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Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 2: I always want to leave folks with this idea that

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Speaker 2: the black women are continuing to be at the vanguard,

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Speaker 2: and that they are building these networks and relationships and

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Speaker 2: kind of collective leadership that I think is really important

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Speaker 2: for us to recognize and to learn from and to

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Speaker 2: recognize that the strength of not waiting for permission or

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Speaker 2: a charge or a title.

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Speaker 3: Hey lady, have you ever felt like the world just

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Speaker 3: doesn't get you? Well, we do.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, the podcast dedicated to uplifting

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Speaker 1: and empowering women like you.

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Speaker 3: We're your hosts, Doctor Dominique Grussard and educator and psychologists.

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Speaker 1: And Terry Lomax, a techy and transformational speaker.

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Speaker 3: Join us every week for authentic conversations about everything from

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Speaker 3: fibroids of fake friends as we create space for black

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Speaker 3: women to just.

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Speaker 1: B Before we dive in, make sure you hit that

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Speaker 1: follow button and leave us a quick five star review. Lady,

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Speaker 1: we are black founded and black owned, and your support

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Speaker 1: will help us reach even more women like you.

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Speaker 3: Now, let's get into this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 4: It's doctor dom here from the Cultivating her Space podcast.

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Speaker 4: Are you currently a resident of the state of California

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Speaker 4: and contemplating starting your therapy journey. Well, if so, please

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Speaker 4: reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com.

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Speaker 4: That's d R D O M I N I q

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Speaker 4: U E B R O U ss ar D dot

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Speaker 4: com to schedule a free fifteen minute consultation. I look

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Speaker 4: forward to hearing from.

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Speaker 1: You, lady. We have a very important episode for you

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Speaker 1: today and two very special guests. And I want to

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Speaker 1: start by saying this personally as a mother raising a

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Speaker 1: black child who will start school soon. Oh my goodness,

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Speaker 1: I feel so privileged to be sitting in conversation with

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Speaker 1: these two scholars that we have here today. But before

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Speaker 1: we dive in, I do want to say this upfront.

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Speaker 1: Their bios are impressive. They're extensive, and with the time

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Speaker 1: that we have today, we likely won't do them full

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Speaker 1: justice in the intro, so please check the show notes,

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Speaker 1: do your googles, take your time with their work. But

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Speaker 1: what makes today's conversation especially powerful is how these two

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Speaker 1: guests show up together and the lenses they bring to

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Speaker 1: this moment. Doctor ann Ishimaru is an award winning scholar

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Speaker 1: and educator whose work focuses on how schools can partner

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Speaker 1: with families and communities, not talk at them, not manage them,

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Speaker 1: but genuinely share power with them. In addition to many

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Speaker 1: peer reviewed articles and the top tier educational research journals,

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Speaker 1: she is also the author of Just Schools, Building Equitable

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Speaker 1: Collaborations with Families and Communities. We are also joined by

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Speaker 1: doctor Dakota Irbi, an educator, author, father, and community builder.

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Speaker 1: His work is centered on advancing education, equity, and justice

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Speaker 1: for black and brown children, both inside and outside of

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Speaker 1: the school. Be sure to check out their book Doing

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Speaker 1: the Work of Equity, Leadership for Justice and Systems Change.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk a bit about that today, and I also

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Speaker 1: want to say that doctor Irbi is a professor at

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Speaker 1: the University of Illinois, Chicago and he teaches in the

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Speaker 1: College of Education's top ranked Urban Education Leadership Program. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Ishimaru and doctor Irby, welcome to Cultivating her Space. We

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Speaker 1: are so excited to have you today.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.

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Speaker 3: We are definitely looking forward to this much needed, very

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Speaker 3: important conversation and so but we are going to dive

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Speaker 3: in with our quote of the day and our quote

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Speaker 3: of the day comes from another education scholar, doctor Tyrone Howard,

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Speaker 3: and the quote is equality is the goal. Equity is

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Speaker 3: the mechanism or process we will use to get there.

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Speaker 3: So I'll read that quote one more time for the

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Speaker 3: folks in the back to make sure you heard it

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Speaker 3: and understood the difference between those words. Equality is the goal,

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Speaker 3: equity is the mechanism or process we will use to

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Speaker 3: get there.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 3: So hearing doctor Howard's quote and thinking about the work

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Speaker 3: that you all do, the extensive research, the years of

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Speaker 3: research that you all have put into understanding equity and leadership,

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Speaker 3: what comes up for you when you hear these words.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, thank you for the question. I am a

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Speaker 5: Tyrone Howard fan. I actually he and I were both

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Speaker 5: on a program this past summer at Ohio State University

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Speaker 5: and we were staying in the same hotel, so we

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Speaker 5: got to chop it up a little bit at the bar.

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Speaker 5: It was it was cool, it was very nice. It's

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Speaker 5: my most extensive conversation I've had with him. So thank

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Speaker 5: you for sharing his quote. What comes to mind for

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Speaker 5: me is process. That's the word that sticks out to

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Speaker 5: me of how we get to where we want to be,

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Speaker 5: you know, I think mechanism and process and even in

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Speaker 5: our own research and in our book about you know,

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Speaker 5: equity leadership, we really focus a lot on practices and

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Speaker 5: processes to try to make sure that folks are understanding that,

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Speaker 5: you know, you have to do the work as our

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Speaker 5: time of our book says, you have to do the work.

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Speaker 6: It's something that's in motion, it's something that's an action.

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Speaker 5: It's actually action oriented. So that's what really comes to

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Speaker 5: mind when I hear the quote. Is a strong, clear,

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Speaker 5: concise way to suggest and to state that equity is

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Speaker 5: something that's supposed to be actionable that will get us

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Speaker 5: to a place that, you know, frankly, and maybe we'll

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Speaker 5: get into this in a conversation, we haven't been at

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Speaker 5: a place of equality, and you know, in this current time,

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Speaker 5: it seems like we're regressing a little bit from moving

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Speaker 5: in that direction.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and doctor Howard is actually alumni of the University

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Speaker 2: of Washington where I'm at to so lots of connections there.

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Speaker 2: I really appreciate this, you know, sort of like getting

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Speaker 2: us to think carefully about language and how we can

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Speaker 2: sometimes throw around different words without really thinking about what

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Speaker 2: they mean, both in terms of the distinction between equality

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Speaker 2: and equity and really how we think about what is

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Speaker 2: the aim and then what are we going to do

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Speaker 2: to get there? And also sort of like recognizing that

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Speaker 2: we're historically we're not starting from a blank sleet, So

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Speaker 2: recognizing that there are all of these historical structures and

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Speaker 2: policies and systems and practices that are rooted in sort

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Speaker 2: of these foundational like white supremacist dynamics that are shaping

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Speaker 2: where we are now and that we are not and

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Speaker 2: have never had a place of equality. So equity is

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Speaker 2: this kind of ongoing necessity. And at the same time

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Speaker 2: recognize that the word equity has gotten weaponized and denonized

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Speaker 2: in this moment, and you know, there's lots of debate.

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Speaker 2: You know, you see both universities and K twelve schools

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Speaker 2: often are trying to think about do we need to

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Speaker 2: take that word out? There are conferences and professional associations

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Speaker 2: that are starting to take that word out, and so

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Speaker 2: that was one of the things that we were really

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Speaker 2: clear about needing to keep in as we got close

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Speaker 2: to the publication of this book. That was really important

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Speaker 2: to us because that's really been a central focus for

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Speaker 2: the educators and when they talk about doing the work.

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Speaker 2: You can't really separate this idea of trying to move

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Speaker 2: into action to address these historically rooted inequities. That that's

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Speaker 2: really what the has been and continues to be.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for that. Those were such powerful overviews,

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Speaker 1: and that was such a great grounding quote to start

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Speaker 1: the conversation and just to further ground us in this

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Speaker 1: conversation for the listener. As you both know, right, our

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Speaker 1: community is made up of black women from around the world, right,

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Speaker 1: different countries, cultures, education systems. And the thing is many

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Speaker 1: of us to share similar experiences right when it comes

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Speaker 1: to school, and we have some of the same questions, hopes, concerns.

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Speaker 1: And so if you were able to share one key takeaway,

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Speaker 1: one thing that you think the black woman listening to

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Speaker 1: this episode should walk away with holding in her heart

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Speaker 1: and mind, what would that be for each of you?

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Speaker 2: I want to say, you know that the black women

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Speaker 2: that we studied, actually they were at the vanguard of

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Speaker 2: the equity leadership. And that's not new. That's long That's

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Speaker 2: been happening long before the period of time that we

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Speaker 2: were looking at, long before our current moment, and it

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Speaker 2: will continue on. And I think one of the things

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Speaker 2: that I have really been inspired by in the leadership

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Speaker 2: of those black women is that they're not waiting for

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Speaker 2: anybody to give them permission, to give them a title,

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Speaker 2: to give them a charge, that they have always and

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Speaker 2: continue to be leading with their communities and making change

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Speaker 2: even when the conditions are very challenging. They're getting you know,

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Speaker 2: we say, vitriolic resistance and pushback, and again that also

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Speaker 2: is not new to this current moment. It's intensified for sure,

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Speaker 2: but that's something that they face all across the way.

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Speaker 2: And so I just you know, I always want to

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Speaker 2: leave folks with this idea that the black women are

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Speaker 2: continuing to be at the vanguard and that they are

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Speaker 2: building these networks and relationships and kind of collective leadership

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Speaker 2: that I think is really important for us to recognize

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Speaker 2: and to learn from and to recognize that the strength

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Speaker 2: of not waiting for permission or a charge or a title.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, for sure. I think what comes to mind

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Speaker 5: for me is probably not like a statement or of like,

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Speaker 5: you know, do this or don't do that.

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Speaker 6: I think it's more a.

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Speaker 5: Way to encourage black women who were engaged in this

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Speaker 5: kind of leadership work. And I mean, I would consider mothers,

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Speaker 5: like black mothers, people who are raising black children, to

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Speaker 5: kind of figure out a balance or ask yourself the

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Speaker 5: question about how much to give versus and maybe it's

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Speaker 5: not a versus, it's an and it's not an either

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Speaker 5: or it's an end. How much to give and how

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Speaker 5: much to allow oneself to be poured into as well.

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Speaker 6: I think that one of the.

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Speaker 5: You know, one of the challenges of writing this book

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Speaker 5: was listening and observing and understanding black women's experiences. You know,

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Speaker 5: I was raised by a black women, black sisters. You know,

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Speaker 5: my wife is black, and so I think a lot

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Speaker 5: of what I was thinking about was the amount of

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Speaker 5: racial battle fatigue and the very real told that black

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Speaker 5: women experience both informal leadership roles but also like leading

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Speaker 5: for their families. And I think that in particular for

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Speaker 5: black women it's a unique. It's unique because they're dealing

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Speaker 5: with you know, race, gender, anti blackness, specifically even amongst

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Speaker 5: other women of color. And sometimes you know, in one

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Speaker 5: of our chapters, depending on what you know, the person

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Speaker 5: is focused. And also for example, in the first chapter

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Speaker 5: of our book, doctor lets Read writes about how she

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Speaker 5: was trying to advance the LGBTQIA policy in her district

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Speaker 5: and how she got a lot of resistance from black

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Speaker 5: people and black women in particular, who thought she should

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Speaker 5: be focusing on that particular population. And you know, I

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Speaker 5: think that, you know, some of it is about just

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Speaker 5: trying to figure out like the question of like how

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Speaker 5: much is too much and when to allow people to

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Speaker 5: kind of like pour into them.

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Speaker 6: And we saw that happening from.

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Speaker 5: People, and you know a lot of the women talked about,

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Speaker 5: you know, these support networks and you know, these critical

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Speaker 5: kind of like networks and communities of care to help

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Speaker 5: them really sustain themselves in their work. So I think

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Speaker 5: that I would say, you know, think about and to

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Speaker 5: know it's okay to not have to like do it all,

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Speaker 5: even though it feels like black women do it all,

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know, thank you for that acknowledgement. Thank

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Speaker 3: you for both of you for seeing us as black

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Speaker 3: women and all that we do in all the ways

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Speaker 3: that we shape the lives of every system that we

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Speaker 3: are part of. And we'll talk more about what you

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Speaker 3: all found in your book through your research, but we

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Speaker 3: want to back up just a little bit. So usually

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Speaker 3: at this point In our interviews, we ask people about

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Speaker 3: their origin stories, right, but today we're going to approach

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Speaker 3: this a little bit differently. So, when you think about

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Speaker 3: who you are right now, what moments, whether they were

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Speaker 3: inside or outside of your schooling shaped how you see justice,

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Speaker 3: education and black children. Were there any moments in particular

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Speaker 3: where something clicked for you when you realized this is

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Speaker 3: the work that I am called to do? And I

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Speaker 3: know that was a lot. So you know you need

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Speaker 3: me to to repeat the question.

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Speaker 5: I feel like I have a better answer to the

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Speaker 5: first part than what is then about when when did

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Speaker 5: I know this is what I was called to do?

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Speaker 5: So I start with that. I grew up in South

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Speaker 5: Carolina too, in the household my mother and my two sisters.

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Speaker 5: I have one older sister, one younger sister. And I

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Speaker 5: tell you my mama was she's a minister now. Back then,

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Speaker 5: I always tell her that people know minister everby now.

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Speaker 5: But I grew up with jan you feel I'm saying,

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Speaker 5: but she she was, She was and is a church

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Speaker 5: going woman.

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Speaker 6: So a lot of my.

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Speaker 5: Formative experiences really getting like solidified as a black person

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Speaker 5: in the US happened in church spaces. I mean, we

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Speaker 5: did everything you know, Sunday School, vacation, Bible school, you know,

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Speaker 5: the field trips, our college visits was through my church.

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Speaker 5: So we did all of that stuff through through my

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Speaker 5: church community. And I think the older that I've gotten,

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Speaker 5: the more I realized how important it was to be

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Speaker 5: a part of a black lead institution that was like

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Speaker 5: where you could show up and you could be unapologetic

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Speaker 5: for who you are. I think that's it was a

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Speaker 5: really important thing because I didn't get that anywhere else

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Speaker 5: really in the world. I mean I always tell people

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Speaker 5: I had to joke about, like, you know, a Sunday

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Speaker 5: Easter speech in a black church is most people's first

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Speaker 5: public speaking engagement and the opportunity to read the King

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Speaker 5: James Bible, which is very difficult in Sunday School, and

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Speaker 5: have to make sense of it, interpret it and use

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Speaker 5: the words like everybody had to take a turn reading

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Speaker 5: out loud.

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Speaker 6: That's what it was.

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Speaker 5: And when you did your Easter speech, everybody encourage you.

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Speaker 5: You might mess up, Everybody say it's okay, baby, keep going.

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Speaker 6: They give you the next lie, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 5: So I think that like that experience in that space,

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Speaker 5: and then as I got older to my teen years,

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Speaker 5: I participate paid it and like oratory contests for Black

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Speaker 5: History Month and those sorts of things. We did our plays,

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Speaker 5: you know, we did our Christmas play at church. We

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Speaker 5: did all these different things, music, choir, we didn't have sports,

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Speaker 5: but everything else that is that enriches both our mind

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Speaker 5: as well as helps us see start to develop all

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Speaker 5: the skills.

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Speaker 6: That we would need.

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Speaker 5: I got a lot of those through my you know,

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Speaker 5: upbringing in the black church in the South. So that's

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Speaker 5: I think, that's what I would say is the place

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Speaker 5: that was really really important. And I think also as

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Speaker 5: I look back, was having access to that institution really

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Speaker 5: helped me understand black leadership in a way that if

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Speaker 5: I wouldn't have been a part of that institution, I

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Speaker 5: wouldn't have had an appreciation for love that.

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Speaker 2: My story is very different, but it's actually dovetails in

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Speaker 2: some ways, and the sense that what I was learning

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Speaker 2: at school was different from what I was learning amongst

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Speaker 2: my own family and community. So I'm Japanese American, a

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Speaker 2: fourth generation, and so that means that my grandparents and

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Speaker 2: all of that generation, and my dad was actually born

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Speaker 2: when the incarceration camps during World War Two, so that

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Speaker 2: really shaped my own trajectory and my histories. But actually

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Speaker 2: one of the like you asked about an early moment,

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Speaker 2: and one of the things I kind of joke about

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Speaker 2: is I've been teaching about controversial topics in the classroom

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Speaker 2: since I was about eight years old because when I

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Speaker 2: lived and this is when I lived in Atlanta, you know,

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Speaker 2: the World War two would come up, and my mom

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Speaker 2: would know that we weren't going to learn about the

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Speaker 2: incarceration of Japanese Americans, so she would get me a

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Speaker 2: poster and she'd send me in the classroom and I'd

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Speaker 2: be the one teaching my classmates about those histories. So

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Speaker 2: it was kind of excruciating, but that was kind of

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Speaker 2: like my like having learned these things outside of school,

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Speaker 2: you know, like that was kind of my first teaching experience.

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Speaker 2: But I was thinking about that context too, and that

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Speaker 2: I am I have a different experienced them my own children,

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Speaker 2: and that I had black teachers when I was growing up,

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Speaker 2: and not just one, I had multiple black teachers, and

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Speaker 2: that was very influential I think for me and my education.

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Speaker 2: We talk a lot about sort of having teachers of

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Speaker 2: color and black teachers in particular, and how that benefits

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Speaker 2: all children, and I've been thinking about how that, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm an example of that, but also what Dakota was

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Speaker 2: saying about sort of witnessing black leadership. When I was

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Speaker 2: a young adult, I was involved environmental justice organizing and work,

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Speaker 2: and I was working predominantly I was working in Portland

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Speaker 2: in the predominantly black community there and had an opportunity

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Speaker 2: to partner with and learn from some of the black

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Speaker 2: leadership that was there at the time. And we were

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Speaker 2: also doing youth organizing, so we were working with young people.

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Speaker 2: They were going into barbershops, they're going into various community

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Speaker 2: spaces and teaching folks about some of the issues, especially

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Speaker 2: around There was books for fishing in some of the

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Speaker 2: rivers and lakes and stuff like that that weren't necessarily

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Speaker 2: safe to be fishing. And so the last little tidbit

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Speaker 2: I'll share is some of the work I've gotten to

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Speaker 2: do recently with this group called the Early Literacy Collaborative.

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Speaker 2: It's a partnership with the African American Mail Achievement Initiative

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Speaker 2: in Seattle, and we partnered with black families and second

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Speaker 2: through fourth grade boys, and I just got to witness

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Speaker 2: their joy and the beauty of them. They co created

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Speaker 2: this story and they wrote a book together in four

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Speaker 2: different languages, and so that the kind of like joy

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Speaker 2: and brilliance of those young black boys and their families

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Speaker 2: has been a real blessing the last couple of years.

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Speaker 1: That is so amazing. Thank you both for sharing. Wow,

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Speaker 1: it's so beautiful to see how your childhoods have shaped

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Speaker 1: who you are today. I'm sure people probably see what

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Speaker 1: you're doing now and they're like, I'm not surprised that

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Speaker 1: Dakota's over here doing this and it's focused on this

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Speaker 1: in the world. Right, this is how they show up

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Speaker 1: in the world. So we want to get the inside

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Speaker 1: scoop now, right, So can you tell us what things

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Speaker 1: you've been noticing right now across schools, districts, and communities,

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Speaker 1: or if you want to even share maybe some of

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Speaker 1: the research that you've want to say, found from your

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Speaker 1: book that has been shocking to you, like share, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it us the INFI school. Well, I think what I

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Speaker 1: be saying.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I'll kind kind of started with a little bit

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Speaker 2: it just like kind of framing about how we ended

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Speaker 2: up sort of organizing the book. It's actually a collaborative

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Speaker 2: effort with thirteen other some of them are practitioners and

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Speaker 2: leaders and systems, some of them are scholars. And we

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Speaker 2: really started to think about the past almost decade and

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Speaker 2: these kind of awakenings that were happening across time. And

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Speaker 2: so the first one was around two thousand and twelve

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Speaker 2: thirteen fourteen, after the killing of treyvon Martin, the beginning

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Speaker 2: of the million Hoodie movement, which was also the beginning

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Speaker 2: of the movement for Black Lives and the Obama era

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Speaker 2: and myths or the Obama Dear Colleague letter that went

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Speaker 2: out around the discipline disproportionality. So that was what we

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Speaker 2: call morning and there was a lot of seating work,

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Speaker 2: and then there was in twenty twenty, of course, the

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Speaker 2: killing of George Floyd, the continuation of the Black Lives Matter,

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Speaker 2: and there's an influx of resources. All the lights were on,

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Speaker 2: all these institutions were falling over themselves to make big commitments,

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Speaker 2: and then really fast the pushback happened, the anti CRT,

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Speaker 2: the book bands, and then now we say we're in nighttime.

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Speaker 2: And that was one of the things that was I

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Speaker 2: think that we hadn't fully thought through when we were

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Speaker 2: writing the book, because we didn't know exactly what's going

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Speaker 2: to happen. But when the book came out, we were

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Speaker 2: supposed to turn everything in to the editors in November

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Speaker 2: of twenty twenty four, and then the election happened, right,

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Speaker 2: and so like academics, we're often a little behind schedule.

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Speaker 2: But in that case, it ended up being really important

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Speaker 2: for us to really think about what does it mean

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Speaker 2: for this to come out, this work to come out

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Speaker 2: at this moment as the federal government is attacking all

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Speaker 2: things diversity, equity, inclusion, they're attacking our public education system,

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Speaker 2: they're attacking democratic governance, and now when they're actually attacked

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Speaker 2: like literally attacking young people, families and communities, and you know,

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Speaker 2: at certain point it was immigrants specifically, but now it's

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Speaker 2: basically anybody.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I think that's been one of the things that has

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Speaker 2: been We recognize that significance in a new kind of

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Speaker 2: way because we're at this time of trying to erase

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Speaker 2: all the work that has happened in all the advances

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Speaker 2: that have been made, and the book is documenting all

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Speaker 2: of those and is a kind of refusal around that erasure.

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Speaker 2: And then the conversations we've been able to have where

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Speaker 2: people have been for me really invigorating and inspiring because

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Speaker 2: people doing the work. They haven't stopped doing the work.

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Speaker 2: It's changing some places, it has to go underground where

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Speaker 2: being people are having to change the way they're moving

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Speaker 2: and the strategies. People are still doing the work and

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Speaker 2: being able to share this fuck and work with them

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Speaker 2: has really galvanized people, I think, and helped us to

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Speaker 2: be to be thoughtful and strategize as we continue in

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Speaker 2: this current moment of night, but also recognize and know

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Speaker 2: that there is a dawn ahead. I'm going to get

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Speaker 2: you in here to goo to.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I think the only thing that I would add, yeah,

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think the only thing that I would

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Speaker 5: add is that I think one of the things and

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Speaker 5: I don't know if the work I don't know if

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Speaker 5: I would say this is shocking, but I would say disappointing.

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Speaker 6: But I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I think that, you know, the more we talk about

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Speaker 5: like that, we're not as surprised. But I do think

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Speaker 5: that the pace and the wide scale of attacks, like

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Speaker 5: immediately once Trump came into power, I guess that kind

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Speaker 5: of caught me off guard. I don't know if I

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Speaker 5: would say it was shocking, but you know, because he

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Speaker 5: said he was going to do these things. But I

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Speaker 5: think it's like the effort to dismantle, you know, the

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Speaker 5: Department of the Education, you know, all of those executive

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Speaker 5: orders that went out day one, the threat to withhole

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Speaker 5: federal funding to districts and higher education institutions that didn't

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Speaker 5: roll back their diversity, equity and inclusion efforts. Those things

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Speaker 5: weren't necessarily surprising to me. The thing that was a

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Speaker 5: bit more surprising was people's preemptive are people's people's compliance

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Speaker 5: was I was kind of have been kind of taken aback.

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Speaker 6: I mean, with the.

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Speaker 5: Exception of Harvard, you know, who decided they was gonna fight,

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Speaker 5: like everybody else is really folding, And it really just.

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Speaker 6: You know, brought to mind and me to people.

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Speaker 5: A lot of people who are in positions of power

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Speaker 5: and authority. I don't know if they really understand how

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Speaker 5: bullies work, Like trying to you know, walk on the

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Speaker 5: other side of the hallway really doesn't protect you, you

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Speaker 5: know what I mean, Like if they don't like you

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Speaker 5: and they're going to go after you, they're going to

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Speaker 5: go after you. So I think that that's been something

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Speaker 5: that I think has been and kind of surprising, not

438
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 5: necessarily the tax from the Trump administration, but how willing

439
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 5: people have been to go along with and try to

440
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 5: be quiet and fly under the radar with all of

441
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 5: these gross injustices. I mean, you know, one of the

442
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 5: things that I've had to remind people about continually in

443
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 5: my workplace in a different places, like it's not illegal

444
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 5: for me to love and provide resources to black people.

445
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 5: I refuse to pretend and to you know, to do

446
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 5: anything that would suggested that's the case. We nobody who's

447
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 5: been doing anything to expand access to opportunities, to make

448
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 5: sure people have what they need.

449
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 6: None of that is illegal. None of it is legal.

450
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 5: It's not discriminated against white men, like it's all lies.

451
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,360
Speaker 5: And they have been very good at shaping the perception

452
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 5: and shaping the conversation. But what I always remember and

453
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 5: what I had to tell people is that I haven't

454
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 5: done anything wrong. You haven't done anything wrong for fighting

455
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 5: for black children or brown children, or lgbtqy children or

456
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 5: English language learners.

457
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 6: You haven't done anything wrong.

458
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 5: And I think part of it, the shocking part to

459
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 5: me is that you know, you can the actions speak

460
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 5: volumes in terms of whether people think that they're actually

461
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 5: doing something wrong or not. And I was like, I,

462
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,400
Speaker 5: we just haven't done anything wrong. I mean, I don't

463
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 5: know if you all are aware of this, but last

464
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 5: week the Trump administration dropped their appeal related to the rollbacks.

465
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 5: They they had an executive order to basically say that

466
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,880
Speaker 5: they were going to take away funding if people didn't.

467
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 6: Roll back their DEI.

468
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 5: It was some people sued the administration, and the administration.

469
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 6: Dropped their appeal.

470
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 5: So it it's basically they was doing something illegal, you

471
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 5: know what I mean, It was illegal to hold people's

472
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 5: funding up because of the reasons that you know, to

473
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 5: make them change their office names and fire people and

474
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 5: all that kind of stuff. So I feel like that's

475
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 5: been shocking. That's where we are right now, and the

476
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 5: book has brought us to you know, communities and then

477
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 5: to put us in conversation with people about these sorts

478
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 5: of things.

479
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 6: And what I what keeps me.

480
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 5: Hopeful is there's a lot of people who are who

481
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 5: share my sentiment, who share our sentiment, who are willing

482
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 5: to resist as needed to make sure our young people

483
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 5: get what they need in schools.

484
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, okay.

485
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 6: I'm awake now.

486
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:37,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you were here for yeah, well you just

487
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 2: let you let Harvard off the hook. But but there

488
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 2: was a black woman at the helm of Harvard who

489
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 2: got knocked out. Yeah, so yes, I don't think they

490
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: get to be entirely off the.

491
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 6: Hook, don't.

492
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,479
Speaker 5: They're not really off the hook by they're one per

493
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 5: they're a one group that was just like no, like

494
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, it's one you know, yes,

495
00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 5: and so right, you're right, you're absolutely right.

496
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 1: Hey lady, real quick, before we keep going, we want

497
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: to put you onto something that we're supporting behind the scenes,

498
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: especially when it comes to personal health. Donald what I

499
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: appreciate most about VB Health is that it's doctor formulated

500
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: with four scientifically backed ingredients for sex drive. Also, while

501
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: most libido supplements are designed specifically for men, they formulated

502
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,879
Speaker 1: drive boosts to be safe and effective for all people

503
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 1: regardless of gender.

504
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 3: Which really isn't the case for most supplements in this category.

505
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 3: Plus is designed to be a daily support, something that

506
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 3: fits into your broader wellness routine.

507
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: And girl, let's be real, we're women of a particular age,

508
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: if you know, you know, and after using this supplement,

509
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: all I must say is it's given energizer Bunny, it works.

510
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 3: I want to laugh at that, but that matters, especially

511
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 3: when it comes to something as personal as your libido.

512
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 3: Drive Boost is designed to support sexual wellness in a

513
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 3: way that feels balanced and sustainable. So, lady, if you

514
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 3: want to learn more, visit VB dot health use code

515
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Speaker 3: per space for ten percent off or click the link

516
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 3: in the show notes. And now let's get back to

517
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 3: the conversation. But what we're seeing and what we've talked about,

518
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 3: what you all have mentioned so far in a conversation

519
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 3: is mostly applicable to higher education, so colleges and universities, right,

520
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 3: But what people don't understand is that some of this

521
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 3: is also some are also affecting K through twelve. Yeah,

522
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 3: even though the conversation has been about colleges and universities,

523
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 3: and so, can you talk to us about how this

524
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 3: is actually impacting the K through twelve systems and the

525
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 3: communities that you all have been working with.

526
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 2: So when we started this the research for this when

527
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 2: we started the research for this book, we were looking

528
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 2: at folks who were taking up this role of equity

529
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,719
Speaker 2: director and it was something that was starting to grow

530
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 2: and we were realizing it was happening in different parts

531
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 2: of the country. Well, that role and the offices that

532
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 2: grew from that are all starting to disappear now, so

533
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 2: that like the folks who got resources and who had

534
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 2: expertise date again they have this outside of those roles

535
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 2: in those offices before, but they had institutional support for

536
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 2: a while. And all of those that, you know, you're

537
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 2: seeing folks losing their jobs. The titles of things are changing,

538
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 2: and even in progressive places that say they're still very

539
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 2: committed to this, there are budget districts all of the

540
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 2: country are getting hit by budgets, you know, deficits, and

541
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: so you start start looking at we are the departments

542
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 2: and who are the people whose funding is going away,

543
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 2: who are losing position, who are losing staff, who are

544
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:07,719
Speaker 2: losing resources. It's often getting shunted away from the folks

545
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 2: who had resources and charge formal charges to be able

546
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 2: to do this work. So that's one of the places

547
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: that's shining up. They're trying to erase policies that got

548
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 2: put into place during this time and all kinds of

549
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 2: things that have been created to support young people, whether

550
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 2: they are LGBTQ or immigrant or those who are students

551
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,959
Speaker 2: with disabilities. A lot of those supports and the resources

552
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 2: for them are being taken away at this point. And

553
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 2: again just to say it, like black women disproportionately are

554
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 2: the ones who are losing these jobs.

555
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and I think you know, it is happening everywhere.

556
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 5: Saw that especially in certain regions of the country to southeast,

557
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 5: in some southern states and some more conservative areas, they

558
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 5: were starting to have they were starting to it was

559
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 5: a lot of the positions and they were having a

560
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 5: change what they were doing earlier on. And now again

561
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 5: a lot of a lot of funding has been lost

562
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 5: and a lot of the threats have had a chilling effect.

563
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 5: Even if they haven't lost anything, the threat of having

564
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 5: of potentially losing resources, you know, whether it's staffing, all

565
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 5: those kinds of things has had a chilling effect where

566
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 5: people have again just made the decision not to address,

567
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 5: you know, issues of equity in a kind of more

568
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 5: open and direct way. The other thing that is important

569
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 5: to keep in mind is that you know, there's groups

570
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 5: like the Mothers of Liberty and other conservative groups who

571
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 5: organize to actually take over local school boards, and so

572
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 5: a lot of kind of like the organizing from the

573
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 5: like political right we see new so it might not

574
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 5: necessarily have been tied directly to you know, the Trump

575
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 5: administration's executive orders, but it's still part of a broader

576
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 5: effort by conservatives who want to rewrite history, who want

577
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 5: to erase history, who you know that turning point talking about.

578
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 5: They want to do a social studies curriculum that basically

579
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 5: rewrites history, that eliminates a lot of the truth, a

580
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 5: lot of the hardships that people of color, black folks,

581
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 5: indigenous folks have experienced, and really whitewash and rewrite history.

582
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 5: The people who a lot of the people who organize

583
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 5: to take over these boards are, you know, the people

584
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 5: who are part of these organizations and their playbook comes

585
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 5: from the organizing manuals did these organizations have put together

586
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 5: to take over local school boards at a local level.

587
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,479
Speaker 5: I mean, one of the things that is that it's

588
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 5: really important to understand is how how really well organized

589
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 5: a lot of these groups are to take over school

590
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 5: boards and that sort of thing.

591
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 6: So it's been in motion.

592
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 5: It's definitely impacting K twelve schools, and it was impacting

593
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 5: K twelve schools for some time now. And you know,

594
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 5: those local elections are so important, so important.

595
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: That was my next question, I'm going to ask you, Okay,

596
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: we hear this information, it can be depressing. It feels overwhelmed,

597
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: like what can I do? So you mentioned local elections.

598
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 1: I'm also thinking about I'm going to make this very simple,

599
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,959
Speaker 1: but most parents, right you're working, may have multiple kids.

600
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: You have so much on your play You're like, what

601
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: in the world can I do? And then you do

602
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: have some folks out there that have a bit more

603
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: time freedom. They may be in a different I don't know,

604
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 1: tax bracket, or they just may have a different position

605
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: in life. It feels like there are different ways to

606
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: engage based on where you are in life, right, So

607
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: if you could just kind of maybe give folks some

608
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: other options of making change and doing something when all

609
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: of this is happening, that will be helpful. So we

610
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: got local elections. Anything else that comes to mind? Yeah,

611
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: I always tell people find your people. So even like that.

612
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 2: I was talking about this project that I was involved

613
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 2: with in with the Early Literacy Collaborative. One of the

614
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 2: things that was super powerful about it was just parents

615
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 2: talking to each other, developing relationships with each other. And

616
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 2: then once they develop those relationships and share their story,

617
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 2: they start to realize that the issues and the challenges

618
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 2: that they're facing with the school system or with other

619
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 2: systems aren't uniquely about only them, that they're shared with

620
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 2: other folks, and then they're able to then start to

621
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 2: develop a kind of collective and it could be like

622
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 2: a collective network, could be a collect you know, it

623
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 2: could be within the context of a school, which is

624
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 2: what I was working with, and that was you know,

625
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 2: black families in particular, because the way that schools typically

626
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 2: operate is very sort of individualistic. So it's all about

627
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 2: sort of like the telling families what they should be doing,

628
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of like one way communication. But

629
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 2: something different can happen when families connect with each other

630
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 2: and start to share resources and information and possibilities. And

631
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that I'm that is

632
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 2: helped has helped me, especially in this moment when Ice

633
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: is in all of these Dakota's in Chicago, Minneapolis, you know,

634
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 2: all that kinds oft offfic going to realize what's happening though,

635
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 2: despite how horrible that is, Like, let the parents and

636
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 2: teachers and community members and neigbors and small business owners

637
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 2: the ways that they are connecting with each other. And

638
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 2: figuring out rays to step up and to coordinate and

639
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 2: to protect their schools, their young people and their communities.

640
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 2: It's it's an evolving situation and obviously it's you know,

641
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 2: there's there's a like a power differential there, but the

642
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 2: power of people coming together. I think that's one of

643
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 2: the things that is, you know, that is a really

644
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 2: powerful way forward and maybe maybe one of the only

645
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 2: ways forward in this kind of moment.

646
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would, I mean I echo that you ended

647
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 5: with the word power and talking about power. And one

648
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 5: of the things that always tell people when it comes

649
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 5: to school spaces is like, figure out what power you

650
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 5: want to leverage, right, So again you were you know,

651
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 5: people have different resources. Time is a resource, and so

652
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 5: if you have time, you might be able to run

653
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 5: for a board position or something like that. But there's

654
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 5: all different kinds of power that people have, and so

655
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 5: the important thing is that people I encourage people to

656
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 5: not see themselves as power less, but to figure out

657
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 5: what your power is and then work with that power.

658
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 5: And that can be as you know, and was talking

659
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 5: about finding other people. So there's power in collective voices,

660
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 5: there's power in you know, if you can show up

661
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 5: and kind of be present at the school.

662
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 6: There's power in that. There's power in some people.

663
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 5: You know, I'm a person I talk very openly with

664
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 5: my children about a lot of things. Everybody's not willing

665
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 5: or don't have to, you know, the will of kind

666
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 5: of like you know, personality to do that. But for me,

667
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 5: like talking, like y'all see something I talk.

668
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 6: This is how we talk with my kids.

669
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 5: So and I think that's a form of power because

670
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 5: it empowers them. And I always am encouraging them that

671
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 5: they can ask questions. They can ask questions to me.

672
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 5: We find information together, We talk about what's happening in

673
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 5: the world together. So there's so many different kind of

674
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 5: forms of power. Some people have money, right, that's a

675
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 5: form of power. You can support candidates for school board,

676
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 5: or you can donate to your school, you can be

677
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,760
Speaker 5: on the PTA. There's all these different kind of ways

678
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 5: to be involved. And even there's opportunities like you know, connecting,

679
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 5: if there's fraternities or sororities that you're a part of,

680
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 5: like those are a source of power. Religious institutions are

681
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 5: a source of power. So there's all these forms of

682
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 5: power that we walk through our everyday lives. Having a

683
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 5: really that we can just reach out and touch. And

684
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:47,760
Speaker 5: so it's just a matter of not just walking past

685
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 5: those things, but figuring out how we can leverage them

686
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 5: and use them to make sure that schools get what

687
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 5: they need and that children in particularly get what they

688
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 5: need from their schools. Everybody can do something. Figure out

689
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:00,799
Speaker 5: what you can do and do it.

690
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, I love that and so so one of

691
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 3: the things that you mentioned was asking questions. So sometimes

692
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 3: I believe that there aren't any dumb questions, but to

693
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:21,719
Speaker 3: tap into real power and change, we have to be

694
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 3: asking certain questions. And so, what are some of the

695
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 3: questions that you wish parents were asking of school leadership?

696
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 6: You want to take this in or you want me

697
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 6: to try get.

698
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 2: Maybe, I guess do you have something do you want

699
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 2: to pump in?

700
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:40,239
Speaker 3: Yeah?

701
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 2: Ask?

702
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,879
Speaker 5: I mean for me, I think a lot of it

703
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 5: is about I'm a big person, so I have this.

704
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 5: My general framework is to orient towards understanding the conditions

705
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 5: that people are in.

706
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 6: The conditions are different.

707
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 5: Asking questions about conditions of something, conditions of a place,

708
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:00,160
Speaker 5: conditions of a school, the conditions that exist within a

709
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 5: a room requires a different level, a different kind of

710
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 5: analysis and critique and a different set of solutions than

711
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 5: talking about individual students or individual families, and so a

712
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 5: lot like you know, my thing is is if you

713
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 5: change the conditions and you provide abundant resources, then you

714
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:26,800
Speaker 5: create the conditions for people to behave, think, practice, learn differently.

715
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 5: And a lot of times, I think a lot of

716
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 5: the questions that people focus on are about their individual

717
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,959
Speaker 5: children and about you know, their own children or maybe

718
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 5: one or two children that they know. And I think

719
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 5: they're asking questions about what's happening in this grade, what's

720
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 5: happening in the middle school, what is happening at the

721
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 5: school are really important questions to ask in addition to not,

722
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 5: you know, not ignoring your child, but in addition to

723
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 5: what is going on, you know, why is my child

724
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 5: experiencing this? And a lot of times this goes back

725
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,800
Speaker 5: to Anne's idea of parents talking to one another. I

726
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 5: have a ten year old and a thirteen year old,

727
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 5: and if I could tell you how many times if

728
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,399
Speaker 5: your child is experiencing something, nine times out of ten

729
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 5: the other families are experiencing it too.

730
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 6: You got to jump in the group text, you just got.

731
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 5: To talk to somebody or during pick up or during

732
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 5: drop off and be like, is this going on?

733
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 6: It probably is.

734
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 5: You have more power as a collective to talk about

735
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 5: we're going to change the conditions than you do to

736
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 5: try to advocate solely and singly for your own child.

737
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 5: It's more likely that you'll get changed, and it's more

738
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,479
Speaker 5: likely that you'll get changed. That will benefit a greater

739
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 5: number of students. If you talk about what's going on

740
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 5: in sixth grade, you can fix that issue for the third,

741
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 5: fourth and fifth graders is coming behind the current sixth

742
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 5: grade class. That's different than thinking about your own individual child,

743
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,839
Speaker 5: which both are important, But I think thinking about and

744
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 5: asking questions about the conditions that are happening is the

745
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 5: most import and thing that I would encourage parents to do.

746
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,879
Speaker 1: That's so good, Thank you, And what would you add

747
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: to that?

748
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, just I mean I think that that's that's a

749
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 2: kind of like, that's one of the things that happens

750
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 2: when you are in relationship with other families is you

751
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 2: move from my child to our children.

752
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 1: Right, that's it.

753
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 2: And I think about I'm going to take this maybe

754
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 2: just from a parent perspective and three kids, and one

755
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,359
Speaker 2: of the things I learned some of my research has

756
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 2: been through this initiation called Family Leadership Design Collaborative and

757
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 2: so we worked with this group in LA called KADRE

758
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 2: and they work on Black and brown parents solidarities. And

759
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 2: one of the they've been they were doing these role

760
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 2: plays of talking to teachers and what is it like,

761
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 2: especially for black parents and black mothers in particular, in

762
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 2: their contacts, to have these conversations with teachers about their

763
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,919
Speaker 2: children's behavior, because it always it's this thing that keeps

764
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 2: coming up all the time. And one of the things

765
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 2: that I learned from them was this question exactly the

766
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 2: kind of thing that Codo was talking about, but in

767
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 2: one on one parent teacher conversation, how everyday conversations can

768
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 2: be an opportunity for parents to be leading and teaching

769
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 2: educators about about their children, but also about the conditions

770
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 2: and that instead of like, you know, what are the

771
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 2: conditions of this, right, they're they're they're asking, like, you know,

772
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 2: so if a teacher says, you know this this happened,

773
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 2: your child was whatever, throwing a notebook on the ground,

774
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 2: or they were throwing a fit when I was trying

775
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 2: to xyze you whatever, and the parents said, you know,

776
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 2: they role played and they said what happens if you asked,

777
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 2: what do you think was happening in the classroom that

778
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 2: caused them to do that? What do you think you

779
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 2: were doing in the classroom that caused that to happen?

780
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,280
Speaker 2: And it shifts the conversation. And I was like, Oh,

781
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 2: that's that's jim, I'm going to take that. And you know,

782
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 2: I used it with my own parenting and it's a

783
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 2: really profound shift and it was for me in this

784
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 2: like really amazing way to think about how just like

785
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 2: you said, doctor don I'm sking a simple question and

786
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 2: an interaction can shift the focus and the dynamic. And

787
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 2: you know, the teacher is good. Sometimes they'll be defensive

788
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 2: about that. I had a teacher get real defensive on

789
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 2: me about that, right, But it changes the conversation to

790
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 2: what's happening in the room in the space, because my

791
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 2: child don't do that at home, right or in these

792
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 2: other kinds of spaces, So what's happening in there and

793
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 2: gets us all to be thinking about, like Dakota said,

794
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 2: like the conditions of what's creating those dynamics?

795
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: Wow wow wow, Oh.

796
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 5: Go ahead, No, I was just saying that was beautiful

797
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 5: to break down my high level theory.

798
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 6: Thank you for the question.

799
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:48,919
Speaker 1: We see the teamwork. We see the team work here.

800
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: You all are amazing. This conversation has been very insightful,

801
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 1: absolutely mind blowing. I have notes over here for selfish reasons.

802
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:58,840
Speaker 1: I told you in the beginning. I got a baby

803
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 1: going to school soon she'll be in a predominantly white environment,

804
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, how we're going to navigate this.

805
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,240
Speaker 1: So this has been so timely, and because we appreciate

806
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: the work that you all do, the emotional labor that

807
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure this takes you. For both of you, we

808
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: want to in the conversation close it with a bit

809
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: more flair, fun and hope. And so the question that

810
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 1: we would love to ask you all each enclosing is

811
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 1: what is something that you either do for joy and

812
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 1: funning your own life or there's a guilty pleasure that

813
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: you're like, you know what, I really want to let

814
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: the people know that I love binge, watching reality TV

815
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 1: or whatever it might be for you. What does that

816
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,240
Speaker 1: thing for you? So feel free to answer how you choose,

817
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: and then we'll learn more about where people can connect

818
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:37,760
Speaker 1: with you. Excellent.

819
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 2: Well, one of the things that I don't do as much,

820
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 2: but I used to do a lot is play really

821
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 2: big drums. So yeah, I play tycho, which is a

822
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 2: Japanese word for drum, and man, that is a source

823
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 2: of release and joy to play these really loud, powerful instruments,

824
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 2: and yeah, challenge all the stereotypes about Asian women. And

825
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 2: you know this is like get get, get all the

826
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:06,720
Speaker 2: energies out there. Amazing. Thank you for sharing.

827
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,280
Speaker 1: That's all. That sounds so therapeutic.

828
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, look y'all should see the pictures of her playing

829
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 5: those drugs.

830
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 6: It's fierce.

831
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 1: I love I love it.

832
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 5: For me, I am a self taught guitarist and singer songwriter,

833
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 5: and you know, my thing that I just brings me

834
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 5: a tremendous amount of joy is writing songs. A song

835
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 5: that I wrote recently over the winter break. It's called

836
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 5: Wildest Dream and it is a song written from the

837
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:38,760
Speaker 5: perspective of ancestors, speaking to the people who are fighting

838
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 5: a good fight right now. So it's one that I've

839
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 5: been very excited about. And yeah, so writing songs is

840
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 5: a big thing. I've I had a burst of inspiration

841
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,839
Speaker 5: during the pandemic. I don't know what it is about

842
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 5: the social conditions we're in, but I've had a more

843
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 5: another recent burst of energy, sooppen, you know, creative energy.

844
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 6: And so I've been writing a lot of songs lately.

845
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing, and I feel like

846
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 1: wildest Drink. It has to be an emotionally charged song.

847
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,520
Speaker 1: Is that available for people to tune into? I feel

848
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 1: like that could be so inspiring for it will be something.

849
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 1: It will be.

850
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 6: Okay, let us not need that. One of my buddies

851
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 6: told me he I sent it to him.

852
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 5: It's not master or anything like that, but I said

853
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 5: it to him and he was like, you need to

854
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 5: you need to release it as a single.

855
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 6: So we'll see.

856
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, hopefully can we get the inside scoop when

857
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,720
Speaker 1: it does, I'm like, okay, cool, okay, let us know. Please,

858
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 1: thank you.

859
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 2: You can't find his other work, so there we go.

860
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 3: Okay, yes, So as we are wrapping up, so we

861
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 3: know people are gonna want to know where they can

862
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 3: find your work, not only your research but your music

863
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 3: as well. And so and in da code, can you

864
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 3: share with our audience where one restate the title of

865
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 3: your book and where folks can find it and then

866
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 3: in general where they cant with you.

867
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the book is doing the work of equity

868
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 2: leadership for justice and systems change, and you can find

869
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 2: it at the publisher, teacher's college, past or any other

870
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 2: places that you get books, Bookshop and Amazon, those good places.

871
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 2: And you can get more information about me on my

872
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 2: website at Annishumary dot com. You can join my newsletter there,

873
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 2: which is about once a month I'll send something out,

874
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 2: and I'm on socials on LinkedIn and a little bit

875
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 2: of Blue Sky and Instagram.

876
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 5: You can find more about me at Dakotaerbi dot com.

877
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 5: I'm also on Instagram under the name Dakota Black. I'm

878
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,479
Speaker 5: on Facebook is Dakota Erbi and LinkedIn is Dakota Erbi.

879
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 5: And Dakota Black will also lead folks to my band

880
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 5: camp page for music, I'm on Spotify, Apple Music in

881
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 5: all those different places. I have a couple of projects

882
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 5: that have been released. But thank you for asking me

883
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:55,879
Speaker 5: that too, because I rarely ever tell people to find

884
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 5: me on band camp. So yeah, Dakota Black at band camp, yay.

885
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: Thanks, thank you so much. We're going to check both

886
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: of you out on the socials on band camp all

887
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Speaker 1: the good stuff, and we appreciate you so much for

888
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Speaker 1: the work that you're doing in the world, and we're

889
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Speaker 1: so excited for this conversation and future conversations that will

890
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Speaker 1: have so thank you so much, thank you, Thanks so

891
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Speaker 1: muss for own us. If you want more speaking engagements, collaborations,

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Speaker 1: or visibility for your brand, I got to tell you

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Speaker 1: the truth. This is Terry Lomax and I've been a

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Speaker 1: public speaker for over twelve years. I've lended national media,

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Speaker 1: a TED talk, in six figure collaborations without a publicist

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Speaker 1: How many times have you looked up and seeing people

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Speaker 1: with less experience getting opportunities you were fully qualified for.

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Speaker 1: Here's the truth. Opportunities don't go to the most qualified.

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Speaker 1: They go to the people who can clearly communicate their value.

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Speaker 1: Once I learned how to organize my story and position

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Speaker 1: my expertise using a framework, everything changed. If you want

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Speaker 1: my exact pitch emails, word for word, my winning subject lines,

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Speaker 1: and the Saucy Solutions framework, visit get that pitch dot

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Speaker 1: com for a limited time use code her Space for

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Speaker 1: Visit get That pitch dot com or click the link

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Speaker 1: in our show notes.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for tuning into Cultivating her Space. Remember that while

914
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Speaker 3: this podcast is all about healing, empowerment, and resilience, it's

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Speaker 3: not a substitute for therapy. If you or someone you

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Speaker 3: know need support, check out resources like Therapy for Black

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Speaker 3: Girls or Psychology Today. If you love today's episode, do

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Speaker 3: us a favor and share it with a friend who

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Speaker 3: needs some inspiration, or leave us a quick five star review.

920
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Speaker 3: Your support needs the world to us and helps keep

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Speaker 3: this space thriving.

922
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Speaker 1: And before we meet again, repeat after me, I trust

923
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Speaker 1: myself to begin even without all the answers. Keep thriving, Lady,

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Speaker 1: and tune in next Friday for more inspiration from Cultivating

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Speaker 1: her Space. In the meantime, be sure to connect with

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Speaker 1: us on Instagram at her Space Podcast.