WEBVTT - Ep. 587: Finding a Middle Ground on Predators 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.320 This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.599 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast. You can't 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:22.040 predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:25.520 by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:28.880 or scouting for ELK. First Light has performance apparel to 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:31.960 support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:35.199 first light dot com. F I R S T L 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:41.320 I T E dot com. All right, everybody, we're joined 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:46.159 today by John Stallone and Charles Whitman from Howell for Wildlife, 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:49.159 which is an organization you hear more and more about 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:52.360 as they have been heavily involved in some of the 0:00:52.400 --> 0:00:56.760 fights to preserve our hunting rights around the country. 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:58.880 Welcome guys, Thank you for having us. 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:00.000 Thanks, yeah, thank you. 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.400 I know that. I think my first introduction to you 0:01:03.480 --> 0:01:07.839 guys was was uh. Jannis was one of the first 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:11.640 people I heard mentioned in it, and he would maybe 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.479 I had heard of you, but doing trivia a long 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.720 time ago. I think Gianni's made a donation the Hole 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:20.679 for Wildlife and uh, and so he brought you guys 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:27.480 onto our radar. Then increasingly you guys have come up 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:30.640 in conversations and stuff you're working on around the Colorado 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.880 Hunting Band vote, coming up with some other issues. So 0:01:34.160 --> 0:01:35.720 I'm looking forward to spend some time with you guys 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:39.800 talking about uh, some things that have happened, some things 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:44.480 that might happened in the efforts to preserve everyone's hunting rights. 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:47.400 So we will get to that shortly. Thanks for coming. 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:51.680 Meet it or TV YouTube channel now, not to be 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:56.040 confused with the YouTube channel where you watch our podcast network, 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:58.200 which now has its own channel. Tell him Krinn. 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:05.720 All right, So we've got a new podcast network, Meet 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:10.880 Eater podcast Network YouTube channel, which is distinct from the 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:15.000 Meet Eater TV YouTube channel and the mediat podcast network 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:19.359 channel on YouTube is going to be the place where 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:23.760 you can listen to and importantly watch all of our 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.919 all of the network podcasts. And if you are watching 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:31.200 us right now, that means you're already on that channel. 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:35.160 But please make sure you give it yeah welcome. Please 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:38.160 make sure you give a subscribe as well so that 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:41.480 when these pop up, you'll you'll get those alerts. 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:45.959 If on the regular channel, on the regular Mediator TV 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:51.079 YouTube channel, go right now and check out white tail edu. 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:55.480 So in this world you got ed not great, which 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.359 gets a lot at You got eed C, which is 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:04.400 your pocket night. I remember when that didn't exist. Yeah, 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.160 that would just it was a pocket knife. Now it's 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:10.880 an e DC. And then you got EDU meaning white 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:13.720 tail Edu on the Media to YouTube channel. It's with 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.760 Mark Kenyon Tony Peterson. It's a short video series running 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:21.640 through September. UH to get you in the mindset for 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.320 the fall hunting season and provide all kind of tips 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:28.720 and tricks for uh getting after white tails. 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:29.919 Man. 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.160 Those guys are great too. On the way on the 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.560 white tail front, I grew up hunting white tails. We 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:37.040 would just kind of put a tree in the same 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:40.800 put a tree stand in the same stuff. Yeah, out 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:43.680 on the point. So you just watched deer that were 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:45.200 five hundred. No, you couldn't see that. 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.520 Far, Tony was telling me. 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:50.320 And they left before I ever got it really figured out. 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:52.240 But these guys got it figured out. 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:55.520 Their number one request is people will send them on 0:03:55.800 --> 0:04:00.000 X pins and say where would you kill a due? 0:04:02.640 --> 0:04:03.280 Where should I? 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:04.360 Where should I set up? 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:04.480 Do? 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:04.960 They reply? 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:10.480 Their reply is listen and figure it out for yourself. Yes, 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:13.880 the whole teach man to fish. 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.920 Dude after hunting after Tony and I went down and 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.360 last fall and hunt some public land down in Oklahoma, 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:23.960 and watching that dude like uh, kind of put that 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:28.520 whole thing together, like just basically scouting on the fly 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:31.080 and then making determinations. 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.160 He's taken in all kinds of information you might know. 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:38.400 It's like six cents stuff, dude, it's sixth sense stuff. 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:41.200 Like you didn't sit there and be like, oh I 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:41.760 could do this. 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:46.279 No, it probably becomes six cents if you're constantly doing 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:49.480 doing something in a certain way and like keeping track 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:54.479 of certain things. It probably becomes like an instinct. 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.440 After what white tails are doing. When they're doing you know, 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.800 like you can take someone and show them, but you 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:03.719 know you might not notice, but look that's a deer trail, right, 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:06.480 and they'll eventually figure that out. But sort of his 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:10.480 his like I don't know, I think around four o'clock 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:13.600 he's gonna come down there, stand right there and eat 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:20.039 an acorn. It's it's incredible, man, he's good on those 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:24.440 dudes are good on white tails. It's fun to see. 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:28.600 We also have a new live streaming podcast called me 0:05:28.720 --> 0:05:32.839 Eater Radio. Live starts in a few days, so you 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.160 want to check that out. It's the Field Report all 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:39.120 from around the country. Live correspondence from around the country 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:41.720 telling you what they're up to, what's going on, what's 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:43.599 the news in the area, what's the hot bite in 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:47.200 the area, what kind of tattoos did they get they 0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.560 might later regret whatever. Field Reports from around the country, 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:55.360 Alaska to Florida, New York to Hawaii and all points 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:57.640 in between. You'll be hearing from some of the hardest 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:01.400 hitting outdoorsmen out there as they give you live reports 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:05.320 on what's going on in their area and in their lives. 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:13.159 But also co anchored by a combination of you Cal Brody, Randall, Spencer, 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:18.479 Yanni yep uh so nice peppering of different personalities from 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.400 across our network. And you will be able to watch 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.400 it live on the podcast. 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:26.440 But then you watch it later too. You want to 0:06:26.480 --> 0:06:29.200 watch it live, watch it live, yea. Turks and Caicos 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:32.000 repeals the law that has all the Americans locked up. 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:35.000 They walked the law back a little bit that has 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:37.400 all the Americans locked up. If you hadn't heard about this, 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:39.680 We've covered this and interviewed some of the people and 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:42.640 covered it on our website, covered it on podcasts. Turks 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:47.320 and Caicos passes really strict uh gun law which which 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.039 had a minimum uh was it twelve I think twelve 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:55.400 years minimum jail time for gun, Yeah, for for possession 0:06:55.480 --> 0:07:00.440 firearm possession. And the way they wrote it, we roll 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:04.240 up even if you had a shell and no gun 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:09.479 to shoot it from. And they caught. Once this law 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:13.800 was passed and started being strictly enforced, they caught five 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:19.720 American tourists summer, all of them coming out of the 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:25.440 country leaving Turks and Caicos with a stray round or 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:30.200 a stray few rounds of AMMO left over from hunting 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:35.880 season in their backpack. Jailed all these guys. A congressional 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:39.720 delegation went down there. There's a guy from Pennsylvania, so 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:42.160 I know, like fetterman from Pennsylvania went down there. There's 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:45.120 a guy from Oklahoma, so a congressman from Oklahoma, on 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:47.400 and on. Congressman from all these different states went down 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:50.400 there to try to put some heat on Turks and 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:54.480 Caicos to give the guys back, because clearly in this situation, 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:58.559 it's like, first they don't have a firearm to match 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:03.559 the ammo. Second they've already gotten somehow they got into 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:04.360 the country like. 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.320 Favor by taking Ammo out of the country. 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.400 Yeah, and it'd be, you know, it'd be like some 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:12.120 some honey Ammo. They got into the country, stayed the 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:14.320 whole time, and now they're leaving and you catch them 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:17.200 on the way out the door with a bullet or 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:21.400 two in their bag. And so this US congressional delegation 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:23.880 goes down there and says, come on, I mean, come 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:27.400 on right. And I had earlier I had wondered, like, 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:29.440 what would be the leverage that the US would apply 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:31.800 to Turks and Caicos. The one thing that that I 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.440 realized in some reading I did this morning. Leverage they 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:39.240 could apply is a state department issues of warning like 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:42.880 don't go to you know, warning businesses don't do business 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.600 in Turks and Caicos because they're a little over zealous, 0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:49.199 and warn US citizens, hey be careful going to Turks 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.120 and Caicos, which can really when when you have a 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:55.199 country whose economy is based on tourism. So apparently that's 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:58.959 the pressure they put on. And meanwhile they've been slowly 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.480 letting these guys out. They held one guy in jail 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:05.479 for one hundred days, he got out on time, served 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.680 another guy came home because he's got bad health problems. 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:11.240 One of the two guys we interviewed his home. Another 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:14.319 one's gonna find out today or tomorrow. And meanwhile, they 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.120 walked back the wording on the they walked back the 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:24.319 wording on the legislation. Still still check your bags, dude. 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:26.760 I'm like, I'm always yelling at my little boy because 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.400 he's super careless of twenty two shells. Put the things 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:31.040 back in the box. 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:33.360 I got detained for a little while in Anchorage. 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:36.840 I got I got rolled up in Mexico. 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:39.800 Yeah, Mexico. I'd rather get detained an anchored. 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:41.880 I was scary because you were in what happened there. 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:46.120 So again, I was coming back across the border and 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:49.720 I had shotgun shells underneath the back seat of my 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:53.800 truck because I had gotten coyote hunting, like like a 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:54.800 week before we went there. 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:56.679 Well, it's also just where shotgun shells. 0:09:56.440 --> 0:10:00.240 Live, exactly, And you know they were just you want 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.360 a routine inspection, checking for if I was bringing fruit 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:07.240 or whatever. And they've found these two shells, and they 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:09.120 pulled me and my family the US side of the 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:10.440 Mexico side and Mexico side. 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:11.080 Okay, I got it. 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.280 Yeah, So I was kind of, you know, crap in 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:15.040 my pants a little bit because I didn't know. I 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:16.920 was there with my kids and my wife. 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:18.959 Luckily I had my whole fit. 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:20.920 My parents were with us, my uncles were with us. 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:22.680 We were like down there for a whole thing. So 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:26.720 eventually they just took the shells, throw them out and 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:29.240 let us go. But it was a little harry for 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:30.000 a little bit there. 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:36.400 I want to I want to know, like what percentage 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.240 of government spending goes into stuff like this when we 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:43.600 all bitch about government overspending, Like, well, we had to 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:48.800 send a congressional delegation because some folks on vacation had 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:52.120 a couple of shells in their pocket. I'd just like 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:55.280 to know. But I could guarantee the like, thank God 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:56.560 for the US government. 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:58.760 They probably worked in a little vacation while they were 0:10:58.800 --> 0:10:59.240 down there. 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.079 Yeah, you know, it's totally hilarious. I don't want to 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:11.880 say the name. But there's a subject we've been wanting 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:14.840 to have h we wanting to do another episode on 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:20.360 wild horses, wildhorse, the wildhorse wild Borough subject. So I 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:22.960 was telling Krin, was like, I really want to find 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:27.800 like a guest who's got deep, deep history, deep personal 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:30.880 on the ground history with the issue of wild horses, 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:34.440 the wild Horse and Burrough Protection Act, unintended consequences of 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.600 the wild Horse and Burrough Protection Act, the kind of 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:43.400 insanity of shipping these horses to Oklahoma and paying farmers 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:45.760 to raise them until they die of old age because 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:49.200 there's no other outlet for them. All that, and I 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:53.320 start eyeballing this guy that seems great on the subject. 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.040 And I said to Krint, once you find this guy 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:58.000 and see if you'll come on the show. And last 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:01.760 night Krinn sends me a article and like we'll share 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:04.040 articles all the time. And I'm reading the article thinking 0:12:04.040 --> 0:12:05.680 that there's like a hunting and fishing angle to it. 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:08.360 And it's an article about this guy who's embezzling money 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:12.280 from a university by just weird little petty things, like 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:15.640 he would like expense report, he would take a company 0:12:15.679 --> 0:12:17.800 car but then fill out an expense report as though 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:21.160 he took his own car, right. Or he would have 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:24.960 his daughters getting married somewhere, so he would book a 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:29.040 big house for the family to be at the wedding, 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:33.400 but then he would schedule a meeting and then white 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:38.040 out the details and submit the white out certain details 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:40.280 on the invoice, and submit the invoice for reimbursement. 0:12:40.360 --> 0:12:42.800 He's got a shitload of markers and staples at his house. 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:45.800 Yeah, And I'm reading the article thinking that I'm going 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:47.960 to get to a part where he's using a company 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:50.040 truck for hunting and fishing, Like, I don't know, I'm waiting. 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.880 I'm waiting for the hunting and fishing angle. And I 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:54.760 text her him like I don't see the relevance of 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:57.560 what you just sent me, and she goes, that's the 0:12:57.640 --> 0:12:59.400 guy that you've been telling me to. 0:12:59.320 --> 0:12:59.679 Get out of. 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:03.319 So I'm like, oh, I guess we're back to the 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:03.920 drawing board. 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:05.920 I think we know some people. We know some people. 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:06.719 We talked about it later. 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:08.920 We've done some actions on wild. 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.320 Horses, fair horses and all that in Arizona specific. 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.560 Yeah, exactly. So if you are a here's the catch. 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:19.160 You can't you cannot be God bless you. This is 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.440 not like a this is not not, this is not 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:26.120 meaning any disrespect, not. You can't be an agency person. 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:29.520 You can be a former agency person, but you can't 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.760 be a current agency person because it's the kind of 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:35.559 issue where if you if you're an agency person, you're 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:37.599 going to be restricted on what you can say, and 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:39.800 you're gonna be reluctant to share your own opinions because 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:44.600 of retribution. Former agency person or other professional ten yared 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:48.480 a person who's tenured somewhere and can just talk about 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.319 the issue, and they and you could be free to say, 0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:55.040 you know, I'll tell you the crazy part about this, 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.120 or here's the part that everybody thinks is crazy, but 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.720 it's not so crazy, and just a real someone who 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:04.600 really sees all sides of it, understands arguments on both ends. 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:08.480 Cal's looking at me like he wants the job. 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.679 At the same time, I want somebody from the horse 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:20.360 sausage industry. 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:18.960 Come down from the glue factory. 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:23.360 Yeah, no agency people, and you know, we're open to 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:25.760 a glue factory person, but he's gotta you gotta be 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:29.840 a well rounded glue factory person. Uh So there's a 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:35.640 call to action. The the the pronunciation on the Roosevelt 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:41.040 Roosevelt family deepens. Do you ready for this? 0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:43.560 Guy? 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:45.320 Wrote in who's this person's name? 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:46.760 Her? 0:14:47.320 --> 0:14:50.440 Michelle? Michelle? What's dBm and MS mean that? 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:51.520 Oh? 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:52.400 That wrote in. 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:57.120 They're getting paid for this somehow? 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:00.000 I actually need to call her about this pigeons. 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.720 It's a little. 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:04.200 Late now, but I want to know. 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:04.520 That I did. 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:07.640 Well, that's who we called, but we didn't call her. 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:10.000 We called her. We kind of jumped the gun and 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.640 already burned some, burned some, you know, we call it 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:17.360 Goodwill called her a couple of times about non issues, 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:19.600 and then when we had an issue, I was like, 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.160 are we really going to call her again about these pigeons? 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:24.440 She might appreciate it. 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.320 I think a little bit I gathered from her tonality 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:31.440 was a little bit of like, why did you go 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.440 get them right? 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:34.600 Why? 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:37.800 This all seems very preventable. 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:44.080 I do need to talk to this person though, Veterinary 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:47.400 microbiology Snort's got some gut health issues that we need 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:48.000 to figure out. 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:48.800 Call her up. 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:50.600 Here's what she has to say right Here's what she 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:55.960 had to say right now, Michelle. She says some interesting 0:15:56.040 --> 0:16:00.960 history surrounding the Roosevelt family in pronuncie of the name 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.920 I have period. I've always jumped back and forth and 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:06.200 had been intellectually too lazy to figure out what it 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:09.120 actually was, so I would sometimes do ruse and sometimes 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:16.400 do rose. And I was corrected that when speaking of Theodore. 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:22.200 It's Roosevelt, and he spelled, he articulated very clearly in letters, 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:24.320 and that's how he likes it to be. But hear this. 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:31.880 My husband got on a presidential biography kick, and around 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.120 the time our son was born, he was working through 0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:42.520 Edmund Morris's three part biography of Theodore Roosevelt. This became 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.240 my son's first bedtime story, as he loved to read 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.720 aloud for him every night, and even threw in an 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.840 attempt at an old timey accent, Phil do your old 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:56.200 timey accent from people in movies from the early movie days? 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.280 Well, hey, there, Chap, how you doing. You've got a 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:00.600 nice looking mouth, like to kiss it? 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:05.520 And then do the what's the big idea? Here? And 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:09.119 so you want to be a star? Hey, what's the 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:09.679 big idea? 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:11.040 You want to be a star? 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:11.520 Don't you. 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:18.600 Still? Specially last name? Yeah? Where was that? 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:19.000 Oh? 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:22.679 Somewhere In this trilogy was an explanation of the history 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:26.400 of the family, which was intertwined with the differences in pronunciation. 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:33.000 There are historically two different groups of Roosevelts, the Hyde 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:37.520 Park clan and the Oyster Bay Clan, who are each 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:42.200 based from two different sons of the hell's that name? 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:48.160 Klaus Martins, marts and Von. 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:50.720 I think it's Marten. 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:52.600 That sounds like a name you'd have. 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:54.760 The important Rosenbelt. 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:57.280 But I like that whole name because it makes you. 0:17:57.400 --> 0:18:00.760 It makes it's like, you know, so there's the thing 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:03.240 I've become interested in. It's like there's certain names you'll 0:18:03.280 --> 0:18:05.640 see and you know they're rich. 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:08.760 Yeah, we hit on that the other day. What is 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:09.640 that guy's name? 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:11.240 I can't remember. 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:20.000 Braxton, Braxton, Saxon Axton. Yeah, yeah, it's like they know, 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.439 like rich. I wonder if it works as if I 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:26.000 name my kid a rich name. If I was like, 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:28.400 I'm gonna name him Thurston so. 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:29.920 He become rich. 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.280 Yeah, well, will money just flow his way because you 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:36.760 named your kid Dave? I mean, who knows, could go anywhay. 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:42.040 But if I named him Thurston von Renel in the ninth, 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:43.880 does money just show up? 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.080 Likely he's gonna be getting calls for sure. 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:53.200 Klaus Martins and von Roosevelt, who arrived in New Amsterdam 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:59.680 around sixteen forty, meaning that family showed up in Manhattan 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.520 and sixteen forty. That's a good way to make money. Actually, 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:07.720 I think the money followed the name Theodore Roosevelt was 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:14.200 part of the Oyster Bay branch who pronounced the name Roosevelt. 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:19.280 Franklin D. Roosevelt was part of the Hyde Park clan 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:26.480 who pronounced the name Roosevelt. So technically the pronunciation indicates 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:31.119 which branch of the family you are referring to. That's great, 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:33.880 So that confuses things even more so. Now when you're 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:38.040 talking about the Great Depression and you're going to talk 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:41.639 about Franklin delan No, you need to go like, Okay, 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:45.280 what was it again? That's right Roosevelt. And if you're 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:51.000 talking about the trustbusters in the early conservation movement and Theodore, 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:52.240 you gotta go, what was it again? 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:56.000 That's right Roosevelt? Elt though, well, I don't know right. 0:19:56.119 --> 0:20:01.560 I think we should say cows deer are our deer 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:06.159 that reside in Arizona, New Mexico, whereas cou's deer are 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:08.600 the ones we hunt in Mexico. 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:10.879 I would I would beg to argue with that. 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:13.200 Are you are you a cole's or a cousman? 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:15.879 I'm a cousman, and everybody that I know sayscus and 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:16.800 I live in Arizona. 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:20.000 So when I wanted to know, I checked with Chris Denim, 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:23.200 who's written said it more than anybody on the planet, 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:26.400 and he said, till the day I die exactly. 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:29.359 There's nobody that says cows deer unless. 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:34.200 There's one. We're just one non pretentious person that says it, 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:35.159 and it's half a finger. 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.600 But he's a stickler. He's a stickler. 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:39.879 We had spelled one one of our things online. We 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:44.920 had spelled what state we spelled. We spelled Nevada wrong, 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.560 and Jim texts me. He says, there are two ways 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:50.760 to pronounce Nevada, but one way to spell it. 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:53.080 Uh. 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:55.240 This guy wrote in a nuclear and r f K Junior. 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:59.480 So we recently re interviewed RFK Jr. And talked about 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:10.440 which I remain I'm not. I feel that we need 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:12.000 to be leaned. I'll just say I feel that, without 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.040 really knowing what I'm talking about, I feel that we 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:17.800 need to be leaning very heavily that direction, he says. 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.600 The guy rites in, I am the plant manager of 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:23.920 a nuclear plant and need to remain anonymous due to 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:27.800 company policy. I listened to the podcast religiously. In this 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:32.440 week's discussion on nuclear power was upsetting our FK made 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:37.200 two points on nuclear nuclear that were stated as facts 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:41.359 and are both completely false. I'm not looking to force 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:45.879 an opinion on anyone, just correct some bad information. Our 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:51.439 FK stated nuclear is heavily subsidized. Not true. We do 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:56.120 not receive the carbon credits, wind and solar benefit from 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:59.119 I had no idea that that was true. If you 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:00.720 get a new a little game, well, who's right. But 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:02.480 I'm gonna trust. I'm gonna give this guy that I'm 0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:06.320 gonna trusted. This guy's craig for this week. He goes on, 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:12.280 I think we should because nuclear is carbon free as well, 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:14.800 but that's an opinion. We do get some recovery payment 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:19.119 from the government for spent fuel storage, but that is 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:22.199 not a subsidy. The money is repayment for all the 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:26.600 money we spent on the failed Yucca Mountain government project. 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:29.600 Without getting into the weeds too much, just for people, 0:22:29.640 --> 0:22:34.040 the Yucca Mountain project was there was a plan. We 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:37.119 have all kinds of nuclear ways stored in places that 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:40.200 are not long term storage, and for a while there 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:45.240 was a plan to augur a deep, deep hole in 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:47.440 the area that's regarded to be one of the most 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:52.400 geologically stable areas in the country and store and then 0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:58.359 lead seal the stuff into a mountain, which sounds bad 0:22:58.600 --> 0:23:04.120 until you consider that it's all somewhere already. Anyway, two 0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:07.399 primary arguments against it. One, you got to get it there. Okay, 0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:10.640 so all this stuff woul then need to be transported, 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:13.960 which some people argue would be a huge security and 0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:16.840 environmental risk to transport it. Other people say, well, you 0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:18.600 got to do something with it because it's not good 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:25.480 where it is. The other issue is Native Americans in 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:30.280 in was yucka mountain? Nevada or Arizona? Sorry I don't 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:33.080 know this Nevada, right, I think, so type it in 0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:34.560 real quick, please. 0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:41.080 There's definitely two in Arizona, Nevada. 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:45.560 And I think it was the Navajo who were of 0:23:45.600 --> 0:23:48.760 the opinion, don't put that ship here on our land. 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:51.840 Understandable. 0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:59.640 So there's that two. It's point two. RFK was empathetic 0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:03.040 about the lack of insurance for nuclear plants Western Nation. 0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:07.800 Okay, there you go, sorry about that. 0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:12.479 RFK was emphatic about the lack of insurance for nuclear plants. 0:24:12.520 --> 0:24:15.440 This is again completely false. Now I got to clarify 0:24:15.560 --> 0:24:20.120 to the person writing in, he wasn't He wasn't talking 0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:22.879 about a lack of insurance for nuclear plants. He's talking 0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:26.640 about the astronomically high cost of insurance for nuclear plants, 0:24:26.640 --> 0:24:30.119 meaning people think that anti nuclear people are hippies and 0:24:30.160 --> 0:24:32.800 tie dies. And he said, you also have to blame 0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:36.040 guys and ties on Wall Street. I don't think they 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:40.119 wear ties on Wall Street anymore. They unbutton Yeah, they 0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:41.119 unbuttoned the top button. 0:24:42.720 --> 0:24:42.840 Uh. 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:48.000 He was saying. The real the problem there is cost 0:24:48.040 --> 0:24:51.159 of insurance, meaning Wall Street guys don't want to insure. 0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:54.400 So a little bit of a squabble there on that. 0:24:54.560 --> 0:24:57.080 But again he says, this is again completely false. Nuclear 0:24:57.320 --> 0:24:59.400 plants are heavily insured by. 0:24:59.440 --> 0:25:00.480 Multiple com companies. 0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:08.680 One update, though, because the Senate just passed a bill 0:25:08.760 --> 0:25:15.880 to support advanced nuclear deployment. So it passed. The Senate 0:25:15.920 --> 0:25:19.480 passed the bill to accelerate the deployment of nuclear energy capacity, 0:25:20.080 --> 0:25:24.760 including by speeding, permitting, and creating new incentives for advanced 0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:31.240 nuclear reactor technologies. And this passed eighty eight to two. 0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:32.760 Oh you. 0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:35.520 In on this. 0:25:36.920 --> 0:25:37.600 The real reason? 0:25:37.600 --> 0:25:38.000 Why? 0:25:38.960 --> 0:25:45.160 No, no, no, she's uh hedging her bets on on Awama. 0:25:45.600 --> 0:25:47.560 I can also see I can also see. 0:25:47.359 --> 0:25:53.720 Act manipulate the stock market rolling through the Nasdak during 0:25:53.720 --> 0:25:56.000 this whole podcast, just got grafts going on. 0:25:55.960 --> 0:25:59.520 Me on me, I'm just gonna really manipulate it. And 0:25:59.560 --> 0:26:04.440 it's going to Joe Biden for signature to become law. 0:26:04.520 --> 0:26:06.280 I'm not exactly sure when that's gonna be. 0:26:06.400 --> 0:26:12.040 But the guy concludes he even gives his first name. 0:26:12.080 --> 0:26:15.399 I don't even read his damn first name. It's A. 0:26:15.600 --> 0:26:15.840 It's A. 0:26:16.119 --> 0:26:18.720 I'll I'll give a hint. He has the same first 0:26:18.800 --> 0:26:23.720 name as a very popular country musician. I could go 0:26:23.720 --> 0:26:26.280 into a great deal, great detail in each of these points, 0:26:26.320 --> 0:26:28.960 but in the interest of brevity, I won't. I do 0:26:29.119 --> 0:26:32.520 sense a sincere curiosity, especially if Steve anytime nuclear comes 0:26:32.600 --> 0:26:34.600 up on the podcast, it would be great to have 0:26:34.640 --> 0:26:37.320 an expert on to speak in facts and allow listeners 0:26:37.359 --> 0:26:39.439 to decide for themselves. I love, I love what you 0:26:39.440 --> 0:26:43.080 guys are doing. Keep up the good work. If you're 0:26:43.119 --> 0:26:45.640 sitting at home or driving in your truck wondering why 0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:48.720 we're talking about this on a show about wildlife and 0:26:48.800 --> 0:26:51.280 hunting and fishing and whatnot, I'll lay it out for 0:26:51.359 --> 0:26:59.840 you very very briefly. As the country moves toward, As 0:26:59.880 --> 0:27:06.720 the country moves toward renewables, and I think we're going 0:27:06.800 --> 0:27:09.080 to retract from renewables because I do not think like 0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:12.480 there's no there's no way Biden's gonna win in November, 0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:15.200 so we're gonna see it. We're gonna see a retraction 0:27:15.280 --> 0:27:19.400 on renewables. But if we do push ahead on renewables, 0:27:19.440 --> 0:27:23.240 there's this conversation about how much of our public lands 0:27:23.320 --> 0:27:28.960 do we put over to renewables. And when I look 0:27:29.160 --> 0:27:32.240 as a as an energy novice, when I look at 0:27:33.680 --> 0:27:43.360 the the huge movement, I'm struggling forwards. When I look 0:27:43.400 --> 0:27:48.760 at how heavily we're spending on moving toward renewable energy, 0:27:50.040 --> 0:27:54.240 I just can't see why we're not moving heavily aggressively 0:27:54.280 --> 0:27:58.359 into research and deployment of nuclear energy because the footprints 0:27:58.400 --> 0:27:58.879 so small. 0:27:59.600 --> 0:28:03.080 And how hopefully I mean, I guess that's reveals my perspective, 0:28:03.119 --> 0:28:08.960 but hopefully, And it seems like potentially from certain you know, legislation, 0:28:09.320 --> 0:28:11.520 that there is momentum behind that. And I think that 0:28:11.560 --> 0:28:15.879 there are people driving markets, you know, all these AI 0:28:16.040 --> 0:28:19.920 investors who are actually talking to nuclear so that might become. 0:28:19.760 --> 0:28:23.719 Because of the huge power needs of Aially exactly. 0:28:23.440 --> 0:28:27.200 It's either it's either we go back and double down 0:28:27.200 --> 0:28:31.520 on fossil fuels. We plaster our coastlines with wind farms 0:28:31.560 --> 0:28:34.040 and convert hundreds of thousands of acres of BLM to 0:28:34.119 --> 0:28:37.879 solar arrays and wind. I'm not trying to make it 0:28:37.920 --> 0:28:39.320 like like a rock and a hard spot, but it's 0:28:39.320 --> 0:28:40.640 a little bit of a rock and a hard spot. 0:28:40.680 --> 0:28:44.080 And I can't get satisfied around the idea. I know 0:28:44.320 --> 0:28:49.680 that we had these huge crises three Mile Island, Chernoble, 0:28:51.280 --> 0:28:56.080 what's the Japan. Yeah, the tsunami that wiped out the 0:28:56.080 --> 0:29:01.080 Fukushima power plant. Like I understand all of that, but 0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:03.720 my god, do I feel like we need to be 0:29:03.760 --> 0:29:05.040 taking that stuff more seriously? 0:29:05.120 --> 0:29:09.040 Well, how about this bs on batteries? Like the solution 0:29:09.320 --> 0:29:15.520 is coming up with bigger batteries, Like that's I do 0:29:15.560 --> 0:29:17.200 not believe that for a fricking second. 0:29:17.400 --> 0:29:20.360 Did you hear Trump lay out his concerns about big batteries. 0:29:20.960 --> 0:29:23.920 No, but I just changed batteries and at my house 0:29:24.000 --> 0:29:27.120 last night, and I'm like, here's this thing. And my 0:29:27.200 --> 0:29:31.080 place is right next to Pacific Steel and Recycling. Huge 0:29:31.080 --> 0:29:33.040 shout out to that places, because it's like the most 0:29:33.040 --> 0:29:37.840 fun place I go. You can recycle anything. And then yeah, 0:29:37.840 --> 0:29:40.200 and then you get paid for it. It's awesome and 0:29:40.240 --> 0:29:43.200 there's a bunch of real interesting folks down there. Awesome 0:29:43.240 --> 0:29:46.760 documentary to be made. I could waste a lot of 0:29:46.800 --> 0:29:50.320 time at Pacific Steel. Uh you know what, they don't 0:29:50.360 --> 0:29:55.520 recycle any type of battery. Why not because it's trash. 0:29:55.560 --> 0:29:57.520 They're like, you can't recycle that poisons. 0:29:57.640 --> 0:29:59.120 But why are they always paying that? 0:29:59.280 --> 0:30:02.480 Why are they always Well, there's people who can recycle 0:30:02.520 --> 0:30:05.120 the lead out of lead core batteries. 0:30:05.840 --> 0:30:07.600 Oh they don't want lithiums. 0:30:08.200 --> 0:30:12.960 Yep, no alkaline. Uh you know, no double as, triple as. 0:30:13.240 --> 0:30:15.680 Oh that kind of battery. Okay, Yeah, when you said batteries, 0:30:15.800 --> 0:30:17.320 my head immediately went to the fact that you can 0:30:17.360 --> 0:30:19.600 get money for a car battery. But that's right, that's 0:30:19.640 --> 0:30:21.000 a fraction of allt. 0:30:20.720 --> 0:30:23.320 But like these lithium batteries and stuff like that is like, 0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:25.120 it's just it's trash, man. 0:30:26.080 --> 0:30:28.920 You don't want to get them wet either, or take 0:30:28.960 --> 0:30:29.720 them on an airplane. 0:30:30.320 --> 0:30:31.760 Brody and I were laughing there at Eggs. I was 0:30:31.760 --> 0:30:33.600 watching this clip. I kept hearing that Trump was talking 0:30:33.640 --> 0:30:36.200 a lot about shark attacks. I was like, what, So 0:30:36.240 --> 0:30:38.360 I was watching this clip and he's talking about boats 0:30:38.360 --> 0:30:41.400 like vessels now with these huge battery powered vessels, and 0:30:41.440 --> 0:30:43.880 he's laying out a scenario where the vessel is sinking 0:30:44.400 --> 0:30:46.360 and you have a lot of electricity in the water 0:30:46.440 --> 0:30:48.800 and you're faced with a do you stay with the 0:30:48.840 --> 0:30:52.720 boat or risk shark attack by getting away from the boat. 0:30:53.520 --> 0:30:57.880 And he really had shark attacks on his mind. He 0:30:57.920 --> 0:31:00.720 had been a woman had just lost the leg a shark. 0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:03.040 Maybe in Florida, and you see. 0:31:02.880 --> 0:31:05.959 Yeah, people in the audience were a little confused. 0:31:06.200 --> 0:31:10.040 But he was back on the other day. 0:31:10.440 --> 0:31:12.600 It's funny that he's Uh, I'd like him to come on. 0:31:13.040 --> 0:31:15.560 Did you catch when you talk about sharks that you 0:31:15.600 --> 0:31:18.640 struggled with the word nuclear always my whole life? 0:31:18.720 --> 0:31:18.920 Yeah? 0:31:18.920 --> 0:31:21.120 Do you remember the the Bush clips? 0:31:21.560 --> 0:31:23.320 No? Do you have a hard time with. 0:31:23.280 --> 0:31:27.400 It Bush number two? Yeah, there's a great, great series 0:31:27.440 --> 0:31:30.960 of nuclear. 0:31:30.480 --> 0:31:32.320 That that was a big thing. Is this guy that 0:31:32.360 --> 0:31:35.640 wrote in you know where he's from, perhaps from Michigan. 0:31:36.120 --> 0:31:39.000 On the nuclear part? Oh, he can't say that. 0:31:39.040 --> 0:31:39.560 I can't say. 0:31:39.720 --> 0:31:42.720 He won't even say I grew up right next to a. 0:31:42.240 --> 0:31:44.440 Form nuclear power plant in Michigan. 0:31:44.680 --> 0:31:45.360 Was his name? Luke? 0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:47.320 I was gonna say? 0:31:47.400 --> 0:31:50.360 Luke said the country music. 0:31:52.120 --> 0:31:53.640 Has to be kept quiet. 0:31:53.680 --> 0:31:55.240 Well, how do you know what his name is? That Whalen? 0:31:56.760 --> 0:31:56.960 I know? 0:31:57.040 --> 0:32:00.360 Yeah, no Waylon was my second guess, sure, yeah, or 0:32:00.400 --> 0:32:04.040 George could have been George, or Tana could have been Garth, Garth, 0:32:04.160 --> 0:32:06.800 Tanya George, Yeah, Tanya be. 0:32:08.360 --> 0:32:15.480 Dolly dude. That song Delta don oh dude, I love it. Yeah, 0:32:15.520 --> 0:32:16.360 she was a teenager. 0:32:16.480 --> 0:32:16.880 Yeah. 0:32:17.000 --> 0:32:20.040 Oh have you ever looked at the YouTube Grand Old Aubrey. 0:32:22.760 --> 0:32:23.200 Good stuff? 0:32:23.240 --> 0:32:23.840 Yeah, that's great. 0:32:23.960 --> 0:32:26.000 She almost had a big role in Jeremiah Johnson. Did 0:32:26.000 --> 0:32:28.680 you know that? No, she wout up having a small 0:32:28.760 --> 0:32:29.840 role in Jeremiah Johnson. 0:32:29.960 --> 0:32:31.760 H Oh, she did have one. 0:32:32.000 --> 0:32:34.160 Yeah, dude, you could do it. I shouldn't throw this 0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:35.920 out there because maybe some day, well you could do 0:32:35.960 --> 0:32:40.120 a whole documentary on Jeremia Johnson. Here's a good one 0:32:40.120 --> 0:32:46.960 for you guys. It's a chettaquot question. Chettiicut meaning Chester's 0:32:46.960 --> 0:32:49.720 not even here. It means it's an etequatet question, and 0:32:49.800 --> 0:32:53.320 we normally defer to Chester, who likes etiquette. He's not 0:32:53.360 --> 0:32:55.600 even here, so I guess it's more of an etiquette question. 0:32:57.240 --> 0:32:59.440 It's a good one. I'm seeking guidance on a recent 0:32:59.480 --> 0:33:01.320 dilemma I have been troubled with, so it's not so 0:33:01.440 --> 0:33:04.360 recent anymore. But from the spring, he says, I live 0:33:04.400 --> 0:33:07.200 in a mid Atlantic state. He's he doesn't want to 0:33:07.200 --> 0:33:10.880 tell a mid Atlantic state. He doesn't want to get done. 0:33:11.000 --> 0:33:13.480 He doesn't want people to narrow down to what state 0:33:13.520 --> 0:33:19.000 he's in. I live in a state with a robust 0:33:19.280 --> 0:33:24.320 turkey uppercase tea population. This season, I hunted the woods 0:33:24.320 --> 0:33:27.200 behind my house. You always know where it's going when 0:33:27.200 --> 0:33:30.400 someone hunts the woods behind their house. I had several 0:33:30.440 --> 0:33:32.880 close encounters at the same time and never filled my tag. 0:33:33.640 --> 0:33:38.520 Three days after the season ended, I woke up to 0:33:38.560 --> 0:33:43.440 the barks and growls of my Labrador retriever uppercase R. 0:33:44.160 --> 0:33:46.240 He was right to uppercase the l and wrong to 0:33:46.280 --> 0:33:50.080 uppercase the R. I looked out my bedroom window to 0:33:50.120 --> 0:33:54.480 see that the same tom had found itself trapped inside 0:33:54.520 --> 0:33:58.960 my garden plot, which is surrounded by an eight foot fence. 0:34:00.160 --> 0:34:04.120 I watched as the bird retreated, repeatedly, tried to take flight, 0:34:04.280 --> 0:34:06.719 hit the fence, and run around the garden, tearing up 0:34:06.760 --> 0:34:11.720 my plants. My immediate thought was to grab my twelve 0:34:11.800 --> 0:34:23.400 gage and protect my crops. Hear them out. Suddenly, every 0:34:23.480 --> 0:34:27.480 segment of Chetticut popped in my head. I felt as 0:34:27.520 --> 0:34:30.600 though I was biased and wanting a turkey in my freezer. 0:34:30.719 --> 0:34:34.800 Yeah maybe, and that my rationale and protecting my crops 0:34:36.120 --> 0:34:40.320 may be impaired by the frustration of the prior turkey season. 0:34:40.960 --> 0:34:43.560 I don't rely on my garden for survival, but I 0:34:43.600 --> 0:34:47.040 do appreciate my homegrown veggies. I called my States Game 0:34:47.040 --> 0:34:49.560 Ward and dispatch several times and was told to leave 0:34:49.600 --> 0:34:52.120 a message and that someone would get back to me. 0:34:52.640 --> 0:34:57.040 The Department of Natural Resources website states homeowners are strictly 0:34:57.080 --> 0:35:02.120 prohibited from trapping and shooting wildlife outside regulated seasons unless 0:35:02.200 --> 0:35:07.560 the animal has been actively causing property damage or is 0:35:07.600 --> 0:35:12.880 an obvious threat to public health and safety. Eventually, I 0:35:12.920 --> 0:35:14.960 was able to get the garden gate open and scare 0:35:15.000 --> 0:35:17.840 the bird out, damaging even more plans. 0:35:17.880 --> 0:35:21.280 I don't understand the Eventually, I would like the tinges 0:35:21.320 --> 0:35:21.840 were rusted. 0:35:22.160 --> 0:35:25.440 I don't know, he doesn't say. After a closer inspection 0:35:25.560 --> 0:35:27.759 of the garden, I wish I shot the bird on 0:35:27.880 --> 0:35:30.920 site because he took out my onion. 0:35:30.600 --> 0:35:33.839 Patch that I worked real hard on. 0:35:34.080 --> 0:35:35.960 It's been three days and the game war and has 0:35:35.960 --> 0:35:39.160 it called my buddies will giving a lot of crap 0:35:39.200 --> 0:35:41.239 for not shooting the bird. My question is what I 0:35:41.280 --> 0:35:44.080 have been right to shoot the bird? It was actively 0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:46.920 causing damage. 0:35:48.680 --> 0:35:52.799 If you this is where if you're a hunter, you 0:35:52.880 --> 0:35:55.600 cannot shoot that bird. If you have a hunting license, 0:35:56.080 --> 0:35:58.000 You're you're not gonna end up on the right side 0:35:58.000 --> 0:35:58.439 of the story. 0:35:58.920 --> 0:36:01.000 And we're I'm too killed. 0:36:01.120 --> 0:36:03.120 I have so many questions though, how to get in 0:36:03.160 --> 0:36:03.800 there in the first. 0:36:03.680 --> 0:36:06.880 P Well, I've been waiting to share this. I was 0:36:06.920 --> 0:36:09.560 in the situation he's in. I didn't have a fence 0:36:09.600 --> 0:36:13.080 around my garden. When I got a fence around my garden, 0:36:13.160 --> 0:36:15.200 I mean, it wasn't a day and there was a 0:36:15.239 --> 0:36:18.200 turkey in there because the dog chased a turkey up 0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:21.440 on the roof of the house. When the turkey pitched 0:36:21.480 --> 0:36:23.759 off the roof of the house, he landed in that 0:36:23.840 --> 0:36:28.960 garden and proceeded to run all over freaking out until 0:36:28.960 --> 0:36:30.880 we were able to get him out of the fence. 0:36:30.960 --> 0:36:32.720 Yeah, they have trouble with fences. 0:36:33.120 --> 0:36:35.799 I'll point out to this gentleman. It never the thought 0:36:35.880 --> 0:36:39.480 never occurred in my mind to kill that turkey. 0:36:39.560 --> 0:36:41.200 He was just sorry he didn't get. 0:36:41.360 --> 0:36:45.440 I think that if you I think that you that 0:36:45.440 --> 0:36:48.359 that because you were trying to kill that turkey and 0:36:48.400 --> 0:36:51.760 got duped. And then if you did kill that turkey, 0:36:51.840 --> 0:36:59.319 now you would always be suspect. Always, there would always be. 0:37:01.000 --> 0:37:01.120 Uh. 0:37:03.200 --> 0:37:05.000 I'm not trying to put suspicion. 0:37:05.520 --> 0:37:08.920 Yeah, in the neighborhood. I understand the wanting to protect 0:37:08.920 --> 0:37:11.520 your garden. I was eyeballing a cottontail this morning that 0:37:11.680 --> 0:37:13.680 was drifting towards my garden. 0:37:13.480 --> 0:37:15.880 And Brody's got a domestic cat giving him a lot 0:37:15.920 --> 0:37:19.440 of good deal. Oh that gross unit. This garden as 0:37:19.440 --> 0:37:24.480 an outhouse, which infuriates Brody. Oh the cat, it might 0:37:24.480 --> 0:37:26.279 as well be defecating in Brodie's mouth. 0:37:26.400 --> 0:37:30.839 Yes, I tried non lethal deterrence like laying sticks over 0:37:30.960 --> 0:37:32.480 the garden, but it's not working. 0:37:32.560 --> 0:37:35.600 So it might as well defecate in Brodie's mouth for 0:37:35.680 --> 0:37:36.799 all the internet to bring. 0:37:37.040 --> 0:37:38.280 The game on that cat. 0:37:38.520 --> 0:37:41.640 Well, your kids get diseased because of that thing, I 0:37:41.719 --> 0:37:42.200 don't know. 0:37:42.400 --> 0:37:46.919 And in the garden they're going to get toxo plasmos yeah, 0:37:47.000 --> 0:37:49.040 not toxic, and the you know what they're going to do, 0:37:49.360 --> 0:37:53.239 They're gonna make risky investments. This is all true. I'm 0:37:53.280 --> 0:37:56.239 not making this up. They're gonna get toxo. They're going 0:37:56.280 --> 0:37:59.440 to make risky investments. They're going to drive too fast, 0:38:00.200 --> 0:38:03.360 they're gonna be too hot headed and too prone to fighting. 0:38:04.600 --> 0:38:05.640 That cat's gotta go. 0:38:06.000 --> 0:38:06.280 Yep. 0:38:06.480 --> 0:38:09.680 It's either that or they lose all their money. Do 0:38:09.760 --> 0:38:12.160 you find them making risky bets with one another already? 0:38:12.200 --> 0:38:14.320 I've noticed some weird behavior lately. 0:38:14.520 --> 0:38:19.279 It's toxo. Or they become a weird cat lady, which 0:38:19.320 --> 0:38:20.520 is also linked to toxo. 0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:21.640 That's not gonna happen. 0:38:21.960 --> 0:38:25.920 Well, No, when you become a weird cat lady, horder. 0:38:27.040 --> 0:38:27.440 Toxo. 0:38:28.520 --> 0:38:30.360 When you become a guy that drives too fast and 0:38:30.400 --> 0:38:33.279 tries to evade arrest and makes bad bets and likes 0:38:33.280 --> 0:38:35.080 going to casinos, toxo. 0:38:36.560 --> 0:38:37.040 Gotcha. 0:38:38.640 --> 0:38:40.160 I'm gonna have to do some research there. 0:38:43.680 --> 0:38:45.480 This guy's describing me to a team. 0:38:47.640 --> 0:38:48.759 That's my problem. 0:38:48.800 --> 0:38:54.320 Moving on, Maggie Hudlow is joining us from Wyoming. Hello, 0:38:54.760 --> 0:38:56.880 what's covered up by a tarp in the background. I've 0:38:56.920 --> 0:38:57.560 been dying to know. 0:38:58.400 --> 0:39:03.480 Oh, that's our straw very patch. We've got a little 0:39:03.480 --> 0:39:07.040 hoop house thing there. We've got another bigger vegetable garden 0:39:07.400 --> 0:39:08.720 up on the other side of the house. 0:39:09.160 --> 0:39:13.239 Are you keeping cold out or pass out? 0:39:14.400 --> 0:39:17.359 Uh? Well, the dogs really like to dig around in there, 0:39:17.840 --> 0:39:22.000 and it's been below freezing the last few nights, so 0:39:22.480 --> 0:39:24.600 little of both. 0:39:24.960 --> 0:39:27.960 Okay, keeping the cat keeping Brody's house cat out of there, 0:39:29.440 --> 0:39:32.480 So give us give us a dispatch. Oh sorry, go ahead, 0:39:33.080 --> 0:39:33.879 we have a slight delay. 0:39:33.880 --> 0:39:38.600 Oh yeah, sorry about that. The uh don't have too 0:39:38.680 --> 0:39:41.200 much trouble with cats with all the dogs running around 0:39:41.239 --> 0:39:41.719 this yard. 0:39:43.680 --> 0:39:48.120 Maggie Hudlow is a colleague of ours here meat Eater, 0:39:48.160 --> 0:39:50.600 a very prolific writer. You can always find her work 0:39:50.640 --> 0:39:52.920 at the meat eater dot com. And Maggie's gonna give 0:39:53.000 --> 0:39:58.480 us the whelming dispatch and lay out some of the 0:39:58.480 --> 0:40:05.640 the aftermath of the incident where individual had struck a 0:40:05.680 --> 0:40:12.040 wolf with a snowmobile and then taped its mouth shut 0:40:12.080 --> 0:40:18.120 and paraded it around town in a very distasteful incident 0:40:18.160 --> 0:40:20.160 that had some far reaching consequences. 0:40:20.920 --> 0:40:27.799 Go ahead, Maggie, Yeah, thanks, Steve. I mean when I 0:40:27.880 --> 0:40:33.480 first heard the news, I had a couple thoughts, and 0:40:34.760 --> 0:40:40.440 it was like, what a thoughtless dumb ass, Like what 0:40:40.520 --> 0:40:45.000 a terrible thing to do. And also the second thought 0:40:45.239 --> 0:40:49.440 was that this is gonna blow up and get just huge, 0:40:49.680 --> 0:40:58.239 and it did immediately, so kind of local repercussions that 0:40:58.280 --> 0:41:06.360 have been not necessarily as publicly news. There have been 0:41:06.840 --> 0:41:10.399 a lot of people you know, connected to Cody through 0:41:10.480 --> 0:41:14.880 family I know, that have been getting death threats. The 0:41:14.920 --> 0:41:18.920 Green River Bar where the incident happened, they've been getting 0:41:19.520 --> 0:41:25.560 you know, threatened, game wardens, people, small businesses in town 0:41:26.480 --> 0:41:31.160 have been getting just like hundreds of one star reviews 0:41:31.280 --> 0:41:38.000 by people they've never met, just angry animal activists, and 0:41:38.880 --> 0:41:46.160 all that has done like these strangers kind of infiltrating 0:41:46.239 --> 0:41:51.560 this really like close knit small town. It's just made 0:41:51.640 --> 0:41:55.960 people want to side with Cody more than anything because 0:41:56.000 --> 0:41:59.640 they know him as a person and he's never you know, 0:42:00.000 --> 0:42:04.400 threatened to kill them or their family or anything. So 0:42:05.160 --> 0:42:10.359 what's happened is this like massive polarization, and you have 0:42:11.120 --> 0:42:14.719 these animal rights activists that want something to happen and 0:42:14.800 --> 0:42:19.080 are doing it in the worst way possible. And then 0:42:19.400 --> 0:42:27.560 you have this established culture of hate against predators in 0:42:27.600 --> 0:42:33.000 Wyoming that is like already existed, but now it's had 0:42:33.120 --> 0:42:40.799 this international spotlight shown on it, and essentially right now 0:42:40.840 --> 0:42:43.919 it's like you're either on this side or you're on 0:42:43.920 --> 0:42:47.400 this side, you're either for animal rights or you're for 0:42:47.719 --> 0:42:51.919 killing wolves. And I think we need to have more 0:42:52.000 --> 0:42:55.880 conversations that meet a little bit more in the middle, 0:42:56.480 --> 0:43:01.280 Like we need predator management in this area is a 0:43:01.360 --> 0:43:05.279 huge part of this community. We also are right in 0:43:05.320 --> 0:43:08.920 the middle of migration corridors for mule deer, for antelope. 0:43:09.800 --> 0:43:12.960 We have huge elk populations. There's elk feed grounds all 0:43:13.000 --> 0:43:19.600 around us. I think preitor management is important, but I 0:43:19.600 --> 0:43:23.800 think it's also really important that we look at creating 0:43:23.880 --> 0:43:26.440 legislation that makes it ethical. 0:43:30.520 --> 0:43:30.919 Right on. 0:43:31.239 --> 0:43:35.959 Yeah, do you can you elaborate on that last point 0:43:35.960 --> 0:43:39.560 a little bit? That was some of the I think 0:43:39.600 --> 0:43:42.560 some of the frustration that happened on this issue is 0:43:43.160 --> 0:43:47.800 someone did something that was so egregious, and I'll remind people, 0:43:48.920 --> 0:43:51.920 I think this gets a little bit lost. This was 0:43:52.960 --> 0:43:57.480 hitting a wolf of the snowmobil. This is running down 0:43:57.520 --> 0:44:05.000 an animal hitting with a snowmobil. Yes, the individual hunts 0:44:05.480 --> 0:44:09.799 does some hunting, but this is a snowbill strike and 0:44:09.840 --> 0:44:14.600 taking a wounded animal, taping it up and bringing it 0:44:14.640 --> 0:44:18.319 to a bar. And I think I sensed early on 0:44:18.440 --> 0:44:22.880 a lot of frustration from outsiders looking at this issue, 0:44:22.880 --> 0:44:29.839 being how could you do that in the criminality of 0:44:29.880 --> 0:44:34.200 it was illegal possession of wildlife, which would be the 0:44:34.239 --> 0:44:38.319 same thing is if you went and caught a that 0:44:38.480 --> 0:44:44.080 you went and caught a baby rabbit and raised it 0:44:44.120 --> 0:44:47.520 as your own, you would be guilty of the same crime, 0:44:48.080 --> 0:44:51.520 illegal possession of wildlife. So when you talk about legislation, 0:44:51.680 --> 0:44:55.440 what I mean, can you comment on that? Am I 0:44:55.680 --> 0:44:57.440 going in the wrong direction on this and trying to 0:44:57.480 --> 0:44:58.680 understand what you're saying? 0:44:58.800 --> 0:45:02.280 Maggie, No, No, you're good And I think so wolves 0:45:02.280 --> 0:45:06.080 are you know, considered predators, so they just don't have 0:45:06.360 --> 0:45:13.600 any sort of protections beyond that. And that's sort of 0:45:14.800 --> 0:45:19.680 the sticky thing about the situation is that everyone wanted 0:45:19.719 --> 0:45:24.640 to see Cody prosecuted more than just that small fine, 0:45:25.200 --> 0:45:29.200 and there is nothing legally set in the state that 0:45:29.280 --> 0:45:34.120 he technically did that he can be taken to court 0:45:34.160 --> 0:45:39.640 for or fined for. And that's where the you know, 0:45:39.719 --> 0:45:43.600 the state legislation itself needs to change. 0:45:43.760 --> 0:45:46.120 So, Maggie, are you getting at that? 0:45:46.560 --> 0:45:52.400 Like in Wyoming, wolves are not managed as well in 0:45:52.480 --> 0:45:55.800 most of the state, they're not managed as a game animal, 0:45:55.920 --> 0:45:59.399 so it's like open season all your long, no bag 0:45:59.440 --> 0:46:05.360 limits outside of a small area in northwestern Wyoming. 0:46:08.160 --> 0:46:11.759 Small Well not when. 0:46:13.360 --> 0:46:15.400 I think it's ninety of the state. 0:46:15.560 --> 0:46:18.279 Okay, sorry, I thought it was more significent. So but 0:46:18.280 --> 0:46:20.279 but just like a little background for people listening. When 0:46:20.320 --> 0:46:24.920 when wolves were delisted, different states took different approaches. In 0:46:24.960 --> 0:46:33.960 Wyoming in some respects, the delisting process was delayed by 0:46:35.040 --> 0:46:38.240 negotiations with Wyoming about how Wyoming what kind of management 0:46:38.280 --> 0:46:41.000 plan Wyoming wanted to do, and Wyoming like really stuck 0:46:41.080 --> 0:46:45.200 to its guns and push for a management plan in 0:46:45.239 --> 0:46:48.040 which they would have a area where wolves would be 0:46:48.080 --> 0:46:50.680 managed as a game animal, and they would have an 0:46:50.719 --> 0:46:53.839 area where wolves would be managed as basically the same 0:46:53.880 --> 0:46:56.200 way that virtually all states managed. 0:46:55.960 --> 0:46:59.640 Coyots as vermin as a. 0:46:59.160 --> 0:47:03.400 Non game whatever, the same way for coyotes. You know, 0:47:03.560 --> 0:47:07.080 most states have I think this is true. Most states 0:47:07.120 --> 0:47:09.440 have no close seasons on coyotes, right, And if there's 0:47:09.480 --> 0:47:11.920 a coyote molesting your livestock whatever, you don't even need 0:47:11.960 --> 0:47:13.799 to tell anybody about it if you were to kill 0:47:13.840 --> 0:47:21.080 a coyote. So Wyoming was emphatic about arriving at in 0:47:21.719 --> 0:47:25.920 that position, and it differs from the management approach taken 0:47:26.040 --> 0:47:29.080 in Idaho and the management approach taken in Montana where 0:47:29.120 --> 0:47:34.720 they established quota systems around the state and regulatory measures 0:47:34.760 --> 0:47:37.960 around those states. So it's just a difference in the approach. 0:47:39.600 --> 0:47:44.920 Yeah, and the concept of running down wolves on a 0:47:44.960 --> 0:47:50.200 snow machine, that's something that's been happening here for a 0:47:50.280 --> 0:47:56.560 long time. I'm called oh in coyotes for sure. Like 0:47:56.840 --> 0:47:59.560 I was called a tree hug and hippie growing up. 0:47:59.600 --> 0:48:02.320 When I tell my classmates I thought that was wrong 0:48:03.000 --> 0:48:04.640 or a bad thing to do. I was like, if 0:48:04.640 --> 0:48:07.160 you want to shoot them, why don't you just shoot them? Like, 0:48:07.160 --> 0:48:09.000 why do you got to run them until they die? 0:48:09.560 --> 0:48:12.680 I don't think that's right. And because I would say 0:48:12.680 --> 0:48:15.920 that I was a tree hugget and hippie. But you know, 0:48:16.480 --> 0:48:19.520 I think you can be a sportsman and believe in 0:48:19.640 --> 0:48:23.840 like ethical predator management. And that's what I would like 0:48:23.920 --> 0:48:27.759 to see if there's any light in this situation that 0:48:27.840 --> 0:48:29.480 it just brings more of that. 0:48:30.840 --> 0:48:36.360 Yeah, because I think amongst the pro predator management crowd, 0:48:37.560 --> 0:48:41.480 even the pro predator eradication crowd, you would see a 0:48:41.560 --> 0:48:50.800 division in getting the job done and playing with the animal, right, right. 0:48:50.600 --> 0:48:52.160 Even if you're going to run it over, just run 0:48:52.200 --> 0:48:52.520 it over. 0:48:52.840 --> 0:48:57.600 Kill it if you're pro as in a professional, you're 0:48:57.600 --> 0:49:01.279 doing things quickly and efficiently doing the job. 0:49:02.040 --> 0:49:07.960 I don't think any hunter who like says that they're 0:49:08.000 --> 0:49:13.080 a hunter wants to see a prolonged death on it, right. 0:49:13.600 --> 0:49:16.200 We like pride ourselves on the fact that one shot, 0:49:16.239 --> 0:49:19.840 one kill or yeah, you know, in general, I'll. 0:49:20.160 --> 0:49:25.719 Just totally honest, like my hunting mentor uh. He was 0:49:26.160 --> 0:49:29.319 in a time where coyote pelts were worth a ton 0:49:29.360 --> 0:49:33.719 of money, and he used to tell me stories over 0:49:33.760 --> 0:49:42.239 and over again about the the success of his coyote 0:49:42.239 --> 0:49:45.040 season was based on how many snowsuits he had to 0:49:45.160 --> 0:49:50.440 replace because instead of shooting a coyote, he'd get up 0:49:50.440 --> 0:49:53.480 alongside of him on a snowmobile and whack him on 0:49:53.480 --> 0:49:55.279 the head with the club so he didn't have to 0:49:55.320 --> 0:49:56.120 stitch up a hole. 0:49:57.400 --> 0:50:00.000 But that's still just that. But it's a dead coyote, 0:50:00.160 --> 0:50:01.680 that's dispatching it right away. 0:50:01.719 --> 0:50:02.960 I mean, but that that. 0:50:03.239 --> 0:50:07.000 Dog watch into the leg on his snow snowsuit and 0:50:07.000 --> 0:50:08.239 they'd whack it on the head. 0:50:08.440 --> 0:50:08.960 Huh. 0:50:09.040 --> 0:50:11.279 Yeah, that's one of those things that you hear and 0:50:12.080 --> 0:50:15.480 you don't immediately think about what uh And I almost 0:50:15.480 --> 0:50:17.359 hesitate to say this but what a level of. 0:50:20.600 --> 0:50:20.719 Uh. 0:50:22.880 --> 0:50:26.560 That's a lot of coordination athleticism. 0:50:26.920 --> 0:50:29.080 These are old snowmobiles. 0:50:28.320 --> 0:50:32.400 Too, Maggie, I want to real quick calendar you can 0:50:32.440 --> 0:50:35.279 take over. I want to tell you that one of 0:50:35.160 --> 0:50:39.120 the interesting things about being alive today is it possible 0:50:39.160 --> 0:50:44.120 to be a tree hugging hippie and a savage redneck 0:50:45.040 --> 0:50:47.759 all at the same time. It depends on who I 0:50:47.840 --> 0:50:51.920 feel that, it depends on who's doing the looking. I 0:50:51.960 --> 0:50:55.080 think that Einstein got into that with theory of relativity 0:50:55.560 --> 0:50:57.400 and you say like, well, how fast is it going? Well, 0:50:57.400 --> 0:51:00.439 it depends on where you're looking at it from. So yeah, 0:51:00.480 --> 0:51:04.440 you're a you're a like a you're a bloodthirsty redneck 0:51:05.600 --> 0:51:06.760 in a tree hugging hippie. 0:51:08.280 --> 0:51:08.640 Welcome. 0:51:09.360 --> 0:51:11.520 Yeah. Never been more clearly designed. 0:51:11.800 --> 0:51:12.320 Yeah. 0:51:12.360 --> 0:51:15.600 Well, the conversation with a bunch of ranchers over the 0:51:15.680 --> 0:51:19.439 years who makes some comment about environmentalists and I'm looking 0:51:19.480 --> 0:51:23.920 at their place and I'm like, well, aren't you a 0:51:23.920 --> 0:51:28.160 lot of environment I'm like, you seem to be doing 0:51:28.560 --> 0:51:30.240 a lot of things good for the environment. 0:51:30.320 --> 0:51:30.520 Here. 0:51:32.120 --> 0:51:37.600 One of my favorite UH stories from this podcast is 0:51:37.640 --> 0:51:40.560 we had a guy on years ago that that worked 0:51:40.560 --> 0:51:48.359 on the the nutrient eradication program in Chesapeake Bay, and 0:51:48.400 --> 0:51:51.160 in order to do the nutrio eradication program, they had 0:51:51.200 --> 0:51:55.600 to get all private landowners to participate, and they had 0:51:55.640 --> 0:51:57.719 one big landowner. It was just a holdout, so they 0:51:57.760 --> 0:52:00.120 couldn't finish killing all the nutrio. And he had a 0:52:00.160 --> 0:52:03.800 real just kind of anti getting along, yeah, anti. He 0:52:03.840 --> 0:52:06.680 had an anti government perspective and kind of an anti 0:52:06.840 --> 0:52:11.480 environmentalist perspective. And eventually they become friends with them, and 0:52:11.600 --> 0:52:14.880 he goes out to this guy's place and he realizes 0:52:14.920 --> 0:52:20.719 the guy just loves loves wildlife, and then walking around 0:52:20.800 --> 0:52:22.640 his place, he's like, look at that, look at that, 0:52:22.880 --> 0:52:26.120 look at that tree, look at this, and he looks 0:52:26.120 --> 0:52:29.759 at the federal guy. He goes, see what I'm talking about. 0:52:30.680 --> 0:52:36.839 It's a gee damn menagerie. And he realized, like, we're 0:52:36.880 --> 0:52:42.640 like closer than I thought, you know what I mean? Anyhow, 0:52:44.080 --> 0:52:47.200 anything else, Maggie, you want to add. 0:52:48.040 --> 0:52:52.160 I mean at the moment, no, I'll stick around and 0:52:52.920 --> 0:52:58.000 chime in when I see fit. But it's I just, uh, 0:52:58.480 --> 0:53:03.200 I want both sides of situations like this to just 0:53:03.360 --> 0:53:09.320 think about the the best way to make change. And uh, 0:53:09.680 --> 0:53:12.800 you know, I just I feel like my mom talking 0:53:12.800 --> 0:53:15.839 to myself when I'm in like high school, Like, think 0:53:15.880 --> 0:53:19.080 about your actions, Maggie Rose, think about how your actions 0:53:19.120 --> 0:53:22.040 impact other people, you know. And I just wish more 0:53:22.040 --> 0:53:26.160 people people were told that maybe they needed to be reminded, 0:53:26.719 --> 0:53:30.279 like don't mess with small businesses that have nothing to 0:53:30.280 --> 0:53:35.000 do with this situation. Don't give people death threats, Like 0:53:35.080 --> 0:53:38.080 what do you think that's going to accomplish? So yeah, 0:53:38.360 --> 0:53:39.480 think about your actions. 0:53:39.920 --> 0:53:44.359 You're not dealing with the rational people for the most 0:53:44.360 --> 0:53:46.480 part in that in that scenario. 0:53:47.320 --> 0:53:50.120 So guys, give me the howl perspective on this, because 0:53:50.120 --> 0:53:55.880 it's a it's you know, it's it's it's a thorny 0:53:55.920 --> 0:53:57.440 one for everyone. 0:53:57.840 --> 0:54:01.680 We got involved are about it. We were at Mile 0:54:01.760 --> 0:54:07.320 High Expo in Denver. I was at dinner. I almost 0:54:07.320 --> 0:54:09.600 flipped my table over and I'll explain why. I was 0:54:09.600 --> 0:54:12.880 just pissed off that this happened, like right now, really, 0:54:12.920 --> 0:54:16.400 this happened in twenty twenty four in the midst of 0:54:16.920 --> 0:54:19.640 mountain lion bands, outlying bands and all this stuff that's 0:54:19.680 --> 0:54:21.600 going on. This is going to blow up, This is 0:54:21.640 --> 0:54:25.839 going to look bad, this is gonna this is really 0:54:25.840 --> 0:54:28.680 going to boost the the the anti Hunters in their 0:54:28.760 --> 0:54:30.759 in their campaign because it's. 0:54:30.680 --> 0:54:32.000 He's going to be the poster child. 0:54:32.120 --> 0:54:34.879 Code became the poster child for their Yeah what they're 0:54:34.880 --> 0:54:36.040 trying to push. 0:54:36.239 --> 0:54:39.640 Yeah, So we created I guess you can call it 0:54:39.680 --> 0:54:42.200 an action. It was really a sign on letter to 0:54:42.200 --> 0:54:47.160 get as many orgs, companies UH to contemn the action. Right. 0:54:47.440 --> 0:54:50.239 We got about seventy, which was great. I think we 0:54:50.239 --> 0:54:52.160 were the only ones that really even talk about it, 0:54:52.200 --> 0:54:54.160 like as far as a national org, which I was 0:54:55.040 --> 0:54:57.640 disappointed in. You know, we should we should come out 0:54:57.719 --> 0:54:59.080 in opposition to this. 0:54:59.239 --> 0:54:59.879 Yeah, it's read. 0:55:00.680 --> 0:55:03.960 Oh man, it's red hot, and and we took some heat. 0:55:04.160 --> 0:55:06.080 I run the social media, so I was kind of 0:55:06.080 --> 0:55:09.640 seeing it, you know, from from people that I knew, 0:55:09.680 --> 0:55:13.040 and I'm like, hey, come on, we're Anni hunters now, 0:55:13.440 --> 0:55:15.759 I mean, because we're condemning this action, Like that's that's 0:55:15.800 --> 0:55:19.520 the level it went to. Well, you know, where is 0:55:19.520 --> 0:55:21.080 this gonna go? You're kind of what do you what 0:55:21.160 --> 0:55:24.279 are you saying we should change legislation or or whatnot? No, 0:55:24.600 --> 0:55:27.719 you shouldn't be able to torture an animal. This This 0:55:27.800 --> 0:55:31.239 guy could have ran it, over ran the wolf, over 0:55:32.560 --> 0:55:35.839 tied it to a tree for five days, came back 0:55:35.880 --> 0:55:38.200 five days later and then killed it. It would have 0:55:38.200 --> 0:55:41.680 been fine, no penalty because he didn't transport the animal. 0:55:41.880 --> 0:55:44.319 Oh, that would have been legally permissible. 0:55:44.800 --> 0:55:46.959 In that area. So in the in the vermin area 0:55:47.040 --> 0:55:48.040 that that Maggie was. 0:55:47.960 --> 0:55:50.279 Talking, is it predator managment zone? 0:55:50.360 --> 0:55:52.640 Is it called yeah, the predator man The other zone, 0:55:52.680 --> 0:55:55.000 which is which is funny, is called the trophy zone. 0:55:55.680 --> 0:55:59.400 So let's keep where there are rules. That's called the 0:55:59.400 --> 0:56:02.040 trophy zone. It's Wyoming's just a you know, it's a 0:56:02.040 --> 0:56:06.960 different place. So so we got involved. And then one 0:56:07.040 --> 0:56:08.920 of the things we do is, you know, we're not 0:56:09.040 --> 0:56:11.839 we're not from Wyoming. We're not an organization that's based 0:56:11.840 --> 0:56:16.560 in Wyoming. I reached out to organizations in Wyoming, say hey, 0:56:16.600 --> 0:56:19.759 who's who's taken care of this? Does anybody? Does anybody care? 0:56:19.840 --> 0:56:23.480 Is anybody willing to you know, get involved? And uh, 0:56:23.840 --> 0:56:27.279 and it was Jess Johnson with Wyoming Wildlife Federation And 0:56:27.320 --> 0:56:31.160 she's kind of taken the lead on this. We got 0:56:31.200 --> 0:56:36.040 her back as far as what she's gonna need, podcasts, 0:56:37.000 --> 0:56:40.040 support from in state or odd of state, support from 0:56:40.920 --> 0:56:43.279 industry partners that we have who can, who can kind 0:56:43.320 --> 0:56:46.960 of lend the support that she's gonna need, and and 0:56:47.040 --> 0:56:51.120 she's working on what's gonna work is is there anything 0:56:51.160 --> 0:56:54.279 in legislation? She realizes that's really sticky because this is 0:56:54.320 --> 0:56:59.360 a this is a situation here where it's not normal, 0:56:59.480 --> 0:57:01.400 you know what I mean? What happened? So how do 0:57:01.440 --> 0:57:04.319 you really legislate kind of morality? Really? 0:57:04.440 --> 0:57:14.600 And how do you draw legislation around uh, totally individual, 0:57:15.200 --> 0:57:19.360 once in a lifetime outlandish set of actions on one 0:57:19.520 --> 0:57:21.280 person's behalf right, you know? 0:57:21.720 --> 0:57:28.000 So I don't know if it was. There's some things 0:57:28.400 --> 0:57:31.640 there's I think it's happened before, maybe not with this guy, 0:57:31.680 --> 0:57:34.480 but it happens. It has happened before, things like this. 0:57:34.680 --> 0:57:38.080 Maybe not as egregious as this particular thing, but things 0:57:38.120 --> 0:57:43.800 happened that shouldn't happen if you're again an ethical hunter. 0:57:44.720 --> 0:57:46.640 But what but what did it? But what did it do? 0:57:46.840 --> 0:57:48.720 We can we can talk about that. So the action 0:57:48.920 --> 0:57:53.080 was terrible and what did it do? So he became 0:57:53.520 --> 0:57:55.400 the guy who did this? I kind of I realized 0:57:55.440 --> 0:57:56.800 he has a family and all that. I don't like 0:57:56.840 --> 0:57:59.080 really saying his name. I'm just kind of talking about 0:57:59.120 --> 0:58:03.840 the incident. But cats aren't trophies. Who is the the 0:58:03.920 --> 0:58:07.000 anti hunting organization in Colorado that's leading the charge to 0:58:07.080 --> 0:58:12.960 ban trophy hunting mountain lions, Bobcats. His face is plastered 0:58:12.960 --> 0:58:15.720 around their website. His face is plastered around their social media. 0:58:17.200 --> 0:58:19.760 The guy was also he's hunted lions, so they have 0:58:19.800 --> 0:58:22.000 pictures of him with lions, and they're like, this is 0:58:22.040 --> 0:58:23.520 why we need to ban this because we. 0:58:23.520 --> 0:58:24.320 Need to protect them. 0:58:24.400 --> 0:58:27.600 Yeah, we need to protect them from from these evil hunters. 0:58:27.640 --> 0:58:33.000 And this is Yeah, everybody becomes this guy automatically by 0:58:33.040 --> 0:58:36.560 association because we're all hunters, because we're we all engage 0:58:36.560 --> 0:58:41.439 in hunting. Now we are this bloodthirsty hate animals. We don't, 0:58:42.360 --> 0:58:45.240 you know, we willy nilly go out there and shoot crap. 0:58:45.280 --> 0:58:48.200 And you know, that's that's the picture they want to paint. 0:58:48.640 --> 0:58:50.280 You know, it's part of what they do. They deal 0:58:50.280 --> 0:58:52.320 in the eye of public perception all the time. 0:58:52.440 --> 0:58:54.280 It was a nightmare. It's a nightmare for us. It's 0:58:54.280 --> 0:58:59.640 a nightmare for the people who are in the trenches fighting, because, man, 0:58:59.640 --> 0:59:01.439 you get a picture of something, you know how it works. 0:59:01.480 --> 0:59:03.400 I mean, you can't talk your way out of that. 0:59:03.920 --> 0:59:05.560 You know, maybe if you have five hours and you 0:59:05.600 --> 0:59:07.680 really spend it with the person and explain, you know, 0:59:07.760 --> 0:59:10.000 these things we're talking about, But we don't get that chance, 0:59:10.080 --> 0:59:14.360 right social media on all the all the anna hunting, 0:59:16.480 --> 0:59:19.280 you know, websites or whatever. He's the poster boy, and 0:59:19.280 --> 0:59:21.440 you can see publicly how much money they're raising. It's 0:59:21.440 --> 0:59:23.680 in the billions. We talked a little bit earlier about 0:59:23.680 --> 0:59:27.000 the biker rally and that thing that happened. I think 0:59:27.040 --> 0:59:29.840 that was one hundred and thirty two thousand dollars or something. 0:59:30.320 --> 0:59:34.560 It's just it's it's unfortunate that that happened. It's unfortunate 0:59:34.600 --> 0:59:38.800 that there are some people who aren't aware of themselves 0:59:39.680 --> 0:59:46.080 their actions. Obviously somebody in Daniel, Wyoming. The video got 0:59:46.080 --> 0:59:47.440 out somehow. I don't know how it got out. I 0:59:47.440 --> 0:59:50.240 don't know who got a hold of it. But those 0:59:50.240 --> 0:59:52.840 things they don't do us any good. And and you know, 0:59:52.920 --> 0:59:56.080 both both morally, it was wrong. It was wrong if 0:59:56.120 --> 0:59:58.120 nobody even knew about it was wrong if you know, 0:59:58.280 --> 1:00:00.560 if it wasn't on video, but it was on video, 1:00:00.600 --> 1:00:02.800 and now it's a now it's a completely different, you know, 1:00:02.960 --> 1:00:05.920 completely different story. But that kind of stuff is a 1:00:05.920 --> 1:00:09.919 big struggle. It's a big, big struggle it doesn't help 1:00:09.960 --> 1:00:13.040 us at all. So so anyway, we don't know what 1:00:13.080 --> 1:00:15.200 the strategy is going to be, We don't know what 1:00:15.280 --> 1:00:18.360 the if there is going to be legislation or whatnot. 1:00:18.560 --> 1:00:20.800 Jess is working on that. We trust her to, uh 1:00:21.680 --> 1:00:25.520 to get that ironed out. And Maggie, are you do 1:00:25.560 --> 1:00:27.440 you talk to Jess at all about Yeah? You do? 1:00:27.560 --> 1:00:31.040 Okay, Oh, sorry, I was not into my mom in 1:00:31.080 --> 1:00:33.479 the background, but yeah, I'm actually going to Jess's house 1:00:33.520 --> 1:00:36.160 this weekend, so I was looking forward to talking to 1:00:36.200 --> 1:00:36.840 her about this. 1:00:37.200 --> 1:00:41.200 Yeah, so we're having a meeting with her next week. 1:00:41.600 --> 1:00:45.560 Maybe we'll invite you to that on kind of strategy 1:00:45.800 --> 1:00:49.480 on this whole thing. So well, no, that sounds like 1:00:49.520 --> 1:00:50.880 you're right, yeah, yeah, cool. 1:00:51.040 --> 1:00:56.120 Do you think like addressing it more and bringing it 1:00:56.200 --> 1:01:00.520 back up has the potential to backfire and just like 1:01:01.000 --> 1:01:05.480 keeping it like other than condemning it, right, which, what 1:01:05.600 --> 1:01:09.760 else can you do if you're like, oh, if you 1:01:09.880 --> 1:01:13.520 keep raising it up to the top of the discussion, 1:01:13.800 --> 1:01:15.600 is that just helping the other side? 1:01:16.040 --> 1:01:18.480 It's a good question. I think it depends on how 1:01:18.520 --> 1:01:22.040 we how we tackle it, what we say, what the 1:01:22.120 --> 1:01:26.240 results are going to be, and and honestly, if we 1:01:26.360 --> 1:01:28.560 market it or not. I think it's a good thing. 1:01:29.640 --> 1:01:33.520 All right. I'll give you example. We we condemned this, 1:01:33.800 --> 1:01:35.280 We said a lot about it. I made a few 1:01:35.320 --> 1:01:41.320 videos on it. People reached out to Howl and said, 1:01:42.840 --> 1:01:44.480 this is the first time I've ever heard hunters talk 1:01:44.560 --> 1:01:49.160 like this, first time I've heard hunters say this was 1:01:49.200 --> 1:01:53.480 a action. Yeah, these are anti hunters. I think that's 1:01:53.560 --> 1:01:55.560 kind of how she was describing herself. There's a there's 1:01:55.600 --> 1:01:58.800 a few people she was impressed. She said, I feel 1:01:58.800 --> 1:02:00.000 like I could sit at the same table as you 1:02:00.040 --> 1:02:04.440 and at least have a conversation. The more people we 1:02:04.520 --> 1:02:08.000 reach like that, the better. Certainly, kind of like what 1:02:08.040 --> 1:02:10.960 Steve was saying earlier, you finally have a lot, You 1:02:11.040 --> 1:02:12.560 have a lot more in common with people when you 1:02:12.640 --> 1:02:16.440 actually sit down and have conversations and learn about their life. 1:02:16.480 --> 1:02:22.120 And that's it's interesting because like it's like something that's 1:02:22.520 --> 1:02:30.120 very obviously immoral and egregious, but when someone poaches an elk, 1:02:31.320 --> 1:02:33.880 you don't get the same you know what I mean. 1:02:34.000 --> 1:02:35.520 But it's illegal and they get fined. 1:02:38.640 --> 1:02:42.560 It's like we don't get the same credit for condemning 1:02:42.600 --> 1:02:43.440 that action. 1:02:43.680 --> 1:02:44.320 You know what I mean. 1:02:44.360 --> 1:02:46.720 It's it's just that's because we're all poachers. You didn't 1:02:46.720 --> 1:02:48.480 know that, right. 1:02:48.000 --> 1:02:51.680 Well, the the reality is like hunters do have a 1:02:51.760 --> 1:02:57.280 very long legacy of regulating hunters, right, this would be 1:02:58.480 --> 1:02:59.480 more of the same. 1:02:59.520 --> 1:03:01.720 But it's not talked about enough. That's the problem. 1:03:02.080 --> 1:03:04.680 And or is it talked about all the time and 1:03:04.720 --> 1:03:05.560 it's just white noise. 1:03:05.880 --> 1:03:08.640 It's talked about all the time between hunters. It's not great. 1:03:08.760 --> 1:03:13.480 I mean, we're not going to we are constantly constantly 1:03:13.520 --> 1:03:17.000 being like, here's somebody who've screwed up. Here's somebody who 1:03:17.400 --> 1:03:21.880 purposely and intentionally did something very wrong. This is how 1:03:21.880 --> 1:03:22.840 you got it, you know. 1:03:23.080 --> 1:03:26.160 And I think you have a positive effect. Mediator has 1:03:26.200 --> 1:03:30.440 a positive effect on the non hunting public. Now, if 1:03:30.440 --> 1:03:33.200 you hadn't said those things over the years, I don't 1:03:33.200 --> 1:03:34.680 know where we would be. Where would we be. 1:03:36.080 --> 1:03:38.120 We'll look at the first, not the first. One of 1:03:38.160 --> 1:03:46.000 the biggest hunting celebrity influencers was Theodore Roosevelt, who that's it, right, 1:03:48.720 --> 1:03:52.400 Here's a big hunting celebrity influencer named Theodore Roosevelt who 1:03:52.520 --> 1:03:56.040 wrote about hunting, wrote whole books about hunting, celebrated hunting, 1:03:56.120 --> 1:04:03.480 loved hunting, promoted hunting of people interested in hunting. But 1:04:03.560 --> 1:04:06.680 what did he do? He would say, how is it 1:04:06.800 --> 1:04:11.760 that it's legal to go and kill thousands of shore 1:04:11.800 --> 1:04:16.480 birds to the point where you're eliminating them off of 1:04:16.840 --> 1:04:23.360 entire nesting grounds? Right? Did people go, you're just playing 1:04:23.360 --> 1:04:27.280 into the hands of the anti hunters, probably a couple 1:04:28.400 --> 1:04:31.440 or was he saying, no, you're you're going to drive 1:04:33.120 --> 1:04:36.760 you know, you're driving these things to extinction. All hunting 1:04:36.800 --> 1:04:40.000 is not the same. There's a way to go about it. 1:04:40.440 --> 1:04:44.280 There's like a responsible way to go about it that 1:04:44.480 --> 1:04:49.560 has sustainability in mind and in respect for the restours. 1:04:49.600 --> 1:04:51.040 And there's the way to go about it where you're 1:04:51.080 --> 1:04:52.120 just going to kind of ruin. 1:04:51.960 --> 1:04:57.400 The whole thing. Yeah, conservations from eradication, you know, couldn't serve. 1:04:57.600 --> 1:05:03.240 Yeah, you know, so it's not I mean. Leopold, another 1:05:03.280 --> 1:05:08.960 great hunting influencer, right celebrated hunting, wrote about hunting, got 1:05:09.000 --> 1:05:12.120 people into it. Also had a lot to say about 1:05:12.160 --> 1:05:15.520 some things we do that aren't that great, including things 1:05:15.520 --> 1:05:16.840 that some hunters do that aren't that great. 1:05:16.920 --> 1:05:20.200 Sure, sure, ye, Well to that whole point, like my 1:05:20.680 --> 1:05:22.800 whole thing is, or our whole thing is, really is 1:05:23.960 --> 1:05:26.360 do you want policy to be put in place by 1:05:26.400 --> 1:05:31.520 the squeaky wheels of anti hunting, or would you rather 1:05:32.480 --> 1:05:36.000 the decision makers hear from the hunters and have policy 1:05:36.040 --> 1:05:37.880 be put in place guided by us. 1:05:38.120 --> 1:05:41.280 Yeah, that's one of the things that's come out of 1:05:43.480 --> 1:05:46.280 That's one of the things that over the years has 1:05:46.400 --> 1:05:50.320 come out of trapping regulation is you've seen a lot 1:05:50.360 --> 1:05:56.160 of self policing over the years. Well, I shouldn't just 1:05:56.200 --> 1:06:00.000 point that one out. I will quickly on move on 1:06:00.080 --> 1:06:02.760 another one. The amount of self policing you've seen from 1:06:03.040 --> 1:06:08.200 trappers over the years about best best practices to avoid 1:06:08.240 --> 1:06:10.800 conflict with dogs, Right, you've seen a lot of self pleasing. 1:06:10.880 --> 1:06:15.400 Mean they're saying we could wait, not do anything and 1:06:15.480 --> 1:06:18.880 have a total trap band yep, or we could find 1:06:18.880 --> 1:06:21.560 a way that like, how do we look at how 1:06:21.640 --> 1:06:25.080 do we look at potential areas of conflict and write 1:06:25.080 --> 1:06:27.400 these rules up in the way that lets us continue 1:06:27.440 --> 1:06:30.440 to do what we do and eliminate conflict because it's 1:06:30.440 --> 1:06:33.000 one of the other. We either do things where there's 1:06:33.160 --> 1:06:38.240 zero regulations, no setbacks, no set restrictions, and then we 1:06:38.320 --> 1:06:41.120 wait until you can't do anything, or we find a 1:06:41.160 --> 1:06:45.840 way to ease the tension by taking some small steps 1:06:45.880 --> 1:06:49.320 that we can articulate from an educated perspective about how 1:06:49.360 --> 1:06:53.560 we could go about our business and not cause trouble. 1:06:53.760 --> 1:06:56.760 You see it in the fishing industry right, self plicing 1:06:56.800 --> 1:06:59.360 in the fishing industry. And a famous case would be, 1:07:00.600 --> 1:07:05.360 uh with mountain lions. You talk to anyone involved in 1:07:05.360 --> 1:07:09.920 the history of mountain lion, it's like the first people 1:07:11.000 --> 1:07:14.200 to come forward on mountainland regulations or mountainland hunters yep. 1:07:15.360 --> 1:07:16.400 And that's how it should be. 1:07:16.720 --> 1:07:18.320 I mean they were smart. 1:07:18.520 --> 1:07:22.160 Yeah, yeah, because you want to keep something around to 1:07:22.280 --> 1:07:25.400 continue to do it. Would you rather go hunting once 1:07:25.440 --> 1:07:26.080 every three. 1:07:25.960 --> 1:07:27.640 Years or never again? 1:07:28.120 --> 1:07:29.840 You know, so you think about it, like you know, 1:07:29.880 --> 1:07:34.240 from that perspective, everybody always cares about what's seemingly important 1:07:34.280 --> 1:07:37.600 to them. Sure, so you know think about it that 1:07:37.600 --> 1:07:41.480 that's that's the reality of it. If hundreds of anti 1:07:41.560 --> 1:07:43.560 hunters get what they want, they're going to wave their 1:07:43.600 --> 1:07:46.040 magic wand and get rid of hunting completely. You know, 1:07:46.080 --> 1:07:49.040 they're not just going for one thing, They're going for 1:07:49.120 --> 1:07:49.439 it all. 1:07:49.640 --> 1:07:50.160 Eventually. 1:07:51.080 --> 1:07:55.840 If you picture the private conversations I have, the private 1:07:55.840 --> 1:07:58.520 conversations are, uh, we're going. 1:07:58.480 --> 1:07:59.320 To do away with it all. 1:08:00.400 --> 1:08:02.360 When this happened, I was like, I saw a guy 1:08:02.440 --> 1:08:02.720 like this. 1:08:03.520 --> 1:08:06.520 Yeah, But the funny thing is maybe they just played 1:08:06.600 --> 1:08:09.280 right into our The funny thing about the anti hunting 1:08:09.480 --> 1:08:12.920 angle is they're not using this to get rid of 1:08:12.960 --> 1:08:16.679 wolf hunting in Wyoming because they know that will never happen. 1:08:16.720 --> 1:08:19.600 They're using it in places like Colorado. 1:08:19.640 --> 1:08:21.120 They have no foothold in Wyoming. 1:08:21.120 --> 1:08:22.080 Like yeah, and. 1:08:22.040 --> 1:08:24.160 That's why, I mean, it's this thing that has happened 1:08:24.439 --> 1:08:25.679 is probably not. 1:08:25.680 --> 1:08:28.240 Going to change how wolves are managed, and. 1:08:28.600 --> 1:08:31.719 Not in Wyoming, you know, no, definitely not in Wyoming. 1:08:31.840 --> 1:08:32.920 Good effect everywhere else. 1:08:32.960 --> 1:08:37.559 And you know, you're talking about the private conversation last year, 1:08:37.640 --> 1:08:40.240 two years ago, it came back. Now it's a different initiative. 1:08:40.680 --> 1:08:44.000 It's not really private anymore. So it was IP three 1:08:44.240 --> 1:08:46.639 I think in three IP three in Oregon or that one. 1:08:46.640 --> 1:08:48.120 They kind of did away with that. Now it's going 1:08:48.160 --> 1:08:51.600 to be IP twenty eight. It's a is that the 1:08:52.600 --> 1:08:55.120 no it's in everything band, it's it's. 1:08:55.000 --> 1:09:01.160 Fishing, Yeah, like nails. 1:09:01.240 --> 1:09:02.360 Yeah, that's how bad it is. 1:09:02.400 --> 1:09:04.719 Well, that's a publicity play though, I mean. 1:09:05.000 --> 1:09:08.080 But there's people signing on. Yeah, so there's obviously a 1:09:08.120 --> 1:09:11.799 group of people that believe that it's. 1:09:11.600 --> 1:09:13.800 The pinnacle of what they want. If they could get 1:09:13.800 --> 1:09:15.240 what they want, that's it. 1:09:15.439 --> 1:09:17.479 Oh, they're like, let's just cut to the instead of 1:09:17.600 --> 1:09:20.519 nitpick and just let's just gump this over with all 1:09:20.560 --> 1:09:21.400 one of that. 1:09:21.400 --> 1:09:24.200 That is a great public service announcement, though, Like you know, 1:09:24.280 --> 1:09:29.040 we're heading into elections and a legislative session here in Montana, 1:09:29.080 --> 1:09:32.519 so you're starting to see a lot more people hounding 1:09:32.560 --> 1:09:36.679 you on the street for signatures. Yeah, and their job 1:09:36.760 --> 1:09:40.799 is to get the signature. The last lady who stopped 1:09:40.880 --> 1:09:43.320 me three times, I had to say, can I see 1:09:43.360 --> 1:09:48.920 the language of the bill? It's this, I'm like, that's 1:09:48.920 --> 1:09:51.120 how the bill's written. No, And then finally I had 1:09:51.160 --> 1:09:54.920 to say, I am an informed voter, show me the 1:09:55.040 --> 1:09:58.840 language of the bill so I can read it. And 1:09:58.880 --> 1:10:00.720 she said, oh, okay, most people don't want that. 1:10:00.800 --> 1:10:03.040 Yeah, because you're like, because you're like one in a million. 1:10:03.920 --> 1:10:07.120 Who right, So, like what they're boiling down? 1:10:07.240 --> 1:10:07.840 What was the bill? 1:10:08.280 --> 1:10:15.240 It was on abortion rights? Yeah, yeah, right. 1:10:15.120 --> 1:10:16.080 So it's pro life. 1:10:16.720 --> 1:10:17.519 Okay, what's that? 1:10:18.200 --> 1:10:18.400 You know? 1:10:18.800 --> 1:10:23.400 It's like okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can imagine 1:10:23.400 --> 1:10:26.800 how like the petition's going around Colorado or phrased right, 1:10:26.840 --> 1:10:28.160 oh sure, right. 1:10:28.520 --> 1:10:31.120 Well we we don't have to imagine we know exactly. 1:10:31.760 --> 1:10:34.800 Uh no one eats mountain lion meat. We're going out 1:10:34.840 --> 1:10:38.560 there for the head mountains are going to go extinct. 1:10:38.760 --> 1:10:44.120 That's that's the latest one. What else, hunters, you know, 1:10:44.120 --> 1:10:46.720 we're all we're all the guy from Daniel, Wyoming. That's 1:10:46.720 --> 1:10:48.160 who we are. That's why we're out there doing it, 1:10:48.360 --> 1:10:49.640 and so we can take a picture and put it 1:10:49.680 --> 1:10:54.280 on social media. That's it. The not eating mountain lion 1:10:54.360 --> 1:10:57.599 thing has been really eye opening to me. I've never 1:10:58.560 --> 1:11:02.000 a I live in California, so the whole mountain line thing. 1:11:02.280 --> 1:11:03.599 Yeah, you'll never eat one there. 1:11:03.840 --> 1:11:04.439 And even. 1:11:06.200 --> 1:11:07.639 I can't even bring it back if I go out 1:11:07.640 --> 1:11:09.000 of state or you know wherever. 1:11:09.120 --> 1:11:13.000 But really, yeah, you hide back commissioner. 1:11:13.120 --> 1:11:15.080 Yeah, but I didn't know. I thought that was just 1:11:15.200 --> 1:11:19.280 that they thought it was hypocritical on his part. I 1:11:19.280 --> 1:11:21.360 didn't know that there was a band on bringing them back. 1:11:21.439 --> 1:11:24.599 Yeah. Yeah, you can have a museum. If I started museum, 1:11:24.640 --> 1:11:26.639 then I can bring whatever I want back. But yeah, 1:11:27.040 --> 1:11:29.680 I cannot bring a hide back, even a fully taxidermied 1:11:29.920 --> 1:11:35.840 yea piece you cannot with fully taxidermy from another state 1:11:35.880 --> 1:11:36.479 that allows it. 1:11:36.560 --> 1:11:38.680 You cannot, Oh, crazy. 1:11:38.360 --> 1:11:39.680 Ship man, I don't know how. I didn't know that, 1:11:39.760 --> 1:11:40.439 but I didn't know that. 1:11:40.560 --> 1:11:43.840 So I wanted to know because I've heard from so 1:11:43.880 --> 1:11:45.880 many people and I knew this, but I wanted to know, 1:11:45.960 --> 1:11:48.280 you know, kind of publicly on social media, Hey, who 1:11:48.280 --> 1:11:51.680 eats mountainlin Send me your pictures, send me the send 1:11:51.720 --> 1:11:55.519 me the recipe, send me the cuisine. Whatever. Flooded with pictures, 1:11:55.560 --> 1:11:58.559 flooded with the best you know, mountain lion, egg roll 1:11:58.640 --> 1:12:02.280 mount you know, mountain lion whatever. And you know, so 1:12:02.280 --> 1:12:04.680 we created a bunch of videos. I think CRWM just 1:12:04.680 --> 1:12:07.799 put up one, actually we did on the entire video 1:12:07.840 --> 1:12:10.040 where it's showing food and kind of talking about what's 1:12:10.080 --> 1:12:12.639 going on in Colorado. And then, by the way, everything 1:12:12.640 --> 1:12:14.920 you just saw that was all my on line. You know. 1:12:15.000 --> 1:12:19.479 So so anyway that cats aren't trophies. They are one 1:12:19.560 --> 1:12:22.559 hundred percent just relying on lies. That's what they're telling 1:12:22.560 --> 1:12:25.160 people when they're gathering signatures, you know, where they're getting 1:12:25.200 --> 1:12:28.799 paid what was it seven to ten bucks a signature? Yeah, crazy, 1:12:29.040 --> 1:12:35.240 it's it's a the process of ballot box biology. That's 1:12:35.280 --> 1:12:41.880 really the issue, right, I think it's better understood. Robbie 1:12:41.880 --> 1:12:44.080 itt Blood or just did a great video on this today. 1:12:44.520 --> 1:12:48.120 But it's better understood if you take a different industry. 1:12:48.320 --> 1:12:52.200 Take I don't know, surgeons or whatnot. You know, in 1:12:52.240 --> 1:12:55.800 the in the medical field, should we go to the 1:12:55.840 --> 1:12:59.479 public and say this is how doctors should perform surgery. 1:13:00.040 --> 1:13:03.840 Should be override that, you know, by public opinion. And 1:13:03.840 --> 1:13:05.800 and when we're out there getting those signatures, we can 1:13:05.840 --> 1:13:08.840 say whatever we want. There's no fact checks, doesn't matter. 1:13:09.080 --> 1:13:11.679 You can when you're you know, collecting signatures, you can, 1:13:12.080 --> 1:13:13.960 like I said, you can say, you know, mountain lions 1:13:14.000 --> 1:13:18.240 aren't eaten, they're going to be extinct. Whatever. You can 1:13:18.240 --> 1:13:19.920 say whatever you want to get the signatures. 1:13:19.960 --> 1:13:21.880 All hunters are like this guy and Cody. 1:13:22.920 --> 1:13:26.360 Excuse me, this guy Cody, Yeah, yeah, and Daniel and 1:13:26.600 --> 1:13:33.160 Daniel and and now doctors have to follow these procedures 1:13:33.600 --> 1:13:38.280 for brain surgery. We have wildlife professionals who go to school, 1:13:38.920 --> 1:13:41.240 they have their doctors, they have their PhDs, they have 1:13:41.400 --> 1:13:44.400 you know whatever, who are managing wildlife and that's their job, 1:13:44.960 --> 1:13:47.760 that's their profession. I don't think people really understand that. 1:13:47.840 --> 1:13:51.799 So when you supersede that with going to the public, 1:13:51.880 --> 1:13:54.360 making up lies and changing what they're able to do 1:13:54.520 --> 1:13:57.960 or not able to do. That's the real I mean 1:13:58.240 --> 1:14:01.640 to me, that's the real danger there. Not that biologists 1:14:01.640 --> 1:14:05.080 are perfect, not that our state agencies make the most 1:14:05.080 --> 1:14:09.320 perfect decisions, but I think they are the experts that 1:14:09.360 --> 1:14:11.559 we have to rely on and that we can you know, 1:14:11.720 --> 1:14:15.920 kind of hold the we can hold them accountable right 1:14:16.400 --> 1:14:19.439 for the actions that they that they decide on or 1:14:19.479 --> 1:14:24.599 that they you know, advise to the commissions to make decides, 1:14:25.200 --> 1:14:29.240 to make decisions on the real problem here is ballot 1:14:29.240 --> 1:14:34.240 box biology. That's what That's what we got to inform 1:14:34.320 --> 1:14:37.160 the public on it. You know, like what danger? What 1:14:37.320 --> 1:14:39.720 danger you bringing to the table? When? When when these 1:14:39.760 --> 1:14:41.280 things are allowed to come to a vote? 1:14:41.520 --> 1:14:49.760 Right, That's always been the anti hunting establishment's goal is 1:14:49.800 --> 1:14:53.000 to win in the area of public perception in public arena. 1:14:53.080 --> 1:14:56.400 Yeah, they're not getting what they want. They can't don't 1:14:56.439 --> 1:14:58.839 they don't get what they want from fishing game agencies, 1:14:58.920 --> 1:15:00.960 they don't get what they want from get commissions, and 1:15:01.000 --> 1:15:03.000 so they the idea is you take it to the 1:15:03.080 --> 1:15:07.519 voters and turn something that you know, you'll take a 1:15:07.520 --> 1:15:10.720 policy issue that isn't going the way you want through 1:15:10.800 --> 1:15:13.759 establish channels and try to drive it on public opinion, 1:15:13.760 --> 1:15:17.120 which I mean to be fair, happens in other areas. 1:15:17.439 --> 1:15:20.439 It happens in other areas as well. But people have 1:15:20.520 --> 1:15:24.360 pointed out the chaos that would ensue if every piece 1:15:24.400 --> 1:15:29.599 of policy was driven by a a metric of public 1:15:29.640 --> 1:15:30.800 opinion about it in that. 1:15:30.840 --> 1:15:37.600 Moment, So, like you know what Charles was saying, we 1:15:37.720 --> 1:15:41.519 have professionals and they follow science, and they have data 1:15:42.479 --> 1:15:48.599 that makes informed decisions, where the anti hunters want us 1:15:48.600 --> 1:15:50.680 to deal with strictly like on emotion, and they deal 1:15:50.720 --> 1:15:53.599 with social sciences, and it's the only science that they 1:15:53.600 --> 1:15:55.960 can manipulate. Like when we first got started, we were 1:15:55.960 --> 1:15:58.720 dealing with a bill in California that was trying to 1:15:58.760 --> 1:16:00.400 get rid of bear hunting. 1:16:00.680 --> 1:16:01.960 They had did a poll. 1:16:03.320 --> 1:16:05.600 And it said, oh, you know, I don't remember what 1:16:05.600 --> 1:16:08.120 the numbers were, arbitrary number like eighty five percent of 1:16:08.520 --> 1:16:11.920 the public doesn't want us to bear hunt anymore. And 1:16:11.960 --> 1:16:15.479 the questions they were asking, there's not a single hunter 1:16:15.560 --> 1:16:20.040 that I know that would not agree with the question 1:16:20.120 --> 1:16:22.000 that they were asked. They were asking like, are you 1:16:22.040 --> 1:16:25.240 opposed to lopping off a bear's head? 1:16:25.280 --> 1:16:26.720 And leaving it out in the woods. 1:16:27.160 --> 1:16:29.040 No, okay, I'm not. I mean, I mean, yes, I 1:16:29.040 --> 1:16:30.400 am a post to that. No, I would not like 1:16:30.439 --> 1:16:32.680 to see that. You know, are do you? Are you 1:16:32.720 --> 1:16:38.360 okay with you know, shooting cubs and shooting sALS with cubs. No, 1:16:38.920 --> 1:16:41.120 you know, So, like, of course they're going to come 1:16:41.200 --> 1:16:44.559 up with eighty five percent, because even hunters are going 1:16:44.600 --> 1:16:48.600 to say agree with you know, or go along with 1:16:48.600 --> 1:16:49.880 what they just they. 1:16:49.560 --> 1:16:51.439 Just paint a picture that just isn't reality. 1:16:51.840 --> 1:16:54.680 But we're living in a society and Steve's pointed this 1:16:54.720 --> 1:17:01.640 out many many times, where the the structure of regulated 1:17:01.720 --> 1:17:06.240 hunting is a surprise to a huge portion of the 1:17:06.360 --> 1:17:11.160 voting population. Right, they're like, oh, oh interesting, there's population 1:17:11.320 --> 1:17:13.479 studies and this is data driven, and then there's a 1:17:13.520 --> 1:17:15.600 portion of that and then this is account Well what 1:17:15.640 --> 1:17:17.559 about roadkill? Is that account Oh it is? 1:17:17.600 --> 1:17:19.759 Okay? Well yeah, right, it's. 1:17:19.640 --> 1:17:24.880 Like like it or not. There's the burden of education 1:17:25.040 --> 1:17:26.800 is always going to be on us, right, It's like 1:17:26.840 --> 1:17:30.519 we're I don't mind taking the high road, but we're 1:17:30.560 --> 1:17:34.960 constantly forced into the high road side of things, and 1:17:35.000 --> 1:17:38.600 that takes a lot more time per person. 1:17:38.240 --> 1:17:40.800 Right, yep, Yeah, Yeah, when we were in Utah, we 1:17:40.800 --> 1:17:43.840 were This was really evident to us because we were 1:17:44.240 --> 1:17:47.519 riding in ubers and stuff like to go to dinner 1:17:47.560 --> 1:17:49.920 or whatever. And every time we were inn uber, we 1:17:49.960 --> 1:17:54.479 would engage with the driver and everyone that we talked 1:17:54.520 --> 1:17:57.120 to didn't know that there was seasons, didn't know. 1:17:57.080 --> 1:17:58.320 That we had to go buy tags. 1:17:58.760 --> 1:18:00.759 Basically, their idea was that you can go to Walmart, 1:18:01.120 --> 1:18:03.559 buy a gun, got in a field, and shoot whatever 1:18:03.560 --> 1:18:06.599 the heck you want, and there's no there was no 1:18:06.640 --> 1:18:11.080 perception of like well or they would perceive a Even 1:18:11.080 --> 1:18:13.479 the ones that knew about tags, that a tag meant 1:18:13.479 --> 1:18:15.680 a dead animal, they didn't know it was, you know, 1:18:15.720 --> 1:18:19.360 a nine percent chance of you actually killing something, you know, 1:18:19.439 --> 1:18:22.080 with that or harvesting an elkin or with that tag 1:18:22.160 --> 1:18:26.160 or whatever. And there was just all these things that 1:18:26.560 --> 1:18:29.400 we hunters know about and we take for granted seasons, 1:18:29.479 --> 1:18:32.320 draws and all these other little things that the general 1:18:32.360 --> 1:18:34.760 public doesn't know. The non public doesn't, you know, non 1:18:34.840 --> 1:18:37.160 hunting public doesn't know. So if they don't know that, 1:18:37.720 --> 1:18:40.400 and the only thing that they're being exposed to on 1:18:40.439 --> 1:18:43.800 a constant basis is what the anti hunters are feeding. 1:18:43.880 --> 1:18:46.479 Of course, they're gonna have this preconceived notion of who 1:18:46.479 --> 1:18:49.559 the hunter is. They're gonna think you're Elmer Fudd. You know, 1:18:49.640 --> 1:18:50.960 they're gonna think you're a redneck. 1:18:51.320 --> 1:18:54.679 You Elmer Fudd never got anything true. 1:18:55.280 --> 1:18:55.920 This is true. 1:18:56.240 --> 1:19:01.880 I've found often all throughout my life talking to urban people, 1:19:03.479 --> 1:19:07.840 to have them be pleasantly surprised, to learn about the 1:19:07.880 --> 1:19:12.519 regulatory structure, pleasantly surprised. And then you want to go like, oh, 1:19:12.640 --> 1:19:17.320 those cities slicking idiots, But put yourself in their shoes. 1:19:19.120 --> 1:19:21.400 Let's say you're talking to someone you know. You go, 1:19:21.760 --> 1:19:25.960 you're someone from where I grew up and you know, 1:19:26.200 --> 1:19:30.880 rural West Michigan. Meet someone from Manhattan. You must live 1:19:30.880 --> 1:19:33.439 in a war zone. I bet you can't even go 1:19:33.520 --> 1:19:36.439 outside without getting raped and mugged, you. 1:19:36.479 --> 1:19:36.920 Know what I mean. 1:19:37.120 --> 1:19:39.880 It's like people just aren't aware of other people's worlds. 1:19:39.920 --> 1:19:42.400 So it's not to go and look at someone who 1:19:42.479 --> 1:19:46.080 doesn't hunt, doesn't grow up around hunting, isn't exposed to hunting, 1:19:46.160 --> 1:19:50.800 that they have a totally different idea about it. Well yeah, right, 1:19:50.880 --> 1:19:53.120 and you know what too, The people I hang out 1:19:53.160 --> 1:19:55.679 with a lot of times are idiots about urban life. Right, 1:19:55.760 --> 1:19:58.240 of course, because okay, tell me a thing or two 1:19:58.280 --> 1:20:02.719 about the subway system. You just get robbed, Like, dude, 1:20:02.720 --> 1:20:04.680 there's people have been riding somebodys fifty years and never 1:20:04.720 --> 1:20:06.400 seen a robbery, you know what I mean. But you 1:20:06.439 --> 1:20:09.280 don't know, you jump to conclusions and you have wild ideas. 1:20:09.360 --> 1:20:12.000 It's like a human it's a it's a human problem 1:20:12.320 --> 1:20:16.560 rather than anything else. And then there are people that 1:20:16.560 --> 1:20:19.519 that in the other direction are educated about it and 1:20:19.560 --> 1:20:22.640 choose to just manipulate reality, right right, And that's like 1:20:23.320 --> 1:20:26.759 far less excusable than just being ignorant of a world 1:20:26.760 --> 1:20:29.360 that you don't have any reason to have ever been educated. 1:20:29.000 --> 1:20:31.800 On that world, you know, Yeah, it's it always comes 1:20:31.840 --> 1:20:35.599 out to education. And I think as a group hunters 1:20:36.000 --> 1:20:37.559 we do a pretty good job of getting on our 1:20:37.560 --> 1:20:40.120 soapbox and talking to each other m hm, but we 1:20:40.160 --> 1:20:42.799 don't ever talk to the non hunting public. We're probably 1:20:42.840 --> 1:20:45.680 not going to change anti hunter's minds. But okay, let's 1:20:45.760 --> 1:20:50.080 leave that five percent alone. But that the ninety percent 1:20:50.120 --> 1:20:52.880 in between us, they're they're willing to listen everyone that 1:20:52.920 --> 1:20:55.240 we talked to, and like, you know, that's not even 1:20:55.320 --> 1:20:57.920 last night. We were at a comedy club here and 1:20:59.080 --> 1:21:01.160 there were we were we got you. They're all gonna watch, 1:21:01.280 --> 1:21:04.760 They're all gonna listen to mediator. Yeah, we had the 1:21:04.760 --> 1:21:09.800 whole crag outing, but you know they're willing to listen 1:21:09.840 --> 1:21:12.720 if you're giving them. Oh you know, I didn't know 1:21:12.760 --> 1:21:14.720 that about this. So I didn't know that about that. 1:21:14.840 --> 1:21:15.479 And and they. 1:21:16.880 --> 1:21:22.280 What we're doing by having those conversations is next time 1:21:22.600 --> 1:21:24.800 some bill comes up or something comes up, now they'll 1:21:24.800 --> 1:21:26.280 be like, oh, you know, I remember so and so, 1:21:26.520 --> 1:21:28.320 or I know so and so from work. 1:21:28.360 --> 1:21:30.960 And you know, Steve's a good guy. Steve told me this. 1:21:31.880 --> 1:21:33.160 I'm not I'm I don't. 1:21:32.880 --> 1:21:34.720 Necessarily believe I'm gonna look into this a little bit 1:21:34.760 --> 1:21:37.160 more before I put my name on it, or I'm 1:21:37.160 --> 1:21:38.640 not going to vote that way because I know this 1:21:38.720 --> 1:21:40.160 is BS or whatever. 1:21:40.200 --> 1:21:43.120 Yeah, So that's always been an objective of mine. And 1:21:43.479 --> 1:21:47.439 in imagining that you're having conversations like like through a 1:21:47.479 --> 1:21:49.760 career and talking about hunting and talking about fishing and 1:21:49.840 --> 1:21:54.439 natural resources issues, I have this picture that I'm that 1:21:54.479 --> 1:22:00.439 there's two audiences. One audience is people from completely outside 1:22:00.479 --> 1:22:06.720 of that world looking in, maybe just voyeuristically. Maybe they're 1:22:06.720 --> 1:22:09.080 looking in because they're curious, maybe looking in because they're 1:22:09.080 --> 1:22:11.840 deeply suspicious, but whatever they're looking in on this world. 1:22:12.320 --> 1:22:14.479 And there's also a conversation that you're always having with 1:22:14.520 --> 1:22:17.720 people that are from the world. I much prefer the 1:22:17.800 --> 1:22:21.160 conversations with people that are from the world. Sure, like 1:22:21.280 --> 1:22:23.240 that's just more engaging to me. But I'm aware of 1:22:23.280 --> 1:22:25.559 this other conversation with people that are looking in, and 1:22:25.600 --> 1:22:30.640 I imagine some of the time that backfires. But I 1:22:30.680 --> 1:22:33.400 think a majority of the time, in my experience, which 1:22:33.400 --> 1:22:36.599 is long now, the majority of time it creates a 1:22:36.640 --> 1:22:42.680 bit of understanding and some sympathy. Meaning if they go 1:22:42.760 --> 1:22:45.679 to a Whole Foods and they're presented with the thing 1:22:45.720 --> 1:22:50.880 that would be stop hunting. Yeah, those who spend time 1:22:51.000 --> 1:22:54.639 looking in are gonna more be like what cal said, Well, 1:22:54.880 --> 1:22:57.280 let me see, because I like, I hang out with 1:22:57.320 --> 1:22:59.120 some of those guys. I know some of those guys. 1:22:59.439 --> 1:23:02.240 I've eaten your meat over some of those guys houses, 1:23:04.000 --> 1:23:05.880 the guys I know that are into that world. No 1:23:05.920 --> 1:23:08.400 a shitload about wildlife and really love wildlife. Let me 1:23:08.400 --> 1:23:13.800 take a look. Rather than yeah, I'll sign it hunting, 1:23:13.880 --> 1:23:15.680 screw that, do you know what I mean? I think 1:23:15.720 --> 1:23:22.719 you generally like a majority of interactions create a sympathy, 1:23:22.800 --> 1:23:26.960 understanding empathy of course, or a desire to engage. 1:23:27.240 --> 1:23:28.719 You know, that's part of what we're working. 1:23:30.160 --> 1:23:34.680 So imagine I live in San Francisco. Well now I'm 1:23:34.720 --> 1:23:36.679 a few miles outside, but I was there for a while. 1:23:37.360 --> 1:23:39.840 Imagine you go to San Francisco. Imagine go to Portland, Mangico, 1:23:39.920 --> 1:23:43.559 the Denver, wherever. Here. You drive down the highway and 1:23:43.560 --> 1:23:47.760 you see billboards that are framed for the general non 1:23:47.880 --> 1:23:51.040 hunting public about what hunting is, not to become a hunter, 1:23:51.720 --> 1:23:54.920 but to understand what hunting is right to tackle. I 1:23:54.960 --> 1:23:59.960 don't know things that they don't know, conservation, ecological, economical, 1:24:01.160 --> 1:24:07.040 the the historical, the cultural aspects, whatever it is. Play 1:24:07.040 --> 1:24:10.839 on their emotions about people who do hunt and their stories. 1:24:10.880 --> 1:24:13.800 And wow, women hunt, did you know that? 1:24:13.920 --> 1:24:14.120 Yeah? 1:24:14.160 --> 1:24:16.920 Women hunt? Black people hunt? Did you know that? 1:24:17.040 --> 1:24:17.240 You know? 1:24:17.439 --> 1:24:20.680 Like, let's change the narrative a little bit. When you 1:24:20.720 --> 1:24:23.920 turn on the TV, you see the I don't know 1:24:23.920 --> 1:24:25.960 if it's on anymore, but Sarah mclachy, you know you 1:24:26.040 --> 1:24:28.559 got the Humane Society commercials right. 1:24:29.240 --> 1:24:31.960 Saramhl glaughlan through with those guys. What was her big. 1:24:31.880 --> 1:24:33.559 Hit in the arms of an angel. 1:24:33.680 --> 1:24:39.759 You know, she had a lot, so she had a big, big. 1:24:39.640 --> 1:24:42.320 Hit, probably in the art. 1:24:42.760 --> 1:24:43.439 Yeah, I think it was. 1:24:43.479 --> 1:24:44.760 I think there's a few. Big dude. 1:24:44.800 --> 1:24:47.120 Phil for a minute, pulled his mic up to his lips, 1:24:49.360 --> 1:24:52.200 thought better of it and moved it away. What was it, Phil, 1:24:52.680 --> 1:24:54.240 I'm not it's in the arms of it. 1:24:54.320 --> 1:24:55.640 That's that's the big one, and that's the one they 1:24:55.680 --> 1:25:01.639 played on those. 1:24:58.960 --> 1:25:01.439 You can say, ca on Phil, Phil, can you aim 1:25:01.439 --> 1:25:03.439 the camera at me? It's on you? 1:25:03.520 --> 1:25:03.760 Okay? 1:25:04.200 --> 1:25:05.320 Filled in one of these. 1:25:10.800 --> 1:25:12.040 And you read my mind exactly. 1:25:12.160 --> 1:25:17.679 Yes. So imagine if you're on the TVC commercials about 1:25:18.560 --> 1:25:21.160 this messaging that would be framed for the general public 1:25:21.200 --> 1:25:23.880 to understand it. Why do we not have this? This 1:25:23.960 --> 1:25:26.439 is a billion dollar industry. We spend a lot of 1:25:26.439 --> 1:25:29.360 money on habitat, a lot of money on and a 1:25:29.360 --> 1:25:32.040 lot of things. A lot of money's coming through Pittman Robertson. 1:25:32.960 --> 1:25:34.519 What is it now, twenty billion? 1:25:34.800 --> 1:25:35.320 It's a lot. 1:25:35.479 --> 1:25:38.600 It's a lot since it's since nineteen thirty seven, Oh. 1:25:38.320 --> 1:25:41.280 Yeah, all through Yeah, close to a billion bucks a 1:25:41.320 --> 1:25:42.240 couple of years ago. 1:25:42.840 --> 1:25:47.160 Bro On, one point three years ago, just in one year, yeah, 1:25:47.400 --> 1:25:49.240 in twenty twenty. 1:25:48.760 --> 1:25:51.920 Well, yeah, I did the COVID personal Firearm Bump. 1:25:52.360 --> 1:25:53.200 Yeah, definitely. 1:25:53.479 --> 1:25:56.080 Yeah, people, I would like to point out that it's 1:25:56.160 --> 1:25:58.479 told it's so fair and so true that you can't 1:25:58.479 --> 1:26:01.000 talk about Pittman, Roberts and Fun without pointing out this 1:26:01.080 --> 1:26:06.639 reality that money. I mean, let's be honest, that money's 1:26:06.680 --> 1:26:07.320 gun owners. 1:26:07.920 --> 1:26:10.200 Oh yeah, a lot like like a lot. 1:26:10.479 --> 1:26:12.880 You can break those gun owners out, but that money. 1:26:12.640 --> 1:26:17.519 Is well gun owners or hunters though, sure, But I'm 1:26:17.560 --> 1:26:18.479 not consistent. 1:26:19.560 --> 1:26:22.800 Yeah, it's just at a time. I think at a 1:26:22.840 --> 1:26:25.680 time when you did that excise, when you for that 1:26:25.720 --> 1:26:28.880 excise tax in nineteen thirty seven, it was viewed as like, well, 1:26:28.880 --> 1:26:31.559 who's gonna be paying this? Yeah, hunters. It has just 1:26:31.840 --> 1:26:35.000 come to be that as cultural things have changed and 1:26:35.200 --> 1:26:39.880 time's going on, that was that was had they at 1:26:39.880 --> 1:26:42.920 the time. Let me put it this way, if at 1:26:42.920 --> 1:26:45.360 the time of the enactment of that act, if they 1:26:45.360 --> 1:26:48.040 had said you need to check a box about what 1:26:48.080 --> 1:26:51.240 you're gonna do with that firearm and if if you 1:26:51.360 --> 1:26:54.080 put down hunting, then it goes to the Pittman robertson fun. 1:26:54.760 --> 1:26:57.439 If they had done that, that fund would be a 1:26:57.720 --> 1:27:01.120 would be much much, much much smaller today than it is, 1:27:01.240 --> 1:27:02.920 just out of fairness, way different. 1:27:03.080 --> 1:27:06.880 Yeah. So when you're talking about like promoting, what I'm saying, Yeah, 1:27:06.920 --> 1:27:09.840 this arbitrary numbers to say seventy million dollars a year 1:27:09.920 --> 1:27:15.679 that we as an industry spend on a media campaign 1:27:15.880 --> 1:27:18.400 throughout the United States a Super Bowl commercial, and I'm 1:27:18.400 --> 1:27:21.479 just saying seventy million. Yeah, but we changed three percent, 1:27:21.560 --> 1:27:24.879 five percent, six percent. This is a generation. We're basically 1:27:24.920 --> 1:27:29.479 doing what the anti hunters have done over decades. They 1:27:29.479 --> 1:27:33.120 have slowly changed the mind. They've they've a sea change 1:27:33.160 --> 1:27:34.920 rather and I grew up in Michigan too. There was 1:27:34.960 --> 1:27:37.360 a time in my life where I thought I didn't 1:27:37.360 --> 1:27:40.639 know people didn't hunt right. Times have changed. 1:27:42.040 --> 1:27:46.240 Yeah. Pat Durkin, speaking of Wisconsin, once said, if you're 1:27:46.280 --> 1:27:50.240 not a deer hunter, you share bed with one, right, right, 1:27:50.920 --> 1:27:52.400 or maybe a house with one. But you get talk 1:27:52.680 --> 1:27:56.960 like that. Yeah, so that's what it's fun Yeah, it's 1:27:56.960 --> 1:27:59.519 funny to bring up the billboard thing, because anti hunters 1:27:59.560 --> 1:28:02.120 use the bill board campaigns all the time, very effectively 1:28:02.160 --> 1:28:06.080 and very in a very manipulative, manipulative way. And caw 1:28:06.280 --> 1:28:09.960 was pointing out one around here where there's a they're 1:28:10.040 --> 1:28:13.920 they're equating that dlisting of grizzlies would mean hunting. And 1:28:13.920 --> 1:28:16.280 so there's a picture of a saw with cubs and 1:28:16.280 --> 1:28:19.240 there's a crosshair on the sows on the sow, he'd 1:28:19.240 --> 1:28:23.599 be like, I can assure you a couple one thing. 1:28:24.160 --> 1:28:28.120 The last time they moved to d list Montana wasn't 1:28:28.120 --> 1:28:32.960 issuing any grizzy tags. Right, I can damn sure tell 1:28:33.000 --> 1:28:36.080 you that since you can't shoot a sow black bear 1:28:36.640 --> 1:28:41.600 with cubs, there is no way in the world that 1:28:41.640 --> 1:28:45.160 they're going to open up and extend any harvest that 1:28:45.200 --> 1:28:48.240 would happen in the future to sows accompanied by cubs. 1:28:48.240 --> 1:28:49.479 Sure, well, those are the lies. 1:28:49.680 --> 1:28:52.680 There's there's one right now. There's an organization that has 1:28:52.760 --> 1:28:57.200 always put pushed for a public land trapping band. The 1:28:57.280 --> 1:29:01.160 wolverines were recently listed. And this is a whole deep conversation, 1:29:01.240 --> 1:29:05.280 but wolverine's were recently listed as threatened under the ESA. 1:29:05.560 --> 1:29:09.440 There's now a billboard in town from Gallaton Valley Wildlife Association. 1:29:09.520 --> 1:29:13.040 I think it's like a mostly anti hunting group. They 1:29:13.080 --> 1:29:16.080 have a billboard that says, and these are people that 1:29:16.200 --> 1:29:18.320 always wanted to see a trapping band. It now says 1:29:18.920 --> 1:29:23.240 stop trapping on public land save the endangered wolverine. 1:29:23.920 --> 1:29:25.080 Well, that's part of the problems. 1:29:25.360 --> 1:29:27.639 It is threatened. You can't trap them anyway. 1:29:27.920 --> 1:29:31.920 That's part of the problem with like promoting the positives 1:29:31.960 --> 1:29:35.719 when you're always forced to be in a reactionary position, 1:29:36.240 --> 1:29:39.280 and like fighting these kind of things, like the dude 1:29:39.280 --> 1:29:42.200 in Wyoming is screwed up, Like you're constantly in a 1:29:42.240 --> 1:29:46.200 position of defending yourself rather than promoting yourself. 1:29:46.720 --> 1:29:48.639 And if you do promote it, do you do their 1:29:48.680 --> 1:29:51.000 playbook and just put up totally outrageous lies. 1:29:51.720 --> 1:29:52.840 I don't think we need to be. 1:29:53.000 --> 1:29:57.320 Like hunters are one hundred times more likely than anyone 1:29:57.360 --> 1:29:59.599 else to be great people. 1:30:01.479 --> 1:30:04.160 Have you ever been in an accident hitting a deer, 1:30:04.720 --> 1:30:08.679 Well shoot them all before they kill you. 1:30:08.680 --> 1:30:08.760 No. 1:30:08.840 --> 1:30:10.720 But the biggest problem is that we live in a 1:30:10.760 --> 1:30:14.360 world right now that we are dealing with these just 1:30:14.479 --> 1:30:18.479 memes and little quick right hits, and and the anti 1:30:18.560 --> 1:30:23.679 hunters have such a easy job of swaying public perception, 1:30:24.080 --> 1:30:26.400 like it's very easy to post a picture of a 1:30:26.479 --> 1:30:29.440 guy with a holding a deer with a bloody background 1:30:29.520 --> 1:30:34.760 and whatever, and very negative thoughts are going to come 1:30:34.760 --> 1:30:36.479 to your head, Like you know, if yours don't know 1:30:36.520 --> 1:30:39.519 what hunting is if you're not exposed to hunting. So 1:30:41.360 --> 1:30:44.800 we have this like super hard job of like how 1:30:44.840 --> 1:30:48.519 do we tell people about conservation, about the money, about 1:30:48.520 --> 1:30:51.599 the caring of the wildlife, about the human intrinsic values 1:30:51.600 --> 1:30:54.120 and the things that the meals and all, like all 1:30:54.120 --> 1:30:56.960 these good things that come about with hunting. You know, 1:30:56.960 --> 1:30:59.439 it's probably it's changed, I know, probably everybody's life in 1:30:59.439 --> 1:31:02.800 this room, right. How do we have those conversations when 1:31:02.800 --> 1:31:06.240 you only have three seconds to do it? You know, 1:31:06.720 --> 1:31:09.320 if we had the chance to have like a podcast 1:31:09.479 --> 1:31:13.040 or three hour discussion and nuanced discussion with everybody that 1:31:13.120 --> 1:31:16.280 you encounter, it'd be a lot easier job. 1:31:16.960 --> 1:31:19.200 But we don't. So we have to start coming up 1:31:19.240 --> 1:31:19.759 with ways. 1:31:20.120 --> 1:31:23.040 And I think it's on us to have to start 1:31:23.080 --> 1:31:25.639 talking to we all, you know, we all know people 1:31:26.080 --> 1:31:26.960 that don't hunt. 1:31:27.040 --> 1:31:28.560 We all interact with people. 1:31:28.360 --> 1:31:32.120 At work and you know, at the store or whatever 1:31:32.400 --> 1:31:35.480 that don't hunt. So let's start giving them positive interactions 1:31:35.520 --> 1:31:38.400 with us. Let's start communicating these things with us. Because 1:31:38.400 --> 1:31:40.800 there's what I don't know. The numbers keep changing. Somewhere 1:31:40.840 --> 1:31:43.640 between fourteen to sixteen million people that hunt in the 1:31:43.760 --> 1:31:49.880 United States if one of if we change the mind 1:31:49.920 --> 1:31:53.640 of one or talk to one person every year, you know, 1:31:53.680 --> 1:31:56.000 in ten years we might be a lot closer to, 1:31:56.600 --> 1:31:59.559 you know, having a better understanding with the general public 1:31:59.640 --> 1:32:02.439 or the non hunting public. I should say, of what 1:32:02.600 --> 1:32:03.160 hunting is. 1:32:03.960 --> 1:32:06.679 I don't personally want to see more hunters. I want 1:32:06.720 --> 1:32:08.640 that I'd like to see less hunters. I want to 1:32:08.640 --> 1:32:12.040 see more people accept what hunting is, and not just that, 1:32:12.080 --> 1:32:16.240 but also understand that hunting is an effective management tool 1:32:16.280 --> 1:32:19.200 that is used by these agencies that people don't even 1:32:19.280 --> 1:32:20.800 know exists in the first place. They don't even know 1:32:20.880 --> 1:32:22.920 these agencies exist. So there's a lot of education that 1:32:22.960 --> 1:32:26.680 happen there. But what John was saying, you know, we 1:32:26.720 --> 1:32:28.320 all talked to one person, and we all talked to 1:32:28.360 --> 1:32:32.200 two people or whatever. How do you use I mean, 1:32:32.320 --> 1:32:36.360 I see that as having a positive effect on the 1:32:36.479 --> 1:32:39.519 perception of what hunting is to the general not ending public. 1:32:39.560 --> 1:32:43.840 Do you do you feel the same way? I mean, 1:32:43.880 --> 1:32:46.559 your show's on Netflix. That has to You're not just 1:32:46.760 --> 1:32:48.439 it's not just hunters watching your show. 1:32:48.320 --> 1:32:53.400 Right, Yeah. I find it interesting that the oldest representational 1:32:53.560 --> 1:32:57.200 art on Earth is people cataloging. 1:32:57.600 --> 1:33:02.200 Yeah, the hunts first ever, Yeah. 1:33:02.120 --> 1:33:06.799 Yeah, you don't know what's in their mind. I've always 1:33:08.360 --> 1:33:12.280 written about what I'm interested in and written about my world, 1:33:12.400 --> 1:33:15.360 and as a writer or a creator of some sort, 1:33:16.000 --> 1:33:18.520 I'm going to talk about a certain set of ideas, 1:33:19.160 --> 1:33:22.880 and as time changes and technology changes, I'm going to 1:33:22.920 --> 1:33:26.000 continue to talk about a set of ideas that I'm 1:33:26.040 --> 1:33:29.920 interested in and I feel compelled to discuss in whatever 1:33:30.000 --> 1:33:35.280 way is available for me to talk about them. I 1:33:35.320 --> 1:33:39.200 think that had Uh to go back to and in 1:33:39.240 --> 1:33:41.120 no way would ever equate myself to him. But if 1:33:41.160 --> 1:33:44.280 you go back to someone like Roosevelt or you know, 1:33:44.280 --> 1:33:47.559 I mentioned Leopold earlier, I think that they would have 1:33:47.600 --> 1:33:50.280 taken the ideas that they dealt in and they would 1:33:50.280 --> 1:33:52.280 have talked about them on podcasts. I think they would 1:33:52.320 --> 1:33:54.040 have talked about them on social media. They would have 1:33:54.080 --> 1:33:56.680 not have limited it to books, they would have not 1:33:56.840 --> 1:34:01.040 limited it to articles. They were vocal about their enthusiasms 1:34:01.120 --> 1:34:04.439 and vocal about their love, and they had a big impact, 1:34:04.479 --> 1:34:06.360 and they would have talked about in any way possible 1:34:07.360 --> 1:34:11.479 the argument about there's this kind of pervasive argument about 1:34:12.040 --> 1:34:13.599 I had someone to actually frame it to me one 1:34:13.680 --> 1:34:19.400 day about like somehow conservation that get you know, introducing 1:34:19.479 --> 1:34:22.200 people to the idea of hunting, getting people interested in 1:34:22.280 --> 1:34:26.040 hunting was bad for conservation. Let's take a look at 1:34:26.080 --> 1:34:30.200 that for a second. New Mexico is going to issue 1:34:30.240 --> 1:34:35.040 a certain amount of elk tags. It's capped. Okay, if 1:34:35.080 --> 1:34:38.640 you're talking about conservation, a bunch of people wanting to 1:34:38.720 --> 1:34:41.439 apply for elk tags and wanting to go hunting doesn't 1:34:41.520 --> 1:34:43.639 change the number of people that are out hunting. Right 1:34:44.360 --> 1:34:49.479 They're confusing, oftentimes conservation with convenience, meaning they're mad that 1:34:49.520 --> 1:34:52.839 it's not as convenient to get a tag. Don't tangle 1:34:52.840 --> 1:34:57.720 this up with conservation. The elk carvest is fixed. Let's 1:34:57.720 --> 1:35:00.840 talk about conservation for a minute as well. You go 1:35:00.880 --> 1:35:05.040 to Wisconsin, you go to Michigan, wildlife managers are writing 1:35:05.160 --> 1:35:09.800 public letters because they cannot get people to harvest enough deer. 1:35:10.680 --> 1:35:18.679 They're seeing habitat degradation, an unprecedented disease transmission in certain 1:35:18.680 --> 1:35:21.120 areas because they cannot get the dough harvest up. The 1:35:21.200 --> 1:35:25.120 people that are hunting now aren't killing. Does not enough 1:35:26.479 --> 1:35:28.679 conservation in that area. If you want to talk about conservation, 1:35:28.760 --> 1:35:32.640 conservation in that area would be encouraging a type of 1:35:32.720 --> 1:35:36.160 hunter motivated by venison to go out and get does 1:35:37.160 --> 1:35:41.080 that's conservation. Conservation in that case is not saying sh 1:35:41.280 --> 1:35:44.080 don't tell anybody about hunting. Another thing is I find 1:35:44.720 --> 1:35:49.200 it's like, here's something that's incredibly common. You'll have people 1:35:49.479 --> 1:35:52.400 like me that come from a place like I come 1:35:52.400 --> 1:35:58.200 from Michigan. I moved out to Montana out of an 1:35:58.200 --> 1:36:02.400 interest in hunting and fishing. When I came to Montana, 1:36:04.200 --> 1:36:09.040 I moved in on other people's hunting spots. You just did. 1:36:10.840 --> 1:36:15.200 The only person that has any justification to start bitching 1:36:15.200 --> 1:36:19.520 about losing their spot to incoming people would be Native Americans. 1:36:19.520 --> 1:36:23.439 And if you're really, really, really deeply concerned about people 1:36:23.479 --> 1:36:27.200 that had their hunting spots overrun, you should be involved 1:36:27.200 --> 1:36:30.799 in the land back movement in helping Native Americans. If not, Buddy, 1:36:31.200 --> 1:36:34.360 you took someone's spot right when you moved out west. 1:36:34.640 --> 1:36:37.280 You took someone's spot when you started applying for sheep 1:36:37.280 --> 1:36:39.839 tags and goat tags and moose tags and drawing those tags. 1:36:40.200 --> 1:36:43.880 You cut in line from someone that was applying before 1:36:43.920 --> 1:36:47.720 you were applying. You just did. But people's memories are 1:36:47.760 --> 1:36:51.400 so short. Whatever they were motivated by to move out 1:36:51.400 --> 1:36:54.800 west and start hunting. They think that that because it 1:36:54.880 --> 1:36:58.840 was them that was so pure, everybody else since them 1:36:59.000 --> 1:37:02.320 is just an asshole. It's like, come on, man, right, 1:37:02.680 --> 1:37:04.080 you know what I mean. It's like, come on, and 1:37:04.120 --> 1:37:06.519 there's this other there's this other funny thing too about 1:37:06.520 --> 1:37:10.040 this like industry thing. Like let's say you work. Let's 1:37:10.040 --> 1:37:12.880 say you work in an I was pulling it out 1:37:12.880 --> 1:37:15.519 of thin air. Let's say you worked at the ars 1:37:15.600 --> 1:37:21.200 where you draw your money from federal taxpayer dollars that 1:37:21.240 --> 1:37:26.479 are part of agricultural subsidies. Okay, you know that money's 1:37:26.479 --> 1:37:29.559 coming because it's pork barrel protected. You know that money's coming. 1:37:29.800 --> 1:37:32.439 You never have to market anything, and it why is 1:37:32.479 --> 1:37:34.120 it being that? It's like so weird to see an 1:37:34.200 --> 1:37:36.559 industry where people have to are in the are in 1:37:36.600 --> 1:37:41.320 the open market economy, creating jobs, generating tax revenue. Right, 1:37:41.560 --> 1:37:43.720 It's just it's like upsetting because you live outside of 1:37:43.760 --> 1:37:47.799 a world where there's any accountability. You know, what butters 1:37:47.840 --> 1:37:51.280 your bread? Right, and if it went to a public vote, 1:37:51.760 --> 1:37:56.880 that bread wouldn't get buttered. It just wouldn't. So this 1:37:56.920 --> 1:37:59.759 whole conversation, I would read it. Cal was born in Montana. 1:38:00.040 --> 1:38:03.320 I'm opening to hear col bitch about stuff from Montana. 1:38:03.360 --> 1:38:06.760 I'll indulge it all day long. But this whole like, 1:38:06.800 --> 1:38:08.559 this whole thing is like a ton of guys like me. 1:38:09.479 --> 1:38:12.559 They moved out here and started finding hunting spots. And 1:38:12.640 --> 1:38:16.240 let me tell you, man, there was people hunting those spots. Dude, 1:38:16.720 --> 1:38:19.760 they were you and now you're in that spot. So 1:38:19.920 --> 1:38:22.879 like this conservation question, give me a break, dude. It's convenience. 1:38:22.920 --> 1:38:27.240 It's convenience. It's like you took someone's spot. Someone's in 1:38:27.280 --> 1:38:28.800 your spot now. And you know, what's a couple of things. 1:38:28.840 --> 1:38:31.200 If the person in your spot is a veteran, screw you. 1:38:31.439 --> 1:38:33.280 If the person in your spot's a person with their kids, 1:38:33.360 --> 1:38:33.840 screw you. 1:38:34.320 --> 1:38:34.960 What what? What? 1:38:34.960 --> 1:38:37.520 What makes it your spott? 1:38:38.000 --> 1:38:40.439 Yeah? Like go ask the Blackfeet about it and see 1:38:40.479 --> 1:38:43.000 what they think about who's in their spot. Give me 1:38:43.040 --> 1:38:46.360 a break, man. It's just it's just goes on and 1:38:46.400 --> 1:38:47.320 on and it's like just. 1:38:51.800 --> 1:38:54.799 Sh I think it's I think it's a jealousy thing really, 1:38:55.040 --> 1:38:58.679 because you you see somebody having success, or you see 1:38:58.720 --> 1:39:03.520 somebody doing something that you want to do, so automatically 1:39:03.560 --> 1:39:08.599 somehow they're they're cheating to get that, or they're doing 1:39:08.640 --> 1:39:13.080 something wrong to get that. So if that's oh, you know, 1:39:13.160 --> 1:39:17.639 stealing spots or poaching or getting whatever whatever. 1:39:17.880 --> 1:39:21.040 I mean, having different factions fighting with each other is 1:39:21.120 --> 1:39:23.280 never going to help hunting man. It's never. 1:39:23.920 --> 1:39:24.120 Never. 1:39:24.280 --> 1:39:28.040 I'm sure there's still like getting back to the wolf 1:39:28.200 --> 1:39:29.639 thing or the bear thing, like. 1:39:30.600 --> 1:39:34.080 There's hunters out there that tons don't like that ship. 1:39:34.320 --> 1:39:36.679 Yep, you know, there's a really. 1:39:36.479 --> 1:39:38.920 There's a really interesting statistic that goes along with that. 1:39:39.840 --> 1:39:43.640 Every time there is an argument where hunters are on 1:39:43.720 --> 1:39:46.680 both sides of the fence of an issue, whatever that is, 1:39:48.640 --> 1:39:54.320 it almost always it's like in the ninety percentile aligns 1:39:54.520 --> 1:39:57.040 what it what it. When the smoke clears, it ends 1:39:57.120 --> 1:40:00.840 up aligning with anti hunting movement. So think about that 1:40:00.880 --> 1:40:05.400 if you're fighting your fellow hunter about something like Okay, 1:40:05.439 --> 1:40:07.840 this is a simple one trail camban in Arizona. 1:40:08.800 --> 1:40:11.439 Okay, I don't think you can say that that's anti 1:40:11.560 --> 1:40:12.200 hunting thing. 1:40:12.520 --> 1:40:14.320 But there was ani hunters on the side of that, 1:40:14.760 --> 1:40:16.720 So that's what helped tip the scales. 1:40:16.720 --> 1:40:19.200 I don't I don't think that's what. 1:40:19.280 --> 1:40:22.439 I'm not saying that anti hunters are driving that. I'm 1:40:22.479 --> 1:40:25.599 saying that if you're this way and this guy's this way. 1:40:25.600 --> 1:40:26.639 They're going to be on a side. 1:40:26.720 --> 1:40:28.479 They're going to go with the side that goes against 1:40:28.479 --> 1:40:34.040 that is true, and it's almost always it never works 1:40:34.080 --> 1:40:37.000 out for hunting. Now, could there can there you know, 1:40:37.240 --> 1:40:39.599 could we have found a better solution than just hey, 1:40:39.640 --> 1:40:42.160 let's get rid of I mean, this is just an 1:40:42.240 --> 1:40:46.639 arbitrary example. But could we have found a better solution. 1:40:46.720 --> 1:40:49.479 Could hunters have gotten together and said, Okay, well I 1:40:49.479 --> 1:40:50.960 agree with you, I don't you know, I don't like 1:40:51.000 --> 1:40:53.760 this happening, or I don't want guys coming in and 1:40:53.800 --> 1:40:56.040 checking their trail cameras while I'm sitting on a water hole. 1:40:55.880 --> 1:40:57.000 Because that's what started it. 1:40:59.000 --> 1:41:01.120 Diverse coalition, right or what wind fights? 1:41:01.280 --> 1:41:01.439 Right? 1:41:01.479 --> 1:41:03.320 So like when you're like, well the anti hunters jumped 1:41:03.320 --> 1:41:06.880 in on this, they're able to skew things at the 1:41:07.000 --> 1:41:09.080 end because they're like, okay, we've heard from this group, 1:41:10.160 --> 1:41:12.800 oh and then here's this other group, and so yeah, 1:41:12.840 --> 1:41:15.240 I can see how that would push a thing. But 1:41:15.280 --> 1:41:19.760 that comes down to why everybody who does anything that 1:41:19.800 --> 1:41:23.880 you like to do, you need to figure out educate 1:41:23.920 --> 1:41:26.920 yourself on how to be a better advocate for those 1:41:26.960 --> 1:41:29.760 things and be willing to be involved, right. I mean, 1:41:29.800 --> 1:41:34.320 we're just at a point in time where if you're 1:41:34.360 --> 1:41:37.400 not going to weigh in on the decision making processes, 1:41:38.040 --> 1:41:42.760 these burdens some regulatory processes where thank god we live 1:41:42.760 --> 1:41:46.880 in a place where public comment periods are built into 1:41:46.920 --> 1:41:50.880 the process, somebody else is going to go in there 1:41:50.880 --> 1:41:55.599 and do it for you, right. And you know, we 1:41:55.720 --> 1:42:00.599 really do have a broad, diverse coalition amongst hunters. But 1:42:00.760 --> 1:42:03.960 you have to say, hey, you know I'm in the 1:42:05.280 --> 1:42:08.720 you know, Plumber's Labor Union. This is where I live, 1:42:08.840 --> 1:42:11.519 this is my family, this is how much money I spend, 1:42:11.840 --> 1:42:15.600 and we do it hunting right, And people need to 1:42:15.640 --> 1:42:17.840 go through and we need to make sure that we're 1:42:17.880 --> 1:42:22.320 checking all those boxes when we're saying, hey, this access issue. 1:42:22.880 --> 1:42:28.799 And I think access to wildlife is a very smart 1:42:28.840 --> 1:42:31.439 way of framing this Colorado issue. 1:42:31.520 --> 1:42:31.720 Right. 1:42:32.280 --> 1:42:35.880 It's like, there is no reasonable science that says we 1:42:35.920 --> 1:42:39.880 shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of this opportunity. Should 1:42:39.920 --> 1:42:43.240 you want to take advantage of the opportunity to just 1:42:43.320 --> 1:42:50.320 pursue lions. But somebody's like, oh, well, there's not a 1:42:50.320 --> 1:42:53.240 lot of them, not a lot of hunters doing that, 1:42:53.800 --> 1:42:56.719 So let's just shut off that little bit of access 1:42:56.840 --> 1:43:03.120 to that opportunity, right, and so well you need Unfortunately, 1:43:03.160 --> 1:43:05.600 like the way a lot of politicians work is like, 1:43:05.680 --> 1:43:09.880 well we've already heard from the hunters, right, but if 1:43:09.880 --> 1:43:12.200 you can go in and say listen, yeah, I do 1:43:12.280 --> 1:43:15.200 some hunting, but really I'm a fly fisherman. This is 1:43:15.200 --> 1:43:18.920 why this issue that doesn't seem to be connected matters 1:43:18.920 --> 1:43:23.960 to me. Or you know, dirt bikes ATVs. All the 1:43:24.040 --> 1:43:27.360 outdoor pursuits. Right, It's like, well, you know, the cat 1:43:27.439 --> 1:43:32.200 hunting thing matters to me because there's no reason to 1:43:32.280 --> 1:43:34.400 stop this group of people from doing what they're doing. 1:43:35.280 --> 1:43:38.120 You're just listening to some other group that says it shouldn't. 1:43:37.720 --> 1:43:40.960 Exist and it doesn't stop there. 1:43:41.040 --> 1:43:44.240 Yeah, people cycles, I'll getting rid of that too. 1:43:44.520 --> 1:43:45.000 Yeah. 1:43:45.040 --> 1:43:46.920 Are we just looking at the issue for the issue 1:43:46.960 --> 1:43:50.519 and not looking at the. 1:43:49.280 --> 1:43:51.559 You know, the side effects that happened to it. 1:43:51.800 --> 1:43:57.160 Right, And like Steve says, people's memories are very short, right, it's. 1:43:56.960 --> 1:43:59.880 Like, oh, yeah, you know there's the thing I want 1:43:59.920 --> 1:44:02.320 to push back on a little bit. And we discussed 1:44:02.320 --> 1:44:06.920 this in the past, is uh, there are gonna become 1:44:07.040 --> 1:44:12.759 times on regulatory issues where the general will of hunters 1:44:14.120 --> 1:44:17.960 is going to align with anti hunters? Oh sure, I 1:44:17.960 --> 1:44:19.800 mean you take a look at this. This is the 1:44:19.800 --> 1:44:21.080 thing I always like to bring up because it was 1:44:21.080 --> 1:44:23.280 so clean, and it was so clean. An instant was 1:44:23.320 --> 1:44:29.639 when the idea of using drones for hunting came in. Okay, right, 1:44:29.680 --> 1:44:33.560 when drones were hitting and becoming this thing just widely available, inexpensive. 1:44:34.640 --> 1:44:39.519 I think one year you had thirteen states come out, 1:44:39.520 --> 1:44:43.840 thirteen Western states come out with drone bands, including Alaska. Right, 1:44:45.120 --> 1:44:48.080 had you gone to the anti hunting world and said, 1:44:48.080 --> 1:44:49.400 should you be able to use a drone for hunting? 1:44:49.439 --> 1:44:51.759 What do you think they're gonna say no? Okay, well 1:44:52.280 --> 1:44:55.680 sort of, they'll you know, Alaska's Game commission. Sure, So 1:44:56.000 --> 1:44:58.000 I don't think like in some of these cases a 1:44:58.040 --> 1:45:00.559 little more complicated than to say like and then they 1:45:00.600 --> 1:45:05.880 side with the ani hunters because it's just right. It's 1:45:06.040 --> 1:45:08.080 it's like you're gonna wind up. I don't even want 1:45:08.080 --> 1:45:11.080 to use the term strange bedfellows, but you're coming out 1:45:11.160 --> 1:45:15.240 of question from opposite directions, but you're landing on that 1:45:15.320 --> 1:45:19.679 question the exact same way. You know, like you can't Yeah, 1:45:19.880 --> 1:45:23.200 it's it's it's impossible. I don't want to call it 1:45:23.240 --> 1:45:27.760 an unfortunate accident, but just sometimes they're your sentiment, A 1:45:27.840 --> 1:45:29.880 hunter's sentiment is going to align that way. 1:45:30.320 --> 1:45:32.080 Well, it's the same saying goes with the you know, the 1:45:32.080 --> 1:45:37.080 wyoming wolf thing, but it's do you want them driving 1:45:37.120 --> 1:45:38.960 the policy or do you want the policy to come 1:45:38.960 --> 1:45:39.559 from us? 1:45:39.760 --> 1:45:43.320 Well, in this case, in the drone case, the policy 1:45:43.400 --> 1:45:47.760 very much came from hunters, right. You know, as we 1:45:48.040 --> 1:45:51.000 just heard from some people involved in the commission in 1:45:51.120 --> 1:45:54.759 Arizona on the governor tag issue, like that policy change 1:45:54.800 --> 1:46:00.800 is coming from people who have untarnished reputations as pro hunters. Right. 1:46:00.920 --> 1:46:05.360 It's just some things would be that if your knee 1:46:05.479 --> 1:46:09.680 jerk anti anything having to do with hunting, you're going 1:46:09.760 --> 1:46:14.760 to align oftentimes with hunting restrictions. If a state game 1:46:14.800 --> 1:46:18.240 agency says, do we want to allow nighttime hunting of 1:46:18.240 --> 1:46:24.200 elk with thermals? Right, hunters are going to say what, no? 1:46:24.200 --> 1:46:24.280 No? 1:46:24.600 --> 1:46:26.080 And what are anti hunters is going to say? No? 1:46:26.160 --> 1:46:26.720 Of course not? 1:46:26.880 --> 1:46:29.840 So yeah, we we just what something was it last 1:46:29.880 --> 1:46:31.960 year with the horses? We actually so. 1:46:31.920 --> 1:46:36.400 I was gonna say, yeah, so we have aligned, you know, 1:46:36.520 --> 1:46:39.439 and I with the Center for Biological Diversity, a couple 1:46:39.479 --> 1:46:42.839 of times, and it's on it's on wild horses. 1:46:43.360 --> 1:46:46.439 I mean, this is not uncommon, right, I mean, yeah, 1:46:46.520 --> 1:46:48.040 go ahead, well, yeah. 1:46:47.840 --> 1:46:53.720 It's it's uncommon in our space. But we basically got 1:46:53.760 --> 1:46:56.800 pictures and documentation from Robin Silver, who I think is 1:46:57.040 --> 1:47:02.679 the co founder of CBD. I believe Apache Sickreise National Forest, 1:47:02.720 --> 1:47:05.160 I think is what it was. They're calling them faral 1:47:05.200 --> 1:47:10.040 horses because yeah, the evidence points to there was a wildfire, 1:47:10.120 --> 1:47:15.840 it burnt down fences of native tribes, their horses got out. 1:47:16.080 --> 1:47:20.880 Now they're living here, so they're not wild horses. 1:47:20.920 --> 1:47:23.559 I agree with that. Yeah, dude, I feel like we 1:47:23.600 --> 1:47:25.920 need you got to provide a little background for people. 1:47:26.080 --> 1:47:30.040 Well, there was a wild horse untarnished by the hands 1:47:30.080 --> 1:47:31.480 of man and manipulation. 1:47:32.320 --> 1:47:33.320 You're doing the background right now? 1:47:33.400 --> 1:47:33.559 Yeah? 1:47:33.560 --> 1:47:34.599 Oh thank you? Yeah? 1:47:34.640 --> 1:47:41.400 How far back you going place to see you? Okay? 1:47:42.040 --> 1:47:45.800 Yeah, walk us through a quick chronology because these are confusing. 1:47:46.320 --> 1:47:52.960 So that horse died off several theories as to how, 1:47:54.040 --> 1:47:56.160 but they very well could have been hunted and killed 1:47:56.160 --> 1:48:04.080 by early humans on this continent. By leap forward in time, 1:48:05.160 --> 1:48:10.719 the Spanish arrive with horses at a couple of different 1:48:10.760 --> 1:48:12.719 geographic locations. 1:48:12.760 --> 1:48:14.839 But those. 1:48:16.160 --> 1:48:23.639 Indigenous people to North America, southern North America start stealing 1:48:23.680 --> 1:48:29.719 those mainly for food, and uh, you know, the horses 1:48:29.880 --> 1:48:33.800 run away. Even in modern times, horses run away. So 1:48:35.520 --> 1:48:40.040 this allowed for like another food option out there on 1:48:40.080 --> 1:48:44.200 the on the prairie because they're out there making more horses. 1:48:45.240 --> 1:48:47.400 But I mean that's that's where like, that's how a 1:48:47.479 --> 1:48:51.400 feral population begins. Now we're just like a long road 1:48:51.479 --> 1:48:52.000 down the way. 1:48:52.040 --> 1:48:54.559 So I think what you're getting at is, at this point, 1:48:54.920 --> 1:48:57.559 all wild horses are faral horses. 1:48:57.840 --> 1:49:02.400 There's but there's actually if you went to but there 1:49:02.479 --> 1:49:05.400 was a bifurcation at a point where they looked at 1:49:05.400 --> 1:49:12.120 these sort of ancestral Spanish horses they dubbed we Americans whatever, 1:49:12.240 --> 1:49:16.160 dubbed those wild horses. But if cow's horse ran away, 1:49:17.320 --> 1:49:22.040 that's a feral horse. Those have different governing rules. But 1:49:22.160 --> 1:49:26.840 the world has gotten murky in that among those ancestral 1:49:26.880 --> 1:49:30.719 wild horses. You gotta all kind of runaway feral horses, right, 1:49:30.840 --> 1:49:32.960 And so they do it by not what is the 1:49:33.040 --> 1:49:35.160 animal's history? Where is the animal standing? 1:49:35.240 --> 1:49:39.280 Yeah, geography was that nineteen seventy something, they like made 1:49:39.320 --> 1:49:42.360 boundaries and any horses that were in this I think 1:49:42.360 --> 1:49:44.720 it's in the seventies something like that. Any horses in 1:49:44.760 --> 1:49:47.720 this area is a wild horse. Anything outside of that 1:49:47.840 --> 1:49:48.960 is a federal federal horse. 1:49:49.400 --> 1:49:53.799 Where's a wild horse island here in Montana where they're. 1:49:55.200 --> 1:49:55.559 Crazy. 1:49:55.680 --> 1:49:57.840 But yeah, if you could take you could take your 1:49:57.920 --> 1:49:59.960 You could take a horse you've owned for twenty years, 1:50:00.720 --> 1:50:02.479 put it on the right patch of ground, and that 1:50:02.560 --> 1:50:03.719 horse becomes a wild horse. 1:50:03.800 --> 1:50:06.880 Sure they go farrow very quickly, or they go wild. 1:50:06.960 --> 1:50:07.559 No, I mean, I'm sorry. 1:50:07.680 --> 1:50:11.080 Legally, yes, you're right. 1:50:11.280 --> 1:50:13.839 You just got to get rid of any any markings. 1:50:14.240 --> 1:50:16.640 Make sure the brand inspector isn't isn't around you. 1:50:17.000 --> 1:50:18.560 I'm taking something. That's why we need to have the 1:50:18.640 --> 1:50:21.599 right guest. I'm taking something that's so complicated and trying 1:50:21.640 --> 1:50:23.559 to compress it. And I'm not a subject matter expert. 1:50:23.600 --> 1:50:26.439 But anyhow, go ahead. You found yourself on the same side. 1:50:26.479 --> 1:50:30.240 Well, they were, Yeah, they were legally classified as as 1:50:30.720 --> 1:50:34.280 as a feral horses, not not wild. Otherwise I don't 1:50:34.280 --> 1:50:38.439 think anything could have been done. But uh, for that issue, 1:50:38.439 --> 1:50:42.280 we were the squeakiest wheel. Which whenever this had come 1:50:42.320 --> 1:50:43.400 up before. 1:50:43.760 --> 1:50:48.559 The what was the issue, like get rid of them. 1:50:49.560 --> 1:50:55.439 To remove them from. Yeah, like the landscape there was 1:50:55.560 --> 1:50:59.320 just getting decimated. It was just dirt left, no no water. 1:50:59.760 --> 1:51:02.000 With the water situation was the worst thing. They would 1:51:02.000 --> 1:51:07.200 like physically see tanks that elk would normally drink at horse, 1:51:07.560 --> 1:51:09.160 you know, whole brute horses come in. 1:51:09.080 --> 1:51:10.960 And and there was endanger. 1:51:11.439 --> 1:51:13.760 She's oh, yeah, there was an dangerous feture. That's what. 1:51:13.800 --> 1:51:16.439 Else Where the CBD comes in a lot, they're all 1:51:16.479 --> 1:51:17.559 about habitat or something. 1:51:17.920 --> 1:51:21.800 I believe my girlfriends a horse, grew up as a 1:51:21.800 --> 1:51:24.880 horse person. She gets really annoyed with me when we're 1:51:24.960 --> 1:51:28.000 driving through parts of Montana and I point to shitty 1:51:28.040 --> 1:51:31.200 pastures and I'm like, oh, that's a horse property, right. 1:51:31.760 --> 1:51:32.400 It's the truth. 1:51:32.880 --> 1:51:38.840 So in this case, in the desert southwest areas of Nevada, California, Arizona, 1:51:38.920 --> 1:51:46.800 New Mexico, you have a impost wild animal out competing 1:51:47.160 --> 1:51:52.439 true native wildlife for grass and water. And that's the 1:51:52.520 --> 1:51:53.960 that's the that's the like. 1:51:53.880 --> 1:51:56.000 The crux of the issue. And I talked to him 1:51:56.040 --> 1:51:57.479 two days ago, and this might be the guy I 1:51:57.560 --> 1:51:58.960 refer to you if you want to talk to him, 1:51:59.000 --> 1:52:02.680 but he said they've removed five hundred horses now and 1:52:02.720 --> 1:52:06.400 they are going to there's farms, there's I don't know 1:52:06.439 --> 1:52:07.000 what they're called. 1:52:08.200 --> 1:52:08.680 Some of them. 1:52:08.760 --> 1:52:10.599 Yeah, some of them are get relocated. But I think 1:52:10.640 --> 1:52:11.920 some of them are getting. 1:52:11.479 --> 1:52:12.439 People buy them people. 1:52:12.640 --> 1:52:13.599 No, they can't. 1:52:13.760 --> 1:52:15.280 I thought there were some that they had they were 1:52:15.320 --> 1:52:16.559 they approved the lethal takes. 1:52:16.600 --> 1:52:18.599 Oh maybe they were not true wild horses. 1:52:18.640 --> 1:52:22.640 Then they were diseased or cripp the. 1:52:22.760 --> 1:52:27.679 Feral because of the whenever that wildfire happened. They were 1:52:27.760 --> 1:52:31.320 classified as these are feral. These escaped out of the 1:52:32.200 --> 1:52:34.800 out of the indigenous, you know, out of the reservation. 1:52:35.280 --> 1:52:36.320 So they were. 1:52:38.720 --> 1:52:43.520 That's what it was. Yeah, So there's an example of alignment. 1:52:44.680 --> 1:52:48.960 Like the Center for Biological Diversity wanted them removed wildlife 1:52:49.200 --> 1:52:56.160 like more hook and Bullet wildlife activists wanted them removed. 1:52:55.800 --> 1:52:58.280 Back to the CBD. We are fighting them now on 1:52:58.360 --> 1:53:01.479 this uh Catalina Island. And you know about the mule 1:53:01.520 --> 1:53:02.360 deer extermination. 1:53:02.840 --> 1:53:05.200 Yeah, we've covered that exhaustively man. 1:53:05.560 --> 1:53:09.519 So uh but they backed up on it. No, No, 1:53:09.520 --> 1:53:11.639 no aerial gunning. That's not going to happen, at least 1:53:11.720 --> 1:53:17.000 not this year. Two days ago, three days ago, the 1:53:17.080 --> 1:53:21.000 Commission approved p l M tags on Catalin Island to 1:53:21.080 --> 1:53:24.000 increase hunting opportunity on the island. That's what we asked for. 1:53:26.040 --> 1:53:30.599 There's but the Humane Society is on our side. There's others. 1:53:30.640 --> 1:53:33.719 It's funny. So yeah, so I was just on Catialen 1:53:33.800 --> 1:53:36.360 Island and. 1:53:35.320 --> 1:53:36.519 You guys been on the phone together. 1:53:36.720 --> 1:53:37.799 Yeah, no, it's funny. 1:53:37.800 --> 1:53:38.120 We did. 1:53:38.160 --> 1:53:40.240 We did some podcasts together. I'm like, well, this is 1:53:40.360 --> 1:53:43.000 this is interesting. I'm here with the Humane Society and 1:53:43.000 --> 1:53:44.840 and this lady said, hey, I'm all for hunting, I'm 1:53:44.840 --> 1:53:45.599 all for management. 1:53:47.600 --> 1:53:48.880 We were very surprised about that. 1:53:49.080 --> 1:53:51.880 Yeah, just not eradication. I'm like, I'm right there with you. 1:53:53.040 --> 1:53:56.520 So that's a not US standpoint. 1:53:56.600 --> 1:53:56.640 No. 1:53:56.880 --> 1:53:59.280 Never, she still worked for them right. 1:54:02.000 --> 1:54:04.200 To get you know, on the billboard. 1:54:04.720 --> 1:54:07.640 So there is a difference. So hs US is is 1:54:07.720 --> 1:54:10.559 kind of like the the national brand, right. 1:54:10.439 --> 1:54:13.240 And that's the animal rights Oh yeah that this causes 1:54:13.360 --> 1:54:14.240 huge confusion. 1:54:14.479 --> 1:54:14.719 Yeah. 1:54:14.920 --> 1:54:18.080 So hs US and your local Humane Society are not 1:54:18.320 --> 1:54:19.120 the same thing. 1:54:19.080 --> 1:54:20.439 Very different, very different. 1:54:20.479 --> 1:54:22.400 So this was a local maybe a low this is 1:54:22.479 --> 1:54:23.200 this is local. 1:54:23.560 --> 1:54:26.920 However, the the Humane I believe hs US has come 1:54:26.960 --> 1:54:31.000 out in opposition of this because they're just against yeah anything. 1:54:30.880 --> 1:54:34.440 Right, they don't Yeah, they don't entangle themselves into things 1:54:34.480 --> 1:54:38.280 from a habitat perspective. They and they are focused on 1:54:38.320 --> 1:54:43.280 like individual they're focused on welfare of individual animals. 1:54:44.000 --> 1:54:44.240 You know. 1:54:45.360 --> 1:54:48.240 I've recently looked at some interesting documentation out of California 1:54:48.240 --> 1:54:51.880 with hs US where hs US had petitioned the state 1:54:51.960 --> 1:54:56.839 to end California's bear harvest or sorry to to petition 1:54:56.920 --> 1:55:00.720 the state to end California's bear hunt over concerns that 1:55:01.200 --> 1:55:06.560 that populations were plummeting, Which were which was the opposite 1:55:06.600 --> 1:55:09.240 of truth? And then later one of them clarified someone 1:55:09.720 --> 1:55:11.360 I think it was on a podcast. Someone sent me 1:55:11.360 --> 1:55:16.520 a transcript. Someone pressed them, if you're arguing to close 1:55:16.560 --> 1:55:19.240 the bar season based on a population number that you 1:55:19.320 --> 1:55:22.960 understand to be true, what is the population number where 1:55:22.960 --> 1:55:26.480 you would not oppose the bear harvest? And she acknowledged 1:55:26.560 --> 1:55:27.560 there is no number. 1:55:28.280 --> 1:55:30.280 So that was that was actually we actually have our 1:55:30.360 --> 1:55:33.840 video that was actually in a commission meeting. That was 1:55:33.880 --> 1:55:41.360 Commissioner Murray pressed Wendy keif Over, she's the Humane Society 1:55:41.680 --> 1:55:45.120 HSUS representative. She asked her that in a commission meeting, 1:55:45.600 --> 1:55:48.240 what's the number you're happy with? You know, because they 1:55:48.720 --> 1:55:50.560 they didn't know at the time when they when they 1:55:50.600 --> 1:55:52.760 had this petition and we had we had this big meeting. 1:55:52.800 --> 1:55:54.839 We had one hundred and thirty hunters there. I believe 1:55:55.800 --> 1:55:59.120 the Commission was incredible. Gave us the opportunity to talk about, 1:56:00.120 --> 1:56:03.280 you know, what we do with with bear fat, with 1:56:03.360 --> 1:56:06.840 bear meat, like like, really, the California Commissions is giving 1:56:06.920 --> 1:56:10.560 us this incredible opportunity to share our stories, and Humane 1:56:10.600 --> 1:56:13.920 Society was just going nuts like disrupting the meetings. You 1:56:13.960 --> 1:56:15.960 guys can't do this, don't let them talk about that. 1:56:16.040 --> 1:56:18.960 And they're like, wait, it's your petition. You made these claims. 1:56:18.960 --> 1:56:22.360 You made these claims that people don't eat bear, that 1:56:22.440 --> 1:56:23.960 you know they do this and that, and there's only 1:56:24.000 --> 1:56:27.120 thirteen thousand bear in California. Well, we just proved you wrong. 1:56:28.000 --> 1:56:31.360 And one of our scientists at that time nobody knew 1:56:31.400 --> 1:56:34.640 this was coming, stood up, gave a presentation and said, hey, 1:56:34.680 --> 1:56:38.840 we're working on a bear management plan, which is now 1:56:39.000 --> 1:56:41.760 to present they have one. Yeah, the comment period justid 1:56:42.000 --> 1:56:46.920 he goes, I think we're looking at sixty seventy thousand 1:56:46.960 --> 1:56:51.440 bear and it just made was like, what you know, 1:56:51.840 --> 1:56:54.000 did anybody know about this? Because we look like. 1:56:54.600 --> 1:56:57.520 They were pushing twelve five. Yeah, and then the new 1:56:57.560 --> 1:57:00.000 thing is like the most, like the sort of best. 1:57:00.200 --> 1:57:03.400 It's a range of fifty something to eighty something. So 1:57:03.520 --> 1:57:06.120 people are probably the probably sixty five thousand bears. 1:57:07.120 --> 1:57:10.200 But no hunter stood up and said, now you imagine 1:57:10.320 --> 1:57:13.640 sixty seventy thousand hungry bears on the edge of your 1:57:13.720 --> 1:57:16.200 child's playground, right, Okay. 1:57:16.520 --> 1:57:20.120 Yeah, that's the other thing you got to resist they made. 1:57:20.200 --> 1:57:23.760 Yeah, they find a lot of hunters tiptoeing into this 1:57:24.920 --> 1:57:31.800 dangerous territory of telling everybody how dangerous wildlife, right, and 1:57:31.840 --> 1:57:35.760 that they're doing you a great service because wildlife is 1:57:35.840 --> 1:57:42.160 so dangerous. And that's another real that's a yeah, that's 1:57:42.280 --> 1:57:44.400 that is a dangerous place to get. 1:57:44.440 --> 1:57:48.600 We never want to vilify the lion or the bear whatever. 1:57:48.640 --> 1:57:50.320 They're just going to do what they do the wolf. 1:57:50.920 --> 1:57:54.400 But it's no, we're full support. 1:57:54.400 --> 1:57:56.760 We love wolves on the landscape, grizzly bear. They deserve 1:57:56.840 --> 1:57:59.200 to be there, but they do need to be managed, 1:57:59.360 --> 1:58:02.000 and I don't know, don't we don't really believe in 1:58:02.280 --> 1:58:06.320 reintroduction or introduction, so sticky, it's. 1:58:06.360 --> 1:58:10.000 Well, cats out of the bag. Yeah, sorry, you're not 1:58:10.040 --> 1:58:13.920 going to put it back, I should have no. No, 1:58:13.960 --> 1:58:15.920 I'm just saying this, like we had a conversation a 1:58:15.920 --> 1:58:18.480 long time ago about with the We had a conversation 1:58:18.600 --> 1:58:21.440 on the show with the woman that ran the that 1:58:21.440 --> 1:58:26.960 that ran the wolf program during the wolf reintroduction in 1:58:27.000 --> 1:58:34.920 the mid nineties in Yellowstone. She looking back, looking back, 1:58:35.000 --> 1:58:38.480 felt that it was unnecessary even now says it was 1:58:38.600 --> 1:58:40.520 unnecessary at the time because we would have landed in 1:58:40.560 --> 1:58:42.840 the same place coming down. We would have landed in 1:58:42.840 --> 1:58:46.000 the same position with natural movement of animals coming in, 1:58:46.080 --> 1:58:49.280 and they were seeing it coming in. While the Colorado 1:58:49.760 --> 1:58:53.360 reintroduction bill was progressing, wolves were showing up from Wyoming. 1:58:53.480 --> 1:58:53.600 Right. 1:58:54.440 --> 1:59:00.160 So, whether or not in twenty years, thirty years, however 1:59:00.240 --> 1:59:01.560 the hell it is, I think you're gonna be stuck 1:59:01.600 --> 1:59:03.200 with the same set of converce You're gonna be stuck 1:59:03.440 --> 1:59:05.240 whether or not those things that happened, you probably stuck 1:59:05.280 --> 1:59:12.520 around the same set of conversations around you are gonna 1:59:13.280 --> 1:59:15.760 I think this is the reality. You are gonna have 1:59:15.840 --> 1:59:19.200 large predators on the landscape. You're gonna have large predators 1:59:19.320 --> 1:59:21.720 on more of the landscape, and there's gonna become a 1:59:21.800 --> 1:59:29.720 question of do we do management practices to uh do 1:59:29.800 --> 1:59:34.240 we tape steps for management practices to reduce conflict and 1:59:34.280 --> 1:59:41.280 to stay with deer and elk herds that we want 1:59:41.360 --> 1:59:43.520 to see, that we hunters want to see, and that's 1:59:43.560 --> 1:59:46.400 gonna be Like it's gonna be somewhere between those two things. 1:59:46.400 --> 1:59:49.560 They're not gonna be gone, right, They're not gonna be gone. 1:59:50.360 --> 1:59:51.560 We're not gonna go back. 1:59:51.360 --> 1:59:53.880 In time and not re eradicate them or whatever. 1:59:53.920 --> 1:59:56.160 It's not gonna happen. It can't happen. There's all kinds 1:59:56.200 --> 1:59:58.600 of I mean, we have this whole legal framework that 1:59:58.760 --> 1:59:59.960 they can't allow that to happen. 2:00:00.120 --> 2:00:03.720 But this big pop you know what the prey population 2:00:04.360 --> 2:00:08.320 objectives are going to be. I think you're correct, is 2:00:08.480 --> 2:00:11.160 like going to be a big conversation because like here 2:00:11.200 --> 2:00:14.920 in the state of Montana, right we're like, we love elk, 2:00:15.000 --> 2:00:18.160 we want more elk. A lot of folks in Montana 2:00:18.160 --> 2:00:20.160 are like, we don't want more elk. 2:00:20.800 --> 2:00:24.120 Well, in Colorado, where there there's a new. 2:00:24.640 --> 2:00:28.040 Wolf population getting itself established, at some point they're going 2:00:28.080 --> 2:00:31.560 to have to decide how many will elk are we 2:00:31.600 --> 2:00:36.480 willing to like give to and how many elk are 2:00:36.520 --> 2:00:37.760 we saving for hunters? 2:00:38.280 --> 2:00:40.800 I think it's the only practical conversation and the same 2:00:40.800 --> 2:00:46.080 way we debate between different stakeholders, you know, the same 2:00:46.080 --> 2:00:52.040 way agricultural interests might argue with hunter interests about how 2:00:52.040 --> 2:00:54.480 many elk is the right number elk? How many deer 2:00:54.520 --> 2:00:56.760 is the right number a deer we're gonna have. We're 2:00:56.760 --> 2:01:00.520 gonna have conversations about how many line is the right 2:01:00.600 --> 2:01:03.280 number of lions, how many wolves is the right number 2:01:03.280 --> 2:01:05.400 of wolves, how many grizzly bears is the right number 2:01:05.440 --> 2:01:07.520 of grizzly bears, how many black bears is the right 2:01:07.600 --> 2:01:10.720 number of black bears. I don't think that the conversation 2:01:10.880 --> 2:01:14.240 is never going to return to should we poison them all? 2:01:15.080 --> 2:01:17.720 Its just right, I mean, be realistic. 2:01:17.760 --> 2:01:20.480 But the problem is, like these guys are saying there 2:01:20.560 --> 2:01:23.040 is no number that's big enough for some people. 2:01:23.200 --> 2:01:26.320 Yes, you know, and there's no number of elk it's 2:01:26.360 --> 2:01:29.680 big enough for some people. Right, I don't know many guys. 2:01:29.760 --> 2:01:33.400 I don't know many elk hunors the convenience about having 2:01:36.160 --> 2:01:37.160 I don't know those guys. 2:01:37.880 --> 2:01:42.240 There's a big difference between reintroducing and them coming in 2:01:43.040 --> 2:01:44.680 their own you know, natural attrition. 2:01:44.840 --> 2:01:47.800 Yeah, social friction is a big issue, and I think 2:01:47.840 --> 2:01:50.080 that's part of the To be fair to the woman 2:01:50.120 --> 2:01:53.560 that said we that she sort of questions the move, 2:01:54.640 --> 2:01:58.120 she said, the social conversation that we would have eventually 2:01:58.200 --> 2:02:01.280 got there, the social conversation would have been so different. 2:02:01.480 --> 2:02:03.800 Yeah, but even ecologically it's a big difference. 2:02:03.800 --> 2:02:05.200 It's been huge different psychologically. 2:02:05.640 --> 2:02:09.480 So like you drop one hundred wolves into an area 2:02:09.840 --> 2:02:12.640 and all the prey they've never seen a wolf before 2:02:12.640 --> 2:02:15.080 in their life. They don't know how to react towards 2:02:15.080 --> 2:02:16.360 the wolf. It's just like when you go out in 2:02:16.400 --> 2:02:19.000 the woods, deep deep bak back and you run into 2:02:19.040 --> 2:02:21.040 an elkan that's staring at you because he's never seen 2:02:21.040 --> 2:02:21.960 a human before. 2:02:21.720 --> 2:02:24.800 In your backyard. Or on the other he's never seen 2:02:24.840 --> 2:02:26.960 them or they've never heard them. Right, And they. 2:02:26.880 --> 2:02:29.360 Picked the problem wolves. Yeah that's in this case out 2:02:29.400 --> 2:02:31.720 of Oregon. Yeah, like they picked the wolves they wanted 2:02:31.720 --> 2:02:32.360 to get rid of. 2:02:33.160 --> 2:02:36.760 And from what I'm on them, that's like generally what happens. Okay, 2:02:36.920 --> 2:02:39.280 Like a state's like, okay, well we need we need 2:02:39.320 --> 2:02:40.600 to get rid of these problem. 2:02:40.400 --> 2:02:42.800 Childs, and yeah, let's ship them off to this state. 2:02:43.680 --> 2:02:50.040 So you know, you introduce a wolf that's never been 2:02:50.040 --> 2:02:51.880 on a landscape or hasn't been on the landscape for 2:02:51.880 --> 2:02:54.760 one hundred years or whatever. Those animals know how to 2:02:55.120 --> 2:03:00.000 how to deal with it. Also, those wolves don't know, Hey, 2:03:00.080 --> 2:03:00.919 where are my boundaries? 2:03:00.960 --> 2:03:01.960 What do I need to stay in? 2:03:02.120 --> 2:03:04.120 Like they're just going to keep going wherever they want 2:03:04.120 --> 2:03:07.600 to go, and like it just causes more. 2:03:08.280 --> 2:03:12.760 Dan Gates and I were just talking last week about Colorado, 2:03:13.000 --> 2:03:15.520 specifically on the on the wolves. We changed topics for 2:03:15.560 --> 2:03:20.400 a minute, and uh, we're just talking about how it 2:03:20.480 --> 2:03:24.840 is kind of funny where like that celebratory zeal of 2:03:24.920 --> 2:03:30.480 reintroduction has gone away. Yah, don't hear much of that anymore, 2:03:31.000 --> 2:03:33.879 but you are hearing from some of those same sources 2:03:33.880 --> 2:03:37.840 that were so happy about wolves being reintroduced to the 2:03:37.880 --> 2:03:42.400 state of like, oh boy, you know, this is kind 2:03:42.400 --> 2:03:46.280 of hard. This is kind of just because now there's 2:03:46.440 --> 2:03:49.800 as these wolves are getting into the predicted types of friction. 2:03:50.120 --> 2:03:51.400 There's a lot of buyer's remorse. 2:03:51.600 --> 2:03:53.720 There's a yeah, there's like, well, I didn't know it 2:03:53.760 --> 2:03:55.880 would be that, or I didn't know those wolves would 2:03:55.880 --> 2:03:59.120 be here. I thought, you know, So it's not like 2:03:59.200 --> 2:04:00.680 this one hundred percent dedication. 2:04:02.160 --> 2:04:02.440 It's not. 2:04:04.000 --> 2:04:07.840 Yeah, not so much, and It is just interesting because 2:04:08.840 --> 2:04:10.920 third time, now, like our memories. 2:04:10.560 --> 2:04:13.440 Are short, it just proved lethal management for him. 2:04:13.760 --> 2:04:14.760 Yeah, oh they did. 2:04:14.960 --> 2:04:18.920 Yeah, and there's an official pack now because some of 2:04:18.960 --> 2:04:19.680 them had a couple. 2:04:19.920 --> 2:04:22.800 Oh yeah, I just saw an article came out. Yeah. 2:04:23.480 --> 2:04:26.280 That goes back to I think if the vote what 2:04:26.400 --> 2:04:29.400 was that Prop one one for in Colorado? If the 2:04:29.480 --> 2:04:31.480 vote was held today, I don't think it would pass. Nope, 2:04:31.760 --> 2:04:34.160 I really don't. Uh, but it goes back to what 2:04:34.160 --> 2:04:36.120 you were saying, people didn't know what they were voting for. Oh, 2:04:36.160 --> 2:04:37.680 I didn't know. It meant that. I didn't know it 2:04:37.720 --> 2:04:38.040 meant this. 2:04:38.560 --> 2:04:39.920 It was worded very weird. 2:04:40.000 --> 2:04:41.000 Yeah it was. 2:04:41.120 --> 2:04:42.880 It was worded in a way that it was sort 2:04:42.920 --> 2:04:45.600 of like a mandate that they, I don't know, set 2:04:45.600 --> 2:04:49.520 into motion a recovery plan or yeah, you know, it 2:04:49.560 --> 2:04:51.560 was under It was understood, but the wording could have 2:04:51.600 --> 2:04:52.160 been confusing. 2:04:52.200 --> 2:04:53.839 I think the wording is always confusing. 2:04:53.960 --> 2:04:56.440 I mean, even people who are trained to be able 2:04:56.480 --> 2:04:59.440 to read through these things and you readthrow a crapdown 2:04:59.480 --> 2:05:03.480 of them. I feel like it's always it's always like 2:05:03.520 --> 2:05:07.440 a word play. There's always like it. So people don't 2:05:08.040 --> 2:05:10.040 like for the lion thing, who's going to go read 2:05:10.120 --> 2:05:12.160 through this thing and see that there's you know, this 2:05:12.360 --> 2:05:15.480 trophy language put in there that could be transposed onto 2:05:15.800 --> 2:05:17.760 elk and deer and stuff in the future, didn't. 2:05:17.760 --> 2:05:19.760 I just see a clip of Cam Haynes. He said, 2:05:19.920 --> 2:05:22.520 I read it and I didn't know how to vote, 2:05:23.280 --> 2:05:25.680 like if it was if it was me voting, because 2:05:25.800 --> 2:05:26.920 I don't know what I was supposed to do. 2:05:27.160 --> 2:05:29.040 Yeah, just because the way the whole thing. 2:05:28.920 --> 2:05:30.120 Was a word. 2:05:31.960 --> 2:05:37.320 On the issues, the broader wolf issue. I'm of the 2:05:37.360 --> 2:05:39.360 opinion and I think you could you could arrive at 2:05:39.360 --> 2:05:43.160 this from a religious perspective, You could arrive at this 2:05:43.200 --> 2:05:48.680 from a secular historical view would be that there are animals, 2:05:49.920 --> 2:05:53.640 there are wild animals that live on our landscape, okay, 2:05:54.880 --> 2:06:00.440 that have just been there. They're there because God place 2:06:00.520 --> 2:06:03.640 them there. They're there because these billions of years of 2:06:03.680 --> 2:06:09.040 Earth history and all all these evolutions and ecological upheavals 2:06:09.080 --> 2:06:10.680 and things a place in there. But there's a there's 2:06:10.720 --> 2:06:15.880 a static nature to wildlife. And you got and you 2:06:15.920 --> 2:06:17.800 go look and you go like, Okay, at what point 2:06:18.720 --> 2:06:24.560 in history do I go and declare it being normal? Okay? 2:06:25.640 --> 2:06:28.360 Meaning some people would argue, well, the place ischine. That 2:06:28.360 --> 2:06:30.440 should be normal, and we should bring back mammos and 2:06:30.480 --> 2:06:33.040 bring back short face bears and turn them all loose, 2:06:33.080 --> 2:06:35.440 because that's when humans showed up in the New World, 2:06:35.440 --> 2:06:38.800 and so normal should be that day. I tend to 2:06:39.040 --> 2:06:44.960 view normal normal in my mind, just because you have 2:06:45.000 --> 2:06:48.000 to pick an arbitrary point. Normal in my mind is 2:06:48.040 --> 2:06:55.120 the distribution of wildlife at the time of European contact. 2:06:55.880 --> 2:07:04.000 And I don't I don't believe in removing certain turtles 2:07:04.520 --> 2:07:07.360 from the landscape. I don't believe in removing certain birds 2:07:07.360 --> 2:07:10.760 from the landscape. I don't believe in removing certain invertebrates 2:07:10.800 --> 2:07:14.600 from the landscape. I don't like extinction. I don't like 2:07:14.680 --> 2:07:17.360 extra patient. I just don't. I don't care what it is. 2:07:17.400 --> 2:07:20.720 I don't like extinction and extirpation. And here's where it 2:07:20.720 --> 2:07:23.240 gets like a little bit complicated, because I do think 2:07:23.400 --> 2:07:28.800 that a right like like animals have a right to 2:07:28.800 --> 2:07:32.800 be on the landscape. There's a reality that we live 2:07:32.840 --> 2:07:36.440 in and all of those spieceis are going to be 2:07:36.920 --> 2:07:39.680 need to be managed from a very human perspective of 2:07:40.680 --> 2:07:42.680 what are our needs and what are the balancing thing 2:07:42.760 --> 2:07:44.360 because we're here. 2:07:44.960 --> 2:07:47.480 And we're the biggest consumers of everything, and we affect 2:07:47.520 --> 2:07:49.720 more change. We never even have to leave your living 2:07:49.760 --> 2:07:51.160 room to affect what happens out. 2:07:51.040 --> 2:07:51.400 In the woods. 2:07:51.480 --> 2:07:56.760 Yeah, and as we as we discovered, like in certain areas, 2:07:56.800 --> 2:08:01.080 like with forest management, not doing anything is not the 2:08:01.120 --> 2:08:03.400 answer in a lot of in a lot of areas, 2:08:03.480 --> 2:08:05.680 not doing anything, letting it do its own natural thing 2:08:06.760 --> 2:08:10.560 isn't the answer, right, because we've we're here, Yeah. 2:08:10.360 --> 2:08:10.800 We're here. 2:08:10.880 --> 2:08:12.240 We've stirred things up so much. 2:08:12.240 --> 2:08:13.400 We got LODs everywhere. 2:08:13.520 --> 2:08:16.480 We consume all these different you know, things that we 2:08:16.880 --> 2:08:21.160 take out of wood or fuel and rocks and sand, 2:08:21.200 --> 2:08:24.880 and sure everything's disrupted by by man. And there's what 2:08:25.000 --> 2:08:26.560 eight billion of us on the on the planet. 2:08:26.640 --> 2:08:26.800 Now. 2:08:27.280 --> 2:08:30.280 Yeah, I like grizzly bears. Yeah, I like seeing them. 2:08:30.360 --> 2:08:32.240 I've never been sad to see a grizzly bear. I 2:08:32.280 --> 2:08:34.520 love grizzly bears. I don't think grizzly bears should be 2:08:34.600 --> 2:08:35.560 listed under the. 2:08:35.680 --> 2:08:37.360 Es A right, agreed. 2:08:37.760 --> 2:08:40.720 It's like both of those things are simultaneously true for me. 2:08:40.840 --> 2:08:46.240 I love them. It's time to come off the list. 2:08:46.760 --> 2:08:49.360 You said a lot right there, So you went, you 2:08:49.400 --> 2:08:52.640 went back thousands of years for animals and you brought 2:08:52.720 --> 2:08:55.040 up God or you brought up evolution, whatever it is 2:08:55.040 --> 2:08:59.640 that that people believe. I think the same idea exists 2:08:59.640 --> 2:09:02.880 for humans because people say, oh, they were here first 2:09:03.520 --> 2:09:08.760 or it's their home. Well, where are we from? You know, 2:09:09.400 --> 2:09:12.240 where exactly are we from? If you believe in the 2:09:12.280 --> 2:09:15.920 evolutionary process or the creation process, what we still land 2:09:15.960 --> 2:09:17.440 here on earth? 2:09:17.840 --> 2:09:20.600 Like imagine someone in Africa saying, well, they were here first? Yeah, 2:09:21.200 --> 2:09:23.120 define who's there right right? 2:09:24.200 --> 2:09:26.560 And it's always just an interesting It really throws me 2:09:26.600 --> 2:09:28.080 off when I when I hear that a lot, the 2:09:28.120 --> 2:09:32.040 whole they were here first thing and you know, basically, 2:09:32.240 --> 2:09:35.720 but the other thing that you brought up about grizzlies 2:09:35.720 --> 2:09:38.240 and ESA and you brought it up earlier with some billboards. 2:09:40.280 --> 2:09:44.320 It wasn't a holl sponsored billboard, but I designed maybe 2:09:44.360 --> 2:09:48.240 you've seen it. I think it's at the north end 2:09:48.280 --> 2:09:53.919 of Yellowstone in the South in Wyoming, there's a billboard 2:09:53.960 --> 2:09:56.680 that says, I think it's like grizzly bear recovery is 2:09:56.680 --> 2:10:00.640 a conservation success story. So I designed that or whoever 2:10:00.640 --> 2:10:06.960 put it up, and that inspired apparently all these other 2:10:07.000 --> 2:10:10.040 billboards that I think some of the trapping organizations or 2:10:10.080 --> 2:10:14.440 whoever the ones that you mentioned earlier that they've been 2:10:14.440 --> 2:10:18.760 putting up, because it wasn't the typical billboard that would 2:10:18.800 --> 2:10:23.000 come from hunters. Because what I was presented with was, hey, 2:10:23.000 --> 2:10:25.400 do you have any ideas on this on billboards? I said, well, 2:10:25.440 --> 2:10:28.800 what do you got this? And it was like a 2:10:28.840 --> 2:10:31.760 bunch of furs hanging and something like smoke a pack 2:10:31.800 --> 2:10:34.080 of day I don't know, something like that. 2:10:33.240 --> 2:10:37.600 And I'm like, Okay, where are you putting popular bumper? 2:10:38.520 --> 2:10:38.680 Right? 2:10:38.840 --> 2:10:42.720 Yes? Where where exactly are you putting this? Well, you know, 2:10:42.840 --> 2:10:48.720 the entrance to Yellowstone, Like, Okay, who's coming in and out? Tourists? 2:10:48.760 --> 2:10:52.840 Probably people who don't hunt. I can't believe you're thinking 2:10:52.880 --> 2:10:55.040 this way, So let me work on it. Let's let's 2:10:55.120 --> 2:10:59.160 let's take the grizzly bear situation. Let's look at the 2:10:59.240 --> 2:11:02.840 success story. It is a success story. Let's make it that. 2:11:03.080 --> 2:11:07.200 Let's challenge the public who's coming in. Let's challenge the 2:11:07.200 --> 2:11:09.560 the the anna hunters with kind of their own rhetoric 2:11:10.640 --> 2:11:13.400 and give the actual success story here. We have so 2:11:13.480 --> 2:11:15.960 many things and positive things that we can talk about 2:11:16.440 --> 2:11:19.360 that we've done in the last one hundred years. That's 2:11:19.400 --> 2:11:21.080 the kind of stuff we need the market. That's the 2:11:21.160 --> 2:11:23.160 kind of stuff, you know, that that we need to 2:11:23.160 --> 2:11:28.960 get out there. And apparently apparently that billboard really struck 2:11:29.000 --> 2:11:31.440 a nerve with with the Anna hunting orgs because they're 2:11:31.480 --> 2:11:35.120 not they're shoot. We need to we need to combat 2:11:35.160 --> 2:11:37.400 that a little bit because that's not their usual strategy. 2:11:37.720 --> 2:11:41.160 Usually it's easy. Usually it's you know, some organizations got 2:11:41.200 --> 2:11:45.800 a you know, trailer going down the highway representing the organization. 2:11:45.840 --> 2:11:48.240 They got a picture of a wolf and a and 2:11:48.320 --> 2:11:50.840 a scope ratical over the over the wolf. I'm like, 2:11:51.720 --> 2:11:54.120 is that so that's your one chance to talk to 2:11:54.560 --> 2:11:58.200 the general public and that's what they see is just 2:11:58.720 --> 2:12:01.360 kill them all to minds with that, that's what we're 2:12:01.360 --> 2:12:04.680 putting out. Yeah, you're not winning anything, but it just 2:12:04.920 --> 2:12:06.720 it made me think of that when you brought that up. 2:12:06.880 --> 2:12:09.400 You know, back to the optics thing and back to 2:12:09.080 --> 2:12:12.760 to to messaging and you know where I think we 2:12:12.800 --> 2:12:15.160 should be as an as an industry what we should 2:12:15.160 --> 2:12:16.240 be doing the. 2:12:16.920 --> 2:12:20.560 Question with with grizzlies too. That's interesting in how people 2:12:20.560 --> 2:12:23.000 position it to say that it's hunters that want them off. 2:12:23.120 --> 2:12:25.080 People lose sight of the fact that you know, who 2:12:25.200 --> 2:12:28.880 keeps trying to get them off. Is the federal agency 2:12:29.840 --> 2:12:32.600 that has managed them since the seventies, Yeah, the US 2:12:32.680 --> 2:12:35.680 Fish and Wildlife Service. Yeah, are the ones moving to 2:12:35.760 --> 2:12:39.040 remove them from the list? Ye, they're getting like the 2:12:39.120 --> 2:12:43.120 management agent, the federal management agency is getting blocked from 2:12:43.520 --> 2:12:45.640 doing what they think their job is to do, which 2:12:45.720 --> 2:12:49.000 is removing from the list. You leave you can leave 2:12:49.040 --> 2:12:50.840 the states out of that for a minute, because it's 2:12:50.880 --> 2:12:52.120 it's them saying. 2:12:51.880 --> 2:12:55.840 It's imagine that job. You know, you got to do this, 2:12:55.960 --> 2:12:57.640 but I'm not going to give you any tools to 2:12:57.680 --> 2:12:58.080 do that with. 2:12:58.240 --> 2:12:58.440 You know. 2:12:58.480 --> 2:13:00.880 It's like, yeah, it's it. That's the thing to get 2:13:00.960 --> 2:13:02.760 lost here. And it was the same thing with wolves. 2:13:02.800 --> 2:13:06.960 The US Fish and Wildlife Service moved to remove wolves 2:13:06.960 --> 2:13:09.920 from the list. They initiate the conversation. 2:13:12.320 --> 2:13:17.560 Yeah, I would love to get somebody on that we 2:13:17.600 --> 2:13:20.720 can talk about like accurate numbers of lethal removal, because 2:13:20.800 --> 2:13:23.840 like when I went back and did the Idaho bear 2:13:23.960 --> 2:13:29.000 capture with Idaho Fishing Game, it was I think it 2:13:29.320 --> 2:13:35.160 was just prior to July fourth weekend and at that point, 2:13:36.040 --> 2:13:39.160 Montana had killed twenty six grizzly bears that that year. 2:13:40.560 --> 2:13:45.000 For you know, conflict mitigation basically yeah, and you know, 2:13:45.120 --> 2:13:51.520 and typically Wyoming's twice what Montana is and you know, 2:13:51.600 --> 2:13:56.040 Idaho is a handful. So and that's what I see 2:13:56.040 --> 2:13:59.040 all the time, is like, well, if you d list 2:13:59.120 --> 2:14:02.600 hunters are going to kill the it's like, well, somebody's 2:14:02.680 --> 2:14:03.520 killing him right now. 2:14:03.920 --> 2:14:04.200 Yeah. 2:14:04.360 --> 2:14:04.480 Right. 2:14:05.560 --> 2:14:08.240 California is a great example of that with with the Mountalliance. 2:14:09.240 --> 2:14:11.960 And it doesn't it doesn't mean yeah to your point, 2:14:12.600 --> 2:14:15.640 I asked that question to uh, all right, if grizzly 2:14:15.640 --> 2:14:19.720 bears are delisted, what's that mean? Maybe twenty hunting tags 2:14:19.720 --> 2:14:20.360 in Montana. 2:14:20.800 --> 2:14:24.480 Well, the first year it was zero. Okay, the first 2:14:24.560 --> 2:14:28.000 year it was twenty four and Wyoming okay one, and 2:14:28.040 --> 2:14:31.120 it which was like I love it exauist the classic wholming. Yeah, 2:14:31.160 --> 2:14:34.560 it's twenty four in Wyoming. Idaho was doing a symbolic 2:14:34.680 --> 2:14:36.720 one just to exercise the right. 2:14:36.600 --> 2:14:39.520 Shirt, which was only open to residents, and I got 2:14:39.560 --> 2:14:41.000 to apply for that tag. 2:14:41.520 --> 2:14:46.640 In Montana on the fish drop, the Fishing Game Agency, 2:14:47.680 --> 2:14:51.840 Montana's Fishing Game Agency under Martha Williams at the time, 2:14:52.960 --> 2:14:55.320 decided to sit it out. 2:14:55.720 --> 2:14:56.960 Didn't want to deal with the bs. 2:14:57.000 --> 2:14:59.480 Probably that just they wanted to see I mean, while 2:14:59.520 --> 2:15:03.400 they want to and the smart thing, I don't want 2:15:03.400 --> 2:15:06.120 to put it that way, not smart thing, but I mean, 2:15:06.360 --> 2:15:08.400 these other states are conducting tag draws. 2:15:10.040 --> 2:15:13.240 They went through, you know, they spent some money on that. 2:15:13.720 --> 2:15:17.320 They're like they were, they were rolling, and so I 2:15:17.320 --> 2:15:19.360 I don't I don't want to, you know, I'm not. 2:15:19.520 --> 2:15:21.800 I was involved in all the conversations, but I could picture. 2:15:21.960 --> 2:15:24.040 I could picture both ways. I could picture an eagerness 2:15:24.040 --> 2:15:28.560 to exercise the right. I could also picture saying I'm 2:15:28.560 --> 2:15:31.680 gonna I have a feeling about where this might go 2:15:31.720 --> 2:15:35.320 in the courts, and I'm not gonna go start printing 2:15:36.880 --> 2:15:40.040 tags and whatnot because I don't have. 2:15:39.960 --> 2:15:42.320 The whole system to return people's money. 2:15:42.360 --> 2:15:44.200 I don't know that this is going through, right. 2:15:44.560 --> 2:15:47.840 Yeah, but that brings up a good Wyoming point too, right, 2:15:47.920 --> 2:15:51.120 because you know, Wyoming's like, yep, we're gonna hunt grizzly 2:15:51.120 --> 2:15:58.600 bears the twenty tags. And again, I in Idaho at 2:15:58.600 --> 2:16:01.160 the time, and I was our aready working with Idaho 2:16:01.520 --> 2:16:04.320 Fishing Game to a degree to figure out how to 2:16:04.440 --> 2:16:12.800 change the requirements for bear harvest in Idaho because grizzly 2:16:12.880 --> 2:16:16.600 is such a political football and we're staring at Wyoming, 2:16:16.880 --> 2:16:20.600 where it's like, you don't legally have to take anything 2:16:20.680 --> 2:16:26.000 other than the trophy parts. We're like, well, if this 2:16:26.040 --> 2:16:27.760 isn't going to blow up in our face, then nothing 2:16:27.800 --> 2:16:29.040 will right. 2:16:29.320 --> 2:16:30.000 And it's like that. 2:16:30.480 --> 2:16:38.160 It's another example of hunters probably following in line with 2:16:38.200 --> 2:16:40.959 some anti hunters. It's like, oh, I bet if you 2:16:41.000 --> 2:16:43.520 made them take the meat, they wouldn't want to do it, right. 2:16:45.480 --> 2:16:48.400 That's one of the Maggie's still there. That's one of 2:16:48.440 --> 2:16:53.920 the things Maggie that I know American Bear Foundation and 2:16:55.280 --> 2:16:59.120 Wyoming Wildlife Federation is wanting to get pushed through in 2:16:59.160 --> 2:17:02.879 Wyoming is it's one of the few states that doesn't 2:17:02.879 --> 2:17:03.879 have wanton waste laws. 2:17:04.120 --> 2:17:04.480 Iaho. 2:17:05.520 --> 2:17:08.119 It's you don't have to take it in Idaho. 2:17:07.879 --> 2:17:12.280 Now still not on black bear on bear, which was 2:17:12.400 --> 2:17:14.880 according when I was digging in the weedze on that 2:17:15.040 --> 2:17:23.160 it was burdensome to the state to uh have to 2:17:24.760 --> 2:17:26.879 you can just dispose of the carcass and the landfill 2:17:26.959 --> 2:17:30.640 for problem bears or the state would also have to 2:17:30.680 --> 2:17:33.840 adhere to the same regulations, was the way it was 2:17:33.879 --> 2:17:36.879 explained to me. Yeah, as as a hunter, harvest can. 2:17:37.000 --> 2:17:37.600 Be true. 2:17:40.280 --> 2:17:43.680 If you had if the state has wanton waste laws 2:17:43.720 --> 2:17:46.039 on ducks, and they got wanton waste laws on elk, 2:17:46.080 --> 2:17:48.960 and they got wanton waste laws on deer and doves. 2:17:51.720 --> 2:17:54.879 It would just by a matter of logic extended, they 2:17:54.879 --> 2:18:00.920 would have wanton waste laws on black bears. Right, I'm 2:18:00.920 --> 2:18:02.240 gonna share. Let me share you with you. I want 2:18:02.240 --> 2:18:05.879 to share with you. Quick quote, uh John Mack the 2:18:06.040 --> 2:18:15.600 historian John mac farrager who John mac ferriger, a historian 2:18:15.800 --> 2:18:22.400 who is raised and partly educated in California, and describing 2:18:22.520 --> 2:18:25.720 the frontier of colonial America, you want to already said? 2:18:27.200 --> 2:18:32.560 He said, European settlers and Native Americans alike considered bear 2:18:32.640 --> 2:18:39.560 meat the prime game meat. Venison was inferior eating. So 2:18:40.560 --> 2:18:43.560 I I don't know why if a state is going 2:18:43.640 --> 2:18:45.879 to go through the trouble spelling out wanton waste laws, 2:18:45.879 --> 2:18:49.879 they wouldn't extend it to Yeah. Why is that the exception? 2:18:50.400 --> 2:18:55.519 Yea uns because some squeamish people think it's icky. 2:18:55.280 --> 2:18:56.920 Maybe the trick and osis thing. 2:18:57.240 --> 2:18:59.080 Well, then they should have it. They eat then that they. 2:18:59.000 --> 2:19:05.600 Then I'm not you must cook it, Yeah, like. 2:19:05.560 --> 2:19:08.320 Your chicken and like your pork, and like your bacon. 2:19:08.440 --> 2:19:11.760 You gotta cook it exactly and bear is delicious. How's 2:19:11.760 --> 2:19:13.440 he going to say? I think that's my favorite game 2:19:13.480 --> 2:19:16.960 to eat is black bear. I absolutely love it. And 2:19:17.000 --> 2:19:18.879 I don't know if it's because if it's a it 2:19:18.920 --> 2:19:19.760 could be a combination. 2:19:19.840 --> 2:19:24.760 Are you coming from A I'm coming from definitely. 2:19:26.480 --> 2:19:29.760 You don't got to convince us. But like, I went 2:19:29.879 --> 2:19:33.879 on a bear hunt in Idaho where. 2:19:33.680 --> 2:19:36.119 There was a group. 2:19:35.800 --> 2:19:38.480 Of hunters and it was hound hunting, and I was 2:19:38.520 --> 2:19:41.720 the only one it took that bear meat home. 2:19:41.920 --> 2:19:44.520 So it's like, yeah, but buck Bowden just told you 2:19:46.120 --> 2:19:48.600 it's an exception for one of his clients to take. 2:19:48.480 --> 2:19:51.120 His moose meat. It's like a convenience thing. It's like 2:19:51.320 --> 2:19:53.160 I don't want to be bothered with it, which is. 2:19:54.360 --> 2:19:55.560 Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. 2:19:55.560 --> 2:19:57.519 I had a friend that went on a bear hunt 2:19:57.720 --> 2:20:03.000 in Canada and they were so flabbergas that he wanted 2:20:03.000 --> 2:20:04.680 to bring his bear home from the bear hunt. They 2:20:04.680 --> 2:20:06.199 tried to convince him that he couldn't. 2:20:07.000 --> 2:20:08.240 He did that to me in Quebec. 2:20:08.560 --> 2:20:09.880 Yeah, he had to be like, what do you mean, 2:20:09.879 --> 2:20:12.040 I can't? He just can't because of this that and 2:20:12.080 --> 2:20:14.959 their thing. So he started making some calls around and 2:20:14.959 --> 2:20:17.279 he's like, listen, I can, and I'm gonna. 2:20:17.560 --> 2:20:17.920 Yeah. 2:20:18.080 --> 2:20:19.480 I had to fight with him about it. 2:20:19.720 --> 2:20:23.039 I left two bears in Quebec and this is like 2:20:23.160 --> 2:20:25.400 twenty years ago now, and the guy's like, no, you 2:20:25.440 --> 2:20:26.640 can't take them here. 2:20:26.840 --> 2:20:28.040 They're riddled with worms. 2:20:28.120 --> 2:20:29.560 Oh no, they were giving them like a like a 2:20:29.720 --> 2:20:33.280 regulation thing the border. Well, he did all of his 2:20:33.320 --> 2:20:33.840 own homework. 2:20:33.920 --> 2:20:36.160 I was going to fly it back because I flew there. 2:20:36.200 --> 2:20:38.920 I mean I didn't drive. I was living in Arizona, Quebecs, 2:20:39.200 --> 2:20:42.760 you know, but m Yeah, they wouldn't let me take 2:20:42.800 --> 2:20:45.160 it back. And then I found out afterwards when I 2:20:45.160 --> 2:20:47.480 got back that it was bs that I had. You know, 2:20:47.520 --> 2:20:49.640 I didn't just brought it to a meat process or 2:20:49.640 --> 2:20:51.520 maybe got a frozen and chipped or whatever. 2:20:51.640 --> 2:20:51.840 Yeah. 2:20:53.560 --> 2:20:55.000 He didn't even get my heights. 2:20:55.120 --> 2:20:55.720 Never got them. 2:20:55.800 --> 2:20:56.840 Yeah, it was weird. 2:20:57.040 --> 2:21:01.640 If people want to debate the merits of salvage requirements, 2:21:02.959 --> 2:21:05.920 debate the merits of salvage requirements, But if you're gonna 2:21:05.959 --> 2:21:08.600 apply salvage requirements to game animals, I mean it just 2:21:08.600 --> 2:21:11.400 seems like it can just apply if you like, I 2:21:11.440 --> 2:21:13.080 know what side I would argue on. But if you 2:21:13.080 --> 2:21:15.240 want a debate, like, can the government tell you to 2:21:15.360 --> 2:21:20.680 remove certain stuff from the woods. Alaska uses salvage requirements 2:21:20.720 --> 2:21:24.080 in a way to almost like guide's activities. They have 2:21:24.200 --> 2:21:26.320 areas where they're like, you have to bring the moose 2:21:26.400 --> 2:21:28.600 ribs out on the rack. I think they even had 2:21:28.600 --> 2:21:32.680 an area where you needed to remove the liver. They 2:21:32.720 --> 2:21:35.240 got areas where certain permits if you kill a moose, 2:21:35.280 --> 2:21:39.440 you gotta cut its antler in half, muscos, you gotta 2:21:39.520 --> 2:21:41.960 destroy its trophy value if you're gonna hunt the area. 2:21:42.959 --> 2:21:45.400 So they're and this is not a softy state, I'll 2:21:45.440 --> 2:21:50.400 point out, No, they're guiding. They're directly saying, here's who 2:21:50.480 --> 2:21:53.440 we want. These are the people we're looking for. If 2:21:53.440 --> 2:21:55.280 you're gonna hunt moose in this area, you're gonna be 2:21:55.280 --> 2:21:56.960 the kind of guy that's gonna bring the ribs out 2:21:57.000 --> 2:21:59.440 on the bone, or you're gonna be the kind of 2:21:59.440 --> 2:22:01.520 guy that's willing to cut that antler in half and 2:22:01.560 --> 2:22:07.080 then bring it out because it's you know, they're they're they're. 2:22:06.920 --> 2:22:08.440 Because they want to see you pack out an extra 2:22:08.480 --> 2:22:09.320 couple hundred pounds. 2:22:09.320 --> 2:22:12.520 They're just they're sort of playing there. I mean, I'll 2:22:12.920 --> 2:22:16.440 put it gently, I mean they're playing favorites with certain 2:22:16.720 --> 2:22:17.360 user groups. 2:22:18.640 --> 2:22:20.279 Can you clue those antlers back together? 2:22:20.440 --> 2:22:22.840 No, for sure you can't. Like the state of the 2:22:22.879 --> 2:22:26.960 State of Montana two years ago they changed the regulations 2:22:26.959 --> 2:22:28.880 to where you don't have to keep your duck legs yep. 2:22:29.200 --> 2:22:31.480 And I'm like, I'm the type of person where I'm like, 2:22:31.480 --> 2:22:33.080 if you don't know how to cook a duck leg 2:22:33.120 --> 2:22:35.000 and eat it, you shouldn't be hunting ducks. 2:22:35.040 --> 2:22:41.360 Sure, pretend your game regulation? Yeah, tell us How? Tell 2:22:41.400 --> 2:22:44.680 us how people can find out about how and read 2:22:44.800 --> 2:22:47.320 the what you guys get involved in? 2:22:48.200 --> 2:22:51.879 How for wildlife dot org social media, we basically do 2:22:51.920 --> 2:22:57.039 everything on Instagram. It's just the path we chose. That's 2:22:57.080 --> 2:23:01.640 how underscore org and uh uh, you can sign up 2:23:01.680 --> 2:23:04.920 for free alerts so when we do have actions, you 2:23:04.959 --> 2:23:10.200 get those emails. Those emails are very detailed. We work 2:23:10.280 --> 2:23:13.920 with a lot of state partners we call them conservation partners, 2:23:14.320 --> 2:23:16.480 but basically to get on the right track with everything, 2:23:16.520 --> 2:23:19.000 it's not us and how saying we should do this, 2:23:19.160 --> 2:23:22.119 we should write it up this way. We're very very 2:23:22.160 --> 2:23:25.440 reliant on who we consider the experts. So when you 2:23:25.440 --> 2:23:28.959 get that information, it's probably going to be the best 2:23:29.040 --> 2:23:32.200 info you find on that on that issue on you know, 2:23:32.840 --> 2:23:35.800 here it is broken down and then here's how you 2:23:35.800 --> 2:23:36.440 get involved. 2:23:36.640 --> 2:23:40.039 And you guys covered you got what is your explain 2:23:40.040 --> 2:23:42.200 to people what your sort of jurisdiction is around the country, 2:23:42.200 --> 2:23:43.640 Like what states do you follow? 2:23:43.680 --> 2:23:48.840 The issues in every everything? It depends on how much time. 2:23:49.120 --> 2:23:51.920 We're very small. It depends on how much time we have, 2:23:52.160 --> 2:23:55.560 the how much time we have to act on the issue. 2:23:55.600 --> 2:23:58.039 Sometimes it's it'll come up and we got to do 2:23:58.080 --> 2:24:00.360 something in five days. It's it's really how. 2:24:00.440 --> 2:24:02.840 It's whether or not we can affect change on it too. 2:24:03.040 --> 2:24:06.560 Yeah, And our our system is kind of complex, so 2:24:06.600 --> 2:24:11.520 it takes some time to build that. But we we meet, 2:24:11.560 --> 2:24:16.080 you know, with with our group with Everett he Everett 2:24:16.080 --> 2:24:18.280 had Lee he's a part of hall and and Mike Costello, 2:24:18.520 --> 2:24:21.240 who's uh, who's a part of holl And. Then it's 2:24:21.320 --> 2:24:24.320 John and myself and we have a few writers besides that. 2:24:24.320 --> 2:24:28.039 That's that's it. So we're heavily relying on those. On 2:24:28.120 --> 2:24:30.480 those partners, we decide is this a good thing for 2:24:30.560 --> 2:24:34.000 us to get involved in, will it be effective? Does 2:24:34.000 --> 2:24:36.440 the bill have legs? There's that too, because I don't 2:24:36.440 --> 2:24:39.400 want to waste people's time there's thousands of bills. 2:24:39.560 --> 2:24:42.840 Yeah, so you mean things that are just gestures. 2:24:43.200 --> 2:24:44.480 Yeah, there's so many of those. 2:24:44.720 --> 2:24:45.840 We had one the other day. 2:24:45.879 --> 2:24:47.880 You actually told me yesterday that it was there was 2:24:47.879 --> 2:24:49.360 all my care. You take a look at this because 2:24:49.360 --> 2:24:51.080 we had one of our partners reached out, he's like, hey, 2:24:51.120 --> 2:24:51.840 can you look into us? 2:24:52.240 --> 2:24:54.160 A lot of people reach out, like from all over 2:24:54.160 --> 2:24:56.720 the world really actually, hey can you help us with this? 2:24:56.760 --> 2:24:59.000 Can you help us with that? So trying to kind 2:24:59.000 --> 2:25:02.680 of boil that down and see what's really important, balance 2:25:02.720 --> 2:25:05.120 it with our time and you know what can be impactful. 2:25:05.160 --> 2:25:08.039 That's that's definitely a challenge. But again, we really we 2:25:08.160 --> 2:25:10.400 really rely on our on our partners. 2:25:10.000 --> 2:25:13.080 And you guys will often send you guys will often 2:25:13.200 --> 2:25:18.959 send your audience outside of Howell to where they need 2:25:19.320 --> 2:25:23.360 where like you'll alert them and send them to other 2:25:23.480 --> 2:25:26.200 partners who are positioned to take on that. 2:25:26.840 --> 2:25:31.840 Yeah. Perfect example. Probably the largest example is is uh 2:25:32.480 --> 2:25:36.160 crw M Colorado's Responsible Wildlife Management. You've had you've had 2:25:36.240 --> 2:25:40.800 Dan on here. You know what's going on there. We 2:25:40.879 --> 2:25:45.800 recognize that they are spearheading that issue in Colorado. They 2:25:45.840 --> 2:25:48.440 are set up to campaign against it, they are set 2:25:48.520 --> 2:25:52.039 up to fight it legally. Everything you know, they're they 2:25:52.040 --> 2:25:55.600 are a C four. So in recognizing that we have 2:25:56.760 --> 2:26:01.520 made that a national issue, talk to Dan in October 2:26:01.600 --> 2:26:05.080 or September. They didn't have Instagram. I don't think he'd 2:26:05.080 --> 2:26:07.880 ever been on a podcast before. He was going to 2:26:07.959 --> 2:26:10.040 need a lot of help. Where we came in was 2:26:10.080 --> 2:26:11.760 all right, we're going to tell everybody about you and 2:26:11.800 --> 2:26:14.400 make this a national make this a national issue, and 2:26:14.480 --> 2:26:17.720 through all people John knows and the few people I 2:26:17.800 --> 2:26:19.520 know and whatnot we reached out to. 2:26:20.959 --> 2:26:22.879 I think he's been on seventy five podcasts now. 2:26:22.840 --> 2:26:26.480 Yeah, I mean I think it was through through Yannis 2:26:26.600 --> 2:26:29.440 is what eventually brought him here. But yeah, we are 2:26:29.520 --> 2:26:35.160 willing to promote other organizations to We certainly tell people 2:26:35.200 --> 2:26:37.560 who want to donate to us because they don't know 2:26:37.600 --> 2:26:39.240 any better. They're like, oh, we should donate to you 2:26:39.320 --> 2:26:41.959 for this Colorado thing. Or I'm like, no, we can't, 2:26:42.160 --> 2:26:44.760 we can't do anything there. But who you should donate to? 2:26:44.879 --> 2:26:46.160 And we should talk are these guys? 2:26:46.160 --> 2:26:46.400 Why? 2:26:47.080 --> 2:26:49.880 Because there's a misconception out there and I think I 2:26:49.920 --> 2:26:53.360 think that that number actually gets misconstrued a lot, like, oh, 2:26:53.400 --> 2:26:56.039 I don't want to you know, donate to so and 2:26:56.080 --> 2:26:59.320 so because they can use eighty percent of their other 2:26:59.400 --> 2:27:02.280 money to our salaries and blah blah blah blah blah. 2:27:02.280 --> 2:27:05.920 But the actual number is only twenty percent of your 2:27:06.160 --> 2:27:08.440 expenditure as a five oh one C three could be 2:27:08.560 --> 2:27:13.120 used towards lobbying and so everything else has to be 2:27:13.120 --> 2:27:17.160 either educational or administrative or working on projects and so 2:27:17.200 --> 2:27:19.360 on and so forth. So people take that number of 2:27:19.360 --> 2:27:23.040 the misconstrue it. So we recognized in that situation that 2:27:23.120 --> 2:27:26.240 Charles has just giving you that, Okay, if one hundred 2:27:26.280 --> 2:27:28.840 thousand dollars came to us, then we can only spend 2:27:28.920 --> 2:27:32.480 twenty thousand dollars doing it. It's money not well spent, right. 2:27:32.520 --> 2:27:35.320 We yes, we could have did a lot of educational 2:27:35.360 --> 2:27:39.240 things to make it work, but it's the person that's 2:27:39.240 --> 2:27:40.680 going to be the most effective. 2:27:40.920 --> 2:27:43.480 We want to win. Yeah, that's what we are who 2:27:43.560 --> 2:27:44.400 want We want to win. 2:27:44.640 --> 2:27:48.200 Yeah, there are rules basically is there's rules to five 2:27:48.200 --> 2:27:51.000 and one C threes. But overall, I think you know, 2:27:51.160 --> 2:27:55.560 as a organizationally, the five and one C threes, the 2:27:55.560 --> 2:27:59.680 C four is the national brands, the state, the national organizations, 2:27:59.720 --> 2:28:06.119 the state organizations, they tend to it's it's competitive. It's 2:28:06.120 --> 2:28:08.160 a little bit competitive, and if one of those orgs 2:28:08.200 --> 2:28:10.760 kind of takes on an issue, it's hard to get 2:28:10.800 --> 2:28:14.320 the other orgs to to support these guys over here 2:28:14.360 --> 2:28:18.160 who are leading that charge. When but you know, for 2:28:18.240 --> 2:28:21.760 the results that we want, we should all jump on board. 2:28:21.800 --> 2:28:23.760 We should all jump on board. Yeah, right, because we 2:28:23.760 --> 2:28:25.680 want to win this thing, right, I don't I don't 2:28:25.680 --> 2:28:28.119 care who's who's who's leading the fight or whatever. 2:28:28.120 --> 2:28:29.560 We don't need the recognition for it. 2:28:29.640 --> 2:28:32.520 Like, yeah, okay, who cares if it's this org or 2:28:32.520 --> 2:28:34.960 that org that was leading the fight. As long as 2:28:35.040 --> 2:28:39.440 everybody aligns with the same messaging and the same purpose, 2:28:39.560 --> 2:28:42.240 let's let's get there. Yeah, let's let's you know, make 2:28:42.280 --> 2:28:42.800 a difference. 2:28:42.879 --> 2:28:44.880 We'd like to actually, you know, if people ask us 2:28:44.879 --> 2:28:46.880 what our mission is or whatnot, I actually want to 2:28:46.879 --> 2:28:50.840 go out of business, which would be you know, thirty 2:28:50.920 --> 2:28:54.360 years from now. We have enough public support to make 2:28:54.360 --> 2:28:57.840 the ani hunting argument irrelevant. And I really do think 2:28:57.879 --> 2:29:01.520 that can be done through the right through the right channels. 2:29:01.520 --> 2:29:04.920 We touched on it earlier, but that can't be done. 2:29:04.959 --> 2:29:07.720 But that's our goal, actually go out of business. So 2:29:08.320 --> 2:29:11.480 because I would much rather go hunting and spend time 2:29:11.520 --> 2:29:15.039 doing the things I like to do instead of instead 2:29:15.040 --> 2:29:17.560 of this full time job which has been basically the 2:29:17.640 --> 2:29:21.360 last yeah, three years since we kind of started working 2:29:21.400 --> 2:29:21.720 on it. 2:29:22.040 --> 2:29:24.200 Or you go hunting, now, what you think about or 2:29:24.240 --> 2:29:25.760 the issue is not the fun stuff. 2:29:25.800 --> 2:29:29.160 It's yeah, I was talking the other day. We're I mean, 2:29:30.040 --> 2:29:34.320 that's my best hunting buddy right there. We hunted all 2:29:34.360 --> 2:29:37.000 over the country together. Now when we get together, we 2:29:37.080 --> 2:29:40.440 talk about how stuff instead of talking about, oh did 2:29:40.440 --> 2:29:42.959 you see that elk over there? And you know, how 2:29:42.959 --> 2:29:43.840 should we approach that? 2:29:43.920 --> 2:29:44.080 You know? 2:29:44.920 --> 2:29:47.119 And we hunt once a year now since we started 2:29:47.160 --> 2:29:51.320 that's yeah, yeah, so it takes a lot of time, 2:29:51.360 --> 2:29:52.279 but together. 2:29:52.000 --> 2:29:53.200 Once a year we still hunt a lot. 2:29:53.320 --> 2:29:54.920 Yeah together, Yeah. 2:29:54.920 --> 2:29:59.840 I gotta I gotta give you guys a plug, right, Steve, 2:29:59.879 --> 2:30:03.640 you I've heard of meat Eater experiences. Oh right, So 2:30:04.360 --> 2:30:09.560 Cypress Cove, Louisiana, we're going to be down there hosting fishing, 2:30:10.360 --> 2:30:12.560 doing a bunch of super fun stuff. A bunch of 2:30:12.640 --> 2:30:19.560 us and Howl for Wildlife is going to be donating 2:30:21.000 --> 2:30:24.680 to a spot for two people to Cypress Cove with 2:30:24.720 --> 2:30:27.000 the Meat Eater crew. Oh all, you got to do 2:30:27.080 --> 2:30:31.080 is go over to howl for Wildlife dot org and 2:30:31.520 --> 2:30:34.080 get a membership, right, and then you'll be entered to 2:30:34.120 --> 2:30:37.920 win the trip for two to Cypress Cove with everybody 2:30:38.000 --> 2:30:42.000 here at meat Eater. Now, if you want to skip 2:30:42.040 --> 2:30:46.400 that line or the random draw, you can go to 2:30:46.480 --> 2:30:50.440 the meat eater dot com forward slash Experiences and use 2:30:50.480 --> 2:30:55.440 the code howel dash five hundred dash donation and when 2:30:55.480 --> 2:30:59.360 you buy your spot to Cypress Cove, five hundred bucks 2:30:59.360 --> 2:31:02.920 goes back to howe for Wildlife dot org. Oh what 2:31:03.000 --> 2:31:07.359 do they put in howel dash five hundred dash donation? 2:31:07.959 --> 2:31:08.320 Got it? 2:31:08.800 --> 2:31:10.920 Thank you, Cal and thank you guys, Thank you, thank 2:31:10.959 --> 2:31:13.080 you appreciate that coming on the show. And we'll wait 2:31:13.120 --> 2:31:15.199 a couple of months and the whole landscape will change. 2:31:15.200 --> 2:31:16.960 You can come back on and talk about it again. Yep, 2:31:18.320 --> 2:31:21.240 you'd be like we won, all right, guys, thanks for 2:31:21.240 --> 2:31:22.240 coming on, man, Thank you. 2:31:43.000 --> 2:31:45.480 Is They looked out for Bumpey's pillar. 2:31:47.840 --> 2:31:53.080 Such abundance and be wooty they saw. But when they 2:31:53.200 --> 2:31:59.879 looked century later, that value was empty, and the animals 2:32:00.080 --> 2:32:07.960 where were gone. Now they looked at one another, they said, 2:32:08.840 --> 2:32:15.680 what will we do now? Well, our livelihoods ending Yeah, 2:32:16.560 --> 2:32:19.199 but I'll be damn if that's the last one. 2:32:19.040 --> 2:32:25.959 That I saw said. Our wildlife must be made team. 2:32:28.800 --> 2:32:29.080 M h. 2:32:31.080 --> 2:32:34.720 For our lifestyle to still. 2:32:34.520 --> 2:32:39.160 Be made. 2:32:40.640 --> 2:32:53.600 Conservation it is called mem. 2:32:50.320 --> 2:32:54.039 Yeah, this wildlife is worth. 2:33:00.200 --> 2:33:05.480 More harvest for the market, owned by the people. 2:33:05.840 --> 2:33:11.279 All all the wild things in time held trunced by all. 2:33:11.000 --> 2:33:16.560 The agent sees to be managed but not confined by 2:33:16.720 --> 2:33:23.960 state lines. And later all those sense the problem. After 2:33:24.120 --> 2:33:29.600 the war was fought and was won. Folks, our food 2:33:29.680 --> 2:33:34.520 came from the grocery, you know. He comes from chopping 2:33:34.800 --> 2:33:37.560 and semonid around nothing. 2:33:38.320 --> 2:33:43.520 Our wildlife must be maintained. 2:33:47.840 --> 2:33:52.080 For our lifestyle to still remain. 2:33:57.400 --> 2:34:09.920 Conservation. He is calling me, you have this, wowld it is. 2:34:10.040 --> 2:34:21.640 Worth Wildlife is a citizen owned renewable resource held in 2:34:21.760 --> 2:34:26.960 trust by an agency that assesses and allocates the resource 2:34:27.040 --> 2:34:30.640 in a democratic fashion, with an eye toward people utilizing 2:34:30.680 --> 2:34:35.000 it but not damaging it in the long term. 2:34:36.360 --> 2:34:47.920 Wolde must be mad to him for our lifestyle to 2:34:48.400 --> 2:35:07.000 still remain. Conservation is calling me, yeah. 2:35:04.560 --> 2:35:08.280 This wildlife is worth living. 2:35:11.520 --> 2:35:13.200 Mm hmmm. 2:35:13.920 --> 2:35:18.160 Conservation is calling me. 2:35:23.720 --> 2:35:25.280 Yea, this wildlife 2:35:27.000 --> 2:35:29.879 Is worth living.