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Speaker 1: Let's go now to an exclusive conversation with French President

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Speaker 1: Emmanuel Macron speaking with Bloomberg Stephanie Flanders in Berlin.

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Speaker 2: Roller and thank you for organizing the seventh look. I

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Speaker 2: hope the maximum number of items because I really believe

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Speaker 2: that we are at risk. To be honest, and it's

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Speaker 2: just a word. I think our own model was completely

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Speaker 2: changed and has to be research. And when you look

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Speaker 2: at the European model, largely based by the way on

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Speaker 2: the strength of German during Germany during the past decades,

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Speaker 2: we were based on exports and a big part of

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Speaker 2: the key industry can making industry. To China, we were

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Speaker 2: based on localst energy. Russian guys. We were based on

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Speaker 2: deferend umbrella from the US without any question, and everything

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Speaker 2: now is shaken. China has over capacities and is clearly

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Speaker 2: a competitive place, so it's no more secured place for

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Speaker 2: our exports. Russian war killed locals energy and the killer

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Speaker 2: of our competitiveness today is a big gap in terms

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Speaker 2: of energy prices every worse. This is why we have

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Speaker 2: to completely change our business and have an integrated energy model,

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Speaker 2: because we can deliver with nuclear and renewables, but not

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Speaker 2: without being integrated and very clearly Afghanistan. Some people are

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Speaker 2: gonna have doubts, and the potential change in leadership in

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Speaker 2: the US means that this is not a guarantee total total.

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Speaker 2: So this is I want to insist on that because

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Speaker 2: it's super important to assess fairly the fact that our

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Speaker 2: former model is over and this is not a question

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Speaker 2: of act adjustment. This is not the same world twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four, twenty twenty five. And on top of that,

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Speaker 2: we are making the same mistakes. On top of the

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Speaker 2: key elements I mentioned, we are overregulating and underinvesting. So

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Speaker 2: just if in the two to three years to come,

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Speaker 2: if we follow our classical agenda, we will be out

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Speaker 2: of the market, I have no doubt. So I think

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Speaker 2: what we have to deliver in the two three years

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Speaker 2: to come is capital market union. My view is that

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Speaker 2: we have to rush on energy beyond what we already decided,

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Speaker 2: which will be implemented for twenty twenty six, which will

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Speaker 2: avoid the big pick and the unstability of the energy

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Speaker 2: market we had during the past few years. We corrected that,

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Speaker 2: but we have to go much faster and further, and

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Speaker 2: we need this investment shock I mentioned and I think

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Speaker 2: the simplification agenda and the derec let's say pose in

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Speaker 2: terms of regulation, but even the regulation in some issues

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Speaker 2: it's absolutely critical.

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Speaker 3: Can you have any investment Can you have that investment

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Speaker 3: shop without issuance of joint debt?

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Speaker 2: I think you know the best way to deliver is

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Speaker 2: not to to create big trauma at the beginning by experience.

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Speaker 3: But you persuade, You persuaded the Germans before. Can't you

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Speaker 3: do it again?

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Speaker 2: This is true, but I was, if I want to

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Speaker 2: be fair, I was a little bit helped by a

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Speaker 2: colleague called COVID nineteen and it changed the reality. But

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Speaker 2: what I think we have an external systemic shock. I

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Speaker 2: think we have to assess that during the pandemic we

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Speaker 2: all experienced a symmetric shock for all our economies. And

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Speaker 2: this is why we made this move move with Chancellor Merkele,

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Speaker 2: and I think it was a unique movement. This is

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Speaker 2: really for me, a fundamental change of our EU. Now.

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Speaker 2: I want us to be totally aware of the fact

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Speaker 2: that we are leaving a symmetric shock on our economies

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Speaker 2: whose scale and magnitude is underestimated because the real location

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Speaker 2: factor is huge. Look at the chemical industry, in Europe

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Speaker 2: completely being relocated because of Irea I mentioned, if you

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Speaker 2: don't deliver the level playing filled agender, we will be

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Speaker 2: super happy with rich as a good regulation for European consumer,

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Speaker 2: but for no more existing chemical industry, and it will

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Speaker 2: be the same for still it will be the same

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Speaker 2: for I mean the existing business we have because of

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Speaker 2: energy costs and overregulation. So we have to fix energy

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Speaker 2: issue and overregulation and for me the single market and

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Speaker 2: energy and on top of that, diversification of our phoney

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Speaker 2: to reduce this discrepancy and acceleration of level playing field

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Speaker 2: agenda and pose in terms of regulation is critical. And

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Speaker 2: if we don't have the level playing field agenda, we

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Speaker 2: will be killed in this market. And in parallel, for

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Speaker 2: clean energy and artificial intelligence, we have to invest much

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Speaker 2: more rapidly and protect as well or key players, otherwise

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Speaker 2: they will be relocated in the US.

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Speaker 3: Lars Hendrik I mentioned the joint debt question, but actually

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Speaker 3: there's a broader issue here that you listen to President Macron,

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Speaker 3: you read the drug report, you read many speeches frankly

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Speaker 3: from from European leaders, but not from the German Chancellor,

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Speaker 3: not from German leaders assessing the threat to the growth

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Speaker 3: model in as fundamentally as this the stark language that

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Speaker 3: President Macron has used it just if looking on the outside,

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Speaker 3: if how will we get how does Europe move forward?

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Speaker 3: Rush forward on this agenda? If there isn't that understanding,

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Speaker 3: that same analysis at the top in Germany.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure that you don't share the analysis with

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Speaker 4: with mister with the Chancellor shots obviously he's a different person.

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Speaker 4: But I think the analysis that we need simplification what

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Speaker 4: you were just saying, we need more investment, we have

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Speaker 4: less regulation. I think that is something which you know

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Speaker 4: the chancell he also says, and I think that's a

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Speaker 4: fundamental issue. I think capital market union, as I said,

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Speaker 4: is an important step. But in the end, and you know,

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Speaker 4: he has been a remarkable European. I remember when you

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Speaker 4: first came. You're actually a chaperd for a while. If

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Speaker 4: I may say that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, both sapers together.

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Speaker 6: Right, But he has moved on a lot.

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Speaker 5: I don't think you should feel bad. I think it's okay.

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Speaker 4: And of course you know he there's a reason why

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Speaker 4: he's moved on, and so he you know, he came

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Speaker 4: on stage and he said, we want Europe, and you

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Speaker 4: give your speech, and there was a debate whether Germany

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Speaker 4: was responding appropriate to the to the young French president

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Speaker 4: who was doing that. But I think he was always

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Speaker 4: this good European and I think we're very lucky to

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Speaker 4: have him actually as a European. Also if you think

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Speaker 4: about the latest developments in your country, if I may

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Speaker 4: say so, mister president, and also in our country. And

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Speaker 4: I think the ultimate problem always in the end, and

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Speaker 4: you alluded to that in the previous round on AI

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Speaker 4: either just to the two or the European industrial policies,

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Speaker 4: that there's still no European answer to many of these things.

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Speaker 4: And if you know, an industrial policy and deregulation and

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Speaker 4: drug report makes that point and is Europe really ready

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Speaker 4: to give more power? You always also talked a lot

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Speaker 4: about the governance of Europe, and you know the way

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Speaker 4: we are organized with Commission and counsel and very powerful

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Speaker 4: national leaders, and that is a fundamental issue which I

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Speaker 4: think makes it very difficult. But I think this is

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Speaker 4: something which in the end is going to be again

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Speaker 4: a very important issue. So I think that is something

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Speaker 4: which is But I think that the Dragon reports on

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Speaker 4: the common debt, this is where I was getting here.

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Speaker 4: I think if I may say that, then you're closer,

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Speaker 4: of course than I am. I don't think it is.

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Speaker 4: The problem is not the common debt per se, But

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Speaker 4: I think it is that you want to make sure

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Speaker 4: that the money is spent properly and there's no moral

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Speaker 4: hazard with it. We discussed this long time, many many times.

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Speaker 4: So I think it requires also certain governance. For example,

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Speaker 4: you think about the Defense Union. I think if you

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Speaker 4: want common debt on the defense, you also need competencies

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Speaker 4: at the European level because you have to have the

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Speaker 4: decision power and the debt really hand in hand. So

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Speaker 4: I think the common debt is easier once you give

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Speaker 4: more of the governance also to the impavement. But that's

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Speaker 4: really a difficult issue. So I would you know, and

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Speaker 4: I think this is an ongoing process, but I think

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Speaker 4: what you're saying makes sense. But I think in the end,

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Speaker 4: the big disadvantage of Europe is really I mean, i'd

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Speaker 4: be interested in what you think is that we really

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Speaker 4: don't have in many of these areas this European vision

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Speaker 4: which you of anybody has actually he does, yes, but

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Speaker 4: it's not easy in Europe, you know, with and even

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Speaker 4: if I may say so, if Germany and France. You

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Speaker 4: said on Capitol Market Union in Meserbach, you have a

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Speaker 4: paper which took us I think ten years or something

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Speaker 4: to get a French and a German position on that.

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Speaker 4: Then the question is also is the rest of Europe

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Speaker 4: going to fall in line? That's also an interesting question

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Speaker 4: because they're getting more competent and more confident as well.

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Speaker 4: So the leadership of Germany and France is very very important.

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Speaker 4: I think the only way actually to move Europe forward.

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Speaker 4: I think that's also your view. But are the others

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Speaker 4: then also in the future more likely to fall in

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Speaker 4: line in terms of moving Europe forward?

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Speaker 7: Those are Can we move on just because you have

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Speaker 7: Maybe it took ten years to have Franco German agreement

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Speaker 7: on that, but we've only got a few days to

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Speaker 7: have Franco German agreement on the tariffs on Chinese electrical vehicles,

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Speaker 7: and you mentioned it in your speech.

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Speaker 5: On this stage.

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Speaker 3: A year ago, actually I spoke to Chancellor Schultz who

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Speaker 3: said he didn't want to see a trade war with China.

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Speaker 3: He didn't like tariffs. His minister earlier said something quite similar.

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Speaker 3: But there is a vote on whether those tariffs go

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Speaker 3: through on Friday, so can I just ask do you

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Speaker 3: think that will pass, that the EU governments will confirm

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Speaker 3: those tariffs.

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Speaker 2: I don't know before the vote. I can tell you

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Speaker 2: that I do supports the European Commission on that because

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Speaker 2: what I was speaking about electrical vehicles on the European market,

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Speaker 2: and what is a reality. You have the European car makers,

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Speaker 2: they go to the market and by the way, we

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Speaker 2: use our taxpayers money to subsidize the consumer to buy

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Speaker 2: these cars, and they have to compete with some car

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Speaker 2: makers producing in China with an existing advantage. But it's

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Speaker 2: part of the offshoring production because they produce in much

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Speaker 2: lower cost condition. But on top of that they benefit

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Speaker 2: from subsidies from the Chinese government. This is a bias

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Speaker 2: for your market. I think this is the question is

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Speaker 2: which model do you choose? Do you want to be

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Speaker 2: a consumer or a producer. And now this dilemma we

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Speaker 2: have twenty years ago for solar panels, we decided to

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Speaker 2: kill our markets and we exactly we had the same dilemma.

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Speaker 2: We did choose. We killed our industry. We had an

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Speaker 2: existing industry, we killed it, and we had we deployed

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Speaker 2: solar panels in a lot of places Chinese once, so

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Speaker 2: we created a dependency which could create some problem. We

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Speaker 2: experience that in COVID time, and we killed the ability

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Speaker 2: to produce on the European soil. It's not a good

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Speaker 2: idea when you need growth and you have to finance

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Speaker 2: such a social model as the one we have now.

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Speaker 2: The question is do we want a fair competition or not.

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Speaker 2: I don't want a fair competition. So the EU Commission

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Speaker 2: launched precisely a series of studios exchange with all the

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Speaker 2: car makers and just correct the level of discrepancies to

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Speaker 2: establish the level playing field, so you have something from

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Speaker 2: nine to ten for those who are less helped. And

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Speaker 2: I think the range is between twenty one and thirty

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Speaker 2: five percent tariffs for these car makers. But with evidence

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Speaker 2: and figures which could be which way exchanged with the

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Speaker 2: car makers and will be exchanged with the Chinese industry.

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Speaker 2: We already have retaliation. By the way, I can speak

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Speaker 2: with a clear of you because it's on Cognac, nothing

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Speaker 2: to deal with with with the car and I can

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Speaker 2: tell you that Cognac was never held by the French government,

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Speaker 2: so which means it is a pure retaliation. But this

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Speaker 2: is a matter of credibility for our market, and I

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Speaker 2: insisted that if you don't preserve the love of the

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Speaker 2: playing field, just don't hope that you want to produce

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Speaker 2: and preserve your industrial foot print in your hope.

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Speaker 5: You spoke to Chancellor Shows earlier.

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 5: Did you make progress?

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately you didn't even have any advisers in the room

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Speaker 3: and the reporters were unable as no chance of us

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Speaker 3: finding out.

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Speaker 2: So and I do respect all the positions and the

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Speaker 2: sensitivity of the market. I think the question is what

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Speaker 2: will become the Chinese market for the for the carmakers.

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Speaker 2: My view is that it did change during the past

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Speaker 2: few years and it should not be underestimated. This market

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Speaker 2: is not just a market open to our carmakers. You

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Speaker 2: can deploy through GVS good operations, but this is much

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Speaker 2: more competitive than it was a few years ago. Chinese

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Speaker 2: carmakers are super competitive and sometimes better than we are.

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Speaker 2: And this is a market in other capacities. And if

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Speaker 2: we don't protect but just restore the condition of level

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Speaker 2: playing field, we will be the adjustment zone of the

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Speaker 2: other capacities. Because the US just put a one hundred

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Speaker 2: person tax one hundred person tax undifferentiated, so let's wake up.

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Speaker 2: We live in the same world. You cannot have China

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Speaker 2: over subsidizing a lot of countries, even India and others

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Speaker 2: reacting to these subsidies, the US overreacting by one hundred

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Speaker 2: person Tife and the odd thing. You're welcome and it

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Speaker 2: doesn't fly. Otherwise we will be happy consumers of non

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Speaker 2: European producers. I can tell you we would have an issue,

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Speaker 2: of course in a few years time.

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Speaker 3: How important is it to have Europe You spoke about

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Speaker 3: the importance of Europe speaking with one voice in order

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Speaker 3: to get one voice on this would you be would

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Speaker 3: you agree to a delay or some kind of compromise

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Speaker 3: or you think I want.

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Speaker 2: To be efficient and find compromise and respect all the positions.

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Speaker 2: I think the I want to advocate the CEO commissions

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Speaker 2: they did a great job. It was both to do

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Speaker 2: so honestly, because they had a lot of pressure not

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Speaker 2: to do it. And in the DNA of the Commission.

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Speaker 2: You know that you work there, Larsendric, doing years. It

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Speaker 2: was not in the DNA of the European Commission to

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Speaker 2: work on this type of issue. And I think it's

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Speaker 2: for me. This is a signal that clearly we have

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Speaker 2: a strategic a much more strategic and geo strategic commission

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Speaker 2: as we wanted then before. But clearly I want to

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Speaker 2: insist in that we are not just a market of

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Speaker 2: consumers and we were used just to behave following these

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Speaker 2: nine and this is not a good idea and we

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Speaker 2: will have exactly the same issue on still industry. I

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Speaker 2: believe that on still industry we are much more aligned

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Speaker 2: with the Chancellor in Germany. I do believe. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: that on capital market union simplification we are very much online.

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Speaker 2: So I want to insist on the fact that there

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Speaker 2: is a very strong Forcal German alignment. Here is an

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Speaker 2: issue very sensitive for some key players in your country.

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Speaker 2: What I do respect. So the work has to be

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Speaker 2: finalized with European Commission and I'm optimistic. But today and

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Speaker 2: Arsdrig was right to mention it. We worked very hard

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Speaker 2: with Chancellor shots on these issues and I mean it

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Speaker 2: is very much aligned on capital market union simplification, a

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Speaker 2: bit to invest much more public and private money and

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Speaker 2: as well being much more reactive to protect our still

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Speaker 2: industry or chemical industry. So you have a strong Franco

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Speaker 2: German alignment set.

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Speaker 3: You talked about protectionism as an ugly word, and that

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Speaker 3: it's about having a different strategic and more realistic strategic vision,

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Speaker 3: as the US does and certainly as China does. I

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Speaker 3: wonder if, at the same time as having these tariffs

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Speaker 3: for a level playing field, if you were to support,

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Speaker 3: for example, finally moving ahead with Mercasore, would that send

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Speaker 3: a message to other parts of the world that Europe

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Speaker 3: is still open for business, that this is a specific

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Speaker 3: thing with China, But actually Europe is still very much

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Speaker 3: open to trade deals.

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Speaker 2: I'm in favor of any deal which will be fair.

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Speaker 5: Does it look fair right now?

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Speaker 2: Why? Because exactly the same reason level playing field. You

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Speaker 2: cannot impose a bunch of regulation to your industries and

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Speaker 2: your farmers that they are digesting by the way, because

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Speaker 2: it's not yet completed, and at the same time open

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Speaker 2: to economies totally designed with this regulation, How do you

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Speaker 2: want to explain to a farmer that it will be

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Speaker 2: it will not be allowed to use this pesticide, this

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Speaker 2: chemical ingredients and so on. And at the same time

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Speaker 2: on ease sector you say you are more than welcome,

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Speaker 2: you can come with your food without respecting the same world. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: I I never advocate regulation that I don't understand myself,

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Speaker 2: and I think this is a good rule and don't

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Speaker 2: be naive. We speak about Merco Shore Brazil just imposed

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Speaker 2: tariffs for if It as well, and in the care system.

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Speaker 2: They want to exclude public procurement for the deal from

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Speaker 2: the deal. They protects themselves, the protect the economies. And

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Speaker 2: my point is just we I think a lot of

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Speaker 2: people in Europe underestimated what happened during the past two

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Speaker 2: to three years. But we had two huge shocks which

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Speaker 2: could completely change our approach. I and war in Ukraine,

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Speaker 2: the end of our energtical model and the end of

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Speaker 2: the WT or order I love Andngzi. I am a

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Speaker 2: strong advocate of the W two. To understand me, but

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Speaker 2: just for the first time in our recent histories, the

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Speaker 2: US decided not to be compliant with the W two

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Speaker 2: for clintech. But this is two huge change. If we

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Speaker 2: stay and stick to the same policy we are, we

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Speaker 2: have no chance. And just look at the real location

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Speaker 2: of so many industries, so many part of our industries.

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Speaker 5: Just to follow briefly on Maca.

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Speaker 3: So because after you saw him, I think Chancellor Shows

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Speaker 3: gave a spe each today where he was proposing a

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Speaker 3: sort of Mercasare light that that the EU specific bit

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Speaker 3: of Mercasore, which doesn't involve some of the investment guarantees

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Speaker 3: and things which involve government needing to all agree. So

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Speaker 3: I just wondered, is that something that you would support

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Speaker 3: or would be resigned to that.

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Speaker 2: Happens without perfectly understand it is?

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Speaker 3: It is the bit of the Mercasore deal that has

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Speaker 3: been negotiated that only involves I think Lars Henry will

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Speaker 3: be an expert.

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Speaker 6: You can understand.

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Speaker 5: Well, I can only continue to.

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Speaker 6: Express strategically not understanding.

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Speaker 5: I can be very clear.

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Speaker 2: I'm afraid to understand.

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Speaker 3: Well, the truth is it could happen without you, that's no.

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Speaker 4: But I mean, I mean, you know, you know there's

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Speaker 4: a you know, sorry way, there's all these trade deals

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Speaker 4: have an EU part, EU only part, and then they

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Speaker 4: have something usually investment, which is national that has to

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Speaker 4: be approved by all national governments. And if you split

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Speaker 4: this and just to the EU part, it only has

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Speaker 4: to be ratified by the European Council. But because France

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Speaker 4: is in the European Council and without France is not

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Speaker 4: going to be ratified.

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Speaker 6: So if he doesn't agree, why.

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Speaker 3: Is your chancellor suggesting today that you just move ahead

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Speaker 3: with the EA that micro feels this way.

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Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I mean he still has to work with

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Speaker 4: France obviously, even if it's EU only, but he will

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Speaker 4: avoid going through all the national parliaments.

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Speaker 6: But let I mean, but you know that.

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Speaker 2: Carey, I mean favor. We negotiated and not even notified

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Speaker 2: a lot of trade dealdering the past few years. I

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Speaker 2: mean set with Canada, with Chinese, Chile, New Zealand and

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Speaker 2: some others, and these one are a good example of

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Speaker 2: those where we integrated the climate change issue because Paris

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Speaker 2: agreements if you implement it, and this is what we

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Speaker 2: decided to do, and I think we're right, it's sustainable

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Speaker 2: if you use the fact that you I mean, we

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Speaker 2: don't use our capacity to put pressure on our partners,

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Speaker 2: given the fact that we are a market on more

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Speaker 2: than four dred million consumers. But if you decide to

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Speaker 2: push your producers to make a move to be compliant

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Speaker 2: with perase agreement, which I do support, we have to

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Speaker 2: do two things at the same time, not just constraints

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Speaker 2: with milestones and new regulation. You have to invest to

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Speaker 2: help them companies our households and to make the change

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Speaker 2: acceptable and to preserve precisely part of their competitiveness. And

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Speaker 2: at the same time you have to use that to

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Speaker 2: make it a strategic instrument of your industrial policy. Otherwise

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Speaker 2: you have always to choose between climate sovereignty and an industry.

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Speaker 2: You can reconcile them if you are ready to use

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Speaker 2: it as a bargaining poorer. Don't you think that countries

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Speaker 2: are interested to have better access to the European market.

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Speaker 2: For sure, it's an instrument to create incentives for them

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Speaker 2: to be compliant and have the same level of regulation

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Speaker 2: than we have on these key issues. Otherwise, I can

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Speaker 2: tell you in the years to come, you will have

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Speaker 2: a majority to stop with the climate change agenda, and

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Speaker 2: people with dismant will dismantle the carbon neutrality agenda for sure,

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Speaker 2: because it's just it is not compatible. And I'm sorry

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Speaker 2: to say that, but in Marcosio it since you have Argentina.

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Speaker 2: When I hear the friend I've got relation with President Milay,

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Speaker 2: but I don't hear somebody with total is convinced by

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Speaker 2: the climate agenda and wants to deliver. A matter of fact,

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Speaker 2: and two years ago in Brazil we had complete a

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Speaker 2: skeptical guy on climate change. This is matter of fact,

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Speaker 2: So I'm totally in favor of trade. I think we

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Speaker 2: live in an open world. It provided a lot of

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Speaker 2: growth during decades in awaconomy. I think we have. It's

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Speaker 2: part of the change of our own ya. Just wake

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Speaker 2: up bus US and China. They do protect their market,

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Speaker 2: they do subsidize their economy. They do invest much more

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Speaker 2: than we do buss public and private innovation. So we

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Speaker 2: have to adapt ourselves.

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Speaker 3: One of the big features of your presidency in the

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Speaker 3: first few years, President Macaun was that strength at home

401
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 3: gave you strength in Europe. You made decisive reforms the employment,

402
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Speaker 3: many other things. You've got the fiscal house in order,

403
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Speaker 3: and that gave you the power to push things through.

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Speaker 3: I think many people here will be looking at the

405
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Speaker 3: time what has happened in the last few months in France,

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Speaker 3: the fragility of the new government under Monsieur Balny, and

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Speaker 3: wondering whether you still have that capacity to push through change.

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Speaker 3: Do you worry that it was a mistake to call

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Speaker 3: that election.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. Why because it never happened

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Speaker 2: without a coaptation in France to be re elected. So

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Speaker 2: I'm very lucid about my situation and we had a

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Speaker 2: relative majority without any partners, so I called for snap

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Speaker 2: elections for this reason. After two little bit more than

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Speaker 2: two years, well we delivered. I mean, during the past

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Speaker 2: two years we delivered the reform of indignification of unemployed people,

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Speaker 2: a pension scheme, reform, an immigration reform. I mean, when

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Speaker 2: I look around in Europe, I don't see a lot

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Speaker 2: of countries deploying such a reform agenda. So we were

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Speaker 2: under pressure, and I was very clear on the fact

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Speaker 2: that when you have the far right more than thirty

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Speaker 2: five persons, you cannot follow up during three years to come,

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Speaker 2: because I had three years to come without making a move.

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Speaker 2: But I think you should not see that as a

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Speaker 2: source of instability. The reaction of the French people was

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Speaker 2: the opposite, because if they had confirmed the thirty five

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Speaker 2: percent for the far right and what a lot of

428
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Speaker 2: people thought, I would have a far rightists prime minister.

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Speaker 2: Today it's not a case. So what we had for

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Speaker 2: the first time in our history, which is much more

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Speaker 2: the custom in your country and a lot of European country,

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Speaker 2: is a fragmented parliament. Fine, this is less our culture

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Speaker 2: to have cooperation between the parties. This is my problem,

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Speaker 2: so I'm trying to create this dialectic work between the

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Speaker 2: parties to work together. It's not a natural move, but

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Speaker 2: I'm reasonably optimistic about the fact that reasonable social Democrats,

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Speaker 2: Centrists and reasonable writers can work together for the years

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Speaker 2: to come to deliver strong agenda. And what we have

439
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Speaker 2: to do is first to preserve and digest all the

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Speaker 2: reforms we delivered during the past seven years, and we

441
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 2: have to deliver more for our young people. We have

442
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 2: to complete what we did on apprenticeship to have a

443
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 2: better and faster access to the markets. It's one of

444
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 2: the key points for the French system to have more growth.

445
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 2: We have to follow up what we did on the

446
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: unemployment system. We have to work on the access to

447
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 2: our labor market for senior workers, and we have a

448
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 2: lot of sectorial reforms to be launched. We have in France.

449
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: This is our chance, the ability even with a relative majority,

450
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 2: to deliver these reforms of the parliament. But I think

451
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: we can create dynamic and I do trust mister Banneer's

452
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 2: government to be in this situation to deliver useful reform

453
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 2: for the countries. Because the agenda is quite clear. We

454
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 2: have to modernize the country. To be part of this agenda,

455
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 2: we have to deliver the European scale and at the

456
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 2: same time we have to make more effort on social

457
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: coasion and stability of the country. This is normal in

458
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 2: the lifetime of the country after seven years, so I'm

459
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 2: totally elucid about that and optimistic. But I want to

460
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 2: focus on the fact that today the key points of

461
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 2: the reform agenda for me is at the European scale.

462
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: I think we put in place a lot of reforms

463
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: that now we have to deliver, and we have to

464
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 2: deliver in concrete terms. We have less lows to be

465
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 2: passed and what points in the pension scheme is for

466
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 2: the years to come and it's already voted, but the

467
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 2: key elements are to be decided at the European scale,

468
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 2: and I think if we want to improve our growth

469
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,719
Speaker 2: both in Germany and France, for me, the top of

470
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 2: my priority are at the European scale. So this is

471
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: a sort of reverse agenda if you compare with twenty

472
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 2: seventeen twenty twenty, is that today we have to focus

473
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: much more on how to simplify at the European scale,

474
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 2: how to accelerate on the energy market, how to accelerate

475
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 2: our financial services at the European skate. So I will

476
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 2: indicate much more energy at the skate because this is work.

477
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: We can unlock a lot of growth and potent shils.

478
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 3: But Las Henric, when you have a country coming to

479
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 3: these discussions that has a six percent of GDP budget deficit,

480
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 3: as France now has one hundred and ten percent debt,

481
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 3: is having to have an extended period to get back

482
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 3: within the convergence criteria, that is not a strong negotiating position.

483
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 6: You mean that country has that country being front.

484
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 4: I don't think that negotiation position of France depends on

485
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 4: the on the budget deficit. I think there's more to

486
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 4: that than just that one. And I think that the

487
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 4: European rules, I think on the deficit criterion, which have

488
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 4: been adjusted actually as the Minister was saying yesterday, very

489
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 4: much in line actually with a German debt rule. So

490
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 4: there's not that much difference here, and I think it

491
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 4: should be it should be applied, and I think, you know,

492
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 4: I think generally there's a question of debt in the world.

493
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 4: I mean, if you look at the US economy, they're

494
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 4: very much you know, over debted and if you look

495
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 4: at both sides of the aisle, all of it is

496
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 4: more spent, lower taxes, more subsidies, in some cases tariffs,

497
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 4: which are also not going to necessarily increase growth. So

498
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 4: I think the problem of debt in the world, I

499
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 4: think is an issue, and I think Europe needs to

500
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 4: be careful of, you know, having having prudent fiscal rules

501
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 4: and stimulus, and I think that's important. But I think

502
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 4: I agree with Aman with President Macrant that it is

503
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 4: much more of a European issue. I think the future

504
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 4: of Europe than it is a domestic French one, as

505
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 4: he has done a lot of the reforms when he

506
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 4: became president. I think labor market reforms, many of the

507
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 4: things you have done and I don't you know, and

508
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 4: I think they're the regulatory are more important than the

509
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 4: dead issues.

510
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: I mean to be just to highlight the point and

511
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 2: make it clear why are we in the situation. We

512
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 2: had an issue during the low growth this year, so

513
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 2: we have less written on our budget in terms of taxes.

514
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 2: This is why we have this discrepancy with the forecast.

515
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 2: And we had a difference in terms of focus with

516
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 2: some public expenditure at the local level, but more than that.

517
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: To understand the French metrics we started to diverge in

518
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 2: the eighties because we build progressively a much more generous

519
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 2: social model. The main factor of adjustment if you take

520
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 2: our balance sheet, I would say is clearly pension reforms

521
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 2: and healthcare system. This is a big bunch of where

522
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 2: we have discrepancies, and especially as well because in terms

523
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 2: of public expenditure we have so we have a social

524
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 2: model where it's one hundred person through the budget of

525
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 2: all the public administrations. This is why it was a

526
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 2: necessary to pass this pension reform. And I mean the

527
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 2: figures and the negotiation we'll see, but probably in the

528
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 2: next mandates my successor will have to pass another one

529
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 2: if they want to adjust. But the main focus and

530
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 2: I put my energy on one point, how to create

531
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: more activity? Because why did we accumulate so many deficits

532
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 2: and debt in the French model. This is because we

533
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 2: never fixed the mass unemployment. And during the past seven years,

534
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 2: because of our tax reforms, because our label laws reforms,

535
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 2: because our attractiveness agenda, we've been the number one country

536
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 2: in terms of attractive net during the past five years,

537
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: we created more than two million jobs. When we decreased

538
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 2: even with COVID, even with the cranins are by more

539
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 2: than two points. Our unemployment rates, so we are a

540
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: converging and this is the main topic because if we

541
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 2: had the same level of activity as Germany, we will

542
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 2: don't have public deficits and it's much smarter to look

543
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: to work on that than being obsessed by a short

544
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 2: term adjustment, which is a killer for growth. The top

545
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 2: priority of the French economy should be how to be

546
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 2: sure that to improve the activity rates of young people

547
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 2: because we have I think two to three points less

548
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 2: than Germany. Your system is more efficient we start. When

549
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,479
Speaker 2: I was elected, we had two hundred and fifty thousand

550
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: apprentices per year. We have nine hundred thousand. We are

551
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 2: converging with the German model. We still have some work

552
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: to be done at the university to better are located

553
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 2: off of training, but this is a primittee. Second reducing

554
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 2: unemployment rate again because we are not yet at the

555
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 2: German level, so we have to continue the reforms and

556
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: improve the rate of access of activity of senior workers

557
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 2: because we have two to three points less than Germany

558
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,320
Speaker 2: as well. And part of the explanation of these points

559
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 2: is the fact that we have not the same retirement age.

560
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 2: So the key drivers as is ones. Let's be clear.

561
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 2: So yes, you need political courage and you have to

562
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: be fair with your people. But solution is not to

563
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 2: have a short term adjustment by cutting some social expenditure

564
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 2: because it's super hard without any agenda, or over taxing,

565
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 2: because we don't have a lot of room to maneuver

566
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 2: in terms of taxation given the fact that we are

567
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 2: number one or two. It depends with Denmark in Europe.

568
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 2: Here's the gender.

569
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 3: I mean the cults that are being proposed, we had

570
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 3: them a little bit today that just for next year,

571
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 3: to make Monsieur Barney's numbers add up, we have a

572
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,840
Speaker 3: squeezing of the of the deficit by sixty.

573
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 5: Billion euros exactly.

574
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 3: Next year, some of which will be taxes on wealthy

575
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 3: individuals and big businesses. There are any higher taxes that

576
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:05,800
Speaker 3: you would.

577
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 2: Say will discuss that. I think having an exceptional taxation

578
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 2: on corporate is something which is well understood by large companies.

579
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 2: If this is for one year, given the level of

580
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 2: effought which should be made, but it should be limited

581
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: and we don't have to forget I mean, we have

582
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 2: not to forget the reality of our economy, the reality

583
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 2: of our competitiveness and our position. Just take an OCD comparison.

584
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 2: We are number one or two in terms of taxation.

585
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 6: We are.

586
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:45,759
Speaker 2: Not in the best year in terms of level of

587
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 2: activity and how working participation or how to be worked

588
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 2: per year. So this is what we have to improves.

589
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 3: But as you say, the most important things that you

590
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 3: can do for the long term is the reforms like

591
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 3: the pension reform, and that is another reason why people worry.

592
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 3: They look at the cost of the uncertainty of the

593
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 3: last few months and you say that the far right

594
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 3: threat has been contained with this new arrangement. But Marie

595
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 3: Le Penn wants to reverse that pension reform and tomorrow

596
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 3: she could call a confidence vote and probably bring down

597
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 3: the government over that. So do you think that there

598
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 3: will be opposition, will be an effort to overturn the

599
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 3: pension reform.

600
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 2: I think when you look at the figures and you're

601
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 2: sincere with people, all the reasonable parties will look at

602
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 2: the fact that this pension reform and these chymetris has

603
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: to be preserved. And we have a structure with all

604
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 2: our unions, and this structure now is very clear and

605
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: issued figure that it was a necessity to do so,

606
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 2: and after a dissolution you cannot change to parliament during

607
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 2: at least one year time. But I want What I

608
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 2: want to tell you is, at first I ask the

609
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 2: reality and the pricing of uncertainty by calling for these

610
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 2: nap elections. If I did not ask for this election,

611
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 2: I could be in front of you and you would

612
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 2: tell me, Okay, you cannot go the next you cannot

613
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 2: go for election in two and a half years. Look

614
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 2: at this course. They are air and they were in

615
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 2: a situation to call for a confident vote and force

616
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:28,399
Speaker 2: me for a dissolution, and I wouldn't answer. Now we

617
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,880
Speaker 2: were bold collectively, I took my responsibility. I asked the

618
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,240
Speaker 2: firm people, do you want them to go to govern

619
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 2: They answered very clearly no. Eleven million of my people

620
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 2: did vote for them. So it means that there is anger, fears,

621
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 2: and clearly some top priorities that we have to face

622
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 2: on security, on social justice on the ground, the situation

623
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 2: of poor neighborhood and so on, rural areas and so on.

624
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 2: So this is the agenda we will have to fix that.

625
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,760
Speaker 2: The government as in front of him, but they didn't

626
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,760
Speaker 2: give the floor to them, and look at the situation

627
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 2: everywhere in Europe. Look at what happened in Austria, look

628
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 2: at what happen in Nezerlands, look at what happen in Italy,

629
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 2: look at what's happening in a love of Leander in

630
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 2: your country. So this is why I'm a strong advocate

631
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 2: of EU growth agenda, because this is the only way

632
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 2: to give a return to our middle classes. Otherwise this

633
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 2: is a killer for them, and this is the only

634
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 2: way to reconcile economy and the reality of politics. But

635
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 2: don't you think that having farmers to which you ask

636
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 2: for reforms and efforts, and at the same time you

637
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 2: explain I will welcome the sawyer been coming from Mercursire

638
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 2: is the best way to kill the far right. I

639
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 2: can tell you for my country, not at all. And

640
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, do you think what

641
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 2: is the priority today for all of us? Delivering growth

642
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:03,319
Speaker 2: and political stability, fixing the society of our societies, and

643
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 2: convincing reasonable people and our middle classes not to go

644
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 2: to the extremes. But let's be clear, didn't we deliver

645
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 2: collectively good policies for our middle classes during decades we

646
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 2: delivered good policies to have the maximum of exports, the

647
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 2: maximum of profits, but they have a feeling sometimes for

648
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 2: good reasons. They were the adjustment factor of our economy.

649
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 2: This is why preserving level playing physics not just sacrifying

650
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 2: a lot of pieces of our economy where the middle

651
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 2: classes work. I try to be consistent.

652
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 5: You've been very clear.

653
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 3: I want to get onto a question from some of

654
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 3: the young people here, but just to very quickly follow

655
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 3: on on that, because you have defended very clearly why

656
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,280
Speaker 3: you took that decision to call the election in the summer,

657
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 3: and at the time you said it was for clarity,

658
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 3: and I guess some people would say you didn't get

659
00:39:55,760 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 3: the clarity. But would you make the same decision again, Yes,

660
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 3: because I sat in the next two years.

661
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 2: No, no, no. My view is that we have to

662
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 2: preserve now till the end of my mandate. But it's

663
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 2: important because this is a new phase of the political

664
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 2: modernization of France as well. I was elected in twenty

665
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 2: seventeen in this commitment precisely to go beyond the party system,

666
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 2: and I gathered with me people coming from the left,

667
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: the right, in the center on a common project. And

668
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 2: now the question is how to work collectively with not

669
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:37,879
Speaker 2: just my party but other parties. This is a new

670
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 2: way to move forward at the Parliament. But this is

671
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,680
Speaker 2: a very positive one for me, and this is the

672
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 2: only one to provide stability and not to be precisely

673
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 2: super sensitive to the extremes. At the same time, we

674
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,240
Speaker 2: need bold reforms and the agenda has to be bold,

675
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 2: and the Prime Minister was right to push some key

676
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 2: items of this agenda. And I know that a lot

677
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,760
Speaker 2: of men is us will will advocate for very important

678
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:07,719
Speaker 2: reforms from economic, social and and and and and from

679
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 2: a first point of view. But for me, we are

680
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 2: just building something. But look at the situation, nothing was sacrificed. Also,

681
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 2: reforms are preserved and this new government has to work

682
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 2: with parliament and progressively will build consensus. So I'm I'm

683
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 2: not naive, I'm a resonantly optimistic, but I think at

684
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 2: the same time we have to accelerate to deliver a

685
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 2: positive view agenda.

686
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 3: Lars Hendrik, the President, has spoken very clearly about how

687
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 3: he saw the challenge presented by the fact that you

688
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 3: had a third of the population potentially or voters voting

689
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 3: for the far right. Do you think I mean that

690
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 3: is obviously an issue here. Do you think it's realistic

691
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 3: for the center to continue to lock out the extremes

692
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 3: of in European politics?

693
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 4: I think this is a big issue right now also

694
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 4: in this country, in Germany, and if you look at

695
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 4: some of the elections you recently had in the Lenda

696
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 4: is a challenge. But I do think, you know, I'm

697
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 4: not a politician, but I do think not having them

698
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 4: part of the government to sort of disenchant them or

699
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 4: you know, show how they cannot do it, I think

700
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 4: that's the wrong strategy.

701
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 6: I think you should not have the main part of

702
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 6: the government.

703
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 4: I think the government has to deliver, and as you're saying,

704
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 4: I think showing to the people that you know, the

705
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:37,280
Speaker 4: growth and the economy and you know, inflation and healthcare

706
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 4: and all these kinds of issues are solved.

707
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 6: I think that's the.

708
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 4: Way to get the people to vote for you, because

709
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 4: I don't think in Germany when it's thirty or more

710
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:50,919
Speaker 4: percent of the people and vote for parties which are

711
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 4: very extreme. I don't think these people are very extreme.

712
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 4: I think you need to, you know, deliver to them

713
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 4: an important agenda and results and then they will vote

714
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 4: for the right thing. So I don't think the strategy,

715
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 4: but you're much much more of a politician here. To

716
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 4: include them and then to show that they can't govern,

717
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 4: I don't think that's the right strategy is also very risky.

718
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:16,839
Speaker 4: I think you need to do a good job as

719
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 4: a politician and offer and show to the people that

720
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 4: it's a good thing. So I think that's but I

721
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 4: think that's what you were saying as well.

722
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 5: I wanted to get to one of the should.

723
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 4: Actually say if I may say so, it's going to

724
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 4: say that in my closing statement that we had a

725
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 4: survey by Egon Sina surveying business people around the world

726
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:38,720
Speaker 4: what is the biggest challenge.

727
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:39,240
Speaker 6: For you right now?

728
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 4: And the number one challenge was nationalism and populism. So

729
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 4: this is clearly also a business concern. So it's not

730
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 4: good for the economy actually to have these kinds of results.

731
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 4: So I think this is actually very important one.

732
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 3: So one of the SMT students Global students, am I

733
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 3: Yagmurova from Kazaks Down, has has a question.

734
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:07,720
Speaker 6: Madame Flander.

735
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 8: Yes, as mentioned, my name is Emma. I'm a student

736
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,800
Speaker 8: here at SNC and I'm honored to be part of

737
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 8: the Young Voices program.

738
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 5: And our question is with.

739
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 8: A little lead in may you argue that deeper integration

740
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 8: within the European Union will strengthen EU ability to act

741
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 8: on the global stage, but at the same time others

742
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 8: fear that it undermines national sovereignty. In this regard, how

743
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 8: do you envision balancing further integration within EU and addressing

744
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 8: concerns about further European about national sovereignty.

745
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,399
Speaker 2: I thank you very much, by the way, I love

746
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 2: your country. Look, I think there is a there is

747
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,960
Speaker 2: a way to move forward and and this dialma is

748
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 2: very well known and I think is right. But I

749
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:05,799
Speaker 2: think we have to deepen the single market and we

750
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 2: have as well to increase subsidiety. And this is a

751
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 2: way to address this Dinama. When I say we have

752
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 2: to deepen single markets energy, for instance, telco telecom operators

753
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 2: and financial services. If you clearly deepen the single market,

754
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 2: because on this three sectors you don't have an evil

755
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:32,799
Speaker 2: single market. It was out of the initial perspective. If

756
00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 2: you build a single market at the same time, if

757
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 2: you alleviate as well as the burdens and the overregulation

758
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 2: on healthscare, on some other and there is almost no

759
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 2: impact on normal people because you just force people to

760
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 2: adopt the same regulation. It's a lot of noise work

761
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 2: and our full session for a lot of technicians and

762
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 2: the industry everywhere in Europe, but there is no impact

763
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 2: on the normal life. What makes people crazy with your

764
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 2: and integration is when just you bother households on their

765
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 2: normal life. Which is true, but this is a well

766
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 2: known anecdote. But when you force an olive oil producer

767
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,720
Speaker 2: to be compliant with such a regulation, when you force

768
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 2: to stop this geographical indication in this part of Italy

769
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 2: and France to be compliant with this rule, when you

770
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 2: force the hunter in one place not to do it

771
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 2: there but to help you allow the other one. I

772
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:36,000
Speaker 2: mean this feeling which is the resentment of some part

773
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 2: of our population to be blocked disrespected in the way

774
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 2: of life by leaders and by Europe, is due to

775
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 2: the fact that there is a sort of unadapted approach.

776
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 2: We go too much in the ittegrity. So for me,

777
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,360
Speaker 2: we have to stop over regulating all the details of

778
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 2: this way of life and focus on the big issues.

779
00:46:58,880 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 6: We have.

780
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 2: Our big we have much bigger issue than all these regulations.

781
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 2: We did it for good reasons. But now we have

782
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 2: to stop and digest. It went too far from a

783
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,240
Speaker 2: lot of these people. And I can tell you because

784
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,280
Speaker 2: I do agree with what you said on the reasons

785
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 2: of the far right votes and nationalism. As you mentioned,

786
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 2: sometimes it's about very tiny things, just they are fed

787
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 2: up with this other regulation and because they are hurt

788
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,799
Speaker 2: in their day to the life. But it's totally compliant

789
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 2: with deepening single markets in the critical areas because there

790
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 2: is an impact on them. So my point is, let's

791
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 2: focus on the big issues. Let's deepend single markets on energy,

792
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 2: teleco financial services, Let's create an actual single market on

793
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 2: AI and hydrogen. It's a super agenda for the years

794
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 2: to come. It's already an immense agenda. And let's stop

795
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 2: regulating on the nitty gritty and on the daily life

796
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:03,440
Speaker 2: for housulds, and we will count on the resentment on

797
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 2: the feeding noting nationalism, and we will deliver concrete results.

798
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 5: It's a president.

799
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 3: I want to take you right back the final question.

800
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 3: We've run out of time, but from where we started,

801
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 3: which was the sense of urgency you had in your

802
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 3: remarks that you felt everybody in Europe should feel about

803
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 3: the challenges facing the European growth model, and as you know,

804
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 3: often in Europe.

805
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 5: It's a moment of crisis.

806
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,319
Speaker 3: It's when politicians are looking over the ledge that they

807
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 3: actually have done things. Whether it's the global financial crisis

808
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 3: or as you mentioned, COVID, the invasion of Ukraine, all

809
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 3: of those things have forced changed. As an economist, I

810
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 3: would think that the fact that the EU could be

811
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 3: forty percent smaller than the US in twenty years time,

812
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 3: if it carries on like this is a pit of

813
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 3: a is a crisis, but it's a slow moving one.

814
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,439
Speaker 3: Will it take an outside force to force this kind

815
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 3: of change? And I wonder in that context, with the

816
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 3: return of Donald Trump as president, help you get some

817
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:00,399
Speaker 3: of this is down.

818
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 2: Look, I think it could have consequence of the defense

819
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 2: and security part of the agenda.

820
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,800
Speaker 5: For sure, good consequences.

821
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 2: Consequences, but I think we should be honestly, I don't

822
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,359
Speaker 2: want to speculate on the US elections. My point more

823
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 2: than that is that US is very strong partners. This

824
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 2: is a very important lie. But whoever will be elected

825
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:29,319
Speaker 2: and whatever the administration is, I think we have to

826
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:33,879
Speaker 2: be lucid on our situation. Europe is normal. The top

827
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 2: priority of the US. The US top priority is US,

828
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 2: which is normal unfair. The second top priority is China,

829
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 2: and for the rest it depends on the moment. They

830
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 2: are super loyal and reliable partner. In Ukraine, will it

831
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 2: class I don't know, but let's be clear. At the

832
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 2: same time, in Afghanistan we didn't have the call before,

833
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 2: and in the OCUS did. In Australia, I didn't have

834
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 2: the call before, but it's not a reproach. I try

835
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 2: to be lucid. The EU is not the priority of

836
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,439
Speaker 2: the US, and this is why part of the wake

837
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 2: up call period of time we are living and part

838
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,720
Speaker 2: of what we have to completely reshape is our defense

839
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 2: and security strategy. We are part of NATO no discussion,

840
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 2: We are stronger lives of the US no discussion, but

841
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 2: we have to derisk our model from the US agenda.

842
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 2: This is why we have to invest much more for ourselves.

843
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 2: We have to create much more European solutions. We have

844
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:40,359
Speaker 2: to preserve much more our financing for European solutions. This

845
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 2: is the top priority. But what you say is very important,

846
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,359
Speaker 2: and this is why I try to be vocal and

847
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:54,280
Speaker 2: removed under the pressure of crisis. When they were perceived

848
00:50:54,320 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 2: by our fellow citizens, the financial crisis and the COVID crisis.

849
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:06,720
Speaker 2: You are all here, business leaders, political leaders, intellectual leaders.

850
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 2: Our responsibility, your responsibility, our collective responsibility if to explain

851
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 2: our fellow citizens that this is a symmetric shock for Europe.

852
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 2: They don't see now the results and the consequences. But

853
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 2: our responsibilities is to pre empt the situation and to

854
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 2: act now. Otherwise it will be a rescue plan in

855
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 2: five to ten years time. It would be awkward. And

856
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 2: we know the situation. The figures are clear, the trends

857
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 2: are very clear. So our responsibility as leaders is precisely

858
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 2: to say, okay, we feel the pressure and for me,

859
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:47,640
Speaker 2: Europe can make smart moves when we have symmetric shock.

860
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 2: During the financial crisis, don't over estimate. We did react,

861
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,480
Speaker 2: but we didn't take automatically all the right decisions because

862
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 2: it was an asymmetric shock. And we fix this crisis

863
00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 2: much more slowly than the US because we were precisely

864
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 2: divided between north and south. It was a weakness. It

865
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,800
Speaker 2: was before bunking union and such a level of integration,

866
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 2: but it wasn't asymmetric shock, meaning we didn't have the

867
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 2: same interest. Today we can have in the nitty gritty

868
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 2: some different interests. You are much more invested in car

869
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:25,799
Speaker 2: making business. Fine, which creates this kind of discrepancy, but

870
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 2: in reality we are already aligned. Because it's already too late.

871
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:36,320
Speaker 2: If I'm fair, it's already too late. So we should

872
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 2: be aligned and just look at the situation. Whatever our

873
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 2: differences in the energy system could be or industrial system,

874
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 2: this is a symmetric shock for the European societies and economies.

875
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 2: So we have to precisely deliver this in depth reform

876
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 2: on our governance, on security and defense and the growth model.

877
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:00,080
Speaker 2: If just we want to deliver for our people, this

878
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 2: is the best way, buys the way to help all

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Speaker 2: the countries precisely to limit and get rid of the

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Speaker 2: extremes because they are just held by the recent amount

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Speaker 2: of people and the lack of collective efficients.

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Speaker 3: Ladies and gentlemen, you've had your marching orders from mister President,

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Speaker 3: and I think we have we've run out of time,

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Speaker 3: so thank you very much, mister President and Las Hendrick.

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Speaker 6: I thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: All right, you've been listening to an exclusive conversation with

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Speaker 1: French President Emmanuel Macron at the Berwin Global Dialogue event

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Speaker 1: hosted by our own Stephanie Flanders,