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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I don't become a

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Speaker 1: stuff I never told you production of iHeart Radio today.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to bring back one on bachelorette parties, yes,

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Speaker 1: because I was looking for word like New Year's territory.

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Speaker 1: I was looking through our catalog for something around that,

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Speaker 1: but we've rerun most of it, and I just stumbled

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Speaker 1: upon this one, and I was thinking, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: been a lot of parties lately. We've been talking a

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Speaker 1: lot about parties and celebrations, and this is when when

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Speaker 1: I read the description, I was like, oh, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: is interesting. I personally don't have a lot of experience

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Speaker 1: with bachelorette parties. I have seen the kind of drama

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Speaker 1: that goes into who plants it and who gets invited

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Speaker 1: and like or that goes down. We've a lot of

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Speaker 1: my group of friends have like kind of done that,

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Speaker 1: very like wishful maybe one day if we ever one

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Speaker 1: of us gets married, this will be what it is.

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Speaker 1: And just don't be offended if I choose this person

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Speaker 1: or this person. Honestly, I don't want to plan once

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Speaker 1: or whatever. Um. And then I did crash a bachelortte

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Speaker 1: party once at my twenty one birthday party where I

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Speaker 1: was a cool white drunk and drink responsibly and it

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Speaker 1: was like the end of the hangover, you know where

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Speaker 1: you're looking through your pictures at the end of the night.

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Speaker 1: It was me at their bachelorette party, but they had

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Speaker 1: a good time. I learned about it. There you go. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've done a lot of bachelor parties actually, because I

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Speaker 1: had a lot of friends that got married very young

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Speaker 1: and even in college. I think I planned to in

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Speaker 1: my yeah undergrad years, at least two, if not more.

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Speaker 1: Odd one included a I had gifts all over Athens, Georgia.

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Speaker 1: I did a whole scavenger hunt, so before we even

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Speaker 1: got together, I grabbed to all of our presence, hit

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Speaker 1: it in different businesses, like people that are trustworthy to

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Speaker 1: keep the presence. And she had to do specific things

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Speaker 1: which doubtly back I'm like, oh my god, that's so awful.

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Speaker 1: That was me. I would hate you hate me for

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Speaker 1: doing that, because I think she had to sing to

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Speaker 1: somebody to get one thing, she had to do a

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Speaker 1: dance with another, she had to do oppose for another,

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Speaker 1: like the weird things um that I was like, that

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Speaker 1: is really inappropriate, but it worked as college toness, this

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Speaker 1: is what happens when you're a twenty year old doing

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Speaker 1: a college throwing a bachelor party and we don't drink.

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Speaker 1: So that's what we did. On one, I made the

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Speaker 1: crossword uh word search on one. Whoever got the first

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Speaker 1: one got a prize. UM did one. It was one

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Speaker 1: that I had to do with a person, a friend

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Speaker 1: of theirs. Did not go well. We were not friends

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Speaker 1: and they were very rich, had their parents money, and

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Speaker 1: was upset that I would not get equal. I was like,

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Speaker 1: that was not the plan. We were not doing this.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, we definitely lost touch with that person because

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Speaker 1: of that. It was a whole ordeal. It cost a

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Speaker 1: lot of money, is what I figured out. It does

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Speaker 1: it does I, Like I said, I haven't really been

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Speaker 1: involved in a lot, but I've seen a lot of

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Speaker 1: the fall out, like what you're talking about of like

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Speaker 1: these dynamics being revealed, people like with who have a

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Speaker 1: lot of money being like we're gonna go do this,

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Speaker 1: and everyone else being like I can't afford to do that,

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Speaker 1: like all of the like who's the closer friend, who's

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Speaker 1: a better friend? Lowsome drama. Yeah, and in fact that

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Speaker 1: same person was not originally a part of the conversation,

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Speaker 1: but got offended because she felt like she was close

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Speaker 1: to them, and so we had to add her in

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Speaker 1: and then she messed it up. The dynamics. The dynamics,

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Speaker 1: I tell you, well, I would love to hear from

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Speaker 1: listeners if you've had a good bachelorette party experience. I've

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Speaker 1: seen and her tell that they exist been good ones. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I mean it sounds like you're very creative. You put

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Speaker 1: a lot of planning in there, did you did? Um?

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Speaker 1: But okay, the the history of the bachelorte party is fascinating,

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Speaker 1: So let's get into this classic episode. Welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You from House stuff Works dot com. Hello,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline,

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Speaker 1: and today we are talking about bachelorette parties. Last episode

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Speaker 1: we talked about engagement rings, and the previous episode we

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Speaker 1: talked about gay marriage. Yes, we do have marriage on

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Speaker 1: the mind, not because either one of us is about

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Speaker 1: to walk down the aisle, but because the way we

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Speaker 1: know of, yeah, that we know of, but because it

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Speaker 1: is wedding season and surprisingly, bachelorette parties have a very

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Speaker 1: interesting history and very stuff. Mom never told you ish history,

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Speaker 1: that's right, And I let me say I was totally

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Speaker 1: surprised that bachelorette party history is so brief. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean it's it's kind of a new thing. The bachelorette

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Speaker 1: party that you think of today is pretty new. Um.

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Speaker 1: I actually I threw a bachelorette party a couple of

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Speaker 1: years ago. How it was, it was kind of depressing.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you, well, I think the important

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Speaker 1: thing and I feel like etiquette guides tell you this.

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Speaker 1: When you plan a bachelorette party, you have to plan

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Speaker 1: it with the bride in mind, which seems obvious, But

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Speaker 1: if your bride is like a total party girl, you

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Speaker 1: should have a big party type of thing, we're a

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Speaker 1: pub crawl or whatever. But if your bride is quieter

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Speaker 1: and maybe just like the girls getaway kind of bride,

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Speaker 1: maybe you shouldn't plan a pub crawl. Did you plan

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Speaker 1: a pub crawl? Yeah? Yeah I did. And uh, the

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Speaker 1: the fellow women who you know, we all had dinner

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Speaker 1: first and then we started the pub crawl. They all

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Speaker 1: just started to like disappear. So by the time we

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Speaker 1: were at like the third or fourth bar, it was

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Speaker 1: pretty much just the bridesmaids and the bride. And let

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Speaker 1: me tell you, she was not having good time because

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Speaker 1: she was basically I don't know if she's feeling bad

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Speaker 1: that all those ladies left, but I think what she

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Speaker 1: really wanted was like, let's just drink with my girls

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Speaker 1: and you know, have some champagne and a good time.

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Speaker 1: So we got a cab, we went back to the hotel,

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Speaker 1: we drank some champagne and put on a stupid eighties

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Speaker 1: movie and that was the most fun part of the night.

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Speaker 1: That sounds fun, Yeah, yeah. I planned one last year,

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Speaker 1: in fact, for one of my best friends, and it

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Speaker 1: was a lot of fun. It was very cold when

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Speaker 1: it happened, and we did a pub crawl as well, um,

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Speaker 1: which uh ended with us almost being asked to leave

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Speaker 1: an establishment, not because we were so rowdy, but because

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Speaker 1: I bought everybody whistles and even though we knew some

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Speaker 1: of the people who were working at this bar. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And that's really the only reason we didn't get kicked out,

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Speaker 1: because you know, we wanted to make an entrance for

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Speaker 1: for the bride to be and I could just see

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Speaker 1: the bar nope, go out, turned around, yeah, and whistles indoors,

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Speaker 1: not a penis shaped whistles. They were not penis shaped whistles.

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Speaker 1: But we did have um oh we did. I made

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Speaker 1: cocktails for everyone beforehand, and there were penis stirs, cocktail stirs. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we kept it classy ish. But speaking of that penis paraphernalia,

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff is very new to the bachelorette culture,

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Speaker 1: and according to a prominent bachelorette scholar, yes there is one.

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Speaker 1: It says a lot about our sexual moray's and gender equity.

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Speaker 1: But first, a brief historical word on bride'smaids, because surprisingly

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Speaker 1: there's not a ton of history on bridesmaids. There's this

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Speaker 1: idea that it goes back to ancient Rome when some

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Speaker 1: brides Toby would have been accompanied by a ton of bridesmaids,

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Speaker 1: all dressed identically to try to trip up any evil

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Speaker 1: spirits that might try to whisk her away, or kidnappers

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Speaker 1: you might try to whisk her away. So bride's maids

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Speaker 1: were I guess sort of like bodyguards at first. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but that whole spirit superstition carried through for quite a while,

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Speaker 1: all the way through the nineteenth century England, because if

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Speaker 1: you look at some Victorian era wedding photographs, you can't

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Speaker 1: even tell which one is the bride and which one

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Speaker 1: is the bride'smaid. Yeah, and that's why I don't understand

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Speaker 1: why people get upset when I just wear wedding dresses

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Speaker 1: to their weddings. You know, sorry, I look so good

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Speaker 1: and white. But you're just doing it for the bride.

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Speaker 1: I think you know you're protecting her. I don't actually

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Speaker 1: do that. Just to clarify, um, but bachelor parties have

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Speaker 1: ancient roots. The often sided historical precedent to the modern

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Speaker 1: day bachelor party is fifth century BC Sparta Sparta, where

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Speaker 1: soldiers would hold a dinner in the groom to be

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Speaker 1: his honor and toast him. But yeah, I mean it

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Speaker 1: didn't stay that classy for long. Things things did get

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Speaker 1: a little rowdier over time. In six i'd never I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't know why I would have heard this, but

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Speaker 1: I had never heard this. Uh p T. Barnum's grandson,

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Speaker 1: Herbert Barnum Seeley through a stag party that ended up

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Speaker 1: getting rated by the cops because of rumors that a

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Speaker 1: belly dancer would be making a nude appearance. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: in nineteen the term bachelor party is used for the

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Speaker 1: first time in a Scottish publication Chambers Journal of Literature,

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Speaker 1: Science and the Odds to describe a jolly old party.

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Speaker 1: So we have we we've got that whole culture already

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Speaker 1: established by and then in four pop culture wise, we

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Speaker 1: have the first movie devoted to this pre wedding debauchery,

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Speaker 1: appropriately called bachelor Party. Yeah, but it's Tom Hanks, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've never seen it, but you know it's gonna be sweet.

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Speaker 1: It is gonna end up sweet. Um. But but the

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Speaker 1: whole idea though, as to why bachelor parties have this

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Speaker 1: extensive history, is that we have long accepted that men

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Speaker 1: want to sow their wild oats, and they are more

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Speaker 1: at liberty to have sex before marriage. And Tom cat

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Speaker 1: around and and do as men are want to do.

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Speaker 1: That whole notion that that it's simply in men's natures

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Speaker 1: to be, you know, sex fiends, right, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think the idea and and uh that that bachelor party

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Speaker 1: scholar you mentioned, Beth Montamurro, brings it up that there's

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Speaker 1: an idea that men are really giving something up, yes,

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Speaker 1: when they get married, whereas women are gaining something incredible

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Speaker 1: like a life. Finally, I have a life because I

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Speaker 1: have a man, and so that that is sort of

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Speaker 1: what all of this hinges on, because men get to

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Speaker 1: have that rowdy bachelor party to say goodbye to their

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Speaker 1: days of freedom, when in however, they tend to get

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Speaker 1: bridle showers. Well, yeah, I mean because for a long, long,

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Speaker 1: long time, throughout that history of you know, the extensive

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Speaker 1: history the bachelor party, the economic aspiration for a woman

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Speaker 1: was limited to being a wife and mother. So it

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Speaker 1: makes sense that the bridle shower has been the go

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Speaker 1: to thing for so long that it actually goes back

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Speaker 1: to sixteenth and seventeenth century Holland. And the origin story

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Speaker 1: is that there was a woman who wanted to marry

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Speaker 1: a poor guy, and so neighbors showered her with household

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Speaker 1: gifts because her father was like, no, you're not going

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Speaker 1: to marry this poor dude, and her neighbors were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we shall help you. We will give you this ye

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Speaker 1: old kitchen aid Nixon I know, and unfortunately can't do

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Speaker 1: a Dutch accent, but um. In the late nineteenth century,

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Speaker 1: bridle showers became routine for wealthier women in the United States,

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Speaker 1: which were focused around preparing them for their housewife e duties.

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Speaker 1: This was also around the time that you have the

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Speaker 1: cult of domesticity and the rise of consumerism, which melded

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Speaker 1: together nicely. Well. Yeah, around this time also you have

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Speaker 1: things like hope chests and trousseau's which the bride's family

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Speaker 1: would fill with linens and and dishes and stuff so

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Speaker 1: she could bring that into the marriage. I actually have

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Speaker 1: a friend whose little sister her parents had been filling

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Speaker 1: this hope chest for her for years, but the parents

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Speaker 1: didn't do it for my friend because they were so

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Speaker 1: convinced that the little sister would get married and the

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Speaker 1: older sister would not. Why would they be filling a

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Speaker 1: hope chest to begin with? What did they put inside

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Speaker 1: of a very traditional southern family? Uh? Literally like uh,

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Speaker 1: stuff from the grandmother to get passed down, so like

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Speaker 1: fine china, fine silver, fine linens, all of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: My mom does have a silver tea service waiting for me,

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Speaker 1: and it has been waiting for me for years and

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Speaker 1: almost any time I see her, she asked me if

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Speaker 1: I want to want to take my silver tea service

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Speaker 1: home and I and I am putting it off. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: my mom says that I have a mink coat waiting

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Speaker 1: for me. WHOA, yeah, I said that I'm going to

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Speaker 1: attach a barehead to it and put it on the

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Speaker 1: floor like a rug. There you go, doesn't even need

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Speaker 1: a bearhead. Just go ahead and toss that thing down

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Speaker 1: and call it a day. But that that idea, though,

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Speaker 1: of women filling the hope chest is because traditionally men

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Speaker 1: were expected to buy the house in the land, whereas

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Speaker 1: women would provide the soft goods. And before traditional bridle

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Speaker 1: showers where you might bring gifts for less wealthy women,

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Speaker 1: they were kind of sweet traditions. I think of the

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Speaker 1: a lot of women getting together to do things like

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Speaker 1: so the new monogram on sheets and linen's maybe get

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Speaker 1: together to help make a new quilt for a bed um.

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Speaker 1: Lots of these different kinds of again very domestic oriented

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Speaker 1: pre wedding traditions for women, but it was one structured

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Speaker 1: of course, around men as the breadwinner and the head

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Speaker 1: of household. There was even one game that was I

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Speaker 1: guess more taking place in the first half of the

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Speaker 1: twentieth century where a hostess would hide trinkets in cakes

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Speaker 1: that would be given to any unmarried women who would

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Speaker 1: attend a bridle shower. And these trinkets would symbolize what

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Speaker 1: their future husband's professions might be, so kind of like

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Speaker 1: a precursor to playing mash Yeah. Yeah, fingers crossed for

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Speaker 1: the steth of scope lord. All right, Well, today of

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Speaker 1: modern brides still have those bridal showers, even though there's

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Speaker 1: kind of a shift in how we view them, even

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Speaker 1: though it's more like just based on tradition versus I

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Speaker 1: really really want a bridle shower where they feed me

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Speaker 1: cucumber sandwiches and tea. What are you saying you do

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Speaker 1: want that? Because I could go for a cucumber sandwich.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I could go. Haven't we established that I

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Speaker 1: could go for a sandwich at any time? That's true,

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Speaker 1: that's true, and it was Penn State, says yologist Beth Monima,

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Speaker 1: who we've already mentioned a couple of times, the the

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Speaker 1: bachelorette party scholar, who who was the one who said

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Speaker 1: that brides are holding these showers because of pressure's placed

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Speaker 1: on them by earlier generations. Yeah, but while pent of

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Speaker 1: modern bride's still have the showers, almost as many seventy

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Speaker 1: seven percent also have the bachelorette party, because you know,

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Speaker 1: the bridal shower is what you invite your mom to

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Speaker 1: you you're soon to be mother in law. Perhaps that's

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Speaker 1: the calm party, and then you have the wild bachelorette

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Speaker 1: and but it wasn't until the nineteen sixties that we

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Speaker 1: even have anything like a bachelorette party start to happen,

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Speaker 1: thanks Monumorro says to things like the sexual revolution and

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Speaker 1: birth control. But the history of bachelorette parties in the

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Speaker 1: UK is a little bit older. Um the term hen

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Speaker 1: party dates back to the eighteen hundreds, but that was

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Speaker 1: just referring to a gathering of ladies, any any gathering

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Speaker 1: of women, So we were having a hen party. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I guess you probably need more than two women to

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Speaker 1: form a henn party anyhow So in nineteen seventies six, though,

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Speaker 1: The Times used hen party for the first time in

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Speaker 1: the pre wedding sense, So a little bit sooner than

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Speaker 1: we're going to see the rise of the term bachelor

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Speaker 1: party in the United States. But even before the term

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Speaker 1: hen party was used as we would think of it

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Speaker 1: in reference to something like a bachelotte party, there were

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Speaker 1: similar traditions already happening, such as a female industrial workers

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Speaker 1: would get pranked on their last days of working at

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Speaker 1: the factory, for instance, before they got married, because the

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Speaker 1: expectation was they're gonna get married and then you know,

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Speaker 1: we work, but before Richard Gere came in to carry

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Speaker 1: them out of the factory. Never mind, just a reference

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Speaker 1: to a movie I've seen a thousand times, But all

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Speaker 1: of this kind of grew out of before the sixties,

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Speaker 1: the personal showers, which were somewhere in between the bridal

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Speaker 1: showers and the bachelorette parties. It wasn't with your extended

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Speaker 1: family and your mom and your aunt, your grandmother. It

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Speaker 1: was with your close friends, because those were the parties

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Speaker 1: like in the fifties where the bride would get lingerie

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Speaker 1: and other things. She didn't necessarily want to open in

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Speaker 1: front of extended family, but they were still subdued. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they were at people's houses. So it's it's kind of

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Speaker 1: that in between stage before we get into the full

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Speaker 1: big body bachelorette parties. And speaking of the full big

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Speaker 1: body bachelorette parties, something Old, something Bold bridle Showers and

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Speaker 1: bachelorette parties by Beth Montamorrow is our major source for

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Speaker 1: all of this, by the way, because she's really the

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Speaker 1: only person who has taken a deep scholarly dive into

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Speaker 1: this culture, and she says that in the nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 1: bachelotte parties were more about cementing friendships before that transition

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Speaker 1: into marriage. And there were a couple of scholars here

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Speaker 1: and there who hinted at bachelorette traditions. For instance, in

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Speaker 1: two we have Paula L. Dressel and David Peterson who

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Speaker 1: were studying male strippers, and they mentioned that some women

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Speaker 1: would see male strippers as a part of their celebrations

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Speaker 1: of upcoming marriages. Right. But it wasn't until that researcher

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Speaker 1: Rebecca Clark uses the term bachelorette party to describe what

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Speaker 1: motivated women's attendance at one of these particular clubs. And

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Speaker 1: she writes about how media coverage at this time in

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Speaker 1: the eighties and nineties really treated bachelorette parties like something novel,

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Speaker 1: foreign and crazy, like can you believe what women are doing?

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Speaker 1: And uh. In nine eight, Richard Roper of Eberton Roper Fame. UH,

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Speaker 1: he wrote an article for the Chicago Sun Times that

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Speaker 1: really signaled a shift in how the media talked about

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Speaker 1: bachelorette parties. It was the first one to really explain

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Speaker 1: it as a social social ritual, not something subdued and like, well,

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Speaker 1: let have a shower and then go out for drinks, y'all.

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Speaker 1: It was really kind of signaling the shift that it

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Speaker 1: was moving before that, beyond that into actual pre planned

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Speaker 1: nights of debauchery. I was surprised that it wasn't until

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Speaker 1: I believe that the term pops up in Cosmo I

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Speaker 1: would assume. I would have assumed that Cosmo would be

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Speaker 1: all over that absolutely um. And then I found it

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Speaker 1: funny that in two thousand two, not so long ago,

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Speaker 1: there was a Wall Street Journal cover story about how

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Speaker 1: bachelorette parties were getting super raunchy while bachelor parties were

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Speaker 1: simultaneously steering away from strip clubs, and they attributed it

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Speaker 1: to shifting gender roles in the workplace. Well, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean gender roles and feminism definitely came up. And around

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Speaker 1: the same time as that Wall Street Journal article, there

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Speaker 1: was a shift in describing them as feminist activities, like

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Speaker 1: we are taking the bull by the horns and we

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Speaker 1: are going out as women, and a lot of these

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Speaker 1: articles the shift in tone. It started describe women of

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Speaker 1: the millennium as asserting equality and demonstrating their ability to

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Speaker 1: flaunt their sexuality, and so parties are starting to move

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Speaker 1: more into the public places, getting more elaborate and expensive.

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Speaker 1: Just at the same time as the cost of weddings

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Speaker 1: is shooting up. So as we're getting bigger weddings, we're

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Speaker 1: also getting bigger, more ritualized pre wedding activities. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: you could say that all of this just ties into

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Speaker 1: the commodification of American weddings that now costs on average

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Speaker 1: around twenty eight thousand dollars because now you have for

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Speaker 1: bachelorette parties all of this pianist paraphernalia available to buy.

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Speaker 1: For instance, you have things like destination Bachelorette parties, uh

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Speaker 1: that you can spend so much money on. Um. There's also,

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Speaker 1: for instance, being a merchandise. According to the not dot com,

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Speaker 1: do you want to hear the seven Bachelorette essentials, Well,

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Speaker 1: you gotta have a headpiece for the bride a dare

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Speaker 1: list a suck for a buck accessory. Sorry I had

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Speaker 1: to say that on a podcast, But essentially it's like

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Speaker 1: you wear a candy necklace and strange men can dollar

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Speaker 1: to bite a piece off. I don't like that at all,

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Speaker 1: or you can make your own. It's suggested by taping

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Speaker 1: candies to a shirt. That should I can? I just

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Speaker 1: put a cheeseburger on a necklace and oh that would

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Speaker 1: be my that'll that. See, it's all about creating your

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Speaker 1: own rituals kristen Berg for a book. But you also

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Speaker 1: need naughty accessories blow up doll panis paraphernalia of course,

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Speaker 1: And just to show how dated this article is, disposable cameras. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you don't want to have that file lingering on your computer,

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Speaker 1: so you need to or drunk Facebook posting right. Well, now,

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Speaker 1: the last bachelor party, when she was not only a

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Speaker 1: destination bachelor atte parties heard of, it was an athen

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Speaker 1: so it involved leaving Atlanta, but there were a lot

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Speaker 1: of women coming in from like Texas and all over

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Speaker 1: the place. But yeah, there were penis cookies. So you

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Speaker 1: know it's a thing. I've seen many a penis cake

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Speaker 1: on the internet. Not that not that I'm going looking

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Speaker 1: for them in my let me clarify, in my research

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Speaker 1: on bachelorette parties, I saw many photos of penis shaped cakes.

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Speaker 1: Uh so, but what does what does all of this mean? Though? Caroline,

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Speaker 1: because Monta Murrow says that there is a deeper meaning

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Speaker 1: to these penis whistles and such. She says that bachelorette

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Speaker 1: parties and bridle showers are not just women's parties. They

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Speaker 1: are rituals of status consumption and materialism, of transition and ambivalence,

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Speaker 1: of friendship and reinforcement of relationships among women, and of transformation. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and she does write also about what it means

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Speaker 1: for the transformation of sexual attitudes and morals and Moray's

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Speaker 1: and and you know, gender norms and all of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: She writes that the very existence of the bachelorette party

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Speaker 1: is evidence that women have made some real inroads as

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Speaker 1: far as gender equality. Interesting she said, men had bachelor

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Speaker 1: parties because they were about to be trapped. So this

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Speaker 1: is the same thing we talked about that. Now maybe

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Speaker 1: this shows that women, Hey, if we're gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: losing things like losing freedom, maybe women are losing their

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Speaker 1: sexual freedom too. And so she says, as the sexual

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Speaker 1: double standard lost some of its power, and as women's

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Speaker 1: rights and freedoms became more pronounced, it has become more

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Speaker 1: socially acceptable for women to acknowledge that they too are

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Speaker 1: entitled to a last night of freedom. And yet though

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Speaker 1: about all of that penis paraphernalia um, she says that

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Speaker 1: they're actually symbolic of a contradictory role that a bride

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Speaker 1: is forced to play. She says, within hours of the

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Speaker 1: bachelorette party ending, she'll morph from body bachelorette to blushing,

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Speaker 1: virginal bride. And it's it's funny. The discussion, the super

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Speaker 1: serious discussion of women going to male strip clubs and

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Speaker 1: what it means and and so. Monta Muro says that

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Speaker 1: though not necessarily consciously, many women who end up at

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Speaker 1: mail strip clubs tend to be making fun of the

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Speaker 1: idea that men feel it necessary to have a last

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Speaker 1: night of freedom that involves porn and strip clubs. And

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Speaker 1: author Jacqueline Geller echoes that she says that the bachelorette

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Speaker 1: party is a gesture of retaliation rather than an actual

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Speaker 1: sensual adventure. It's answering almost an imagined insult, rather than

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Speaker 1: responding to the bachelor party's text of lewd sexuality, rather

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Speaker 1: than its subtext lamenting lost friendship. Yeah, the for instance,

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Speaker 1: the bachelorette party that I helped plan for my best

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Speaker 1: friend did not include any male strippers or mail strip

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Speaker 1: club or anything like that. A because she would have

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Speaker 1: been not happy about that, and because it just wasn't necessary.

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Speaker 1: You know. Now, one thing though that uh we we

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Speaker 1: really didn't look into at all. But it's something that

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Speaker 1: came up when I was listening to UM an episode

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Speaker 1: of Savage Love not too long ago, there was a

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Speaker 1: caller talking about how it was a gay guy calling

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Speaker 1: in complaining about bachelorette parties coming into gay bars and

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Speaker 1: gay strip clubs and tearing the place up and essentially

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Speaker 1: saying that these women need to respect these spaces, that

426
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: it's not so ko shert for you to just waltson

427
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:48,719
Speaker 1: blow in your penis whistle and disturbing their Friday night

428
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,679
Speaker 1: out or whatever. And I know for a fact actually

429
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: that here in Atlanta, speaking of male strip clubs, there

430
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: is a gay mail strip club that if you are

431
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: a woman, you are not going to be let in

432
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 1: with the group of women because they pretty much have

433
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 1: a policy against bachelorette parties. Because I do I agree

434
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: with the idea that you know what, your bachelorette party

435
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: is not your one night to go be obnoxious at

436
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 1: a gay bar. Well, it's not your one night to

437
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 1: be obnoxious anywhere. Honestly, I think you can. I think

438
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 1: it's possible to have a bachelorette party and not annoy

439
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: the crap out of everyone around you. But I do

440
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: think that bachelorette parties especially do take more license saying

441
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: it would be Oh, it's totally fine, it'll be fun.

442
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: We'll just go and go to a gay bar and

443
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: and you know, all of the men will find us fabulous.

444
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: And and just for women out there, I think that

445
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 1: maybe you need to take a second thought about respecting, uh,

446
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: expecting their spaces, just like we wouldn't probably want uh, well,

447
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 1: I don't know any bar. I wouldn't really want a

448
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: bachelorette party to come in and try to take over

449
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: the place. So just something to think about. Yeah, well

450
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: then you have to ask yourself. Okay, well, so ask

451
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 1: the hooting and holleran and all these public spaces. What

452
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 1: else are they doing? They're drinking, drinking. I was surprised

453
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 1: at the number of studies on bachelotte parties and alcohol

454
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 1: and the concern over it, and and the seeming surprise

455
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: over how much women are drinking at these parties. Well,

456
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 1: but I mean, I don't think it's so shocking. I mean,

457
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: I think any surprise expressed is sort of maybe not genuine,

458
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: or maybe it's I think it's weird that they're surprised

459
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: that at something like a bachelorette party, where you are

460
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 1: already stepping outside of normal behavior. Um, that that that

461
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 1: you would be drinking a lot. Well, speaking of norms, uh.

462
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: In Changing gender Norms for alcohol consumption, social drinking, and

463
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: lowered inhibition at bachelorette parties, the authors concluded that women's

464
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: use of alcohol in this ritual challenges existing gender norms

465
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: and conceptions of masculinity and feminity. So the drinking, in

466
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: a way, is simply an extent chin of doing the

467
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: things like being overtly sexual by wearing a penis necklaces

468
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: and having asking men to pay a dollar to bite

469
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:16,280
Speaker 1: candy off of a necklace and going to a strip club,

470
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 1: et cetera. Yea, And according to a May study in

471
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: the Journal of Substance Abuse, Uh, they really do talk

472
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 1: about like, oh, there's so much drinking, saying that of

473
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: women in these bachelorette parties reported drinking an average of

474
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 1: five drinks over the course of the night. And I

475
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: understand what the definition of binge drinking is and that

476
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: is it. Yes, but I kind of feel like, uh,

477
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: you know, I think that maybe a one night, a

478
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: one off at a bachelorette party, is that so terrible?

479
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: I mean, unless it's leading to awful behavior that puts

480
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: you in an unsafe position. Well, and guess I guess

481
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: a scholar would just say, well, why is that ritual

482
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: so specifically attached to bachelorrette? Because you know, I I

483
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: think and I would be curious to hear from listeners

484
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: on this. I think that the the emerging stereotype for

485
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: bachelorette parties is more of a pub crawl kind of

486
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: thing where you go out and you are gonna binge drink.

487
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: And for guys, when I think of a bachelor party

488
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: these days, yeah, you have the hangover and the hangover

489
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: part two and the hangover part three. Now, um, but

490
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: I imagine guys doing things like drinking some scotch and

491
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: smoking cigars in one place. I mean maybe, I don't know,

492
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: I don't think of that. I mean I guess I

493
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: still think of like the traditional like go out and

494
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: get schwisted. Apparently I have a very aristocratic idea. I

495
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe your dude friends are more sophisticated than mine.

496
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel like almost there's there's a

497
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: touch of overcompensation in a way with with bachelor parties,

498
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: where it's like we go so far, so far out

499
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: because obviously there's the whole stripper aspect that's seeing you know, stereotypical.

500
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, I don't know, I'm I'm I'm so

501
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 1: curious to hear from listeners on this one. Our bachelorette

502
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: parties a symbol of gender and sexual equality and a

503
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: sign of good things? Um? Or are they just a

504
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: night of frivolous excess? Yeah? I mean, I don't know.

505
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: It's interesting some of the things we read talked about

506
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: girls nights and girls like trips to a mountain cabin

507
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: as something really subdued and like, you know, whereas the

508
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: party with the penis necklaces and all the cocktails is

509
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: is the fancy, fun thing to do, And it's like, well, again,

510
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: like I said at the beginning, I mean you you

511
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: kind of have to take into account what the bride wants,

512
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: what's her personality, right, you know what, what what group

513
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: of friends are you getting together? Yeah? And what will

514
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: they want to do, and I had a great time

515
00:30:57,280 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 1: at my at my best friends we had We all

516
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,400
Speaker 1: had a really fun time and it was just enough,

517
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: not too much. It ended with a lot of pizza,

518
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: which was great. Um So I'm definitely not against the

519
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: ritual at all, but it's it's compelling to stop and

520
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: think of where did all of this come from? Birth control,

521
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: baby birtha. And with that, listeners, we want to hear

522
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: from you anyone planning a bachelorette party or any brides

523
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: to be nervous about the bachelorette party grooms as well.

524
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: Do you think that at this point bachelorette parties are

525
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: getting wilder than bachelor parties? All of these thoughts we

526
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: want to hear. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is

527
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: where you can send your letters. You can also drop

528
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 1: us a line on Facebook or tweet us at mom

529
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: Stuff podcast. And we got a couple of your letters

530
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: to share when we come right back from a quick break.

531
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 1: And now back to the letters, christ and I have

532
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: one here from Jared. He's writing in about our bed

533
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: wedding episode. Uh he says, First off, allow me to

534
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: say that I greatly enjoy the show. Thank you, Jared.

535
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: Uh he says I was a chronic bed wetter, and

536
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: while the exact number of times per week escapes me now,

537
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: I do remember it as being quite frequent, not drinking much,

538
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: double voiding. None of the simple tricks helped me at all,

539
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: I must admit, though, my primary problem with wetting the

540
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: bed was that I was an extremely heavy sleeper. As such,

541
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,479
Speaker 1: while the alarm I had would eventually wake me up,

542
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: it was normally much too late for me to do

543
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: anything but change the sheets or reposition myself to sleep

544
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: in the least wet part. Urology appointments and even bladder

545
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: X rays found nothing amiss. I was just programmed to

546
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: sleep deeply and wet the bed. I did eventually get

547
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: a hormone spray that I shot up my nose at night,

548
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: and this helps somewhat. But I off and on with

549
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: the bed until seventh grade. Then my body finally stopped

550
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: me from the endless embarrassment of waking up to soggy sheets.

551
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: I do not miss the crinkling of the plastic sheets

552
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: I used to protect my mattress, or the embarrassment of

553
00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: the first time I had a friend over and realized

554
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: that I stripped the dead that morning to leave only

555
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: the plastic behind. Now, strangely, I'm a very light sleeper.

556
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: Perhaps life is having a fickle sense of humor. So

557
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: thanks Jared, And I've got an email here from Chris,

558
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: subject line a trans perspective on your video the science

559
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: of bitchy resting phase. Um. That's in reference to a

560
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: recent YouTube video over at YouTube dot com slash stuff

561
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: mom never told You, and Chris writes, as I mentioned,

562
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: I'm trans, and for me this means that I have

563
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: been perceived by others as both male and female at

564
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: different times in my life. Your points about women's experiences

565
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: are exactly in line with what I've experienced, but I

566
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: also wanted to add some interesting aspects of what I've

567
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: experienced when I've been perceived as a man. While women

568
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 1: are expected in pressure to emote constantly and generally in

569
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: a positive manner, men are conversely expected and also actively

570
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: pressured to not emote in a positive manner, especially through

571
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: facial expression and body posture, unless there being a any

572
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: caricature or something similar. And my experience, one consequence of

573
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 1: a squashed masculine positive emoting is actually muted experience of

574
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: positive emotion. I guess to the mechanism behind this is

575
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: sort of an inverse of the well known feedback between

576
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 1: emotional facial expression and experience of emotion. Well, it is

577
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,319
Speaker 1: clearly unfair to use a certain class of person to

578
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: prop up others emotional security, as our patriarchal society uses women. Sometimes.

579
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: It is also unfair to rob another class of people

580
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: of the full richness of emotional experience. Basically, the patriarchy

581
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: screws us all and everyone men, women, gender, queers, etcetera

582
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: should be a feminist if they want the most out

583
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: of life. So thanks Chris for sharing that perspective, and

584
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: thanks everybody who's written in. Moms of a Discovery dot

585
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: Com is where you can send your letters. You can

586
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: also find us on Facebook and follow us on Twitter

587
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: at mom Stuff Podcasts, and on Tumbler as well at

588
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,720
Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never Told You dot tumbler dot com, and

589
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: like I said, we are on YouTube. You can head

590
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: over and watch the science of Bitchy resting Face and

591
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: many more videos at YouTube dot com, slash stuff Mom

592
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: Never Told You, and don't forget to be a friend

593
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: and subscribe for more on this and thousands of other topics.

594
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: Is it how stuff works? Dot com