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Speaker 1: I don't know stories of things we simply don't know
Speaker 1: the answer to. Hi. There, Welcome to another episode of
Speaker 1: Thinking So Sadways, the hard hitting podcast. Yeah I can't
Speaker 1: even make it all the way through that we do something,
Speaker 1: I guess. I'm Joe Uh. This week joined as always
Speaker 1: by Steve and Yeah, here we go and I go
Speaker 1: tackle another cool mystery. UM. This week we are going
Speaker 1: to talk about a strange series of instance that happened
Speaker 1: back in the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties and a
Speaker 1: little town in Ohio Uh. The incident centered around an
Speaker 1: older couple named Bill and Dorothy Whacker, who lived in
Speaker 1: a town called Massillon, Ohio, which is about fifty miles
Speaker 1: south of Cleveland. That's about eighty kilometers and about three
Speaker 1: million hands and about twenty seven stone. Yeah, right in there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I got them all. And before we go any further,
Speaker 1: I want to give a shout out to Lauren who
Speaker 1: suggested this mystery. Thanks Lauren. And also, and there might
Speaker 1: be a few other people too, but somehow I didn't
Speaker 1: see the names in the list, so sorry about that,
Speaker 1: but you're getting a sort of a silent shout out
Speaker 1: from us. Let's back to our mystery here, let's go back.
Speaker 1: So Bill and Dorothy Whacker fairly normal people. They seemed
Speaker 1: like to me, they're kind of getting getting on in
Speaker 1: years in the mid eighties, they were in their fifties,
Speaker 1: at the sixties, something like that, I don't know. But
Speaker 1: then they're in nineteen eighty four. One day they came
Speaker 1: home and they found their house had been broken into
Speaker 1: and ransacked. Apparently didn't report to the police because they
Speaker 1: didn't see that anything had been stolen, and so that
Speaker 1: was a kind of that. But then it happened again
Speaker 1: later in the year, and they still didn't report it
Speaker 1: to the police. But then when it happened the third
Speaker 1: time in January five, they finally did report it to
Speaker 1: the county sheriff. Wasn't it wasn't that the one that
Speaker 1: Dorothy was actually injured in though, No, actually that was no, No,
Speaker 1: that was not that was one. They were both out
Speaker 1: of the house at that time. I guess I always
Speaker 1: thought that that was and that's why they had finally
Speaker 1: reported it, But that was the catalyst. But I think
Speaker 1: just had enough. Yeah, yeah, I think so. Damn it
Speaker 1: the third time. Yeah, you know, I usually fully one
Speaker 1: shame on me, Yeah, pull me, can't get pulled again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there you go. That's how that works. I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: as far as another sheriff was not able to do
Speaker 1: much other than asking the neighbors if they had seen anything.
Speaker 1: And I know I got broken into once years ago
Speaker 1: and the cops came over, and well, they weren't able
Speaker 1: to do much either. Stuff kind of step. Yeah. Seriously,
Speaker 1: I do have one hint for you. If somebody burgles
Speaker 1: your place, just say yeah, they still want of my guns.
Speaker 1: That would get their attention. They might just go find
Speaker 1: those people. Yeah, do you probably have to provide enough
Speaker 1: serial numbers and types and stuff like that. Yeah, there's that.
Speaker 1: And if they find out you lied, well they get
Speaker 1: kind of pussy about that. I had a two can
Speaker 1: to seventeen. It was awesome. I lost watches. Yeah, where
Speaker 1: are we at here? Though? But then what really what happened?
Speaker 1: Where it kind of serious? Was about six months later
Speaker 1: in July, Dorothy was home alone one afternoon to knock
Speaker 1: on her door, and some guy wanted to use her
Speaker 1: phone because he said his card had broken down, And
Speaker 1: so Dorothy led him in and showed him where the
Speaker 1: phone was, and then left the room and went off
Speaker 1: to putter around in the kitchen or something. She said
Speaker 1: she didn't want to feel she didn't want him to
Speaker 1: feel as though she was eavesdropping. Yeah, she said she
Speaker 1: wasn't want to listen in on conversations, and so she
Speaker 1: thought she'd just let him have his little private time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was just very nice of her. I gotta tell
Speaker 1: you I don't I don't allow strangers to be unobserved
Speaker 1: in my home. I had a stranger in my house
Speaker 1: this morning, and that lady I was within five or
Speaker 1: eight feet of her the whole time. I invited her
Speaker 1: to the house to take a look at it. Uh huh,
Speaker 1: A likely story. No, sorry, I think I mean the
Speaker 1: impression I have is that they lived in a relatively
Speaker 1: safe neighborhood. They came from a much safer time, more
Speaker 1: trusting generation, more trusting generation, and so you know, she
Speaker 1: didn't want it. She doesn't want to assume the worst
Speaker 1: of people, you know, she wants to assume you can
Speaker 1: take people at face value. This young man said his
Speaker 1: car broke down. She said, all right, you know, use
Speaker 1: our phone, there's no harm here. He seemed trustworthy, so
Speaker 1: she let him in. And you know, this would have
Speaker 1: got a whole lot better for Dorothy if she had
Speaker 1: been listening to podcast, because she wouldn't have trusted anybody, right,
Speaker 1: damn it. Yeah, this wasn't exactly an innocent time. It
Speaker 1: was five crime. We've been through the sixties, but she
Speaker 1: was in her sixties seventies, right, so she was from
Speaker 1: an arab a time gone by, and maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1: And of course, oh yeah, one other anomalous thing is
Speaker 1: apparently Dorothy didn't see his car parked out front, which
Speaker 1: was a little weird because it's a straightish road. It's
Speaker 1: a yeah, it's it's a straightish road. And uh so
Speaker 1: you know that there is that question, but we'll talk
Speaker 1: about that a little bit later. And anyway, it seemed
Speaker 1: like apparently the phone calls ordered over and Dorothy was
Speaker 1: under the oppression. The guy had left the house, but
Speaker 1: apparently he was still in the house, and he snuck
Speaker 1: up behind her and hit her over the head, and
Speaker 1: Dorothy of course went out like a light bulb, and
Speaker 1: she when she woke up, she had been tied up
Speaker 1: and gagged and left on her kitchen floor. Alright, So
Speaker 1: for people who are listening, i'bout a bunch of you
Speaker 1: know this case because it was on Unsolved Mysteries. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and her being tied up on the floor is one
Speaker 1: of the most awkwardly funny scenes that I have ever seen.
Speaker 1: I honestly was just thinking about how incredible it was,
Speaker 1: like literally just at this moment, thinking about how incredible
Speaker 1: it was for somebody who has gone through that traumatic
Speaker 1: experience him that to let them wasn't it wasn't her.
Speaker 1: It was an actress. I thought it was her, think
Speaker 1: it was it was actors and actresses portraying them in
Speaker 1: the re enactment the well, the actor looked a lot
Speaker 1: like her, but it was hilarious to see the way
Speaker 1: they hit that she was supposedly tied scene did look
Speaker 1: a lot like her, except it was pretty awkward. I'll
Speaker 1: be honest. I was eating dinner while I was watching
Speaker 1: I really want than actually paying that much attention. I
Speaker 1: just saw like, oh, woman tied up. It must be
Speaker 1: the woman, because they always used the same people unless
Speaker 1: they're traumatic experiences. All right, disregard the awe that I
Speaker 1: was in earlier. Okay, okay, Yeah, so it was an actress.
Speaker 1: We've established that. So she's a gagg on the kitchen floor.
Speaker 1: But luckily for her, it was July, so her windows
Speaker 1: were open and she was apparently, through her gag, able
Speaker 1: to make enough noise to attract the attention of her neighbors,
Speaker 1: who called the police. And hopefully that was after they
Speaker 1: had untied to say, oh, sorry, Dorothy, don't want to
Speaker 1: disturb the crime scene. I would hope not said to
Speaker 1: be here in half an hour. Yeah, but when the
Speaker 1: police showed up, and of course eventually Bill comes home. Also,
Speaker 1: Dorothy was not seriously injured. Apparently maybe a lump in
Speaker 1: the head. That's about it. But they discovered some things
Speaker 1: have been stolen, including a twenty two caliber revolver, an
Speaker 1: antique watch, a movie camera, and a scanner radio. Remember
Speaker 1: those scanner radios. Oh yeah, yeah, I know people who
Speaker 1: still have those. Yeah. It movie camera the same as
Speaker 1: a video camera. No, well, I mean I assume from
Speaker 1: this area they're talking it might have been a video camera.
Speaker 1: More likely it was like an old super eight K.
Speaker 1: It was. It was an old movie camera, but you know,
Speaker 1: the generation of cameras win from old movie cameras to VHS.
Speaker 1: With the VHS with probably the it could have been. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know what kind it was. I don't know
Speaker 1: what exactly. Something It was something around around those those
Speaker 1: huge VHS ones, because I remember my brother and his
Speaker 1: wife had one of those things, and those were enormous.
Speaker 1: My uncle had one, and I actually the only memories
Speaker 1: I have of him are like of him videotaping everything
Speaker 1: that was happening at family unions. He was never like participating.
Speaker 1: It was very weird. We had one. My mom loved
Speaker 1: it so much. It was so big that she had
Speaker 1: to carry it around in my little red wagon because
Speaker 1: it was so bulky to carry the recording unit and
Speaker 1: the camera, so she would drag the wagon around and
Speaker 1: then film things. Can I ride in the wagon? No,
Speaker 1: the cameras in it? Oh man, I cannot wait to
Speaker 1: be just like your mom. Okay, sorry, So okay, So
Speaker 1: they stole that and they still the camera again. I
Speaker 1: don't know how. The Super eight cameras are not that huge. Obviously,
Speaker 1: if it was one of those suitcase has once and
Speaker 1: you know VHS ones and I don't know what else
Speaker 1: did you take? That was about it. You might have
Speaker 1: taken all their drugs, only real legal drugs, but they
Speaker 1: didn't report that, and we'll just have to assume they
Speaker 1: didn't have any right. They probably didn't. They might as
Speaker 1: in prescription drugs. And that was about Yeah, in the
Speaker 1: dining room to their house. So the burglar had used
Speaker 1: to crayon to write a message on the wall which
Speaker 1: said cheaper, but we'll do not unusual, not but not classy.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, that's bad enough. It's like getting
Speaker 1: insult to injury. You know, he's steal their crapping and say, oh,
Speaker 1: by the way, you've got cheap, crappy stuff, you know. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's what that meant, Okay, yeah, I just had a
Speaker 1: hard time. It was there. You may not know the
Speaker 1: answer to this, but was the cran one that he
Speaker 1: had found in the house, Well, nobody knows, you know.
Speaker 1: That's one of the things I'm kind of curious about,
Speaker 1: is that I don't know that information. I wondered about
Speaker 1: that myself, if he had brought it or just lay
Speaker 1: it appears, and some things that happened later on that
Speaker 1: a crayon plays a major role in this story. Did
Speaker 1: look like I'm presuming that this person had their own
Speaker 1: crayons color box? Probably No, probably not. They probably had
Speaker 1: just the eight box. That's what made them so mad.
Speaker 1: That was it. I mean, that was you know when
Speaker 1: I was a little kid, that's all My parents would
Speaker 1: let me have it, because, yeah, I didn't eat him,
Speaker 1: I did other stuff with him. But yeah, the police,
Speaker 1: of course did did stop by. They took a report,
Speaker 1: and it even sat down with Dorothy and made a
Speaker 1: composite drawing up her attacker, which you can find on
Speaker 1: the World Wide Web if you look. You guys have
Speaker 1: seen it. I'm sure I'm assuming. Uh looks like a
Speaker 1: lot of mid eighties college dudes, kind of nondescript. It's
Speaker 1: extremely nondescript, blonde, blue eyes, mid twenties and just really nondescript.
Speaker 1: Nobody in town recognized his face. So that was that
Speaker 1: for that little incident. But then about four months later,
Speaker 1: Bill on the plastic shopping bag on their porch, and
Speaker 1: when he opened it turned out not to contain the
Speaker 1: usual a half pound of dog poo. Instead, it had
Speaker 1: his stolen twenty two revolver. And okay, I'm joking about
Speaker 1: the dog poo, but it did have the twenty two
Speaker 1: revolver in it, and which was kind of I guess
Speaker 1: nice that somebody gave the gun back. But then over
Speaker 1: the next several months, all the other stolen stuff also
Speaker 1: turned up. And yeah, I know, so I don't know
Speaker 1: if it turned up on the porch or just exactly
Speaker 1: where I was going to ask you, because I've never
Speaker 1: seen where the stuff appeared. You know, if it appeared, well,
Speaker 1: the guns the only one, but you know, if the
Speaker 1: watch appeared in the house, then something different. Maybe somebody
Speaker 1: just misplaced. That's entirely possible. Uh, yeah, I would assume
Speaker 1: they were all. The inference there is that they were
Speaker 1: all on the porch, probably just you know, left in
Speaker 1: bags in the porch. Yeah. Yeah, maybe I'm not entirely sure,
Speaker 1: but let's assume that for the sake of fun. But
Speaker 1: we're still in the year, and in this year, the
Speaker 1: Whackers also began to get phone calls. Um some of
Speaker 1: them were just as sound as somebody breathing kind of heavy.
Speaker 1: Yeah this one, Oh yeah, Devin, wake up later. Yeah,
Speaker 1: come on, this is an exciting mystery. Yeah. Well, some
Speaker 1: of the other phone calls, though, we're threatening, you know, actual,
Speaker 1: Although I don't have any quotes as to exactly what
Speaker 1: the words of these threatening calls, I was going to say,
Speaker 1: I've never seen any kind of transcription of them. Now,
Speaker 1: the whackers actually didn't do a great job of documenting
Speaker 1: every all these various incidents. You know, it would have
Speaker 1: been nice that they had, but they didn't. They because
Speaker 1: of the phone calls. They changed their phone number, and
Speaker 1: then the guy apparently found their phone. Their new phone
Speaker 1: numbers started calling again, changed the phone number again, and
Speaker 1: the guy started calling them again. I have a question,
Speaker 1: were their number unlisted? Good question? I mean, this is
Speaker 1: the time where I would be pretty easy to just
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not as though Whacker is such a
Speaker 1: common name that that you would be able to, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, it would be pretty easy to open up
Speaker 1: the phone book for that given town and say, all right,
Speaker 1: Dorothy and Bill Whacker, there's their phone number. Oh good,
Speaker 1: I found it again. I mean, yeah, I'm just kind
Speaker 1: of assuming that somebody at the phone company when they
Speaker 1: changed it, and they said, well, here's why they did.
Speaker 1: The phone company said, oh, you're probably gonna want it unlisted.
Speaker 1: Then yeah, I would assume that too. But I would
Speaker 1: also assume that they would have kept some sort of
Speaker 1: record or transcript of the calls that they were getting
Speaker 1: and the content of them. Well, that's true. That's a
Speaker 1: good point. You at least say you know the time
Speaker 1: of the date, you know, because like, for example, you know,
Speaker 1: later on, if you have a suspect, you know, and
Speaker 1: you can the call originated in this town and you
Speaker 1: can prove that he was in this town on that date.
Speaker 1: But if you don't know that kind of stuff, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're kind of have a lot of aren't you proven
Speaker 1: that so and so did it? So, yeah, they should
Speaker 1: have done a better job of that. Well, but hey,
Speaker 1: they were old, right, Blame it on that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, ages, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I totally am uh. At some point though in this
Speaker 1: this is long about the same time, a little after
Speaker 1: somebody started pounding, maybe the eighty six or someone just
Speaker 1: started having somebody started pounding on the side of their house.
Speaker 1: It was mainly on the west side. If you look
Speaker 1: at the Google area they are I will tell you
Speaker 1: what road. They were on Wooster Street, northwest in Massillon, Ohio,
Speaker 1: and they were north of the road, house facing the road,
Speaker 1: and their driveway was on the east side of the house,
Speaker 1: the drive and so that's where the pounding was coming from,
Speaker 1: which makes sense because on the west side there was
Speaker 1: another neighbor right there close by. The neighbors on both
Speaker 1: sides happen to be closer than the other. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: other one was quite a bit further away, a lot
Speaker 1: further away, and so that would make sense that he
Speaker 1: was he was on the driveway side of the house, right.
Speaker 1: But and all this thumping activity motivated able to install
Speaker 1: a security line in the front of their house. But
Speaker 1: all that n him was a taunting note from our perpetrator,
Speaker 1: who wrote a note saying, quote, your lights are a
Speaker 1: laugh unquote and uh. And also, by the way, I'm
Speaker 1: tired of calling this guy per So I'm gonna call
Speaker 1: him Matt Damon. We can serve you've done Matt Damon before,
Speaker 1: done that Damon before. Yeah, let's call this one Justin Justin. Okay, Justin,
Speaker 1: that sounds good. Okay. This note was the first note
Speaker 1: from Justin. This turns out Justin's got really lousy handwriting.
Speaker 1: The police had a theory about that. They thought that
Speaker 1: Justin was just writing with his weak hand. In other words,
Speaker 1: if he was right and he was writing these with
Speaker 1: his left hand handwriting, and I bet there's no way.
Speaker 1: I don't know this, I'm just totally spitballing, but I
Speaker 1: would assume that it would be really hard to analyze
Speaker 1: someone's non dominant hand handwriting because there's no well in
Speaker 1: cran But even like there's no I don't know that
Speaker 1: you would even be able to. I don't think I
Speaker 1: form letters the same way like when I write with
Speaker 1: my left hand and A and then the next A
Speaker 1: is probably totally different because I am so right dominated that,
Speaker 1: you know. I think it's probably pretty clever. Actually it's not.
Speaker 1: It's not a trick that's enter heard of either. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but in this case, yeah, we're talking left hand. But
Speaker 1: also our perp justin. Yeah. It was also careful not
Speaker 1: to leave the fingerprints on the notes, so he knew
Speaker 1: what he was doing. But the banging on the side
Speaker 1: of the house continued. More notes arrived, and one note
Speaker 1: read quote you scum, I'll get even no junk poor
Speaker 1: and I I put a nice little pause in there.
Speaker 1: Actually there was that was bad, bad punctuation in this note,
Speaker 1: you scumb I'll get you even. Yeah, here's here's how
Speaker 1: I should have read you scumb I'll get you, I'll
Speaker 1: get even no junk. But here's how it actually read.
Speaker 1: You scumb I'll get even no junk because no punctuation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm interested in the word choice that's happening
Speaker 1: here too. You know, like your lights are a laugh
Speaker 1: that sounds like a film noir kind of you know
Speaker 1: term and you scum, I'll get you. They all. It
Speaker 1: all kind of sounds like Perry Mason, sort of like
Speaker 1: hearken of a detective novel. I've doesn't it a little
Speaker 1: bit like it's weird? Yeah, you're right, it sounds like
Speaker 1: something out of like a like a Humphrey Bogard detective movie. Yeah, scump,
Speaker 1: look good even no junk. Yeah, yeah, that kind of thing. Oh,
Speaker 1: back to our story. This stuff went on for a
Speaker 1: long time, but actually not. There were long periods of
Speaker 1: time where a lot of time would go by, months
Speaker 1: and months and months would go by with absolutely no incidents.
Speaker 1: Wasn't there a year that was yeah? I think so, yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe more. But then sooner or later Justin would come
Speaker 1: back and go back to his his evil deeds. Um.
Speaker 1: But things came to a head kind of in October,
Speaker 1: like late October, Dorothy was attacked again by Justin. Damn
Speaker 1: you Justin, who's not up behind her or somebody's stuck
Speaker 1: up behind her and hit her on the head again.
Speaker 1: Now this time your injuries were more serious than the
Speaker 1: previous knock on the head. So she had scalp lacerations
Speaker 1: that I think had to be stitched. And I read
Speaker 1: somewhere on the webs that she got a fractured skull,
Speaker 1: But I don't think that this is true. I think
Speaker 1: she just got some lacerations that was about it. I
Speaker 1: don't know, It's it's hard to say. I mean, she
Speaker 1: was an old woman at this point, and your skull
Speaker 1: is kind of eggshell thin in spots, so it's possible
Speaker 1: maybe she got Yeah, so if she had to wear
Speaker 1: a cast on her skull for a while, Yeah, I know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: my grandma years back took a fall and she had
Speaker 1: to be held and she had bleeding, you know, blood
Speaker 1: on the brain, had to be held, and it wasn't
Speaker 1: I mean, it was pretty bad fault. That was pretty
Speaker 1: bad fault. But I would imagine that it would be
Speaker 1: similar to getting whacked on the head with a hard object,
Speaker 1: So I would presume that it was serious. Honestly, anybody
Speaker 1: getting hit on the head with something hard, like unless
Speaker 1: you're a child, because children are just made of like bullet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're they're they're totally okay with this kind of stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're fine, So it's okay to hear your kids just kidding. Well, anyway,
Speaker 1: the police did take this attack a little more seriously
Speaker 1: because there was blood, and they canvassed the neighborhood asking
Speaker 1: if anybody seemed justin or anything odd for that matter,
Speaker 1: and nobody has seen or heard anything. Police also at
Speaker 1: this point asked Dorothy if she thought it was possible
Speaker 1: that maybe Bill was he was the perpetrator of these incidents,
Speaker 1: and she said no, no, of course, not, no, he said, no,
Speaker 1: are you kidding now, Bill? But would never do this?
Speaker 1: She Kiana reaves it. No, Oh my gosh, that is crazy. No,
Speaker 1: that's good, good acting, good impression. So maybe because of
Speaker 1: this violent incident in November that would have been a
Speaker 1: few weeks after Dorothy was attacked, Bill and two of
Speaker 1: his son laws staked out the house one night. I
Speaker 1: gotta tell you that I read about this and then
Speaker 1: I watched the re enactment, and this just sounds like
Speaker 1: the clugiest, silliest thing ever. But also the other reason
Speaker 1: that it's like crazy that they would do this, right
Speaker 1: is they would they did it for such a short
Speaker 1: amount of time, which Joell talked about in a second,
Speaker 1: But also there were years that went by between incidents, right,
Speaker 1: so why would you say, oh, this is the night
Speaker 1: we're a steak out. Actually I actually thought about that
Speaker 1: they may have done it several times and didn't say
Speaker 1: anything to the cast or the crew that of unsolved mysteries,
Speaker 1: because only this one time did it actually have anything happen.
Speaker 1: But that that that maybe as possible. But still, you know,
Speaker 1: they could have been in for a long long wait.
Speaker 1: We're talking a long long sight. So tell folks, what,
Speaker 1: what's what's going on here? Yeah, so they're, uh, they're
Speaker 1: staking a place out. So they apparently got a trailer
Speaker 1: that they parked in the driveway. Uh not suspicious, Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: What this so such a plan? Yeah exactly. I'm calling
Speaker 1: it a lot of things. Maybe they were a little
Speaker 1: more subtle about it. I mean, maybe maybe Bill bought
Speaker 1: this trailer and thought, I'm gonna do some steakouts. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna buy the trailer now in the summer. Just put
Speaker 1: it there. I won't even try to do it. I'll
Speaker 1: just get the guy used to seeing that trailer there.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's what he did. I don't know. I kind
Speaker 1: of doubt it. But but Bill hid inside that trailer
Speaker 1: in the driveway, and then his son in laws, the
Speaker 1: names for Dan and Clay, set in a van across
Speaker 1: the street, and Uh, as you I'm sure you guys
Speaker 1: are with the street view, there's no shoulders or sidewalks
Speaker 1: or any parking on this road. Had to be in
Speaker 1: somebody's driveway, and there's only really one driveway that's right
Speaker 1: across the street from the house. Their neighbors right across
Speaker 1: the way, so they had to be in that driveway. Well,
Speaker 1: they could have been parked in the middle. I mean,
Speaker 1: I would not put it past this family. Not to
Speaker 1: disparage the family, but I would not put it past
Speaker 1: this family to be so conspicuous as to just park
Speaker 1: adan car as far off the road as they could get.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know there was like nothing there, right,
Speaker 1: but it wouldn't surprise me if they had just parked
Speaker 1: the car kind of in the middle of the road
Speaker 1: and there nobody'll see me, now nobody. Yeah, we'll pay
Speaker 1: a little camouflage on our van. But yeah, if you
Speaker 1: were the perpetrator justin, you'd probably be thinking, Wow, what's
Speaker 1: what the trailer in the van? Yeah? Yeah. Their stick
Speaker 1: up began about six thirty pm, went on for about
Speaker 1: four hours, and at which time they decided to call
Speaker 1: it a night. And Dorothy was in the house. Not
Speaker 1: by yourself. Oh that's right, I forgot about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And Dorothy was in the house with her daughter, Kathyrn
Speaker 1: Bill's daughter Cathy. Uh. And so when they started to
Speaker 1: call it a night about ten thirty pm, right about then,
Speaker 1: persons stake out. I'm sorry, I love it. They're they're
Speaker 1: like they saw all the all the nomenclature from all
Speaker 1: the police procedural shows that they've watched and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: And then and for yeah radio they had radio. Sorry
Speaker 1: to question that. Let me just ask a question real
Speaker 1: quick here, Um did that time correspond with the majority
Speaker 1: of the incident? Says we're I mean, we're most of
Speaker 1: the bangings happening in this kind of six to ten
Speaker 1: hour Is that why they picked that or were they
Speaker 1: just you know, being kind of lazy. I was never
Speaker 1: I never found out exactly what time of the night.
Speaker 1: It appears that it seems like they were intended to
Speaker 1: be awake when the banking is happening, and it appears
Speaker 1: that usually happen at night, after dark, which makes a
Speaker 1: lot of sense, but we're usually awake, so probably something
Speaker 1: like that. They were kind of older, so they probably
Speaker 1: didn't stay up to the you know old Yeah, and
Speaker 1: so because I know that, yeah, I know that at
Speaker 1: least a lot of them happened when they were awake,
Speaker 1: because Bill would at a certain point would jump up
Speaker 1: and grab his kun and go outside and try to
Speaker 1: see that, you know, the gun that had been stolen,
Speaker 1: which she got back, which, by the way, I help
Speaker 1: you testified that thing to make sure it actually worked
Speaker 1: after he got it back, give it back. Yeah, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: you file the s, you file the you know, the
Speaker 1: firing pin down and you know, and then hey, here
Speaker 1: it is you know. Yeah, shoot me, sorry, I just
Speaker 1: wanted to ask that clarifying question to kind of give
Speaker 1: a little context. So at ten thirty, when they finally
Speaker 1: called it a night, something happened, Yes, something happened. Suddenly
Speaker 1: Dorothy and Cathy inside the house. Here there's stumping noise
Speaker 1: on the front of the house, and then went outside,
Speaker 1: and of course Bill comes over from the trailer and stuff.
Speaker 1: And it turns out there was a note from Justin
Speaker 1: on the porch which said vote get the message unquote.
Speaker 1: Sounds a little threatening, pretty little bit, but also what like,
Speaker 1: there's not really been a clear message here. What's the message? Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: and who's who's getting Is it Bill and Dorothy are
Speaker 1: supposed to get the message or is it Justin gets
Speaker 1: the message? But I think I think what he was saying,
Speaker 1: I mean, I I read this is you should get
Speaker 1: the message Bill and Dorothy. But the message, well, the
Speaker 1: message must have been your haunted there's ghosts. Maybe I'll
Speaker 1: stopped trying to catch me, yeah. Or maybe the message was,
Speaker 1: you know, you should check these walls. They might have
Speaker 1: termites in him. I don't know. I really don't know
Speaker 1: what the message was. He might have been trying to
Speaker 1: drive them out of the house. I don't know, but anyway,
Speaker 1: it was it was quite a clever move when you
Speaker 1: got the houses under surveillance from three different people. They're
Speaker 1: you know, watching the front porch and you somehomes to
Speaker 1: sneak a note onto the porch, you know, and thumping
Speaker 1: the wall and everything like that, so you gotta get
Speaker 1: that to justin. Good, good move, justin. But actually it's
Speaker 1: not a total ninja movie. You could have pulled it
Speaker 1: off if you approached from the back of the house
Speaker 1: on the north side and you came south along the
Speaker 1: west side of the house, or on the other side
Speaker 1: of the driveway. We're building the trailer can't see you.
Speaker 1: It turns out if you look on street view from
Speaker 1: the driveway of the house across the way where the
Speaker 1: van was. Between that west side of the house and
Speaker 1: the van, there was a tree and a bush. We
Speaker 1: don't know if that tree was there at that time,
Speaker 1: though the tree is large enough I would expect it
Speaker 1: was or another tree like it. But yeah, you're right,
Speaker 1: it's possibly years ago. Yeah, it's possible that it wasn't.
Speaker 1: But anyway, but you know, I'm thinking that probably there
Speaker 1: was something there, some sort of shrubley, but you're right.
Speaker 1: And also it was dark. I'm assuming these guys didn't
Speaker 1: have night vision equipment. Yeah, and so yeah, yeah, so
Speaker 1: somebody could have just sort of slid down the side
Speaker 1: of the house and just just you know, reached around
Speaker 1: through the rail. He's put the note on the porch,
Speaker 1: you know, and then slid on, slid on out of there,
Speaker 1: and you know, not not that hard to do really,
Speaker 1: But still I'm impressed that he saw this surveillance and
Speaker 1: you know, one around it. Good for him. I guess
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be taking this side, should I? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: the evils com But I don't know what happened. Maybe
Speaker 1: the the increase the police interests and maybe the steak
Speaker 1: out itself spooked him a bit because as far as
Speaker 1: I know, I've I've looked on the webs to see
Speaker 1: what I can find out about further harassment. As far
Speaker 1: as I know that this was it where it ended.
Speaker 1: This is about where it ended. As far as I
Speaker 1: know was in nineteen late n Well, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think that maybe gives some credence to Steve's theory
Speaker 1: that it was the note get the message was Justin saying, oh,
Speaker 1: I get the message. I'm not wanted here. Never mind,
Speaker 1: this isn't a fun thing we do together. You you
Speaker 1: guys are like scared of me. Okay, fine, I'll leave.
Speaker 1: That could have been She's not fun anymore. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: get the message. Yeah, maybe that's what it was. He
Speaker 1: was referring to the steak out to the van and
Speaker 1: all that stuff, and I get the message and I'm leaving. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe that's what it was. I don't know. You'll miss
Speaker 1: me when I'm going. Yeah. He could have been a
Speaker 1: little more articulate, damn it. Least use punctuation, ye man, Yeah,
Speaker 1: come on, just get it together. Damn Justin. So Justin
Speaker 1: like left their lives as just as quietly as he
Speaker 1: came into their lives. We never had any We never
Speaker 1: We don't know why it happened or anything. A little
Speaker 1: more quietly, let's be fair. Yeah, Yeah, Bill Bill Whacker
Speaker 1: died in Dorothy lived in that same house until she died,
Speaker 1: or at least she owned the house and maybe she
Speaker 1: was living somewhere else. I don't know, but she still
Speaker 1: own now still and then her daughter Peggy bought the
Speaker 1: place and owns it today. Yeah. And so if you're
Speaker 1: out the way out that way, if you're attempted to
Speaker 1: go thump on the wall, leave it out. Well, I
Speaker 1: never heard of you. I had no I don't know
Speaker 1: what you're talking about. I would recommend not doing that.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't, you know, I mean, I don't know. This
Speaker 1: story is still kind of active on the web, and
Speaker 1: it might be that people actually do just for the
Speaker 1: sheer fun of it. Go do that if if you
Speaker 1: can find out their address, which if you look on
Speaker 1: the web you can't find the address because people are jerks,
Speaker 1: and put it out there. Yeah, exactly, we're not doing that.
Speaker 1: We don't know. Peggy might not be as good humored
Speaker 1: about the whole thing as her parents were, so she
Speaker 1: might have like a shotgun. So I wouldn't recommend it.
Speaker 1: But well, it's almost time to talk about some theories.
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Speaker 1: I R E c T T five five four four
Speaker 1: three three. That was terrible joke, wasn't it? But did
Speaker 1: you get what I was thinking? What's that I don't know,
Speaker 1: and we're back. Okay, let's talk about some theories. And
Speaker 1: there's a lot of theories out there in the worldwide
Speaker 1: webs I put a list um here, then I showed
Speaker 1: you guys, uh, and you guys have any other theories
Speaker 1: you wanted to add onto this. Well, there's some stuff
Speaker 1: that comes up through this that I think we're probably
Speaker 1: gonna add to. But I wouldn't say there's any new theories.
Speaker 1: I'm using air quotes here. Compared to the list that
Speaker 1: you've the five pages of theories you have here, there's
Speaker 1: all kinds of theories. Yeah, well some of them are
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, kind of like similar to others too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's derivatives there are. There are that. But let's go
Speaker 1: through some of the classics that are out there, because again,
Speaker 1: this this is like a thirty year old mystery. So
Speaker 1: there are people have been talking about. There's this one.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'll link to it or not.
Speaker 1: That might be kind of child abuse. But this is
Speaker 1: one thread out there that's thirteen years long. I set
Speaker 1: you guys at length, right, Yeah, thirteen years Yeah, I
Speaker 1: never actually I got to confess, never made it. Entirely
Speaker 1: all the way through it. I had to con Yeah,
Speaker 1: just keep going. I'll just read while I talk here.
Speaker 1: Long thread, but let's let's go for some of the
Speaker 1: best ones. One is that developers wanted to get their land.
Speaker 1: And a lot of people have thought this. You know,
Speaker 1: there are somebody's trying to scare the old people out
Speaker 1: of their house, and so you know why, while somebody
Speaker 1: wanted the house, somebody wanted to land, So some developer
Speaker 1: wanted to land. And the reason I don't like this
Speaker 1: theory is that nobody, at least as far as Bill
Speaker 1: and Dorothy reported, nobody ever actually approached them about selling
Speaker 1: their house their land, which is usually what developers do
Speaker 1: if they're interested, even the evil nefarious ones, at least
Speaker 1: trying to buy you out first. Well, yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: lot easier in spending ten years trying to scare somebody
Speaker 1: off the land the way Scooby Doo would have never
Speaker 1: become a thing. Yeah. Well, and another reason I think
Speaker 1: this is a kind of absurd theory is if you
Speaker 1: look at it on the on aerial Google whatever, their
Speaker 1: their parcel was actually very tiny compared to neighboring parcels.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit one. It's really a sliver. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it kind of is. Uh. And also I can't imagine
Speaker 1: anybody wanted to develop anything on on Wooster Street anyway,
Speaker 1: because I mean you've seen it on street, you uh
Speaker 1: that you see any new glitzy new subdivisions or shopping
Speaker 1: malls or anything out there. Well, the fact that nobody,
Speaker 1: nobody did anything is why I don't think that this
Speaker 1: this has any any weight to it. Well, obviously you
Speaker 1: don't see the part here, right, is that the whackers
Speaker 1: were lacker, right, Yeah, they were the pivotal they were
Speaker 1: the lynchpen of the whole operation, right, So they were
Speaker 1: going to be like that. They were going to open
Speaker 1: the floodgates as as soon as they sold, everyone around
Speaker 1: them was going to say, oh, well they got so
Speaker 1: much money for their tiny little piece, we'll sell you
Speaker 1: know for you know, pennies on the dollars on the
Speaker 1: penny or whatever. Then I think, I like, they would
Speaker 1: think it was dollars on the penny, but it was
Speaker 1: actually pennies on the dollar, and they weren't getting really
Speaker 1: as much in Bulah. I mean that was obviously the
Speaker 1: whole thing, right. They were going to come in and
Speaker 1: offer the old people what would have to those people
Speaker 1: been a relatively large amount of money, but really property
Speaker 1: so much and then demolished the whole thing and put
Speaker 1: up a glitzy new suburb. Yeah, or a shopping mall
Speaker 1: or something something that was going to be multimillion dollars. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but those those evil whackers foiled the whole plan, and
Speaker 1: so nothing ever happened. Yeah. No, I think this is
Speaker 1: a dumb theory. I'm sorry. I don't think you're dumb.
Speaker 1: I think it's a dumb theory. Oh no, no, it's
Speaker 1: not my theory, but I had to put it out
Speaker 1: there because other people think so. Uh. And there's no
Speaker 1: that kind of similar kind of theory, which is that
Speaker 1: one of their neighbors wanted the house. This idea is
Speaker 1: that one of the neighbors, maybe one of their house
Speaker 1: because it was a kind of suitable thing to put
Speaker 1: up a family member, kind of what we would call
Speaker 1: a mother in law apartment, all right, you know, and
Speaker 1: so and so there. Their house is not that big
Speaker 1: and if you again, if you look at it on Google,
Speaker 1: which I guess I'm not gonna give you the address,
Speaker 1: so you can't really do that. But we're talking a
Speaker 1: couple of bedrooms, maybe a couple of bedrooms, one bath,
Speaker 1: modest little place, and uh so it would have been
Speaker 1: a good place for your mother in law. Whoever, or
Speaker 1: another variant on this is maybe a neighbor wanted it
Speaker 1: to expand their agricultural operations, although it doesn't seem to
Speaker 1: be much in the way of agriculture going on in
Speaker 1: that neighborhood. So I'm really doubting that one. Actually that's
Speaker 1: not true. Yeah, if you pull the satellite footage and
Speaker 1: you look at it over time to the north of them,
Speaker 1: there's actually all and actually directly to the one property
Speaker 1: to the east of them, you can see that that
Speaker 1: that there's a bunch of big plots to get farmed.
Speaker 1: So actually, no, I know about that, but I mean
Speaker 1: their immediate neighbors don't seem that. Yeah, the one right
Speaker 1: next door was farming a big chunk of ground right there.
Speaker 1: You could see like them, you can't tell if you
Speaker 1: just go to maps and turn on the satellite. What
Speaker 1: you have to do is put on the time progression
Speaker 1: and then you can see where things get mode and
Speaker 1: they get tilled, and so they weren't working it. I
Speaker 1: don't know what the hell they ever growing, but they
Speaker 1: were doing something to it. But but I mean, realistically,
Speaker 1: I think what the point Joe is trying to make,
Speaker 1: right is that like even if somebody is, you know,
Speaker 1: working the land, the plot of land at the whackers own, yeah,
Speaker 1: like for a ten years campaign, and then again, nobody
Speaker 1: ever had actually approached them, you would think that at
Speaker 1: some point one of the neighbors would have said, you know,
Speaker 1: it sounds like you guys are really suffering. Why don't
Speaker 1: take this off your hands for you? Nobody did paid
Speaker 1: for it, No nobody ever did. That's true, And you
Speaker 1: think they would have actually turned up the heat a
Speaker 1: little bit too, although I guess you could argue that
Speaker 1: they did with that attack on Northern and I suppose
Speaker 1: you could say that, uh yeah, But the mother in
Speaker 1: law apartment then makes a little bit more sense than
Speaker 1: somebody just expanding their farm, although you think it would
Speaker 1: be one of the neighbors immediately adjacent, right, because if
Speaker 1: it's somebody down the road little way, so well, what's
Speaker 1: the point of that you just got Well, I I've
Speaker 1: got to say, not everybody wants their mother in law
Speaker 1: right next door. Yea, sometimes it's nice to have a
Speaker 1: little distance. Oh yeah, for sure. But then but then
Speaker 1: why I focus on the whackers? I mean really, I
Speaker 1: don't know, Joe. I mean, they get this is this
Speaker 1: is just as as much hooey as the last one
Speaker 1: that we talked about. They maybe it's the people who
Speaker 1: are up, you know, not the next door but the
Speaker 1: next door to the next door neighbor. And they thought, well,
Speaker 1: we'll surround the next door neighbor and make it so
Speaker 1: miserable for them to still be there that they'll sell
Speaker 1: out too, and then we'll get the whole thing. Oh wow,
Speaker 1: and that will sell it for a shopping mall. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that could have been that. But again, yeah, it's just yeah,
Speaker 1: nobody ever approached them, and also nobody murdered them, and
Speaker 1: I think that would be easier. At some point in
Speaker 1: that tenure campaign, you think, why wout we just kill them? Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's just murder them. Yeah, and then you like, you know,
Speaker 1: take their blood and you scroll satanic messages all over
Speaker 1: the walls of the house, and that that guarantees you're
Speaker 1: gonna get that house for a really really cheap. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Although there's there's one thing about this Seria, I really
Speaker 1: like what it will explain why this campaign feels without
Speaker 1: in the nineties, which is maybe the mother in law
Speaker 1: finally died and made the whole thing to move point. Okay,
Speaker 1: still a bad theory, all right, Uh okay, let's move
Speaker 1: on to our next theory, which this one somebody was
Speaker 1: just a dirt bag, which is a real possibility. I mean,
Speaker 1: it could have been somebody just who wanted to stir
Speaker 1: up a bit of trouble for somebody, make somebody's laugh
Speaker 1: a little harder, a little more miserable. And based on
Speaker 1: my own experience, there's a lot of people like that
Speaker 1: are yeah. And I know Steve, you had you had
Speaker 1: something about that you wanted to sho. I found a
Speaker 1: connection to this, which is I know that I can't
Speaker 1: be the only one that's ever made the connection. But
Speaker 1: you guys have heard of the Circleville letter writer, which
Speaker 1: Circleville is like two hours to the west southwest of
Speaker 1: How did you say this town name again? By the way,
Speaker 1: apologizes to the residents of massilf. I'm mispronouncing. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna run with that pronunciation. But between nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: six and three, somebody went on a massive letter writing
Speaker 1: campaign in that town harassing the residents of the town.
Speaker 1: Um like there was somebody that they discovered was having
Speaker 1: a school bus driver was having an affair with the superintendent,
Speaker 1: so writing threatening letters. The weird thing was the letters
Speaker 1: weren't being postmarked from that town. Instead, they were coming
Speaker 1: from Columbus, which is again like an hour drive away,
Speaker 1: So it was a really weird thing. But in three
Speaker 1: the woman who the bus driver who was getting acute
Speaker 1: all the letters about her affair, found signs on the
Speaker 1: side of the road saying slanders things about her, went
Speaker 1: up to tear it down, saw a box on it
Speaker 1: had to wherewithal to stop she was doing, and somehow
Speaker 1: Jimmy opened the box to find a gun in it,
Speaker 1: which they to, which they tracked to somebody else in
Speaker 1: that Poor schleb spent like ten plush years in the
Speaker 1: clink for it, but it's stopped and he The thing
Speaker 1: with the Circleville letter writer is that the guy who
Speaker 1: went to jail, he was getting letters in jail from
Speaker 1: the letter writer. So it's like, what, it can't be him.
Speaker 1: But if we look at Bill and Dorothy, when did
Speaker 1: things start up with them though eighty four? So if
Speaker 1: this guy leaves town from Circleville in eight three eight
Speaker 1: lady eighty three, early eighty four and moves to this town.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I really kind of enjoyed
Speaker 1: just checking people around. Hey there's another innocent couple that
Speaker 1: I can take my wrath out on. Yeah, but why
Speaker 1: would he actually like physically attack them. Though you've used
Speaker 1: this term before, escalation, Its worked through writing all these
Speaker 1: more vicious and vicious things, and then someday let's take
Speaker 1: it to the let's go face to face with them.
Speaker 1: It's it's not the same, but it's an interesting connection
Speaker 1: of that somebody who went on a campaign for about
Speaker 1: ten years in one town disappeared at a new campaign
Speaker 1: that lasted about another ten years, started up two hours away. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's uh, yeah, it is an interesting connection.
Speaker 1: Although um yeah, yeah. The only thing I'm thinking is
Speaker 1: that he singled out these just this one set of
Speaker 1: people who said of a lot of people like he did,
Speaker 1: and you know back in circle if it's a circle, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that guy went after a lot of the residents of
Speaker 1: that town. He did. I'm still kind of curious about
Speaker 1: that case, but we'll talk about that maybe some of
Speaker 1: the because it is an interesting story. I know a
Speaker 1: few people have suggested that one too, but that's entirely
Speaker 1: possible that it could have just been some dirtbag, although again,
Speaker 1: this doesn't explain why this particular dirtbag chose the Whackers
Speaker 1: of all. People don't really know that they may have
Speaker 1: ignited his rage somehow. There's a few possibilities, which is, uh,
Speaker 1: maybe some neighborhood kids had a grudge against them, which happens.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what kind of people the
Speaker 1: Whackers were, because I know when I was a kid, like,
Speaker 1: we had this, uh, one particular old cajure that lived
Speaker 1: down the street from us, and he hated all the
Speaker 1: neighborhood kids and we hated him all back. And I
Speaker 1: actually never did anything to provoke the guy personally, but still,
Speaker 1: you know, I didn't like him just on general principles,
Speaker 1: and you know, he didn't like that I was a
Speaker 1: kid in my neighborhood. He had the best climbing tree. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course, they always have like the best something exactly,
Speaker 1: and it wasn't fenced in or anything. We always want
Speaker 1: to climb that tree, and he always come out with
Speaker 1: his little ayer gun. He did not like kids. It
Speaker 1: was just we hated him back. You know, you don't
Speaker 1: climb his tree because you hate him. Yeah, yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: But although I actually don't blame him for shooting your
Speaker 1: kids because I wouldn't want kids. I wouldn't want kids
Speaker 1: climbing my tree there for legal nus as well as
Speaker 1: I knew Joe was going to go to legal angle.
Speaker 1: But anyway, so what these kids decide that Bill and
Speaker 1: Dorothy are such old cranks that we're just going to
Speaker 1: torture him. Yeah, or well, I think it was I
Speaker 1: don't think it was a bunch of kids. I think
Speaker 1: what happened. What it could have been is that one
Speaker 1: of those kids grew up and for whatever reason, he
Speaker 1: remembered his grudge. Maybe he wasn't the most you know,
Speaker 1: well adjusted person. Would have been one of the kids
Speaker 1: that went to school with their children something like that too.
Speaker 1: But the reason I don't like this series is that
Speaker 1: there's nothing if you look at their property, there's nothing
Speaker 1: about it that would actually cause them to actually have
Speaker 1: to interact with any kids. I mean, there were no
Speaker 1: attractive nuisances nearby, I know, great climbing trees. Uh, there's
Speaker 1: no reason for the kids to be cutting across their property.
Speaker 1: Well that's why I was saying. Maybe it was a
Speaker 1: kid that one of their kids went to school with.
Speaker 1: And you know, one day the daughter was trying to
Speaker 1: date some or some guy was trying to date their daughter,
Speaker 1: and Bill came out and did the old you know,
Speaker 1: I've got a shotgun and stay away from my girl anythin. Well,
Speaker 1: jerk and never I don't know. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: he could have done long rudge though, you know what,
Speaker 1: it has taken a lot less to set people off.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's the McCoy's in the hat Fields went
Speaker 1: in it for years over the littlest crap ture that
Speaker 1: so we don't really know. Of course, the whackers say
Speaker 1: that they can't imagine who would want to do anything
Speaker 1: like this to them. We're very nice people there, of course,
Speaker 1: so nice people, I know, I know. Yeah, apparently they
Speaker 1: had forgotten about all those people that they fleeced in
Speaker 1: those pyramid schemes back in the nineteen seventies. But uh,
Speaker 1: but they did. They did say that they had no
Speaker 1: idea who possibly could have anything against them, and that's
Speaker 1: what they told the police too. And uh apparently so
Speaker 1: they had let blameless lives and there really was no
Speaker 1: reason for anybody to hate them, or maybe they really
Speaker 1: had screwed so many people they just couldn't pick out
Speaker 1: anyone person in particular. But on the other hand, if
Speaker 1: they had successfully screwed so many people, than you think
Speaker 1: they'd lived in a nicer, bigger house to which they
Speaker 1: weren't real. Yeah, I don't. I don't think there's anything
Speaker 1: to that. That house was pretty modest, so I think
Speaker 1: they probably you know, But but again, you never know
Speaker 1: when you're gonna like, you know, there's even when we
Speaker 1: try to be a decent being's still getting the wrong
Speaker 1: side of somebody. Ye, yeah, it's gonna happen. But yeah,
Speaker 1: as far as some random why some random person would
Speaker 1: select just the whackers, I just don't know. There there
Speaker 1: are cases where stalkers have started stalking people for no
Speaker 1: logical reason. I have, uh, a friend who had who
Speaker 1: knew somebody who was pregnant, young and fairly someonet attractive
Speaker 1: but married and obviously pregnant, and some guys started stalking
Speaker 1: her and it was like, what's going on with that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's no real brhyme or reason to it, So you
Speaker 1: know that it is possible So those are some of
Speaker 1: the theories as to why some mysterious stranger would have
Speaker 1: done this to the whackers. And let's going to a
Speaker 1: sories Phase two. Now Phase two initiated. Yeah, there you
Speaker 1: go click click click clickick Joe, you're showing your age. No,
Speaker 1: no computer, use tape anymore. You can go click click, click, click,
Speaker 1: nothing goes do did you do? Do either? So I
Speaker 1: would crack my phone will if I ask you to know.
Speaker 1: I was thinking about the computer on Star Trek. You
Speaker 1: know what's is I got, you know, conculating and because
Speaker 1: they had a bunch of cards and no, no they
Speaker 1: didn't have cars, had like all sorts of metal rods
Speaker 1: clacking around in there, and the starship Enterprise. You want
Speaker 1: to talk about phase you want to talk about phase two?
Speaker 1: All right? That sort gets a little more interesting, which
Speaker 1: is that another possibility is that could have been one
Speaker 1: or both of the whackers themselves. They were kind of
Speaker 1: psycho and doing this stuff, you know, themselves, for god
Speaker 1: knows what reasons. Yeah, it could have been them. Uh.
Speaker 1: Some people have wondered if perhaps it wasn't them, including
Speaker 1: the police. Well, yeah, like they talked about before, they
Speaker 1: asked Dorothyach thought Bill could do it and absolutely not.
Speaker 1: But obviously some people have wondered this, uh, and so well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna go through these series and we will answer
Speaker 1: the question for you everybody, right, because we had the
Speaker 1: answers to everything. Okay, here's another theory that's out there. Again,
Speaker 1: these are not just my theories or yours. One series
Speaker 1: that Bill did it because he wanted to induce a
Speaker 1: heart attack. One thing that I didn't mention is that
Speaker 1: Dorothy had had some heart issues back in the That's
Speaker 1: why she was home for when she got attacked the
Speaker 1: first time. Yeah, she was recovering from heart surgery. And
Speaker 1: so he was hoping to induce a heart attack and
Speaker 1: Dorothy and collect on her life insurance well, which is
Speaker 1: a possibility, I guess, although I don't know if they
Speaker 1: actually had a life insurance policy, had never heard of one.
Speaker 1: Didn't an exorbitant amount, at least because they would have
Speaker 1: always mentioned it on Unsolved Mysteries if there was. I'm
Speaker 1: sure that's a stock question. Do you have life insurance?
Speaker 1: How much recently? Yeah? Recently? Bam. I Uh. He would
Speaker 1: think that after after at least a couple of years
Speaker 1: of this crap and then no heart attack. Bill would
Speaker 1: have lost his patience and just running over with the lawnmower. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if he was trying to do that, yes, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I didn't see her. I okay. So maybe not insurance.
Speaker 1: But maybe Bill did it just because he was kind
Speaker 1: of sick of Dorothy and wanted to go gone. Mean
Speaker 1: he just dead again, trying to induce the heart attack.
Speaker 1: Maybe that, or maybe you know, he just wanted to
Speaker 1: scare it and moving out. I'm picturing the scenario where
Speaker 1: she's like, oh, Bill, I can't take it anymore. We've
Speaker 1: got to get out of here. Well, I'm not leaving
Speaker 1: for nothing. They're not running me off my land, and no,
Speaker 1: I gotta go. I just gotta go. Okay, Finn, you
Speaker 1: go okay? So you so, yeah, I kind of a
Speaker 1: kind of a little separation there and that that never
Speaker 1: happened either. It might have been the Bill did it
Speaker 1: because he was retired, he was bored, and he wanted
Speaker 1: some attention or just wanted something to do. But maybe
Speaker 1: to flip that around, maybe it was Dorothy and she
Speaker 1: did it for that exact same reason, maybe because she
Speaker 1: was retired and board and maybe because Bill was retired
Speaker 1: and board. She wanted to give him something to do
Speaker 1: because he was getting on her nerves. Maybe that was it.
Speaker 1: So you know, why why someone would you know, hit
Speaker 1: themselves over the head or otherwise inflict bodily harm just
Speaker 1: to give their husband something to do. Well, that's how
Speaker 1: dedicated to why she was. Yeah, we should all strive
Speaker 1: to be that dedicated. Yeah, yeah, that's the first. You
Speaker 1: do that in your honeymoon and flicked a serious head
Speaker 1: injury in yourself just for yourhubby. Okay, yeah, we'll do that.
Speaker 1: Well scuba diving, Yeah, exactly, it always works out the
Speaker 1: best thing, Yeah, I think so. Yeah, just wait that
Speaker 1: best really heavy? Yeah, super heavy, and what's another series? Well,
Speaker 1: Bill and Dorothy both did it for any mixture of
Speaker 1: the above reasons. They were bored and wanted attention. Maybe
Speaker 1: when the discussions online, I'm sure you guys read a
Speaker 1: lot of this stuff. At least about half the people
Speaker 1: out there just don't like this sory. There's the reasoning
Speaker 1: is kind of like, I just can't imagine two old
Speaker 1: people doing something like that. Sure, if they were younger,
Speaker 1: young people do scummy stuff all the time, but as
Speaker 1: people cross that line in the old age, that scumminess disappears,
Speaker 1: totally disappears. There's no such thing as a scunny old person.
Speaker 1: Never happened ever, Oh I know, I know, And yeah,
Speaker 1: you can go your whole life with an i Q
Speaker 1: of eighty five, but when you cross the age of
Speaker 1: sixty five, suddenly your why don't don't don't ask me
Speaker 1: how it happens. But yeah, count Yeah, so it could
Speaker 1: be that one of the wackers put on this whole
Speaker 1: show again bodily harm but that but the story over
Speaker 1: all doesn't and it doesn't really make a lot of
Speaker 1: sense Otherwise when you really think about it, I would
Speaker 1: say that I disagree with that because I just realized
Speaker 1: you are missing something from this list of Phase two suspects.
Speaker 1: A family member kids. Yeah, well, okay, so if you
Speaker 1: stop and think about this, it could have been the kids,
Speaker 1: or it could have been a grand kid, okay, because
Speaker 1: they're in their fifties and sixties, so it's possible but
Speaker 1: probably unlikely there was a grandkid. But there's a lot
Speaker 1: of things that made me think that it was family member.
Speaker 1: I tried to dig up records on anybody in their family,
Speaker 1: because there's the daughters and the son in laws, and
Speaker 1: I got one of our mods who is good with
Speaker 1: some of that kind of research to help me out
Speaker 1: to try and find stuff on them. But if you
Speaker 1: think about it, they changed their phone number multiple times,
Speaker 1: and the person had it almost right away they were home,
Speaker 1: and the person always knew when they were home or
Speaker 1: more importantly, when they were gone to break in, and
Speaker 1: they didn't report the first couple of burglaries, which almost
Speaker 1: gives me the idea that maybe they knew that the
Speaker 1: black sheep of the family, you know, was having issues.
Speaker 1: I mean it could be somebody on medication issues for
Speaker 1: mental health reasons or just something like that. And so you, oh,
Speaker 1: oh so great, Justin I figured out is off of
Speaker 1: his meds. Again, We're not going to call the cops.
Speaker 1: He's you know, he's going to get the help he
Speaker 1: needs and it'll be fine. And then Justin just does
Speaker 1: it again, and of Finn, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like people do that for their family. They will put
Speaker 1: up with a lot of crush and families. I mean,
Speaker 1: it could be maybe Bill and Dorothy had no idea,
Speaker 1: but you know, one of their daughters totally knew and
Speaker 1: was covering for that person, whether it be again for
Speaker 1: you know, somebody with medication, because the medication issues is
Speaker 1: what I always think of when I feel when I
Speaker 1: read about the the six months to year gaps, because
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes people are on the straight and narrow
Speaker 1: and then something happens and suddenly they're a kimbo again,
Speaker 1: and then they are going to go ahead and start
Speaker 1: doing these weird things. There's just too much that's too
Speaker 1: close to home for me to say that it's anybody
Speaker 1: but a family member. That's that's my problem with this
Speaker 1: whole story. I guess I just keep having that issue
Speaker 1: with the with the actual physical attacks. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: it's one thing to say, Okay, well, you know Justin
Speaker 1: was office Medsin came in, was like knocking on doors
Speaker 1: and like writing stupid letters and like kind of doing
Speaker 1: I don't almost just like you know, pultry stuff, right,
Speaker 1: you know, the kind of just annoying stuff. But it's
Speaker 1: another thing to say, like and then Justin hit her
Speaker 1: over the head as hard as he freaking could with
Speaker 1: a bat and left her for dead, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Like those are two very different. But if
Speaker 1: Justin is completely off his rocker, maybe he may not
Speaker 1: have that thing and you know, okay, so, and the
Speaker 1: the other side of this is okay, So we're saying,
Speaker 1: maybe this is somebody who's being corrected by their medication.
Speaker 1: Could be the black sheep of the family who, let's say,
Speaker 1: has a drug problem and so they're needing money. So
Speaker 1: that attack on Dorothy where the guy had the car issues,
Speaker 1: could very easily have been Justin got his buddy Aaron
Speaker 1: and said, hey, Aaron, go knock on the door and
Speaker 1: use the phone, and then you leave the door open
Speaker 1: and I'll come in and I'll clock her on the
Speaker 1: head and we'll we'll get some stuff so we can
Speaker 1: score some smack. I mean it rings of that same
Speaker 1: kind of scenario, but something justin air and have gotten
Speaker 1: off of everything. But then Justin comes to his senses
Speaker 1: and feels bad and slowly starts giving it back. But
Speaker 1: it's still does weird crap. How was it going to
Speaker 1: give back to stuff that they pond or trade for drugs?
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know the answer to this. I mean,
Speaker 1: maybe Aaron got cold feet once they let the house.
Speaker 1: I have no idea what went down here, but my
Speaker 1: point is it just seems too close to home. Have
Speaker 1: you guys Um, there's the Kaikendal case. Did you guys
Speaker 1: ever read about that one? Okay, this is a family
Speaker 1: that started getting harassing text messages and the text messages
Speaker 1: were supposedly originating from one of their own, chilled, sixteen
Speaker 1: year old daughter's phones, and people are like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: they're being stocked. There being you know, so they change
Speaker 1: phones and it keeps happening. People, well, they must be hated,
Speaker 1: but really, so much evidence. I mean, they went through
Speaker 1: like three or four or five phones of piece, changing
Speaker 1: their numbers and changing physical devices, and somehow this kept happening.
Speaker 1: It's like, no, this is this is way too close
Speaker 1: to home. Somebody in the family, probably the owner of
Speaker 1: the original phone, is doing it. And that's this makes
Speaker 1: me think of that same kind of case, where it's
Speaker 1: just it's too easy, it's too easy to say it's
Speaker 1: some outside mysterious person. Yeah, no, I think it was
Speaker 1: the bid. Yeah. I do agree that if it was
Speaker 1: somebody other than Dorothy your Bill or Dorothy end Bill, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it probably was somebody close to home, like a neighbor
Speaker 1: or family member, you know, somebody, somebody you know who
Speaker 1: knew them well enough to know their habits. And stuff
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, probably so. Um, but then again, but
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about Bill and Dorothy as suspects.
Speaker 1: So which is I still think that that really, when
Speaker 1: you think about this case, it makes the most sense
Speaker 1: because again, the first two break ins, like you say,
Speaker 1: weren't reported in eighty four because they thought, well, maybe
Speaker 1: it was a family member. Then why report the third
Speaker 1: one if you know it's the same family member, You know,
Speaker 1: why report that one if you're worried about gett him
Speaker 1: in trouble? And then um, again we talked a little
Speaker 1: bit about Dorothy letting a stranger into the house and
Speaker 1: then just leaving the room, something most of us just
Speaker 1: wouldn't do. That doesn't make a lot of sense. It doesn't, Uh,
Speaker 1: it really does. I don't think old people are all
Speaker 1: that trusting. A lot of people on the web saying,
Speaker 1: but old people are so trusting. No, I've had lots
Speaker 1: of old people that were a lot less trusting than me,
Speaker 1: And I'm not that damn trusting, all right, I gotta
Speaker 1: tell you though. Unfortunately I have family members who were
Speaker 1: elderly who would do this, who would say the phone
Speaker 1: is right there, and go into the kitchen and start
Speaker 1: dinking around doing whatever they were doing, and then because
Speaker 1: they're hearing is crap, not hear anything, and presume the
Speaker 1: person had left. I mean, these are the kind of
Speaker 1: family members where you're like, please lock your door if
Speaker 1: it's fine, people are great, they're nice. Yeah, well, you
Speaker 1: know again, this is like to me, is because I mean,
Speaker 1: Dorothy wasn't that old where she's gotten to the point
Speaker 1: where she's kind of losing it. She's not a daughter
Speaker 1: and old woman, not, not by any stretch of the imagination.
Speaker 1: Doesn't it's not beyond the realm of possibility. But just
Speaker 1: it's just most of us, in fact, almost all of
Speaker 1: us would want to have sort of an eye and
Speaker 1: the guy just to make sure he's not, you know,
Speaker 1: going through drawers and pocketing stuff while he's pretending to
Speaker 1: be talking on the phone. Uh. And of course there's
Speaker 1: the issue of the guy's car. I mean, assumably he
Speaker 1: parked down the road so nobody would see his car,
Speaker 1: so he Are you asserting that they this is all
Speaker 1: made up? Uh? Yeah, okay, So you're saying that the
Speaker 1: first two break ins were totally made up fabrications, the
Speaker 1: second the third one was staged. The third was staged okay,
Speaker 1: and then that the total that I don't know. Northeast said, okay,
Speaker 1: Bill hit me over the head. We're gonna think we're
Speaker 1: going to kick it up a notch. We're not getting
Speaker 1: attention we want. She didn't have what we can tell,
Speaker 1: any notable injuries from the first assault, so it could
Speaker 1: very well be that Bill tied her up and said, okay,
Speaker 1: hold still, I'm going to open the fridge door and
Speaker 1: whack you on the nogging with it. I mean, that
Speaker 1: could be the level of I mean, so I get
Speaker 1: where Joe is going. I mean, so far, it seems
Speaker 1: that the pair in in tandem could have pulled most
Speaker 1: of them. I totally agree with that. I just want
Speaker 1: to ask clarifying questions because I I really I believe
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I think the most logical explanations.
Speaker 1: But they did it together. But the only thing that
Speaker 1: makes sense of this situation, the one the one holdover
Speaker 1: I do have is the the physical injuries. But even then,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like, I don't know. At some point,
Speaker 1: let me talk about that in a second. Well, we
Speaker 1: talked about the guy's car um so that stolen stolen
Speaker 1: goods and stuff like that. I mean the guy, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure what was happening. I think I
Speaker 1: can imagine what happened here, and that is that Dorothy's
Speaker 1: talking to the police and said, oh, yeah, this guy
Speaker 1: wanted this guy wanted to like, you know, coming to
Speaker 1: use my phone because his car was broken down. And
Speaker 1: then and after they got a description of him, they said, okay,
Speaker 1: and by the way, what color was his car? What
Speaker 1: make was his car? And she said, she's like car
Speaker 1: And the police like, well, yeah, I mean, if he
Speaker 1: was broken down, wouldn't it might be that she had
Speaker 1: and that hadn't really occurred to her. And she's like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: there was no car. In fact, I asked her what
Speaker 1: the car. He said, he was broken down down the road.
Speaker 1: Of course, the big question is if he broke down
Speaker 1: down the road, why didn't he stop at one of
Speaker 1: the other many houses between his car and my head? Well,
Speaker 1: maybe he did, but she was the only one home.
Speaker 1: That's entirely possible to But still that's just another another
Speaker 1: thing about this story that that doesn't quite add the
Speaker 1: missing car. The another thing that doesn't quite add up
Speaker 1: is he's stolen advers being returned. If if as you say, Steve,
Speaker 1: the person had a fit of remorse, perhaps like the
Speaker 1: family member. I could sort of see that happening, except,
Speaker 1: of course, if you know somebody who steals him for drugs,
Speaker 1: he's not going to have him in his hands for
Speaker 1: more than like five hours, or they're gone forever. I
Speaker 1: guess the supposition is you could he could have pawned
Speaker 1: them and then at gotten them back. I mean, it
Speaker 1: could be a small enough place that things like a
Speaker 1: movie camera don't move that fast, and he got them back,
Speaker 1: and that's why they were coming in increments. Because that's
Speaker 1: one of my questions is if he had at all,
Speaker 1: why wouldn't you just say, whoops, here's a bag full
Speaker 1: of all the stuff I took. Why why do it
Speaker 1: over the course of, you know, a couple of times,
Speaker 1: and then there by increasing your chance of being caught
Speaker 1: dropping those things. But of course, but of course, the
Speaker 1: way the story is is given to us, the drawing
Speaker 1: out of the return of them is very impish behavior.
Speaker 1: Oh I got the one later on, here you go,
Speaker 1: here's the next one here. But I can see it
Speaker 1: being a pawning situation. So that's a good that's a
Speaker 1: good idea. Where they were just you know that's in
Speaker 1: the series. That's the way they got it back, and
Speaker 1: that that would also explain why the gun was first,
Speaker 1: because you would, you know, someone's gun making it on
Speaker 1: the streets that isn't want to buy that one back
Speaker 1: at first. Problem that's probably in many ways the most
Speaker 1: useful at him there, you know, so you definitely want
Speaker 1: to get that back first. Uh. And I like that idea.
Speaker 1: The only problem I have with it is that if
Speaker 1: somebody is feeling remorse, and you know, maybe they did,
Speaker 1: why would they continue with these attacks on their house
Speaker 1: and stuff. Although maybe again, like you're saying, like it
Speaker 1: was like sort of maybe somebody on medications who slipped
Speaker 1: on an office technical behavior. You know, so at times
Speaker 1: he's feeling a little remorse, trying to night he's not
Speaker 1: doing it, and then for whatever reason, he goes to
Speaker 1: another one of these cycles and he's doing it some
Speaker 1: cred of compulsive behavior and then but then get back.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about another thing that makes no sense, which
Speaker 1: was the November nine three stick out again. Believe what
Speaker 1: I called that goofy yeah, gaofy or something or cluji
Speaker 1: or something, But I think yeah is not a word.
Speaker 1: I know it's not. That's why I was really called. Well,
Speaker 1: it's it's a word now, hey, bringing it back, Hey listeners, Yeah,
Speaker 1: your marching orders make this a word. Everybody use it? Yes?
Speaker 1: Did you say sploogie scloogie scloogee? Okay, Okay, you gotta guys,
Speaker 1: you know, and Devin, you message this too. Is what
Speaker 1: are they doing? Like stick in this place out on
Speaker 1: the on the off off, tiny tiny chance this guy
Speaker 1: is gonna show up just one in particular night, or
Speaker 1: maybe this one series of nights. I mean, because that's
Speaker 1: a lot of time to invest, just sitting there in
Speaker 1: the dark and the cold. I'm sure Ohio and late
Speaker 1: November it's probably pretty chilly out. Yeah. And so that's
Speaker 1: which is why it makes me think that it had
Speaker 1: to be so obvious, because I bet you the van
Speaker 1: was running to keep the heater going. I bet you
Speaker 1: Bill had some kind of heat or in the trailer,
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't be surprised that it probably was. If
Speaker 1: it was a gas heater would have put off light,
Speaker 1: and if it was an electric heater, it would have
Speaker 1: been making noise. So it's again, they weren't hiding very well. No,
Speaker 1: I'm sure they weren't nearly as subtle as they thought
Speaker 1: they were being on the end, so the attack finally
Speaker 1: happens that that time they just happened to be there.
Speaker 1: But also the the attacker I wait untill they decided
Speaker 1: to hang it up for the night, and it's almost
Speaker 1: like he was listening in on the radio, which makes
Speaker 1: them kind of a clever little fiend or justin. But
Speaker 1: again we have been there again. On the other hand,
Speaker 1: we got all and we talked about this is the
Speaker 1: more severe injury Dorothy got in when he got she
Speaker 1: got watched on the head. And the thinking goes that
Speaker 1: either Bill did us to Dorothy. But Bill wouldn't do
Speaker 1: that because he's not that kind of guy. But by
Speaker 1: the way, that would be dangerous. He could kill do
Speaker 1: with by whacking her on the head that hard, unless
Speaker 1: he was trying to kill her. Maybe that's a good Hi,
Speaker 1: let's take I'm gonna up the game a little bit.
Speaker 1: Just hold still, I promise it will be okay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, it's like, what are you waiting for? Bill?
Speaker 1: Are you afraid you get a kill her? No, I'm
Speaker 1: afraid I won't. Okay. Well, but then there's also Dorothy
Speaker 1: could have done it to herself, which also seems very
Speaker 1: unlikely inflicting that kind of a wound on yourself. But
Speaker 1: on the other hand, people do fall and bang their
Speaker 1: heads all the time. I have a friend who just
Speaker 1: recently did her to herself. She just fell in bang
Speaker 1: her head and she had to get her scalp like
Speaker 1: stitched like staple back to her skull. Yeah, she got herself,
Speaker 1: you know line, Yeah, exactly. He used the red one, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the sturch. And it's like this, where's the red one?
Speaker 1: I don't know, sir, We'll stop everything. I only use
Speaker 1: the red one, all right, But it's pretty crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But but it could have been to Dorothy just had
Speaker 1: an accident this. I said, hey, let's not let this
Speaker 1: go to this opportunity to go to waste. Let's call
Speaker 1: the police and say that somebody costed me when actually
Speaker 1: I just fell in banging my head. So it could
Speaker 1: have been that. I wonder if they had a certain honestly,
Speaker 1: I wonder if they hadn't like a certain kind of
Speaker 1: insurance like they were collecting off of the claim. So no,
Speaker 1: I mean that, like, maybe this is totally total bunk.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry that I even said it, but what if
Speaker 1: they only their insurance only covered like you know how
Speaker 1: auto insurance you can have, like I only can be
Speaker 1: covered if I hit someone, not if like I run
Speaker 1: into a pole, right like I wonder if they hadn't.
Speaker 1: I don't even know if that exists. But some sort
Speaker 1: of insurance where I was like stipulation, yea, if somebody
Speaker 1: causes damage to me, it's free to get this care.
Speaker 1: But if I cause it, if I have an accident
Speaker 1: and cause it to myself while then I'm but that
Speaker 1: doesn't explain. Yeah, that doesn't explain what you do it well, no,
Speaker 1: but it would explain if you had a fall, why
Speaker 1: you would say somebody hit me? That makes sense. I
Speaker 1: mean actually, years ago I used to work with an
Speaker 1: insurance company, and there is an accident benefit. So if
Speaker 1: you if you get something to an accident, then you
Speaker 1: do actually get a higher reimbursement rate, like it's instead
Speaker 1: of like or something like that. But I think the
Speaker 1: additional accident benefit is the same as if it's a
Speaker 1: criminal thing. It's like maybe maybe it is like a
Speaker 1: hund percent if it's a you know, a criminal attack.
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know, I don't know. Anyway, that's possibility.
Speaker 1: I mean, my theory is that it was maybe likely
Speaker 1: both of them, but if it was going to be
Speaker 1: one or the other, I would have to pick Dorothy
Speaker 1: as superb. And so Dorothy was masquerading is justin Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we gotta call it Justine Justine. Yeah. Well one thing,
Speaker 1: of course, there is the head injury, especially the but
Speaker 1: also the November incident. She was the only one who
Speaker 1: was really positioned to thump on the wall of the
Speaker 1: house and also leave the note. Yeah, so she thinks
Speaker 1: she was sumping on the inside of the house. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because here's how it works, and so what I can
Speaker 1: see it now. It happened right after they decided to
Speaker 1: hang them out, So everybody gets in the radio. It's
Speaker 1: as well, we're gonna call it tonight. So what happens
Speaker 1: to Kathy her daughter? Of course, we choose that moment
Speaker 1: to get up, pick up the plates or the cups
Speaker 1: or whatever, and walk out to the kitchen to put
Speaker 1: him in the sink. So perfect opportunity for Dorothy. You'll
Speaker 1: lean around and go lump, tump, tump, tump tump on
Speaker 1: the wall of the house and again then jump up
Speaker 1: and go what was that? And then run outside onto
Speaker 1: the porch and dropped the note in the meantime. I
Speaker 1: mean she was perfectly positioned, the only one of the
Speaker 1: the only one of the two. Really well wait, okay, wait,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna ask clarifying question about that. Who
Speaker 1: is the one that I'm trying not to remember what
Speaker 1: I saw on the episode because I don't want it
Speaker 1: to color this And maybe you don't know and who
Speaker 1: found the note? I think that if I remember right
Speaker 1: on the in the they don't. I don't know who
Speaker 1: actually saw it and picked it up. Okay, in the episode,
Speaker 1: I believe Bill reaches down and picks it up, But
Speaker 1: I don't know that for a fact, which is why
Speaker 1: I'm like, wait, you can't because it could have been
Speaker 1: Bill had it in his pocket and when bends over
Speaker 1: and look what I found the quarter behind the ear trip. Oh,
Speaker 1: totally and totally, And the same thing with the same
Speaker 1: thing with I mean with Dorothy, she could have just
Speaker 1: walked out and been over apart way and then ben back.
Speaker 1: I'm with a note in her hand like this. I'm
Speaker 1: just saying that if it had to be just one
Speaker 1: of them and not a collusion between the two, and
Speaker 1: that I would say Dorothy is the one. Well, and
Speaker 1: it seems to bother Bill more than it bothered Dorothy.
Speaker 1: So I can see even that. You know, they had
Speaker 1: months where things were fine and then he'd do something
Speaker 1: to annoy and she'd just go, all right, your jerk,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be another night. And they had that really
Speaker 1: heavy piece of furniture. She knew she shoved it, it it
Speaker 1: would go funk funk, funk funk as it rocked back
Speaker 1: and forth. Yeah, I'm imagining that. You know, she goes
Speaker 1: to one of the bedrooms on the driveway side of
Speaker 1: the house, slides the window open surreptitiously, and she's got
Speaker 1: like a like a broomstick with like a boxing glove
Speaker 1: on the endement dump bump bump on the side of
Speaker 1: the house and then and then pulled it in real
Speaker 1: fast and then run into the liver And Bill, did
Speaker 1: you hear that? And yeah, I totally imagine. And while
Speaker 1: he's outside with this gun, she hides the boxing glove.
Speaker 1: He comes back in. What are you doing? Just sweeping exactly?
Speaker 1: Take advantage. Yeah. So a lot of people are all, like,
Speaker 1: you know, like thinking it was Bill, but I'm thinking
Speaker 1: more Dorothy I'm thinking Dorothy. I still think that it's
Speaker 1: got to be some family member or close neighbor poltergeist.
Speaker 1: There's always that. Okay, uh huh, alright, there you go.
Speaker 1: So that wraps it up for this week, I think,
Speaker 1: unless do you guys have any of the theories or
Speaker 1: anything anything that would cause you to lean more towards
Speaker 1: Bill versus Dorothy or Dorothy or Bill. Yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: well we'll gonna call it Dorothy, although I want caveat
Speaker 1: of course, you know, we may be wrong, but if
Speaker 1: you have a favorite theory about this one, you'd like
Speaker 1: to contact us. Of course, our email is Thinking Sideways
Speaker 1: Podcast at gmail dot com. Uh. And of course you
Speaker 1: can find us on iTunes where you can you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, download episodes. You can like, you know,
Speaker 1: like subscribe, you can rate us, you can review us. Uh.
Speaker 1: Obviously the better the rating and the review, the better
Speaker 1: we like you. So hey. Uh. There's also streaming services
Speaker 1: like Stature they're a good one, and Google Play and
Speaker 1: god knows how many other ones there are. Uh. We're
Speaker 1: also on Facebook. We have a group in page and
Speaker 1: you don't friend us, but you do join the group,
Speaker 1: and there's lots of discussions. It's a fun time, good
Speaker 1: group of people. And so I said, like the page
Speaker 1: joined the group, they enjoining the fun. And of course
Speaker 1: we are on Twitter where we are Thinking Sideways and
Speaker 1: most of the Twitter messages you'll see out there, actually
Speaker 1: probably all of them are written by Devon. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: pretty much. Yeah I have but that's okay, but yeah,
Speaker 1: definitely follow us on Twitter. And last of all, we
Speaker 1: have a website, believe it or not, it's Thinking Sideways
Speaker 1: podcast dot com and where you can also download our episodes.
Speaker 1: And there's merch if you over on the right hand
Speaker 1: side there, like Zazzlin, red Bubble. You can buy mugs
Speaker 1: and T shirts and I don't know all kinds of stuff,
Speaker 1: okay anyway, So that's pretty much it for me. You
Speaker 1: guys have any further comment, probably going no, but don't
Speaker 1: get your gun out later when you hear thumping on
Speaker 1: the side of your house, Joe, Yeah, I know, I know.
Speaker 1: It's seriously, I sealed my face. I know what you
Speaker 1: guys are gonna be doing tonight. Yeah, alright, bye bye guys.