1 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: Two thousand eighteen marks the anniversary of the first Ben 3 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: and Jerry's scoop shop in a converted Vermont gas station. 4 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: Back then, it was just Ben Cohen, the rootless art teacher, 5 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: and Jerry Greenfield, the diligent premed who were friends from 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: middle school gym class. They figured they'd move on from 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: ice cream in a few years when it became boring 8 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: or unprofitable. But of course history had other things to say. Today, 9 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: you'd be forgiven for thinking of Ben and Jerry as 10 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: more milk and cream than flesh and blood. But it 11 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,959 Speaker 1: was the real people behind the pints that emerged when 12 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 1: the two joined me for a rare joint interview last month. 13 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: Our conversation was taped in front of a live audience 14 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: at the Flynn Center for the Performing Arts in Burlington, 15 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 1: just a couple of miles from the site where Cohen 16 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: and Greenfield set up shop. In night. Please help me welcome, 17 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: then Cohen and Jerry Greenfield, I knew I should have 18 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: gone into the ice cream business. Look at that applause. 19 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: You've got to look at that, you know, looking at 20 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 1: your story and seeing your lives before you became these 21 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: huge successes. You've been in each other's lives for a 22 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: long long time. You know, both of you grew up 23 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: in Brooklyn and then you met in Merrick Long Island, 24 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: where you met in school. Why have you stayed so 25 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: close to him? And then you go, I've just never 26 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: run into a better friend to spend my life with. Uh. 27 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: You know, he's kind as smart, he's funny. Uh. You know, 28 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: he has a real he has very strange eating habits 29 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: and well, you know, the earliest memories actually I have 30 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: of his eating habits as he was once attempting to 31 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: survive on these one calorie candies that his mom, I 32 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 1: guess packed for him in his little sandwich bag for 33 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: school lunch. And uh, and we were in gym class 34 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: together and he keeled over. He fainted and uh, you 35 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:45,119 Speaker 1: know it's some kind of strange liquid came out of 36 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: some facial orifice and the coach covered it up with 37 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: the gym mats so that he could show it to 38 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 1: the nurse when the nurse came by. In the movie 39 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: version of Your Life, I'm gonna have that kid run 40 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: up and go, Jerry, are you okay, and he's like, yeah, 41 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: what's your name, and you're like, Ben, my name is Ben, 42 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: Thanks buddy, And that's where all was born there. Y. Yeah. 43 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: The second food memory I have of Jerry is uh 44 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: when he was surviving on what he called slop, which 45 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: was he would mix together cream of wheat and cream 46 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: of mushroom soup and he kept it around in this 47 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: jar that he kept in his car and he would 48 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: kind of drink out of it. And thank god, Ben 49 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: created all the flavors. So that was a slop something 50 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: that was consumed with the worse of a day a week. 51 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: I I Uh, I was trying to be healthy and 52 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: so I was, I have I have no trouble eating 53 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: the same food over and over, day after day. I mean, 54 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 1: it's just sort of that he does not lived to 55 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: eat no imagination does eat a lot, but uh he 56 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: he doesn't care what he eats. Let's talk about Ben 57 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: for a minute. That I love so. Uh. We we 58 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 1: met first of all because we were both fat kids 59 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: in junior high school and you know, uh we were 60 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: not exactly in the main stream of social activities. We 61 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 1: were both kind of nerdy kids, and uh so we 62 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: we hung out together a lot, and we remained nerdy kids, 63 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: so I think that was that was and you know, 64 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: plus we we always did like to eat together. I 65 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: mean we would have food together and uh Ben, Ben 66 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: was the first person who talked to me about taught 67 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: me about uh wet crunch and dry crunch. Ben's really 68 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:18,200 Speaker 1: into textures in foods. I used to talk a lot 69 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: about eating through the pain. So food was a big 70 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: glue in your relationship, very much, right. And when you 71 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: say what's in the ice cream? Is his hemisphere and 72 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: what's yours? Uh, well, I used to make it. But 73 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: you know what, what's one of the interesting things? You know? 74 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: So you think of Ben and Jerry as you think 75 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: of all these incredible flavors, and so people assume that 76 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 1: Ben made some of the flavors and Jerry made some 77 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:48,479 Speaker 1: of the flavors. Jerry, what were your flavors? And it's 78 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: kind of a long pause at that point we had 79 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: for a while. But so you're the business end. No, No, 80 00:05:57,440 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: neither one of us. No, So you know they were 81 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 1: all a really good joint. What are you saying you? Uh, 82 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: it's legal here, you know, yeah, well do you think 83 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: we're recording up here? Ben came up with the flavors 84 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 1: I would make the ice cream. We started with this 85 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: little shop right here in Burlington. Uh. And and for 86 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: those people who remember forty years ago, about two weeks 87 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,280 Speaker 1: after we opened up, we closed the store because we 88 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: couldn't figure out if we were making any money to 89 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: stay in business. And we put up a little sign 90 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 1: on the door that said closed. And uh. We had 91 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: an accountant who walked in the door and said, hey, 92 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: I can help you. And so I saved that first shop. Yeah. 93 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 1: But but what I want to go back and forth 94 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: that because in your lives there's a lot of Uh, 95 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: you're going to go to college, to medical school. That's 96 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:01,559 Speaker 1: conceptually right, yea, I'll take it. Um. And you wanted 97 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: to become a you were into pottery, pottery, and then 98 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: you end up teaching pottery. Where again, was it those 99 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: who can't do you know, well that you can't make 100 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: a lot of money selling ice cream. But but but 101 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: you you were you were where did you end up teaching? 102 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: That was in the in the Adondos in a town 103 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: called Paradox, at the at the Highland Community School for 104 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: Disturbed Teenagers. But there's one section there. I think when 105 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: you guys are not in the same city and you're 106 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: not around anything for a few years. Correct when when 107 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: we decided that we were going to make ice cream together, 108 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: we were not in the same place and you and 109 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: you were not in the same place for how long? 110 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: Oh it was years. But we made a vow. So 111 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: we decided we were gonna learn how to make ice cream, 112 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: and so we pledged to each other that we were 113 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: going to start making test batches of ice cream wherever 114 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: it was we were living and report the results back 115 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: and whatever. And but I never made any but whatever. 116 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: We also, I think we're clear on that it should 117 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: have been Ben. Ben was the guy who stopped doing 118 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: his homework. What in junior high school? I mean, I 119 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: was the guy I finished all my homework. I should 120 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: have been making the ice cream. But I only mentioned 121 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: that five year gap because it's back in the time 122 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: of there art no cell phones and there is no internet. 123 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: So maintaining that friendship, I mean, your friendship is integral 124 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: to this. Who we wrote letters, Well, we had a 125 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: chain letter that we wrote to a group of friends, 126 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: and you know, each person would America enter the their 127 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: comments and then send the letter around to the next person. 128 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: And you know, it just kindt on circulating like that. 129 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: So you stayed in touch all that time, so we 130 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: didn't we didn't lose touch. And what was the what 131 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: facilitated you getting back here and opening that first place 132 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: in Burlington in the former gas station that you opened up? Him? Well, 133 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: I failed at being a potter. H No, nobody would 134 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: buy my pottery. And he failed at being a doctor. 135 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: He couldn't get into medical school. So we figured we're 136 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 1: not getting anywhere in the world, and um, maybe we 137 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: should start our own business. Did you know what kind 138 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: of business were you? Right? I mean, that's interesting. You 139 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: didn't decide to go into like, you know, the camping 140 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: gear business, right, it had to be food. And uh, 141 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: we were originally going to open a restaurant. We had 142 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: one friend who knew something about business. He said, whatever 143 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: you do, don't open a full service restaurant. If it's 144 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: got to be food, open a very limited menu kind 145 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: of place. And we wanted to live in a rural 146 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: college town. So the idea was to take a food 147 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: trend that was just starting off in the big cities, 148 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: take it to a rural college town, and uh, the 149 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: food trends that were happening was bagels or I scream, 150 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: and uh, we thought we would do bagels and you 151 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: couldn't make bagels either. Could That's kind of like sculpting, 152 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: isn't it. That's kind of like pottery. You gotta shape it, 153 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: your throw into a kiln, right right, right. It's a 154 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: little more forgiving than pottery. But you fle up the 155 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: pottery and the bagels. Apparently. I was actually a baker's 156 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 1: helper once and I got fired, but and you was 157 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: signed on to that. You like the idea of a 158 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: food business. Yeah, because we didn't know anything about anything. 159 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 1: We knew we liked to eat, and uh, I mean 160 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: you know when you say a food business, Uh, we 161 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: weren't really thinking about a business for us. It was 162 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 1: kind of a venture open up a shop, and we 163 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: thought we would do that for a couple of years 164 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: and then we thought we would try something else. You know. 165 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: We we talked about becoming cross country truck drivers together 166 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: after that. So you know, it's not like God that 167 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: you you you opened the first store in Burlington when 168 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: seven and and what was ice cream in America? Then? Well, 169 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: ice cream in Burlington was you had the UVM Dairy 170 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: Bar and you had h. Seward's ice cream at the 171 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: bus station in downtown Burlington, and that was really the 172 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 1: only Wasn't that enough? Well the bus station was a 173 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: pretty seedy place at the time. Uh no, uh clear. 174 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: And there was Uptons the pinball parlor. Oh, Upton's right right. 175 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: Ice Cream also not for you to go back when 176 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: you were a child, what was ice cream and your 177 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: child were you? Were you an ice cream person? Yeah, 178 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,319 Speaker 1: we always had ice cream in our freezer and we 179 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: would get half gallons from the supermarket and uh it 180 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: was just kind of a staple in our house. Kind briars. 181 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: Same for you bribes. Well, when I was a kid, 182 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: because you talk about the beginning of the era of 183 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,839 Speaker 1: the super premium ice cream people spending more money for 184 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: better quality ice cream. But when I was a kid, 185 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: you went to Howard Johnson's on the highway in massive 186 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: people where I was from, and they scooped ice cream, 187 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: which was pretty good ice cream. There was carvel. Uh. 188 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: You bought briars by the container and took briars home 189 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: from the supermarket, or you had the vendors and trucks 190 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: like Mr Softy and Good Humor was the big one 191 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: on when I could be at Truck's, you know, patrolling 192 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: the neighborhood when I was a kid. And then we 193 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: get into the era of you know, frozen glagi and 194 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: hogging does and so forth. When you started making ice cream, 195 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: did you say to yourself, this is who we are. 196 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: We make We just wanted to make the best ice 197 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: cream we possibly could. And our model was uh Steve's 198 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: ice Cream in uh Somerville, mass What made a good 199 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: ice He he was one of the first homemade ice 200 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: cream parlors on the East coast. He was making ice 201 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: cream in a five gallon rock salt and ice freezer 202 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: in the window, and uh, you know, people were lined 203 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: up around the block. There was a there was a 204 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: player piano on the line that you could, you know, 205 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: put a quarter in and make the player piano play 206 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 1: and and it was great ice cream. He was doing Nixons, Uh, 207 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: you know, so you'd get a scoop of ice cream, 208 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: you know, vanilla chocolate coffee. You say, I want a 209 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: scoopa ice cream and I want heath bars mixed in, 210 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: and they would right. They were the cold stone for runner. 211 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: So in the beginning, what kind of menu did you have? 212 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: Was it basic flavors or were you throwing you know, uh, 213 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: you know, spare parts in there. From the beginning, always 214 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 1: started with vanilla, We started with chocolate, We started with coffee, 215 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: you know, the real basics. Uh, we Ben had not 216 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 1: yet flourished as an ice cream created. I think one 217 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: of the first flavors we came out with that was 218 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: a real knockout as far as we were concerned, was 219 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: cantalope we we made. I mean, it was great, you 220 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: don't I mean the reason why you don't see it 221 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: on the menu anymore is, in order to make cantalope 222 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: ice cream, you need overripe cantalopes. And uh, you know, 223 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: the produce wholesalers in town really liked us because, you know, 224 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: we'd call up and we'd say, hey, do you got 225 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: any overripe cantalopes? And they just couldn't wait to get 226 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: rid of the overripe cantalopes. And Jerry would be scooping out, 227 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: uh you know, the stuff that wasn't rotten, and uh, 228 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: you know, pushing up the overripe. Absolutely avoided the stuff 229 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: that was rotten. I did not use and you know, 230 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: and it was great. I mean, it wasn't it tasted 231 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: just like a candaloup, except it was creamy and frozen 232 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: and uh. But the problem is you can't do it 233 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: in large quantities because not everybody would be there like Jerry, 234 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: you know, scooping it out. You know, it's very much 235 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: a hand operation. So you come up with the flavors, 236 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: you're like Jerry cut and scoop those five. Well, not 237 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: that it was more like that way with the heath bars. Uh. 238 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: You know at the beginning, we were buying heath bars 239 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: that were individually wrapped, and uh, Jerry would line them 240 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: unwrapped and and line them up on a cutting board 241 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: and we had this big two handled knife, uh and 242 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: he would cut him what how many ways, which which 243 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: into thirds and then the other way. Well it was 244 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: just thirds. Uh. So we were doing this and uh 245 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: it was our most popular flavor, and you know he 246 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: was doing it a lot. Uh. And then you know, 247 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 1: we hired our first guy who knew something about business, 248 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: and who was Checo Lagger by the way. He uh 249 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 1: he uh was his name Chico Lagger Logger like beer logger, 250 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: like beer. He his name is Cheeko Logger, Chico Lagger, 251 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: the fakest name I've ever heard in my life. He 252 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: owned the bar. Uh his real name like Andy Harowitz 253 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: and if it wants to have one guy with a 254 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: different man, Chico Chico Lager and uh what did he? 255 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: He called up the heath bar company and said, you know, 256 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: we're using all these heath bars. Can't we buy them unwrapped? 257 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: And they said, huh uh, you know we have boxes 258 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: and boxes full of all these factory second heath bars 259 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: that you know there's something slightly wrong with and we 260 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 1: didn't wrap them. You want those? And he said, yeah, 261 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 1: I'll take him. And you know it was a great 262 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: deal in terms of money. And you know this guy, 263 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: you know, he was an NBA. You know, he does 264 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: his calculations and figures out the cost of money and 265 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: the interest in all this kind of crap and ended 266 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: up ordering like a ton of heath bars. And he's 267 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: got him piled up in the office behind his chair. 268 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: And uh so we had a storm in the freezer 269 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: so that they didn't you know, melt or go bad 270 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: or whatever. We had them stored on the top rack 271 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: in the palettes in in this walk in freezer. And 272 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: one day somebody went to get the pallette down and 273 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: he dropped him on the floor before Jerry could cut 274 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: him up, and we opened we opened up the box 275 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: and they were broken exactly right. And that became the 276 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: new method of breaking up the heat box. So so 277 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: for months afything, Jerry's and the freeze are going step back, Chico, 278 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: I'll tell them already, tell them already, sweep them mop, 279 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 1: let's go. So you open up in Burlington and it's 280 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: seventy eight, and when do things start to fizz a 281 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: little bit? When do you think you're onto something? What's 282 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: the sign that you're onto something other than you're scooping 283 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: a lot of slowing down a little before where you 284 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: started fizzing? Why it turned into the winter from the summer, 285 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: and that explains why there weren't really many other ice 286 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: cream barlors here in at the time. Yeah, what did 287 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 1: your competitors do during the longer? Do they close? Well, 288 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: you know, sew Sewards was selling a lot of the 289 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: sandwiches and hot door. You didn't want to do that, no, 290 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: because that was the sign of an ice cream shop 291 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: that was going out of business. They started to sell 292 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: all this other crap. What do you do? We started 293 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: to sell all the crap we were saying discount on 294 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: broken heath balls. We were selling soups and crepes. Actually, 295 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: you know, Jerry was in charge of the ice cream. 296 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,000 Speaker 1: I was in charge of all the other crap, and 297 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 1: we don't sell any of that. An you just were 298 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: deciding what that would be. You with a decider of 299 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: that as well, pretty much, I think, I mean we 300 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: discussed it together, but we came up with a great 301 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: ice cream marketing promotion in the winter. It was called 302 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: POP said Biswi, which stood for Penny Off per Celsius 303 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: degree below zero Winter Extravaganza. They all remember it. Everybody 304 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: remembers that promotion at Ben and Jerry's. The older it gets, 305 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 1: the more you say so, it's a miracle that you're 306 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 1: up here with me today about your great success. When 307 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: you tell me that acronymic, what is it again? Pop 308 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: said Biswie, penny off pricelsis. She had a screwy way 309 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: of selling ice cream. We have TV commercial that that 310 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: had pop said Buswi in it. It put up each 311 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: letter one at a time. P O PC D. Did 312 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 1: you win some marketing a boy institution when you would 313 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: literally discount per the weather and that's what saved you. 314 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:39,200 Speaker 1: You think no, no, but but one of the great 315 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: things that grew out of that. So that was our 316 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: first winter. We were really struggling, uh, and Ben and 317 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 1: I said to each other, boy, if we're still in 318 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: business after a year, we'll celebrate by giving out free 319 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: ice cream to everybody. Because we didn't think we were 320 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 1: going to stay in business and there was really not 321 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: much there. But we wore in busines us after a year, 322 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: and that was our first free cone Day, which still 323 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: takes place every year. It's around the first Tuesday in April. 324 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: You can get in line as many times as you 325 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: want at any Ben and Jerry's shop. And when do 326 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: we really thinks start, When do you look at each 327 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: other and say we gotta take this to another level? 328 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: We things started getting worse, uh, and so we said, 329 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: we're never gonna make it with an ice cream shop. 330 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: We need to find another way to bring in more money. 331 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 1: And so we started selling ice cream to some local 332 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: restaurants that had asked for it. Ben became our roots salesman. 333 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: He would go around selling ice cream and then he 334 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: was passing by all these mom and pop stores that 335 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 1: he was going by delivering ice cream to restaurants, and 336 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: he thought we should package our ice cream into pine 337 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: containers and he could sell it in there, and that 338 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: is what started the business going forward. Yeah, there were stores. 339 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: H And what year did that start to take off? 340 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. We we don't remember this, Okay, okay, 341 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: I'm just curious about when do you do? You mean 342 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,959 Speaker 1: right now? It's a I mean, let's not kill ourselves. 343 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: It's a huge company. Where did you go public? We 344 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: went public first just within the state of Vermont. Uh. 345 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: The idea was to make the community the shareholders of 346 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: the business. Uh. We had, you know, a bunch of 347 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 1: venture capitalists that were approaching us saying they wanted to 348 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: invest in the business, and we said, no, we don't 349 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 1: want to do it that way. We want to use 350 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: this need for cash as an opportunity to make the 351 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:47,239 Speaker 1: community the owners of the business. Worked out great. We 352 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: sold out the offering. It was the first ever in 353 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:57,359 Speaker 1: state public stock offering, and you know a lot of 354 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: people bought stock and uh, happily the aock went up. 355 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,120 Speaker 1: A lot of people made a bunch of money. People's 356 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: kids went to college on Benajera's stock. What was unique 357 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: about that was there was a very low minimum purchase 358 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: there was a hundred and twenty six dollars. So it 359 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: was not aimed at sophisticated investors. It was aimed at everybody. 360 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: So the Vermont offering was in eighty four, and then 361 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: we had a public offering nationally in and then you 362 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: sell the company to Unilever in two thousand. The company 363 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: got sold. The company got you tried to keep independent. 364 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: You did, you did explain to people how that works? 365 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,239 Speaker 1: Mean you have a board and uh, I mean I 366 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 1: just would assume a company named Ben and Jerry, and 367 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 1: Ben and Jerry are alive and I'm assuming that they're involved, 368 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: they're calling the shots. How does a company get sold 369 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: by your board if you don't want it to get 370 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,440 Speaker 1: sold to you a laver? How did that work out? 371 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: I mean, in the end you said that we have 372 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: when things with you to Lever at five that worked 373 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: out well. But how did it get sold? Uh? There 374 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: was a CEO who was running the Cuppenning at the 375 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: time who um saw a way for him to make 376 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 1: a bunch of money by selling the company, and uh, 377 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,720 Speaker 1: you Lever was courting him. They were courting each other, 378 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 1: I think, and so you know, Lever ended up offering 379 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: so much money for the stock, so much above with 380 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,000 Speaker 1: the price that it was trading at that the board 381 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: had no choice legally but to recommend uh sale. Do 382 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: they have other ice cream popsicle briars Klondike, uh Magnum 383 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: magnum tlenty tlenty go. They're a very big ice cream 384 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 1: and they've got every shelf of the freezer case. If 385 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: you like ice cream, you've probably already heard this one. 386 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: But there's no better ice cream conversation in our archives 387 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 1: than with Barbara streisand I would have my kind of 388 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: coffee ice cream briers and sit in my bed and dream, 389 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: go to the movies sometimes on a Saturday afternoon. The 390 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: Lowise Kings. We had the greatest ice cream, and we also, well, yeah, 391 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: you're you're, you're like me. Somebody will say, what was 392 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: the best part of the summer. I'd say, what this 393 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,480 Speaker 1: is this restaurant that has the best coffee ice cream 394 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 1: with chocolate covered hazels. The rest of that interview and 395 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: many more that here's the thing dot org when we 396 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: come back. The skinny on Ben and Jerry's rolls at 397 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 1: the company after it was brought out by Unilever and 398 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 1: the real story behind Cherry Garcia. I'm Alec Baldwin and 399 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,479 Speaker 1: you were listening to Here's the Thing now more of 400 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: my interview with the tycoons of Truffle Kerfuffle, Ben Cohen 401 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: and Jerry Greenfield. The company they founded was acquired by 402 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: Dutch conglomerate Unilever in two thousand. You're not involved, they 403 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: were in the company. You're you're not on the board. 404 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: What's that like for you that your name is on it? Like, 405 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: like I wonder is You're still walking down the street 406 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: and people saying I got a flavor for you and 407 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: they still think you're the pipeline, You're the conduit. For 408 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: the record, we love it when people come up and 409 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: say I've got a flavor for you that we want 410 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: that k I was once at an event and these 411 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: these two women came up to me and they said, 412 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: you know how you know, girlfriends are always bringing over 413 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: a pint of Ben and Jerry's to their friend who 414 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: just broke up with their boyfriend to kind of soothe them. Well, 415 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: we think you should come out with a flavor that's 416 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: in a pink container called you can do Better Scotch. 417 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 1: I keep on telling the company this is a winner. 418 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: You should come out with this, I mean coffee ice 419 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,959 Speaker 1: cream with a butterscotch ripple. I mean, this is an 420 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: incredible flavor. They say, oh, we got a flavor department. 421 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: Go back then, go go, go, go do whatever it 422 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 1: is you do. That's what they say. What can I say? 423 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: It's one thing to enter a business because I have 424 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: no business sense at all. I mean, I have zero 425 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: business sense. You know, when people talk about ice cream, 426 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,120 Speaker 1: it's you know, a handful of flavors of which you're 427 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: at the top of the pile, and I'm I want 428 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: to congratulate you, and it's just amazing to have done that, 429 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: you know, to have built a business in the mad successful. 430 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: You know, we had a saying, Jerry, it's easy to 431 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: make it lousy, it's hard to make it right. It's 432 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: really hard to shove that chocolate chip cookie dough into 433 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,159 Speaker 1: the pints of ice cream so that each pint gets 434 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 1: the right amount of chocolate chip cookie dough. You know, 435 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: we used to slice open pint containers four ways into 436 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: four sections to inspect, uh, the number of chunks of 437 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: cookie dough that ended up in each section. And then 438 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 1: in complex flavors like heath bar crunch, or New York Superfudge. 439 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: Not only were you counting the number of chunks of 440 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: heath bar, but you were counting three different size variations 441 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: that all had to appear, right. I mean, there's a 442 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: reason why nobody else was making ice cream like this 443 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: goes It doesn't really go through the machinery that easily. 444 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: You know, there's nothing easier to make than a Homo 445 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: genius liquid or semi liquid like mayonnaise. How many facilities 446 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: do you have around the country to make ice cream, 447 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: like plants that manufactured the ice cream. Well, there's two 448 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: here in Vermont, there's one in Nevada. Do you think 449 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: that's it. That's pretty much refrigerator, truck and truck it 450 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 1: all around the country. Yeah, in the country. And then 451 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: there's another plant in the Netherlands. Yeah. Yeah. And that's 452 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: about the whole thing, right, Ain't nothing else? Uh, we're 453 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: not really part. You're supposed to know, Jerry, he makes 454 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: the flavors. You count the money, Jerry, what's going on? Well, 455 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 1: I think this just goes to show that Ben and 456 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: I are not really on top of things. I mean, now, 457 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: when you license, I'm assuming there's a licensing involved. What's 458 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: the first signature flavor you come up with. The first 459 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: one unusual when we came up with was Oreo Mint. 460 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: Oreo Mint. You got a kind of deal with Oreo, 461 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: Well we didn't. And then we got a letter from 462 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: uh Nibisco, which owns Oreo, and that was a really 463 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: nice stationary then it was, And then they explained that 464 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: Oreo is their most valuable trademark, and they will go 465 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: to the ends of the earth to defend their trademark. 466 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: And under no circumstances could we call our ice cream 467 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: Oreo mint. However, we could call it mint with Oreos. 468 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: So we said okay, and we changed the packaging and 469 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,600 Speaker 1: they were fine, and then you know about I don't know, 470 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: five or eight years later, we got another letter from 471 00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: the legal department at Nibisco, which began by saying Oreo 472 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: is their most valuable trademark, they will go to the 473 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: ends of the earth to defend it, and or no 474 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 1: circumstances could we pluralize their trademark. You may not call 475 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: your ice cream mint with Oreos, you may call it 476 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: mint with Oreo cookies. So you know, we changed the 477 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: packaging again and didn't hear from them until I started 478 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: doing this online demonstration demonstrating the size of the Pentagon 479 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:37,080 Speaker 1: budget in relationship to the education budget and the healthcare 480 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 1: budget and the alternative energy budget, et cetera, using stacks 481 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: of Oreo cookies. Each Oreo cookie would equal ten billion dollars. 482 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,719 Speaker 1: So I'd come out with this, you know, huge stack 483 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: representing the Pentagon, and then you had this least little 484 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: little stacks. And we got another letter from the Label 485 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: Compartment of Oreos UH saying, far be it from us 486 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: to abridge your First Amendment rights of free speech. But 487 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: we're getting a lot of complaints from our shareholders that 488 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: the Nibisco company agrees with the point you're trying to 489 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 1: make about the excessive Pentagon budget. Could you please refrain 490 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: from doing that. You know, I felt that wasn't right, 491 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: But it's their cookie company, right, it is their cookie company. 492 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: But you see these advertisements where they're talking about some 493 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: competitor and they're calling the competitor by brand name, and 494 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: so I talked to a trademark lawyer and uh, I said, 495 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: what's the story here, and they said, you can use 496 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 1: a competitor's name as long as there's no other product 497 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: that will do to make the point you're trying to make. 498 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: So I wrote him a letter back saying, look, I've 499 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: researched every other chocolate sandwich cookie and no other chocolate 500 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: sandwich cookie has Oreos high quality standards, and that in 501 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: other chocolate sandwich cookies the amount of white stuff in 502 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: the middle tends to vary from cookie to cookie. And 503 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: I'm sure they can understand how in my demonstration each 504 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: cookie equaling ten billion dollars, it was off by just 505 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: a little and I never heard from them again. You 506 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 1: can't take on the Pentagon using Hi cookie. That's that's 507 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: not gonna work. So did you learn a profound lesson 508 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: from your dealings with Nibisco and you went on to 509 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: do other flavor Cherry Garcia? Obviously when you did other 510 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: signature brands like that, did you get into more or 511 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,239 Speaker 1: do you get letters from a dear Mr Cohen, the 512 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: estate of Mr Garcia would like to make it known 513 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: to you in regard arts to Cherry Garcia, it was 514 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: a flavor that one of our fans came up with. 515 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: They wrote us an anonymous postcard saying dead paraphernalia always sells, 516 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,440 Speaker 1: So you know it took me a long time. What 517 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: over a year to come up with a flavor that 518 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: was deserving of honoring this guy. I don't remember you. 519 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: Was he alive when it happened. He was. Did he 520 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: acknowledge what you did? Well? His lawyer did you know? 521 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: It was like you know, Uh, we sent him the 522 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 1: first point off the line. We overnighted it on dry ice, 523 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,319 Speaker 1: and his wife called up and said, you know, he 524 00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: can't have any right now because he's in the hospital 525 00:34:54,640 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: and diabetic coma. But I really liked the flavor. And 526 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: then a few months later we got a call from 527 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: his lawyer, whose name happens to be how can't uh 528 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: He said, uh, you know, yeah, it's a really good flavor. 529 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,239 Speaker 1: But we think Jerry's entitled to a little piece of 530 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: the action here, and we we we gave him a 531 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: little piece of the and and now his estate occasionally 532 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,240 Speaker 1: argues over who gave us the little piece of the action. 533 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:33,919 Speaker 1: But you've been politically engaged your entire life, not so much, 534 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: you know, I think it's uh, it's more after I 535 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: moved to Vermont. What happened when you moved to Vermont. 536 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,839 Speaker 1: Part of it was having gone to college. I went 537 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: to college during the late sixties and early seventies. There 538 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: are a lot of social movements going on at the time, 539 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: and soon thereafter I came to Vermont, which, uh, you know, 540 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: it's just a wonderfully community oriented state. You can go 541 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 1: talk to your legislators in Mont Peelier. I mean, it's 542 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:06,879 Speaker 1: it's it's very down home and there's a lot of 543 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:11,920 Speaker 1: grassroots activism here. And so I've become very supportive of 544 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: the Progressive Party in Vermont. There's a it's a third 545 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: party here in Vermont. Uh. And you know, plus there's 546 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: Bernie and there there is there is nobody like Bernie. 547 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 1: Ben and I were surrogates for Bernie in in the 548 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: last presidential primary. Uh. And you know, what's among the 549 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,880 Speaker 1: amazing things about Bernie, besides what he's been fighting for 550 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 1: for his whole political career, is that he is not 551 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,520 Speaker 1: for sale. And you do do not find people in 552 00:36:52,560 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: the political world with that level of integrity. But what 553 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 1: about a year junior high in high school, I wanted 554 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 1: to go uh down South with the Freedom Writers, and 555 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:18,520 Speaker 1: my parents wouldn't let me so. Again during that same 556 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 1: period of time, I grew up on Long Island. My 557 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,799 Speaker 1: parents would every once in a while drive into New 558 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 1: York City and we would drive over the Triboro Bridge 559 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 1: and you get let off, and on one side of 560 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 1: the street there's dilapidated housing and people living in poverty, 561 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: and on the other side there's people living in wealth. 562 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: And it didn't seem right to me, and that affected 563 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,760 Speaker 1: me quite a bit. I think it was Desmond Tutu 564 00:37:54,920 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 1: who said that, Uh, in situations of injustice, you cannot 565 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: be neutral. If an elephant is standing on the tail 566 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:11,520 Speaker 1: of a mouse, you can say you're neutral, but the 567 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 1: mouse will not appreciate your neutrality. When being confronted with injustice, 568 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 1: you have you know, you have three choices. You can 569 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: either ignore it, you can complain about it, or you 570 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: can do something about it. Did you guys set up 571 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:28,879 Speaker 1: a charitable foundation for the company or do you guys 572 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: have your own foundation that you funnel money into from 573 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: individually or from the company. What's the mission? What do 574 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: you target? You're mostly income disparity, the arts. What are 575 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 1: you doing well so for for the Ben and Jerry's foundation, Uh, 576 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: it's social justice and grassroots organizing for that. And and 577 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,520 Speaker 1: the interesting thing about the foundation at the company is 578 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 1: that the final decisions about where the money goes is 579 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:59,279 Speaker 1: done by employees who volunteer their time to make those decisions, 580 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: and they are remarkable. They do an incredible job. But 581 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,799 Speaker 1: I think what's important to understand is that, uh, you know, 582 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: the major effect that ben injuries has and the major 583 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 1: contribution that ben injuries has to society is not about 584 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 1: the foundations. It's not about donating money. It's about integrating 585 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,800 Speaker 1: those social concerns into our day to day business activities 586 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 1: and using the businesses voice. So going back to the 587 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:39,280 Speaker 1: public sale Invermonts certainly that and and I'm also talking 588 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 1: about uh speaking out on social and political issues, and 589 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna get to campaign finance reform and protest about 590 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: you know, all kinds of things that are worrisome in 591 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 1: this country that people have been led to believe it's ineffective, 592 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,640 Speaker 1: and it is not ineffective. If you see something wrong 593 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 1: in this country, you need to scream as loud as 594 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 1: you possibly ca You've got the protest, you've got to demonstrate, 595 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 1: you've got to get active. It's the patriotic thing to do. 596 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,759 Speaker 1: They're they're working for you. I'm in a room with 597 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: congressmen and senators and I'm gonna I'm looking at like 598 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: you know, you're on the clock, buddy, campaign finance reform, 599 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,359 Speaker 1: and it's the lynch pen at every problem OFFESSI how 600 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 1: did you get involved with that issue? I was working 601 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 1: for a long time on shifting a bunch of priorities 602 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,040 Speaker 1: from the Pentagon to social needs and didn't get anywhere. 603 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 1: I think a lot of that reason was because of 604 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,800 Speaker 1: so many defense contractor political donations, So that was one factor. 605 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 1: And then I was Jerry and I were both active 606 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 1: in the Occupy Wall Street movement. Originally it was laser 607 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: focused on economic disparity, but as it started broadening and 608 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:56,239 Speaker 1: everybody who was protesting whatever came into that movement, the 609 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,759 Speaker 1: message started to get garbled, and I felt like it 610 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: was important to folk is and the the common denominator 611 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:08,720 Speaker 1: between health care and issues of the environment and energy 612 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:13,080 Speaker 1: independence and law street banks, the common denominator was money 613 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,920 Speaker 1: in politics. That uh, you know, all these corporations and 614 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:24,640 Speaker 1: high high wealth individuals are paying Congress not to pass 615 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,600 Speaker 1: laws that protect people, but to pass laws that protect corporations. 616 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 1: So I got into working to get money out of politics. 617 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,640 Speaker 1: You see the tax cut to put more money into 618 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,800 Speaker 1: the bank accounts of a class of people typically GOP supporters, 619 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:43,720 Speaker 1: who uh, and if it's if it's a significant amount 620 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,319 Speaker 1: of money for these people. You see, we're Kushner paid 621 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 1: no taxes all these years. And the Democrats. I want 622 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 1: to win the midterms because caause I want to see 623 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,840 Speaker 1: through Trump's tax returns. You know, they announced are going 624 00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:55,799 Speaker 1: to get it through their hands and his tax returns, 625 00:41:55,880 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 1: and uh, that would be thrilling, that would be okay, okay, um. 626 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,840 Speaker 1: But uh, we have some I mean, we just have 627 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,640 Speaker 1: some mind blowing questions from the audience. They're really just 628 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 1: great questions. Someone actually wrote down they wrote vanilla or chocolate? No, no, no, no, 629 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: that was that wasn't a question. We went over some 630 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 1: of the questions backstage to see which ones they have 631 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,880 Speaker 1: not been asked, you know, fifty billion times before. But 632 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,319 Speaker 1: I love this one, which is what's and you hold 633 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,799 Speaker 1: your answer? You actually you go first, You go first, 634 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 1: because I know your answer. What's the longest you've ever 635 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:38,520 Speaker 1: gone without eating ice cream? I have gone months without 636 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,920 Speaker 1: eating ice cream. Really, I would probably say two or 637 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:45,239 Speaker 1: three months. You've got two or three months. And then 638 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,200 Speaker 1: what happens? And they find you in a pile and 639 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 1: I'm a feaster famine kind of. I have a freezer 640 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,799 Speaker 1: at home that's got a couple of hundred points in there, 641 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,760 Speaker 1: several gallons. So yeah, because you never know when someone's 642 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:09,879 Speaker 1: gonna drop by, and you didn't have any ice cream there. 643 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:14,479 Speaker 1: I beat the crap at it. I mean, this guy 644 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,359 Speaker 1: says he's gone several months. All I know is that 645 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,759 Speaker 1: every once in a while he comes to me kind 646 00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 1: of sheepishly, he says, two points less. Night. We were very, 647 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 1: very self disclosing backstage about our ice cream. I mean, 648 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: I mean, what's the worst sound in the world, that 649 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: spoon scrape in the bottom. I didn't even prep him 650 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,320 Speaker 1: on this. At the height of my ice cream addiction, 651 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 1: I'd be sitting I was divorced, I'm living by myself. 652 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,040 Speaker 1: I'm miserable, and what's better medicine than a pint of 653 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,840 Speaker 1: ice cream? And I'd be sitting there watching CNN and 654 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,480 Speaker 1: I'll be like, I know, nine o'clock, it's almost ten o'clock. 655 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,400 Speaker 1: I mean, also, I hear that scrape, he said, I 656 00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:01,319 Speaker 1: like that. Wait an neat that whole thing myself. That's 657 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 1: not possible. What's the longest you ever went without ice cream? 658 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:15,520 Speaker 1: A couple of weeks, maybe one week speaking of speaking 659 00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:19,000 Speaker 1: of getting screwed, and we really probably should come up 660 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,799 Speaker 1: with a question that's not unkind to Republicans. Applaud in 661 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 1: this house of your republican, if you applaud, if you're Republican. 662 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:34,360 Speaker 1: We have four Republicans in this build. I love this town. 663 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: I love this town. There's four Republicancies. What do we 664 00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:44,840 Speaker 1: do if the Democrats don't take control? What are we 665 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:52,200 Speaker 1: gonna do? You know, I have a new life philosophy. 666 00:44:54,120 --> 00:45:00,880 Speaker 1: Lower your expectations, but assume the best. It's a fun line, 667 00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:06,800 Speaker 1: and I'm assuming the best. I think we've already lowered 668 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:19,640 Speaker 1: their expectations as no there's they can buzzibly go the Okay, 669 00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,200 Speaker 1: how do you learn to stick your lips out like Broke? 670 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,960 Speaker 1: I mean, do you do exercises? It's funny you say that. 671 00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:29,719 Speaker 1: They came to me and they said do I was 672 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:31,160 Speaker 1: gonna do a movie and they said, do you want 673 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,560 Speaker 1: to play Trump? Lauren called me, Lawrence, my dear friends, 674 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,239 Speaker 1: you want to play Trump? I said, are you? Why 675 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,560 Speaker 1: do you mind? I don't want to play Trump? I said, 676 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,120 Speaker 1: who the hell wants to do that? And I was 677 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:40,960 Speaker 1: gonna go do a movie. Then the movie fell apart, 678 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,719 Speaker 1: and I called up when I go, all right, I'll 679 00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,520 Speaker 1: come to Trump. He's like, and literally the jokes. He goes, 680 00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:51,800 Speaker 1: it's three shows. We're to do three shows before the election, 681 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,520 Speaker 1: and then he's gone and it's gonna be fine. It's 682 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:55,880 Speaker 1: a big red. So I'm like, all right, what the 683 00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:58,319 Speaker 1: hell I do for three shows? And then they and 684 00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,320 Speaker 1: then um, and I it to myself for the cold opening. 685 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,279 Speaker 1: It's fast, it's brassy, we're firing the cannon. It's in 686 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,200 Speaker 1: front of a live audience, even though we're on TV. 687 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,000 Speaker 1: It's it's like, I want to make this, in one sense, 688 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:14,480 Speaker 1: as too dimensional as the man himself is. And so 689 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 1: I said to myself, you have to raise your left 690 00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:21,520 Speaker 1: eyebrow like this, and then sometimes try to stick your 691 00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,160 Speaker 1: mouth at as far as you can, like you're trying 692 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:31,520 Speaker 1: to suck the windshield out of the car, and just 693 00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,720 Speaker 1: make it completely stupid. I mean to make it silly 694 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,960 Speaker 1: and stupid, because it's not you know, if we did 695 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,399 Speaker 1: the really finely etched one, that's a David Fincher movie. 696 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,759 Speaker 1: So we're not gonna be doing that. Um, who do 697 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:45,880 Speaker 1: you think of the democrat that can beat Donald Trump? 698 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:52,080 Speaker 1: Bernie is he drives? Are loyal? You're to your burn Bernie, 699 00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,480 Speaker 1: well you guys or something else? Now I love this question. 700 00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:58,520 Speaker 1: How do you feel Ben and Jerry's has shaped the 701 00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:07,040 Speaker 1: culture of Hermon? You know? I think before Ben and Jerry's, 702 00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:12,319 Speaker 1: Vermont was pretty much known for maple syrup. Interestingly enough, 703 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:16,040 Speaker 1: I think after Ben and Jerry's, I think they're started 704 00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:22,160 Speaker 1: to be all these other specialty food companies, great cheese companies. 705 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:29,800 Speaker 1: The name Vermont came to stand for really high quality 706 00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:40,120 Speaker 1: specialty food products. I think Vermont is UH is known 707 00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:44,760 Speaker 1: as entrepreneurial partly as a result of Ben and Jerry's. 708 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,439 Speaker 1: I think because of many things, including Bernie Sanders, Vermont 709 00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:54,160 Speaker 1: has seen as progressive and And one of the remarkable 710 00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,280 Speaker 1: things about Ben and Jerry's UH is that even after 711 00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,399 Speaker 1: it was sold to this giant multinational, and even after 712 00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,320 Speaker 1: Ben and I have nothing to do with the company, 713 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,800 Speaker 1: the company continues to be incredibly outspoken about really serious 714 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:15,840 Speaker 1: issues like it's publicly supported Black Lives Matter, it's publicly 715 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:22,400 Speaker 1: supported gay marriage, UH, it's publicly supported Occupy Wall Street, 716 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:28,279 Speaker 1: which is essentially an anti corporate thing. And what's so 717 00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,000 Speaker 1: wonderful about it is Ben, and I have nothing to 718 00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,759 Speaker 1: do with that. It's it's the company itself and the value. 719 00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,759 Speaker 1: You know, it's about the people. You can say all 720 00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,520 Speaker 1: you want about agreements and whatever. It's about the people involved, 721 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:50,480 Speaker 1: and the people at the company are incredible. Um. That's 722 00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:56,960 Speaker 1: been um. The last question I have then a comment 723 00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,759 Speaker 1: is that your wife is like yeah, and then did 724 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,360 Speaker 1: did that play an important role in your success? I 725 00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,000 Speaker 1: just had this image of like, you in bed with 726 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:08,840 Speaker 1: your wife, you're in the kitchen table, like, and you 727 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:18,080 Speaker 1: call Jerry You're sorry. I called Ben this morning just 728 00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:23,920 Speaker 1: to say hello, and then he called me this afternoon 729 00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:33,960 Speaker 1: to ask what are you wearing tonight? And I said, 730 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:38,360 Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna be wearing a button down shirt 731 00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:42,440 Speaker 1: and uh some jeans and he said, oh, I was 732 00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,920 Speaker 1: going to wear a jacket and I said no, we 733 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,719 Speaker 1: can just be ourselves. I mean, you know, And then 734 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,520 Speaker 1: I proceeded to get dressed up in my button down 735 00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,719 Speaker 1: shirt in my jeans, and my my dear wife said 736 00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:02,880 Speaker 1: you're not gonna go like that. So I said, okay, 737 00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,759 Speaker 1: you want the jacket and she said, yeah, that's a 738 00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,600 Speaker 1: lot better. So I had to call jury up and 739 00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:12,840 Speaker 1: say no, well, let me just say that, you know, 740 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,239 Speaker 1: I think it's amazing to sit with the two of you, 741 00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:19,400 Speaker 1: who a are synonymous with a with a product that 742 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,480 Speaker 1: people really enjoy and love. I mean, who doesn't love 743 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:25,360 Speaker 1: ice cream? And be your incredible friendship. I mean learning 744 00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:27,359 Speaker 1: about you with some more detail about what a great 745 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,879 Speaker 1: friendship you've had, but also what great citizens the two 746 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:33,200 Speaker 1: of you are and what you've done with this Company's 747 00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:48,400 Speaker 1: kind of credible. Not there but Ben and Jerry Ben 748 00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:52,600 Speaker 1: Cohen and Jerry Greenfield. They invented cookie dough, ice cream, 749 00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:56,560 Speaker 1: heath bar crunch, and many many more. But one flavor 750 00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:00,759 Speaker 1: they didn't invent is s'mores. That one comes to us 751 00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,400 Speaker 1: from the fevered imagination of a man who might sound 752 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:08,719 Speaker 1: familiar to here's the thing, listeners, our engineer Zack McNeice 753 00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:13,120 Speaker 1: and his mother, Sandra. They submitted the idea of s'more's 754 00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:19,000 Speaker 1: ice cream to Ben and Jerry's. Now every year hundreds 755 00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,760 Speaker 1: of coupons for free pints arrive in the mail from Vermont. 756 00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:27,200 Speaker 1: Nobody asks, they just come. Ben and Jerry are men 757 00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:32,120 Speaker 1: of their word in commerce as in friendship. I'm Alec Baldwin, 758 00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:35,840 Speaker 1: and you were listening to here's the Thing. Technical production 759 00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:40,720 Speaker 1: by Zack s'more's McNeese, thanks to Vermont Public Radio