Speaker 1: Evening. Everyone, Welcome to Midnight Chats. I'm Greg. I'm here
Speaker 1: with Stuart and Stu. Now, I think I could very
Speaker 1: easily say to you, this week's podcast is a cynical
Speaker 1: move to revisit an interview from the defining artist of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. Now that this artist and our podcast
Speaker 1: have much bigger audiences. What would you say to that
Speaker 1: scandalous accusation. I don't think I could argue with it.
Speaker 2: I think we need to just be upfront with our
Speaker 2: listeners and say we're bringing you an old interview right now.
Speaker 1: But that old interview is with Charlie XCX, currently the
Speaker 1: world's biggest artists.
Speaker 2: Exactly, and she did come on the podcast years ago
Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen. We'd love to have her back on.
Speaker 2: I'm sure Charlie's listening. Charlie, You're welcome anytime. Actually, let
Speaker 2: me just defend our cynical move. I think this is
Speaker 2: an interesting exercise. We've never played an old interview before,
Speaker 2: but this one is so far back that you know,
Speaker 2: people probably aren't aware it's there. You'd have to troll
Speaker 2: through the timeline forever to get to it. And as
Speaker 2: you say, it's with an artist who's having a crazy year.
Speaker 2: I cringed at the idea of listening back to this
Speaker 2: because it was so long ago, but I was pleasantly
Speaker 2: surprised at the finished product.
Speaker 1: I think first and most important question, where is all
Speaker 1: of your Brat merch? By the way, you know you're
Speaker 1: not wearing the T shirt and your hat and your
Speaker 1: sort of temporary tattoos and stuff.
Speaker 2: I've got a room for it. Look like that room
Speaker 2: in Alan Partridge. Excellent. I'm the biggest fan. I've got
Speaker 2: the tattoo on my chest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Can't see it here, but yeah, yeah
Speaker 1: it is there. Obviously. Like by this point, Bratt has
Speaker 1: transcended being an album, hasn't it. It's like turned into
Speaker 1: this like seemingly unstoppable cultural phenomenon from the Apple Dance,
Speaker 1: which you've obviously done a version of. I know that
Speaker 1: on TikTok to Kamela Harris getting the nods to be
Speaker 1: the presidential candidate for the Democrats, and then like changing
Speaker 1: all of our social channels to like the Brat a
Speaker 1: setting all the kind of like artwork and everything else.
Speaker 1: So yeah, we thought it'd be fun to revisit this
Speaker 1: this time that Charlie XCX came on Midnight Chats. I'm
Speaker 1: sure she is still thinking about it, as you say.
Speaker 2: This is a career highlight. One thing I would just
Speaker 2: ask you, Craig, do you think do you think we're
Speaker 2: bratted out? Do you think it's I know everyone was
Speaker 2: quick to say Brad Summer's over, yeah quickly. I there
Speaker 2: are lots of opinion pieces about that, but do you
Speaker 2: think generally speaking, because you know we are, we are
Speaker 2: bringing this out and we're talking a bit, We're talking
Speaker 2: about this episode on this podcast. We're going to play
Speaker 2: the episode. We're going to come back at the end
Speaker 2: and talk a little bit about our findings on it.
Speaker 2: But are we in danger of just people being like,
Speaker 2: for fux sake, not brat again. I'm over it. I'm
Speaker 2: sick of it because I feel like maybe we are
Speaker 2: getting to that point and maybe we have passed. Maybe
Speaker 2: there's just a bad decision.
Speaker 1: What you're saying, we're sharing our Charlie XCX interview when
Speaker 1: it's all about to disappear, Well maybe, but like, yeah,
Speaker 1: we aren't we at the start of bratt Autumn. Like
Speaker 1: Charlie XX said, there's going to be like another remix
Speaker 1: she's just had the biggest song off this whole campaign,
Speaker 1: the guest remix with Billie Eilisch. Obviously that's like been
Speaker 1: the biggest, sort of highest charting. So she's going to
Speaker 1: be thinking of ideas to try and keep it going, right,
Speaker 1: She's not going to just kind of like let it,
Speaker 1: let it fizzle off. Yeah, So I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say that like Bratt's summer is definitely over.
Speaker 1: But what's the next for the Bratt era? I'm not
Speaker 1: quite sure? Can you, like, before we play this out too,
Speaker 1: can you remind us so like set the scene, like
Speaker 1: when was it that you went to go and meet Charlie,
Speaker 1: Like where was it and what was happening in her
Speaker 1: world at this point?
Speaker 2: So this is in twenty eighteen, around October early November time.
Speaker 2: It was that it was at her record label, which
Speaker 2: is Warner Records. I think it was at Atlantic at
Speaker 2: their office, and it was quite stress. That's what I
Speaker 2: remember it. This is why I didn't want to listen
Speaker 2: back to it, because when we do this podcast, we
Speaker 2: say to the artists and to their teams that we
Speaker 2: need about an hour really to talk to them, to
Speaker 2: get into it and to be able to edit it
Speaker 2: into something where we're not losing too much of it,
Speaker 2: and that was sort of agreed, and I got there.
Speaker 2: It was quite early in the morning. That's quite rare
Speaker 2: as well. We don't tend to do these first thing
Speaker 2: in the morning. But I got to Atlantic Records, a huge,
Speaker 2: sort of glossy mainstream label.
Speaker 1: Big glass, funky building.
Speaker 2: Yeah, lots of TVs in the walls and ed sheer
Speaker 2: and post us.
Speaker 1: Up a bit like your bedroom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's already quite you know, an alien and intense
Speaker 2: environment anyway, But she had all of her team around her.
Speaker 2: She was in between albums. Her self titled album wasn't
Speaker 2: going to come out for another year yet, but she
Speaker 2: had just released a song called nineteen ninety nine. We
Speaker 2: were being crushed on time because she was about to
Speaker 2: go to Radio one to do an interview on whatever
Speaker 2: the show is after the breakfast show, I guess. So
Speaker 2: it was all a little bit rushed and there were
Speaker 2: a lot of people buzzing around. Normally, when we do
Speaker 2: these interviews, it's normally just us and the artist, isn't it.
Speaker 2: They come to us or we go to them, and
Speaker 2: it's just us in a room, and that way we
Speaker 2: can just get into it. There's no pressure, no one's
Speaker 2: feeling a bit self conscious or weird. And I think
Speaker 2: Charlie is probably used to loads of her team being
Speaker 2: in the room when she gives interviews, but I wasn't.
Speaker 2: And we were sat opposite each other in a very
Speaker 2: corporate but trendy room that made this room in a
Speaker 2: big class office look a bit like a club, like
Speaker 2: a lounge, just like a place. It's I think it
Speaker 2: was called the artist's lounge, right, So it's where artists
Speaker 2: when they come in they can play on a PlayStation
Speaker 2: and they's so and it was in there we were
Speaker 2: sat opposite each other, and I distinctly remember I presume
Speaker 2: it was her manager at the time. I'm not sure
Speaker 2: if she's got the same manager. I'm not all lovely people,
Speaker 2: I should say that, but her manager was sat over
Speaker 2: her shoulder in my eyeline. So I'm talking to I'm
Speaker 2: talking to her, and behind is a dude sat there
Speaker 2: sort of looking at me, sometimes looking away on his phone.
Speaker 1: So it was weird. It was weird, okay, So, and
Speaker 1: what did you make of Charlie? More importantly, that's where
Speaker 1: you were and when it happened. But what did he
Speaker 1: make of it?
Speaker 2: I think she's quite intimidating. You know, she's very cool, Like,
Speaker 2: she's an extremely cool person. She's a fair bit younger
Speaker 2: than me. She's had ten years younger than me, so
Speaker 2: I was probably aware of that. I was getting the
Speaker 2: feeling of being like, oh, you don't want to be
Speaker 2: doing this, you don't want to be talking to me.
Speaker 2: But then when I listened back to it, I realized that,
Speaker 2: actually she doesn't sound as bored as I thought she
Speaker 2: was during it.
Speaker 1: Well, listen, I think there's a lot of interesting stuff
Speaker 1: on this. In reflection, like you said, we dug this
Speaker 1: out of the archive, and we before we even decided
Speaker 1: to share it, we were like, let's go back and
Speaker 1: listen to it, figure out, you know, what was going
Speaker 1: on there. And I actually think it's really interesting and
Speaker 1: quite revealing. So we're going to talk about that afterwards.
Speaker 1: But here it is. This is Stuart Stubbs in conversation
Speaker 1: with Charlie XCX, with a note saying this was from
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3: I live half in la half in London, but I've
Speaker 3: been over in the States a lot, just because I've
Speaker 3: been on this tour with Taylor swift, sure, and we
Speaker 3: were doing the US leg so it's easier for me
Speaker 3: to be based out of the US right now. And
Speaker 3: when I write, I tend to write a lot in La, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: What side of the city do you live in there?
Speaker 3: I live in Beechwood Canyon, which is sort of right
Speaker 3: underneath the Hollywood sign, so nice. Yeah, it's very green
Speaker 3: around there, and you can actually walk a lot and
Speaker 3: you can do hiking, and there's quite a lot of.
Speaker 4: Europeans who live up there, which is nice, a lot
Speaker 4: of Swedes.
Speaker 2: I was in La this summer on holiday. I stayed
Speaker 2: in Silver Lake.
Speaker 4: Very cool.
Speaker 2: But that's the cool side, isn't it the hipside?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: But we I'd never been to Beverly Hills, so we
Speaker 2: drove around Beverly Hills for the first time. What did
Speaker 2: you think it's weird? Right?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean I don't go there that often, but yeah,
Speaker 3: it is a bit odd.
Speaker 2: I felt it was. It's kind of creepy because there's
Speaker 2: no pavements, right, because they didn't want anyone there, right, No,
Speaker 2: So it's really I'd always wanted to go and see
Speaker 2: what it was like, and it actually made me think
Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to live here. If I could live anywhere,
Speaker 2: I don't think I would live there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think the thing with la is
Speaker 3: like it's a great city when you know a lot
Speaker 3: of people and when you have a lot of friends
Speaker 3: there and when you're actually like doing stuff. But I
Speaker 3: think if you're not doing anything and you don't really
Speaker 3: know anyone, it can be quite isolating and lonely, just
Speaker 3: because you can't really walk around places. There isn't really
Speaker 3: that much like history there. I mean, there's a lot
Speaker 3: of Hollywood history and a lot of very interesting and
Speaker 3: fun things have happened there, but in terms of like,
Speaker 3: you know, you're not like walking around and seeing the
Speaker 3: sights because you can't really walk, and also there aren't
Speaker 3: that many sites, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sure, That's what I felt was weird about.
Speaker 2: What I thought was strange about Beverly Hills and bell
Speaker 2: Air was how isolated those people must fill in their
Speaker 2: massive houses because they probably.
Speaker 4: Don't care though, because they're like, oh, I'm in my
Speaker 4: nice house.
Speaker 2: Yeah I suppose.
Speaker 3: But I think that it's a city where you can
Speaker 3: really make what you want of it. Like when I
Speaker 3: started going there when I was sixteen to record, and
Speaker 3: I was so lonely when I went there because I
Speaker 3: couldn't party. There was no uber, so everything was such
Speaker 3: a nightmare to get to and I didn't really know anyone.
Speaker 3: And now I really really enjoy it there, just because
Speaker 3: I've built up such an amazing group of friends and
Speaker 3: most of them work in music, so it's like very
Speaker 3: collaborative and really fun.
Speaker 4: And I found like a nice little.
Speaker 3: Kind of space there that feels really homely and creative.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I think it's really a place where it's
Speaker 3: like you can make it into something really amazing if
Speaker 3: you like avoid all the kind of scary scary like
Speaker 3: Hollywood hell holes, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, What do you miss from each place?
Speaker 2: When you're in LA What do you miss about London?
Speaker 2: And when you're when you're here, what do you miss
Speaker 2: about La?
Speaker 3: When I'm here, I definitely miss being able to go
Speaker 3: into a restaurant and literally order anything.
Speaker 2: Even if it's off menu.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I think the best thing about America
Speaker 3: is you can, and especially La is you can go
Speaker 3: into a restaurant and you can say, can I get
Speaker 3: the burger please? But can I get it with avocado?
Speaker 3: With bacon. Can I get it with no bun? Can
Speaker 3: I sub the fries for a salad? And can I
Speaker 3: get like you just changed the whole thing.
Speaker 2: Did it take your while to get used to that?
Speaker 4: Because no, because I'm greedy. I was like in there straight.
Speaker 2: Away everything the kind of the Brita and me wouldn't
Speaker 2: do that, do you know what I mean? Too polite
Speaker 2: even if I'm like allergic to nuts and it comes
Speaker 2: to can I just take the hit on it?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: No, I just got embraced. I didn't realize it was
Speaker 2: actually a real thing. We can do that.
Speaker 4: It's really easy to do. So I missed that.
Speaker 3: And I also, this is weird, This is very La
Speaker 3: of me.
Speaker 4: I miss that. So in La it's like.
Speaker 3: A genuine conversation people will have that is a real
Speaker 3: conversation that people really care about is talking about restaurants.
Speaker 3: Like people love to talk about restaurants in La.
Speaker 4: But it's like not just small talk, it's like they care.
Speaker 3: It's like they'll be like, have you been to that
Speaker 3: restaurant on blah blah blah or in Lah Lah La Lah,
Speaker 3: And did you get the thing? Did you get the
Speaker 3: Brussels spouts? And they'll be like, Oh, I haven't tried
Speaker 3: the Brussel spouts. Oh you should try the Brussels spouts.
Speaker 3: Did you try the Brussel spouts at this restaurant? And
Speaker 3: it's like a genuine conversation that people really care about
Speaker 3: and it's so stupid and pointless, but I kind of
Speaker 3: really like it. But if you did that in London,
Speaker 3: people would be like, what the fuck are they talking?
Speaker 2: It's like their equivalent of us talking about the weather
Speaker 2: all the time.
Speaker 3: But it's not because I feel like weather chat is
Speaker 3: a bit yah, it's a bit like oh what do
Speaker 3: we do?
Speaker 4: Let's talk about the weather.
Speaker 3: This is like an in depth conversation that can go
Speaker 3: on for half an hour and it's a real like
Speaker 3: and people really care about it. People are like, oh,
Speaker 3: like that's I will check out that restaurant.
Speaker 4: So I kind of miss that. It's so stupid and
Speaker 4: pointless though, But.
Speaker 3: Then when I'm in LA I really you know what,
Speaker 3: Like I came back yesterday to the UK from New
Speaker 3: York and I was standing in an elevator this morning
Speaker 3: and I was just like listening to two guys talking
Speaker 3: the lift, and I missed like people being really British
Speaker 3: British accents. I miss like the crispness of the air here.
Speaker 3: I miss the sarcasm a lot. Like people in la
Speaker 3: are not sarcastic. They are so like hay, like yeah,
Speaker 3: it's really annoying. Like I just I miss like a
Speaker 3: sarcastic British like dark sense of humor.
Speaker 2: You know, because you grew up in Essex.
Speaker 4: Yes, whereabouts?
Speaker 2: I grew up in South End?
Speaker 3: Okay, I grew up in Bishop Staltford. I've been to
Speaker 3: South End Peter Pan Ride, Yeah, did.
Speaker 2: You go when it was still I think they've changed
Speaker 2: the name now.
Speaker 4: Have they. I haven't been for a while, long time,
Speaker 4: long time.
Speaker 2: What do you think of South End?
Speaker 4: I mean I loved it.
Speaker 2: It's kind of it's kind of it's gone down here,
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 4: Has it?
Speaker 3: I mean when I was younger, so I lived I
Speaker 3: lived in I lived actually out just outside of Bishop Stalford,
Speaker 3: but like Bishop Stalford.
Speaker 4: Was in my town or whatever.
Speaker 3: But I couldn't really like walk anywhere from my house,
Speaker 3: so it was like I was just like in my
Speaker 3: house until I could like drive. So that's why I
Speaker 3: really enjoyed like going to South End, going to Brighton
Speaker 3: and it was fun because you could like walk around
Speaker 3: or you can do stuff. It was like magical, magical places,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: So what were you up to? Where As you say
Speaker 2: you were pretty much housebound? Is that when you started
Speaker 2: making music because you were I did?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 3: I started making music not because I couldn't like go out,
Speaker 3: but more because I think I just wanted to, Like
Speaker 3: I just wanted a creative outlet, and this felt most natural.
Speaker 4: And music was a way of me being cool kind of.
Speaker 3: Like I made music because it was like escapism and
Speaker 3: I felt cool doing it and I wasn't really that cool,
Speaker 3: you know, so making music was like wow, like it's cool,
Speaker 3: I can do this. And I think when I was younger,
Speaker 3: I was really just trying to like emulate people who
Speaker 3: I admired, which I think, you know, I think we
Speaker 3: do a lot when we were younger, in any sort
Speaker 3: of field or walk of life. But yeah, it just
Speaker 3: felt like escapism and it felt good.
Speaker 2: Because you also went to Slade Fine Art College.
Speaker 4: I did.
Speaker 2: That's a hard college to get into, right, Yes, what
Speaker 2: was your what was your medium? Your art medium?
Speaker 4: So my time at Slade was very it was.
Speaker 3: It was hard, like I because I didn't do a foundation.
Speaker 3: So I didn't really understand art school at all. I
Speaker 3: didn't have the language, I didn't really have the skill set.
Speaker 3: I didn't know how to talk about art, and I
Speaker 3: also didn't really understand any of the bullshit, like art
Speaker 3: is so much bullshit and chat, you know, And now
Speaker 3: knowing that now I think I would have had I
Speaker 3: would have so much more fun there. But honestly, when
Speaker 3: I was younger, I was just very intimidated by people
Speaker 3: and scared.
Speaker 4: And that is like number one red flag of art school.
Speaker 4: You can't show.
Speaker 3: Your fear, you know, because then they just eat you alive.
Speaker 3: So I didn't really understand that it was all just
Speaker 3: one big game. So I went and I dropped out
Speaker 3: after like a year and a half actually because my
Speaker 3: music started happening for me.
Speaker 2: Were you painting or were you a sculpture?
Speaker 4: I was sort of.
Speaker 3: So when I went and I interviewed there, my portfolio
Speaker 3: was really heavy on video art and installations and photography
Speaker 3: not really that I'd done, but the picture's pictures of me, And.
Speaker 4: It was mainly like it was mainly I was making.
Speaker 3: A videos and I was making installations, but it was
Speaker 3: funny like I did this photo shoot with Rankin and
Speaker 3: the Supposo shoot with David Bailey, and I put it
Speaker 3: in my portfoilio, which was like really stupid, and they
Speaker 3: were like, oh wow, and yeah, I was like, it's
Speaker 3: but I said it was them. I was like, this
Speaker 3: is a collaboration that I'd done with David Bailey. Like
Speaker 3: I totally lied. But then the video, art and the
Speaker 3: installations were all made by me. But then when I
Speaker 3: got in I just sort of like suddenly decided that
Speaker 3: I wanted to paint, which I'd never done before. I
Speaker 3: was terrible at didn't know anything about painting. I didn't
Speaker 3: know how to stretch canvas, I didn't know how to
Speaker 3: didn't know what primer was, like the whole I was
Speaker 3: just such a rookie and so I'm not really sure
Speaker 3: why I didn't. I think it's because I had a
Speaker 3: friend in who was doing painting, and I was like, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: I'm really afraid of everyone.
Speaker 4: I'm just going to stick with you, which wasn't really
Speaker 4: the best idea.
Speaker 3: In hindsight, I think if I'd gone and done video
Speaker 3: and installations, I probably would have had more fun.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I didn't.
Speaker 2: So how did you set up a shoot with Rankin
Speaker 2: and David Bailey. How does that come about?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 3: Well that was because I was so I went to
Speaker 3: Slade when I was like nineteen eighteen maybe, and so
Speaker 3: I'd been making music since I was sixteen, so I
Speaker 3: was already doing shoots and I'd signed my deal, so
Speaker 3: I was always already doing like press and things, you know.
Speaker 3: So it was just the David Bailey the Ranking shoot
Speaker 3: was the first shoot I ever did, and that.
Speaker 4: Just came about.
Speaker 3: Hit his team or whatever contacted me directly, and he
Speaker 3: was making this book called Destroy where he basically shot
Speaker 3: a load of artists and then we had to destroy
Speaker 3: the image, whether that was like cutting it up or
Speaker 3: editing it or burning it or whatever. I made mine
Speaker 3: into a college and then it got printed in the
Speaker 3: book alongside the original. So that was that kind of
Speaker 3: was a collaboration.
Speaker 4: So I kind of didn't lie about that one that counts.
Speaker 3: And then the David Bailey one was just a shoot
Speaker 3: for Interview magazine and Vogue.
Speaker 4: That sort of lie.
Speaker 2: It was a good, good lie. Yeah, well yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Mean it was.
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess if I hadn't been there, the
Speaker 3: image wouldn't have happened.
Speaker 4: So it's a collaboration in that sort of way.
Speaker 2: It I think that counts. Is it true that you
Speaker 2: were playing warehouse parties from like fourteen?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Is that true?
Speaker 4: It's true.
Speaker 2: Wow, what can you remember from that? That must have
Speaker 2: been intense, because I raised intense when you're twenty four.
Speaker 3: I mean, it was like the coolest thing that had
Speaker 3: ever happened to me. Like I was so like excited
Speaker 3: to go and play, and I was so kind of.
Speaker 4: Awe struck by all of the people.
Speaker 3: There and the clothes they were wearing, and the drugs
Speaker 3: they were taking and the music that was being played.
Speaker 3: Like it was so exciting and so cool. I honestly like, Mike,
Speaker 3: because you know, this was happening when I was fourteen.
Speaker 3: My main reference point was Skins, So I was like,
Speaker 3: I'm in an episode of Skins.
Speaker 4: This is crazy, you know. And my other reference point
Speaker 4: was sort of watching.
Speaker 3: MySpace and looking at all of the profiles of artists
Speaker 3: I liked, particularly like a lot of artists signed to
Speaker 3: ed Banger, and like looking at like pictures of ed
Speaker 3: Banger parties and stuff.
Speaker 4: I was like, whoa, Like I'm in that in London.
Speaker 3: But the only thing that was sort of like getting
Speaker 3: my buzz was like my parents would come with.
Speaker 4: Me right sore.
Speaker 2: They cool though, Yeah, they were. They didn't like kind
Speaker 2: of no they.
Speaker 4: I mean they were around, but they weren't like smothering,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 3: They were very supportive and I think they also really
Speaker 3: enjoyed it as well, because my dad was kind of
Speaker 3: like reliving his youth and my mum was just sort
Speaker 3: of like what the fuck is going on?
Speaker 4: But it was cool. Yeah, they were, they were supportive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we would stay till late. We would stay at all,
Speaker 3: like six am. It was kind of what I old.
Speaker 2: Actually you were trying to drag them home.
Speaker 4: You're like, yeah, I was like, guys.
Speaker 2: We've got to go now. Yeah, and do you always?
Speaker 2: I mean that kind of all makes sense with what
Speaker 2: your your music is now and like ed banger and
Speaker 2: that you can hear that in your in your music,
Speaker 2: but your music is also kind of unapologetically pop music.
Speaker 2: The fact that you're definitely a pop star, but you're
Speaker 2: you've been embraced by the pitchforks of the world who
Speaker 2: wouldn't necessarily write about Taylor Swift, but they will write
Speaker 2: about you. Why do you think that is that that
Speaker 2: hip for want of a better word, world has kind
Speaker 2: of loves loves your music.
Speaker 4: I don't know really honestly.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think I'm a very good creator, and
Speaker 3: I always try my best to work with people who
Speaker 3: are you know, new and exciting and people who are
Speaker 3: really pushing the sounds in the field that they work in,
Speaker 3: you know. And I never want to work with anybody
Speaker 3: just because somebody's telling me there the newest, coolest thing,
Speaker 3: or they've got a number one or anything like. I'm
Speaker 3: not interested in that. I'm really interested in building like
Speaker 3: a community of people around me who are all very
Speaker 3: like minded in the way that we think about music
Speaker 3: and the way that we create things. And I've always,
Speaker 3: I don't know, I've just been true to myself in
Speaker 3: that sense, especially over the past three years. And I
Speaker 3: think that audiences now more than ever, really love authenticity,
Speaker 3: and I'm always very authentic to myself. So maybe that's
Speaker 3: why some people gravitate towards it. I don't really know,
Speaker 3: but I think also like in general.
Speaker 2: Like pop is cool, yeah it is now.
Speaker 4: Yeah it wasn't.
Speaker 3: It wasn't like ten years ago or whatever, but like
Speaker 3: pop's cool now, Like Taylor Swift is cool you know,
Speaker 3: like nineteen eighty nine is, like I would say, like
Speaker 3: a very cool record, Like a lot of my friends
Speaker 3: who make like very weird like electronic noise.
Speaker 4: Music love that.
Speaker 3: Love Taylor Swift and love that album so much because
Speaker 3: I think it's it's great. It's excellent pop music with
Speaker 3: great production and great lyrics and yeah, so I think
Speaker 3: pops just considered cool now as well, you know, so
Speaker 3: people are less afraid to attach themselves to it.
Speaker 2: How was the Taylor Swift tour? Is it finished?
Speaker 3: Now? It's not finished. It's actually the US leg is
Speaker 3: finished and the UK leg is done. So we go
Speaker 3: to Australia for like a couple of weeks, three weeks,
Speaker 3: and New Zealand and then Japan and then we're done.
Speaker 2: And then you're done. How's it been?
Speaker 4: It's been long. We started in May and we ended
Speaker 4: that of November. It's been really good though.
Speaker 3: You know, it's like she's very welcoming and we knew
Speaker 3: each other beforehand, and Kamila and I are close and
Speaker 3: have written together and know each other quite well. So
Speaker 3: it feels it feels like, you know, sometimes you do
Speaker 3: big tours where you don't really like see each other
Speaker 3: and you don't really speak.
Speaker 4: You just kind of like do the show and that's it.
Speaker 3: But it feels like a kind of group of friends
Speaker 3: like on tour, which is nice.
Speaker 2: YEA, Because you've done other big ones, you know, did
Speaker 2: you tour with cole Play or you opened a show.
Speaker 4: I did a tour with them a long time ago.
Speaker 2: Because I mean that's as big. I mean, that's big. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's big, Katie Perry, that's big. Do you like the
Speaker 2: big ones honestly?
Speaker 3: Like A, No, I actually, I mean I don't not
Speaker 3: like them, otherwise we wouldn't do it. But I do
Speaker 3: prefer you know, I think anyone prefers playing their own show.
Speaker 2: Sure.
Speaker 3: So I actually have sort of decided now after this
Speaker 3: tour with Taylor, I won't open for anyone again.
Speaker 2: Really, this is the last one.
Speaker 4: This is the last one.
Speaker 3: And it's not because any of the tours I've opened
Speaker 3: for people and have been bad experiences. They've actually all
Speaker 3: been really great experiences. It's just like I'm I feel
Speaker 3: like I'm that's just I'm done with that now, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm ready. Whilst I've been on Taylor's tour, I've also
Speaker 3: done some of my own shows and they felt more
Speaker 3: exciting than ever, and I feel like I really just
Speaker 3: want to put the time into that now.
Speaker 2: That's the thing. I guess if you're going on tour
Speaker 2: for the whole year with somebody else, it's taking time,
Speaker 2: isn't it.
Speaker 4: It takes time. It really does take time, and it's hard.
Speaker 3: To be motivated to do other things because you're very tired,
Speaker 3: and you're often in like Buffalo or like Minneapolis where
Speaker 3: they're maybe aren't.
Speaker 4: Like the best studios.
Speaker 3: They are a great There are good studios, but it's
Speaker 3: not like the same and their producers are in la
Speaker 3: or in Sweden, and you're sending stuff back and forth,
Speaker 3: which I'm into, like I've made a lot of pop
Speaker 3: two like that, But yeah, it's hard to sometimes it's
Speaker 3: hard to be like creative when you're kind of like
Speaker 3: moving around the middle of America.
Speaker 2: Because you write a lot for a lot of people
Speaker 2: as well. Is that something you can do on the road.
Speaker 4: It depends really.
Speaker 3: If it depends if someone's like sending you a track
Speaker 3: to write over, then yes. But if it's like it's hard,
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, you need to sort of go into
Speaker 3: the studio sometimes for that kind of thing.
Speaker 4: So it is it's not always easy?
Speaker 2: You wrote two songs for the last Blondie record. Yes,
Speaker 2: what was that like? Well, is that entailed? Does that
Speaker 2: entail like you're just submitting a song?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Actually, basically Chris reached out to me and was like,
Speaker 3: we love you and your stuff and we're making this
Speaker 3: album and sent me this like list of like mad
Speaker 3: references and was like, do you have anything, and I
Speaker 3: sent two songs. God, it was honestly so broad. It
Speaker 3: was like the most broad list of references ever. It
Speaker 3: was like they were like, we're.
Speaker 4: Working with CEA, but we're also interested in like Latin.
Speaker 3: Songs, and like Debbie's favorite song is lean On by
Speaker 3: Major Laser, and then like you know, referencing some of
Speaker 3: their stuff. It was like just really crazy.
Speaker 4: And I was like, ah, like what is happening?
Speaker 3: And so I just sent these two songs that i'd
Speaker 3: actually made when I was fourteen, and I just sent
Speaker 3: them through and they were like, we really like these
Speaker 3: and we want to kind of mess with them and.
Speaker 4: Make them our own. So they did that.
Speaker 3: We never actually went to the studio together, right, but
Speaker 3: I've met Debbie and Chris numerous times and they've always
Speaker 3: been really supportive of me, and and I was just
Speaker 3: really happy when they did their thing with.
Speaker 4: The songs, and I went to their show at the
Speaker 4: Roundhouse in.
Speaker 3: London with my mum and dad, and my mom was
Speaker 3: like freaking out, Oh my god.
Speaker 4: You know what. Debbie actually came to my Pop two.
Speaker 3: Show in New York and she came backstage she met
Speaker 3: my parents and my.
Speaker 4: Dad was like freaking out.
Speaker 3: It was really funny because my dad's met like a
Speaker 3: lot of artists through me, but I've never seen him
Speaker 3: really kind of like lose his shit before.
Speaker 4: And he was like, oh my god, like I'm such
Speaker 4: a huge fan. I was like, all right, Dad, play it.
Speaker 2: Cool man, come on, you like stuff embarrassing. Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: amazing though that they've got a song on the record
Speaker 2: that you wrote when you were fourteen.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's nuts. It's cool.
Speaker 2: And the other thing I just wanted to quickly ask
Speaker 2: you about was you have synesthesia, which, for listeners who
Speaker 2: might not know what that is, it's seeing music in colors. Correct,
Speaker 2: And there are some colors that you that you like
Speaker 2: more than others. Right, Yes, so you like songs that
Speaker 2: are like pinks and purples, yes, but you hate greens
Speaker 2: and browns.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've changed my opinion on green though, Okay, just
Speaker 3: because my whole new single is like based around the
Speaker 3: color green.
Speaker 2: So what for reference? What is what? To you? Is
Speaker 2: a what is a what is a pink and purple song?
Speaker 2: Then what what kind of Okay?
Speaker 4: So pink and purple song to me is like the Cure?
Speaker 3: Okay, Like Boys Don't Cry would be very like pinky
Speaker 3: purple song.
Speaker 4: Or Pictures of You.
Speaker 3: Also, like Blackout by Britney Spears, that whole album is
Speaker 3: kind of like pink and purple R.
Speaker 4: But then like brown and green.
Speaker 3: And this is like tough because I've kind of changed
Speaker 3: my opinion on this, but like Pitbull would be brown
Speaker 3: and green. But I actually really love Pitbull now, I
Speaker 3: kind of think he's great. Ag Cook really like turn
Speaker 3: me onto Pitbull. He was like, you need to like
Speaker 3: get over this and like really think about how good
Speaker 3: Pitbull is, and I kind of agree.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I guess.
Speaker 2: It's really hard because it's probably impossible to describe this.
Speaker 2: But what is it that makes Pitbull green and brown?
Speaker 3: I think it's like the tonality and like there's certain
Speaker 3: like production.
Speaker 4: Choices and the chords.
Speaker 3: Okay, it's it's hard for me to explain because I'm
Speaker 3: actually not that good at music theory.
Speaker 4: So there probably is like a very.
Speaker 3: Obvious reason to what I see and hear, but I
Speaker 3: just don't know how.
Speaker 4: To explain it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how's your year been? If you had a good year,
Speaker 2: We're at the end of the year pretty much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this year has gone so fast. It feels like, honestly, yeah,
Speaker 3: I have had a good year. I mean I've been
Speaker 3: on tour from May.
Speaker 4: It's been good. I just I'm excited to like release music.
Speaker 3: With like the support of everybody around me, which is cool,
Speaker 3: and I really just want to be in the studio
Speaker 3: get off the road. Yeah, like it's been fun, don't
Speaker 3: get me wrong. But I think, you know, like anything,
Speaker 3: you have too much of something and then you want
Speaker 3: something else. So that's how I feel right now.
Speaker 2: And there it is Charlie speaking to me back in
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen. What was your impression of her from hearing that.
Speaker 1: I thought she was very in control. I don't think
Speaker 1: she sounded bored like you thought that she might have
Speaker 1: at the time. I actually remember you coming back from
Speaker 1: doing this saying like, I don't know how that went. Sure, yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think like sometimes these interviews are like cheese, right,
Speaker 1: like they sort of mature and in time they get better,
Speaker 1: they go off. I think this one gets better. I
Speaker 1: don't think this one goes off. Yeah, So I thought yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought she Yeah, she's really cool. She's got such
Speaker 1: a kind of like collected sort of v I think
Speaker 1: she's pretty single minded about like what she's doing and
Speaker 1: where she's going basically, and it's really impressive.
Speaker 2: I think it's also always worth remembering that this is
Speaker 2: someone who has been doing this since she was fourteen
Speaker 2: years old. You know, she you know, a young woman
Speaker 2: in the music industry who she says there at the
Speaker 2: end that those songs that she gave to Blondie for
Speaker 2: their album she wrote when she was fourteen.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting that she went to art college
Speaker 2: because I think maybe that's something that has been missed
Speaker 2: out of the Charlie XX story, Like people think she's
Speaker 2: just a sort of pop disruptor who comes along and
Speaker 2: has made these pop songs that sound a bit kind
Speaker 2: of hyper pop. But she's clearly she's got this background
Speaker 2: at a very prestigious like Slade is a very prestigious
Speaker 2: art college here in the UK, and it's just wild
Speaker 2: that she was her you know, her work there included
Speaker 2: shoots Vogue, shoots she had done with David Bailey, Like
Speaker 2: such a strain, like such a such a weird two worlds.
Speaker 2: Like she's a young woman at at Art college, but
Speaker 2: she's also in parallel being a pop star on a
Speaker 2: major label doing shoots with world class musicians, and she's
Speaker 2: using that within her work. But it just went to
Speaker 2: show that she's been doing this a very long time,
Speaker 2: and she's been doing it since she's a kid, so
Speaker 2: of course she's going to just have a different approach
Speaker 2: to the world than your.
Speaker 1: I yeah, totally. I mean I think it's six years ago, right,
Speaker 1: so I think like there are certain things now that
Speaker 1: you can sort of unpick that wouldn't have you wouldn't
Speaker 1: have noticed at the time, but are sort of not
Speaker 1: obvious now, but are underlying, for example, that sort of
Speaker 1: sense of outsiderhood that she talks about being Art college
Speaker 1: and just growing up in general, just kind of feeling like,
Speaker 1: you know, not quite the fit, feeling different. That is
Speaker 1: sort of like the seeds of what Bratt is right,
Speaker 1: like that, in an essence, that's what this whole Brat
Speaker 1: sort of era is about of just kind of just
Speaker 1: being like of imperfection, of kind of a bit of outsiderhood,
Speaker 1: a bit of kind of messiness. And so it's sort
Speaker 1: of like, ah, well, maybe she was having those ideas
Speaker 1: back then, Like maybe she would even thought of like
Speaker 1: the brat concept back there. Maybe it was formulating, Maybe
Speaker 1: it was formulating whilst she was speaking to her for
Speaker 1: this podcast. I think that's probably the most bratt. I
Speaker 1: think you might have invented Brat. I think there's another
Speaker 1: thing going on at the moment where people are like,
Speaker 1: how intentional has this all been? Right? Like how Charlie's
Speaker 1: This is the release of Charlie's sixth album, so she's,
Speaker 1: as you've already pointed out, she's been doing this for
Speaker 1: quite a long time, Like is it just you know?
Speaker 1: And I saw people early on sort of saying I
Speaker 1: heard people early on saying, you know, this is kind
Speaker 1: of amazing, like she's hit a sixth album and then
Speaker 1: she just hit this like really steep ascent, Like is
Speaker 1: that just kind of like luck? Is it by design?
Speaker 1: I think it's listening to Charlie speak, it is so
Speaker 1: by design? Like she's she really has kind of gone
Speaker 1: for it with this whole concept, this whole album, and
Speaker 1: you heard it there she was as you spoke to us,
Speaker 1: she was like in the middle of a support tour
Speaker 1: with Taylor Swift, Like it doesn't get much bigger than that,
Speaker 1: But there she was saying, I'm done with this, like
Speaker 1: I'm not going to support any other artists anymore, Like
Speaker 1: I'm going to do my own thing. So in a way,
Speaker 1: it sort of feels like she's been building towards this
Speaker 1: brat point for maybe longer than we all thought.
Speaker 2: And she was talking back even in this interview. She's
Speaker 2: talking about authenticity, and that's the thing that everyone's been
Speaker 2: picking up on on this album, is that we are
Speaker 2: in an era where authenticity is the biggest currency within
Speaker 2: pop music and it's about people being themselves and telling
Speaker 2: putting it all out there.
Speaker 1: Is there any other reflections on the actual content of
Speaker 1: what you spoke to her about that you think you're
Speaker 1: interesting now with this passage of time that's gone by,
Speaker 1: I suppose the obvious thing is, like the Taylor Swift stuff, which.
Speaker 2: Is it going to be? It might be conspiracy theorists
Speaker 2: for us to get into that. Back then she was
Speaker 2: supporting Taylor Swift. They were obviously got on to a
Speaker 2: certain extent, or there was a mutual it was mutually
Speaker 2: beneficial for them to be on tour together, and now
Speaker 2: they're just in a very different place where that pitted
Speaker 2: against each other. I'm not sure how much of that
Speaker 2: is true, how much of that is media sensationalism, but
Speaker 2: I mean, you can't deny that some that lyric on
Speaker 2: Sympathi is a Knife on the new album is clearly
Speaker 2: aimed at Taylor Swift. I mean it's clearly aimed at
Speaker 2: the lyric. Let me get that lyric. There's a lyric
Speaker 2: in that track that says, don't want to see her
Speaker 2: backstage at my boyfriend's show, fingers crossed behind my back.
Speaker 2: I hope they break up quick. Allegedly about Swift going
Speaker 2: out with crazy Man Matt Heay, front man of nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy five. Charlie's boyfriend is the drummer George from nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy five, and so last year they would have been
Speaker 2: around each other a lot because she, you know, Taylor
Speaker 2: Swift was was going to those shows and being backstage
Speaker 2: with her boyfriend, who's the singer in the band But
Speaker 2: what I find in the whole Swift Charlie Xx battle
Speaker 2: is this whole thing about Taylor Swift releasing a special
Speaker 2: edition of her album the week Bratt came out going
Speaker 2: to number one, when Bratt was pretty much nailed on
Speaker 2: to go to number one, and blocking Charlie Xx having
Speaker 2: her first number one album. Oh, it's just too juicy,
Speaker 2: isn't it to like for people to not get into
Speaker 2: that because it's pretty juicy. I mean, even if let's
Speaker 2: say you're the Taylor Swift camp and it's not true
Speaker 2: you were going to release it. I mean, Taylor Swift
Speaker 2: release is a new, different colored final every other week
Speaker 2: to take advantage of her fans. And you know, let's
Speaker 2: say that was all planned, it was in the factory line,
Speaker 2: it was they couldn't pull it. Even so you should
Speaker 2: just admit. You should just lean into it and say
Speaker 2: that you did do it for that reason, because it's
Speaker 2: it's not standing up in court that it's just not
Speaker 2: is it. Someone releases a record that slags you off,
Speaker 2: and then you happen to put out your album again
Speaker 2: and that goes to number one instead of their album,
Speaker 2: Like you can't. You've just got to say this is unfortunate.
Speaker 2: I may as well own this and say, yeah, I
Speaker 2: did that, fuck you for slagging me off. I loved
Speaker 2: Matt Healy. He's a misunderstood soul. That's what the Swift
Speaker 2: Camp should have done.
Speaker 1: Listen st you before we go. I want to shout
Speaker 1: out that you did an interview with ag Cook not
Speaker 1: that long ago on midnight Chats. If anybody's listening to this,
Speaker 1: but they haven't listened to that. Ad Cook's long time
Speaker 1: collaborated with Charlie XCX has worked. You know, it was
Speaker 1: a major player on this Brat album. Anything in there
Speaker 1: that you sort of thought was particularly interesting people. If
Speaker 1: you recommend people go back and check out and who
Speaker 1: is it you Cook? Iive somebody it doesn't know who
Speaker 1: he is.
Speaker 2: I loved talking to Age Cook, brilliant producer, popularized hyper
Speaker 2: pop and these crazy beats that you can hear across
Speaker 2: the whole of BRAT. He was talking about the way
Speaker 2: he works with Charlie's. They don't really talk to each
Speaker 2: other very much. They just get in the studio and
Speaker 2: they're almost telepathic. But he did say in that interview
Speaker 2: actually that it was a bit different with Bratt and
Speaker 2: they thought about it a bit more, and they did
Speaker 2: sort of plan things a bit more, but I got
Speaker 2: the sense from what he was saying that was more
Speaker 2: about the campaign rollout, like you know, the remixes, the artwork,
Speaker 2: the aesthetic of it, more than the actual tunes themselves,
Speaker 2: I think. But it's a really interesting interview. We get
Speaker 2: into a lot of stuff, all the PC music stuff,
Speaker 2: working with Charlie and his bonkers growing up, like his
Speaker 2: childhood as well, which is which is all interesting here?
Speaker 2: That's been one of our most popular episodes on this
Speaker 2: new series, but not as popular Greg as Grim Chatton.
Speaker 2: Isn't it very popular? Listen?
Speaker 1: It's been great kind of replaying out that conversation with
Speaker 1: Charlie XCX. I mean, she's come a long way since
Speaker 1: playing like that boiler room set in February and Brooklyn
Speaker 1: where that was like the start of all of this,
Speaker 1: wasn't it? And like twenty five thousand people are SVP
Speaker 1: to try and like get on board with that. Where
Speaker 1: does this go next? You asked before, like is this
Speaker 1: the end of like Brat's summer? Is it the beginning
Speaker 1: of bratt autumn winter spring twenty twenty five?
Speaker 2: Like is there?
Speaker 1: It kind of feels plausible to me that in terms
Speaker 1: of what happens next, Charlie releases another like huge remix
Speaker 1: with Chapel Roone or like Troy Savan or something, then
Speaker 1: she's going to win the Mercury Prize, which you've we've
Speaker 1: both already agreed is nailed on right in September. She's
Speaker 1: probably going to perform at the Victory celebrations when Kamela
Speaker 1: Harris becomes the next President of America in November. Then
Speaker 1: she's going to be named album of the Year by
Speaker 1: basically everybody on the planet. And is she going to
Speaker 1: headline Glastonbury next year? What's What's where's this all going?
Speaker 2: Stew Well? I heard whilst I was at Glastonbury this
Speaker 2: year from a reliable source that because Charlie was booked
Speaker 2: to play, she did a DJ set on a very
Speaker 2: small stage there yeah called Levels, which no one could
Speaker 2: get into and everyone was upset about because everything was
Speaker 2: peaking and you couldn't get into the area. It was
Speaker 2: very small. And when asking the question of like, why
Speaker 2: isn't she playing a full set, the response I got
Speaker 2: was she is booked to headline the other stage next
Speaker 2: year at Glastonbury.
Speaker 1: But that was then, Yeah, the optics had changed on that, right,
Speaker 1: I mean there could be there could certainly be an
Speaker 1: upgrade on that. I think it probably does depend a
Speaker 1: little bit on what happens between now and then. She's
Speaker 1: definitely going to be at Glastonbury, and I'd say that
Speaker 1: headline headlining the other is probably an absolute bare minimum.
Speaker 1: I think it could very easily become the pier amid
Speaker 1: for sure. I do wonder what the public appetite for
Speaker 1: Charlie is now, just in the sense that everybody gets
Speaker 1: bored of everything. That's That's one of Taylor's fift's biggest
Speaker 1: problems is the fact that she's everywhere all the time,
Speaker 1: so it's so easy to get fed up with it,
Speaker 1: like it's just it's boring at this point, isn't it,
Speaker 1: whether you love the music or not. And the time
Speaker 1: that it takes for people to get bored is getting
Speaker 1: shorter and shorter and shorter, and Bratt has been so huge,
Speaker 1: it's been so big that it's it's I think she'd
Speaker 1: do good to maybe like go away, and I think
Speaker 1: she's been very smart in I don't feel like she's
Speaker 1: done much press. She's done like interviews with influencers online,
Speaker 1: but she's not done lots of mainstream press for a
Speaker 1: good reason, I think, and I think now she'll probably
Speaker 1: take the rest of the summer off, win the Mercury,
Speaker 1: do all those things you said. It'll be Britts, she'll
Speaker 1: win all the Brits.
Speaker 2: It's probably. We've probably got another year of Charlie being
Speaker 2: the thing, the thing, haven't we unless Dodgy reform.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then then there's under gets stolen. You know, we
Speaker 1: have heard rumors about a britpop band reforming. But more
Speaker 1: on that on next week's podcast.
Speaker 2: Yes, next week we will be back. It will not
Speaker 2: be an old interview. We will not be making a
Speaker 2: habit of dragging out with the old interviews. They're all
Speaker 2: there though, and we've got some incredible guests, so rather
Speaker 2: than us just dragging them out, scroll back through the feed.
Speaker 2: We've got everyone from tam In Parlor, Mark Ronson.
Speaker 1: Karen O personal favorite.
Speaker 2: Karen O, so many, they're all there, so listen to those.
Speaker 2: We'll be back with a brand new episode next week.
Speaker 2: But thank you for listening to this archive interview of
Speaker 2: us just talking a little bit more about Bratt. If
Speaker 2: you hadn't hand enough of it yet, I'll.
Speaker 1: Let you go and sit in your brat rooms to
Speaker 1: banks mate, go and get in the bratmobile.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Midnight Chats is a joint production between Loud and Quiet
Speaker 1: and Atomized Studios for iHeartRadio. It's hosted by Stuart Stubbs
Speaker 1: and Greg Cochrane, mixed and mastered by Flow Lines, and
Speaker 1: edited by Stuart Stubbs. Find us on Instagram and TikTok
Speaker 1: to watch clips from our recordings at much much more.
Speaker 2: We are Midnight Chats Pod. For more information, visit loudan
Speaker 2: Quiet dot com.