1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: Rip Current is a production of iHeart Podcasts. The views 2 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: and opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the host. 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 2: Producers or parent company. 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 3: Listener discretion is it VI. 5 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 4: The bomb in Judy Barry's car detonated just before noon 6 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 4: on May twenty fourth, nineteen ninety in Oakland. It was 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 4: armed by a timer made from an analog wristwatch. Unless 8 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 4: tampered with, the timer could only run twelve hours, which 9 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 4: gave a rough time period during which the bomb must 10 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 4: have been placed under the driver's seat in Judy's car. 11 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 4: She spent that night before the bombing in the guest 12 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 4: room in the apartment of a man named Dave Kemnitzer. 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 4: They arrived there after a meeting at the Seeds of 14 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 4: Peace House. I haven't been able to determine an actual 15 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 4: time that Judy parked her car at Kemnitzer's house, but 16 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 4: for the sake of our let's say eleven PM on 17 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 4: May twenty third. That means that the bomb, again, assuming 18 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,960 Speaker 4: the watch was not tampered with, was placed sometime after 19 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 4: eleven am on May twenty third. So a critical piece 20 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,640 Speaker 4: of determining who placed the bomb would be who had 21 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 4: access to Judy's car after eleven am on May twenty third. 22 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 4: Let's expand the timeline a little to show Judy's movements 23 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 4: in the forty eight hours before the bomb detonated. On 24 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 4: the evening of May twenty second, two nights before the bombing, 25 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 4: Judy attended a secret meeting at a will at Steiner. 26 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 4: She parked across the street from the meeting and locked 27 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 4: her car doors. From Judy's deposition, given just before her 28 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 4: death in nineteen ninety. 29 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 2: Seven, what was the purpose of that meeting, we'd lived. 30 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 2: We were trying to meet with the loggers and the 31 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 2: log company owners, the small company owners, not the big corporations, 32 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 2: so that we could work out peaceful really with them. 33 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 2: We were being publicly threatened, and we're trying to establish 34 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 2: a rapport and make them understand that we weren't going 35 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 2: to as baptized their equipment or try to direct our 36 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 2: protests against them. 37 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 4: The FBI looked into whether it would be easy to 38 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 4: break into a car undetected by people in the restaurant 39 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,360 Speaker 4: and concluded that it wasn't. But this is where the 40 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 4: Lord's Avenger letter says that the bomb was placed. 41 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 5: I put the bomb in her car whilst she was 42 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 5: at a meeting with the loggers. 43 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 4: But of course this would mean that the timer wouldn't 44 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 4: arm the bomb for more than twenty four hours, which 45 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 4: isn't how the bomb was constructed. Anderson Valley Advertiser Managing 46 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 4: editor Mark Scaramella. 47 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 6: Everything in the Large Avenger letter is correct in my opinion, 48 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 6: except for where it was placed, and that's part of 49 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 6: the distraction, you know. I think that was intentionally he 50 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 6: put that in there, it to sound credible and then 51 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 6: added one element of it and make it. Don't know 52 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:06,959 Speaker 6: this was a Willets exercise. 53 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,519 Speaker 4: After the meeting in Willet's, Judy returned to her house. 54 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,519 Speaker 4: Her ex husband, Mike Sweeney, lived in a different house 55 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 4: on the same property. She most likely did not lock 56 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 4: her car that night, as their property was remote and 57 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 4: no one would be stopping by to take something from 58 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 4: the car. This, of course would give Mike Sweeney the 59 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 4: opportunity to place the bomb under the driver's seat. But 60 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 4: you again run into the problem of the timing. Even 61 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 4: if he had waited until dawn, say six in the morning, 62 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 4: the bomb would have been armed in Oakland before Judy 63 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 4: drove from the Seeds of Peace meeting to Dave Kemnitzer's 64 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 4: house and would have detonated. Then The next stop is 65 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 4: the first, which fits with the timing. Judy stopped in 66 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 4: Yukaya at the Mendocino Environmental Center. She locked her car doors. 67 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 6: The Lords Avengeer letter claimed that the bomb was placed 68 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 6: in Willits at a meeting that Judy Barry was having 69 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 6: with the loggers. But for that timing to work, the 70 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 6: twelve hour watch would have had to malfunction, which is 71 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 6: what the Lords of Anger letter says. That it didn't 72 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 6: kick down in the twelve hours, it took longer to 73 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 6: tick down. The more obvious conclusion is that it worked correctly, 74 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,159 Speaker 6: that it was set in Yukaia, and that it armed 75 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 6: itself overnight while the car was parked in Oakland at 76 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:29,799 Speaker 6: the Knature House. 77 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 4: The location where the bomb was placed has ramifications for 78 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 4: identifying who tried to kill Judy Barry. I'm Toby Ball 79 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 4: and this is rip current episode ten the usual Suspect. 80 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 4: In this episode, we are going to talk about the 81 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 4: suspicion surrounding Judy Barry's ex husband, Mike Sweeney. As I've 82 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 4: mentioned a number of times over the season, there is 83 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 4: there's no strong evidence linking anyone to the bombing of 84 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 4: Judy Berry's car. That's why it remains unsolved. But Mike 85 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 4: Sweeney is an interesting case, not just because of the 86 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 4: factors which leads some people to believe that he is 87 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 4: the likely perpetrator, but because of the way that Judy 88 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 4: reacted and members of her tight knit circle still react 89 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 4: to the suggestion that Sweeney might be a viable suspect. 90 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 4: You may notice that there are some people whose voices 91 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,719 Speaker 4: you haven't heard in this series. The reason for this 92 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 4: is that once they heard that I would be talking 93 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 4: to people who believed Mike Sweeney was the most likely suspect, 94 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 4: they chose not to participate and told me that they 95 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 4: would encourage others not to participate. It feels like an overreaction. 96 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 4: I asked why talking about Sweeney as a suspect was 97 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 4: so important that it prevented them from talking about her 98 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 4: life outside of the bombing, but I didn't receive an answer. Anyway. 99 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 4: When I talk about how the argument over Sweeney threatens 100 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,840 Speaker 4: to diminish legacy, this is what I am talking about. 101 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 4: That being said, there's no direct evidence of his involvement, 102 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 4: and there are reasons that seemed to make it unlikely 103 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 4: that he could have done it, but he was never investigated, 104 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 4: and that is a big part of the problem. This episode, 105 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 4: we'll talk about a guy named Bruce Anderson. Bruce is 106 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 4: a longtime owner and publisher of The Anderson Valley Advertiser, 107 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 4: an unusual newspaper out of Boonville, California, population nine hundred 108 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,320 Speaker 4: and eighty five. It is the paper for which Mark 109 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 4: Scaramella is the managing editor. Bruce wasn't able to tape 110 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 4: an interview, but it's important to know right off the 111 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 4: bat that Anderson became the strongest proponent of the Mike 112 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 4: Sweeney as bomber theory. He has written about it often 113 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 4: and at length in the Advertiser and argued for it 114 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 4: in other forums. He too, is puzzled by the vehemence 115 00:06:55,839 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 4: around not investigating Sweeney. He asked this rhetorical quot question 116 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 4: in the Anderson Valley Advertiser on February seventeenth, nineteen ninety nine. 117 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 5: Odd isn't it that speculation aimed at solving the mystery 118 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 5: of who bombed Judy Berry is regarded as an attack 119 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 5: on her memory. 120 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 4: Journalist Mike Janella. 121 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 3: The Mike Sweeney connection. 122 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 7: It's a he said, she said, They said, I don't 123 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 7: know the truth of the matter, but I'll share with 124 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 7: you what I do know about the scenario. Judy's people, 125 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 7: Darryl Cherney all the earth for a saying said, oh no, 126 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 7: you can't talk about Mike Sweeney. 127 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:41,920 Speaker 3: That's lies. It can't be Mike Sweeney. I know Bruce 128 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 3: Anderson in the ABA, We've had some fierce debates over 129 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 3: his take on things. But I'll tell you what. They 130 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:55,239 Speaker 3: were divorced. Ex husbands are always a suspect in any 131 00:07:55,360 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 3: kind of violent thing. So what's the big surprise here, Well, 132 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 3: of course they should be looking at Mike Sweeney, and 133 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,559 Speaker 3: especially when you go back to when they were living 134 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 3: in Sonoma County and the airport fire bombing or whatever 135 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 3: the hell went on there, even back to Mike Sweeney's 136 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 3: Stanford days when supposedly he was hooked up with a 137 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 3: radical group that was tied into the Isle of Vista bombing. 138 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 3: What I'm trying to say is, of course you should 139 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 3: be looking at that individual. I have no evidence that 140 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 3: Mike Sweeney was somehow directly tied to this car bombing. 141 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 3: I don't think anyone has that kind of evidence. The 142 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 3: point is, if I were a cop, I'd be looking 143 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 3: into his background. 144 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 4: Mike mentions an airport fire, bombing in Santa Rosa and 145 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 4: a bombing and Isla Vista, and we'll get to both 146 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,599 Speaker 4: of those. But Sweeney was first identified as a suspect 147 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 4: in Steve Talbot's documentary Who Bombed Judy Berry Mark Scaramella. 148 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 6: Steve tealbritch groundbreaking documentary was the first major identification of 149 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:07,479 Speaker 6: Sweeney as a suspect. He did the only serious investigation 150 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 6: that was ever done on the case, and that documentary 151 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 6: that he wrote and all that went with it. When 152 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 6: that aired, I opened some eyes, but it took a 153 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 6: while for people to hone in. 154 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 4: Now it might seem surprising that law enforcement wouldn't aggressively 155 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 4: investigate the ex husband in a bombing case like Judy's. 156 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 6: He's the ex husband. That's a self evident question. He's 157 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 6: the ex husband. The first person that should be suspected 158 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:38,439 Speaker 6: in any crimes against women is the man and the story. Obviously, 159 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 6: that's the first person that should be investigated and either 160 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 6: included or excluded. I mean a standard crime one oh one, 161 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 6: and it was not done. 162 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 4: Writer and investigator David helvarg He was Steve Talbot's partner 163 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 4: in making the Who Bombed Judy Berry documentary, He. 164 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 8: Was the only person who wouldn't go on cam were 165 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 8: with us, of our suspects. He did sort of eventually respond, 166 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 8: why would he bomb his ex wife? Because then he'd 167 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 8: be stuck with the kids. But he was at the 168 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 8: least a legitimate target. They were getting divorced, They were 169 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 8: having a lot of conflicts at the time. 170 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 4: Journalists and filmmaker Steve Talbot. 171 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 9: Now, of all the people we interviewed or asked the interview, 172 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 9: including the suspects or people we thought should be considered suspects, 173 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 9: everyone talked to us except Sweeney. And when I called 174 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 9: him the first time, he slammed down the phone. Second 175 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 9: time he threatened to assume me he was hostile, So 176 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 9: that of course made me even more suspicious. 177 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 4: So who was Mike Sweeney? His background resembles that of 178 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 4: many radicals of the sixties and seventies, a child of 179 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 4: privilege who became radicalized in college. Journalist Alexander Coburn was 180 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 4: interested in the Judy Berry case and summed up Sweeney's 181 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 4: early life. 182 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 5: It began its arc through human history as the first 183 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 5: whale of a baby born to wealth in nineteen forty seven, 184 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,600 Speaker 5: son of an oil company lawyer who did a tour 185 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 5: of duty in the Nixon administration. From the pleasant surroundings 186 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,439 Speaker 5: of Upscale Santa Barbara Sweeney went to Stanford and became 187 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 5: involved with a maoist group called Vinceremos, not to be 188 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 5: confused with the Vinceremos Brigade, which took volunteers to Cuba 189 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 5: to cut sugarcane. 190 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 4: Steve Talbot. 191 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,839 Speaker 9: This was sort of a Black Panther wannabe group that 192 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 9: was based, of all places, at Stanford. He was at 193 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 9: Stanford and he was part of that group, and they 194 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 9: had a history of some bombings and violent history. 195 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 4: Vinceremos was led by a charismatic professor named Bruce Franklin. 196 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 4: It is probably best known for being an entry point 197 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 4: to radical for young people who gained notoriety later, such 198 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 4: as several members of the Symbionese Liberation Army, the group 199 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 4: that kidnapped Patty Hurst. More from Alexander Coburn. 200 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 5: Vince an Emos at Stanford was into Panther's style, black 201 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 5: leather jackets and berets, plus guns. Some of them would 202 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 5: some of them the real things, the kind that people 203 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 5: have a right to bear, though not discharge, as Vincedemos 204 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 5: did fatally at an unarmed Hispanic kid transporting a prisoner 205 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 5: from Chino. 206 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 4: This was an operation by Vince Ramos to free a 207 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 4: prisoner named Ronald Batty. During the course of the operation, 208 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 4: one prison guard was killed and another wounded. Mike Sweeney 209 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,479 Speaker 4: wasn't involved in this episode, but this was the organization 210 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 4: he belonged to. There is reason to believe that he 211 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 4: was in some way involved in another action, this one 212 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 4: involved burning down a bank. In February of nineteen seventy, 213 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 4: a series of riots broke out in Ila Vista, a 214 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 4: community next to Santa Barbara, mostly populated by college students 215 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 4: at University of California, Santa Barbara and another school. On 216 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 4: the twenty fifth, the Bank of America building was burned 217 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 4: to the ground as rioters fought with sheriff's deputies in 218 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 4: riot gear and tear gas fogged the air, and the. 219 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 2: Wound of Will the third left in my flope, I 220 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 2: worked so well less continually going off. 221 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 4: Two months later, an article about the event written by 222 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,599 Speaker 4: Sweeney ran in the May nineteen seventy edition of The 223 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 4: Radical magazine ramparts. The description he gave of that day 224 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,680 Speaker 4: seemed to many people an indication that he'd actually been 225 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 4: there on the scene. And then there was another incident 226 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 4: allegedly tied to Sweeney that involved the use of explosives. 227 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 4: This is Bruce Anderson writing in the February seventeenth, nineteen 228 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,319 Speaker 4: ninety nine edition of the Anderson Valley Advertiser. 229 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 5: Judy Barry told Steve Talbot, Dave helvarg Me, a woman 230 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 5: named Mary True, Lisa Henry Russ, and Sylvia Bartley, private 231 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 5: investigator named Sheila O'Donnell, and a half a dozen other 232 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 5: people assembled one night in her String Creek cabin to 233 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 5: discuss the case that Mike Sweeney had blown up the 234 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 5: hangar in Sonoma County. 235 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 4: This was the bombing of the Santa Rosa Airfield in 236 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 4: late October nineteen eighty. 237 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 9: He actually made a bomb that triggered a big fire 238 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 9: at an airfield in Santa Rosa, a small airfield that 239 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 9: was right near the house they were living in when 240 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 9: they were first married and had two daughters. 241 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 8: That bomb again a complex in Sandory device that was 242 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 8: very complex but didn't quite function as it was designed to. 243 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 8: And yet there was a polog who was sleeping over 244 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 8: in one of the hangars, who barely escaped with his life. 245 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 8: I don't remember if it was a maintenance person or 246 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 8: a pilot, but somebody was almost killed. Apparently he didn't 247 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 8: like the noise from the planes and the opposed expansion 248 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 8: of this airport, and in her version, he did it. 249 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 8: She didn't want him to. She thought it was a 250 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 8: stupid idea. 251 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 9: She saw him once laying out this very elaborate system 252 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 9: of wiring to trigger a bomb from a distance. After 253 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 9: she told me this, went back and looked at that. 254 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,239 Speaker 9: It turns out there was a fire bombing of that airfield. 255 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 9: The one guy who was there sleeping in the barracks 256 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 9: had to run for his life from that fire. 257 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 4: The Santa Rosa Press Democrat reported on the fire on 258 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 4: October thirtieth, nineteen eighty three. 259 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 5: Small planes were melted and a towering World War two 260 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 5: hangar reduced to blackened rubble. An hour before sunrise today, 261 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 5: in a spectacular fire at the Santa Rosa Air Center. 262 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 4: Rosalind Fire District Chief Mike Vanatta said that at one 263 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 4: time fled were soaring one hundred feet in the air. 264 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 4: Arson was suspected there. 265 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 9: Was a big controversy, and the people who owned the 266 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 9: airfield believed that Michael and Judy together had done the bombing, 267 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 9: because they later took up a campaign publicly to try 268 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 9: to shut that airfield down too. Now, Judy denied strenuously 269 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 9: that she had anything to do with it. She said 270 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 9: she tried to get him to stop, but that he 271 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 9: had done it anywhere. 272 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 4: Indeed, just months after the arson at the airport, Sweeney 273 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 4: was in the newspaper complaining that so called touch and 274 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 4: go landings by student pilots were ruining his and his 275 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 4: neighbor's weekend barbecues, touched football games or Martiniz on the porch. 276 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 4: In April of nineteen eighty one, Sweeney called for the 277 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 4: airport to be shut down at a public meeting. Is 278 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 4: this evidence that Mike Sweeney planted the bomb in his 279 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 4: ex wife's car? Of course not. But it is the 280 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 4: kind of thing that should have pricked up the ears 281 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 4: of investigators, and the reality is that it didn't. And 282 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 4: there are even more troubling aspects of Sweeney's past, aspects 283 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 4: that Judy disclosed privately but denied publicly. After the break 284 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 4: In twenty fifteen, Newsweek magazine ran an article titled the last, 285 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 4: or at least luneiest newspaper in America. It was about 286 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 4: the Anderson Valley Advertiser from tiny Boonville, California. The article 287 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 4: focused on the eclectic newspaper, whose readers were split evenly 288 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 4: between locals and people from around the country. It is 289 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 4: an unusual paper focusing on local news, but with a 290 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 4: unique ability for getting notable writers such as Andrew Coburn 291 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,679 Speaker 4: and Christopher Hitchens to contribute the quality of writing in 292 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 4: gen role as high. It also has run into controversy, 293 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 4: especially because Bruce Anderson can use the paper in ways that, 294 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 4: to put it mildly, pushed the envelope of journalistic ethics. 295 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 4: Most notoriously, he published a made up interview with Doug Bosco, 296 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 4: the local congressman. Among other things, in the fake interview, 297 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 4: he called his constituents clueless potheads. Anderson initially denied it 298 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 4: was fake and then conceded, saying it was satire. Anderson 299 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 4: became friends with Judy Barry and published her writing. 300 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: Bruce at first was not real big on Earth first, 301 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: but then he got supportive of Judy and gave her 302 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 1: a column, and she wrote a whole bunch of columns 303 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: that she then collected into her book. 304 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 4: Judy's book timber Wars is a collection of her writings, 305 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 4: mostly from the Advertiser. After the bombing, Anderson saw Steve 306 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 4: talbots dot com documentary and became convinced that Mike Sweeney 307 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,879 Speaker 4: was the bomber. Began a decades long campaign of pushing 308 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 4: Sweeney as the perpetrator in the pages of the Advertiser 309 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 4: and being the Advertiser. It also ran rebuttals echoing his 310 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 4: fake interview with Doug Bosco. Anderson wrote similar pieces claiming 311 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 4: to be as told by Mike Sweeney. They were also satire, 312 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 4: but not all readers understood the joke. Regardless, Anderson's paper 313 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 4: was the primary source for the Sweeney theory of the crime. 314 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 4: They have a page on their website cataloging these pieces. 315 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 9: Steve Talbot I was up with my camera crew in 316 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 9: Willets where she was living in this town in the hills, 317 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 9: kind of isolated. She was still worried about being attacked. 318 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:56,959 Speaker 9: She's still being threatened. And she took me aside and 319 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 9: said I want to talk to you. I said, okay, 320 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 9: and we went for a walk on a little country 321 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 9: road dirt road near the cabin where she was living, 322 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 9: and she had this bad limp from the bombing. She 323 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,919 Speaker 9: never fully recovered from that. But she was walking along 324 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,320 Speaker 9: and she was very serious, and it was just the 325 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 9: two of us, and she said, I need to tell 326 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 9: you something. I said, okay. She said, I don't know 327 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 9: for sure, but I am afraid that the person who 328 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 9: put the bomb in my car, who tried to kill me, 329 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 9: is my ex husband, Michael Sweeney. And to me, that 330 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,959 Speaker 9: came out of nowhere. That was like a gut punch. 331 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 9: I had not investigated him at all. I had not 332 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 9: thought about him at all. 333 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 3: All. 334 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 9: The focus of our investigation had been on the police, 335 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:56,199 Speaker 9: the FBI, the logging companies, the loggers themselves, some of 336 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,719 Speaker 9: these other strange characters around Earth. First, I had not 337 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 9: thought at all, I must say, about Mike Sweeney. So 338 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 9: when she told me that, I was shocked, and I said, 339 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 9: why do you think that? And she said, look, he's 340 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 9: got a violent temper. We've had a bad divorce. He 341 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 9: has threatened me many times. He's abused me over the 342 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 9: course of our marriage and after the marriage, and she 343 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 9: said he had raped her. And again I was horrified 344 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 9: by that. News, and I was blown away. I just 345 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 9: didn't see this coming at all. 346 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 4: David Halvard, she told us, she told Steve. 347 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 8: She told me she told some of her women friends 348 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 8: and other people that he was very violent. That you know, 349 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 8: during their marriage, he had been her, he had threatened her, 350 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 8: and that he had also set off a bomb at 351 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 8: an airport when they first moved up there to Sonoma. 352 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 4: In my own research for this podcast, I've heard from 353 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 4: a number of people that Judy confided about Sweeney's abuse 354 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 4: to several close friends and associates. Judy publicly denied the abuse. 355 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 9: So she told all this to me on that walk 356 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 9: in this country road, and I was shocked. I was stunned, 357 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 9: and I realized, I've got to investigate this guy. So 358 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 9: I told David hell Art and we began to investigate Sweeney. 359 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 4: Steve Talbot found himself in a difficult situation after Judy 360 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,159 Speaker 4: disclosed this information. 361 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 9: Now what happened is Judy told me this in confidence, 362 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,760 Speaker 9: so she was a source, and I'm a journalist, and 363 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 9: I played by journalistic rules and I protected my source. 364 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 9: So I never said in the documentary that Judy had 365 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 9: told me any of this, but I laid out what 366 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 9: I knew from others and what I had learned about him. 367 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 8: So until she died, he couldn't respond that the reason 368 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 8: we had Mike Sweeney as a suspect is because of Judy. 369 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 9: Now, Judy then had a completely hostile reaction to my 370 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 9: doing that. She suddenly did a complete switch and said, 371 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 9: you're not supposed to say that. 372 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 3: Now. 373 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 9: Why did she do that? I think personally that it's 374 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 9: because her big public persona was that she was an 375 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 9: environmental hero and a victim of the logging industry, or 376 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:31,240 Speaker 9: of the police or the FBI. And the last thing 377 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 9: she wanted to be known as was a victim of 378 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 9: domestic abuse whose ex husband had tried to kill her. 379 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 9: So I gave her a lot of room to say that. 380 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,199 Speaker 8: And then when we actually put in the documentary, she 381 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,280 Speaker 8: insisted that we include, and Steve was the producer. He 382 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,920 Speaker 8: included a short video that was placed in the documentary 383 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 8: where she denied that her ex did it insisted that 384 00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 8: she was a victim of a conspiracy my industry. 385 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 4: When the documentary was aired, Judy wrote an article for 386 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,959 Speaker 4: the Anderson Valley Advertiser titled who Bought Stephen Talbot? It 387 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 4: was a full on attack on the film. 388 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 8: She wrote something like, well, I suppose I should thank 389 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 8: them for exposing the fact that I wasn't guilty, But 390 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 8: clearly he's been bought off by Big Timber because Big 391 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,199 Speaker 8: Timber or the FBI tried to kill me. 392 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 4: The article essentially goes after Talbot and Halvarg for not 393 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 4: making the documentary that she wanted them to make. That 394 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 4: documentary would have been about a conspiracy between the timber 395 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 4: industry and law enforcement. She goes into detail about what 396 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 4: she wanted in the documentary and also what she didn't want, 397 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 4: particularly mentioned of Mike Sweeney. She wrote, the. 398 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 10: Most outrageous of these charges is that my ex husband, 399 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 10: Mike Sweeney may be the bomber. She ends this paragraph 400 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 10: by saying, and I know my ex husband didn't do 401 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 10: it because he couldn't look at me in the eye 402 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 10: if he did. 403 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 4: She goes on to assert that Talbot wouldn't have looked 404 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 4: at the x spouse if the victim had been a man. 405 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 4: But Talbot wasn't looking at Sweeney until Judy told him 406 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 4: about the abuse. And even if you think that conversation 407 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 4: didn't happen, and everyone I've talked to vouches for Talbot's 408 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 4: rigorous ethics. There are things in Sweeney's background, circumstantial or not, 409 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,120 Speaker 4: that indicate that he should have at least been looked at. 410 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 9: As I look back on what she wrote, you know, 411 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,679 Speaker 9: she never fully denied that he had done the airfield bombing, 412 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 9: and she also still harbored this fear about him. Then 413 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 9: when I went around to talk to close friends and 414 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 9: associates of her, they told me, oh, yeah, we all 415 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 9: knew that. We all know Judy is afraid of Michael. 416 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 9: We all steered clear of him. He was a very 417 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 9: difficult guy with a bad temper, and yeah, we are 418 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 9: always worried about him. 419 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 4: There are other things that the people who suspect Mike 420 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 4: Sweeney bring up, and I'll touch on them briefly. A 421 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 4: professor at Faster College named Don Foster had gained notoriety 422 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 4: as a kind of textual detective by identifying the journalist 423 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,399 Speaker 4: Joe Klein as the anonymous author of the novel Primary 424 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,919 Speaker 4: Colors in nineteen ninety six, and it helped cement the 425 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 4: case against Ted Kaczinski. With his opinion that the Unibomber 426 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 4: letters were consistent with Kazinski's writings. He was given the 427 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 4: Lord's Avenger letter and writing samples from several suspects. His 428 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 4: conclusion was that Sweeney was a strong candidate as the 429 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 4: letter writer. In another strange moment in this story, Sweeney 430 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 4: almost unbelievably made a model of the bomb placed in 431 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 4: Judy's car. 432 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 7: He made a re book of the bomb and left 433 00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 7: it on a Judy, Barry frand supporter's front porch to 434 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 7: be used as a display. 435 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 4: The idea, apparently was to show how the bomb could 436 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 4: have fit underneath the seat of Judy's car. The replica 437 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 4: was convincing enough that the police were called. It's just 438 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 4: an odd thing to do. Regardless of whether he was 439 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 4: the bomber or not, he had to have thought that 440 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 4: he would be a suspect. It's an act that is 441 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 4: either naive or brazen, depending on what you think of him, 442 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:31,400 Speaker 4: or maybe just very strange. Either way, it's not evidence, 443 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 4: but it seems as though it would have raised eyebrows 444 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 4: at the time. Private investigator Josh Morcel, Judy. 445 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 11: And friends looked into a lot of different possible suspects 446 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,360 Speaker 11: in this case, and the theory that Sweeney did it 447 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 11: is one of maybe a dozen minor theories of the case. 448 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 11: I think it as interesting as a case study in disinformation, 449 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 11: it is not a compelling theory of the bombing. 450 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 4: In her article who Bought Stephen Talbot, Judy Barry wrote. 451 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 10: I think Steve Talbot actually convinced himself that, in the 452 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 10: midst of this incredibly heated political situation in which Timber 453 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 10: and police were cooperating to set me up like a 454 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 10: bowling pin for assassination, my ex husband stepped in and 455 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 10: did the job for personal reasons. 456 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 4: Set aside the heated prose and the point that if 457 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 4: Sweeney did it, it was for reasons unrelated to her 458 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 4: activism is correct, but does the bombing have to be 459 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 4: related to her political activity? Judy Darrell and others take 460 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 4: it as an article of faith that the bombing was 461 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,960 Speaker 4: an attempted political assassination. I can see where the atmosphere 462 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 4: at the time made it seem that way, but is 463 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 4: there actual evidence of this. Judy also asserts that Sweeney 464 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 4: did not have a motive for an attack. 465 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 10: He has no evidence that Mike is crazy enough to 466 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 10: try and kill them other of his children. My ex 467 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 10: husband and I have a cooperative relationship in our divorce, 468 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 10: and he has no motive at all to bomb me then, 469 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 10: But men seem to have a hard time taking a 470 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 10: woman seriously enough to consider her a political target instead 471 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 10: of a personal sexual target. 472 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 4: But Judy had already disclosed to Steve Talbot and others 473 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 4: that Sweeney was abusive. Whatever the motive, violence had occurred 474 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 4: in the past. Judy doesn't deny that Sweeney could have 475 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 4: made a bomb, but says that Talbot only has wildly 476 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 4: circumstantial evidence to show that he could. She's talking about 477 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 4: the Santa Rosa Airfield bombing, which we looked at earlier. 478 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 4: I don't know if that seems wildly circumstantial, but reasonable 479 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 4: people can disagree. Now we come to the part where 480 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 4: I think that suspicions about Sweeney run into their biggest roadblock. 481 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 11: So here's a question, right, if Mike Sweeney planned at 482 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 11: the bomb, where did he plant it? And we have 483 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 11: to ask, well, when was the bomb planted? Considering that 484 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 11: there was a motion trigger and an eleven hour and 485 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 11: fifty minute timer, the earliest the bomb was likely planted 486 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 11: would be midday when Judy was parked in Yukaya. The 487 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 11: car was parked right in front of the Mendocino Environmental Center, 488 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 11: right next to a busy street right in front of 489 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 11: the courthouse, lots of people walking around. Downtown Yukaya. Mendesino 490 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 11: Environmental Center is full of Judy's best friends. They had 491 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 11: a big glass storefront you could see out the window 492 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 11: to Judy's car. So had Mike Sweeney, in a town 493 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 11: where he lived, where people knew him, come walking down 494 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 11: the street put a bomb in her car right there? 495 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 11: What a crazy and risky place to put it. He 496 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 11: would likely have been seen, somebody would have remembered, and 497 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 11: even if somehow by chance, he wasn't seen, why would 498 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 11: he choose to plant it there? 499 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 4: To me, this is what needs to be explained. If 500 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 4: it was Sweeney, when and where did he place the 501 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 4: bomb in Judy's car. The timer sets the period in 502 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,000 Speaker 4: which you could have happened, and it doesn't seem as 503 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 4: though Sweeney would have been able to do it during 504 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 4: that period. 505 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 11: Since he lived next to Judy. If he wanted to 506 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 11: kill her, he would have his pick of times to 507 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 11: do it. Why would he pick such a risky opportunity 508 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 11: to plant that bomb? So if he didn't plant the 509 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 11: bomb in downtown Yukaia in the middle of the day, well, 510 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 11: then Judy in the early afternoon drove to the Bay Area. 511 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 11: So at that point and then the bomb was planted 512 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 11: in the Bay Area. Well, Sweeney had dinner at home 513 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 11: with his girlfriend and daughters that evening, so he would 514 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 11: have had to drive down without being noticed by them 515 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,680 Speaker 11: after dinner. Now by the time he arrived in the 516 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,920 Speaker 11: Bay Area, So Judy in the Bay Area, she went 517 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 11: to a meeting at Seeds of Peace in Berkeley and 518 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 11: then made a last minute decision at the end of 519 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 11: the meeting to go stay the night at dis man 520 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 11: David Kennetzer's house. 521 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 4: So even if Sweeney had driven all the way down 522 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 4: to Oakland and found the Seeds of Peace house, Judy's 523 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 4: car wouldn't have been there, and there was no way 524 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 4: to know that she'd left to go to Dave Kemnitzer's 525 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 4: place where it was, and so on, he. 526 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 11: Wouldn't have known where to go to plant the bomb. 527 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 11: So it's like pretty logistically improbable that Mike Sweeney planted 528 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 11: that bomb. 529 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 4: The theory that Sweeney planted the bomb has him doing 530 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 4: it in Yukiyah when Judy was at the Mendocino Environmental Center. 531 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 4: Josh just mentioned the trouble with that theory plus, like 532 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 4: some much else, in this case, there's just no evidence. 533 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 4: It doesn't keep Sweeney from being a suspect, but it 534 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 4: needs to be addressed for him to have pausibly done it. 535 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 4: Bruce Anderson has suggested that no one would have thought 536 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 4: anything about seeing Judy's ex husband, who lived on shared property, 537 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 4: dropping something off in Judy's car. That may be, but 538 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 4: after the bomb wouldn't they have a new perspective? Again, 539 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 4: it's conjecture. Mike Sweeney wrote a response to one of 540 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 4: Bruce Anderson's pieces in the Anderson Valley Advertiser in nineteen 541 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 4: ninety nine. He concluded the letter this. 542 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 5: Way, Judy and Daryl went off to the Bay Area 543 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 5: at least eighteen hours before the bomb exploded. The least 544 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 5: say the time around the bomb couldn't run more than 545 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 5: twelve hours. I wasn't in the Bay area. It's well 546 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 5: known that I was home in Redwood Valley the whole time, 547 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 5: taking care of our two daughters in ages nine to four. 548 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,480 Speaker 4: Mike Sweeney apparently lives in New Zealand now, but his 549 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 4: possible involvement in the car bombing is still controversial in Ecotopia. 550 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 3: Mike Janella, so the whole thing of You can't bring 551 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 3: Mike Sweeney up in the conversation because it's betraying something. 552 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 3: I've never understood that it's a disservice to them, because 553 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 3: I think you, you and I are kind of in agreement. 554 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 3: A thorough investigation was needed, and Mike Sweeney, whatever he's about, 555 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 3: and he's nowhere near as personable as his ex lifeless, 556 00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 3: I can tell you I know him. That's the point. 557 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,839 Speaker 3: It's just what we all need is in depth, hard 558 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 3: look at what went on here, and we didn't have it. 559 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 3: We didn't have it with Mike Sweeney's potential background. 560 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 4: After making his documentary, which was the most comprehensive investigation 561 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 4: of the bombing, Steve Talbot remained suspicious of Sweeney. 562 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 9: This is a guy who people should look at, who 563 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 9: would have a possible motive, and who had a history 564 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 9: of working with bombs and had, according to Judy, a 565 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 9: violent temper and someone who had abused her. So she 566 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 9: did not know for sure. She made that clear that 567 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 9: he had done the bombing. I never was able to 568 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 9: prove that he was the person who had done it, 569 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 9: but he certainly in my mind, remains a suspicious person. 570 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 9: Probably the most suspicious person. And then you know, he 571 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 9: tried to reinvent himself by running a recycling business in 572 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 9: Mendocino for a while and completely dissociated himself from Earth 573 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 9: first and from Judy, and then ultimately he left the country. 574 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 9: He went off to I Heard New Zealand never to 575 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 9: be heard from again. 576 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 4: The one thing that everyone who looks at this case 577 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 4: agrees on is that law enforcement, particularly the FBI, did 578 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 4: not aggressively pursue the case once their initial theory that 579 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,799 Speaker 4: Judy and Daryl were knowingly transporting the explosives proved to 580 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 4: be wrong. But was the initial investigation just wrong or 581 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 4: were Judy and Darrel's rights violated in the process? Next 582 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 4: Time Unripcurrent. 583 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 12: Rip Current was written and hosted by Toby Ball. Our 584 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,799 Speaker 12: executive producers are Trevor Young and Matt Frederick, with supervising 585 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:13,040 Speaker 12: producer remat el Kyali and producers Noames Griffin and Jesse Funk. 586 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 12: Original music by Jeff Sanoff. Our voice actor for Judy 587 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 12: Barry is Gina mckikey. Editing and sound design by Noames Griffin, 588 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 12: Riema el Kylie and Jesse Funk. 589 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 10: The show is mixed by Rima L. Kyli. 590 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 12: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 591 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 12: or wherever you get your podcasts.