1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome 2 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: back to Work in Progress, my friends. This week we 3 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: are joined by one of my journalism heroes. Today's guest 4 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: is none other than Joy Anne Reid. She is an 5 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: incredible journalist and television host, a national correspondent for MSNBC, 6 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: and is best known for hosting her political commentary program 7 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: to Read Out. Since July of twenty twenty, The New 8 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: York Times has described Read as a heroine emerging from 9 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:44,200 Speaker 1: the political movements and protests against former President Trump. She's 10 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: written three books that are absolutely astonishing, and her most recent, 11 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: Medgar Evers on The Love Story That Wakened America, came 12 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: out early this year. I can't wait to talk to 13 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: Joy today about her book, her incredible mind, the way 14 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: that she is looking at another election year, and how 15 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: she stays so inspired to make sure to lead us, 16 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: call us in and give us hope. Let's get to it, Hi, Joy, 17 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: how are you? I just need to like take thirty 18 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 1: seconds to fangirl you and then I'll be my professional self. 19 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: But I mean, I know, you know, because all I 20 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: do is comment on. 21 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 2: All of your posts all of the time. 22 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: But I have like the biggest journalism crush on you, 23 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: and I am so excited you're here today. 24 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 2: I could just die. 25 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 3: Oh you're so sweet, thank you, thank you, thank you, 26 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 3: thank you for having me. 27 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: It really means a lot, and you've been such a saint. 28 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: And we were just saying, I was like, I don't 29 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: know if I need to send this woman flowers or 30 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: booths or both, but like between laryngitis and south By, 31 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: you have allowed us to reschedule, and you're just you 32 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: are a gem of a human. 33 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 3: Oh, no problem, how is south By Southwest? 34 00:01:59,200 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 2: It was great. 35 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: It was you know, it's it's like everything feels like 36 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: Mayhem now with with travel and whatnot. But it was 37 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 1: also just very cool. I love being in rooms full 38 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 1: of inspiring women and just hearing what people are up to. 39 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: It was really special cool. 40 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was a little I can go. We were 41 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 3: trying to figure out if we could get down there, 42 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 3: but it just it's too much going on, too going on. 43 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 3: Then you're just to stop having court cases and indictments 44 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 3: and stuff. 45 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, ninety one indictments must be a lot for. 46 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 3: You all to eight Now they've taken some of them off. 47 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 2: So oh wow. 48 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, well you are. You are doing the Lord 49 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: and all that is Holy's work. 50 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 2: So thank you so much. 51 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 3: Thank you. I appreciate you. I appreciate Yeah. 52 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 2: We appreciate you so Joy. 53 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:49,839 Speaker 1: I love to start with people because I do get 54 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: to sit across from people whose brains and courage I have, 55 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: you know, such intellectual crushes on. You have this incredible 56 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: career in your incredible journalist and author, and we all 57 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 1: know you as you know, Joy Anne Reid, who's taking us, 58 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: you know, into the halls of learning about America every 59 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: night on television. But I like to kind of rewind 60 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,119 Speaker 1: to before you became you know, this incredibly well known, 61 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: wonderful woman, and see if from this vantage point you 62 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: sit at today, when you look back over your life 63 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: and you look at little nine or ten year old Joy, 64 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: do you see the same kind of kernels of loving, 65 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: truth and justice in her? Or was she interested in 66 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: completely different things as you know, a little girl in 67 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: the fifth grade. 68 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 3: No, you know, it's funny that you say that, because 69 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 3: it was in the sixth grade that I really kind 70 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 3: of fell in love with news and information and with 71 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 3: knowing more about the world. I mean, I grew up 72 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 3: very nerdy kid with even the I had the coke 73 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 3: bottle glasses and everything legit, and so I was a 74 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 3: legit nerdy kid. But I really always did didn't have 75 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 3: like a hunger to learn. I always did love school. 76 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 3: I loved learning. I loved you know, I was a 77 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 3: weird kid that actually liked school and enjoyed it. And 78 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,839 Speaker 3: I enjoyed, you know, learning from my teachers and from 79 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 3: my mom and just from we were a traveling family. 80 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 3: We would do road trips with like a road trip family. 81 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 3: So we've just raised as a family that was ever curious. 82 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 3: But in sixth grade, and I'm going to age myself now, 83 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 3: the Iran hostage crisis happened, and I can still remember 84 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 3: asking my mom if I could sit up and watch 85 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 3: this show on ABC at night where Ted Kopple, and 86 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 3: it was just called Countdown three sixty five or whatever 87 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 3: they called it, and it was just so fat. I 88 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 3: just became consumed by it, and my mom let me 89 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 3: sit up and watch it every night, and then they 90 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 3: renamed the show Nightline. And I had just fallen in 91 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 3: love with the idea of news and information. I mean, 92 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 3: I watched the Sunday shows. I would watch the nightly news, 93 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 3: and my mom would let me sit up and do 94 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 3: it because she's like, at least it's educational, and she 95 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 3: loved news too, so it was like a bonding thing 96 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,159 Speaker 3: with me and my mom. So I always loved this, 97 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 3: but I just never I saw myself doing it for 98 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 3: a career. 99 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, that is so cool. I had a moment when 100 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,919 Speaker 1: I was in elementary school where I pitched my mom 101 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: that I wanted her to pick me up fifteen minutes 102 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: early from school because school ended at three, but Oprah 103 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: Wimfrey started at three, and I was like, Mom, there 104 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: is nothing happening in the last period, so if you 105 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: get me at two forty five, yeah, I can be 106 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: home like butt in Sea by the time Oprah starts. 107 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: And I learned much more from watching Oprah. My mom 108 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: was like, young, lady, this is not a trial. You 109 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: do not get to make an argument here, Like, no, 110 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: I'm not taking you out of school early. So I 111 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: love that you convinced your parents, so let you stay 112 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: it past your bedtime to watch Nightline. 113 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 2: That's amazing. 114 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. I loved Oprah too. Oprah was great. She was 115 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 3: like revolutionary because I had never really seen like, oh, 116 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 3: my lady doing all these things, and so there weren't 117 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 3: many black women, so she was like, I mean, she 118 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 3: really was inspiring to me. And I was transfixed by 119 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 3: that child watch her show and then Phil do he 120 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 3: was like right after, So I would watch that duo 121 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 3: that back to back Dueho. But other than when I 122 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 3: full and Oprah, you really didn't see women looked like 123 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 3: me doing anything that looked like news. So yeah, I'll 124 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 3: go Oprah. 125 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 2: Yeah incredible. 126 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: So so the Iran hostage situation, you know, piqued your 127 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: interest obviously, did you Did you stay interested in politics 128 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: or was it really that every aspect of the news 129 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: became fascinating to you when you were younger? 130 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 3: It was every aspect. But I really was intrigued by politics, 131 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 3: you know, American politics, and I and you know, I 132 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 3: was a Sunday show watcher and I was just intrigued 133 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 3: by kind of the drama of it. You know. I 134 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 3: kind of saw it as like its own version of 135 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 3: a soap opera, you know, because it was this sort 136 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 3: of constant clashing factions and like it was like a 137 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 3: Game of Thrones before Game of Thrones. So I really 138 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 3: got inted in politics, and by the time that I 139 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 3: got to high school. You know, I'm again aging myself. 140 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 3: Jesse Jackson had run the first time for president, and 141 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 3: so now you had this this guy running for president, 142 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 3: and we were just transfixed by my whole family, my 143 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 3: mom as well, and just all of the kind of 144 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,679 Speaker 3: intrigue around him, around Gary Hart getting kicked doubt for Emuel, 145 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 3: Lady said on his lap, like I thought this was 146 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 3: like the highest drama ever. So I also had, you know, 147 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 3: an interest in politics and was intrigued by it. And 148 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 3: actually the second time Jesse Jackson ran was the first 149 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 3: time I ever got to vote, because you know, we 150 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 3: would go with my mom to the polls. Once she 151 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 3: got her citizenship. She was a voter man. She voted 152 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 3: in everything. She voted local, state, school board like she 153 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 3: was a voter. And when she would vote, we the 154 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 3: kids would go with her. So she really inculcated in us, 155 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 3: you know, a sense of civic responsibility. I loved civics class. 156 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 3: I thought it was interesting. So history, civics, politics, I 157 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 3: loved all of it. 158 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 2: That's amazing. 159 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: So did that real focus and to your point that 160 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: the lore of getting to you know, live in this 161 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: country and vote and make your voice heard. I think 162 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: I have because I helped my dad's study. He became 163 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: a citizen when I was thirteen, and I remember what 164 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: a big deal that was. Yeah, did all of that 165 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: propel you into wanting to study at Harvard? What was 166 00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: that experience like for you? 167 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 3: Well, you know, as I do that. You know, the 168 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 3: immigrants come to the country and they have pretty much 169 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 3: three jobs they think that anyone should do. Doctor, lawyer, lawyer, architect, 170 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 3: doctor school. 171 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 2: Architect is on your list. 172 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 3: Okay, people was on the list. And so my mom, 173 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 3: you know, she was Caribbean, she came from Diana, and 174 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 3: you know that's what was in her mind. And so 175 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 3: we you know, we just were very mom pleasers, like 176 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 3: we were mama's kids. You know, my father who's from Congo. 177 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 3: We was pretty much in the Congo most of the time. 178 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 3: We didn't care what he thought. We heard what she thought. 179 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 3: And I made the mistake when I was about twelve 180 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 3: of saying I would be the doctor. My sister said 181 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 3: she'd be the lawyer, and my brother said he'd be 182 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 3: the architect. So that was kind of what was folk 183 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 3: that our minds were focused on. And I applied to 184 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 3: Harvard and the other schools I applied to PREMET, so 185 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 3: I got into all the schools I got into as 186 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 3: a pre met. But unfortunately, you know, my mom, who 187 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 3: was like literally sort of my biggest cheerleader, she died. 188 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 3: She actually passed away, like about twenty two days before 189 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 3: I started school. So some family friends, you know, took 190 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 3: me to school and I got there and I was 191 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 3: completely discombobulated. You know, for the first time, I failed class. 192 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 3: I had never gotten anything lower than the only thing 193 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 3: I ever did poorly. And I got to see in typing, 194 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 3: you know, we used to stick typing in high school. 195 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 3: I got to see and my mother was outraged. She's like, 196 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 3: you're gonna ruin my daughter's DPA. She was grown one crazy. 197 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 3: But so I had never gotten bad grades. I was, 198 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 3: you know, I'm so depressed that I just I couldn't focus. 199 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 3: I mean, I couldn't walk into a hospital without hyperventilating. 200 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 3: And so I realized that this this being a doctor 201 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 3: thing was not going to work out for me because 202 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 3: I just I didn't have any interest in it anymore. 203 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 3: I didn't have any passion for it, and it just 204 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 3: didn't work out. So I actually took a year off 205 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 3: to try to get myself together, went back lived with 206 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 3: my auntie Dolly in back to Brooklyn, where we originally 207 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 3: came from, and you know, had to figure out what 208 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 3: I was going to do. And when I went back, 209 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 3: I went back kind of different. I went back with 210 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 3: a mission of not trying to pick up where I 211 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 3: left off with pre men and to do something that 212 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 3: maybe I would be passionate about, you know. And so 213 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 3: I wound up actually majoring in what they call Visual 214 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 3: and Environmental Studies, which is a fancy way of saying 215 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 3: a documentary film major. They didn't I have like journalism, 216 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 3: you know, Harvard doesn't have pragmatic degrees, so that was 217 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 3: the closest thing to like a storytelling degree. And I 218 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 3: love to write. I used to always write short stories 219 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 3: as a kid. I used to entertain my sister and 220 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 3: brother by like telling them stories. I was like a 221 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 3: story person, and so I thought this was a cool 222 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 3: kind of major where I could major in something that 223 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 3: was about storytelling and about narrative. And I loved movies, 224 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 3: so that was one of my other passions. So that's 225 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 3: what I went back and did. And that's my weird, 226 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 3: odd way of doing something similar to journalism but not 227 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 3: exactly journalism. 228 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 2: That's so inspiring. 229 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: It's funny because I went, I went to school to 230 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: get a BFA in theater and went, wait a second, 231 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: this feels like too narrow a focus for me, right, 232 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: And I transferred into the journalism school at USC because 233 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: to me it sounds sort of like a kinship and 234 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: that feeling you had about documentary. It was a way 235 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: for me to shape real stories and understand how to 236 00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: apply narrative that would engage an audience to people's actual lives, 237 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,439 Speaker 1: which is my job as an actor. But I also 238 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: realized my job, my self appointed job, as an advocate 239 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: and an activist. And yeah, I just think journalism is 240 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 1: the most magic thing in the world. 241 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 3: I do too. And you know, it's funny because when 242 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 3: I transferred into you know, i'd lived with my aunt 243 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 3: for a while, but you know, I grew up Methodist 244 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,559 Speaker 3: and she was an evangelical Christians. That's like four nights 245 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 3: a week church, and that's a lot of church, a lot. 246 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,679 Speaker 3: So I moved out and I ended up actually moving 247 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 3: where Spike Lee lived. I moved to Fort Green, which 248 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 3: at the time was like very bohemian black. It was 249 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,719 Speaker 3: like black Bohemia and so I went back thinking I 250 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 3: would major in not documentary but like narrative film, and 251 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 3: so I was saying about it. Found out Harvard was 252 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 3: a little bit poopooing that they just only let you 253 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 3: do documentary, which I kind of resisted at first. But 254 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 3: the major was fascinating because vies, as they call it, 255 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 3: it gave you everything from history of architecture to history 256 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 3: of photography to actual practical photography, practical filmmaking and editing. 257 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 3: And it actually, you know, while I resisted the idea 258 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 3: that they were trying to lock us into documentary, actually 259 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 3: wound up falling in love with the idea of documentary 260 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 3: film because we were learning. To your point, it was 261 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 3: sort of a bigger, more unstructured way of learning about 262 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 3: narrative and story. But it was everything from learning about 263 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 3: Oscar Michau, you know, the black filmmaker from like the 264 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:24,080 Speaker 3: nineteen twenties or thirties, to learning about you know, Iranian 265 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 3: film and sort of you know, sort of narrative sort 266 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 3: of about liberation in the Middle East. And it was 267 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 3: so broad that it actually was a great education. That 268 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 3: was sort of my accidental sort of entry entree into 269 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 3: what would later become my journalistic career. 270 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. 271 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: Well, and then you fast forward and here you are, 272 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: you become Cable's first black female primetime anchor. And I 273 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: bet all of that knowledge you bring with you into 274 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: that newsroom every single day. 275 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 3: I think so. And you know, we're in this moment 276 00:12:57,840 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 3: now where like the Middle East is like a thing. 277 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 3: I had this weird advantage. I've never been there, I've 278 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 3: never landed in the region, but I was so fascinated 279 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 3: by that region. That's what brought me into the whole 280 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 3: love of news in the first place was the Iran 281 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 3: hostage prices, which meant I was going in the encyclopedia 282 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 3: sign I wanted to know everything about Iran, and then 283 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 3: I wanted to know everything about Iraq. I wanted to 284 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 3: know everything about the entire region. And so it's like 285 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 3: I was fascinated by everything about that region's history. It's conflicts, 286 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 3: it's stories, it's various religions, the sort of contexts of 287 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 3: Christianity versus Islam versus Judaism. Like, I'm into all of 288 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 3: that stuff. And I was lucky enough to have teachers 289 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 3: at mont Bello Junior Senior High School who were like 290 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 3: interesting people. You know, we had this teacher. We did 291 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 3: like applied religion, and we were actually learning about like 292 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 3: Hamarabi's code and all of this other stuff that you 293 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 3: didn't normally get in school. I had teachers that, like, 294 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 3: they actually stretched themselves to teach us, you know, in 295 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 3: my little town and for interesting, outre things, and so 296 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 3: I kind of went into By the time I was 297 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 3: a journalist, I kind of knew a little about a lot, 298 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 3: you know, and then it gave you this open door 299 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:12,840 Speaker 3: to learn a lot about a lot. So that's what 300 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 3: I do love about my job is that whatever my 301 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 3: curiosity is, I can take what I know that's a 302 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 3: little and I can expand and expand and expand it 303 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 3: and then find a way through narrative to share it 304 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 3: with my audience. 305 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: That's so beautiful. We'll be back in just a minute. 306 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: But here's a word from our sponsors. I can't help 307 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: but think you know in the way that you were 308 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,520 Speaker 1: watching Walter Cronkite, and that you know we were all 309 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: watching Oprah. Like now there's a lot of little girls 310 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: who a generation ago wouldn't have seen themselves represented on TV, 311 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: who get to watch you every night and who and 312 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: who get to watch you as you say, showcase your expertise, 313 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: your curiosity, you know, your ability to make sure you 314 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: are doing right now by people in regions where they 315 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: are subjected to as we're witnessing now, immense harm and 316 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: you know, immense geopolitical forces are warring with each other, 317 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: and you can you can sit in that anchor's chair 318 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: and tell one person's story, you know, one one girl 319 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: in the region, One one journalist you know who's out 320 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: there fighting to tell the truth from the front lines. 321 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: I mean, that's got to be a really incredible feeling 322 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: when you get to slow down in the newsroom enough 323 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: to have it. 324 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's heavy, though, you know. I mean people will 325 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 3: come up to me and sort of say kind of 326 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 3: that or like they'll treat that. And I did that 327 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 3: with Whenifel. You know, I actually met Gwhenifel in twenty fifteen. 328 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 3: I sort of humiliated myself, Like I saw her across 329 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 3: the street in Selma. It was like, you know, the 330 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 3: annual Selma of commemoration and I saw her and I'm like, 331 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 3: oh my god, I idolized this woman. So I like 332 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 3: ran across the street, not looking to see if there 333 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 3: were cars coming. So it was probably not wise. The way, 334 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 3: I just threw myself like a muppet and flung myself 335 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 3: at her. I said, Oh my god, quite ee feel 336 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 3: you know, you were everything to be. I'm such a 337 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 3: I'm such an admirer of views. Bl blah blah. She 338 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 3: was so sweet. She gave me a huge hug, and 339 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 3: she's like I And now when people come up to me, 340 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 3: I kind of see what she must have felt, because 341 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 3: it's odd to have a stranger come up to you 342 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 3: and say that. But it also really makes you feel 343 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 3: number one, a huge responsibility because you realize that you're 344 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 3: not just like giving the news for some people. You're 345 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 3: actually giving the news from a perspective that's them. They 346 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 3: hear them, and you're asking the questions they would ask 347 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 3: whether the person is you know, identifies with you racially 348 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 3: or in terms of gender, or in terms of region 349 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 3: where you're from. I'm from the West. Most of the 350 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 3: people who do this are from New York and DC. 351 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 3: You know, I'm from a part of the country people 352 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 3: don't really talk about, you know, out West, we're kind 353 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 3: of left out, or the Midwest if you're you know, 354 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 3: and whatever it is about me, whether it's I'm the 355 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 3: child of immigrants, you know, I've got some African background 356 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 3: and some Caribbean background, all of those things that I'm 357 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 3: bringing to the table. There's somebody out there that is 358 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 3: identifying with that. Yeah, So if like someone comes up 359 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 3: to me, it's very heavy. It makes me feel like 360 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 3: a huge responsibility. It's a bit intimidating in a way. 361 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 3: It makes me feel more responsible to do well. But 362 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 3: it also makes you feel really good because you're like, 363 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 3: you know what I'm representing somebody, like somebody feels seen 364 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,880 Speaker 3: because of me, and it makes you feel really good. 365 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. 366 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I can tell you as a woman 367 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: I obviously am, I'm an obsessive watcher of your show. 368 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: And there are days because I spend all day reading 369 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: the news like I can't help myself. 370 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 2: And there are days where. 371 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 1: I watch you do a piece and you will just 372 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: tell the truth and you will beat back the ridiculousness 373 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: of the quote unquote alternative facts coming from like the 374 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: right wing, and you just lay things bare and you 375 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: tell it like it is and you make sure people 376 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,959 Speaker 1: are getting the facts and the information, not ideas truth, 377 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 1: and it is so. 378 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 2: Relieving to me. And then there's moments where I'm like 379 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 2: I just. 380 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: Really hope when this segment wrap, somebody gives her a hug, 381 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: like I want to make sure your people are holding you, 382 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: because this has to be stressful and it has to 383 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: be hard, But my god, it is so meaningful that 384 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: not only do you do it, but that you do 385 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: it the way you do it well. 386 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 3: I appreciate that. Thank you, And I definitely look, we 387 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 3: have believe it or not as crazy as the new 388 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 3: cycle in it as miserable. Our little crew on the 389 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 3: set we are having the most fun. Like we are 390 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 3: giggling and laughing through all the break I almost wish 391 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 3: we could put the brakes on TV so that we 392 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 3: are giving each other the hugs like we are literally 393 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,959 Speaker 3: a fun, happy crew. That like because we realize, like 394 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 3: you can you can either let this stuff take you 395 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,719 Speaker 3: down or you can try to laugh and love your 396 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 3: way through it. And look, I mean, the thing is 397 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 3: I mean, even with with with the book that I wrote, 398 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,200 Speaker 3: I'm like, it's a love thing. I feel like we 399 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 3: still are surviving. This society's sort of this sort of 400 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,239 Speaker 3: come apart in a way, right, But what's keeping it 401 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 3: together is that there are enough of us who actually 402 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 3: love the country enough to try to hold it together, 403 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 3: and so it will hol see it together by thinner 404 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 3: and thinner strands. But there are I still believe enough 405 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 3: of us who have enough love for the place and 406 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 3: who have enough belief that it can be what it 407 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 3: says it is and what it you know, the idea 408 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,040 Speaker 3: is so good that even if those who tried to 409 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 3: execute it were rotten, you know, and some of them 410 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 3: are really you know, and some of the people who've 411 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,959 Speaker 3: attempted at it were bad people, but that doesn't mean 412 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 3: the idea is bad. That you could be a terrible 413 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,119 Speaker 3: person with a great idea. And so the idea is 414 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 3: so good that it brought my mother here, it brought 415 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 3: my father here, it brought your dad here, it brought 416 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 3: your family here. So there's something compelling about this idea. 417 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 3: And I think if we hold on to that, it's 418 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 3: less depressing, right because we realize that we're actually fighting 419 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 3: for something good and that no one's ever done before. 420 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 3: The multiracial democracy is super hard. Like almost everybody in 421 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 3: Japan is Japanese, almost everyone in China is Chinese, almost 422 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 3: everyone in Britain. I think Britain has like what six percent, No, 423 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 3: it's like a tiny percentage of people in Britain are 424 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 3: not white British Europeans, and so we have this huge 425 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 3: task ahead of us to create this multi racial democracy 426 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 3: that is very hard to do. So it's not like 427 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 3: we're failing because we're failing at something easy, right, we're 428 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 3: slowly succeeding and then failing a little bit, and then 429 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,120 Speaker 3: slowly succeeding and failing a little bit at something hard. 430 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: Yes, that's beautiful though, And I want to talk about 431 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 1: your book because it felt like such a breath of 432 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: fresh air for me as a person because of the 433 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:44,439 Speaker 1: love story, and it was so inspiring because it is 434 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: a history lesson, but it's told through this personal narrative. 435 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: It very similarly for me to the way that Ava 436 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: Duverne adopted isabel Wilkerson's cast. You know, Origin as a 437 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: film is Isabelle's story, her love story of about her, 438 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: her husband, her family inside of her academic project. And 439 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: you have given us the story of Medgar and Merley 440 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: as surrounded by their love. And what it makes me 441 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 1: see as your storytelling about your daily work is that 442 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: in a way, that's what your newsroom is like. It's 443 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: a family, and inside of it you're doing the news. 444 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: But it's the family that fortifies you to be able 445 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: to do the work, so can can I was going 446 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,439 Speaker 1: to ask you how you cover the news and manage 447 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:35,479 Speaker 1: to relax among the heavy, but I'm like, oh, now 448 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:36,879 Speaker 1: I know how, so I don't need to ask you 449 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 1: that question. 450 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 3: Come hang out with us. We're so much fun. 451 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:40,959 Speaker 2: I mean, oh my god, I can't wait. I'll come 452 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 2: be your intern anytime. 453 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 3: So no, come on, just come on, you can come on. 454 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 3: You can come on be a co host. Okay, Look, 455 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 3: if invitation sent and accepted, I think that would be fun. 456 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 3: I mean, like, the reality is is, like, you know, 457 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 3: the thing that that happens when you actually meet civil 458 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 3: rights leaders and civil rights heroes, is that one of 459 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 3: the things is you go, oh my god, I just 460 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 3: med a civil rights like heroes, right, But then you 461 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 3: also go, oh my god, this is a regular person. 462 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 3: You know, you're a human, They're a human. And I 463 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 3: will never forget I the first time I ever met 464 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 3: in person Revenul Sharpton, for instance. So when I'm you know, 465 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 3: when my mom passed, I move, we moved back to Brooklyn, right, 466 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,439 Speaker 3: so I'm back living with my with my auntie. And 467 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 3: then even when I moved out. So we're in this 468 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,880 Speaker 3: era where you know, Rev. Sharpton is very much involved 469 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 3: in politics. He's very much involved in all the civic 470 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 3: upheaval in New York. And then at one point, like 471 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,360 Speaker 3: he runs for office, like I think this is the first 472 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 3: time he ran for mayor. And so I'm in Brooklyn 473 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 3: and I go to this place called the Brooklyn Tennis 474 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,879 Speaker 3: Club and I'm walking in. I'm late, I'm running to 475 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 3: get into this event. Reverend Sharpton is coming out and 476 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 3: we bumped into each other. And this is when he 477 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 3: wasn't skinny and slim like he is now. He was 478 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 3: like a big dude, and he bumped me. And I 479 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 3: was so embarrassed that I bumped into Reverend Sharpton, and 480 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 3: he said, oh, I'm so sorry, young Lanne. I'm so sorry. 481 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:54,959 Speaker 3: I'm sorry, young lady. And I was like, great, the 482 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 3: one time I'm ever gonna meet now Sharton, who I 483 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 3: like lionize, is because I'm a lesson. I ran into 484 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 3: him like like a duke, you know. So I never 485 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 3: would have imagined I'd ever actually then meet him again. 486 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 3: And the next time I met him, I was working here. 487 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,400 Speaker 3: I was working for at the time Deegreo dot com 488 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 3: in the NBC building and it's like, now he's like 489 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 3: my friend, Like he's I call my big brother because 490 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 3: he's like a big brother to me. And it's like 491 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 3: it's so surreal. But what it's taught me is that 492 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 3: Reverend NOWL. Sharpton this like hero to me as a 493 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 3: young like a teenager in New York, as the person 494 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 3: fighting for us is just a regular person. And so 495 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 3: he has regular person things. He got kids, you know, 496 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 3: and they're interested people. You know, he has normal stuff. 497 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 3: He goes at the dinner like and so with even 498 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 3: with the Mega and Merley piece. When I met Marley Evers, 499 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 3: I realized this is an icon. She's a person. She 500 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 3: had a love, she fell in love. She had a 501 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 3: you know, a boyfriend. She didn't want to tell her 502 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 3: auntie and her grandma about because he was too old 503 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 3: for her. She he didn't want to like her, He 504 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 3: didn't want to say he liked her. So she had 505 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 3: this whole anxiety that does he really like me? Does 506 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 3: he not like me? They got married. She moved like 507 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 3: a dusty part of Mississippi. She didn't want to live there. 508 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 3: She was annoyed because he was never home. They had 509 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 3: fights about regular person stuff, the budget, did they have 510 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 3: enough money? Is she making dinner? All the regular things, 511 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 3: And that, to me was the most fascinating aspect of 512 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 3: telling a story like this, because civil rights was just 513 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 3: regular people doing this heroic thing, but they were still people. 514 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: So can you talk to us a little bit about 515 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: what your goal was with writing this book in this 516 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: way and tell the listeners at home a little bit 517 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: about them, you know, both as these civil rights leaders 518 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: and as a couple for the folks who don't have 519 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: the expert view into them that you do, because they're 520 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,479 Speaker 1: going to go out and get your book and then 521 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: they will, oh, I love that. 522 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 3: Well. I mean I partly wrote the book because of that, because, 523 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 3: like MegaR Evers is the name of the airport when 524 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 3: you land in Jackson, Mississippi. But a lot of people 525 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 3: do not know who that it is, right, It's like 526 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 3: there are a lot of airports where who knows what? 527 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 3: You know? I didn't know Stapleton Airport was named after. 528 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 3: You know, I think Stapleton was the governor of Colorado 529 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 3: at some point. I think he was a plansman. They 530 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 3: changed the name eventually. It's not called Stapleton anymore, but 531 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 3: you don't know. I went to a school called McGlone Elementary. 532 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 3: Growing up, I had no idea who McGlone was. I'm 533 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 3: sorry for Ford. I went to McGlone Elementary, but before that, 534 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 3: I went to Ford Elementary. Barney Ford. Barney Ford was 535 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 3: like a civil rights hero in Denver, Colorado, who desegregated 536 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 3: Denver schools. I didn't know, but I went to that 537 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 3: school and we just knew it was called Barney four. 538 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 3: We didn't knowho that was. I don't still don't know 539 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 3: who Maglone is. You know, that was my other school. 540 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 3: So we oftentimes live in places where we don't know 541 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 3: the person behind the thing, and MegaR was one of 542 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 3: those names people have kind of heard. You know, there's 543 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 3: a there's a there's a famous folk song called Medgar 544 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 3: Evers laid Down. You know his life. There's there's like 545 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 3: songs about him, but people don't know it is. And 546 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 3: once I knew Merley More, it kind of bothered me 547 00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 3: that people didn't know he is, because this guy is 548 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 3: the person James Baldwin said is one of the three 549 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 3: great civil rights leaders in history, Malcolm X, doctor Martin 550 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 3: Luther King, Junior and MegaR Evers. That's what James Baldwin said. 551 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 3: So I wrote the book number one so that people 552 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 3: would know who MegaR Evers was and his sacrifices literally 553 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 3: for our right to vote. I wrote in number two 554 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 3: because I love Marley Evers Williams, and I think she's 555 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 3: an awesome person, and I think people should know who 556 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 3: she is and what she did, and that she's still 557 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 3: here and still part of the overall mission of making 558 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 3: America better. And I wrote it for the third reason 559 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 3: because I actually just wanted to write something that I 560 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 3: would enjoy. I wanted to not write a history book. 561 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 3: I wanted to write a love story, and I had 562 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 3: never read a civil rights love story, so I said, 563 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:41,719 Speaker 3: I'll just write one. 564 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: We'll be back in just a minute after a few 565 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: words from our favorite sponsors. The thing I can't quite 566 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: get over, and then I want the listeners at home 567 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: to really think about, is that you, in writing the 568 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: book this way, you have reminded us of who these 569 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: people were. And what I mean by that is that 570 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: sometimes it just takes a person who looks at something 571 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: wrong and says, well, if if they're not going to 572 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: change it, then maybe I have to change it. When 573 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 1: you think about the fact, these these men and their partners, 574 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: you know, doctor King and Kreta, MegaR and Murley, these 575 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: people who decided to pressurize America to actually begin to 576 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: reach her ideals, to actually begin to be the nation 577 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 1: where all people were treated equally, because my God, were 578 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: far from it and were still certainly not there. That 579 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: they weren't just people with historical fact behind them, and 580 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 1: they weren't just folks who became experts on the constitution, 581 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: and they weren't just you know, leaders. They were young 582 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: people who were they were young, They were students who 583 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: met on campuses and fell in love, and they were afraid. 584 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 2: This was terrifying. 585 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 1: It is terrifying to organize sit ins and bus boycotts 586 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:19,520 Speaker 1: and protests for justice where you know, as you mentioned 587 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: the anniversary of Selma, we can look back at those photographs. 588 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 1: Every year we see people being beaten and assaulted and 589 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: you know, having police dogs sicked on them, I mean, 590 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 1: unspeakable violence simply for saying I deserve to be treated 591 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: better than this, and to remind us of our humanity. 592 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: I think inside of as you say, these people who've 593 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: been lionized sometimes we think of them as being larger 594 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: than life, and it's so special to remember that they 595 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: were trying to figure out how to pursue justice in 596 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: our country while also trying to figure out, like who's 597 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: getting the groceries on Friday, if we're going to be 598 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: home for the weekend, that's right, and that's that's such 599 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: a it's such a detail that I think sometimes in 600 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: our history books we miss. 601 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 3: Absolutely you know, one of the most profound interviews that 602 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 3: we did because you know, my husband and I my 603 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 3: husband's the documentary filmmakerr and so we actually went down 604 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 3: to Jackson. We spent a good panet it. We actually 605 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 3: ran in an airbnb that was across the street from 606 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 3: the house where the person who used to run the 607 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 3: White Citizens Council used to live. And so when people 608 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 3: were coming for the interviews, they would all say, do 609 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 3: you know what's across the street because it's now like 610 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 3: an inn where you can do weddings and stuff, and 611 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 3: it's like, oh wow. People would all whisper, they would 612 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 3: almost whisper, like they like they want to be you 613 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 3: know where you are across the street. We we're like, yeah, 614 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 3: we know. It's like it's really we're in the mix, right, 615 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 3: So we ranted this airbnb and we asked people to 616 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 3: come and sit for the interviews because we knew, you know, 617 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 3: the median age of who we were interviewing were all 618 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 3: like eighty. You know, we were interviewing a lot of 619 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 3: older people, and so we if we could, we went 620 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 3: to them. But a lot of people wanted to come 621 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 3: to and we also wanted to be kind of quiet. 622 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 3: We didn't want to be in a hotel or bring 623 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 3: in a whole MSNBC vibe. We just went down very 624 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 3: low key. So we're in this airbnb and a lot 625 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 3: of people came by, and again they're in their seventies, sixties, seventies, eighties, 626 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 3: but some of the youngest people were children at the time. 627 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 3: And one of the animals that really stayed with me 628 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,479 Speaker 3: were the Sweets. So the Sweets are a brother and 629 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 3: sister who lived down the street from MegaR and Merley Evers, 630 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 3: and they played with the Evers kids. They were their besties, 631 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 3: and they the young the man who was a boy 632 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 3: at the time, he said to me, what a lot 633 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 3: of people don't think about is that when you assassinate 634 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 3: a man in his driveway in front of his house. 635 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 3: You've essentially assassinated the childhoods of every kid on that block. 636 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 3: Because MegaR was the fun dad who used to throw 637 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 3: the football with the boys. You took that away. MegaR 638 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 3: was the dad who would put all the kids in 639 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 3: his oldmobile Rocket eighty eight, which had a drop you 640 00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,360 Speaker 3: could drop the top, and he would go out then 641 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 3: drive them to the drive in movie so they could 642 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 3: all watch Psycho, which Murley got really mad that they 643 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 3: lived to go see Psycho. They really wanted to see it. 644 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 3: So MegaR was the fund dead. It was like, come on, 645 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 3: I'll take you all to go see Psycho. He's the 646 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 3: guy who, you know, the other dads went fishing with 647 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 3: right the sweet's father used to fish with him. Across 648 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 3: the street neighbor was one of his best friends. The 649 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 3: next door neighbor was his friend and a fellow NAACP guy. 650 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 3: You literally killed all of their childhoods. And so it's like, 651 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 3: these are real people who lived on a block, who 652 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 3: had friends, who had girls' nights. They used to have 653 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 3: a garden club that Murley was a member of. They 654 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 3: all would get together in garden. They were trying their 655 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 3: best as black people in Mississippi in the nineteen fifties 656 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 3: and sixties to have a normal life. They just wanted 657 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 3: to do normal stuff. They just wanted to go and 658 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 3: shop in the store and try on the clothes to 659 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 3: make sure they fit. They couldn't. They just wanted to 660 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 3: take their kids to the library. They couldn't. They just 661 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 3: wanted their kids to go to the zoo like all 662 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 3: the white kids. They couldn't. And there came a point 663 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 3: when Black Americans said, enough, we're paying taxes too. We 664 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 3: just want our kids to go to a decent school 665 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 3: that's not a shack, that's got modern textbooks. They can 666 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 3: ride in a school bus like those other kids and 667 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 3: not have to walk three miles. Why are we doing this, 668 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 3: especially after World War Two? Because these men, one hundred 669 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 3: thousand or more black men volunteered to go find a 670 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 3: World War two, and when they came home, they said, 671 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 3: absolutely not. We're not going to go back to second 672 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 3: class citizenship. We also fought in this war and we're 673 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 3: going to insist on our rights. And MegaR Evers was 674 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 3: one of those men. He's a twenty five year old. 675 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 3: He comes back and he's got a twenty five year 676 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 3: old attitude and He's like, I am not sitting in 677 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 3: the back of this bus, not another day. 678 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: It's profound, and I think to talk about the timing 679 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 1: of it, you know, when you really think about the fact, 680 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: as you said, that a lot of these people are 681 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: still alive. Really, you know, you you sat down to 682 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: interview her several times. You know, when we think about her, 683 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: when we think about the famous photos of Ruby Bridgers, 684 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: you know, being escorted into school by state troopers when 685 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 1: they were integrating her school. She is still alive. She 686 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: is in her sixties. Yeah, Like for you know, the 687 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: people who watch this podcast who grew up with me 688 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: on One Tree Hill, Like, y'all, I'm forty one. If 689 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: she's in her sixties, like, we're not even talking a 690 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: generation above me. 691 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 2: She's younger than my parents, right. 692 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: You know, So this this weird thing that we're seeing 693 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 1: this especially on you know, you talk about it a 694 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: lot that we see on the right, this backlash. You know, 695 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: we can't possibly tell the truth, We can't let kids 696 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: know about these things. We're going to change what you 697 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: learn in school. It's not just our history, it's still 698 00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: our present. Yeah, and you know, I think it's incredibly 699 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: important for us for anybody who feels fired up from 700 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: this conversation, examine the ways in your own life, however 701 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: you identify or would be identified, Examine the ways in 702 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: which you have experienced oppression. Like Joy, I don't go 703 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,319 Speaker 1: through what you go through as a black woman, but 704 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: I know what it is to be judged and oppressed 705 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: because of my gender, and all it makes me think 706 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: of is I go through enough bullshit every day. I'm 707 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: enraged all the time, and if it's worse for you, 708 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: it's my job to then say, well, what is my 709 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 1: responsibility to help change? Because I'm tired. I can't imagine 710 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,880 Speaker 1: how tired you are. And I think we have to 711 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,760 Speaker 1: start looking at each other in those ways to say 712 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: I know how hard it is, and if someone has 713 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: it worse than me, it's my job to make sure 714 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: I don't make it worse. And for the people who 715 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: have it easier than us, well then it's their job 716 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,359 Speaker 1: to help us too. And I I really hope that 717 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: this sort of aha moment that is sobering and then 718 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 1: inspiring to action is to be reminded that all these 719 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: people are still alive, and if they did this much fighting, 720 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,479 Speaker 1: and if they did this much standing, up for us 721 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: like our generation certainly has to keep our foot on 722 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: the gas. 723 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 3: Absolutely. And you know, when I would do like speeches 724 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 3: back years ago, when I would give speeches in colleges, 725 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 3: I would remind young people that, you know you talk 726 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 3: about Medgar, Malcolm, and Martin, none of them were ever forty. 727 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 3: Kobe Bryant died at forty one, so each of those 728 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 3: men were at least two years younger. In the case 729 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,240 Speaker 3: of MegaR, he was thirty seven when he died, Malcolm 730 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,239 Speaker 3: X was thirty nine, and doctor King was thirty nine. 731 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 3: They never were forty, so think about how young that is. 732 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,600 Speaker 3: So that means their wives, who were all younger than them, 733 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 3: would have been right. And so the only one alive 734 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 3: of the three widows is of course Merly. But she, 735 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,399 Speaker 3: to your point, she's younger than my mom would have been. 736 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,840 Speaker 3: Had my mom lived, my mom would have been older 737 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,959 Speaker 3: than Miss Murley. So these are people who are contemporaries. 738 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 3: You think about John Lewis, the Great John Lewis. When 739 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 3: Emmett Till was killed, he and John Lewis were the 740 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 3: same age. So Emmett Till had lived, he would have 741 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 3: been the age of John Lewis. So we're talking about 742 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,399 Speaker 3: a we're talking about contemporary history. And to your point 743 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 3: about the empathy across these lines, one of the stories 744 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 3: that I tell in the book that really infuriated me 745 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,919 Speaker 3: and drove me nuts is that after MegaR Evers died, 746 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,360 Speaker 3: Merley had to then figure out her whole life because 747 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 3: remember she was his secretary for a while. She actually 748 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 3: worked for him, so she was a literal part of 749 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 3: his advocacy when he's working at the insurance company, and 750 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 3: at first when he was with the NAACP, she was 751 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 3: his secretary. Once she had her third child, she decided 752 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 3: to stop working and be a stay at home mom. 753 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 3: But that was not usual for black women. Most black 754 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 3: women have always had to work. This whole fifties housewive 755 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 3: sort of iconography, it never applied to black women. But 756 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,719 Speaker 3: she was a rare black housewife. So she actually was 757 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,720 Speaker 3: the mom who took all the other kids to school 758 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,319 Speaker 3: on the block. She would pick up all the other 759 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 3: kids and pick them up from school because most of 760 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 3: the other women were teachers. But when her husband died, 761 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 3: Merley then had to She then ultimately decided to leave 762 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 3: Mississippi and moved to California. When she went to the 763 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 3: bank to try to open a bank account. They wouldn't 764 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,240 Speaker 3: open it for her. Why because women in this country, 765 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,279 Speaker 3: whether they were white, Black, Asian, American, Latino, doesn't matter 766 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 3: as long as you were a woman. Even white women 767 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 3: could not open a bank account without a man's signature. 768 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 3: Until nineteen seventy four, women in this country got the 769 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,359 Speaker 3: right to abortion, a year before we got the right 770 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 3: to open up bank account, meaning that Barbara Walters, the 771 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,879 Speaker 3: Great Barbara Walters, icon of Mine and icon, the late 772 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 3: Great Barbara Walters, when she was doing her landmark interviews 773 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 3: in the nineteen sixties, she couldn't open up bank account. 774 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,720 Speaker 3: That's how women are all connected, and we as women 775 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,840 Speaker 3: are all on the same side of one issue. That 776 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,319 Speaker 3: there are a certain amount of men who don't want 777 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 3: us to be individuals with any rights at all, no 778 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 3: rights at all. And we're pushing back not just on 779 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,360 Speaker 3: the rights of black folks to have our history told, 780 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 3: to have access to elite universities, et cetera. Women are 781 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 3: being told, regardless of our race, that we don't belong 782 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 3: in the workplace, that we don't belong because affirmative action 783 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 3: benefits white women more than a benefits black people. So 784 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,120 Speaker 3: we're being told no more access, no more individual rights, 785 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 3: and soon no more birth control, no more control over 786 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 3: your reproduction. That's where we're headed, and it's not a 787 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 3: good place for any of us. 788 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,319 Speaker 1: It's very scary, And to your point, it's not accidental. 789 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: Women have more economic power than ever in history, that's right, 790 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,400 Speaker 1: And women who look like me and who vote on 791 00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: the right are more supportive than abortion and reproductive freedom 792 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,240 Speaker 1: than ever. So they're going, oh, we're losing all the women, 793 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,320 Speaker 1: and they are pushing back on us in every avenue 794 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,400 Speaker 1: that they can. But what is upsetting to me is knowing, 795 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,399 Speaker 1: to your point, when they do away with affirmative action, yes, 796 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: it benefits more women who look like me than don't, 797 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 1: but it will always hurt women that are black, Latina, Asian, American, 798 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera even more. And so when we 799 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 1: think about the way that we have to activate for 800 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,880 Speaker 1: each other, the way that we should remember that we 801 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: are fifty one percent of the population and vote like it, 802 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:40,480 Speaker 1: I really do believe it is reminders. It's women like you, 803 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: it's women like Merly, it's so many of the women 804 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: in my life, across generational lines, who I look at 805 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:50,840 Speaker 1: and go, You've all told us what's at stake. You've 806 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: done the work. I mean, you enjoy You've written this 807 00:39:52,800 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 1: beautiful book for us to really personalize this great, multuous 808 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,360 Speaker 1: time in our history. And these are the kinds of 809 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,720 Speaker 1: lessons I think that can remind us of our power. 810 00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 1: You know, to your point, Merley had to reinvent a 811 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:15,279 Speaker 1: life when her husband was assassinated, and the fact that 812 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,840 Speaker 1: she is still alive and able to tell these stories 813 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 1: is I mean, what an inspiring woman can you? Can 814 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: you like, give us a little bit of a behind 815 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,240 Speaker 1: the scenes kind of look in to what it felt 816 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,920 Speaker 1: like to sit with her? You know, what kind of 817 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:32,359 Speaker 1: a woman is she? 818 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:33,280 Speaker 2: What is her? 819 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,000 Speaker 1: Because I've read the book, but I'm like, what does her. 820 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 2: Voice sound like? 821 00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 3: Like? 822 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,319 Speaker 2: What was it like to sit and just kiki with her? 823 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:41,799 Speaker 2: I want to know everything. 824 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,839 Speaker 3: Listen at first about her voice. Her voice is so rich, 825 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,759 Speaker 3: like of this so to speaks like this, and I 826 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 3: wish I spoke like that, like if I so regal. Listen, 827 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 3: she sounds like the queen of the world. She's fabulous 828 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,040 Speaker 3: And the first half a dozen interviews were by phone 829 00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,399 Speaker 3: with with with great help from her Her daughter, Rina, 830 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 3: the middle child, and she, you know, she put us 831 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 3: on the phone with her because her mom is a senior, 832 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,799 Speaker 3: you know, she's a seasoned citizen. You can't just call 833 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,799 Speaker 3: her on the sale. You got her like calls. And 834 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,320 Speaker 3: then we got a chance to fly out to California, 835 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,840 Speaker 3: uh to Claremont, where she lives, and go and actually 836 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,799 Speaker 3: she came down to where her son lives, so she 837 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:21,879 Speaker 3: was she came to her son's house and her son 838 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:23,840 Speaker 3: goes and sees her like every day, three days a 839 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 3: week or whatever, because he's on the West Coast with her. 840 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 3: So she came to his house and we did this 841 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:32,319 Speaker 3: epic interview with her there. So I went, my husband went, 842 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,799 Speaker 3: because again we're like, we're gonna film this interview for posterity, 843 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:36,799 Speaker 3: because we just want to have it for the you know, 844 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:38,840 Speaker 3: for the future. Who knows what will happen to it, 845 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:40,799 Speaker 3: but maybe you know, the Ford Foundation. A while, we're like, 846 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,360 Speaker 3: we need to film this because it's she's so epic. 847 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,759 Speaker 3: We get there and her niece, who is the only 848 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 3: person who does her makeup, did her makeup for her, 849 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 3: because she's always gonna even though we're like, we're not 850 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,719 Speaker 3: filming a documentary. We're just literally just filming. We just 851 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,200 Speaker 3: but she was fully made up, darling. She looked fabulous. 852 00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 3: She's a Delta like myself, Delta sigma theta. So she 853 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,319 Speaker 3: had heautiful red. She had a fabulous red lip. And 854 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,080 Speaker 3: when I tell you, and my sister came with us, 855 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 3: because my sister lives in La she's an actress. June, 856 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,399 Speaker 3: Carol shout out to June, and so she came with us, 857 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 3: and we literally stayed all day. They almost had to 858 00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,760 Speaker 3: evict us from that house. We had so much fun 859 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 3: with Van, his wife, his kids, Miss Merley, and we 860 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 3: had the most glorious day with her. She is funny, 861 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 3: she is feisty, she is silly, she is goofy. She 862 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 3: is in love with Medger Wiley everst to this day. 863 00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 3: We'll tell you that fifty five times, if you ask 864 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 3: her fifty six questions. She is as intense about that 865 00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,919 Speaker 3: love as she was the first time I spoke with her, 866 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:46,839 Speaker 3: as it was the fifth time I spoke with her. 867 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,279 Speaker 3: And she also is very centered in her mission. She 868 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 3: still has this mission, carrying on his mission of changing 869 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,840 Speaker 3: this country for the better. She still engages with young people, 870 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:02,600 Speaker 3: writes op Eds she's still engaged with Pomona College, which 871 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 3: is where she graduated finally from college. You'll note in 872 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 3: the books she drops out of school to marry her man, 873 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 3: but she finishes her education at Pomona. She's their most 874 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,440 Speaker 3: famous alum and most beloved alump. And she's still doing 875 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,320 Speaker 3: the work. And the thing I think that's the most 876 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 3: important Sothia is she's still hopeful, she's still positive. She 877 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:25,719 Speaker 3: never let the negativity and the genuine anger because you know, 878 00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,239 Speaker 3: as women, we're not supposed to access our age, right, 879 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 3: We're never supposed to be anger. And you know, my 880 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:32,719 Speaker 3: favorite chapter in the book is how to be a 881 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:34,839 Speaker 3: Civil Rights Widow, because I talk about that this sort 882 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,279 Speaker 3: of you've just lost the love of your life. You're 883 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,440 Speaker 3: now a widow and a mother of three. But you're 884 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 3: not supposed to protrude. You're not supposed to exude any anger. 885 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,920 Speaker 3: You're supposed to be demure and still be feminine and 886 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,239 Speaker 3: still and look perfect. And that was what she had 887 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 3: to do. And she's the first civil rights widow on 888 00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,279 Speaker 3: a national level. So Dan rather is in her face 889 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,960 Speaker 3: as soon as she walks out of her house in tears, 890 00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 3: and so but despite all of those pressures and having 891 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:03,520 Speaker 3: to tell her husband's story for six decades and not 892 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,320 Speaker 3: allow him to be misunderstood. She's still hopeful, she still 893 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,880 Speaker 3: loves this country, she still believed this country can be better, 894 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:12,359 Speaker 3: and she's still working for it. 895 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:19,520 Speaker 1: And now for our sponsors, I mean, six decades of 896 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:24,440 Speaker 1: carrying that torch, keeping that fire alive. We also are having, 897 00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,960 Speaker 1: it seems as of late, these very real conversations about 898 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:32,319 Speaker 1: why so often the wives who are really the partners 899 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 1: of these civil rights leaders get left out of the stories. 900 00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 1: You know, you hear Bernice King talk so much about 901 00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,719 Speaker 1: Karta Scott King, about the fact that she was the 902 00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,080 Speaker 1: first person that doctor King would go to, would bounce 903 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 1: ideas off of, would write with, would would dream and 904 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,839 Speaker 1: ide eight for a better America with. And we know 905 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:55,399 Speaker 1: as you talk about the activism of Merley, that they 906 00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 1: must have had such a similar dynamic, They had such 907 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:03,360 Speaker 1: a similar dynas. Why do you think the women have 908 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,239 Speaker 1: been left out of these stories when they've had such 909 00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:10,440 Speaker 1: an impact on the civil rights movement? And why do 910 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,400 Speaker 1: you think it's now that they're being acknowledged in the 911 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 1: way that perhaps well that they don't perhaps acknowledged, I 912 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,440 Speaker 1: should say that now they are perhaps being acknowledged in 913 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:20,520 Speaker 1: the way they always should have. 914 00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:24,640 Speaker 3: I think, unfortunately, it's misogyny. You know, it's this story. 915 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,920 Speaker 3: It's a train that's never late. Even during the movement. 916 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,799 Speaker 3: You know, there's a story about the Big six at 917 00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,960 Speaker 3: the March on Washington, including no women. And in fact, 918 00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,440 Speaker 3: Murley was the only woman even invited to make a 919 00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,240 Speaker 3: presentation on the big stage because she was Meger's widow. 920 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 3: They actually invited and Is Murley to present, but they 921 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:47,400 Speaker 3: didn't invite any other women. And this is something that 922 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,319 Speaker 3: Kretascott King writes about in her memoir, and she was 923 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:53,680 Speaker 3: arranged about it because in her mind, the women were 924 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,440 Speaker 3: doing so much of the work, you know, not only 925 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,759 Speaker 3: the women who were helping to you know, sort of 926 00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:02,400 Speaker 3: create you know, snick was in partly it was mentored 927 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,880 Speaker 3: and created by women. You know, women were working so 928 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,400 Speaker 3: hard behind the scenes and the movement. If they weren't 929 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 3: a frontline activist, they were the people typing up all 930 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 3: the memos, They were the people typing up all the flyers, 931 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,040 Speaker 3: They were the people distributing out the flyers. Many of 932 00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 3: the activists, many of the people getting fire hosed, were women, 933 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,480 Speaker 3: and the women got pushed to the back, even within 934 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,040 Speaker 3: the movement, but also in the narrative, because again, much 935 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,120 Speaker 3: of this was taking place in the nineteen fifties and 936 00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 3: early nineteen sixties, when the idea of women's leadership just 937 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,760 Speaker 3: wasn't a thing in America. People didn't acknowledge the presence 938 00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,480 Speaker 3: of women, and it was just something that women weren't. 939 00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:40,719 Speaker 3: By the way, all the reporters were men, All the 940 00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 3: reports were white men. There were no women reporters. You know, 941 00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,600 Speaker 3: Barbara Walks comes along much later in the late nineteen 942 00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,080 Speaker 3: sixties early seventies. So everyone confronting you for the story 943 00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:52,160 Speaker 3: is a man. All the cameramen are men, all the 944 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,360 Speaker 3: editors are men, All the executives and the media companies 945 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,160 Speaker 3: are men. And so white men are making the narrative, 946 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,799 Speaker 3: and they make the narrative around other men, and so 947 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,239 Speaker 3: they just don't see the women. They become invisible. But 948 00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,440 Speaker 3: what happens is that when these three men die, Malcolm 949 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:11,400 Speaker 3: Medgar Martin, the only people left to tell the full 950 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:14,040 Speaker 3: story are the women that they were married to. Because 951 00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,239 Speaker 3: the closest person to them, to your point, their chief advisor, 952 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,680 Speaker 3: the sounding board for their speeches, the person they rehearsed 953 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 3: the speeches with. The people who type the speech were 954 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 3: their wives, and so the person who knew them best 955 00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,440 Speaker 3: were their wives. And so the one who is the 956 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:32,960 Speaker 3: most epic at having created a whole camelot because actually 957 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:37,560 Speaker 3: that also fell to Jackie Onassis when Kennedy died, When 958 00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:39,920 Speaker 3: President Kennedy died, she did the same thing. But the 959 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:44,600 Speaker 3: first creator of a camelot was really, in many minds, Coretta. 960 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,560 Speaker 3: Coretta Scott King dove into this task of creating the 961 00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 3: legacy of doctor King. But the person who did that 962 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:56,800 Speaker 3: first was Merley. She began to write the Legacy of Medger, 963 00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:00,240 Speaker 3: but unfortunately it got sort of run over by everything 964 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:03,040 Speaker 3: from the March on Washington to the assassination of JFK. 965 00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,719 Speaker 3: But she did it first, and she did it brilliantly well. 966 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,840 Speaker 1: And it's it's such a full circle moment, even in 967 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,439 Speaker 1: our conversation, because at the core of. 968 00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:13,920 Speaker 2: That is the love. 969 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,879 Speaker 1: You love someone enough to keep their light alive. And 970 00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,359 Speaker 1: that's what your whole book is framed in, is that 971 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:25,160 Speaker 1: it is a love story. And I even think of activism, 972 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,440 Speaker 1: I think of leaders of movements. You have to love 973 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:33,759 Speaker 1: your country enough to demand that it. 974 00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:35,720 Speaker 2: Love everyone back. 975 00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,440 Speaker 1: Yes, you have to love a country enough to be 976 00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:42,080 Speaker 1: willing to lay down your life for its highest ideals. 977 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,799 Speaker 1: And you know it is. It is a tragedy and 978 00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:50,279 Speaker 1: a robbery to have lost these men and there, and 979 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:53,160 Speaker 1: the love that their wives had for them kept their 980 00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,440 Speaker 1: legacies alive and continues to to this day. 981 00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,440 Speaker 2: It's pretty profound, it is. 982 00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,000 Speaker 3: And to me, it's a love. It's a multiple love story. 983 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,839 Speaker 3: It's a love story between two people. It's a love 984 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,960 Speaker 3: of family, it's a love of your people, it's a 985 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,279 Speaker 3: love of your country. But there's also the girlfriend love. 986 00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:12,960 Speaker 3: You know, once Meger is gone, that girlfriend love between 987 00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:17,560 Speaker 3: Coretta and Betty Shabbaz and Met and Merley, that is 988 00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,200 Speaker 3: another kind of love. They were like the group chat 989 00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,240 Speaker 3: before there were group chats. They were together, they stuck together, 990 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,080 Speaker 3: They loved each other. It's the love of Merley for 991 00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:28,719 Speaker 3: her children and all that she did to sacrifice in 992 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:30,799 Speaker 3: order to make sure that they were okay. And so 993 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:32,799 Speaker 3: it's the love of your block. You know, if you 994 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:35,000 Speaker 3: grew up on that kind of block, you understand that 995 00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:37,399 Speaker 3: kind of love. And so I wanted to tell all 996 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,440 Speaker 3: of those different layers of love that existed even for 997 00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,600 Speaker 3: black people at the worst times, some of the worst 998 00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:47,320 Speaker 3: times to be black in this country, people still loved, 999 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:51,800 Speaker 3: They still had all of those layers, all of those things. 1000 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,759 Speaker 3: And I think it humanizes the black experience when you 1001 00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:59,879 Speaker 3: understand it's just the experience. It's the experience anybody would have. 1002 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,799 Speaker 3: And then each of these groups of us in this 1003 00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,400 Speaker 3: country that are sort of thrown together in this salad bowl, 1004 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:07,160 Speaker 3: because we're not yet a Melton power, more of a 1005 00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:12,000 Speaker 3: salad bowl, but salad two. We all have in our communities, 1006 00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,640 Speaker 3: in our individual lives, these same experiences, and if we 1007 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,120 Speaker 3: were placed in the position that Meker and Murley were 1008 00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:20,960 Speaker 3: placed in, we would all do it. I do believe 1009 00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,440 Speaker 3: we would all fight for our dignity and fight for 1010 00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,080 Speaker 3: our humanity. And that's all they were doing. 1011 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:28,840 Speaker 2: It's beautiful. 1012 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:34,160 Speaker 1: Why did this here or this time feel like the 1013 00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,320 Speaker 1: right time for you to tell this story? 1014 00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,360 Speaker 2: Why did you think America needed a love story? 1015 00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,680 Speaker 3: You know what I have to tell you, It's been 1016 00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:47,000 Speaker 3: a very weird, weird five years. I kind of felt 1017 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,400 Speaker 3: like it's a great question because I didn't want to 1018 00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,000 Speaker 3: write another trump Book, to be honest, I just didn't 1019 00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:54,799 Speaker 3: want did really well, very happy with it, but I 1020 00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:59,920 Speaker 3: felt like I dove into the negative aspects of the 1021 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,279 Speaker 3: human personality to do that book. But I feel like 1022 00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:05,640 Speaker 3: we're at a point where number one, our history is 1023 00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,560 Speaker 3: being ripped away from us piece by piece and being challenged. 1024 00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,960 Speaker 3: It's legitimacy is being challenged. They hit the idea of 1025 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,280 Speaker 3: telling our history is being challenged, and I love history 1026 00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:18,440 Speaker 3: and wanted to defend it. I wanted to defend it. 1027 00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:20,600 Speaker 3: And I've been wanting to do a follow up to 1028 00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,760 Speaker 3: my first book, which was called Fracture, which talked about 1029 00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,960 Speaker 3: the sort of way that the Democratic Party sort of 1030 00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,200 Speaker 3: morph from being the party of the Klan and a 1031 00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:33,040 Speaker 3: white supremacy into a party that could produce Barack Obama. 1032 00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:35,520 Speaker 3: And it's interesting that I'd had a conversation after that 1033 00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,440 Speaker 3: book came out with Reverend Sharpton where he said, I 1034 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,600 Speaker 3: love this book, and you should one day tell the 1035 00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,239 Speaker 3: story of even further back, like how the civil rights 1036 00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,520 Speaker 3: movement kind of moved in that era and then after 1037 00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:48,239 Speaker 3: And so I kind of had that in my head, 1038 00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,400 Speaker 3: and I thought that this is a time when we 1039 00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:56,200 Speaker 3: actually need something bigger than just civics, because civics ain't 1040 00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,359 Speaker 3: saving us, right, now, you know, and we need something 1041 00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,600 Speaker 3: bigger than just history and just knowledge. We actually kind 1042 00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:04,920 Speaker 3: of need a little love, Like we need some inspiration. 1043 00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,200 Speaker 3: And there's nothing more inspiring. You know, you're in Hollywood, 1044 00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:10,480 Speaker 3: my dalling, so you know that there's nothing more inspiring 1045 00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,800 Speaker 3: than love. So I'm like, I want to do something 1046 00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,279 Speaker 3: that will make people see that regular people can do 1047 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:19,040 Speaker 3: big things. The ordinary people did big things, and that 1048 00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,320 Speaker 3: the people who did the big things were regular people 1049 00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,120 Speaker 3: who fell in love, and that love drove them to 1050 00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,560 Speaker 3: do the things they did, and that if we can 1051 00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:29,759 Speaker 3: get that, we can access that. You know, we may 1052 00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,840 Speaker 3: not be able to access the great heroism of a 1053 00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:33,960 Speaker 3: Medica average and put our life on the line. But 1054 00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,320 Speaker 3: you love something, and if you love something, you'll do something. 1055 00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,160 Speaker 3: You'll do a little something, whatever is in your capacity 1056 00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:42,640 Speaker 3: to do, you'll do it because you have that love 1057 00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:43,160 Speaker 3: driving you. 1058 00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's beautiful. Do you see that? 1059 00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:52,320 Speaker 1: Having written the book and applying love as the lens, 1060 00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,800 Speaker 1: does it make you look at, you know, the pinwheel 1061 00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,920 Speaker 1: of your own life and career differently as a writer 1062 00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:03,520 Speaker 1: and anchor, know, a journalist, a podcast host, a mother, wife, 1063 00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:07,719 Speaker 1: like all of these pieces of your identity. It does 1064 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:11,719 Speaker 1: it create a sort of different way of looking at 1065 00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:15,000 Speaker 1: them or spinning all the plates. 1066 00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:17,160 Speaker 3: I guess that's a great question. No one's ever asked 1067 00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:18,560 Speaker 3: me that before. That's a good question, you know what. 1068 00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:20,919 Speaker 3: I kind of think it does, because I'll be honest 1069 00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,120 Speaker 3: with you, I am a person that I'm a little 1070 00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,640 Speaker 3: bit of a daffy I'm a daffy apple, you know. 1071 00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:28,880 Speaker 3: I'm kind of a goofball where. But also I can't 1072 00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,160 Speaker 3: bring myself to do something that I don't love. Like 1073 00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:33,000 Speaker 3: it's very hard for me to do a job I 1074 00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,440 Speaker 3: don't like or love. And I've my poor husband. I 1075 00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,840 Speaker 3: have quit more jobs left. I been like I'm laving, 1076 00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:41,200 Speaker 3: you know, and he's had to deal with that our 1077 00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:43,560 Speaker 3: whole lives together. We've been together since we were both 1078 00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:46,279 Speaker 3: twenty one, so we've been through a whole journey. But 1079 00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,600 Speaker 3: one of the times that I actually left left my 1080 00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,160 Speaker 3: job was I left the news business, like I exited 1081 00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:55,960 Speaker 3: in two thousand and four because I was just deeply 1082 00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,919 Speaker 3: against the Iraq war and I didn't like the way 1083 00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,080 Speaker 3: the media was sort of jingoistically promoting war, and I'm 1084 00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:05,399 Speaker 3: very anti war, so I just felt like this wasn't 1085 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,480 Speaker 3: a place for me. But what I did in doing 1086 00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:12,560 Speaker 3: that was I actually gave myself opportunity to figure out 1087 00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:16,080 Speaker 3: what I do care about. I did talk radio where 1088 00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:18,080 Speaker 3: I could just really talk to people, which I loved 1089 00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,440 Speaker 3: talk radio. I was able to talk to people where 1090 00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:21,759 Speaker 3: they would call me in. We had a four hour 1091 00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:23,399 Speaker 3: morning show, so I just loved being able to call 1092 00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,520 Speaker 3: in and talk to vocal and radio and go back 1093 00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:27,080 Speaker 3: and forth. And it was during a rough time in 1094 00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,120 Speaker 3: Florida where there was a lot of police shootings and 1095 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,080 Speaker 3: a lot of It's how I met Ben Kromp, you know, 1096 00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,960 Speaker 3: dealing with a police shooting or a police killing of 1097 00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:36,440 Speaker 3: a young fourteen year old, and it was sort of 1098 00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:38,120 Speaker 3: it was an opportunity. And then I jumped on a 1099 00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:42,279 Speaker 3: couple campaigns, including the second being, of course, the Obama campaign, 1100 00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:44,439 Speaker 3: and I love that and I loved politics. So yes, 1101 00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,840 Speaker 3: I feel like I've had a full circle life. And 1102 00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,080 Speaker 3: then I started out as a sixth grader who loved 1103 00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,880 Speaker 3: politics and news to somebody who got to work in news, 1104 00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,560 Speaker 3: then fell out of love with news, then worked in politics, 1105 00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,160 Speaker 3: and then went back to news. So I do feel 1106 00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:01,120 Speaker 3: like I've had a full SERVI like the thing I 1107 00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:03,400 Speaker 3: love the most when I was in the sixth grade 1108 00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:07,239 Speaker 3: is the stuff I do now, you know. It's a 1109 00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,600 Speaker 3: wild journey from being a sixth grader who had committed 1110 00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:14,160 Speaker 3: to becoming a doctor to actually being a grown up 1111 00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:16,000 Speaker 3: version of the original sixth grader. 1112 00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:21,120 Speaker 2: That's so cool, that's really special. 1113 00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,920 Speaker 3: It is. I feel very lucky, and I think my 1114 00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:28,560 Speaker 3: mom would find it hilarious because while she was committed 1115 00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:30,759 Speaker 3: to the idea of me being a doctor, she once 1116 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,440 Speaker 3: said to me, girl, if you could just get paid 1117 00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,040 Speaker 3: for how much you talk, if you could just literally 1118 00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:39,680 Speaker 3: get paid to talk, that would be amazing because I 1119 00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:41,360 Speaker 3: just never shut up. And she was like, you should 1120 00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,200 Speaker 3: just somehow figure out how to get paid to talk, 1121 00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:43,759 Speaker 3: and I did. 1122 00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,320 Speaker 1: I can picture my dad listening to this episode nodding, 1123 00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:48,080 Speaker 1: being like I said the. 1124 00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:51,160 Speaker 2: Same thing to my kid. Yeah, Oh, I love it. 1125 00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,000 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm checking the clock because I want to be 1126 00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,200 Speaker 1: respectful of your time, and I know you've got a 1127 00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:58,160 Speaker 1: million things to do. So I'm going to ask you 1128 00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,600 Speaker 1: my last and favorite question that I ask all of 1129 00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:05,680 Speaker 1: my guests, which is from this vantage point today, as 1130 00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,040 Speaker 1: you look around and all of the things you do 1131 00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:10,600 Speaker 1: and all of the things you're passionate about, and all 1132 00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:12,360 Speaker 1: of the passion you pour out into the world. 1133 00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:14,520 Speaker 2: What's next? 1134 00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:17,759 Speaker 1: What feels like your work in progress right now? 1135 00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:19,600 Speaker 3: Oh, that's such a great question, you don't you have 1136 00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:20,960 Speaker 3: some good questions. 1137 00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:22,719 Speaker 2: You know what. 1138 00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:26,640 Speaker 3: I feel like, I just love telling stories like that 1139 00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,200 Speaker 3: is my favorite thing. And so what drives me and 1140 00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:33,080 Speaker 3: keeps me interested and intrigued is figuring out what's my 1141 00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,440 Speaker 3: next story that I'm going to tell, whether it's on 1142 00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,200 Speaker 3: the redown, on the show, or whether it's a documentary. 1143 00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:40,160 Speaker 3: And we my husband and I are actually working on 1144 00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:43,520 Speaker 3: a documentary about the assassination of banker Ever, so I'm 1145 00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,040 Speaker 3: really passionate about that because there's so much more to 1146 00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:48,080 Speaker 3: that story that I couldn't get into the book. My 1147 00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:49,799 Speaker 3: poor editor, I would have turned in a book like 1148 00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:52,680 Speaker 3: it's a phone book, an old phone book from the eighties, 1149 00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:54,040 Speaker 3: and he was like, you know what, I'm gonna cut 1150 00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:55,719 Speaker 3: a whole lot of that we're not gonna have on that. 1151 00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:57,600 Speaker 3: You're gonna have to make that little storder. And so 1152 00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:00,920 Speaker 3: there's so much more material that I have that really 1153 00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,319 Speaker 3: delves into that, and so I'm passionate about getting that 1154 00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:06,880 Speaker 3: documentary done and then just about finding more stories that 1155 00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:12,560 Speaker 3: can intrigue us, unite us, make us outraged, but then 1156 00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:14,480 Speaker 3: bring us back to a place where we can do 1157 00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,440 Speaker 3: something about it. And I feel like that's what the 1158 00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:19,440 Speaker 3: mission I was put on this earth for. You know, 1159 00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:21,640 Speaker 3: we all kind of look for the meaning of why 1160 00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:23,760 Speaker 3: we're in the universe, why we're why the universe wanted 1161 00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:28,000 Speaker 3: us here, Like why the universe wanted me here is 1162 00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:30,440 Speaker 3: that I do love to tell stories, and I do 1163 00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:33,680 Speaker 3: love people, and I'm interested in people. I find people interesting, 1164 00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,680 Speaker 3: and so if I can find more people's stories to tell, 1165 00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,200 Speaker 3: I'm always going to be happy. And if you're happy 1166 00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:41,640 Speaker 3: and joyful and you love what you're doing, you're never 1167 00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:42,880 Speaker 3: working a day in your life. 1168 00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:49,360 Speaker 1: I love it, happy and joyful and educational. Like, yes, 1169 00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:51,320 Speaker 1: I would love. 1170 00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,800 Speaker 2: For sign me up. I'm telling you I'm coming to 1171 00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:53,600 Speaker 2: work for you. I can't. 1172 00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:56,160 Speaker 3: We're hanging out, like I think we have committed. We're 1173 00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:58,160 Speaker 3: going to You're going to co anchor with me. We're 1174 00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:02,080 Speaker 3: going to do an episode. It's gonna be let's go. Yes. 1175 00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,280 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Joy, Thank you for everything you 1176 00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:09,000 Speaker 1: pour into what you do and into these books that 1177 00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:11,680 Speaker 1: you write, and just into who you are. You really, 1178 00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:14,160 Speaker 1: you're such a north Star for so many of us, 1179 00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,200 Speaker 1: and we're very grateful that you joined us on the 1180 00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:16,800 Speaker 1: show today. 1181 00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:19,000 Speaker 3: Thank you, Sophia. It was so much fun.