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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, I'm Kaylie sure and this is too much

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Speaker 1: to say it out you. On this week's episode, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to dive into best friend breakups and how they

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Speaker 1: are similar yet different to romantic breakups. Talk about some

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Speaker 1: experience I've had and share some advice on how to

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Speaker 1: get through them. People understand if you're going through a

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Speaker 1: hard time because of a breakup. I mean, I've worked

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Speaker 1: at places where someone's called out of work that day

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Speaker 1: because they broke up with their significant other and everyone

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Speaker 1: was totally understanding. They were like, oh my gosh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I go deal with that totally fine. And I've dealt

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Speaker 1: with that myself, and people are always pretty patient. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've talked on the podcast before about this concept of

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Speaker 1: heartbreaking amnesty, where after you go through something heartbreaking, you

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Speaker 1: kind of have a period of time where you're allowed

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Speaker 1: to sort of unravel publicly, Like no one's going to

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Speaker 1: judge you for posting like sad Taylor selt lyrics on Twitter.

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Speaker 1: No one's going to, you know, judge you if you

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Speaker 1: don't answer a text, like people will let you get

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Speaker 1: away with stuff you normally couldn't, although I don't know

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Speaker 1: if that's ever stopped me from passive aggressively tweeting Taylor

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Speaker 1: se lyrics. But nonetheless, people are pretty empathetic with that.

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Speaker 1: We know most of us have experienced heartbreak and breakups,

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Speaker 1: and we're like, okay, yeah, you do you, but you

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Speaker 1: don't get that same courtesy extended when you're going through

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Speaker 1: a best friend breakup. And it's crazy to me because

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Speaker 1: I've broken up with somebody after like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: like nine months of dating whatnot, and had people show

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Speaker 1: me more empathy and understanding than when I've broken up

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Speaker 1: with a best friend of like ten plus years, and

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Speaker 1: it's so heartbreaking in such a different way, and it's

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Speaker 1: such a betrayal of trust, and they go down so differently,

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Speaker 1: Like I mean, we really are talking about apples and

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Speaker 1: oranges here, but the heartbreak feels the same. It's like

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Speaker 1: this deep loss of something you thought was going to

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Speaker 1: be there for the rest of your life and then

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Speaker 1: one day, poof, it's just gone. I think it's because

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Speaker 1: we go into romantic relationships kind of expecting that it

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Speaker 1: might end. I mean, truthfully, like, you're gonna have a

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Speaker 1: lot more relationships that end than and you're only gonna

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Speaker 1: have one that doesn't. So it's natural to go in

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Speaker 1: a little apprehensive, a little guarded, and you move a

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Speaker 1: little bit slow. And I don't know about you, guys,

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Speaker 1: but when I meet a friend that I really connect with,

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Speaker 1: I just dive in. And I've had some people that

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Speaker 1: I've connected with just so quickly. I mean Jordan's Jackson,

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Speaker 1: who I had on the podcast a couple of weeks

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Speaker 1: ago for the angiogram episode. I mean her and I

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Speaker 1: hung out like one time, and then we were just

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Speaker 1: best friends. Meet her and Candy Carpenter and it happened

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Speaker 1: that quickly. And when I met Candy playing a song

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Speaker 1: Suffragettes show afterwards, we just started talking and then she

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Speaker 1: was like, Hey, do you want to be like best friends?

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Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, totally, and now we just are.

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Speaker 1: And you would never like meet somebody and then the

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Speaker 1: same day be like, do you want to like date

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Speaker 1: and fall in love? I mean maybe you would. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. There's exceptions to every role, but I, for one,

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Speaker 1: and I have never done that. And so you go

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Speaker 1: in with this this open heart, in these open arms,

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Speaker 1: and you know you might wait a little bit to

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Speaker 1: tell them your deepest, darkest secrets, but it's probably going

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Speaker 1: to come out sooner than it would in a relationship,

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Speaker 1: and so there's this real vulnerability there with a friend,

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Speaker 1: and you're putting so much trust into that and when

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Speaker 1: it ends, it really fucking hurts. And for me, I'm

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Speaker 1: definitely like, I really value my friendships, and I think

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Speaker 1: that when I was going through a hard time where

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Speaker 1: I was feeling really lonely after my breakup, I really

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Speaker 1: relied on those relationships and they sort of, in a way,

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Speaker 1: proved to me that love did exist, no matter how

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Speaker 1: much I was doubting that, And I felt like I

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Speaker 1: had soulmates who mattered even though it wasn't romantic, and

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Speaker 1: it made me feel valued and loved in the way

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Speaker 1: that I expected relationships to make me feel. And I

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Speaker 1: learned that platonic love is It's just as important, if

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Speaker 1: not more important, at different periods in your life. And

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Speaker 1: so it makes sense that it would really feel earth

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Speaker 1: shattering losing a friend. But you don't get to call

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Speaker 1: out of work, you don't get to unravel. People are like, okay,

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Speaker 1: so you're gotten to fight with your friend, all right,

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Speaker 1: what's the big deal. And there's this song by Lauren

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Speaker 1: Aquilina called Best Friend that just came out, and that's

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Speaker 1: kind of what spawned this whole episode because I was

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Speaker 1: listening to it and I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: that just hits so hard, Like breaking up with the

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Speaker 1: best friend. That's what it feel is like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you go from talking to somebody every day and spending

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Speaker 1: all your time with them and living your life with

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Speaker 1: this character that's the main character in your story, and

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Speaker 1: then they just go away. I think also the difference

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Speaker 1: is best friend relationships don't always end overnight, and yes,

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Speaker 1: romantic relationships don't either, but like you know, you could

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Speaker 1: fall out of love with someone slowly, but you call

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Speaker 1: it and you say, hey, this is a breakup, whereas

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Speaker 1: with the best friend relationship, you guys can kind of

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Speaker 1: both pretend everything's fine, and then one day you just

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Speaker 1: realize that you haven't talked in weeks and that it's

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Speaker 1: kind of over. And so that's really hard to come

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Speaker 1: to terms with two. But I mean, honestly, I think

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Speaker 1: I've gotten my heart broken by a best friend more

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Speaker 1: than I've gotten it broken by a romantic partner, and

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Speaker 1: that's a hard thing for anyone to have to go through.

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Speaker 1: I also think there's this faith that you put in

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Speaker 1: a friend that you might not put in a romantic partner.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of hard to explain a little bit. But

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Speaker 1: for example, UM, something I was thinking about when I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, writing out this week's episode and kind of

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Speaker 1: planning what I was going to talk about was a

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Speaker 1: particular situation that I had with a friend. I had

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Speaker 1: been pretty close with this person. I mean, I'm the

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Speaker 1: kind of person who has several best friends at all time.

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Speaker 1: Mindy Kalink said best friends a tear and not a title,

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Speaker 1: and I only believe in that. But this was somebody

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Speaker 1: that I considered myself to be very close to. We

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Speaker 1: worked together in music, and we you know, we wrote together.

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Speaker 1: If I had an extra concert ticket, this is the

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Speaker 1: person I called, I'd, you know, let them borrow my

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Speaker 1: guitar for a year like it. It was. It was

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Speaker 1: a friendship that I felt like was pretty air tight

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Speaker 1: and someone I cared about a lot. And after I

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Speaker 1: went through my very very messy breakup, I noticed that

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Speaker 1: this person was was not there for me. I noticed

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Speaker 1: that there was some tension and sort of awkwardness and

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Speaker 1: basically I got the guitar returned by someone else, and

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Speaker 1: I was like something's up here and I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what it was, and I kind of was just like,

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Speaker 1: all right, you know, I gonna let them do their

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Speaker 1: thing and wait it out, and you know, rely on

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Speaker 1: the people who are there for me. Right now, flash

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Speaker 1: forward to quarantine. This person made an entire album about

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Speaker 1: my ex boyfriend. And I know this because their name

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Speaker 1: was in a song. And you can't script this. I mean, Jesus,

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Speaker 1: it feels like a fucking reality show, right, And it

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Speaker 1: just crushed me. And even though this was someone who

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Speaker 1: wasn't in my life anymore, I kind of had a

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Speaker 1: feeling that they dated, but I just didn't want to

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Speaker 1: believe it, and I just wanted to believe that we

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Speaker 1: grew apart because of circumstances or there was no bad

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Speaker 1: blood there. But wow, that just crushed me. And it

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Speaker 1: didn't crush me because he did it because after we

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Speaker 1: broke up, I didn't expected him to stick to any

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Speaker 1: sort of decorum. I mean, he kind of already thrown

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Speaker 1: that out the window. This was not the first or

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Speaker 1: last of my friends that he would be romantic with.

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Speaker 1: And I was just kind of like, yeah, Okay, he's

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Speaker 1: an asshole. He can do whatever he wants. I'm I

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Speaker 1: can't be bothered by it because that's just what's going

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Speaker 1: to happen. But when it happened with a friend, it

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Speaker 1: hurts so much more than what he had done to me,

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Speaker 1: because that was someone I felt like I respected, and

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Speaker 1: that's like the ultimate disrespect And it just sucks because

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Speaker 1: you know, you think that a friend is going to

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Speaker 1: be a person who's on your side no matter what.

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Speaker 1: You know, you have fights with your romantic partner and

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Speaker 1: and things are kind of nebulous and they change, but

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Speaker 1: like a friend like is a fixed, like concrete part

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Speaker 1: of your life that that will back you up, and

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Speaker 1: even if you're being a little unreasonable, like they're going

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Speaker 1: to be gentle with you more so than a romantic partner.

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Speaker 1: Like I think that when you're fighting in a relationship,

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Speaker 1: things can get a lot more heated, whereas with a

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Speaker 1: friend there's always this kind of like layer of respect.

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Speaker 1: And oh my god, it just crushed me. And that

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Speaker 1: was like a really weird thing to have happened during

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Speaker 1: quarantine because I was just like in my house, locked

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Speaker 1: in here. It was like pretty soon after I'd had Corona,

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Speaker 1: so I was just like, oh my god, the fact

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Speaker 1: that like drama still managed to happen while Quarantine was

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Speaker 1: going on. I was just like, oh my god, this

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Speaker 1: breakup is the gift that just keeps on giving with

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Speaker 1: that ship, y'all, I can't even so. I think in ways,

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Speaker 1: friend breakups can just crush you ten times more, and

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Speaker 1: I think that that is what made that breakup so hard.

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Speaker 1: And this was something that kind of came about in

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Speaker 1: therapy for me, and you know, during all the soul

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Speaker 1: searching I've done since that, and it's that I lost

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Speaker 1: a lot of friends in that breakup. Um I I

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Speaker 1: still am not sure why, and like, I hope this

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Speaker 1: doesn't come across like me playing the victim or anything.

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Speaker 1: It's just something I'm, like jen only confused about and

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Speaker 1: I've sort of had to resign myself to like just

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Speaker 1: accepting that I'm not going to understand it. But I

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Speaker 1: had friends who literally picked him over me and are

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Speaker 1: still best friends with this guy who you know, it

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Speaker 1: was a complicated breakup, but at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: it's someone who cheated on me and was abusive. So

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Speaker 1: how do you come to terms with with somebody that

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Speaker 1: you trusted doing that to you and then having other

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Speaker 1: people you trust pick that person over you, And after

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Speaker 1: talking about it in therapy, I think that that set

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Speaker 1: me back so far with the breakup and with processing

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Speaker 1: it because I felt this deep pain and longing and

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Speaker 1: and betrayal, but like only thirty of that was him

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Speaker 1: and se was the friends that I thought I could

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Speaker 1: rely on in that situation. And I think it's just

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Speaker 1: important to know and acknowledge that best friend breakups are real.

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Speaker 1: They can really break your heart, they can really fuck

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Speaker 1: you up. And if somebody tells me they're going through one,

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Speaker 1: be just as patient as you would if they were

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Speaker 1: going through a regular breakup. And I mean I've had,

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Speaker 1: like I said, I've had breakups with friends that have

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Speaker 1: been friends for more than a decade, more than you know,

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Speaker 1: five years. I that's longer than any relationship I've ever

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Speaker 1: been in. And it just sucks. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: always see this thing on like interest or whatever, like

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Speaker 1: these you know, Instagram quotes whatnot. But it's like, what

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Speaker 1: do you do when the one you want to cry

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Speaker 1: too is the one you're crying about. And that's even

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Speaker 1: more real and a best friend breakup than it is

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Speaker 1: in a romantic breakup. This is where you know, we

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Speaker 1: get to the good part now where I've moved past

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Speaker 1: it and whatnot. But people come into your life for

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Speaker 1: different reasons during different seasons of your life. And I

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Speaker 1: think it was like someone's friend's mom who said this,

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Speaker 1: but I've seen it also a lot on the internet.

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Speaker 1: But it's like some people are blessing and some people

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Speaker 1: are a lesson. And I think lessons are blessings too,

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Speaker 1: and they can teach you something and maybe you needed

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Speaker 1: that person in your life at that period of time

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Speaker 1: to get you through something, and they were a good

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Speaker 1: friend for the majority of it. But they're not supposed

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Speaker 1: to be a forever person. And that's okay. It's super

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Speaker 1: normal to go through those things in your life and

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Speaker 1: eventually you will settle into relationships, whether they're romantic or

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Speaker 1: friendships that are going to last. And I just it's

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Speaker 1: trial and error. But I mean, the memories I have

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Speaker 1: with those friends, I'm not going to let them be

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Speaker 1: tainted by that. I'm not going to regret anything I

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Speaker 1: did because for a good period of time, those are

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Speaker 1: my people, and they helped me through a lot and

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Speaker 1: I learned a lot and I made a lot of

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Speaker 1: really great memories, and um, wrote some songs and it's

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Speaker 1: it's super painful, and it's still fox me up sometimes,

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Speaker 1: but I acknowledge that those are important parts of my life.

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Speaker 1: And I've found friends now that love me the way

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Speaker 1: I need to be loved. And I think that's also

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Speaker 1: another thing, is you know, you have love languages, and

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Speaker 1: you need to be somewhat compatible or at least willing

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Speaker 1: to compromise in a romantic relationship, but also in a friendship.

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Speaker 1: And it's okay to care about someone so much but

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Speaker 1: also recognize that they can't or won't love you in

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Speaker 1: the way you need to be loved. And you know,

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Speaker 1: if if you're constantly feeling like you're putting more effort

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Speaker 1: into a friendship than the other person is, and you're

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Speaker 1: constantly feeling rejected and you're constantly wondering if they're mad

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Speaker 1: at you, like that not a healthy relationship. And you

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Speaker 1: can care about someone and love someone and also put

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Speaker 1: some distance between yourself in them, and that's also important. Boundaries.

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Speaker 1: Almost everything comes down to boundaries. And I think for me,

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Speaker 1: I found friends like Candy and like Jordan's and like

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Speaker 1: Arian Ohm. I guess I've had on the show as well.

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Speaker 1: So many others who love me the way I need

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Speaker 1: to be loved, and they understand, like if I'm going

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Speaker 1: off the radar for a second or I'm not responding

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Speaker 1: to text, it's not a rejection thing. It's that I'm

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Speaker 1: like getting overwhelmed and I can't handle it. And that's

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Speaker 1: like my go to thing want to manxious is I

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Speaker 1: just shut down and can't talk to anybody, which you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm working on it. But they understand that. And I

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Speaker 1: understand that if they are, you know, doing the tough

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Speaker 1: love thing and telling me when maybe I'm not being

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Speaker 1: my best self, that they mean it in the best

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Speaker 1: way possible. And those situations are very few and far between.

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Speaker 1: But I think there's something so amazing about having friends

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Speaker 1: who will lovingly tell you the truth and still be

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Speaker 1: on your side. Like that's kind of what I mean

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Speaker 1: about the taking sides thing is it's someone who will

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Speaker 1: always be on your team. But the thing about a

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Speaker 1: team is they work through those issues and they're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: And that's super valuable in any friendship. Looking back on

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Speaker 1: these situations, I learned a lot. I also think something

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Speaker 1: that needs to be talked about I saw a thing

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Speaker 1: on Twitter talking about how someone was like, is it

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Speaker 1: really just a shared life experience that every girl has

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Speaker 1: a toxic friend in middle school who is like borderline

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Speaker 1: abuse if I don't want to use that word lightly,

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Speaker 1: but like really mean to them and makes them question

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Speaker 1: they're worth And it's like, it is kind of a

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Speaker 1: shared experience. I know so many people have had that.

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Speaker 1: I know a lot of guys you've had it too.

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Speaker 1: But on this season of Pen fifteen, which if you

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Speaker 1: guys haven't watched it, it's on Hulu, it's so fucking funny.

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Speaker 1: We talked about a little bit on the last Episo Stain,

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Speaker 1: but there's this character who comes in and she is

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Speaker 1: like the quintessential mean girl. But in most TV shows,

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Speaker 1: the mean girl is the one who's like bullying you

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Speaker 1: from far away and being like, oh my god, you're

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Speaker 1: not cool. But the real mean girl is the one

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Speaker 1: who like infiltrates the friend group and then turns everybody

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Speaker 1: against each other and then like just it's so fucking funny,

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Speaker 1: but it's also really upsetting. And that's what I love

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Speaker 1: about the show is it's so real and it manages

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Speaker 1: to poke fund at all of it. But in the

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Speaker 1: same vein that a romantic relationship can be toxic and abusive,

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Speaker 1: a friendship can be as well. And I think that

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Speaker 1: I've had more friends play that role in my life

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Speaker 1: than I have boyfriends. I've really had, like you know,

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Speaker 1: only one or two like super toxic romantic encounters. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know if I just have attracted those kind

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Speaker 1: of people. But and you know what, to be completely fair,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest because I don't want to play

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Speaker 1: the victim on this podcast, and I don't want to, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, come off like I'm perfect. I've also probably

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Speaker 1: been the toxic friend to somebody, and that's something we

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Speaker 1: all hopefully outgrow. But when you're learning how to be

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Speaker 1: social in middle school in high school, like you funk

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Speaker 1: up and I can't think of any like one example,

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Speaker 1: but I'm I'm sure I've I've done some hurtful things

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Speaker 1: to a friend as well. But it's it's weird and

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Speaker 1: it's complicated, and you wouldn't think that needs to come

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Speaker 1: up in therapy, but it really does. And I'm reading

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Speaker 1: this book right now called you should talk to someone.

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Speaker 1: I'm moving through it slowly. I definitely talked about this

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Speaker 1: like four episodes ago, so just I'm really busy and

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to read and I'm going through it really slowly.

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Speaker 1: But there was this really cool part of a chapter

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Speaker 1: where it was talking about how we run towards things

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Speaker 1: that are familiar and so growing up, if we had

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Speaker 1: a parent who you know, was emotionally manipulative or or

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Speaker 1: cold or whatnot, We're going to run to her. Romantic

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Speaker 1: partners that do that because it's it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: the devil you know versus the devil you don't. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's so true and friendships as well, Like

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Speaker 1: I mean, if I look back, there's definitely some similar

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Speaker 1: traits in family members as there are in in these

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Speaker 1: friends that were hurtful. But to that same point, the

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Speaker 1: book also talked about outgrowing that and how when you

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Speaker 1: finally break that cycle you can then have healthy relationships.

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Speaker 1: And I think I'm at the place in my life

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Speaker 1: where I've broken that cycle. I have really healthy friendships

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Speaker 1: with really healthy boundaries where if something comes up that

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Speaker 1: you know is an issue or or uh could be

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Speaker 1: an argument, like the communication there is so healthy, and

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Speaker 1: then you don't have the opportunity to harbor these grudges.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that's something that stacks up in

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Speaker 1: best friend relationships, is when somebody missteps or does something

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Speaker 1: hurtful like and then it doesn't get discussed or talked about.

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Speaker 1: It just piles up and piles up and piles up,

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Speaker 1: and then there's just this like climax where it all

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Speaker 1: just it goes to ship and it does not happen

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Speaker 1: overnight by any means, Like I mean, best friend relationships

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Speaker 1: are they literally always go down like that, Like it's

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Speaker 1: just a bunch of stuff that that accumulates and then

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Speaker 1: finally explodes. Relationships are complicated. Humans are complicated. I'm complicated,

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Speaker 1: you're complicated. None of this is easy or I really

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Speaker 1: like to think we're all doing our best, but broken

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Speaker 1: hearts look a lot different. And also if you're somebody

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Speaker 1: who's who's younger and you've never been in a romantic

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Speaker 1: relationship or you've truly gotten your heartbroken, I firmly believe

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Speaker 1: that this still counts as heartbreak and loss and sadness.

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Speaker 1: And so don't let anybody be like, oh, you don't

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Speaker 1: know because you've never been in a relationship, Like if

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Speaker 1: you've lost somebody that you care about because you've distanced

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Speaker 1: yourselves or whatnot. That's still that's still break up. So

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Speaker 1: take care of yourself, take care of your friends. Notice

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Speaker 1: the red flags and those toxic friendships, and then as

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Speaker 1: you grow, go towards friendships that don't have that. And

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Speaker 1: I'm very thankful for the friend group I have now.

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Speaker 1: They're also amazing and have gotten me through some really

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Speaker 1: tough times, and now that I'm in a really happy place,

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Speaker 1: there are people who want to celebrate with me for

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Speaker 1: these these successes. And that's so amazing too, because a

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Speaker 1: lot of times those toxic friends can't be happy for you,

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Speaker 1: and there's there's a jealousy component there. I mean, so

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Speaker 1: much is fueled by jealousy. So much. If you look

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Speaker 1: at any argument you've had, a guarantee you that that

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Speaker 1: definitely applies to several of them within a romantic or

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Speaker 1: platonic relationship. So find people who can celebrate you, find

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Speaker 1: people who can be happy for you. And if somebody

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Speaker 1: calls out of work because they broke up with their

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Speaker 1: best friends, show them some fucking empathy because that ship

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Speaker 1: is hard. Thank you guys so much for tuning in.

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited. I have a brand new single coming

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Speaker 1: out this Friday. It's the second single off of Open

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Speaker 1: Book Unabridged, and I'm really really stoked about this one.

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Speaker 1: When I wrote it in Los Angeles last year, I

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Speaker 1: felt like it was the next step for my artist project,

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Speaker 1: and I'm really happy that it is. That it gets

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Speaker 1: to be an open book on a bridge, that I

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Speaker 1: get to tell this story and I can't wait for

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Speaker 1: you guys to hear it. If this is being listened

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Speaker 1: to after Friday, then you can go get it now.

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Speaker 1: If you're listening on Wednesday Thursday, see at midnight on Thursday.

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Speaker 1: But thank you guys so much. My name is Kaylie Shore.

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Speaker 1: This is too much to say, and I'll see you

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Speaker 1: next week asking questions it out you