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Speaker 1: The guys from Ping. They've kind of showed me how

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Speaker 1: much the equipment matters.

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Speaker 2: I just love that I can hit any shot I

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Speaker 2: kind of want.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna be able to tell some fun stories about

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Speaker 1: what goes on here to help golfers play better golf.

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Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome back to the Pink Proven Grounds Podcast.

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Speaker 2: I'm Shane Bacon, joined us always by Marty Jerts and Marty.

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Speaker 2: We are diving deep with a man that I know

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Speaker 2: you work closely with this week.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we got Chris Brody here. Brody, as he goes

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Speaker 1: by amongst our engineering group and our R and D group,

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Speaker 1: has a background in mathematics and is the sun of

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Speaker 1: one very famous statistician in the golf industry. So Brody,

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Speaker 1: welcome to the pod man.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, Marian.

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Speaker 2: Shane, Chris, what's like dinner talk like with Pops when

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Speaker 2: you guys are just discussing golf? Can you have normal

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Speaker 2: golf conversations or does it always lend down some avenue

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Speaker 2: of analytics and like what's going on?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I feel like it gets pretty deep. There's been

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Speaker 3: a lot of recent work he's done on world golf rankings,

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Speaker 3: college golf rankings. So he's he's trying to figure it

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Speaker 3: out and hopefully not get too much abuse from from

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Speaker 3: PJ Tour pros. So it's it's it's fun to hear

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Speaker 3: what's going on in his in his world of golf rankings.

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Speaker 1: Brody before your dad got into the what he's kind

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Speaker 1: of working on now, which is the world world golf rankings,

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Speaker 1: the college side of things. Obviously, he he, you know,

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Speaker 1: wrote the book Every Shot Counts, a kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: golf's version of Moneyball is is I think the best

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Speaker 1: analogy therefore, tell us about your kind of childhood and

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Speaker 1: in some early days of you know, some of the

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Speaker 1: work and background he was doing in the golf space.

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Speaker 1: How did how did he get interested or involved in golf?

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Speaker 1: And how did you you know, you and your brother,

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Speaker 1: your family members there contribute to that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, it's been it's been very fun to

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Speaker 3: see the progression of early days of interest to writing

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Speaker 3: a book getting adopted by PJ Tour. I think interestingly,

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Speaker 3: for me, there's always been like golf and math floating

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Speaker 3: around in the background. But for me, it start a

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Speaker 3: lot with baseball. I remember playing Little League as like

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Speaker 3: a seven eight year old and probably classically. My dad

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Speaker 3: would start to record, not just like your typical like

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Speaker 3: walk singles, but you record like where the ball was

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Speaker 3: hit to what each player on the team was doing.

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Speaker 3: So he started asking me, okay, like if you were

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Speaker 3: to manage this team, like what would you do? How

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Speaker 3: would you set the lineup for our little league baseball team?

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Speaker 3: And he's like, one of the first questions like, okay,

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Speaker 3: how many how many different combinations of lineups are there?

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Speaker 3: And it's okay, So the first batter you can put

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Speaker 3: there's nine different people who can choose from second bat

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Speaker 3: is eight different people, and so you'd be okay. So

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Speaker 3: the number of combinations you can think through is nine

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Speaker 3: times eight times seven times six. And I was like this,

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Speaker 3: this is kind of this kind of getting into like

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Speaker 3: what the dinner dinner time my seven year old dinner

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Speaker 3: time conversation.

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Speaker 2: You're like, I just want to play baseball, man, you're

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Speaker 2: talking about.

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Speaker 3: I loved it. It was like, okay, I think you might

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Speaker 3: have set up like a custom simulation for me of

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Speaker 3: like all right, we can put this player here, see

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Speaker 3: a expected runs there are? And he was like, quickly,

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Speaker 3: very quickly, you learn that, like you want to have

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Speaker 3: your best player up first. It's like at the most

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Speaker 3: possible at bats. And that was like very early like Moneyball,

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Speaker 3: like same same conclusion. You want to have your highest

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Speaker 3: on base sentage hitter going off first. Similarly, like we

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Speaker 3: looked at like where the hits were in the field,

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Speaker 3: and like, no little leaguer can keep up with a fastball,

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Speaker 3: so they all hit it to the right side. So

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Speaker 3: you put your best defensive guy at second base. Interesting,

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Speaker 3: so the Nuggets were rolling in pretty quick. Another one

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Speaker 3: we're going we're going probably too deep into baseball. But

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Speaker 3: another one was he asked me, like, what what percent

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Speaker 3: of time do you need to successfully steal second in

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Speaker 3: order to make it worth it? So guy on first,

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Speaker 3: no Out's like, when should you give the guy green

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Speaker 3: light to steal? And I guess my first like initial

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Speaker 3: thought is, okay, well what's the average success rate? Like

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Speaker 3: if you can get over seven percent, then go ahead,

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Speaker 3: And he's like no, no, there's like there's a better

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Speaker 3: way of think through it, and so we end up

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Speaker 3: breaking it down. It's okay, with a man on first,

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Speaker 3: no outs, your expected runs is maybe point eight, but

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Speaker 3: if you get that guy a second, it jumps up

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Speaker 3: to one point zero. Now a single might score him,

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Speaker 3: but then if he gets out, now you have nobody

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Speaker 3: on and one out and you're down to like point

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Speaker 3: two runs. And so say, okay, you just gotta look

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Speaker 3: at the trade off of going point eight to one

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Speaker 3: point zero or point eight down to point two, and

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Speaker 3: to make it worthwhile steal you've got to have an

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Speaker 3: over seventy five percent success rate. And it's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: that's that's that's the pretty unid insight. And you can

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Speaker 3: do that for what happens if this guy in first

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Speaker 3: two outs and they can do the math again, it's like, okay,

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Speaker 3: if it's zero point two with two outs and guy

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Speaker 3: on first, make it cessful and a guy guy in

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Speaker 3: scorem position, you have too point four. But then if

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Speaker 3: you if you're unsuccessful, the aning's over and down to zero.

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Speaker 3: But interesting thing there is, if it's point two verse

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Speaker 3: point four, all you need is a figure sent success

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Speaker 3: rate to make it worthwhile. And so it's like, okay,

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Speaker 3: the incentive then is to send a lot of guys

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Speaker 3: to try to steal second with two outs, think on first.

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Speaker 3: So a lot of things end up like correlating well

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Speaker 3: with golf, Like you don't want to just look at

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Speaker 3: raw stolen base percentage, Like the metric that matters for

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Speaker 3: baseball is run scored.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think that translated over pretty quickly towards golf, Like

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Speaker 3: you don't really want to care about what your farely

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Speaker 3: hit percentage is, what your green hit percentage is. What

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Speaker 3: really matters at the end of the day is how

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Speaker 3: many shots that take you to get into the hole.

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Speaker 3: And so you can hit a good drive that doesn't

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Speaker 3: hit the fair way, but if it's three hundred and

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Speaker 3: thirty yards down there, you might be in a pretty

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Speaker 3: good spot.

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Speaker 2: Marty. It's interesting, you know, as Chris talks about this,

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Speaker 2: I think about in my life and we're similar raised

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Speaker 2: to Marty, but in my life, like the real switch

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Speaker 2: for analytics and golf to me personally, was the switch

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Speaker 2: from how we play par fives. Yes, and I feel

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Speaker 2: like it was probably fifteen twenty years ago, Matt. Maybe

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Speaker 2: now was twenty five years ago, where the idea was

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Speaker 2: layup to enough you can't get there into lay up

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Speaker 2: to a number you're comfortable with. And you know, for

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Speaker 2: me it was always ninety five to one hundred yards.

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Speaker 2: I've lay up to that number or tried to and

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Speaker 2: that gave you the best chance of making birdie. And

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Speaker 2: then there was a flip I feel like in the

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Speaker 2: early two thousands where numbers and data started to tell

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Speaker 2: us no, no, no, no, no, send it as far up as

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Speaker 2: you can ye with both both golf shots, because it's

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Speaker 2: obviously the easiest place to get up and down make birdie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, when when Brody was talking about the baseball in

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Speaker 1: his work his dad was doing on the baseball side,

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Speaker 1: my brain was on, okay, instead of should I steal second?

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Speaker 1: Should I go for the par five and two? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: That was exactly Yeah, that was exactly where my head

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Speaker 1: was at. So yeah, that's it's super cool Brody to

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Speaker 1: hear those those early days of like your dad thinking

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Speaker 1: about the probabilities. I mean, one of the other questions

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Speaker 1: I always thought of Shane when I was in school

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Speaker 1: for the listeners out there is is Brodie's background is

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Speaker 1: in mathematics. His degrees in math, and I'm always like,

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Speaker 1: what does a math major even do? So I think

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Speaker 1: Brodie's a real life example here, Chris, tell us a

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Speaker 1: little bit why you went that direction and some of

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Speaker 1: the work you do, you know, like day to day,

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Speaker 1: like what does a math major do in the working world.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely didn't have much of a clue what I

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Speaker 3: was gonna do. When I was in college. I was like,

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Speaker 3: I know, I've always liked math. I've always enjoyed having

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Speaker 3: these how can I apply data to different problems? And

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Speaker 3: it was more it was more just like, Okay, I

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Speaker 3: think if I do a math major, I'm gonna have

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Speaker 3: some open something's gonna work out, like it might be consulting,

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Speaker 3: it might be econ, but I'll keep my options open.

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Speaker 3: And I definitely gravitated towards like applied math problems, probably

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Speaker 3: stunning from when I was seven years old, and so

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Speaker 3: it worked out pretty well with I think at the

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Speaker 3: end of my college career, we're doing a lot of

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Speaker 3: theoreical math. I was like, this is not quite clicking

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Speaker 3: for me. I was very lucky to get to paying

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Speaker 3: and they're like, oh, we got a whole lot of

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Speaker 3: data and a whole lot of problems we want you

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Speaker 3: to look at. And it was really fun, just like

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Speaker 3: dive into a world of golf and math and continue

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Speaker 3: with a lot of my growing up interests.

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Speaker 2: Chris, can you give us an example of something once

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Speaker 2: you came to Paying because your job at Paying fitting

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Speaker 2: science manager, what like giving us an example of something

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Speaker 2: somebody might come to you with a problem to find

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Speaker 2: a solution, like anything that's popped up throughout your career pain.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there's been a lot of really fun

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Speaker 3: different ones. One of the more fun ones was Travis Milman,

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Speaker 3: one of our design engineers, was working on our G

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Speaker 3: four to thirty Farawood line and he's like, hey, we

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Speaker 3: have ten grams of discretionary mass. It's just kind of

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Speaker 3: the gold currency for designers. And he was like, should

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Speaker 3: we just keep on pushing MI we can probably get

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Speaker 3: like a five to ten percent boost this Ferrywood or

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Speaker 3: I can move around the mass, I can try to

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Speaker 3: drop the CG location. And we kind of had a

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Speaker 3: hunch that maybe, like if we canet a little bit

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Speaker 3: higher launched, lower spin out of our out of our farrewoods,

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Speaker 3: like it could be a pretty nice gain in terms

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Speaker 3: of strokes gain in terms of performance. But it's a

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Speaker 3: hard one from a design side, like he's not really

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Speaker 3: sure how to tell that story, like what exactly do

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Speaker 3: you gain from higher launch and lower spin? And so

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Speaker 3: I was able to use some of my simulation background,

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Speaker 3: use our vocal data where we know help people deliver

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Speaker 3: fairy woods, and basically run a virtual test that Okay,

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Speaker 3: if we use your default G four twenty five head

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Speaker 3: shape with these mass properties versus a four point thirty

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Speaker 3: with maybe your higher MLI pathway versus four thirty with

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Speaker 3: your lower CG pathway, or the trade offs that you

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Speaker 3: can see in terms of performance and kind of all

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Speaker 3: the things that matter not just can your longest shot

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Speaker 3: go further, but what happens on your full range of

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Speaker 3: impacts and mishits. And that's where looking at through a

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Speaker 3: stroke scand lens kind of helps you blend those things together.

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Speaker 3: It's not just seeing the ball as far as possible

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Speaker 3: every time, but it's getting that right blend of distance

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Speaker 3: and accuracy. And so that was a fun one where

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Speaker 3: I could tell him like, hey, this is unconventional, but

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Speaker 3: you can drop the MI by a decent amount. But

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Speaker 3: on that Elsie Farrowood, if you can lower your CG

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Speaker 3: location by point one point two inches, you'll see a

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Speaker 3: pretty big boost and performance.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Shane Brody's been a big part of the ability,

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Speaker 1: as he talked about of connecting the dots on our

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Speaker 1: modeling capabilities. So, like you know, ping, we've gone through

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Speaker 1: this revolution where we used to always do like tons

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Speaker 1: of robot tests, but those have their limitations because while

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Speaker 1: sometimes you want to deliver the club perfectly the same

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Speaker 1: every time, it's not what humans do. So then we

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Speaker 1: have FOCAL. We spend some time in FOCAL. We talked

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Speaker 1: to doctor Eric hendrickson on how that works. Chris is

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Speaker 1: on the end of marrying those things together, running all

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Speaker 1: these what if scenarios, these virtual simulations, so it saves

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Speaker 1: us a lot of time and it helps us answer

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Speaker 1: questions with a lot more clarity more quickly because we

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Speaker 1: can run these things virtually, and then we can kind

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Speaker 1: of validate a hypothesis. Then we make the physical prototypes,

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Speaker 1: test them through our full suite of robot and human testing.

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Speaker 1: So been able to fast track. So a lot of

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Speaker 1: fun Chris working on that. Marty.

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Speaker 2: I got a question for you, Marty in this, In

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Speaker 2: this because I'm interested in this because Chris's point about

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Speaker 2: bringing an idea to him and having to figure it out. Marty,

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Speaker 2: I know you've been big in terms of you know,

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Speaker 2: conceptualizing golf clubs and building golf clubs over the last

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Speaker 2: couple decades at Ping, how many departments are you running

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Speaker 2: things by when you're coming up with a new driver?

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Speaker 2: I mean, are there ten departments you're going to and

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Speaker 2: you're saying, you help us with this, you help us

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Speaker 2: with this, because I don't think people at home think

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Speaker 2: about building a golf club and they're thinking Ping's trying

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Speaker 2: to make a golf club that goes as long as possible, right,

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Speaker 2: or it goes as straight as possible. But obviously there's

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Speaker 2: fifty one hundred and two hundred two thousand factors that

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Speaker 2: go into a driver. So like, how many departments are

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Speaker 2: you leaning on, Marty as you're coming up with the

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Speaker 2: new age, the new Ping driver.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's a great question, Shane. Like to get

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Speaker 1: a driver to the market, it's very super cross functional,

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Speaker 1: all right. So it's it's the designing it three D CAD,

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Speaker 1: the joints, the mechanical design optimization. Then you're working with

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Speaker 1: an innovation group and they're working on maybe materials like

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Speaker 1: our carbon fly wrap and things of that nature and

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Speaker 1: optimizing those kind of those are they're kind of baking

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Speaker 1: them in the R and D world, right and getting

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Speaker 1: them ready to be integrated to the design. Then you're

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Speaker 1: working with kind of supply chain, manufacturing, sourcing, materials, components,

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Speaker 1: project engineering, which is kind of all the detailed nitty

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Speaker 1: gritty to kind of ramp it up and scale the

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Speaker 1: manufacturing quality control to make sure we're bringing it for

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Speaker 1: designing a new manufacturing process, we can make it consistently

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Speaker 1: to meet our brand standards. Our testing group which make

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Speaker 1: sure it's not going to break, it's durable. We validated

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Speaker 1: the performance that we want. You know, we got you know,

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Speaker 1: a USGA liaison in here. We got my team now,

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Speaker 1: which is the fitting and performance group, which make sure

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Speaker 1: we're getting the right launch conditions. You know. Then you

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Speaker 1: got sales and marketing to kind of tell the worry

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Speaker 1: of it on the on the back end. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: cross functionally, I mean it's you know, over ten plus departments,

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Speaker 1: and you know we have eighty plus engineers putting their

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Speaker 1: fingerprints on it.

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Speaker 2: And Chris is a part of your team, so I

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Speaker 2: mean he's involved in so much of that kind of

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Speaker 2: from start to finish process of how that golf club's

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Speaker 2: going to look and perform and how it's going to

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Speaker 2: perform the best, and how it's going to function the best.

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Speaker 2: As he was mentioning kind of with that three wood example.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's left his fingerprint on especially the modeling side

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Speaker 1: of things here when we're looking at you know, being

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Speaker 1: able to do virtual player test, tying it not only

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Speaker 1: to our focal data, but also are like baldnamic. You know,

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Speaker 1: Chris and I have worked together and teamed up on

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Speaker 1: being able to simulate what's going to happen. How does

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Speaker 1: wind affect it in things of that nature as well

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Speaker 1: as Shane. Wh's really fun and Chris I want to

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Speaker 1: get into is learning from en course data. So I

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Speaker 1: think one of the things we have access to now is,

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Speaker 1: you know, hundreds of millions of shots from from from

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Speaker 1: Arcos and our partnership there where we got on course

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Speaker 1: really precise GPS tracking data. Chris, tell us a little

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Speaker 1: story of your first experience with that kind of again

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Speaker 1: stepping back into your childhoodhood here of helping collect some

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Speaker 1: data from en course play patterns, working with your dad

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Speaker 1: when he was first getting into that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we definitely have jumped around a good amount, but yeah,

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Speaker 3: definitely started. I think maybe now when I was ten,

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Speaker 3: my dad's focus shifted into the golf arena and how

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Speaker 3: can we do a better job understanding golf performance. There

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Speaker 3: are a bunch of different avenues. I think shot link

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Speaker 3: was starting to come into the fold, so he knew

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Speaker 3: there's some really good PGA Tour data, but there was

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Speaker 3: nothing on amateur data outside of some kind of fairly

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Speaker 3: hit green hit.

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Speaker 2: You were talking about you and your dad kind of

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Speaker 2: transitioning from baseball to golf. What was the why did

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Speaker 2: he want to get into the golf analytics side? Did

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Speaker 2: he get into golf at that point in his life?

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Speaker 2: Did he just see opportunity there?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I think I think he saw opportunity. I think

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Speaker 3: there's probably some frustration of trying to record golf stats

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Speaker 3: and seeing like just some really obvious potential flaws in

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Speaker 3: the stats. It was like there was, as I said,

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Speaker 3: like faraoe hit percentage, green hit percentage, Like I think

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Speaker 3: one of them was like putts per round, and it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: the leader of that stat is not necessarily the best putter.

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Speaker 3: It's the person who like misses the most screens and

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Speaker 3: chips it.

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Speaker 2: Up that's three feet totally totally.

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Speaker 3: So he's just like that doesn't seem right. And then

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Speaker 3: like every single stat you could just like poke some

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Speaker 3: holes in it's like, I don't know, Tiger's hitting it

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Speaker 3: miss He's missing like five percent more faraways than average,

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Speaker 3: So it's like always he's a bad driver of the ball.

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Speaker 3: I think that was a pretty like I've heard that

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Speaker 3: narrative still like two thousand and six, he's spraying everywhere.

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Speaker 3: Steven Aames probably bought into that too and lost nine

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Speaker 3: to eight. But it's like you see on the surface, like, Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 3: he's one eightieth and faaraow hit percentage, he has to

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Speaker 3: be a bad golf driver of the golf ball, but

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Speaker 3: just doesn't quite add up because you know, he's really

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Speaker 3: doing very well in terments and.

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Speaker 1: It was a weapon of him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah he hit it.

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Speaker 2: He might maybe sprayed a bit, but he had this

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Speaker 2: distance that people couldn't keep up with at a time

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Speaker 2: when that was transitioning into the game.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: So I think the focus we in the quote unquote

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Speaker 2: olden days in terms of statistics in golf, we were

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Speaker 2: looking at these things is absolutes. Right, you hit fairways,

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Speaker 2: that's great, You hit greens, that's great, But not every

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Speaker 2: green regulation is the same, and not every fairway hit

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Speaker 2: is the same, right, And I think that's something you

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Speaker 2: guys have done an unbelievable job at breaking down.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think it was just like, how do we get

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Speaker 3: this into a context that makes sense? I think even

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Speaker 3: the laying up on par fives, it's like there's some

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Speaker 3: psychological safety of Oh, I can really easily hit a

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Speaker 3: seven iron two hundred yards and I'm gonna hit the green,

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Speaker 3: so it's gonna look good from a status respective like

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Speaker 3: hitting more greens regulation that it feels safe. And it's

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Speaker 3: like if you do take out a threewood and plasted

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Speaker 3: around the green, somewhere you might be underneath the tree

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Speaker 3: and that it might be hard to get on the

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Speaker 3: green and you might be throwing off just like you're

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Speaker 3: clean round. But it was nicer. He could kind of

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Speaker 3: start to say, Okay, well, how do we get beyond

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Speaker 3: just these counting stats? And I think, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: My dad did a phenomenal job of like getting into

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Speaker 3: that simplest metric, which I think makes sense. Like a

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Speaker 3: lot of other stats have moved in that direction as well.

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Speaker 3: Expected goals now is in hockey and soccer, the runs

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Speaker 3: is in baseball. So it's like it was a trend

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Speaker 3: that was happening. I would say someone probably would have

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Speaker 3: come up with it if my dad did not, but

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Speaker 3: helped answer some of those questions where it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: what is the most meaningful metric for golf? It's shots

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Speaker 3: and if you start looking in that perspective, then everything

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Speaker 3: makes sense. Tires a really good driver with the golf ball.

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Speaker 3: He follows the same blueprint as Rory and Bryson and

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Speaker 3: guys who a long way but just miss a couple

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Speaker 3: more fairways, missing one fairway per round, and here you

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Speaker 3: get twenty five yards past the field. Is actually a

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Speaker 3: really really good formula for playing good high level golf.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, definitely cool to see, and it was also

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Speaker 3: really cool growing up to like see coaches and players

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Speaker 3: start to adopt it. So I think Luke, Donald Duarte, Mollinari,

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Speaker 3: Chris Como, Sean Foley, where a lot of a lot

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Speaker 3: of guys to start to reach out and like see

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Speaker 3: the insights of of what what looking at things from

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Speaker 3: a strokes gain perspective could do. So yeah, really really

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Speaker 3: fun to be involved with the Tangentially as a sixteen

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Speaker 3: year old didn't know anything.

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Speaker 1: Brody, Let's let's fast forward to now and how have

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Speaker 1: you in our team here? Where we've answered some of

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Speaker 1: these questions, like brought that to the club fitting world. Right,

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Speaker 1: So you're going in for a club fitting and you

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Speaker 1: might have these kind of legacy ideas maybe in your head,

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Speaker 1: you know, like like I got to hit it straighter,

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Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta find the middle of the face more.

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Speaker 1: You know, I need to play a shorter driver because

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Speaker 1: that's what the tour players are doing. So, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: just let's double click on that a little bit of

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Speaker 1: how somebody can take some of these concepts and principles,

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Speaker 1: maybe not that they're playing tournament golf in their lives

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Speaker 1: on the line, but they're going have to get fit

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Speaker 1: for a new driver. What are what are some ideas

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Speaker 1: in in in quick math folks can bring to the

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Speaker 1: table there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's a's a fundamental question of maybe

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Speaker 3: a driver fitting is like what's better is it hitting

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Speaker 3: as far as possible or hitting as straight as possible?

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Speaker 3: And you can easily swing to the extremes you can.

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Speaker 3: If you want hit as far as possible, you probably

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Speaker 3: grab the longest blank driver you have, crank the loft

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Speaker 3: down and hopefully hit the one really high launched, low

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Speaker 3: spin nuke and if you want to hit as straight

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Speaker 3: as possible, it's like, okay, let's grab a shorter shaft,

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Speaker 3: let's dial back the swing speed, and I'll try his

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Speaker 3: night fairies as possible. But as of the most things,

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Speaker 3: the answer kind of lies in between there, and so

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Speaker 3: again it's like, how do you how do you break

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Speaker 3: down that trade off? How do you break down that

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Speaker 3: distance versus acuity trade off? And as expected, the the

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Speaker 3: way to look at is from strokes gained and try

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Speaker 3: to see, yeah, what exactly is that distance versus acuracy

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Speaker 3: trade off? And it was leaning on work than my

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Speaker 3: dad did. Of Okay, if you could look at what's

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Speaker 3: the benefit of gaining twenty yards, quantify that in terms

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Speaker 3: of strokes versus what's the how much did it hurt

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Speaker 3: you if you hit it, I don't know, ten feet

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Speaker 3: more offline? And so which we wanted to make it

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Speaker 3: as easy for fitters as possible to use this kind

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Speaker 3: of strokes gained framework to analyze a driver fitting. And

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Speaker 3: so the simple nuggets it's if you hit twenty yards further,

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Speaker 3: it's a PGA Tour pro you are started to play

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Speaker 3: one shot better per round, and so that's huge. That's

435
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,560
Speaker 3: exactly what kind of Bryson did and may Fitzpatrick did

436
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:42,359
Speaker 3: when they went through gaining length. And then the interesting

437
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 3: thing is, though it's even more beneficial for amateur golfers.

438
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 3: And so, like my rough math would be a PGA

439
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,640
Speaker 3: Tour pro from two hundred yards might average like three

440
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 3: point three shots and you bring them down to one

441
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,280
Speaker 3: hundred twenty yards and it's three point zero. So that

442
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,639
Speaker 3: eighty yard shift gained him point three shots. But for

443
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 3: a ninety golfer, he might be moving from four point

444
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,040
Speaker 3: six at two hundred yards down to four point h

445
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,239
Speaker 3: at one twenty, so it's a point six shift, and

446
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,440
Speaker 3: so distance is even more valuable, Like what there's more

447
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,640
Speaker 3: to gain moving an amateur player just twenty yards close

448
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,560
Speaker 3: as a whole every time. And so that's what the

449
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 3: math showed for a ninety golfer, gain twenty yards is

450
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,119
Speaker 3: worth two shots instead of that one point oh for

451
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 3: a PJA Tour golfer. And so you kind of use

452
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,439
Speaker 3: these trayoffs to develop a pretty simple rule for our

453
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 3: fitting department that if you can gain two yards of distance,

454
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 3: that will be offset by one yard decrease in offline

455
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 3: standard deviation. So you're if you're actually in if your

456
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 3: offline dispersion goes up by a yard, that's offset by

457
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,880
Speaker 3: two yards for maybe a scratch golfer, oh I got

458
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,639
Speaker 3: that backwards three yards for a scratch golfer, of distance

459
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 3: offsets one yard of accuracy loss. And then for a

460
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 3: ninety golfer where distance is even more at a premium,

461
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 3: it's you only need two yards offset one yard of

462
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 3: accuracy loss. But the nice thing there is that we

463
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 3: have a really clean rule of thumb that like someone

464
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 3: can doesn't have to go to the extremes. They don't

465
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,639
Speaker 3: have to just maximize distance or maximize the accuracy. They

466
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 3: can say, hey, you gain twenty yards, you only lost

467
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 3: two yards of offline performance. So that's going to be

468
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 3: a clear win for you. And we can have tools

469
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 3: and copilot that we've mentioned a bunch of this podcast

470
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 3: that says, Okay, you're expect to gain on course is

471
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,439
Speaker 3: one point four shots with that new driver. That'll be

472
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 3: a really good tool for you at the end of fitting.

473
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:39,479
Speaker 2: And Chris, do you have those conversations with the fitters,

474
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 2: I mean, is this something you guys are discussing, you know,

475
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 2: kind of throughout the company to help people relay this

476
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 2: information to consumers because I do think you know, like

477
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 2: this year, Marty, Marty not played golf in January and

478
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 2: he has the two driver system in his bag, and

479
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:55,719
Speaker 2: we've talked a lot about on the pod. But I mean,

480
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,120
Speaker 2: it's been one of the biggest changes in my game

481
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 2: I've made in the last probably ten years, is the

482
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 2: is adding a twelve degree driver. Every time I play

483
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 2: golf with somebody to ask about it, they're always very

484
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 2: interested in the link to the shaft and why we

485
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 2: do it. And Marty obviously broke down the numbers, and

486
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:11,400
Speaker 2: you know, he has the math on it. We've talked

487
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:12,959
Speaker 2: about it on the pod. I mean, if you hit

488
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 2: three wood, you know, if you hit three hundred yards,

489
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 2: you hit three wood ninety ninety five percent of the

490
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 2: time off the tee. Why not take a bigger head

491
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 2: and lean on that. That's a simple thing for me

492
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 2: to understand. How do you guys relay this information to

493
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,239
Speaker 2: the fitters where they can simplify it as much as

494
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 2: possible to somebody that's looking at a driver, going, I

495
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,400
Speaker 2: do want to gain ten fifteen yards, But what that's

496
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 2: going what's that going to do in terms of my accuracy?

497
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think that's the magic of I

498
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,640
Speaker 3: guess communicating with math is you have to be able

499
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 3: to understand kind of the deep nuanced science to be

500
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 3: able to come up with new metrics and tools for fitters.

501
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 3: But then the power is then turning into a very

502
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 3: simple story that everyone can understand. And I think even

503
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 3: that example of the of kind of that that driver

504
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 3: the driver baby is like how many different pieces are

505
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 3: are in play on the pink side of Like we

506
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 3: are leveraging our Arcos database of one hundred plus million

507
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 3: shots to understand when people use drivers through wood. We're

508
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:17,879
Speaker 3: leveraging our really cool I mean, that's even like manufacturing

509
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 3: side of things, where we can build a a driver

510
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 3: head the right weight to hit a through wood build

511
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 3: and then we can also do testing. So now the

512
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 3: testing or we ran that test of what happens if

513
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 3: you hit a thriver off the tee versus three off

514
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 3: the ta, and like that's the ultimate proof is like

515
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 3: how much better is it? And that's one of the

516
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 3: more like jaw dropping like clean winds I've ever seen

517
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 3: in a player test, Like the thriver is just dominating

518
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 3: and so and then you can plug it into and

519
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 3: then we had one of the guys in our group,

520
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 3: Max went in. He's like, I want to test out

521
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 3: how does this build compare? And he went into Copilot

522
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 3: and it was like, okay, let let's let's look at

523
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 3: what's my distance gain, what's my accuracy gain. It's like, okay,

524
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 3: it's the or just win the world for a driver.

525
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 3: So kind of all those tools are like married together,

526
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 3: and hopefully Copilot's kind of our avenue for fitters to

527
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 3: get the simplest possible way to communicate to the to

528
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 3: the everyday golfer.

529
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, change so Brody, I'll give him some props here.

530
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 1: He's built all pretty much all the algorithms and logic

531
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: behind pink Co Pilot right, all the fun cool math

532
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: that happens there, and one of the most powerful fun

533
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 1: tools allows you to explore club fitting with the nuance

534
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: from a strokes gain lens if you want to write,

535
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: if the fitter wants too, if the players kind of

536
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 1: into it. Still a little kind of hard concept, I

537
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: think for the everyday golfer to understand I'm going to

538
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: gain two tenths of a shot, what does that mean

539
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 1: to me? If? But you know, we're kind of on

540
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 1: this spectrum of change in an evolution with every every

541
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,159
Speaker 1: day golfer. They're seeing these stats on TV. They're starting

542
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: to understand it more. Now you can go in and

543
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: with Pink co pilot and optimize your driver or your

544
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 1: other clubs for which one's going to be the best

545
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 1: from a strokes gain standpoint. So, and we teach our fitters. Okay,

546
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,360
Speaker 1: we're gonna look at distance differences. We're gonna look at

547
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 1: your offline standard deviation. That's kind of how big your

548
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: left right dispersion is. Right, what does your shot pattern

549
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:11,439
Speaker 1: look like? And there's a way to quantify that on

550
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: a launch monitor. Feed it in and you can help

551
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: and say, hey, compared to your gamer driver, this one's

552
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: gonna be so much better from a strokes gain standpoint.

553
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: Let's try a longer driver versus a shorter length shaft

554
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 1: and do that little ab comparison. So really fun to

555
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: be able to pass this level of nuance which is

556
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: kind of built into the strokes gain concept to the

557
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: everyday golfer through copilot, which has been which has been

558
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: tons of fun.

559
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Brody, I mean you know I think about this.

560
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 2: You mentioned baseball earlier. I mean you think about the

561
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 2: eye rolls that came through the moneyball era right with baseball,

562
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 2: and it's like, oh, we don't need to worry about that.

563
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 2: That didn't make any sense, Like what's their er, what's

564
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 2: their batting average?

565
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: Right? I mean, these are stats that.

566
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 2: Mean something in baseball, and then slowly people started to

567
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 2: understand what it means. I think one thing that golf

568
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,719
Speaker 2: is doing better over the last couple of years is

569
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,479
Speaker 2: trying to explain this stuff. I think at broadcast at

570
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 2: times I try to dive a little deeper into the

571
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 2: strokes gain stuff just to simply explain what I'm talking about,

572
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: because sometimes you hear terms in a sport or in work,

573
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 2: in society and life whatever, but you never really get

574
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 2: explained what it is, and you just kind of take

575
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 2: it for fact. And I think we're getting to a

576
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 2: point now in golf where strokes gained is starting to

577
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 2: make more sense to people at a macro level, which

578
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 2: is huge because for somebody like you, you're leaning so

579
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 2: heavily on it, you want people to understand it because

580
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 2: you know it'll help them in terms of the way

581
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,119
Speaker 2: they play, in the way they think about golf.

582
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 3: It's interesting, like the first thing I did when I

583
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 3: got to ping is we had a competitive data set

584
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,719
Speaker 3: of driver tests that we looked at like different competitors,

585
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 3: how they reformed. And my boss at the time, Eric Henderson,

586
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 3: is like, how would you analyze this data? And I

587
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 3: think he was like kind of winking as head of

588
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 3: like I think he might look at this from a

589
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,199
Speaker 3: strokes gain perspective, But the way the data had been

590
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 3: analyzed was all right, how far did those balls go?

591
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 3: Like how many fairways did you hit? And he's like,

592
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 3: how would you go about this? And I was like, Okay,

593
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 3: I think there might be a way to apply apply

594
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 3: some of the knowledge I have of strokes gain. And

595
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 3: so yeah, it's been it's been cool too to be

596
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 3: able to I mean even even in our vocabulary I

597
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 3: think is as designers engineers, we've we've moved from uh,

598
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 3: maybe stat areas and how far the ball went to

599
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,159
Speaker 3: kind of talking this language of overall performance in it

600
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 3: from a strokes gained lens. So it definitely takes time.

601
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 3: One other thing, what you were talking about baseball, It's

602
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 3: like baseball maybe it was ahead in some respects with moneyball,

603
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 3: but golf has actually been way ahead in terms of

604
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 3: some of their advanced metrics, like we knew about angle

605
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 3: attack and club betspeed tracking. I had more of an

606
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 3: influence kind of on the on the coaching community. They

607
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 3: understood some of these tools way before, like the kind

608
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 3: of baseball analytics they like they're just starting to get

609
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 3: get their head around like angle attack. I feel like

610
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 3: there's some there's some funny things of like TV broadcasters

611
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 3: being like, oh a launch angle swings like a big

612
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 3: concept in baseball, Like they didn't quite have the terminology

613
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 3: down for angle attack. But it's like that's been around

614
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 3: the golf world for h I don't know, ten fifteen

615
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 3: years now.

616
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: That's a really good point Brody's speaking of angle of attack.

617
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: I mean think one of the problems we've solved in

618
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 1: our group, and you were instrumental in is helping understand

619
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: like why golfers. And for me it was always Lee Westwood.

620
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: He hit down on his driver and I was working

621
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: on low spin drivers like the answer I fifteen, I twenty,

622
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: and they never worked for him. They fell out of

623
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: the air, He'd have to change his swing tip back.

624
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 1: Nothing works, So he kept playing the G ten driver,

625
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: which was you know, kind of moderate spinning, moderate slash

626
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: high spinning driver at the time when he was number

627
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: one player in the world, and we could never really

628
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: answer that question of why that was. And you know,

629
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: since then, I think you were a big part of

630
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: doing a bunch of that modeling work to help us

631
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: answer the question. Generate this really useful chart for all

632
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: for some fitters out there that says, hey, if you

633
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: do hit more down you not only can you spin

634
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: it more, but you should to be optimal. So give

635
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: us a little background on how all that research and

636
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: analysis and modeling all came to be.

637
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think it definitely kind of goes back

638
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 3: to my kind of first color projects at PAYING. So

639
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 3: after kind of looking at some of that competitor data

640
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 3: where it's kind of looking at applying strokes gain to

641
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 3: some of our driver data, the next project I actually

642
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 3: worked on was looking at ball flight laws. And so

643
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 3: that's not just the kind of undepending there is. When

644
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 3: you have a club path angle attack and a face angle,

645
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 3: a big question is where's that ball going to launch?

646
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 3: So that's really important for coaches if they're trying to

647
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 3: tell a golfer how to hit a functional drawer fade.

648
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 3: I think a very common piece of teaching was you

649
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 3: want to have the face point where the ball ends

650
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 3: up and the path goes where you want the ball

651
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 3: to start. And that doesn't actually quite match what we

652
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 3: see on the side of things, but it kind of

653
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 3: gets your brain kind of thinking about what where should

654
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 3: that path and face be. And so similarly on the

655
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 3: kind of vertical side of things, it's if you have

656
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 3: an angle attack and then a loft in the club,

657
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 3: a big question is where's the ball going to launch?

658
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 3: And so we have with our focal data a lot

659
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 3: of really good information on how the club is delivered,

660
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 3: what that path is, and where the face is pointed.

661
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 3: And so one of my big projects goes, okay, what

662
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 3: is that ratio? So if you have a path that

663
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 3: is ten degrees right and the face is pointed right

664
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 3: at the target, where will the ball launched? And it's

665
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 3: roughly eighty percent, So the ball would launch two degrees

666
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 3: to the right if your face is aimed right at

667
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 3: the target and your path is ten degrees to the right,

668
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 3: and we end up going through the whole whole club set.

669
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 3: So a driver that numbers actually around eighty five percent,

670
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 3: and then down to wedge that number is down to

671
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 3: sev percent. So that's I mean, one one piece that

672
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 3: kind of ties things together is like Joe Mayo's big

673
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 3: on on ten down on a wedge, and so it's like,

674
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 3: if you're ten down and you want to launch the

675
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:08,719
Speaker 3: ball at thirty degrees, you have to have a you

676
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 3: have a four degree difference between your launch angle and

677
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 3: your angle attack. So what spin loft do you need?

678
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 3: You actually need a sixty degree spin loft. That forty

679
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 3: kind of launch minus single attack number goes into that

680
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 3: sixty loft minus single attack number to get your thirty

681
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 3: degree launch angle. So it's kind of really important fundamental

682
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 3: kind of physics things that that drive how your driver

683
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 3: through wedge is perform. And we were like, okay, we

684
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 3: probably apply us to to understanding that angle attack and

685
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 3: driver launch didition in side of things as well. So

686
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,719
Speaker 3: kind of a similar kind of thought process I'll go

687
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 3: through is what angle attack drives your launchicition on drivers. So,

688
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 3: like a common target that I've heard thrown out is

689
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 3: you want to hit like seventeen launch and seventeen hundred

690
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 3: spin and from a ball flight model perspective, that ball

691
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 3: goes very very far. That's that's basically that's that's where

692
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 3: we would see like the peak of carry distance and

693
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 3: total distance. But we know from PGA tour data that

694
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 3: people are living a lot more in like that ten

695
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 3: to eleven launch and twenty five hundred spin zones. It's

696
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 3: like something's missing a little bit if we're going to

697
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 3: say that seventeen and seventeen hundred goes as far as possible,

698
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 3: but we don't really see that on tour. And so

699
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 3: the kind of key kind of similar to that Lee

700
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 3: West's story is that the key underpaining thing is that

701
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 3: golfers PGA tour golfer's average angle attack is around zero.

702
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 3: So if they want to launch a ball at seventeen degrees,

703
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 3: they if they use this eighty five percent number, they

704
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 3: need to have a loft delivered an impact at twenty degrees,

705
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 3: So that twenty degree loft difference turns into a seventeen

706
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 3: degree launch difference. And the issue with having a twenty

707
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 3: degree kind of spin loft number on a driver is

708
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 3: it's going to spin a tremendous amount, So you're crazy, Yeah,

709
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 3: you experience is gonna be five thousand. Yeah, So like yeah,

710
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 3: it's definitely not the way you don't want a driver

711
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 3: that's launching at seventeen to five thousand spin, and then

712
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 3: on the other side of things like, hey, well what

713
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 3: if we try to get down to seventeen hundred soon

714
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 3: you know it's the knuckleball. It goes pretty far, and

715
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 3: it's okay, probably divide those that loft number by three.

716
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 3: Let's take that twenty degrees of loft down to seven,

717
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 3: and now you're launching it at six degrees, so again

718
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 3: that that ball flight loss knowledge really matters, and it's like, Okay,

719
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 3: we're in a pickle here. You don't really want to

720
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 3: launch it six degrees and seventeen hundred spin. You don't

721
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 3: want launch it seventeen degrees and five thousand spin. There's

722
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,799
Speaker 3: some happy medium in between, and it's like, Okay, this

723
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 3: is probably something that that some modeling can can help

724
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 3: us out with here, and through the power of having

725
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,919
Speaker 3: a ball flight model, having an impact model developed by

726
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 3: Eric Henrickson, you can kind of nicely toggle through all

727
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 3: the different loft options and just plug in, Okay, which

728
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 3: combination of loft and angle attack and club at speed

729
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 3: produces the most carry distance, most total distance. And that's

730
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 3: kind of the kind of thing what starts down this

731
00:34:57,560 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 3: path of trying to develop an oft to launch a

732
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 3: spin chart, and so I might be able to pull

733
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,439
Speaker 3: it up, but there's angle attack on the bottom ball

734
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 3: speed going up like the y axis, and we can

735
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 3: for each those combinations go into an impact model and

736
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 3: figure out the loft that maximizes someone's distance, and there's

737
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 3: some cool trends that show up. I think Marty was

738
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 3: kind of hinting at it. But if you go look

739
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 3: at the angle of attack, that is a really clear

740
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 3: indicator of what your spin rate should be. So if

741
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 3: you're four down, your optimal your optimal spin rate is

742
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 3: three thousand. That's the spineraryates. Then they hit the ball

743
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 3: as long as possible for you, and that's because if

744
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 3: you had less spin than that, your launch angle of

745
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 3: nine degrees goes down to six degrees and that ball

746
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 3: is just going nowhere. And if you had if you

747
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,000
Speaker 3: try to get your launch up from eight or nine

748
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 3: degrees up to twelve, your three thousand spin turns into

749
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 3: four thousand. That ball is also going nowhere. So it's counterintuitive,

750
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 3: but three thousand spin is the right number for someone

751
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 3: who's four down. And then the other side of you

752
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 3: can actually move up into plus four territory. Then you

753
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 3: can get to some nicer sounding spin rate it's of

754
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 3: twenty two hundred or something, and that will help you.

755
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 3: That will be the new optal, so you can move

756
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 3: along that angle attack kind of X access and see

757
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 3: what your target spinarate should be. I think it's pretty

758
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 3: eye opening for golfers.

759
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 1: I think, Shane, what's fun here about what Brody just

760
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: talked about is that it's a lot of numbers, a

761
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 1: lot of angles. I'm always having to jot things down

762
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 1: and do some trigonometry in my head, and that can

763
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: go over a lot of the listeners' heads, no doubt.

764
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: But what's fun is that we turned it into a practical,

765
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: actionable fitting chart in a fitting tool that's helped golfers

766
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,439
Speaker 1: unluck distance right, super fun. It explains Lee Westwood four

767
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: down three thousand spin, number one player in the world.

768
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: It explains Cameron champ one ninety five ball speed. He

769
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: hits down two degrees, and he launches it at like

770
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 1: seven and a half eight, you know, and spins it

771
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,439
Speaker 1: twenty six twenty seven hundred, and that's perfect actually for him.

772
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 1: Or it explains you know, like Bubba Watson. We used

773
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: to is this high straight one. He'd hit up on it,

774
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: He'd hit up like five or six, and he would

775
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: launch it a fifteen to seventeen with you know, seventeen

776
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: nineteen hundred spin when he went to go hit his

777
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 1: high bomb where he straightened out the curve. So this

778
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: chart explained finally we've cracked the code on explaining you

779
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: know why angled attack is super duper important. And again, Brody,

780
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: I think going back to baseball, it's just like a

781
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,479
Speaker 1: brand new thing in baseball. But here we are in golf,

782
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: we've already cracked the code on this.

783
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 2: You know, Brody, I wanted to ask you we are

784
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 2: we are always kind of finding new tools and our bags.

785
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 2: In terms of golf, it typically starts on the pro level.

786
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 2: I mean, I think, you know, we were a few

787
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 2: years ago it felt like everybody on the planet and

788
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 2: professional golf had a crossover. Now it's moved a little

789
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 2: bit more to the lofted wood world. I mean, I've

790
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 2: got a seven one in the bag. I think Marty's

791
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 2: got a seven more in the bag. I got a

792
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 2: nine wood built for me a few months ago. I

793
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 2: haven't put it in the bag yet, but I've messed

794
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 2: around with it, and I like it. I never in

795
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 2: my life I would take a driving iron out of

796
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:03,319
Speaker 2: the bag. That was kind of one of my like,

797
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 2: my go to shot for so long. What's the next thing,

798
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 2: in your opinion that we'll see over the next year

799
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 2: or so in the professional golf world and maybe it'll

800
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 2: move to uh, to the amateur golf world that will

801
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 2: be popular amongst golfers. That's maybe not the most popular

802
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 2: thing right now.

803
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm definitely hoping that it's Thriver

804
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 3: for the for the PGA Tour golf world. I'm trying.

805
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 3: I'm trying to stir up, starve some fitting for myself

806
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 3: to get it in play because I've had some three

807
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 3: months that haven't cooperated in tournaments. So that's definitely on

808
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 3: the top of my mind right now.

809
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 2: Two drivers in the bag from from a lot of

810
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:39,319
Speaker 2: the time. I mean, I like, I mean, Marty did

811
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 2: did Tony? Did Tony do this at Augusta this past year?

812
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: Was that something he used during the tournament?

813
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: Yeah? No, he did it at Augusta. And and what's

814
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: unique about his his experience there and and you know

815
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,960
Speaker 1: better than than me having been around that golf course,

816
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: a lot, and being on the telecast is uh that

817
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: there's some specific holes you also need to draw it,

818
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: which is rare, Which is rare for a PGA Tour event,

819
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 1: you know, where you get to a course where it's

820
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: mandatory at a player of his length not only hit

821
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: it straighter, you're definitely going to hit off the tee

822
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 1: never needs it as a second shot. If you make

823
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: a mistake on yeah, thirteen to fifteen, you are laying

824
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: up there right, because that's how you maximize your strokes

825
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: gained on those particular holes. But yeah, Tony did it.

826
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: But I think what's fun about that concept is that

827
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: not only are we looking at the PGA Tour player

828
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 1: that hits it very far, but Brody tell Shane a

829
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 1: little bit about some of the insights we've had for

830
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: the everyday golfer from the Arcos data on where they

831
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,320
Speaker 1: are on the golf course and how that informs maybe

832
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: some of our set configuration, set design, which is not

833
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: just looking at the super far hitter, but what do

834
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,760
Speaker 1: we see on the opposite end, you know, the players

835
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 1: that hit a little bit shorter.

836
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was gonna say, like a better answer to

837
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 3: where we might be moving in the future is looking

838
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 3: at where do people hit most of their golf shots from.

839
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 3: So I think in our kind of gapping app logic,

840
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 3: it's easy just default too, Okay, Well, even gaps across

841
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 3: the bag. We want to have all of your irons

842
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 3: be I don't know, twelve to fifteen yard gaps. We

843
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 3: have our rule of thumb. Of your seven iron ballspet

844
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 3: divide by ten is your target gap number. But I

845
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 3: think what we can move towards when we have so

846
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 3: much data is figure out, okay, for a particular golf course,

847
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 3: what shots you're going to face. I think PGA tour

848
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 3: pros know this. Okay, if I have a two hundred

849
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 3: and fifty yard part three, it's like I'm going to

850
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 3: need that high loft affair. Would that have a chance

851
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 3: to hold that green? Trying to hit three ron into

852
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,399
Speaker 3: that green is probably almost impossible. And so we can

853
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 3: probably start to provide that solution down to the everyday

854
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 3: golfer of understanding. Okay, you on your home course, you're

855
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 3: hitting a lot of t shots and that will be

856
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 3: your driver. And then maybe you have a ton of

857
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 3: your shots from eighty to one hundred and twenty yards,

858
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 3: and so you might want to have a four wedge

859
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 3: solution or five ledge solution that's really dialed in that range.

860
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 3: I think, I don't know give away Marty's like secret

861
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 3: for twenty twenty five, but he was mentioning he might

862
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 3: go to a five edge setup and try to get

863
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 3: super di although and he has some of these shorter

864
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 3: Arizona courses the summer.

865
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: If you say five five wedges, yeah, And so my

866
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: my analysis on that, Shane is for Arizona Golf.

867
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 3: Here we go on.

868
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 2: Let's says, we gotta get it. This is Marty's twenty

869
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 2: twenty five New Year's resolution. We're gonna get out there

870
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 2: a few months early.

871
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 1: We're going five wedges and it's love Arizona golf, right,

872
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: it's for the uh, you know, the talking stick golf

873
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: courses of the world where I am seventy to one

874
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty five yards on every single approach shot

875
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,720
Speaker 1: on the park totally, totally, and I need tighter gaps.

876
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: And then if I go a different course, I'll I'll

877
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 1: go back to four wedges and mix it up at

878
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: the top end of the back. No problem.

879
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 2: What are we talking If we're talking five wedge set up,

880
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 2: I mean because you're not. I mean, I know famously

881
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 2: Phil did this back in the day. I mean, you're

882
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 2: not the first person to go five wedges, but I'd

883
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 2: say it went three to four and that was the

884
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 2: big jump. And now obviously going four to five, do

885
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 2: you have an idea of what it would look like?

886
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 2: Do you have an idea of what that loft would

887
00:41:58,080 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 2: look like in your bag?

888
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: We haven't finished out, but in my head I want

889
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 1: to have instead of like thirteen or fourteen yard gaps

890
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:08,359
Speaker 1: between wedges, I want to get them to nine or ten. Okay, right,

891
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: So that's really what I want to do, as well

892
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: as I need to improve my skill of being able

893
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: to hit my wedges closer. But yeah, that's a little

894
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 1: sneak preview. I think what Brody's getting at is, let's

895
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 1: get super nuanced into how to build somebody's bag for

896
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: their individual golf course patterns, playing conditions and things of

897
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 1: that nature, right, right, Brody?

898
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, And there definitely were some kind of higher level

899
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 3: of global insights that we got from Arcos data of

900
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,919
Speaker 3: where do people hit their golf shots from And it's

901
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 3: not just a very even distribution from fifty to two

902
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 3: hundred yards that it does tend to clump around one

903
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:44,760
Speaker 3: hundred and twenty five to one hundred and seventy five yards.

904
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 3: An interesting takeaway we had from Arcos Stata was that

905
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,879
Speaker 3: it was almost irrespective of how far hit your driver,

906
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 3: which is maybe people not teeing U from the right tees.

907
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:54,640
Speaker 3: But we looked at like, if you hit it one

908
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 3: hundred and seventy five to two hundred yards of your driver,

909
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 3: how far is your second shot distribution? And then for

910
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 3: a guy who hits at two fifty to two seventy five,

911
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 3: how far is your second shot distribution? And they like

912
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 3: lined up perfectly where all their second shots are around

913
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:09,759
Speaker 3: that one hundred and twenty five two hundred and seventy

914
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 3: five yard range, and we're like, okay, let's get some

915
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 3: more clubs in the bag at that range. That was

916
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 3: kind of our push with the g four to thirty

917
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 3: line to add in kind of that fifty forty five

918
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 3: forty one kind of wedge solution there to get some

919
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 3: more clubs where people are hitting a lot of their

920
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 3: golf shots. And so that's that's the global perspective, But

921
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 3: then there's also maybe the iteration out of the line,

922
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 3: so we can take in someone's own personal arcostata and say, hey,

923
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 3: given how you play golf at your home course, this

924
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,959
Speaker 3: is actually the set that we'd recommend for you and Marty.

925
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,640
Speaker 2: I'm assuming, you know, when you guys dive into this

926
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 2: arco stata, I'm assuming that an extremely high percentage of

927
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 2: golfers play almost one hundred percent of their golf at

928
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,080
Speaker 2: the same golf yeps. I mean, you know, that's yeah,

929
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 2: that's something I'm sure you guys can figure out. And

930
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 2: I you know, like I think about my own golf, right,

931
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 2: and I traveled decent amount for work, and you know,

932
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 2: I get a chance to travel here and there. I'm

933
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,280
Speaker 2: still playing the majority of my golf at my club

934
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 2: that I play at, right, So you want the bag

935
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 2: to make the most sense, like the Thriver at my club.

936
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 2: I've talked about this a lot with my friends. The

937
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 2: Thriver my club, for three holes is a mandatory golf shot,

938
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 2: and it would be a tough shot for me with

939
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 2: three wood, to be frank. So it's important for me

940
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 2: because again, if I'm playing my golf there, why not

941
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:25,319
Speaker 2: have a bag that makes the most sense for the

942
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 2: course I'm playing the most.

943
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, I think that's that's the future. It's super exciting.

944
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 1: I think it's again kind of meets that heuristic Shane

945
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: I like to have and we actually talked about on

946
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 1: the a little bit earlier in our conversation, which is

947
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 1: the tools that the tour player has access to. We

948
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: want to try to build that and make it available

949
00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:45,719
Speaker 1: to the everyday golfer. And it usually happens about a

950
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 1: decade later, Like it was probably about ten years ago

951
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,280
Speaker 1: Chris was was mapping out bunkers on on on Google

952
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: Earth right, and now now it's all automated and applified

953
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: and you know, and things of that nature. So getting

954
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 1: being able to build somebody's bag to how they play golf,

955
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 1: how much do they travel, their specific things. I go

956
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 1: back to our conversation we had with Sawhith where he

957
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 1: was playing two clubs that went the same distance, one

958
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,959
Speaker 1: went higher and went lower. That's a way to gap

959
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 1: your bag. You can gapping is not only yardage. You

960
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 1: can have trajectory gapping right, vertical gapping. It's another way

961
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 1: to kind of think about it.

962
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, Brody, can you watch golf and not think about data?

963
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 2: Is it possible for you to just sit down on

964
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 2: a Saturday afternoon and not. It's like I struggle with

965
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 2: this in terms of the like the production broadcasting side right,

966
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 2: because I've been involved in it for a number of years.

967
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 2: As I watch golf and on honestly all the sports,

968
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:42,359
Speaker 2: I find myself noticing things right that would make sense

969
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 2: in my industry. Do you do the same thing when

970
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 2: you're just sitting around to casually watch, you know, the

971
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: back nine on Sunday of a golf tournament.

972
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was thinking that, Like you'd love to get

973
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 3: invested in a major and you're like, oh man, that's

974
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,800
Speaker 3: super fun to watch. Maybe US Open briceless fields of pressure,

975
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 3: like you just get immersed in that. And then I

976
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 3: was like, well, in my hands, like man, there should

977
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 3: be a really cool like strokes gained pressure stat that

978
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,439
Speaker 3: you come up with. So it doesn't take it doesn't

979
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 3: take much for like the wheels to start spinning, so yeah,

980
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 3: I probably don't get to to remove for it. You

981
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 3: see someone miss of ten foot and you're like, A,

982
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 3: that's point four shots. That's tough.

983
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 1: I love that. I love that.

984
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 2: You're like not, you're like jotting it down point four.

985
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 2: There you go, he's out.

986
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: He's out.

987
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:23,680
Speaker 2: Should have should have stole second.

988
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.

989
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, just yeah, you gotta gotta get it better, better

990
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 3: than that.

991
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:29,839
Speaker 1: Shane, I got a fun one. Brody helped me with you.

992
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,479
Speaker 1: You actually remember this, you you helped cover this event.

993
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: It was the Top Golf Tour Championship. So me and

994
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: me and my buddy qualified. Who are you playing with?

995
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: Who'd you play with? Martin? My friend Chris O'Connor, one

996
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: of my best that's striker. Uh you know, played at

997
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,399
Speaker 1: Arizona State. Walked on when and real quick.

998
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 2: For people that don't have any idea what this was,

999
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 2: this was a a two man golf tournament at Top Golf.

1000
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 2: And if you qualified, I think if you were one

1001
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 2: of the top two teams that all the top golfs

1002
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 2: around the country, you went to Vegas, YEP to to

1003
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 2: play in this in the Top Golf Tour Championship that

1004
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 2: we actually shot and cut together and put it up

1005
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 2: on YouTube. And I'm sure they're still out on YouTube

1006
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 2: to this day.

1007
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah, it was actually the top one team. So

1008
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,839
Speaker 1: we was only one team from your local top Golf.

1009
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 1: So me and my buddy qualified two years in a row,

1010
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,399
Speaker 1: and so had I had Brody. So we looked at

1011
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: the top. The layout of the top golf in Las

1012
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 1: Vegas was different than the one in Scottsdale where the

1013
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: targets are how big they were the end of the range,

1014
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: And so I knew the scoring and I was like, hey, Brody,

1015
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: I didn't know the right strategy. Should I go like

1016
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: try to make it all in all the short targets

1017
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: a lot of the time, or should we take more

1018
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: risk and go to the end ones and maybe run

1019
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: the risk and my dispersion wouldn't be as good. So

1020
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: I was like, hey, Brody, look at my data. Tell

1021
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 1: me what to do. So Chris tell Shane about how

1022
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 1: that how that little analysis.

1023
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 3: Went yeah, and like immediately triggered my kind of golf

1024
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 3: metrics thirteen year old days because I was on Google

1025
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 3: Earth trying to figure out how wide every target was.

1026
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 3: I literally was like or functioning Google Earth, You're like, Okay,

1027
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 3: that argaet is ten yards? Why that one's fifteen, that

1028
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 3: one's twenty. And then it was like, oh, well, we

1029
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 3: have player test data from Marty hitting pitching wedges seven irons,

1030
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,359
Speaker 3: four irons. That's kind of what the different distances were.

1031
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 3: And so I was like, Okay, I can take Mary's

1032
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 3: player test data, map it on to those different targets,

1033
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:21,280
Speaker 3: and I can figure out, like what his expected points

1034
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 3: are if he only hits pitching wedges or only hits

1035
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 3: seven irons, only hits four irons. And I gave him recommendation.

1036
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 3: I was like, hey, Marty, I think the second target

1037
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,399
Speaker 3: is the way to go. That looks like your highest

1038
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 3: fected points. And I also gave him like what's your

1039
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 3: range of outcomes, like if you want to get aggressive

1040
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:38,799
Speaker 3: or you need to get a ton of points to

1041
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 3: this set, like which one has the highest variance, So

1042
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 3: trying to get pretty nuanced. But then then I don't know,

1043
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 3: Marty can probably tell us. But the funny part to

1044
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 3: me about the story is I was like, pretty proud

1045
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 3: I did analysis for what Mary's stras should be. Maybe

1046
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,320
Speaker 3: questionable to do it on work time. That's a different

1047
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 3: story also, And then Marty goes to Top Golf and

1048
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 3: completely throws out the entire analysis.

1049
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,480
Speaker 1: We started with a couple of things. Shane, it was

1050
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: super windy, super windy, I remember that, yeah, And and

1051
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:12,640
Speaker 1: actually the terrain there on the Vegas Top Golf is

1052
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 1: not flat, so everyone kept kind of the winds off

1053
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: the left, hitting these slicy foreurns over to the right,

1054
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 1: they'd hit this bank and it'd roll back in and

1055
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: get in the target for super high points. So I

1056
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, we didn't capture that in the analysis.

1057
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:28,920
Speaker 1: Nothing wrong with the analysis, but you.

1058
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:30,720
Speaker 2: Know, you know what, next year we should have flown

1059
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 2: Brody out like the space I got it all done.

1060
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 1: So that's so fun in the semi finals.

1061
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 3: I think you always have to be like, what could

1062
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 3: be wrong with your analysis when you're doing it, And

1063
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,880
Speaker 3: I was like, I'll just treating everything like it's I

1064
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 3: don't know, like wherever it carries is where it goes.

1065
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 3: And I kind knew in the back of my head

1066
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 3: like balls can definitely bounce in and I was like,

1067
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 3: I don't know if I can capture that very well.

1068
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 3: But I ended up being like the reason why he

1069
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 3: ended up changing the strategy because he could aim for

1070
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 3: the far target. If it missed it, it bounce into

1071
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 3: the back wall. And it's like, all right, yeah, pretty good.

1072
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 3: Yeah that's better than I could have dreamed up.

1073
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: We needed the whole three D contour out.

1074
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 3: The yeah, yeah, weight model bouncing. We I messed up.

1075
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it was fun, mart Marty.

1076
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,759
Speaker 2: There's two guys listening to this right now that qualified

1077
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 2: like out of Myrtle Beach who are probably drinking like

1078
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 2: Miller lights the whole time going we shouldn't have flown

1079
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 2: in Vegas. This guy's got this guy handalyzing the targets

1080
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 2: and got guys, you know, the smartest guys in the

1081
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:26,919
Speaker 2: room figured it out. Maybe I was in the wrong

1082
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 2: I was in the wrong fight.

1083
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,480
Speaker 1: My whole data science team behind me there. You know,

1084
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 1: still didn't get it done. You still got to hit

1085
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:33,440
Speaker 1: the shops.

1086
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 2: It was like it was like fifty k.

1087
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: I think it hurts man.

1088
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 3: I was over her a five percent. Coaches, I was,

1089
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 3: I was pushing.

1090
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 2: You know what, you got to negotiate on the front

1091
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 2: and this is the same thing. And like your dad,

1092
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 2: you had to get somebody in there to negotiate on

1093
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 2: the front end. It's actually two dollars an hour, Dad,

1094
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 2: That's what we're gonna do. Marty, got anything else for

1095
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:53,799
Speaker 2: Brody before we before we let him get back to work.

1096
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: No, yeah, I think for the those listening out there

1097
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 1: with youngsters just going into college or high school and

1098
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,879
Speaker 1: they're like, hey, how can I use math? And use

1099
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: it to apply it in sports. I mean, I think

1100
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: what's fun about Brody is like the real life example

1101
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 1: has made an enormous impact on the industry, combining you know, math, modeling,

1102
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: physics skills and really helping out a lot of golfers

1103
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 1: play better golf and improve clubfitters out there as well.

1104
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: So I just think it's very fun and exciting to

1105
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: have Brody here on her team and you know, kind

1106
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 1: of embody that combination of skills and how you can

1107
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,359
Speaker 1: apply them in the golf industry. So, Brody, thanks for

1108
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: thanks for being on the pod.

1109
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 3: Brother Yeah, thank you so much, Marty, thanks so much.

1110
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 2: Sean, Absolutely that is Chris Brody. This is the Ping

1111
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:42,280
Speaker 2: Proving Grounds Podcast.