WEBVTT - Ben and Jerry Warm Up 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:06.520 I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:12.560 Two thousand eighteen marks the anniversary of the first Ben 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:16.680 and Jerry's scoop shop in a converted Vermont gas station. 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:22.320 Back then, it was just Ben Cohen, the rootless art teacher, 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:26.720 and Jerry Greenfield, the diligent premed who were friends from 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:31.360 middle school gym class. They figured they'd move on from 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.120 ice cream in a few years when it became boring 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:40.440 or unprofitable. But of course history had other things to say. Today, 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:43.800 you'd be forgiven for thinking of Ben and Jerry as 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:47.280 more milk and cream than flesh and blood. But it 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:50.959 was the real people behind the pints that emerged when 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:54.720 the two joined me for a rare joint interview last month. 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:59.400 Our conversation was taped in front of a live audience 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.240 at the Flynn Center for the Performing Arts in Burlington, 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.479 just a couple of miles from the site where Cohen 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:11.480 and Greenfield set up shop. In night. Please help me welcome, 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:29.319 then Cohen and Jerry Greenfield, I knew I should have 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.800 gone into the ice cream business. Look at that applause. 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.720 You've got to look at that, you know, looking at 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:40.400 your story and seeing your lives before you became these 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:43.800 huge successes. You've been in each other's lives for a 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:45.760 long long time. You know, both of you grew up 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:48.120 in Brooklyn and then you met in Merrick Long Island, 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:50.640 where you met in school. Why have you stayed so 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:54.600 close to him? And then you go, I've just never 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.960 run into a better friend to spend my life with. Uh. 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:03.320 You know, he's kind as smart, he's funny. Uh. You know, 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:07.480 he has a real he has very strange eating habits 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:15.560 and well, you know, the earliest memories actually I have 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:20.359 of his eating habits as he was once attempting to 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:25.080 survive on these one calorie candies that his mom, I 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.640 guess packed for him in his little sandwich bag for 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:34.160 school lunch. And uh, and we were in gym class 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:39.960 together and he keeled over. He fainted and uh, you 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:45.119 know it's some kind of strange liquid came out of 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:49.840 some facial orifice and the coach covered it up with 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:52.640 the gym mats so that he could show it to 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.519 the nurse when the nurse came by. In the movie 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:57.240 version of Your Life, I'm gonna have that kid run 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:02.639 up and go, Jerry, are you okay, and he's like, yeah, 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:06.600 what's your name, and you're like, Ben, my name is Ben, 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:10.200 Thanks buddy, And that's where all was born there. Y. Yeah. 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:17.840 The second food memory I have of Jerry is uh 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:23.400 when he was surviving on what he called slop, which 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:29.160 was he would mix together cream of wheat and cream 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:33.840 of mushroom soup and he kept it around in this 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:37.160 jar that he kept in his car and he would 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:46.520 kind of drink out of it. And thank god, Ben 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:59.040 created all the flavors. So that was a slop something 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:02.080 that was consumed with the worse of a day a week. 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:06.680 I I Uh, I was trying to be healthy and 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:10.960 so I was, I have I have no trouble eating 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:13.800 the same food over and over, day after day. I mean, 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.359 it's just sort of that he does not lived to 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:21.080 eat no imagination does eat a lot, but uh he 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:23.600 he doesn't care what he eats. Let's talk about Ben 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:31.680 for a minute. That I love so. Uh. We we 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.479 met first of all because we were both fat kids 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:38.240 in junior high school and you know, uh we were 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:42.240 not exactly in the main stream of social activities. We 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.720 were both kind of nerdy kids, and uh so we 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:49.760 we hung out together a lot, and we remained nerdy kids, 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:56.920 so I think that was that was and you know, 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:00.080 plus we we always did like to eat together. I 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:05.160 mean we would have food together and uh Ben, Ben 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:07.640 was the first person who talked to me about taught 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:13.800 me about uh wet crunch and dry crunch. Ben's really 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:18.200 into textures in foods. I used to talk a lot 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:22.680 about eating through the pain. So food was a big 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:25.880 glue in your relationship, very much, right. And when you 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:30.080 say what's in the ice cream? Is his hemisphere and 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:34.120 what's yours? Uh, well, I used to make it. But 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:36.520 you know what, what's one of the interesting things? You know? 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:38.240 So you think of Ben and Jerry as you think 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:42.240 of all these incredible flavors, and so people assume that 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:44.440 Ben made some of the flavors and Jerry made some 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:48.479 of the flavors. Jerry, what were your flavors? And it's 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:52.960 kind of a long pause at that point we had 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:57.360 for a while. But so you're the business end. No, No, 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:02.760 neither one of us. No, So you know they were 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:07.359 all a really good joint. What are you saying you? Uh, 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.560 it's legal here, you know, yeah, well do you think 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.280 we're recording up here? Ben came up with the flavors 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:15.480 I would make the ice cream. We started with this 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:23.160 little shop right here in Burlington. Uh. And and for 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:27.520 those people who remember forty years ago, about two weeks 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:31.280 after we opened up, we closed the store because we 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:33.839 couldn't figure out if we were making any money to 0:06:33.880 --> 0:06:36.880 stay in business. And we put up a little sign 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.360 on the door that said closed. And uh. We had 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.000 an accountant who walked in the door and said, hey, 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:47.000 I can help you. And so I saved that first shop. Yeah. 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:48.599 But but what I want to go back and forth 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:51.320 that because in your lives there's a lot of Uh, 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.479 you're going to go to college, to medical school. That's 0:06:55.680 --> 0:07:01.559 conceptually right, yea, I'll take it. Um. And you wanted 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.400 to become a you were into pottery, pottery, and then 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:06.760 you end up teaching pottery. Where again, was it those 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:12.200 who can't do you know, well that you can't make 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.720 a lot of money selling ice cream. But but but 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:16.600 you you were you were where did you end up teaching? 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:19.120 That was in the in the Adondos in a town 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:26.240 called Paradox, at the at the Highland Community School for 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.440 Disturbed Teenagers. But there's one section there. I think when 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:31.720 you guys are not in the same city and you're 0:07:31.760 --> 0:07:35.160 not around anything for a few years. Correct when when 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:38.080 we decided that we were going to make ice cream together, 0:07:38.160 --> 0:07:40.520 we were not in the same place and you and 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:41.960 you were not in the same place for how long? 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:44.840 Oh it was years. But we made a vow. So 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:47.880 we decided we were gonna learn how to make ice cream, 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.160 and so we pledged to each other that we were 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:54.200 going to start making test batches of ice cream wherever 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.600 it was we were living and report the results back 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:59.720 and whatever. And but I never made any but whatever. 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:06.760 We also, I think we're clear on that it should 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:08.920 have been Ben. Ben was the guy who stopped doing 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.800 his homework. What in junior high school? I mean, I 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:14.080 was the guy I finished all my homework. I should 0:08:14.120 --> 0:08:16.280 have been making the ice cream. But I only mentioned 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:18.080 that five year gap because it's back in the time 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:20.160 of there art no cell phones and there is no internet. 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.880 So maintaining that friendship, I mean, your friendship is integral 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:28.080 to this. Who we wrote letters, Well, we had a 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:30.840 chain letter that we wrote to a group of friends, 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:35.840 and you know, each person would America enter the their 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:38.600 comments and then send the letter around to the next person. 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:41.720 And you know, it just kindt on circulating like that. 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:47.200 So you stayed in touch all that time, so we 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:51.320 didn't we didn't lose touch. And what was the what 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:54.800 facilitated you getting back here and opening that first place 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:59.920 in Burlington in the former gas station that you opened up? Him? Well, 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:03.800 I failed at being a potter. H No, nobody would 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:08.840 buy my pottery. And he failed at being a doctor. 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:13.920 He couldn't get into medical school. So we figured we're 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:18.079 not getting anywhere in the world, and um, maybe we 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:21.280 should start our own business. Did you know what kind 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.040 of business were you? Right? I mean, that's interesting. You 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:26.280 didn't decide to go into like, you know, the camping 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:30.040 gear business, right, it had to be food. And uh, 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.560 we were originally going to open a restaurant. We had 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:37.000 one friend who knew something about business. He said, whatever 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:39.960 you do, don't open a full service restaurant. If it's 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:43.520 got to be food, open a very limited menu kind 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:47.800 of place. And we wanted to live in a rural 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:50.960 college town. So the idea was to take a food 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.600 trend that was just starting off in the big cities, 0:09:54.280 --> 0:09:57.880 take it to a rural college town, and uh, the 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:00.800 food trends that were happening was bagels or I scream, 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:06.800 and uh, we thought we would do bagels and you 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:09.920 couldn't make bagels either. Could That's kind of like sculpting, 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:12.880 isn't it. That's kind of like pottery. You gotta shape it, 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:15.680 your throw into a kiln, right right, right. It's a 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:18.920 little more forgiving than pottery. But you fle up the 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:24.200 pottery and the bagels. Apparently. I was actually a baker's 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:28.839 helper once and I got fired, but and you was 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:30.280 signed on to that. You like the idea of a 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:34.120 food business. Yeah, because we didn't know anything about anything. 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:38.319 We knew we liked to eat, and uh, I mean 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:41.400 you know when you say a food business, Uh, we 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:43.640 weren't really thinking about a business for us. It was 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.680 kind of a venture open up a shop, and we 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:48.600 thought we would do that for a couple of years 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.520 and then we thought we would try something else. You know. 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.960 We we talked about becoming cross country truck drivers together 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:59.240 after that. So you know, it's not like God that 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:04.120 you you you opened the first store in Burlington when 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:10.200 seven and and what was ice cream in America? Then? Well, 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:15.600 ice cream in Burlington was you had the UVM Dairy 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:24.040 Bar and you had h. Seward's ice cream at the 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:29.160 bus station in downtown Burlington, and that was really the 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:33.840 only Wasn't that enough? Well the bus station was a 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:39.160 pretty seedy place at the time. Uh no, uh clear. 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:42.960 And there was Uptons the pinball parlor. Oh, Upton's right right. 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:45.679 Ice Cream also not for you to go back when 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:47.920 you were a child, what was ice cream and your 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:51.120 child were you? Were you an ice cream person? Yeah, 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:54.319 we always had ice cream in our freezer and we 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.920 would get half gallons from the supermarket and uh it 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:01.840 was just kind of a staple in our house. Kind briars. 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:04.320 Same for you bribes. Well, when I was a kid, 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.480 because you talk about the beginning of the era of 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:09.839 the super premium ice cream people spending more money for 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.240 better quality ice cream. But when I was a kid, 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:16.680 you went to Howard Johnson's on the highway in massive 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.040 people where I was from, and they scooped ice cream, 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:22.120 which was pretty good ice cream. There was carvel. Uh. 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:25.160 You bought briars by the container and took briars home 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:27.760 from the supermarket, or you had the vendors and trucks 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:30.080 like Mr Softy and Good Humor was the big one 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:32.920 on when I could be at Truck's, you know, patrolling 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:36.080 the neighborhood when I was a kid. And then we 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.360 get into the era of you know, frozen glagi and 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:43.400 hogging does and so forth. When you started making ice cream, 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:45.880 did you say to yourself, this is who we are. 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:48.480 We make We just wanted to make the best ice 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:54.320 cream we possibly could. And our model was uh Steve's 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:59.520 ice Cream in uh Somerville, mass What made a good 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:03.280 ice He he was one of the first homemade ice 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:08.160 cream parlors on the East coast. He was making ice 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:12.200 cream in a five gallon rock salt and ice freezer 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:16.800 in the window, and uh, you know, people were lined 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:20.400 up around the block. There was a there was a 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.680 player piano on the line that you could, you know, 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.640 put a quarter in and make the player piano play 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:30.520 and and it was great ice cream. He was doing Nixons, Uh, 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:32.640 you know, so you'd get a scoop of ice cream, 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.280 you know, vanilla chocolate coffee. You say, I want a 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.480 scoopa ice cream and I want heath bars mixed in, 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:44.360 and they would right. They were the cold stone for runner. 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.800 So in the beginning, what kind of menu did you have? 0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:52.240 Was it basic flavors or were you throwing you know, uh, 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:56.800 you know, spare parts in there. From the beginning, always 0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:00.600 started with vanilla, We started with chocolate, We started with coffee, 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:05.360 you know, the real basics. Uh, we Ben had not 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:11.160 yet flourished as an ice cream created. I think one 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:13.280 of the first flavors we came out with that was 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:17.840 a real knockout as far as we were concerned, was 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:24.320 cantalope we we made. I mean, it was great, you 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:26.400 don't I mean the reason why you don't see it 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:29.800 on the menu anymore is, in order to make cantalope 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:35.680 ice cream, you need overripe cantalopes. And uh, you know, 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:39.760 the produce wholesalers in town really liked us because, you know, 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:41.960 we'd call up and we'd say, hey, do you got 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.640 any overripe cantalopes? And they just couldn't wait to get 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:48.480 rid of the overripe cantalopes. And Jerry would be scooping out, 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:53.240 uh you know, the stuff that wasn't rotten, and uh, 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:58.320 you know, pushing up the overripe. Absolutely avoided the stuff 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:01.560 that was rotten. I did not use and you know, 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.200 and it was great. I mean, it wasn't it tasted 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:08.160 just like a candaloup, except it was creamy and frozen 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.360 and uh. But the problem is you can't do it 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.080 in large quantities because not everybody would be there like Jerry, 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:17.920 you know, scooping it out. You know, it's very much 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.600 a hand operation. So you come up with the flavors, 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:27.080 you're like Jerry cut and scoop those five. Well, not 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:31.640 that it was more like that way with the heath bars. Uh. 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.760 You know at the beginning, we were buying heath bars 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:43.480 that were individually wrapped, and uh, Jerry would line them 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:47.880 unwrapped and and line them up on a cutting board 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:52.200 and we had this big two handled knife, uh and 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.800 he would cut him what how many ways, which which 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.120 into thirds and then the other way. Well it was 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:03.320 just thirds. Uh. So we were doing this and uh 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:05.640 it was our most popular flavor, and you know he 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:12.160 was doing it a lot. Uh. And then you know, 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:16.120 we hired our first guy who knew something about business, 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:21.120 and who was Checo Lagger by the way. He uh 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:25.800 he uh was his name Chico Lagger Logger like beer logger, 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:29.080 like beer. He his name is Cheeko Logger, Chico Lagger, 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.960 the fakest name I've ever heard in my life. He 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.920 owned the bar. Uh his real name like Andy Harowitz 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:42.040 and if it wants to have one guy with a 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:47.720 different man, Chico Chico Lager and uh what did he? 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:51.600 He called up the heath bar company and said, you know, 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.880 we're using all these heath bars. Can't we buy them unwrapped? 0:16:55.840 --> 0:17:02.280 And they said, huh uh, you know we have boxes 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:06.320 and boxes full of all these factory second heath bars 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.600 that you know there's something slightly wrong with and we 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:11.440 didn't wrap them. You want those? And he said, yeah, 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.000 I'll take him. And you know it was a great 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:18.240 deal in terms of money. And you know this guy, 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:21.040 you know, he was an NBA. You know, he does 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.240 his calculations and figures out the cost of money and 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.280 the interest in all this kind of crap and ended 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:30.880 up ordering like a ton of heath bars. And he's 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.480 got him piled up in the office behind his chair. 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:37.480 And uh so we had a storm in the freezer 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.600 so that they didn't you know, melt or go bad 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:44.040 or whatever. We had them stored on the top rack 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:49.119 in the palettes in in this walk in freezer. And 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:53.520 one day somebody went to get the pallette down and 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:57.600 he dropped him on the floor before Jerry could cut 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.800 him up, and we opened we opened up the box 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:06.359 and they were broken exactly right. And that became the 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:10.600 new method of breaking up the heat box. So so 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:15.520 for months afything, Jerry's and the freeze are going step back, Chico, 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:20.440 I'll tell them already, tell them already, sweep them mop, 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:23.880 let's go. So you open up in Burlington and it's 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.320 seventy eight, and when do things start to fizz a 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.159 little bit? When do you think you're onto something? What's 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.359 the sign that you're onto something other than you're scooping 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:34.439 a lot of slowing down a little before where you 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:38.879 started fizzing? Why it turned into the winter from the summer, 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.720 and that explains why there weren't really many other ice 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:51.360 cream barlors here in at the time. Yeah, what did 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:54.480 your competitors do during the longer? Do they close? Well, 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.480 you know, sew Sewards was selling a lot of the 0:18:58.080 --> 0:19:00.840 sandwiches and hot door. You didn't want to do that, no, 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:05.080 because that was the sign of an ice cream shop 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:07.840 that was going out of business. They started to sell 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:11.000 all this other crap. What do you do? We started 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:16.639 to sell all the crap we were saying discount on 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:22.920 broken heath balls. We were selling soups and crepes. Actually, 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:25.840 you know, Jerry was in charge of the ice cream. 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:29.000 I was in charge of all the other crap, and 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:32.680 we don't sell any of that. An you just were 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:34.520 deciding what that would be. You with a decider of 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:39.840 that as well, pretty much, I think, I mean we 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.600 discussed it together, but we came up with a great 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:46.520 ice cream marketing promotion in the winter. It was called 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:51.000 POP said Biswi, which stood for Penny Off per Celsius 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:57.040 degree below zero Winter Extravaganza. They all remember it. Everybody 0:19:57.040 --> 0:20:00.680 remembers that promotion at Ben and Jerry's. The older it gets, 0:20:00.720 --> 0:20:03.120 the more you say so, it's a miracle that you're 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:07.120 up here with me today about your great success. When 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:10.280 you tell me that acronymic, what is it again? Pop 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:16.960 said Biswie, penny off pricelsis. She had a screwy way 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:19.480 of selling ice cream. We have TV commercial that that 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:21.800 had pop said Buswi in it. It put up each 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:26.000 letter one at a time. P O PC D. Did 0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:30.880 you win some marketing a boy institution when you would 0:20:31.119 --> 0:20:33.720 literally discount per the weather and that's what saved you. 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:39.200 You think no, no, but but one of the great 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:41.240 things that grew out of that. So that was our 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:44.879 first winter. We were really struggling, uh, and Ben and 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.199 I said to each other, boy, if we're still in 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:51.480 business after a year, we'll celebrate by giving out free 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:55.359 ice cream to everybody. Because we didn't think we were 0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:57.360 going to stay in business and there was really not 0:20:57.480 --> 0:21:00.680 much there. But we wore in busines us after a year, 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:03.439 and that was our first free cone Day, which still 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:09.000 takes place every year. It's around the first Tuesday in April. 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:11.800 You can get in line as many times as you 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:14.560 want at any Ben and Jerry's shop. And when do 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:16.040 we really thinks start, When do you look at each 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:18.119 other and say we gotta take this to another level? 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:23.520 We things started getting worse, uh, and so we said, 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.000 we're never gonna make it with an ice cream shop. 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:29.000 We need to find another way to bring in more money. 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:31.760 And so we started selling ice cream to some local 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:37.600 restaurants that had asked for it. Ben became our roots salesman. 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:41.760 He would go around selling ice cream and then he 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:45.760 was passing by all these mom and pop stores that 0:21:45.840 --> 0:21:48.159 he was going by delivering ice cream to restaurants, and 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:51.200 he thought we should package our ice cream into pine 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:53.919 containers and he could sell it in there, and that 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:59.280 is what started the business going forward. Yeah, there were stores. 0:22:01.080 --> 0:22:03.560 H And what year did that start to take off? 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:07.840 I don't know. We we don't remember this, Okay, okay, 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:10.280 I'm just curious about when do you do? You mean 0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:12.959 right now? It's a I mean, let's not kill ourselves. 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:16.600 It's a huge company. Where did you go public? We 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:20.399 went public first just within the state of Vermont. Uh. 0:22:20.440 --> 0:22:24.359 The idea was to make the community the shareholders of 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:28.119 the business. Uh. We had, you know, a bunch of 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:31.080 venture capitalists that were approaching us saying they wanted to 0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:35.280 invest in the business, and we said, no, we don't 0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:38.440 want to do it that way. We want to use 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:42.639 this need for cash as an opportunity to make the 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:47.239 community the owners of the business. Worked out great. We 0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:49.800 sold out the offering. It was the first ever in 0:22:50.000 --> 0:22:57.359 state public stock offering, and you know a lot of 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:00.560 people bought stock and uh, happily the aock went up. 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:03.120 A lot of people made a bunch of money. People's 0:23:03.200 --> 0:23:07.159 kids went to college on Benajera's stock. What was unique 0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:09.760 about that was there was a very low minimum purchase 0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:12.119 there was a hundred and twenty six dollars. So it 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:17.040 was not aimed at sophisticated investors. It was aimed at everybody. 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:19.960 So the Vermont offering was in eighty four, and then 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:25.280 we had a public offering nationally in and then you 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:28.520 sell the company to Unilever in two thousand. The company 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:31.680 got sold. The company got you tried to keep independent. 0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:34.320 You did, you did explain to people how that works? 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:38.239 Mean you have a board and uh, I mean I 0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:41.440 just would assume a company named Ben and Jerry, and 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:44.439 Ben and Jerry are alive and I'm assuming that they're involved, 0:23:44.480 --> 0:23:47.320 they're calling the shots. How does a company get sold 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:48.800 by your board if you don't want it to get 0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:50.440 sold to you a laver? How did that work out? 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:52.320 I mean, in the end you said that we have 0:23:52.320 --> 0:23:53.960 when things with you to Lever at five that worked 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:58.320 out well. But how did it get sold? Uh? There 0:23:58.400 --> 0:24:00.520 was a CEO who was running the Cuppenning at the 0:24:00.560 --> 0:24:04.800 time who um saw a way for him to make 0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:08.439 a bunch of money by selling the company, and uh, 0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:12.720 you Lever was courting him. They were courting each other, 0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:17.160 I think, and so you know, Lever ended up offering 0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:20.040 so much money for the stock, so much above with 0:24:20.160 --> 0:24:23.000 the price that it was trading at that the board 0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:31.159 had no choice legally but to recommend uh sale. Do 0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:38.240 they have other ice cream popsicle briars Klondike, uh Magnum 0:24:38.480 --> 0:24:44.120 magnum tlenty tlenty go. They're a very big ice cream 0:24:44.119 --> 0:24:50.640 and they've got every shelf of the freezer case. If 0:24:50.680 --> 0:24:53.840 you like ice cream, you've probably already heard this one. 0:24:54.119 --> 0:24:57.720 But there's no better ice cream conversation in our archives 0:24:57.760 --> 0:25:01.199 than with Barbara streisand I would have my kind of 0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:06.080 coffee ice cream briers and sit in my bed and dream, 0:25:06.240 --> 0:25:09.000 go to the movies sometimes on a Saturday afternoon. The 0:25:09.080 --> 0:25:15.720 Lowise Kings. We had the greatest ice cream, and we also, well, yeah, 0:25:16.160 --> 0:25:18.399 you're you're, you're like me. Somebody will say, what was 0:25:18.440 --> 0:25:19.879 the best part of the summer. I'd say, what this 0:25:19.960 --> 0:25:22.480 is this restaurant that has the best coffee ice cream 0:25:22.480 --> 0:25:26.399 with chocolate covered hazels. The rest of that interview and 0:25:26.440 --> 0:25:30.560 many more that here's the thing dot org when we 0:25:30.600 --> 0:25:34.000 come back. The skinny on Ben and Jerry's rolls at 0:25:34.000 --> 0:25:36.879 the company after it was brought out by Unilever and 0:25:36.960 --> 0:25:52.879 the real story behind Cherry Garcia. I'm Alec Baldwin and 0:25:52.960 --> 0:25:56.479 you were listening to Here's the Thing now more of 0:25:56.560 --> 0:26:01.119 my interview with the tycoons of Truffle Kerfuffle, Ben Cohen 0:26:01.200 --> 0:26:05.200