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Speaker 1: It's the big take from Bloomberg News and iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 1: I'm West Caasoba today. Green bonds. They're selling billions of

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Speaker 1: dollars worth of them, but just how green are they really?

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Speaker 1: It sounds like a noble enough IDEA company, or maybe

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Speaker 1: a government needs money to pay for a big solar

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Speaker 1: power project, or to replace dirty diesel school buses with

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Speaker 1: electric ones, so they issue what's called a green bond.

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Speaker 1: Green bonds worked like any other bond. Investors buy them

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Speaker 1: to finance a project. The investors are paid back with interest,

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Speaker 1: and they get to feel good about themselves for putting

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Speaker 1: their money into a cleaner future. The increasing demand for

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Speaker 1: this kind of ethical investing has led to an explosion

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Speaker 1: in the number of green bonds of every description. The

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Speaker 1: thing is, it's not always easy to tell if projects

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Speaker 1: described as green really are or if it's just clever marketing.

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Speaker 1: That's what we're digging into today, and we'll start with

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Speaker 1: the basics. My colleague Aaron Rutcoff joins me now he

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Speaker 1: oversees climate and environmental coverage at Bloomberg Green. Aaron, thanks

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Speaker 1: for coming on the show, Thanks for having me with

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Speaker 1: what is a green bond? Green bond is you're borrowing money,

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Speaker 1: you're taking on debt, and you're spending that money on

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Speaker 1: an explicitly pro climate, pro environmental energy transition oriented project.

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Speaker 1: And who's issuing these bonds, Like who's borrowing and who's

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Speaker 1: looking for this money? You could be a sovereign government,

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Speaker 1: so you know, you could be the government of India

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Speaker 1: who just entered the green bond market for the first time,

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Speaker 1: and you're trying to use this money on you know,

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Speaker 1: big infrastructure projects on solar farms. Controversially, you could be

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Speaker 1: a fossil fuel company and you're trying to lower the

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Speaker 1: emissions with some of your refineries, or you could be

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Speaker 1: trying to build renewable energy infrastructure for a big company

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Speaker 1: that's trying to put solar panels on the roof of

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Speaker 1: its warehouses. All of that would follow every bonds. So

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Speaker 1: you're issuing these bonds, you're saying, hey, buy these bonds,

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Speaker 1: you'll get a return on them, and the money is

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Speaker 1: going to be used for good right right, And it

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Speaker 1: has to have dedicated green purpose. It can't just be

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Speaker 1: an all purpose debt instrument to raise money for your company.

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Speaker 1: It's got to be or your government. It's got to

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Speaker 1: be going directly to some explicitly named green project. And

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Speaker 1: so that's the difference between say a green and in

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Speaker 1: regular bond because governments and companies they issue bonds all

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Speaker 1: the time to pay for projects, and the deal is sure,

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Speaker 1: you give us the money and you'll get a return, right.

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Speaker 1: And I think one of the reasons why green bonds

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Speaker 1: are appealing is because people who might invest in your

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Speaker 1: debt can be the people who just like your government

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Speaker 1: or your company as an investment, right, like your normal

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Speaker 1: people who would be interested in such a thing. But

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Speaker 1: you also open up a whole wider world of people

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Speaker 1: that are interested in marketing themselves as having invested in

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Speaker 1: e s G. E s G is environmental, social and

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Speaker 1: governance criteria for investing. It's hugely popular now in addition

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Speaker 1: to everyone else who might have previously been interested in

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Speaker 1: your debt, you now have e s G investors. These

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Speaker 1: green bands have become very popular. How big is the

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Speaker 1: worldwide green bond market right now? So, uh, it's only

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Speaker 1: been around since two thousand seven. So if you want

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Speaker 1: to go lifetime two thousand seven and now you're at

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Speaker 1: three point eight trillion dollars, And if you want to

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Speaker 1: look at a more recent According to Bloomberg, in e

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Speaker 1: F in the first half of this year there was

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Speaker 1: four and ninety two billion dollars and and every month,

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Speaker 1: you know, it goes up and down, but you're seeing

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Speaker 1: tens of billions of dollars of new green bond activity.

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Speaker 1: You know in any given month right now? Is there

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Speaker 1: any standard that you have to meet for a green band,

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Speaker 1: like you have to fulfill these requirements or can anyone

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Speaker 1: just claim that their bond is green? So wes If

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Speaker 1: you want to do a green bond in Europe, there

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Speaker 1: are standards there. Europe was the first one to go

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Speaker 1: into green bonds in a big way. There's still the

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Speaker 1: biggest market for it, and they're the furthest along in regulations,

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Speaker 1: so they're in the process of adopting very clearly defined

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Speaker 1: standards and most of the time those standards are being

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Speaker 1: observed right now, even if they don't have the full

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Speaker 1: force of law because they're not finalized yet. But if

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Speaker 1: you're doing it in the US, it's gonna be like

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Speaker 1: so many climate things under a voluntary standards, So there's

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Speaker 1: a standard setting body you're supposed to be complying with

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Speaker 1: their rules and there's certain you know, processes, like your

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Speaker 1: most bonds, you don't have to report on the activity

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Speaker 1: that's going into the bonds. Like if you're doing standard

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Speaker 1: corporate debt, you don't have to do any special reporting

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Speaker 1: to meet that bond criteria going forward. But with green bonds,

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Speaker 1: under the voluntary standards in the US, you're gonna be

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Speaker 1: making statements about, you know, how's that hydro electric project going,

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Speaker 1: or how's that battery project that you took the bond

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Speaker 1: out for. And that makes it easier for people like

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Speaker 1: a journalist to look into what's happening. But you know,

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Speaker 1: in the U s, if you want to know what's

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Speaker 1: truly happening in a green bond, you know you're gonna

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Speaker 1: need to look into it. A regulator that's going to

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Speaker 1: come in and penalize you if you're if you're not

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Speaker 1: following the rule. I imagine you spend a lot of

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Speaker 1: time with the Bloom Green team trying to find out

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Speaker 1: whether these projects are green. Do you find a lot

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Speaker 1: of them that claim to be that aren't. Yes, Yes,

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Speaker 1: there was recently some work we were doing looking at

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Speaker 1: data centers in the US as a particular user of

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Speaker 1: green bond Now I'm not the standard setting body by

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Speaker 1: any means, and I certainly wouldn't be making like a

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Speaker 1: one size all decree here. But data centers produce a

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Speaker 1: lot of emissions, and so it's not obvious if you're

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Speaker 1: just looking at it on the service that that would

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Speaker 1: be the greenest of all possible investments. Are the results

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Speaker 1: being seen from all this money being spent? So, like,

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Speaker 1: can you measure it in the atmosphere in terms of

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Speaker 1: like is carbon dioxide going down because we have green bonds?

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Speaker 1: I think there's been a lot of capital that's moved

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Speaker 1: into green projects in a way that you know, a

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Speaker 1: good amount of it is is positive. It's brought a

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Speaker 1: lot of finance into renewable energy. Now there's an economic

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Speaker 1: basis for renewable energy in a way there wasn't before.

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Speaker 1: The cost of building solar or wind is often going

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Speaker 1: to be the cheapest new source of energy anywhere that

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Speaker 1: you go. So if the question is, like our green

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Speaker 1: bonds transforming the planet so that it's much more sustainable,

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Speaker 1: is it going to the places that are the hardest

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Speaker 1: city carbonize and bringing a lot of money in, I

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Speaker 1: think they're The answer is a little more difficult to

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Speaker 1: see guidelines on really what is a green bond and

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Speaker 1: what is not, so that you don't just slap that

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Speaker 1: label on for a good look. We tend to see

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Speaker 1: a lot of green bond activity going into things that

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Speaker 1: are already very safe and established, and what you're not

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Speaker 1: seeing is green bonds as a way to say, decarbonize

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Speaker 1: the Asian industry or some other kind of heavy industry

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Speaker 1: that's really difficult right now to solve where we really

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Speaker 1: do need more capital to bring about climate solutions. So

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Speaker 1: right now you're seeing a lot of it go to

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Speaker 1: things that are already very successful and maybe not as

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Speaker 1: much going into the big innovations that we need for

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Speaker 1: like the next step of decarbonization. I hear this phrase

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Speaker 1: greenwashing a lot when it comes to green bonds. What

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Speaker 1: is greenwashing? Greenwashing is just making a claim of climate

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Speaker 1: impact or de harbonization or environmental positivity that's really a

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Speaker 1: mask for business as usual or a practice that isn't

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Speaker 1: helping very much. Do you see a lot of greenwashing

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Speaker 1: in green bonds? Yes, I mean you can very easily

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Speaker 1: find projects that don't seem to really map onto a

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Speaker 1: very effective or measurable decarbonization. Drawing green bonds. You can

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Speaker 1: find things where the money is going to places that

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Speaker 1: aren't positive at all, that might be negative. I mean

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Speaker 1: that the example of a data center drawing green bonds,

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Speaker 1: You're gonna have a lot of questions, so you're gonna

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Speaker 1: want to ask about that project. There are fossil fuel

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Speaker 1: companies that are drawing green bonds while they're still building

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Speaker 1: new fossil fuel resources. You know, still the green bond

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Speaker 1: might not be going to that, but it's going to

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Speaker 1: the same company that's also expanding it's fossil fuel. You're

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Speaker 1: going to have a lot of questions you're gonna want

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Speaker 1: to ask. And in the world where in right now

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Speaker 1: you're going to have to really look closely at each

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Speaker 1: project before you you can feel absolutely certain that it's

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Speaker 1: not connected to green washing. Therein Rudcoff, thanks for coming

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Speaker 1: on the show. Thanks for having me. West one country

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Speaker 1: putting that green label on all kinds of projects China.

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Speaker 1: We talk about that after the break. Rebecca Jung Willins

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Speaker 1: joins me now. She is a government reporter for Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: based in Hong Kong. Rebecca, you and our colleagues Caroline Khan,

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Speaker 1: Shirley and Adrian Lung have written this big story taking

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Speaker 1: a look at China's green bands and where that money

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Speaker 1: is really going. That's not always an easy thing to

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Speaker 1: find out, is it. China has built one of the

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Speaker 1: world's biggest screen bond markets. It's raised more than three

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Speaker 1: hundred billion since twenty fifteen, and it's really sort of

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Speaker 1: focused on trying to rain in some of the environmental

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Speaker 1: problems in China. But like many parts of the world

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Speaker 1: that have tried to develop these sort of queen financing markets,

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Speaker 1: that have been real concerns about disclosure and gaps and

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Speaker 1: issues with transparency. So they built a three hundred billion

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Speaker 1: dollar green band market in really just seven years, and

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Speaker 1: it's central because President ju and Ping has made this

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Speaker 1: a very important part of China's sort of green energy transition.

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Speaker 1: Is that right? Absolutely? So, China's sort of green ambitions

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Speaker 1: have been a central part of Season Ping's policy. He's

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Speaker 1: placed at the heart of a lot of what the

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Speaker 1: central government has sought to do over the past decade,

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Speaker 1: and he's really done more than any other leader. He

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Speaker 1: said to be a true believer in the environmental cause,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of that initially focused on trying to

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Speaker 1: curb really excessive pollution in many of China's megacities. She's

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Speaker 1: Pink's ambitions for China's environmental policies sort of continue to

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Speaker 1: be dominated by phrases that he has, including this one

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Speaker 1: that mountain and river green are mountains of silver and gold,

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Speaker 1: and that's not going to be cheap. And the reason

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Speaker 1: why they're issuing these bands in part is because by

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Speaker 1: their own estimates, it's going to cost just like an

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Speaker 1: astronomical amount of money. Absolutely as so, by their own projections,

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Speaker 1: it could cost upwards of eighteen trillion US dollars to

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Speaker 1: fund this green transition. So it is an immense amount

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Speaker 1: of money, and in that context, China's green bond market

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Speaker 1: so far is just a small sliver of that. So

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Speaker 1: you looked at a bunch of different, big, ambitious projects

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Speaker 1: that some of these green bands are going to fund.

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Speaker 1: In your question was how green are they? What are

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Speaker 1: some of these projects? So one of the interesting projects

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Speaker 1: that we looked at was this Herbey Iron and Steel company,

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Speaker 1: and it was initially intended this bond to sort of

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Speaker 1: help with pollution provincial and control, but it was actually

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Speaker 1: in part used to fund the relocation of a factory

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Speaker 1: that had already happened, so the factory was moved from

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Speaker 1: Herbe's provincial capital, and residents there were of course pleased

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Speaker 1: um and said it had helped with pollution. But the issue,

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Speaker 1: I think is that the plant's new neighbors are skeptical

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Speaker 1: about the green credentials or the environmental friendliness of that project.

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Speaker 1: So we spoke to one man who runs a private

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Speaker 1: bus line in the area where the new factory has

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Speaker 1: been built, and he suspects that the pollution prevention system

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Speaker 1: is actually turned off when nobody's watching, and he noted

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Speaker 1: that the smoke you can see smoke from the factory

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Speaker 1: better at night. He also pointed to the dilapidated buildings

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Speaker 1: that belonged to former villages in the new areas and

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Speaker 1: said that he was planning to leave soon and that

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Speaker 1: nobody lives there anymore, saying that one more transparent element

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Speaker 1: about the project is that it did include its targets

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Speaker 1: for emission and pollution reduction. So, for example, set out

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Speaker 1: to try and save more than a hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: thousand tons of coal and more than eight hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: tons of water and more than eighty thousand tons of

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Speaker 1: c O two emissions, so it did lay out some

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Speaker 1: explicit targets. You tried to sort out which of these

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Speaker 1: big projects funded about green bands were in fact green projects.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us what you found? So we took

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Speaker 1: this sort of case study of thirty five of some

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Speaker 1: of China's biggest green bonds from more than a thousand

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Speaker 1: of the securities that have been issued so far, and

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Speaker 1: of the ten of the biggest bonds, about half of

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Speaker 1: them didn't have any disclosures about what type of projects

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Speaker 1: they were going to, and one of the biggest bonds,

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Speaker 1: although it disclosed more than two twenty different projects, didn't

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Speaker 1: really specify what types of projects and what actual projects

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Speaker 1: they were going to. So we did find there were

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Speaker 1: these transparency issues with that case study. One of the

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Speaker 1: criticisms of green bands is that buyers don't really have

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Speaker 1: a very good idea of how green the project actually is,

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Speaker 1: and with China that seems to be an especially big problem.

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Speaker 1: So until relatively recently, green got bonds could actually be

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Speaker 1: used to fund so called clean coal. That was something

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Speaker 1: that was very controversial, particularly with international investors. That's no

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Speaker 1: longer now acceptable as part of the green bond framework,

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Speaker 1: and it's just one of the things that authorities have

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Speaker 1: laid out to try and bring the standards of China's

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Speaker 1: environmental bonds closer to international standards and closer in particular

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Speaker 1: to Europe set US. Instead, some of those companies, those

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Speaker 1: coal companies, could in turn try to issue transition bonds

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Speaker 1: which would help with that movement to an alternative source

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Speaker 1: of energy or to find cleaner ways of producing energy.

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Speaker 1: So who is buying all of these bands? If they

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Speaker 1: have just eventually have trillions of dollars of investors, they're

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Speaker 1: not all in China? Who is investing in bands where

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Speaker 1: it's not always clear where the money is going? So

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Speaker 1: about Chinese green bonds are denominated in U n so

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Speaker 1: those that were so known as local bonds, and they're

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Speaker 1: largely really accessible to local investors. That leaves about thirty

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Speaker 1: percent of bonds which are denominated in hard currencies, typically

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Speaker 1: in US dollars, and these are the ones that are

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Speaker 1: much easier for international investors to buy. So the bulk

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Speaker 1: of the bonds that Chinese companies issues are are actually

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Speaker 1: predominantly bought and sold by local investors, and particularly really

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Speaker 1: by financial institutions and authorities themselves have urged the market

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Speaker 1: to step in and try and boost am on for

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Speaker 1: these types of notes. One way to boost a MAN,

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Speaker 1: I suppose, would be to increase the transparency around what

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Speaker 1: an investor's money is being spent on. Absolutely, so China has,

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Speaker 1: for example, try to increase and improve standards around green bonds,

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Speaker 1: particularly trying to introduce these taxonomys, systems of classification and

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Speaker 1: make them sort of closer to European standards, which are

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Speaker 1: sort of considered. I think that the best in show here,

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Speaker 1: and that's essential to attracting particularly international investors, who typically

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Speaker 1: have higher standards when it comes to fulfilling the requirements

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Speaker 1: of their green mandates on funds. For example, you mentioned

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Speaker 1: that of the buyers of these bands are local investors

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Speaker 1: paying in yuan. It's not at all clear that they're

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Speaker 1: all buying these bands because they're green. What other reason

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Speaker 1: would they be buying these bands for. So it's not

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Speaker 1: really clear that we're seeing many local investors choosing to

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Speaker 1: buy lots of these bonds because of their green credentials.

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Speaker 1: A lot of them seem to be bought and sold

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Speaker 1: by financial institutions themselves, so I think there is an

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Speaker 1: imperative felt from these financial institutions. Many of which are

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Speaker 1: state banks to meet these sort of policies that are

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Speaker 1: set out at the top to try to buy, sell,

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Speaker 1: and engage in these green financing markets. But it's not

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Speaker 1: really clear if the market itself has been motivated to

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Speaker 1: engage to buy green debt because of the environmental goals. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, we haven't seen a massive rush of green

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Speaker 1: credit funds where the mandate or the requirement of the

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Speaker 1: fund is to focus specifically on environmental debt. That's different

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Speaker 1: from say in Europe, where we have seen more of

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Speaker 1: that kind of activity. And does it look good for

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Speaker 1: them to be investing in something that the presidentcy Jimping

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Speaker 1: has publicly said is important to him. Authorities do seem

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Speaker 1: to be aware that they need to encourage the market

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Speaker 1: itself to try and fill the gap when it comes

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Speaker 1: to investing in this type of product and try and

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Speaker 1: sort of generate demand from the market itself. But we

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Speaker 1: have certainly seen companies looking to try and meet these

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Speaker 1: green goals and selling debt, possibly even when it isn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily something which would obviously fulfill some kind of green requirement.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that China will ultimately mirror Europe and

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Speaker 1: other Western band markets which have greater, if not terrific transparency,

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Speaker 1: or do you think they'll stay the same and other

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Speaker 1: nations will start to mimic China in issuing a lot

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Speaker 1: of bands without a lot of transparency. Well, China certainly

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Speaker 1: has a different challenge to more developed countries. It's essentially

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Speaker 1: trying to sort of still grow and develop its economy,

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Speaker 1: move out of industrial phase, and meet these very ambitious

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Speaker 1: environmental targets at the same time. But I do think

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Speaker 1: that China ultimately is trying to move towards these better

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Speaker 1: standards that we see in Europe and other Western bond

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Speaker 1: markets which have much greater transparency. So for example, moving

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Speaker 1: away from using green bonds to find the clean coal,

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Speaker 1: which is very controversial among international investors, plus now saying

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Speaker 1: that all of the use of proceeds from bonds have

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Speaker 1: to go to green projects. Are two ways where China

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Speaker 1: is trying to align its standards more closely with European standards.

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Speaker 1: Do you anticipate that China will begin to really aggressively

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Speaker 1: court outside investors to try to get international buyers for

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Speaker 1: these bands. Well, on the one hand, I think the

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Speaker 1: move to adopt some of these international standards does suggest

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Speaker 1: it is trying to create more integrated system. We have seen,

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Speaker 1: of course, about a third of the bonds issued in

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Speaker 1: offshore currency, that they are sold outside of mainland China,

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Speaker 1: where it's much easier for international investors to access them,

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Speaker 1: saying that the bulk of China's credit market, which is

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Speaker 1: has been historically used to fund the enormous amount of

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Speaker 1: its development, really is in the onshore market where it's

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Speaker 1: they're really dominated by local investors and local financial institutions.

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Speaker 1: So the bulk of China's nineteen trillion dollar credit market

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Speaker 1: is in fact onshore. Rebecca Jing Wilkins, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for talking to me. Thanks you very much for having me.

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Speaker 1: What does a green band project that's actually green look like?

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Speaker 1: Our producer in London, Frederica Romagnello, took a stroll down

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Speaker 1: the Thames River to find out. I'm in London. I'm

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Speaker 1: standing just underneath Blackfriars Bridge. It's the average London rainy day.

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Speaker 1: There is a little bit of sunshine, there's quite a

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Speaker 1: lot of rain coming down, and I'm standing in a

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Speaker 1: construction site with Camill Cocken High Camille, Fredrika Camille, you

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Speaker 1: are the interim head of Treasury a tide way. Could

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Speaker 1: you tell me a bit more about tideway and why

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Speaker 1: of all places today we're standing in a construction site.

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Speaker 1: London relies on a sewer built for a population less

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Speaker 1: than half its current size, and as a result there's

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Speaker 1: millions of tons, roughly fourteen million a year they get

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Speaker 1: pumped into the River Thames. We we're building a giant

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Speaker 1: sewer which is going to intercept these bills, and I've

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Speaker 1: lurned them into our into our super sewer. This will

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Speaker 1: then we carried these words across the sewer. Treatments worked

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Speaker 1: in Beckton out to the east of London, so Mill.

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Speaker 1: We are standing now in the construction side of black Friers.

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Speaker 1: Black Frier Station is just behind us. The tent is

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Speaker 1: just a few meters in front of us. Obviously we

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Speaker 1: cannot go underwater into the actual tunnel, but what does

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Speaker 1: that look like? The Thames Tideway Tunnel that we're building

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Speaker 1: is a twenty five kilometers along long tunnel seven point

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Speaker 1: two m with so enough to get three London buses

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Speaker 1: side by side inside it. Just you can picture that

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Speaker 1: it stretches from Acton in the west to Abbey Mills

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Speaker 1: in the east. It will be capturing the forty million

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Speaker 1: tons of raw sewage that's pubbed into the Thames every year.

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Speaker 1: What about now, because now this tunnel is not operational,

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Speaker 1: So where is that waste going at the moment? Currently

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Speaker 1: that waste is going into the Thames every year. Um,

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Speaker 1: where we're standing here a Black Friers bridge. This is

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Speaker 1: this is by the fleets here. So the combined mind

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Speaker 1: sewerage overflowed, this alone pumps half a million tons of

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Speaker 1: raw sewage into the Thames on average every single year.

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Speaker 1: So the reason why we're talking about this specific project

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Speaker 1: during this episode about green bonds is because part of

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Speaker 1: the funding for this project has come from brain bonds.

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Speaker 1: Could you tell me more about who is financing this

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Speaker 1: project where the money is coming from. So the money

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Speaker 1: is coming from a combination of of equity and debt.

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Speaker 1: So first of all, we've we've had the support from

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Speaker 1: shareholders who have invested one point three billion of their

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Speaker 1: own money of equity into the company and that's been

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Speaker 1: injected as cash and used for the construction of the tunnel.

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Speaker 1: We've had a further one point eight billion in green

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Speaker 1: bonds of the total three billion of that issued, all

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Speaker 1: going into the construction of this asset, and when it

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Speaker 1: comes to those grain bunds. In twenty seventeen you publish

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Speaker 1: a framework for the issues of said green bunds, which

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Speaker 1: was later updated in twenty twenty and also earlier the

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Speaker 1: CEO is heabrary. What does the framework entail? Concretely? That

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Speaker 1: framework is there to ensure that proceeds of the bonds

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Speaker 1: are being used correctly. Now, in Tideway's case, every single

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Speaker 1: penny that we receive is going into a project that's

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Speaker 1: delivering massive environmental benefits. When it comes to the actual

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Speaker 1: building of this tunnel, what sort of green policies and

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Speaker 1: green strategies that are you're putting in place as a

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Speaker 1: company during the building phase. One example of that is

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Speaker 1: runs fronts us here with the barge Tideways, a massive

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Speaker 1: construction project going through the heart of London along the

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Speaker 1: River Thames and impacting some of the business business areas

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Speaker 1: and with with twenty four construction sites. Now on a

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Speaker 1: project of this scale, there's a lot of material being excavated,

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Speaker 1: the lots of material needed and enjoying the construction process.

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Speaker 1: And what these barges have been doing is taking taking

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Speaker 1: a lot of that traffic off of the roads and

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Speaker 1: moving it by river. That brings multiple benefits. So in

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Speaker 1: terms of safety for people in the street, there's there's

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Speaker 1: fewer fewer vehicles on the road. That's also taking pollution

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Speaker 1: off of the road, delivered in a more environmentally friendly way. Um.

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Speaker 1: Some of these bargets are being run on hydrogenated vegetable oil. Now,

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Speaker 1: lots of this material that's been excavated. It's it's good

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Speaker 1: quality material and in rain Um in Essex we've actually

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Speaker 1: used it to create a wetland area for birds. When

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Speaker 1: is this project going to be finished and what does

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Speaker 1: that mean for you know, the esthetic of the tense

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Speaker 1: really So we're entering a new phase in Tyler. So

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Speaker 1: with most of the construction complete, all the all the

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Speaker 1: type primary tunneling has completed with we've done the majority

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Speaker 1: of the secondary lining UM. So the new phase that

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Speaker 1: we're entering now is the commissioning. So it's the over

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Speaker 1: the next couple of years we'll be doing all the testing,

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Speaker 1: making making sure it's operational. Where we're standing here at

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Speaker 1: Black Friars, this is one of the places where we'll

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Speaker 1: have the last thing visible legacy of the project. We

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Speaker 1: expect the project to become operational in camil cockin Entrinum,

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Speaker 1: head of Treasury at Tideway, Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: joining me. Thank you, Federica, thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: That was our producer Federica roman Yellow and you can

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Speaker 1: read the China Green Bond story Rebecca Chung Wilkins talked

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Speaker 1: about at Bloomberg dot com. Thanks for listening to us

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Speaker 1: here at The Big Take, the daily podcast from Bloomberg

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00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 1: and I Heart Radio. For more shows from my Heart Radio,

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00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: visit the i Heart Radio app podcast or wherever you listen.

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Speaker 1: Big Take at Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer of

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Speaker 1: The Big Take is Vicky Burgalina. Our senior producer is

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Speaker 1: Katherine Fink. Our producer is Frederica Romaniello. Our associate producer

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Speaker 1: is ZENEB Sidiki. Raphael M. Seeley is our engineer. Original

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Speaker 1: music by Leo Sidrin. I'm West Cassova. We're taking a

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Speaker 1: pause for the Thanksgiving holiday here in the US, and

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Speaker 1: we'll be back on Monday with another big Take. Enjoy

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Speaker 1: your weekend,