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Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast. You can't

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Speaker 1: predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you

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Speaker 1: by First Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands,

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Speaker 1: or scouting for ELK. First Light has performance apparel to

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Speaker 1: support every hunter in every environment. Check it out at

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Speaker 1: first light dot com. F I R S T L

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Speaker 1: I T E dot com. All right, everybody, we're joined

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Speaker 1: today by John Stallone and Charles Whitman from Howell for Wildlife,

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Speaker 1: which is an organization you hear more and more about

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Speaker 1: as they have been heavily involved in some of the

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Speaker 1: fights to preserve our hunting rights around the country.

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Speaker 2: Welcome guys, Thank you for having us.

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Speaker 3: Thanks, yeah, thank you.

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Speaker 1: I know that. I think my first introduction to you

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Speaker 1: guys was was uh. Jannis was one of the first

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Speaker 1: people I heard mentioned in it, and he would maybe

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Speaker 1: I had heard of you, but doing trivia a long

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Speaker 1: time ago. I think Gianni's made a donation the Hole

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Speaker 1: for Wildlife and uh, and so he brought you guys

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Speaker 1: onto our radar. Then increasingly you guys have come up

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Speaker 1: in conversations and stuff you're working on around the Colorado

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Speaker 1: Hunting Band vote, coming up with some other issues. So

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Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to spend some time with you guys

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Speaker 1: talking about uh, some things that have happened, some things

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Speaker 1: that might happened in the efforts to preserve everyone's hunting rights.

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Speaker 1: So we will get to that shortly. Thanks for coming.

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Speaker 1: Meet it or TV YouTube channel now, not to be

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Speaker 1: confused with the YouTube channel where you watch our podcast network,

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Speaker 1: which now has its own channel. Tell him Krinn.

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Speaker 4: All right, So we've got a new podcast network, Meet

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Speaker 4: Eater podcast Network YouTube channel, which is distinct from the

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Speaker 4: Meet Eater TV YouTube channel and the mediat podcast network

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Speaker 4: channel on YouTube is going to be the place where

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Speaker 4: you can listen to and importantly watch all of our

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Speaker 4: all of the network podcasts. And if you are watching

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Speaker 4: us right now, that means you're already on that channel.

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Speaker 4: But please make sure you give it yeah welcome. Please

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Speaker 4: make sure you give a subscribe as well so that

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Speaker 4: when these pop up, you'll you'll get those alerts.

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Speaker 1: If on the regular channel, on the regular Mediator TV

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Speaker 1: YouTube channel, go right now and check out white tail edu.

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Speaker 1: So in this world you got ed not great, which

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Speaker 1: gets a lot at You got eed C, which is

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Speaker 1: your pocket night. I remember when that didn't exist. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would just it was a pocket knife. Now it's

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Speaker 1: an e DC. And then you got EDU meaning white

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Speaker 1: tail Edu on the Media to YouTube channel. It's with

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon Tony Peterson. It's a short video series running

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Speaker 1: through September. UH to get you in the mindset for

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Speaker 1: the fall hunting season and provide all kind of tips

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Speaker 1: and tricks for uh getting after white tails.

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Speaker 5: Man.

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Speaker 1: Those guys are great too. On the way on the

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Speaker 1: white tail front, I grew up hunting white tails. We

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Speaker 1: would just kind of put a tree in the same

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Speaker 1: put a tree stand in the same stuff. Yeah, out

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Speaker 1: on the point. So you just watched deer that were

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Speaker 1: five hundred. No, you couldn't see that.

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Speaker 6: Far, Tony was telling me.

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Speaker 1: And they left before I ever got it really figured out.

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Speaker 1: But these guys got it figured out.

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Speaker 6: Their number one request is people will send them on

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Speaker 6: X pins and say where would you kill a due?

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Speaker 7: Where should I?

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Speaker 6: Where should I set up?

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Speaker 2: Do?

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Speaker 3: They reply?

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Speaker 6: Their reply is listen and figure it out for yourself. Yes,

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Speaker 6: the whole teach man to fish.

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Speaker 1: Dude after hunting after Tony and I went down and

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Speaker 1: last fall and hunt some public land down in Oklahoma,

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Speaker 1: and watching that dude like uh, kind of put that

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Speaker 1: whole thing together, like just basically scouting on the fly

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Speaker 1: and then making determinations.

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Speaker 7: He's taken in all kinds of information you might know.

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Speaker 1: It's like six cents stuff, dude, it's sixth sense stuff.

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Speaker 6: Like you didn't sit there and be like, oh I

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Speaker 6: could do this.

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Speaker 8: No, it probably becomes six cents if you're constantly doing

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Speaker 8: doing something in a certain way and like keeping track

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Speaker 8: of certain things. It probably becomes like an instinct.

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Speaker 1: After what white tails are doing. When they're doing you know,

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Speaker 1: like you can take someone and show them, but you

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Speaker 1: know you might not notice, but look that's a deer trail, right,

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Speaker 1: and they'll eventually figure that out. But sort of his

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Speaker 1: his like I don't know, I think around four o'clock

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Speaker 1: he's gonna come down there, stand right there and eat

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Speaker 1: an acorn. It's it's incredible, man, he's good on those

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Speaker 1: dudes are good on white tails. It's fun to see.

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Speaker 1: We also have a new live streaming podcast called me

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Speaker 1: Eater Radio. Live starts in a few days, so you

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Speaker 1: want to check that out. It's the Field Report all

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Speaker 1: from around the country. Live correspondence from around the country

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Speaker 1: telling you what they're up to, what's going on, what's

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Speaker 1: the news in the area, what's the hot bite in

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Speaker 1: the area, what kind of tattoos did they get they

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Speaker 1: might later regret whatever. Field Reports from around the country,

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Speaker 1: Alaska to Florida, New York to Hawaii and all points

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Speaker 1: in between. You'll be hearing from some of the hardest

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Speaker 1: hitting outdoorsmen out there as they give you live reports

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Speaker 1: on what's going on in their area and in their lives.

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Speaker 4: But also co anchored by a combination of you Cal Brody, Randall, Spencer,

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Speaker 4: Yanni yep uh so nice peppering of different personalities from

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Speaker 4: across our network. And you will be able to watch

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Speaker 4: it live on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: But then you watch it later too. You want to

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Speaker 1: watch it live, watch it live, yea. Turks and Caicos

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Speaker 1: repeals the law that has all the Americans locked up.

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Speaker 1: They walked the law back a little bit that has

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Speaker 1: all the Americans locked up. If you hadn't heard about this,

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Speaker 1: We've covered this and interviewed some of the people and

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Speaker 1: covered it on our website, covered it on podcasts. Turks

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Speaker 1: and Caicos passes really strict uh gun law which which

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Speaker 1: had a minimum uh was it twelve I think twelve

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Speaker 1: years minimum jail time for gun, Yeah, for for possession

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Speaker 1: firearm possession. And the way they wrote it, we roll

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Speaker 1: up even if you had a shell and no gun

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Speaker 1: to shoot it from. And they caught. Once this law

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Speaker 1: was passed and started being strictly enforced, they caught five

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Speaker 1: American tourists summer, all of them coming out of the

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Speaker 1: country leaving Turks and Caicos with a stray round or

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Speaker 1: a stray few rounds of AMMO left over from hunting

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Speaker 1: season in their backpack. Jailed all these guys. A congressional

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Speaker 1: delegation went down there. There's a guy from Pennsylvania, so

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Speaker 1: I know, like fetterman from Pennsylvania went down there. There's

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Speaker 1: a guy from Oklahoma, so a congressman from Oklahoma, on

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Speaker 1: and on. Congressman from all these different states went down

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Speaker 1: there to try to put some heat on Turks and

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Speaker 1: Caicos to give the guys back, because clearly in this situation,

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Speaker 1: it's like, first they don't have a firearm to match

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Speaker 1: the ammo. Second they've already gotten somehow they got into

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Speaker 1: the country like.

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Speaker 7: Favor by taking Ammo out of the country.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it'd be, you know, it'd be like some

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Speaker 1: some honey Ammo. They got into the country, stayed the

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Speaker 1: whole time, and now they're leaving and you catch them

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Speaker 1: on the way out the door with a bullet or

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Speaker 1: two in their bag. And so this US congressional delegation

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Speaker 1: goes down there and says, come on, I mean, come

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Speaker 1: on right. And I had earlier I had wondered, like,

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Speaker 1: what would be the leverage that the US would apply

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Speaker 1: to Turks and Caicos. The one thing that that I

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Speaker 1: realized in some reading I did this morning. Leverage they

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Speaker 1: could apply is a state department issues of warning like

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Speaker 1: don't go to you know, warning businesses don't do business

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Speaker 1: in Turks and Caicos because they're a little over zealous,

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Speaker 1: and warn US citizens, hey be careful going to Turks

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Speaker 1: and Caicos, which can really when when you have a

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Speaker 1: country whose economy is based on tourism. So apparently that's

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Speaker 1: the pressure they put on. And meanwhile they've been slowly

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Speaker 1: letting these guys out. They held one guy in jail

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Speaker 1: for one hundred days, he got out on time, served

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Speaker 1: another guy came home because he's got bad health problems.

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Speaker 1: One of the two guys we interviewed his home. Another

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Speaker 1: one's gonna find out today or tomorrow. And meanwhile, they

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Speaker 1: walked back the wording on the they walked back the

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Speaker 1: wording on the legislation. Still still check your bags, dude.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm always yelling at my little boy because

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Speaker 1: he's super careless of twenty two shells. Put the things

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Speaker 1: back in the box.

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Speaker 7: I got detained for a little while in Anchorage.

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Speaker 2: I got I got rolled up in Mexico.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, Mexico. I'd rather get detained an anchored.

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Speaker 8: I was scary because you were in what happened there.

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Speaker 8: So again, I was coming back across the border and

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Speaker 8: I had shotgun shells underneath the back seat of my

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Speaker 8: truck because I had gotten coyote hunting, like like a

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Speaker 8: week before we went there.

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Speaker 6: Well, it's also just where shotgun shells.

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Speaker 8: Live, exactly, And you know they were just you want

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Speaker 8: a routine inspection, checking for if I was bringing fruit

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Speaker 8: or whatever. And they've found these two shells, and they

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Speaker 8: pulled me and my family the US side of the

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Speaker 8: Mexico side and Mexico side.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I got it.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, So I was kind of, you know, crap in

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Speaker 8: my pants a little bit because I didn't know. I

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Speaker 8: was there with my kids and my wife.

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Speaker 2: Luckily I had my whole fit.

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Speaker 8: My parents were with us, my uncles were with us.

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Speaker 8: We were like down there for a whole thing. So

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Speaker 8: eventually they just took the shells, throw them out and

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Speaker 8: let us go. But it was a little harry for

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Speaker 8: a little bit there.

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Speaker 6: I want to I want to know, like what percentage

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Speaker 6: of government spending goes into stuff like this when we

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Speaker 6: all bitch about government overspending, Like, well, we had to

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Speaker 6: send a congressional delegation because some folks on vacation had

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Speaker 6: a couple of shells in their pocket. I'd just like

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Speaker 6: to know. But I could guarantee the like, thank God

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Speaker 6: for the US government.

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Speaker 7: They probably worked in a little vacation while they were

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Speaker 7: down there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's totally hilarious. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: say the name. But there's a subject we've been wanting

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Speaker 1: to have h we wanting to do another episode on

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Speaker 1: wild horses, wildhorse, the wildhorse wild Borough subject. So I

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Speaker 1: was telling Krin, was like, I really want to find

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Speaker 1: like a guest who's got deep, deep history, deep personal

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Speaker 1: on the ground history with the issue of wild horses,

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Speaker 1: the wild Horse and Burrough Protection Act, unintended consequences of

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Speaker 1: the wild Horse and Burrough Protection Act, the kind of

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Speaker 1: insanity of shipping these horses to Oklahoma and paying farmers

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Speaker 1: to raise them until they die of old age because

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Speaker 1: there's no other outlet for them. All that, and I

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Speaker 1: start eyeballing this guy that seems great on the subject.

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Speaker 1: And I said to Krint, once you find this guy

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Speaker 1: and see if you'll come on the show. And last

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Speaker 1: night Krinn sends me a article and like we'll share

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Speaker 1: articles all the time. And I'm reading the article thinking

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Speaker 1: that there's like a hunting and fishing angle to it.

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Speaker 1: And it's an article about this guy who's embezzling money

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Speaker 1: from a university by just weird little petty things, like

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Speaker 1: he would like expense report, he would take a company

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Speaker 1: car but then fill out an expense report as though

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Speaker 1: he took his own car, right. Or he would have

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Speaker 1: his daughters getting married somewhere, so he would book a

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Speaker 1: big house for the family to be at the wedding,

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Speaker 1: but then he would schedule a meeting and then white

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Speaker 1: out the details and submit the white out certain details

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Speaker 1: on the invoice, and submit the invoice for reimbursement.

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Speaker 6: He's got a shitload of markers and staples at his house.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I'm reading the article thinking that I'm going

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Speaker 1: to get to a part where he's using a company

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Speaker 1: truck for hunting and fishing, Like, I don't know, I'm waiting.

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Speaker 1: I'm waiting for the hunting and fishing angle. And I

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Speaker 1: text her him like I don't see the relevance of

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Speaker 1: what you just sent me, and she goes, that's the

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Speaker 1: guy that you've been telling me to.

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Speaker 3: Get out of.

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Speaker 1: So I'm like, oh, I guess we're back to the

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Speaker 1: drawing board.

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Speaker 3: I think we know some people. We know some people.

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Speaker 7: We talked about it later.

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Speaker 3: We've done some actions on wild.

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Speaker 2: Horses, fair horses and all that in Arizona specific.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So if you are a here's the catch.

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Speaker 1: You can't you cannot be God bless you. This is

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Speaker 1: not like a this is not not, this is not

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Speaker 1: meaning any disrespect, not. You can't be an agency person.

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Speaker 1: You can be a former agency person, but you can't

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Speaker 1: be a current agency person because it's the kind of

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Speaker 1: issue where if you if you're an agency person, you're

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Speaker 1: going to be restricted on what you can say, and

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be reluctant to share your own opinions because

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Speaker 1: of retribution. Former agency person or other professional ten yared

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Speaker 1: a person who's tenured somewhere and can just talk about

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Speaker 1: the issue, and they and you could be free to say,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'll tell you the crazy part about this,

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Speaker 1: or here's the part that everybody thinks is crazy, but

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Speaker 1: it's not so crazy, and just a real someone who

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Speaker 1: really sees all sides of it, understands arguments on both ends.

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Speaker 1: Cal's looking at me like he wants the job.

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Speaker 6: At the same time, I want somebody from the horse

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Speaker 6: sausage industry.

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Speaker 7: Come down from the glue factory.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no agency people, and you know, we're open to

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Speaker 1: a glue factory person, but he's gotta you gotta be

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Speaker 1: a well rounded glue factory person. Uh So there's a

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Speaker 1: call to action. The the the pronunciation on the Roosevelt

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Speaker 1: Roosevelt family deepens. Do you ready for this?

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Speaker 3: Guy?

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Speaker 1: Wrote in who's this person's name?

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Speaker 5: Her?

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Speaker 1: Michelle? Michelle? What's dBm and MS mean that?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: That wrote in.

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Speaker 6: They're getting paid for this somehow?

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Speaker 1: I actually need to call her about this pigeons.

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Speaker 7: It's a little.

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Speaker 1: Late now, but I want to know.

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Speaker 3: That I did.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's who we called, but we didn't call her.

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Speaker 1: We called her. We kind of jumped the gun and

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Speaker 1: already burned some, burned some, you know, we call it

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Speaker 1: Goodwill called her a couple of times about non issues,

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Speaker 1: and then when we had an issue, I was like,

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Speaker 1: are we really going to call her again about these pigeons?

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Speaker 4: She might appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: I think a little bit I gathered from her tonality

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Speaker 1: was a little bit of like, why did you go

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Speaker 1: get them right?

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Speaker 2: Why?

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Speaker 1: This all seems very preventable.

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Speaker 6: I do need to talk to this person though, Veterinary

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Speaker 6: microbiology Snort's got some gut health issues that we need

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Speaker 6: to figure out.

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Speaker 3: Call her up.

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Speaker 1: Here's what she has to say right Here's what she

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Speaker 1: had to say right now, Michelle. She says some interesting

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Speaker 1: history surrounding the Roosevelt family in pronuncie of the name

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Speaker 1: I have period. I've always jumped back and forth and

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Speaker 1: had been intellectually too lazy to figure out what it

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Speaker 1: actually was, so I would sometimes do ruse and sometimes

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Speaker 1: do rose. And I was corrected that when speaking of Theodore.

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Speaker 1: It's Roosevelt, and he spelled, he articulated very clearly in letters,

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Speaker 1: and that's how he likes it to be. But hear this.

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Speaker 1: My husband got on a presidential biography kick, and around

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Speaker 1: the time our son was born, he was working through

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Speaker 1: Edmund Morris's three part biography of Theodore Roosevelt. This became

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Speaker 1: my son's first bedtime story, as he loved to read

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Speaker 1: aloud for him every night, and even threw in an

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Speaker 1: attempt at an old timey accent, Phil do your old

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Speaker 1: timey accent from people in movies from the early movie days?

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Speaker 8: Well, hey, there, Chap, how you doing. You've got a

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Speaker 8: nice looking mouth, like to kiss it?

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Speaker 1: And then do the what's the big idea? Here? And

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Speaker 1: so you want to be a star? Hey, what's the

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Speaker 1: big idea?

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Speaker 7: You want to be a star?

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Speaker 1: Don't you.

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Speaker 3: Still? Specially last name? Yeah? Where was that?

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Speaker 9: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Somewhere In this trilogy was an explanation of the history

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Speaker 1: of the family, which was intertwined with the differences in pronunciation.

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Speaker 1: There are historically two different groups of Roosevelts, the Hyde

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Speaker 1: Park clan and the Oyster Bay Clan, who are each

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Speaker 1: based from two different sons of the hell's that name?

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Speaker 1: Klaus Martins, marts and Von.

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Speaker 6: I think it's Marten.

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Speaker 1: That sounds like a name you'd have.

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Speaker 7: The important Rosenbelt.

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Speaker 1: But I like that whole name because it makes you.

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Speaker 1: It makes it's like, you know, so there's the thing

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Speaker 1: I've become interested in. It's like there's certain names you'll

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Speaker 1: see and you know they're rich.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, we hit on that the other day. What is

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Speaker 7: that guy's name?

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Speaker 3: I can't remember.

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Speaker 1: Braxton, Braxton, Saxon Axton. Yeah, yeah, it's like they know,

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Speaker 1: like rich. I wonder if it works as if I

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Speaker 1: name my kid a rich name. If I was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna name him Thurston so.

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Speaker 7: He become rich.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, will money just flow his way because you

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Speaker 1: named your kid Dave? I mean, who knows, could go anywhay.

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Speaker 1: But if I named him Thurston von Renel in the ninth,

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Speaker 1: does money just show up?

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Speaker 3: Likely he's gonna be getting calls for sure.

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Speaker 1: Klaus Martins and von Roosevelt, who arrived in New Amsterdam

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Speaker 1: around sixteen forty, meaning that family showed up in Manhattan

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Speaker 1: and sixteen forty. That's a good way to make money. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I think the money followed the name Theodore Roosevelt was

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Speaker 1: part of the Oyster Bay branch who pronounced the name Roosevelt.

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Speaker 1: Franklin D. Roosevelt was part of the Hyde Park clan

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Speaker 1: who pronounced the name Roosevelt. So technically the pronunciation indicates

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Speaker 1: which branch of the family you are referring to. That's great,

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Speaker 1: So that confuses things even more so. Now when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about the Great Depression and you're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about Franklin delan No, you need to go like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what was it again? That's right Roosevelt. And if you're

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Speaker 1: talking about the trustbusters in the early conservation movement and Theodore,

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Speaker 1: you gotta go, what was it again?

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Speaker 7: That's right Roosevelt? Elt though, well, I don't know right.

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Speaker 6: I think we should say cows deer are our deer

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Speaker 6: that reside in Arizona, New Mexico, whereas cou's deer are

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Speaker 6: the ones we hunt in Mexico.

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Speaker 2: I would I would beg to argue with that.

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Speaker 1: Are you are you a cole's or a cousman?

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Speaker 8: I'm a cousman, and everybody that I know sayscus and

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Speaker 8: I live in Arizona.

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Speaker 1: So when I wanted to know, I checked with Chris Denim,

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Speaker 1: who's written said it more than anybody on the planet,

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Speaker 1: and he said, till the day I die exactly.

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Speaker 8: There's nobody that says cows deer unless.

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Speaker 1: There's one. We're just one non pretentious person that says it,

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Speaker 1: and it's half a finger.

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Speaker 3: But he's a stickler. He's a stickler.

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Speaker 1: We had spelled one one of our things online. We

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Speaker 1: had spelled what state we spelled. We spelled Nevada wrong,

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Speaker 1: and Jim texts me. He says, there are two ways

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Speaker 1: to pronounce Nevada, but one way to spell it.

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Speaker 9: Uh.

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Speaker 1: This guy wrote in a nuclear and r f K Junior.

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Speaker 1: So we recently re interviewed RFK Jr. And talked about

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Speaker 1: which I remain I'm not. I feel that we need

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Speaker 1: to be leaned. I'll just say I feel that, without

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Speaker 1: really knowing what I'm talking about, I feel that we

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Speaker 1: need to be leaning very heavily that direction, he says.

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Speaker 1: The guy rites in, I am the plant manager of

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Speaker 1: a nuclear plant and need to remain anonymous due to

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Speaker 1: company policy. I listened to the podcast religiously. In this

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Speaker 1: week's discussion on nuclear power was upsetting our FK made

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Speaker 1: two points on nuclear nuclear that were stated as facts

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Speaker 1: and are both completely false. I'm not looking to force

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Speaker 1: an opinion on anyone, just correct some bad information. Our

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00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:51,439
Speaker 1: FK stated nuclear is heavily subsidized. Not true. We do

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Speaker 1: not receive the carbon credits, wind and solar benefit from

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Speaker 1: I had no idea that that was true. If you

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Speaker 1: get a new a little game, well, who's right. But

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna trust. I'm gonna give this guy that I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna trusted. This guy's craig for this week. He goes on,

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Speaker 1: I think we should because nuclear is carbon free as well,

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Speaker 1: but that's an opinion. We do get some recovery payment

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Speaker 1: from the government for spent fuel storage, but that is

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Speaker 1: not a subsidy. The money is repayment for all the

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Speaker 1: money we spent on the failed Yucca Mountain government project.

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Speaker 1: Without getting into the weeds too much, just for people,

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Speaker 1: the Yucca Mountain project was there was a plan. We

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Speaker 1: have all kinds of nuclear ways stored in places that

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Speaker 1: are not long term storage, and for a while there

403
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Speaker 1: was a plan to augur a deep, deep hole in

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00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,440
Speaker 1: the area that's regarded to be one of the most

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Speaker 1: geologically stable areas in the country and store and then

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Speaker 1: lead seal the stuff into a mountain, which sounds bad

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Speaker 1: until you consider that it's all somewhere already. Anyway, two

408
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 1: primary arguments against it. One, you got to get it there. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so all this stuff woul then need to be transported,

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Speaker 1: which some people argue would be a huge security and

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Speaker 1: environmental risk to transport it. Other people say, well, you

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Speaker 1: got to do something with it because it's not good

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Speaker 1: where it is. The other issue is Native Americans in

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00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 1: in was yucka mountain? Nevada or Arizona? Sorry I don't

415
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 1: know this Nevada, right, I think, so type it in

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Speaker 1: real quick, please.

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Speaker 8: There's definitely two in Arizona, Nevada.

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Speaker 1: And I think it was the Navajo who were of

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Speaker 1: the opinion, don't put that ship here on our land.

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Speaker 6: Understandable.

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Speaker 1: So there's that two. It's point two. RFK was empathetic

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Speaker 1: about the lack of insurance for nuclear plants Western Nation.

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Speaker 3: Okay, there you go, sorry about that.

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Speaker 1: RFK was emphatic about the lack of insurance for nuclear plants.

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Speaker 1: This is again completely false. Now I got to clarify

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Speaker 1: to the person writing in, he wasn't He wasn't talking

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Speaker 1: about a lack of insurance for nuclear plants. He's talking

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Speaker 1: about the astronomically high cost of insurance for nuclear plants,

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Speaker 1: meaning people think that anti nuclear people are hippies and

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Speaker 1: tie dies. And he said, you also have to blame

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Speaker 1: guys and ties on Wall Street. I don't think they

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Speaker 1: wear ties on Wall Street anymore. They unbutton Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: unbuttoned the top button.

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Speaker 9: Uh.

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Speaker 1: He was saying. The real the problem there is cost

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Speaker 1: of insurance, meaning Wall Street guys don't want to insure.

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Speaker 1: So a little bit of a squabble there on that.

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00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 1: But again he says, this is again completely false. Nuclear

439
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 1: plants are heavily insured by.

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Speaker 3: Multiple com companies.

441
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 4: One update, though, because the Senate just passed a bill

442
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 4: to support advanced nuclear deployment. So it passed. The Senate

443
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 4: passed the bill to accelerate the deployment of nuclear energy capacity,

444
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 4: including by speeding, permitting, and creating new incentives for advanced

445
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 4: nuclear reactor technologies. And this passed eighty eight to two.

446
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: Oh you.

447
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 2: In on this.

448
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 6: The real reason?

449
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 3: Why?

450
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 6: No, no, no, she's uh hedging her bets on on Awama.

451
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 7: I can also see I can also see.

452
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 6: Act manipulate the stock market rolling through the Nasdak during

453
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 6: this whole podcast, just got grafts going on.

454
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 4: Me on me, I'm just gonna really manipulate it. And

455
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 4: it's going to Joe Biden for signature to become law.

456
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 4: I'm not exactly sure when that's gonna be.

457
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: But the guy concludes he even gives his first name.

458
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,399
Speaker 1: I don't even read his damn first name. It's A.

459
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 3: It's A.

460
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: I'll I'll give a hint. He has the same first

461
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: name as a very popular country musician. I could go

462
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 1: into a great deal, great detail in each of these points,

463
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: but in the interest of brevity, I won't. I do

464
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: sense a sincere curiosity, especially if Steve anytime nuclear comes

465
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: up on the podcast, it would be great to have

466
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: an expert on to speak in facts and allow listeners

467
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 1: to decide for themselves. I love, I love what you

468
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: guys are doing. Keep up the good work. If you're

469
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 1: sitting at home or driving in your truck wondering why

470
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: we're talking about this on a show about wildlife and

471
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing and whatnot, I'll lay it out for

472
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: you very very briefly. As the country moves toward, As

473
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: the country moves toward renewables, and I think we're going

474
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: to retract from renewables because I do not think like

475
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: there's no there's no way Biden's gonna win in November,

476
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 1: so we're gonna see it. We're gonna see a retraction

477
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 1: on renewables. But if we do push ahead on renewables,

478
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: there's this conversation about how much of our public lands

479
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: do we put over to renewables. And when I look

480
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: as a as an energy novice, when I look at

481
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:43,360
Speaker 1: the the huge movement, I'm struggling forwards. When I look

482
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: at how heavily we're spending on moving toward renewable energy,

483
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 1: I just can't see why we're not moving heavily aggressively

484
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: into research and deployment of nuclear energy because the footprints

485
00:27:58,400 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: so small.

486
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 4: And how hopefully I mean, I guess that's reveals my perspective,

487
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 4: but hopefully, And it seems like potentially from certain you know, legislation,

488
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 4: that there is momentum behind that. And I think that

489
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,879
Speaker 4: there are people driving markets, you know, all these AI

490
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 4: investors who are actually talking to nuclear so that might become.

491
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,719
Speaker 6: Because of the huge power needs of Aially exactly.

492
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: It's either it's either we go back and double down

493
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: on fossil fuels. We plaster our coastlines with wind farms

494
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: and convert hundreds of thousands of acres of BLM to

495
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 1: solar arrays and wind. I'm not trying to make it

496
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: like like a rock and a hard spot, but it's

497
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: a little bit of a rock and a hard spot.

498
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: And I can't get satisfied around the idea. I know

499
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: that we had these huge crises three Mile Island, Chernoble,

500
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: what's the Japan. Yeah, the tsunami that wiped out the

501
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: Fukushima power plant. Like I understand all of that, but

502
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: my god, do I feel like we need to be

503
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 1: taking that stuff more seriously?

504
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 6: Well, how about this bs on batteries? Like the solution

505
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 6: is coming up with bigger batteries, Like that's I do

506
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 6: not believe that for a fricking second.

507
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: Did you hear Trump lay out his concerns about big batteries.

508
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 6: No, but I just changed batteries and at my house

509
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 6: last night, and I'm like, here's this thing. And my

510
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 6: place is right next to Pacific Steel and Recycling. Huge

511
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 6: shout out to that places, because it's like the most

512
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 6: fun place I go. You can recycle anything. And then yeah,

513
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 6: and then you get paid for it. It's awesome and

514
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 6: there's a bunch of real interesting folks down there. Awesome

515
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 6: documentary to be made. I could waste a lot of

516
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 6: time at Pacific Steel. Uh you know what, they don't

517
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 6: recycle any type of battery. Why not because it's trash.

518
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 6: They're like, you can't recycle that poisons.

519
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: But why are they always paying that?

520
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 6: Why are they always Well, there's people who can recycle

521
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 6: the lead out of lead core batteries.

522
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: Oh they don't want lithiums.

523
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 6: Yep, no alkaline. Uh you know, no double as, triple as.

524
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: Oh that kind of battery. Okay, Yeah, when you said batteries,

525
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: my head immediately went to the fact that you can

526
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: get money for a car battery. But that's right, that's

527
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: a fraction of allt.

528
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 6: But like these lithium batteries and stuff like that is like,

529
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 6: it's just it's trash, man.

530
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 7: You don't want to get them wet either, or take

531
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 7: them on an airplane.

532
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: Brody and I were laughing there at Eggs. I was

533
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: watching this clip. I kept hearing that Trump was talking

534
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: a lot about shark attacks. I was like, what, So

535
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: I was watching this clip and he's talking about boats

536
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: like vessels now with these huge battery powered vessels, and

537
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: he's laying out a scenario where the vessel is sinking

538
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: and you have a lot of electricity in the water

539
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: and you're faced with a do you stay with the

540
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: boat or risk shark attack by getting away from the boat.

541
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: And he really had shark attacks on his mind. He

542
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: had been a woman had just lost the leg a shark.

543
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 2: Maybe in Florida, and you see.

544
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, people in the audience were a little confused.

545
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 10: But he was back on the other day.

546
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: It's funny that he's Uh, I'd like him to come on.

547
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 6: Did you catch when you talk about sharks that you

548
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 6: struggled with the word nuclear always my whole life?

549
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: Yeah?

550
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 6: Do you remember the the Bush clips?

551
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: No? Do you have a hard time with.

552
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 6: It Bush number two? Yeah, there's a great, great series

553
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 6: of nuclear.

554
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 3: That that was a big thing. Is this guy that

555
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 3: wrote in you know where he's from, perhaps from Michigan.

556
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 6: On the nuclear part? Oh, he can't say that.

557
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 3: I can't say.

558
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: He won't even say I grew up right next to a.

559
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: Form nuclear power plant in Michigan.

560
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 9: Was his name? Luke?

561
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 2: I was gonna say?

562
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: Luke said the country music.

563
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 7: Has to be kept quiet.

564
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: Well, how do you know what his name is? That Whalen?

565
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:56,960
Speaker 9: I know?

566
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, no Waylon was my second guess, sure, yeah, or

567
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 3: George could have been George, or Tana could have been Garth, Garth,

568
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 3: Tanya George, Yeah, Tanya be.

569
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: Dolly dude. That song Delta don oh dude, I love it. Yeah,

570
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: she was a teenager.

571
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

572
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 6: Oh have you ever looked at the YouTube Grand Old Aubrey.

573
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 3: Good stuff?

574
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's great.

575
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: She almost had a big role in Jeremiah Johnson. Did

576
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: you know that? No, she wout up having a small

577
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 1: role in Jeremiah Johnson.

578
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 3: H Oh, she did have one.

579
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, you could do it. I shouldn't throw this

580
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: out there because maybe some day, well you could do

581
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:40,120
Speaker 1: a whole documentary on Jeremia Johnson. Here's a good one

582
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: for you guys. It's a chettaquot question. Chettiicut meaning Chester's

583
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: not even here. It means it's an etequatet question, and

584
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: we normally defer to Chester, who likes etiquette. He's not

585
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: even here, so I guess it's more of an etiquette question.

586
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: It's a good one. I'm seeking guidance on a recent

587
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: dilemma I have been troubled with, so it's not so

588
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: recent anymore. But from the spring, he says, I live

589
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: in a mid Atlantic state. He's he doesn't want to

590
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: tell a mid Atlantic state. He doesn't want to get done.

591
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: He doesn't want people to narrow down to what state

592
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: he's in. I live in a state with a robust

593
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: turkey uppercase tea population. This season, I hunted the woods

594
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: behind my house. You always know where it's going when

595
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: someone hunts the woods behind their house. I had several

596
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: close encounters at the same time and never filled my tag.

597
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: Three days after the season ended, I woke up to

598
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: the barks and growls of my Labrador retriever uppercase R.

599
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: He was right to uppercase the l and wrong to

600
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 1: uppercase the R. I looked out my bedroom window to

601
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: see that the same tom had found itself trapped inside

602
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 1: my garden plot, which is surrounded by an eight foot fence.

603
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: I watched as the bird retreated, repeatedly, tried to take flight,

604
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,719
Speaker 1: hit the fence, and run around the garden, tearing up

605
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:11,720
Speaker 1: my plants. My immediate thought was to grab my twelve

606
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: gage and protect my crops. Hear them out. Suddenly, every

607
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: segment of Chetticut popped in my head. I felt as

608
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: though I was biased and wanting a turkey in my freezer.

609
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,800
Speaker 1: Yeah maybe, and that my rationale and protecting my crops

610
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 1: may be impaired by the frustration of the prior turkey season.

611
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 1: I don't rely on my garden for survival, but I

612
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: do appreciate my homegrown veggies. I called my States Game

613
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: Ward and dispatch several times and was told to leave

614
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: a message and that someone would get back to me.

615
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: The Department of Natural Resources website states homeowners are strictly

616
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: prohibited from trapping and shooting wildlife outside regulated seasons unless

617
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 1: the animal has been actively causing property damage or is

618
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: an obvious threat to public health and safety. Eventually, I

619
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: was able to get the garden gate open and scare

620
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: the bird out, damaging even more plans.

621
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 10: I don't understand the Eventually, I would like the tinges

622
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 10: were rusted.

623
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, he doesn't say. After a closer inspection

624
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: of the garden, I wish I shot the bird on

625
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 1: site because he took out my onion.

626
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,839
Speaker 6: Patch that I worked real hard on.

627
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: It's been three days and the game war and has

628
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: it called my buddies will giving a lot of crap

629
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,239
Speaker 1: for not shooting the bird. My question is what I

630
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: have been right to shoot the bird? It was actively

631
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: causing damage.

632
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 6: If you this is where if you're a hunter, you

633
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 6: cannot shoot that bird. If you have a hunting license,

634
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 6: You're you're not gonna end up on the right side

635
00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:58,439
Speaker 6: of the story.

636
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: And we're I'm too killed.

637
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 7: I have so many questions though, how to get in

638
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 7: there in the first.

639
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: P Well, I've been waiting to share this. I was

640
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 1: in the situation he's in. I didn't have a fence

641
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: around my garden. When I got a fence around my garden,

642
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't a day and there was a

643
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: turkey in there because the dog chased a turkey up

644
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: on the roof of the house. When the turkey pitched

645
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: off the roof of the house, he landed in that

646
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: garden and proceeded to run all over freaking out until

647
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 1: we were able to get him out of the fence.

648
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:32,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, they have trouble with fences.

649
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 1: I'll point out to this gentleman. It never the thought

650
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: never occurred in my mind to kill that turkey.

651
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 7: He was just sorry he didn't get.

652
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: I think that if you I think that you that

653
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 1: that because you were trying to kill that turkey and

654
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 1: got duped. And then if you did kill that turkey,

655
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: now you would always be suspect. Always, there would always be.

656
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 5: Uh.

657
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to put suspicion.

658
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, in the neighborhood. I understand the wanting to protect

659
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 10: your garden. I was eyeballing a cottontail this morning that

660
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 10: was drifting towards my garden.

661
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: And Brody's got a domestic cat giving him a lot

662
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: of good deal. Oh that gross unit. This garden as

663
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 1: an outhouse, which infuriates Brody. Oh the cat, it might

664
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 1: as well be defecating in Brodie's mouth.

665
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 10: Yes, I tried non lethal deterrence like laying sticks over

666
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 10: the garden, but it's not working.

667
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: So it might as well defecate in Brodie's mouth for

668
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: all the internet to bring.

669
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 7: The game on that cat.

670
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 6: Well, your kids get diseased because of that thing, I

671
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 6: don't know.

672
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,919
Speaker 1: And in the garden they're going to get toxo plasmos yeah,

673
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: not toxic, and the you know what they're going to do,

674
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: They're gonna make risky investments. This is all true. I'm

675
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,239
Speaker 1: not making this up. They're gonna get toxo. They're going

676
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: to make risky investments. They're going to drive too fast,

677
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 1: they're gonna be too hot headed and too prone to fighting.

678
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 7: That cat's gotta go.

679
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 2: Yep.

680
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 1: It's either that or they lose all their money. Do

681
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: you find them making risky bets with one another already?

682
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 7: I've noticed some weird behavior lately.

683
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: It's toxo. Or they become a weird cat lady, which

684
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: is also linked to toxo.

685
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 3: That's not gonna happen.

686
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: Well, No, when you become a weird cat lady, horder.

687
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 3: Toxo.

688
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: When you become a guy that drives too fast and

689
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: tries to evade arrest and makes bad bets and likes

690
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: going to casinos, toxo.

691
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 7: Gotcha.

692
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 3: I'm gonna have to do some research there.

693
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: This guy's describing me to a team.

694
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 3: That's my problem.

695
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:54,320
Speaker 1: Moving on, Maggie Hudlow is joining us from Wyoming. Hello,

696
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,880
Speaker 1: what's covered up by a tarp in the background. I've

697
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: been dying to know.

698
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 9: Oh, that's our straw very patch. We've got a little

699
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 9: hoop house thing there. We've got another bigger vegetable garden

700
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:08,720
Speaker 9: up on the other side of the house.

701
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: Are you keeping cold out or pass out?

702
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,359
Speaker 9: Uh? Well, the dogs really like to dig around in there,

703
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 9: and it's been below freezing the last few nights, so

704
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 9: little of both.

705
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: Okay, keeping the cat keeping Brody's house cat out of there,

706
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: So give us give us a dispatch. Oh sorry, go ahead,

707
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:33,879
Speaker 1: we have a slight delay.

708
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, sorry about that. The uh don't have too

709
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 9: much trouble with cats with all the dogs running around

710
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 9: this yard.

711
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: Maggie Hudlow is a colleague of ours here meat Eater,

712
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: a very prolific writer. You can always find her work

713
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: at the meat eater dot com. And Maggie's gonna give

714
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 1: us the whelming dispatch and lay out some of the

715
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: the aftermath of the incident where individual had struck a

716
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: wolf with a snowmobile and then taped its mouth shut

717
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: and paraded it around town in a very distasteful incident

718
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: that had some far reaching consequences.

719
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:27,799
Speaker 9: Go ahead, Maggie, Yeah, thanks, Steve. I mean when I

720
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 9: first heard the news, I had a couple thoughts, and

721
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 9: it was like, what a thoughtless dumb ass, Like what

722
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 9: a terrible thing to do. And also the second thought

723
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 9: was that this is gonna blow up and get just huge,

724
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 9: and it did immediately, so kind of local repercussions that

725
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 9: have been not necessarily as publicly news. There have been

726
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 9: a lot of people you know, connected to Cody through

727
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 9: family I know, that have been getting death threats. The

728
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 9: Green River Bar where the incident happened, they've been getting

729
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 9: you know, threatened, game wardens, people, small businesses in town

730
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 9: have been getting just like hundreds of one star reviews

731
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 9: by people they've never met, just angry animal activists, and

732
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 9: all that has done like these strangers kind of infiltrating

733
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 9: this really like close knit small town. It's just made

734
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 9: people want to side with Cody more than anything because

735
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 9: they know him as a person and he's never you know,

736
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 9: threatened to kill them or their family or anything. So

737
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 9: what's happened is this like massive polarization, and you have

738
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 9: these animal rights activists that want something to happen and

739
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 9: are doing it in the worst way possible. And then

740
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 9: you have this established culture of hate against predators in

741
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 9: Wyoming that is like already existed, but now it's had

742
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 9: this international spotlight shown on it, and essentially right now

743
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,919
Speaker 9: it's like you're either on this side or you're on

744
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 9: this side, you're either for animal rights or you're for

745
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:51,919
Speaker 9: killing wolves. And I think we need to have more

746
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 9: conversations that meet a little bit more in the middle,

747
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 9: Like we need predator management in this area is a

748
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:05,279
Speaker 9: huge part of this community. We also are right in

749
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 9: the middle of migration corridors for mule deer, for antelope.

750
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 9: We have huge elk populations. There's elk feed grounds all

751
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 9: around us. I think preitor management is important, but I

752
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 9: think it's also really important that we look at creating

753
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 9: legislation that makes it ethical.

754
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:30,919
Speaker 3: Right on.

755
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:35,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you can you elaborate on that last point

756
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: a little bit? That was some of the I think

757
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: some of the frustration that happened on this issue is

758
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 1: someone did something that was so egregious, and I'll remind people,

759
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: I think this gets a little bit lost. This was

760
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 1: hitting a wolf of the snowmobil. This is running down

761
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 1: an animal hitting with a snowmobil. Yes, the individual hunts

762
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 1: does some hunting, but this is a snowbill strike and

763
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 1: taking a wounded animal, taping it up and bringing it

764
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 1: to a bar. And I think I sensed early on

765
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 1: a lot of frustration from outsiders looking at this issue,

766
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:29,839
Speaker 1: being how could you do that in the criminality of

767
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: it was illegal possession of wildlife, which would be the

768
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,319
Speaker 1: same thing is if you went and caught a that

769
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: you went and caught a baby rabbit and raised it

770
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: as your own, you would be guilty of the same crime,

771
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: illegal possession of wildlife. So when you talk about legislation,

772
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: what I mean, can you comment on that? Am I

773
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 1: going in the wrong direction on this and trying to

774
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: understand what you're saying?

775
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,280
Speaker 9: Maggie, No, No, you're good And I think so wolves

776
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,080
Speaker 9: are you know, considered predators, so they just don't have

777
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 9: any sort of protections beyond that. And that's sort of

778
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 9: the sticky thing about the situation is that everyone wanted

779
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 9: to see Cody prosecuted more than just that small fine,

780
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 9: and there is nothing legally set in the state that

781
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 9: he technically did that he can be taken to court

782
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 9: for or fined for. And that's where the you know,

783
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 9: the state legislation itself needs to change.

784
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 7: So, Maggie, are you getting at that?

785
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 10: Like in Wyoming, wolves are not managed as well in

786
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,800
Speaker 10: most of the state, they're not managed as a game animal,

787
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,399
Speaker 10: so it's like open season all your long, no bag

788
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 10: limits outside of a small area in northwestern Wyoming.

789
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: Small Well not when.

790
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 9: I think it's ninety of the state.

791
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 1: Okay, sorry, I thought it was more significent. So but

792
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 1: but just like a little background for people listening. When

793
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 1: when wolves were delisted, different states took different approaches. In

794
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 1: Wyoming in some respects, the delisting process was delayed by

795
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,240
Speaker 1: negotiations with Wyoming about how Wyoming what kind of management

796
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 1: plan Wyoming wanted to do, and Wyoming like really stuck

797
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: to its guns and push for a management plan in

798
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: which they would have a area where wolves would be

799
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: managed as a game animal, and they would have an

800
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 1: area where wolves would be managed as basically the same

801
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: way that virtually all states managed.

802
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 3: Coyots as vermin as a.

803
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 1: Non game whatever, the same way for coyotes. You know,

804
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: most states have I think this is true. Most states

805
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: have no close seasons on coyotes, right, And if there's

806
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 1: a coyote molesting your livestock whatever, you don't even need

807
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 1: to tell anybody about it if you were to kill

808
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 1: a coyote. So Wyoming was emphatic about arriving at in

809
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,920
Speaker 1: that position, and it differs from the management approach taken

810
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: in Idaho and the management approach taken in Montana where

811
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:34,720
Speaker 1: they established quota systems around the state and regulatory measures

812
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: around those states. So it's just a difference in the approach.

813
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 9: Yeah, and the concept of running down wolves on a

814
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 9: snow machine, that's something that's been happening here for a

815
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 9: long time. I'm called oh in coyotes for sure. Like

816
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 9: I was called a tree hug and hippie growing up.

817
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 9: When I tell my classmates I thought that was wrong

818
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 9: or a bad thing to do. I was like, if

819
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,160
Speaker 9: you want to shoot them, why don't you just shoot them? Like,

820
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 9: why do you got to run them until they die?

821
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 9: I don't think that's right. And because I would say

822
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 9: that I was a tree hugget and hippie. But you know,

823
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 9: I think you can be a sportsman and believe in

824
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 9: like ethical predator management. And that's what I would like

825
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 9: to see if there's any light in this situation that

826
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 9: it just brings more of that.

827
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, because I think amongst the pro predator management crowd,

828
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 6: even the pro predator eradication crowd, you would see a

829
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:50,800
Speaker 6: division in getting the job done and playing with the animal, right, right.

830
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 2: Even if you're going to run it over, just run

831
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 2: it over.

832
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 6: Kill it if you're pro as in a professional, you're

833
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 6: doing things quickly and efficiently doing the job.

834
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 8: I don't think any hunter who like says that they're

835
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 8: a hunter wants to see a prolonged death on it, right.

836
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 8: We like pride ourselves on the fact that one shot,

837
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 8: one kill or yeah, you know, in general, I'll.

838
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 6: Just totally honest, like my hunting mentor uh. He was

839
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,319
Speaker 6: in a time where coyote pelts were worth a ton

840
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:33,719
Speaker 6: of money, and he used to tell me stories over

841
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 6: and over again about the the success of his coyote

842
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 6: season was based on how many snowsuits he had to

843
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:50,440
Speaker 6: replace because instead of shooting a coyote, he'd get up

844
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 6: alongside of him on a snowmobile and whack him on

845
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:55,279
Speaker 6: the head with the club so he didn't have to

846
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 6: stitch up a hole.

847
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 8: But that's still just that. But it's a dead coyote,

848
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 8: that's dispatching it right away.

849
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 3: I mean, but that that.

850
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 6: Dog watch into the leg on his snow snowsuit and

851
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:08,239
Speaker 6: they'd whack it on the head.

852
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 5: Huh.

853
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of those things that you hear and

854
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: you don't immediately think about what uh And I almost

855
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:17,359
Speaker 1: hesitate to say this but what a level of.

856
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 11: Uh.

857
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: That's a lot of coordination athleticism.

858
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 6: These are old snowmobiles.

859
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 1: Too, Maggie, I want to real quick calendar you can

860
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: take over. I want to tell you that one of

861
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 1: the interesting things about being alive today is it possible

862
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: to be a tree hugging hippie and a savage redneck

863
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: all at the same time. It depends on who I

864
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 1: feel that, it depends on who's doing the looking. I

865
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:55,080
Speaker 1: think that Einstein got into that with theory of relativity

866
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 1: and you say like, well, how fast is it going? Well,

867
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,439
Speaker 1: it depends on where you're looking at it from. So yeah,

868
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 1: you're a you're a like a you're a bloodthirsty redneck

869
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:06,760
Speaker 1: in a tree hugging hippie.

870
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 3: Welcome.

871
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 9: Yeah. Never been more clearly designed.

872
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

873
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,600
Speaker 6: Well, the conversation with a bunch of ranchers over the

874
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:19,439
Speaker 6: years who makes some comment about environmentalists and I'm looking

875
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 6: at their place and I'm like, well, aren't you a

876
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 6: lot of environment I'm like, you seem to be doing

877
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:30,240
Speaker 6: a lot of things good for the environment.

878
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 9: Here.

879
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:37,600
Speaker 1: One of my favorite UH stories from this podcast is

880
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: we had a guy on years ago that that worked

881
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:48,359
Speaker 1: on the the nutrient eradication program in Chesapeake Bay, and

882
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 1: in order to do the nutrio eradication program, they had

883
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 1: to get all private landowners to participate, and they had

884
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 1: one big landowner. It was just a holdout, so they

885
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 1: couldn't finish killing all the nutrio. And he had a

886
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,800
Speaker 1: real just kind of anti getting along, yeah, anti. He

887
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: had an anti government perspective and kind of an anti

888
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: environmentalist perspective. And eventually they become friends with them, and

889
00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:14,880
Speaker 1: he goes out to this guy's place and he realizes

890
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 1: the guy just loves loves wildlife, and then walking around

891
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: his place, he's like, look at that, look at that,

892
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: look at that tree, look at this, and he looks

893
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 1: at the federal guy. He goes, see what I'm talking about.

894
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:36,839
Speaker 1: It's a gee damn menagerie. And he realized, like, we're

895
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: like closer than I thought, you know what I mean? Anyhow,

896
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: anything else, Maggie, you want to add.

897
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 9: I mean at the moment, no, I'll stick around and

898
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 9: chime in when I see fit. But it's I just, uh,

899
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 9: I want both sides of situations like this to just

900
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:09,320
Speaker 9: think about the the best way to make change. And uh,

901
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,800
Speaker 9: you know, I just I feel like my mom talking

902
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,839
Speaker 9: to myself when I'm in like high school, Like, think

903
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 9: about your actions, Maggie Rose, think about how your actions

904
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 9: impact other people, you know. And I just wish more

905
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 9: people people were told that maybe they needed to be reminded,

906
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 9: like don't mess with small businesses that have nothing to

907
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:35,000
Speaker 9: do with this situation. Don't give people death threats, Like

908
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 9: what do you think that's going to accomplish? So yeah,

909
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 9: think about your actions.

910
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:44,359
Speaker 8: You're not dealing with the rational people for the most

911
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 8: part in that in that scenario.

912
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 1: So guys, give me the howl perspective on this, because

913
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: it's a it's you know, it's it's it's a thorny

914
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 1: one for everyone.

915
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 3: We got involved are about it. We were at Mile

916
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:07,320
Speaker 3: High Expo in Denver. I was at dinner. I almost

917
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,600
Speaker 3: flipped my table over and I'll explain why. I was

918
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 3: just pissed off that this happened, like right now, really,

919
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 3: this happened in twenty twenty four in the midst of

920
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 3: mountain lion bands, outlying bands and all this stuff that's

921
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 3: going on. This is going to blow up, This is

922
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:25,839
Speaker 3: going to look bad, this is gonna this is really

923
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 3: going to boost the the the anti Hunters in their

924
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:30,759
Speaker 3: in their campaign because it's.

925
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:32,000
Speaker 2: He's going to be the poster child.

926
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,879
Speaker 8: Code became the poster child for their Yeah what they're

927
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 8: trying to push.

928
00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we created I guess you can call it

929
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 3: an action. It was really a sign on letter to

930
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 3: get as many orgs, companies UH to contemn the action. Right.

931
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 3: We got about seventy, which was great. I think we

932
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 3: were the only ones that really even talk about it,

933
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 3: like as far as a national org, which I was

934
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 3: disappointed in. You know, we should we should come out

935
00:54:57,719 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 3: in opposition to this.

936
00:54:59,239 --> 00:54:59,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's read.

937
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 3: Oh man, it's red hot, and and we took some heat.

938
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 3: I run the social media, so I was kind of

939
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 3: seeing it, you know, from from people that I knew,

940
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 3: and I'm like, hey, come on, we're Anni hunters now,

941
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 3: I mean, because we're condemning this action, Like that's that's

942
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 3: the level it went to. Well, you know, where is

943
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 3: this gonna go? You're kind of what do you what

944
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 3: are you saying we should change legislation or or whatnot? No,

945
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 3: you shouldn't be able to torture an animal. This This

946
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,239
Speaker 3: guy could have ran it, over ran the wolf, over

947
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:35,839
Speaker 3: tied it to a tree for five days, came back

948
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 3: five days later and then killed it. It would have

949
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 3: been fine, no penalty because he didn't transport the animal.

950
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:44,319
Speaker 1: Oh, that would have been legally permissible.

951
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:46,959
Speaker 3: In that area. So in the in the vermin area

952
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 3: that that Maggie was.

953
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 2: Talking, is it predator managment zone?

954
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,640
Speaker 3: Is it called yeah, the predator man The other zone,

955
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 3: which is which is funny, is called the trophy zone.

956
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:59,400
Speaker 3: So let's keep where there are rules. That's called the

957
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 3: trophy zone. It's Wyoming's just a you know, it's a

958
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 3: different place. So so we got involved. And then one

959
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 3: of the things we do is, you know, we're not

960
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:11,839
Speaker 3: we're not from Wyoming. We're not an organization that's based

961
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 3: in Wyoming. I reached out to organizations in Wyoming, say hey,

962
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 3: who's who's taken care of this? Does anybody? Does anybody care?

963
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 3: Is anybody willing to you know, get involved? And uh,

964
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 3: and it was Jess Johnson with Wyoming Wildlife Federation And

965
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 3: she's kind of taken the lead on this. We got

966
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 3: her back as far as what she's gonna need, podcasts,

967
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 3: support from in state or odd of state, support from

968
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 3: industry partners that we have who can, who can kind

969
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 3: of lend the support that she's gonna need, and and

970
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 3: she's working on what's gonna work is is there anything

971
00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 3: in legislation? She realizes that's really sticky because this is

972
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 3: a this is a situation here where it's not normal,

973
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:01,400
Speaker 3: you know what I mean? What happened? So how do

974
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:04,319
Speaker 3: you really legislate kind of morality? Really?

975
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: And how do you draw legislation around uh, totally individual,

976
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 1: once in a lifetime outlandish set of actions on one

977
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 1: person's behalf right, you know?

978
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 3: So I don't know if it was. There's some things

979
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 3: there's I think it's happened before, maybe not with this guy,

980
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 3: but it happens. It has happened before, things like this.

981
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 8: Maybe not as egregious as this particular thing, but things

982
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 8: happened that shouldn't happen if you're again an ethical hunter.

983
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 3: But what but what did it? But what did it do?

984
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 3: We can we can talk about that. So the action

985
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 3: was terrible and what did it do? So he became

986
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 3: the guy who did this? I kind of I realized

987
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 3: he has a family and all that. I don't like

988
00:57:56,840 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 3: really saying his name. I'm just kind of talking about

989
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 3: the incident. But cats aren't trophies. Who is the the

990
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 3: anti hunting organization in Colorado that's leading the charge to

991
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 3: ban trophy hunting mountain lions, Bobcats. His face is plastered

992
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:15,720
Speaker 3: around their website. His face is plastered around their social media.

993
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 3: The guy was also he's hunted lions, so they have

994
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 3: pictures of him with lions, and they're like, this is

995
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 3: why we need to ban this because we.

996
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 2: Need to protect them.

997
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, we need to protect them from from these evil hunters.

998
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 8: And this is Yeah, everybody becomes this guy automatically by

999
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 8: association because we're all hunters, because we're we all engage

1000
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:41,439
Speaker 8: in hunting. Now we are this bloodthirsty hate animals. We don't,

1001
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 8: you know, we willy nilly go out there and shoot crap.

1002
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 8: And you know, that's that's the picture they want to paint.

1003
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 8: You know, it's part of what they do. They deal

1004
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 8: in the eye of public perception all the time.

1005
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 3: It was a nightmare. It's a nightmare for us. It's

1006
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 3: a nightmare for the people who are in the trenches fighting, because, man,

1007
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:01,439
Speaker 3: you get a picture of something, you know how it works.

1008
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 3: I mean, you can't talk your way out of that.

1009
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 3: You know, maybe if you have five hours and you

1010
00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 3: really spend it with the person and explain, you know,

1011
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 3: these things we're talking about, But we don't get that chance,

1012
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 3: right social media on all the all the anna hunting,

1013
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 3: you know, websites or whatever. He's the poster boy, and

1014
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 3: you can see publicly how much money they're raising. It's

1015
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 3: in the billions. We talked a little bit earlier about

1016
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 3: the biker rally and that thing that happened. I think

1017
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 3: that was one hundred and thirty two thousand dollars or something.

1018
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 3: It's just it's it's unfortunate that that happened. It's unfortunate

1019
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 3: that there are some people who aren't aware of themselves

1020
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 3: their actions. Obviously somebody in Daniel, Wyoming. The video got

1021
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 3: out somehow. I don't know how it got out. I

1022
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 3: don't know who got a hold of it. But those

1023
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 3: things they don't do us any good. And and you know,

1024
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:56,080
Speaker 3: both both morally, it was wrong. It was wrong if

1025
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 3: nobody even knew about it was wrong if you know,

1026
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 3: if it wasn't on video, but it was on video,

1027
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 3: and now it's a now it's a completely different, you know,

1028
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 3: completely different story. But that kind of stuff is a

1029
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:09,919
Speaker 3: big struggle. It's a big, big struggle it doesn't help

1030
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 3: us at all. So so anyway, we don't know what

1031
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 3: the strategy is going to be, We don't know what

1032
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 3: the if there is going to be legislation or whatnot.

1033
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:20,800
Speaker 3: Jess is working on that. We trust her to, uh

1034
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 3: to get that ironed out. And Maggie, are you do

1035
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 3: you talk to Jess at all about Yeah? You do?

1036
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:31,040
Speaker 9: Okay, Oh, sorry, I was not into my mom in

1037
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:33,479
Speaker 9: the background, but yeah, I'm actually going to Jess's house

1038
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 9: this weekend, so I was looking forward to talking to

1039
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:36,840
Speaker 9: her about this.

1040
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we're having a meeting with her next week.

1041
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 3: Maybe we'll invite you to that on kind of strategy

1042
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 3: on this whole thing. So well, no, that sounds like

1043
01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 3: you're right, yeah, yeah, cool.

1044
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:56,120
Speaker 10: Do you think like addressing it more and bringing it

1045
01:00:56,200 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 10: back up has the potential to backfire and just like

1046
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 10: keeping it like other than condemning it, right, which, what

1047
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 10: else can you do if you're like, oh, if you

1048
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 10: keep raising it up to the top of the discussion,

1049
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 10: is that just helping the other side?

1050
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:18,480
Speaker 3: It's a good question. I think it depends on how

1051
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:22,040
Speaker 3: we how we tackle it, what we say, what the

1052
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 3: results are going to be, and and honestly, if we

1053
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 3: market it or not. I think it's a good thing.

1054
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 3: All right. I'll give you example. We we condemned this,

1055
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 3: We said a lot about it. I made a few

1056
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 3: videos on it. People reached out to Howl and said,

1057
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 3: this is the first time I've ever heard hunters talk

1058
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 3: like this, first time I've heard hunters say this was

1059
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:53,480
Speaker 3: a action. Yeah, these are anti hunters. I think that's

1060
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 3: kind of how she was describing herself. There's a there's

1061
01:01:55,600 --> 01:01:58,800
Speaker 3: a few people she was impressed. She said, I feel

1062
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 3: like I could sit at the same table as you

1063
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 3: and at least have a conversation. The more people we

1064
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:08,000
Speaker 3: reach like that, the better. Certainly, kind of like what

1065
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 3: Steve was saying earlier, you finally have a lot, You

1066
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 3: have a lot more in common with people when you

1067
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 3: actually sit down and have conversations and learn about their life.

1068
01:02:16,480 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 10: And that's it's interesting because like it's like something that's

1069
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 10: very obviously immoral and egregious, but when someone poaches an elk,

1070
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:33,880
Speaker 10: you don't get the same you know what I mean.

1071
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 3: But it's illegal and they get fined.

1072
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 10: It's like we don't get the same credit for condemning

1073
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 10: that action.

1074
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 7: You know what I mean.

1075
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 2: It's it's just that's because we're all poachers. You didn't

1076
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:48,480
Speaker 2: know that, right.

1077
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,680
Speaker 6: Well, the the reality is like hunters do have a

1078
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:57,280
Speaker 6: very long legacy of regulating hunters, right, this would be

1079
01:02:58,480 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 6: more of the same.

1080
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 8: But it's not talked about enough. That's the problem.

1081
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 6: And or is it talked about all the time and

1082
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:05,560
Speaker 6: it's just white noise.

1083
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 2: It's talked about all the time between hunters. It's not great.

1084
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:13,480
Speaker 6: I mean, we're not going to we are constantly constantly

1085
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 6: being like, here's somebody who've screwed up. Here's somebody who

1086
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 6: purposely and intentionally did something very wrong. This is how

1087
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 6: you got it, you know.

1088
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:26,160
Speaker 3: And I think you have a positive effect. Mediator has

1089
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:30,440
Speaker 3: a positive effect on the non hunting public. Now, if

1090
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:33,200
Speaker 3: you hadn't said those things over the years, I don't

1091
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 3: know where we would be. Where would we be.

1092
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:38,120
Speaker 1: We'll look at the first, not the first. One of

1093
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 1: the biggest hunting celebrity influencers was Theodore Roosevelt, who that's it, right,

1094
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 1: Here's a big hunting celebrity influencer named Theodore Roosevelt who

1095
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 1: wrote about hunting, wrote whole books about hunting, celebrated hunting,

1096
01:03:56,120 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 1: loved hunting, promoted hunting of people interested in hunting. But

1097
01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 1: what did he do? He would say, how is it

1098
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 1: that it's legal to go and kill thousands of shore

1099
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 1: birds to the point where you're eliminating them off of

1100
01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 1: entire nesting grounds? Right? Did people go, you're just playing

1101
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 1: into the hands of the anti hunters, probably a couple

1102
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:31,440
Speaker 1: or was he saying, no, you're you're going to drive

1103
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 1: you know, you're driving these things to extinction. All hunting

1104
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 1: is not the same. There's a way to go about it.

1105
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:44,280
Speaker 1: There's like a responsible way to go about it that

1106
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: has sustainability in mind and in respect for the restours.

1107
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 1: And there's the way to go about it where you're

1108
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 1: just going to kind of ruin.

1109
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 3: The whole thing. Yeah, conservations from eradication, you know, couldn't serve.

1110
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, so it's not I mean. Leopold, another

1111
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: great hunting influencer, right celebrated hunting, wrote about hunting, got

1112
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 1: people into it. Also had a lot to say about

1113
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 1: some things we do that aren't that great, including things

1114
01:05:15,520 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 1: that some hunters do that aren't that great.

1115
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 8: Sure, sure, ye, Well to that whole point, like my

1116
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 8: whole thing is, or our whole thing is, really is

1117
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 8: do you want policy to be put in place by

1118
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:31,520
Speaker 8: the squeaky wheels of anti hunting, or would you rather

1119
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 8: the decision makers hear from the hunters and have policy

1120
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:37,880
Speaker 8: be put in place guided by us.

1121
01:05:38,120 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of the things that's come out of

1122
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:46,280
Speaker 1: That's one of the things that over the years has

1123
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:50,320
Speaker 1: come out of trapping regulation is you've seen a lot

1124
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:56,160
Speaker 1: of self policing over the years. Well, I shouldn't just

1125
01:05:56,200 --> 01:06:00,000
Speaker 1: point that one out. I will quickly on move on

1126
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:02,760
Speaker 1: another one. The amount of self policing you've seen from

1127
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 1: trappers over the years about best best practices to avoid

1128
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:10,800
Speaker 1: conflict with dogs, Right, you've seen a lot of self pleasing.

1129
01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:15,400
Speaker 1: Mean they're saying we could wait, not do anything and

1130
01:06:15,480 --> 01:06:18,880
Speaker 1: have a total trap band yep, or we could find

1131
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:21,560
Speaker 1: a way that like, how do we look at how

1132
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:25,080
Speaker 1: do we look at potential areas of conflict and write

1133
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:27,400
Speaker 1: these rules up in the way that lets us continue

1134
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:30,440
Speaker 1: to do what we do and eliminate conflict because it's

1135
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 1: one of the other. We either do things where there's

1136
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 1: zero regulations, no setbacks, no set restrictions, and then we

1137
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:41,120
Speaker 1: wait until you can't do anything, or we find a

1138
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 1: way to ease the tension by taking some small steps

1139
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 1: that we can articulate from an educated perspective about how

1140
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 1: we could go about our business and not cause trouble.

1141
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 1: You see it in the fishing industry right, self plicing

1142
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,360
Speaker 1: in the fishing industry. And a famous case would be,

1143
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:05,360
Speaker 1: uh with mountain lions. You talk to anyone involved in

1144
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 1: the history of mountain lion, it's like the first people

1145
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:14,200
Speaker 1: to come forward on mountainland regulations or mountainland hunters yep.

1146
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:16,400
Speaker 2: And that's how it should be.

1147
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 1: I mean they were smart.

1148
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, because you want to keep something around to

1149
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:25,400
Speaker 8: continue to do it. Would you rather go hunting once

1150
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 8: every three.

1151
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:27,640
Speaker 2: Years or never again?

1152
01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 8: You know, so you think about it, like you know,

1153
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 8: from that perspective, everybody always cares about what's seemingly important

1154
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:37,600
Speaker 8: to them. Sure, so you know think about it that

1155
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 8: that's that's the reality of it. If hundreds of anti

1156
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 8: hunters get what they want, they're going to wave their

1157
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 8: magic wand and get rid of hunting completely. You know,

1158
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 8: they're not just going for one thing, They're going for

1159
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:49,439
Speaker 8: it all.

1160
01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:50,160
Speaker 2: Eventually.

1161
01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 1: If you picture the private conversations I have, the private

1162
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 1: conversations are, uh, we're going.

1163
01:07:58,480 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 3: To do away with it all.

1164
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:02,360
Speaker 2: When this happened, I was like, I saw a guy

1165
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 2: like this.

1166
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:06,520
Speaker 10: Yeah, But the funny thing is maybe they just played

1167
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:09,280
Speaker 10: right into our The funny thing about the anti hunting

1168
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:12,920
Speaker 10: angle is they're not using this to get rid of

1169
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:16,679
Speaker 10: wolf hunting in Wyoming because they know that will never happen.

1170
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:19,600
Speaker 10: They're using it in places like Colorado.

1171
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 3: They have no foothold in Wyoming.

1172
01:08:21,120 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 7: Like yeah, and.

1173
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:24,160
Speaker 10: That's why, I mean, it's this thing that has happened

1174
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:25,679
Speaker 10: is probably not.

1175
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:28,240
Speaker 7: Going to change how wolves are managed, and.

1176
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:31,719
Speaker 3: Not in Wyoming, you know, no, definitely not in Wyoming.

1177
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 2: Good effect everywhere else.

1178
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:37,559
Speaker 3: And you know, you're talking about the private conversation last year,

1179
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:40,240
Speaker 3: two years ago, it came back. Now it's a different initiative.

1180
01:08:40,680 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 3: It's not really private anymore. So it was IP three

1181
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:46,639
Speaker 3: I think in three IP three in Oregon or that one.

1182
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 3: They kind of did away with that. Now it's going

1183
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:51,600
Speaker 3: to be IP twenty eight. It's a is that the

1184
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 3: no it's in everything band, it's it's.

1185
01:08:55,000 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 8: Fishing, Yeah, like nails.

1186
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how bad it is.

1187
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:04,719
Speaker 1: Well, that's a publicity play though, I mean.

1188
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:08,080
Speaker 8: But there's people signing on. Yeah, so there's obviously a

1189
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:11,799
Speaker 8: group of people that believe that it's.

1190
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:13,800
Speaker 3: The pinnacle of what they want. If they could get

1191
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 3: what they want, that's it.

1192
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:17,479
Speaker 1: Oh, they're like, let's just cut to the instead of

1193
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:20,519
Speaker 1: nitpick and just let's just gump this over with all

1194
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:21,400
Speaker 1: one of that.

1195
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:24,200
Speaker 6: That is a great public service announcement, though, Like you know,

1196
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:29,040
Speaker 6: we're heading into elections and a legislative session here in Montana,

1197
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:32,519
Speaker 6: so you're starting to see a lot more people hounding

1198
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:36,679
Speaker 6: you on the street for signatures. Yeah, and their job

1199
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:40,799
Speaker 6: is to get the signature. The last lady who stopped

1200
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 6: me three times, I had to say, can I see

1201
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:48,920
Speaker 6: the language of the bill? It's this, I'm like, that's

1202
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:51,120
Speaker 6: how the bill's written. No, And then finally I had

1203
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:54,920
Speaker 6: to say, I am an informed voter, show me the

1204
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 6: language of the bill so I can read it. And

1205
01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:00,720
Speaker 6: she said, oh, okay, most people don't want that.

1206
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you're like, because you're like one in a million.

1207
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:07,120
Speaker 6: Who right, So, like what they're boiling down?

1208
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:07,840
Speaker 3: What was the bill?

1209
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:15,240
Speaker 1: It was on abortion rights? Yeah, yeah, right.

1210
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 3: So it's pro life.

1211
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:17,519
Speaker 1: Okay, what's that?

1212
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 5: You know?

1213
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 6: It's like okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can imagine

1214
01:10:23,400 --> 01:10:26,800
Speaker 6: how like the petition's going around Colorado or phrased right,

1215
01:10:26,840 --> 01:10:28,160
Speaker 6: oh sure, right.

1216
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:31,120
Speaker 3: Well we we don't have to imagine we know exactly.

1217
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:34,800
Speaker 3: Uh no one eats mountain lion meat. We're going out

1218
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:38,560
Speaker 3: there for the head mountains are going to go extinct.

1219
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 3: That's that's the latest one. What else, hunters, you know,

1220
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:46,720
Speaker 3: we're all we're all the guy from Daniel, Wyoming. That's

1221
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 3: who we are. That's why we're out there doing it,

1222
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:49,640
Speaker 3: and so we can take a picture and put it

1223
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 3: on social media. That's it. The not eating mountain lion

1224
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:57,599
Speaker 3: thing has been really eye opening to me. I've never

1225
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:02,000
Speaker 3: a I live in California, so the whole mountain line thing.

1226
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:03,599
Speaker 7: Yeah, you'll never eat one there.

1227
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:04,439
Speaker 1: And even.

1228
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:07,639
Speaker 3: I can't even bring it back if I go out

1229
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 3: of state or you know wherever.

1230
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:13,000
Speaker 7: But really, yeah, you hide back commissioner.

1231
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:15,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I didn't know. I thought that was just

1232
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:19,280
Speaker 1: that they thought it was hypocritical on his part. I

1233
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:21,360
Speaker 1: didn't know that there was a band on bringing them back.

1234
01:11:21,439 --> 01:11:24,599
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, you can have a museum. If I started museum,

1235
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:26,639
Speaker 3: then I can bring whatever I want back. But yeah,

1236
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:29,680
Speaker 3: I cannot bring a hide back, even a fully taxidermied

1237
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:35,840
Speaker 3: yea piece you cannot with fully taxidermy from another state

1238
01:11:35,880 --> 01:11:36,479
Speaker 3: that allows it.

1239
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:38,680
Speaker 2: You cannot, Oh, crazy.

1240
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:39,680
Speaker 1: Ship man, I don't know how. I didn't know that,

1241
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:40,439
Speaker 1: but I didn't know that.

1242
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:43,840
Speaker 3: So I wanted to know because I've heard from so

1243
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:45,880
Speaker 3: many people and I knew this, but I wanted to know,

1244
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 3: you know, kind of publicly on social media, Hey, who

1245
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:51,680
Speaker 3: eats mountainlin Send me your pictures, send me the send

1246
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 3: me the recipe, send me the cuisine. Whatever. Flooded with pictures,

1247
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:58,559
Speaker 3: flooded with the best you know, mountain lion, egg roll

1248
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:02,280
Speaker 3: mount you know, mountain lion whatever. And you know, so

1249
01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:04,680
Speaker 3: we created a bunch of videos. I think CRWM just

1250
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:07,799
Speaker 3: put up one, actually we did on the entire video

1251
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:10,040
Speaker 3: where it's showing food and kind of talking about what's

1252
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:12,639
Speaker 3: going on in Colorado. And then, by the way, everything

1253
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 3: you just saw that was all my on line. You know.

1254
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 3: So so anyway that cats aren't trophies. They are one

1255
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:22,559
Speaker 3: hundred percent just relying on lies. That's what they're telling

1256
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:25,160
Speaker 3: people when they're gathering signatures, you know, where they're getting

1257
01:12:25,200 --> 01:12:28,799
Speaker 3: paid what was it seven to ten bucks a signature? Yeah, crazy,

1258
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:35,240
Speaker 3: it's it's a the process of ballot box biology. That's

1259
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:41,880
Speaker 3: really the issue, right, I think it's better understood. Robbie

1260
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:44,080
Speaker 3: itt Blood or just did a great video on this today.

1261
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:48,120
Speaker 3: But it's better understood if you take a different industry.

1262
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:52,200
Speaker 3: Take I don't know, surgeons or whatnot. You know, in

1263
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:55,800
Speaker 3: the in the medical field, should we go to the

1264
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 3: public and say this is how doctors should perform surgery.

1265
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:03,840
Speaker 3: Should be override that, you know, by public opinion. And

1266
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:05,800
Speaker 3: and when we're out there getting those signatures, we can

1267
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,840
Speaker 3: say whatever we want. There's no fact checks, doesn't matter.

1268
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:11,679
Speaker 3: You can when you're you know, collecting signatures, you can,

1269
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:13,960
Speaker 3: like I said, you can say, you know, mountain lions

1270
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 3: aren't eaten, they're going to be extinct. Whatever. You can

1271
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 3: say whatever you want to get the signatures.

1272
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:21,880
Speaker 2: All hunters are like this guy and Cody.

1273
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:26,360
Speaker 3: Excuse me, this guy Cody, Yeah, yeah, and Daniel and

1274
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 3: Daniel and and now doctors have to follow these procedures

1275
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:38,280
Speaker 3: for brain surgery. We have wildlife professionals who go to school,

1276
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:41,240
Speaker 3: they have their doctors, they have their PhDs, they have

1277
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:44,400
Speaker 3: you know whatever, who are managing wildlife and that's their job,

1278
01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:47,760
Speaker 3: that's their profession. I don't think people really understand that.

1279
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:51,799
Speaker 3: So when you supersede that with going to the public,

1280
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:54,360
Speaker 3: making up lies and changing what they're able to do

1281
01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:57,960
Speaker 3: or not able to do. That's the real I mean

1282
01:13:58,240 --> 01:14:01,640
Speaker 3: to me, that's the real danger there. Not that biologists

1283
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 3: are perfect, not that our state agencies make the most

1284
01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:09,320
Speaker 3: perfect decisions, but I think they are the experts that

1285
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:11,559
Speaker 3: we have to rely on and that we can you know,

1286
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:15,920
Speaker 3: kind of hold the we can hold them accountable right

1287
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:19,439
Speaker 3: for the actions that they that they decide on or

1288
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:24,599
Speaker 3: that they you know, advise to the commissions to make decides,

1289
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:29,240
Speaker 3: to make decisions on the real problem here is ballot

1290
01:14:29,240 --> 01:14:34,240
Speaker 3: box biology. That's what That's what we got to inform

1291
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 3: the public on it. You know, like what danger? What

1292
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:39,720
Speaker 3: danger you bringing to the table? When? When when these

1293
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 3: things are allowed to come to a vote?

1294
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:49,760
Speaker 8: Right, That's always been the anti hunting establishment's goal is

1295
01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 8: to win in the area of public perception in public arena.

1296
01:14:53,080 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not getting what they want. They can't don't

1297
01:14:56,439 --> 01:14:58,839
Speaker 1: they don't get what they want from fishing game agencies,

1298
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 1: they don't get what they want from get commissions, and

1299
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:03,000
Speaker 1: so they the idea is you take it to the

1300
01:15:03,080 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 1: voters and turn something that you know, you'll take a

1301
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:10,720
Speaker 1: policy issue that isn't going the way you want through

1302
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:13,759
Speaker 1: establish channels and try to drive it on public opinion,

1303
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:17,120
Speaker 1: which I mean to be fair, happens in other areas.

1304
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:20,439
Speaker 1: It happens in other areas as well. But people have

1305
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 1: pointed out the chaos that would ensue if every piece

1306
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:29,599
Speaker 1: of policy was driven by a a metric of public

1307
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 1: opinion about it in that.

1308
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:37,600
Speaker 8: Moment, So, like you know what Charles was saying, we

1309
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:41,519
Speaker 8: have professionals and they follow science, and they have data

1310
01:15:42,479 --> 01:15:48,599
Speaker 8: that makes informed decisions, where the anti hunters want us

1311
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:50,680
Speaker 8: to deal with strictly like on emotion, and they deal

1312
01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:53,599
Speaker 8: with social sciences, and it's the only science that they

1313
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 8: can manipulate. Like when we first got started, we were

1314
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:58,720
Speaker 8: dealing with a bill in California that was trying to

1315
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 8: get rid of bear hunting.

1316
01:16:00,680 --> 01:16:01,960
Speaker 2: They had did a poll.

1317
01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:05,600
Speaker 8: And it said, oh, you know, I don't remember what

1318
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 8: the numbers were, arbitrary number like eighty five percent of

1319
01:16:08,520 --> 01:16:11,920
Speaker 8: the public doesn't want us to bear hunt anymore. And

1320
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:15,479
Speaker 8: the questions they were asking, there's not a single hunter

1321
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:20,040
Speaker 8: that I know that would not agree with the question

1322
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:22,000
Speaker 8: that they were asked. They were asking like, are you

1323
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:25,240
Speaker 8: opposed to lopping off a bear's head?

1324
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:26,720
Speaker 2: And leaving it out in the woods.

1325
01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:29,040
Speaker 8: No, okay, I'm not. I mean, I mean, yes, I

1326
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:30,400
Speaker 8: am a post to that. No, I would not like

1327
01:16:30,439 --> 01:16:32,680
Speaker 8: to see that. You know, are do you? Are you

1328
01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:38,360
Speaker 8: okay with you know, shooting cubs and shooting sALS with cubs. No,

1329
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:41,120
Speaker 8: you know, So, like, of course they're going to come

1330
01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:44,559
Speaker 8: up with eighty five percent, because even hunters are going

1331
01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:48,600
Speaker 8: to say agree with you know, or go along with

1332
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:49,880
Speaker 8: what they just they.

1333
01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:51,439
Speaker 3: Just paint a picture that just isn't reality.

1334
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:54,680
Speaker 6: But we're living in a society and Steve's pointed this

1335
01:16:54,720 --> 01:17:01,640
Speaker 6: out many many times, where the the structure of regulated

1336
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:06,240
Speaker 6: hunting is a surprise to a huge portion of the

1337
01:17:06,360 --> 01:17:11,160
Speaker 6: voting population. Right, they're like, oh, oh interesting, there's population

1338
01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:13,479
Speaker 6: studies and this is data driven, and then there's a

1339
01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:15,600
Speaker 6: portion of that and then this is account Well what

1340
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:17,559
Speaker 6: about roadkill? Is that account Oh it is?

1341
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:19,759
Speaker 2: Okay? Well yeah, right, it's.

1342
01:17:19,640 --> 01:17:24,880
Speaker 6: Like like it or not. There's the burden of education

1343
01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:26,800
Speaker 6: is always going to be on us, right, It's like

1344
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 6: we're I don't mind taking the high road, but we're

1345
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:34,960
Speaker 6: constantly forced into the high road side of things, and

1346
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:38,600
Speaker 6: that takes a lot more time per person.

1347
01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 8: Right, yep, Yeah, Yeah, when we were in Utah, we

1348
01:17:40,800 --> 01:17:43,840
Speaker 8: were This was really evident to us because we were

1349
01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:47,519
Speaker 8: riding in ubers and stuff like to go to dinner

1350
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:49,920
Speaker 8: or whatever. And every time we were inn uber, we

1351
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:54,479
Speaker 8: would engage with the driver and everyone that we talked

1352
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:57,120
Speaker 8: to didn't know that there was seasons, didn't know.

1353
01:17:57,080 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 2: That we had to go buy tags.

1354
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:00,759
Speaker 8: Basically, their idea was that you can go to Walmart,

1355
01:18:01,120 --> 01:18:03,559
Speaker 8: buy a gun, got in a field, and shoot whatever

1356
01:18:03,560 --> 01:18:06,599
Speaker 8: the heck you want, and there's no there was no

1357
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:11,080
Speaker 8: perception of like well or they would perceive a Even

1358
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:13,479
Speaker 8: the ones that knew about tags, that a tag meant

1359
01:18:13,479 --> 01:18:15,680
Speaker 8: a dead animal, they didn't know it was, you know,

1360
01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:19,360
Speaker 8: a nine percent chance of you actually killing something, you know,

1361
01:18:19,439 --> 01:18:22,080
Speaker 8: with that or harvesting an elkin or with that tag

1362
01:18:22,160 --> 01:18:26,160
Speaker 8: or whatever. And there was just all these things that

1363
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:29,400
Speaker 8: we hunters know about and we take for granted seasons,

1364
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:32,320
Speaker 8: draws and all these other little things that the general

1365
01:18:32,360 --> 01:18:34,760
Speaker 8: public doesn't know. The non public doesn't, you know, non

1366
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:37,160
Speaker 8: hunting public doesn't know. So if they don't know that,

1367
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:40,400
Speaker 8: and the only thing that they're being exposed to on

1368
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:43,800
Speaker 8: a constant basis is what the anti hunters are feeding.

1369
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:46,479
Speaker 8: Of course, they're gonna have this preconceived notion of who

1370
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:49,559
Speaker 8: the hunter is. They're gonna think you're Elmer Fudd. You know,

1371
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:50,960
Speaker 8: they're gonna think you're a redneck.

1372
01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:54,679
Speaker 1: You Elmer Fudd never got anything true.

1373
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:55,920
Speaker 3: This is true.

1374
01:18:56,240 --> 01:19:01,880
Speaker 1: I've found often all throughout my life talking to urban people,

1375
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:07,840
Speaker 1: to have them be pleasantly surprised, to learn about the

1376
01:19:07,880 --> 01:19:12,519
Speaker 1: regulatory structure, pleasantly surprised. And then you want to go like, oh,

1377
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 1: those cities slicking idiots, But put yourself in their shoes.

1378
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:21,400
Speaker 1: Let's say you're talking to someone you know. You go,

1379
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 1: you're someone from where I grew up and you know,

1380
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:30,880
Speaker 1: rural West Michigan. Meet someone from Manhattan. You must live

1381
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:33,439
Speaker 1: in a war zone. I bet you can't even go

1382
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:36,439
Speaker 1: outside without getting raped and mugged, you.

1383
01:19:36,479 --> 01:19:36,920
Speaker 5: Know what I mean.

1384
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:39,880
Speaker 1: It's like people just aren't aware of other people's worlds.

1385
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 1: So it's not to go and look at someone who

1386
01:19:42,479 --> 01:19:46,080
Speaker 1: doesn't hunt, doesn't grow up around hunting, isn't exposed to hunting,

1387
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:50,800
Speaker 1: that they have a totally different idea about it. Well yeah, right,

1388
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:53,120
Speaker 1: and you know what too, The people I hang out

1389
01:19:53,160 --> 01:19:55,679
Speaker 1: with a lot of times are idiots about urban life. Right,

1390
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:58,240
Speaker 1: of course, because okay, tell me a thing or two

1391
01:19:58,280 --> 01:20:02,719
Speaker 1: about the subway system. You just get robbed, Like, dude,

1392
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:04,680
Speaker 1: there's people have been riding somebodys fifty years and never

1393
01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:06,400
Speaker 1: seen a robbery, you know what I mean. But you

1394
01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:09,280
Speaker 1: don't know, you jump to conclusions and you have wild ideas.

1395
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:12,000
Speaker 1: It's like a human it's a it's a human problem

1396
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:16,560
Speaker 1: rather than anything else. And then there are people that

1397
01:20:16,560 --> 01:20:19,519
Speaker 1: that in the other direction are educated about it and

1398
01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:22,640
Speaker 1: choose to just manipulate reality, right right, And that's like

1399
01:20:23,320 --> 01:20:26,759
Speaker 1: far less excusable than just being ignorant of a world

1400
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:29,360
Speaker 1: that you don't have any reason to have ever been educated.

1401
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:31,800
Speaker 8: On that world, you know, Yeah, it's it always comes

1402
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:35,599
Speaker 8: out to education. And I think as a group hunters

1403
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:37,559
Speaker 8: we do a pretty good job of getting on our

1404
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:40,120
Speaker 8: soapbox and talking to each other m hm, but we

1405
01:20:40,160 --> 01:20:42,799
Speaker 8: don't ever talk to the non hunting public. We're probably

1406
01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:45,680
Speaker 8: not going to change anti hunter's minds. But okay, let's

1407
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:50,080
Speaker 8: leave that five percent alone. But that the ninety percent

1408
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:52,880
Speaker 8: in between us, they're they're willing to listen everyone that

1409
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:55,240
Speaker 8: we talked to, and like, you know, that's not even

1410
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:57,920
Speaker 8: last night. We were at a comedy club here and

1411
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:01,160
Speaker 8: there were we were we got you. They're all gonna watch,

1412
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:04,760
Speaker 8: They're all gonna listen to mediator. Yeah, we had the

1413
01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:09,800
Speaker 8: whole crag outing, but you know they're willing to listen

1414
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:12,720
Speaker 8: if you're giving them. Oh you know, I didn't know

1415
01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:14,720
Speaker 8: that about this. So I didn't know that about that.

1416
01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:15,479
Speaker 2: And and they.

1417
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:22,280
Speaker 8: What we're doing by having those conversations is next time

1418
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:24,800
Speaker 8: some bill comes up or something comes up, now they'll

1419
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:26,280
Speaker 8: be like, oh, you know, I remember so and so,

1420
01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:28,320
Speaker 8: or I know so and so from work.

1421
01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:30,960
Speaker 2: And you know, Steve's a good guy. Steve told me this.

1422
01:21:31,880 --> 01:21:33,160
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm I don't.

1423
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:34,720
Speaker 8: Necessarily believe I'm gonna look into this a little bit

1424
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:37,160
Speaker 8: more before I put my name on it, or I'm

1425
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:38,640
Speaker 8: not going to vote that way because I know this

1426
01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:40,160
Speaker 8: is BS or whatever.

1427
01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:43,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's always been an objective of mine. And

1428
01:21:43,479 --> 01:21:47,439
Speaker 1: in imagining that you're having conversations like like through a

1429
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:49,760
Speaker 1: career and talking about hunting and talking about fishing and

1430
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:54,439
Speaker 1: natural resources issues, I have this picture that I'm that

1431
01:21:54,479 --> 01:22:00,439
Speaker 1: there's two audiences. One audience is people from completely outside

1432
01:22:00,479 --> 01:22:06,720
Speaker 1: of that world looking in, maybe just voyeuristically. Maybe they're

1433
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:09,080
Speaker 1: looking in because they're curious, maybe looking in because they're

1434
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:11,840
Speaker 1: deeply suspicious, but whatever they're looking in on this world.

1435
01:22:12,320 --> 01:22:14,479
Speaker 1: And there's also a conversation that you're always having with

1436
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:17,720
Speaker 1: people that are from the world. I much prefer the

1437
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:21,160
Speaker 1: conversations with people that are from the world. Sure, like

1438
01:22:21,280 --> 01:22:23,240
Speaker 1: that's just more engaging to me. But I'm aware of

1439
01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:25,559
Speaker 1: this other conversation with people that are looking in, and

1440
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:30,640
Speaker 1: I imagine some of the time that backfires. But I

1441
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:33,400
Speaker 1: think a majority of the time, in my experience, which

1442
01:22:33,400 --> 01:22:36,599
Speaker 1: is long now, the majority of time it creates a

1443
01:22:36,640 --> 01:22:42,680
Speaker 1: bit of understanding and some sympathy. Meaning if they go

1444
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:45,679
Speaker 1: to a Whole Foods and they're presented with the thing

1445
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 1: that would be stop hunting. Yeah, those who spend time

1446
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:54,639
Speaker 1: looking in are gonna more be like what cal said, Well,

1447
01:22:54,880 --> 01:22:57,280
Speaker 1: let me see, because I like, I hang out with

1448
01:22:57,320 --> 01:22:59,120
Speaker 1: some of those guys. I know some of those guys.

1449
01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:02,240
Speaker 1: I've eaten your meat over some of those guys houses,

1450
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:05,880
Speaker 1: the guys I know that are into that world. No

1451
01:23:05,920 --> 01:23:08,400
Speaker 1: a shitload about wildlife and really love wildlife. Let me

1452
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:13,800
Speaker 1: take a look. Rather than yeah, I'll sign it hunting,

1453
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:15,680
Speaker 1: screw that, do you know what I mean? I think

1454
01:23:15,720 --> 01:23:22,719
Speaker 1: you generally like a majority of interactions create a sympathy,

1455
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:26,960
Speaker 1: understanding empathy of course, or a desire to engage.

1456
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:28,719
Speaker 2: You know, that's part of what we're working.

1457
01:23:30,160 --> 01:23:34,680
Speaker 3: So imagine I live in San Francisco. Well now I'm

1458
01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:36,679
Speaker 3: a few miles outside, but I was there for a while.

1459
01:23:37,360 --> 01:23:39,840
Speaker 3: Imagine you go to San Francisco. Imagine go to Portland, Mangico,

1460
01:23:39,920 --> 01:23:43,559
Speaker 3: the Denver, wherever. Here. You drive down the highway and

1461
01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:47,760
Speaker 3: you see billboards that are framed for the general non

1462
01:23:47,880 --> 01:23:51,040
Speaker 3: hunting public about what hunting is, not to become a hunter,

1463
01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:54,920
Speaker 3: but to understand what hunting is right to tackle. I

1464
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:59,960
Speaker 3: don't know things that they don't know, conservation, ecological, economical,

1465
01:24:01,160 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 3: the the historical, the cultural aspects, whatever it is. Play

1466
01:24:07,040 --> 01:24:10,839
Speaker 3: on their emotions about people who do hunt and their stories.

1467
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:13,800
Speaker 3: And wow, women hunt, did you know that?

1468
01:24:13,920 --> 01:24:14,120
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1469
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:16,920
Speaker 3: Women hunt? Black people hunt? Did you know that?

1470
01:24:17,040 --> 01:24:17,240
Speaker 9: You know?

1471
01:24:17,439 --> 01:24:20,680
Speaker 3: Like, let's change the narrative a little bit. When you

1472
01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 3: turn on the TV, you see the I don't know

1473
01:24:23,920 --> 01:24:25,960
Speaker 3: if it's on anymore, but Sarah mclachy, you know you

1474
01:24:26,040 --> 01:24:28,559
Speaker 3: got the Humane Society commercials right.

1475
01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:31,960
Speaker 1: Saramhl glaughlan through with those guys. What was her big.

1476
01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:33,559
Speaker 2: Hit in the arms of an angel.

1477
01:24:33,680 --> 01:24:39,759
Speaker 3: You know, she had a lot, so she had a big, big.

1478
01:24:39,640 --> 01:24:42,320
Speaker 4: Hit, probably in the art.

1479
01:24:42,760 --> 01:24:43,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was.

1480
01:24:43,479 --> 01:24:44,760
Speaker 3: I think there's a few. Big dude.

1481
01:24:44,800 --> 01:24:47,120
Speaker 1: Phil for a minute, pulled his mic up to his lips,

1482
01:24:49,360 --> 01:24:52,200
Speaker 1: thought better of it and moved it away. What was it, Phil,

1483
01:24:52,680 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 1: I'm not it's in the arms of it.

1484
01:24:54,320 --> 01:24:55,640
Speaker 10: That's that's the big one, and that's the one they

1485
01:24:55,680 --> 01:25:01,639
Speaker 10: played on those.

1486
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:01,439
Speaker 1: You can say, ca on Phil, Phil, can you aim

1487
01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:03,439
Speaker 1: the camera at me? It's on you?

1488
01:25:03,520 --> 01:25:03,760
Speaker 3: Okay?

1489
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:05,320
Speaker 1: Filled in one of these.

1490
01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:12,040
Speaker 8: And you read my mind exactly.

1491
01:25:12,160 --> 01:25:17,679
Speaker 3: Yes. So imagine if you're on the TVC commercials about

1492
01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:21,160
Speaker 3: this messaging that would be framed for the general public

1493
01:25:21,200 --> 01:25:23,880
Speaker 3: to understand it. Why do we not have this? This

1494
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:26,439
Speaker 3: is a billion dollar industry. We spend a lot of

1495
01:25:26,439 --> 01:25:29,360
Speaker 3: money on habitat, a lot of money on and a

1496
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:32,040
Speaker 3: lot of things. A lot of money's coming through Pittman Robertson.

1497
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:34,519
Speaker 3: What is it now, twenty billion?

1498
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:35,320
Speaker 2: It's a lot.

1499
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:38,600
Speaker 3: It's a lot since it's since nineteen thirty seven, Oh.

1500
01:25:38,320 --> 01:25:41,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, all through Yeah, close to a billion bucks a

1501
01:25:41,320 --> 01:25:42,240
Speaker 1: couple of years ago.

1502
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:47,160
Speaker 8: Bro On, one point three years ago, just in one year, yeah,

1503
01:25:47,400 --> 01:25:49,240
Speaker 8: in twenty twenty.

1504
01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:51,920
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, I did the COVID personal Firearm Bump.

1505
01:25:52,360 --> 01:25:53,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.

1506
01:25:53,479 --> 01:25:56,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, people, I would like to point out that it's

1507
01:25:56,160 --> 01:25:58,479
Speaker 1: told it's so fair and so true that you can't

1508
01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:01,000
Speaker 1: talk about Pittman, Roberts and Fun without pointing out this

1509
01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:06,639
Speaker 1: reality that money. I mean, let's be honest, that money's

1510
01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:07,320
Speaker 1: gun owners.

1511
01:26:07,920 --> 01:26:10,200
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, a lot like like a lot.

1512
01:26:10,479 --> 01:26:12,880
Speaker 1: You can break those gun owners out, but that money.

1513
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:17,519
Speaker 2: Is well gun owners or hunters though, sure, But I'm

1514
01:26:17,560 --> 01:26:18,479
Speaker 2: not consistent.

1515
01:26:19,560 --> 01:26:22,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just at a time. I think at a

1516
01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:25,680
Speaker 1: time when you did that excise, when you for that

1517
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:28,880
Speaker 1: excise tax in nineteen thirty seven, it was viewed as like, well,

1518
01:26:28,880 --> 01:26:31,559
Speaker 1: who's gonna be paying this? Yeah, hunters. It has just

1519
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:35,000
Speaker 1: come to be that as cultural things have changed and

1520
01:26:35,200 --> 01:26:39,880
Speaker 1: time's going on, that was that was had they at

1521
01:26:39,880 --> 01:26:42,920
Speaker 1: the time. Let me put it this way, if at

1522
01:26:42,920 --> 01:26:45,360
Speaker 1: the time of the enactment of that act, if they

1523
01:26:45,360 --> 01:26:48,040
Speaker 1: had said you need to check a box about what

1524
01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:51,240
Speaker 1: you're gonna do with that firearm and if if you

1525
01:26:51,360 --> 01:26:54,080
Speaker 1: put down hunting, then it goes to the Pittman robertson fun.

1526
01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:57,439
Speaker 1: If they had done that, that fund would be a

1527
01:26:57,720 --> 01:27:01,120
Speaker 1: would be much much, much much smaller today than it is,

1528
01:27:01,240 --> 01:27:02,920
Speaker 1: just out of fairness, way different.

1529
01:27:03,080 --> 01:27:06,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. So when you're talking about like promoting, what I'm saying, Yeah,

1530
01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:09,840
Speaker 3: this arbitrary numbers to say seventy million dollars a year

1531
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:15,679
Speaker 3: that we as an industry spend on a media campaign

1532
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:18,400
Speaker 3: throughout the United States a Super Bowl commercial, and I'm

1533
01:27:18,400 --> 01:27:21,479
Speaker 3: just saying seventy million. Yeah, but we changed three percent,

1534
01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:24,879
Speaker 3: five percent, six percent. This is a generation. We're basically

1535
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:29,479
Speaker 3: doing what the anti hunters have done over decades. They

1536
01:27:29,479 --> 01:27:33,120
Speaker 3: have slowly changed the mind. They've they've a sea change

1537
01:27:33,160 --> 01:27:34,920
Speaker 3: rather and I grew up in Michigan too. There was

1538
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:37,360
Speaker 3: a time in my life where I thought I didn't

1539
01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:40,639
Speaker 3: know people didn't hunt right. Times have changed.

1540
01:27:42,040 --> 01:27:46,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. Pat Durkin, speaking of Wisconsin, once said, if you're

1541
01:27:46,280 --> 01:27:50,240
Speaker 1: not a deer hunter, you share bed with one, right, right,

1542
01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:52,400
Speaker 1: or maybe a house with one. But you get talk

1543
01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:56,960
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, so that's what it's fun Yeah, it's

1544
01:27:56,960 --> 01:27:59,519
Speaker 1: funny to bring up the billboard thing, because anti hunters

1545
01:27:59,560 --> 01:28:02,120
Speaker 1: use the bill board campaigns all the time, very effectively

1546
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:06,080
Speaker 1: and very in a very manipulative, manipulative way. And caw

1547
01:28:06,280 --> 01:28:09,960
Speaker 1: was pointing out one around here where there's a they're

1548
01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:13,920
Speaker 1: they're equating that dlisting of grizzlies would mean hunting. And

1549
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:16,280
Speaker 1: so there's a picture of a saw with cubs and

1550
01:28:16,280 --> 01:28:19,240
Speaker 1: there's a crosshair on the sows on the sow, he'd

1551
01:28:19,240 --> 01:28:23,599
Speaker 1: be like, I can assure you a couple one thing.

1552
01:28:24,160 --> 01:28:28,120
Speaker 1: The last time they moved to d list Montana wasn't

1553
01:28:28,120 --> 01:28:32,960
Speaker 1: issuing any grizzy tags. Right, I can damn sure tell

1554
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:36,080
Speaker 1: you that since you can't shoot a sow black bear

1555
01:28:36,640 --> 01:28:41,600
Speaker 1: with cubs, there is no way in the world that

1556
01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:45,160
Speaker 1: they're going to open up and extend any harvest that

1557
01:28:45,200 --> 01:28:48,240
Speaker 1: would happen in the future to sows accompanied by cubs.

1558
01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:49,479
Speaker 2: Sure, well, those are the lies.

1559
01:28:49,680 --> 01:28:52,680
Speaker 1: There's there's one right now. There's an organization that has

1560
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:57,200
Speaker 1: always put pushed for a public land trapping band. The

1561
01:28:57,280 --> 01:29:01,160
Speaker 1: wolverines were recently listed. And this is a whole deep conversation,

1562
01:29:01,240 --> 01:29:05,280
Speaker 1: but wolverine's were recently listed as threatened under the ESA.

1563
01:29:05,560 --> 01:29:09,440
Speaker 1: There's now a billboard in town from Gallaton Valley Wildlife Association.

1564
01:29:09,520 --> 01:29:13,040
Speaker 1: I think it's like a mostly anti hunting group. They

1565
01:29:13,080 --> 01:29:16,080
Speaker 1: have a billboard that says, and these are people that

1566
01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:18,320
Speaker 1: always wanted to see a trapping band. It now says

1567
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:23,240
Speaker 1: stop trapping on public land save the endangered wolverine.

1568
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:25,080
Speaker 7: Well, that's part of the problems.

1569
01:29:25,360 --> 01:29:27,639
Speaker 1: It is threatened. You can't trap them anyway.

1570
01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:31,920
Speaker 10: That's part of the problem with like promoting the positives

1571
01:29:31,960 --> 01:29:35,719
Speaker 10: when you're always forced to be in a reactionary position,

1572
01:29:36,240 --> 01:29:39,280
Speaker 10: and like fighting these kind of things, like the dude

1573
01:29:39,280 --> 01:29:42,200
Speaker 10: in Wyoming is screwed up, Like you're constantly in a

1574
01:29:42,240 --> 01:29:46,200
Speaker 10: position of defending yourself rather than promoting yourself.

1575
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:48,639
Speaker 1: And if you do promote it, do you do their

1576
01:29:48,680 --> 01:29:51,000
Speaker 1: playbook and just put up totally outrageous lies.

1577
01:29:51,720 --> 01:29:52,840
Speaker 3: I don't think we need to be.

1578
01:29:53,000 --> 01:29:57,320
Speaker 1: Like hunters are one hundred times more likely than anyone

1579
01:29:57,360 --> 01:29:59,599
Speaker 1: else to be great people.

1580
01:30:01,479 --> 01:30:04,160
Speaker 7: Have you ever been in an accident hitting a deer,

1581
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:08,679
Speaker 7: Well shoot them all before they kill you.

1582
01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:08,760
Speaker 9: No.

1583
01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:10,720
Speaker 8: But the biggest problem is that we live in a

1584
01:30:10,760 --> 01:30:14,360
Speaker 8: world right now that we are dealing with these just

1585
01:30:14,479 --> 01:30:18,479
Speaker 8: memes and little quick right hits, and and the anti

1586
01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:23,679
Speaker 8: hunters have such a easy job of swaying public perception,

1587
01:30:24,080 --> 01:30:26,400
Speaker 8: like it's very easy to post a picture of a

1588
01:30:26,479 --> 01:30:29,440
Speaker 8: guy with a holding a deer with a bloody background

1589
01:30:29,520 --> 01:30:34,760
Speaker 8: and whatever, and very negative thoughts are going to come

1590
01:30:34,760 --> 01:30:36,479
Speaker 8: to your head, Like you know, if yours don't know

1591
01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:39,519
Speaker 8: what hunting is if you're not exposed to hunting. So

1592
01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:44,800
Speaker 8: we have this like super hard job of like how

1593
01:30:44,840 --> 01:30:48,519
Speaker 8: do we tell people about conservation, about the money, about

1594
01:30:48,520 --> 01:30:51,599
Speaker 8: the caring of the wildlife, about the human intrinsic values

1595
01:30:51,600 --> 01:30:54,120
Speaker 8: and the things that the meals and all, like all

1596
01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:56,960
Speaker 8: these good things that come about with hunting. You know,

1597
01:30:56,960 --> 01:30:59,439
Speaker 8: it's probably it's changed, I know, probably everybody's life in

1598
01:30:59,439 --> 01:31:02,800
Speaker 8: this room, right. How do we have those conversations when

1599
01:31:02,800 --> 01:31:06,240
Speaker 8: you only have three seconds to do it? You know,

1600
01:31:06,720 --> 01:31:09,320
Speaker 8: if we had the chance to have like a podcast

1601
01:31:09,479 --> 01:31:13,040
Speaker 8: or three hour discussion and nuanced discussion with everybody that

1602
01:31:13,120 --> 01:31:16,280
Speaker 8: you encounter, it'd be a lot easier job.

1603
01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:19,200
Speaker 2: But we don't. So we have to start coming up

1604
01:31:19,240 --> 01:31:19,759
Speaker 2: with ways.

1605
01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:23,040
Speaker 8: And I think it's on us to have to start

1606
01:31:23,080 --> 01:31:25,639
Speaker 8: talking to we all, you know, we all know people

1607
01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:26,960
Speaker 8: that don't hunt.

1608
01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:28,560
Speaker 2: We all interact with people.

1609
01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:32,120
Speaker 8: At work and you know, at the store or whatever

1610
01:31:32,400 --> 01:31:35,480
Speaker 8: that don't hunt. So let's start giving them positive interactions

1611
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:38,400
Speaker 8: with us. Let's start communicating these things with us. Because

1612
01:31:38,400 --> 01:31:40,800
Speaker 8: there's what I don't know. The numbers keep changing. Somewhere

1613
01:31:40,840 --> 01:31:43,640
Speaker 8: between fourteen to sixteen million people that hunt in the

1614
01:31:43,760 --> 01:31:49,880
Speaker 8: United States if one of if we change the mind

1615
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:53,640
Speaker 8: of one or talk to one person every year, you know,

1616
01:31:53,680 --> 01:31:56,000
Speaker 8: in ten years we might be a lot closer to,

1617
01:31:56,600 --> 01:31:59,559
Speaker 8: you know, having a better understanding with the general public

1618
01:31:59,640 --> 01:32:02,439
Speaker 8: or the non hunting public. I should say, of what

1619
01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:03,160
Speaker 8: hunting is.

1620
01:32:03,960 --> 01:32:06,679
Speaker 3: I don't personally want to see more hunters. I want

1621
01:32:06,720 --> 01:32:08,640
Speaker 3: that I'd like to see less hunters. I want to

1622
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:12,040
Speaker 3: see more people accept what hunting is, and not just that,

1623
01:32:12,080 --> 01:32:16,240
Speaker 3: but also understand that hunting is an effective management tool

1624
01:32:16,280 --> 01:32:19,200
Speaker 3: that is used by these agencies that people don't even

1625
01:32:19,280 --> 01:32:20,800
Speaker 3: know exists in the first place. They don't even know

1626
01:32:20,880 --> 01:32:22,920
Speaker 3: these agencies exist. So there's a lot of education that

1627
01:32:22,960 --> 01:32:26,680
Speaker 3: happen there. But what John was saying, you know, we

1628
01:32:26,720 --> 01:32:28,320
Speaker 3: all talked to one person, and we all talked to

1629
01:32:28,360 --> 01:32:32,200
Speaker 3: two people or whatever. How do you use I mean,

1630
01:32:32,320 --> 01:32:36,360
Speaker 3: I see that as having a positive effect on the

1631
01:32:36,479 --> 01:32:39,519
Speaker 3: perception of what hunting is to the general not ending public.

1632
01:32:39,560 --> 01:32:43,840
Speaker 3: Do you do you feel the same way? I mean,

1633
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:46,559
Speaker 3: your show's on Netflix. That has to You're not just

1634
01:32:46,760 --> 01:32:48,439
Speaker 3: it's not just hunters watching your show.

1635
01:32:48,320 --> 01:32:53,400
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah. I find it interesting that the oldest representational

1636
01:32:53,560 --> 01:32:57,200
Speaker 1: art on Earth is people cataloging.

1637
01:32:57,600 --> 01:33:02,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, the hunts first ever, Yeah.

1638
01:33:02,120 --> 01:33:06,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't know what's in their mind. I've always

1639
01:33:08,360 --> 01:33:12,280
Speaker 1: written about what I'm interested in and written about my world,

1640
01:33:12,400 --> 01:33:15,360
Speaker 1: and as a writer or a creator of some sort,

1641
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:18,520
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about a certain set of ideas,

1642
01:33:19,160 --> 01:33:22,880
Speaker 1: and as time changes and technology changes, I'm going to

1643
01:33:22,920 --> 01:33:26,000
Speaker 1: continue to talk about a set of ideas that I'm

1644
01:33:26,040 --> 01:33:29,920
Speaker 1: interested in and I feel compelled to discuss in whatever

1645
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:35,280
Speaker 1: way is available for me to talk about them. I

1646
01:33:35,320 --> 01:33:39,200
Speaker 1: think that had Uh to go back to and in

1647
01:33:39,240 --> 01:33:41,120
Speaker 1: no way would ever equate myself to him. But if

1648
01:33:41,160 --> 01:33:44,280
Speaker 1: you go back to someone like Roosevelt or you know,

1649
01:33:44,280 --> 01:33:47,559
Speaker 1: I mentioned Leopold earlier, I think that they would have

1650
01:33:47,600 --> 01:33:50,280
Speaker 1: taken the ideas that they dealt in and they would

1651
01:33:50,280 --> 01:33:52,280
Speaker 1: have talked about them on podcasts. I think they would

1652
01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:54,040
Speaker 1: have talked about them on social media. They would have

1653
01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:56,680
Speaker 1: not have limited it to books, they would have not

1654
01:33:56,840 --> 01:34:01,040
Speaker 1: limited it to articles. They were vocal about their enthusiasms

1655
01:34:01,120 --> 01:34:04,439
Speaker 1: and vocal about their love, and they had a big impact,

1656
01:34:04,479 --> 01:34:06,360
Speaker 1: and they would have talked about in any way possible

1657
01:34:07,360 --> 01:34:11,479
Speaker 1: the argument about there's this kind of pervasive argument about

1658
01:34:12,040 --> 01:34:13,599
Speaker 1: I had someone to actually frame it to me one

1659
01:34:13,680 --> 01:34:19,400
Speaker 1: day about like somehow conservation that get you know, introducing

1660
01:34:19,479 --> 01:34:22,200
Speaker 1: people to the idea of hunting, getting people interested in

1661
01:34:22,280 --> 01:34:26,040
Speaker 1: hunting was bad for conservation. Let's take a look at

1662
01:34:26,080 --> 01:34:30,200
Speaker 1: that for a second. New Mexico is going to issue

1663
01:34:30,240 --> 01:34:35,040
Speaker 1: a certain amount of elk tags. It's capped. Okay, if

1664
01:34:35,080 --> 01:34:38,640
Speaker 1: you're talking about conservation, a bunch of people wanting to

1665
01:34:38,720 --> 01:34:41,439
Speaker 1: apply for elk tags and wanting to go hunting doesn't

1666
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:43,639
Speaker 1: change the number of people that are out hunting. Right

1667
01:34:44,360 --> 01:34:49,479
Speaker 1: They're confusing, oftentimes conservation with convenience, meaning they're mad that

1668
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:52,839
Speaker 1: it's not as convenient to get a tag. Don't tangle

1669
01:34:52,840 --> 01:34:57,720
Speaker 1: this up with conservation. The elk carvest is fixed. Let's

1670
01:34:57,720 --> 01:35:00,840
Speaker 1: talk about conservation for a minute as well. You go

1671
01:35:00,880 --> 01:35:05,040
Speaker 1: to Wisconsin, you go to Michigan, wildlife managers are writing

1672
01:35:05,160 --> 01:35:09,800
Speaker 1: public letters because they cannot get people to harvest enough deer.

1673
01:35:10,680 --> 01:35:18,679
Speaker 1: They're seeing habitat degradation, an unprecedented disease transmission in certain

1674
01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:21,120
Speaker 1: areas because they cannot get the dough harvest up. The

1675
01:35:21,200 --> 01:35:25,120
Speaker 1: people that are hunting now aren't killing. Does not enough

1676
01:35:26,479 --> 01:35:28,679
Speaker 1: conservation in that area. If you want to talk about conservation,

1677
01:35:28,760 --> 01:35:32,640
Speaker 1: conservation in that area would be encouraging a type of

1678
01:35:32,720 --> 01:35:36,160
Speaker 1: hunter motivated by venison to go out and get does

1679
01:35:37,160 --> 01:35:41,080
Speaker 1: that's conservation. Conservation in that case is not saying sh

1680
01:35:41,280 --> 01:35:44,080
Speaker 1: don't tell anybody about hunting. Another thing is I find

1681
01:35:44,720 --> 01:35:49,200
Speaker 1: it's like, here's something that's incredibly common. You'll have people

1682
01:35:49,479 --> 01:35:52,400
Speaker 1: like me that come from a place like I come

1683
01:35:52,400 --> 01:35:58,200
Speaker 1: from Michigan. I moved out to Montana out of an

1684
01:35:58,200 --> 01:36:02,400
Speaker 1: interest in hunting and fishing. When I came to Montana,

1685
01:36:04,200 --> 01:36:09,040
Speaker 1: I moved in on other people's hunting spots. You just did.

1686
01:36:10,840 --> 01:36:15,200
Speaker 1: The only person that has any justification to start bitching

1687
01:36:15,200 --> 01:36:19,520
Speaker 1: about losing their spot to incoming people would be Native Americans.

1688
01:36:19,520 --> 01:36:23,439
Speaker 1: And if you're really, really, really deeply concerned about people

1689
01:36:23,479 --> 01:36:27,200
Speaker 1: that had their hunting spots overrun, you should be involved

1690
01:36:27,200 --> 01:36:30,799
Speaker 1: in the land back movement in helping Native Americans. If not, Buddy,

1691
01:36:31,200 --> 01:36:34,360
Speaker 1: you took someone's spot right when you moved out west.

1692
01:36:34,640 --> 01:36:37,280
Speaker 1: You took someone's spot when you started applying for sheep

1693
01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:39,839
Speaker 1: tags and goat tags and moose tags and drawing those tags.

1694
01:36:40,200 --> 01:36:43,880
Speaker 1: You cut in line from someone that was applying before

1695
01:36:43,920 --> 01:36:47,720
Speaker 1: you were applying. You just did. But people's memories are

1696
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:51,400
Speaker 1: so short. Whatever they were motivated by to move out

1697
01:36:51,400 --> 01:36:54,800
Speaker 1: west and start hunting. They think that that because it

1698
01:36:54,880 --> 01:36:58,840
Speaker 1: was them that was so pure, everybody else since them

1699
01:36:59,000 --> 01:37:02,320
Speaker 1: is just an asshole. It's like, come on, man, right,

1700
01:37:02,680 --> 01:37:04,080
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's like, come on, and

1701
01:37:04,120 --> 01:37:06,519
Speaker 1: there's this other there's this other funny thing too about

1702
01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:10,040
Speaker 1: this like industry thing. Like let's say you work. Let's

1703
01:37:10,040 --> 01:37:12,880
Speaker 1: say you work in an I was pulling it out

1704
01:37:12,880 --> 01:37:15,519
Speaker 1: of thin air. Let's say you worked at the ars

1705
01:37:15,600 --> 01:37:21,200
Speaker 1: where you draw your money from federal taxpayer dollars that

1706
01:37:21,240 --> 01:37:26,479
Speaker 1: are part of agricultural subsidies. Okay, you know that money's

1707
01:37:26,479 --> 01:37:29,559
Speaker 1: coming because it's pork barrel protected. You know that money's coming.

1708
01:37:29,800 --> 01:37:32,439
Speaker 1: You never have to market anything, and it why is

1709
01:37:32,479 --> 01:37:34,120
Speaker 1: it being that? It's like so weird to see an

1710
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:36,559
Speaker 1: industry where people have to are in the are in

1711
01:37:36,600 --> 01:37:41,320
Speaker 1: the open market economy, creating jobs, generating tax revenue. Right,

1712
01:37:41,560 --> 01:37:43,720
Speaker 1: It's just it's like upsetting because you live outside of

1713
01:37:43,760 --> 01:37:47,799
Speaker 1: a world where there's any accountability. You know, what butters

1714
01:37:47,840 --> 01:37:51,280
Speaker 1: your bread? Right, and if it went to a public vote,

1715
01:37:51,760 --> 01:37:56,880
Speaker 1: that bread wouldn't get buttered. It just wouldn't. So this

1716
01:37:56,920 --> 01:37:59,759
Speaker 1: whole conversation, I would read it. Cal was born in Montana.

1717
01:38:00,040 --> 01:38:03,320
Speaker 1: I'm opening to hear col bitch about stuff from Montana.

1718
01:38:03,360 --> 01:38:06,760
Speaker 1: I'll indulge it all day long. But this whole like,

1719
01:38:06,800 --> 01:38:08,559
Speaker 1: this whole thing is like a ton of guys like me.

1720
01:38:09,479 --> 01:38:12,559
Speaker 1: They moved out here and started finding hunting spots. And

1721
01:38:12,640 --> 01:38:16,240
Speaker 1: let me tell you, man, there was people hunting those spots. Dude,

1722
01:38:16,720 --> 01:38:19,760
Speaker 1: they were you and now you're in that spot. So

1723
01:38:19,920 --> 01:38:22,879
Speaker 1: like this conservation question, give me a break, dude. It's convenience.

1724
01:38:22,920 --> 01:38:27,240
Speaker 1: It's convenience. It's like you took someone's spot. Someone's in

1725
01:38:27,280 --> 01:38:28,800
Speaker 1: your spot now. And you know, what's a couple of things.

1726
01:38:28,840 --> 01:38:31,200
Speaker 1: If the person in your spot is a veteran, screw you.

1727
01:38:31,439 --> 01:38:33,280
Speaker 1: If the person in your spot's a person with their kids,

1728
01:38:33,360 --> 01:38:33,840
Speaker 1: screw you.

1729
01:38:34,320 --> 01:38:34,960
Speaker 5: What what? What?

1730
01:38:34,960 --> 01:38:37,520
Speaker 3: What makes it your spott?

1731
01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:40,439
Speaker 1: Yeah? Like go ask the Blackfeet about it and see

1732
01:38:40,479 --> 01:38:43,000
Speaker 1: what they think about who's in their spot. Give me

1733
01:38:43,040 --> 01:38:46,360
Speaker 1: a break, man. It's just it's just goes on and

1734
01:38:46,400 --> 01:38:47,320
Speaker 1: on and it's like just.

1735
01:38:51,800 --> 01:38:54,799
Speaker 8: Sh I think it's I think it's a jealousy thing really,

1736
01:38:55,040 --> 01:38:58,679
Speaker 8: because you you see somebody having success, or you see

1737
01:38:58,720 --> 01:39:03,520
Speaker 8: somebody doing something that you want to do, so automatically

1738
01:39:03,560 --> 01:39:08,599
Speaker 8: somehow they're they're cheating to get that, or they're doing

1739
01:39:08,640 --> 01:39:13,080
Speaker 8: something wrong to get that. So if that's oh, you know,

1740
01:39:13,160 --> 01:39:17,639
Speaker 8: stealing spots or poaching or getting whatever whatever.

1741
01:39:17,880 --> 01:39:21,040
Speaker 7: I mean, having different factions fighting with each other is

1742
01:39:21,120 --> 01:39:23,280
Speaker 7: never going to help hunting man. It's never.

1743
01:39:23,920 --> 01:39:24,120
Speaker 2: Never.

1744
01:39:24,280 --> 01:39:28,040
Speaker 10: I'm sure there's still like getting back to the wolf

1745
01:39:28,200 --> 01:39:29,639
Speaker 10: thing or the bear thing, like.

1746
01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:34,080
Speaker 7: There's hunters out there that tons don't like that ship.

1747
01:39:34,320 --> 01:39:36,679
Speaker 2: Yep, you know, there's a really.

1748
01:39:36,479 --> 01:39:38,920
Speaker 8: There's a really interesting statistic that goes along with that.

1749
01:39:39,840 --> 01:39:43,640
Speaker 8: Every time there is an argument where hunters are on

1750
01:39:43,720 --> 01:39:46,680
Speaker 8: both sides of the fence of an issue, whatever that is,

1751
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:54,320
Speaker 8: it almost always it's like in the ninety percentile aligns

1752
01:39:54,520 --> 01:39:57,040
Speaker 8: what it what it. When the smoke clears, it ends

1753
01:39:57,120 --> 01:40:00,840
Speaker 8: up aligning with anti hunting movement. So think about that

1754
01:40:00,880 --> 01:40:05,400
Speaker 8: if you're fighting your fellow hunter about something like Okay,

1755
01:40:05,439 --> 01:40:07,840
Speaker 8: this is a simple one trail camban in Arizona.

1756
01:40:08,800 --> 01:40:11,439
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't think you can say that that's anti

1757
01:40:11,560 --> 01:40:12,200
Speaker 1: hunting thing.

1758
01:40:12,520 --> 01:40:14,320
Speaker 8: But there was ani hunters on the side of that,

1759
01:40:14,760 --> 01:40:16,720
Speaker 8: So that's what helped tip the scales.

1760
01:40:16,720 --> 01:40:19,200
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think that's what.

1761
01:40:19,280 --> 01:40:22,439
Speaker 8: I'm not saying that anti hunters are driving that. I'm

1762
01:40:22,479 --> 01:40:25,599
Speaker 8: saying that if you're this way and this guy's this way.

1763
01:40:25,600 --> 01:40:26,639
Speaker 3: They're going to be on a side.

1764
01:40:26,720 --> 01:40:28,479
Speaker 8: They're going to go with the side that goes against

1765
01:40:28,479 --> 01:40:34,040
Speaker 8: that is true, and it's almost always it never works

1766
01:40:34,080 --> 01:40:37,000
Speaker 8: out for hunting. Now, could there can there you know,

1767
01:40:37,240 --> 01:40:39,599
Speaker 8: could we have found a better solution than just hey,

1768
01:40:39,640 --> 01:40:42,160
Speaker 8: let's get rid of I mean, this is just an

1769
01:40:42,240 --> 01:40:46,639
Speaker 8: arbitrary example. But could we have found a better solution.

1770
01:40:46,720 --> 01:40:49,479
Speaker 8: Could hunters have gotten together and said, Okay, well I

1771
01:40:49,479 --> 01:40:50,960
Speaker 8: agree with you, I don't you know, I don't like

1772
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:53,760
Speaker 8: this happening, or I don't want guys coming in and

1773
01:40:53,800 --> 01:40:56,040
Speaker 8: checking their trail cameras while I'm sitting on a water hole.

1774
01:40:55,880 --> 01:40:57,000
Speaker 3: Because that's what started it.

1775
01:40:59,000 --> 01:41:01,120
Speaker 6: Diverse coalition, right or what wind fights?

1776
01:41:01,280 --> 01:41:01,439
Speaker 7: Right?

1777
01:41:01,479 --> 01:41:03,320
Speaker 6: So like when you're like, well the anti hunters jumped

1778
01:41:03,320 --> 01:41:06,880
Speaker 6: in on this, they're able to skew things at the

1779
01:41:07,000 --> 01:41:09,080
Speaker 6: end because they're like, okay, we've heard from this group,

1780
01:41:10,160 --> 01:41:12,800
Speaker 6: oh and then here's this other group, and so yeah,

1781
01:41:12,840 --> 01:41:15,240
Speaker 6: I can see how that would push a thing. But

1782
01:41:15,280 --> 01:41:19,760
Speaker 6: that comes down to why everybody who does anything that

1783
01:41:19,800 --> 01:41:23,880
Speaker 6: you like to do, you need to figure out educate

1784
01:41:23,920 --> 01:41:26,920
Speaker 6: yourself on how to be a better advocate for those

1785
01:41:26,960 --> 01:41:29,760
Speaker 6: things and be willing to be involved, right. I mean,

1786
01:41:29,800 --> 01:41:34,320
Speaker 6: we're just at a point in time where if you're

1787
01:41:34,360 --> 01:41:37,400
Speaker 6: not going to weigh in on the decision making processes,

1788
01:41:38,040 --> 01:41:42,760
Speaker 6: these burdens some regulatory processes where thank god we live

1789
01:41:42,760 --> 01:41:46,880
Speaker 6: in a place where public comment periods are built into

1790
01:41:46,920 --> 01:41:50,880
Speaker 6: the process, somebody else is going to go in there

1791
01:41:50,880 --> 01:41:55,599
Speaker 6: and do it for you, right. And you know, we

1792
01:41:55,720 --> 01:42:00,599
Speaker 6: really do have a broad, diverse coalition amongst hunters. But

1793
01:42:00,760 --> 01:42:03,960
Speaker 6: you have to say, hey, you know I'm in the

1794
01:42:05,280 --> 01:42:08,720
Speaker 6: you know, Plumber's Labor Union. This is where I live,

1795
01:42:08,840 --> 01:42:11,519
Speaker 6: this is my family, this is how much money I spend,

1796
01:42:11,840 --> 01:42:15,600
Speaker 6: and we do it hunting right, And people need to

1797
01:42:15,640 --> 01:42:17,840
Speaker 6: go through and we need to make sure that we're

1798
01:42:17,880 --> 01:42:22,320
Speaker 6: checking all those boxes when we're saying, hey, this access issue.

1799
01:42:22,880 --> 01:42:28,799
Speaker 6: And I think access to wildlife is a very smart

1800
01:42:28,840 --> 01:42:31,439
Speaker 6: way of framing this Colorado issue.

1801
01:42:31,520 --> 01:42:31,720
Speaker 5: Right.

1802
01:42:32,280 --> 01:42:35,880
Speaker 6: It's like, there is no reasonable science that says we

1803
01:42:35,920 --> 01:42:39,880
Speaker 6: shouldn't be allowed to take advantage of this opportunity. Should

1804
01:42:39,920 --> 01:42:43,240
Speaker 6: you want to take advantage of the opportunity to just

1805
01:42:43,320 --> 01:42:50,320
Speaker 6: pursue lions. But somebody's like, oh, well, there's not a

1806
01:42:50,320 --> 01:42:53,240
Speaker 6: lot of them, not a lot of hunters doing that,

1807
01:42:53,800 --> 01:42:56,719
Speaker 6: So let's just shut off that little bit of access

1808
01:42:56,840 --> 01:43:03,120
Speaker 6: to that opportunity, right, and so well you need Unfortunately,

1809
01:43:03,160 --> 01:43:05,600
Speaker 6: like the way a lot of politicians work is like,

1810
01:43:05,680 --> 01:43:09,880
Speaker 6: well we've already heard from the hunters, right, but if

1811
01:43:09,880 --> 01:43:12,200
Speaker 6: you can go in and say listen, yeah, I do

1812
01:43:12,280 --> 01:43:15,200
Speaker 6: some hunting, but really I'm a fly fisherman. This is

1813
01:43:15,200 --> 01:43:18,920
Speaker 6: why this issue that doesn't seem to be connected matters

1814
01:43:18,920 --> 01:43:23,960
Speaker 6: to me. Or you know, dirt bikes ATVs. All the

1815
01:43:24,040 --> 01:43:27,360
Speaker 6: outdoor pursuits. Right, It's like, well, you know, the cat

1816
01:43:27,439 --> 01:43:32,200
Speaker 6: hunting thing matters to me because there's no reason to

1817
01:43:32,280 --> 01:43:34,400
Speaker 6: stop this group of people from doing what they're doing.

1818
01:43:35,280 --> 01:43:38,120
Speaker 6: You're just listening to some other group that says it shouldn't.

1819
01:43:37,720 --> 01:43:40,960
Speaker 3: Exist and it doesn't stop there.

1820
01:43:41,040 --> 01:43:44,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, people cycles, I'll getting rid of that too.

1821
01:43:44,520 --> 01:43:45,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1822
01:43:45,040 --> 01:43:46,920
Speaker 8: Are we just looking at the issue for the issue

1823
01:43:46,960 --> 01:43:50,519
Speaker 8: and not looking at the.

1824
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:51,559
Speaker 2: You know, the side effects that happened to it.

1825
01:43:51,800 --> 01:43:57,160
Speaker 6: Right, And like Steve says, people's memories are very short, right, it's.

1826
01:43:56,960 --> 01:43:59,880
Speaker 1: Like, oh, yeah, you know there's the thing I want

1827
01:43:59,920 --> 01:44:02,320
Speaker 1: to push back on a little bit. And we discussed

1828
01:44:02,320 --> 01:44:06,920
Speaker 1: this in the past, is uh, there are gonna become

1829
01:44:07,040 --> 01:44:12,759
Speaker 1: times on regulatory issues where the general will of hunters

1830
01:44:14,120 --> 01:44:17,960
Speaker 1: is going to align with anti hunters? Oh sure, I

1831
01:44:17,960 --> 01:44:19,800
Speaker 1: mean you take a look at this. This is the

1832
01:44:19,800 --> 01:44:21,080
Speaker 1: thing I always like to bring up because it was

1833
01:44:21,080 --> 01:44:23,280
Speaker 1: so clean, and it was so clean. An instant was

1834
01:44:23,320 --> 01:44:29,639
Speaker 1: when the idea of using drones for hunting came in. Okay, right,

1835
01:44:29,680 --> 01:44:33,560
Speaker 1: when drones were hitting and becoming this thing just widely available, inexpensive.

1836
01:44:34,640 --> 01:44:39,519
Speaker 1: I think one year you had thirteen states come out,

1837
01:44:39,520 --> 01:44:43,840
Speaker 1: thirteen Western states come out with drone bands, including Alaska. Right,

1838
01:44:45,120 --> 01:44:48,080
Speaker 1: had you gone to the anti hunting world and said,

1839
01:44:48,080 --> 01:44:49,400
Speaker 1: should you be able to use a drone for hunting?

1840
01:44:49,439 --> 01:44:51,759
Speaker 1: What do you think they're gonna say no? Okay, well

1841
01:44:52,280 --> 01:44:55,680
Speaker 1: sort of, they'll you know, Alaska's Game commission. Sure, So

1842
01:44:56,000 --> 01:44:58,000
Speaker 1: I don't think like in some of these cases a

1843
01:44:58,040 --> 01:45:00,559
Speaker 1: little more complicated than to say like and then they

1844
01:45:00,600 --> 01:45:05,880
Speaker 1: side with the ani hunters because it's just right. It's

1845
01:45:06,040 --> 01:45:08,080
Speaker 1: it's like you're gonna wind up. I don't even want

1846
01:45:08,080 --> 01:45:11,080
Speaker 1: to use the term strange bedfellows, but you're coming out

1847
01:45:11,160 --> 01:45:15,240
Speaker 1: of question from opposite directions, but you're landing on that

1848
01:45:15,320 --> 01:45:19,679
Speaker 1: question the exact same way. You know, like you can't Yeah,

1849
01:45:19,880 --> 01:45:23,200
Speaker 1: it's it's it's impossible. I don't want to call it

1850
01:45:23,240 --> 01:45:27,760
Speaker 1: an unfortunate accident, but just sometimes they're your sentiment, A

1851
01:45:27,840 --> 01:45:29,880
Speaker 1: hunter's sentiment is going to align that way.

1852
01:45:30,320 --> 01:45:32,080
Speaker 8: Well, it's the same saying goes with the you know, the

1853
01:45:32,080 --> 01:45:37,080
Speaker 8: wyoming wolf thing, but it's do you want them driving

1854
01:45:37,120 --> 01:45:38,960
Speaker 8: the policy or do you want the policy to come

1855
01:45:38,960 --> 01:45:39,559
Speaker 8: from us?

1856
01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:43,320
Speaker 1: Well, in this case, in the drone case, the policy

1857
01:45:43,400 --> 01:45:47,760
Speaker 1: very much came from hunters, right. You know, as we

1858
01:45:48,040 --> 01:45:51,000
Speaker 1: just heard from some people involved in the commission in

1859
01:45:51,120 --> 01:45:54,759
Speaker 1: Arizona on the governor tag issue, like that policy change

1860
01:45:54,800 --> 01:46:00,800
Speaker 1: is coming from people who have untarnished reputations as pro hunters. Right.

1861
01:46:00,920 --> 01:46:05,360
Speaker 1: It's just some things would be that if your knee

1862
01:46:05,479 --> 01:46:09,680
Speaker 1: jerk anti anything having to do with hunting, you're going

1863
01:46:09,760 --> 01:46:14,760
Speaker 1: to align oftentimes with hunting restrictions. If a state game

1864
01:46:14,800 --> 01:46:18,240
Speaker 1: agency says, do we want to allow nighttime hunting of

1865
01:46:18,240 --> 01:46:24,200
Speaker 1: elk with thermals? Right, hunters are going to say what, no?

1866
01:46:24,200 --> 01:46:24,280
Speaker 3: No?

1867
01:46:24,600 --> 01:46:26,080
Speaker 1: And what are anti hunters is going to say? No?

1868
01:46:26,160 --> 01:46:26,720
Speaker 3: Of course not?

1869
01:46:26,880 --> 01:46:29,840
Speaker 2: So yeah, we we just what something was it last

1870
01:46:29,880 --> 01:46:31,960
Speaker 2: year with the horses? We actually so.

1871
01:46:31,920 --> 01:46:36,400
Speaker 3: I was gonna say, yeah, so we have aligned, you know,

1872
01:46:36,520 --> 01:46:39,439
Speaker 3: and I with the Center for Biological Diversity, a couple

1873
01:46:39,479 --> 01:46:42,839
Speaker 3: of times, and it's on it's on wild horses.

1874
01:46:43,360 --> 01:46:46,439
Speaker 6: I mean, this is not uncommon, right, I mean, yeah,

1875
01:46:46,520 --> 01:46:48,040
Speaker 6: go ahead, well, yeah.

1876
01:46:47,840 --> 01:46:53,720
Speaker 3: It's it's uncommon in our space. But we basically got

1877
01:46:53,760 --> 01:46:56,800
Speaker 3: pictures and documentation from Robin Silver, who I think is

1878
01:46:57,040 --> 01:47:02,679
Speaker 3: the co founder of CBD. I believe Apache Sickreise National Forest,

1879
01:47:02,720 --> 01:47:05,160
Speaker 3: I think is what it was. They're calling them faral

1880
01:47:05,200 --> 01:47:10,040
Speaker 3: horses because yeah, the evidence points to there was a wildfire,

1881
01:47:10,120 --> 01:47:15,840
Speaker 3: it burnt down fences of native tribes, their horses got out.

1882
01:47:16,080 --> 01:47:20,880
Speaker 3: Now they're living here, so they're not wild horses.

1883
01:47:20,920 --> 01:47:23,559
Speaker 1: I agree with that. Yeah, dude, I feel like we

1884
01:47:23,600 --> 01:47:25,920
Speaker 1: need you got to provide a little background for people.

1885
01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:30,040
Speaker 6: Well, there was a wild horse untarnished by the hands

1886
01:47:30,080 --> 01:47:31,480
Speaker 6: of man and manipulation.

1887
01:47:32,320 --> 01:47:33,320
Speaker 1: You're doing the background right now?

1888
01:47:33,400 --> 01:47:33,559
Speaker 9: Yeah?

1889
01:47:33,560 --> 01:47:34,599
Speaker 1: Oh thank you? Yeah?

1890
01:47:34,640 --> 01:47:41,400
Speaker 7: How far back you going place to see you? Okay?

1891
01:47:42,040 --> 01:47:45,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, walk us through a quick chronology because these are confusing.

1892
01:47:46,320 --> 01:47:52,960
Speaker 6: So that horse died off several theories as to how,

1893
01:47:54,040 --> 01:47:56,160
Speaker 6: but they very well could have been hunted and killed

1894
01:47:56,160 --> 01:48:04,080
Speaker 6: by early humans on this continent. By leap forward in time,

1895
01:48:05,160 --> 01:48:10,719
Speaker 6: the Spanish arrive with horses at a couple of different

1896
01:48:10,760 --> 01:48:12,719
Speaker 6: geographic locations.

1897
01:48:12,760 --> 01:48:14,839
Speaker 1: But those.

1898
01:48:16,160 --> 01:48:23,639
Speaker 6: Indigenous people to North America, southern North America start stealing

1899
01:48:23,680 --> 01:48:29,719
Speaker 6: those mainly for food, and uh, you know, the horses

1900
01:48:29,880 --> 01:48:33,800
Speaker 6: run away. Even in modern times, horses run away. So

1901
01:48:35,520 --> 01:48:40,040
Speaker 6: this allowed for like another food option out there on

1902
01:48:40,080 --> 01:48:44,200
Speaker 6: the on the prairie because they're out there making more horses.

1903
01:48:45,240 --> 01:48:47,400
Speaker 6: But I mean that's that's where like, that's how a

1904
01:48:47,479 --> 01:48:51,400
Speaker 6: feral population begins. Now we're just like a long road

1905
01:48:51,479 --> 01:48:52,000
Speaker 6: down the way.

1906
01:48:52,040 --> 01:48:54,559
Speaker 10: So I think what you're getting at is, at this point,

1907
01:48:54,920 --> 01:48:57,559
Speaker 10: all wild horses are faral horses.

1908
01:48:57,840 --> 01:49:02,400
Speaker 1: There's but there's actually if you went to but there

1909
01:49:02,479 --> 01:49:05,400
Speaker 1: was a bifurcation at a point where they looked at

1910
01:49:05,400 --> 01:49:12,120
Speaker 1: these sort of ancestral Spanish horses they dubbed we Americans whatever,

1911
01:49:12,240 --> 01:49:16,160
Speaker 1: dubbed those wild horses. But if cow's horse ran away,

1912
01:49:17,320 --> 01:49:22,040
Speaker 1: that's a feral horse. Those have different governing rules. But

1913
01:49:22,160 --> 01:49:26,840
Speaker 1: the world has gotten murky in that among those ancestral

1914
01:49:26,880 --> 01:49:30,719
Speaker 1: wild horses. You gotta all kind of runaway feral horses, right,

1915
01:49:30,840 --> 01:49:32,960
Speaker 1: And so they do it by not what is the

1916
01:49:33,040 --> 01:49:35,160
Speaker 1: animal's history? Where is the animal standing?

1917
01:49:35,240 --> 01:49:39,280
Speaker 8: Yeah, geography was that nineteen seventy something, they like made

1918
01:49:39,320 --> 01:49:42,360
Speaker 8: boundaries and any horses that were in this I think

1919
01:49:42,360 --> 01:49:44,720
Speaker 8: it's in the seventies something like that. Any horses in

1920
01:49:44,760 --> 01:49:47,720
Speaker 8: this area is a wild horse. Anything outside of that

1921
01:49:47,840 --> 01:49:48,960
Speaker 8: is a federal federal horse.

1922
01:49:49,400 --> 01:49:53,799
Speaker 6: Where's a wild horse island here in Montana where they're.

1923
01:49:55,200 --> 01:49:55,559
Speaker 7: Crazy.

1924
01:49:55,680 --> 01:49:57,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, if you could take you could take your

1925
01:49:57,920 --> 01:49:59,960
Speaker 1: You could take a horse you've owned for twenty years,

1926
01:50:00,720 --> 01:50:02,479
Speaker 1: put it on the right patch of ground, and that

1927
01:50:02,560 --> 01:50:03,719
Speaker 1: horse becomes a wild horse.

1928
01:50:03,800 --> 01:50:06,880
Speaker 2: Sure they go farrow very quickly, or they go wild.

1929
01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:07,559
Speaker 1: No, I mean, I'm sorry.

1930
01:50:07,680 --> 01:50:11,080
Speaker 8: Legally, yes, you're right.

1931
01:50:11,280 --> 01:50:13,839
Speaker 6: You just got to get rid of any any markings.

1932
01:50:14,240 --> 01:50:16,640
Speaker 6: Make sure the brand inspector isn't isn't around you.

1933
01:50:17,000 --> 01:50:18,560
Speaker 1: I'm taking something. That's why we need to have the

1934
01:50:18,640 --> 01:50:21,599
Speaker 1: right guest. I'm taking something that's so complicated and trying

1935
01:50:21,640 --> 01:50:23,559
Speaker 1: to compress it. And I'm not a subject matter expert.

1936
01:50:23,600 --> 01:50:26,439
Speaker 1: But anyhow, go ahead. You found yourself on the same side.

1937
01:50:26,479 --> 01:50:30,240
Speaker 3: Well, they were, Yeah, they were legally classified as as

1938
01:50:30,720 --> 01:50:34,280
Speaker 3: as a feral horses, not not wild. Otherwise I don't

1939
01:50:34,280 --> 01:50:38,439
Speaker 3: think anything could have been done. But uh, for that issue,

1940
01:50:38,439 --> 01:50:42,280
Speaker 3: we were the squeakiest wheel. Which whenever this had come

1941
01:50:42,320 --> 01:50:43,400
Speaker 3: up before.

1942
01:50:43,760 --> 01:50:48,559
Speaker 10: The what was the issue, like get rid of them.

1943
01:50:49,560 --> 01:50:55,439
Speaker 3: To remove them from. Yeah, like the landscape there was

1944
01:50:55,560 --> 01:50:59,320
Speaker 3: just getting decimated. It was just dirt left, no no water.

1945
01:50:59,760 --> 01:51:02,000
Speaker 8: With the water situation was the worst thing. They would

1946
01:51:02,000 --> 01:51:07,200
Speaker 8: like physically see tanks that elk would normally drink at horse,

1947
01:51:07,560 --> 01:51:09,160
Speaker 8: you know, whole brute horses come in.

1948
01:51:09,080 --> 01:51:10,960
Speaker 3: And and there was endanger.

1949
01:51:11,439 --> 01:51:13,760
Speaker 2: She's oh, yeah, there was an dangerous feture. That's what.

1950
01:51:13,800 --> 01:51:16,439
Speaker 3: Else Where the CBD comes in a lot, they're all

1951
01:51:16,479 --> 01:51:17,559
Speaker 3: about habitat or something.

1952
01:51:17,920 --> 01:51:21,800
Speaker 6: I believe my girlfriends a horse, grew up as a

1953
01:51:21,800 --> 01:51:24,880
Speaker 6: horse person. She gets really annoyed with me when we're

1954
01:51:24,960 --> 01:51:28,000
Speaker 6: driving through parts of Montana and I point to shitty

1955
01:51:28,040 --> 01:51:31,200
Speaker 6: pastures and I'm like, oh, that's a horse property, right.

1956
01:51:31,760 --> 01:51:32,400
Speaker 3: It's the truth.

1957
01:51:32,880 --> 01:51:38,840
Speaker 1: So in this case, in the desert southwest areas of Nevada, California, Arizona,

1958
01:51:38,920 --> 01:51:46,800
Speaker 1: New Mexico, you have a impost wild animal out competing

1959
01:51:47,160 --> 01:51:52,439
Speaker 1: true native wildlife for grass and water. And that's the

1960
01:51:52,520 --> 01:51:53,960
Speaker 1: that's the that's the like.

1961
01:51:53,880 --> 01:51:56,000
Speaker 3: The crux of the issue. And I talked to him

1962
01:51:56,040 --> 01:51:57,479
Speaker 3: two days ago, and this might be the guy I

1963
01:51:57,560 --> 01:51:58,960
Speaker 3: refer to you if you want to talk to him,

1964
01:51:59,000 --> 01:52:02,680
Speaker 3: but he said they've removed five hundred horses now and

1965
01:52:02,720 --> 01:52:06,400
Speaker 3: they are going to there's farms, there's I don't know

1966
01:52:06,439 --> 01:52:07,000
Speaker 3: what they're called.

1967
01:52:08,200 --> 01:52:08,680
Speaker 2: Some of them.

1968
01:52:08,760 --> 01:52:10,599
Speaker 8: Yeah, some of them are get relocated. But I think

1969
01:52:10,640 --> 01:52:11,920
Speaker 8: some of them are getting.

1970
01:52:11,479 --> 01:52:12,439
Speaker 3: People buy them people.

1971
01:52:12,640 --> 01:52:13,599
Speaker 1: No, they can't.

1972
01:52:13,760 --> 01:52:15,280
Speaker 8: I thought there were some that they had they were

1973
01:52:15,320 --> 01:52:16,559
Speaker 8: they approved the lethal takes.

1974
01:52:16,600 --> 01:52:18,599
Speaker 1: Oh maybe they were not true wild horses.

1975
01:52:18,640 --> 01:52:22,640
Speaker 6: Then they were diseased or cripp the.

1976
01:52:22,760 --> 01:52:27,679
Speaker 3: Feral because of the whenever that wildfire happened. They were

1977
01:52:27,760 --> 01:52:31,320
Speaker 3: classified as these are feral. These escaped out of the

1978
01:52:32,200 --> 01:52:34,800
Speaker 3: out of the indigenous, you know, out of the reservation.

1979
01:52:35,280 --> 01:52:36,320
Speaker 1: So they were.

1980
01:52:38,720 --> 01:52:43,520
Speaker 3: That's what it was. Yeah, So there's an example of alignment.

1981
01:52:44,680 --> 01:52:48,960
Speaker 1: Like the Center for Biological Diversity wanted them removed wildlife

1982
01:52:49,200 --> 01:52:56,160
Speaker 1: like more hook and Bullet wildlife activists wanted them removed.

1983
01:52:55,800 --> 01:52:58,280
Speaker 3: Back to the CBD. We are fighting them now on

1984
01:52:58,360 --> 01:53:01,479
Speaker 3: this uh Catalina Island. And you know about the mule

1985
01:53:01,520 --> 01:53:02,360
Speaker 3: deer extermination.

1986
01:53:02,840 --> 01:53:05,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've covered that exhaustively man.

1987
01:53:05,560 --> 01:53:09,519
Speaker 3: So uh but they backed up on it. No, No,

1988
01:53:09,520 --> 01:53:11,639
Speaker 3: no aerial gunning. That's not going to happen, at least

1989
01:53:11,720 --> 01:53:17,000
Speaker 3: not this year. Two days ago, three days ago, the

1990
01:53:17,080 --> 01:53:21,000
Speaker 3: Commission approved p l M tags on Catalin Island to

1991
01:53:21,080 --> 01:53:24,000
Speaker 3: increase hunting opportunity on the island. That's what we asked for.

1992
01:53:26,040 --> 01:53:30,599
Speaker 3: There's but the Humane Society is on our side. There's others.

1993
01:53:30,640 --> 01:53:33,719
Speaker 3: It's funny. So yeah, so I was just on Catialen

1994
01:53:33,800 --> 01:53:36,360
Speaker 3: Island and.

1995
01:53:35,320 --> 01:53:36,519
Speaker 1: You guys been on the phone together.

1996
01:53:36,720 --> 01:53:37,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it's funny.

1997
01:53:37,800 --> 01:53:38,120
Speaker 1: We did.

1998
01:53:38,160 --> 01:53:40,240
Speaker 3: We did some podcasts together. I'm like, well, this is

1999
01:53:40,360 --> 01:53:43,000
Speaker 3: this is interesting. I'm here with the Humane Society and

2000
01:53:43,000 --> 01:53:44,840
Speaker 3: and this lady said, hey, I'm all for hunting, I'm

2001
01:53:44,840 --> 01:53:45,599
Speaker 3: all for management.

2002
01:53:47,600 --> 01:53:48,880
Speaker 2: We were very surprised about that.

2003
01:53:49,080 --> 01:53:51,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, just not eradication. I'm like, I'm right there with you.

2004
01:53:53,040 --> 01:53:56,520
Speaker 1: So that's a not US standpoint.

2005
01:53:56,600 --> 01:53:56,640
Speaker 9: No.

2006
01:53:56,880 --> 01:53:59,280
Speaker 7: Never, she still worked for them right.

2007
01:54:02,000 --> 01:54:04,200
Speaker 1: To get you know, on the billboard.

2008
01:54:04,720 --> 01:54:07,640
Speaker 3: So there is a difference. So hs US is is

2009
01:54:07,720 --> 01:54:10,559
Speaker 3: kind of like the the national brand, right.

2010
01:54:10,439 --> 01:54:13,240
Speaker 1: And that's the animal rights Oh yeah that this causes

2011
01:54:13,360 --> 01:54:14,240
Speaker 1: huge confusion.

2012
01:54:14,479 --> 01:54:14,719
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2013
01:54:14,920 --> 01:54:18,080
Speaker 1: So hs US and your local Humane Society are not

2014
01:54:18,320 --> 01:54:19,120
Speaker 1: the same thing.

2015
01:54:19,080 --> 01:54:20,439
Speaker 3: Very different, very different.

2016
01:54:20,479 --> 01:54:22,400
Speaker 1: So this was a local maybe a low this is

2017
01:54:22,479 --> 01:54:23,200
Speaker 1: this is local.

2018
01:54:23,560 --> 01:54:26,920
Speaker 3: However, the the Humane I believe hs US has come

2019
01:54:26,960 --> 01:54:31,000
Speaker 3: out in opposition of this because they're just against yeah anything.

2020
01:54:30,880 --> 01:54:34,440
Speaker 1: Right, they don't Yeah, they don't entangle themselves into things

2021
01:54:34,480 --> 01:54:38,280
Speaker 1: from a habitat perspective. They and they are focused on

2022
01:54:38,320 --> 01:54:43,280
Speaker 1: like individual they're focused on welfare of individual animals.

2023
01:54:44,000 --> 01:54:44,240
Speaker 3: You know.

2024
01:54:45,360 --> 01:54:48,240
Speaker 1: I've recently looked at some interesting documentation out of California

2025
01:54:48,240 --> 01:54:51,880
Speaker 1: with hs US where hs US had petitioned the state

2026
01:54:51,960 --> 01:54:56,839
Speaker 1: to end California's bear harvest or sorry to to petition

2027
01:54:56,920 --> 01:55:00,720
Speaker 1: the state to end California's bear hunt over concerns that

2028
01:55:01,200 --> 01:55:06,560
Speaker 1: that populations were plummeting, Which were which was the opposite

2029
01:55:06,600 --> 01:55:09,240
Speaker 1: of truth? And then later one of them clarified someone

2030
01:55:09,720 --> 01:55:11,360
Speaker 1: I think it was on a podcast. Someone sent me

2031
01:55:11,360 --> 01:55:16,520
Speaker 1: a transcript. Someone pressed them, if you're arguing to close

2032
01:55:16,560 --> 01:55:19,240
Speaker 1: the bar season based on a population number that you

2033
01:55:19,320 --> 01:55:22,960
Speaker 1: understand to be true, what is the population number where

2034
01:55:22,960 --> 01:55:26,480
Speaker 1: you would not oppose the bear harvest? And she acknowledged

2035
01:55:26,560 --> 01:55:27,560
Speaker 1: there is no number.

2036
01:55:28,280 --> 01:55:30,280
Speaker 3: So that was that was actually we actually have our

2037
01:55:30,360 --> 01:55:33,840
Speaker 3: video that was actually in a commission meeting. That was

2038
01:55:33,880 --> 01:55:41,360
Speaker 3: Commissioner Murray pressed Wendy keif Over, she's the Humane Society

2039
01:55:41,680 --> 01:55:45,120
Speaker 3: HSUS representative. She asked her that in a commission meeting,

2040
01:55:45,600 --> 01:55:48,240
Speaker 3: what's the number you're happy with? You know, because they

2041
01:55:48,720 --> 01:55:50,560
Speaker 3: they didn't know at the time when they when they

2042
01:55:50,600 --> 01:55:52,760
Speaker 3: had this petition and we had we had this big meeting.

2043
01:55:52,800 --> 01:55:54,839
Speaker 3: We had one hundred and thirty hunters there. I believe

2044
01:55:55,800 --> 01:55:59,120
Speaker 3: the Commission was incredible. Gave us the opportunity to talk about,

2045
01:56:00,120 --> 01:56:03,280
Speaker 3: you know, what we do with with bear fat, with

2046
01:56:03,360 --> 01:56:06,840
Speaker 3: bear meat, like like, really, the California Commissions is giving

2047
01:56:06,920 --> 01:56:10,560
Speaker 3: us this incredible opportunity to share our stories, and Humane

2048
01:56:10,600 --> 01:56:13,920
Speaker 3: Society was just going nuts like disrupting the meetings. You

2049
01:56:13,960 --> 01:56:15,960
Speaker 3: guys can't do this, don't let them talk about that.

2050
01:56:16,040 --> 01:56:18,960
Speaker 3: And they're like, wait, it's your petition. You made these claims.

2051
01:56:18,960 --> 01:56:22,360
Speaker 3: You made these claims that people don't eat bear, that

2052
01:56:22,440 --> 01:56:23,960
Speaker 3: you know they do this and that, and there's only

2053
01:56:24,000 --> 01:56:27,120
Speaker 3: thirteen thousand bear in California. Well, we just proved you wrong.

2054
01:56:28,000 --> 01:56:31,360
Speaker 3: And one of our scientists at that time nobody knew

2055
01:56:31,400 --> 01:56:34,640
Speaker 3: this was coming, stood up, gave a presentation and said, hey,

2056
01:56:34,680 --> 01:56:38,840
Speaker 3: we're working on a bear management plan, which is now

2057
01:56:39,000 --> 01:56:41,760
Speaker 3: to present they have one. Yeah, the comment period justid

2058
01:56:42,000 --> 01:56:46,920
Speaker 3: he goes, I think we're looking at sixty seventy thousand

2059
01:56:46,960 --> 01:56:51,440
Speaker 3: bear and it just made was like, what you know,

2060
01:56:51,840 --> 01:56:54,000
Speaker 3: did anybody know about this? Because we look like.

2061
01:56:54,600 --> 01:56:57,520
Speaker 1: They were pushing twelve five. Yeah, and then the new

2062
01:56:57,560 --> 01:57:00,000
Speaker 1: thing is like the most, like the sort of best.

2063
01:57:00,200 --> 01:57:03,400
Speaker 1: It's a range of fifty something to eighty something. So

2064
01:57:03,520 --> 01:57:06,120
Speaker 1: people are probably the probably sixty five thousand bears.

2065
01:57:07,120 --> 01:57:10,200
Speaker 6: But no hunter stood up and said, now you imagine

2066
01:57:10,320 --> 01:57:13,640
Speaker 6: sixty seventy thousand hungry bears on the edge of your

2067
01:57:13,720 --> 01:57:16,200
Speaker 6: child's playground, right, Okay.

2068
01:57:16,520 --> 01:57:20,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the other thing you got to resist they made.

2069
01:57:20,200 --> 01:57:23,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, they find a lot of hunters tiptoeing into this

2070
01:57:24,920 --> 01:57:31,800
Speaker 1: dangerous territory of telling everybody how dangerous wildlife, right, and

2071
01:57:31,840 --> 01:57:35,760
Speaker 1: that they're doing you a great service because wildlife is

2072
01:57:35,840 --> 01:57:42,160
Speaker 1: so dangerous. And that's another real that's a yeah, that's

2073
01:57:42,280 --> 01:57:44,400
Speaker 1: that is a dangerous place to get.

2074
01:57:44,440 --> 01:57:48,600
Speaker 8: We never want to vilify the lion or the bear whatever.

2075
01:57:48,640 --> 01:57:50,320
Speaker 8: They're just going to do what they do the wolf.

2076
01:57:50,920 --> 01:57:54,400
Speaker 2: But it's no, we're full support.

2077
01:57:54,400 --> 01:57:56,760
Speaker 3: We love wolves on the landscape, grizzly bear. They deserve

2078
01:57:56,840 --> 01:57:59,200
Speaker 3: to be there, but they do need to be managed,

2079
01:57:59,360 --> 01:58:02,000
Speaker 3: and I don't know, don't we don't really believe in

2080
01:58:02,280 --> 01:58:06,320
Speaker 3: reintroduction or introduction, so sticky, it's.

2081
01:58:06,360 --> 01:58:10,000
Speaker 1: Well, cats out of the bag. Yeah, sorry, you're not

2082
01:58:10,040 --> 01:58:13,920
Speaker 1: going to put it back, I should have no. No,

2083
01:58:13,960 --> 01:58:15,920
Speaker 1: I'm just saying this, like we had a conversation a

2084
01:58:15,920 --> 01:58:18,480
Speaker 1: long time ago about with the We had a conversation

2085
01:58:18,600 --> 01:58:21,440
Speaker 1: on the show with the woman that ran the that

2086
01:58:21,440 --> 01:58:26,960
Speaker 1: that ran the wolf program during the wolf reintroduction in

2087
01:58:27,000 --> 01:58:34,920
Speaker 1: the mid nineties in Yellowstone. She looking back, looking back,

2088
01:58:35,000 --> 01:58:38,480
Speaker 1: felt that it was unnecessary even now says it was

2089
01:58:38,600 --> 01:58:40,520
Speaker 1: unnecessary at the time because we would have landed in

2090
01:58:40,560 --> 01:58:42,840
Speaker 1: the same place coming down. We would have landed in

2091
01:58:42,840 --> 01:58:46,000
Speaker 1: the same position with natural movement of animals coming in,

2092
01:58:46,080 --> 01:58:49,280
Speaker 1: and they were seeing it coming in. While the Colorado

2093
01:58:49,760 --> 01:58:53,360
Speaker 1: reintroduction bill was progressing, wolves were showing up from Wyoming.

2094
01:58:53,480 --> 01:58:53,600
Speaker 9: Right.

2095
01:58:54,440 --> 01:59:00,160
Speaker 1: So, whether or not in twenty years, thirty years, however

2096
01:59:00,240 --> 01:59:01,560
Speaker 1: the hell it is, I think you're gonna be stuck

2097
01:59:01,600 --> 01:59:03,200
Speaker 1: with the same set of converce You're gonna be stuck

2098
01:59:03,440 --> 01:59:05,240
Speaker 1: whether or not those things that happened, you probably stuck

2099
01:59:05,280 --> 01:59:12,520
Speaker 1: around the same set of conversations around you are gonna

2100
01:59:13,280 --> 01:59:15,760
Speaker 1: I think this is the reality. You are gonna have

2101
01:59:15,840 --> 01:59:19,200
Speaker 1: large predators on the landscape. You're gonna have large predators

2102
01:59:19,320 --> 01:59:21,720
Speaker 1: on more of the landscape, and there's gonna become a

2103
01:59:21,800 --> 01:59:29,720
Speaker 1: question of do we do management practices to uh do

2104
01:59:29,800 --> 01:59:34,240
Speaker 1: we tape steps for management practices to reduce conflict and

2105
01:59:34,280 --> 01:59:41,280
Speaker 1: to stay with deer and elk herds that we want

2106
01:59:41,360 --> 01:59:43,520
Speaker 1: to see, that we hunters want to see, and that's

2107
01:59:43,560 --> 01:59:46,400
Speaker 1: gonna be Like it's gonna be somewhere between those two things.

2108
01:59:46,400 --> 01:59:49,560
Speaker 1: They're not gonna be gone, right, They're not gonna be gone.

2109
01:59:50,360 --> 01:59:51,560
Speaker 1: We're not gonna go back.

2110
01:59:51,360 --> 01:59:53,880
Speaker 8: In time and not re eradicate them or whatever.

2111
01:59:53,920 --> 01:59:56,160
Speaker 1: It's not gonna happen. It can't happen. There's all kinds

2112
01:59:56,200 --> 01:59:58,600
Speaker 1: of I mean, we have this whole legal framework that

2113
01:59:58,760 --> 01:59:59,960
Speaker 1: they can't allow that to happen.

2114
02:00:00,120 --> 02:00:03,720
Speaker 6: But this big pop you know what the prey population

2115
02:00:04,360 --> 02:00:08,320
Speaker 6: objectives are going to be. I think you're correct, is

2116
02:00:08,480 --> 02:00:11,160
Speaker 6: like going to be a big conversation because like here

2117
02:00:11,200 --> 02:00:14,920
Speaker 6: in the state of Montana, right we're like, we love elk,

2118
02:00:15,000 --> 02:00:18,160
Speaker 6: we want more elk. A lot of folks in Montana

2119
02:00:18,160 --> 02:00:20,160
Speaker 6: are like, we don't want more elk.

2120
02:00:20,800 --> 02:00:24,120
Speaker 7: Well, in Colorado, where there there's a new.

2121
02:00:24,640 --> 02:00:28,040
Speaker 10: Wolf population getting itself established, at some point they're going

2122
02:00:28,080 --> 02:00:31,560
Speaker 10: to have to decide how many will elk are we

2123
02:00:31,600 --> 02:00:36,480
Speaker 10: willing to like give to and how many elk are

2124
02:00:36,520 --> 02:00:37,760
Speaker 10: we saving for hunters?

2125
02:00:38,280 --> 02:00:40,800
Speaker 1: I think it's the only practical conversation and the same

2126
02:00:40,800 --> 02:00:46,080
Speaker 1: way we debate between different stakeholders, you know, the same

2127
02:00:46,080 --> 02:00:52,040
Speaker 1: way agricultural interests might argue with hunter interests about how

2128
02:00:52,040 --> 02:00:54,480
Speaker 1: many elk is the right number elk? How many deer

2129
02:00:54,520 --> 02:00:56,760
Speaker 1: is the right number a deer we're gonna have. We're

2130
02:00:56,760 --> 02:01:00,520
Speaker 1: gonna have conversations about how many line is the right

2131
02:01:00,600 --> 02:01:03,280
Speaker 1: number of lions, how many wolves is the right number

2132
02:01:03,280 --> 02:01:05,400
Speaker 1: of wolves, how many grizzly bears is the right number

2133
02:01:05,440 --> 02:01:07,520
Speaker 1: of grizzly bears, how many black bears is the right

2134
02:01:07,600 --> 02:01:10,720
Speaker 1: number of black bears. I don't think that the conversation

2135
02:01:10,880 --> 02:01:14,240
Speaker 1: is never going to return to should we poison them all?

2136
02:01:15,080 --> 02:01:17,720
Speaker 1: Its just right, I mean, be realistic.

2137
02:01:17,760 --> 02:01:20,480
Speaker 10: But the problem is, like these guys are saying there

2138
02:01:20,560 --> 02:01:23,040
Speaker 10: is no number that's big enough for some people.

2139
02:01:23,200 --> 02:01:26,320
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, and there's no number of elk it's

2140
02:01:26,360 --> 02:01:29,680
Speaker 1: big enough for some people. Right, I don't know many guys.

2141
02:01:29,760 --> 02:01:33,400
Speaker 1: I don't know many elk hunors the convenience about having

2142
02:01:36,160 --> 02:01:37,160
Speaker 1: I don't know those guys.

2143
02:01:37,880 --> 02:01:42,240
Speaker 8: There's a big difference between reintroducing and them coming in

2144
02:01:43,040 --> 02:01:44,680
Speaker 8: their own you know, natural attrition.

2145
02:01:44,840 --> 02:01:47,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, social friction is a big issue, and I think

2146
02:01:47,840 --> 02:01:50,080
Speaker 1: that's part of the To be fair to the woman

2147
02:01:50,120 --> 02:01:53,560
Speaker 1: that said we that she sort of questions the move,

2148
02:01:54,640 --> 02:01:58,120
Speaker 1: she said, the social conversation that we would have eventually

2149
02:01:58,200 --> 02:02:01,280
Speaker 1: got there, the social conversation would have been so different.

2150
02:02:01,480 --> 02:02:03,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, but even ecologically it's a big difference.

2151
02:02:03,800 --> 02:02:05,200
Speaker 1: It's been huge different psychologically.

2152
02:02:05,640 --> 02:02:09,480
Speaker 8: So like you drop one hundred wolves into an area

2153
02:02:09,840 --> 02:02:12,640
Speaker 8: and all the prey they've never seen a wolf before

2154
02:02:12,640 --> 02:02:15,080
Speaker 8: in their life. They don't know how to react towards

2155
02:02:15,080 --> 02:02:16,360
Speaker 8: the wolf. It's just like when you go out in

2156
02:02:16,400 --> 02:02:19,000
Speaker 8: the woods, deep deep bak back and you run into

2157
02:02:19,040 --> 02:02:21,040
Speaker 8: an elkan that's staring at you because he's never seen

2158
02:02:21,040 --> 02:02:21,960
Speaker 8: a human before.

2159
02:02:21,720 --> 02:02:24,800
Speaker 1: In your backyard. Or on the other he's never seen

2160
02:02:24,840 --> 02:02:26,960
Speaker 1: them or they've never heard them. Right, And they.

2161
02:02:26,880 --> 02:02:29,360
Speaker 3: Picked the problem wolves. Yeah that's in this case out

2162
02:02:29,400 --> 02:02:31,720
Speaker 3: of Oregon. Yeah, like they picked the wolves they wanted

2163
02:02:31,720 --> 02:02:32,360
Speaker 3: to get rid of.

2164
02:02:33,160 --> 02:02:36,760
Speaker 8: And from what I'm on them, that's like generally what happens. Okay,

2165
02:02:36,920 --> 02:02:39,280
Speaker 8: Like a state's like, okay, well we need we need

2166
02:02:39,320 --> 02:02:40,600
Speaker 8: to get rid of these problem.

2167
02:02:40,400 --> 02:02:42,800
Speaker 2: Childs, and yeah, let's ship them off to this state.

2168
02:02:43,680 --> 02:02:50,040
Speaker 8: So you know, you introduce a wolf that's never been

2169
02:02:50,040 --> 02:02:51,880
Speaker 8: on a landscape or hasn't been on the landscape for

2170
02:02:51,880 --> 02:02:54,760
Speaker 8: one hundred years or whatever. Those animals know how to

2171
02:02:55,120 --> 02:03:00,000
Speaker 8: how to deal with it. Also, those wolves don't know, Hey,

2172
02:03:00,080 --> 02:03:00,919
Speaker 8: where are my boundaries?

2173
02:03:00,960 --> 02:03:01,960
Speaker 2: What do I need to stay in?

2174
02:03:02,120 --> 02:03:04,120
Speaker 8: Like they're just going to keep going wherever they want

2175
02:03:04,120 --> 02:03:07,600
Speaker 8: to go, and like it just causes more.

2176
02:03:08,280 --> 02:03:12,760
Speaker 6: Dan Gates and I were just talking last week about Colorado,

2177
02:03:13,000 --> 02:03:15,520
Speaker 6: specifically on the on the wolves. We changed topics for

2178
02:03:15,560 --> 02:03:20,400
Speaker 6: a minute, and uh, we're just talking about how it

2179
02:03:20,480 --> 02:03:24,840
Speaker 6: is kind of funny where like that celebratory zeal of

2180
02:03:24,920 --> 02:03:30,480
Speaker 6: reintroduction has gone away. Yah, don't hear much of that anymore,

2181
02:03:31,000 --> 02:03:33,879
Speaker 6: but you are hearing from some of those same sources

2182
02:03:33,880 --> 02:03:37,840
Speaker 6: that were so happy about wolves being reintroduced to the

2183
02:03:37,880 --> 02:03:42,400
Speaker 6: state of like, oh boy, you know, this is kind

2184
02:03:42,400 --> 02:03:46,280
Speaker 6: of hard. This is kind of just because now there's

2185
02:03:46,440 --> 02:03:49,800
Speaker 6: as these wolves are getting into the predicted types of friction.

2186
02:03:50,120 --> 02:03:51,400
Speaker 2: There's a lot of buyer's remorse.

2187
02:03:51,600 --> 02:03:53,720
Speaker 6: There's a yeah, there's like, well, I didn't know it

2188
02:03:53,760 --> 02:03:55,880
Speaker 6: would be that, or I didn't know those wolves would

2189
02:03:55,880 --> 02:03:59,120
Speaker 6: be here. I thought, you know, So it's not like

2190
02:03:59,200 --> 02:04:00,680
Speaker 6: this one hundred percent dedication.

2191
02:04:02,160 --> 02:04:02,440
Speaker 1: It's not.

2192
02:04:04,000 --> 02:04:07,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, not so much, and It is just interesting because

2193
02:04:08,840 --> 02:04:10,920
Speaker 6: third time, now, like our memories.

2194
02:04:10,560 --> 02:04:13,440
Speaker 7: Are short, it just proved lethal management for him.

2195
02:04:13,760 --> 02:04:14,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh they did.

2196
02:04:14,960 --> 02:04:18,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, and there's an official pack now because some of

2197
02:04:18,960 --> 02:04:19,680
Speaker 10: them had a couple.

2198
02:04:19,920 --> 02:04:22,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I just saw an article came out. Yeah.

2199
02:04:23,480 --> 02:04:26,280
Speaker 3: That goes back to I think if the vote what

2200
02:04:26,400 --> 02:04:29,400
Speaker 3: was that Prop one one for in Colorado? If the

2201
02:04:29,480 --> 02:04:31,480
Speaker 3: vote was held today, I don't think it would pass. Nope,

2202
02:04:31,760 --> 02:04:34,160
Speaker 3: I really don't. Uh, but it goes back to what

2203
02:04:34,160 --> 02:04:36,120
Speaker 3: you were saying, people didn't know what they were voting for. Oh,

2204
02:04:36,160 --> 02:04:37,680
Speaker 3: I didn't know. It meant that. I didn't know it

2205
02:04:37,720 --> 02:04:38,040
Speaker 3: meant this.

2206
02:04:38,560 --> 02:04:39,920
Speaker 1: It was worded very weird.

2207
02:04:40,000 --> 02:04:41,000
Speaker 3: Yeah it was.

2208
02:04:41,120 --> 02:04:42,880
Speaker 1: It was worded in a way that it was sort

2209
02:04:42,920 --> 02:04:45,600
Speaker 1: of like a mandate that they, I don't know, set

2210
02:04:45,600 --> 02:04:49,520
Speaker 1: into motion a recovery plan or yeah, you know, it

2211
02:04:49,560 --> 02:04:51,560
Speaker 1: was under It was understood, but the wording could have

2212
02:04:51,600 --> 02:04:52,160
Speaker 1: been confusing.

2213
02:04:52,200 --> 02:04:53,839
Speaker 2: I think the wording is always confusing.

2214
02:04:53,960 --> 02:04:56,440
Speaker 8: I mean, even people who are trained to be able

2215
02:04:56,480 --> 02:04:59,440
Speaker 8: to read through these things and you readthrow a crapdown

2216
02:04:59,480 --> 02:05:03,480
Speaker 8: of them. I feel like it's always it's always like

2217
02:05:03,520 --> 02:05:07,440
Speaker 8: a word play. There's always like it. So people don't

2218
02:05:08,040 --> 02:05:10,040
Speaker 8: like for the lion thing, who's going to go read

2219
02:05:10,120 --> 02:05:12,160
Speaker 8: through this thing and see that there's you know, this

2220
02:05:12,360 --> 02:05:15,480
Speaker 8: trophy language put in there that could be transposed onto

2221
02:05:15,800 --> 02:05:17,760
Speaker 8: elk and deer and stuff in the future, didn't.

2222
02:05:17,760 --> 02:05:19,760
Speaker 3: I just see a clip of Cam Haynes. He said,

2223
02:05:19,920 --> 02:05:22,520
Speaker 3: I read it and I didn't know how to vote,

2224
02:05:23,280 --> 02:05:25,680
Speaker 3: like if it was if it was me voting, because

2225
02:05:25,800 --> 02:05:26,920
Speaker 3: I don't know what I was supposed to do.

2226
02:05:27,160 --> 02:05:29,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, just because the way the whole thing.

2227
02:05:28,920 --> 02:05:30,120
Speaker 3: Was a word.

2228
02:05:31,960 --> 02:05:37,320
Speaker 1: On the issues, the broader wolf issue. I'm of the

2229
02:05:37,360 --> 02:05:39,360
Speaker 1: opinion and I think you could you could arrive at

2230
02:05:39,360 --> 02:05:43,160
Speaker 1: this from a religious perspective, You could arrive at this

2231
02:05:43,200 --> 02:05:48,680
Speaker 1: from a secular historical view would be that there are animals,

2232
02:05:49,920 --> 02:05:53,640
Speaker 1: there are wild animals that live on our landscape, okay,

2233
02:05:54,880 --> 02:06:00,440
Speaker 1: that have just been there. They're there because God place

2234
02:06:00,520 --> 02:06:03,640
Speaker 1: them there. They're there because these billions of years of

2235
02:06:03,680 --> 02:06:09,040
Speaker 1: Earth history and all all these evolutions and ecological upheavals

2236
02:06:09,080 --> 02:06:10,680
Speaker 1: and things a place in there. But there's a there's

2237
02:06:10,720 --> 02:06:15,880
Speaker 1: a static nature to wildlife. And you got and you

2238
02:06:15,920 --> 02:06:17,800
Speaker 1: go look and you go like, Okay, at what point

2239
02:06:18,720 --> 02:06:24,560
Speaker 1: in history do I go and declare it being normal? Okay?

2240
02:06:25,640 --> 02:06:28,360
Speaker 1: Meaning some people would argue, well, the place ischine. That

2241
02:06:28,360 --> 02:06:30,440
Speaker 1: should be normal, and we should bring back mammos and

2242
02:06:30,480 --> 02:06:33,040
Speaker 1: bring back short face bears and turn them all loose,

2243
02:06:33,080 --> 02:06:35,440
Speaker 1: because that's when humans showed up in the New World,

2244
02:06:35,440 --> 02:06:38,800
Speaker 1: and so normal should be that day. I tend to

2245
02:06:39,040 --> 02:06:44,960
Speaker 1: view normal normal in my mind, just because you have

2246
02:06:45,000 --> 02:06:48,000
Speaker 1: to pick an arbitrary point. Normal in my mind is

2247
02:06:48,040 --> 02:06:55,120
Speaker 1: the distribution of wildlife at the time of European contact.

2248
02:06:55,880 --> 02:07:04,000
Speaker 1: And I don't I don't believe in removing certain turtles

2249
02:07:04,520 --> 02:07:07,360
Speaker 1: from the landscape. I don't believe in removing certain birds

2250
02:07:07,360 --> 02:07:10,760
Speaker 1: from the landscape. I don't believe in removing certain invertebrates

2251
02:07:10,800 --> 02:07:14,600
Speaker 1: from the landscape. I don't like extinction. I don't like

2252
02:07:14,680 --> 02:07:17,360
Speaker 1: extra patient. I just don't. I don't care what it is.

2253
02:07:17,400 --> 02:07:20,720
Speaker 1: I don't like extinction and extirpation. And here's where it

2254
02:07:20,720 --> 02:07:23,240
Speaker 1: gets like a little bit complicated, because I do think

2255
02:07:23,400 --> 02:07:28,800
Speaker 1: that a right like like animals have a right to

2256
02:07:28,800 --> 02:07:32,800
Speaker 1: be on the landscape. There's a reality that we live

2257
02:07:32,840 --> 02:07:36,440
Speaker 1: in and all of those spieceis are going to be

2258
02:07:36,920 --> 02:07:39,680
Speaker 1: need to be managed from a very human perspective of

2259
02:07:40,680 --> 02:07:42,680
Speaker 1: what are our needs and what are the balancing thing

2260
02:07:42,760 --> 02:07:44,360
Speaker 1: because we're here.

2261
02:07:44,960 --> 02:07:47,480
Speaker 8: And we're the biggest consumers of everything, and we affect

2262
02:07:47,520 --> 02:07:49,720
Speaker 8: more change. We never even have to leave your living

2263
02:07:49,760 --> 02:07:51,160
Speaker 8: room to affect what happens out.

2264
02:07:51,040 --> 02:07:51,400
Speaker 3: In the woods.

2265
02:07:51,480 --> 02:07:56,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and as we as we discovered, like in certain areas,

2266
02:07:56,800 --> 02:08:01,080
Speaker 1: like with forest management, not doing anything is not the

2267
02:08:01,120 --> 02:08:03,400
Speaker 1: answer in a lot of in a lot of areas,

2268
02:08:03,480 --> 02:08:05,680
Speaker 1: not doing anything, letting it do its own natural thing

2269
02:08:06,760 --> 02:08:10,560
Speaker 1: isn't the answer, right, because we've we're here, Yeah.

2270
02:08:10,360 --> 02:08:10,800
Speaker 3: We're here.

2271
02:08:10,880 --> 02:08:12,240
Speaker 1: We've stirred things up so much.

2272
02:08:12,240 --> 02:08:13,400
Speaker 2: We got LODs everywhere.

2273
02:08:13,520 --> 02:08:16,480
Speaker 8: We consume all these different you know, things that we

2274
02:08:16,880 --> 02:08:21,160
Speaker 8: take out of wood or fuel and rocks and sand,

2275
02:08:21,200 --> 02:08:24,880
Speaker 8: and sure everything's disrupted by by man. And there's what

2276
02:08:25,000 --> 02:08:26,560
Speaker 8: eight billion of us on the on the planet.

2277
02:08:26,640 --> 02:08:26,800
Speaker 9: Now.

2278
02:08:27,280 --> 02:08:30,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like grizzly bears. Yeah, I like seeing them.

2279
02:08:30,360 --> 02:08:32,240
Speaker 1: I've never been sad to see a grizzly bear. I

2280
02:08:32,280 --> 02:08:34,520
Speaker 1: love grizzly bears. I don't think grizzly bears should be

2281
02:08:34,600 --> 02:08:35,560
Speaker 1: listed under the.

2282
02:08:35,680 --> 02:08:37,360
Speaker 3: Es A right, agreed.

2283
02:08:37,760 --> 02:08:40,720
Speaker 1: It's like both of those things are simultaneously true for me.

2284
02:08:40,840 --> 02:08:46,240
Speaker 1: I love them. It's time to come off the list.

2285
02:08:46,760 --> 02:08:49,360
Speaker 3: You said a lot right there, So you went, you

2286
02:08:49,400 --> 02:08:52,640
Speaker 3: went back thousands of years for animals and you brought

2287
02:08:52,720 --> 02:08:55,040
Speaker 3: up God or you brought up evolution, whatever it is

2288
02:08:55,040 --> 02:08:59,640
Speaker 3: that that people believe. I think the same idea exists

2289
02:08:59,640 --> 02:09:02,880
Speaker 3: for humans because people say, oh, they were here first

2290
02:09:03,520 --> 02:09:08,760
Speaker 3: or it's their home. Well, where are we from? You know,

2291
02:09:09,400 --> 02:09:12,240
Speaker 3: where exactly are we from? If you believe in the

2292
02:09:12,280 --> 02:09:15,920
Speaker 3: evolutionary process or the creation process, what we still land

2293
02:09:15,960 --> 02:09:17,440
Speaker 3: here on earth?

2294
02:09:17,840 --> 02:09:20,600
Speaker 1: Like imagine someone in Africa saying, well, they were here first? Yeah,

2295
02:09:21,200 --> 02:09:23,120
Speaker 1: define who's there right right?

2296
02:09:24,200 --> 02:09:26,560
Speaker 3: And it's always just an interesting It really throws me

2297
02:09:26,600 --> 02:09:28,080
Speaker 3: off when I when I hear that a lot, the

2298
02:09:28,120 --> 02:09:32,040
Speaker 3: whole they were here first thing and you know, basically,

2299
02:09:32,240 --> 02:09:35,720
Speaker 3: but the other thing that you brought up about grizzlies

2300
02:09:35,720 --> 02:09:38,240
Speaker 3: and ESA and you brought it up earlier with some billboards.

2301
02:09:40,280 --> 02:09:44,320
Speaker 3: It wasn't a holl sponsored billboard, but I designed maybe

2302
02:09:44,360 --> 02:09:48,240
Speaker 3: you've seen it. I think it's at the north end

2303
02:09:48,280 --> 02:09:53,919
Speaker 3: of Yellowstone in the South in Wyoming, there's a billboard

2304
02:09:53,960 --> 02:09:56,680
Speaker 3: that says, I think it's like grizzly bear recovery is

2305
02:09:56,680 --> 02:10:00,640
Speaker 3: a conservation success story. So I designed that or whoever

2306
02:10:00,640 --> 02:10:06,960
Speaker 3: put it up, and that inspired apparently all these other

2307
02:10:07,000 --> 02:10:10,040
Speaker 3: billboards that I think some of the trapping organizations or

2308
02:10:10,080 --> 02:10:14,440
Speaker 3: whoever the ones that you mentioned earlier that they've been

2309
02:10:14,440 --> 02:10:18,760
Speaker 3: putting up, because it wasn't the typical billboard that would

2310
02:10:18,800 --> 02:10:23,000
Speaker 3: come from hunters. Because what I was presented with was, hey,

2311
02:10:23,000 --> 02:10:25,400
Speaker 3: do you have any ideas on this on billboards? I said, well,

2312
02:10:25,440 --> 02:10:28,800
Speaker 3: what do you got this? And it was like a

2313
02:10:28,840 --> 02:10:31,760
Speaker 3: bunch of furs hanging and something like smoke a pack

2314
02:10:31,800 --> 02:10:34,080
Speaker 3: of day I don't know, something like that.

2315
02:10:33,240 --> 02:10:37,600
Speaker 6: And I'm like, Okay, where are you putting popular bumper?

2316
02:10:38,520 --> 02:10:38,680
Speaker 5: Right?

2317
02:10:38,840 --> 02:10:42,720
Speaker 3: Yes? Where where exactly are you putting this? Well, you know,

2318
02:10:42,840 --> 02:10:48,720
Speaker 3: the entrance to Yellowstone, Like, Okay, who's coming in and out? Tourists?

2319
02:10:48,760 --> 02:10:52,840
Speaker 3: Probably people who don't hunt. I can't believe you're thinking

2320
02:10:52,880 --> 02:10:55,040
Speaker 3: this way, So let me work on it. Let's let's

2321
02:10:55,120 --> 02:10:59,160
Speaker 3: let's take the grizzly bear situation. Let's look at the

2322
02:10:59,240 --> 02:11:02,840
Speaker 3: success story. It is a success story. Let's make it that.

2323
02:11:03,080 --> 02:11:07,200
Speaker 3: Let's challenge the public who's coming in. Let's challenge the

2324
02:11:07,200 --> 02:11:09,560
Speaker 3: the the anna hunters with kind of their own rhetoric

2325
02:11:10,640 --> 02:11:13,400
Speaker 3: and give the actual success story here. We have so

2326
02:11:13,480 --> 02:11:15,960
Speaker 3: many things and positive things that we can talk about

2327
02:11:16,440 --> 02:11:19,360
Speaker 3: that we've done in the last one hundred years. That's

2328
02:11:19,400 --> 02:11:21,080
Speaker 3: the kind of stuff we need the market. That's the

2329
02:11:21,160 --> 02:11:23,160
Speaker 3: kind of stuff, you know, that that we need to

2330
02:11:23,160 --> 02:11:28,960
Speaker 3: get out there. And apparently apparently that billboard really struck

2331
02:11:29,000 --> 02:11:31,440
Speaker 3: a nerve with with the Anna hunting orgs because they're

2332
02:11:31,480 --> 02:11:35,120
Speaker 3: not they're shoot. We need to we need to combat

2333
02:11:35,160 --> 02:11:37,400
Speaker 3: that a little bit because that's not their usual strategy.

2334
02:11:37,720 --> 02:11:41,160
Speaker 3: Usually it's easy. Usually it's you know, some organizations got

2335
02:11:41,200 --> 02:11:45,800
Speaker 3: a you know, trailer going down the highway representing the organization.

2336
02:11:45,840 --> 02:11:48,240
Speaker 3: They got a picture of a wolf and a and

2337
02:11:48,320 --> 02:11:50,840
Speaker 3: a scope ratical over the over the wolf. I'm like,

2338
02:11:51,720 --> 02:11:54,120
Speaker 3: is that so that's your one chance to talk to

2339
02:11:54,560 --> 02:11:58,200
Speaker 3: the general public and that's what they see is just

2340
02:11:58,720 --> 02:12:01,360
Speaker 3: kill them all to minds with that, that's what we're

2341
02:12:01,360 --> 02:12:04,680
Speaker 3: putting out. Yeah, you're not winning anything, but it just

2342
02:12:04,920 --> 02:12:06,720
Speaker 3: it made me think of that when you brought that up.

2343
02:12:06,880 --> 02:12:09,400
Speaker 3: You know, back to the optics thing and back to

2344
02:12:09,080 --> 02:12:12,760
Speaker 3: to to messaging and you know where I think we

2345
02:12:12,800 --> 02:12:15,160
Speaker 3: should be as an as an industry what we should

2346
02:12:15,160 --> 02:12:16,240
Speaker 3: be doing the.

2347
02:12:16,920 --> 02:12:20,560
Speaker 1: Question with with grizzlies too. That's interesting in how people

2348
02:12:20,560 --> 02:12:23,000
Speaker 1: position it to say that it's hunters that want them off.

2349
02:12:23,120 --> 02:12:25,080
Speaker 1: People lose sight of the fact that you know, who

2350
02:12:25,200 --> 02:12:28,880
Speaker 1: keeps trying to get them off. Is the federal agency

2351
02:12:29,840 --> 02:12:32,600
Speaker 1: that has managed them since the seventies, Yeah, the US

2352
02:12:32,680 --> 02:12:35,680
Speaker 1: Fish and Wildlife Service. Yeah, are the ones moving to

2353
02:12:35,760 --> 02:12:39,040
Speaker 1: remove them from the list? Ye, they're getting like the

2354
02:12:39,120 --> 02:12:43,120
Speaker 1: management agent, the federal management agency is getting blocked from

2355
02:12:43,520 --> 02:12:45,640
Speaker 1: doing what they think their job is to do, which

2356
02:12:45,720 --> 02:12:49,000
Speaker 1: is removing from the list. You leave you can leave

2357
02:12:49,040 --> 02:12:50,840
Speaker 1: the states out of that for a minute, because it's

2358
02:12:50,880 --> 02:12:52,120
Speaker 1: it's them saying.

2359
02:12:51,880 --> 02:12:55,840
Speaker 8: It's imagine that job. You know, you got to do this,

2360
02:12:55,960 --> 02:12:57,640
Speaker 8: but I'm not going to give you any tools to

2361
02:12:57,680 --> 02:12:58,080
Speaker 8: do that with.

2362
02:12:58,240 --> 02:12:58,440
Speaker 2: You know.

2363
02:12:58,480 --> 02:13:00,880
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, it's it. That's the thing to get

2364
02:13:00,960 --> 02:13:02,760
Speaker 1: lost here. And it was the same thing with wolves.

2365
02:13:02,800 --> 02:13:06,960
Speaker 1: The US Fish and Wildlife Service moved to remove wolves

2366
02:13:06,960 --> 02:13:09,920
Speaker 1: from the list. They initiate the conversation.

2367
02:13:12,320 --> 02:13:17,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, I would love to get somebody on that we

2368
02:13:17,600 --> 02:13:20,720
Speaker 6: can talk about like accurate numbers of lethal removal, because

2369
02:13:20,800 --> 02:13:23,840
Speaker 6: like when I went back and did the Idaho bear

2370
02:13:23,960 --> 02:13:29,000
Speaker 6: capture with Idaho Fishing Game, it was I think it

2371
02:13:29,320 --> 02:13:35,160
Speaker 6: was just prior to July fourth weekend and at that point,

2372
02:13:36,040 --> 02:13:39,160
Speaker 6: Montana had killed twenty six grizzly bears that that year.

2373
02:13:40,560 --> 02:13:45,000
Speaker 6: For you know, conflict mitigation basically yeah, and you know,

2374
02:13:45,120 --> 02:13:51,520
Speaker 6: and typically Wyoming's twice what Montana is and you know,

2375
02:13:51,600 --> 02:13:56,040
Speaker 6: Idaho is a handful. So and that's what I see

2376
02:13:56,040 --> 02:13:59,040
Speaker 6: all the time, is like, well, if you d list

2377
02:13:59,120 --> 02:14:02,600
Speaker 6: hunters are going to kill the it's like, well, somebody's

2378
02:14:02,680 --> 02:14:03,520
Speaker 6: killing him right now.

2379
02:14:03,920 --> 02:14:04,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2380
02:14:04,360 --> 02:14:04,480
Speaker 9: Right.

2381
02:14:05,560 --> 02:14:08,240
Speaker 8: California is a great example of that with with the Mountalliance.

2382
02:14:09,240 --> 02:14:11,960
Speaker 3: And it doesn't it doesn't mean yeah to your point,

2383
02:14:12,600 --> 02:14:15,640
Speaker 3: I asked that question to uh, all right, if grizzly

2384
02:14:15,640 --> 02:14:19,720
Speaker 3: bears are delisted, what's that mean? Maybe twenty hunting tags

2385
02:14:19,720 --> 02:14:20,360
Speaker 3: in Montana.

2386
02:14:20,800 --> 02:14:24,480
Speaker 1: Well, the first year it was zero. Okay, the first

2387
02:14:24,560 --> 02:14:28,000
Speaker 1: year it was twenty four and Wyoming okay one, and

2388
02:14:28,040 --> 02:14:31,120
Speaker 1: it which was like I love it exauist the classic wholming. Yeah,

2389
02:14:31,160 --> 02:14:34,560
Speaker 1: it's twenty four in Wyoming. Idaho was doing a symbolic

2390
02:14:34,680 --> 02:14:36,720
Speaker 1: one just to exercise the right.

2391
02:14:36,600 --> 02:14:39,520
Speaker 6: Shirt, which was only open to residents, and I got

2392
02:14:39,560 --> 02:14:41,000
Speaker 6: to apply for that tag.

2393
02:14:41,520 --> 02:14:46,640
Speaker 1: In Montana on the fish drop, the Fishing Game Agency,

2394
02:14:47,680 --> 02:14:51,840
Speaker 1: Montana's Fishing Game Agency under Martha Williams at the time,

2395
02:14:52,960 --> 02:14:55,320
Speaker 1: decided to sit it out.

2396
02:14:55,720 --> 02:14:56,960
Speaker 2: Didn't want to deal with the bs.

2397
02:14:57,000 --> 02:14:59,480
Speaker 1: Probably that just they wanted to see I mean, while

2398
02:14:59,520 --> 02:15:03,400
Speaker 1: they want to and the smart thing, I don't want

2399
02:15:03,400 --> 02:15:06,120
Speaker 1: to put it that way, not smart thing, but I mean,

2400
02:15:06,360 --> 02:15:08,400
Speaker 1: these other states are conducting tag draws.

2401
02:15:10,040 --> 02:15:13,240
Speaker 7: They went through, you know, they spent some money on that.

2402
02:15:13,720 --> 02:15:17,320
Speaker 1: They're like they were, they were rolling, and so I

2403
02:15:17,320 --> 02:15:19,360
Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to, you know, I'm not.

2404
02:15:19,520 --> 02:15:21,800
Speaker 1: I was involved in all the conversations, but I could picture.

2405
02:15:21,960 --> 02:15:24,040
Speaker 1: I could picture both ways. I could picture an eagerness

2406
02:15:24,040 --> 02:15:28,560
Speaker 1: to exercise the right. I could also picture saying I'm

2407
02:15:28,560 --> 02:15:31,680
Speaker 1: gonna I have a feeling about where this might go

2408
02:15:31,720 --> 02:15:35,320
Speaker 1: in the courts, and I'm not gonna go start printing

2409
02:15:36,880 --> 02:15:40,040
Speaker 1: tags and whatnot because I don't have.

2410
02:15:39,960 --> 02:15:42,320
Speaker 6: The whole system to return people's money.

2411
02:15:42,360 --> 02:15:44,200
Speaker 1: I don't know that this is going through, right.

2412
02:15:44,560 --> 02:15:47,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, but that brings up a good Wyoming point too, right,

2413
02:15:47,920 --> 02:15:51,120
Speaker 6: because you know, Wyoming's like, yep, we're gonna hunt grizzly

2414
02:15:51,120 --> 02:15:58,600
Speaker 6: bears the twenty tags. And again, I in Idaho at

2415
02:15:58,600 --> 02:16:01,160
Speaker 6: the time, and I was our aready working with Idaho

2416
02:16:01,520 --> 02:16:04,320
Speaker 6: Fishing Game to a degree to figure out how to

2417
02:16:04,440 --> 02:16:12,800
Speaker 6: change the requirements for bear harvest in Idaho because grizzly

2418
02:16:12,880 --> 02:16:16,600
Speaker 6: is such a political football and we're staring at Wyoming,

2419
02:16:16,880 --> 02:16:20,600
Speaker 6: where it's like, you don't legally have to take anything

2420
02:16:20,680 --> 02:16:26,000
Speaker 6: other than the trophy parts. We're like, well, if this

2421
02:16:26,040 --> 02:16:27,760
Speaker 6: isn't going to blow up in our face, then nothing

2422
02:16:27,800 --> 02:16:29,040
Speaker 6: will right.

2423
02:16:29,320 --> 02:16:30,000
Speaker 3: And it's like that.

2424
02:16:30,480 --> 02:16:38,160
Speaker 6: It's another example of hunters probably following in line with

2425
02:16:38,200 --> 02:16:40,959
Speaker 6: some anti hunters. It's like, oh, I bet if you

2426
02:16:41,000 --> 02:16:43,520
Speaker 6: made them take the meat, they wouldn't want to do it, right.

2427
02:16:45,480 --> 02:16:48,400
Speaker 3: That's one of the Maggie's still there. That's one of

2428
02:16:48,440 --> 02:16:53,920
Speaker 3: the things Maggie that I know American Bear Foundation and

2429
02:16:55,280 --> 02:16:59,120
Speaker 3: Wyoming Wildlife Federation is wanting to get pushed through in

2430
02:16:59,160 --> 02:17:02,879
Speaker 3: Wyoming is it's one of the few states that doesn't

2431
02:17:02,879 --> 02:17:03,879
Speaker 3: have wanton waste laws.

2432
02:17:04,120 --> 02:17:04,480
Speaker 5: Iaho.

2433
02:17:05,520 --> 02:17:08,119
Speaker 7: It's you don't have to take it in Idaho.

2434
02:17:07,879 --> 02:17:12,280
Speaker 6: Now still not on black bear on bear, which was

2435
02:17:12,400 --> 02:17:14,880
Speaker 6: according when I was digging in the weedze on that

2436
02:17:15,040 --> 02:17:23,160
Speaker 6: it was burdensome to the state to uh have to

2437
02:17:24,760 --> 02:17:26,879
Speaker 6: you can just dispose of the carcass and the landfill

2438
02:17:26,959 --> 02:17:30,640
Speaker 6: for problem bears or the state would also have to

2439
02:17:30,680 --> 02:17:33,840
Speaker 6: adhere to the same regulations, was the way it was

2440
02:17:33,879 --> 02:17:36,879
Speaker 6: explained to me. Yeah, as as a hunter, harvest can.

2441
02:17:37,000 --> 02:17:37,600
Speaker 3: Be true.

2442
02:17:40,280 --> 02:17:43,680
Speaker 1: If you had if the state has wanton waste laws

2443
02:17:43,720 --> 02:17:46,039
Speaker 1: on ducks, and they got wanton waste laws on elk,

2444
02:17:46,080 --> 02:17:48,960
Speaker 1: and they got wanton waste laws on deer and doves.

2445
02:17:51,720 --> 02:17:54,879
Speaker 1: It would just by a matter of logic extended, they

2446
02:17:54,879 --> 02:18:00,920
Speaker 1: would have wanton waste laws on black bears. Right, I'm

2447
02:18:00,920 --> 02:18:02,240
Speaker 1: gonna share. Let me share you with you. I want

2448
02:18:02,240 --> 02:18:05,879
Speaker 1: to share with you. Quick quote, uh John Mack the

2449
02:18:06,040 --> 02:18:15,600
Speaker 1: historian John mac farrager who John mac ferriger, a historian

2450
02:18:15,800 --> 02:18:22,400
Speaker 1: who is raised and partly educated in California, and describing

2451
02:18:22,520 --> 02:18:25,720
Speaker 1: the frontier of colonial America, you want to already said?

2452
02:18:27,200 --> 02:18:32,560
Speaker 1: He said, European settlers and Native Americans alike considered bear

2453
02:18:32,640 --> 02:18:39,560
Speaker 1: meat the prime game meat. Venison was inferior eating. So

2454
02:18:40,560 --> 02:18:43,560
Speaker 1: I I don't know why if a state is going

2455
02:18:43,640 --> 02:18:45,879
Speaker 1: to go through the trouble spelling out wanton waste laws,

2456
02:18:45,879 --> 02:18:49,879
Speaker 1: they wouldn't extend it to Yeah. Why is that the exception?

2457
02:18:50,400 --> 02:18:55,519
Speaker 1: Yea uns because some squeamish people think it's icky.

2458
02:18:55,280 --> 02:18:56,920
Speaker 7: Maybe the trick and osis thing.

2459
02:18:57,240 --> 02:18:59,080
Speaker 1: Well, then they should have it. They eat then that they.

2460
02:18:59,000 --> 02:19:05,600
Speaker 7: Then I'm not you must cook it, Yeah, like.

2461
02:19:05,560 --> 02:19:08,320
Speaker 1: Your chicken and like your pork, and like your bacon.

2462
02:19:08,440 --> 02:19:11,760
Speaker 3: You gotta cook it exactly and bear is delicious. How's

2463
02:19:11,760 --> 02:19:13,440
Speaker 3: he going to say? I think that's my favorite game

2464
02:19:13,480 --> 02:19:16,960
Speaker 3: to eat is black bear. I absolutely love it. And

2465
02:19:17,000 --> 02:19:18,879
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's because if it's a it

2466
02:19:18,920 --> 02:19:19,760
Speaker 3: could be a combination.

2467
02:19:19,840 --> 02:19:24,760
Speaker 6: Are you coming from A I'm coming from definitely.

2468
02:19:26,480 --> 02:19:29,760
Speaker 7: You don't got to convince us. But like, I went

2469
02:19:29,879 --> 02:19:33,879
Speaker 7: on a bear hunt in Idaho where.

2470
02:19:33,680 --> 02:19:36,119
Speaker 3: There was a group.

2471
02:19:35,800 --> 02:19:38,480
Speaker 7: Of hunters and it was hound hunting, and I was

2472
02:19:38,520 --> 02:19:41,720
Speaker 7: the only one it took that bear meat home.

2473
02:19:41,920 --> 02:19:44,520
Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, but buck Bowden just told you

2474
02:19:46,120 --> 02:19:48,600
Speaker 1: it's an exception for one of his clients to take.

2475
02:19:48,480 --> 02:19:51,120
Speaker 7: His moose meat. It's like a convenience thing. It's like

2476
02:19:51,320 --> 02:19:53,160
Speaker 7: I don't want to be bothered with it, which is.

2477
02:19:54,360 --> 02:19:55,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.

2478
02:19:55,560 --> 02:19:57,519
Speaker 1: I had a friend that went on a bear hunt

2479
02:19:57,720 --> 02:20:03,000
Speaker 1: in Canada and they were so flabbergas that he wanted

2480
02:20:03,000 --> 02:20:04,680
Speaker 1: to bring his bear home from the bear hunt. They

2481
02:20:04,680 --> 02:20:06,199
Speaker 1: tried to convince him that he couldn't.

2482
02:20:07,000 --> 02:20:08,240
Speaker 2: He did that to me in Quebec.

2483
02:20:08,560 --> 02:20:09,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, he had to be like, what do you mean,

2484
02:20:09,879 --> 02:20:12,040
Speaker 1: I can't? He just can't because of this that and

2485
02:20:12,080 --> 02:20:14,959
Speaker 1: their thing. So he started making some calls around and

2486
02:20:14,959 --> 02:20:17,279
Speaker 1: he's like, listen, I can, and I'm gonna.

2487
02:20:17,560 --> 02:20:17,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2488
02:20:18,080 --> 02:20:19,480
Speaker 1: I had to fight with him about it.

2489
02:20:19,720 --> 02:20:23,039
Speaker 8: I left two bears in Quebec and this is like

2490
02:20:23,160 --> 02:20:25,400
Speaker 8: twenty years ago now, and the guy's like, no, you

2491
02:20:25,440 --> 02:20:26,640
Speaker 8: can't take them here.

2492
02:20:26,840 --> 02:20:28,040
Speaker 2: They're riddled with worms.

2493
02:20:28,120 --> 02:20:29,560
Speaker 1: Oh no, they were giving them like a like a

2494
02:20:29,720 --> 02:20:33,280
Speaker 1: regulation thing the border. Well, he did all of his

2495
02:20:33,320 --> 02:20:33,840
Speaker 1: own homework.

2496
02:20:33,920 --> 02:20:36,160
Speaker 8: I was going to fly it back because I flew there.

2497
02:20:36,200 --> 02:20:38,920
Speaker 8: I mean I didn't drive. I was living in Arizona, Quebecs,

2498
02:20:39,200 --> 02:20:42,760
Speaker 8: you know, but m Yeah, they wouldn't let me take

2499
02:20:42,800 --> 02:20:45,160
Speaker 8: it back. And then I found out afterwards when I

2500
02:20:45,160 --> 02:20:47,480
Speaker 8: got back that it was bs that I had. You know,

2501
02:20:47,520 --> 02:20:49,640
Speaker 8: I didn't just brought it to a meat process or

2502
02:20:49,640 --> 02:20:51,520
Speaker 8: maybe got a frozen and chipped or whatever.

2503
02:20:51,640 --> 02:20:51,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2504
02:20:53,560 --> 02:20:55,000
Speaker 2: He didn't even get my heights.

2505
02:20:55,120 --> 02:20:55,720
Speaker 1: Never got them.

2506
02:20:55,800 --> 02:20:56,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was weird.

2507
02:20:57,040 --> 02:21:01,640
Speaker 1: If people want to debate the merits of salvage requirements,

2508
02:21:02,959 --> 02:21:05,920
Speaker 1: debate the merits of salvage requirements, But if you're gonna

2509
02:21:05,959 --> 02:21:08,600
Speaker 1: apply salvage requirements to game animals, I mean it just

2510
02:21:08,600 --> 02:21:11,400
Speaker 1: seems like it can just apply if you like, I

2511
02:21:11,440 --> 02:21:13,080
Speaker 1: know what side I would argue on. But if you

2512
02:21:13,080 --> 02:21:15,240
Speaker 1: want a debate, like, can the government tell you to

2513
02:21:15,360 --> 02:21:20,680
Speaker 1: remove certain stuff from the woods. Alaska uses salvage requirements

2514
02:21:20,720 --> 02:21:24,080
Speaker 1: in a way to almost like guide's activities. They have

2515
02:21:24,200 --> 02:21:26,320
Speaker 1: areas where they're like, you have to bring the moose

2516
02:21:26,400 --> 02:21:28,600
Speaker 1: ribs out on the rack. I think they even had

2517
02:21:28,600 --> 02:21:32,680
Speaker 1: an area where you needed to remove the liver. They

2518
02:21:32,720 --> 02:21:35,240
Speaker 1: got areas where certain permits if you kill a moose,

2519
02:21:35,280 --> 02:21:39,440
Speaker 1: you gotta cut its antler in half, muscos, you gotta

2520
02:21:39,520 --> 02:21:41,960
Speaker 1: destroy its trophy value if you're gonna hunt the area.

2521
02:21:42,959 --> 02:21:45,400
Speaker 1: So they're and this is not a softy state, I'll

2522
02:21:45,440 --> 02:21:50,400
Speaker 1: point out, No, they're guiding. They're directly saying, here's who

2523
02:21:50,480 --> 02:21:53,440
Speaker 1: we want. These are the people we're looking for. If

2524
02:21:53,440 --> 02:21:55,280
Speaker 1: you're gonna hunt moose in this area, you're gonna be

2525
02:21:55,280 --> 02:21:56,960
Speaker 1: the kind of guy that's gonna bring the ribs out

2526
02:21:57,000 --> 02:21:59,440
Speaker 1: on the bone, or you're gonna be the kind of

2527
02:21:59,440 --> 02:22:01,520
Speaker 1: guy that's willing to cut that antler in half and

2528
02:22:01,560 --> 02:22:07,080
Speaker 1: then bring it out because it's you know, they're they're they're.

2529
02:22:06,920 --> 02:22:08,440
Speaker 8: Because they want to see you pack out an extra

2530
02:22:08,480 --> 02:22:09,320
Speaker 8: couple hundred pounds.

2531
02:22:09,320 --> 02:22:12,520
Speaker 1: They're just they're sort of playing there. I mean, I'll

2532
02:22:12,920 --> 02:22:16,440
Speaker 1: put it gently, I mean they're playing favorites with certain

2533
02:22:16,720 --> 02:22:17,360
Speaker 1: user groups.

2534
02:22:18,640 --> 02:22:20,279
Speaker 3: Can you clue those antlers back together?

2535
02:22:20,440 --> 02:22:22,840
Speaker 6: No, for sure you can't. Like the state of the

2536
02:22:22,879 --> 02:22:26,960
Speaker 6: State of Montana two years ago they changed the regulations

2537
02:22:26,959 --> 02:22:28,880
Speaker 6: to where you don't have to keep your duck legs yep.

2538
02:22:29,200 --> 02:22:31,480
Speaker 6: And I'm like, I'm the type of person where I'm like,

2539
02:22:31,480 --> 02:22:33,080
Speaker 6: if you don't know how to cook a duck leg

2540
02:22:33,120 --> 02:22:35,000
Speaker 6: and eat it, you shouldn't be hunting ducks.

2541
02:22:35,040 --> 02:22:41,360
Speaker 1: Sure, pretend your game regulation? Yeah, tell us How? Tell

2542
02:22:41,400 --> 02:22:44,680
Speaker 1: us how people can find out about how and read

2543
02:22:44,800 --> 02:22:47,320
Speaker 1: the what you guys get involved in?

2544
02:22:48,200 --> 02:22:51,879
Speaker 3: How for wildlife dot org social media, we basically do

2545
02:22:51,920 --> 02:22:57,039
Speaker 3: everything on Instagram. It's just the path we chose. That's

2546
02:22:57,080 --> 02:23:01,640
Speaker 3: how underscore org and uh uh, you can sign up

2547
02:23:01,680 --> 02:23:04,920
Speaker 3: for free alerts so when we do have actions, you

2548
02:23:04,959 --> 02:23:10,200
Speaker 3: get those emails. Those emails are very detailed. We work

2549
02:23:10,280 --> 02:23:13,920
Speaker 3: with a lot of state partners we call them conservation partners,

2550
02:23:14,320 --> 02:23:16,480
Speaker 3: but basically to get on the right track with everything,

2551
02:23:16,520 --> 02:23:19,000
Speaker 3: it's not us and how saying we should do this,

2552
02:23:19,160 --> 02:23:22,119
Speaker 3: we should write it up this way. We're very very

2553
02:23:22,160 --> 02:23:25,440
Speaker 3: reliant on who we consider the experts. So when you

2554
02:23:25,440 --> 02:23:28,959
Speaker 3: get that information, it's probably going to be the best

2555
02:23:29,040 --> 02:23:32,200
Speaker 3: info you find on that on that issue on you know,

2556
02:23:32,840 --> 02:23:35,800
Speaker 3: here it is broken down and then here's how you

2557
02:23:35,800 --> 02:23:36,440
Speaker 3: get involved.

2558
02:23:36,640 --> 02:23:40,039
Speaker 1: And you guys covered you got what is your explain

2559
02:23:40,040 --> 02:23:42,200
Speaker 1: to people what your sort of jurisdiction is around the country,

2560
02:23:42,200 --> 02:23:43,640
Speaker 1: Like what states do you follow?

2561
02:23:43,680 --> 02:23:48,840
Speaker 3: The issues in every everything? It depends on how much time.

2562
02:23:49,120 --> 02:23:51,920
Speaker 3: We're very small. It depends on how much time we have,

2563
02:23:52,160 --> 02:23:55,560
Speaker 3: the how much time we have to act on the issue.

2564
02:23:55,600 --> 02:23:58,039
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's it'll come up and we got to do

2565
02:23:58,080 --> 02:24:00,360
Speaker 3: something in five days. It's it's really how.

2566
02:24:00,440 --> 02:24:02,840
Speaker 8: It's whether or not we can affect change on it too.

2567
02:24:03,040 --> 02:24:06,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, And our our system is kind of complex, so

2568
02:24:06,600 --> 02:24:11,520
Speaker 3: it takes some time to build that. But we we meet,

2569
02:24:11,560 --> 02:24:16,080
Speaker 3: you know, with with our group with Everett he Everett

2570
02:24:16,080 --> 02:24:18,280
Speaker 3: had Lee he's a part of hall and and Mike Costello,

2571
02:24:18,520 --> 02:24:21,240
Speaker 3: who's uh, who's a part of holl And. Then it's

2572
02:24:21,320 --> 02:24:24,320
Speaker 3: John and myself and we have a few writers besides that.

2573
02:24:24,320 --> 02:24:28,039
Speaker 3: That's that's it. So we're heavily relying on those. On

2574
02:24:28,120 --> 02:24:30,480
Speaker 3: those partners, we decide is this a good thing for

2575
02:24:30,560 --> 02:24:34,000
Speaker 3: us to get involved in, will it be effective? Does

2576
02:24:34,000 --> 02:24:36,440
Speaker 3: the bill have legs? There's that too, because I don't

2577
02:24:36,440 --> 02:24:39,400
Speaker 3: want to waste people's time there's thousands of bills.

2578
02:24:39,560 --> 02:24:42,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you mean things that are just gestures.

2579
02:24:43,200 --> 02:24:44,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's so many of those.

2580
02:24:44,720 --> 02:24:45,840
Speaker 2: We had one the other day.

2581
02:24:45,879 --> 02:24:47,880
Speaker 8: You actually told me yesterday that it was there was

2582
02:24:47,879 --> 02:24:49,360
Speaker 8: all my care. You take a look at this because

2583
02:24:49,360 --> 02:24:51,080
Speaker 8: we had one of our partners reached out, he's like, hey,

2584
02:24:51,120 --> 02:24:51,840
Speaker 8: can you look into us?

2585
02:24:52,240 --> 02:24:54,160
Speaker 3: A lot of people reach out, like from all over

2586
02:24:54,160 --> 02:24:56,720
Speaker 3: the world really actually, hey can you help us with this?

2587
02:24:56,760 --> 02:24:59,000
Speaker 3: Can you help us with that? So trying to kind

2588
02:24:59,000 --> 02:25:02,680
Speaker 3: of boil that down and see what's really important, balance

2589
02:25:02,720 --> 02:25:05,120
Speaker 3: it with our time and you know what can be impactful.

2590
02:25:05,160 --> 02:25:08,039
Speaker 3: That's that's definitely a challenge. But again, we really we

2591
02:25:08,160 --> 02:25:10,400
Speaker 3: really rely on our on our partners.

2592
02:25:10,000 --> 02:25:13,080
Speaker 1: And you guys will often send you guys will often

2593
02:25:13,200 --> 02:25:18,959
Speaker 1: send your audience outside of Howell to where they need

2594
02:25:19,320 --> 02:25:23,360
Speaker 1: where like you'll alert them and send them to other

2595
02:25:23,480 --> 02:25:26,200
Speaker 1: partners who are positioned to take on that.

2596
02:25:26,840 --> 02:25:31,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. Perfect example. Probably the largest example is is uh

2597
02:25:32,480 --> 02:25:36,160
Speaker 3: crw M Colorado's Responsible Wildlife Management. You've had you've had

2598
02:25:36,240 --> 02:25:40,800
Speaker 3: Dan on here. You know what's going on there. We

2599
02:25:40,879 --> 02:25:45,800
Speaker 3: recognize that they are spearheading that issue in Colorado. They

2600
02:25:45,840 --> 02:25:48,440
Speaker 3: are set up to campaign against it, they are set

2601
02:25:48,520 --> 02:25:52,039
Speaker 3: up to fight it legally. Everything you know, they're they

2602
02:25:52,040 --> 02:25:55,600
Speaker 3: are a C four. So in recognizing that we have

2603
02:25:56,760 --> 02:26:01,520
Speaker 3: made that a national issue, talk to Dan in October

2604
02:26:01,600 --> 02:26:05,080
Speaker 3: or September. They didn't have Instagram. I don't think he'd

2605
02:26:05,080 --> 02:26:07,880
Speaker 3: ever been on a podcast before. He was going to

2606
02:26:07,959 --> 02:26:10,040
Speaker 3: need a lot of help. Where we came in was

2607
02:26:10,080 --> 02:26:11,760
Speaker 3: all right, we're going to tell everybody about you and

2608
02:26:11,800 --> 02:26:14,400
Speaker 3: make this a national make this a national issue, and

2609
02:26:14,480 --> 02:26:17,720
Speaker 3: through all people John knows and the few people I

2610
02:26:17,800 --> 02:26:19,520
Speaker 3: know and whatnot we reached out to.

2611
02:26:20,959 --> 02:26:22,879
Speaker 2: I think he's been on seventy five podcasts now.

2612
02:26:22,840 --> 02:26:26,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think it was through through Yannis

2613
02:26:26,600 --> 02:26:29,440
Speaker 3: is what eventually brought him here. But yeah, we are

2614
02:26:29,520 --> 02:26:35,160
Speaker 3: willing to promote other organizations to We certainly tell people

2615
02:26:35,200 --> 02:26:37,560
Speaker 3: who want to donate to us because they don't know

2616
02:26:37,600 --> 02:26:39,240
Speaker 3: any better. They're like, oh, we should donate to you

2617
02:26:39,320 --> 02:26:41,959
Speaker 3: for this Colorado thing. Or I'm like, no, we can't,

2618
02:26:42,160 --> 02:26:44,760
Speaker 3: we can't do anything there. But who you should donate to?

2619
02:26:44,879 --> 02:26:46,160
Speaker 3: And we should talk are these guys?

2620
02:26:46,160 --> 02:26:46,400
Speaker 1: Why?

2621
02:26:47,080 --> 02:26:49,880
Speaker 8: Because there's a misconception out there and I think I

2622
02:26:49,920 --> 02:26:53,360
Speaker 8: think that that number actually gets misconstrued a lot, like, oh,

2623
02:26:53,400 --> 02:26:56,039
Speaker 8: I don't want to you know, donate to so and

2624
02:26:56,080 --> 02:26:59,320
Speaker 8: so because they can use eighty percent of their other

2625
02:26:59,400 --> 02:27:02,280
Speaker 8: money to our salaries and blah blah blah blah blah.

2626
02:27:02,280 --> 02:27:05,920
Speaker 8: But the actual number is only twenty percent of your

2627
02:27:06,160 --> 02:27:08,440
Speaker 8: expenditure as a five oh one C three could be

2628
02:27:08,560 --> 02:27:13,120
Speaker 8: used towards lobbying and so everything else has to be

2629
02:27:13,120 --> 02:27:17,160
Speaker 8: either educational or administrative or working on projects and so

2630
02:27:17,200 --> 02:27:19,360
Speaker 8: on and so forth. So people take that number of

2631
02:27:19,360 --> 02:27:23,040
Speaker 8: the misconstrue it. So we recognized in that situation that

2632
02:27:23,120 --> 02:27:26,240
Speaker 8: Charles has just giving you that, Okay, if one hundred

2633
02:27:26,280 --> 02:27:28,840
Speaker 8: thousand dollars came to us, then we can only spend

2634
02:27:28,920 --> 02:27:32,480
Speaker 8: twenty thousand dollars doing it. It's money not well spent, right.

2635
02:27:32,520 --> 02:27:35,320
Speaker 8: We yes, we could have did a lot of educational

2636
02:27:35,360 --> 02:27:39,240
Speaker 8: things to make it work, but it's the person that's

2637
02:27:39,240 --> 02:27:40,680
Speaker 8: going to be the most effective.

2638
02:27:40,920 --> 02:27:43,480
Speaker 2: We want to win. Yeah, that's what we are who

2639
02:27:43,560 --> 02:27:44,400
Speaker 2: want We want to win.

2640
02:27:44,640 --> 02:27:48,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are rules basically is there's rules to five

2641
02:27:48,200 --> 02:27:51,000
Speaker 3: and one C threes. But overall, I think you know,

2642
02:27:51,160 --> 02:27:55,560
Speaker 3: as a organizationally, the five and one C threes, the

2643
02:27:55,560 --> 02:27:59,680
Speaker 3: C four is the national brands, the state, the national organizations,

2644
02:27:59,720 --> 02:28:06,119
Speaker 3: the state organizations, they tend to it's it's competitive. It's

2645
02:28:06,120 --> 02:28:08,160
Speaker 3: a little bit competitive, and if one of those orgs

2646
02:28:08,200 --> 02:28:10,760
Speaker 3: kind of takes on an issue, it's hard to get

2647
02:28:10,800 --> 02:28:14,320
Speaker 3: the other orgs to to support these guys over here

2648
02:28:14,360 --> 02:28:18,160
Speaker 3: who are leading that charge. When but you know, for

2649
02:28:18,240 --> 02:28:21,760
Speaker 3: the results that we want, we should all jump on board.

2650
02:28:21,800 --> 02:28:23,760
Speaker 3: We should all jump on board. Yeah, right, because we

2651
02:28:23,760 --> 02:28:25,680
Speaker 3: want to win this thing, right, I don't I don't

2652
02:28:25,680 --> 02:28:28,119
Speaker 3: care who's who's who's leading the fight or whatever.

2653
02:28:28,120 --> 02:28:29,560
Speaker 2: We don't need the recognition for it.

2654
02:28:29,640 --> 02:28:32,520
Speaker 8: Like, yeah, okay, who cares if it's this org or

2655
02:28:32,520 --> 02:28:34,960
Speaker 8: that org that was leading the fight. As long as

2656
02:28:35,040 --> 02:28:39,440
Speaker 8: everybody aligns with the same messaging and the same purpose,

2657
02:28:39,560 --> 02:28:42,240
Speaker 8: let's let's get there. Yeah, let's let's you know, make

2658
02:28:42,280 --> 02:28:42,800
Speaker 8: a difference.

2659
02:28:42,879 --> 02:28:44,880
Speaker 3: We'd like to actually, you know, if people ask us

2660
02:28:44,879 --> 02:28:46,880
Speaker 3: what our mission is or whatnot, I actually want to

2661
02:28:46,879 --> 02:28:50,840
Speaker 3: go out of business, which would be you know, thirty

2662
02:28:50,920 --> 02:28:54,360
Speaker 3: years from now. We have enough public support to make

2663
02:28:54,360 --> 02:28:57,840
Speaker 3: the ani hunting argument irrelevant. And I really do think

2664
02:28:57,879 --> 02:29:01,520
Speaker 3: that can be done through the right through the right channels.

2665
02:29:01,520 --> 02:29:04,920
Speaker 3: We touched on it earlier, but that can't be done.

2666
02:29:04,959 --> 02:29:07,720
Speaker 3: But that's our goal, actually go out of business. So

2667
02:29:08,320 --> 02:29:11,480
Speaker 3: because I would much rather go hunting and spend time

2668
02:29:11,520 --> 02:29:15,039
Speaker 3: doing the things I like to do instead of instead

2669
02:29:15,040 --> 02:29:17,560
Speaker 3: of this full time job which has been basically the

2670
02:29:17,640 --> 02:29:21,360
Speaker 3: last yeah, three years since we kind of started working

2671
02:29:21,400 --> 02:29:21,720
Speaker 3: on it.

2672
02:29:22,040 --> 02:29:24,200
Speaker 6: Or you go hunting, now, what you think about or

2673
02:29:24,240 --> 02:29:25,760
Speaker 6: the issue is not the fun stuff.

2674
02:29:25,800 --> 02:29:29,160
Speaker 8: It's yeah, I was talking the other day. We're I mean,

2675
02:29:30,040 --> 02:29:34,320
Speaker 8: that's my best hunting buddy right there. We hunted all

2676
02:29:34,360 --> 02:29:37,000
Speaker 8: over the country together. Now when we get together, we

2677
02:29:37,080 --> 02:29:40,440
Speaker 8: talk about how stuff instead of talking about, oh did

2678
02:29:40,440 --> 02:29:42,959
Speaker 8: you see that elk over there? And you know, how

2679
02:29:42,959 --> 02:29:43,840
Speaker 8: should we approach that?

2680
02:29:43,920 --> 02:29:44,080
Speaker 5: You know?

2681
02:29:44,920 --> 02:29:47,119
Speaker 3: And we hunt once a year now since we started

2682
02:29:47,160 --> 02:29:51,320
Speaker 3: that's yeah, yeah, so it takes a lot of time,

2683
02:29:51,360 --> 02:29:52,279
Speaker 3: but together.

2684
02:29:52,000 --> 02:29:53,200
Speaker 2: Once a year we still hunt a lot.

2685
02:29:53,320 --> 02:29:54,920
Speaker 3: Yeah together, Yeah.

2686
02:29:54,920 --> 02:29:59,840
Speaker 6: I gotta I gotta give you guys a plug, right, Steve,

2687
02:29:59,879 --> 02:30:03,640
Speaker 6: you I've heard of meat Eater experiences. Oh right, So

2688
02:30:04,360 --> 02:30:09,560
Speaker 6: Cypress Cove, Louisiana, we're going to be down there hosting fishing,

2689
02:30:10,360 --> 02:30:12,560
Speaker 6: doing a bunch of super fun stuff. A bunch of

2690
02:30:12,640 --> 02:30:19,560
Speaker 6: us and Howl for Wildlife is going to be donating

2691
02:30:21,000 --> 02:30:24,680
Speaker 6: to a spot for two people to Cypress Cove with

2692
02:30:24,720 --> 02:30:27,000
Speaker 6: the Meat Eater crew. Oh all, you got to do

2693
02:30:27,080 --> 02:30:31,080
Speaker 6: is go over to howl for Wildlife dot org and

2694
02:30:31,520 --> 02:30:34,080
Speaker 6: get a membership, right, and then you'll be entered to

2695
02:30:34,120 --> 02:30:37,920
Speaker 6: win the trip for two to Cypress Cove with everybody

2696
02:30:38,000 --> 02:30:42,000
Speaker 6: here at meat Eater. Now, if you want to skip

2697
02:30:42,040 --> 02:30:46,400
Speaker 6: that line or the random draw, you can go to

2698
02:30:46,480 --> 02:30:50,440
Speaker 6: the meat eater dot com forward slash Experiences and use

2699
02:30:50,480 --> 02:30:55,440
Speaker 6: the code howel dash five hundred dash donation and when

2700
02:30:55,480 --> 02:30:59,360
Speaker 6: you buy your spot to Cypress Cove, five hundred bucks

2701
02:30:59,360 --> 02:31:02,920
Speaker 6: goes back to howe for Wildlife dot org. Oh what

2702
02:31:03,000 --> 02:31:07,359
Speaker 6: do they put in howel dash five hundred dash donation?

2703
02:31:07,959 --> 02:31:08,320
Speaker 3: Got it?

2704
02:31:08,800 --> 02:31:10,920
Speaker 1: Thank you, Cal and thank you guys, Thank you, thank

2705
02:31:10,959 --> 02:31:13,080
Speaker 1: you appreciate that coming on the show. And we'll wait

2706
02:31:13,120 --> 02:31:15,199
Speaker 1: a couple of months and the whole landscape will change.

2707
02:31:15,200 --> 02:31:16,960
Speaker 1: You can come back on and talk about it again. Yep,

2708
02:31:18,320 --> 02:31:21,240
Speaker 1: you'd be like we won, all right, guys, thanks for

2709
02:31:21,240 --> 02:31:22,240
Speaker 1: coming on, man, Thank you.

2710
02:31:43,000 --> 02:31:45,480
Speaker 5: Is They looked out for Bumpey's pillar.

2711
02:31:47,840 --> 02:31:53,080
Speaker 11: Such abundance and be wooty they saw. But when they

2712
02:31:53,200 --> 02:31:59,879
Speaker 11: looked century later, that value was empty, and the animals

2713
02:32:00,080 --> 02:32:07,960
Speaker 11: where were gone. Now they looked at one another, they said,

2714
02:32:08,840 --> 02:32:15,680
Speaker 11: what will we do now? Well, our livelihoods ending Yeah,

2715
02:32:16,560 --> 02:32:19,199
Speaker 11: but I'll be damn if that's the last one.

2716
02:32:19,040 --> 02:32:25,959
Speaker 5: That I saw said. Our wildlife must be made team.

2717
02:32:28,800 --> 02:32:29,080
Speaker 4: M h.

2718
02:32:31,080 --> 02:32:34,720
Speaker 5: For our lifestyle to still.

2719
02:32:34,520 --> 02:32:39,160
Speaker 1: Be made.

2720
02:32:40,640 --> 02:32:53,600
Speaker 11: Conservation it is called mem.

2721
02:32:50,320 --> 02:32:54,039
Speaker 5: Yeah, this wildlife is worth.

2722
02:33:00,200 --> 02:33:05,480
Speaker 11: More harvest for the market, owned by the people.

2723
02:33:05,840 --> 02:33:11,279
Speaker 5: All all the wild things in time held trunced by all.

2724
02:33:11,000 --> 02:33:16,560
Speaker 11: The agent sees to be managed but not confined by

2725
02:33:16,720 --> 02:33:23,960
Speaker 11: state lines. And later all those sense the problem. After

2726
02:33:24,120 --> 02:33:29,600
Speaker 11: the war was fought and was won. Folks, our food

2727
02:33:29,680 --> 02:33:34,520
Speaker 11: came from the grocery, you know. He comes from chopping

2728
02:33:34,800 --> 02:33:37,560
Speaker 11: and semonid around nothing.

2729
02:33:38,320 --> 02:33:43,520
Speaker 5: Our wildlife must be maintained.

2730
02:33:47,840 --> 02:33:52,080
Speaker 11: For our lifestyle to still remain.

2731
02:33:57,400 --> 02:34:09,920
Speaker 5: Conservation. He is calling me, you have this, wowld it is.

2732
02:34:10,040 --> 02:34:21,640
Speaker 1: Worth Wildlife is a citizen owned renewable resource held in

2733
02:34:21,760 --> 02:34:26,960
Speaker 1: trust by an agency that assesses and allocates the resource

2734
02:34:27,040 --> 02:34:30,640
Speaker 1: in a democratic fashion, with an eye toward people utilizing

2735
02:34:30,680 --> 02:34:35,000
Speaker 1: it but not damaging it in the long term.

2736
02:34:36,360 --> 02:34:47,920
Speaker 12: Wolde must be mad to him for our lifestyle to

2737
02:34:48,400 --> 02:35:07,000
Speaker 12: still remain. Conservation is calling me, yeah.

2738
02:35:04,560 --> 02:35:08,280
Speaker 5: This wildlife is worth living.

2739
02:35:11,520 --> 02:35:13,200
Speaker 10: Mm hmmm.

2740
02:35:13,920 --> 02:35:18,160
Speaker 11: Conservation is calling me.

2741
02:35:23,720 --> 02:35:25,280
Speaker 5: Yea, this wildlife

2742
02:35:27,000 --> 02:35:29,879
Speaker 11: Is worth living.