosts are sort of chatting with him,

594
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 5: and somehow it comes up that one of the children

595
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 5: of the hosts you know, was a I think a

596
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 5: volleyball player and a tennis player, maybe an athlete, and

597
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 5: Santo says, oh, you know, so am I I'm an athlete,

598
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 5: And then he goes into this whole volleyballs thing, you know,

599
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 5: kind of connecting with the host on this level, both

600
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 5: that the host, I think one of the host's kids

601
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 5: was an athlete and the other host kid was a Barugrad.

602
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 5: So he's just kind of grasping at these connections and

603
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 5: launches into this crazy story claiming that the team, you know,

604
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 5: beat some ivy League schools that didn't even have volleyball

605
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 5: teams at the time. Just kind of kind of zany stuff.

606
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 5: The other funny thing is that though he seems to

607
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 5: kind of take stories from other people sometimes. So he

608
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 5: had a former boss at a vaguely financially related company

609
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 5: who actually was a volleyball star at group, and is

610
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 5: it possibly he took the story right from him. It

611
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 5: seems like it. It seems too sort of coincidental. And

612
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 5: that's a pattern that I sort of go into in

613
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 5: the book as well.

614
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 1: When does it start to come crashing down this because

615
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: he's getting away with it for a while totally.

616
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 6: He has lots of crashing down moments.

617
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 5: You know, his life is kind of gone in this

618
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 5: funny cyclical maybe like or parabolic wave kind of thing

619
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 5: where he's doing great, he's making money, you know, the

620
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 5: lying is working, and then it'll sort of hit an obstacle. So,

621
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 5: you know, one of them was with this check fraud

622
00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 5: case in Brazil. Basically he's using checks that were owned

623
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 5: by a dead guy and he tries to pass off

624
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 5: these old checks and he gets caught right in Brazil

625
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 5: when he's you know, not even twenty, and that was tough, right.

626
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 5: He's charged for this in Brazil, but he kind of

627
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 5: gets away, he leaves, they can't find him.

628
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 6: He sort of escapes. You know.

629
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 5: Another kind of moment of crisis came when he's running

630
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 5: for office and his own campaign staff does this vulnerability

631
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 5: study on him and they find all this crazy stuff,

632
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 5: a lot of the stuff we know now that he

633
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 5: didn't go to the colleges. He said he wanted to,

634
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 5: you know, he had all these wild things that he's

635
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 5: claims to have done in his background, which he hadn't,

636
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 5: and they said to him, look, George, you got to

637
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 5: not run like this is crazy. This is going to

638
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 5: come out and he tried to make excuses. He said, no, no, no,

639
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 5: it's fine, you know, I'm gonna explain, and he never

640
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 5: did explain, and those you know, campaign staff left and

641
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 5: he kind of got through. So there's there's these moments

642
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 5: of him kind of overcoming and overcoming and overcoming and

643
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 5: you know until finally he couldn't overcome anymore. Get us

644
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 5: to the indictment, right, So the indictment comes after the

645
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,439
Speaker 5: great New York Times story from December of last year, right,

646
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 5: which you know, showed it kind of pulled all the

647
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 5: threads together and showed, you know, all this crazy stuff

648
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 5: that he was claiming that was totally not true. And

649
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 5: so that kind of started as free for all of people,

650
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 5: you know, poking into his background and not only finding lies,

651
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 5: but finding these schemes that Santos was running, and a

652
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 5: lot of them were published and so some of that

653
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 5: is what the Feds indicted him for, was this kind

654
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 5: of different schemes. What was interesting about Santa's now been indicted.

655
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 5: He is twenty three it's a twenty three count federal indictment.

656
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 5: He was in he there were two separate indictments. In

657
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 5: the first one, it was really very narrow and kind

658
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 5: of what people call like a paper case. It was

659
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 5: pretty straightforward, just things that basically Santos lied about in documents.

660
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 5: You know, lawyers I talked to said this is pretty

661
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 5: open at shut you know, he doesn't have much of

662
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,800
Speaker 5: a chance. He obviously he's pleading not guilty and says

663
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 5: he didn't do the things.

664
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 6: But it's an uphill battle.

665
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 5: So in some ways, like what's in the book or

666
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 5: what a lot of people know about Santos is kind

667
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 5: of way more lurid and wild than what he was

668
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 5: actually indicted for. That's not to say he can't be

669
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 5: indicted again. There can be another superseding indictment for Santos.

670
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 5: So he's in a lot of trouble.

671
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: I mean a lot of the lies he did, lying

672
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: about your past or lying about your mother, none of

673
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 1: those things are illegal. Where he gets into legal trouble

674
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: is when it comes to the campaign finance stuff, right totally.

675
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 5: I mean, that's one big balloon of illegality with him.

676
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 5: It's like there's a lot of allegedly illegal behavior that

677
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 5: he has committed. But yeah, the campaign finance stuff is

678
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 5: big and kind of fun actually, so we know even

679
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,280
Speaker 5: more about this because of the House Ethics Committee report

680
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 5: from a little bit ago now, But he basically was,

681
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 5: you know, using campaign funds in all these different, totally

682
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 5: inappropriate ways.

683
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 6: I'll give you one example.

684
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 5: He was just straight up using campaign funds for what

685
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 5: he logged as botox. Right, you're not supposed to do that.

686
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 6: He was supposed to.

687
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: Use like but he wanted to look fresh.

688
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 5: He wanted to look fresh, and you know, this was

689
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 5: this is how I started the book, is with this

690
00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 5: kind of deep dive into Santos's head about like what

691
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 5: he sees when he looks in the mirror, because I

692
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,359
Speaker 5: think that is kind of how you understand Santos, that

693
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 5: he wanted to look different, he wanted to look fresh,

694
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:04,320
Speaker 5: you know, and.

695
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 6: There's so much of it.

696
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 5: I mean, there's botox, He's talked about lipossumption, lap band surgery,

697
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 5: using ozempic. He even claims that he was a stockholder

698
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 5: in Ozempic, which doesn't seem to be true at least

699
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,240
Speaker 5: not as according to his filings. This is a big

700
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,240
Speaker 5: part of his life is him wanting to look different

701
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 5: and in his mind better, And I do think that

702
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 5: that kind of explained some of where the line comes from.

703
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 1: What I was struck by what the Ethics investigation was

704
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: that it's unusual for an ethics investigation usually they provide cover,

705
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 1: and that didn't happen here, right, Can you talk a

706
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: little bit about that.

707
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, So what was so kind of extraordinary and wild

708
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 5: about this Ethics Committee investigation is that they had the

709
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 5: bank statements right. They actually knew what he spent money on,

710
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 5: where the money came in, and that's what's been missing before.

711
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 5: So we actually saw not just what he said he

712
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,919
Speaker 5: was spending money on, but what he actually, like where

713
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 5: the money actually went. So I think that that is

714
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 5: partially why it's so different than other Ethics Committee reports

715
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 5: in the past, because there's just so much like well

716
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,479
Speaker 5: documented stuff in there.

717
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 6: And yeah, like you said.

718
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 5: It's uncommon for a member of Congress to be expelled, right,

719
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 5: So this is this is just like one of the

720
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 5: more extraordinary things about Santos.

721
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,879
Speaker 1: Do you think there are lessons to be taken from

722
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: the Santos experience? I mean, he didn't win like a

723
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: ruby red seed. He won a very competitive seed, so

724
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 1: it must have been fuck up, you know, among fuck

725
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: up among fuck up to get here right for Democrats?

726
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean so I call it a kind of

727
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 5: perfect storm election. All everything broke this guy's way this year,

728
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 5: and I mean, it's it's what's funny about this is

729
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 5: that so much of it is kind of not even

730
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 5: that interesting. You know, the district was redistricted, there were

731
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,359
Speaker 5: you know, there was this like big red wave year

732
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,720
Speaker 5: in this very specific area, even if Democrats at large

733
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 5: did very well in.

734
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 6: The midterms of twenty twenty two.

735
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 5: So it's it's just funny that this bungling guy sort

736
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 5: of stumbled his way into a congressional seat. Lying all

737
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 5: the way that being said, he also was very good

738
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 5: at harnessing these currents that were you know, that were

739
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 5: happening in the district, like a sentiment of like anger

740
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 5: at COVID mitigations. You know, people were sort of tired

741
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 5: in New York of COVID and so criminal justice reforms.

742
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 6: He worked with that.

743
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 5: And I think what separated him from other politicians is,

744
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 5: you know, other people can exaggerate, or they sort of

745
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 5: try to rally up.

746
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 6: A crowd or something. He just doesn't care.

747
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 5: You know, He'll just tell tell a group of people

748
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 5: what they want to hear, and that makes it a

749
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 5: lot easier to kind of get that political current so interesting.

750
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: Why do you think like Republicans have been really careful

751
00:39:54,680 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: about not condemning corruption, and I'm thinking about with Senator Menendez,

752
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 1: Republicans were careful not to touch him, right. The thinking

753
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:10,479
Speaker 1: had to have been, if we condemn Senator Menendez, we're

754
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: going to have to condemn Trump, and nobody wants to

755
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: do that because he's the leader of the Republican Party.

756
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 1: So I'm curious when you look at Santos, that is

757
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: not what happened with Santos. Republicans are delighted to condemn him,

758
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,040
Speaker 1: and in fact, it looks like they could do much

759
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: more than that. I'm curious what you think the difference

760
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: between the two are, the difference between a sort of

761
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: okay with corruption. I mean, I just am curious in

762
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,280
Speaker 1: you're yeah, totally.

763
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,800
Speaker 5: This is one of my favorite pieces of the book

764
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 5: is going into doing kind of deep dive into the

765
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 5: Nasau County political world that Santos comes up in. So

766
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 5: basically Nasa County, the GOP there are wildly powerful, like

767
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 5: dating back to the last century. It's like, you know,

768
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 5: Ron Reagan said, when when a Republican dies and goes

769
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 5: to have and it looks like Nasa County, you know,

770
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 5: like this, it's a GOP place, you know, at least

771
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 5: in the in the twentieth century. And that changed and

772
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 5: it shifted and the party had lots of corruption scandals

773
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 5: and got weaker. But you know, it's still there and

774
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 5: it's still kind of working hard. And Santos is not

775
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 5: a party guy. He is like he comes from the

776
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 5: outside as the current GOP chair like loves to say,

777
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 5: you know, oh, he's not my guy, you know, like

778
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 5: everyone's kind of pointing away, but he's really not. It's

779
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 5: like most of a lot of the candidates historically have

780
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 5: been you know, Irish Italian, Santos is like an outsider.

781
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: He's Jewishish, yeah right.

782
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 5: I mean the Jewish thing is a super fun thing

783
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 5: to jump into because you know, he claims he is

784
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 5: actually Jewish, right, and that also he sometimes joked about

785
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 5: being Jewish.

786
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: You know.

787
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 5: This is the fun thing about this book was I

788
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 5: tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and say, Okay,

789
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 5: here's what he's saying. If he's doubling down on something,

790
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 5: let me see if it's true or not. So I

791
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 5: really tried to find whether he could have been Jewish,

792
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 5: and the moral of the story is, you know, his

793
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 5: family has this tradition of maybe generations back having some

794
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:13,240
Speaker 5: Jewish roots. So the answer is now, yeah, exactly exactly.

795
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 5: But it's like, it's crazy that what you have to

796
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 5: do to kind of prove it negative, right.

797
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: And that is such a good point. Thank you so much, Mark,

798
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: great to have you.

799
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 5: Thanks Molly, No moment exactly, Jesse Cannon, Oh.

800
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: No, Molly Cash, Patel and Steve ben and they're going

801
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: to put us in jail. They're going to be in Gato.

802
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: I feel like you have like a little sense of

803
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 1: humor about this, but as someone who will be in

804
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 1: Guintanamo Bay Gitmo as it's called.

805
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 6: For sure, yea.

806
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: I comforted my loving partner by saga.

807
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 7: I'm probably not important enough for them to do this too,

808
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,320
Speaker 7: so that that's probably likely why I'm back toglect this bring.

809
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:04,720
Speaker 1: You to tell me that, Jesse Cannon, I've always longed

810
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 1: to see Cooba, but this is not how I want

811
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: to see it.

812
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 7: Highly confident that when you go back and as a

813
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 7: senior member of this administration, President Trump's administration, starting in

814
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 7: the afternoon of the twentieth of January of twenty twenty five.

815
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 7: Do you feel confident that you will be able to

816
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:27,240
Speaker 7: deliver the goods? That we can have serious prosecutions and accountability?

817
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 7: And I want the Morning Joe producers that watch us,

818
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 7: and all the producers to watch us. This is just

819
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 7: not rhetoric. We're absolutely dead serious. You cannot have a

820
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 7: constitutional republic and allow what these deep staters have done

821
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 7: to the country. The deep state, the administration state, the

822
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 7: fourth branch of government never mentioned in the Constitution, is

823
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 7: going to be taken apart brick by brick, and the

824
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 7: people that did these evil deeds will be held accountable

825
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 7: and prosecuted criminal prosecutions. Cash, I know you're probably going

826
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 7: to be of the CIA, but do you believe that

827
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 7: you can deliver the goods on this and pretty short

828
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 7: in a pretty short order of the first couple of months,

829
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 7: so we can get rolling on prosecutions.

830
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: Yes, really incredibly scary stuff. That said, Cash, Battel is

831
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: wearing a hoodie. He's definitely not all there. We have,

832
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: luckily for us, gotten on the radar of one Steve Bannon,

833
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: who uh he calls me Molly Jong, except perhaps he

834
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,720
Speaker 1: is not a huge reader, so he calls me Molly Young,

835
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: which I had to listen to, but I think he's

836
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: saying young. But anyway, for those out there who know,

837
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: it's Jong like Kim Jong and for that, all of that,

838
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 1: the mispronunciation, the trip to Gitmo, you Cash Battel and

839
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 1: Steve Bannon are our moment of fuck right. That's it

840
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 1: for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday,

841
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: Wednesday and fri to hear the best minds in politics

842
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: makes sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what

843
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: you've heard, please send it to a friend and keep

844
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,400
Speaker 1: the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.