1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: What's episode you put Angel Lagee. I'm Angel Leagee, and 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: you know it's a Wealth Wednesday. So I have my 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: Wealth Wednesday partner Stacy Tisdale here. 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 2: Always honored to be with my buddy Angelaee. Happy Wealth Wednesday, everybody, 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 2: And this week we are bringing attention to something that 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 2: a lot of you probably know about but don't even 7 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 2: know you know about, called financial abuse, and we're shining 8 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 2: a special spotlight on it because it's Domestic Violence Awareness 9 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 2: Month and ninety nine percent of domestic violence cases start 10 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 2: in financial abuse and most of us don't even know 11 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 2: what it is. So we are really excited to have 12 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 2: Kim Pentago with us today. And Kim is the director 13 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 2: of policy at the National Network to End Domestic Violence, 14 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 2: actually senior director of Economic Justice. Yeah, that's what I meant. 15 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: That's right. 16 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 3: Policy work. 17 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: Yes, the senior director of Economic Justice for the National 18 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: Network to End Domestic Violence. Thank you so much for 19 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: joining us, you know, doing Wealth Wednesday. This was the 20 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: first time I even knew about financial abuse. So can 21 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 1: we define what is financial abuse? 22 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 3: Great question? So I think it's important to recognize what 23 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 3: I'm here to talk about is financial abuse within the 24 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 3: context of domestic violence. Okay. So domestic violence first and 25 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 3: foremost is a pattern of coursive behavior us to intimidate 26 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 3: and threaten a current or former partner, and financial abuse 27 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 3: is one of those tactics used within the context of 28 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 3: domestic violence. Right, So you can have sort of bad 29 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 3: behavior that is financial abuse, but not within the context 30 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 3: of domestic violence. Okay, okay, So that that pattern of 31 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 3: coursive behavior is critical when you talk about domestic violence. 32 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 3: So what it looks like in that context is it 33 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 3: can be everywhere from stealing money out of my wallet 34 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 3: to taking my credit card and charging up a line 35 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 3: of credit I don't know about, or taking out a 36 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 3: new line of credit that I'm unaware of, or taking 37 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 3: not paying bills and lying about that. So it can 38 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 3: be it can run the gamut of what that looks. 39 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: Like, or maybe even getting me to co sign something 40 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: for you and then faulting on that and now I'm responsible. 41 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 3: Absolutely putting all the credit in my name, or giving 42 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 3: me no credit. It can it can look like all 43 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 3: kinds of ways for different folks, depends on their individual circumstance. 44 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 2: You've even told me examples of someone messing up your 45 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 2: job right, So. 46 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 3: If you call the time at my workplace and get 47 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 3: me fired. 48 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,399 Speaker 2: Or I have somebody to try to do that to me. Yeah, 49 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 2: and people have experienced financial abuse and they don't know 50 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: what it is. 51 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 3: Right, So if I don't have access to my own funds, 52 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 3: then I'm further trapped in that relationship. The other thing 53 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 3: to remember is that, let's say decide I want to 54 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 3: leave my relationship because it's not safe for me. It's 55 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 3: no longer serving me and my children, So I want 56 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 3: to leave. I need finances to do that. Yes, I 57 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 3: just don't leave and go find housing. It's very expensive, 58 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 3: as you can imagine, particularly here, but most places housing 59 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 3: is a issue, and so leaving's not easy leaving, particularly 60 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 3: for women living in poverty, leaving often looks like doubling 61 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 3: up with friends or family. 62 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 2: Right. 63 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:53,160 Speaker 1: And then when you have children, knowing that you have 64 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: to take your children to a shelter if you have 65 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,239 Speaker 1: no place to go, sometimes you're thinking about them because 66 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: you don't want to put your children in a situation, 67 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: but you're not going to leave them behind. 68 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 3: Yeah, we'ming over my car, so i'm'a stay in my 69 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 3: car for a couple of nights. How often can I 70 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 3: stay in my car a couple nights and send my 71 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 3: kids to school in the same clothes for the schools 72 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 3: now concerned about my children, and so leaving doesn't look 73 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 3: easy or simple, And so finances play a huge piece 74 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 3: in that. 75 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: It's also interesting in those low cases of low income women, 76 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 2: you're thinking about the safety of your children and all people. 77 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 2: You know, the number one reason people stay in these 78 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 2: financially abusive relationships is because of children. And also talk 79 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 2: about the subtle aspects. I know a lot of friends, 80 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 2: for example, who have stayed in very emotionally unhealthy relationships 81 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 2: and said that they're doing it for the sake of 82 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 2: their children. And I was reading a story about a 83 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 2: woman who was in that situation and she just said 84 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: to heck with it, and she left and she did 85 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 2: what she didn't want to do. She had to move 86 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 2: her kids, who had a very nice lifestyle, into an apartment, 87 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: and her kids were so much happier. So when people 88 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 2: get to that point where they say I'm staying in 89 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 2: unhealthy relationships for the children's sake, it's not always that 90 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: great for the children. 91 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 3: I think, yes, I think it's important that we contextualize 92 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 3: what this looks like. For many survivors of domestic violence, 93 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 3: lethality increases by seven times. When a survivor makes an 94 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 3: active independence like leaving, like getting a job, like telling 95 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 3: a friend, or taking a new line of credit out 96 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 3: or whatever that looks like. Whatever that active independent is, 97 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 3: that risk of dying at your partner's hands increases by 98 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 3: seven times because it's the center of domestic violence is 99 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 3: power control. So when you've done something that sort of 100 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 3: challenges that power control, then you see physical and sexual 101 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 3: violence be employed. And so what we may not always 102 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 3: recognize as helpers and people that love survivors is that 103 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 3: they know their safety best, which is counterintuitive. You're being 104 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 3: heard believe what I don't. What you don't realize is 105 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 3: that when I leave, I can no longer kind of 106 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 3: keep tabs on knowing where my safety is at all times. 107 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 3: So leaving can be really dangerous for survivors. Right at 108 00:04:58,480 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 3: the same time, we know that when we can do 109 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 3: safely in a planful way, helping folks get a financial 110 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 3: stash of money set aside, helping them find safe housing, 111 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 3: all of those things, we know their ability to leave 112 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 3: is more successful. Their ability to do that lasts longer 113 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 3: and in the end, kids tend to be much much happier. 114 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've seen people have to leave in the middle 115 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: of the night, but you have to have everything set up, 116 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: like you said, and have a secure place to go, 117 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: and sometimes, you know, you really have to find a 118 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: place where they don't know where you're going until you 119 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: can get everything secure for yourself. And that's not an 120 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: easy thing to have to do. I remember having to 121 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: be in court one day. I had a whole other 122 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 1: situation going on, but hearing some it was family court 123 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: and hearing some of these women's stories who were talking about, 124 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: you know, the abuse that they had to go through, 125 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: and seeing women in court with their kids trying to 126 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: get restraining orders and dealing with trying to leave somebody 127 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: who was abusive to them, but also have nowhere to 128 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: go because a lot of times, especially for women, when 129 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 1: maybe you've had to stop working because you've had children, 130 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: and then this person is the primary caretaker financially, but 131 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: you're holding down the household for a period of time. 132 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 2: It's not an easy thing to. 133 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 1: Be able to do it. Sometimes women can feel like 134 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: they're being selfish if they're not sacrificing and staying in 135 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: a situation because they want to make sure people get scared. 136 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: Is he going to still financially take care of the kids? 137 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: Do I have to take the kids out of school. 138 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: It's a lot of things that go on when it's 139 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: time to leave. 140 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 3: Well, I think the idea of also being able to 141 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 3: really leave and disappear with your kids is not realistic. Yeah, 142 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 3: that is still a thing children, absolutely, So you have 143 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 3: at some point you have to figure out how to 144 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 3: manage your safety, your children's safety, and still hopefully co 145 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 3: parenting on some level, which is really challenging. When you're 146 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 3: working with somebody who's been historically abusive and unsafe to 147 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 3: you and your kids, you still required to figure out 148 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 3: how to manage that. 149 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about some solutions, right and what you've 150 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: been doing, because we see what the problems are. But 151 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: I love the fact that you actually have programs implemented 152 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:00,679 Speaker 1: to help people. 153 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. So we've really been lucky to have partner with 154 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 3: the All State Foundation for almost two twenty years now, 155 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 3: which is remarkable. If anybody's done that for profit work 156 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 3: and work foundations, they tend to find the next shiny 157 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 3: thing pretty quickly, but they've really stuck with us in 158 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 3: this and they've really created a foothold in helping to 159 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 3: end balance against women, specifically addressing financial empowerment issues. And 160 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 3: so we co authored a financial literacy curriculum that is 161 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 3: available online for free for anybody to access. It's a 162 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 3: very traditional financial literacy curriculum and that we talk about 163 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 3: budgeting and loans and how credit works and all that 164 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 3: good stuff, but then we also address how to do 165 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 3: safety planning within the context of domestic violence. 166 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 2: It's wild. I started covering a story like ten years ago, 167 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 2: and that's what caught my attention. You're looking at their 168 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 2: financial literacy curriculum and it's telling you, Okay, here's how 169 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 2: you hide money, here's how you do this. It's very 170 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 2: that's what you've got to do right. 171 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 3: And it's a challenge because I think we talk about 172 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 3: what does a healthy financial relationship look like within partnership, 173 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 3: and to stay safe in an abusive relationship, you do 174 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 3: the exact opposite. In a healthy relationship, we're going to 175 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 3: negotiate all the things. We're gonna have disagreements, but we're 176 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 3: gonna come to an agreement. We're gonna share all the things. 177 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 3: In an abusive relationship, I'm gonna hide everything, I'm gonna 178 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 3: squirrel things away. I'm not going to tell you what 179 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 3: I'm up to because I have to stay safe and 180 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 3: I'm creating that ghostache. So's it's counterintuitive. 181 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 2: Domestic violence. And also what's interesting, you know, financial abuse 182 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 2: is prevalent in about ninety nine percent of that what 183 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 2: was it? I saw once? Only seven percent of Americans 184 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 2: know what financial abuse is, which is very surprising. But 185 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,599 Speaker 2: also you bring us to the importance of financial independence 186 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 2: within relationships. We talk about that a lot like you 187 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 2: can conduct yourself differently in a relationship if you're financially independent, 188 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 2: and that's hard for especially women or men who stay 189 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 2: home and the other person's the breadwinner. Well, how do 190 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 2: I get financially independent? I don't know. If it was 191 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 2: Wendy Williams, it was the funniest thing she or another 192 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 2: morning show ask how many people would stay married if 193 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 2: I gave you a million dollars or how many people 194 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 2: would leave their marriage if I gave you a million dollars? 195 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 2: And like every woman in the audience. 196 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: Has famously told me, I wish I had a lot 197 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: of money so I could uh, so I could choose 198 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: who I want to date. Yeah, And she really said that, 199 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: and I was like, that's a wild thing to have 200 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 1: to say. She was like, if I had money, I 201 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: would date who I went who. 202 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 3: I like. 203 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 2: That's sad to talk about finance for people listening the 204 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 2: importance of financial independence. 205 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 3: Well, I mean for when I think about my own 206 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 3: personal circumstances. I consider myself very middle income. Right, so 207 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 3: if I fly home tonight, hopefully I can fly home tonight, 208 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 3: and right I get home, and if my home is 209 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 3: unsafe to me because of somebody living in my home 210 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 3: with me, I can't get into a gastup car that 211 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 3: feels pretty reliable. I can stay across town in a 212 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 3: hotel feels very safe to me. If I had to, 213 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 3: I could buy a plane ticket last minute for me 214 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 3: and my children and go fly somewhere if I needed 215 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 3: to to seek, say safety, when I am living in 216 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 3: poverty and I need to seek safety, that looks really different, right, 217 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 3: And so I may be staying in a car overnight, 218 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 3: I may be staying in a hotel it doesn't feel safe, 219 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 3: or doubling up with friends on a couch. My kid's 220 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 3: eighteen years old. That's not comfortable for anybody. And so 221 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 3: my ability to navigate and negotiate my safety looks really different. 222 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 3: I'm also navigating poverty, so I want to work towards 223 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 3: how to scroll away that fund, like any additional money 224 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 3: that comes in the door, to put that into an account. 225 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 3: This just mind that no one knows about. Start to 226 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 3: create my own line of credit, this just mine, but 227 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 3: to start to take those financial steps. 228 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: And financial abuse also does happen to men and members 229 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: of the LGBTQ community, So can we talk about how 230 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: that plays out as well? 231 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 3: For sure? And I think it's important again to remember 232 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 3: that when we talk, when I'm talking about financial abuse, 233 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 3: I'm talking with the classics a domestic violence absolutely, So 234 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 3: we certainly know domestic violence does happen to men. What 235 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 3: we do know those happens at a different percentage. We 236 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 3: know that it happens much higher percentage of it happening 237 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 3: to women as the victims men as the perpetrators. Not 238 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 3: always the case. And again it's that differentially between bad behavior. 239 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 3: There is no doubt that women use illegal violence, unacceptable, 240 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 3: should be held accountable all those things. That is not 241 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 3: always what we call domestic violence. Domestic violence is that pattern, 242 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 3: of course, your behaviors to intimidate and threaten a corona 243 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 3: formal partner. That really puts that person a place of fear. Okay, 244 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 3: so fear really is critical. Again, it doesn't mean that 245 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 3: women don't commit terrible illegal acts should be held accountable. 246 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 3: It is hard to put for women to put them 247 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 3: with partners in a place of fear. Doesn't mean it 248 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 3: doesn't happen. Certainly, we know it happens in same sex relationships. 249 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 3: Really similar statistics to women being victims of male violence. 250 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 3: But that's really the exception and not the norm. Doesn't 251 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 3: mean we don't provide services to men, absolutely, But what 252 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 3: I don't want to do is create and accept sort 253 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 3: of a false narrative. It's just not having the same rate. Again, 254 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 3: it certainly does happen. I do think when it is occurring, 255 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 3: it is much harder for men to talk about. 256 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 2: Right, because we don't take it as seriously. 257 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 3: I think men have historically been the leaders of families 258 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 3: financially in lots of ways, and so it is much 259 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 3: much harder to talk about. There is no doubt. But 260 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 3: we can't say we want equity and therefore everything's equal, 261 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 3: because it's not demand equity. But I'm not saying everything's 262 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 3: the same, So I don't know if that helps. 263 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,839 Speaker 2: It does, And with your expertise, of course, it's in 264 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 2: domestic violence, with your expertise and financial abuse. Every time 265 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 2: I talk about this topic, I do get a lot 266 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 2: of feedback from men saying, hey, my girlfriend runs up 267 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: my credit cards to the max. 268 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 3: Terrible behavior. 269 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 2: You know, all of these different things. Where is the 270 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 2: line just even if someone we know financial abuse will 271 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 2: likely amp up into domestic violence. But what are some 272 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 2: of the tips you can give people? Okay? Is this 273 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 2: bad behavior? Is this something I should be concerned about? 274 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 3: I think for the survivors of but the folks who 275 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 3: are being victimized by it, it is fear. Are you 276 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 3: living in fear of this person? Do you fear that 277 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 3: if I challenge them, I could be hurt? You know? 278 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 3: That really is what most survivors of domestic balance fear, 279 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 3: whether they have ever been hit or not, they know 280 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 3: it's always on the table, It's always a possibility, and 281 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 3: so that's often what keeps folks from leaving, is that 282 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,559 Speaker 3: fear of being ramped up to that place where I'm 283 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 3: going to get hurt or hit or harmed in some way. 284 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 3: So I think that's a differentiation. Again, I'm not saying 285 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 3: that bad behavior is acceptable and not considered abusive and unacceptable, 286 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 3: but it is not necessarily always an advocates definition of 287 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 3: domestic bounce. So I think you also have you have 288 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 3: an advocate definition of domestic bounce, which is what I do, 289 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 3: but you also have a legal definition of domestic bounce, 290 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 3: which is also different because much of what I considered 291 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 3: domestic bounce is not legally is not illegal. However, there 292 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 3: may be folks that live together that hurt each other 293 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 3: but may may not be an advocate definition, but is illegal. 294 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 3: So it does require some nuance, right, It does require 295 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 3: that we have to unpack some things and look at 296 00:13:58,480 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 3: it really critically. 297 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 2: Eagle is I mean when you go into that space. 298 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 2: I was in a financially abusive situation as much as 299 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 2: I know about it, and that's what it can happen 300 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 2: to anyone. Sure, and this person stole from me. I 301 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 2: tried to extort money, blackmail, tried to ruin my relationship 302 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 2: with my clients, took down my website whole nine yards, 303 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 2: and just by the nature of their personality, they ended 304 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 2: up getting kicked out of the United States. For a 305 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 2: three year period. So I had all the police reports 306 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: and everything that I needed. But when I went to 307 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 2: the police and said, can I also get a restraining 308 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 2: order because that three years is coming up? They said, 309 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 2: when he touches you, when he contacts and I was 310 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 2: like what, I'm like, I'm the restraining orders to prevent that. 311 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 3: No, there has to have been a history of it 312 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 3: to show that that's a possibility or a threat of it. 313 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 2: So a lot of women in these situations don't feel 314 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 2: like the courts have the the legal system has their backs. 315 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: It's really tough because it's like, do I have to 316 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: wait until I could get killed before something you know 317 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: can happen? Especially people can leave you messages, they can 318 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: pop up places and do things like that, and a 319 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: lot of times it's really hard to legally get a 320 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: restraining order. 321 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 3: Well. 322 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 2: I think. 323 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 3: Also what's interesting is that if you many states do 324 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 3: what they call fatality views, and they find that most 325 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 3: victims of domestic bounce who are killed by their former 326 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 3: partner there some sort of restraining order have recently been fired. 327 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 3: That's very common. They made that active independence to try 328 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 3: to protect themselves, which amped it up in their abuser's 329 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 3: mind or their harm doer's mind, and then we saw this, 330 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 3: you know, very tragic form of domestic violence occur. 331 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: Now, if somebody's listening right now and they're like, listen, 332 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: this is making me want to act on the situation 333 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: that I'm in, In a situation that is physically abusive, 334 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: a domestic violence situation, and financially abusive as well. What 335 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: are some of the steps that you would tell them 336 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: to take? 337 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 3: First and foremost, if you're really concerned about your safety, 338 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 3: please call the Domestic Bolence Hotline, and they can also 339 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 3: go online the DV Hotline. They've got great resources. They 340 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 3: can get you in touch with a local domestic bolence 341 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 3: advocate or shelter program in your area. But if you're 342 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 3: not number, I don't have an off hand. 343 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: We might have a hand reach out and while you're 344 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: looking for that. And I just also want to tell 345 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: people because I've had people call up here that are 346 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: in situations and sometimes they're very very reluctant, especially in 347 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: our community, to want to do that and get somebody 348 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: arrested or potentially you know, somebody who you have children 349 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: with to put them away, because sometimes people don't want 350 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: to take those steps, but remember that he's not thinking 351 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: about that when he's putting his hands on you. So 352 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: why are you protecting somebody who is doing things to 353 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: you that shows that they don't love you and that 354 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: they don't protect you. 355 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 3: I also just but I also want to just honor 356 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 3: survivors journey and that they know their safety best. Like 357 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 3: they they to give survivors autonomy in deciding what it's 358 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 3: going to be safest for them at the time. So 359 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 3: maybe at this moment they know today's not the best 360 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 3: day for me to reach out for safety, but tomorrow 361 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 3: when they're at work or they're gone for the weekend 362 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 3: or whatever, to make to be planful in. 363 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: That right because I know in our community we do 364 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: not like to involve cops and things. It makes us, 365 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: you know, we feel like I'm not calling the cops 366 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:16,919 Speaker 1: on anybody, no matter what happens, And so I just 367 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: want to make sure that people understand that too, Like, 368 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: don't feel bad about that aspect of it, because we 369 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: can be really reluctant, like that's the last resort. 370 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 2: We don't there's a lack. 371 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 3: Of trust there, absolutely, But I also know that when 372 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 3: we call enforcement, that's always that's not always an answer either. Yeah, 373 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 3: it's interested. 374 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 375 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 3: You may have just now brought people into your world 376 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 3: that has now made it more dangerous for you because 377 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 3: your partner says that you call the cops, and now 378 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 3: you're really in trouble and the cops you know. So 379 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 3: there's challenge, so many things that you have to think about. 380 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 3: Some things that you can think about is if you're 381 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 3: immediately in aage, you call the hotline, but also start 382 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,719 Speaker 3: scrolling away money, start creating that ghostash and whatever that 383 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 3: looks like. We've had survivors save one and five dollars 384 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 3: bills wherever they can. We've had them roll them up 385 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 3: in the bottom of curtain, the hems of your curtains. 386 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 3: We've had them put them in soles of shoes, We've 387 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 3: had them being used tampon applicators. I mean, they've stashed 388 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 3: it anywhere. But also you can do your Venmo account. 389 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 3: You know, if friends are family, you have a side hustle, 390 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 3: send you money on Venmo or PayPal, keep it in 391 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 3: that account. You don't have to transfer it to a 392 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 3: bank account right away. So just be really creative about 393 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 3: how you're stashing money away, how you're coming up with 394 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 3: that gofund. 395 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 2: And if you feel unsafe, you call one eight hundred 396 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 2: seventy nine to nine safe. And the curriculum is incredible, 397 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 2: the Purple Porst curriculum. Can you talk a lot of 398 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 2: people out here are like, hmm, maybe my relationship. You know, 399 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 2: the financial part isn't healthy for a lot of women 400 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: this lands and a lot of victims this lands and credit, yes, definitely. 401 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 3: So we've had lots of survivors come through and they 402 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 3: want to They've gone through the shelter program or whatever, 403 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 3: and they're ready to get on their own and start 404 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 3: their own housing and how and credit is such a 405 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 3: huge challenge. They've got their their credit's been ruined because 406 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 3: of their harm to or because of the extreme poverty, 407 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 3: and they're not able to get new housing or buy 408 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 3: a car, to get to childcare and jobs and all 409 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 3: those things. And so we see credit being ruined. So 410 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 3: we started the Independence Project, which is a no feed, 411 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 3: no credit, building micro loan for survivors. It's a one 412 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 3: hundred dollars, no fee, no interest loan. They pay it 413 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 3: back ten dollars a month and every month they make 414 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 3: their payment, we report it to the three credit bureaus. 415 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 3: Oh that's great. 416 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, we talk about how people access that. 417 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you can go to our website. You can 418 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,959 Speaker 3: can type in economic Justice or Independence project on our 419 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 3: website NNEDV dot org and you can make applications. Survivors 420 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 3: apply on their own. They have to have worked with 421 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 3: the Domestic Ballence Advocate at least three times, just so 422 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 3: we know folks are victims of domestic violence. That's are 423 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 3: we tell our funders who the funds are going to, 424 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 3: and that's how you make application. 425 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: Now, if we're in a situation where we have a 426 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 1: friend who we want to be supportive of, who we 427 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 1: know is going through this, what would you recommend are 428 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: the steps that a person can take because sometimes you 429 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: feel like I want to help my friend, but she's 430 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 1: just not listening. 431 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 3: Perfect question, because I think what we tend to do 432 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 3: is really strong women. I'm you know, two three in 433 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 3: this room right now. The instinct is to say, I'd 434 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:10,680 Speaker 3: never let a man do that. I never let somebody 435 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 3: put hands on me. 436 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 2: Right. 437 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 3: But what you've told me, because I'm going home and 438 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 3: I'm not safe, what you just told me is I'm stupid. 439 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 3: You've got to figure it out, and I don't. I 440 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:20,959 Speaker 3: haven't got to figure it out, right, So I think 441 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 3: what we can do is strong women to support other 442 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 3: strong women is to just say, I'm worried about you, 443 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,159 Speaker 3: I'm scared for you, and I'm here for you, and 444 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 3: you let me know what you need from me on 445 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 3: this journey and I'll be there absolutely, absolutely, So you 446 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 3: let me know, you let me know how I support you, 447 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 3: and I'm not here with judgment whatever that process looks like. 448 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 3: So I think that's one of the best things we 449 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 3: can do to help each other out, all right. 450 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: I think that's important to understand because sometimes we can 451 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: know someone's situation and not know how to help and 452 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,399 Speaker 1: not want to pass judgment on them, but try to 453 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,920 Speaker 1: make sure because you would feel terrible like if. 454 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,040 Speaker 2: You're not letting them know. So okayat question. 455 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 3: I think I think also just just rhyme. Let people 456 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 3: know you don't deserve this, right right right, I'm sad 457 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 3: for you, you don't deserve this, and I'm here for you. 458 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:11,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I just think when you look at some 459 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 1: of these numbers, and I know Stacey earlier you ran 460 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: down some of the statistics, but I just want to 461 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,200 Speaker 1: make sure we do that again so people can really 462 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 1: understand how serious and widespread domestic violence and financial abuse 463 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: within domestic violence situations is. 464 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 2: Okay, we have According to the All State Foundation, financial 465 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 2: abuse occurs in ninety nine percent of domestic violence cases. 466 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 2: Financial abuse is the number one reason victims stay in 467 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 2: or return to abusive relationships. Seventy eight percent of Americans 468 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 2: don't recognize financial abuse as domestic violence. And one of 469 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 2: the reasons we're here. 470 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 1: Is for women will experience domestic violence. I think that 471 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 1: is you know, this is horrifying. 472 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 2: Don't talk about we don't talk about it. 473 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, when you go home tonight, on your way home, 474 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 3: count count the doors going home, one and four, one 475 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 3: and four. When you go to your apartment, look through 476 00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 3: you all of those apartment mailboxes, one in four, one 477 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 3: and four. 478 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 2: You know what really opened my eyes about this. I 479 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 2: used to be on the board of i'll say, the 480 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 2: YWCA and Greenwich Connecticut, and it's all that Greenwich, Connecticut 481 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 2: is all that Greenwich Connecticut and the y WA. YWCA's 482 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 2: wonderful mission is domestic violence and racial equity. And so 483 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 2: many of these women on the boards who had these 484 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 2: incredible lives, and I would talk to them and they 485 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 2: were in golden handcuffs. I mean, they were experiencing domestic 486 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 2: violence at home, but their partner had created this lifestyle 487 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 2: for them and their children, holding that over their heads. 488 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 2: You know, they didn't feel like they're going to leave. 489 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 2: Who's going to downgrade their kids' lifestyle? And then eventually, 490 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 2: you know, a lot of that financial literacy if you're 491 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 2: you know, you have your partner, I will stay home. 492 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 2: You have you set up an account for me? You know, 493 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,120 Speaker 2: I said, you don't put credit, you don't take out 494 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 2: credit in my name, you don't do this. You really 495 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 2: that financial independence. We try to emphasize it over and 496 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 2: over and over again with Wealth Wednesdays. You can simply 497 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 2: conduct your life differently. 498 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 3: Definitely, And I think it's also important to note that 499 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 3: we don't always know what's also being threatened behind closed 500 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 3: doors exactly. I worked with a survivor who they both 501 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 3: were employed. They actually came from pretty significant means. He 502 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 3: had never laid a hand on her, but he threatened 503 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 3: her regularly. He put her down, told her she was crazy. 504 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 2: No one else will gaslighting, so many of these people talking. 505 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 3: Fifty years later, she left him and went to work 506 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 3: for the first time. After week and he came in 507 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 3: and shot and killed her in her work fight, shot 508 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 3: and killed her and then shot himself. Never once put 509 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 3: a hand on her prior to that. But she always 510 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 3: knew it was a threat. It was she always knew 511 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,959 Speaker 3: it was a possibility. And so and but that made 512 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 3: it harder to talk about because they said it was 513 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,679 Speaker 3: ever hit, you will know he's just threatening you. But 514 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 3: I don't take that as it right, And so I 515 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,479 Speaker 3: think it's so important that we understand we don't always 516 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 3: know what's happening behind clothes and what people are really fearful. 517 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 2: I couldn't believe this's these women, you know, what was 518 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 2: really happening to one and four? How prevalent it was 519 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 2: absolutely Wow. Well again, tell us how people can find you. 520 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 3: So you can go to www dot nn eDV dot 521 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 3: org and you can google Independence Project or Economic Justice. 522 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,199 Speaker 3: You'll find lots of great information if you want to 523 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 3: donate so we can continue to support the Independence Project. 524 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 3: You know, just takes ten dollars to back alone. So 525 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 3: we'd love to have folks come in and back alone 526 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 3: for us and help a survivor rebuild credit. 527 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 2: And Kim's out there fighting the fight in Washington, talking 528 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 2: to Congress, talking to the White House, really lobbying for 529 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,120 Speaker 2: all of us on this issue. And everybody out there 530 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 2: can also check out this curriculum, which I think all 531 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 2: women should check out. So tell us how to get 532 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 2: that in the micro loans. 533 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 3: So you can also get the curriculum on our website, 534 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 3: but you can also go to the All State Foundation. 535 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 3: You look up domestic violence relationship abuse on the All 536 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 3: State website and you can get the curriculum there. It's 537 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 3: very accessible with which is lovely. It's available in multiple languages. 538 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 3: You can do a self guided piece of that and 539 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 3: go through yourself, so it's super accessible. And again just 540 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 3: the fact that we have companies willing to really speak 541 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 3: out about this is truly remarkable. 542 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,840 Speaker 2: And a shout out to a company where we're founding partners, 543 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 2: Stellar Fi, which is a credit builder, because I know 544 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 2: when Lamin Zarad founded it and brought us into it, 545 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 2: he mentioned specifically finance. We've talked a lot about financial 546 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 2: abuse and that's an area where we want to provide 547 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 2: support to. That's at stellarfi dot com. 548 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's wonderful. We've also had support recently from Bread Financial, 549 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 3: who's also supported the work that we're doing in the 550 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 3: Independence project and supporting our staff. This is a very 551 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 3: high touch project, so that if a survivor misses a payment, 552 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 3: we reach out to them multiple times, we give them 553 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 3: multiple opportunities, and then we just closed the loan. We 554 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,360 Speaker 3: don't go after them, we don't you know, we don't 555 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 3: harass them everything. We just close it and shut it 556 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 3: down and pay it off out of our guaranteur fund. 557 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 3: And Bread Financial has been also a huge supporter of that. 558 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 2: That's great. 559 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you so much to see the director 560 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: of Economic Justice for the National Network to End Domestic Violence. 561 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 2: Thank you. 562 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: We appreciate all the amazing work that you're doing. 563 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 3: What a treat have me back in the summer when 564 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 3: it's shut sunny. 565 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 2: I will, we will. We could have predicted the way 566 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 2: now exactly a crazy day in New York and Wealth 567 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 2: Wednesdays wants to know all the domestic violence victims out 568 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 2: there that during Domestic Violence Awareness Months, we're thinking of you, 569 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 2: we're trying to help, and that we hear you. 570 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 3: Thank you well.