WEBVTT - Ep 145: Charli XCX archive interview revisited – not as bad as we originally thought 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:11.920 Evening. Everyone, Welcome to Midnight Chats. I'm Greg. I'm here 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:14.920 with Stuart and Stu. Now, I think I could very 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:17.960 easily say to you, this week's podcast is a cynical 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.119 move to revisit an interview from the defining artist of 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:24.120 twenty twenty four. Now that this artist and our podcast 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.600 have much bigger audiences. What would you say to that 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:30.360 scandalous accusation. I don't think I could argue with it. 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:33.159 I think we need to just be upfront with our 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:37.080 listeners and say we're bringing you an old interview right now. 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:39.760 But that old interview is with Charlie XCX, currently the 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:42.560 world's biggest artists. 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:44.680 Exactly, and she did come on the podcast years ago 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:47.839 in twenty eighteen. We'd love to have her back on. 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:52.080 I'm sure Charlie's listening. Charlie, You're welcome anytime. Actually, let 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:54.880 me just defend our cynical move. I think this is 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:58.360 an interesting exercise. We've never played an old interview before, 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:01.680 but this one is so far back that you know, 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:04.080 people probably aren't aware it's there. You'd have to troll 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:06.560 through the timeline forever to get to it. And as 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:09.200 you say, it's with an artist who's having a crazy year. 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:11.480 I cringed at the idea of listening back to this 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:14.120 because it was so long ago, but I was pleasantly 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.400 surprised at the finished product. 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:19.720 I think first and most important question, where is all 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.039 of your Brat merch? By the way, you know you're 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:23.959 not wearing the T shirt and your hat and your 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:25.520 sort of temporary tattoos and stuff. 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:27.400 I've got a room for it. Look like that room 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:32.039 in Alan Partridge. Excellent. I'm the biggest fan. I've got 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:33.199 the tattoo on my chest. 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:35.680 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Can't see it here, but yeah, yeah 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:39.120 it is there. Obviously. Like by this point, Bratt has 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:41.800 transcended being an album, hasn't it. It's like turned into 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:47.199 this like seemingly unstoppable cultural phenomenon from the Apple Dance, 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:49.440 which you've obviously done a version of. I know that 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:53.240 on TikTok to Kamela Harris getting the nods to be 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:57.200 the presidential candidate for the Democrats, and then like changing 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.520 all of our social channels to like the Brat a 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:02.080 setting all the kind of like artwork and everything else. 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:04.640 So yeah, we thought it'd be fun to revisit this 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:07.520 this time that Charlie XCX came on Midnight Chats. I'm 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:09.880 sure she is still thinking about it, as you say. 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:13.880 This is a career highlight. One thing I would just 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:16.400 ask you, Craig, do you think do you think we're 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:20.480 bratted out? Do you think it's I know everyone was 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:24.000 quick to say Brad Summer's over, yeah quickly. I there 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.200 are lots of opinion pieces about that, but do you 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:29.600 think generally speaking, because you know we are, we are 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.400 bringing this out and we're talking a bit, We're talking 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:35.320 about this episode on this podcast. We're going to play 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:37.639 the episode. We're going to come back at the end 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:40.240 and talk a little bit about our findings on it. 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:44.000 But are we in danger of just people being like, 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:47.040 for fux sake, not brat again. I'm over it. I'm 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.480 sick of it because I feel like maybe we are 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:53.000 getting to that point and maybe we have passed. Maybe 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:55.480 there's just a bad decision. 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:59.679 What you're saying, we're sharing our Charlie XCX interview when 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:05.160 it's all about to disappear, Well maybe, but like, yeah, 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:07.560 we aren't we at the start of bratt Autumn. Like 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:09.960 Charlie XX said, there's going to be like another remix 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.560 she's just had the biggest song off this whole campaign, 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.560 the guest remix with Billie Eilisch. Obviously that's like been 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:19.160 the biggest, sort of highest charting. So she's going to 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.400 be thinking of ideas to try and keep it going, right, 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:23.040 She's not going to just kind of like let it, 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:27.040 let it fizzle off. Yeah, So I don't know. Yeah, 0:03:27.040 --> 0:03:29.359 I would say that like Bratt's summer is definitely over. 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:32.800 But what's the next for the Bratt era? I'm not 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:35.320 quite sure? Can you, like, before we play this out too, 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:37.880 can you remind us so like set the scene, like 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:40.480 when was it that you went to go and meet Charlie, 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.880 Like where was it and what was happening in her 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:44.960 world at this point? 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:50.800 So this is in twenty eighteen, around October early November time. 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:53.840 It was that it was at her record label, which 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:56.920 is Warner Records. I think it was at Atlantic at 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:01.200 their office, and it was quite stress. That's what I 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:02.880 remember it. This is why I didn't want to listen 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:05.360 back to it, because when we do this podcast, we 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.480 say to the artists and to their teams that we 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:10.960 need about an hour really to talk to them, to 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:12.720 get into it and to be able to edit it 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.000 into something where we're not losing too much of it, 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:16.760 and that was sort of agreed, and I got there. 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:18.720 It was quite early in the morning. That's quite rare 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:20.440 as well. We don't tend to do these first thing 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.400 in the morning. But I got to Atlantic Records, a huge, 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:27.039 sort of glossy mainstream label. 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:28.440 Big glass, funky building. 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:30.920 Yeah, lots of TVs in the walls and ed sheer 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:31.520 and post us. 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:33.120 Up a bit like your bedroom. 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:38.640 Yeah, it's already quite you know, an alien and intense 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:42.200 environment anyway, But she had all of her team around her. 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.200 She was in between albums. Her self titled album wasn't 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:48.159 going to come out for another year yet, but she 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:50.960 had just released a song called nineteen ninety nine. We 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:53.200 were being crushed on time because she was about to 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:56.120 go to Radio one to do an interview on whatever 0:04:56.520 --> 0:05:00.080 the show is after the breakfast show, I guess. So 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:04.680 it was all a little bit rushed and there were 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.479 a lot of people buzzing around. Normally, when we do 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:10.200 these interviews, it's normally just us and the artist, isn't it. 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:11.839 They come to us or we go to them, and 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:14.560 it's just us in a room, and that way we 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:18.360 can just get into it. There's no pressure, no one's 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:21.440 feeling a bit self conscious or weird. And I think 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:23.440 Charlie is probably used to loads of her team being 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:25.599 in the room when she gives interviews, but I wasn't. 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:29.120 And we were sat opposite each other in a very 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:33.520 corporate but trendy room that made this room in a 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:37.680 big class office look a bit like a club, like 0:05:37.760 --> 0:05:39.839 a lounge, just like a place. It's I think it 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:43.040 was called the artist's lounge, right, So it's where artists 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:45.000 when they come in they can play on a PlayStation 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:50.720 and they's so and it was in there we were 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.600 sat opposite each other, and I distinctly remember I presume 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:56.200 it was her manager at the time. I'm not sure 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:58.679 if she's got the same manager. I'm not all lovely people, 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:02.880 I should say that, but her manager was sat over 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:07.000 her shoulder in my eyeline. So I'm talking to I'm 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:10.520 talking to her, and behind is a dude sat there 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:14.000 sort of looking at me, sometimes looking away on his phone. 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:18.479 So it was weird. It was weird, okay, So, and 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:21.320 what did you make of Charlie? More importantly, that's where 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:23.040 you were and when it happened. But what did he 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:23.479 make of it? 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.719 I think she's quite intimidating. You know, she's very cool, Like, 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:30.560 she's an extremely cool person. She's a fair bit younger 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:32.800 than me. She's had ten years younger than me, so 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:37.080 I was probably aware of that. I was getting the 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.400 feeling of being like, oh, you don't want to be 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:41.960 doing this, you don't want to be talking to me. 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:45.400 But then when I listened back to it, I realized that, 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:47.839 actually she doesn't sound as bored as I thought she 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:49.640 was during it. 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:55.160 Well, listen, I think there's a lot of interesting stuff 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:57.200 on this. In reflection, like you said, we dug this 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:59.760 out of the archive, and we before we even decided 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:01.280 to share it, we were like, let's go back and 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:03.080 listen to it, figure out, you know, what was going 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.640 on there. And I actually think it's really interesting and 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.120 quite revealing. So we're going to talk about that afterwards. 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:11.400 But here it is. This is Stuart Stubbs in conversation 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:15.400 with Charlie XCX, with a note saying this was from 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:16.239 twenty eighteen. 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:28.120 I live half in la half in London, but I've 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.040 been over in the States a lot, just because I've 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.840 been on this tour with Taylor swift, sure, and we 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:34.720 were doing the US leg so it's easier for me 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:37.760 to be based out of the US right now. And 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.280 when I write, I tend to write a lot in La, right, Yeah. 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:43.720 What side of the city do you live in there? 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:47.200 I live in Beechwood Canyon, which is sort of right 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:50.600 underneath the Hollywood sign, so nice. Yeah, it's very green 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.040 around there, and you can actually walk a lot and 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:57.720 you can do hiking, and there's quite a lot of. 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:01.720 Europeans who live up there, which is nice, a lot 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:02.360 of Swedes. 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:07.120 I was in La this summer on holiday. I stayed 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:07.880 in Silver Lake. 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:09.160 Very cool. 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:11.680 But that's the cool side, isn't it the hipside? 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:12.000 Yeah? 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.360 But we I'd never been to Beverly Hills, so we 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:18.640 drove around Beverly Hills for the first time. What did 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:20.120 you think it's weird? Right? 0:08:20.480 --> 0:08:20.680 Yeah? 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:22.760 I mean I don't go there that often, but yeah, 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:24.160 it is a bit odd. 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.000 I felt it was. It's kind of creepy because there's 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:30.240 no pavements, right, because they didn't want anyone there, right, No, 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.520 So it's really I'd always wanted to go and see 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:35.600 what it was like, and it actually made me think 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:37.720 I wouldn't want to live here. If I could live anywhere, 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:39.240 I don't think I would live there. 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:41.720 Yeah, I mean, I think the thing with la is 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:46.080 like it's a great city when you know a lot 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:47.800 of people and when you have a lot of friends 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:52.280 there and when you're actually like doing stuff. But I 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.480 think if you're not doing anything and you don't really 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:58.480 know anyone, it can be quite isolating and lonely, just 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:02.440 because you can't really walk around places. There isn't really 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:05.880 that much like history there. I mean, there's a lot 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:09.439 of Hollywood history and a lot of very interesting and 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:11.600 fun things have happened there, but in terms of like, 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:14.160 you know, you're not like walking around and seeing the 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.720 sights because you can't really walk, and also there aren't 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:19.600 that many sites, do you know what I mean? 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:23.040 Yeah, yeah, sure, That's what I felt was weird about. 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:25.880 What I thought was strange about Beverly Hills and bell 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:28.560 Air was how isolated those people must fill in their 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:31.320 massive houses because they probably. 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.320 Don't care though, because they're like, oh, I'm in my 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:34.000 nice house. 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:35.720 Yeah I suppose. 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:37.840 But I think that it's a city where you can 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:40.240 really make what you want of it. Like when I 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:44.320 started going there when I was sixteen to record, and 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.000 I was so lonely when I went there because I 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:51.559 couldn't party. There was no uber, so everything was such 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:54.720 a nightmare to get to and I didn't really know anyone. 0:09:54.960 --> 0:09:58.840 And now I really really enjoy it there, just because 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:03.320 I've built up such an amazing group of friends and 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:06.400 most of them work in music, so it's like very 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:07.840 collaborative and really fun. 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:11.960 And I found like a nice little. 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:15.840 Kind of space there that feels really homely and creative. 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:18.680 And yeah, I think it's really a place where it's 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:21.200 like you can make it into something really amazing if 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:24.520 you like avoid all the kind of scary scary like 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:25.840 Hollywood hell holes, you know. 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.600 Yeah, yeah, yeah, What do you miss from each place? 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:31.680 When you're in LA What do you miss about London? 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:33.079 And when you're when you're here, what do you miss 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:33.640 about La? 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:38.600 When I'm here, I definitely miss being able to go 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:42.120 into a restaurant and literally order anything. 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:43.200 Even if it's off menu. 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:46.479 Yeah. I mean, I think the best thing about America 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.800 is you can, and especially La is you can go 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:53.600 into a restaurant and you can say, can I get 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:57.520 the burger please? But can I get it with avocado? 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.880 With bacon. Can I get it with no bun? Can 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.280 I sub the fries for a salad? And can I 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:06.080 get like you just changed the whole thing. 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:07.960 Did it take your while to get used to that? 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:11.119 Because no, because I'm greedy. I was like in there straight. 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:17.559 Away everything the kind of the Brita and me wouldn't 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:19.840 do that, do you know what I mean? Too polite 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.319 even if I'm like allergic to nuts and it comes 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:24.240 to can I just take the hit on it? 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:24.760 Yeah? 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:27.960 No, I just got embraced. I didn't realize it was 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.400 actually a real thing. We can do that. 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:34.360 It's really easy to do. So I missed that. 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:41.120 And I also, this is weird, This is very La 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:41.440 of me. 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:45.640 I miss that. So in La it's like. 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:51.720 A genuine conversation people will have that is a real 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:56.719 conversation that people really care about is talking about restaurants. 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:00.280 Like people love to talk about restaurants in La. 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.320 But it's like not just small talk, it's like they care. 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:05.160 It's like they'll be like, have you been to that 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:08.320 restaurant on blah blah blah or in Lah Lah La Lah, 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:10.280 And did you get the thing? Did you get the 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:12.160 Brussels spouts? And they'll be like, Oh, I haven't tried 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:13.959 the Brussel spouts. Oh you should try the Brussels spouts. 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:15.840 Did you try the Brussel spouts at this restaurant? And 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:19.160 it's like a genuine conversation that people really care about 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:22.080 and it's so stupid and pointless, but I kind of 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:23.959 really like it. But if you did that in London, 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:25.880 people would be like, what the fuck are they talking? 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:27.880 It's like their equivalent of us talking about the weather 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:28.360 all the time. 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:30.280 But it's not because I feel like weather chat is 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:32.960 a bit yah, it's a bit like oh what do 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:33.160 we do? 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:34.000 Let's talk about the weather. 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.040 This is like an in depth conversation that can go 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.680 on for half an hour and it's a real like 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:41.360 and people really care about it. People are like, oh, 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:43.199 like that's I will check out that restaurant. 0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:45.560 So I kind of miss that. It's so stupid and 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:47.160 pointless though, But. 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.559 Then when I'm in LA I really you know what, 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:53.240 Like I came back yesterday to the UK from New 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:55.440 York and I was standing in an elevator this morning 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.560 and I was just like listening to two guys talking 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:02.080 the lift, and I missed like people being really British 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:07.760 British accents. I miss like the crispness of the air here. 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:12.480 I miss the sarcasm a lot. Like people in la 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:18.120 are not sarcastic. They are so like hay, like yeah, 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.120 it's really annoying. Like I just I miss like a 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:24.080 sarcastic British like dark sense of humor. 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:30.080 You know, because you grew up in Essex. 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:32.000 Yes, whereabouts? 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:33.199 I grew up in South End? 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.520 Okay, I grew up in Bishop Staltford. I've been to 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.520 South End Peter Pan Ride, Yeah, did. 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:40.840 You go when it was still I think they've changed 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:41.520 the name now. 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:44.280 Have they. I haven't been for a while, long time, 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:44.880 long time. 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:46.559 What do you think of South End? 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:48.240 I mean I loved it. 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:51.640 It's kind of it's kind of it's gone down here, 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:52.199 I think. 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:52.360 Has it? 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.720 I mean when I was younger, so I lived I 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:58.880 lived in I lived actually out just outside of Bishop Stalford, 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:00.280 but like Bishop Stalford. 0:13:59.880 --> 0:14:01.200 Was in my town or whatever. 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:04.040 But I couldn't really like walk anywhere from my house, 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:05.880 so it was like I was just like in my 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:08.800 house until I could like drive. So that's why I 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.400 really enjoyed like going to South End, going to Brighton 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:13.360 and it was fun because you could like walk around 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:17.760 or you can do stuff. It was like magical, magical places, 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:18.080 you know. 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.360 So what were you up to? Where As you say 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:23.400 you were pretty much housebound? Is that when you started 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:27.360 making music because you were I did? 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:28.400 You know? 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.080 I started making music not because I couldn't like go out, 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:36.480 but more because I think I just wanted to, Like 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:42.400 I just wanted a creative outlet, and this felt most natural. 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:48.920 And music was a way of me being cool kind of. 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.360 Like I made music because it was like escapism and 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.400 I felt cool doing it and I wasn't really that cool, 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:59.000 you know, so making music was like wow, like it's cool, 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:03.800 I can do this. And I think when I was younger, 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.520 I was really just trying to like emulate people who 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:10.560 I admired, which I think, you know, I think we 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:12.880 do a lot when we were younger, in any sort 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:17.320 of field or walk of life. But yeah, it just 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:22.720 felt like escapism and it felt good. 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.880 Because you also went to Slade Fine Art College. 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:27.240 I did. 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.760 That's a hard college to get into, right, Yes, what 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:33.920 was your what was your medium? Your art medium? 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:41.000 So my time at Slade was very it was. 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.800 It was hard, like I because I didn't do a foundation. 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:53.200 So I didn't really understand art school at all. I 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.320 didn't have the language, I didn't really have the skill set. 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:00.480 I didn't know how to talk about art, and I 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:03.120 also didn't really understand any of the bullshit, like art 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:06.560 is so much bullshit and chat, you know, And now 0:16:07.040 --> 0:16:08.800 knowing that now I think I would have had I 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.760 would have so much more fun there. But honestly, when 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:15.320 I was younger, I was just very intimidated by people 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:16.080 and scared. 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:20.240 And that is like number one red flag of art school. 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:21.360 You can't show. 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.880 Your fear, you know, because then they just eat you alive. 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:26.400 So I didn't really understand that it was all just 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:31.280 one big game. So I went and I dropped out 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.440 after like a year and a half actually because my 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:36.760 music started happening for me. 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:39.160 Were you painting or were you a sculpture? 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:40.040 I was sort of. 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.800 So when I went and I interviewed there, my portfolio 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:52.080 was really heavy on video art and installations and photography 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:57.360 not really that I'd done, but the picture's pictures of me, And. 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.040 It was mainly like it was mainly I was making. 0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:02.640 A videos and I was making installations, but it was 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.120 funny like I did this photo shoot with Rankin and 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:07.320 the Supposo shoot with David Bailey, and I put it 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.719 in my portfoilio, which was like really stupid, and they 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.720 were like, oh wow, and yeah, I was like, it's 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:15.320 but I said it was them. I was like, this 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.359 is a collaboration that I'd done with David Bailey. Like 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:22.639 I totally lied. But then the video, art and the 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.359 installations were all made by me. But then when I 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:28.760 got in I just sort of like suddenly decided that 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:31.159 I wanted to paint, which I'd never done before. I 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.840 was terrible at didn't know anything about painting. I didn't 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:35.919 know how to stretch canvas, I didn't know how to 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:38.199 didn't know what primer was, like the whole I was 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:42.400 just such a rookie and so I'm not really sure 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:44.800 why I didn't. I think it's because I had a 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:48.120 friend in who was doing painting, and I was like, oh, okay, 0:17:48.160 --> 0:17:49.200 I'm really afraid of everyone. 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.359 I'm just going to stick with you, which wasn't really 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:52.399 the best idea. 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.840 In hindsight, I think if I'd gone and done video 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:00.720 and installations, I probably would have had more fun. 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:03.840 But yeah, I didn't. 0:18:04.000 --> 0:18:07.160 So how did you set up a shoot with Rankin 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:08.960 and David Bailey. How does that come about? 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:09.160 Oh? 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:12.760 Well that was because I was so I went to 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:17.399 Slade when I was like nineteen eighteen maybe, and so 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:19.679 I'd been making music since I was sixteen, so I 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:23.879 was already doing shoots and I'd signed my deal, so 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:27.280 I was always already doing like press and things, you know. 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:32.080 So it was just the David Bailey the Ranking shoot 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:34.280 was the first shoot I ever did, and that. 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:35.199 Just came about. 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:38.960 Hit his team or whatever contacted me directly, and he 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:42.240 was making this book called Destroy where he basically shot 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:47.560 a load of artists and then we had to destroy 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:51.440 the image, whether that was like cutting it up or 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:55.000 editing it or burning it or whatever. I made mine 0:18:55.000 --> 0:19:00.040 into a college and then it got printed in the 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:03.199 book alongside the original. So that was that kind of 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:04.080 was a collaboration. 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.439 So I kind of didn't lie about that one that counts. 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:08.600 And then the David Bailey one was just a shoot 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:10.040 for Interview magazine and Vogue. 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:11.080 That sort of lie. 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:14.320 It was a good, good lie. Yeah, well yeah, I. 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:14.840 Mean it was. 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.159 I mean, I guess if I hadn't been there, the 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:18.360 image wouldn't have happened. 0:19:18.359 --> 0:19:20.720 So it's a collaboration in that sort of way. 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:24.359 It I think that counts. Is it true that you 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.480 were playing warehouse parties from like fourteen? 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:28.920 Yes? 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:29.560