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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic

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Speaker 1: episode was produced by the team at Pandora.

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Speaker 2: What up, y'all?

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Speaker 3: This is Liaiah and this week's Quest Love Supreme classic

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Speaker 3: is all about a true legend.

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Speaker 2: Her name was Ali Willis.

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Speaker 3: We lost her a couple of years ago, but before that,

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Speaker 3: she sat down with the Quest and Team Supreme September nineteenth,

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Speaker 3: twenty eighteen, as she was also being honored as Songwriter

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Speaker 3: of the Year. Yeah, who is this person who has

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Speaker 3: the color purple, friends, and earth, wind and fire in common.

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Speaker 2: It's Ali Willis and we break it all down this.

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Speaker 3: Episode, So listen, learn and celebrate the life of a

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Speaker 3: really cool lady.

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Speaker 4: Suprema Supreme, Suprema Supremo.

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Speaker 5: Roll Call Supremo, Roll Call Supreme, Suprema roll Call.

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Speaker 1: I'm slightly out of it. Yeah, I'm a little sick. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my favorite of all time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. This September my ten was Swift Supreme.

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Speaker 5: Suprema, roll Call, Supreme, So Supreme.

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Speaker 4: Roll my name is Sugar.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I always wanted to ask how high were you when

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Speaker 1: you wrote Neutron Dance, Hi.

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Speaker 5: Supreme So SUPREMEA role called Suprema son Son, Suprema roll call.

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Speaker 2: Yeah your up. Yeah, I'm so hyped. Yeah, we're about

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Speaker 2: to steer it up.

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Speaker 5: Supreme son Son Supreme roll Call, Supreme so SUPREMEO roll.

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Speaker 4: Called high a Mali. Yeah from the valley.

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Speaker 6: Oay, I used to land in New York.

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Speaker 4: I'll take that.

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Speaker 7: Supreme, Supreme Choice, Supreme, Supreme Roll Supreme, Supreme roll.

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Speaker 4: Wow. Okay.

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Speaker 1: We were a little scared when we started the theme

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Speaker 1: because it was only normally it's like nineteen billion of

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Speaker 1: us h ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to a very anemic

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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme. I'm your host, quest Love. The show

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Speaker 1: must always go on.

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Speaker 8: Uh.

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Speaker 4: We're here today with it's Laya and Sugar Steve, hellot

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Speaker 4: of people.

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Speaker 1: I will say that if you know me or if

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Speaker 1: you know us well at the Quest Love Supreme, we've

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Speaker 1: been here for a year and some change. Uh, then

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Speaker 1: you know that we're all about looking under the hood

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Speaker 1: to see what's under the surface, and today is no different.

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Speaker 1: Uh quick quick backdrop story. So back in March, when

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Speaker 1: Taylor Swift pulled a uh a Master three Michelin star

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Speaker 1: troll move off with their with their where there with

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Speaker 1: their cover of the uh the cousin Pete Family Reunion

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Speaker 1: barbecue Prouve rendition of September.

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Speaker 8: Uh.

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Speaker 1: Most of us called the uh the raisin Potatoes salt remix,

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Speaker 1: you know, Uh as expected. Uh, black Twitter was up

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Speaker 1: in arms because that's what Taylor Swift does well. But

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Speaker 1: little did we know that we had a lesson coming

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Speaker 1: to us, and so we were most of us were

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Speaker 1: beyond certain that all the authors of that song, yes, uh,

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Speaker 1: were the blackest of the black. We just we just

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Speaker 1: knew we were spinning up all of our facts and everything,

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Speaker 1: and I mean we just, yeah, that's that's the barbecue.

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Speaker 1: Like to me, that's the blackest song since coming up

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Speaker 1: the rough side of the Mountain in my opinion. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: we just naturally assumed that the authors of the song

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Speaker 1: where the members of Earth went and fire, and that

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Speaker 1: theory was extinguished quick fast, and uh with the help

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Speaker 1: of the University of Google, we quickly discovered that our

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Speaker 1: guest today has indeed earned her pH D her lifetime

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Speaker 1: barbecue pass by writing and I don't I don't even

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Speaker 1: say like classics or hits like she's she's damn near

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Speaker 1: written half my memories and some of that. And I'm

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Speaker 1: not talking about like the outright hit I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: like I've never played the game of oh crap.

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Speaker 4: She wrote that too.

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Speaker 1: I've never had more fun discovering her, her legacy, and

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Speaker 1: and and her her songcraft and her life more than

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Speaker 1: our guest today. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the

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Speaker 1: quest Lip Supreme.

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Speaker 4: Ali Willis. He's white Willis, but.

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Speaker 6: The right Alley Willis.

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Speaker 8: Plus everyone thinks I'm a black man. When I meet anyone,

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Speaker 8: they go, shit, you're a woman and you're white.

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Speaker 1: So hey, you know, uh so I should note that

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Speaker 1: you are getting inducted into the Songwriters.

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Speaker 4: Hall of Fame, yes tonight. Why can I ask what

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Speaker 4: took so long?

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Speaker 8: Because you're exactly exactly talk about it. Which is why

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Speaker 8: I never gave a shit about being in the Songwriters

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Speaker 8: Hall of Fame, because there were a lot of people,

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Speaker 8: you know, who were in there who had hits, definitely

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Speaker 8: not necessarily ones that you might know fifty years from

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Speaker 8: to day. So I just assumed, you know, I was

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Speaker 8: passed over. Didn't mean a lot to me, And then

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Speaker 8: when I got it, I was so excited I couldn't

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Speaker 8: stand it. So it doesn't mean a lot, and I'm elated.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm elated for you because you know, well one,

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Speaker 1: you know, as as a person that lives for uh

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Speaker 1: liner notes and credits.

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Speaker 4: I mean, maybe it's just easy to overlook a name

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Speaker 4: or something.

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Speaker 1: You know you've been, You're ubiquitous, yet you're under the

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Speaker 1: surface in the eyes of many a liner note rat.

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Speaker 1: But once we discovered what he did, it was like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, I'm the world's best kept secret.

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Speaker 4: So well hopefully hopefully not for long.

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Speaker 1: So I want to go back to your beginnings you

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Speaker 1: were now even though you said from the valley and well.

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Speaker 4: Half of that I was.

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Speaker 6: I was born in Detroit, the greatest city in the world.

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Speaker 4: What part of the east west?

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Speaker 6: Northwest? I went to Mumford.

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Speaker 4: I've never had a Northwest on the show.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, Northwest. A lot of people came out of my

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Speaker 8: high school. The Winings went there, the Clark sisters went there.

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Speaker 8: Earl Klue Jerry Bruckheimer, Oh yeah, yeah, wow yeah.

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Speaker 4: So what was what was your entry into music? Because

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Speaker 4: I know that you had a history as a copywriter

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Speaker 4: at Sony Columbia.

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Speaker 8: At Columbia, I was a journalism major with a minor

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Speaker 8: in advertising at the University Wisconsin and someone told me

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Speaker 8: that they had advertising departments at record companies.

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Speaker 4: So I got a job as.

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Speaker 8: A secretary at Columbia and epic almost didn't get the

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Speaker 8: job because they sent me upstairs when I interviewed for

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Speaker 8: a typing test, and I literally was on my eleventh

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Speaker 8: time of failing and the uh, what was the test?

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Speaker 4: Typing?

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Speaker 3: You have to do?

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Speaker 6: You know, like you have to do like one hundred

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Speaker 6: words a minute.

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Speaker 8: I was even money, so they'd like dictaate something to

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Speaker 8: you and you, yeah, you're actually reading something and you

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Speaker 8: have to type, oh and just I wasn't getting it.

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Speaker 8: But then the head of the advertising department called upstairs

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Speaker 8: where I was taking the test and said send her

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Speaker 8: down because they just found out that day that the

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Speaker 8: secretary was quitting. So I got the job, but then

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Speaker 8: within a month I was bumped up to junior copywriters,

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Speaker 8: so my I was in charge of all the minorities,

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Speaker 8: which were blacks and women. That's all I cared about anyway,

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Speaker 8: And so sometimes I wrote the liner notes, but usually

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Speaker 8: I was writing print ads for like rolling Stone cream.

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Speaker 4: Uh, it's for all those Columbia records, so.

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Speaker 8: Like, well, no, it was up to me to actually

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Speaker 8: get the assetates as soon as the artist finished the record,

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Speaker 8: and then write all the advertising for it. So that

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Speaker 8: was radio commercials print ads, some cases TV, but not

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Speaker 8: so my main people that I well, I met Jannis

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Speaker 8: Joplin the first day that I was actually a secretary.

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Speaker 8: She passed away five days later, but I got in

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Speaker 8: there and then I eventually moved into her apartment. So yeah,

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Speaker 8: I have a lot of stuff like like I saw

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Speaker 8: Otis Redding's plane crash.

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Speaker 6: I mean, I have a lot of stuff like this.

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Speaker 4: Tell us well about it Otis?

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Speaker 3: Well, wait, did we start with Janet, because like you said,

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Speaker 3: you met her Janis.

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Speaker 8: Jane Jane Well, and then I was writing promo for Pearl,

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Speaker 8: the album that came out actually right after she died,

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Speaker 8: but of course we didn't know she was going to die.

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Speaker 8: So Johnny Cash, I did early stuff for my main

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Speaker 8: artist that I was in charge of. The Loura Nero, Uh,

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Speaker 8: Barbara Strays and Blood, Sweat and.

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Speaker 4: Tears the Stone. Were they considered an urban act?

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Speaker 9: Yeah, they were put in with the black acts because

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Speaker 9: they had horns. I guess, yeah, I'm not well, explain

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Speaker 9: to me. I'm glad you're here it because well, it's

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Speaker 9: not like we have Clive on the show.

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Speaker 4: Ever.

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Speaker 1: He was like, I know, yeah, so this is the

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Speaker 1: closest I'm gonna get to it. Do you remember what

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Speaker 1: the atmosphere was like when you guys were given the

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Speaker 1: final master to there's a riot going on because I

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Speaker 1: figured that on the heels of stand and Woodstock and

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Speaker 1: the Greatest Hits record.

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Speaker 4: It's like, oh, this is gonna be the monster. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: and you get it and it's a whole other thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: what was the what was the room?

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Speaker 8: Like? People who were diehard sly fans loved it and

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Speaker 8: felt like he was progressing. But I think most of

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Speaker 8: the record company they wanted, you know, dance to the

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Speaker 8: music and everyday people and they were getting you know,

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Speaker 8: thank you for letting me be myself or you know, yeah,

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Speaker 8: so there it was a mix. I remember there was

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Speaker 8: some like panic in the room that maybe this wasn't

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Speaker 8: going to be a hit I think, but uh, you.

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Speaker 3: Know, because like on your coming up from Detroit, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I want to ask you at this point how your

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Speaker 3: parents felt about your journey, because we know that Joe

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Speaker 3: Daddy wasn't really.

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Speaker 2: Messive with the Blakes.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, we can thank him for my career though, because

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Speaker 8: the more resistant, the more it pushed me. He was

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Speaker 8: not a bigot though he really wasn't a bigot. He

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Speaker 8: did it more to push my buttons, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, and he knew that the black thing was going

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Speaker 4: to be.

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Speaker 6: He was like the thing that put me over the y.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, Archie Bunker though, I think believed it a little

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Speaker 8: more than my dad.

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Speaker 5: You know.

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Speaker 6: My thing is growing up in Detroit.

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Speaker 8: I grew up right when Motown was like formed and

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Speaker 8: coming up, So I used to go down there every

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Speaker 8: time I could. Started when I was twelve, i think,

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Speaker 8: and I would sit out on the front lawn because

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Speaker 8: you could just watch people, you know, walking in and out.

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Speaker 6: But most importantly you could hear.

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Speaker 4: Through the walls.

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Speaker 8: Really so yeah, certain instruments. You could hear bass, you

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Speaker 8: could hear drums. Sometimes you could hear background vola from

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Speaker 8: the law. Yeah, because it was just in a little house.

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Speaker 8: So you know, if you were sitting close enough to

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Speaker 8: the house, which is how the Supremes got discovered, they

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Speaker 8: were also sitting out in front, and I think Mickey Stevenson,

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Speaker 8: who was head of A and R, came out on

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Speaker 8: the front porch and said, can anyone sing, I mean

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Speaker 8: I wasn't there for that.

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Speaker 3: How many people are sitting on the lawn on the deck.

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Speaker 8: Had to be really dedicated. There were always like tourists around, but.

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Speaker 6: There were a few people who were like planted there.

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Speaker 4: Was it a twenty four hour operation?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm thinking of the safety, like okay, well not

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Speaker 1: to really blow up the spot. But like in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 1: the the the Daptone headquarters, which was Sharon Jones's. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like their operation is very similar. Where it's in a neighborhood. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't I'm not quite certain or where if the

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Speaker 1: neighborhood knows what goes on in that house. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: always wonder, like with Motown, like was it a twenty

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Speaker 1: four hour operation?

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Speaker 4: Was it secure?

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Speaker 8: It's you know what I mean, were like I was

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Speaker 8: never I was never there at night. But my understanding

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Speaker 8: is yes, twenty four hours. Oh okay, yeah, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 8: but you know during the day there'd always be tourists

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Speaker 8: there and then there would be you know, the lawn sitter.

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Speaker 8: There's actually a little patch of dirt now you know

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Speaker 8: today right in front of the big you know those

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Speaker 8: big historical landmark, those green and gold they're not plaques.

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Speaker 8: They're big, they're like five feet tall, and it says

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Speaker 8: Motown Studios and it gives the history. So there's a

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Speaker 8: little patch of dirt because people stand there to read

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Speaker 8: the plaque. But I'm really friendly with everyone running Motown now,

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Speaker 8: which is headed by Barry Gordy's niece Rob and Terry.

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Speaker 8: So there's talk of naming that patch of dirt for

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Speaker 8: my ass based yes, yes, which would be my proudest

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Speaker 8: moment ever.

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Speaker 3: So when did the Motown people, whether it be Berry

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Speaker 3: or whoever the artist is, when did they discover that

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Speaker 3: you were.

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Speaker 2: Who you were?

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Speaker 5: Like?

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Speaker 8: Not until Motown the musical O really yeah, because I

254
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Speaker 8: never got inside.

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Speaker 6: I was always outside.

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Speaker 8: And then when September first came out and then Boogie Wonderland,

257
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Speaker 8: the Detroit Free Press did a thing, you know, like

258
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Speaker 8: the Local Girl Makes Good and that was the first

259
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Speaker 8: time I was ever in the studio because they did

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Speaker 8: the story in the studio. Then I never ever went

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Speaker 8: back in until I did this project that I worked

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Speaker 8: on for five years, and this would have been maybe

263
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Speaker 8: twenty fourteen that I actually got into Motown and we

264
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Speaker 8: recorded a piece of this project there, which was a

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Speaker 8: five thousand detroiters as lead singers doing a song about Detroit.

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Speaker 6: Five thousand lead singers.

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Speaker 4: Yeah and.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, it was crazy. It took five years. There's also

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Speaker 8: a visual component to it.

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Speaker 5: All.

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Speaker 8: Self funded, nearly killed me. But I love that city

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Speaker 8: and I'll do anything. And then only within this last

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Speaker 8: year was I introduced to Rob and Terry. They heard

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Speaker 8: about my collection because I have a very vast uh

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Speaker 8: pop culture, kitch kitch pop culture, kind of off the

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Speaker 8: center line. So they came out to see it because

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Speaker 8: they have a lot of Motown stuff, like really obscure stuff.

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Speaker 6: And then I became inseparable from them.

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Speaker 2: They came to your house, they flew out.

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Speaker 8: For a day, and then just in Detroit, like three

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Speaker 8: weeks ago, they threw me a party and I had

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Speaker 8: my birthday at Motown. That was a surprise party that

283
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Speaker 8: happened there. So everyone that was on the tour her,

284
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Speaker 8: you know, they stopped. They played this little film when

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Speaker 8: you start the tour. It's the have you ever seen

286
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,920
Speaker 8: that film? Oh my god, Oh you'll have a heart attack.

287
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Speaker 8: It's like classic Motown footage, but not that you usually see.

288
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Speaker 8: And it's the first thing that they show you when

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Speaker 8: you take the tour. So then they stopped the tour

290
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,119
Speaker 8: and they said, uh, you know, ladies and gentlemen, we

291
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Speaker 8: know how much Motown means to you know, everyone, but

292
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Speaker 8: there's a certain person that you know is here today

293
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Speaker 8: because you know, I never learned how to play. I

294
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Speaker 8: write the music too, but I don't know how to play,

295
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,600
Speaker 8: and it's I write the exact same way that I

296
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Speaker 8: did when I sat out on the lawn, because I'd

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Speaker 8: learned bass parts because that's what you could hear, or

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Speaker 8: I'd learned like drum patterns, and I still write that way.

299
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Speaker 8: I'd like kind of hear something and you know, then

300
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Speaker 8: it it goes down anyway. So they said, you know,

301
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Speaker 8: I meant more to this person than anyone, and then

302
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Speaker 8: the whole place saying the happy Birthday was pretty unbelievable.

303
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Speaker 4: That is amazing. Yeah, that is amazing.

304
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Speaker 8: So my Motown thing, though, is new, and I never

305
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,120
Speaker 8: met Barry Gordy, which was a quest of mine forever.

306
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Speaker 8: And when Motown the Musical opened in Detroit, it's at

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Speaker 8: a theater that is literally.

308
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Speaker 6: Right down the block from Motown.

309
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Speaker 8: And but one of my friends directed Motown the Musical,

310
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Speaker 8: Charles Randoff Right, and he said.

311
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Speaker 6: You're meeting Barry Gordy.

312
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Speaker 8: And I had had a camera because I have video

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Speaker 8: on my life since nineteen seventy eight. So really, yes,

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Speaker 8: literally every significant moment and trillions of the insignificant.

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Speaker 2: Ones, but nothing rated.

316
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:36,600
Speaker 8: Are everything there, everything's out of there and anyway, So

317
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Speaker 8: I saw Charles go off to Barry Gordy, and I

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Speaker 8: could hear Barry Gordy going she wrote what she wrote? What?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 4: And then I got to meet him.

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Speaker 8: I have all of this on film, and you know,

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Speaker 8: as I'm giving him kind of my final hug, I

323
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:58,280
Speaker 8: thanked him and he said no, thank you, which to

324
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Speaker 8: me were the greatest words ever uttered to me in

325
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Speaker 8: my life, because I idolized him forever.

326
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Speaker 4: I mean, we're still thinking you so thank you. That

327
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,880
Speaker 4: that is crazy. Wait, so how old were you when

328
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Speaker 4: you left Detroit?

329
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Speaker 8: How old did you see? I went when I went

330
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Speaker 8: to college, which was seventeen. Then I would come home

331
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Speaker 8: for vacations, and then once I was twenty one, I

332
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:20,640
Speaker 8: went to New York.

333
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:22,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, I went to New York and that was it.

334
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,760
Speaker 4: So what was the did you have any twenty grand

335
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:27,960
Speaker 4: experiences up in Detroit?

336
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Speaker 6: Only in that I was always nine to go there,

337
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Speaker 6: you know.

338
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Speaker 8: I mean I went a couple times, but that Baker's

339
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 8: Keyboard lounge, do you know? But Baker's, Uh, I not

340
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,119
Speaker 8: heard of it. Bakers is really where the Funk Brothers

341
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,879
Speaker 8: came from. It's still in existence. It's a jazz club,

342
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Speaker 8: and you know the Motown, the Funk Brothers, they were

343
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Speaker 8: all jazz players, right, so most.

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Speaker 6: Of them came out of there. But it was you know,

345
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Speaker 6: my father did not like me.

346
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Speaker 4: Having the these.

347
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 8: Tastes that I had for black culture, so I wasn't

348
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 8: really allowed to go out. He couldn't stop me from

349
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Speaker 8: going to Motown, especially once I got my driver's license.

350
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Speaker 6: But I always like to.

351
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,879
Speaker 8: Say I did get the last word with My father

352
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 8: passed away in two thousand and two, and the very

353
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 8: very last words that I said to him, I leaned

354
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Speaker 8: down and I whispered in his ear.

355
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:32,920
Speaker 4: I just got the gig to write the color purple.

356
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Speaker 8: And he was gone within the hour, gone gone. So

357
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Speaker 8: whatever he put me through, I got him good.

358
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:49,920
Speaker 4: Oh God, sibling wise, are you the only sibling or no?

359
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,360
Speaker 8: I have an older brother and sister, one still in Detroit.

360
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 8: My sister lives in Omaha. But they did not have

361
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,239
Speaker 8: a fascination with Detroit the way that I did. Were

362
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 8: you the middle child, youngest? Oh you were the young yeah?

363
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: Okay, explain yeah, So back to so when you left

364
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 1: Detroit and uh college and whatnot? When did you did

365
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 1: you go to La A X And.

366
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,679
Speaker 8: I, well, I have the job at the record company

367
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 8: from sixty nine actually to seventy four. But in nineteen

368
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,680
Speaker 8: seventy two I wrote my first song okay, and I

369
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 8: took it to my boss at the record company, the

370
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,920
Speaker 8: head of the advertising department. Actually I took the first

371
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:42,119
Speaker 8: three that I wrote, and he took those to a

372
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,239
Speaker 8: guy named Ron Alexenburg. He was head of Ever at

373
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 8: the time, and then Alexembourg not knowing it was me

374
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 8: because it was a conflict of interest to work there

375
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 8: and be an arm to.

376
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 4: An artistry and I didn't want to lose my job.

377
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,200
Speaker 8: Alexembourg liked it and then took it to Clive, so

378
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,360
Speaker 8: Clive had to sign off on and then I got

379
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 8: a deal, so I had to quit.

380
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,680
Speaker 6: And I had one album that came out. First ten

381
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 6: songs I Ever.

382
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 8: Wrote did not make it. Actually got great reviews, but

383
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,919
Speaker 8: it had zero sales, so.

384
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,120
Speaker 4: I was doing four.

385
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 8: I only did four live appearances. I was terrified of

386
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Speaker 8: performing the first performance they put me opening for a

387
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 8: folk singer. I had an all black band dressed as

388
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 8: sequin vegetables, and everyone.

389
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,880
Speaker 6: In my band like went on to do something great.

390
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:46,359
Speaker 3: Put it in.

391
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, well Bob Babbitt, who was yeah, yeah, they liked me.

392
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 4: I don't know.

393
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 8: The greatest thing is that tonight at the Songwriters Hall

394
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 8: of Fame induction, the background singer is the very very

395
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 8: first singer that I ever hired to be in my

396
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 8: band at the time, Phonsie Thorn Frozzie Thornton.

397
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,959
Speaker 4: Yes he's getting inducted to no, no, he's.

398
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 6: Singing backgrounds on Neutron Dance in September.

399
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 4: Which the Phronsie's like Luther, like just name it, like

400
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 4: well yeah, like.

401
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 6: Best favorite Luther since Kindergarten.

402
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,959
Speaker 8: But the amazing thing is Luther was Phonsie's piano player,

403
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 8: and Phonsie actually had a group. There were three of them,

404
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 8: and so I ended up hiring the three of them

405
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 8: and leaving Luther behind.

406
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 4: Luther was pissed off.

407
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 6: But Luther, that was my very first music click.

408
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 4: That was like family to me. Speak.

409
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 1: Wait now that you're here, all right, I gotta ask

410
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: you quasi personal. Does the name Billy Jackson mean anything

411
00:23:58,359 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 1: to you?

412
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 6: I mean, I know.

413
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:03,280
Speaker 4: Formerly other times.

414
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 1: I know he wrote so in Love for the Times,

415
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: but he was also a staff producer at Columbia.

416
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 8: No, I don't think I know the same Billy Jackson.

417
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 8: But So in Love is absolutely my favorite all time records. Anyway, So,

418
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 8: so what happened was, so I go out on tour.

419
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,360
Speaker 6: It was disastrous.

420
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:28,240
Speaker 8: I never relaxed one second on stage, and I didn't

421
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 8: want a tour anymore, and then I lost my deal

422
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 8: like four months after the album came out. That night,

423
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 8: one of my my best friends were the Harlottes. They

424
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,880
Speaker 8: sang you know, Bette Midler and one of them Sharon Red,

425
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 8: who went on to have like a bunch of like

426
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 8: disco things. Sharon Red, that was my best best Wait,

427
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 8: she was a heartlet Sharon Red. Yes, and as Charlotte

428
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 8: Crossley Charlot do you know Charloh I don't know that name,

429
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 8: but yeah, Sharon Sharon Read?

430
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, who was Sharon Ray?

431
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 2: Why should we know her?

432
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 8: Well, she had a bunch of disco Yeah the name

433
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 8: that you know, yeah that you just but as a DJ,

434
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 8: I know that name, so I lost my record deal.

435
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 8: She said, you shouldn't be alone come to this recording

436
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 8: session I'm doing. I don't want to fucking be at

437
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 8: a recording session if I've just lost my deal, you know.

438
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 8: But she was like adamant about it, and I went

439
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 8: and it was another one of these unbelievable things that

440
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,399
Speaker 8: I am blessed to have happened to me.

441
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 4: We opened the.

442
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 8: Door to the studio was the Hit Factory, which is

443
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 8: where I also recorded my one album that came out

444
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 8: and produced by Jerry Ragavoy, by the way, and opened

445
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 8: the door and the singer who I didn't know, took

446
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 8: one look at me, and she literally ran over to

447
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:59,640
Speaker 8: me and got on her knees and started bowing and said,

448
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 8: what are you doing here? You should go home and

449
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 8: write me a song, And it was Bonnie Ray wo whoa.

450
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 8: I got my very first cover the next day and

451
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 8: went on the road with her for a short while,

452
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 8: singing backgrounds. And then you figure, well it's going to roll,

453
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 8: but it didn't roll. I'd get a couple things cut

454
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,920
Speaker 8: a year, but nothing significant, and then Patty LaBelle in

455
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 8: nineteen seventy eight, same person, Sharon red I had my

456
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 8: songs because the Harlot's got a record deal and it

457
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 8: was with the same producers doing Patty LaBelle. Patty heard

458
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 8: the songs and then flew me up to San Francisco.

459
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 8: I was living in LA by that time, and flew

460
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 8: me to San Francisco to make demos because they didn't

461
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 8: have any money to make demos. She was just hearing

462
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 8: like piano vocals, and then Patty became the first one

463
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 8: to regularly cut the songs.

464
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 6: She said, I have a friend who's also up here recording.

465
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,880
Speaker 6: Go into Studio B. He needs lyrics.

466
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 8: I hated just writing lyrics and I didn't want to

467
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 8: be with the friend. I'm finally with the big cheese,

468
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 8: so what do I want to be with the friend for?

469
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 8: So for two days I avoid going into this studio.

470
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 4: She was in Studio A. He was in Studio B, way.

471
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 8: Down the hall, and I was going walking down the

472
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 8: hall and the door to Studio B open and I go, shit,

473
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 8: that's the guy. And I head into the bathroom. So

474
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 8: I'm in the bathroom. I had to pee anyway, So well,

475
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 8: I wanted to be with Patty. Yeah, So anyway, I'm

476
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 8: like sitting on the toilet and the door to the

477
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 8: bathroom my fence, and I hear clump, clump, clump, and

478
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,360
Speaker 8: these two male feet slide under the bathroom door.

479
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 4: Sure, and all he he in.

480
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 8: This like deep voices, like Patty says a really good writer,

481
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 8: you know, come into Studio B.

482
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 6: So I go into Studio B, and I figure, I'm trapped.

483
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 4: I'm like a speed.

484
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 2: Writer, and now you to cuss HI out with coming

485
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 2: in the bathroom.

486
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 6: No, no, no, it was no because I knew I

487
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 6: was messing up by not going in.

488
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 8: I mean, I'm, you know, I finally meet like a

489
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 8: star and I'm already not doing what she, you know,

490
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 8: said overwhelming. Yeah, well this was overwhelming because we had

491
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 8: he had all these tracks, and so I'm sitting across

492
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 8: from him and We're just firing these lyrics off. And

493
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 8: it was not until the middle of the second song

494
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 8: Swear to God that he had a phone call, and

495
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 8: I really started staring at him, you know, and I went,

496
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 8: oh my god, it's Herbie Handcot.

497
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 4: Wait, do not tell me this is out. Just come

498
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 4: run into me.

499
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 6: Got written, Yes, exactly exactly.

500
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 8: That was the first one IoT that before I realized

501
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 8: it was Herbie Hancock.

502
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 4: Shyeah, see this is what you don't know. And I

503
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 4: can't even believe you know that song. No you with

504
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 4: this is what you don't know.

505
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: That song is a very significant song to my, my generation,

506
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: my clique. Another detroiter that you might not be aware

507
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: of a producer.

508
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:29,920
Speaker 4: Named Jay Dilla. Oh I mean yeah, yeah. He his

509
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 4: gift if you heard the term like oh, musicians, musician

510
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 4: or song song. Yeah.

511
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: Usually he's like an obscure person that the regular people

512
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: don't get, but only the special people get.

513
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was the producer's producers producers. Wow.

514
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: So and not even to put myself in that category,

515
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: like only the special people got this guy. But what

516
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: he managed to do, of course, you know hip hop works.

517
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: A lot of work is derivative off of other people,

518
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: you know, sampling and all that stuff. So, uh, which

519
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: is weird. I'm saying this as of this date, eighteen

520
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: years ago. Uh, Fantastic Volume two came out today as

521
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: of this speaking. I'm sure that this will go.

522
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 4: Away, yes, this right right right? Yeah, but.

523
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: Uh, you know, normally in an album like Sunlight wouldn't

524
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: have necessarily gotten a second look. I mean it, there's

525
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: some classics on it. But it wasn't until Jay Dillon

526
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: made us pay attention to it and especially just come

527
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: running to me. That means that's almost like, you know,

528
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: you're tired of people telling you like how much the

529
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: friends theme means to them. I never get tired of

530
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 1: it myself right now.

531
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 4: That's like for the Neil Soul generation. Yeah, yeah, that

532
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 4: that means everything, like of all you like, of all

533
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 4: the things you've done. Yeah, that song means the most

534
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 4: of me.

535
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 8: That is so shocking because I couldn't even sing it

536
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 8: to you. Now, that's like how little.

537
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,400
Speaker 1: I mean, there's the reason why I'm like I hired

538
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: vocoder players and stuff. Even when when Hermie comes around,

539
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: I was like, really like that's what you Wantdow, I

540
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: got everything else, Like why that song is amazing?

541
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 8: Well, we we wrote like three or four songs like

542
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 8: that day, of which that was, you know, one of them,

543
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 8: and then it was the Feat Down Failed Now.

544
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 4: The next album.

545
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was almost like the sequel to it. Yeah,

546
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: but that's yo, dog Wow. The fact that that almost

547
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: didn't happen and you were avoid it only.

548
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 6: Happened because he had nerve to come into the bathroom.

549
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 4: I wish Bill was here man. Yes, okay, so basically,

550
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 4: uh uh okay, play the original teach us. I haven't

551
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 4: done this in so long because you know, I haven't

552
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 4: heard it since then. So basically, literally I.

553
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 6: Have Maybe the last time I heard this was nineteen eighty.

554
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 4: I listened to this about ten times a week. Wow.

555
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 3: I don't understand how you write something like this without

556
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 3: knowing how to just falllng.

557
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 8: I mean because I didn't. I didn't know how to play,

558
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 8: so I had to like teach myself.

559
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 4: So he wrote the music person and told you to

560
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 4: come with lyrics, yeah.

561
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 6: Music, well yeah, and then I sat with him and

562
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 6: we wrote the lyrics.

563
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 4: Yeah. That's It's crazy to me because I don't even

564
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 4: is this the first time that he sang lyrics to Yeah?

565
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 8: And it's why I never put together, really that it

566
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 8: was Herbie Hancock, because what does he need lyrics for?

567
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 6: But he had just gotten the vote co order.

568
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 3: Wait, I never feel like I heard Herbie sing before.

569
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's have a question. Still unbelievable. I haven't heard

570
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 4: that in so long, so for us at least hang

571
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 4: on a second.

572
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 2: Oh yes, of course, what was your singing voice?

573
00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 8: Like my singing voice is as high as my speaking

574
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 8: voice is low, like like in the oh zone.

575
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's likely.

576
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: Well wait that's the thing I want to know. Well,

577
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: I really want to get to Boogie wonder Lamb. But

578
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: you're the imagery, like what all your subject matters and

579
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: yourlyrics are just on some next level Like as far

580
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: as the the imagery.

581
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 8: Is, if I'm left to my own devices, they it is,

582
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 8: but certain like I was very upset writing September, even

583
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,840
Speaker 8: though I was so excited, I couldn't stand it. But

584
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 8: it was such a song lyric lyric, and you know,

585
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 8: I was this journalism major. I wanted to write this

586
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 8: you know, incredible poetry or uh you know, story and

587
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 8: not have lines be as common as do you remember

588
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 8: the twenty first ninety September Love was changing the minds

589
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 8: of pretenders while chasing.

590
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,919
Speaker 6: The clouds away that cloud line.

591
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 8: I was ready to slip my wrists, but you know

592
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 8: you're writing in that case with Maurice and and al

593
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 8: McKay also, who's unbelievably fantastic.

594
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 4: But the lyric end of it was just with Maurice.

595
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 4: It was so dark though, but for such a happy song.

596
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 8: Yeah, well dark as Boogie Wonderland that's the one that's

597
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 8: really dark, well in the verses. But but I learned

598
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 8: an incredible lesson, the single most important lesson in my

599
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 8: songwriting career, from Maurice during September.

600
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 6: Because I was very.

601
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 4: He always used the term or.

602
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 8: The nonsensical word body e when he would write anything.

603
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 6: So if it was like he was doing that's the

604
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 6: way of the world, you know, he would have gone.

605
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:42,919
Speaker 4: Yeah.

606
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 8: So that came right at the top of the chorus

607
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 8: is September. You know, body a sadie. Remember body dancing

608
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 8: in September? Body yad never was a cloudy day. So

609
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 8: I kept saying throughout the writing because we wrote September

610
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 8: to be the only the new single on the Greatest Hits,

611
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 8: and at the same time we were writing the whole

612
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 8: I Am album, so it took, you know, months to

613
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 8: actually complete any of the songs because they were all

614
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:19,560
Speaker 8: being written at once. So for September, I kept saying,

615
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 8: oh my god, this is such a hit. We can't

616
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 8: leave body oah, it's got to be like real words.

617
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 8: And at first he was kind of humoring me. It's like, okay, well,

618
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 8: like replace them, but we don't need to do it

619
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 8: now because we know this section works, so we aren't

620
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 8: at the at midnight.

621
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 6: We were at Sunset Sound in LA and.

622
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 8: The whole album was due, plus September had to be

623
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 8: out of the studio at midnight. It was like ten

624
00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 8: minutes to midnight, and I went into the studio and

625
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 8: I did literally get on my knees and I'm clutching

626
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 8: his thighs. The man had the best thighs in the

627
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 8: music industry, I gotta tell you, and yeah, probably and

628
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 8: begging like we have to change body out of real words.

629
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 8: In his biography, he actually says I was crying while

630
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 8: I did this. So I was very emotional about this

631
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 8: because I think, oh my god, this song is gonna

632
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 8: go in the toilet because no one's who's gonna know

633
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 8: what body I means?

634
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 4: But by then body I was in the earth would

635
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 4: a fire Alexicon.

636
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 8: They yeah, had done yeah nas prominently, but yes, yeah,

637
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 8: and uh like sun Goddess or something like that right

638
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 8: in your head what would have fit those That was

639
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 8: part of the problem. Everything was corny, you know, because

640
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 8: you only have three syllables.

641
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 4: Give me examples like what was.

642
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 8: Well when we did try in white words, it was

643
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 8: still stuff that nauseated me, like, you know, oh my

644
00:37:55,840 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 8: love or you know yeah, yeah, no, no, it was hit, yes,

645
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 8: it was hideous. So anyway, but I'm still begging him,

646
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 8: and you know.

647
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 4: He was calm. It took a lot to like rile him.

648
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 8: I to this day, like never saw him angry or

649
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 8: anything or lift his voice to it, you know, to anyone,

650
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 8: just this serene being. And so I finally said, I

651
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 8: like scream, what the fuck does body on mean? And

652
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 8: he just said, who the fuck cares?

653
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 4: And that was it. That was the end of it.

654
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 4: And then the record was out in three weeks, and

655
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 4: my life changed, tell me changed, because that was the barbecue.

656
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 8: Yeah no, it still is. It's the song that wouldn't die.

657
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 8: It's it literally gets bigger every year.

658
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 3: I need to know more about body like we did, Maurice.

659
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's just a random sound.

660
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 4: They've just always you know, since that's the way the

661
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 4: world since opened our eyes. They just I could I

662
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 4: could tell you about.

663
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 8: Do you know, I know you'll know it hot dog

664
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 8: it because that, to me is one of my favorite

665
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 8: Maurice vocals. And that's all. Uh, I can't actually remember

666
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 8: who's that dogging around is? The only actual vocal in there.

667
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 6: Otherwise it's all by type, just phrases and sounds.

668
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: All right, we majorly skipped went straight to Earthwork Fire.

669
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: I want to get to Can't Let Go, But let's

670
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: let's go back.

671
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 8: To be another one that I thought insignificant, and that

672
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 8: song no Let Go, Yeah, that.

673
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 4: Is I still that's still my DJs like that to me,

674
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 4: that should have been that.

675
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 6: I think it was a B side of something it was, yeah, but.

676
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 4: It should have it should have been hit like that

677
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 4: to me.

678
00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 8: Wow, that's incredible that it's my obscure more obscure ones.

679
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 4: That you like, which I love. That's not incredible that wait,

680
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:10,879
Speaker 4: get to Angela Bluefield anyway, Oh my god, Oh my god.

681
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 4: I don't know which one the title track to the

682
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 4: one album that really didn't make it something about You.

683
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 4: It's in between Two Tough and Angel of the Night,

684
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 4: but the Angel of the Night. Here's the funny story

685
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 4: is that even though that didn't get much more.

686
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: I mean, i've her first four records, like my dad

687
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: was the biggest Angela Bluefield, that album didn't get that

688
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: much played. But here's the funny thing, Uh, growing up

689
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: and the Don't Touch my don't touch the stereo household.

690
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,240
Speaker 4: There was a scratch on side one of that Angela

691
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 4: Bluefield record, So you are.

692
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 8: And so.

693
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: You know, the way that our stereo was position was

694
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,359
Speaker 1: like far away from We had speakers all over the house,

695
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 1: universal speakers, but the stereo was in the living room,

696
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:10,359
Speaker 1: so like, if you want to change it, you gotta

697
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: go downstairs. Like you can listen to it in any

698
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: room in the house, but you still had to. And

699
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 1: so because of the way that the wax culture is,

700
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: I think it's the first line of the second verse of.

701
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 4: Something about you, which I think is you've been hungry

702
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 4: too long? It always skips.

703
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 1: My cousins were dirty, whereas since you've been hugd me too,

704
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: you've been huked me too long, since you've been hooking.

705
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 4: Ship used to always skip. And that memory that is

706
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 4: etched in my brain I can't even remember. Was the

707
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 4: churuse like kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, okay, that's all

708
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 4: I remember, though, Yeah, but it's just like yeah. But

709
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 4: the thing is is that I used the word hungry

710
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 4: all the time in lyrics though, so I know that

711
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:00,840
Speaker 4: it's me.

712
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 6: All the time. So what was you hungry for everything?

713
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 6: All the time.

714
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: Okay, so as a songwriter, Okay, I'm taking back to

715
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,719
Speaker 1: her seventy seven You're in the bath, so seventy eight,

716
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 1: well seventy eight, Yeah, how how terrifying was it living

717
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 1: check to check?

718
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 3: Like?

719
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 1: And how does a songwriter make a living in LA?

720
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,919
Speaker 1: Like this is like you just wait for the quarter

721
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,399
Speaker 1: to come? Did you get a publishing deal?

722
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 4: Did you? Like? How does that work?

723
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 8: I know I was pretty starving to death when I

724
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 8: first lost the job at Columbia Epic. I became a

725
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:48,319
Speaker 8: hat check girl at comedy clubs, so at Catcherizing Star,

726
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 8: and then there was a club called Reno Sweeney, which

727
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 8: was a cabaret that Bet Melissa Manchester, Barry Manilow Manhattan Transfer.

728
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:00,919
Speaker 4: Came out of there. Yeah.

729
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 5: So I.

730
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:07,439
Speaker 8: Was hanging coats at Reno Sweeney and well at both

731
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 8: of the clubs. Yeah, And I was also hanging posters.

732
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 8: I was going around the city with like glue and shit.

733
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 8: But I moved to California because it was if I'm

734
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 8: going to starve death, I'm doing it in the sun.

735
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 8: So I actually moved in seventy six, and no, I

736
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 8: was getting I was on unemployment, really not making money

737
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 8: at all. I did get one publishing deal with like

738
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,320
Speaker 8: a five thousand dollars advance, which to me was like

739
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 8: a million dollars.

740
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 4: Right was going home, back home?

741
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 8: Ever an option like I got a little bit never

742
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 8: no because of my father situation, and I.

743
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 4: Write letters like hey Dad, I'm doing fine. It was

744
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 4: like yeah no.

745
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 8: And every time I got a record cut, it was

746
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 8: by a black artist, and then I'd have to go

747
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 8: through the whole like conversation again. So not I only

748
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 8: got reat hatched to Detroit seven or eight years ago,

749
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 8: and then I became obsessive about it.

750
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 6: I always loved it in my heart, but I wasn't

751
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 6: going back constantly.

752
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 4: So he wasn't impressed with September and.

753
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 8: Dad, I got a number one hit, not to my face,

754
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 8: but I always heard from all my friends like, you know,

755
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 8: if we see your dad walking down the street, we

756
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 8: got to go to the other side because he'll talk

757
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,280
Speaker 8: about you for two hours and he'll show us clip,

758
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 8: he'll show them clippings and all of this.

759
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 4: But not not to me.

760
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 8: Really didn't give it up until right at the end,

761
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:38,800
Speaker 8: and then I sent him out with the color purple.

762
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: So even so, how do songwriters get paid is the artist, like, okay,

763
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 1: i'd see your starving.

764
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 4: Here's here's a couple hundred bucks just to.

765
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 8: It was really, you know, all my friends were songwriters,

766
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:57,280
Speaker 8: my whole little click.

767
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 6: Some became performers.

768
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 8: Those people we're making money, but the ones who were

769
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 8: just songwriters, we were basically just starving together. It was

770
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 8: quite an illustrious group. Everyone went on to like have

771
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:13,480
Speaker 8: hits and all pretty much around the same time. We

772
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 8: all kind of hit at the same time. But no,

773
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 8: we were collecting unemployment and.

774
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 4: Really that's it. Like when Patty.

775
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 8: LaBelle paid for me to go to San Francisco, that

776
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 8: was it. It's you know, the Harlot's were up there,

777
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 8: you know, which is how she heard it. So they

778
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 8: were like giving me money for food and she paid

779
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 8: for the tickets.

780
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: So that tasty album. Yeah, Patty, was that the only

781
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 1: time you worked with her before you got to Stir

782
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 1: It Up.

783
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 8: I was on a couple albums of her. I had

784
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 8: a couple songs per album, okay, for two or three albums. Yeah,

785
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 8: Stirred Up was like way aft, well relatively way.

786
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:03,479
Speaker 1: Aft, okay, Okay, So with uh, I know that you also, okay,

787
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 1: I gotta get to it's it's a big na bs.

788
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 4: No, it's a lot. But how what was on your

789
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 4: mind with Bookie Wonderland.

790
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 6: I can tell you exactly.

791
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:16,839
Speaker 4: I've been waiting for this movie.

792
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 3: I can tell you the other jewels she hold of

793
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 3: for you two. I forget about the other one with great.

794
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 8: Oh oh oh yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay. So Bookie

795
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,720
Speaker 8: Wonderland I wrote with John Lynn. John Lynn had written

796
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 8: Sun Goddess for Earth Wind and Fire, and he was

797
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 8: kind of he was managed by the same Cavallo Ruffalo

798
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 8: who you know managed Earth Wind and Fire. Denise Williams

799
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 8: like Prince Yeah, friends, yeah, oh, that's the story I

800
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 8: need to tell you.

801
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 6: So remember Prince.

802
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 8: Yes, and uh so, Maurice kept saying you two should

803
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 8: write together. So this would have been in March, I

804
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 8: think in nineteen seventy eight, so I already knew I

805
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:03,720
Speaker 8: had a whole bunch of Earth Wind and Fire stuff

806
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 8: coming out, but nothing had come out yet.

807
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 6: John had had something out, and.

808
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:13,240
Speaker 8: We wanted to use the word boogie, because every song

809
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 8: had boogie in it at that time, but we didn't

810
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 8: want to use it in the normal sense of the word,

811
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:24,760
Speaker 8: which you know, to dance. And I the night before

812
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 8: had seen the movie Looking for Mister Goodbar.

813
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:29,919
Speaker 4: Diane Keaton movie.

814
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 8: She goes out to disco's every night like her life

815
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:37,240
Speaker 8: is completely falling apart, but she gets into the club

816
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 8: and you know, her life is all of a sudden magical,

817
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 8: and she brings home a different guy every night to

818
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:48,800
Speaker 8: sleep with, and the audience has led to believe that

819
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 8: one of these guys is a serial killer.

820
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 6: Not what you thought you were going to hear for

821
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 6: Boogie Wonderland.

822
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 4: So we wanted to write.

823
00:47:56,760 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 8: A song about someone who's life was falling apart but

824
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,399
Speaker 8: would escape into this world of dance every night where

825
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 8: everything would be okay.

826
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 4: So we knew we.

827
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,720
Speaker 8: Wanted a really dark verse and we wanted a really

828
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 8: sparkling happy chorus.

829
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 6: So the h and we wrote the song actually in order.

830
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 8: So the you know the verse which people always come

831
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:28,480
Speaker 8: up to me and they say, book you Wonderland. It's

832
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 8: such a happy song, And I always say, have you

833
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 8: listen to the lyric? So but people sing it like

834
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 8: you know, you sing it phonetically. People sing along with it,

835
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 8: but they don't know what they're singing. So the verse is, uh,

836
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 8: midnight creeps so slowly into hearts of men who need

837
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 8: more than they get. Daylight deals a bad hand to

838
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,400
Speaker 8: a woman who's laid too many bets. The mirror stares

839
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 8: you in the face and says, a baby, it don't work.

840
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 8: You say your prayers though you don't care. You dance

841
00:48:58,800 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 8: to shake the hurt.

842
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 4: Then we wanted to.

843
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 8: The song was actually written in a different structure than

844
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 8: they recorded it in because they go from that, they

845
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 8: do the little dance boogie Wonderland chant, and then they

846
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 8: go right back into sounds fly through the night, I

847
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 8: chase my vinyl dreams, the boogie Wonderland.

848
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 6: I find romance when I start to dance in Boogie Wonderland.

849
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 8: But we inserted the chorus in between the verses, so

850
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 8: it went from this dark, depressing you're looking in the

851
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 8: mirror and feeling like shit, to all of the love

852
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 8: in the world can't be gone, all the need to

853
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 8: be loved, can't be wrong. All the records are playing

854
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 8: in my heart keep saying boogie Wonderland, And we wanted

855
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 8: that to sound almost Broadway ish, and how happy that

856
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 8: that music was. It was supposed to be like a

857
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 8: bipolar mood swing.

858
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 4: Yes it was. To the chorus, Yeah, and would you

859
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 4: write these lyrics? Do you just come out with the

860
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 4: complete prose or like, are you thinking of a rhythmic structure?

861
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 4: Are you thinking of.

862
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 1: Because that's a lot you're You're placing a lot of

863
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 1: poetic thought into the imagery. Yeah, but in my head,

864
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, well, how's this going to fit in

865
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 1: this line and this line and that line, and how

866
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:19,759
Speaker 1: can we.

867
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 8: Well we were we we definitely wrote the music. We

868
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 8: wrote the music to the verse verse, and then put

869
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 8: the words to that. Then we jumped to the chorus

870
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:34,840
Speaker 8: music and lyrics. I mean, every song is different. I

871
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 8: knew we were actually trying to write for Earth Wind

872
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 8: and Fire, but you know, so we knew it had

873
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 8: to have, like, you know, a certain rhythmic thing to it,

874
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 8: and because the chords were so dark in the in

875
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:52,839
Speaker 8: the verse, that seemed to fit.

876
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,720
Speaker 6: And the first few lines of the chorus came easy.

877
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 8: But we still didn't have boogie in it, and we

878
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 8: we didn't know how to work it in and we

879
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 8: didn't really know what to call the song. And the

880
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 8: course was last, yes, and the words Bookie Wonderland War

881
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 8: was the very last thing that we got.

882
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 4: So what was the it was.

883
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:26,880
Speaker 8: Originally called Johnny's Casino Lounge. So and we, yeah, we

884
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,439
Speaker 8: got the phone book out because we said, well, let's

885
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 8: look up names of clubs. So we looked up clubs

886
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:36,040
Speaker 8: and we looked up bars, and one we liked Johnny's,

887
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 8: and then there was another one called the Casino Lounge.

888
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 6: So the original chorus started out, come.

889
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 4: To Johnny's cassine no lounge.

890
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 6: That was the original things became all time favor.

891
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 8: Instead of you know, and then then we went, no, no,

892
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 8: it doesn't sound important enough. Earth Wind and Fire is

893
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 8: not going to sing Johnny's Casino Lounge. So then we

894
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 8: came to, uh, you know, all the Love in the

895
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 8: Wood can't be Gone, And when we got to all

896
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 8: the records are playing and mock keep saying when we

897
00:52:12,080 --> 00:52:16,399
Speaker 8: got there, it was we wanted Broadway, we wanted Cinderella,

898
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 8: we wanted you know something. So that just felt like

899
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 8: it was this incredibly broadwayish line. Neither one of us

900
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 8: like Feeder at all, but it was you know, what,

901
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 8: is like my fair lady or something. It just felt

902
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 8: like that kind of melody to us. So once we

903
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 8: got rid of Johnny's Casino Lounge, we tried to fit

904
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:37,320
Speaker 8: it in the end.

905
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:38,320
Speaker 5: Uh.

906
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,280
Speaker 6: Johnny's Cassine No Lounge.

907
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:44,239
Speaker 3: You know.

908
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: When you're writing these songs, are you thinking, first, let's

909
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: write a hit or you just trying to express an idea?

910
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 4: Well, in my head, I always wanted hits. So because

911
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,360
Speaker 4: I love layered It's so complex, it was like.

912
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:05,320
Speaker 8: It didn't dawn on me that anything was different about it,

913
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 8: which it was, seriously yeah, because my whole thing was

914
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,840
Speaker 8: there used to be this massive discussion between what is

915
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 8: art and what is commercial.

916
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:17,760
Speaker 6: And I grew up on Top forty radio.

917
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 8: I loved Top forty, so to me, the greatest songs

918
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 8: were when you could mesh those two things together as

919
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 8: opposed to making a decision between going one way or

920
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:29,879
Speaker 8: the other.

921
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:32,719
Speaker 6: So I was always trying to shove that in.

922
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 8: That song felt the whole way through like, Okay, that

923
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 8: is exactly what we're doing. So I But Boogie Wonderland

924
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:48,080
Speaker 8: only came about because we realized that even though we

925
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 8: set out to write a song using that word, we

926
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 8: hadn't used it. So we went, okay, screw it. Instead

927
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 8: of the club name, boogie Wonderland is.

928
00:53:58,520 --> 00:53:58,800
Speaker 5: Going to be.

929
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,960
Speaker 8: What this needs to be is the state of mind

930
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,720
Speaker 8: that this person is in when they go into the club.

931
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 6: So that state of mind became Boogie Wonderland.

932
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:14,560
Speaker 4: So are you having these philosophical discussions as you're doing it? Yes?

933
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: And I love writing that way. So is there like

934
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 1: a vision board or something like? Okay, so what do

935
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:21,839
Speaker 1: you want to write about?

936
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 6: And I mean, you know, I I have written with

937
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,320
Speaker 6: thousands of stupid people.

938
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 4: Thousands.

939
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 8: It's a drag to write with someone stupid because you

940
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 8: can't have these kind of discussions. I love having these

941
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 8: kind of discussions because you really like break it down

942
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:41,680
Speaker 8: and you.

943
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:48,120
Speaker 4: Know, like what she has became my all time right now,

944
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 4: this is amazing, this is.

945
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,879
Speaker 8: But John Lynn was someone you could have those kind

946
00:54:56,920 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 8: of discussions with. So, uh, you know, that was really

947
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 8: one of those songs where you're kind of intellectualizing it

948
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 8: the whole way through.

949
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:06,919
Speaker 4: See.

950
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 1: I just always felt that Boogie Wonderland was a I

951
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:14,120
Speaker 1: mean that to me was the when we talk about

952
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 1: troll culture, uh, the the the especially like in today's

953
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,400
Speaker 1: Internet society, when you speak of troll culture, yeah, the

954
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 1: the art of of of provoking someone whatever. Now usually

955
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,839
Speaker 1: in in the cannon in the songwriting canon of earth

956
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:37,719
Speaker 1: wind Fire. Yeah, Boogie Wonderland isn't necessarily in anyone's top ten,

957
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: but I always surface Earth and Fire fans were like,

958
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 1: they try to.

959
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:45,279
Speaker 4: Do a disco song, yeah, missed it. Yeah, And I

960
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 4: always had to argue, I'm like, yo, like Boogie Wonderland

961
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:49,760
Speaker 4: and Hey.

962
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: Yah are almost in the same Hey y'all is in

963
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:56,800
Speaker 1: the same category. Like Dre's actually making fun of the

964
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 1: audience that's embracing it. Yeah, and he says like they're

965
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,799
Speaker 1: not even listening to the lyrics where it's like he's

966
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:07,960
Speaker 1: literally saying, you know, people just want to shake their ass,

967
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:11,439
Speaker 1: but they're not even peeping the darkness of the song.

968
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:15,399
Speaker 1: And I noticed always felt that Boogie Wonderland was done

969
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 1: with a week. I thought it was let's make fun

970
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 1: of disco. Well it was with a week.

971
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,960
Speaker 8: I need to get you the demo of Boogie Wonderland,

972
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:26,359
Speaker 8: Yes you do, which you could actually guess you right

973
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 8: now because they do have it on my website. Yes,

974
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 8: but it was we always felt like we wrote it

975
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 8: as a song. They cut it as a groove, like

976
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 8: it was never meant to be all orchestrated like that.

977
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:44,240
Speaker 8: Oh so once you had the demo with the lyrics,

978
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 8: then they can do whatever they.

979
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 4: So when you heard the final product, what'd you think? Well,

980
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 4: I was at a bunch of the sessions.

981
00:56:51,040 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 8: It took me to hear that song as an oldie

982
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 8: to go, oh my god, it's really good. So at

983
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 8: the time I thought they sucked it up. Yeah, really, yes,

984
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 8: even though I was very excited, like we were at the.

985
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 4: String and horn sessions that just in terms of being

986
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:09,479
Speaker 4: in the room with those kind.

987
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 8: Of strings, those kind of horns was exciting, but it

988
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 8: did not feel appropriate for the song that we had written.

989
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 8: I mean, now, in hindsight, you know, I absolutely adore it,

990
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 8: but at the time it's like, what is all this

991
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 8: stuff doing on here?

992
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 5: You know?

993
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: But even in your Broadway vision of it, because Earthword

994
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: and Fire is theater, they are high, high theater, so yeah,

995
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 1: we I don't think they knew it at the time.

996
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: So I always felt this is a multi layered troll mastery,

997
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 1: Like I.

998
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 4: Can see that.

999
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, But the the demo was was different.

1000
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 4: The demo.

1001
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 8: You would have to hear the demo, John singing the

1002
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 8: lead on that I will get you the demo.

1003
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 6: I think that would be really interest thing for.

1004
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 4: You to hear.

1005
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:04,800
Speaker 1: Extremely also within in the stone. We can't ignore that

1006
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: you wrote in the stone? Yeah, what is that about?

1007
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:11,360
Speaker 6: At the time, I had no idea.

1008
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 8: You know. The first thing he ever said to me, Maurice,

1009
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 8: literally the very first thing was do you what do

1010
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 8: you know about Eastern philosophies?

1011
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 6: And it was like I knew nothing. I didn't even

1012
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 6: know what he was talking about.

1013
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:27,400
Speaker 4: That I always say I was as evolved as pop rocks.

1014
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 8: I was like, I was like strictly you know, pop culture,

1015
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 8: top forty radio, television, and you know, I knew he

1016
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 8: was into all this, you know, deep shit.

1017
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 4: So I said, I didn't know anything.

1018
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 8: So he gave me a list of books and sent

1019
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 8: me yes, and sent me to a store in La

1020
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 8: called the Body Tree, which was the Yeah, like just

1021
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 8: you could smell the incense.

1022
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 4: Like a mile away. It's still there. No it's not.

1023
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 6: There's a I meant the culture is still there.

1024
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not physically still there, but yeah, there's someone

1025
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,439
Speaker 1: that was associated with that place, that has another place

1026
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 1: similar to it.

1027
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,560
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so. So he gave me

1028
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 8: ten books and he said, the one you have to

1029
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 8: start with. It was called the Greatest Salesman in the World.

1030
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 8: And I thought oh, it's about advertising. I got this

1031
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 8: down and I opened it up and immediately it's not

1032
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,600
Speaker 8: about advertising, it's you know, the profits in.

1033
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 6: There in the old Egypt.

1034
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 8: And I got so confused immediately immediately. But in the

1035
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 8: Stone on that album, and I Am was supposed to

1036
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 8: be the song that kind of really got all of

1037
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 8: their philosophy in there, So I.

1038
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 6: Never understood it.

1039
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 8: As we were writing, he would basically tell me what

1040
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:59,680
Speaker 8: he wanted to say, and I would give him ten

1041
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 8: different lines that that said that. Now, of course I

1042
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 8: understand everything. It's very much let alone the phrase I am.

1043
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 8: He said, that's what I'm going to call the album.

1044
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 8: I said, what does I AM mean? Now, it's in

1045
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 8: every spiritual philosophy. You know that that there is, but

1046
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 8: you know very much about presence being in the now,

1047
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 8: in the Stone, the fact that that you know culturally

1048
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 8: that everything kind of is pre written, that man kind

1049
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 8: of there's this mindset for what man is and we

1050
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 8: have passed. And he very much believed in past lives

1051
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 8: and future lives. But that one I was flying by.

1052
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 6: The seat of my pants.

1053
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 1: Did you have a good report in friendship with Maurice White.

1054
01:00:56,280 --> 01:01:01,600
Speaker 1: I'm only asking because What makes I AM really significant

1055
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:06,920
Speaker 1: is the fact that even though even though all right

1056
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 1: so uh like and Steve, even though Marie's Richard Nichols,

1057
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:16,880
Speaker 1: which was Charles Stephanie yeah, passed away.

1058
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 4: Kind of leaving him to hold the ball and hold

1059
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 4: everything together, which I mean for the all in.

1060
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 1: All record, I felt like that just the sheer adrenaline

1061
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:32,880
Speaker 1: of Okay, now I have to drive this car and

1062
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 1: made Charles proud of me. But I always felt like,

1063
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 1: because I mean, you come into play. But also David Foster,

1064
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 1: he brought us the same day.

1065
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 4: We were both brought in.

1066
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 1: You two were brought this. Did you guys work together

1067
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 1: per se or were you like separate camps on.

1068
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 6: Some songs together?

1069
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,840
Speaker 8: And then I also did he had a solo album

1070
01:01:56,000 --> 01:02:01,400
Speaker 8: with Jay Grayden called The airplaye okay, oh yeah, uh yeah,

1071
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 8: so Graydon and Foster were kind of a team at

1072
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 8: that point.

1073
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:07,440
Speaker 4: You know what, I've had an Airplayer album forever. I

1074
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 4: didn't know that was David Foster. Yeah, yeah, Okay sings

1075
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 4: on that record. Yeah yeah.

1076
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 8: Another I can't remember the single. I think could it

1077
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 8: be alright something like that.

1078
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 4: It's a yacht rock classic.

1079
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:21,880
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, Well I like it then, okay, yeah, well, I.

1080
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 4: Mean if you like did his Office Rock, Yeah, it's

1081
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 4: a smooth la not a class.

1082
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:31,480
Speaker 1: Well no, no no, but I love like that cheesy

1083
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 1: Kidny Loggins. You like kitchen art, Yes, I love kitchen music.

1084
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,919
Speaker 4: Yes I do too, Yeah, I do. The Airplay album

1085
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 4: is right up there. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1086
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:44,960
Speaker 6: It was very nineteen eighty one, which is when it

1087
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 6: was yeah.

1088
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:49,919
Speaker 4: All that la musician Toto. Yeah, I live for this stuff.

1089
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:51,480
Speaker 2: Wait are you No?

1090
01:02:51,720 --> 01:02:55,120
Speaker 8: Toto was recording next door to us the whole way

1091
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:58,400
Speaker 8: through I Am. We had both studios locked out for

1092
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:03,720
Speaker 8: like a year at sound really er at Hollywood No, yeah,

1093
01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 8: I Am was cut both at Hollywood Sound and at

1094
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 8: Sunset Sound. I have a good Hollywood Sound story because Verdein, well,

1095
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 8: Michael Jackson was recording next door to us a lot

1096
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:16,960
Speaker 8: of the time. He would record during the day, total

1097
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 8: would come in at night, and uh, so Verdein kept saying,

1098
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 8: Michael Jackson wants to meet you, and it just we

1099
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 8: never coincided that we were there.

1100
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:33,000
Speaker 4: At the same time. And I think it was eighty one.

1101
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:35,920
Speaker 8: I guess finally we're there at the same time, and

1102
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 8: he said, let's go right now he's there.

1103
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 4: I go in.

1104
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 8: Michael Jackson stands up, he grabs my hand. We're shaking hands,

1105
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 8: and someone runs into the studio and says, Richard Pryor

1106
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:53,800
Speaker 8: just set himself on fire. Well, and Michael Jackson's hand

1107
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 8: just like went limp in my hand and he like

1108
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 8: fell back, and I thought.

1109
01:03:58,680 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 4: I gotta go now.

1110
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 6: And that was the only time I met Michael Jackson.

1111
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,840
Speaker 4: It was not the lamp at But I remember that,

1112
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 4: were you? Yes?

1113
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 2: Oh for the record, no, but yes, I remember.

1114
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 5: Yo.

1115
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 4: That was in April of eighty eighty, was it eighty Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

1116
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 4: that that news hit My aunt like lost it.

1117
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:24,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, that was something else anyway.

1118
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 3: Wait, so then, speaking of Michael Jackson, then we bring

1119
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:30,320
Speaker 3: up Greg Phillip Gangs, who was one of her besties.

1120
01:04:30,560 --> 01:04:33,520
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I'd go way back with him. He we

1121
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 4: love Greg. Yeah, great show.

1122
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, No, I've heard the podcast.

1123
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:43,200
Speaker 8: But the question, no, I know, you asked him a

1124
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 8: question and I don't he either didn't know the answer

1125
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 8: didn't answer was whether Earth Wind and Fire played on

1126
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 8: their records. Oh, and Ali Willis knows the answer. Yeah,

1127
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:02,000
Speaker 8: tell me, I have to say in my day, yes,

1128
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 8: they did. They played every instrument there were people like Paulino,

1129
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:10,880
Speaker 8: you know, Da Costa was coming in, but they played

1130
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 8: all their stuff. Later it started changing up a few years,

1131
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 8: just a few years later, and I think Maurice was

1132
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:26,840
Speaker 8: also getting conscious of hearing certain things and going what

1133
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:30,200
Speaker 8: we want to sound like this right, which to me

1134
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 8: then really.

1135
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 4: Deadened the Uh. Yeah, I think it's impossible.

1136
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 1: It's kind of like Doctor Drake like it's I think

1137
01:05:42,080 --> 01:05:45,680
Speaker 1: it's impossible because by that point, I mean, after nineteen

1138
01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:47,000
Speaker 1: seventy five, they.

1139
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:48,320
Speaker 4: Were such a force on the road.

1140
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 1: Well, I'll give it back an example like the Beach Boys,

1141
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:56,439
Speaker 1: to the point where if as a unit, the Beach

1142
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:58,720
Speaker 1: Boys were always touring on the road and kind of

1143
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 1: Brian was was at home, yeah, maintaining that.

1144
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:07,160
Speaker 4: So I always felt that there were more.

1145
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 1: Whoever could deliver the greatest performance musically on their records

1146
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 1: after nineteen seventy eight could do it. I mean I

1147
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: definitely feel it, for I mean on the Raised album,

1148
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 1: on their eighty one Rais album, there's.

1149
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 8: Yeah, by that time it was shifting, but certainly before

1150
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:28,640
Speaker 8: it was absolutely at least when I was.

1151
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:30,200
Speaker 6: There, Yeah, it was all them.

1152
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:33,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's always been a question. But Marie kind

1153
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:37,240
Speaker 1: of talked about in this book as well. Okay, so

1154
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 1: I always felt that you were the spiritual whisper.

1155
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 4: You have to tell me about working with Narada Michael

1156
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 4: Walden and is he always like that? Four? Yes?

1157
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:57,840
Speaker 6: Really him, He just cops me. Oh I was thinking

1158
01:06:57,920 --> 01:06:58,560
Speaker 6: the other way.

1159
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:07,640
Speaker 4: Oh, he's hype so hyper. Yeah, he's hyper on bang

1160
01:07:07,800 --> 01:07:10,480
Speaker 4: bang bang. Every time he talks to me. It's like

1161
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:13,360
Speaker 4: my science teacher from third grade.

1162
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:16,560
Speaker 8: He is. I would say, he's fifty percent that way

1163
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 8: and fifty percent the other way.

1164
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 6: And there's no medal, no medal. He is an unbelievably

1165
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 6: great guy.

1166
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 4: I love him.

1167
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:32,280
Speaker 8: I worked with him recently, but we started when he

1168
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:35,680
Speaker 8: used to open for Patty LaBelle. So when I started

1169
01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 8: getting my Patty stuff started, you know, hitting me up,

1170
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 8: let's write together, let's write together.

1171
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:45,320
Speaker 4: And I almost immediately got.

1172
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:47,840
Speaker 8: Sick of songwriting as soon as they started having hits.

1173
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 8: It was just because it was too much everyone and

1174
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:51,640
Speaker 8: their mother.

1175
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:55,760
Speaker 1: Yes, when something would hit, then people knock on your door. Yeah,

1176
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:58,720
Speaker 1: then the pressure to like September.

1177
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:01,240
Speaker 4: Yeah. And I think because I.

1178
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:04,480
Speaker 8: Was so associated with earth, wind and fire, people assumed

1179
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:07,360
Speaker 8: I was just a lyricist that drove me nuts and

1180
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 8: in a lot of earth wind and fire, I was,

1181
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:13,080
Speaker 8: but with no one else was I and it never

1182
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:17,600
Speaker 8: was as interesting for me just writing lyrics as you know,

1183
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:20,080
Speaker 8: versus writing music and lyrics.

1184
01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:23,360
Speaker 4: So by the time Narda got to.

1185
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:27,920
Speaker 8: Me, which was after September was out, I was trying

1186
01:08:27,920 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 8: to weed out who you know, I was writing. I

1187
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:36,280
Speaker 8: was getting over one hundred songs cut a year, which

1188
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 8: so I was a machine. I would write five six

1189
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 8: hundred songs a year. I mean I was writing three

1190
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:42,599
Speaker 8: four songs a day.

1191
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 4: Wow, So how do you not get numb from that process?

1192
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:46,439
Speaker 4: I did.

1193
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:50,759
Speaker 6: I stopped enjoying it almost as soon as I had hits.

1194
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:55,200
Speaker 1: How do you know what's your creative process? Because the

1195
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:57,479
Speaker 1: number for you to turn out that many a day,

1196
01:08:57,600 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 1: it's like, how do you not get it?

1197
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 8: It was mostly writing lyrics and I just started hating it.

1198
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 8: It was exciting at first because you get on everyone's album,

1199
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:10,479
Speaker 8: but I didn't think musically most of the time. It's like,

1200
01:09:10,760 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 8: if I had been co writing the music, Bar five

1201
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:15,519
Speaker 8: would have been somewhere else, you know.

1202
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:20,519
Speaker 6: So it eventually led to it led to really me

1203
01:09:20,680 --> 01:09:23,880
Speaker 6: being kind of miserable. The more songs I got cut.

1204
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:28,599
Speaker 8: Between eighty eighty one is when I really started feeling

1205
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:30,240
Speaker 8: like I can't keep doing this.

1206
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:33,760
Speaker 6: Is it's going to make me hate musical Yeah.

1207
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:41,000
Speaker 8: And then eighty three it happened with a Manhattan Transfer song.

1208
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:45,599
Speaker 8: They had me write lyrics. There was a spyro gyra

1209
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:49,960
Speaker 8: song called Shaker Song, and so they had me and

1210
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:54,599
Speaker 8: David Lasley, who was a frequent collaborator of mine incredible.

1211
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:56,400
Speaker 4: Put lyrics to it.

1212
01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:58,960
Speaker 6: It's like, what are we going to do with with Shaker?

1213
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:02,080
Speaker 4: You know, what what is that? And it took us forever,

1214
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:03,440
Speaker 4: you know, we finally.

1215
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:07,759
Speaker 8: Figured out, oh, he can't shaker as opposed to Shaker.

1216
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:12,880
Speaker 8: But what they wanted was a jazz song where every

1217
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:17,280
Speaker 8: single phrase had a lyric to it with very little repeat.

1218
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:22,120
Speaker 6: So it was a four page, single space lyric.

1219
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 8: If it just was that went linear, you know, the

1220
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:29,640
Speaker 8: four lines repeated where Shaker was it would repeat. Otherwise

1221
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 8: it constantly changed. Took forever to write, so they I

1222
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 8: was really good friends with all of them, and they

1223
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:40,840
Speaker 8: called up nineteen eighty one. This was I was already

1224
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:44,479
Speaker 8: at the point of like, I'm not interested in doing

1225
01:10:44,560 --> 01:10:47,439
Speaker 8: this anymore. It's just it's too much because we write

1226
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:51,080
Speaker 8: that many songs, what is there to say? And I'm

1227
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 8: writing mostly to music that I didn't care about.

1228
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 6: But I was getting on these huge albums.

1229
01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:02,760
Speaker 8: So Tim Howse was the you know, his group, He

1230
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:05,120
Speaker 8: called up and he said, now we want to do

1231
01:11:05,439 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 8: pick up the pieces Average White Band and so write

1232
01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:12,000
Speaker 8: a lyric to that, and we need it like on Monday,

1233
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 8: and it was my birthday that weekend. I'm a huge

1234
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:18,920
Speaker 8: party thrower. That is my number one skills parties way

1235
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 8: above music, way above music. So I thought, oh god,

1236
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 8: now I have to do what I did to Shaker Song,

1237
01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:30,840
Speaker 8: which was nightmarish. Even though I loved the Shaker song,

1238
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 8: but it was a really hard song to write. So

1239
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:39,720
Speaker 8: you think about Average White Band, you know, it's like,

1240
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 8: oh my god, I got to do this all the

1241
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:43,040
Speaker 8: way through, and I know.

1242
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:45,440
Speaker 6: There can be very few, you know, repeats.

1243
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:48,120
Speaker 4: So it ruined my birthday weekend.

1244
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:51,679
Speaker 8: I just you know, sat there writing around the clock

1245
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 8: and I handed it in and Tim said, oh, we

1246
01:11:55,640 --> 01:12:00,200
Speaker 8: just wanted the chorus. Oh yeah, And that was at

1247
01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:03,600
Speaker 8: the point where I went, I'm out, I can't do

1248
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 8: this because I also what I was doing is I

1249
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:08,719
Speaker 8: would wipe with a group or you know, an artist,

1250
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:12,799
Speaker 8: and I'd write seven or eight songs and then maybe

1251
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:13,599
Speaker 8: they would do one.

1252
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:15,280
Speaker 6: If you were lucky, they would do one.

1253
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 8: And I just felt like songwriters get so taken advantage of.

1254
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:23,479
Speaker 8: It's not like you're getting Josh Wright and it's you know,

1255
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:26,640
Speaker 8: don't make me do eight songs if you know you

1256
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:29,160
Speaker 8: already got nine songs on the record, So what am

1257
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:33,000
Speaker 8: what am I doing this for? And then pick up

1258
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:35,880
Speaker 8: the pieces that like put it over the top. So

1259
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:39,600
Speaker 8: I spent the next two years being completely miserable, but

1260
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:42,320
Speaker 8: still getting a lot of songs cut, which is a

1261
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 8: lot of the reason why I don't know the Angela

1262
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:48,240
Speaker 8: Beaufield song or you know, probably you know tons of

1263
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:50,080
Speaker 8: them because there were so many in there.

1264
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:55,479
Speaker 4: It's so an incredible burden a half because these words

1265
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:56,519
Speaker 4: are just pouring out of you.

1266
01:12:58,160 --> 01:13:00,720
Speaker 1: I know, I'm presenting this romantic version of like the

1267
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 1: gods are just pouring words out of you, But.

1268
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:08,280
Speaker 8: It's like, but words that you stop caring about between

1269
01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 8: writing so much and not caring about some of the music,

1270
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:14,040
Speaker 8: feeling that the music could have been so much better.

1271
01:13:14,200 --> 01:13:18,040
Speaker 4: So when something doesn't make it, where is it in

1272
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:18,719
Speaker 4: the garbage?

1273
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:20,679
Speaker 2: Can you didn't know somebody else?

1274
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 4: No, No, well yeah, oh no.

1275
01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:27,200
Speaker 8: I mean for every song I have out, there are

1276
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:31,680
Speaker 8: ten others sitting there. Nothing happens with them, especially if

1277
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:33,960
Speaker 8: it's not music that you thought was that great and

1278
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:35,080
Speaker 8: you were writing with.

1279
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:39,519
Speaker 4: A specific artist. So no, it was.

1280
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:44,040
Speaker 6: There were hundreds of songs, just like you know, dead Fish,

1281
01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:45,479
Speaker 6: you know that.

1282
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 8: It was.

1283
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:49,320
Speaker 4: It was literally like, where is that? Pick up the pieces?

1284
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:52,360
Speaker 4: I'm I'm the world's biggest average white band. Fin Yeah,

1285
01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:54,519
Speaker 4: So just as a completist, where is that?

1286
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:57,560
Speaker 6: I'm sure I've got it somewhere.

1287
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 8: You know I have it, but you know, And so

1288
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:06,759
Speaker 8: I decided right there and then something has to change.

1289
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:12,720
Speaker 8: Took me a couple years, but out of total frustration,

1290
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:15,840
Speaker 8: I started to paint. And I was writing working with

1291
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:19,559
Speaker 8: one of the go gos at the time, and Jane

1292
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:23,680
Speaker 8: Weedling guitar, and she came in the very next day

1293
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:27,880
Speaker 8: and bought my first painting. So I thought, oh my god,

1294
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:30,519
Speaker 8: I have this built in you know, music audience. I'm

1295
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:32,879
Speaker 8: going to keep doing this. So I just started painting.

1296
01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:38,080
Speaker 8: It led to a lot of like sculptural things and whatever,

1297
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:40,560
Speaker 8: and that's what I mainly did in the eighties. I

1298
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:43,800
Speaker 8: was still writing, but the art was the main thing,

1299
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:46,160
Speaker 8: and I wanted to combine the art and the music.

1300
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:51,519
Speaker 8: So Neutron Dance became the very first motorized piece that

1301
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:55,400
Speaker 8: I did. So I had I wanted to get the kick, sure,

1302
01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:58,679
Speaker 8: I'm on the record to trigger the movement. Couldn't figure

1303
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 8: that out though, So it was mainly my interpretations of

1304
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:05,479
Speaker 8: what the songs were and I would cut out you know,

1305
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:09,720
Speaker 8: people and buildings and everything would be moving. I did

1306
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:12,599
Speaker 8: Neutron Dance that way. I then went back. I did

1307
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 8: Boogie Wonderland. I did what have I done to deserve this?

1308
01:15:16,160 --> 01:15:21,040
Speaker 8: And the biggest fan of my motorized art was James Brown. Really, yeah,

1309
01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:23,600
Speaker 8: that was and I have video of every inch of

1310
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:25,800
Speaker 8: him ever, like being in my house.

1311
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:28,120
Speaker 3: Because she said you had a story, because he was

1312
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:29,439
Speaker 3: the reason that you started.

1313
01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:33,800
Speaker 8: Well, James, you know, I always collected memorabilia, and I

1314
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:39,760
Speaker 8: loved black memorabilia, specifically late sixties, early seventies, massive afros,

1315
01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 8: the fashions.

1316
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:44,240
Speaker 4: Talk about what's what's in your Oh my god, it's

1317
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:44,960
Speaker 4: unspeakable now.

1318
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 6: But yeah, on speaking, you need a trip to Willis Wonderland, that's.

1319
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:49,559
Speaker 2: What you next.

1320
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 6: Elli, Uh, but you know, I wasn't originally, you know,

1321
01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:56,680
Speaker 6: I was.

1322
01:15:56,920 --> 01:15:59,679
Speaker 8: There were sambos in there, there were mammy's and James

1323
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:04,400
Speaker 8: Brown went around my house. He asked me for a

1324
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 8: grocery bag. Oh yes, James gave him a Brown grocery bag.

1325
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:13,760
Speaker 8: And now, but mostly my stuff was the massive afros,

1326
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:16,560
Speaker 8: but there were Jemima's in there and other things. And

1327
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:19,600
Speaker 8: he would go and he would pick it up and

1328
01:16:19,720 --> 01:16:21,640
Speaker 8: he'd hold it about four feet in the air, and

1329
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 8: then he'd go bing and he'd let.

1330
01:16:23,439 --> 01:16:25,320
Speaker 6: His hand go and you could hear it smashing in

1331
01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:27,920
Speaker 6: the bag. So I have the bag too. I have

1332
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:29,160
Speaker 6: all the smashed pieces.

1333
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:32,360
Speaker 2: So that's like an art piece you could make.

1334
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:35,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I know, I know. So uh.

1335
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:38,680
Speaker 6: He was the one that really said this stuff is

1336
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 6: not cool.

1337
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:43,360
Speaker 8: And but the rest of my stuff, he said, you

1338
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:48,800
Speaker 8: have to keep collecting this because black people did not

1339
01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:51,640
Speaker 8: know these things were around. There wasn't enough money to

1340
01:16:51,800 --> 01:16:56,080
Speaker 8: distribute stuff. So if something was made in Detroit, it

1341
01:16:56,200 --> 01:17:00,200
Speaker 8: wasn't going to get past Cleveland. And very specifically a

1342
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:04,360
Speaker 8: couple of games that I had, one called Slangling nineteen

1343
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:08,320
Speaker 8: sixty nine made in Detroit. I think Irene Carter is

1344
01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:14,040
Speaker 8: the company at Black bingo. So instead of b I NGO,

1345
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:18,879
Speaker 8: it's b L A C K and yeah. And instead

1346
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:23,280
Speaker 8: of that middle free space, it's we are free people.

1347
01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:23,759
Speaker 2: Wow.

1348
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:29,200
Speaker 8: And then instead of the numbers, it's Chitlin's Wo Funky

1349
01:17:29,320 --> 01:17:31,760
Speaker 8: Broadway Cadillac.

1350
01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:37,439
Speaker 4: Gold Tooth. I mean, amazing stuff it is. We're here

1351
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:38,479
Speaker 4: right now from the Smithson.

1352
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:41,679
Speaker 2: Have you talked to Smithsonian about some of your stuff?

1353
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:41,800
Speaker 3: No?

1354
01:17:42,200 --> 01:17:44,639
Speaker 4: You know, You're like, you know, no, I'm I'm ready

1355
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:45,120
Speaker 4: to talk.

1356
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:47,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I have to make an introduction to Timothy and

1357
01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:49,680
Speaker 1: Burnside at the Smithsonian.

1358
01:17:49,720 --> 01:17:49,840
Speaker 4: Who.

1359
01:17:50,040 --> 01:17:53,719
Speaker 8: Well, wait, this is an unbelievable conversation because in twenty

1360
01:17:53,880 --> 01:18:01,639
Speaker 8: twenty I was supposed to have a pretty major exhibition

1361
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:04,759
Speaker 8: of my collection and my work and how it worked together.

1362
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:08,280
Speaker 4: And this morning before I came here.

1363
01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:13,320
Speaker 8: I got a thing that the CEO of the Childs

1364
01:18:13,400 --> 01:18:17,559
Speaker 8: Wright African American Museum, which is the second largest African

1365
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:21,920
Speaker 8: American museum next to the Smithsonian now in Detroit.

1366
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:26,080
Speaker 6: She resigned this morning. So there went the exhibition.

1367
01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:34,600
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, yeah, as soon as we're done, have

1368
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:35,040
Speaker 4: you been there?

1369
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:36,000
Speaker 5: No?

1370
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:37,960
Speaker 8: And I've got a couple of things because I know

1371
01:18:38,040 --> 01:18:40,559
Speaker 8: the color purple's there, earth wind and fires in there

1372
01:18:41,240 --> 01:18:42,280
Speaker 8: so I'm done.

1373
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:44,559
Speaker 3: And they have a like mammy section and a sand

1374
01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:47,719
Speaker 3: boat explaining about this, so you would really yeah.

1375
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:48,600
Speaker 6: Oh I would love it.

1376
01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:51,599
Speaker 8: But my stuff is all like one of my favorite

1377
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:54,120
Speaker 8: things is it's a do it It's called the do

1378
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:55,400
Speaker 8: it Yourself.

1379
01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:58,880
Speaker 4: Black Power coloring kit and.

1380
01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:03,840
Speaker 8: I love you, and all it is is a you know,

1381
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:07,000
Speaker 8: you got a puple little paints and then you get

1382
01:19:07,080 --> 01:19:09,920
Speaker 8: a figure that starts out as a white.

1383
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:14,040
Speaker 4: Man and you paint him black and.

1384
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:19,760
Speaker 6: He's got his fist. That was sixty eight, I think

1385
01:19:20,560 --> 01:19:21,160
Speaker 6: sixty eight.

1386
01:19:22,120 --> 01:19:24,880
Speaker 4: I thought I was, Oh no, I.

1387
01:19:26,360 --> 01:19:29,280
Speaker 3: Mean and then like talk about the correlation between your

1388
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:31,240
Speaker 3: house and Peewee's house.

1389
01:19:31,680 --> 01:19:34,040
Speaker 8: Well that people used to think that I did the set,

1390
01:19:34,120 --> 01:19:37,440
Speaker 8: which I didn't. We at that time were like inseparable.

1391
01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:41,479
Speaker 8: We were best friends, so we had very similar esthetic

1392
01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:47,760
Speaker 8: but I actually didn't have anything to do with that.

1393
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:50,720
Speaker 8: I did, though, write the title song that we did

1394
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:55,960
Speaker 8: as a duet to Big Adventure, But Danny.

1395
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:59,320
Speaker 4: Elfman, who you know, did all the music.

1396
01:19:59,120 --> 01:20:02,400
Speaker 8: For that, said, ain't no one else doing the title song.

1397
01:20:02,479 --> 01:20:06,320
Speaker 8: But I do have that the duet between me and Pee.

1398
01:20:06,160 --> 01:20:08,280
Speaker 2: Wee, that's the circus one right, The second movie.

1399
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 4: Uh that No, that was Pee Wee's Big Top.

1400
01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:13,200
Speaker 2: I was a big Pee wee fan.

1401
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:17,880
Speaker 4: It was Big Adventure was the first. Yeah, you wrote

1402
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:21,720
Speaker 4: lyrics to that theme? Yes? And no no, no, no, no, no,

1403
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:26,080
Speaker 4: no no no that was Mark mothersbow all that because no,

1404
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:28,759
Speaker 4: this music, it is awesome.

1405
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:32,240
Speaker 6: Really yeah no, the only thing that came.

1406
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 4: I just figured you would wake up to that, but

1407
01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:40,600
Speaker 4: apparently you just unbelievable.

1408
01:20:40,800 --> 01:20:43,040
Speaker 6: That's Marks and Cydney Lauper singing.

1409
01:20:43,200 --> 01:20:46,559
Speaker 4: Okay, so no, you're talking about the theme to his television.

1410
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:49,200
Speaker 6: Oh That's what I'm talking about about the theme to

1411
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:49,679
Speaker 6: his movie.

1412
01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:54,880
Speaker 8: Okay, yeah, yeah, but the the duet did come out

1413
01:20:55,080 --> 01:20:58,519
Speaker 8: on Warner Brothers. They made five hundred picture discs and

1414
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:03,360
Speaker 8: that's all. So So anyway, Greg filling games playing on

1415
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:03,760
Speaker 8: it too.

1416
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:12,240
Speaker 4: I have a question, since we're on your memorabilia, yeah stuff,

1417
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:13,719
Speaker 4: what's your record collection?

1418
01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:14,000
Speaker 8: Like?

1419
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:14,800
Speaker 4: After all?

1420
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:20,200
Speaker 8: You know, like I converted everything to digital because I

1421
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:24,040
Speaker 8: couldn't stand schlepping everything around anymore. I still have my

1422
01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:30,760
Speaker 8: favorite favorite favorite albums, mostly Motown, but it's not I

1423
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:34,360
Speaker 8: don't have it out though, but I have a lot.

1424
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:36,160
Speaker 4: Of music memorabilia.

1425
01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:43,600
Speaker 8: So, but James Brown was the one who said to me,

1426
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:48,040
Speaker 8: you have to keep collecting this stuff. You know, you

1427
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:50,880
Speaker 8: could have a museum with the stuff that you have,

1428
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:53,160
Speaker 8: because people don't know this.

1429
01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:54,800
Speaker 4: Stuff is in existence.

1430
01:21:55,640 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 6: So I you know, it was the Godfather saying collect act.

1431
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:01,920
Speaker 6: So I just kept going.

1432
01:22:02,240 --> 01:22:05,160
Speaker 4: So you just collect any type of kitchen art or

1433
01:22:05,240 --> 01:22:06,400
Speaker 4: pop culture or everything.

1434
01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:10,680
Speaker 8: Well, it's very specifically the periods. I used to be

1435
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:17,120
Speaker 8: most interested in the fifties. Now way more interested in sixties, seventies. Uh,

1436
01:22:18,160 --> 01:22:24,639
Speaker 8: kind of soul stuff, atomic stuff, Kitch stuff. The Kitch

1437
01:22:24,680 --> 01:22:29,040
Speaker 8: stuff didn't happen until later. I hated Kitch, but then

1438
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:30,120
Speaker 8: I art directed.

1439
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:32,400
Speaker 6: Why I just didn't it.

1440
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:37,679
Speaker 8: Was too I was into like more like fantastic design,

1441
01:22:38,479 --> 01:22:42,320
Speaker 8: and Kitch kind of was open poker. No, I wasn't

1442
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:46,360
Speaker 8: into that stuff, but then I art directed and production

1443
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:51,120
Speaker 8: designed Julia Julie Brown, Yeahrown, Yeah, the Julie.

1444
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:54,080
Speaker 4: Brown Show, which was the very first Downtown No the

1445
01:22:54,120 --> 01:22:58,599
Speaker 4: white one White there were ones. Yeah, yeah, I used

1446
01:22:58,600 --> 01:22:59,800
Speaker 4: to watch that show. No, she was good.

1447
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:02,639
Speaker 8: Yeah, and it was it was the very first MTV

1448
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:06,360
Speaker 8: clip show where someone was commenting on videos, so we

1449
01:23:06,400 --> 01:23:08,600
Speaker 8: would make fun you know of all the.

1450
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:10,839
Speaker 6: The videos.

1451
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:16,120
Speaker 8: Yes, yeah, and and and so that set had to

1452
01:23:16,200 --> 01:23:19,000
Speaker 8: be really kitchy and me and her, I remember we

1453
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:22,240
Speaker 8: went to the Long Beach Swamp Meet and there was

1454
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:26,759
Speaker 8: a painting of two clowns drinking a cup of coffee,

1455
01:23:27,439 --> 01:23:30,519
Speaker 8: and I thought, there's something hideous about this, but I

1456
01:23:30,640 --> 01:23:34,360
Speaker 8: knew it was right for her set and my deal

1457
01:23:34,439 --> 01:23:37,120
Speaker 8: because there was no budget. We would shoot ten shows

1458
01:23:37,720 --> 01:23:41,040
Speaker 8: in three days, and we did, like, you know, like

1459
01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:44,280
Speaker 8: every three months we would do another ten shows. And

1460
01:23:46,240 --> 01:23:49,479
Speaker 8: I we bought that painting and I just went I

1461
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:52,759
Speaker 8: could feel it that I just had crossed a line.

1462
01:23:53,439 --> 01:23:56,240
Speaker 8: And then I went crazy because it became this whole

1463
01:23:56,320 --> 01:23:59,880
Speaker 8: new thing to collect, you know, so like I can

1464
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:03,559
Speaker 8: hit her that black Power statuette part of my kitch collection,

1465
01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:08,280
Speaker 8: because they could have made him tan to start out with.

1466
01:24:08,439 --> 01:24:10,679
Speaker 8: They didn't need to make him like pure white.

1467
01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:11,640
Speaker 3: You know.

1468
01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:14,920
Speaker 6: I see so a lot of stuff like that.

1469
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:19,920
Speaker 8: Like I have the unbelievably great graphic on these pantyhose

1470
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:24,840
Speaker 8: called Touch a Soul, and you know, it's this almost

1471
01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:27,880
Speaker 8: nude woman almost like she's praying and she's in the

1472
01:24:27,960 --> 01:24:30,599
Speaker 8: middle of like this you know, red green and black

1473
01:24:31,680 --> 01:24:35,160
Speaker 8: circle thing. But then the shade of the pantyhose is

1474
01:24:35,320 --> 01:24:40,000
Speaker 8: off black, which is not right right, you know. And

1475
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:44,280
Speaker 8: the Supremes, you know, the Supremes had white bread out,

1476
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:48,520
Speaker 8: so I've got the bread wrapper.

1477
01:24:50,120 --> 01:24:53,240
Speaker 4: White bread, and they got killed for it.

1478
01:24:53,439 --> 01:24:58,120
Speaker 8: I have Mary Wilson on film talking about how they

1479
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:03,599
Speaker 8: just you know, it killed them because the pumpernickel raw.

1480
01:25:04,240 --> 01:25:06,400
Speaker 2: But it wasn't a choice they have made. They couldn't.

1481
01:25:06,439 --> 01:25:10,160
Speaker 6: I mean, I know, but literally Supremes white bread.

1482
01:25:10,479 --> 01:25:11,479
Speaker 4: I mean, it's un.

1483
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:15,920
Speaker 3: Were you always the visual art piece? I want to

1484
01:25:15,960 --> 01:25:17,879
Speaker 3: say that we see today as far as wardrobe.

1485
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:20,800
Speaker 8: Once I got on my own, once I started cutting

1486
01:25:20,920 --> 01:25:25,479
Speaker 8: my record in nineteen seventy two, is when the clothing,

1487
01:25:25,600 --> 01:25:28,920
Speaker 8: Oh so you were just I was yeah, before that,

1488
01:25:29,160 --> 01:25:32,360
Speaker 8: I was like, you know, what would a college girl wear?

1489
01:25:33,160 --> 01:25:36,639
Speaker 8: You know, like not expressive at all. And then someone

1490
01:25:36,680 --> 01:25:39,479
Speaker 8: took me to a thrift shop and my life changed.

1491
01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:42,559
Speaker 4: Wait for me forget understand what was the print story?

1492
01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:47,840
Speaker 8: So well, we've kind of ruined the impact of the

1493
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:51,479
Speaker 8: story because we know who it is now. But there

1494
01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:54,960
Speaker 8: was this kid that always hung around earth Wind and

1495
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:57,360
Speaker 8: Fire had their own label when I Am came out,

1496
01:25:57,479 --> 01:26:02,880
Speaker 8: called Arc, and there was this weird kid always hung

1497
01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:05,760
Speaker 8: around the office, didn't talk to anyone, but he was

1498
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:11,120
Speaker 8: there one hundred percent of Yeah. And I.

1499
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:16,639
Speaker 4: I had heard all of the I Am album complete,

1500
01:26:16,680 --> 01:26:17,240
Speaker 4: but I never.

1501
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:18,200
Speaker 6: Heard it sequenced.

1502
01:26:19,400 --> 01:26:22,920
Speaker 8: So when I got the call come up Maurice's you

1503
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:25,720
Speaker 8: know they're on the road. Go in Maurice's office, it

1504
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:26,040
Speaker 8: was a.

1505
01:26:26,080 --> 01:26:29,360
Speaker 4: Reel to reel and you can hear the album sequence.

1506
01:26:29,720 --> 01:26:32,200
Speaker 8: I knew this was going to be an incredibly emotional

1507
01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:35,960
Speaker 8: thing for me because I knew this album was going

1508
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:37,240
Speaker 8: to change my life.

1509
01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:39,880
Speaker 6: You know, I'm still on food stamps.

1510
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:41,040
Speaker 4: At this time. Okay, So.

1511
01:26:43,040 --> 01:26:46,400
Speaker 6: I go in in the whole like a couple days before.

1512
01:26:46,520 --> 01:26:48,880
Speaker 8: I'm like so excited, and this is I'm going to

1513
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:52,479
Speaker 8: be in Maurice's office when I have this moment to myself,

1514
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:53,400
Speaker 8: I'm going to cry.

1515
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:54,920
Speaker 6: It's going to be unbelievable.

1516
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:58,080
Speaker 8: So I get up there and I'm closing the door

1517
01:26:59,479 --> 01:27:02,920
Speaker 8: and someone comes over and says, can't they used to

1518
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:03,639
Speaker 8: call him the kid?

1519
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:04,719
Speaker 4: Can the kid.

1520
01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:07,000
Speaker 6: Listen with you?

1521
01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:10,240
Speaker 8: And I thought, Shit, that's this weird kid and he

1522
01:27:10,479 --> 01:27:15,760
Speaker 8: never says anything, And so here's the real to reel.

1523
01:27:16,439 --> 01:27:19,120
Speaker 8: Here's the weird kid, maybe four feet back from the

1524
01:27:19,200 --> 01:27:23,040
Speaker 8: real to reel I'm back, like at Maurice's desk, so

1525
01:27:23,120 --> 01:27:25,920
Speaker 8: I'm maybe eight feet behind him, and I couldn't even

1526
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:28,680
Speaker 8: concentrate on the record. I just kept looking at the

1527
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:31,240
Speaker 8: guy going, fuck you, you know, what are you doing?

1528
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:36,200
Speaker 4: To myself? Like, what are you doing in here? My moment?

1529
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:39,519
Speaker 4: And then four months later, I Want to be your

1530
01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:42,840
Speaker 4: lover came out and I went, oh, my fucking god,

1531
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:46,040
Speaker 4: it's Prince. Was there no small talker or anything? Nothing?

1532
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:48,080
Speaker 4: Not a word.

1533
01:27:48,680 --> 01:27:50,360
Speaker 2: Did you'll ever circle back to each other?

1534
01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:53,080
Speaker 4: Never? No, not a word.

1535
01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:56,559
Speaker 8: But you know, there's my Prince story. I'm really good

1536
01:27:56,600 --> 01:27:59,679
Speaker 8: friends with Wendy though still.

1537
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:03,840
Speaker 4: But the friends of the show, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1538
01:28:05,800 --> 01:28:08,240
Speaker 4: you know we there's so much that we missed.

1539
01:28:09,160 --> 01:28:12,400
Speaker 1: I actually wanted to know how fast this is gonna

1540
01:28:12,400 --> 01:28:15,320
Speaker 1: be the most obscure music question I asked of the day,

1541
01:28:17,479 --> 01:28:19,880
Speaker 1: how fast did it take you to write shopping for

1542
01:28:20,040 --> 01:28:20,719
Speaker 1: me to see?

1543
01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:21,679
Speaker 3: Wow?

1544
01:28:22,120 --> 01:28:25,400
Speaker 4: You are pulling them out? Oh wait, you think you're

1545
01:28:25,520 --> 01:28:30,200
Speaker 4: just on the show because they told you like he

1546
01:28:30,280 --> 01:28:33,840
Speaker 4: wanted history. I just didn't know it was you.

1547
01:28:34,280 --> 01:28:37,000
Speaker 8: Well, I didn't write it as fast as The fastest

1548
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:38,800
Speaker 8: song I ever wrote was Neutron Dance.

1549
01:28:39,200 --> 01:28:40,720
Speaker 4: That was the fastest.

1550
01:28:42,280 --> 01:28:45,080
Speaker 6: That was fifty eight minutes, twenty eight for lyrics and

1551
01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:47,200
Speaker 6: thirty two or whatever.

1552
01:28:47,240 --> 01:28:49,519
Speaker 2: It is, no weed, How do you remember that?

1553
01:28:50,479 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 8: Because I did not want to write the song that

1554
01:28:55,280 --> 01:28:57,439
Speaker 8: was real. That was the first time I was in

1555
01:28:58,120 --> 01:29:00,120
Speaker 8: I had so many hits in a row and I

1556
01:29:00,200 --> 01:29:02,439
Speaker 8: had nothing, and it was at a point where I

1557
01:29:02,520 --> 01:29:06,920
Speaker 8: was miserable writing and really feeling like I had ruined

1558
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:07,719
Speaker 8: my career.

1559
01:29:09,800 --> 01:29:13,160
Speaker 6: And uh, there was should I tell you the Neutron Dancer?

1560
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:18,559
Speaker 4: Okay, that there was a movie called Streets of.

1561
01:29:18,640 --> 01:29:20,639
Speaker 2: Fire, yes, Diane Lane.

1562
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:23,320
Speaker 8: But all they told me about this movie was that

1563
01:29:23,439 --> 01:29:26,280
Speaker 8: it was a handsome guy, cute girl and a black

1564
01:29:26,439 --> 01:29:28,920
Speaker 8: doop band and they're out of town. They're only ones

1565
01:29:28,960 --> 01:29:32,200
Speaker 8: to escape a nuclear holocaust. That's all they told at.

1566
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:34,920
Speaker 4: I believe Streets of Fire was the first PG thirteen

1567
01:29:36,439 --> 01:29:40,519
Speaker 4: rated film. Yeah, this is where I can Dan Hartman.

1568
01:29:42,720 --> 01:29:46,880
Speaker 8: Yeah, well so this was that was the spot that

1569
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:50,320
Speaker 8: it was written for. And it was Joel Silver's first.

1570
01:29:50,240 --> 01:29:52,759
Speaker 4: Movie too, okay as a director, right, yeah.

1571
01:29:52,880 --> 01:29:57,840
Speaker 8: As a producer, as a producer and anyway, so they

1572
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:00,280
Speaker 8: said write this song. I didn't have any common evidence

1573
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:04,240
Speaker 8: that I could write good anymore. My publisher put me

1574
01:30:04,360 --> 01:30:07,920
Speaker 8: with someone who had never written a song before. But

1575
01:30:08,080 --> 01:30:10,639
Speaker 8: they signed him because his brother had the biggest record

1576
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:15,160
Speaker 8: of the year of the year before, which was Maniac. Yes, yes,

1577
01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:20,920
Speaker 8: but because he was Michael Simbello's little brother. So and

1578
01:30:21,040 --> 01:30:23,400
Speaker 8: I only found out that he had never written before

1579
01:30:23,560 --> 01:30:25,679
Speaker 8: like five minutes before he was coming over.

1580
01:30:25,920 --> 01:30:30,040
Speaker 4: And so when I, well, you're telling me that Danny

1581
01:30:30,080 --> 01:30:31,960
Speaker 4: Simbelo's entry into music, he's.

1582
01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:33,719
Speaker 1: Written a lot of shit that that was his first

1583
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:36,080
Speaker 1: song was to dance. But you're saying to me that,

1584
01:30:36,360 --> 01:30:38,760
Speaker 1: like it was nepotism that got him in the door.

1585
01:30:38,960 --> 01:30:41,760
Speaker 6: Absolutely, he would have been the first to tell you

1586
01:30:41,880 --> 01:30:42,280
Speaker 6: that too.

1587
01:30:42,560 --> 01:30:45,599
Speaker 4: Yeah. Really, yeah, because his name just pops up everywhere

1588
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:46,559
Speaker 4: the addition stuff.

1589
01:30:46,920 --> 01:30:51,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, Michael like one of my favorite collaborators ever, so

1590
01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:52,400
Speaker 8: is narda.

1591
01:30:52,760 --> 01:30:57,200
Speaker 4: But but Danny really unbelievable. It was just a nepotism move. Yes,

1592
01:30:57,360 --> 01:30:58,000
Speaker 4: that's crazy.

1593
01:30:58,160 --> 01:31:00,880
Speaker 8: And he had been in Stevie Wonders maybe seventeen at

1594
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:03,320
Speaker 8: the time, and he had been in Stevie's band since

1595
01:31:03,360 --> 01:31:07,680
Speaker 8: he was fifteen. So the only thing I knew was

1596
01:31:07,720 --> 01:31:10,240
Speaker 8: that he could play okay, which was great for me

1597
01:31:10,400 --> 01:31:15,240
Speaker 8: because I can't play. So I put a timer on

1598
01:31:15,760 --> 01:31:17,400
Speaker 8: when he came over, because I said, I only have

1599
01:31:17,479 --> 01:31:20,160
Speaker 8: an hour, and I thought, and he came over and

1600
01:31:20,240 --> 01:31:22,760
Speaker 8: he had like he had like a little bag lunch

1601
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:26,919
Speaker 8: and he had a hockey uniform on and he was sweating.

1602
01:31:27,000 --> 01:31:29,640
Speaker 6: It was just like the worst thing that could have

1603
01:31:29,800 --> 01:31:30,400
Speaker 6: happened to me.

1604
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:34,479
Speaker 8: And uh and I knew we had to write for

1605
01:31:34,560 --> 01:31:36,479
Speaker 8: a doo wop band, so I just said to him,

1606
01:31:36,520 --> 01:31:39,520
Speaker 8: play the tritest fifties.

1607
01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:40,680
Speaker 4: Bass line that you could think of.

1608
01:31:41,080 --> 01:31:44,080
Speaker 8: And he immediately, you know, boom boom boom boom boom,

1609
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:46,280
Speaker 8: bom bomb ba ba ba ba ba bum bum bum

1610
01:31:46,400 --> 01:31:50,840
Speaker 8: bum bomb. And I can sing a melody to anything.

1611
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:54,120
Speaker 8: Start tapping those water bottles together. You'll have a song

1612
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:59,080
Speaker 8: in thirty seconds. So uh we So I know the

1613
01:31:59,200 --> 01:32:02,679
Speaker 8: music was done in twenty eight and then we started

1614
01:32:02,760 --> 01:32:06,200
Speaker 8: on the lyric and I knew it had to have

1615
01:32:06,479 --> 01:32:11,520
Speaker 8: something to do with you know, it was a nuclear holocaust,

1616
01:32:11,680 --> 01:32:15,439
Speaker 8: so you know something. There's got to be like burning

1617
01:32:15,600 --> 01:32:17,879
Speaker 8: in there or exploding, you know something.

1618
01:32:18,600 --> 01:32:22,040
Speaker 1: And I let you to tell you the story because

1619
01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:24,519
Speaker 1: I'm like, what does this have to do with Beverly Hills,

1620
01:32:24,560 --> 01:32:28,320
Speaker 1: cop like, why, well, yeah, yeah, no, I get it.

1621
01:32:28,479 --> 01:32:32,479
Speaker 8: No, So we though the original title of Neutron Dance

1622
01:32:32,960 --> 01:32:43,360
Speaker 8: was Barbecue. I'm just burning on the barbacue. That was original,

1623
01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:46,519
Speaker 8: So I was, you know, this was a song we

1624
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:49,200
Speaker 8: were writing. We weren't writing for a particular artist, so

1625
01:32:49,600 --> 01:32:54,880
Speaker 8: I it was very autobiographical because I just I felt like,

1626
01:32:55,040 --> 01:32:57,840
Speaker 8: you know, my career is over. What's happening in my life,

1627
01:32:57,920 --> 01:33:00,160
Speaker 8: and I knew I had to make a change. If

1628
01:33:00,160 --> 01:33:02,080
Speaker 8: I don't get off my ass and do something, it's

1629
01:33:02,160 --> 01:33:05,800
Speaker 8: all over. So and that's you know that lyric I

1630
01:33:05,840 --> 01:33:09,080
Speaker 8: don't want to stole and all that stuff. Well, there's

1631
01:33:09,200 --> 01:33:14,439
Speaker 8: something very exact about that line we wrote the first verse.

1632
01:33:14,479 --> 01:33:16,320
Speaker 8: I don't want to take it anymore. I'll just stay here,

1633
01:33:16,400 --> 01:33:18,240
Speaker 8: lock behind the door, just no time to stop it.

1634
01:33:18,280 --> 01:33:19,519
Speaker 8: Get away works hard to make it.

1635
01:33:19,560 --> 01:33:19,960
Speaker 6: Every day.

1636
01:33:20,400 --> 01:33:22,920
Speaker 8: I look out of my window and there are two

1637
01:33:23,040 --> 01:33:26,840
Speaker 8: kids picking the lock on my nineteen sixty two pink corvetor.

1638
01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:30,759
Speaker 6: So I race out of the house and I'm thinking,

1639
01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:32,400
Speaker 6: I got to get this kid out of here.

1640
01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:34,080
Speaker 4: This song is like a piece of shit.

1641
01:33:34,680 --> 01:33:37,959
Speaker 8: So I'm running out of the house into my driveway

1642
01:33:38,040 --> 01:33:40,600
Speaker 8: to chase the kids away, and I yelled back the.

1643
01:33:40,680 --> 01:33:44,799
Speaker 6: Line, someone stole my brand new Chevrolet, which.

1644
01:33:44,600 --> 01:33:46,439
Speaker 4: Is how how that happened.

1645
01:33:47,479 --> 01:33:50,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they didn't steal it.

1646
01:33:50,560 --> 01:33:52,920
Speaker 8: You caught them, No, I caught it, and they were kids,

1647
01:33:53,040 --> 01:33:55,479
Speaker 8: so they ran away as soon as I got out there.

1648
01:33:55,880 --> 01:33:57,760
Speaker 8: And then by the time I was back because I'm

1649
01:33:57,880 --> 01:34:00,559
Speaker 8: just racing, It's like, why am I putting I'm into

1650
01:34:00,640 --> 01:34:01,160
Speaker 8: this song?

1651
01:34:01,800 --> 01:34:04,080
Speaker 4: My career is over? Who's this kid?

1652
01:34:04,920 --> 01:34:06,400
Speaker 8: So then I had in the rent is due. I

1653
01:34:06,479 --> 01:34:09,879
Speaker 8: got no place to stay, and so that song was finished.

1654
01:34:09,880 --> 01:34:11,920
Speaker 8: He was out of the house in fifty eight minutes.

1655
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:17,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, and handed it in. They rejected it, you.

1656
01:34:17,040 --> 01:34:19,160
Speaker 8: Know from the movie, which to me it was like

1657
01:34:19,280 --> 01:34:21,760
Speaker 8: this piece of shit song written in under an hour,

1658
01:34:22,479 --> 01:34:27,120
Speaker 8: so didn't surprise me. But my publisher really liked the song,

1659
01:34:27,920 --> 01:34:31,000
Speaker 8: got it to the Pointers. Pointers cut it, but it

1660
01:34:31,120 --> 01:34:33,880
Speaker 8: was they were at their height. They had already chosen

1661
01:34:34,040 --> 01:34:37,080
Speaker 8: five singles off this next album that was coming out.

1662
01:34:37,439 --> 01:34:38,639
Speaker 4: How'd you get past Richard Perry?

1663
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:43,439
Speaker 8: I had nothing to do with that at that he

1664
01:34:43,560 --> 01:34:46,840
Speaker 8: was like, yeah, that was strict Like, yeah, that was

1665
01:34:46,920 --> 01:34:53,160
Speaker 8: strictly my My publisher did that. And anyway, Pointers cut it,

1666
01:34:53,360 --> 01:34:58,519
Speaker 8: and then I get a package in the mail that

1667
01:34:58,680 --> 01:35:01,240
Speaker 8: had a cassette and a letter from Jerry Bruckheimer.

1668
01:35:01,720 --> 01:35:05,519
Speaker 6: He's doing his second movie. They you know, need a

1669
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:09,160
Speaker 6: song that sounds like the song that's on the cassette

1670
01:35:09,200 --> 01:35:10,439
Speaker 6: and it's Neutron Dance.

1671
01:35:10,520 --> 01:35:12,000
Speaker 2: Did he know you from Detroit?

1672
01:35:12,040 --> 01:35:12,439
Speaker 4: And he know?

1673
01:35:12,800 --> 01:35:16,479
Speaker 8: No? Okay no, But they certainly had to have known

1674
01:35:16,520 --> 01:35:18,880
Speaker 8: I was the writer of Neutron Dance and they're sending

1675
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:22,040
Speaker 8: me this thing to copy, which they I knew they

1676
01:35:22,080 --> 01:35:24,920
Speaker 8: sent to every writer in LA because all my friends

1677
01:35:25,040 --> 01:35:27,360
Speaker 8: were calling me up and everyone knew, Oh it's Eddie

1678
01:35:27,439 --> 01:35:30,200
Speaker 8: Murphy that you know this is going to be hot. Yes,

1679
01:35:30,280 --> 01:35:32,679
Speaker 8: we're going to write a sound alike to Neutron Dance.

1680
01:35:32,720 --> 01:35:35,160
Speaker 4: So is that the process for most soundtracks, at least

1681
01:35:35,160 --> 01:35:38,040
Speaker 4: for beck then? Back then that sounds like this.

1682
01:35:38,280 --> 01:35:40,879
Speaker 8: Yeah, they put the temp music in, So this explains

1683
01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:45,720
Speaker 8: the yes, absolutely, So they sent him I want a

1684
01:35:45,800 --> 01:35:46,320
Speaker 8: new drug?

1685
01:35:46,720 --> 01:35:47,840
Speaker 4: Right? Yeah? I see.

1686
01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:51,920
Speaker 8: And anyway, so I got so sick of my friends

1687
01:35:52,040 --> 01:35:55,120
Speaker 8: telling me that they've ripped me off that I called

1688
01:35:55,280 --> 01:35:59,439
Speaker 8: Danny up and said come over, And so we stripped

1689
01:35:59,479 --> 01:36:03,840
Speaker 8: a Neutron Dance demo down to the drums, used all

1690
01:36:03,920 --> 01:36:10,479
Speaker 8: the same sounds, wrote an exact parallel lyric, and handed

1691
01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:17,000
Speaker 8: that song in Rejected for Beverly Hills Cop and three

1692
01:36:17,040 --> 01:36:21,840
Speaker 8: weeks before the movie came out, I found out that

1693
01:36:21,920 --> 01:36:26,120
Speaker 8: Jerry Bruckheimer had gone into his garbage can looking for

1694
01:36:26,200 --> 01:36:30,080
Speaker 8: a cassette to tape over put played the first few

1695
01:36:30,240 --> 01:36:34,080
Speaker 8: seconds of this song that he pulled out of the garbage.

1696
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:35,080
Speaker 6: And it was Stirred Up.

1697
01:36:36,040 --> 01:36:37,799
Speaker 4: So stir it Up and Neutron.

1698
01:36:38,240 --> 01:36:43,400
Speaker 8: Yes, ye, listen to the lyric of stir it Up

1699
01:36:43,960 --> 01:36:45,960
Speaker 8: and listen to the lyric of Neutron dance.

1700
01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:48,719
Speaker 6: And they had they are the exact same song.

1701
01:36:49,479 --> 01:36:51,000
Speaker 4: I'm doing something I haven't done it alone.

1702
01:36:55,360 --> 01:36:57,920
Speaker 2: A story, Yes, it's yo.

1703
01:36:58,280 --> 01:37:00,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's how that, that's how those two.

1704
01:37:00,800 --> 01:37:02,960
Speaker 1: That's a crazy story I've heard since the Human Nature

1705
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:04,680
Speaker 1: discovery for Quincy Jones.

1706
01:37:05,600 --> 01:37:06,799
Speaker 6: From Steve Picaro.

1707
01:37:07,240 --> 01:37:10,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, yeah, the cassette was on auto what do

1708
01:37:10,840 --> 01:37:13,000
Speaker 1: you call it when it goes to SIDEB automatically?

1709
01:37:13,240 --> 01:37:16,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, whatever, It was on side A. Yeah, not from Steve,

1710
01:37:16,720 --> 01:37:18,560
Speaker 4: but from the other guys in the group. Yeah, and

1711
01:37:18,640 --> 01:37:23,680
Speaker 4: they were recording over his cassette and suddenly, yeah, like.

1712
01:37:26,040 --> 01:37:30,040
Speaker 8: From me and Steve wrote a song. Michael Jackson wanted

1713
01:37:30,760 --> 01:37:36,320
Speaker 8: a song like Human Nature, and we wrote a song.

1714
01:37:36,400 --> 01:37:40,439
Speaker 8: It was my first time working with him, and Steve

1715
01:37:40,640 --> 01:37:44,360
Speaker 8: was going to meet him in Las Vegas or something,

1716
01:37:44,760 --> 01:37:50,719
Speaker 8: and then Michael Jackson died. So there is a song

1717
01:37:50,960 --> 01:37:55,000
Speaker 8: on the new latest Toto album called The Little Things

1718
01:37:55,320 --> 01:37:58,759
Speaker 8: that Steve actually sings the lead on that was supposed

1719
01:37:58,760 --> 01:38:01,000
Speaker 8: to be the Human Natures Sound Alike that went to

1720
01:38:01,120 --> 01:38:01,880
Speaker 8: Michael Jackson.

1721
01:38:01,920 --> 01:38:03,880
Speaker 2: I gotta make a note said with the name of

1722
01:38:03,920 --> 01:38:04,519
Speaker 2: this again.

1723
01:38:06,960 --> 01:38:11,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, so, uh, lots of stories like that.

1724
01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:13,599
Speaker 4: Where are we at right now?

1725
01:38:13,960 --> 01:38:17,280
Speaker 3: Like, I mean, we passed, but we didn't even get

1726
01:38:17,280 --> 01:38:19,559
Speaker 3: to the Color Purple and let's get to the parties

1727
01:38:19,600 --> 01:38:21,120
Speaker 3: and the Jennifer Lewis best eason.

1728
01:38:21,479 --> 01:38:25,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, well she's one of my best friends and we

1729
01:38:25,400 --> 01:38:26,280
Speaker 6: need to show him.

1730
01:38:26,880 --> 01:38:32,280
Speaker 8: Just from last week her doing leading a little sing

1731
01:38:32,360 --> 01:38:35,840
Speaker 8: along with her book Chanting in order to sell the

1732
01:38:35,960 --> 01:38:36,840
Speaker 8: book at.

1733
01:38:36,800 --> 01:38:40,560
Speaker 3: Her house Color Purple with a full like choreography, but

1734
01:38:41,240 --> 01:38:42,639
Speaker 3: in the back doing a choreography too.

1735
01:38:42,760 --> 01:38:44,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's a minute a minute.

1736
01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:50,800
Speaker 8: What happens if Jennifer Lewis cannot come when I throw

1737
01:38:50,840 --> 01:38:51,240
Speaker 8: a party?

1738
01:38:51,360 --> 01:38:52,240
Speaker 4: I changed the day?

1739
01:38:52,400 --> 01:38:55,360
Speaker 8: What I changed the day? Because she ends up hosting

1740
01:38:55,439 --> 01:38:56,920
Speaker 8: the parties with me all the time.

1741
01:38:57,160 --> 01:39:03,599
Speaker 1: Jennifer is, Uh, she's she's knowingly responsible for the success

1742
01:39:03,640 --> 01:39:07,800
Speaker 1: I'm having with my current book right now. I heard

1743
01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:11,200
Speaker 1: usually right before, I didn't want to do an audiobook.

1744
01:39:11,280 --> 01:39:13,240
Speaker 1: This is like my fourth book, and I'd like try

1745
01:39:13,320 --> 01:39:18,120
Speaker 1: to uh stave off the publisher for making me do

1746
01:39:18,160 --> 01:39:18,479
Speaker 1: an audio.

1747
01:39:18,680 --> 01:39:18,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1748
01:39:18,920 --> 01:39:21,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, So once I gave in, then I was like,

1749
01:39:21,200 --> 01:39:22,800
Speaker 1: all right, let me do some research because what I

1750
01:39:23,240 --> 01:39:26,040
Speaker 1: don't want to bore people with my voice. And someone

1751
01:39:26,120 --> 01:39:28,840
Speaker 1: recommended to me listen to how she tells the story

1752
01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:32,840
Speaker 1: on her audiobook, and I listened to her.

1753
01:39:33,160 --> 01:39:37,200
Speaker 4: You gotta listen to get the audiobook of Jennifer Lewis's

1754
01:39:37,720 --> 01:39:41,000
Speaker 4: and Another Mother Black.

1755
01:39:41,760 --> 01:39:45,960
Speaker 1: She's the most compelling storyteller, Like she uses her voice inflections.

1756
01:39:46,520 --> 01:39:49,120
Speaker 1: So that's the reason why I decided, like, yo, well,

1757
01:39:49,200 --> 01:39:51,759
Speaker 1: I don't have the gift of like then.

1758
01:39:52,200 --> 01:39:57,519
Speaker 4: I told oh, he's gonna yeah, Like I didn't have that,

1759
01:39:57,680 --> 01:39:59,920
Speaker 4: So I figured, like, what's my version of Jennifer Lewis. Oh,

1760
01:40:00,240 --> 01:40:01,000
Speaker 4: I'll do skits.

1761
01:40:01,280 --> 01:40:04,040
Speaker 2: So like I put, oh, you reacted to actual Well.

1762
01:40:03,960 --> 01:40:06,320
Speaker 4: I have like actors and stuff like people like rereading

1763
01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:09,280
Speaker 4: and Steve Is. Who are you Steve, I'm Paul McCartney. Yeah,

1764
01:40:09,320 --> 01:40:13,439
Speaker 4: Steve is Barbara so like, I owe that to Jennifer

1765
01:40:13,520 --> 01:40:15,160
Speaker 4: Luis's face. He's so proud.

1766
01:40:15,360 --> 01:40:18,960
Speaker 8: But you know, Jennifer Lewis has a similar type story

1767
01:40:19,160 --> 01:40:22,560
Speaker 8: of being inspired by someone in order to get a

1768
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:25,240
Speaker 8: movie part that she got when she went up for

1769
01:40:26,160 --> 01:40:29,720
Speaker 8: what's the Disney movie that she's in? Mister No No,

1770
01:40:30,160 --> 01:40:33,640
Speaker 8: And the character is Mama Oda. It's one of the

1771
01:40:33,720 --> 01:40:39,040
Speaker 8: Disney movies like yes, okay six seven years ago.

1772
01:40:40,400 --> 01:40:41,439
Speaker 2: She's been in a lot of shoots.

1773
01:40:41,560 --> 01:40:45,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, And she didn't know what voice to use for

1774
01:40:45,240 --> 01:40:48,280
Speaker 4: the character. And she owns a lot of my.

1775
01:40:48,640 --> 01:40:52,519
Speaker 2: Art that I've done and beautiful by the way.

1776
01:40:52,680 --> 01:40:53,040
Speaker 4: Don't you.

1777
01:40:53,840 --> 01:40:57,479
Speaker 8: In nineteen ninety nine, I took on an alter ego

1778
01:40:57,640 --> 01:41:02,679
Speaker 8: named Bubbles, the artist who I manage, and Jennifer started

1779
01:41:02,720 --> 01:41:04,160
Speaker 8: buying up bubbles stuff.

1780
01:41:04,280 --> 01:41:06,759
Speaker 6: Ru Paul and Lily Tomlin own the most.

1781
01:41:06,920 --> 01:41:08,479
Speaker 4: They battle each other.

1782
01:41:08,680 --> 01:41:10,360
Speaker 2: Are you saying? Have they ever been in the rooms?

1783
01:41:10,400 --> 01:41:11,599
Speaker 2: All these people been in the room.

1784
01:41:13,520 --> 01:41:14,120
Speaker 4: All together?

1785
01:41:14,320 --> 01:41:15,800
Speaker 2: Oh my god, all die.

1786
01:41:18,120 --> 01:41:21,760
Speaker 8: No, it wasn't cars. It was like the Princess, Prince,

1787
01:41:22,520 --> 01:41:28,040
Speaker 8: Princess and the Princess. Okay, that's it. So anyway, So

1788
01:41:28,240 --> 01:41:31,080
Speaker 8: one of the paintings of mine that she owns by

1789
01:41:31,200 --> 01:41:34,840
Speaker 8: Bubbles the artist who I manage but is actually me.

1790
01:41:36,560 --> 01:41:38,479
Speaker 4: Is a thing of moms maybly.

1791
01:41:39,320 --> 01:41:43,720
Speaker 8: So Jennifer goes to the audition and she has no

1792
01:41:44,040 --> 01:41:47,880
Speaker 8: idea what to do, what voice to do, and she

1793
01:41:48,040 --> 01:41:51,400
Speaker 8: said she flashed on the painting of Moms. And so

1794
01:41:51,479 --> 01:41:56,000
Speaker 8: if you listen to her character in that movie, it

1795
01:41:56,160 --> 01:41:57,360
Speaker 8: is Mom's maybe.

1796
01:41:57,439 --> 01:42:00,360
Speaker 3: She goes, yeah, I used to listen to tapes of

1797
01:42:00,400 --> 01:42:02,600
Speaker 3: moms maybe my dad driving a school.

1798
01:42:02,400 --> 01:42:05,360
Speaker 2: Like incredible, incredible, And you painted her?

1799
01:42:05,840 --> 01:42:09,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, I loved moms. Man, Well, bubbles painted her.

1800
01:42:09,280 --> 01:42:09,759
Speaker 2: I mean bubbles.

1801
01:42:10,040 --> 01:42:18,680
Speaker 4: I just managed, right, Okay, it would it would actually uh,

1802
01:42:18,800 --> 01:42:24,160
Speaker 4: I'd be remiss if I didn't mention obviously. Well, okay,

1803
01:42:24,880 --> 01:42:27,439
Speaker 4: I'm certain that you're going to say, yeah, I wrote

1804
01:42:27,479 --> 01:42:30,040
Speaker 4: it in five minutes, didn't mean anything to me, just

1805
01:42:30,439 --> 01:42:33,639
Speaker 4: and it just became one of the biggest theme songs.

1806
01:42:34,479 --> 01:42:37,800
Speaker 4: When did you actually write remembrance I'll be there for you.

1807
01:42:38,160 --> 01:42:41,919
Speaker 6: Re brands, brands, I'm sorry that was written in nineteen

1808
01:42:42,080 --> 01:42:42,760
Speaker 6: ninety four.

1809
01:42:43,120 --> 01:42:46,640
Speaker 8: I did not really didn't want to be a songwriter

1810
01:42:46,800 --> 01:42:50,960
Speaker 8: anymore because I had gotten onto the internet in nineteen

1811
01:42:51,040 --> 01:42:55,360
Speaker 8: ninety one, came up with a concept for social Yeah yeah,

1812
01:42:55,439 --> 01:43:00,400
Speaker 8: social network In nineteen ninety two, my CEO became Mark

1813
01:43:00,479 --> 01:43:04,120
Speaker 8: Cuban and no one understood.

1814
01:43:04,360 --> 01:43:06,400
Speaker 1: So explain the concept because back then it was the

1815
01:43:06,479 --> 01:43:07,679
Speaker 1: super Information Highway.

1816
01:43:07,760 --> 01:43:08,200
Speaker 4: Lest Yeah.

1817
01:43:08,960 --> 01:43:11,240
Speaker 8: I wanted to take anything that could be done in

1818
01:43:11,360 --> 01:43:13,920
Speaker 8: an online environment, which was not a lot, and there

1819
01:43:14,000 --> 01:43:16,519
Speaker 8: was maybe one of each of these things, but you

1820
01:43:16,600 --> 01:43:20,559
Speaker 8: could sell things, you could play games, you could do email,

1821
01:43:22,720 --> 01:43:24,960
Speaker 8: you know, it was very limited stuff. I wanted to

1822
01:43:25,040 --> 01:43:29,479
Speaker 8: take everything, combine it together in one place, which wasn't done.

1823
01:43:29,560 --> 01:43:32,439
Speaker 4: Then if you shopped for the one car.

1824
01:43:32,479 --> 01:43:35,120
Speaker 8: That maybe was online, you'd have to take ten minutes,

1825
01:43:35,640 --> 01:43:38,160
Speaker 8: log off, then go to where you would you know,

1826
01:43:38,280 --> 01:43:40,639
Speaker 8: play a game. You were always in this black hole

1827
01:43:41,320 --> 01:43:45,160
Speaker 8: of cyberspace. So I wanted to combine everything. I'm the

1828
01:43:45,240 --> 01:43:49,439
Speaker 8: first one ever that said the Internet is a social place,

1829
01:43:50,040 --> 01:43:53,439
Speaker 8: that this is about people connecting to each other. So

1830
01:43:53,560 --> 01:43:56,640
Speaker 8: there could be collaborations and there could be friendships, and

1831
01:43:56,720 --> 01:43:59,559
Speaker 8: there could be all this kind of stuff. And at

1832
01:43:59,600 --> 01:44:02,120
Speaker 8: the same time, you could sell them cars, and they

1833
01:44:02,200 --> 01:44:05,800
Speaker 8: could collaborate with each other, and they could get information,

1834
01:44:06,000 --> 01:44:07,040
Speaker 8: they could do anything.

1835
01:44:07,560 --> 01:44:08,600
Speaker 4: And we're going to create this.

1836
01:44:08,760 --> 01:44:13,360
Speaker 8: Fictional community inhabited by these fictional characters who are going

1837
01:44:13,439 --> 01:44:18,040
Speaker 8: to be the guides into cyberspace for people who in

1838
01:44:18,160 --> 01:44:22,320
Speaker 8: nineteen ninety two did not understand what cyberspace was. And

1839
01:44:22,400 --> 01:44:25,600
Speaker 8: I prototyped it throughout the nineties, but we were just

1840
01:44:25,680 --> 01:44:28,719
Speaker 8: too early. No one knew what we were talking.

1841
01:44:28,600 --> 01:44:33,120
Speaker 3: As Mark Zuckerberg, No, we were likely.

1842
01:44:33,479 --> 01:44:36,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, when you discovered Friendster.

1843
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:41,280
Speaker 8: And and well that I had a ton of resentment

1844
01:44:41,439 --> 01:44:44,760
Speaker 8: that took me forever to get over because all those

1845
01:44:44,920 --> 01:44:48,879
Speaker 8: they ignored the issues that we couldn't solve and therefore

1846
01:44:49,000 --> 01:44:49,560
Speaker 8: didn't do it.

1847
01:44:50,280 --> 01:44:53,760
Speaker 6: What happens to copyrights? What about privacy?

1848
01:44:54,280 --> 01:44:57,720
Speaker 8: And we just didn't know the answer to it, you know,

1849
01:44:58,000 --> 01:45:02,640
Speaker 8: still damn But so I was interested in that, and

1850
01:45:02,840 --> 01:45:05,760
Speaker 8: I still had a publishing deal to you know, a

1851
01:45:05,880 --> 01:45:09,479
Speaker 8: quota to fulfill, and quotas had never been I'd never

1852
01:45:09,600 --> 01:45:11,360
Speaker 8: had one before, but it never would have been a

1853
01:45:11,439 --> 01:45:14,760
Speaker 8: problem in the old days. But now I'm interested in

1854
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:20,240
Speaker 8: something that's nonlinear, that's totally interactive, and I'm not interested

1855
01:45:20,280 --> 01:45:22,360
Speaker 8: in a three minute song that goes from here to

1856
01:45:22,439 --> 01:45:24,920
Speaker 8: here and the artist is the only one that has

1857
01:45:24,960 --> 01:45:27,719
Speaker 8: to say in it. I'm interested in what is music

1858
01:45:27,840 --> 01:45:31,160
Speaker 8: now that anyone from anywhere can impact what it is

1859
01:45:31,280 --> 01:45:35,360
Speaker 8: you're creating. So every time I thought I'd written enough songs,

1860
01:45:35,479 --> 01:45:38,639
Speaker 8: the publisher would say, no, you know you haven't. Finally

1861
01:45:38,680 --> 01:45:42,200
Speaker 8: got down to iota seventh of a song and they said,

1862
01:45:42,240 --> 01:45:43,880
Speaker 8: there's this TV show coming out.

1863
01:45:44,040 --> 01:45:46,080
Speaker 6: No one thinks it's going to be a hit. Write

1864
01:45:46,120 --> 01:45:47,280
Speaker 6: this year out of your deal.

1865
01:45:48,080 --> 01:45:51,040
Speaker 4: So shit.

1866
01:45:51,640 --> 01:45:55,840
Speaker 8: So the music Michael Skloff had written already, he was

1867
01:45:55,960 --> 01:45:59,880
Speaker 8: married to one of the producers, right, and gave me

1868
01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:03,680
Speaker 8: the song. I thought, this is the whitest thing I

1869
01:46:03,760 --> 01:46:06,479
Speaker 8: have ever heard in my life. It's going to ruin

1870
01:46:06,600 --> 01:46:09,240
Speaker 8: my career. But everyone said, don't worry, because who's going

1871
01:46:09,320 --> 01:46:09,680
Speaker 8: to hear this?

1872
01:46:09,880 --> 01:46:10,840
Speaker 6: No one's ever gonna hear it.

1873
01:46:10,960 --> 01:46:15,880
Speaker 8: Yeah, And so I handed it in and it blew

1874
01:46:16,160 --> 01:46:20,920
Speaker 8: up instantly, And so it was a forty five second

1875
01:46:21,720 --> 01:46:25,519
Speaker 8: thing that a disc jockey in Nashville made a cassette

1876
01:46:25,840 --> 01:46:29,200
Speaker 8: of and played it back to back for forty five minutes.

1877
01:46:29,520 --> 01:46:33,040
Speaker 8: Rembrands got it because they were the only band signed

1878
01:46:33,040 --> 01:46:35,120
Speaker 8: to Warner Brothers who were.

1879
01:46:35,080 --> 01:46:37,880
Speaker 6: In LA at that time that weren't on tour.

1880
01:46:38,520 --> 01:46:42,320
Speaker 8: So no one, yeah, no one associated with this song

1881
01:46:42,520 --> 01:46:47,759
Speaker 8: really wanted anything to do with it. And it became

1882
01:46:47,880 --> 01:46:49,439
Speaker 8: the biggest airplay record in.

1883
01:46:49,520 --> 01:46:53,960
Speaker 6: Nineteen ninety four. It was unbelievable. So for me, that

1884
01:46:54,160 --> 01:46:56,320
Speaker 6: was the official end of my publishing deal.

1885
01:46:56,439 --> 01:46:59,439
Speaker 8: So it was perceived that I'm going out on a

1886
01:46:59,560 --> 01:47:03,360
Speaker 8: high note, when in fact I was like barely crawling,

1887
01:47:04,000 --> 01:47:08,200
Speaker 8: you know, yeah, because I wanted to do this cyberspace.

1888
01:47:07,600 --> 01:47:09,599
Speaker 6: Thing and no one knew what I was talking about.

1889
01:47:10,400 --> 01:47:14,439
Speaker 4: So so that was just whatever.

1890
01:47:14,640 --> 01:47:16,160
Speaker 6: It was a gift, total gift.

1891
01:47:16,200 --> 01:47:20,479
Speaker 4: Okay. So in the ending, can you confirm or not

1892
01:47:20,600 --> 01:47:24,960
Speaker 4: confirmed for me that one song can change your life,

1893
01:47:25,600 --> 01:47:29,719
Speaker 4: because usually movies, movies and TV gives you this impression

1894
01:47:29,840 --> 01:47:32,960
Speaker 4: like that one hit single you could just live off that.

1895
01:47:33,240 --> 01:47:36,320
Speaker 4: Oh that's not true. Yeah, that's not true at all.

1896
01:47:37,439 --> 01:47:44,760
Speaker 1: It's like if if you only wrote September, well, if

1897
01:47:44,800 --> 01:47:48,360
Speaker 1: I had to only the modest life, yeah, if I yes,

1898
01:47:48,800 --> 01:47:51,280
Speaker 1: if I had only written simptem, I do live a

1899
01:47:51,400 --> 01:47:55,439
Speaker 1: modest life because I'm a self financed artist.

1900
01:47:56,000 --> 01:47:58,080
Speaker 6: So any of these other ideas, I get.

1901
01:47:58,320 --> 01:48:01,799
Speaker 8: It's that song and a few others that are carrying

1902
01:48:01,920 --> 01:48:06,680
Speaker 8: the whole thing, you know along. But yeah, I mean,

1903
01:48:06,760 --> 01:48:08,960
Speaker 8: I think if you wrote it by yourself, if you

1904
01:48:09,080 --> 01:48:12,479
Speaker 8: produced it, if you sang it, you know, may and

1905
01:48:12,600 --> 01:48:17,160
Speaker 8: it was a gigantic kit that remained a classic. You

1906
01:48:17,320 --> 01:48:22,240
Speaker 8: could probably live a comfortable life, but those things happening

1907
01:48:22,320 --> 01:48:24,240
Speaker 8: at the same time are so rare.

1908
01:48:25,320 --> 01:48:31,040
Speaker 4: Uh that yeah, Michael Jackson, I know that. Yeah, No,

1909
01:48:31,200 --> 01:48:33,439
Speaker 4: I know that's so you got to you gotta write it,

1910
01:48:33,520 --> 01:48:34,080
Speaker 4: you gotta.

1911
01:48:34,000 --> 01:48:37,080
Speaker 6: Just you gotta do everything. And I was never in

1912
01:48:37,200 --> 01:48:37,799
Speaker 6: that position.

1913
01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:40,439
Speaker 4: You know, You're always a collaborator and one fourth of them.

1914
01:48:40,600 --> 01:48:43,360
Speaker 8: Yeah, and you know the publishing, like if you write

1915
01:48:43,400 --> 01:48:46,560
Speaker 8: for TV that that publishing is gone, you know.

1916
01:48:47,479 --> 01:48:47,679
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1917
01:48:47,840 --> 01:48:49,720
Speaker 8: So and an Earth Wind and Fire those were my

1918
01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:52,679
Speaker 8: first songs, so I got less of a writer's share

1919
01:48:53,600 --> 01:48:54,439
Speaker 8: than I should have.

1920
01:48:55,280 --> 01:48:58,640
Speaker 4: And my publishing was owned by A and M. So

1921
01:48:59,520 --> 01:49:02,719
Speaker 4: you know, everyone gets their cut. Oh yeah, lunch money,

1922
01:49:03,560 --> 01:49:09,960
Speaker 4: I see. Yeah, so okay, yeah, I see, Okay.

1923
01:49:11,120 --> 01:49:16,000
Speaker 1: Gun to your Head the three songs that you're the proudest.

1924
01:49:16,040 --> 01:49:18,880
Speaker 1: So I'm really salty. There're so we didn't talk about

1925
01:49:18,920 --> 01:49:19,840
Speaker 1: all American girls.

1926
01:49:19,920 --> 01:49:21,479
Speaker 2: We didn't talk about Well, she's going to invite us

1927
01:49:21,479 --> 01:49:26,680
Speaker 2: to her house, so maybe because we can invite Jennifer Lewis. Yes,

1928
01:49:26,880 --> 01:49:29,200
Speaker 2: oh my god, yeah, I'm getting emotional.

1929
01:49:31,200 --> 01:49:31,880
Speaker 4: To go.

1930
01:49:32,600 --> 01:49:33,479
Speaker 2: I would like to do that.

1931
01:49:34,080 --> 01:49:35,599
Speaker 4: Ever, she lives really close.

1932
01:49:36,760 --> 01:49:37,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll meet you.

1933
01:49:37,840 --> 01:49:41,080
Speaker 4: Got to make it happen. Okay, yeah you're out there, so.

1934
01:49:41,439 --> 01:49:42,679
Speaker 2: No, but we're gonna do it this year.

1935
01:49:42,920 --> 01:49:47,960
Speaker 4: We're ready, ready. Well, I thank you, thank you. This

1936
01:49:48,200 --> 01:49:51,280
Speaker 4: is wow. I could forever. Well.

1937
01:49:51,360 --> 01:49:53,840
Speaker 8: I'm so impressed with what you know. I always knew

1938
01:49:53,920 --> 01:49:56,240
Speaker 8: that you knew a lot of stuff, but you were

1939
01:49:56,320 --> 01:49:57,879
Speaker 8: digging them out from the bottom.

1940
01:49:58,960 --> 01:50:04,040
Speaker 1: I'm really well in Boss Bill and Fantigolo and Unpaid Bill.

1941
01:50:04,479 --> 01:50:08,400
Speaker 1: You missed eight Newsy today, Like I feel like I'm

1942
01:50:08,439 --> 01:50:13,160
Speaker 1: the least knowledgeable of the six of us on the show.

1943
01:50:13,400 --> 01:50:15,040
Speaker 4: So wow, that's some bullshit.

1944
01:50:15,080 --> 01:50:15,640
Speaker 2: He don't feel like that.

1945
01:50:16,479 --> 01:50:18,599
Speaker 4: I mean, if Bill and Fante were here, I barely

1946
01:50:18,600 --> 01:50:19,160
Speaker 4: get a word of it.

1947
01:50:19,160 --> 01:50:20,800
Speaker 2: But yeah, Fante would take Yeah he would have too.

1948
01:50:21,000 --> 01:50:24,679
Speaker 1: I mean they'd be freaking out over you know. Oh God,

1949
01:50:24,760 --> 01:50:28,320
Speaker 1: you wrote I should have loved you. Oh yeah, Jesus Christ.

1950
01:50:28,439 --> 01:50:29,280
Speaker 1: That should have been a continent.

1951
01:50:30,840 --> 01:50:34,840
Speaker 4: The bass player was Yeah, and Randy was seventeen years old. Yeah,

1952
01:50:35,040 --> 01:50:35,759
Speaker 4: Randy Jackson.

1953
01:50:36,400 --> 01:50:37,800
Speaker 2: We have him on the show coming up to.

1954
01:50:38,040 --> 01:50:41,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was seventeen years old when he first played that,

1955
01:50:41,400 --> 01:50:43,880
Speaker 1: and he sounds so much like Bernard Edwards anyway.

1956
01:50:44,120 --> 01:50:46,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I think that was conscious too. I think

1957
01:50:46,800 --> 01:50:47,960
Speaker 6: we were talking about that.

1958
01:50:48,600 --> 01:50:51,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, it felt like she grew. Yeah, all right, anyway,

1959
01:50:51,600 --> 01:50:54,519
Speaker 4: I thank you very much for coming on, ladies and gentlemen.

1960
01:50:54,720 --> 01:50:57,439
Speaker 2: He will legendary status right here.

1961
01:50:57,760 --> 01:51:04,400
Speaker 4: Sorry, riding Hall of Fame twenty eighteen fame. We've we've

1962
01:51:04,520 --> 01:51:09,400
Speaker 4: lost to our yeah world, So it's nice knowing you.

1963
01:51:10,200 --> 01:51:17,599
Speaker 4: You by anyway, This is use of course, Love Supreme

1964
01:51:18,360 --> 01:51:19,839
Speaker 4: the next go round. I'll see.

1965
01:51:22,040 --> 01:51:34,120
Speaker 8: H h h h.

1966
01:51:35,600 --> 01:51:35,840
Speaker 4: Court.

1967
01:51:35,920 --> 01:51:39,799
Speaker 1: Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic episode

1968
01:51:39,960 --> 01:51:47,000
Speaker 1: was produced by the team at Pandora. For more podcasts

1969
01:51:47,000 --> 01:51:50,560
Speaker 1: from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

1970
01:51:51,000 --> 01:51:52,719
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.