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Speaker 1: Previously on Queen of the Con.

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Speaker 2: The California Mom is the alleged ring leader behind an

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Speaker 2: eight million dollar retail theft ring.

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Speaker 3: She's accused of operating a nationwide shoplifting scheme for more

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Speaker 3: than a decade.

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Speaker 1: And that ringleader Michelle Mack, was using her giant four

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Speaker 1: car garage as her own personal Amazon fulfillment center, selling

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Speaker 1: millions in stolen merchandise while cleverly hiding her crimes from

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Speaker 1: authorities and neighbors in plain sight.

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Speaker 3: If I'm a police officer and I see Michelle Mack

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Speaker 3: driving down the street and her land Rover, I'm not

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Speaker 3: gonna think she's got a crew of people out nationwide

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Speaker 3: stealing items so she can sell them in her Amazon store.

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Speaker 4: The California Girls.

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Speaker 1: They call them the California Girls. Scott. That's just sexy

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Speaker 1: and exciting, and I can't believe that's the term they're

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Speaker 1: using at the CHP like we're on the California Girls case.

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Speaker 5: Gosh, one of those California girls, I'd be sweating.

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Speaker 1: I know, the life of crime.

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Speaker 4: I'm sweating just talking about it.

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Speaker 1: But how on earth did Michelle Mack recruit these California

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Speaker 1: girls to do all her stealing for her. Come to

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Speaker 1: find out, hiring a professional shoplifter is a lot easier

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Speaker 1: than you might think. Were you worried at all that

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Speaker 1: I might be a cop?

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Speaker 6: But not really.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Walton and this is Queen of the Con

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Speaker 1: Season six, The California Girls, Episode two, I don't shit

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Speaker 1: where I eat?

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Speaker 7: Say this aspect unloading the I from their shirt and

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Speaker 7: hit them in another employee on the area, only to come.

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Speaker 1: Back with my buddy Evan Goldstein, and I are watching

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Speaker 1: a news report now about a professional Walmart shoplifter.

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Speaker 4: She gets a suitcase from Walmart, and little do they know,

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Speaker 4: it's packed with eighteen thousand dollars worth of these electronics,

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Speaker 4: iPads and stuff.

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Speaker 1: God, that's brilliant.

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Speaker 4: It's really smart. And it's like, look, here's my receipt

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Speaker 4: for the suitcase. Are they really going to go inside

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Speaker 4: the suitcase and look? You know, like, what's what did

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Speaker 4: you pack? What eighteen thousand dollars worth of electronics did

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Speaker 4: you pack in here? Ma'am getting out.

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Speaker 1: At this store undetected, pushing a shopping cart with the

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Speaker 1: iPhones and iPads in the suitcase. So can I bounce

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Speaker 1: an idea off you? Yeah? I'm trying to talk to

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Speaker 1: a professional.

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Speaker 4: Shoplifter, like someone who's been in jail.

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Speaker 1: Like ideally one of Michelle Max's alleged shoplifter. Okay, but

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Speaker 1: if I can't get one of her shoplifters because a

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Speaker 1: bunch of them have been charged and are going through

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Speaker 1: their court process and hearings.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, No one wants to talk when yeah, when.

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Speaker 1: Their lawyers have advised them not to talk. Sure, but

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Speaker 1: I just want to get I want to get a

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Speaker 1: foothold into that world. It's this world that exists in

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Speaker 1: plain sight that I never had a clue was there,

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Speaker 1: and neither did you. Like they're regular looking people who

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Speaker 1: go into stores and just steal hundreds of thousands of

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Speaker 1: dollars worth of stuff and walk away.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I've never kind of thought of shoplifting as like a

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Speaker 4: coordinated effort. It's always been like, you know, it's like, oh,

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Speaker 4: one person's just going to steal a bag they want.

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Speaker 4: Like in my mind, it's always seemed like a one

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Speaker 4: off kind of thing, Like it's never been this like

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Speaker 4: you know, big.

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Speaker 1: Network of its criminal it's an industry.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's crazy, it's never.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I don't want to talk to those shoplifters

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Speaker 1: who like to steal one thing here and there because

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Speaker 1: it's fun or exciting. I'm trying to find professional shopliad.

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Speaker 4: That sounds like it's going to be really hard to do.

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Speaker 4: Like who who's going to come out and say, like, hey,

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Speaker 4: right now, I'm operating in a shoplifting ring. I'm dying

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Speaker 4: to talk to somebody. Hey, you know, hey, this is

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Speaker 4: this is Jennifer social Security number one four eight seven

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Speaker 4: eighty five, And like, like, who's gonna even who's going

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Speaker 4: to come forward to like admit they're currently committing crimes.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm thinking of putting an ad on craigslist.

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Speaker 4: Oh okay where you know, if you want to find

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Speaker 4: a slightly used model trainset, you could find it on Craigslist.

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Speaker 1: I found a lot of amazing things on craigslist. Truth

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Speaker 1: be down.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, man, it just sounds like I just

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Speaker 4: don't It's like, first of all, like why would someone

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Speaker 4: come out and tell you they're committing a crime. There's

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Speaker 4: no incentive to tell you what they're doing, and it's

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Speaker 4: like could not get them in trouble.

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Speaker 1: Well, I've been giving this a lot of thought, as

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Speaker 1: you might imagine, so what if if I incentivize them,

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Speaker 1: What if I offer them, like a thousand dollars to

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Speaker 1: talk to me?

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Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, a thousand bucks is not like.

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Speaker 1: A guarantee that I'm not a cop and I'm not

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Speaker 1: trying to get them arrested. I'm not trying to get

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Speaker 1: them in trouble. I just want to tell their story.

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Speaker 4: But don't you think a cop would say, I'll pay

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Speaker 4: you just to get someone on the hook.

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Speaker 1: No, that's entropment. They can't do that. Oh, that's illegal.

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Speaker 1: Like if a cop could place a cragslist at and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking for heroin dealers, I'll pay you a thousand dollars.

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Speaker 4: Like, you know, I just love the idea that, like

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Speaker 4: there's all these shoplifters cruising on Craigslist looking for dying

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Speaker 4: to tell their stories.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, I've had a lot of luck with

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Speaker 1: Craigslist in the past, and I think if we incentivize

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Speaker 1: them with a thousand dollars, I think I think they

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Speaker 1: might be willing to talk to me.

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Speaker 4: You know, Like a thousand bucks is great, But you know,

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Speaker 4: like I don't know, I just feel like, you know,

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Speaker 4: who wants to put themselves in harm's way, or you know,

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Speaker 4: even if they know you're not a cop, maybe a

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Speaker 4: cop hears it. Whatever. You know, maybe you should just

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Speaker 4: try to promise them that you'll like disguise their ide

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Speaker 4: entity or something so that they can't get out.

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Speaker 1: To good idea. Absolutely, I can disguise their voice. That's

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Speaker 1: super easy. That's one little filter on the.

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Speaker 4: Audio edit and you get and then I feel like

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Speaker 4: they'll feel safer to just talk.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I won't use their name, I'll disguise their voice.

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Speaker 1: I'll give them a thousand dollars.

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Speaker 4: It's like going fishing, you know. Sometimes you throw the

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Speaker 4: bait out and you just sit there and wait, and

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Speaker 4: then sometimes you get something. So I guess it's kind

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Speaker 4: of like that. You know, you just gotta wait and

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Speaker 4: see if you see what comes back.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna post the album, believe me. I know.

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Speaker 1: Craigslist can be a mixed bag. I mean a lot

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Speaker 1: of people get scammed on Craigslist and some even wind

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Speaker 1: up dead.

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Speaker 7: Investigators say a job seeker from Florida who responded to

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Speaker 7: a bogus Craigslist ad for a job on a cattle

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Speaker 7: farm in Ohio was found dead and buried in a

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Speaker 7: shallow grave.

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Speaker 1: But in my own life, Craigslist has been nothing short

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Speaker 1: of amazing. Seventeen years ago, I met the man who

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Speaker 1: would become my husband on Craigslist Your Bows as a

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Speaker 1: kid wo and then my husband and I found the

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Speaker 1: most amazing apartment on Craigslist. We even found our giant dog, Chiquito,

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Speaker 1: on Craigslist when he was just a puppy. A USC

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Speaker 1: student was actually hiding him in his dorm room, and

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Speaker 1: Chaquito would bark so loud when the kid went to

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Speaker 1: class that he got busted. So this USC student was

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Speaker 1: desperately looking for a good home for his barking puppy,

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Speaker 1: and my husband and I responded to his Craigslist ad

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Speaker 1: and rescue Chaquito from dorm life. And that was five

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Speaker 1: years ago. Shaquito is now a giant one hundred and

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Speaker 1: forty pound dog and a lot of work, but we

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Speaker 1: love him. So I have nothing but immense gratitude and

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Speaker 1: love for Craigslist. And I've really come to believe that

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Speaker 1: life is actually a lot like Craigslist, because whatever it

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Speaker 1: is you're searching for, in my experience, you will find

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Speaker 1: in some form or another. So in that spirit, I

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Speaker 1: put my professional shoplifter wanted ad up on Craigslist in

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Speaker 1: the Gigs Offered section for Los Angeles and surrounding areas.

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Speaker 4: So this is the Craigslist ad here, yep, okay, looking

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Speaker 4: to interview female shoplifters about why they do it and

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Speaker 4: how they do it in an effort to get inside

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Speaker 4: the mind of a professional shoplifter and tell their story.

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Speaker 4: I'll disguise your identity and your voice like a muppet

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Speaker 4: mom wa wah wah wah whah, and I will not

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Speaker 4: report you to any authorities. Well that's a bonus. It's

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Speaker 4: good you put it. It's like you know how to

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Speaker 4: catch a predator. It's like you show up, the cops

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Speaker 4: are there?

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Speaker 1: Were you the shoplifter? I mean, I know it's a

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Speaker 1: long shot, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

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Speaker 4: Right where else can you go? You know, like to

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Speaker 4: try to get people to talk to But I don't know, man.

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Speaker 1: Regardless, I put the ad up and I wait, and

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Speaker 1: what happens next? I just did not see coming after

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Speaker 1: the break, Welcome back to Queen of the con. So

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Speaker 1: I put my professional shoplifter wanted ad up on Craigslist,

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Speaker 1: and I wait. I go to bed that night thinking

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Speaker 1: this whole Craigslist thing might be a huge waste of time.

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Speaker 1: Maybe nobody will respond. I need to figure out a

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Speaker 1: better way to find some professional shoplifters to talk to.

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Speaker 1: But the very next day I was pleasantly surprised, kind

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Speaker 1: of shocked.

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Speaker 4: Really, are you getting any responses? This is what's going

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Speaker 4: on with the ad dude.

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Speaker 1: In the past twenty four hours alone, I've gotten literally

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Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds twenty four hours.

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Speaker 4: Yes, people are dying to talk.

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Speaker 1: About not just people people claiming to be female professional shoplift.

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Speaker 4: Like professionals, not just like oh you know, like I

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Speaker 4: like back in the early eighties, I stole like a

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Speaker 4: giant mobile phone.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm hearing all kinds of crazy stories and

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Speaker 1: my inbox is just blowing up with emails.

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Speaker 9: Like I started shoplifting really young, like five years old.

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Speaker 9: I come from a family of shoplifters. It's what we

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Speaker 9: do for a living. When I was a kid, my

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Speaker 9: mom would use the stroller she was pushing me in

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Speaker 9: to hide stuff and roll me right out of the store.

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Speaker 9: No one ever suspected what was going on.

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Speaker 6: I'm a female shoplifter.

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Speaker 5: Sometimes I do it for the adrenaline rush, but usually

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Speaker 5: just to save money. Sometimes they have nicer things out

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Speaker 5: of my typical budget. I'm an actress, so my income

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Speaker 5: can be quite unsteady.

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Speaker 10: I've been shoplifting for like ten years now. I see

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Speaker 10: a lot of expensive things from sex Now, Gucci, Nordstrums.

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Speaker 10: Then I sell it all online. I've never been caught.

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Speaker 10: Let's just say, I really look the part. No, whatever

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Speaker 10: suspects I'm a shoplifter.

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Speaker 4: How do you know someone's not just saying this so

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Speaker 4: that they could get a thousand dollars, you know, it's

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Speaker 4: just making it up. Yeah, like I you know, just like, oh,

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Speaker 4: thousand dollars on the table. Oh yeah, you know, I'm

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Speaker 4: a shoplifter. I'm you know, I know where Jimmy hoff

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Speaker 4: is buried.

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Speaker 1: I love these dated references from men in their forties.

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Speaker 1: Jimmy hoffa lost in the militia.

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Speaker 4: They still don't know where he is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So I've thought about that. And here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: I've read over hundreds of pages of the court records,

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Speaker 1: the criminal complaint. I've read tons of articles about Shelle

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Speaker 1: mac and what you know, her alleged shoplifting ring of

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Speaker 1: California girls. So I am very familiar with how professional

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Speaker 1: shoplifters operate. So I'm gonna go through all of these

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Speaker 1: applicants and I'm gonna sneak a question in the middle

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Speaker 1: of all my questions. I'm gonna ask them like ten questions, like, hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm interested in talking to you. Answer these ten questions,

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Speaker 1: and like the fifth question is gonna be quote, what

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Speaker 1: do you do with the stuff you steal? Question mark. Now,

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Speaker 1: if you're someone pretending to be a shoplifter to get

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Speaker 1: the thousand dollars, you're gonna say many things. I take

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Speaker 1: it home, maybe I sell it online or whatever. That's

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Speaker 1: not a professional shoplifter.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting because then a lot of people aren't

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Speaker 4: thinking of that next step to.

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Speaker 1: Exactly because it's very specific and it's something only professional. Again,

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Speaker 1: there are shoplifters like you and I were when we

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Speaker 1: were kids.

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Speaker 4: And you're going after like people that are stealing high volume.

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Speaker 1: High volume. Yes, professionals. That's what I call professional shoplifting,

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Speaker 1: not just someone who does it on the weekend when

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Speaker 1: they're bored for the because they don't have enough money

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Speaker 1: so they want to buy this. No, they're not professionals.

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Speaker 1: A professional shoplifter someone who steals and sells that stuff

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Speaker 1: they steal. What's super important for me to suss out

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Speaker 1: in my fifth question of ten is what do you

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Speaker 1: do with the stolen stuff? A professional shoplifter will tell

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Speaker 1: me I sell it to a fence. So offence is

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Speaker 1: what authorities call and in the shoplifting world, someone who

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Speaker 1: buys stolen stuff offence. So the professional shoplifter is selling

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Speaker 1: the stuff they steal to a fence. Michelle Mack is

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Speaker 1: an alleged fence. What she did allegedly was run a

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Speaker 1: quote fencing operation. She was allegedly buying stolen stuff and

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Speaker 1: selling it cheaper than everywhere else because it was stolen.

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Speaker 1: That is a question that will separate the week from

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Speaker 1: the chat. So I literally spend days and days and

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Speaker 1: days going over all these emails from all these purported

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Speaker 1: shoplifters from Los Angeles, from Orange County, from San Diego,

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Speaker 1: and some are even in Malibu. Believe it or not,

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Speaker 1: they all appear to be willing to talk to me,

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Speaker 1: and I report my findings back to Evan. So I've

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Speaker 1: spent the past few days going over hundreds and hundreds

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Speaker 1: of quote professional shoplifting applicants, and I've spoke to a

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Speaker 1: few of them on the phone, and I've whittled them

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Speaker 1: all down. I had three that I was considering, and

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Speaker 1: then one by one, each of them ghosted me. So

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Speaker 1: that tells me they were real and they got scared

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Speaker 1: because I was trying the wrong approach with them. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to meet them in person, and they all agreed,

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Speaker 1: and then eventually when the meeting time came, they ghosted me.

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Speaker 1: They stopped communicating and I can't get them back on board.

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Speaker 1: So then I changed my strategy based on that, and

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Speaker 1: I said, we could do the interview over zoom to

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Speaker 1: make you feel more comfortable. So I narrowed it down

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Speaker 1: to this one woman who's a professional shoplifter. Oh, is

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Speaker 1: she a professional shoplifter. She's been doing this for like

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Speaker 1: ten years.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 1: She has a bunch of different fences and she can

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Speaker 1: make as much as one thousand dollars a day shoplifting.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 1: So she's the one I'm going to talk to. I

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Speaker 1: had no idea it was so easy to find professional shoplifters.

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Speaker 4: Well, you got hundreds of responses in a day.

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Speaker 1: So the fact that Michelle Mack allegedly had twelve working

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Speaker 1: for her full time, flying them all over the country,

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Speaker 1: renting them cars, getting them hotels, furnishing them with a

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Speaker 1: shopping list of what to steal. It doesn't surprise me.

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Speaker 1: It's remarkably easy to do.

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Speaker 6: Hello.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this is the actual recording of my first phone

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Speaker 1: call with the professional shoplifter I'm talking about. She wants

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Speaker 1: to go by Susan, which is not her real name.

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Speaker 8: Nice to meet you, Milam's Jonathan.

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Speaker 5: Nice soon.

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Speaker 1: Keep in mind that is not how her voice actually sounds.

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Speaker 1: We're disguising it for her protection, which is what I

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Speaker 1: promised her I do as one of the conditions for

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Speaker 1: her to talk openly with me.

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Speaker 8: Thanks so much for responding. I've been getting so many responses,

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Speaker 8: but everyone like beats around the bush, you know. Thanks

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Speaker 8: for like being straightforward. And I'm not a cop.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm not.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you were a cop, you'd probably be

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Speaker 2: like turningly out for like my name and everything and

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Speaker 2: where I live.

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Speaker 6: So I trust you.

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Speaker 1: After that initial phone call, I send Susan a zoom

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Speaker 1: link and she gets on a zoom with me.

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Speaker 2: My name is Susan and I'm nine years old.

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Speaker 1: Susan actually looks a lot younger than twenty nine, though

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Speaker 1: she looks like a college kid with long blonde hair

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Speaker 1: up in a ponytail, hopeful eyes, and a warm smile.

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Speaker 1: She's talking to me now from the passenger seat of

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Speaker 1: a car being driven by her boyfriend, who is himself

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Speaker 1: a professional shoplifter. They're actually both on their way to

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Speaker 1: meet up with one of several fences that they sell

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Speaker 1: their stolen stuff to. This fence lives far enough away

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Speaker 1: from them, so Susan figured there was more than enough

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Speaker 1: time to zoom with me on the way, and she

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Speaker 1: was right. I also get the impression that they meet

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Speaker 1: up with their various fences pretty frequently.

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Speaker 2: It's funny because like, were meeting up with our fence,

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Speaker 2: and I was like on Craigsli's Like, I was just

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Speaker 2: looking at the gigs, you know, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: we were meeting up with our fence, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I was like, this.

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Speaker 6: Is like this is crazy.

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Speaker 2: I was like, I was like, I wonder if you know,

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Speaker 2: I just didn't know like if you would respond her

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Speaker 2: at all that you did the next day, So I

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Speaker 2: was like, okay.

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Speaker 1: Cool. Susan and her boyfriend, who you'll hear quietly chiming

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Speaker 1: in from time to time as we talk spend all

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Speaker 1: day every day going from store to.

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Speaker 2: Store Burlington Coat Factory, Walmart, Target, CBS, Walgreens, Whole Foods,

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Speaker 2: ralph Sprouts, Mother's Market, Albertson's, Nordstrum's, and Macy's.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So you kind of hit everywhere. Yeah, with shopping

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Speaker 1: lists in hand that their fences provide them stealing as

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Speaker 1: many items on those lists as they can. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of work, but it can pay really well.

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Speaker 6: If you just get a bag full of stuff that

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Speaker 6: could be like a thousand dollars a day.

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Speaker 1: So you can make a thousand dollars a day shoplifting.

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Speaker 2: A couple of years ago, but now now it's a

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Speaker 2: little harder to do it. You can probably make like

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Speaker 2: maybe like five hundred dollars a day. Fiven years ago,

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Speaker 2: nobody was doing it, you know, and so like really

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Speaker 2: like now it's like every single homeless person you meet,

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Speaker 2: like they know the fence, you know.

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Speaker 1: So you were making a thousand dollars a day five

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Speaker 1: years ago and you're making five hundred of dollars a

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Speaker 1: day now.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, how many.

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Speaker 1: Other shoplifters in the Los Angeles Southern California area? Do

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Speaker 1: you know?

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Speaker 2: How many like shoflists, do you know, probably like around

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Speaker 2: like fifty fifty. Yeah, wow, that's like probably within like

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Speaker 2: a lot of the homeless community.

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Speaker 6: They are shoplifters, you know, Like I have.

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Speaker 1: To say, you guys were homeless for a while.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, we were homeless for a while. That's how

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Speaker 6: we got Like that's how we got, you know, like

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Speaker 6: in the crowd.

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Speaker 1: You know, how did you get into shoplifting?

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Speaker 2: It started when I was like a little kid. It's

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Speaker 2: like the instant gratification, you know. Like I would be

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Speaker 2: a little kid in like the save on you know,

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Speaker 2: drug stores, and I wanted these fake nails, you know,

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Speaker 2: and I would steel them and my mom would like

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Speaker 2: catch me.

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Speaker 6: I would like wear these.

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Speaker 2: Fake nails and I would cut them down to like

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Speaker 2: the like my natural nail length because I bite my nails.

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Speaker 2: I used to buy my nails and so like I

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Speaker 2: would cut them down to like my natural nail length

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Speaker 2: to think that like she wouldn't catch me, and she'd

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Speaker 2: like well, but sure enough, she was like where'd.

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Speaker 6: You get these fake nailholes?

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Speaker 2: Like what are you talking about? These are my real

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Speaker 2: And she's like, no, they're not. She's like where'd you

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Speaker 2: get them? And I was like, well, and so she

381
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Speaker 2: caught me in a lie. You know, I wasn't doing

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Speaker 2: it for a while, and then after she kicked me out,

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Speaker 2: you know, and I was on my own. It kind

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Speaker 2: of just like started from there.

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Speaker 1: The reason Susan got kicked out of the house is

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Speaker 1: just heartbreaking. I mean, Susan and her mom never had

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Speaker 1: a great relationship to begin with, and a tragic twist

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Speaker 1: of fate would only make things worse after the break.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Queen of the Khan. Our professional shoplifter.

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Speaker 1: Susan is explaining how and why she got into shoplifting,

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Speaker 1: and it has a lot to do with her getting

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Speaker 1: kicked out of the house as a teenager.

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Speaker 6: I grew up down in Elisa Yeho.

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Speaker 1: A city in Orange County, about an hour south of

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles.

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Speaker 6: I was very sheltered as a child.

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Speaker 2: My dad had answer when I was in eighth grade,

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Speaker 2: and I lost him to cancer at eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I'm sorry.

400
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Speaker 6: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And like we still haven't even had a funeral

402
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 2: for him, you know, like there's been a lot of

403
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Speaker 2: mourning and not like like chloo, like not like everything's

404
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 2: just like stops, you know, because my mom. My mom's

405
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Speaker 2: been like touring the country and like or touring like

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Speaker 2: the world.

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Speaker 1: So, your your father passed away eleven years ago and

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Speaker 1: you still haven't had a funeral.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, why because my mom isn't ready or something.

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Speaker 6: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: She doesn't tell us why, and like she he left her,

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Speaker 2: Like my mom doesn't ever have to work a day

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Speaker 2: in her life, but she does whatever she wants to

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Speaker 2: do with the money.

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Speaker 1: And so it sounds like your your father left your

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Speaker 1: mother a lot of money and she's just what been

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Speaker 1: partying this whole time and not aving a funeral.

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Speaker 2: She says that she can't deal with drama very well,

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Speaker 2: but in like life, like that's kind of like what

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Speaker 2: you have to deal with. A long time ago, I

421
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 2: went to jail for something that like, and I was

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Speaker 2: like kind of like joking about it with her, and she's.

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Speaker 6: Like, that's not funny.

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Speaker 1: What were you in jail for.

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Speaker 2: It was an ex boyfriend. It was like self defense.

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Speaker 2: He was like hitting me. It was like right when

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Speaker 2: I moved to Sacramento, and so he left me at

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Speaker 2: the house and then his mom like called the cops

429
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Speaker 2: on me. They were like, oh, so you hit your boyfriend.

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Speaker 6: I was like no.

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Speaker 2: I was like, it was self defense, but there was

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Speaker 2: like no proof of that. And so like with the cops,

433
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Speaker 2: whoever calls the cops first, and in domestic.

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Speaker 6: Violence they win pretty much like because like.

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Speaker 2: Whoever calls the cops first, the second person always has

436
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Speaker 2: to go to jail.

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Speaker 1: So his mother called the cops on you because she

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Speaker 1: didn't like you.

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00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:52,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, she told me that I was like Satan. He

440
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 2: was like a MoMA's boy to the extreme. In her eyes,

441
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:57,960
Speaker 2: her son could do no. And he was like a

442
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,040
Speaker 2: big fraud. He was into like like fraud, you know.

443
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,040
Speaker 2: And I didn't know that. And then when I found out,

444
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 2: I flipped out and I was like, you're ruining people's lives.

445
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,159
Speaker 2: He's like, well, like what are you doing? You know,

446
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 2: because I started that's when I started shoplifting. Really, I

447
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 2: was like, I'm not ruining people's credit, you know, Like

448
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 2: I was like, you're stealing people's money and like fucking

449
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:18,719
Speaker 2: like digging through their email, dirty like digging through their

450
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 2: dirty laundry, you know.

451
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: According to Susan, her boyfriend at the time was a

452
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 1: real life identity thief. He'd steal people's info and run

453
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 1: up credit in their names. He'd also sell their info

454
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,439
Speaker 1: to other criminals who do the same thing. And of

455
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:39,159
Speaker 1: course his mother was oblivious.

456
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 6: And so she didn't know like any of that. She

457
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,360
Speaker 6: didn't know he was doing any of that, like, you know, because.

458
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,919
Speaker 2: He was like writing check and I was like, you know,

459
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,199
Speaker 2: you don't know what your son's doing. He lost his

460
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 2: job because he was doing fraud at his work, you know,

461
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:50,680
Speaker 2: and she.

462
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:53,320
Speaker 6: Didn't know that he was even doing that. And I'm

463
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:54,680
Speaker 6: not gonna like just smitch him.

464
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 8: Out like that because I don't.

465
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,200
Speaker 6: Carmel will come back to him like when it's his time.

466
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,280
Speaker 1: So, I mean, you make a good point in your mind.

467
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 1: You're stealing from these multi billion dollar corporations and stores,

468
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: you're not hurting anybody, whereas he's stealing people's identities and

469
00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 1: ruining their credit and ruining their lives.

470
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah, there's like a line. Some people like cross

471
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 6: that line super easily. You know.

472
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 2: I don't shit where I eat in terms of like

473
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 2: my friends and my family. I don't steal from my friends.

474
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 6: Or my family.

475
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 2: I refuse to do that from people, you know, like

476
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 2: like hardworking people who like work their ass off to

477
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 2: just get where they are, you know, in today's world,

478
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 2: because it's like that's what I'm trying to do. There's

479
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 2: just some plaint like klet bomaniacs, you know, who just

480
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 2: like love to steal like everything, because like I mean,

481
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 2: these multi billion dollar companies, like they have insurance. It's

482
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 2: like a victimless crime almost, so to speak.

483
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: I understand how you can think of it that way.

484
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's it's certainly the lesser of two evils.

485
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,679
Speaker 1: If you're comparing it so that boyfriend you had who

486
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: was stealing people's identities and ruining their credit. That hurts people,

487
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 1: whereas taking you know, diapers from Target. Like who's that

488
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: really hurting? Is your question?

489
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 6: Yeah exactly.

490
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 2: I mean, like there's people who have jobs now because

491
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 2: of because of us, you know, because of lost prevention.

492
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: Let me see if I can follow you here. You're

493
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,359
Speaker 1: creating jobs for people by.

494
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 6: Yeah exactly, that there would be no loss prevention.

495
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:39,119
Speaker 1: I mean, you're not wrong. I've never thought of it

496
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 1: that way.

497
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 6: It's a whole industry. Wow, we're helping people get jobs

498
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 6: get paid.

499
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're quite the you're quite the philosophy. I eventually

500
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 1: circle back with Susan to her acrimonious relationship with her mother.

501
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,920
Speaker 1: So her father died of cancer when she was eighteen,

502
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 1: and he was kind of a wealthy guy, it sounds like,

503
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 1: and Susan's mother took the money he left her and

504
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 1: has just been traveling the world having adventures ever since. Meanwhile,

505
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: she hasn't held a funeral for Susan's father in the

506
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: eleven years since he died.

507
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 6: My mom's a cyclist.

508
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 2: She's got multi thousand dollars bikes, you know, and she

509
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 2: can't deal with drama. She likes to escape like her problem.

510
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 2: Like she's been in Africa this last like a couple

511
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 2: months or whatever, like just like cycling. Like there's this

512
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 2: Instagram feed, you know, it shows them like cycling these

513
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 2: like barren deserts.

514
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 6: But that's what she likes, you know, that's what she does.

515
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 2: Like her addiction is fucking is exercising.

516
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: You know, what did your dad do for a living

517
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:46,639
Speaker 1: before he died.

518
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 2: He was a director of corporate sales for Nvidio, which

519
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: is a computer graphic company.

520
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: So he left your mom well off, and your mom

521
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,679
Speaker 1: just is spending all that money living traveling the world,

522
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 1: cycling with her thousand dollars bicycle.

523
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 2: And she sold the house for one point five million

524
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: dollars and she sold all my stuff in it, you know,

525
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 2: And like I said, she kind of wrote me off,

526
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 2: like after my dad died.

527
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 1: Why how did that happen?

528
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 2: Because like when my dad was going through cancer, it

529
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 2: was like really hard to see him kind of just deteriorating,

530
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 2: and so I didn't really want to be like.

531
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 6: At the house.

532
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 2: And I kind of started drinking at a younger age.

533
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: It's funny because I don't even drink now, but she

534
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 2: thought that I was going to turn into like this

535
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 2: like full blown like alcoholic, but I don't even drink now.

536
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 6: I don't even smoke cigarettes.

537
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: Wow, I can understand. You know, you're a teenager. Your

538
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: dad's dying. That's stressful. Who wouldn't drink? I get it.

539
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 2: She kicked me out of the house because I guess

540
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,720
Speaker 2: I had drinken like one of her and my dad's

541
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,239
Speaker 2: like really expensive bottles of wine or something that she

542
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 2: didn't like that she couldn't replace or something.

543
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 6: I don't know. Oh my god, yeah, three days after

544
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 6: he died.

545
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 2: Ever since then, I've kind of just been like on

546
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 2: my own, like just kind of like figuring shit out,

547
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 2: like as it goes, you know, like they really didn't

548
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 2: teach me about life, you know, like dealing with life

549
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 2: on life's terms, you know.

550
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: So Susan gets kicked out of the house when she's

551
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 1: eighteen years old. This is around late twenty thirteen. At

552
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: that point, she was living in Elisa Viejo, about an

553
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: hour south of Los Angeles. She then moves to Sacramento

554
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: with a boyfriend whose mother thinks she's Satan and calls

555
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 1: the cops on her and gets her arrested. Meanwhile, that

556
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: boyfriend is really the evil one stealing people's identities. So

557
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: Susan eventually breaks up with that boyfriend and gets another boyfriend,

558
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: the guy who's driving the car she's in right now.

559
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: How did you become homeless and how long were you homeless?

560
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 5: For?

561
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 2: We because we came down here, like for a court date,

562
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: Like my boyfriend had a court date down here.

563
00:28:58,320 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: Was it a shoplifting court thing?

564
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a petty theft. And then after that

565
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 2: because of the Grapevine, the grape vine like ruined our

566
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 2: car and we kind of got stuck down here.

567
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: So the grape Vine is what they call a perilous

568
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: stretch of Interstate five just on the outskirts of Los

569
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,719
Speaker 1: Angeles County. It's a very steep section of highway that

570
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 1: causes a lot of accidents, right to that breaking news

571
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: from the Grapevine where two big rigs slammed into each other,

572
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: creating a big mess. Also, driving up that steep incline

573
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: on the grape Vine for miles and miles causes a

574
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: lot of car engines to overheat and just shut off.

575
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 2: We went up the grape Vine and literally it like

576
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 2: like caused our car to almost like explode.

577
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: So Susan and her boyfriend were homeless at that point,

578
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: living out of their broken down car.

579
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 2: We kind of came down here and have been stuck

580
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 2: down in Orange County kind of just trying to make

581
00:29:58,520 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 2: a living, you know, like trying to like.

582
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: And I'm really conflicted about telling you what Susan does next,

583
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: because I don't want to tempt anyone listening into doing it.

584
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: I mean, on the one hand, it's kind of genius

585
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: and a super easy way to get a lot of cash,

586
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: and it's technically not shoplifting. Wow, you just blew my mind.

587
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: I never knew that was a thing. But on the

588
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: other hand, it's just plain wrong. And yet it's fool

589
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: proof and literally anyone can get a lot of cash

590
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: doing it.

591
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 2: We met this kid who was like homeless and he

592
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 2: had no idea how to make money, and so we

593
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 2: told him about that and we blew his mind too,

594
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 2: and we're like, We're like, yeah, he's He's like, no,

595
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 2: like I can make money like this.

596
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: I was like, Yeah, if you're enjoying Queen of the

597
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: con tell someone click that share button and send this

598
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: pot cast to anyone you think might be into it. Also,

599
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: if you can leave us a five star review, reviews

600
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: really help other listeners find us. Queen of the Cohn

601
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: The California Girls is a production of AYR Media and iHeartMedia,

602
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: hosted by Me Jonathan Walton. Executive producers Jonathan Walton for

603
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: Jonathan Walton Productions and Elisa Rosen for AYR Media. Consulting

604
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: producer Evan Goldstein. Written by Jonathan Walton, Sound design by

605
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: Zack Hirsch, Edited and mixed by Zack Hirsch, Audio engineer

606
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: Justin Longerbeam mastered by Justin Longerbean legal counsel for AYR Media,

607
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 1: Janny Douglas, executive producer for iHeartMedia. Maya Howard. Voice acting

608
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: by milan Faxis, Tracy Lee and jay Anela