WEBVTT - Are cyborgs just science fiction? 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.000 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve cameray. 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:08.920 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:18.040 tech Stuff from how stuff Works dot com. Hello again, everyone, 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.919 and welcome to tech Stuff. My name is Chris Pellette, 0:00:20.960 --> 0:00:22.640 and I am an editor here at How Stuff Works 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:26.360 and sitting next to me as usual as senior writer 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:29.040 Jonathan Strickland. Come with me if you want to live. 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:33.599 Oh no, you went there, did you? I did? Already 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.879 We're gonna We're gonna talk about cyborgs. And first of all, 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:40.400 I would like to apologize to the anonymous listener out 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:43.120 there who sent me the request that we do an 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:46.519 episode about cyborgs. I did a search because I know 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:49.160 I had seen it, but does searching my email could 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:52.640 not find that request. So to whomever it was that 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:56.000 sent that request, I apologize, but hopefully you'll enjoy what 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.240 we have to tell you. All right, then, so where 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.160 should we start. Let's let's start by defining what a 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:04.880 cyborg is. That's good because the first thing I had 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:09.720 was the definition from Miriam Webster, which was, uh, a 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:14.319 cyborg is a bionic human, which really didn't tell me anything. 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:16.600 So I had to look up bionic, because I figured 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:19.240 that would give me a clue, And they do say 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:24.479 that bionic means quote having normal biological capability or performance 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:28.160 enhanced by or as if by electronic or electro mechanical 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:32.600 devices end quote, So basically a biological person who is 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.840 enhanced in some way by technology. Interesting. When I did 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:40.160 a search for a good definition of cyborg, the first 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:44.160 thing I got was cybernetic organism, which, like your definition, 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.440 does not help you out a whole lot um. However, 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.080 cybernetics is a study of human control functions and a 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:54.200 mechanical and electronic systems is designed to replace them, involving 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:58.720 the application of statistical mechanics to communication engineering. So really 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:03.640 cybernetics is more and just just computers or computing systems. 0:02:03.640 --> 0:02:08.079 It's also biology, um, neuroscience, that kind of thing. Also, 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:11.320 if you're curious as to where the words cybernetics comes from, 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:16.519 it has a Greek origin meaning terminator. No, I'm sorry, 0:02:16.560 --> 0:02:21.760 it means helmsman or steersman, so someone someone who who 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:25.560 pilots a ship. Okay, then you know it's funny because 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:28.400 you're all terminator. But when I started thinking of cyborgs, 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:31.079 I was thinking more along lines of the six million 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:35.000 dollar man or the bionic woman. Right, well, you know, 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:40.200 even even neuromanswer clearly, the six million dollar man is 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:42.200 science fiction because there's no way you'd be able to 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:44.640 build that sucker for six million dollars. Well this was 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:47.519 the nineteen seventies, right, Well, that's true. Six million dollars 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:51.960 then was about thirty trillion dollars. So, um, but somebody's 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:54.440 gonna write in and go, no, it's not so cybernetics. 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:57.640 That was a term that was introduced by Norbert Wiener 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:02.000 or Veener if you prefer. I. Yeah, that appeared in 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:08.440 So uh, let's talk a little bit about No, is 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.880 cyborg really within just the realm of science fiction or 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:17.760 is this reality? Well that's a good question. Um. I 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:20.600 would say it's it's reality, but the reality is not 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:25.400 nearly is exciting and fun as science fiction makes it seem. 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:30.280 I think it all depends upon the particular cybernetics application 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:33.280 you're talking about and the purpose for that application, Because 0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:37.080 for some people, I would say that the cybernetics and 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:43.040 cyborg studies in particular are incredibly interesting, mainly because a 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:47.160 lot of people are regaining use of certain senses or 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:51.200 limbs that they may not otherwise be able to use 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:55.920 due to cybernetics. So we can talk a little bit. Well, 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:59.880 how did you want to think talk about this? Um? Well, 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.200 you know, I did a lot of my research on 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.800 a recent article written for the site. You know, will 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:10.040 we ever be able to communicate with only our minds? Oh? Yeah, 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:14.800 I'm familiar with that. Yes, well, I mean, um, ladies 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.479 and gentlemen of the podcast, this is something that Jonathan 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:19.040 wrote about just a few days ago, and as a 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:20.839 matter of fact, as we are speaking, it hasn't actually 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:22.840 been published on the site, but probably will be by 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:26.159 the time that you're listening to this. But it's it's 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:29.400 fascinating because, you know, the idea that we would be 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.080 able to communicate with our minds, you know, the idea 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:36.160 was tell, you know, telepathic communication, Because it turns out 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:39.240 it's more like, can you find some kind of technology 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:42.040 that will help you do that? In the answer is yes, yeah, 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:46.360 you know, if you're going by the strictest definition, Uh, 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:49.240 can we communicate with only our minds? The answer is 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.200 really no, because we we do need something in addition 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:54.839 to our own minds in order to transmit the thought 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:58.919 to someone else. Um, But we're actually making progress and 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.360 doing that, and it's all because of what we call 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:06.160 brain computer interfaces, and it's pretty much what sounds like. 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:09.479 It's an interface that allows you to control or input 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:13.279 data into a computer using your brain. Most of these 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:16.760 use e G. S Um that These those are the Yeah, 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.960 the sensors you see that are hooked up to strategic 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:24.279 points upon your noggin. Uh, They detect the electric impulses 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:28.200 in your brain and can interpret those impulses. You know, 0:05:28.480 --> 0:05:31.640 we've studied the brain enough to know, hey, when you 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:35.440 think lift my left arm, this area of your brain 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:37.800 lights up. When you think lift my right arm, this 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:40.080 area of the brain lights up. So by doing that, 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:45.200 even though we don't technically understand all of the mechanics 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.440 behind it, we know enough where we can build a 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:51.200 computer interface system to kind of take advantage of that. Now, 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:54.520 this is in its most primitive form. Right now, there's 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:57.480 really not Uh. We haven't reached a point where you 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:00.800 can put on you know, your thinking cap to for 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.320 lack of a better word, and have someone else put 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.400 a similar cap on and then you think, hey, I'm hungry, 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:08.240 would you like to go get some pizza? And then 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.080 the other person receives that thought and can understand it. 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:14.320 We're not there yet. Uh. The experiment that I wrote 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:20.240 about within that article was fascinating, but it involved actually 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.040 thinking I want to lift my left arm or I 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:25.720 want to lift my right arm. The computer would receive 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:29.320 the electric electric signals that were zapping around in the 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:34.480 subject's brain and could interpret that. And so if you 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:36.360 you know, I didn't don't have the article in front 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.040 of me, but I think left arm was a zero 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.560 and right arm was a one. So if the subject 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:44.200 thought I'm going to lift my left arm, the computer 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:47.400 interpreted it as a zero. If the subject thought I'm 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:49.880 going to lift my right arm, the computer interpreted as 0:06:49.880 --> 0:06:53.360 a one. The computer then sent this series of zeros 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:56.200 and ones to a second machine that was in a 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:59.920 remote location, and that would interpret it as you know, 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.120 it would get a zero or one. It would then 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:06.000 send a series of signals to a a lamp, an 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:10.000 led lamp, which would flash in a very very fast 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:12.840 series of flashes depending on whether it was a zero 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.080 or a one. It was two different series, but it 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:19.840 was such almost random looking and quick series of flashes 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:22.640 that humans wouldn't be able to say, oh that was 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:25.120 zero or that was a one. They would just see, oh, 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:27.480 there's a lot of flashes. That was a different, slightly 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:32.920 different set of flashes. Um, well, the brain is enough, 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.440 can can actually record you know what the different series 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:39.120 of flashes are. You're not conscious of it, but your 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:41.720 your brain is picking it up. And by wearing by 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:45.800 the subject be wearing an e G setup uh, the 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.480 e G would detect the signals in the brain that said, hey, 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:50.880 this is the series of flashes that lit up. That 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.680 means that it was a zero, or that means it 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:56.240 was a one. And so without using any kind of 0:07:56.320 --> 0:08:00.240 keyboard or anything, subject one could send a series of 0:08:00.520 --> 0:08:03.280 zeros and ones to subject to or subject and b 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:07.160 I think is what I said originally, Um and uh, 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:09.800 and you and the subject you would receive them. Now 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:13.000 you're not again you You would need a separate, a 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:18.320 third computer really to interpret those brain signals so that 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:21.400 subject being knows what kind of message they got. It 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.520 would almost be like if I wrote to you using 0:08:24.560 --> 0:08:28.080 a language that you weren't familiar with. You could read it, 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:30.160 but you have no idea what the meaning is. You 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:33.439 should have to have something translated. So we're not quite 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.040 to the point yet where we can send an actual 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:41.520 thought and have someone consciously understand it. But the progress 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:46.800 has been remarkable. Yeah. Yeah, Actually in another um, not 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:51.080 exactly similar, vein, but I read an article in in 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.679 Wired magazine by Clive Thompson, uh, and it's it was 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.360 about what he was calling the cyborg advantage. And this 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:59.439 makes it. This is kind of you know, the title's 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:03.320 waiste here than the content, but it's about chess actually, 0:09:03.840 --> 0:09:09.440 and um, you remember Gary Kasparov, who who you know, 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:14.800 beat and then lost to uh the IBM computer deep Blue. Yes, yes, 0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:16.959 he he won I think in ninety six and then 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:19.400 in a rematch in nineties seven lost in a series 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:23.200 of six games. Well, according to Thompson's article, he's been 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:29.079 working on a situation in which he pairs computers and 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:35.080 humans because basically the humans know how to make sense 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.960 of the computer decision. So it's like playing chess with 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.559 the laptop and you you, um, you make the laptop 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.120 your partner and you say, okay, well you know the 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:46.080 other the other player just made this move. What do 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:48.559 you think computer? The computer says, the logical move is 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.920 to do this, and the human can either accept that 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.600 decision and play that piece or say, you know what, 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:58.760 I have the feeling he's up to something and I'm 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.319 gonna I'm not gonna make move. I'm gonna make this move. 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:04.320 And so he uh, you know, the the other player 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:06.720 is able to you know, make a decision based on 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:09.400 the computer intelligence. It's sort of like it actually kind 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:11.400 of reminded me of meteorologists going, well, you know the 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:16.679 computer models say, um, but basically there was a there 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:20.520 was a two thousand five tournament in which basically anything went. 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:24.320 So it was possible to participate in this tournament as 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:28.000 a computer human pairing and uh, there were a couple 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:32.079 of twenties somethings with and off the shelf PC essentially 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:35.840 who did better than the really you know, like the 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:39.439 grand masters of chess or you know, the heavy duty 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:43.760 computer models. So basically that the two of them were 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:48.120 stronger than a computer or a really talented chess player. UM. 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:50.320 So you know, I don't know how scientific that is, 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:52.800 but it's it's an interesting thought to think, you know, 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:58.000 maybe the augmentation of a human with computer technology, uh, 0:10:58.040 --> 0:11:00.160 you know, as a nice balance in between the too. 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:03.600 That's actually, uh, that reminds me a lot of what 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:08.920 Professor Kevin Warwick talks about in his in his various 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.280 papers and and experiments that he's performed. Um. He's a 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:15.800 professor at the Cybernetics Institute at the University of Reading 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.199 in the UK, and you mentioned him in your article, 0:11:19.400 --> 0:11:22.959 right and Warwick, Um, he's actually he was known for 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:26.120 doing some things that some people have kind of called stunts, 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:28.680 but he was sort of using them as a way 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:34.320 of a proof of concept form for a cybernetics cyborg future. UH. 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:38.120 Back in he did this experiment where he had a 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:42.199 doctor implant a essentially in UH an r f i 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.240 D chip in him and UH the chip would allow 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.480 him to walk through the laboratory and do things like 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:52.000 open doors and turn on lights and whatever without without 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:55.000 actually having to move a muscle because it just detected 0:11:55.000 --> 0:12:00.840 the chip and then the system reacted. Now, this really 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:02.760 has limited use when you think about it. I mean, 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.760 the risks you're taking by having something implanted in your 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:08.520 body just to turn on lights, that seems like that's 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:12.400 not really a good use of your time. I mean, 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:15.040 most of us can achieve this by carrying around a 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.920 little card has a chip in it that doesn't require surgery. 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.040 True but he was doing this as a proof of concept, 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:23.800 and um, I don't think it's still in him. I 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:26.080 think he's I think in every single case he's had 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:30.960 the various things removed after the experiment was over. Also, 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:33.560 just aside benefit of that, if he runs away from home, 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:37.360 they'll be able to track him down. Yeah. So in 0:12:37.400 --> 0:12:42.160 two thousand two, he had a one electrode array surgically 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:46.320 implanted into his um left arm, and this allowed him 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:50.079 to plug it into a kind of look like this, 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:53.199 this plastic collar almost that would that would close around 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:55.640 his arm. Um. It looked very much like a sort 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:58.800 of Star Trek kind of device, and uh, some wires 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:02.840 would attach to the the color plastic color around his arm, 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:04.800 and he would be able to do things like control 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:09.200 robotic hands remotely. And what was happening was that, you know, 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:13.480 your nervous system works through electrical impulses, like we're talking 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:15.160 about in the brain, Well, the same is true all 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:19.000 throughout your nervous system. So you you are a walking 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:22.880 electrical being, um, at least as far as your nervous 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:28.840 system is concerned. So by pairing these electrodes with the 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:32.319 nerve endings in his arm, he was able to send 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:36.800 electric signals through his nervous system, which the the computer 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:41.680 could interpret as, oh, this means open the robotic hand, 0:13:41.720 --> 0:13:44.920 this means closed the robotic hand. And to keep it simple, 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:46.720 they pretty much kept it the same as opening and 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:51.160 closing his own hand. Um, but that meant that it 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:55.880 showed that you could control various mechanical devices through your 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.200 own nervous system. Now, granted, this is not a brain 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:01.800 computer interface. This is this is her computer interface, right, 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:04.760 So yeah, it seems like that would be much simpler 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:08.160 to organize compared to a brain computer interface. It as 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:12.840 much simpler. However, it's still incredibly complicated, and of course 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:14.680 you have lots of things to worry about. I mean two, 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:18.400 whenever you're surgically implanting foreign materials into a human body, 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.480 there are a lot of different things you have to 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:23.200 worry about, like infection, rejection, that kind of thing. I 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.120 have to worry about rejection every day in my life. 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:29.720 Uh at any rate, So that's a sidebar. The He 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:34.120 then went on to have another interesting experiment where his 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:39.960 wife had a similar, slightly more primitive implant and put 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:43.600 into her arm and then the two were connected. Yeah, 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.320 I wonder how he talked her into that. Um, I 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:48.280 don't know. I can never talk my wife into doing 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:52.400 something like that. She'd be like, yeah, whatever, um. But 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.840 but at any rate, the way the the connection worked 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.480 was that whenever his wife opened or closed her hand, 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:01.640 he would get an impulse through his nervous system and 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:05.520 would he said, feel a pulse. He did not really 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:09.320 define how it felt, so I'm really curious to as 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.560 to what kind of sensation is he talking about, Like, 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.640 how did he perceive? I know that he did perceive, 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.520 or at least he claims to have perceived his wife 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:21.560 opening and closing her hand, And that seems like it's 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:23.800 an easy enough thing to test. You know, you could 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.440 keep them both separate and as long as the connection 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:30.120 was good, um, you know, just have him indicate whenever 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.120 she opened or closed her hand, and if it matched up, 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.440 then you know, all right, there's something there. But he 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.520 did not go into how what it felt like, So 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:42.200 I don't know what his actual perception was. But this 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.560 was another way of saying, hey, you know, maybe we'll 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.400 get to a point where again we'll be able to communicate. 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:51.120 Actually they could theoretically, at least she could communicate to 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.960 him remotely just through morse code opening and closing her hand. 0:15:55.680 --> 0:16:02.080 But yeah, maybe that's is good robust enough. Yeah, yeah, 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.360 And I don't know how good that connection was, like 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:07.240 how far away they could be from each other, or 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.360 if it was through the Internet connection or anything like that. 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.800 That I got the least amount of information about that 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:20.440 particular experiment. But Warwick's point is that cybernetics can give 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:23.840 us a lot of enhanced abilities that we otherwise would 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:26.640 never have access to. So not just the ability to 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:30.120 communicate remotely, which is phenomenal, but imagine being able to 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:34.400 tap into the network of information on the Internet through 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.200 your brain. Yeah. That that again sort of reminds me 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:40.040 of like the matrix and neuromancer, where you know, you 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:43.480 plug something in and suddenly you have access to all 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:46.360 this information neither stored well in those cases, more like 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:49.600 like an e book where you can you know, just 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:52.240 have access to that without being connected to the Internet. 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:55.480 Now what's interesting here is you would you would remember things. 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:58.240 It's like memory, right, Like you would be able to say, huh, 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.880 when was you know, uh, when was the Magna Carta signed? 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:04.080 And then you access the Internet through your brain and like, 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.159 oh it's twelve fifteen. But no, that's not it's a 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:11.520 three oh oh the year got it? King John Magna 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:15.520 Carta work with me here. So um. But but yes, 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:19.040 you could. You could recall facts, but you wouldn't necessarily 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:24.040 be smarter. You would just remember a lot more stuff. Right. Well, 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.240 that would sort of be like the chess versus uh, 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:29.760 you know, the chess situation where the computer is acting 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.439 on logic and it was you know, this is a 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.600 logical move it. You know, in the past many people 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:37.919 have used this and in the the end result was 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:41.080 a win. But two percent of the time that people 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:43.800 use this move, they went on to win the match. Yeah, exactly. 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:47.040 And and you know the human is using intuition and 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:49.840 is able to use human intelligence to make sense of 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:53.280 that information. So you know, having the opportunity to use 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:57.480 that information from you know, downloaded online. But you're right, 0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:59.199 you wouldn't be able to do anything other than just 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:01.560 simply know the act. You might win a lot of 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:03.880 Jeopardy games, right, but you wouldn't be able to Let's 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:09.280 say you needed to to look up a particular formula 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:14.160 for some sort of mathematical equation. You might be able 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.240 to find the formula, but that doesn't mean you would 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:20.160 understand it, right, So there's there's that barrier there. Now, 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.800 that's not to say that there wouldn't be other developments, 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:25.640 cybernetic developments that would allow you to have much more say, 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.480 processing power in your brain as well, where maybe you 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:31.080 don't have to understand it. You've got the computer working there, 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:33.840 which Warwick's point was that frees up your brain to 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.440 do other things like create poetry or you know, watch 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:41.240 the Simpsons at any rate. Uh, other ways you could 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:43.840 enhance it, and not just not just through being able 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:47.840 to access information, but to sense things that human beings 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:53.120 are unable otherwise to sense, like ultrasonic frequencies or light 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.359 that's outside of the visible spectrum. Right. You know, you 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:59.520 would be able to maybe create a cybernetic implant that 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:04.720 would allow you too, uh see X rays, provided of course, 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:07.720 your eyes are capable of seeing them. Well, again, why 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:09.200 would it have to be an eye. You could build 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.320 a sensor like let's say that you don't do it 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:14.280 through your eyes. Let's say that you have a sensor 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:17.159 placed somewhere else on your body that you know, we 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.280 think of it as seen, but it doesn't necessarily have 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:22.919 to be seeing that's that's that's Warwicks point is that 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:25.800 we we already think in such a narrow set of 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:29.680 parameters that cybernetics really goes blows all that out of 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:33.560 the water, and suddenly you become this machine or slash 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:38.000 human that's capable of sensing uh, you know, a significant 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:42.159 more information about your environment and even be able to 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:44.280 interpret it more because you could tap into, say the 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:48.760 Internet remotely. Now, this this raises a lot of ethical problems. 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:52.280 I sent us treading closer to the singularity with this conversation. Yeah, 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:54.760 it does kind of get it definitely goes to that 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:57.760 same sort of area. But one of the ethical issues 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:02.080 is who is able to to do this? Should they? 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:04.679 Should they do it? And if they can do it 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:06.720 and they want to do it, what does that mean 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:09.280 for the people who either cannot do it or don't 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:11.880 want to. Are they left behind? Do we become two 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:15.080 different species of creatures because you would have the cyborgs 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:18.359 who would suddenly have access to all this information and 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:23.280 sensory uh, information that otherwise they wouldn't have, and the 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:27.520 rest of us would just be bags of meat sees 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:32.199 sneeches without Yeah, so there you go, like, you know, 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:34.480 these are questions we don't have answers to right. For 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:38.880 one thing, the technology is nowhere near there yet. And uh, 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:41.320 some might argue that, hey, since we can't do it yet, 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:43.879 why are we Why are we wasting time worrying about it? 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:46.560 But my point is it's better to think about these 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:49.399 things ahead of time before they become a real issue, 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.159 you know. And and and it may turn out that this 0:20:52.240 --> 0:20:55.280 is one of those things where science leaps far ahead 0:20:55.440 --> 0:21:00.000 of ethics or the law and it only becomes a problem, 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.120 you know, or it becomes a problem and then we 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:04.520 address it as opposed to let's think about this now 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.200 and trying to address it ahead of time. Um. But 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:09.639 I'm sorry you were about to say, well, no, I 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:11.600 was gonna say that, you know, it hasn't stopped it 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:16.040 from becoming a reality in other circumstances. Very good. Yeah, 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:20.080 but there's just not again as as flashy, um, and 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:22.639 as those experiments that we were we were just discussing, 0:21:22.640 --> 0:21:25.520 I mean things like you know, Barney Clark's first artificial heart, 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:29.440 you know, that was a technological advancement. Or a pacemaker, 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:33.000 for example, is an electronic device that is implanted in 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:36.320 somebody to uh, to help people monitor their heart rhythms 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.920 and make them more regular. Um. Yeah, there's some really 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:44.080 phenomenal technology that's already in fairly common use out there 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:47.840 that um that really kind of falls right into this 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:53.119 cyborg uh category. I mentioned cochlear implants earlier. That's definitely 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:57.240 something that would fit. So a cochlear implant. That's an 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:00.639 electronic device, and it's designed to help people who have 0:22:00.800 --> 0:22:04.080 severe hearing loss or who are even deaf um be 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:07.760 able to perceive sound. Now they're perceiving it differently than 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:11.520 the way people who have normal hearing would perceive it. 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:15.040 It's not exactly the same thing. A cochlear implant. It 0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:17.879 has a microphone, so that's what's picking up the sound 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:21.119 from the environment. UM. It usually has a speech processor 0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:24.080 which kind of helps arrange that sound to to help 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:27.639 the listener makes sense of it. Um. And then the 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:32.280 transmitter sends signals to an electrode array, which sends the 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:35.240 impulses to various regions on the auditory nerves. So you're 0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:38.440 getting the signals sent directly to the auditory nerve. It's 0:22:38.440 --> 0:22:42.199 not passing through the regular organs of the ear, you know. 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:46.560 And uh so people who have cochlear implants can actually 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:49.320 perceive sound. Again, it's not exactly the same kind of 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:52.560 sound that we perceive, but with training, they can completely 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:56.560 hear and be able to hold conversations and uh, differentiate 0:22:56.600 --> 0:23:00.639