WEBVTT - TED Talks Daily : Capitalism broke the climate. Now it can fix it 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.759 Hi, It's suckshat as the year comes to a close 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:05.760 and zero takes a break for the holiday. This week, 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:09.119 there's a special holiday Vonus. I wanted to share with 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:12.360 you an episode of Ted Talks Daily which featured my 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:16.239 Ted Talk. It came out of the work I did 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:19.239 on my book Climate Capitalism, which by the way, would 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:21.840 make for a great gift if you're doing any last 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:25.560 minute holiday shopping. I finished writing the book two years ago, 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:29.319 but in today's politics, where the issue of climate is 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.519 hardly front and center, the thesis of the book feels 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.440 even more relevant because for climate solutions to last in 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:38.959 the long run, they need to make money. They need 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:42.760 to be profitable. Enjoy the tech Talk. Next week we'll 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:46.760 be revisiting my conversation with Nicola Twilly, author of Frostbite, 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:49.280 and we'll be back in the new year with fresh episodes, 0:00:49.720 --> 0:00:53.520 including a conversation with science fiction writer Kim Stanley Robinson 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.880 on what to expect for the climate in twenty twenty five. 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:02.880 You're listening to Ted Talks Daily, where we bring you 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:06.559 new ideas to spark your curiosity. Every day. I'm your host, 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:11.120 Elise Hugh. Could the market forces of capitalism help combat 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:14.840 climate change, or was capitalism the very cause of the 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:19.280 global climate crisis in the first place. Climate reporter uckshut 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:23.039 Rathi says the answers are complex and offers solutions for 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:27.120 how capitalism can be used for climate solutions the world needs. 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:32.039 I was at a climate protest and I saw a 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:37.080 poster that said, in big letters, burn capitalism, not coal. 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:40.600 How many of you agree that to tackle climate change 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:45.280 we should stop burning coal? Raise your hands, almost all 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:48.680 of you, And how many of you agree that to 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:52.240 tackle climate change we should burn capitalism? There are a 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:56.640 few hands, but not as many. I'm a journalist and 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.600 I write about climate solutions, and when I ask this 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:02.840 question of people, I get the full range of answers, 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.520 from those who say that the system that got us 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:09.359 into this mess can never get us out of it, 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:12.919 to those who say that the only answer is to 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:17.640 unleash market forces for the innovations we need. But who 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:21.600 is right? I wanted to find the answer for myself, 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.160 so I started on the rooftop of my childhood home 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:29.080 in India. I wanted to get solar panels for my parents. 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.600 It took two days to get quotes, two weeks to 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:36.080 have those shiny devices up on the roof, ready to 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:40.400 capture the sun's energy. The payback was quick. Electricity bills 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:44.200 fell and my parents have recovered the investment in five years. 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.520 For the next fifteen years they can enjoy solar power 0:02:48.800 --> 0:02:55.040 for free. So what has capitalism got to do with it? Well, 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:59.639 India did not invent the technologies that go into solar panels. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.440 Even today, India manufactures only a small fraction of what 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.839 it deploys, and yet a country with less than three 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:11.000 thousand dollars of income per person per year is able 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.720 to benefit from what is now one of the world's 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:19.280 cheapest sources of energy. This has happened because profit seeking 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:21.960 companies want to sell all of us more and more 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:27.720 solar panels. But it has happened because governments created that 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:33.520 market through subsidies and regulations. We know the more we build, 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.640 the cheaper it gets. And it's not just the story 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:40.640 of solar. Between twenty nine and twenty nineteen, the price 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:46.320 of solar fell ninety percent, win seventy percent, lithemian batteries 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:51.080 eighty five percent. This is what I call climate capitalism. 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:56.160 Climate emergency is forcing governments and businesses to change how 0:03:56.200 --> 0:04:01.360 capitalism works, to use its forces for creating the solutions 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:04.840 we need, rather than making the problem worse. And look, 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:09.840 it's not happening everywhere or at the pace which we need. 0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:14.760 There are still companies that are profiting from pollution. However, 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:18.720 in country after country where I've had a chance to report, 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:23.360 I've found that a combination of people, policy, and technology, 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:28.400 when they come together, climate solutions do work. Now, the 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:32.479 primary motivation to deploy these solutions does not have to 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:36.640 be tackling climate change. Other pressing issues such as air pollution, 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:42.320 or energy security or global competitiveness can garner even more support. 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:46.080 How exactly, let me tell you the story of Wangam. 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:50.000 You've probably never heard of him, but he has done 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:53.920 more for the global rise of electric cars than Elon Musk. 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:57.000 Juan was born in China. He trained as an auto 0:04:57.040 --> 0:05:02.480 engineer before moving to Germany and working for Audi. There, 0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:06.520 he saw the lifestyle the Germans lived and realized that 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:09.760 perhaps Chinese people may never be able to experience it. 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:15.600 That's because in two thousand, China burned about one barrel 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:20.159 of oil per person per year. Germans burned twelve times 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:22.599 as much. So he made the case to the Chinese 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:26.000 leadership that the country needed to work on an alternative, 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.200 and that he was willing to lead the charge. So 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.520 he was given a chance to work on a government program. 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:36.279 One's team, in a period of eight years, built hundreds 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:38.760 of electric cars and buses that were used at the 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:43.679 Beijing Olympics. In those same eight years, the country's oil 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:48.400 built ballooned and its cities became globally infamous for air pollution. 0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:53.600 But One had shown that an alternative could work. If 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:58.200 China could scale the manufacturing of electric cars, air pollution 0:05:58.279 --> 0:06:03.120 would be cut, all import would be cut, and most importantly, 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:07.440 China would create a new industry that could compete with 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:11.839 other countries. So One was made the science minister and 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:14.599 the government started giving out tens of billions of dollars 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:20.080 in subsidies for the manufacturing of electric cars and lithemian batteries. 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:23.520 The government also started putting regulations to make it harder 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:27.000 to buy fossil fuel cars. Even today, if you're in 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.559 Shanghai and you want to buy a gasoline power car, 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:33.720 you have to enter a lottery and win it. If 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:35.760 you want an electric car, you can just go to 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:39.440 a showroom and buy one. The Chinese government provided direction, 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:43.720 but it was the practitioners of capitalism that made a 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.240 small electric car industry into the global giant that it 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:52.520 is today. One of those investors was Warren Buffett. He 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:56.599 invested in a little known company then called BYD. Today 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:01.200 BYD sells more electric cars than Tesla. Now you might 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:06.159 think what China did cannot be replicated by democracies, but 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:10.960 as it happens, China took inspiration from the paragon of capitalism, 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:16.480 the USA. Throughout the previous century, the US has used 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:20.720 the instruments of government to redirect investments toward national priorities. 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.960 Take the semiconductor industry the reason why California is home 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:31.120 to Silicon Valley. It was created with generous contracts from 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:36.680 the Department of Defense. It's also a similar case for biotech, 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:41.680 for airlines, for the Internet. All of them have fingerprints 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:46.400 of the government from its birth. In fact, China's electric 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:51.920 vehicle policy is a modified version of California's zero emissions 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:57.120 vehicle mandate. That policy was crucial in keeping Tesla afloat 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:01.240 by providing subsidies. But that China has a lead on 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:04.640 all sorts of green technologies, the US is being forced 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:07.440 to catch up. The inflation reduction Act, passed in twenty 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:10.960 twenty two, is one response. It will see the US 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:14.880 government provide hundreds of billions of dollars of subsidies towards 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:19.000 all kinds of solutions, from green hydrogen to heat pounds 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:25.920 that will be multiplied by matching private investment. But climate 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:30.200 capitalism isn't just about putting government subsidies to work. That's 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.720 because the climate crisis is the greatest market failure of 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:39.480 all time. Governments around the world have allowed corporations to 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:44.199 pollute for free, and all that pollution is causing damages 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:48.200 to all of us in the form of climate impacts, health, inequalities, 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:53.720 dislocation of communities. In some parts of the world, leaders 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:59.000 are starting to correct that mistake. Europe has put a 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:03.560 price on pollution and created legally binding targets that has 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:08.160 helped the continent cut its carbon footprint faster than any other. 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:13.160 It's also changed how businesses operate in Europe. The Danish 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.000 Island Natural Gas Company was founded in nineteen seventy two. 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:20.480 For forty years, it dug up fossil fuels. Then Denmark 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:24.200 adopted a carbon price and a climate law, and suddenly 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:29.640 its business model became implausible. Today, you know that company 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:33.840 has orstered. It transitioned away from fossil fuels starting in 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:36.679 two thousand and nine, and it has become the largest 0:09:36.720 --> 0:09:42.360 developer of offshore wind power. This hasn't been a smooth ride. 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:45.760 There just aren't as many success stories as the world needs. 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:50.080 That's because the climate challenge is really complicated. India has 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:54.360 an ambitious renewables goal, but it's falling behind. Europe has 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:58.160 seen job losses because its carbon price has been too high. 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:00.880 That has caused some industries to shut down and move 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:03.840 to other parts where there isn't a carbon price, and 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:08.440 China's emissions last year rose despite a record clean energy 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:13.240 build out. For climate capitalism to work, governments and businesses 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:17.839 need to be flexible. They need to recognize when there 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:21.640 are policies that require certainty, but if they're not working, 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:26.040 then they must be changed. India is now doubling down 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:31.520 on solar with batteries because it's seeing rise in electricity demand. 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:35.120 Europe has introduced a carbon tariff that's going to put 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:39.599 a price on pollution on imports that will level the 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:44.839 playing field for domestic industry and stem job losses. And 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:48.160 some experts think that if China can continue its clean 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:51.079 energy build out at the same pace its emissions may 0:10:51.080 --> 0:10:55.920 have peaked last year. Now what's remarkable is that some 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:58.880 businesses are saying that it's in their self interest to 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:03.559 act on climate change with or without regulations. So far, 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:07.120 we've looked at big economy wide changes. Now let's think 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:10.040 about something as simple as ice cream. You would think 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:12.280 that during a heat wave and an ice cream maker 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:15.280 will turn big profits selling lots and lots of ice cream. 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.640 But heat waves are becoming so extreme that people are 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.800 choosing to stay at home instead. At the same time, 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:25.040 small hold of farmers that are the supply chain of 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:29.600 ice cream makers are seeing their productivity fall. That's because 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:33.800 of intense heat, drought, floods. It means the cost of 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.720 making ice cream is going up. It's a double whammy, 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:44.040 lower sales, higher costs. Increasingly, businesses are recognizing that there 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:47.079 are fewer profits to be made on a planet on fire. 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.240 So let's go back to that poster. Is the answer 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:55.640 to tackle climate change to burn capitalism, not coal. I 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.840 hope the examples I've shared show that the problem is 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:04.240 in capitalism, but how it's been allowed to run. We 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.800 only have a few decades left to get to zero emissions. 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:12.080 The fastest way to get there is to change capitalism. 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:16.559 How to do it through a combination of people, policy 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:24.280 and technology. Dedicated people, smarter policies and cheaper technologies. That 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.280 is how you'll get businesses to focus on the solutions 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:32.160 the world needs. That is how people like my parents 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:34.440 in India and all of us around the world will 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:37.720 get access to those solutions. And that is how the 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:41.400 world will finally stop burning coal and all other fossil fuelds. 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:42.120 Thank you. 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:53.000 That was Ukshatrathi at Ted's Countdown Bloomberg Green Festival in 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.280 twenty twenty four. If you're curious about Ted's curation, find 0:12:56.280 --> 0:12:59.640 out more at ted dot com slash curation guidelines. And 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.280 that's it for today. Ted Talks Daily is part of 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.280 the Ted Audio Collective. This episode was produced and edited 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:10.040 by our team Martha Estefanos, Oliver Friedman, Brian Green, Autumn Thompson, 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:14.079 and Alejandra Salazar. It was mixed by Christopher Faizy Bogan 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:18.920 additional support from Emma Tobner and Daniella Balaaiso. I'm Elise Hugh. 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.680 I'll be back tomorrow with a fresh idea for your feed, 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:23.319 Thanks for listening. 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.040 Thank you for coming to my ted Talk, and thanks 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:30.880 to Elise Hugh and the Ted Talk's daily podcast team. 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:33.800 Do check out their daily feed. Each day the show 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:36.880 brings you a new idea that might just change the future, 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:41.520 and it's all under fifteen minutes. I am Akshatrati. Back soon.