Speaker 1: Warning. This podcast contained spoilers for season four, episode nine
Speaker 1: of Succession on HBO and season two episode eight of
Speaker 1: Yellow Jackets on the Beleagered Showtime Network. Hello. My name
Speaker 1: is Jason Concepcio and I'm Rosie Knight, and welcome to
Speaker 1: x revision of the Crooked Media podcast, where we dive
Speaker 1: deep in to your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture.
Speaker 2: In this episode, Market Moves, It's rip to that Man
Speaker 2: in Succession season four, episode nine, what happens when a
Speaker 2: business titan like Logan Mory dies? We will find out
Speaker 2: air Lock. It's Yellowjackets season two, episode eight. And if
Speaker 2: you were hoping it was going to be more hopeful
Speaker 2: than the last two episodes, you're wrong. It's a total
Speaker 2: bummer in the best way, of course, and in not out.
Speaker 2: I'm very excited for this one. It's Maya talking about
Speaker 2: Pacific Rim, one of my favorite movies. Underrated gem love it,
Speaker 2: Love it up.
Speaker 1: Next, Market Boobs. When I was a young boy, my
Speaker 1: father locked me into a kennel and said, now you're
Speaker 1: a dog. He said, Roam, you're a dog.
Speaker 2: Now do dog things.
Speaker 1: Scratch with your hind legs, eat kibble from a bowl,
Speaker 1: he said, Hey, are you a sicko? Because I sexed
Speaker 1: Jerry who was a million years old. Now Mankin is
Speaker 1: funeral and Ken knows I fucked it.
Speaker 2: I fucked it.
Speaker 1: I guess I really fucked it. It's time for Market Moves. Yeah,
Speaker 1: your number one source for passive income, active income, aggressive income,
Speaker 1: and all kinds of income that flows directly into your numerous,
Speaker 1: unnumbered bank accounts stashed anonymously all over the globe.
Speaker 2: Don't pay taxes.
Speaker 1: Talk to you now, why? Of course that doesn't even
Speaker 1: need to be said.
Speaker 2: To pay them.
Speaker 1: Over here at Market Moves we live. We live by
Speaker 1: two rules. Don't pay taxes and buy drones.
Speaker 2: That's it. Oh, you need to know.
Speaker 1: We're here to We're here to talk about Episode nine,
Speaker 1: Church and State of the Succession television program, season four,
Speaker 1: directed by Mark Mylott, written by Jesse Armstrong, and we
Speaker 1: open on the wake of election Day. New York City
Speaker 1: and the country in general are in an uproar because
Speaker 1: of the events of election night. Protests of an increasingly
Speaker 1: hysterical nature are everywhere in the city, focused primarily on
Speaker 1: atn HQ. Tom wams Gans is under a particular scrutiny
Speaker 1: because he is the guy who made the call. There's
Speaker 1: a TikTok story in New York and the New York Times,
Speaker 1: the liberal New York Times about who made the call
Speaker 1: and how it happened and who did what. Meanwhile, preparations
Speaker 1: are of course underway for the great Man himself Logan
Speaker 1: Roy's funeral. Roman Roy is practicing his speech for the
Speaker 1: Big Energy Spot. You will recall the previous episode he
Speaker 1: had locked down that Big Energy Spot. Well, now he's
Speaker 1: kind of running through his lines and guess what, he's unworried.
Speaker 1: He is chilling, he grieved, he's chilling all the stuff
Speaker 1: in the streets. You know. Carrie's looking great. He's putting
Speaker 1: on face cream, he's wearing his suits. He looks good.
Speaker 1: He's ready for it. Ken calls and says, hey, Rome, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know your buddy Jared Mencoln, the future president of
Speaker 1: the United States. Could you get him to turn down
Speaker 1: the heat on the rhetoric a little, maybe stop firing
Speaker 1: up the ops because it is the day of our
Speaker 1: dad's funeral and uh, you know other stuff. Just get
Speaker 1: him chill out. Rome is like whatever. Then Ken gets
Speaker 1: a call from Rava, his ex, and she basically says, hey, Ken,
Speaker 1: the city's aflame. It's scary out there in these streets,
Speaker 1: thanks in no small part to you and your family.
Speaker 1: And so I've decided to take our beautiful children, Sophie
Speaker 1: and Iverson. Every time I've decided to take our children,
Speaker 1: Sovie and Iverson out of the city. Ken loses it,
Speaker 1: drives at high speed across the city in front of
Speaker 1: V's cars. All types of laws, but you know what
Speaker 1: are what are laws to a great man such as
Speaker 1: Ken Roy Nothing. He gets there just as they're pulling away,
Speaker 1: and he's like, listen, you can't take my kids out
Speaker 1: of the city. I'm gonna get an injunction from the
Speaker 1: governor or whoever to make sure that legally you can't
Speaker 1: flee the city with my children. And by the way,
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do. You're gonna fucking run me over.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna lay in front of your car. Is that
Speaker 1: what you want to do? And Ravas says, whatever, I'm leaving.
Speaker 1: She gets in the car and leaves. First prompts Rosie,
Speaker 1: what's this problem? What's that problem?
Speaker 2: What's going on?
Speaker 1: I mean, sure, sure, sure.
Speaker 2: How kids I'll being threatened? How young child might be being.
Speaker 1: Everybody's kids are threatened by a See, you know, kids
Speaker 1: are small, that's what.
Speaker 2: That's what happens. That's small. They can't fight for themselves.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Oh, suddenly she wants to go up state. Can't go
Speaker 2: to racist Ken's racist dad's funeral. I see, seems very coincidental.
Speaker 2: As Ken says, she's too online, she's dumb. Why does
Speaker 2: she believe this? You know, Nazis are running wild in
Speaker 2: the streets. Who cares? She doesn't care. Also, I will
Speaker 2: point out that right rather's got the best of both worlds.
Speaker 2: She's the ex wife of a billionaire, so the anarchists
Speaker 2: hate her, and her child is Indian, so the Nazis
Speaker 2: hate her. I mean, what else? What could she want?
Speaker 2: What more? What's wrong with her?
Speaker 1: I think it's time for Sophie and Iverson who I'm guessing.
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like, you know, I test measuring their age.
Speaker 1: I'm going to put them at like twelve and thirteen
Speaker 1: somewhere around there. I think it's time for them to
Speaker 1: be the bigger person. I think it's time for them
Speaker 1: to show a little adult responsibility, a little you know,
Speaker 1: just to be the bigger person in this and say yeah,
Speaker 1: my granddad fostered some of the worst impulses currently infecting
Speaker 1: the national body, and my dad helped elect a raving
Speaker 1: racist whose followers have attacked me in the streets. But
Speaker 1: for the sake of the country, I'm gonna show unity
Speaker 1: right now, gonna I'm gonna go to this funeral. And
Speaker 1: I know kids love funeral, they love them.
Speaker 2: And also there's like five hundred people that you know,
Speaker 2: they need those extra bodies in the room, like otherwise
Speaker 2: it's gonna look suspicious. Okay, be prompt. How likely is
Speaker 2: it that can gets custody?
Speaker 1: Zero? Zero? I mean, first of all, I yeah, I
Speaker 1: have a wrong suspicion that the kids are gonna say
Speaker 1: we don't want to we we don't want a change
Speaker 1: in the customer situation. And I think the fact that
Speaker 1: Ken sees his kids like once every six to eight months,
Speaker 1: maybe ye leads me to believe that Rava, who is
Speaker 1: you know, there on the ground on the day to
Speaker 1: day and the minute to minute raising of the children
Speaker 1: will continue in that regard, despite the fact that, like
Speaker 1: a coward, she is fleeing the greatest city on earth
Speaker 1: just because of a few bad apples.
Speaker 2: Nothing to worry about.
Speaker 1: That's it nothing to worry about. The fine people of
Speaker 1: the NYPD will keep them safe. Shive then shive, then
Speaker 1: shive then prevails on Lucas Matson to release this statement
Speaker 1: on those pesky Indian numbers. Got to release the statement
Speaker 1: about those Indian numbers. Listen, there's never gonna be a
Speaker 1: better time. The country is falling apart. Protesters are in
Speaker 1: the streets. Everybody is consumed with how the fuck did
Speaker 1: this guy, Jared macer get elected? Is he even elected?
Speaker 2: Is it legal?
Speaker 1: What the hell's going on? Is it legal? Protests, counter protests, fires, riots,
Speaker 1: Just release the Indian numbers. Nobody's gonna fucking kid.
Speaker 2: She was right?
Speaker 1: Matson? Meanwhile, is like she was right? Matson. Meanwhile, it
Speaker 1: was like, Hey, get me in a room with Jared Macon.
Speaker 1: I am, after all, a very tall, white, blonde man.
Speaker 1: I think as a Nazi he would look an aria
Speaker 1: at at and he will understand. Yeah, I think he'll
Speaker 1: understand I'm someone he can work with and atn Tom
Speaker 1: is of course dealing with the hectic newsday. Is these
Speaker 1: protests rack the country?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: And he's also consumed with the fact that in that
Speaker 1: New York Times story, about how the call happened. He
Speaker 1: is frankly not given enough credit for making the call.
Speaker 2: He's like, hey, if I if I'm if I'm the
Speaker 2: one who made the call. Look Tom's right, He's like,
Speaker 2: if I'm the one who made the call, if I
Speaker 2: made the Nazi powerful, I want to get my Gobels money.
Speaker 2: Where's my where's my credit? I want people to know
Speaker 2: I am the pr person for the Nazi. I'm only
Speaker 2: getting a little. I'm getting a little, one sentence in
Speaker 2: this giant two page spread. That's it. That's it. Why
Speaker 2: is Darwin getting all the credit?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Fuck Darwin.
Speaker 2: He didn't even want to do I want.
Speaker 1: To do it. Also, Tom is the wheelman. I think
Speaker 1: back right, he's front, front right, So he's got a
Speaker 1: front right. That is a prime spot, folks. And so
Speaker 1: that means he's got to get out of there, got
Speaker 1: to get to the church. But of course, you know,
Speaker 1: things are really again, very very busy at eighteen headquarters. Later,
Speaker 1: Ken learns that his stalwart assistant since season one, Jess,
Speaker 1: who has put up with all manner of things in
Speaker 1: service to kenroy Is, is leaving him. Is taking her leave.
Speaker 1: He gets really petulant about it. And he's like, hey,
Speaker 1: you'll never get access like this again, like a thought
Speaker 1: leader or you know, like a business leader. And then
Speaker 1: he's like, hey, so is this about mencing? Why? Just
Speaker 1: because it is about mancing with your kids, and it
Speaker 1: is about mencing with your ex wife, and it is
Speaker 1: about macon with your fan the whole country, manking in
Speaker 1: every other sphere and the whole country. Just because it's
Speaker 1: about mancing with everybody else, it has to be about
Speaker 1: making with Jess ps, it's probably about mencoing. And then
Speaker 1: he closes with you have no idea how things will
Speaker 1: turn out. It's very juvenile.
Speaker 2: He says, you're the fucking your job, dumb great great job,
Speaker 2: great job. Can well definitely gonna keep Jess around. And honestly,
Speaker 2: Jess has put up with so much shit I truly
Speaker 2: cannot believe this is the straw that I think that
Speaker 2: A key moment is when she tried to get Greg
Speaker 2: to not tell them to call it. She was like,
Speaker 2: you could just delay it for a few minutes. And
Speaker 2: he's like, well, someone's got to call it, and she's
Speaker 2: like and she's like, yeah, they're all fucked, Like Jess is,
Speaker 2: it's all about menkin and Jess is on her way out,
Speaker 2: and I think Kendall is starting to realize now it
Speaker 2: is all about Menkin.
Speaker 1: That leads us to prompt number two. What is the
Speaker 1: very best thing about working for a demanding boss who
Speaker 1: you don't respect?
Speaker 2: I would hope in this case it would be lots
Speaker 2: of money, because the Roys are extremely friach. I would
Speaker 2: also hope, I hope it is that. I would also
Speaker 2: hope that Jess had taken advantage of Kendall's ego and
Speaker 2: his need to be cool to maybe get some stock options.
Speaker 2: I feel like Jess could be coming out of this
Speaker 2: in a very profitable way. I also feel like Jess,
Speaker 2: if she wanted to go more like the Jerry route,
Speaker 2: probably has some quite legit skeletons that she could unbury
Speaker 2: for the Roys. So I think not respecting a rich
Speaker 2: and powerful man is always fun. So that's a boon.
Speaker 2: But I would hope for Jess lots and lots of
Speaker 2: money would be the best thing.
Speaker 1: What do you think, and of course the access What
Speaker 1: do you think that the access to ken you know,
Speaker 1: like Kendall Roy a bad human being? Do you what?
Speaker 1: What do you think Jess is pulling down in the
Speaker 1: employee of kendlroy I too.
Speaker 2: I think so there is a generally, there's a general
Speaker 2: rule that if you are an assistant a PA, even
Speaker 2: for like a big person or in a bank, they
Speaker 2: generally say you'll never learn earn more than sixty sixty K.
Speaker 2: But we know that's not true. I think I think
Speaker 2: you're right. I think she's probably worked her way up
Speaker 2: to about one fifty with bonuses, and it's definitely not
Speaker 2: enough because that is fucking pocket change for these schmos.
Speaker 1: Destroy it. I mean, being a accessory to the destruction
Speaker 1: of the country for a one fifty a year, like
Speaker 1: I just get that military budget money eight hundred billion.
Speaker 1: At the church, Roman approaches Frank about coming aboard his
Speaker 1: waist star project. Whatever that means.
Speaker 2: He's feeling confident.
Speaker 1: Uh, He's feeling very confident right now. He's got the
Speaker 1: president in his breast pocket. He's about to give the
Speaker 1: big speech, the big the big energy spot at the funeral.
Speaker 1: Uh and listen, he's ready. It certainly seems to kind
Speaker 1: of help. Can exit stage left? Should Roman ascend to
Speaker 1: the pinnacle job at wast Star Royco, Greg eager to
Speaker 1: leverage his role in crowning the new Preys is absolutely desperate. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: for an intro Tomkin, we catch up with the Lady
Speaker 1: Carroll in Collingwood, the mother, of course, of the siblings Ken,
Speaker 1: Roman and Shive. She honestly has never been happier than
Speaker 1: presiding front pew over the funeral of her ex husband.
Speaker 2: It's a best day of her life. Like I will
Speaker 2: just say, I believe you're about to get to this,
Speaker 2: but I believe this is arguably the power move of
Speaker 2: the episode. Oh yeah, yeah. When Caroline, who is a
Speaker 2: horrible person, I will say that we have to disclaim it.
Speaker 1: There's a lot human being as they all are in
Speaker 1: this moment because she wants to fuck with everyone.
Speaker 2: She reconnects all of the side pieces and the partners
Speaker 2: and the wives, Marsha, Kerry and her own Kerry, Sally
Speaker 2: Ann makes my Kerry and she said, sits them in
Speaker 2: the front row, and we actually get I mean, she
Speaker 2: freaks everyone from way star out. You know, everyone's like,
Speaker 2: what the fuck is Kerry doing in the front row.
Speaker 2: This gives her some kind of leverage. Kerry bought a
Speaker 2: lawyer because she thought they wouldn't let her in, and
Speaker 2: now she's in this front row.
Speaker 1: It's so funny and we.
Speaker 2: Actually get you know, I would say in any other
Speaker 2: place on market moves that this would be a sign
Speaker 2: of weakness, but I actually think we get a great
Speaker 2: new power cell that is born here. When Marsha puts
Speaker 2: her hand over Kerry's hand and kind of reassures her
Speaker 2: after making a great joke about she was like, well,
Speaker 2: at least Logan won't be fucking grinding his teeth tonight.
Speaker 2: None of us havefered to listen to that shit. I
Speaker 2: loved that. That was That was the power move of
Speaker 2: the episode for me. Caroline doing something maybe right, even
Speaker 2: for fucked up reasons. Just once.
Speaker 1: She shiv pulls Mattson aside and she has an idea
Speaker 1: pitch mancin On an American CEO, you know, like cultural,
Speaker 1: an executive that understands the American culture, that like that
Speaker 1: mancan can be a man who is has deep seated
Speaker 1: rage against immigrants, even white ones, even Swedish people. This
Speaker 1: is a move, even Swedish people. This is a move
Speaker 1: that he could potentially get behind. And so Lucas is like,
Speaker 1: it's interesting, it's interesting who should I choose and shive
Speaker 1: hems and haws or Hems once, and then Hawes once,
Speaker 1: and then eventually she's like me should be me, It
Speaker 1: should be Shivroy and he's like, well, you have your inexperience.
Speaker 1: You have no experience doing this right, And she's like yeah,
Speaker 1: but like you know, I have the political acumen, the contacts,
Speaker 1: all that stuff I'm great with. And then Matts is like, Okay, fine,
Speaker 1: let's assume that's the case. Aren't you with child? Aren't
Speaker 1: you pregnant? She's like yeah, but I'm not gonna Let's
Speaker 1: let's face facts. I'm gonna be a terrible mom. I
Speaker 1: Am not going to be plugged in. Uh. It will
Speaker 1: take a village to raise my child, because I will
Speaker 1: hire a village. I'll be on the you know, the
Speaker 1: text with you, on the zoom link with you while
Speaker 1: I'm having my vanity Cesarean. Don't worry about it. Everybody's
Speaker 1: gonna say that I'm a terrible mom. But here's the upside.
Speaker 1: Everyone's also going to say Shive's inexperience. She just had
Speaker 1: a kid. It's Lucas Max doing the strings. They're going
Speaker 1: to give you all the credit for everything.
Speaker 2: Dude, this is smart. That was extremely bleak, but it
Speaker 2: does appeal to mass insensibility. He's into it. He was like, Ah,
Speaker 2: you're a hot ass. He's like, you're gonna be misogynous
Speaker 2: against yourself and I love it. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: The funeral begins with some Vivaldi and the coffin walk
Speaker 1: with the family in tow, and then, much to almost
Speaker 1: everyone's chagrin, Uncle Ewen bolts I was that pulpit. Uncle Ewan,
Speaker 1: the neo socialist billionaire brother of Logan Roy who, while
Speaker 1: he often stridently criticizes his brother, is also happy to
Speaker 1: take his brother's money. He gets to the pulpit, Greg
Speaker 1: can't stop him, Shive can't stop him. He gets up
Speaker 1: there and he seizes for himself the brutust spot, the
Speaker 1: coveted brutust first speech spot at the funeral. He says,
Speaker 1: what sort of people? What's stop a brother speaking for
Speaker 1: the sake of a share price? Boom, and then he
Speaker 1: proceeds to tell to quite revealing actually anecdotes about Logan.
Speaker 1: The first is as children four and a half and
Speaker 1: five years old, taking their ocean passage from Europe to
Speaker 1: North America. I believe Canada at first is where they
Speaker 1: first landed. During World War two, and how because their
Speaker 1: boat lost power and was left behind by the convoy,
Speaker 1: they had to sit in silence lest their position be
Speaker 1: revealed to the U boats. And during this time, which
Speaker 1: you know, unfolded over numerous days, these two children just
Speaker 1: communicated with gestures and looks in each other's eyes. And
Speaker 1: Roman is listening to this, and he's quite emotional. It's
Speaker 1: clear that this is hitting him. Then, the second anecdote
Speaker 1: is about how Logan came home from boarding school and
Speaker 1: always believed that he brought home polio from boarding school,
Speaker 1: which then infected their baby sister, Rose, who you'll remember
Speaker 1: that Rose was used as a little bit of a
Speaker 1: landmine to set up Readrell at Logan's birthday party a
Speaker 1: couple of seasons back. Okay, this apparently, by the way,
Speaker 1: the thought that he had given his baby sister polio
Speaker 1: obviously tortured him, and his uncle and aunt that took
Speaker 1: care of him never really tried to talk about of
Speaker 1: the thought that he in fact caused his sister to die.
Speaker 1: He then closes with a denunciation of Logan's life and works.
Speaker 1: I think the important comment here is he has wrought
Speaker 1: the most terrible things. It's true, Ewan says, it's it's
Speaker 1: quite true. Your thoughts on the speech.
Speaker 2: I love this speech. I think Ewan came through strong.
Speaker 2: I was hoping he would be there. I feel like
Speaker 2: the real power line of any of the speech was
Speaker 2: who would stop a brother speaking for the sake of
Speaker 2: a share price? I think that's a really good one.
Speaker 2: I think he was, you know, tough but fair on Logan,
Speaker 2: and as we will see, he did a set up
Speaker 2: Kendall pretty well.
Speaker 1: Though.
Speaker 2: I do think the biggest impact this speech had was
Speaker 2: on Roman, because we knew that the kids knew that
Speaker 2: Logan was scared of water, and there's that like weird
Speaker 2: thing with Kendall being obsessed with water and water being
Speaker 2: this like huge thing in his life and his dad
Speaker 2: being terrified of it, and now we know why. I
Speaker 2: feel like there is a strange realization here from Roman
Speaker 2: about how his dad was a really fucked up, hurt
Speaker 2: person just like he is, and that's kind of why
Speaker 2: he treated him that way. I don't think he was
Speaker 2: like upset with you, and I think he believed everything
Speaker 2: you and said, the bad stuff the good stuff. And
Speaker 2: if you compare that to where he was at at
Speaker 2: the beginning when he's practiced like my dad was a
Speaker 2: great man, Like my dad was this great titan of
Speaker 2: business and industry. I feel like post you and speech
Speaker 2: and the kind of revelations about Logan's childhood and also
Speaker 2: the reality of Logan's impact. Roman can't get up on
Speaker 2: stage in front of five hundred people in front of
Speaker 2: a live stream question mark that seems to be going on.
Speaker 2: He doesn't.
Speaker 1: It doesn't.
Speaker 2: Like, it doesn't feel like he can get up there
Speaker 2: and pretend anymore. The pre grieving has run out.
Speaker 1: Well, you mentioned it. It's Roman's turner.
Speaker 3: Of course.
Speaker 1: Roman has been talking about how he pre grieved and
Speaker 1: he's fine, he's doing great, all that stuff, and then
Speaker 1: as soon as he gets up there with his pink
Speaker 1: cue cards, he just folds humiliatingly under the weight of everything.
Speaker 1: Connor Kennon Shiv have to escort him from the pulpit
Speaker 1: as Rome, hysterical and whimpering like the kennel dog that
Speaker 1: he is, wonders loud if Logan is in fact in
Speaker 1: the box and whether they can get him out he
Speaker 1: is I think, I think clearly by the way, calling
Speaker 1: back to that trauma of his own trauma of being
Speaker 1: trapped in that tunnel as his family had put him in.
Speaker 1: Now thinking about his dad that way, and it's a
Speaker 1: moment I think that we could use to humanize Roman,
Speaker 1: but I won't. I think if anything, Roman deserves this
Speaker 1: and much more. Ken then takes the wheel and he
Speaker 1: acknowledges that you and Hey, in Greg's words, has a
Speaker 1: strong take about Logan, but it was right. He was
Speaker 1: a brute, very tough guy. Then Ken transitions into a
Speaker 1: pretty strident defense of him, like as Logan is a
Speaker 1: man of action, he's a doer. He was full of life.
Speaker 1: I hope that you know that vim and vigor of
Speaker 1: life is in me, because otherwise this world will be
Speaker 1: you know, like peaceful and in harmony, with all the
Speaker 1: kind of like plurality of different races and creeds and everybody,
Speaker 1: you know, being able to coexist in at times fractuous civilization,
Speaker 1: but one that is essentially non violent and able to
Speaker 1: adhere to the tenets of a democracy, and that would
Speaker 1: be super boring, terrible. Blood in the streets capitalisire. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like that's we need money.
Speaker 2: It's gushing out of orifices, the blood of life.
Speaker 1: Shiv gets up and she starts with a small anecdote
Speaker 1: about how Dad yelled at the kids to be quiet,
Speaker 1: you know, when they were playing around outside of his study.
Speaker 1: And then she transitions to a really hard kind of
Speaker 1: like actually hard to follow and hard to parse, but
Speaker 1: also tearful goodbye, where she says, you know, goodbye to
Speaker 1: my world of a dad prompt number three. Power Ranking
Speaker 1: the speeches we got Ewan, we got Ken, we God Shiv,
Speaker 1: and we get Connor's long.
Speaker 2: Speech that we don't.
Speaker 4: I was.
Speaker 2: Praying with every fiber of my being that Connor would
Speaker 2: get up after Roman. There was a moment when he
Speaker 2: thought it was time his formalist, experimental speech.
Speaker 1: It's like James Joyce's ulysses like we're not.
Speaker 2: The time Jason, like, don't you know, like gonna see
Speaker 2: how it goes. That's one of the things Willa likes
Speaker 2: most about it, and she is a playwright. You know,
Speaker 2: I wish we had heard Connor's speech, but it's also
Speaker 2: perfectly act that he is the one who doesn't get
Speaker 2: to speak. Power rank. The funeral speech is Roman, You're
Speaker 2: at a bottom that's gonna end up decimating you. Sorry,
Speaker 2: we knew it was gonna happen. There's a sorry, there's
Speaker 2: a perfect moment that is coming up that everyone saw.
Speaker 2: If you've ever had to deal with the Jared Mankin,
Speaker 2: you're done, your political capital, your space in the industry.
Speaker 1: You have shown, you have shown.
Speaker 2: How dare you have an emotion as a as a
Speaker 2: male in this industry. You're in trouble.
Speaker 1: Don't shive next.
Speaker 2: I think you're right. She it was a very revealing speech,
Speaker 2: Like when she kind of kept calling Logan terrifying, I
Speaker 2: think that spoke to how the kids really feel about him.
Speaker 2: She tried to go for some of that Kendall like
Speaker 2: recognition of who her father really was. I think if
Speaker 2: she'd have just gotten up there and said the line
Speaker 2: goodbye to my world of a father, that could have
Speaker 2: been a very high ranking power speech, because that really
Speaker 2: did speak to like the immensity of Logan. But it's
Speaker 2: a bit too wooly. I think you're right. Hard to pass.
Speaker 2: It's hard for me coming out of this. Kendall is
Speaker 2: probably number one only because he wants to be. He
Speaker 2: will use this to average himself. He got an ovation,
Speaker 2: People were clapping for him. He seemed to balance the
Speaker 2: truth of what Youwan said and managed in that way.
Speaker 2: Kendall is number one because I think you and speech
Speaker 2: was more powerful and I love Youan and I love
Speaker 2: to see him out there just chatting mad shit on
Speaker 2: his brother. I was really hoping that was going to happen.
Speaker 2: But the reality is Kendall was able to use that
Speaker 2: speech that broke Roman to leverage himself into a position
Speaker 2: of this is my dad. I'm giving this like eulogy forever.
Speaker 2: That will be remembered and people will be like, oh,
Speaker 2: he was a really great orator. He did that off
Speaker 2: the dome, like he didn't even have notes, you know.
Speaker 2: So I think Kendall does end up number one, my
Speaker 2: head canon number one. Connor. I believe if he got
Speaker 2: up then he did twenty five minute speech, everyone would
Speaker 2: be like, oh my God, make him president, Like this
Speaker 2: is it. He changed the way we write speeches. He's
Speaker 2: got us job as a speech writer for Jared Menkin.
Speaker 2: The world would change, but we never saw it. So
Speaker 2: that's my ranking.
Speaker 1: I am gonna go Roman number one because I love
Speaker 1: the genre. I just love drama. You know, it wasn't
Speaker 1: also rely a speech per se, but it was. It's
Speaker 1: very dramatic. It was emotion to revel and it certainly
Speaker 1: is going to be very popular on the social media
Speaker 1: platforms coming up, and I think, you know, anytime I
Speaker 1: get to luxuriate in the heartbreak of another human being,
Speaker 1: I have to do it. That's one of my That's
Speaker 1: one of the things we really really enjoy here on
Speaker 1: Market Moves Number two, I'm gonna go with Connor ghost
Speaker 1: written by Willa, of course, the non foremost speech. I think,
Speaker 1: I think look for Willa to be somewhere up there,
Speaker 1: pretty high up in the communications department for President Mencoln.
Speaker 1: I think, listen, Mencoln likes to likes to say very
Speaker 1: strident and strong things about the country. But like, wouldn't
Speaker 1: it be cool if that was done in a really
Speaker 1: art tistic kind of like non linear way as well?
Speaker 1: Then I'm going to ken like a great Vanilla speech.
Speaker 1: It did what it needed to do. Followed by Shiv,
Speaker 1: who I'm going to put last because you know, where's
Speaker 1: the numbers, where's the facts? Where is the celebration of
Speaker 1: emotion on her dad's strength and vigor? Where were the
Speaker 1: metaphors about like what a what a virile man? He
Speaker 1: was too emotional? You know, ultimately the emotion gods who
Speaker 1: are also a democrat, So I'm putting her lasta Next,
Speaker 1: we go to the cemetery where Logan will lie in
Speaker 1: eternity in a mausoleum built by the CEO of bets.
Speaker 2: Five mil great deal, as Kendall says, a great deal
Speaker 2: for five mail.
Speaker 1: Ken learns that Mattson and Shiv are going to run
Speaker 1: the old American seats play with Lincoln, so he tells Hugo.
Speaker 1: He tells Hugo to to we need to prepare the
Speaker 1: ground for this. I need you to float a news
Speaker 1: item anonymously, of course, that the family, certain members of
Speaker 1: the family are against the Gojo deal because basically because
Speaker 1: the price is too low. And he tells Hugo flat out, listen,
Speaker 1: here's what it is. And I show you my dick.
Speaker 1: I want to kill the deal, and if you want
Speaker 1: to help me, you can. But here's the deal. You're
Speaker 1: not a collaborator. I don't even I don't ever want
Speaker 1: to know what you're thinking, what you're You're a fucking
Speaker 1: yes man. You're a dog. But quote scraps from the
Speaker 1: table will be millions, millions happy, to which Hugo replies,
Speaker 1: wolf word.
Speaker 2: Visius Stevens delivered.
Speaker 1: Glad that delivering and I'm glad that finally you know
Speaker 1: it's out there, that this is what the world is,
Speaker 1: This is how it is. Man a problem with it?
Speaker 1: This is how it is. Man, you had a problem
Speaker 1: with it. What if we pay you, you have a
Speaker 1: problem with it. What if we don't pay you? Either way,
Speaker 1: I'm still gonna have a book decide to pay you
Speaker 1: or not. He's still gonna have a problem, and it's
Speaker 1: your problem, not mine. At the reception, Ken corners Colin.
Speaker 1: You'll recall, of course, Colin, the one guard of Logan Roy,
Speaker 1: who was once also Ken's pursuer, because he knew that
Speaker 1: untidy little fact about Ken that he uh, you know,
Speaker 1: he killed.
Speaker 2: Him just accidentally. It was like it wasn't really his fault,
Speaker 2: you know, it was very real.
Speaker 1: He did kill a guy. That guy is no longer alive, right,
Speaker 1: he's dead now, and uh and Colin knows it. And
Speaker 1: Colin has been talking to a therapist because he's very,
Speaker 1: very stressed. He of course has this knowledge that Ken has,
Speaker 1: you know, taken a life, and his protector in Logan
Speaker 1: Roy is gone and he's probably out of a job.
Speaker 1: And Ken flexes by letting Colin know, Hey, I know
Speaker 1: you've been seeing a shrink. That's very alarming that you're
Speaker 1: that the son of your boss would know that you're
Speaker 1: seeing a therapist.
Speaker 2: Very threatening, but very very.
Speaker 1: Very threatening, and not a subtle threat at that. But
Speaker 1: Ken then comes, there's the stick, here's the carrot. Come
Speaker 1: work for me, Come talk to me. You want a
Speaker 1: shoulder to cry on, You want to put your feet
Speaker 1: up on a couch, Well you can do that metaphorically
Speaker 1: by driving me around and being my body. Ken then
Speaker 1: approaches Mencin about you know that Gojo deal. You're going
Speaker 1: to kill the Gojo deal, right because we declared that
Speaker 1: you're the president, And MENCN, very troublingly, is suddenly very
Speaker 1: very wishy washy about this deal to kill the Gojo deal.
Speaker 1: And he's also, by the way, clearly enjoying the fact
Speaker 1: that he as president has a relationship with the electorate
Speaker 1: aka at N's audience that maybe Ken doesn't quite have.
Speaker 1: Is oh, I thought you were the sound system. Now
Speaker 1: you want to choose the track? And he also and
Speaker 1: he says, you know about the deal, I've always said
Speaker 1: I'll help. But before they can really get down to
Speaker 1: brass tacks, Greg comes over, and then Connor comes over
Speaker 1: trying to pitching a what wait, what did he pitch
Speaker 1: a Habsburg equivalent for the EU, right, But it's the
Speaker 1: happy It's a happy Burg something or other, which is
Speaker 1: just like okay. And then mencan mocks Roman for crying
Speaker 1: over his father's corpse. And that is the moment where
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, that Jared feels like he has not
Speaker 1: beholden out to any promise he made to the roy
Speaker 1: family because they showed their belly. Roman showed his throat
Speaker 1: like a little puppy dog, laid down and then and
Speaker 1: then lifted his leg to show that little pink belly
Speaker 1: and his tail is thumping on the ground, and he's
Speaker 1: got maybe a little raw high bone in his mouth,
Speaker 1: and he's saying, President Jerry, will you bet my belly? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And Jared Mankin is disgusted by.
Speaker 2: H He's saying no, as he should. He's like, he
Speaker 2: calls him tiny tears. No. He is making all kinds
Speaker 2: of insults. And I have to say, this is a
Speaker 2: great moment for me because you've had this very interesting
Speaker 2: switch in Kendall, which I personally do think was probably
Speaker 2: Jess was the straw that broke the Caramel's back. But
Speaker 2: Kendall comes out of that funeral and he thinks he's
Speaker 2: a killer. He is the killer Logan always wanted him
Speaker 2: to be. He's threatening people, he's getting bodyguards to work
Speaker 2: for him. He's telling Hugo, you're my dog, like Roman
Speaker 2: was my dad's dog. And then he thinks he can
Speaker 2: do that to Jared Mankin thinks one he thought he
Speaker 2: could trust a Nazi stupid. Two he goes over and
Speaker 2: he thinks he's doing something really tough. And then all
Speaker 2: of his annoying male relatives come over and just make
Speaker 2: it look like it just looks like Kendall was trying
Speaker 2: to do what they were doing. Like he just looks
Speaker 2: just as ridiculous as Connor, he looks just as ridiculous
Speaker 2: as Roman, he looks just as ridiculous as Greg. He
Speaker 2: is nobody. And then we get that ultimate, you know,
Speaker 2: big fucking boss move from Shiv that's just so perfectly timed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to pull him away. But before that, let's get
Speaker 1: to prompt number four. You saw how MENCN, who is
Speaker 1: a born bully, treats someone who is weaker and less
Speaker 1: powerful than him, or has shown himself to be weaker
Speaker 1: by showing emotion. The kind of emotion that, like say,
Speaker 1: a son might show at the loss of a parent
Speaker 1: day at least is the problem? Number four, people who
Speaker 1: are weaker and less powerful than you. What gives why
Speaker 1: would they do that? What's their problem?
Speaker 2: How could they?
Speaker 1: What's their issue?
Speaker 2: You're telling me you're you're less powerful than a Nazi president.
Speaker 2: Oh so bad. Oh, it must be so hard for you.
Speaker 2: Your dad died and you're crying at his funeral. Give me,
Speaker 2: Come on, your dad was abusive to you, and now
Speaker 2: you're crying. He's gone. Over it, he's gone. It's been
Speaker 2: it's been seven days since he's gone it.
Speaker 1: Come on, go over it, Come on, stop it. Take
Speaker 1: your millions and and and take them up and tear
Speaker 1: them into little cleanex pieces and dab your eyes with
Speaker 1: them and get back to work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and me some money. What do you think this is? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What do you think this is a handout factory? You
Speaker 1: think this is handout? I think this is the You
Speaker 1: think this is like a soup factory. Finally, Shiv pulls,
Speaker 1: making a way to talk to lucas perfectly American CEO.
Speaker 1: You know, American CEO understands the values and it's Shiv
Speaker 1: and then Shiv make sure that she that mencan knows
Speaker 1: that Listen. Whatever my personal political views are, I don't
Speaker 1: give a fuck about him because a ten viewers love you.
Speaker 1: I have no morals. I told a sexual abuse victim
Speaker 1: to just shut up and take a money, Mariam, and
Speaker 1: I'm willing to do that on a massive every day,
Speaker 1: on a nationwide scale, every day. I know that atn's
Speaker 1: viewers love you, and let's face it, we need them,
Speaker 1: and so we're gonna give them as much making as
Speaker 1: they can take. What do you say? And Jared mancon
Speaker 1: seems to he seems to buy this, He's fine with it.
Speaker 1: I think he likes the fact that a Democrat would
Speaker 1: bow to him, yes, also a supposed liberally.
Speaker 2: I think he loves that. And I also think in
Speaker 2: that moment he respects Shiven mats and don't fuck around.
Speaker 2: They don't try. Ken was doing all this amorphous analogous
Speaker 2: like are you gonna help me? When I helped you,
Speaker 2: I butted your bread and now you want to give
Speaker 2: me the jelly Madison and Shiver like, we'll if you
Speaker 2: do a deal with us, we'll just support you for
Speaker 2: like years. But you have to let the deal go first,
Speaker 2: Shiver Madson. Now listen to this business listeners who care
Speaker 2: about business and doing important business deals. They want from
Speaker 2: Menkin something he can give them first. That was the
Speaker 2: big mistake Roman made. They gave Menkin what he wanted immediately.
Speaker 2: If they'd out without any they'd have held out, if
Speaker 2: they'd have even got a recorded a phone call where
Speaker 2: he agreed to it, so they could threaten him with
Speaker 2: prid quid pro quote, and yet they didn't. So Shive
Speaker 2: and Matson, if Menkin helps them push the deal through,
Speaker 2: they will have gotten that and then they can either
Speaker 2: welch or kind of navigate that deal as it comes.
Speaker 2: But Ship's made it clear she doesn't care. She'll support him.
Speaker 2: She'll be wearing a little ATM and you know pro
Speaker 2: Jared Mankin t shot. She's gonna be calling her baby
Speaker 2: Jared as long as she gets that CEO position she's in.
Speaker 2: She's all in.
Speaker 1: Outside in the streets, protests are growing. It's getting a
Speaker 1: bit Tiennemini out there. Tom says to Shive a reference
Speaker 1: to something that happened in history. I forget what it was. Then,
Speaker 1: quite belatedly, he apologizes Shive for not being there, you know,
Speaker 1: for the funeral and for winter dad died and all
Speaker 1: the stuff, and then he says, you know, by the way,
Speaker 1: I was the first person who got to kneel next
Speaker 1: to your dad's dead body and say goodbye, and that
Speaker 1: was a lot and he kind of breaks down a
Speaker 1: little bit, although you don't see the tears, and next thing,
Speaker 1: you know, the on again, off again, weirdo toxic relationship is.
Speaker 2: Especially when Lady Caroline comes over and congratulates them. That's right.
Speaker 1: Uh. Then Shiv gets Carl from Matten. It's a yes,
Speaker 1: he says. Now this brings us to prompt number five
Speaker 1: and potentially the biggest prompt of the show's history. It's
Speaker 1: a yes from Mencin. It's a yes from the board.
Speaker 1: What is the yes? Who is the yes?
Speaker 2: I think, using all my business acumen that I have
Speaker 2: gained over many years of being a rich business person,
Speaker 2: I believe it's Mencin. Because Ken is still very much
Speaker 2: trying to control the narrative of the board, and we
Speaker 2: know that Hiv has not approached Frank, Shiv has not
Speaker 2: approached Karl. Shiv has not been playing the Hugo game.
Speaker 2: The board aspect is what Ken is trying to play.
Speaker 2: I think Jered was very impressed with their little pitch.
Speaker 2: She likes the idea. He can see the way that
Speaker 2: the tide is turning aka Kendall and Roman of the
Speaker 2: Useless Brothers, which many of us knew, and she is
Speaker 2: now ready to make this deal with the devil. He
Speaker 2: gets a you know, a white woman to stand in
Speaker 2: this place. He can say it's an inclusive, open, democratic space.
Speaker 2: I mean, she worked, she worked for stunt double Bernie Sanders.
Speaker 1: She she can, she can have it all because she's
Speaker 1: a woman exactly.
Speaker 2: And I think that Matt's she's gonna lean in, She'll
Speaker 2: she'll call us out. It's gonna it's she's gonna hold
Speaker 2: us accountable.
Speaker 1: This is her fight song.
Speaker 2: And I think Jared's people very quickly called Matson and
Speaker 2: said absolutely, that's a better plan. And also, let's be real,
Speaker 2: I think that old you know, Alexander scarsguard Matson. I
Speaker 2: think he was right. I think Jared probably liked seeing
Speaker 2: a weird, six foot five Aryan guy saying I'll do
Speaker 2: whatever you want. There's multiple airs to this, but I
Speaker 2: believe it was I believe it was.
Speaker 1: Mancan I think that I think the pitch too about
Speaker 1: tech and social and the fact that Gojo understands that
Speaker 1: world in a way that you know, people who have
Speaker 1: been involved with cable news for the last several decades
Speaker 1: don't really understand it. That's that's a growth industry, you know,
Speaker 1: as matts And himself has said, cable news, you know
Speaker 1: atm that's for you know, sixty and seven year old
Speaker 1: angry retireing is like, this is not a growth business.
Speaker 1: And I think his pitch that hey, we know social,
Speaker 1: like that's a place for you to have international reach,
Speaker 1: not just not just reach within this country, but growing
Speaker 1: international and cultural reach. And I think that was a
Speaker 1: big deal. I think that really I think that turned
Speaker 1: his head. Yeah. So yeah, I think it is menk
Speaker 1: and who gave the s Ken and Rome ship of
Speaker 1: taking this call and glowing across the room. Uh. And
Speaker 1: Ken is like like, I think we're in trouble with Mencin.
Speaker 1: I think we need to fix this in Romans like, no,
Speaker 1: what Mencon would not stand me? Why why would he
Speaker 1: trust totray me? He's a trustworthy got Me and him
Speaker 1: we're tight. It was so tight. What are you talking about?
Speaker 1: And Ken is like that's I'm sorry, but I think
Speaker 1: that's happening. And then he says, and you want to
Speaker 1: know why it's happening, although he doesn't really make the
Speaker 1: connection that that concrete, but he basically says, you know, well,
Speaker 1: it's you know, you did fuck it up, you know,
Speaker 1: the funeral speech. You did lose your shit, You fucked it,
Speaker 1: you fucked it with Jared. And Roman knows it's true.
Speaker 1: It's true, he knows. And then Ken says, you know,
Speaker 1: we have to get real and fight Ship at the board.
Speaker 1: And of course Ken has a plan, and he needs Roman,
Speaker 1: much like Hugo, to.
Speaker 2: Be's li little dog and.
Speaker 1: The little dog carrier and to help him fetch papers
Speaker 1: and fetch his slippers and and lie quietly at the
Speaker 1: foot of his chair. Meanwhile, video of Roman's lack remost
Speaker 1: speech is already circulating the internets. Is as they say,
Speaker 1: you know, boosted by the Gojo algorithm. I'm sure, and
Speaker 1: it's not great. You know, Carl and Frank are watching it.
Speaker 1: Jerry's there, and you know, of course, Jerry and Frank
Speaker 1: because they are you know, more or less decent human beings,
Speaker 1: are like, oh, we shouldn't be watching this. Carlo is like, oh,
Speaker 1: but but it's out there. We got to watch it.
Speaker 1: We should we have to watch Roman in despair brought
Speaker 1: to his lowest point from his highest point. You know,
Speaker 1: earlier in the day he was about riding as high
Speaker 1: as as any Roy could possibly be. And now he's
Speaker 1: essentially finished it. He's he's, in his brother's words, absolutely
Speaker 1: fucked it. The video of him weeping is circulating the globe.
Speaker 1: Dick pics, uh, you know are soon to follow. I'm
Speaker 1: sure to be out there. And Roman in despair goes
Speaker 1: out to see the protests. He sees the protesters running
Speaker 1: down the street and he starts braiding them, and then
Speaker 1: he jumps over the the police fence that separates them
Speaker 1: from the crowd, and he starts braiding them again. And
Speaker 1: next thing you know, Roman is beaten and bloody on
Speaker 1: the pavement.
Speaker 2: Okay, final prompt. How long has it been since Roman
Speaker 2: got punched? Because I feel like he's someone who hasn't
Speaker 2: been punched enough, and I feel like this was like
Speaker 2: maybe the first time he took a punch that wasn't
Speaker 2: from his dad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not counting from any of his siblings. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say that what is Roman Roy probably like thirty seven
Speaker 1: or thirty eight I am gonna guess that he has
Speaker 1: not been slugged for twenty years. I agree, I agree. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's go down the Roy family. When's the last time
Speaker 1: that Ken has been punched?
Speaker 2: I think Ken has been punched in the last like
Speaker 2: two years at least, because remember, he's going out, he's
Speaker 2: like smoking crack, he's getting into Shenanigans, he's going to
Speaker 2: a bar, he's he's hanging out with people who probably
Speaker 2: get sick of his ship a lot quicker than the
Speaker 2: rest of them. So he's probably taken more more hits
Speaker 2: than I feel like Rome has been relatively condil aside
Speaker 2: from the Charlt abuse.
Speaker 1: I think that's right. And and of course Ken did
Speaker 1: take a pretty pretty hard hit when his forehead hit
Speaker 1: the steering wheel of the car that the young man
Speaker 1: that he killed, Yes, died in Conroy. When's the last
Speaker 1: time Connor now he may have he I think he
Speaker 1: might have secret Service protection now. So it's certainly I
Speaker 1: knew like Connorlander.
Speaker 2: Maybe I knew like Conna probably could talk his way
Speaker 2: out of many situations, not because he's particularly good at it,
Speaker 2: but because you would just get bored. You'd be like,
Speaker 2: please stop talking. I'm not even gonna get into this.
Speaker 2: He's also very tall, so I think Connor I think
Speaker 2: he might be running in along not punched. Also, we
Speaker 2: do get an interesting insight into the secret closeness that
Speaker 2: Connor had to Logan this episode. That hints to me
Speaker 2: he also probably never even got a slap from Logan
Speaker 2: because he was the only one who knew about the
Speaker 2: He was the only one who knew the Pets dot
Speaker 2: Com CEO Mausoleum existed. It's like the only real child.
Speaker 2: Because he wasn't seen as a business threat, Logan almost
Speaker 2: just let him in on the ridiculous shit that he
Speaker 2: was up to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that I think that was clearly the case where
Speaker 1: Logan was like, here's something that you can handle. Will
Speaker 1: you close this deal? From my mother?
Speaker 2: Also final grim power play by Logan because the Mausoleum
Speaker 2: did have space for the family.
Speaker 1: He was like, you going me, you know you can
Speaker 1: enjoy it. And then finally Shivroy.
Speaker 2: I hate to think about it, but I reckon she's
Speaker 2: almost as recent as Kendall. She her relationship with Tom
Speaker 2: is very bad. I I won't I won't allege that
Speaker 2: Tom is a wife beat up. I believe ship has
Speaker 2: gotten herself into some very bad relationships, and she also
Speaker 2: chats a lot of shit, and as we say in England,
Speaker 2: chatshit get banged. So I'm sure she's had problems. I
Speaker 2: believe it's a problem.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit of a trick question, because a
Speaker 1: couple of episodes ago, of course, Tom did flick her
Speaker 1: your lobes, saying that they were thick like barnacle.
Speaker 2: One of the best insult. Gonna count it one of
Speaker 2: the best insult.
Speaker 1: We're gonna count it, I agree. Up next, a special
Speaker 1: segment of Market Moves for a quick and punchy take
Speaker 1: on the state of our world and how much longer
Speaker 1: can hang on? Look no further than Crooked Media is
Speaker 1: What a Day Newsletter aka WAD n L. In just
Speaker 1: a few minutes, you'll be up to speed on the
Speaker 1: day's top news, as well as stories that may have
Speaker 1: gone under your radar. Subscribe to the Whataday Newsletter at
Speaker 1: Crooked dot com slash daily. I gotta have my WAD.
Speaker 1: Welcome to a bonus segment of Market Moves, your favorite
Speaker 1: source for all the information about money, stocks, bonds, trading, etc.
Speaker 1: So we've here at Market Moves. We have been the
Speaker 1: target of some spurious criticism.
Speaker 2: Fumatt.
Speaker 1: We are biased, we are right leaning, we are only
Speaker 1: slightly to the left of piracy, et cetera, et cetera,
Speaker 1: et cetera, and so to help balance things out, if
Speaker 1: that's even something we need to do, we would love to.
Speaker 1: Uh now have a big Market Moves Welcome for the
Speaker 1: hosts of the Offline podcast, liberal commentators Jon Favreau and
Speaker 1: Max Fisher, Welcome to the Welcome to the Market Moves program, gentlemen.
Speaker 5: Her big fan, big fan of Market Moves.
Speaker 1: Well, we're you're joining us on a on the perfect day.
Speaker 1: Ronda Santis has recently announced that he will be joining
Speaker 1: Elon Musk and together they will be announcing Ronald. I'm
Speaker 1: close with him, so I can call him Ronald, Ronald,
Speaker 1: Ronald's presidency, his his chase for the presidency, his presidential campaign,
Speaker 1: as it were. Gentlemen, Lucas Matson and Jared Mancin are
Speaker 1: Elon Musk and Rond de Santas.
Speaker 5: I can see that, I see.
Speaker 6: I think the question of who Jared Mancin is actually
Speaker 6: a really interesting one, and I think people looking for like, oh,
Speaker 6: is he Dissanti, is is he Howley? Is he Tom
Speaker 6: Cotton and like I always felt very clear to me
Speaker 6: who he is, which is he is the exact person
Speaker 6: that I've always heard every democracy watchdog like professional say
Speaker 6: they are most worried about. Which is a like Donald
Speaker 6: Trump demagogue plus s a far right YouTuber.
Speaker 7: Oh yeah yeah, like a smart Yeah, he's a smarter Donald.
Speaker 5: He seems smart.
Speaker 3: He's a smarter ruth.
Speaker 7: Nobody seems all that charismatic. Like it was that speech
Speaker 7: on election night where he was it's a little didn't
Speaker 7: it didn't move you? Hearing about the purity of the
Speaker 7: American American fascism is very like Donald Trump's true Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 7: Like I feel like.
Speaker 5: Jared Makin's brand.
Speaker 6: There is a little I have listened, unfortunately to a
Speaker 6: lot of far right YouTubers and a lot like his
Speaker 6: sighting of like Thomas Aquinas and Saint Augustine. That's like
Speaker 6: very like Mike Cernovich, like Robert Spencer and anyway, this
Speaker 6: is not us exactly bringing the pod to the life.
Speaker 2: Well, he he definitely does feel like somebody that Esquire
Speaker 2: would have interviewed in twenty sixteen and called like an
Speaker 2: interesting alt right figurehead.
Speaker 5: Right, He's a fire he's a fire.
Speaker 2: Brain he's dressed stylish for you guys.
Speaker 5: He throws a bomb throwers.
Speaker 1: The complex message of Jared Mancin.
Speaker 3: What was that line in the Times the cool Kids Philosopher?
Speaker 3: They say Shapiro. Yeah, yeah, I think there's a touch
Speaker 3: of Ben Shapiro in there.
Speaker 1: Max, How would how would Maggie Haperman cover making.
Speaker 3: No comment? Okay, but but it's.
Speaker 1: It seems like, you know, Macancon.
Speaker 6: Would be calling Maggie every seven would be just all
Speaker 6: You would not be able to walk past Maggie's cubicle
Speaker 6: without saying it should be on the phone.
Speaker 3: You'd be like, oh, it's mancan, isn't it?
Speaker 6: And he would just be off floating some like crazy
Speaker 6: in her gossip that she would then put into the newspaper.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's an interesting moment in this latest episode where
Speaker 1: Ken tells Rava that she's too online, too online, I
Speaker 1: guess because she cares about her kids, which I've always
Speaker 1: thought of as a weakness.
Speaker 2: Definitely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, your thoughts on Rava being too online or the
Speaker 1: criticism in general of being too online?
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's funny because I think too online is the
Speaker 7: type of criticism you level towards someone when they're it's
Speaker 7: meant to say that you're not really in touch with reality, right,
Speaker 7: that your reality is just the Twitter conversation, right. And
Speaker 7: what's funny about Kendall using it is he's so far
Speaker 7: removed from reality. I mean, the whole all of them
Speaker 7: are every season, right, and it's like this is that
Speaker 7: episode was the first time we've seen sort of the
Speaker 7: real world effects of the shit they've been pulling, right,
Speaker 7: happening all around them. So it is very funny that
Speaker 7: he accuses his ex wife of being two online.
Speaker 6: It Actually it reminded me of like late twenty sixteen
Speaker 6: when Trump was, you know, both nearing and then had
Speaker 6: won the election, where I feel like a lot of
Speaker 6: people were telling the I was too online because it'd
Speaker 6: be like, hey, when this happens in other countries, like
Speaker 6: here are the things that happens, and here's how it goes.
Speaker 6: And everybody's like, oh, you're being hysterical, and like, what
Speaker 6: was the line take take him.
Speaker 7: Literally and serious seriously? Yeah, Selena Ziito, thank you, Yeah,
Speaker 7: but there was. It also reminded me of the period
Speaker 7: between the election and the insurrection. How can we forget
Speaker 7: about that when everyone was like, oh, just humor Trump,
Speaker 7: He's gonna he's gonna do this for a little bit
Speaker 7: and then he's gonna golf.
Speaker 5: He's gonna leave. He's going to leave the White House.
Speaker 5: What are you all worried about? He's going to leave.
Speaker 6: It's amazing how many moments from the last five years
Speaker 6: you will see resonance in the show. And I have
Speaker 6: to say, I really think that this show has done
Speaker 6: better than any show, better than really any piece of
Speaker 6: entertainment art. Like the job it has done at capturing
Speaker 6: what it feels like to be America under this like era,
Speaker 6: when democracy feels like it's crumbling around us. It's like
Speaker 6: really incredible, And like I spent years at the times
Speaker 6: trying to convey basically exactly what this show is conveyed
Speaker 6: in like nine very crisp, entertaining hours, and it like
Speaker 6: really makes me kind of mad.
Speaker 3: They did a good job.
Speaker 6: They did an amazing they're like the way that they
Speaker 6: cover like institutions and how power broke. I was talking
Speaker 6: to a friend of mine who works in a field
Speaker 6: that it's euphemistically called election integrity, which means all of
Speaker 6: the people who were like, yeah, it's a little scary,
Speaker 6: the like poll watchers and all the like democracy watchdog
Speaker 6: groups and activist groups and people in state governments. And
Speaker 6: I was like, what do folks in your world think
Speaker 6: of successions treatment of things like election theft and disinformation
Speaker 6: or all the things that are coming up in the show.
Speaker 6: And she sent me the Leo pointing meme and she
Speaker 6: was like, everybody's just like they nailed it, Like we
Speaker 6: cannot believe how effectively they did, a lot of them
Speaker 6: have actually consulted on the show too.
Speaker 2: Would you say, speaking of reality, how realistic was the
Speaker 2: Roy's election party?
Speaker 7: You know, I will say on the elect they've done
Speaker 7: a very good job of making every political scenario quite
Speaker 7: realistic that party. I don't know that the Democratic nominee
Speaker 7: staff would be at the Fox News Eles party that
Speaker 7: seems at.
Speaker 5: I don't think. I don't think Nate would really would
Speaker 5: be there.
Speaker 6: I do One thing that the party captured well, I
Speaker 6: thought was the sense that all of this is happening
Speaker 6: in closed rooms with all of these people, this very
Speaker 6: small number of people who are all maneuvering with like
Speaker 6: very little mind for the consequences of what happens. And
Speaker 6: I think you're right that this last episode was the
Speaker 6: first time that the consequences were starting to impose themselves
Speaker 6: on the characters who have been have been causing this
Speaker 6: for the last four seasons.
Speaker 7: But it does capture something that happens a lot in DC,
Speaker 7: which is, you know, Republicans and Democrats who will be
Speaker 7: screaming at each other on TV or in the halls
Speaker 7: of Congress suddenly find themselves at a cocktail party together.
Speaker 7: They're just like, hey, yeah, we're friends, We're fine.
Speaker 3: We really missed that, Yeah, desperately miss that's right.
Speaker 7: I went back for the correspondence di inner weekend and
Speaker 7: left a day early.
Speaker 1: Yes, in the past two episodes, we've seen this attempt
Speaker 1: by the Roy's brilliant attempt I think to leverage, you know,
Speaker 1: the leverage Democracy leveraged the country in order to get
Speaker 1: this Gojo deal killed. How often does horse trading, you know,
Speaker 1: not of this brilliant magnitude where you're like, I'm going
Speaker 1: to sell out the country level in order to get
Speaker 1: control of my father's company. Like that's great, but how often,
Speaker 1: how how realistic did you find that kind of horse trading?
Speaker 7: I would say that before the Trump presidency, I would
Speaker 7: have said, I don't know.
Speaker 5: That it's that.
Speaker 7: Right, Like maybe it's a little more subtle, but with
Speaker 7: all the story, you know, Trump's like handing out pardons
Speaker 7: and Rudy's gonna like split the two million dollars with him,
Speaker 7: and like Jared's doing a deal with the Saudis. Like
Speaker 7: it's pretty it seems pretty realistic.
Speaker 3: It's getting Yeah, it's there to the deal man.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 7: And especially like the conversations between that we all saw
Speaker 7: after the Fox defamation suit between like Fox executives and
Speaker 7: like high ranking Republicans like that, that is pretty that
Speaker 7: is pretty real.
Speaker 6: So when you were in the Obama White House with
Speaker 6: the MSNBC executives, call you who were they calling to?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 7: Sure, and I would just put a bag of cash outside.
Speaker 3: My office with a big dollar sign.
Speaker 7: Yeah in the back, and then I would then, you know,
Speaker 7: then should air my whatever I want to go on
Speaker 7: whenever I want.
Speaker 5: It would be great.
Speaker 2: So talking about like important, you know, realities of the
Speaker 2: day to day, where do you stand on sending blood
Speaker 2: to your coworkers?
Speaker 6: Can I actually tell you, guys a story about getting
Speaker 6: recruited to crooked media is a few months ago and
Speaker 6: I got there was no bags of blood, but I
Speaker 6: got this call from John, who I knew a little bit,
Speaker 6: and I picked up the phonies to the John Favreau
Speaker 6: and he said, you know, Max, life isn't nice.
Speaker 3: It's contingent. People who say they love you also fuck me.
Speaker 6: So this is an explicit plan to fuck the pod
Speaker 6: me rule the world.
Speaker 3: And you can come, but it won't be a collaboration.
Speaker 6: You'll be my dog, but the scraps from the table
Speaker 6: will be millions, millions.
Speaker 5: And here he is.
Speaker 6: He was referring to downloads, not dollars. But I thought
Speaker 6: I'd a pretty good offer.
Speaker 5: He is.
Speaker 7: I will say that when we first started Cricket Media,
Speaker 7: we used a random lawyer in Silicon Valley to start
Speaker 7: doing some of our contracts with hosts for the first
Speaker 7: couple hosts, and you could tell that these were not
Speaker 7: standard entertainment contracts because I I think that we accidentally
Speaker 7: asked Ann Marie Cox to like sign over her the
Speaker 7: rights to her DNA. There was like some kind of
Speaker 7: a weird standard like like bio bio startup contract.
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is like this. She's like, I don't think
Speaker 5: I should this. We're like, you know what we actually
Speaker 5: do not want?
Speaker 1: That?
Speaker 6: Is that what all those cloning booths are for in
Speaker 6: the back room. I was runnering it was in these
Speaker 6: giant tubs of good.
Speaker 5: This is this is our version of living.
Speaker 1: Plus do you think that this show has anything?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: You mentioned that it really seems to nail the texture
Speaker 1: the feel of this particular political moment. I wonder if
Speaker 1: you could expound on that, What particularly are the things
Speaker 1: that you look at and go God, that feels like
Speaker 1: something that either has happened or would happen.
Speaker 7: I think that ever since, there is a feeling, especially
Speaker 7: among people among liberals, among people on the left, that
Speaker 7: fascists have to necessarily have like carefully laid plans and
Speaker 7: coherent ideologies, and that villains are like you know, two
Speaker 7: D and they're just they're always sitting there plotting about
Speaker 7: how they're going to take over the world and destroy
Speaker 7: everything right, And in reality, I think what Succession gets
Speaker 7: right is this is just a lot of rich, powerful,
Speaker 7: selfish people who are quite nihilistic. And when you are
Speaker 7: in positions of power with that much money and you
Speaker 7: make a bunch of selfish, stupid, reckless decisions, it has
Speaker 7: it can really fuck up the entire country and democracy.
Speaker 7: And you don't have to have a plan to do it,
Speaker 7: you just have to be as nihilistic as Roman has been,
Speaker 7: certainly over the last couple of days, but in reality
Speaker 7: all of them.
Speaker 6: I've been thinking a lot about how this show feels
Speaker 6: to me, like it's kind of in conversation with the
Speaker 6: like the paranoid thriller movies in the nineteen seventies, you guys, know,
Speaker 6: these movies like yeah, Parallax View and All Presidence Men
Speaker 6: and Conversation and this, like all the thrillers that came
Speaker 6: out after Watergate and Vietnam and kind of like captured
Speaker 6: this sense that the country had that you know, democracy
Speaker 6: was a lie and there were these vast, all powerful conspiracies,
Speaker 6: and we're in kind of.
Speaker 3: A similar moment.
Speaker 6: But Succession's final season feels very different, like you're saying,
Speaker 6: because there's no vast conspiracy, there's no big, shadowy plot,
Speaker 6: and there's also the like nineteen seventies thrillers usually have
Speaker 6: a protagonist who is like we're seeing, who's like fighting
Speaker 6: back to trying to like protect what's great about America.
Speaker 6: But this show is so nihilistic and bleak. There's not
Speaker 6: really good or bad. There's just these like bumbling idiots
Speaker 6: basically who were like in positions of power and crashing
Speaker 6: around on each other and like happened to be bringing
Speaker 6: around these terrifying consequences and it's like it's it messed
Speaker 6: up because there's so much darker than those seventies political thrillers,
Speaker 6: but their grasp of how things actually work is so
Speaker 6: much more like mechanistically fine grained and connect and the
Speaker 6: sense of like institutions, And the showrunner has worked on
Speaker 6: shows in the UK that focus on institutions and bureaucracies,
Speaker 6: and you like, really see he's got like a little
Speaker 6: bit of a political science list. And there was actually
Speaker 6: there was a line that Mattson had where he was
Speaker 6: on the phone. He was saying that you're not even
Speaker 6: a real democracy or less of a democracy than Botswana
Speaker 6: because you've been a democracy for fifty.
Speaker 5: To fifty years.
Speaker 6: Yea, yeah, And that is actually a like very specific
Speaker 6: argument that is really big in political science right now,
Speaker 6: that the US didn't formally become a democracy until about
Speaker 6: fifty years ago. And I feel like that must have
Speaker 6: been a deliberate nod.
Speaker 1: Well, well, so this argument, if you believe this argument,
Speaker 1: it goes simply because women and then people of color
Speaker 1: had a we'll call it a difficult time or a
Speaker 1: touchy time voting for much of the country's history, that
Speaker 1: somehow this wasn't a full fledged democracy.
Speaker 2: Is that?
Speaker 1: Is that what people are saying in the in the
Speaker 1: poly size You're.
Speaker 3: Not You're not liking this, are you?
Speaker 1: Are you Jared?
Speaker 2: You're You're just looking.
Speaker 6: For something, something clean in this polluted land, something not compromise.
Speaker 3: Is that right?
Speaker 7: And I also thought I thought they really got right,
Speaker 7: Like at the beginning of the Trump administration, there were
Speaker 7: a bunch of sort of establishment Republicans who went to
Speaker 7: go work for Trump and like slash former Democrats. You
Speaker 7: know what's his name, Gary Uh, the finance guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we're going to keep him on the rails.
Speaker 1: We're gonna be yeah yeah.
Speaker 7: The Committee, the Committee, the Committee to say of America,
Speaker 7: Remember the Committee to say America. The adults in the
Speaker 7: YEA and those people genuinely believed right that I am
Speaker 7: here because I'm going to have influence over him and
Speaker 7: I'm going to help stop Trump.
Speaker 5: And you can see that in like Shiv and Kendle.
Speaker 7: I remember at Kendall at one point was yell it
Speaker 7: was another episode yelling at his ex wife.
Speaker 5: He's like, you have no idea what I'm trying to
Speaker 5: do here on.
Speaker 7: And then Hiv, who is like terrified that Macan wins
Speaker 7: them in the very next episode, is like, I can
Speaker 7: impress the Nazi. I could watch and my dad. My
Speaker 7: dad died, so I could do anything right now.
Speaker 6: Something this show really captures that speaks to that, I
Speaker 6: think is this sense that not only is nobody coming
Speaker 6: to rescue, but there's no guardrails, there's no safety. And
Speaker 6: that was something that really came through, I thought in
Speaker 6: the Election Night episode where they're just like in the
Speaker 6: conference room deciding to steal the election, and like, I
Speaker 6: don't know about you, but I found that really triggering.
Speaker 7: Well, tend to Ndle doing a great impression of like
Speaker 7: most people on Wall Street, the markets will he'll be
Speaker 7: constrained by the markets and capitalism and the business interests.
Speaker 2: Okay, you know a lot of what we do here
Speaker 2: at Market Moves is about predicting things. You know, even
Speaker 2: the more liberal X ray Vision hosts they predict things.
Speaker 2: You know, for you guys, what do you think the
Speaker 2: viewers should be looking out for when we come to
Speaker 2: the finale? How do they land this realistic view of America.
Speaker 2: What happens.
Speaker 7: So I have been thinking that perhaps Kendall finally gets
Speaker 7: his crown, but he's basically, you know, ruling over the
Speaker 7: ashes and that the whole that it's not worth being
Speaker 7: the CEO of this company because you know, Mattson and
Speaker 7: everything that the kids have done just sort of destroy
Speaker 7: it somehow.
Speaker 5: So I've been thinking that's possible.
Speaker 7: Although I have to say i am a Market Moves fan,
Speaker 7: so I've been listening to previous episodes.
Speaker 5: After watching the last episode, I could see a Greg, I.
Speaker 2: See it.
Speaker 5: I could see Greg as the s CEO. I thought
Speaker 5: it was silly at first, and I'm like.
Speaker 6: That tight shot of Batson in the limousine there clearly
Speaker 6: there's someone who is next to them, and like, who
Speaker 6: else could it be? I mean, that was the only
Speaker 6: person I think it was missing at that point.
Speaker 5: That would be that would be so well. So I'm really.
Speaker 6: Curious what's gonna happened with the like way Star calling
Speaker 6: Wisconsin prematurely, which they have set up for like that
Speaker 6: might come back, and that of course like really parallels
Speaker 6: like Fox News doing Stop the Steal after twenty twenty
Speaker 6: and the show is like aligning with reality in these
Speaker 6: ways that are really interesting, but I think also make
Speaker 6: it like an even bigger challenge to land this ship,
Speaker 6: because like Fox News doing Stop the Steal we know
Speaker 6: now is like really blown up in their face. They
Speaker 6: had to pay an eight hundred million dollar fine. They'll
Speaker 6: probably pay more. They lost Tucker Carlson, they like really
Speaker 6: lost out, but if that happened to Waste Star, it
Speaker 6: would kind of ring false for the show's themes. So
Speaker 6: they're in kind of this tricky position. I think, like,
Speaker 6: I think we won't know what will happen with Menken.
Speaker 6: That's my big prediction, if.
Speaker 5: You're really coming about it.
Speaker 6: I don't think we're gonna know what's gonna happen with Wisconsin.
Speaker 6: I don't think we're gonna know if you're gonna be president.
Speaker 6: I don't think we know what's gonna happen with this
Speaker 6: social unrest, which I think is actually really fitting because
Speaker 6: that's kind of where we are as a country, Like
Speaker 6: we still like a take that I like just thing occasionally.
Speaker 6: It's it like January sixth is an ongoing event and
Speaker 6: we don't know how it is going to resolve, And
Speaker 6: I think that the show is like really landing that message.
Speaker 5: That'll help me sleep tonight. Good heart tape, it's a
Speaker 5: good heart take you gave.
Speaker 1: Here's it's something I'm legitimately interested in. So, you know,
Speaker 1: the Republicans have been the party of business since the
Speaker 1: late nineteenth century with this spread of banks and the
Speaker 1: spread of capitalism, and it was you know, I think
Speaker 1: you could argue Bill Clinton embracing capitalism, the creation of neoliberalism.
Speaker 1: After the collapse of the Soviet Union, people realize, oh
Speaker 1: this is let's get on board the train and say
Speaker 1: that we love it. That has it feels like we've
Speaker 1: parted with that. Certainly, the left electorate hates capitalism now
Speaker 1: and they're all they love Marx and they love Mao
Speaker 1: and it's ridiculous what's going on. But how do you
Speaker 1: how do you u how do you expect to win
Speaker 1: without aling with capital.
Speaker 5: I mean, I think this is this a question about
Speaker 5: the show.
Speaker 3: Well, it's a great question, but that's.
Speaker 7: Why I think that's why I think like manke in
Speaker 7: right is like so malleable when when when Shiv and
Speaker 7: Mattson are like he's playing maybe maybe don't block the deal?
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, right, right?
Speaker 5: And like fascists don't really care like capitalism or not.
Speaker 5: They just they want to just they want to.
Speaker 3: They want control, right, that's the whole disantas thing.
Speaker 6: Right, He's going after the big corporations because they think
Speaker 6: that's going to be useful foil for him. And now
Speaker 6: Disney is the hero of the resistance, which is a
Speaker 6: little bit of a weird position to be in.
Speaker 5: It's all, it's all in the service of power. So
Speaker 5: I think that's how they that's true.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that does actually align pretty well. Yeah, okay, So
Speaker 6: the answer to your question is nothing matters. It's all
Speaker 6: power and money.
Speaker 5: It's all money and gossip. Are you happy you had.
Speaker 3: A sound.
Speaker 1: I'm happy in the sense that you know, I understand
Speaker 1: now that there's nothing to fear from you. Guys. We've
Speaker 1: got it. The market move side is on the right
Speaker 1: side of history. Money Ascendant Jared mac In twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: We're going all the way. We love it. Thank you
Speaker 1: gentlemen for joining us, and good luck on good luck
Speaker 1: on your on your side of things.
Speaker 7: Yeah, thank you, thank you for having us. Good luck
Speaker 7: good luck out there on the streets.
Speaker 1: We fly only helicopters now, we don't private, private, we'll
Speaker 1: see yeah, thank you. Up next, yellow Jackets.
Speaker 2: We are stepping out of the airlocks and in to
Speaker 2: the still mysterious where is it we don't know wilderness
Speaker 2: of yellow Jackets, which we don't know, just some snowy place. Yellowjackets,
Speaker 2: Season two, Episode eight, with the Perfect Name It Chooses,
Speaker 2: Directed by Daisy von Schirler Mayer and written by Sarah L.
Speaker 2: Thompson and Liz Fang. We begin after Shawna's physical therapy
Speaker 2: session that ended last week's episode aka when she beat
Speaker 2: the shower of Lottie because you know, she was upset
Speaker 2: that her baby died. So understandable, but probably not a
Speaker 2: great idea. Beaten and bruised, Lotty is, she's pissing blood.
Speaker 2: She's being cared for by an ever useful Misty, but also,
Speaker 2: do you really want Misty to be the one caring
Speaker 2: for you? Lot of Marie, who is one of Lotty's
Speaker 2: number one followers, is kind of putting on a sassy
Speaker 2: front complaining a lot, but secretly she's absolutely devastated, but
Speaker 2: adding more fuel to our fire about the potential parallel timelines. Lotti,
Speaker 2: whose face is just absolutely decimated and she is she's struggling.
Speaker 2: She seems to be having visions from both the past
Speaker 2: and the future. She sees future Lotti. She sees future
Speaker 2: Lotti holding the Queen of Hearts cards. She sees these flashes,
Speaker 2: and just before those iconic credits begin to roll, we
Speaker 2: actually get one of the most brutal and grim reveals
Speaker 2: of this season, which is that Aquila's little mouse friend.
Speaker 2: One of the few bright spots of the show, her
Speaker 2: little bud been keeping her going. Tie leans over to
Speaker 2: Aquila and says, who are you talking to? She's like,
Speaker 2: go away, Rip to that mouse because the mouse is
Speaker 2: dead and maybe has always been dead because it's mummified.
Speaker 2: Rip to that mouse looking no mouse jerkie maybe, but no,
Speaker 2: not good and Aquila's pretty upset. That is one of
Speaker 2: the most shocking reveals yet in Yellowjackets. The cute mouse
Speaker 2: was always dead. Maybe. At Camp green Pine, adult Shawna
Speaker 2: is not having really much of a better time than
Speaker 2: teen Shawna as she tells the others that the police
Speaker 2: have found the dismembered body of Adam Martin. Guess somebody
Speaker 2: didn't listen to Misty's instructions, or else they wouldn't have
Speaker 2: been able d maybe then they wouldn't have been able
Speaker 2: to identify him. But you know whatever, Misty tyan Nat
Speaker 2: tried to convince, well.
Speaker 1: I mean they I will say, I will say they
Speaker 1: did a pretty thorough job as we see.
Speaker 2: That is a good point. And also they identified him
Speaker 2: through a means that they would not have been able
Speaker 2: to know about. So you make a good point. I defect.
Speaker 2: They did follow Misty's rules. They did a horrific job,
Speaker 2: as we will learn later. And Misty disgusting and Misty
Speaker 2: tyan Nat try to convince Shawna like, don't go back
Speaker 2: and see CALLI and Jeff. You need to stay here.
Speaker 2: We need to talk about this. You made us an
Speaker 2: accomplice in a murder. Remember that? And Van is like,
Speaker 2: fuck all of you, what's going on, throws Seanna's keys
Speaker 2: into the forest and says, we are not going anywhere
Speaker 2: until we have a little bit of a group therapy.
Speaker 2: So off to the sharing shack they go. Time to
Speaker 2: do some sharing, but before we get there, the camera
Speaker 2: is getting blurry in yellow jackets. Don't worry, not your eyes.
Speaker 2: It's just a cool cinematography effect to let you know
Speaker 2: everyone is starving. It's getting to that time now everybody's
Speaker 2: feeling wobbly. Tie is seeing nighttime Tie in the daytime,
Speaker 2: Van is sneaking around, looking suspicious and offering up belts
Speaker 2: to be stewed into soups because they are that hungry.
Speaker 1: It worked for Charlie or shoes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you know you're gonna eat a stew made
Speaker 2: of leather? Maybe you are. They're getting really hungry and
Speaker 2: they're in the wilderness. Can you see where this is going?
Speaker 2: I wonder cannibalism, remember it. Tensions are rising, and everybody's
Speaker 2: kind of already plotting on eating lot He's still warm
Speaker 2: and absolutely not dead yet body. Nat starts to wonder
Speaker 2: whether Lotty's death could be a good thing, which makes
Speaker 2: sense seeing as everyone is turning to Lotty's supernatural side,
Speaker 2: even Young Harvey, Young logical Harvey. He's even been praying
Speaker 2: to a specific symbol tree, which Natalie finds worrying. When
Speaker 2: she shares that with Coach Ben, her only logical friend
Speaker 2: left the newly awakened and no longer disassociating into history,
Speaker 2: Coach Ben takes a different lesson. This is not not
Speaker 2: something good for the group. I mean, like Lotty dying,
Speaker 2: who cares what was that about a tree? Have he's
Speaker 2: been visiting a strange tree and bowing to it? Could
Speaker 2: that be where he hid for all those months?
Speaker 1: And then I mean, it's just a a simple street line. Take, Hey,
Speaker 1: where's whe's tree? Maybe you could hide in?
Speaker 2: Maybe I could hide in a tree so you guys
Speaker 2: don't eat me. Maybe pretty good idea, Honestly I understand.
Speaker 2: And once again in epic coach ben timing, remember he
Speaker 2: avoided Jackie's cannibalistic feast. It's a good time because the
Speaker 2: girls are losing it. Marie is seeing blood seeping from
Speaker 2: the walls. Ty can hear the dripping. It's all going
Speaker 2: horribly wrong. And speaking of horrific visions, Yellow Jackets is
Speaker 2: a really great show. We love it for many reasons,
Speaker 2: but it is at its heart a horror show. I
Speaker 2: will say season two has kind of felt like it's
Speaker 2: veering away from that a little bit because of the
Speaker 2: supernatural elements, the survivalist elements. But we get such a
Speaker 2: horrible scene here after Jeff, poor lovely Jeff, he suffers
Speaker 2: from a a true night terror that is instigated by
Speaker 2: Kevin Tan and our worst enemy on the show, m Sarahcusa.
Speaker 2: The worst cop in the hole of yellow jackets. They
Speaker 2: show up and they're like, hey, this is like a
Speaker 2: really normal thing that cops do actually do, which is
Speaker 2: I'm just going to show you some horrible images of
Speaker 2: a decapitated and chopped up dead body. How'd you feel
Speaker 2: about that? Would you like to see it? This is
Speaker 2: where a very sharp knife cut through somebody's limbs. Enjoying
Speaker 2: that image looks delightful. Yeah, it is very horrible. And
Speaker 2: I will say, as we the audience know that Sewna
Speaker 2: did cut that body up, it adds a little bit
Speaker 2: more context to the choice that the women made when
Speaker 2: they decided they were going to get rid of the body.
Speaker 2: It is very grotesque. But you know what, these cops
Speaker 2: don't know Jeff is an accomplice. They could just be
Speaker 2: showing this to an innocent man. They know nothing. Jeff
Speaker 2: is understandably very upset, and later he is at home
Speaker 2: and Shauna arrives back from Camp Green Pine and he's
Speaker 2: so happy to see her. And as usual, it's Shawna.
Speaker 2: So she's incredibly horny and they're making out but done
Speaker 2: dune Dune. She has electric turkey carvers for hands.
Speaker 1: You know, she's horny because it's the worst possible exactly
Speaker 1: horny right now.
Speaker 2: Shauna, Please, he's like your own have found your lover's
Speaker 2: dead body. Don't be coming home and kissing me up,
Speaker 2: and then don't be chopping me with your turkey carver
Speaker 2: hands that you have apparently replaced your real hands with
Speaker 2: because your life is so boring that you need some
Speaker 2: excitement by adding turkey carvers to your stump arms. It
Speaker 2: was truly horrific, surprising no one. It was also a dream,
Speaker 2: but Jeff probably having some issues. I feel like at
Speaker 2: this point, accepting okay, do you think how likely do
Speaker 2: you think it is as we head into the final
Speaker 2: episode of this season that Jeff is going to turn
Speaker 2: on Shana and shot her to the cops to protect
Speaker 2: him and Cally.
Speaker 1: I don't think that he ever gets there unless something else,
Speaker 1: something else, like you know, a friend of a friend
Speaker 1: dropping a clue to the police. It's some extra pressure.
Speaker 1: I don't think he'll ever turn on her without something
Speaker 1: outside acting on their relationship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you. I think he's I think
Speaker 2: he's scared, but I don't think he's that scared. I
Speaker 2: think he does truly love Shawna a in a very
Speaker 2: all encompassing way that's quite defined by loyalty in lotty sharing,
Speaker 2: Shack talking about loyalty, the truth is coming out. Shawna
Speaker 2: reveals Jeff knows about the through killing Adam, and when
Speaker 2: thy classic tie here just saying tries to act like
Speaker 2: high and mighty. This is a lot This is like
Speaker 2: one of the funniest scenes because if you were doing
Speaker 2: like a speed recap, you wouldn't believe that all of
Speaker 2: this happens in like one secret. So Ty does a
Speaker 2: classic situation. She's high and mighty. Oh my god, Seana,
Speaker 2: how could you do that? How could you reveal our
Speaker 2: secrets to your loving husband? And Misty's like, h remember
Speaker 2: when you revealed all of our secrets to a PI
Speaker 2: called Jessica who came and offered us hundreds of thousands
Speaker 2: of dollars to write a book about being in Yellowjacket's
Speaker 2: just a test whether you could trust us or not.
Speaker 2: And everyone's understandably pissed, and van As the kind of outsider,
Speaker 2: makes a really good point. She says, well, how do
Speaker 2: you know this is a safe situation? And seawans like, yeah,
Speaker 2: what if she goes rogue? You know? And Misty says,
Speaker 2: don't worry, I murdered her. I took care of it.
Speaker 2: And the best thing is, like nobody's surprise.
Speaker 1: Nobody even blinks at this. Well, there's been so much
Speaker 1: crazy information already revealed in the sharing, in the scheering check,
Speaker 1: like in the two minutes before this, that like that
Speaker 1: Misty killed another person is definitely not a shit.
Speaker 2: And as Misty says, you know, you're welcome because guess what,
Speaker 2: I took care of it. Yes, as useful. And then
Speaker 2: Seanna's like, well, this is crazy because you're now you
Speaker 2: know that. Not only that, but the FBI has been
Speaker 2: going around to Randy asking questions about, you know, Natalie,
Speaker 2: and Natalie's like, well, I'm a Missy's like, Nana, don't worry.
Speaker 2: That was actually me and my boyfriend. We we were
Speaker 2: the ones. We pretended to be the FBI so we
Speaker 2: could find Natalie, you know, as you do. And then
Speaker 2: Misty's like, wait a minute. He was actually very upset
Speaker 2: and worried about something, and he mentioned your husband, Seanna,
Speaker 2: He mentioned Jeff, so what could that be about? And
Speaker 2: it finally comes out that Jeff and not Adam, was
Speaker 2: the blackmailer unbelievable reveals.
Speaker 1: And honestly a good reason for not telling them because
Speaker 1: she was afraid that, you know, that they might murder him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're like, how could you say that? And
Speaker 2: Van's like, Misty did literally murder someone she thought was
Speaker 2: the blackmailer. And then you know, it's quite the time
Speaker 2: in the Sharing Shack. I mean, who could know that
Speaker 2: so many truths were about to come out back in
Speaker 2: the nineties. You know, teen Misty is on Coach Ben's
Speaker 2: suicide watch, but she doesn't need to worry because he's
Speaker 2: not sharpening the machete to do any harm to himself,
Speaker 2: just to adapt his crutches for the snowy weather so
Speaker 2: he can make an escape into the wilderness, which obviously
Speaker 2: keeps secret from his stalk and Misty. While the group
Speaker 2: begins to hallucinate from hunger, nat is being quite kind
Speaker 2: as always, and she makes some gloves for Harvey, which
Speaker 2: leads to this sweet moment where Travis makes peace with
Speaker 2: her and says, I'm sorry forever making you think that
Speaker 2: you want to good person, like I really I take
Speaker 2: that back, and you are a good person and you'll
Speaker 2: definitely never do anything in this episode to make me
Speaker 2: feel like that will change because you are a good person.
Speaker 2: While Lottie wastes away with a fever in the attic,
Speaker 2: it's not looking good for her. She tells Misty that
Speaker 2: the girls have to eat her if she dies. She's like, look,
Speaker 2: if I die, don't waste it. I didn't die for nothing.
Speaker 1: Guys, can I ask an important question? Does she even
Speaker 1: need to say this? They're starving out, they would do it.
Speaker 1: They're like, they would do it in a heartbeat.
Speaker 2: Well, it's like trying. She's like, I'm just gonna assuage
Speaker 2: them of any guilt, Like they don't need to have
Speaker 2: a question. I'm telling him that's you know, some people
Speaker 2: want to be created, some people want to be buried.
Speaker 2: Some people want to be buried at sea. I want
Speaker 2: to be eaten by my friends in the wilderness. So
Speaker 2: she just lets him know, and that will go on
Speaker 2: to inspire a very fateful conversation within the group. But first,
Speaker 2: an interesting thing that we learn about Walter here. He
Speaker 2: is apparently a multi millionaire that wasn't a weird lie
Speaker 2: that it seemed like it probably was, and he lives
Speaker 2: in a very impressive, beautiful house with full floor to
Speaker 2: ceiling windows and what's he up to? He's just doing
Speaker 2: a puzzle drinking.
Speaker 1: Bailey's on the internet as one listening to.
Speaker 2: Not while I'm Around from Sweeney Todd, the lyrics of
Speaker 2: which say demons are prowling everywhere plays through his you
Speaker 2: know his bow's speakers. I assume some very bang and
Speaker 2: off some and expensive speaker system. And when he sees
Speaker 2: that Adam Martin's body has been found on his beloved
Speaker 2: Reddit true crime boards, he sends a message to the
Speaker 2: local police force saying he has information about the murder.
Speaker 2: So big question is he snitching on Misty or, as
Speaker 2: the lyrics play when he sends the email, no One's
Speaker 2: gonna hurt you while I'm around, is he planning to
Speaker 2: cover up for Misty? What do you think?
Speaker 1: I think it's some version of cover up that may
Speaker 1: include incriminating people around. But I think he is trying
Speaker 1: to throw the police in a different direction. And I
Speaker 1: think that he's then going to go to Misty and say, hey,
Speaker 1: look what I did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you. I think that is the case.
Speaker 2: I also think there's a very interesting duality with Walter
Speaker 2: where I still have this theory that potentially he could
Speaker 2: be connected to Crystal in some way, and maybe what
Speaker 2: he wants is to get the police off Misty's case
Speaker 2: so that he can kind of deal with her and
Speaker 2: get his vengeance. But I also just like the idea
Speaker 2: that they're just like two sociopaths who are going to
Speaker 2: fall in love. Hannibal is one of my all time
Speaker 2: favorite TV shows. I love murder, boyfriend's, murder, girlfriends, murder,
Speaker 2: any kind of gender partners, so I like the idea
Speaker 2: that him and Misty could just become like weird murder
Speaker 2: vigilante boyfriend and girlfriend. So I'm on your side. I
Speaker 2: do believe that he is trying to put them off
Speaker 2: her scent, and interestingly enough, as he leaves his house,
Speaker 2: he grabs a purple coat, So this offers another question.
Speaker 2: Is he already part of Loti's crew, Probably not, or
Speaker 2: is he headed to Camp green Pine and trying to
Speaker 2: blend in with those followers.
Speaker 1: I think that's exactly what he's gonna do. He's gonna
Speaker 1: go there, and he's going to He might believe that
Speaker 1: she is imprisoned there or whatever the case may be,
Speaker 1: but he's gonna sneak out.
Speaker 2: YEA believe that. So speaking of sweet people doing things
Speaker 2: to protect the ones they love. Jeff has had his
Speaker 2: terrible night terror. He's seen Shanna with scary meat cleaver
Speaker 2: hat I mean turkey carver hands, let's be specific about
Speaker 2: the weaponry. And he shares some home truths with Callie,
Speaker 2: who's up drinking a beer scandalous. You know she's only
Speaker 2: eighteen and she's in high school. Guys, she's drinking a beer,
Speaker 2: trying to get to go to sleep, and Jeff tells
Speaker 2: he's starting with adult car every time. And he shares
Speaker 2: Shawna's most terrible loss from the wilderness with his daughter
Speaker 2: that he knows about. We learn him maybe because he
Speaker 2: read the journals, or maybe because Shawna told him. He
Speaker 2: knows that Shawna lost a baby, and Cally is deeply
Speaker 2: moved by the reveal. It's clear that this is also
Speaker 2: very tied to why Jeff is so loyal. Is his
Speaker 2: loyalty waning? We kind of touched on this. He seems to,
Speaker 2: at least I feel like, be considering what Kevin was set.
Speaker 2: Kevin Tan you know, the cop who slept with Natalie,
Speaker 2: by the way, also seems problematic seeing as she's involved
Speaker 2: in this case. Him and m Sarahkhu's are really doing
Speaker 2: the most. When they came to the house with the
Speaker 2: search warrant didn't find anything, it seems, but you know,
Speaker 2: showed Jeff those scary images. He definitely seems to be
Speaker 2: considering the idea of, oh, I could protect Cally. He
Speaker 2: says to her, this isn't your burden to bear, but
Speaker 2: it's unclear. I don't think Cally would go along with that.
Speaker 2: She has turned for being like one of the most
Speaker 2: the worst characters in the season who was always doing crazy,
Speaker 2: annoying shit and ended up like she really has found
Speaker 2: this weird anti hero kind of space for her mom
Speaker 2: in her life. Speaking of which I'm gonna give you
Speaker 2: Jason a giant We were right because Shaana does a monologue.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, she does a literal monologue, admitting that she
Speaker 2: is just obsessed with blowing up her life and she
Speaker 2: just can't stop making things worse. She can't stop she
Speaker 2: wants the chaos. She even says she had the affair
Speaker 2: with Adam because she wanted to mix things up, and
Speaker 2: then ever since then she says, I've been trying to
Speaker 2: fix it, and then she's like, no, I haven't. I've
Speaker 2: actually just been trying to make things worse. Everything I
Speaker 2: do is making things worse. And I was very impressed
Speaker 2: because you called that shit from the very beginning of
Speaker 2: this season about that being like Shana's driving force is
Speaker 2: this kind of chaotic void that she just constantly wants
Speaker 2: to blow up her suburban life life.
Speaker 1: She gets off on the chaos. It's exciting to her.
Speaker 1: Something about just normal relationships, normal living is boring and
Speaker 1: isolating and and and entrapping to her. And she needs
Speaker 1: to break free. And the only way she can feel
Speaker 1: that she can do that is by doing crime by adultery,
Speaker 1: by committing murders.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then has not committed a murder when we're
Speaker 2: just feeling a bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, who among this is not decapitated? And uh, the
Speaker 1: the corpse of the person you were having an affair
Speaker 1: with so they cannot be identified. Then cut off the
Speaker 1: hands and then cheese greater.
Speaker 2: It's just what it's very reliable to cheese gray as
Speaker 2: someone's tattoos off. You don't want that to be that
Speaker 2: that's a signifying mom Come on, Sean is honesty and
Speaker 2: buyers Natalie to encourage the others to open up, which,
Speaker 2: by the way, I still think Natalie is playing some
Speaker 2: kind of long game here. I'm just not sure what
Speaker 2: it is at this point, but sad times to see
Speaker 2: it because she has really been struggling this season. Lottie
Speaker 2: takes the reins goes against what Natalie was saying, which
Speaker 2: is very interesting because she's kind of been preaching this
Speaker 2: idea of therapy and talking their problems out, and she's like, no,
Speaker 2: none of that's gonna help. Talking won't help. We are
Speaker 2: here for a reason, and the reason is the power
Speaker 2: of the wilderness, and I know what it wants. Cut
Speaker 2: to the wilderness in the nineties, where we're about to
Speaker 2: learn what Lotti thinks it wants. Lotti has offered her
Speaker 2: body up for the good of the group the survivors.
Speaker 2: In a very interesting and telling conversation, they decide they
Speaker 2: don't want Lottie to die, and as Travis points out,
Speaker 2: the only way she can survive is if she eats something.
Speaker 1: I like that.
Speaker 2: At this point, no one's even trying to find an animal,
Speaker 2: like maybe we should go and do like one scope.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe there's some kind of like wintery animal who survived.
Speaker 2: Maybe we could climb a tree, do you know, go
Speaker 2: ice fish ice fishing in the lake. Like, yeah, there
Speaker 2: seems like there's many different options, but as Tye says,
Speaker 2: we have to find a way to save Lotty and
Speaker 2: to save ourselves. We need to eat and we're gonna
Speaker 2: have to do whatever we can to survive. So if
Speaker 2: you remember, the girls have been assigning chores via pulling
Speaker 2: cards from a deck. This is also very interestingly throughout
Speaker 2: the season clearly been something they were rigging, because they
Speaker 2: would always make sure that Crystal and Misty had to
Speaker 2: go on toilet Judy as punishment for Misty, you know,
Speaker 2: poisoning people who amongst us has again not poisoned some people,
Speaker 2: you know, So it doesn't seem like a great trustworthy option,
Speaker 2: but in an interesting narrative choice. I think in the
Speaker 2: discord Our Discord, there's been a conversation about it, and
Speaker 2: I think on the Internet there's been a lot of
Speaker 2: controversy about it. They don't really show them making this choice,
Speaker 2: which I think is very interesting. So it more just
Speaker 2: kind of you are left to add the narrative of
Speaker 2: how they got there. But it's something we've seen them
Speaker 2: do before, and we get a really good kind of
Speaker 2: riff on this, you know, in the thing when they're
Speaker 2: trying to work out who's infected and who's not, and
Speaker 2: we get this very tense sequence who's going to get killed?
Speaker 2: How do you deal with that? It's so good and
Speaker 2: so atmospheric, and people pull a card and Misty is
Speaker 2: safe and Travis is safe and Shanna is safe. And honestly, Shanna,
Speaker 2: you probably should have been the sacrifice. You cause mad
Speaker 2: problems and it should have been you, baby. But sadly,
Speaker 2: for people with taste, it is Natalie who pulls the
Speaker 2: Queen of Heart cards. You hate to see it. I
Speaker 2: love Natalie. That is why I have my funny shag mullet.
Speaker 2: She inspired me to do it. I love her, and
Speaker 2: Natalie is the sacrifice. But we know Natalie still exists
Speaker 2: in the future as we know it, so this seems
Speaker 2: like an odd choice. Seanna, of course, is the executor.
Speaker 2: Loves to kill someone, just can't help it, just absolutely
Speaker 2: adores it. And in a very sick move, she places
Speaker 2: Jackie's necklace around Natalie's throat, which is a little heart necklace.
Speaker 2: It's very gross. We get this duality here, there's this
Speaker 2: two sides. If you are the sacrifice, you pull the
Speaker 2: Queen of Heart's card, you put on this necklace and
Speaker 2: that kind of designates you as being the sacrifice. We
Speaker 2: can assume this is a version of what we saw
Speaker 2: in the very first episode of Yellowjackets that got everyone
Speaker 2: so hooked of the girls running after a sacrifice. We
Speaker 2: can assume they pulled the card and they were wearing
Speaker 2: the necklace and they had to make that choice now
Speaker 2: because Natalie is a bad one. She's not taking it
Speaker 2: at all. Sewn has too much of a coward to
Speaker 2: look her in the eyes, and Natalie's like, no, look
Speaker 2: me in the eyes.
Speaker 1: Do it.
Speaker 2: You're gonna have to look at me while you slip
Speaker 2: my throat. Give it a try, and Seana can't do it.
Speaker 2: Travis in a choice that he will inevitably come to
Speaker 2: regret and I'm sure will haun him for the rest
Speaker 2: of his life. Just horrible shit that they do in
Speaker 2: this This this final like fifteen minutes, is so fucking bleak.
Speaker 2: Travis causes the commotion, pushes them out of the way,
Speaker 2: and lets Nap run and this leads to one of
Speaker 2: those sequences we've had teased throughout the season and flashes.
Speaker 2: It's in the credit sequence. It got a lot of
Speaker 2: people talking. The survivors are chasing Natalie through the forest
Speaker 2: before we just saw them, you know, ties screaming and
Speaker 2: they turn feral like. This is a turn of events
Speaker 2: that I.
Speaker 1: Truly I don't know any like it's like a zombie
Speaker 1: and I.
Speaker 2: Feel like that's what they were trying to establish with
Speaker 2: this blurry camera angles. They wanted to show us how
Speaker 2: far gone they were because they do not question it.
Speaker 2: They do not for a second have any issue with
Speaker 2: trying to eat Natalie. It's happening. It's gonna happen, and
Speaker 2: she is gonna be dinner. Before we see what happens
Speaker 2: to Natalie and how she survived, which is gonna break
Speaker 2: your heart. We will have to wait and see because
Speaker 2: in a very interesting and what I think will be
Speaker 2: very important narratively turn of events. We cut to Camp
Speaker 2: Green Pine, where Shauna immediately tells Lotti none of that
Speaker 2: was real. I am so interested, like this is she
Speaker 2: just continuing the direct conversation where Lotti was talking about
Speaker 2: power of awardness? Is she talking about that entire vision
Speaker 2: that we just saw. There is a definite, unreliable narrator
Speaker 2: situation here that I think is incredibly interesting and more
Speaker 2: likely lead into the next season. But we'll have to
Speaker 2: wait to see how true or not true it is.
Speaker 2: Because bad things are happening.
Speaker 1: This.
Speaker 2: Lotti has gone full of Heaven's Gate, as Misty points out,
Speaker 2: and she wants the women to drink from cups, one
Speaker 2: of which has been poisoned with phoenobarbital, and that person's
Speaker 2: gonna die when they drink it. Would you drink it?
Speaker 2: What do you think, Jason? Would you drink from one
Speaker 2: of these cups? You're not drinking, thank you. I'm also
Speaker 2: not drinking drinking.
Speaker 1: And by the way, Lotti, Lotti, why is your every
Speaker 1: idea well one of us should die?
Speaker 2: Now I'm saying, do I need a.
Speaker 1: Better solution to stay?
Speaker 2: I think this is a big logical flaw in Lotti's part.
Speaker 2: So Lotti's argument is, look, in the wilderness, we would
Speaker 2: sacrifice somebody and then we would all survive because we
Speaker 2: ate them. But also the wilderness would be happy if
Speaker 2: we do that now, then time. Maybe your wife won't
Speaker 2: die in a coma, Shanna. Maybe you won't get arrested
Speaker 2: for this murder like the wilderness can hook us up. Natalie,
Speaker 2: Maybe you won't be such a loser and a drug
Speaker 2: addicts anymore fucked up Lotty. I don't know why. It's
Speaker 2: like not really comparable to like everything else everyone's doing.
Speaker 2: But sure, mistery, you are a murderer. Maybe you'll stop murdering.
Speaker 2: Maybe not. I'm gonna say something if that's the case. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Travis already died. Why didn't that fix their problems? The
Speaker 2: wilderness chose Travis? Where's the logic of that adult Travis died?
Speaker 2: He was murdered in what looked like a hallucinatory kind
Speaker 2: of strange supernatural one of the main supernatural glimpses that
Speaker 2: we've got. I feel like Lotti is struggling. We also
Speaker 2: now know that her therapist never existed, so she was
Speaker 2: never getting the medication that she needed for like the
Speaker 2: last few weeks. This is a very sad turn of events.
Speaker 2: Absolutely hate to see it. But also this is like
Speaker 2: the most fucked up group of friends ever because, by
Speaker 2: the end of Lotti explaining it, like none of none
Speaker 2: of them are like this sounds really bad. Like everyone's
Speaker 2: just like yeah, everybody's like, okay, maybe maybe we should
Speaker 2: just drink the poison call it. I mean, come on, guys,
Speaker 2: this is cult leader one oh one.
Speaker 1: I am surprised, honestly that no one has said, hey,
Speaker 1: what about the other people that died? Like aren't we good?
Speaker 2: Right? How many times do you have to do it?
Speaker 2: Like what is the cost? And like Travis died.
Speaker 1: Like recently paid to me?
Speaker 2: Yeah, very recently, you know, like it's and also if
Speaker 2: that was the case, Lotty, why didn't you let Nat
Speaker 2: kill herself? Like there's all these different the logic is
Speaker 2: not there. So I believe that we can see that
Speaker 2: this is something I think that is more of a
Speaker 2: struggle in Lotty's head right now than a reality. But
Speaker 2: you know, someone is faring a little bit better in
Speaker 2: the worldness. It's coach Ben. He's feeling good. Guess what
Speaker 2: he found Harvey's magical symboltry lo and behold big we
Speaker 2: were right. I'm calling out by name because this is
Speaker 2: the first person who I saw posit this theory. My
Speaker 2: name is Dan, who is one of our discord users.
Speaker 2: He had posited the theory that there was an underground
Speaker 2: tunnel system and that symbols on the trees basically marked
Speaker 2: where you could find the tunnels and the entrances to
Speaker 2: the tunnels. And I would say, this is a oh,
Speaker 2: we were right that there is at least one tunnel,
Speaker 2: and I think is probably positing going towards like a
Speaker 2: proper we were right. Next episode, so there is a cave.
Speaker 2: Ben finds it and it leads to some kind of
Speaker 2: tunnel system. And not only that, but someone's been living
Speaker 2: there eating small animals. How did they find those animals?
Speaker 2: Maybe these people should be eating them instead of eating humans.
Speaker 2: Just an idea, but basically that animal bones are there.
Speaker 2: This is probably where Harvey survived his time in the wilderness.
Speaker 2: Maybe let's just strow it out there because yellowjackers. Look,
Speaker 2: maybe the bones are there for witchcraft. Maybe a witch
Speaker 2: lives there.
Speaker 1: It kind of seems to me like there's chickens in
Speaker 1: them that are wood.
Speaker 2: I'm saying that looks like.
Speaker 1: Where's the food. There's food.
Speaker 2: Maybe there's food in the tunnels. Maybe there's a little
Speaker 2: underground farm. Maybe there's some chickens be living down there,
Speaker 2: you know, like.
Speaker 1: Underground farm is very interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I have seen some other really cool theories.
Speaker 2: I think in our discord, this one's popped up a lot.
Speaker 2: The idea that perhaps the person who has been living
Speaker 2: in there and is nighttime Tie who maybe was the
Speaker 2: one who was protecting Harvey and was his friend and
Speaker 2: you know, claimed that she didn't want him to go back, which,
Speaker 2: let's be real, we find out now very right how
Speaker 2: they should not have gone back. Yes, bad times all around,
Speaker 2: because Harvey catches up with Nat on the frozen river
Speaker 2: and he tells her I'm gonna take you to my
Speaker 2: secret hiding place to help you survive this insane hunting party.
Speaker 2: But as it is, wont to do, the wilderness chooses
Speaker 2: and the night the ice breaks and Harvey falls in.
Speaker 2: At first, because Natalie is a nice human being, I
Speaker 2: do truly believe that she tries to save him, but
Speaker 2: as the other girls catch up, Misty kneels down and
Speaker 2: whispers to her, if you save Harvey, they will eat you.
Speaker 2: Another life saved by Misty kind of like not really,
Speaker 2: but kind of because if she didn't, like Nat would
Speaker 2: be dead. But sadly, Harvey still dies, and it's really
Speaker 2: grim because we have to watch him drown and Nat
Speaker 2: has to watch him drown, and we definitely understand. I
Speaker 2: feel like that is the choice that Natalie made in
Speaker 2: her life. She often talks about she didn't deserve to survive.
Speaker 2: They she did think she was ashamed of she wished
Speaker 2: that she could go back, and that I think is
Speaker 2: that that's that moment where she lets somebody die so
Speaker 2: that she could survive. And it's in a really horrific way.
Speaker 1: I am back all the way around to this show
Speaker 1: could now be completely not I think so too. I
Speaker 1: think there could. I think there could. I think the
Speaker 1: results of trauma, starvation, intense emotional tenor could have. First
Speaker 1: of all, it did absolutely result in numerous, like parallel
Speaker 1: hallucinations that did and did not intersect with other hallucinations
Speaker 1: that were going on. And I think that there is
Speaker 1: a real chance that all the stuff they think happened
Speaker 1: only happened pieces didn't happen all the way. No one
Speaker 1: has the full.
Speaker 2: Piece that would be explained by Seanna saying it wasn't
Speaker 2: real because she doesn't remember it that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she doesn't remember it. And in order for
Speaker 1: them to make sense of it all, they have come
Speaker 1: up with this framing the wilderness.
Speaker 2: Exactly and we and that's how the episode ends. They
Speaker 2: don't want to deal with the fact that they let
Speaker 2: Hobby die after they don't you just go on and back,
Speaker 2: so Van Declare's you know, the wilderness chose and that's it.
Speaker 2: Harvey will be the next meal. Of course, how Travis
Speaker 2: will feel about that is a whole different situation, but
Speaker 2: we know that him and Natalie stayed in contact as adults,
Speaker 2: so I'm sure there's probably a story there, just another
Speaker 2: absolute bummer fucking ending the last three episodes of Really,
Speaker 2: They'll just fucking destroy you.
Speaker 1: So tell me why you think it's possible that this
Speaker 1: show could be not supernatural.
Speaker 2: I think that the closer we get, I think there
Speaker 2: are multiple different things that could in that situation seem supernatural,
Speaker 2: like Lotti's visions, which we know are likely part of
Speaker 2: her having mental health struggles. Those began this kind of
Speaker 2: journey of the group into believing, well, i'd say more
Speaker 2: of a spiral actually, that there was something super natural
Speaker 2: going on, Tie sleepwalking, something else that can absolutely be
Speaker 2: explained away in a non supernatural sense, but in that
Speaker 2: space of being in the wilderness, being disconnected from reality,
Speaker 2: not eating, it takes on this whole other meaning. You know,
Speaker 2: there are multiple coincidences than and Tie being out and
Speaker 2: finding Harvey. That doesn't have to be supernatural. It's just
Speaker 2: that there's not a very big space, and he was
Speaker 2: coming out of the tree, you know, things Like we've
Speaker 2: talked about this before, it's very likely that Lotti or
Speaker 2: Tie in a sleepwalking mode, was the one who put
Speaker 2: the symbols around and instead it's about building a narrative
Speaker 2: that fits to explain away the things that they had
Speaker 2: to do. We did say in the episode where they
Speaker 2: ate Jackie, the first cannibalism episode, I felt like the
Speaker 2: photography was so intentional. It was so supposed to bring
Speaker 2: us into this mindset that the wilderness baked Jackie properly.
Speaker 2: It presented her fully cooked, but we don't I don't
Speaker 2: know if that's really what happened. I really wouldn't be
Speaker 2: surprised if we saw a different version where Van and
Speaker 2: Tye went out there and they packed the snow and
Speaker 2: they cooked her.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I think that there's very interesting, unreliable narrator kind of
Speaker 2: situations occurring, and I think that Lottie fully committing to
Speaker 2: this kind of cult leader aspect of herself, which she
Speaker 2: has not done, like this intentional community. We've made a
Speaker 2: lot of jokes about how it's a cult, and but
Speaker 2: it seems like she has been pushing away from that
Speaker 2: and trying to do something positive for people, And the
Speaker 2: fact that she now is saying, hey, let's just one
Speaker 2: of us just kill ourselves. I think that is a
Speaker 2: that's a psychotic break that she is suffering from more
Speaker 2: than I think, especially, like I said, the illogical nature
Speaker 2: of well, why isn't Travis the good enough sacrifice? Didn't
Speaker 2: didn't the Wilderness choose Adam when Shauna killed him? Like,
Speaker 2: it's not adding up. And it's really funny because last
Speaker 2: episode I was like, it's a fairy show, like I'm
Speaker 2: into it, like it's fairies. But now I'm yeah, I
Speaker 2: was like, I'm into it, it's fairies, it's supernatural. Somebody
Speaker 2: pointed out True Blood was about fairies, Like why not?
Speaker 2: But now I'm actually thinking, especially, imagine how horrific it
Speaker 2: will be if Coach Ben doesn't do what we expect
Speaker 2: and he doesn't just hide down there himself. Imagine how
Speaker 2: terrible it will be if he leads them down there
Speaker 2: after they've killed Harvey and they find food, or they
Speaker 2: find animals, or they find whoever lived in the cabin before.
Speaker 2: Maybe they'd made that into some kind of stock storage space,
Speaker 2: you know, as people were doing caverns and caves. Maybe
Speaker 2: there's dried meats down there and they have to come
Speaker 2: to the realization that this is a choice they made.
Speaker 2: I think that could really be a harrowing way to
Speaker 2: end the season, and harrowing has been one of the
Speaker 2: big watchwords for this season, so I think the non
Speaker 2: supernatural element is and also very clever way to potentially
Speaker 2: end the season, even if you know they've I think
Speaker 2: they've said this is a five season plan is what
Speaker 2: they have for it, and who knows when more see
Speaker 2: season because they're on strike. But it's very interesting to
Speaker 2: kind of end in quite a final this isn't supernatural
Speaker 2: way potentially, and then also then you have season three
Speaker 2: to blow that up or to go along with it
Speaker 2: or whatever else. I think it would be very interesting
Speaker 2: to have a show that is just really ingrained in
Speaker 2: this idea of how trauma can affect us. But we'll
Speaker 2: have to see next week because next week is Succession
Speaker 2: finale and Yellow Jackets finale, and for those who are watching,
Speaker 2: though we haven't been able to cover it, the Barry finale,
Speaker 2: so they're really they're coming in strong.
Speaker 1: Quite strong, and quite It's it's a bummer, it's like
Speaker 1: a bummer pull.
Speaker 2: We are getting intense every day. Sunday is like the
Speaker 2: most fun. It's meant to be very razing, but we
Speaker 2: are getting fucking the most intense programming in a long time.
Speaker 1: Well up next, no doubt.
Speaker 2: Yeah. In today's ned out way, you tell us what
Speaker 2: you love them? Why oh a theory you're excited to share.
Speaker 2: Maya Pictures us on Gamma del Toro's mech masterpiece, Pacific Grim.
Speaker 2: I do believe it's a masterpiece. I absolutely love this movie.
Speaker 2: I also love the sequel starring John Boyega. Hi Jason,
Speaker 2: Hi ROSI. My name is Maya.
Speaker 4: I'm a longtime xtraory Vision listener. I could listen to
Speaker 4: you guys talk about anything you want all the time,
Speaker 4: even for like things that I've not really tuned in for.
Speaker 4: I'm always there you guys, bright onw my.
Speaker 2: Week all the time.
Speaker 4: So for minord out, I want to talk about twenty
Speaker 4: thirteen's Pacific Rim from Germo del Toro. Did not realize
Speaker 4: we were coming up on the tenth anniversary of it,
Speaker 4: but it hit made a formative time in my life.
Speaker 4: I was working at a movie theater in between semesters
Speaker 4: for the summer we're all excited about this movie about
Speaker 4: giant robots and giant kaiju. First of all, I love
Speaker 4: monster making so like the concept and the visuals of
Speaker 4: the monsters are ridiculously I love them, the big crop one,
Speaker 4: the Hammerhead one, even the little baby one. Still what
Speaker 4: plushes of all of them. I think that Also the
Speaker 4: reason I love this movie so much is the concept
Speaker 4: of drift compatibility, which I think is one of the
Speaker 4: coolest sci fi concepts of the last like ten years
Speaker 4: of movie making. I've probably like spent too many dates
Speaker 4: talking about it. But the fact that you can only
Speaker 4: pilot these giant robots by sharing the neural load with
Speaker 4: another person rather it be like familial platonic romantic like
Speaker 4: the fact that you have to have that connection to
Speaker 4: share the load is really beautiful. I think this movie
Speaker 4: talks a lot about human connection and having faith in
Speaker 4: each other and how we can achieve things. And as
Speaker 4: someone who doesn't always see the good in everyone, I
Speaker 4: think that's why I love.
Speaker 2: This movie so much.
Speaker 4: Not to mention the fact that the scores by Rahman
Speaker 4: Dijwadi I hope pronounced that right, who also produced the
Speaker 4: Game of Throne score, West World Score if I ever
Speaker 4: need to get shit done, I'm playing that full blast,
Speaker 4: especially the theme song A great cast, Jacks Teller, Ak,
Speaker 4: Charlie Hunnam at the height of a sense of anarchy
Speaker 4: phase Rinku Koncucci.
Speaker 2: On Peerlman, Charley Day.
Speaker 4: And then it just Elbow giving the we're canceling the
Speaker 4: Apocalypse speech, like what more can you want from your
Speaker 4: sci fi movie? I'm not gonna mention this sequel, even
Speaker 4: though I was excited.
Speaker 2: To see the drum player was in it. But we're
Speaker 2: not gonna mention it.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I just I want everyone to watch the movie,
Speaker 4: rewatch the movie.
Speaker 2: I think it needs so much more love. Thanks, Thanks Maya.
Speaker 2: If you have theories or passions you want to share,
Speaker 2: hit us up at x ray at crookeet dot com.
Speaker 2: Instructions in the show notes.
Speaker 1: Well that's it for us, Rosie anything the plug, Plug,
Speaker 1: Plug Plug Pum.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna plug a TV show on Amazon freeb called Primo.
Speaker 2: You can't really plug it because you're on strike, but
Speaker 2: it's really good. It's absolutely delightful. You can watch all
Speaker 2: the episodes now. It's hilarious, it's funny. Jason absolutely put
Speaker 2: a boor garlic reference in there for the Star Wars fans.
Speaker 2: Shay is obviously also like a huge pop culture person,
Speaker 2: so if that's why you listen to us, you will
Speaker 2: love it. But it's really just a great family drama,
Speaker 2: Mike shir you know the iconbine things like Parks and Rex.
Speaker 2: You're early in good hands, absolutely delightful. The Five Uncles
Speaker 2: are miraculous, and you will fall in love and you
Speaker 2: will have a favorite and it's just a wonderful show.
Speaker 2: So you should go and watch it.
Speaker 1: Catch the next episode on Friday, May twenty six. This
Speaker 1: is the episode of x ray Vision to catch up
Speaker 1: on some Star Wars, including Star Wars Visions Volume two
Speaker 1: and its Jedi Survivor. The game that is wrestling four
Speaker 1: times in our video game Cues against Legend of Ze Tears.
Speaker 2: The way my life has been torn into by those
Speaker 2: two games, Like, I want to play them both at
Speaker 2: the same time, and it is impossible. It is just
Speaker 2: absolutely bond because I'm very excited to talk about it
Speaker 2: because it is I think a far far superior game
Speaker 2: to the original. I'm loving playing it. Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 2: Subscribe on YouTube to x ray Vision, where you can
Speaker 2: watch full episodes of the show like this one, and
Speaker 2: check out our discord that we mentioned a lot, because
Speaker 2: it's full of great people and we hang out in
Speaker 2: that and there's conversations from Star Wars to Survivor. It's
Speaker 2: just absolutely great.
Speaker 1: Five star reviews, five star writings. We love them. We
Speaker 1: gotta have them, you gotta give.
Speaker 2: Them to us.
Speaker 1: Here is one from d ken Dzy twenty three, twenty three.
Speaker 1: Twenty three, twenty three market Move for a show that
Speaker 1: has been very Marvel and Star Wars heavy. It's fun
Speaker 1: when a podcast covers something really different. Market Moves is
Speaker 1: my favorite segment and I'm sad that it'll end when Succession.
Speaker 2: Ends in a few ooh.
Speaker 1: D Kendzy twenty three. Xtra Vision is a Crooked Media production.
Speaker 1: The show is produced by Chris Lord and sul Rubin
Speaker 1: and executive produced by me Jason Contecci, and our editing
Speaker 1: and sound design is by Viscillis Fortopoulos. Video production by
Speaker 1: Delon Villanueva and Rachel Gaieski. Social media by Awa Oklati
Speaker 1: and Caroline Dunfie. Thank you to Brian Basquez for our themes.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, See you next time.