1 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psychopia Pictures 2 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts. 3 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 2: My name is Adam Zapp. I had a near death 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 2: experience by electrocution in February of twenty eighteen, in which 5 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 2: I was dead for eleven point five minutes, and I 6 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 2: remember trying to force some thought, just to make sense 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 2: of what was going on, and I thought, I think 8 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 2: I'm being electrocuted, and then all of a sudden, it 9 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: was just puff like I'd just woken up in this 10 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 2: place that I had always been from a nap. And 11 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 2: I wasn't Adam, I wasn't alive, I wasn't dead, I 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 2: wasn't anything. 13 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 3: It was just the state of absolute contentment. 14 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Alive Again, a podcast that showcases miraculous accounts 15 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: of human fragility and resilience from people who lives were 16 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:03,959 Speaker 1: forever altered after. 17 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 3: Having almost died. 18 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: These are first hand accounts of near death experiences and, 19 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:14,480 Speaker 1: more broadly, brushes with death. Our mission is simple, find, explore, 20 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 1: and share these stories to remind us all of our 21 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 1: shared human condition. Please keep in mind these stories are 22 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: true and maybe triggering for some listener, and discretion is advised. 23 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 2: I grew up in northern Ontario with a really small 24 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 2: rural community of like three hundred people, sort of in 25 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 2: like the Northern Canadian shield of just straight bush and 26 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 2: rolling hills and stuff, you know. I grew up in 27 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 2: I wouldn't say a religious family, but my mom was 28 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 2: Irish Catholic. 29 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 3: My dad was Irish. 30 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 2: Protestant, you know, And very early on I always spount 31 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 2: it weird that my dad wouldn't be able to go 32 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 2: to a Catholic Mass, and then going to this Protestant thing, 33 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 2: and I just remember going to Catholic Mass, you just feel. 34 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 3: Like this intense sense of guilty levied on people. 35 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 4: And oddly enough I. 36 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 2: Was supposed to go for like confirmation or something or 37 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 2: whatever it is when you do at like a young age. 38 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 2: I think I was in elementary school and I just 39 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 2: packed a big bag of cheerios and I took my 40 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 2: dog and I just left for the entire day in 41 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 2: the bush. And I remember my grandma was losing her 42 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: mind and we have to do this, and my mom 43 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 2: would just like these made a decision, let's just leave 44 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 2: that be. And then when I got into high school, 45 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 2: I was starting getting into significant amounts of trouble, and 46 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 2: I remember I didn't know what I wanted to do, 47 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 2: and my mom just you know, my husband ammerg nurse 48 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: for twenty five years, and she just said, why didn't 49 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 2: you try paramids? And I was like, okay, that's a 50 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 2: great idea. And so I ended up getting accepted to 51 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:41,839 Speaker 2: a couple of different colleges and I picked the one 52 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 2: that was furthest away from where I was living, because 53 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 2: it's just just need to get away from that. I 54 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 2: did paramiedics and I don't think there's another job that 55 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: could reflect my personality as much as being a paramedic, 56 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,399 Speaker 2: where you just your indoors, your outdoors. 57 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 3: You're a people's homes. It can be calm, it can 58 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 3: be wild. 59 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 2: It's just all these extremes of difference that you and 60 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 2: you never have any idea what's going to happen. 61 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 3: And I really appreciate that. 62 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 2: It's an interesting way to you know, you just go 63 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 2: into work and you're like, well, let's see what happens today. 64 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 2: And that statement keep me a lot of different things. 65 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: So the story really picks up about twelve years ago. 66 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: A friend of mine, he had got into opioids, you know, 67 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 2: he got in a car accident when he was in 68 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 2: high school. And this was in the old fashioned era 69 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 2: where they're like, oh, you have some pain, here's ten 70 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 2: thousand oxyconton good luck, come back, we need to refill. 71 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 2: And so obviously he got very addicted. That addiction turned 72 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 2: into introvie with drug use, and he was suicidal. And 73 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 2: he had tried to rehabit a bunch of different things. 74 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 2: Nothing was working, and so he had read about this 75 00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 2: kind of a hail mary iboca or eyebolgain, which is 76 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: an African psychedelic derived from the inner root bark of 77 00:03:55,320 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 2: the ibogatry. His parents took him down to Mexico and 78 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: he did this big. 79 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 3: Experience and it alleviated his addiction. 80 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 2: Completely and he came back highly spiritual, and he, you know, 81 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 2: all this drug use was gone. So after his experience, 82 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: I think the gravity of him being able to work 83 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: through his addiction, he felt somewhat obligated to help other 84 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 2: people and help them work through their addictions. And he 85 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 2: wanted to use iboga because of this significant impact it 86 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: had upon himself. But there are some interesting physiological side 87 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: effects that can occur with iboga. It's metabolized heavily in 88 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 2: your liver, and it can cause a prolonged q teth 89 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 2: period in your heart, which means the top of the 90 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 2: bottom part of your heart beat just a little bit 91 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 2: more separately. And that's not a big deal until it 92 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 2: gets further and further, and then it can become problematic. 93 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 3: And this doesn't. 94 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 2: Really occur in a lot of people, but if you're 95 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 2: trying to treat some someone who's been a drug addict 96 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 2: for twenty years, chances are they have some lever and 97 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 2: heart issues and so you're taking a very vulnerable population 98 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 2: and then giving them something that is a big treatment 99 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 2: for their body, so to speak. And so it was like, 100 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 2: I wuntch you down and we do this. 101 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 3: You're a paramedic. 102 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: And this at the time was not a schedule with 103 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 2: substance in Canada, so this was legal, entirely legal, and 104 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 2: so I read incredibly about it, like a lot of information, 105 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: and it was actually funny those these you know, physicians 106 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 2: writing these reports and they're just. 107 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 3: Like, we don't know how it does it, but it doesn't. 108 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 3: It just completely alleviates people's addiction in these massive doses. 109 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 2: And so I took a microdose of it and it 110 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 2: just sort of made it very clear of the amount 111 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 2: of anxiety and stress that with dealing with like, you know, 112 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 2: you see a bunch of really horrible things that were 113 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,679 Speaker 2: dead kids and this and that, and in the moment 114 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 2: you ever really have an opportunity to deal with something 115 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 2: because you can't. Like our job fundamentally is to apply 116 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 2: a level of order to a very chaotic situation. And 117 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 2: there was also sort of a culture of suck it up, 118 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 2: walk it off, rub some dirty on it, get back 119 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: to what you're doing. I was drinking a lot. My 120 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: relationship with my girlfriend at the time, who became my wife, 121 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 2: was you know, strained, just because I wasn't capable of 122 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 2: being vulable with anyone, let alone myself, and we just 123 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 2: were progressing down this path, and so I just felt 124 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 2: that I needed to try this, and so I did 125 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 2: it really small, like a microdose, and then something like 126 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 2: a light just flicked inside me, and I was like, 127 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: I need to do a full experience. I was ready 128 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 2: to let go of all of this stuff I was 129 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 2: holding onto, and my parents were like, you shouldn't do this, 130 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 2: it's dangerous. My wife was freaking out, and I'm like, 131 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 2: I don't think anything could have stopped me, I'm like, 132 00:06:53,400 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 2: I need to do this, and I ended up having 133 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 2: this I Boga experience. It was it was wild, and 134 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 2: it was like twelve hours of having all of these 135 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 2: horrible things I'd seen brought back up. And I remember 136 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 2: when it started, I was trying to look away from 137 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 2: it because I don't want to see, you know, somebody 138 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 2: inviscerated or the brain contents. And I remember this very 139 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 2: deep masculine voice. I was like, no, look at it, 140 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 2: and I was like okay. And I just spent the 141 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 2: time just seeing this and feeling very uncomfortable and sad 142 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 2: and scared, and then over the whole experience, I just 143 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: started feeling better. And I was just like, oh my god, 144 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: how does something like this exist? And people are just 145 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 2: wandering around holding on to every single thing that ever 146 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 2: happened to them, you know, and just bearing the weight 147 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 2: of life and fair because a lot of people do it. 148 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 2: But that's sort of made me realize the exploration of myself. 149 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 2: You know, going out and backpacking and seeing the world 150 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 2: is a very small facet of what you can experience 151 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 2: when you look inward. The Secondlary experience with iboga sort 152 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 2: of allowed me to realize how much issues I had 153 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 2: inside myself, how much insecurities and fear, and it was 154 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,239 Speaker 2: like scratching the surface. It's almost as if you develop 155 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 2: this identity when you're born. You're sort of this empty vessel, 156 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 2: and you're given a name, you're given an identity by 157 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 2: your parents, and then your behaviors are encouraged or they're 158 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 2: refuted by your parents and then your peer groups, and 159 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 2: then you just keep giving these positive negatives that you 160 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 2: identify yourself with. But that's not really you as much 161 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 2: as it is an accumulated identity. And it was understanding 162 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 2: that there was more to me than then accumulated identity, 163 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 2: a lot more to me than that, and it was 164 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: trying to get to a point of understanding what that was, 165 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 2: because all I'd ever really understood was that I am 166 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: just add up and a bunch of accumulated experiences. Several 167 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 2: years later, in twenty eighteen, February twenty eighth, I was 168 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 2: had been doing quite a bit of woodworking, and its 169 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 2: always been sort of a hobby of mine since I 170 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,840 Speaker 2: was kind of a kid. It just allows me to 171 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 2: sort of just be in a moment kind of thing. 172 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 3: And a friend of mine. 173 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 2: Wanted me to build in this big epoxy table. But 174 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 2: there's this wood edging mechanism. 175 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 3: People call it fractal woodburning. 176 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 2: You have two wires coming from a transformer, and on 177 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: one side you attach it to a metal or steel 178 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: spike or nail, and the other side you attach it 179 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 2: to a do or steel nail, and then you put 180 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 2: the nails on the wood. And so it's allowing the 181 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 2: electricity to go from the wires to the nail, and 182 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 2: the nail is just adding as a fundamental contact point. 183 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 2: You strip every possible safety feature from it. And what 184 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 2: it does is it takes one hundred and ten volts 185 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: of as from your wall and turn into like twelve 186 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 2: thousand of bold dcs and it basically burns or etches 187 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 2: this coral fractalesque pattern. But now there's one clever thing 188 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:11,640 Speaker 2: that also does it kills a bunch of people. 189 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 4: Yeah. 190 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 2: I'm not recommending this, and if I can really accentuate, 191 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 2: this is dangerous and it's weird. Normally I researched everything 192 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 2: quite significantly, and this I just didn't, you know, I 193 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 2: really what I just told you was learned afterwards. And 194 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 2: so we were at. 195 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 3: My house, at my shop, and we were. 196 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 2: Outside grabbing a beer, chatting, and ironically enough, he had 197 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 2: taken a high. 198 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 3: Bolted safety course like a week before. 199 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,080 Speaker 2: And so I'm using this and I'm kind of looking 200 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 2: at him, talking to him, and I got my insulated 201 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 2: boots on, and I'm holding the one electrode and I 202 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 2: had set it down, and I was getting ready to 203 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 2: move the other one with my other hand, and it 204 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 2: was incredibly humid out and as I was about to grab, 205 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 2: dropped the other one sort of arc into my hand, 206 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 2: and there was sort of just this snap into this 207 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 2: incredibly energetic and painful experience of just having twelve thousand 208 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 2: volts of direct current flowing through me. And it was 209 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 2: almost like someone just flipped a switch where it just 210 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 2: went from conversation with. 211 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 3: Mark to just ungodly amounts of pain. 212 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 2: It was just like my entire cellular structure as being 213 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 2: ripped into pieces. 214 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 3: And I just was trying to form thoughts in that. 215 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 2: Moment, but it was just it was so much energy 216 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,079 Speaker 2: just flowing through my one arm, across my chest and 217 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 2: out the other arm, completely devoid of any sense of 218 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 2: physicality or anything visually. 219 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 3: All I could see was just these cylinders. 220 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,319 Speaker 2: Or bars that went up and down forever that were 221 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 2: sort of iridescent green with orange somehow like overlapped on it. 222 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 2: And it was difficult to even think, you know, it 223 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,959 Speaker 2: was like someone telling you do a math test while 224 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 2: you have headphones with death metal on at full volume. 225 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,440 Speaker 2: Like it was just difficult to do anything. And I 226 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 2: remember trying to force the thought just to make sense 227 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,720 Speaker 2: of what was going on. And I thought, I think 228 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 2: I'm being electrocuted, and I don't think I'm breathing, and 229 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 2: then I just felt like I was falling for like 230 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:31,959 Speaker 2: a prolonged period of time, and then all of a 231 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 2: sudden it was just in a ways like as I 232 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:39,599 Speaker 2: was falling, I was getting smaller, and then all of 233 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 2: a sudden, it was just puff like I'd just woken 234 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,200 Speaker 2: up in this place that I had always been from 235 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 2: a nap. And I wasn't at him, I wasn't alive, 236 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 2: I wasn't dead, I wasn't anything. It was just the 237 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 2: state of absolute contentment, and it was like should have 238 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,600 Speaker 2: just floating in this singular point, devoid of a body, 239 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 2: no identity existing, and seeing spherically outwards from a singular point. 240 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 2: It wasn't so much as a void as it was 241 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 2: seemingly like outer space, but in the distance you could 242 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 2: see like these structures and gas clouds, stars and stuff. 243 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 2: But in this point that I was in was just pure, inking, 244 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 2: perfect blackness. 245 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:22,520 Speaker 3: And I just felt absolute contentment. 246 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 2: And I was there for whatever amount of time and 247 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 2: it's like timed in wasn't relevant, and I was just 248 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 2: being it was wonderful. And then all of a sudden, 249 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 2: I felt sort of this It was like a frequency 250 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 2: washing through me. It was like the rainbow fractals for 251 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 2: a lack of better term. It was like you had 252 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 2: just completely refracted white light into the rainbow of colors 253 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 2: and it was moving through me, and it was like 254 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 2: buffeting me, like was rolling through and it was sort 255 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 2: of this juxtaposition of like thoughts. 256 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 3: And feelings and emotions. 257 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 2: Like something was kind of communicating with and I guess 258 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 2: the gist of it was like it's okay. And I 259 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 2: didn't know what that meant because I was okay and 260 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, it is okay. And then I just 261 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 2: started being like pulled into pieces and we just becoming 262 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 2: the fabric of the universe. And it was the most 263 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 2: natural thing that ever could have happened. It was just like, yeah, 264 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 2: this is what happens next. It was the natural conclusion 265 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 2: to an existence. And as that was occurring, I started 266 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 2: being electrocuted again. That sort of jarred me out of 267 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 2: that state of contentment. I was being defibrillated. A paramedic 268 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 2: crew that I know quite well had showed up and 269 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 2: been like, oh, Adam's dead, and so they started Interassi's 270 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 2: needle on my shoulder, were giving me cardiac medications, and 271 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: they had defibrillated me at that point, and a defibrillation 272 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 2: takes point five seconds, but here was like prolonged and 273 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 2: spaced out, and now all of a sudden, as opposed 274 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 2: to just being this identity less consciousness, I was like 275 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 2: back to being Adam in space and I'm like, okay, 276 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 2: I don't I'm dead. I recall being electrocuted and now 277 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 2: I'm just in space. And I was there for like 278 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 2: a prolonged period of time and seemed that was just 279 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 2: thinking about myself and perhaps coming to terms with who 280 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 2: I was or decisions I had made. And I started 281 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 2: being electrocuted again, and that was the second to fibrillation. 282 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 2: And again there's two minutes in between the fibrillations, and 283 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 2: each defibrillation is zo point five seconds. But this whole 284 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 2: thing was like drawn out over this massive amount of time. 285 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 3: And then after the. 286 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 2: Second or during the second electrocution or defibrillation, I just 287 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 2: felt myself being like pull sucked or something. 288 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 3: And again that's this kind of I. 289 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 2: Think I'm just grasping at a term for describe something 290 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 2: that can't really be described. And then I perhaps was 291 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 2: vaguely aware of being in my body. Again, I think 292 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 2: I smelt burnt flesh, which would have been me. And 293 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 2: then I was in a coma for like six or 294 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: eight hours, and so you know, I eventually woke up 295 00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 2: in the ICU at that point and then you know, 296 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 2: kind of opened my eyes and was like, h I 297 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 2: just died. It's a very confusing thing to try and express. 298 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 2: It's like, you know, if a picture says a thousand words, 299 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: a psychedelic experience says a million pictures. And this, to 300 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 2: me is a psychedelic experience. So, you know, I woke 301 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 2: up from this coma in the ICU and I'm innobated, 302 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 2: which means that I have basically a tube going into 303 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 2: my lungs so that I can be artificially breathing, and 304 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:00,720 Speaker 2: I have a bunch of difference. 305 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 3: You know, I have a hole drilled in. 306 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 2: My bone with intrivenous access or terrassious access technically. And 307 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 2: I remember just waking up and my mom was standing 308 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 2: at the edge of the bed and. 309 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 3: She looked at me. 310 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,479 Speaker 2: I remember her saying, she's like, not funny at him, 311 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 2: and I kind of smiled and she was like, he's fine, 312 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 2: he's not brain dead and not fair enough. That was 313 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 2: a pretty good way of acknowledging that. And you know, 314 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 2: everyone's giving me hugs. My hands are really badly burned. 315 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 2: I had third degree burns on both in my hands. 316 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 2: My finger was mostly burned off. All of my strnom 317 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 2: had basically been dislocated from my ribs from the CPR, 318 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 2: which is good because that's how you do CPR. And 319 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 2: so I was a little sore, obviously, and as people 320 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 2: are hugging me, and I'm like breathing and looking around, 321 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:53,200 Speaker 2: and I just was like what I felt that I'd 322 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 2: just been downgraded from this crazy supercomputer to this commodore 323 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 2: two thy sixteen bit garbage, Like I just got put 324 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 2: into this monkey suit that needs to breathe and defecate 325 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 2: and urinate, and my smell I remember just smelling my 326 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 2: arm and being like I am a stinking monkey, like 327 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 2: this is this is ridiculous? 328 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 3: Then it was. 329 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 2: It was like arguably slightly disappointing that I just now 330 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 2: went from something that had no physical constraints to being 331 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 2: physically constrained and what one could argue was a very 332 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 2: frail real container. And that lasted for like a couple 333 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 2: of months of just being like like so hyper aware 334 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 2: of breathing, like every time I take a breath, I'm 335 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 2: like here we go, okay then, and and just my 336 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 2: so hyper aware of my smell and not like my 337 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,359 Speaker 2: armpits or something, but like my hand, my arm, like 338 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 2: my natural ferymodal smell that we all have and we 339 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,240 Speaker 2: communicate with quite a bit. We just seemingly do acknowledge it. 340 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 2: And that was sort of an interesting experience because I've 341 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 2: never had felt. 342 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 3: Foreign in my body. 343 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 2: Even like very early on after waking up, was just 344 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 2: like this isn't real, Like this is not real, Like 345 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,639 Speaker 2: what I had just come from was the true nature 346 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 2: of reality. 347 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 3: This is the dream. 348 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 2: And I remember kind of like feeling like I'm just 349 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 2: going to go to sleep one night and then just 350 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 2: wake back up there. And that's what part of me 351 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 2: really wanted and not to suggest I was suicidal, because 352 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 2: I wasn't. It was more like, if I have to 353 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 2: convince myself that a dream is reality to exist in 354 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 2: the dream, that that's fine too. 355 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 5: You know. 356 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 2: I actually walked out of the ICU like six hours 357 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 2: later to I just I don't know, I don't want 358 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 2: to be there. There's something to be said for medical 359 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 2: professionals make absolutely terrible patients. 360 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 4: I one hundred. 361 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 2: Percent and part of that stereotype, and so I just 362 00:19:58,040 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 2: walked out of what I need to go home. I 363 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 2: don't want to here anymore, and they wanted me to 364 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 2: stay for quite a bit longer. The recovery was surprisingly difficult, 365 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 2: but I didn't resent it. It was okay because you know, 366 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 2: like I have this incredible experience, everything has a. 367 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 6: Cost, and if this was the cost, then I'm paying 368 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:26,400 Speaker 6: and it's okay. 369 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 2: And the months afterwards I had all kinds of people 370 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 2: asking me like, oh, have you read about other people's 371 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 2: native experiences, and people wanting me to do interviews, and 372 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 2: I was just kind of like, no, Like I've told 373 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 2: people the story, which I was comfortable with, but I 374 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 2: just the human brain is so fragile. 375 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 3: And valuable that. 376 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 2: You know, I read someone else's story and then I 377 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 2: start perhaps subconsciously incorporating pieces of that into my own, 378 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 2: or then trying to justify someone else's experience within my own, 379 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 2: or vice versa or something. So to me, it was 380 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,239 Speaker 2: almost like I just want to be with experience for 381 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 2: a while before I even attempt to start reading about 382 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 2: someone else's or getting these big. 383 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 3: Discussions about it. 384 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 2: And then eventually when I started reading to other people's 385 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 2: it was just sort of like, yeah, interesting the other 386 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 2: experiences that people had, but I'd already processed or integrated 387 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 2: my own experience, you know. I think the biggest part 388 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 2: of trying to make sense of my experience to me 389 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 2: was relating it to the chemicals in my brain. Back 390 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 2: in the sixties and seventies, it was scientific fact that 391 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 2: we had trace amounts of die methyl trip to mean 392 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 2: or DMT and or urine in blood, and that was 393 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,239 Speaker 2: thought to just be some fairly irrelevant thing. But then 394 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen studies were done and where it shows 395 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 2: that you have equatable amounts of DMT in your brain 396 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,680 Speaker 2: as you do is dopamine or serotonin, and either of 397 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 2: those neurotransmitters contribute to almost all of your emotions and 398 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 2: your experience, your conscious experience, dreaming, your wound, healing, your 399 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 2: spatial recognition like it's is a lot. And if you 400 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 2: have equal amounts of dimethyl trip to me your DMT 401 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 2: in your brain as these other. 402 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 3: Compounds, what is that doing? 403 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 2: And they took it a step further and induced cardiac 404 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,520 Speaker 2: arrest and derodent specifically rats, which is a very common 405 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 2: practice because anydotally they're a very good. 406 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 3: Fit for a human brain. 407 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 2: And when doing so, you would see ten to fifteen 408 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 2: full of increases of dimethyl trip to mean in their brain. 409 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 2: And it just so happens at DMT is an incredibly 410 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 2: powerful psychedelic And now you also have other hallucinerenic compounds 411 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,719 Speaker 2: that are in dodges in your brain, like five methyloxy 412 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 2: die methyl trips. And these two compounds are referred to 413 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 2: lolocally as the spirit molecule, in the God molecule, because 414 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 2: you would lisit these incredibly spiritual and omni present like experiences. 415 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 2: So when I was a educated, you know, it was 416 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 2: twelve thousand bolts of direct current flowing from one hand 417 00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 2: to the next, passing through my heart and disrupting my 418 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 2: natural electrical pathways which put me into a ventricular arrest, 419 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 2: specifically ventricular flibrillation, which is basically sporadic electrical conduction in 420 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 2: my heart, which is a form of cardiac arrest. In 421 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 2: the event of a cardiac arrest, you have this massive release, 422 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 2: ten to fifteen fold release of highly, highly llucinogenic and 423 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 2: spiritual compounds that go into your body. 424 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 3: I don't know. 425 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 2: That doesn't seem entirely unlikely to me that that would 426 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 2: be responsible for the near death experience. People will very 427 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 2: commonly get upset over that because that it somehow whittles 428 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 2: their deeply spiritual experience down to a series of chemical 429 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:47,160 Speaker 2: reactions in brain. But you can still be going somewhere 430 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 2: else as a result of a chemical reaction in your brain, 431 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 2: like one doesn't limit the other, Like these two things 432 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 2: can coexist simultaneous. And to me, it's almost as if 433 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 2: these two compounds that are in your brain, which and 434 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 2: I'm sure a whole plethora of other compounds than dodges 435 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 2: to yourself were also released, all contribute to you basically 436 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 2: becoming a higher version of yourself. You know, I feel 437 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 2: that people have a tendency to think linearly, and if 438 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 2: you look at it from this perspective, this whole thing 439 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 2: might make sense. Like I'm atom, and I'm made up 440 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 2: of a bunch of cells. Those cells are made up 441 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 2: of organelles. Those organicals are made up molecules. Of molecules 442 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 2: are made up of atoms, and atoms are made up 443 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:34,080 Speaker 2: of subatomic particles. But there's a lot of space between 444 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 2: those subatomic particles. And if I took that sub atomic 445 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 2: screen and then brought it up to something that's representational 446 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 2: of us, it's like the space of a football field 447 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 2: between these atoms. So we are mostly by a very 448 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 2: large margin, we are empty space. But because everything is 449 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 2: at such a larger level and there's so much stuff 450 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 2: above that empty space, we don't perceive it that way. 451 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 3: And the space. 452 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 2: Between everything is called the zero point field, which is 453 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 2: basic like the canvas of the universe in which this 454 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 2: pixelatic expression. 455 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 3: Is painted upon it like a pointilist. 456 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 2: But the zero point feel is the canvas of the 457 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 2: universe and represents the vast majority of everything. And it 458 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 2: seems to me that this energetic space is where cautiousness 459 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 2: is emitted from. So by the very nature everything in 460 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 2: existence has consciousness within it, and then we just filter consciousness. 461 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 3: Through the biology that we have. 462 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 2: So a blade of grass would experience cautiousness. A blade 463 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 2: of grass, a slide mold experience is cautiouness in the 464 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 2: slime mold through the lens of its biology, and so 465 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 2: consciousness simply it just experienced as an expression of our biology. 466 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 2: And to me, the idea of having these chemical compounds 467 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 2: uniquely move within your consciousness and affect their nature of 468 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 2: reality and effect the experience that you have when you're dying, 469 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 2: does it necessarily mean it that's a distinguished of the 470 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 2: spiritual nature of your experience. I read incredible amounts of books, 471 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 2: and you know, whether it's reading on Eastern philosophy and 472 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 2: religions or quantum physics, seemingly there's a lot of overlap 473 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 2: to what they represent. And it was anything I could 474 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 2: drop from my experience, whether it is with like high 475 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 2: dose psychedelics and my near death experience, is that we're 476 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 2: all just facets of an infinite complexity experiencing itself subjectively. 477 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 2: Now that I find when I see people sort of 478 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 2: confronting their own mortality and those layers of existential dread, 479 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 2: I feel very empathetic towards it, partially because we all 480 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 2: have that and that I was exposed to it and 481 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 2: had to confront it, and not an obligation, but I 482 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 2: just feel the need to be like, hey, we share 483 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 2: some things here, and perhaps there's some way that I 484 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 2: can help this person. You know, when I'm at work, 485 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 2: it's interesting the conversations like that with people. 486 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 3: You know, someone's in stage four cancer and they're dying. 487 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 2: And you can you can see underneath it all that 488 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 2: this is not something that they're looking forward to, and 489 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 2: fair enough, sometimes I mentioned like, yeah, I died a 490 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 2: couple of years ago and had a really interesting experience 491 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 2: that I'll leave it at that because I'm not going 492 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 2: to start regurgitating my experience on someone. And if they're like, 493 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 2: yay man, can you want to talk about that, I'll 494 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 2: tell them about it, because it does more than often 495 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 2: give someone at least pause in the anxiety. 496 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 3: That they're experiencing. 497 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 2: I think everyone has that existential fear of not existing, 498 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 2: but we do a really good job of just ignoring 499 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 2: it because I'm young, I'm good, I'm healthy. I don't 500 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:46,880 Speaker 2: need to think about this. I don't want to think 501 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 2: about this. Why would I waste my energy trying to 502 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 2: ponder the esistential nature of existence. But at some point 503 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 2: in time, that shit's going to become relevant when you 504 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 2: have stage four cancer, or when you're like ninety, or 505 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,680 Speaker 2: any number of things, or perhaps a fleeting moments as 506 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 2: you're flying upside down in a car accident. At some 507 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 2: point in time, everyone's ticket's going. 508 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 3: To get punished. 509 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 2: It is inevitable, and that in itself gives value to 510 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 2: everything that we experience. You know, Like, I'm not afraid 511 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 2: of death at all, but at the same time, I 512 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 2: don't want to die. Like I have young children, I 513 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 2: want to be there as a parent. I want them 514 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 2: to have an emotionally healthy childhood, not lamenting the dead 515 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 2: them their father. When I'm with my children, I love 516 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 2: the moment and I just be in the moment and 517 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 2: I'm thinking about anything else because I don't mean to. 518 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 2: And at some point in I'm even in memory of 519 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 2: this within this physical. 520 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 3: Body is not going to exist. 521 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 2: So the only thing we have is right now. 522 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 7: Welcome back. 523 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: This is a live again joining me for a conversation 524 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: about today's story. Are my other Alive against story producers 525 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: Kate Sweeney, Nicholas Takowski and Brent Day, and I'm your host, 526 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: Dan Bush. 527 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 8: One thing that really struck me about Adam's story as 528 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 8: I talked to him is, you know, well, I'm just 529 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 8: going to say, you know, I come to everything as 530 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 8: a skeptic, you know, like I believe in science. 531 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 4: Da da da da da. 532 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 8: But what I found really fascinating And Dan, actually I 533 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 8: was really thankful that you actually threw this interview my way, 534 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 8: and I was really really grateful for that because what 535 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 8: I found fascinating is that I love that Adam didn't 536 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 8: really have this sort of either or mentality of you know, 537 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,560 Speaker 8: an order for a near death experience to be quote 538 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 8: unquote real or spiritual. This cannot be an experience triggered 539 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 8: by the chemicals, you know, running through our body. And 540 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 8: he sort of says, no, maybe it is, maybe that's 541 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 8: exactly what it is. But you know what, basically, maybe 542 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 8: all of our life experiences are hugely influenced by the 543 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,479 Speaker 8: chemicals running through our body, and so why can't that 544 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 8: also be a spiritual experience? And I just found that 545 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 8: to be fascinating, he says. 546 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: He says, you can still be going somewhere else as 547 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: a result of a chemical reaction in your brain. And 548 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: he also says one doesn't negate the other, that can coexist, 549 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: you know, they both mutually contribute to you becoming a 550 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: higher version of yourself. And I love how he took 551 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: it out of the realm of like, is there an afterlife? 552 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 5: Is there? 553 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: He's sort of going, And a lot of people end 554 00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: up in this place of does it matter right if 555 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: you're evolving, if you're growing in whatever way, whether you 556 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: call it you're growing, your soul is evolving, or whether 557 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: you say I'm just you know, expanding consciousness. 558 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 9: And having done DMT, which is the chemical he's talking 559 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 9: about that's released into the brain and mass quantities. I'll 560 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 9: be honest with you, I've done it one time in 561 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,719 Speaker 9: my life. And the experience that I had, whereas it 562 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 9: didn't necessarily make me believe in God necessarily, it definitely 563 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 9: made me feel like I touched something divine. I felt 564 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 9: like I could feel the structure of time. I felt 565 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 9: like I could understand the universe. It lasts twenty minutes, 566 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 9: it felt like it lasted a week. And when I 567 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 9: came out it was I felt changed. Now Like every 568 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 9: epiphany it fades, life gets on top of it and 569 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 9: it just kind of becomes something else in the background. 570 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 9: But in that moment, I felt like I had touched something, right, 571 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 9: So I mean to actually touch that again while you 572 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 9: are in the process, like to have your brain do 573 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 9: that for you while you're in the process. 574 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 4: I don't know. 575 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 9: I think that, you know, I think that a chemical 576 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 9: shift like that can unlock something bigger, you know, And 577 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,479 Speaker 9: I think that way, Hey, who knows what if you know, 578 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 9: the DMT is like the thing that gets you over 579 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 9: the threshold into the afterlife. 580 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 4: I don't know. 581 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 7: He also started talking about zero point field and the 582 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 7: space between particles, and he had sort of a football field. 583 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: Analogy of you know, how much massive more emptiness there 584 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: is than matter, And from that point of view, it's 585 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: just kind of that's always a great thing of people 586 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: when there's an argument about science or spirituality or what's 587 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: measurable and what's not and where the two meet and 588 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: where they fall away from each other. But that's always 589 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: an interesting place because it just points directly at well, 590 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: we don't there's so much unknown, there's so much room 591 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: for you know, continued science and knowledge. That to be 592 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: dog we talked about this before, but to be dogmatic 593 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: one way or the other seems way beyond the point. 594 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: Why would What is it about us that makes us 595 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: want to be so dogmatic or to be like, I 596 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: know this, I know the I know the mind of God, 597 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: or you know, I know that there is no God, 598 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: you know. But I love this zero point field because it, 599 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: you know, as this canvas that the universe can express 600 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: itself through, and you look at yourself and you're like, actually, 601 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: there is no me, you know. It's it's it's a 602 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: very scientific way of understanding that the self actually does 603 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: not exist. There is no point at which I stop 604 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: and the electrons outside it and the air start. 605 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 7: It's all when you get down that small it's all. 606 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 9: Continuous certainty is comforting. And we're not creatures who are 607 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 9: constantly searching for the big answers. We're creatures that want 608 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 9: the big answers given to us. We want to already 609 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 9: have the big answers so we don't have to worry 610 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 9: about it. I think that like big questions are terrifying, 611 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 9: you know. I think that like knowing what's going to 612 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 9: happen today, knowing what's going to happen tomorrow, knowing what's 613 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 9: going to happen when I close my eyes, seeing the 614 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 9: white tunnel is the most comforting thing in the world. 615 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 9: And when you think about, like when you start like 616 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 9: really picking things apart, when you really start picking through 617 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 9: like the amount of space between our atoms and stuff 618 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 9: like that, that just leads to more questions and more 619 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 9: uncertainty and an understanding that, like you can't really be 620 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 9: sure of anything. 621 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 5: I always found it so much more calming to know 622 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,319 Speaker 5: that these questions are way beyond our comprehension and I 623 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 5: don't have to have an answer for everything. Right, I'm 624 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 5: a Christian. But was Jesus the son of God? 625 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,319 Speaker 4: Yeah? Maybe maybe not? Is there a God? Maybe maybe not? 626 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,279 Speaker 4: Does our soul go on? Maybe maybe not? 627 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,960 Speaker 5: So I think when you let go of just having 628 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 5: to know, then you don't have to be dogmatic and 629 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 5: defend it and have your world shattered when something challenges 630 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:59,360 Speaker 5: that view. And I think the constant quest for that answer, 631 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 5: whether it's coming from science or art or religion, makes 632 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 5: life really exciting, you know. I just think it makes 633 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 5: it like, oh, what flavor of ice cream will I 634 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 5: have today? 635 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 4: You know? 636 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 5: I mean it's I've never understood this need to define things, 637 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 5: you know, Like. 638 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 4: When he was talking about the zero field theory. I 639 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 4: was thinking, it's the same thing as. 640 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 5: Like evolution, Like could evolution did we It's like, did 641 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 5: God snap his fingers and we were here as fully 642 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 5: formed humans? Or did we evolve from fish? Couldn't have 643 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 5: both happened? Could God have made us evolve from fish? 644 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,359 Speaker 4: Yeah? Or could God not have made us evolve for fish? 645 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 4: And it's a natural process? 646 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: Yeah? 647 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 4: Who knows? Why does it matter? 648 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 2: You know? 649 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,799 Speaker 8: That's fascinating because for me, what tends to hook me 650 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:55,320 Speaker 8: or where I find fascination are these points at which 651 00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 8: science ends up intercepting like zen Buddhism, you know, like, oh, 652 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:07,760 Speaker 8: we find that the teachings of these great searchers who've 653 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 8: been you know, working at this for we have the 654 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 8: teachings of hundreds of years sometimes you know, from the 655 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 8: generations and generations ago, and then they intersect with the science. 656 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,400 Speaker 8: I'm gonna be honest with you. When he started talking 657 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 8: about the zero point field, part of me kind of 658 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,879 Speaker 8: wanted to disconnect a little bit because I was thinking, like, Okay, 659 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 8: this just kind of just sounds like stone or talk. 660 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 8: But by the time he got to the end of 661 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 8: that explanation, I was in and I was just you know, 662 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 8: he finished talking and he sort of paused, and I 663 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 8: was like, wow, that is extremely compelling. And that is 664 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 8: the thing I ended up talking with my spouse about 665 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:49,479 Speaker 8: that night, saying, okay, so I got to tell you something. 666 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,240 Speaker 8: One of my interviewees, you know, was talking about today 667 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 8: and we and then he and I sat around talking 668 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 8: about it. So, yeah, I think it's interesting that we 669 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,399 Speaker 8: all have these different intersections at which, you know. 670 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,560 Speaker 7: The Dell of physics, Yeah, yeah, you're his. 671 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 5: I had to stop and rewind that section like wait 672 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 5: a minute, because I was doing housework or something. I'm like, 673 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 5: wait a minute, what is he talking about? Yeah, but 674 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 5: it was one of those things where I was like, 675 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,800 Speaker 5: this has got a big reward if I put the 676 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 5: work in. 677 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 4: To understand what he's talking about. That was fantastic. 678 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 2: Did you stay with our podcast? 679 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 8: If you rewind it three or four times, there will 680 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 8: be a payoff. But just you know, do it a 681 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 8: few times, and we promise. 682 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:28,919 Speaker 7: Did I tell you guys the Roman story? 683 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 3: I think I did. 684 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: Where he I was telling him that, he was like, 685 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: he asked me, what's at the end of the universe, 686 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,120 Speaker 1: you know, and I said, well, there's no known into 687 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 1: the universe. And he said, well, but you know what's 688 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 1: on the other like wherever it stops? Where does it stop? 689 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,560 Speaker 1: And I said, well, even if it stopped, there would 690 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:44,880 Speaker 1: be something on the other side of that one in 691 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: there and a thought that most people find terrifying and 692 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: extremely you know, alienating, and makes you feel like nothing 693 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:58,279 Speaker 1: like insignificant in the stream of time and space. My 694 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 1: like five year old just started giggling hysterically to the poem. 695 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: Was the point where he was almost crying, and he 696 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 1: thought that the endlessness of the universe was the most 697 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:09,359 Speaker 1: hilarious thing. 698 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:14,359 Speaker 5: It's like a joke with no punchline. 699 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 7: It's like the joke that just thought it was fucking hilarious. Yeah. 700 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 4: I remember, like my grandma when she stayed with us, she. 701 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 7: Used to it is kind of an absurd condition, isn't it? 702 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 6: Her? 703 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 5: And I my grandma when she used to stay with us, 704 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:28,120 Speaker 5: you know, she'd sleep in my room and we would 705 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 5: talk about these things. As I was fascinated by that, 706 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:31,960 Speaker 5: and I asked her that question and she told me 707 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 5: there's no end And I remember I just felt like 708 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 5: I'd just been thrown off a cliff, like it was 709 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 5: just like the most terrifying thought. So maybe it's because 710 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 5: I wrestled with it when I was five years old, 711 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 5: you know. 712 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: But right well, I think that, you know, a lot 713 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 1: of these big concepts of life and death, and even 714 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: in the tragedies that we hear about in these stories 715 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: and the trauma, there's there's room for gallows humor, I think, 716 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 1: because what else. 717 00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,279 Speaker 7: You know, I mean, yeah, what's gonna do? Mm hmm. Yeah. 718 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,120 Speaker 7: And I like how he when he was talking about 719 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:03,240 Speaker 7: I guess it was some sort. 720 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: Of care for people who were oh yeah, you know, 721 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: and he was the sort of deathbed care or whatever, 722 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: and he. 723 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 7: Was saying, you know, I died was. 724 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:15,839 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not going to force it on him, 725 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: but if they want to talk about it, I've got 726 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:18,040 Speaker 1: some insights, you know. 727 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 3: I loved that. 728 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 8: I love the idea of somebody saying that to me 729 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 8: and then just being like the person that has said 730 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:28,360 Speaker 8: to you, just being like whatever, like not responding. Okay. 731 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,279 Speaker 1: I've got an old friend named Rick Doblin who I 732 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: knew years ago in Charlotte, North Carolina. He's now he's 733 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 1: he's pretty famous now. He's he started this thing called maps, 734 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:40,800 Speaker 1: which I'm sure Adam knows all about MAPS is the 735 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:46,800 Speaker 1: Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies. And Rick is a Harvard, 736 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 1: Harvard guy, and he's worked really hard to get MDMA, 737 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: you know, legalized for therapy therapeutic use, and he spent 738 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,880 Speaker 1: a lot of time with you know, administering it in 739 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: therapy with people who are on their deathbeds, as well 740 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 1: as a lot of like you know, Gulf war Vets 741 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: who have severe PTSD. And you know, we were learning 742 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 1: now more about how psychedelics relative to trauma have a 743 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: really significant impact. 744 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 7: If done right. 745 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:20,160 Speaker 1: And it's not so much the experience while you're on 746 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 1: the psychedelic, but it's it's the way your brain rebuilds afterwards. 747 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 7: And in the right therapeutic settings. 748 00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: Your brain has a lot of plasticity and can and 749 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: wonderful things can happen. But anyway, I'm trying to get 750 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 1: him on the show if I can. I haven't talked 751 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 1: to him in twenty years, but he's fascinating guy. Yeah, absolutely, 752 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: Adam's story reminded me of Rick. Yeah, but he's been 753 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 1: on rogue and he's done all kinds of cool. 754 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:49,759 Speaker 5: One thing in his story that good out to me 755 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,640 Speaker 5: is when he said that this memory in this physical 756 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 5: body will eventually not exist and all we have is 757 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 5: right now. Because what I've wrestled with is some of 758 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 5: these ideas of that, Oh, I come back to this home. 759 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 5: Like so many of these people who've had a near 760 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 5: death experience, I felt like I woke up from a 761 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 5: nap and I was in my home where I've always been. 762 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,319 Speaker 5: And then I'm like, well, why do we fight so 763 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,520 Speaker 5: much to stay alive? Like why do we have this 764 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,879 Speaker 5: instinct to stay alive? And I think it's because we 765 00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,279 Speaker 5: only get to experience who we are as we are 766 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,839 Speaker 5: in this one lifetime, you know. And I think that's 767 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 5: what makes the experience of being a human being such 768 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 5: a precious thing, you know, because I was like, well, 769 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 5: why what does it matter if you die? If you 770 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:37,560 Speaker 5: just go back into this continuum, you know, So every 771 00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,919 Speaker 5: minute that we get to experience, I think that, Yeah. 772 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,840 Speaker 1: I'm like, you might have a reincarnation, who knows what 773 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 1: lies beyond, but this is the only this life you. 774 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 3: Will ever right. 775 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,440 Speaker 1: Next week on the Live Again, we have the honor 776 00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: and privilege of bringing you a conversation with Rick Doblin, 777 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: the founder and executive director of the Multi Disciplinary Association 778 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:07,560 Speaker 1: for Psychedelic Studies or MAPS, a nonprofit that has been 779 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,400 Speaker 1: at the forefront of exploring the therapeutic potential of psychedelics 780 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,439 Speaker 1: for over thirty five years. His groundbreaking work has helped 781 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,279 Speaker 1: transform how we approach healing, trauma, recovery, and end of 782 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,240 Speaker 1: life care. Rick's dedication to this field has given countless 783 00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:24,360 Speaker 1: individuals and their families hope, understanding, and peace in the 784 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 1: face of immense challenges, including terminal illness. 785 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,880 Speaker 2: The brain is so complex and so whether DMT is 786 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 2: actually released at death or not, the explanation doesn't matter 787 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 2: so much as how we confront death. 788 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:38,280 Speaker 3: What is the process? 789 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,759 Speaker 1: In our conversation, we explore the intersection of his work 790 00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,799 Speaker 1: with the themes of this podcast, trauma, recovery, how we 791 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:51,360 Speaker 1: approach healing, transformation and adaptation. Our story producers are Dan Bush, 792 00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:56,920 Speaker 1: Kate Sweeney, Brent die Nicholas Dakowski, and Lauren Vogelbaum. Music 793 00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 1: by Ben Lovett, additional music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our executive 794 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 1: producers are Matthew Frederick and Trevor Young. Special thanks to 795 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 1: Alexander Williams for additional production support. Our studio engineers are 796 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,600 Speaker 1: rima il KLi and Nomes Griffin. Our editors are Dan Bush, 797 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: Gerhart Slovitchka, Brent Die and Alexander Rodriguez. Mixing by Ben 798 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 1: Lovett and Alexander Rodriguez. I'm your host Dan Bush. Special 799 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,279 Speaker 1: thanks to Adam Tapp. For more about Adam and his 800 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,319 Speaker 1: exploration of the fascinating world of psychoactive substances and their 801 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:34,280 Speaker 1: therapeutic use. Tune into his podcast, Tapped into Psychedelics. Alive 802 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:38,000 Speaker 1: Again as a production of iHeartRadio and Psychopia Pictures. If 803 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 1: you have a transformative near death experience to share, we'd 804 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,720 Speaker 1: love to hear your story. Please email us at Alive 805 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,759 Speaker 1: Again Project at gmail dot com. That's a l I 806 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,880 Speaker 1: v e A g A I N p R O 807 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:57,520 Speaker 1: j E C t at gmail dot com.