1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. Robert, Yes, 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: I would I would love for you to do something 5 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: right now, and maybe even listeners to if they're up 6 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 1: for it. Their hands are free, yeah, I know, not 7 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: if you're driving, or just yeah, or even your dominant hand. 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: Could you take your finger from your dominant hand and 9 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 1: trace a queue on your forehead upper case if you're wondering, okay, 10 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: with just my finger now, with like a sharpie or 11 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: something you can do with the sharper if you want, 12 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,160 Speaker 1: but I wouldn't recommend it. Okay, just unless you want 13 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: some extra flare today. All right, there we go done. Okay. 14 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: What I want to know is the little tail on 15 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 1: the queue? Which side did you draw it on? Let's 16 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: see it was on the right side. Ah, very revealing. Um. Okay, 17 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: you are apparently not a good liar. Oh okay, I 18 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: know it sounds weird. I mean, I'm sure you're gonna 19 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: explain how this works. But this is this is the 20 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: thing right right side for the little thing on the queue. 21 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: That means I'm a bad liar. But if I had 22 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: not left on you, you would have been impressed by 23 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: I would have been like, okay, if you had drawn 24 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: it on the left, that would have meant that you 25 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,040 Speaker 1: were anticipating the way that it was going to look 26 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: to me. Um. And this is actually the Q test 27 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: from the Guardian article The Truth about lying and Laughing. 28 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 1: Why isn't this done in job interviews and just you 29 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: know in general, you know, like anytime you meet a 30 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: new person, you should just require that they draw a 31 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: Q on their forehead or everyone be labeled according any 32 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: like the sneeches, because people will get hip to it 33 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: and then they'll start training themselves to to draw it 34 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: on the right or the left every now and then 35 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: and then ends up playing out exactly like the sneeches, 36 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: where everyone has different versions of the queue on their 37 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: head and nobody knows what's white, but for the next 38 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: five minutes it's super secret and you can try it 39 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: on anybody that you know. UM. So it is interesting 40 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: where the person places that tail, because uh, it's a 41 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: really a test of something called self monitoring, and high 42 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: self monitors draw of the letter queue. So, like you said, 43 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: on the on the left so that someone can see it, 44 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: and others on the right and so high. Self monitors 45 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: are concerned with how other people see them, and they 46 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: are usually able to adapt their behavior to suit a 47 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 1: situation in which they find themselves. And they're skilled at manipulating, 48 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: i e. They're good liars. So what is a lie? Right? 49 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: And we need to get down to it? And and 50 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: this is such a fascinating subject really, I mean, on 51 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: the surface, it doesn't sound so much because the line 52 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: is such an everyday part of our lives. Even if 53 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: you're not a liar or a you know, or or 54 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,119 Speaker 1: someone who just lives and breathes lies, you still kind 55 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: of do It's it's and I think like a great 56 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: example of this and some and people are gonna be 57 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: split on this. But the movie The Invention of Lying 58 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: the Ricky Gervais, I did not see that um has 59 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 1: you know, immensely talented cast. I'm I'm a big fan 60 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: of stuffers done in the past, but I was really 61 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: disappointed in the film. I felt like it didn't really 62 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: deliver the funny and it didn't really deliver on anything 63 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: all that um mentally amusing either. So do you think 64 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: that it got to the heart of lying, though in 65 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: a way it did through failure. I feel like and 66 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: and and again. I'm sure I've heard people that were like, oh, 67 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: that film was brilliant, but I think the film by 68 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: trying to create a world where there was no lying 69 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: even and then the whole thing is that it's it's 70 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: our world, except there's no lying in it. And then 71 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: one guy accidentally innvinced the lie lying and it becomes 72 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: this big thing. Uh, and again it gives them all 73 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: these powers, but they weren't really like like, you can't 74 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: envision our world without lying, Like everything falls apart, and 75 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: then humor becomes really hard to pull off as well. 76 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: And um, and I think we really have to take 77 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: a step back and look at what lying is and 78 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: just what how powerful a force it is, because I mean, 79 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: we effortlessly lie. Even if you don't lie all that much, 80 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: it's really easy to roll one off. But I really 81 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: encourage everyone in this podcast to take a step back 82 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: and really think of it in different terms. Well, I 83 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: think most people think of it in a negative light, right, 84 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: because it's not good to lie, right and normally normally, 85 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: but I think what we're going to explore is when 86 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: it is good and why it's actually necessary to our 87 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: very existence. Yeah, so yes, so indeed, let's first get 88 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: rid of the whole. I mean, we almost need a 89 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: different word for it, um and different words being economical 90 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: with the truth. Yeah, but that kind of feels like 91 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: a lie in itself. It is. Well, any euphemism for 92 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: a lie is a lie. Right. Well, there you go. 93 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: That actually breaks down some of the stuff here about 94 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 1: the linguistic power of lying, because so many parts of 95 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: language are really akin to lying, like as simile is 96 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: kind of is akin to lying in a way, you know. 97 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: And then uh, is so many figures of speech. Uh, 98 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: whether you're saying, um, that guy literally stabbed me in 99 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,799 Speaker 1: the back, of course you're using language incorrectly in this case. 100 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: But but it's a complete lie. And and even if 101 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: you said, man, he's stabbing in the back and you're 102 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 1: not um, and you're not adding that literally, that totally 103 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: screws it all up. Even if you're just just using 104 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: that that bit of speech there, you're lying. But but 105 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: you're using a lie to make a point and make 106 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: a comparison. Well, there are different types of flying too. 107 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: You can do it sometimes, um, to avoid responsibility and recussions, right. 108 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, And this is this is kind of like 109 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: the like a basic Hey did you unloved the dishwasher? Yeah, 110 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 1: I unloaded the dishwasher. Well that now you get called 111 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 1: on that. What's a better Well, just I think you 112 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: had a good example the other day where you said, yeah, 113 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: in grade school that you had drawn something on the floor, 114 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: and to avoid the repercussions of that, you you fingered 115 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 1: another kid in the class and said, ah, he did it. Well, 116 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 1: it was a little more to Harris in that because 117 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 1: I wrote his name on the floor, So I was 118 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: I was planning ahead with this crime. Um, so yeah, 119 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: I framed this guy. Better example would be when I 120 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: cut my sister's hair when I was like, I don't know, 121 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,160 Speaker 1: it's like four or something, and she was a couple 122 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: of years younger than me, and uh I she had 123 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: like pigtails, and I cut one of them off with 124 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:21,599 Speaker 1: a pair of scissors, and I put the scissors in 125 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: the pigtail in her hand and framed her for it, 126 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: and uh yeah, watch out for you man. So there's 127 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 1: an example. I framed her because I wanted to avoid 128 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,640 Speaker 1: the wrath of my mother, right right, So that's that's 129 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: a that's one of the reasons why you would do 130 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: it to save your reputation, right, you might a lie 131 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: to save your rep avoid hurting someone's feelings. Yeah, classic 132 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: white lie, boost your ego. And when I say that, 133 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 1: you know it could be sort of information you present 134 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: about yourself via Facebook, Um, you know anything really and 135 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: that that's kind of a lie we tell ourselves to 136 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:57,600 Speaker 1: you get into this whole area of lies. Is not 137 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: just something that uh we use externally, but we we 138 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 1: reflect in on ourselves and you get into this whole 139 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: weird area of just the manipulation of our world view, 140 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: in our in our perceived reality via lies. Yeah, and 141 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: we'll talk about self deception to why that's important, um 142 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: in a bit as well. But we also do it 143 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 1: to manipulate people we allowed to manipulate. And we we 144 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: lie in the sense that we control the amount of 145 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 1: information given. Sometimes we don't always tell the whole truth, right, 146 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: or if someone asks us a question, we don't uh 147 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: necessarily say oh yes or no, or you know, you 148 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: might just even remain quiet and let them make an assumption. 149 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: This is this is interesting. I have to I was 150 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: gonna wait till later about going to mention Uh, this 151 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: book I've been reading um is called Embassy Town by 152 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: China uh Melville. He's a British author of sci fi 153 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: and fantasy. But it creates a scenario where you're kind 154 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: of an invention of lying scenario where you have an 155 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: alien race that have a really alien language that involved 156 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: like it's very difficult for the people in this book, 157 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: the humans to communicate with the alien species. And uh, 158 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: the aliens have evolved so that they don't have they 159 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 1: don't have lies in their language, they don't have like 160 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: they're they're intrinsically trustful species. And so you have, uh 161 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: that these aliens are really impressed by humanity's ability to lie. 162 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: Like they're really amused by it, especially when humans lie, 163 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: well mainly when humans lie in their language because they've 164 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 1: they're incapable of doing it themselves. So to hear somebody 165 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: say something that is not true like totally blows their 166 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: mind because it's I mean, it's like, uh, it's like 167 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 1: an hallucination or something like a psychedelic experience. They're saying 168 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: something that's not true, but everything that we like, imagine 169 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: if everything you could say is true and you were 170 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: incapable of lying and you heard somebody lie, and you know, 171 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: but that it was a bold faced lie, like if 172 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: they said the skies purple and it clearly wasn't. Like 173 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: is that kind of situation where they're like, whoa, the 174 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: sky is purple? No it isn't. Oh my goodness, and 175 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: they're getting this kind of uh uh, you know, this 176 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: dissonance playing in their head, and so they they they 177 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: they themselves, these aliens try to work up to lying, 178 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: so they'll do things like they'll they'll they'll just they'll 179 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: drop the last part of a sentence, or they'll they'll 180 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: sort of they'll omit information from a sentence in an 181 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: attempt to sort of work their way up to telling 182 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: a full phase a lie. Well that's interesting and UM, 183 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: I mean when when I hear you talk about it 184 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: that way too, it makes me realize how much we 185 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 1: are always constructing our own reality, so through our own perceptions, 186 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: but also actively through lying, UM, And how that would 187 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: be weird to aliens who are like, huh, they're they're 188 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 1: creating these little stories. Just essentially what that is. UM, 189 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: You might be surprised to know that there's some some 190 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: jarring stats on how much we lie. UM. According to 191 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: the Science channels The Truth about Liars, which is a 192 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: really interesting documentary. One out of every four conversations that 193 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: lasts more than ten minutes will contain a lie. Wow, 194 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: this doesn't bode well for our podcast if we we 195 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: generally go thirty minutes. So that's what four lives at least. 196 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: This is my second conversation that's going to be longer 197 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: than ten minutes, by the way, So for me, I mean, 198 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:14,760 Speaker 1: I'm already at the anti men and women line equal portions. Um. 199 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: And then there's another bit of information out there again 200 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: from that Guardian article, The Truth about Lying and Laughing, 201 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: and it says that four and five lives remain undetected, 202 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: that more than people have lied secure job, and that 203 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: more than sixty of the population have cheated on their 204 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,679 Speaker 1: partners at least once. What I don't, I mean, maybe 205 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: I'm just a Pollyanna over here if I'm really surprised 206 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,839 Speaker 1: by that. Um. And then people were invited to keep 207 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: a detailed diary of every conversation that they had in 208 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: a two week period, and the results suggested that most 209 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: people tell about two important lives each day, and that 210 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 1: a third of conversations involves some form of deception. Well, 211 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: you know there, I can definitely see where they're what's 212 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: a big lie is like a lot of big lies 213 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: saying like, hey, are you done with that assignment yet? Yeah, 214 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: it's done. I just need to tweak it a little bit. 215 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: Yeah they didn't qualify that, right, I mean because a 216 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: white lie we all survived by, probably on a daily basis. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 217 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: whether or not you even know you're doing part of 218 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: being polite, you know, right, you want to pretend to 219 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: interest in a particular conversation or um or just you know, 220 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: it's sometimes lying is kind of just a lie by 221 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: a mission knowing when to keep your trap shut. Well, well, 222 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: you know, if I'm interviewing someone and they're going on 223 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: along soliloquy about something and they go, you know this 224 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 1: and that, I don't say there, no, I don't know. 225 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: Can you tell me about it instead of me just 226 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: going to google later on? I mean, I'm just trying 227 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: to get an interview out of that person. Said, you 228 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: need those encouraging spurts of oh yeah, which we tend 229 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: to do in conversation anyway. I mean, if you've ever 230 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: been a cocktail party and someone starts talking about something 231 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: you find yourself, you know, your head nodding in any cocouragement, 232 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 1: which some people take is like, oh, they knew exactly 233 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about here, I'm kind of I'm doing 234 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,080 Speaker 1: it now, right you arguing it? But but but oh 235 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: yeah yeah we we we. The lies are an essential 236 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: part of our our daily life. Now, they are rather 237 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: different from deception. However, like just blanked in deception is 238 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: it's a little different because you have very simple plants 239 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: and animals that use deception, that have evolved to deceive 240 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: prey or predators and in order to better suffrive a 241 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: hostile environment. Um Like it just like a carnivorous plant 242 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: that doesn't look like something that's gonna eat an insect. 243 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: It looks like a meal rather than a predator. Like 244 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: that's an example a very simple deception. Bugs that look 245 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: like they have eyes in their back. You know, any 246 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: form of camouflage that's deception. But it's not necessarily a lie. 247 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: I mean, it isn't a lie in the case of 248 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 1: an insect. Allies tend to involve um greater brain power 249 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: and UM, and you generally need to look to, of course, 250 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: the masters of of lies, humans or some of our 251 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: hominid brethren. Yeah. Actually that just reminded me of two examples. 252 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: One is a Porsche spider, which I think they would 253 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: be great like card game players, like a poor face. 254 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: When hunting fellow aracnets, they actually do a little bluffing game. 255 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: They sneak up on an arachnet and they wait until 256 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: another vibration ripples through the web to disguise their own 257 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 1: like a breeze, and then they're able to also mimic 258 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 1: the vibrations of other species, so their launches fulled into 259 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 1: approaching them and the belief that they've actually found a meat. Example, 260 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: so like the first example is like in a horror 261 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: movie where the person is in a creaky house and 262 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: somebody's following them, but they're keeping pace with their footsteps 263 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: and then suddenly they do a like a misstep and 264 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,680 Speaker 1: then they hear the creak of the person behind them, 265 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: right or the wind goes through the door and it 266 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 1: makes the door close, you know, creekly close, and little 267 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 1: did they know this, but it was behind the door. Yeah, 268 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,199 Speaker 1: so that's a good example. And then U two apes 269 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: Cocoa and Michael. They both used deception via their sign 270 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: language skills, and one example, Coco broke out a toy cat, 271 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: Are broke up a toy cat, and then signal to 272 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: indicate that had been broken by one of her trainers, 273 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: and then another one, Michael ripped a jacket belonging to 274 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: a trainer, and then when when he was asked who 275 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: was responsible, he signed that it was Coco. Oh yeah, 276 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,839 Speaker 1: so you see, I mean deception is is a big 277 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: part of how the animal world and how how we 278 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: navigate all of our circumstances, and it definitely gives us 279 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: an evolutionary leg up, so to speak. Yeah, and it's uh, 280 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: you know, it comes down in a lot of ways 281 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: to being able to empathize, you know, and the and 282 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,920 Speaker 1: what we call the theory of mind, which is, you know, 283 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: the the ability to to look at another animal or 284 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: or or human especially and being able to recognize that 285 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: there is a mind there, and being able and being 286 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:54,479 Speaker 1: able to sort of try and put yourself in their shoes, um, 287 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: trying to figure out like how they are they are 288 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: seeing the world around them. And then of course lying 289 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: involves trying to use that to your advantage, Okay, because 290 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: if you can inhabit that person's worldview, you can better 291 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: construct a lie or a story. Right, you can kind 292 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: of think of like I tend to think of the 293 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,600 Speaker 1: world view people's world views is kind of this bubble 294 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: that surrounds them, you know, like this artificial reality, um, 295 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: this virtual world. And and yeah, if you can empathize 296 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: with somebody, the better you can empathize with somebody, the 297 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: better you can understand their worldview. And uh. And therefore 298 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: you know, you can use that. You can use it 299 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: for a positive effect or or an extremely negative effect 300 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 1: that depending on what your your scheme is. But in 301 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: a way, it's like theory of mind. It's it's in 302 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,200 Speaker 1: a way it's reading a mind. It's it's being able 303 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: to see what that mind consists of and and what 304 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: that person may or may not be thinking about anticipating 305 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: to anticipation. I mean that's key. That's the I mean, 306 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: that's the evolutionary point here, is that if you can 307 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: understand what that other person's mind is doing, then you 308 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: have the advantage in a survival situation. Yeah, and this 309 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: is interesting too that lyne has other psychological benefits. Um, 310 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: there's scientific evidence that shows that depressive people are more 311 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: honest with themselves and uh than than nondepressive people who 312 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: are mentally healthy people, and that when people recover from 313 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: a depression, they become less honest, assumably or presumably around 314 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: the circumstances of that depression. So I kind of read 315 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: that as you know, you sort of need to create 316 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: a story for yourself in order to kind of get 317 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: over that that bad patch in your life, huh, or 318 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: to a certain extent, like the less you're caring about life. 319 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: It's it's kind of like you start, you get depressed. 320 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 1: Maybe you're not caring about your physical appearance as much 321 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: during that depression, and so you're not you know, you're 322 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: not doing personal maintenance. But then also by not lying enough, 323 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: you're you're falling out on your worldview maintenance, because the 324 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: world needs to be carefully groomed and uh and and 325 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: tweaked with just the right ensemble of lies. That's interesting. Yeah, 326 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: you're sitting around your in your your your bathrobe, presumably unwashed. Yeah, 327 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: not lying to yourself, and it's just a matter of 328 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: shaving up and and uh, putting on a happy smile. 329 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,400 Speaker 1: I suppose, Um, Yeah, faking until you make it right. Yeah, 330 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,920 Speaker 1: fake it to make You've talked about that before. Evolutionary 331 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: biologist David Livingston Smith, also from the documentary UM The 332 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: Truth About Liars, talks about in biological terminology, you have 333 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: a deceiver in a sucker. Suckers don't do well. So 334 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 1: that's really his his scientific terms. Yes, he says that 335 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: these are the evolutionary biological terms for lung, a deceiver 336 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: and a sucker. It's it's a pretty high brow there. Um. 337 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: So those of us who are especially skilled at manipulating others, 338 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: like politicians, they're they're like the stage magicians of our fantasies. 339 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: I think that's interesting how he phrased that, tend to 340 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 1: be the most successful people because they're skilled at deception. 341 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,879 Speaker 1: So again here here we're talking about the benefits of lying, 342 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,159 Speaker 1: and then that people who tend to be more six us, 343 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: we are better liars. And again that that phrase, they're 344 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: like the stage magicians of our fantasies. They're they're creating 345 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: this world and inhabiting our own worlds, as you pointed out, 346 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: and presenting a fantasy that we can buy into, that 347 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: we cannot help but buy into because we have something 348 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: called the truth bias, in which we want something to 349 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: be true. So we're already sort of it's weird. We're 350 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: hardwired to lie, but we're also hard wired to say, yeah, 351 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: I believe that, I want to believe you, which makes 352 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: us like the ultimate suckers. So hey, we're gonna take 353 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 1: a quick break here and when we come back, why 354 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 1: we are lousy liars? This presentation is brought to you 355 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: by Intel Sponsors of Tomorrow, and we're back. So why 356 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: are we lousy liars? Because we cannot help but to 357 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: give ourselves away in many different ways. One is is 358 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 1: micro expressions, which you've probably heard about before. Yeah, this 359 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: is the whole like thing like look at somebody's brow 360 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: they're talking to you. Yeah. It's basically like yeah and 361 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: involuntarily excuse me, involuntary muscle movement um that discloses an 362 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 1: emotion and under one of a second. So you have 363 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 1: to be particularly adept at reading someone's face in order 364 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,399 Speaker 1: to see this, or you could have like a camera 365 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: and then slow moment and try to figure it out. 366 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: But people really do do this. They cannot help themselves. 367 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: So if someone is trying to hide the fact that 368 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: they are feeling shocked or they're they're fearful of something, 369 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 1: that emotion is going to cross their face flicker across 370 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 1: their face even though they have a huge smile on. 371 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: And that's another thing to look at too, is that 372 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: when someone is smiling, they're engaging their their eye muscles, 373 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: and so a fake smile. You'll see that the smile 374 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: is there, but the eyes aren't actually moving. There's there's 375 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 1: very subtle um indicators there that will show you like 376 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 1: that person is is smiling through fear um. So that's 377 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons why we're crappy liars. Oh 378 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: that's like there was a bit on Modern Family where 379 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: they're talking about like reacting to the other person's jokes 380 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: and about how they'll be smiling with their their mouth 381 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: but out with their eyes. Oh. I didn't see that, 382 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: but you and we've all done it at one point, right. 383 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: You know how that feels too. It feels weird. You're like, okay, 384 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: I'm doing the thing, and you're trying to I mean, 385 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: you're trying to manually manipulate all of these things that 386 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: normally occur naturally, like when I naturally respond to something funny. 387 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: I'm not really I'm not cautious. I'm not going going 388 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: like all right, qu smile now, all right, now, eyes 389 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: look at the person who just made a joke, all right, 390 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: and then do the ha ha, you know, because like 391 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,560 Speaker 1: we've thought you were creeped out by laughter yoga because 392 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: it's it's fake laughter, right, it doesn't ring true, and 393 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 1: so it's just creepy. Um. But yeah, I mean, you 394 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: don't have your neurons firing, you know, to those particular 395 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,640 Speaker 1: muscles saying hey, come on, guys, let's get engaged because 396 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: you really think this is funny. So it's a little 397 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: bit like having botox eyes. Yeah, I mean that on 398 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: the other side, unless you're like a complete alien, I guess, 399 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 1: and you just have to fake everything. But well, yeah, 400 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:11,119 Speaker 1: that you just steal someone else's face and that circumstance. Um, 401 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: there's another tell, which is your speech. If you will 402 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: naturally try to distance yourself from a situation, if you 403 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: are lying, which means the personal pronouns I, me, and 404 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: myself you will cease to use, which is really interesting. Um, 405 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:28,959 Speaker 1: so you're trying to distance yourself. And they've seen this 406 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: over and over again. There's a scientist named Jeff Hancock, 407 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: and he plotted um, George Bush's speech patterns and what 408 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 1: he said over like a year period and he found 409 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 1: that the months before, uh, the Iraq War, that George 410 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: Bush had a significant drop in the use of what 411 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: they call truthful pronouns, the I, me and myself in 412 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,880 Speaker 1: the three months preceding my record, and then when war 413 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: broke out, you can see on this graph, all of 414 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,959 Speaker 1: a sudden he went back up to his the radular 415 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: place where he would use those personal pronouns again. So 416 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 1: he was in those three months preceding the Iraq War 417 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:11,199 Speaker 1: using distancing pronouns. So like before just lying at the 418 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: normal level for a politician, and then right before the 419 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: war when they're presenting the evidence, the idea is that 420 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: and the justification for the war the weapons of mass destruction, 421 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: all that the lying was. Yeah, the extrapolation is that 422 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,479 Speaker 1: when he was talking about weapons of mass destruction, he 423 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 1: was using distancing verbiage, which means which is usually indicator 424 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: of length. And but then when war broke out and 425 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,640 Speaker 1: he ceased to be talking about weapons of mass destruction 426 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: and I was talking about the war, that the personal 427 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: pronouns I, me and myself, the truthful pronouns returned. Huh. See, 428 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: now this really makes me think about again about like 429 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 1: the power of language, what we're talking about here. Um, 430 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: there's a bit from one of our Scott Baker's books 431 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 1: where he's talking about he's trying to make a point 432 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: about about philosophy and and about out in this fantasy 433 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: series about magic. He says that philosophy is the act 434 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: of making language confirmed to the world, whereas magic is 435 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: making the world conform to language. And I can't help 436 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 1: but feel when we're when we tell a lie, that's 437 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: what we're doing the latter, We're trying to make the 438 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: world confirmed to conform to our language. And uh and 439 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 1: in doing that, I mean it's in the same way 440 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: that in a fantasy world, like casting a spell would 441 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 1: require a great deal of physical energy and mental concentration, 442 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: telling a lie, uh involved seems to involve that as well, 443 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: because we are we are summoning our all of our 444 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 1: our mental faculties two remake the world to either remake 445 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: the past, the present, or or some semblance of the future. Um. 446 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 1: And and again this may sound a little bit like, 447 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 1: you know, an overstatement of the obvious, but but I 448 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: think it's kind of amazing the more you think about it. 449 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,239 Speaker 1: Like when you tell a lie, you are in a 450 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: way like wounding the timeline. Yeah, it's interesting. There's a 451 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 1: field of linguistics called psycholinguistics that talks specifically about this, 452 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: which I think we should probably do a podcast on 453 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 1: at some point. UM. And it is fascinating. Again, it's 454 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: the way that we're creating these stories and influencing the 455 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 1: way someone thinks about something. UM. And usually we're doing 456 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 1: that through speech, but we can also do it through 457 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: writing and UM. Another good way to ferret outlying and 458 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: writing is that there's a third more use of negative emotions. 459 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: So we're talking about emails here basically, UM. And Again 460 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,959 Speaker 1: there's the researcher went through all of this data and 461 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,239 Speaker 1: basically said, look at you know, you know here all 462 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: these different categories, and what we're beginning to see is 463 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 1: that people who are allowing in emails UM, for example, 464 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: have a lot of negative emotions expressed, and there are 465 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: more references to he, she and they. Again there's backing 466 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,440 Speaker 1: away from the eye me and myself and UM. There's 467 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 1: actually software being developed by Cornell University to help the 468 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 1: technicalize and email communications. The government is very interested in this, 469 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: by the way, of course, but a general baseline of 470 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: how you can detect a lie is you can also 471 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 1: look for clues like the person is is giving you 472 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 1: way too many details. So yeah, and again this, I mean, 473 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: this is like a classic example of I think you 474 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 1: see this in you see this in the in various 475 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 1: storytelling and especially in comedies where the person is telling 476 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: a lie and so they have all this, they have 477 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: the setup, they have the story in their head, and 478 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: if the person is buying the lie without thinking about 479 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: they're like, all right, I get it, you went you 480 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:29,639 Speaker 1: didn't go to the video store or whatever. You know. 481 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: But but but it's like in the act of creating 482 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 1: something that wasn't real, we have to really create it. 483 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: We have to uh, we we have to really engage 484 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: in in what I've seen referred to as mental time travel. Well, 485 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: but really before before you talk about that, because that's 486 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:51,479 Speaker 1: really cool. Um, just like you're talking about in setting 487 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: up that um that circumstance that the lie, you also 488 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: will notice that people will start speaking slower because it's 489 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: giving me them more time to think and they're not 490 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: using contractions. So, I mean, that's fascinating that your brain 491 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: all of a sudden it just drops the contractions just 492 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: to gain like a split second. So it can be 493 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: like and uh, yeah it was red and yeah it 494 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: was nighttime and yeah sure I was here. Um. Yeah, 495 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: that's it's amazing this um, this idea of mental time travel. 496 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: Um that that I'm referring to. Hear. Um, Let's see, 497 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: I was reading about this, uh in Behavioral and Brain 498 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 1: Sciences and it's the work of Thomas Sudan North and 499 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: Michael C. Core Ballas. And I'm just gonna read this 500 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: quick bit here, he says. They they're talking about just 501 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: the evolution of of of of human memory and how 502 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: it works, they says, to explain why the cognitive arms 503 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: race seems to have persisted longer in humans than another primates, 504 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 1: resulting in apparently unique cognitive skills, including perhaps mental time travel. UM. 505 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 1: A potential explanation is that once early hominance obtained a 506 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: certain level of ecological dominance, perhaps partially through technological advances 507 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: as as discussed earlier, Uh, they were faced with increased 508 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: competition for their own from their own species. Humans uniquely 509 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: became their own principal hostile force of nature. All right, 510 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 1: So that's pretty easy to follow. Basically, we're, uh, we're 511 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: in this point we have to compete with other humans 512 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,719 Speaker 1: rather than other animals. All right, then they continue this 513 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: may have resulted in a runaway social competition between and 514 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: within groups towards greater intelligence and enhanced abilities for both 515 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: cooperation and deception. These may have included the ability to 516 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: entertain alternative, alternative future scenarios, which is basically what they're 517 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 1: talking about mental time travel. Uh. This this idea that, um, 518 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: we need to be able to form an idea false 519 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: idea of what may happen in the future, so that 520 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: we can, you know, we can predict what will happen 521 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:47,120 Speaker 1: in the same way that we need to be able 522 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: to contemplate somebody else's mind in order to outsmart them 523 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,440 Speaker 1: or manipulate them. Um. But yeah, and then they also 524 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: meant they also in theory of mind and also communication itself. 525 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: So I really like the idea of thinking about it 526 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: as a as as mental time travel, you know, and 527 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 1: that and that when you're telling this lie, you're having 528 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,400 Speaker 1: to slow down, your your language is changing, the construction 529 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 1: is changing, because you are you're you're you're traveling in 530 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 1: time to a certain extent. You're you're tinkering with with 531 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: the timeline. It just really fascinates me. It is, Yeah, 532 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: I mean, that is what you're doing. And again it's 533 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: the anticipating and trying to predict the future, which is 534 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:31,199 Speaker 1: is a so so amazing that we're manipulating at that 535 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 1: level in those split seconds. That to me is is 536 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: pretty wondrous. UM. And in every culture too. I was 537 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: looking around, I was I was thinking, is there some 538 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: sort of language, like I just think like languages is 539 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: closely linked to all this. Uh. Might there be a 540 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: culture that does not have line And the closest you 541 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: can you can come there. There's a tribe called the 542 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: Paraha people Um and their indigenous hunter gathered group in 543 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 1: Amazon and they have a really like a really unique 544 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: language like there's nothing else like it on on earth. Um. 545 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: It has just eight consonants, three vowels UM. And you 546 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 1: know it's a it's a complex array of tones, stresses, syllables. Um. 547 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: It can be it can be sung, hum or whistled. 548 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: And it it's striking in the number of things that 549 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: it doesn't happen Like. They don't have numbers. Uh, they 550 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 1: don't have concepts of counting. Uh, they don't have color. Um, 551 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: the simplest Uh, they have the simplest pronoun inventory. That's 552 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: known they don't have relative tenses and that this is 553 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: really key. They don't have creation myths or fiction. Uh 554 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: they and uh in their individual or collective memory is 555 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: no more than two generations in the past. So it's 556 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: like it's very stripped down. And that's just the mere 557 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: fact that they don't have fiction, that they don't have 558 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: these creation myths. I was thinking, like maybe this is 559 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: maybe they'll wonder if they have lies. But they lie 560 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: all the time. They like the some of the guys 561 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,720 Speaker 1: that that spent time with them, um and in particular, 562 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: like you know, learn their language. Uh, Like they said, 563 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: these guys would like to them all the time, just 564 00:29:57,880 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: to kid around with them. So I mean, it's just 565 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: a form of entertainment, yeah, form of entertainment. But it's 566 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: it's also it's it's independent of like linguistic ability. Like 567 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: I wonder if we were lying to each other, you know, 568 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 1: probably before we even have the ability to really converse 569 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: with well. I mean, I think it's part and parcel 570 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: of existence really. I mean, you'd have to be a 571 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: species of one not to lie. You know, as soon 572 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: as there are two of you, lies begin, and you know, 573 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: call me um a negative Nelle but I just think 574 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: it's a really important part of being part of a 575 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: community or a culture, or you know, any sort of 576 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,600 Speaker 1: really even an organism. You know, you've got to be 577 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: able to cooperate together, and part of that is actually lying. Um. 578 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 1: And when I say lying, it's more like social lying 579 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: in order not to hurt someone's feelings or so on 580 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: and so forth. You know, to try to keep keep 581 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:51,800 Speaker 1: the momentum of what you're trying to create together going. Um. 582 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: I did want to mention a couple of technologies that 583 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: can help detect lying, and we all know lie detectors. 584 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: That's that's probably the first thing people think of. M 585 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: R I. Um. You know that's been used. Actually, let's 586 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: used in India, I believe in their court systems. Um not. 587 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: I don't believe there's any other country that has adopted that. Yeah, 588 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: we talked about this in a previous podcast. Yeah. Yeah. 589 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: But then there's something called a laser Doppler vibrometer, which 590 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: just sounds weird, and it's a laser directed at the 591 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: carteroid artery, which is your main blood flow to the brain, 592 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: and it measures blood flow and heart rate and is 593 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: intended for use in interrogation, in border crossings, in security checks. 594 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: So again there are ways to to figure out, you know, 595 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: from a behavioral perspective, if someone's lying, and then there's 596 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: all these different things physiological that we can look at. Um, 597 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: there's something else called an interrogator simulator, and that uses 598 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: thermal imaging to measure breathing and blood flow around the eyes, 599 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: because when we're stressed, our blood flow changes and you 600 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: can really see that in those areas. And then at 601 00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: the same time that it's measuring all these things, there's 602 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: a computer that asks questions and then assesses these physiological responses. 603 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: So again it's like they're minor, little acts of sorcery 604 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: that we carry out because they're they're they're they're kind 605 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: of unnatural. They're little unnatural acts that that change the 606 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: world around us. Yes, and yeah, still that we know 607 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: humans are so variable that any one technology you could 608 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: probably beat. Right, there's nothing, there's no bulletproof method here 609 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: so far. So which leads me to the whole uh 610 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: point here is that if you if you want to 611 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: lie with gusto, there are a couple of different things 612 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: that you can do to make it convincing. Okay, okay, 613 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: So one is don't And I'm not saying, hey, go 614 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 1: out and lie. I really am not. I'm not advocating that, um, 615 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: but if you were to, you would want to not 616 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 1: deviate from your behavior baseline. Okay, okay. So that means 617 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 1: like you know, if you usually react in one way 618 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: to something, you you want to be pretty consistent, like 619 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: if you if you're generally see did at a meeting? 620 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: Don't stand up to lie? Yes? That is going to 621 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: weren't you a lot of unwanted Notice a special hat? 622 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: When when did you decide to lie to everything? You 623 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: put a liar hat it It says I'm lying right now. 624 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: Don't don't put that hat on. Um. This is interesting 625 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: develop a rapport with a person with whom you are 626 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: lying to, which is again it's that whole like you 627 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: were talking about empathizing and trying to inhabit that person's world, 628 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: because then once that person feels some sort of connection 629 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: with you and that you understand um or you understand 630 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: that person, that they're less likely to say, oh yeah, 631 00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: they're they you know they're lying because you're like, no, 632 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: they wouldn't lie to me. We've got a rapport going again, 633 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: not too many details. And then this was really interesting. 634 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 1: There's a Russian spy who was undergoing a polygraph from 635 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 1: the US government and he asked his his Russian counterparts 636 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:59,719 Speaker 1: for advice, and what they told him was surprisingly simple 637 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,719 Speaker 1: and elegant, which was get a good night's sleep and 638 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: rest and go into the test rested and relaxed, be 639 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: nice to the polygraph examiner, develop a rapport and be cooperative, 640 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: and try to maintain your calm. And he passed with 641 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: blind colors. So sometimes it's just as simple as that. 642 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: It is just which is actually not so simple, because 643 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,439 Speaker 1: you're regulating your your your blood pressure, in your heart 644 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: rate and all that good stuff, you know. Another example 645 00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,320 Speaker 1: that comes to mind of of of the tell tale 646 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: of a lie being that the liar has added a 647 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: lot of extra information, is that when you have people 648 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: um call or these days it's more email and sick 649 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 1: for the day. It seems like my past experiences with 650 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: this as a as a manager or that where that 651 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:46,799 Speaker 1: that you know, if someone needs a sick day'd be like, 652 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 1: I'm sick, I can't come to work today, and you're like, 653 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,919 Speaker 1: all right. But if it's like a long explanation where 654 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: it's like I woke this morning, I couldn't get out 655 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: of bed, and then I had to. You know, it's 656 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: like if you if it's a whole paragraph of explanation, 657 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: and then then you're your malarkey alarm starts. I'll also 658 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: say I will add to that to you, having managed 659 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: for for a couple of years now, um that if 660 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: if the term diarrhea is included in there, that's a 661 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,399 Speaker 1: telly because that no one wants to ask no question, yeah, 662 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: like diarrhea say no more. Yeah, because nobody has ever 663 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,919 Speaker 1: responded with do you really have diarrhea? Yeah? Yeah, But 664 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: you know you've got to be pretty close to your 665 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 1: to manage to your manager to say I have diarrhea. 666 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: Well in the first place, well not necessarily, I think 667 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: you can. That's the thing. You throw it out there 668 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: and it's like, whoa, they told me they had diarrhea. 669 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: That's that's it's a back away thing. Yeah, So there 670 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 1: you go. Another tip. Yeah, I think would actually work. Yeah, 671 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 1: I think it would work better on people that you're 672 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: not that well acquainted with. There's more of a shock factor. Yeah. Yeah, 673 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: all right, let's get to some more shock factors with 674 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: some listener mail. Oh are we there already we are 675 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: unless you have, um let me think. I mean, basically, 676 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: it's just such a rich subject. I feel like we 677 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: could just go on and on about we could we 678 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: could talk about kids and how they develop lying and 679 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 1: how they're you know, not the instant cherubs that we 680 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 1: know them to be, although they're pretty cool. Yeah, and 681 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: uh and and also the whole you're talking about, like 682 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: how do you get get at lying? I mean, there's 683 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: a whole other podcasts we're gonna get to about false memories. 684 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: But but that's that ties into a number of these 685 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,319 Speaker 1: things here, Like you get in the whole situation of 686 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: like how many times do you have to lie to 687 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: yourself before you believe it? The lies we tell ourselves 688 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,080 Speaker 1: and then believe to get through through life exactly. And 689 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,800 Speaker 1: also the formation of false memories is very much tied 690 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 1: into this idea of mental time travel and that I'm 691 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: going to predict the future and create this version of 692 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 1: the future and play around within and self deception and 693 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 1: cognitive dissonance, right, trying to lessen those uncomfortable feelings that 694 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: you have by line line line All right, Yeah, let's 695 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,360 Speaker 1: hit the listener email. First up, we have an email 696 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: from Andrew Andrew says, Hi, guys, I'm a fifteen year 697 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,359 Speaker 1: old from the UK and was wondering if you had 698 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 1: any suggestions for books I could read. You often cite 699 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,359 Speaker 1: books on your show. So and then the email cuts off, 700 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 1: but then he emails back, I know that you should 701 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 1: have some good suggestions for me. Thanks in advance, Andrew. Um, 702 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: sorry about the email being in two parts. Also, physics 703 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: is my favorite subject. Smiley face. All right, Andrew, Uh, well, 704 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: what are your suggestions? Well? Um, along the physics line, 705 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 1: one book that comes to mind is The Physics of 706 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 1: Superheroes by James Kakalios. That's k A k A l 707 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: I O s Uh. He's the author of the amazing 708 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: Story of Quantum Mechanics and uh yeah, this is uh, 709 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 1: it's this is a really cool book. Like he just 710 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,560 Speaker 1: goes through like various examples of superhero powers and goes 711 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,759 Speaker 1: really in depth about how it might work or plant 712 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,759 Speaker 1: with more. And it's a it's it's really entertaining and 713 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: it's shot full of physics. Uh. And then just in general, 714 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: like in terms of you know, we have we've talked 715 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 1: before about how science fiction and science are closely uh 716 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: inter link. I feel like fifteen years old, that's perfect 717 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 1: time to read. To read doon if you haven't already. 718 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, that's your go to right, yeah, that's 719 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,240 Speaker 1: I mean, it's like, I can't how can I recommend 720 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,480 Speaker 1: anything else that happened first recommended in it? Right? Yeah, 721 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,239 Speaker 1: it's true. It's true for me. I would say. Check 722 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: out a book called The Big Questions Physics by Michael Brooks. 723 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: It's pretty cool. It kind of couches all the different 724 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 1: questions and physics in a in a really interesting way, 725 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: UM engaging way, Like what is time? Um? Is one 726 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: of the questions that it tries to answer. Um. Do 727 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: we live in a simulation? We've talked about that before? 728 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: Am I unique? What is the God particle? Um? Those 729 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: are all really interesting physics related questions that Michael Brooks 730 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: tries to answer, and somewhat related is John Horgan's Rational Mysticism. Um. 731 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,359 Speaker 1: That is, spirituality meets science in the Search for Enlightenment. Again, 732 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 1: the God particle is discussed in that. So if if 733 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,799 Speaker 1: you're really heavy Andrew, you can you can switch over 734 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 1: to John Horgan's Rational Mysticism. It's good stuff, all right. 735 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:55,839 Speaker 1: So we're gonna go and wrap it up. I'm gonna 736 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,240 Speaker 1: remind everybody to check out our Facebook and Twitter page. 737 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: We are Blow the Mind on both of those and 738 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 1: we put a lot of work into making sure they're 739 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: also two cool links up to the stuff on the 740 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: web as as well as updates on what we're working on, 741 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: so be sure to check that out. If you enjoy 742 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: the show, and feel free to drop us a line 743 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: at Blow the Mind at house stuff works dot com. 744 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 1: Be sure to check out our new video podcast, Stuff 745 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: from the Future. Join how Stuff Work staff as we 746 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 1: explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow.