1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Hey, lady, is doctor dim here. If you like this 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: show and you want to make your own, let me 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: tell you about the free platform Anchor. It's a creation 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: tool that allows you to record and edit your podcast 5 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,280 Speaker 1: right from your phone or computer. You can add songs 6 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: from Spotify and create any type of content that you 7 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: are looking for. Anchor will distribute it all for you 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 1: so it can be heard on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and more. 9 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: Download the free Anchor app or go to anchor dot 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: fm to get started. 11 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 2: On this week's episode. In her Space, it seems as 12 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 2: though sometimes in my experienced black men are not accepted 13 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,520 Speaker 2: unless they show up in a certain ways, unless they're 14 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,919 Speaker 2: either ggital or more feminine or things like that. And 15 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,199 Speaker 2: so for that example, that was kind of something that 16 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 2: stood out to me. 17 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: And so Janina, if you could kind of chime in 18 00:00:55,680 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: on that piece and where that may have been offensive, 19 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: why that may be been offensive, and what are some 20 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: ways in which to better address that. 21 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think for me, the issue lilied in 22 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 3: kind of the underlying message behind what was said. And 23 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 3: I think there was also something you said something about 24 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 3: like a lifestyle. 25 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 4: Why is that like such a triggering word for black 26 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 4: queer people. 27 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to her Space, a podcast dedicated to uplifting women 28 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: like you. We're your hosts doctor Dominique Brussard, a college 29 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: professor and psychologist. 30 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: And Terry Lomax, a techie and motivational speaker. In a 31 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: world where black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood, please 32 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 2: join us as we initiate authentic conversations on everything from 33 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: fibroids to fake friends and create a safe space where 34 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 2: black women can. 35 00:01:53,800 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: Just be Our quote of the day, and actually today 36 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 1: we have two quotes because the conversation we're diving into 37 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: today needed both of these quotes to really communicate what we're. 38 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: Trying to say. 39 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: So the first quote, when we face pain and relationships, 40 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: our first response is often to several bonds rather than 41 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: to maintain commitment. And then the second quote, for me, 42 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: forgiveness and compassion are always linked. How do we hold 43 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: people accountable for wrongdoing and yet at the same time 44 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: remain in touch with their humanity enough to believe in 45 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: their capacity to be transformed? Both of those quotes are 46 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: by Bell Hooks. 47 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 2: All right, So, in our last episode, Dom and I 48 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 2: had a chance to interview a special guest, doctor Janina 49 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: Garrett Walker, and we had an insycled conversation about being 50 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 2: black and queer and how we can build a bridge 51 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 2: between black hero and sex women and black queer women. 52 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 2: The interview went well, but during the last thirteen minutes 53 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 2: of the show, it was brought to me and Don's 54 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: attention that there were a few statements that I made 55 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 2: that were deemed problematic. So Don and I wanted to 56 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: invite Jamina back on the show to model a healthy 57 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 2: dialogue that will hopefully empower you to have your own 58 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,000 Speaker 2: healing conversations, despite how uncomfortable or passionate they might be. 59 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 2: And so Janina, we want to welcome you back to 60 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 2: the show. 61 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you for having me. 62 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 2: You're so welcome, You're so welcome. And again, I just 63 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 2: want to thank you, Janina for bringing your concern to 64 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 2: our attention, because I think that sometimes we live in 65 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 2: a world, or some people do, as the quote said, 66 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 2: several bonds more often than we hold space for conversation 67 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 2: and learning. And today I'm coming from a place of 68 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: humility and also eagerness, with an eagerness to learn, and 69 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: I appreciate the opportunity for us to be able to 70 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,279 Speaker 2: showcase this on our platform, how we can have conversations 71 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 2: as black people, even when someone messes up or if 72 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: people disagree, like, it's possible for us to do this. 73 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: And so that's our goal today is just to model 74 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 2: this behavior and have a really good conversation about last episodes. 75 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 2: So if you did not catch that last episode, you 76 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 2: need to catch that so that you can have more 77 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 2: context for our conversation today. 78 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: And so Terry, do you want to kind of recap 79 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: some of the moments that you recall from those thirteen minutes? 80 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: For sure? 81 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 2: So I would say there were a few things, maybe 82 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 2: like three things that'sob out to me, and so one 83 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: of I'll give you like a little time stamp. So 84 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: in the last episode, I think it was around like 85 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 2: the forty five minute mark or so, what I was 86 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 2: saying is that, well, what I tried to say was 87 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: that sometimes it appears as though there is not representation 88 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: across the board for black people, and sometimes it feels 89 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 2: as though there is. The LGBT identity is being promoted 90 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 2: more heavily than just being like black in any other way, 91 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 2: And so that was something that came across as offensive. 92 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: But I think it was a statement that I made 93 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 2: in that sort of narrative, and I think it may 94 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 2: have been I think it was gay as the way, 95 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 2: and that was something that I did not realize had 96 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,600 Speaker 2: such a heavy and negative connotation. And so I would 97 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 2: say that one thing that I learned from that is 98 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 2: and I love to dive into that and why is this, 99 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 2: why is this problematic? And things like that. But one 100 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 2: thing that I noticed is that sometimes we say something 101 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 2: with the intent being pure, or we believe that we're 102 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 2: being you know, expressing ourselves, or it's positive, or we're 103 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 2: communicating in a way where we're just trying to share 104 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 2: our opinion, but at the same time, that doesn't necessarily 105 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 2: equal impact. And so you could say, yeah, I meant 106 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: to say it this way, but it can impact someone 107 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: totally different, and I think we have to be aware 108 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 2: of that when communicating that it doesn't always land in 109 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 2: the way that we anticipated. 110 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: And so Janina, if you could kind of chime in 111 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: on that piece and where that may have been offensive, 112 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: why that may be been offensive, and what are some 113 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: ways in which to better address that. 114 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think for me, the issue lied in 115 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 3: kind of the underlying message behind. 116 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 4: What was said. This idea that I think Terry, what. 117 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 3: You said was something along the wies of like LGBTQ 118 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 3: initiatives or being pushed on black men, and then there 119 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 3: was or like LGBTQ identities are being pushed on us 120 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 3: with some of the language that was used, and that's 121 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 3: actually not accurate. When you look at at media representation, 122 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 3: the amount of queer representation is still fairly en low. 123 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 4: Sorry, and it is yes, higher than it was in 124 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 4: the past. 125 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 3: You know, back in the day, all we had was 126 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,839 Speaker 3: the super stereotypical imagery of men on film, which was 127 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 3: so problematic, you know, from in Living Color, and so 128 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 3: that at one point that was the only representation we 129 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 3: saw of kind of black quote unquote gay men, even 130 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 3: though those men were not gay. And now we do 131 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 3: see gay characters on TV, but the proportion of gay characters, 132 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 3: even within like black television, is so low in comparison 133 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 3: to sis gender. 134 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 4: And heterosexual black men. And so that's where I had. 135 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 3: The biggest issues, because it's not true that you know, 136 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 3: this quote unquote gay identity is being quote unquote pushed 137 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 3: on anyone, because when you really think about it, the 138 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 3: amount of black gay characters is actually really low, or 139 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 3: the amount of black kind of queer anything. 140 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 4: It's it's relatively low in. 141 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 3: Comparison to heterosexual kind of characters and plots and all 142 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 3: of that. 143 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 4: And yeah, so I don't know, that. 144 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 3: Would kind of be my thought on the media piece. 145 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 3: And I think there was also something you said something 146 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 3: about like the lifestyle. Lifestyle is like such a triggering 147 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 3: word for black queer people. 148 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,119 Speaker 4: I was having a conversation. 149 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 3: With a friend of mine and I had never really 150 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 3: thought of it this way, but she said, lifestyle is 151 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 3: just coded black homophobia, right, because people try to say 152 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,239 Speaker 3: that black queer people are different by using lifestyle. 153 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 4: When it's like, my lifestyle the same as yours. 154 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 3: I'm trying to pay my bills, I'm trying to love 155 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 3: my family, I'm trying to go to work, right, Like, 156 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 3: the lifestyle is not different. We lived the exact same lifestyle. 157 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 3: It's just who we love. 158 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 4: She might look different, but everyone who everyone loves looks different. 159 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 3: None of us are really loving on the same person 160 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 3: unless we're in a polyamorous relationship or students. So yeah, 161 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 3: so the lifestyle and that media piece, that would kind 162 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 3: of be my my response to. 163 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: That, Okay, And so let's move on to the next 164 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: thing that Terry found. 165 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 2: All right, So the next thing is actually something that 166 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: I caught when we were when I was editing, and 167 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 2: I was like, hmm, I wonder if I can edit 168 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 2: this out, because I realized the mistake as soon as 169 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 2: I re listened to the episode, and in the moment 170 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 2: I had no idea, but relistening, I was like, oh man, 171 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 2: how can I edit this part out? And so what 172 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 2: happened in the last episode. I was telling a story 173 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 2: and I was telling a story about a student that 174 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 2: I met who used the pronouns they them there, and 175 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 2: I missgendered the student by referring to them as she 176 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 2: and the story that I told, And so for some folks, 177 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 2: I realized this can probably be very confusing as they 178 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 2: are learning, and also be it might be offensive for 179 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 2: some folks as well. Although it didn't come it wasn't intentional, 180 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 2: it was definitely a mistake on my end and miss gendering. 181 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: And so although I didn't do that in person and 182 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 2: telling the story, I did And I think that sometimes 183 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 2: again it kind of goes back to the intent versus impact, 184 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 2: like trying to learn but also creating space to just 185 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 2: move a little slower. I think That's something I've learned 186 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: from that experience is like take it a little slower 187 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 2: and really be more intentional and mindful about your words, 188 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: because we all mess up, and I think that we're 189 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: all at work in progress, and it's probably I mean, 190 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 2: it's probably going to happen. It will happen to someone 191 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 2: in the future. But I think it's all about how 192 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 2: do we respond after we make a mistake, right after 193 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 2: we misgender someone, how do we respond, how do we 194 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 2: interact with that person moving forward? Like do we take 195 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 2: responsibility or do we place blame or make it appear 196 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,319 Speaker 2: as though it was minute right when it's something that's 197 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 2: so crucial to someone's ID And so I think it's 198 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 2: just something we have to be mindful about. 199 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, So, Yes, that was another part that I 200 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 3: noticed that there is, you know, some flags for me. 201 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 3: You know, when someone has they then pronouns, I understand 202 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 3: that for a lot of people, they're not used to 203 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 3: using them in a singular form, although they then has 204 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 3: been using a singular form for generations, it's just not 205 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 3: part of our current rhetoric. And so I understand that 206 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 3: for some people it is difficult to kind of stay 207 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 3: in that right because you did good. At first you 208 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 3: were like their pronouns are they? And then you would 209 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 3: be switching back to she, and so you know, easy 210 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 3: way to do is just like stick with they. They 211 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 3: said this, and I assume that they were females. So 212 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 3: I thought I was supposed to use she her pronouns, 213 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 3: but actually I was supposed to use they, right, So 214 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 3: like that's an example of how to continue to use 215 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 3: day for someone who is who. 216 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 4: Has they then pronouns. 217 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 3: Another thing on that same line you said, it was 218 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 3: something like, you know, you would look at them and 219 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 3: you would you would say that they were born female, 220 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 3: So you would think that you're supposed to call them 221 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 3: she heard, but instead their pronouns were they? 222 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: Them? 223 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 3: And the one thing I wanted to kind of challenge 224 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 3: you on is like, how do you know that they 225 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 3: were born female? You know, I think that we often 226 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 3: assume that people are born with certain biology or certain 227 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 3: physical characteristic, but we actually don't know for sure. 228 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really good point. I mean that's I 229 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 2: literally I agree with you. I think that's a really 230 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 2: good point. Sometimes something may look at someone and assume 231 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 2: that they were born a certain way and so, and 232 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 2: just to kind of go back to what I said 233 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 2: in the last episode, that was that was like a brand. 234 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 2: That was literally the first time that had ever happened, 235 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 2: and so in my mind, I was like, Oh, this 236 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 2: is this is what this is. But I think moving 237 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 2: forward that all that, I think this experience in general, 238 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 2: just having the conversation and also interacting with that student 239 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 2: in the way that I did, I think that really 240 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 2: taught me like, oh, wow, when you interact with folks, 241 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 2: you really have to kind of wait for them to 242 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,080 Speaker 2: lead the way and let you know how they're showing 243 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 2: up and how they want to be addressed. And it 244 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 2: was something else I wanted to say in regards. 245 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 4: To that, I can't remember one thing. 246 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: I will say that I remember from the episode, Janina, 247 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: you pointed out early on you said that one of 248 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: the practices that you've adopted is referring to everyone as 249 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: they them. And I think that that's actually a pretty 250 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: good practice that all of us should take into consideration 251 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: and work towards using so that that would lessen the 252 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: opportunity or the times in which we may misgender someone. 253 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 3: Right. Absolutely, that helps a lot, And like Terry said, 254 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 3: we are the people are going to make mistakes, especially 255 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 3: if it's me. Terry said, this is the first time 256 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 3: that they've ever met some with they've been pronounced. The 257 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 3: way that people combat this or kind of can deal 258 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 3: with this in the moment. So say you misgender someone 259 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 3: and you catch it on your own right in that moment, 260 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 3: don't make a super big deal about it, don't make 261 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 3: it about you. Don't play slam on anyone to say, 262 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 3: I apologize, I just realized that I misgendered you. I 263 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 3: will not do that again, pushing most people who have 264 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 3: they been pronouns. Most people who are very clear about 265 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 3: their pronouns and they know what their pronouns are, whether 266 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:09,719 Speaker 3: they're heed him or she her. 267 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 4: If some misgenders them and they make a big deal 268 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 4: and the. 269 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 3: Person makes a big deal out of it, that's actually 270 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,719 Speaker 3: more damaging than if the person just holds themselves accountable 271 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 3: and does better. 272 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 2: That makes that makes sense. You don't want someone to 273 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 2: kind of magnify this mistake that they've made, kind of 274 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 2: like Okay, it's over and done with, Like just do 275 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 2: better next time. The other thing I was going to 276 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 2: say is I know for me, one thing that helps 277 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 2: as I'm learning is also just referring to someone as 278 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,719 Speaker 2: their name, because that way I can just I can 279 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 2: refer to the person and the way that they want 280 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 2: to be referred to, but also how to limit any 281 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 2: mistakes so that it's not an awkward situation, especially if 282 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 2: I'm addressing someone in front of a group, Like, I 283 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 2: never want to make anyone feel, you know, embarrassed or 284 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 2: you know, awkward, awkward. 285 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:52,439 Speaker 4: Exactly, absolutely. 286 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 3: I mean people's names are should always be the first 287 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 3: go to, right, and I think that we're so used 288 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 3: to doing shorthand and saying she him. 289 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 4: That we forget we literally could just call people. 290 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 3: By their names and it wouldn't alleviate all the main 291 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 3: gendering issues. 292 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 1: That's a very, very very valid point. And so we're 293 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: going to move on to the next mistake that Terry 294 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: said that she noticed. 295 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I actually think that I combined two together, 296 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 2: so there was one like a minute apart. So the 297 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 2: first one is more about what we talked about around 298 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 2: the LGBT identity being geared toward the black community, specifically 299 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 2: the black men and boys. That was the first one. 300 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 2: The second one was about sort of the same thing 301 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 2: like representation as far as the two characters. So there 302 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 2: was the cartoon with the two the only black character 303 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 2: in the show that had the two dads, and that example, 304 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 2: I think that goes back to the intent versus impact. 305 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 2: What I was saying there is that it feels as 306 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 2: though it seems as though sometimes when we are represented. 307 00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 2: I feel like Danina touched on this as well, when 308 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 2: we are represented, it seems like we're only represented in 309 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 2: a certain light. And I think it's like a bigger 310 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 2: issue or just a bigger thing that I notice around 311 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 2: black men being presented in a certain way. So I 312 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 2: know that we have in the past, we've had issues 313 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 2: and even now right, we have issues with masculinity, toxic masculinity, right, masculinity, 314 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 2: We have issues with that. And it seems as though 315 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 2: sometimes in my experience, black men are not accepted unless 316 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 2: they show up in a certain ways, unless they're either 317 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 2: gentle or more feminine or things like that. And so 318 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: for that example, that was kind of something that stood 319 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 2: out to me. 320 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, we know the media is trash, so 321 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 4: we're just gonna really. 322 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 2: Put it out there. 323 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 4: The media doesn't love black. 324 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 3: People in general, so it doesn't matter if they're gay 325 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 3: or straight, trans, or sis gender. 326 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 4: The media does not like. 327 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 3: Black people, and they do not ever represent us properly. 328 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 3: I mean, I really think that the only show that 329 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 3: has most accurately reflected black and brown queer people has 330 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 3: been Posed, and that's a new show that literally just 331 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 3: came out in twenty eighteen. Anything prior to that, most 332 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 3: queer characters are not represented in a positive light. They're 333 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 3: not represented properly. They're very unidimensional, and they're usually very stereotypical. 334 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 3: The same thing for sus gender heterosexual black people as well. 335 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 4: The media does not. 336 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 3: Do right by us and their character profiles, except, like 337 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 3: you know, the media really just polarizes black men specifically. 338 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 4: Either they have to. 339 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 3: Be hyper masculine or they have to be super feminine, 340 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 3: and it's like, are y'all crazy? Most black men do 341 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 3: not sit at either end of that. Most black men 342 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 3: find their kind of space somewhere in the middle. 343 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 4: And this gets back to the. 344 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 3: Point of the last episode deconstructing the binary, right, like, 345 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 3: there's no idea that black men have to fit into 346 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 3: a very particular character profile is limiting. I will say 347 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 3: I think that now, actually there's way more positive black 348 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 3: male representation on TV if we even just look at 349 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 3: random from this as us, although we can talk have 350 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 3: a whole episode about white savior complex with his parents 351 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 3: and they got to where he got to be. But 352 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 3: there's also a character on this show called New Amsterdam, 353 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 3: this black cardiothoracic surgeon who's the bomb. 354 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 4: Right, Like, there are like more. 355 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 3: Diverse black characters that were starting to see on primetime TV. 356 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 3: But again, like I said, the media doesn't care about 357 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,360 Speaker 3: Black people, so they still have yet to do any 358 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 3: of us right, regardless of gender, regardless regardless of sex orientation. 359 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:25,479 Speaker 2: Amen to that. 360 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, no arguments for me on that. And so so Terry, 361 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: you kind of presented the things that you noticed, Janina, 362 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: is there anything else that you noticed that you wanted 363 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: us to address? 364 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there were a couple of things. Also. 365 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 3: The one thing that another thing that I noticed that 366 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 3: would say kind of early on in that last thirteen 367 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 3: minutes was there was a mention of a traditional family structure, 368 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:52,679 Speaker 3: and I just wanted to kind of challenge us on 369 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 3: that because as black people, we've never had a quote 370 00:17:55,240 --> 00:18:00,120 Speaker 3: unquote traditional family structure, right, So like white supremacy and 371 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 3: heteron normativity and all of that would have us in classism, 372 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 3: All that would have us thinking that a traditional family 373 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 3: structure structure is a husband, a white what is it. 374 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 4: Two point five kids, a dog in a white pick 375 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 4: of fence. When have black people ever had that? 376 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 2: Not ever, exactly. That's a good point. 377 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 3: So we don't even don't we are Our conceptualization of 378 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 3: traditional family structure is whatever works well for us. So 379 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 3: sometimes that's one parent, and it could be a single mother, 380 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 3: it could be a single father. Sometimes it is a 381 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 3: mother and a father. Sometimes it's a grandma. Sometimes it's 382 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 3: a hunty. Sometimes it's two moms. Sometimes it's two deaths. 383 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:35,400 Speaker 3: White people have never been confined to that limited quote 384 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 3: unquote white traditional family structure. So I just kind of 385 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 3: wanted to remind people of that that we've never had 386 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 3: that luxury because since slavery, we've been separated, right, we 387 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 3: were not able to even stay together regardless of gender, 388 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,439 Speaker 3: sexual orientation, bloodline, family relations, nothing. 389 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: And even if we take it further than that, back 390 00:18:55,920 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: to our ancestors in Africa, if we think about how 391 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: we were raised in the village where you had one 392 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 1: man who had multiple wives, and oftentimes the man would 393 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: go off to war with other men and it would 394 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: be the women all gathered raising the children, and you 395 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: would have multiple generations within one household. So you're right. 396 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 1: We have never been their traditional husband, wife, two point 397 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: five kids. We've always been our own random mix for sure. 398 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 2: And even today, I feel like even today, women are 399 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 2: holding it down. A lot of women are holding it 400 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 2: down for their households, whether or not they have whoever's 401 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 2: in the household, whether it's like a grandmother, the mom, 402 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 2: I mean whatever. Women are definitely holding it down these 403 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 2: states as well. 404 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 4: I mean, you know how we do exactly. 405 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, you know, it's in our blood, 406 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 2: so you know. 407 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 4: And then I think it was one more. 408 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 3: Oh so there was kind of like this you two 409 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 3: kind of debated a little back and forth or tried 410 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 3: to find the right language or try. I appreciate it, 411 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 3: you both were trying to work it out. I think 412 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 3: Terry was trying to say, like, LGBTQ conversations have not 413 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 3: been happening out on like a national scale the way 414 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 3: that they are now, and so there was like this 415 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 3: conversation of like lgbt hasn't been worldwide or I don't 416 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 3: know the words specifically, but like that part of it. 417 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,360 Speaker 3: I just wanted to remind us that like, LGBTQ has 418 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 3: been worldwide four generations, So we haven't been talking about 419 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 3: it within like a like like I think Dom tried 420 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 3: to say like on a within Black communities, but it's 421 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,959 Speaker 3: been happening for centuries, right, So there have been trans 422 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 3: people documented in history prior to colonization. There's so many 423 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 3: notes on Native Americans who were trans. There's so so 424 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 3: many like profiles and written works of people in India 425 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 3: who are trans. There's been so many letters between same 426 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 3: sex relationships between women and women, men and men for 427 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,880 Speaker 3: I don't know how many years, right, we can't even 428 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 3: count how far back. And so LGBTQ has always been here, 429 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 3: it has always been worldwide. It's because of patriarchy, violence, 430 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 3: anti queerness, a lot of the conversations have been silent, 431 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 3: and specifically for Black people because of religion, they've been 432 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 3: explicitly silenced. And so I just kind of want toche 433 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 3: remind people that LGBTQ has always been around, it will 434 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 3: always be here. Your folks are not going anywhere. I 435 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 3: loved us the way we still love on y'all. 436 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 2: Ginina. That's a really good point I remember, And again, 437 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 2: I know for a lot of people that they're like, 438 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 2: this is all new for me, right, and it seems like, oh, 439 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 2: it's just oh it's twenty nineteen or twenty eighteen. This 440 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:40,959 Speaker 2: this is now like the new thing, and it's like, no, 441 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 2: it's been here, right. And I remember talking to an 442 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 2: older family member and she was telling me about a 443 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 2: situation just some lovers from back when she was younger, 444 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 2: and it was the same sex relationship. And I'm just 445 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 2: and the thing about it is those instances were either 446 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 2: hidden or they were like secrets. It's like, oh, don't 447 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 2: tell nobody that, you know, mom, these old friend that 448 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 2: used to always be around, wasn't your aunt too, Like 449 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 2: that was really a girlfriend. It's like those things were 450 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 2: like there was a lot of shame around that. And 451 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 2: I'm sure it's because of patriarchy and the society that 452 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 2: we lived in. But even if everybody, you know, if 453 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 2: you're listening to this and you go back in your family, 454 00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 2: I'm sure that you also find that it's always been there, right. 455 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I mean black people have packed where people 456 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 3: in their families again prior to colonization, through colonization, post colonization, 457 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,160 Speaker 3: and so you know, that kind of leads me to 458 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 3: my last point of I think the last thing you 459 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 3: said is like we need to all come together to 460 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 3: fight the real oppressor of white supremacy. Yes, I one 461 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 3: hundred percent agree with that, but I'm gonna throw a 462 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 3: yes and on that, and Black people have to fight 463 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 3: against their own oppression. You know, we cannot really fight 464 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 3: against white supremacy until we address the fact that our 465 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 3: minds are full of white supremacy because of colonization, and 466 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 3: if Black people do not colonize their minds and kind 467 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 3: of deconstruct the ways in which whiteness has really been 468 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 3: ingrained into us in a variety of ways. 469 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 4: Like I said, religion is. 470 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 3: Part of that, Toxic masculinity is part of that, anti 471 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 3: femininity is part of that, even you know, mistogyny is 472 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 3: part of that. Sexism is part of that. If Black 473 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 3: people do not kind of grapple with their own colonized 474 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 3: thoughts and ways of thinking, there's no way we can 475 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 3: actually all work together to fight against white supremacy because 476 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 3: we're actually perpetuating it on a daily basis and we 477 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 3: don't know that we are. 478 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,679 Speaker 2: That's a really really good point. It sounds like we 479 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:28,680 Speaker 2: have a lot of work to do at home before 480 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 2: we can even really go out there and be a 481 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 2: unified front to fight white supremacy. So yeah, that makes 482 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 2: perfect sense. 483 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 3: I say, I think those were the only things that 484 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,399 Speaker 3: I noticed that we hadn't touched on, and so you know, 485 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 3: I'm always I'm opening to us to continue this conversation 486 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 3: if there's. 487 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 4: Other things that have come up for you all as 488 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 4: we've been talking. 489 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: I think that we're at a good point to kind 490 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: of like kind of pause and kind of process this 491 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: process that we just had, right because I think that 492 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: we put ourselves on a in the space to have 493 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: a really open dialogue, and I want us to kind 494 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 1: of like step back and kind of think about, like, 495 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: what are the things that we pointed out? How what 496 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 1: did we do to make this conversation go well? So 497 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,080 Speaker 1: that our listeners out there, when they are ready to 498 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: have these dialogues with someone in their in their lives, 499 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: what can they do to make sure that the conversation 500 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: may go well. 501 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 2: That's excellent, And I would love to start this off 502 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 2: just by saying when it was when Dom, when you 503 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 2: brought this to my attention. I think for me, there 504 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 2: was a lot of reflection and introspection, and I think 505 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 2: sometimes when something's brought to our attention, we want to 506 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 2: get defensive, we want to protect our ego, and so 507 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 2: for me, it's just been reflected. It's just been reflection. 508 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 2: Having conversations with people that are close to me that 509 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 2: are either in the LGBT community or that are just 510 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,640 Speaker 2: black or just you know, people that are writing me whatever, 511 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 2: people that are in my network. I can process. And 512 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: I've been pretty to new perspectives because of that, and 513 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 2: so I think that's really key. It's just going within yourself, 514 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 2: like you'll put the ego aside, listen like what is 515 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 2: the feedback re listening to the last thirteen minutes of 516 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 2: the episode, and also listening with a different lens. So 517 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 2: once you brought some things to my attention, I was like, 518 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 2: oh damn, I can see how that could be, you know, 519 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 2: could come off this way that makes sense, okay, and 520 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 2: processing that So I think that's really key. And the 521 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 2: other thing I'll add before you know, just I'd love 522 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 2: to hear your feedback as well, is even letting Janina know. 523 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 2: Janina and I don't know each other personally, but just 524 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 2: letting her know like, hey, this is where I'm coming 525 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 2: from energetically, because you imagine how this could have worked 526 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 2: if like we didn't have any you know, prep and 527 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 2: it was just like, hey, let's just go, and it 528 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 2: would have been like back and forth and like a 529 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 2: very confrontational situation. You never know if you don't know 530 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 2: you know who you're dealing with. And so I think 531 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 2: just putting it on the table, like, hey, this is 532 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 2: where I'm coming from. I want to learn. I'm coming 533 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 2: from a place of humility, accountability, and take responsibility for 534 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 2: my actions because I have a lot to learn. This 535 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 2: is all still new, and I want to learn. I 536 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 2: want to hear your perspective and get more insight from 537 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 2: someone who is an expert in this space, with you know, 538 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 2: research and studies around us, and so I think they 539 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 2: lived experience and lived experience, and those are I think 540 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 2: those were two key points for me. And I think 541 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 2: this is a beautiful experience. I'm really excited that we 542 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 2: have a chance to have this conversation in her space. 543 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 4: Yeah absolutely. 544 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 3: I mean, like like you said, Terry, this could have 545 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 3: gone so many different ways. I was actually nervous at 546 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 3: the beginning. I wasn't sure if I wanted to bring 547 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 3: it up to Dom because I, you know, the podcast 548 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 3: I posted. I listened to it, and I had no 549 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 3: clue that you all were going to continue the conversation 550 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 3: after I got off the phone. So when I listened 551 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 3: and I got off the phone on the podcast, and 552 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 3: I was like, what could they still be talking about 553 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 3: for thirteen minutes? There's still thirteen minu this level of 554 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 3: the podcast. And so I listened and I was like, oh, man, 555 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 3: And so I was like, ooh, do I text them? 556 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 3: Do I not text them? 557 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 4: Because, like you said, Terry, we don't know each other. 558 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 4: We've literally never even met a personally. I know what right, 559 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 4: And so I just let that know. 560 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,360 Speaker 3: You know that I had some reservations and that y'all 561 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 3: were going to probably get. 562 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 4: Some pushback from people about you know, what was said. 563 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 3: But I'm happy that I did, and I'm glad that 564 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 3: it was able to open up this conversation. 565 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 4: And I agree with you. 566 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 3: I think the best way to have a conversation when 567 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 3: you do need to have a difficult dialogue with. 568 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: Someone is that you do come. 569 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 3: Calmly, that you leave your ego outside. Although we shouldn't 570 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 3: walk with our ego anywhere, but we know that we 571 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 3: do need to leave that outside and that the defensiveness 572 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 3: is generally what ruins almost every conversation, you know, when 573 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 3: we shut down, when we just say, oh, well, you know, 574 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 3: this is just what I believe, you know, go off 575 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:42,880 Speaker 3: of what we believe, because what we believe is not. 576 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 4: Necessarily rooted in the facts. 577 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 3: And oftentimes white people want to say, oh, well, that's 578 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 3: just how I was taught, that's just what I what 579 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 3: I know, and it's just yeah, well what you were 580 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 3: taught isn't really accurate either, and so you until you. 581 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 4: Can unlearn, you know, Lauren Heill told. 582 00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 3: Us best the Miseducation of Laura. We have to unlearn 583 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,919 Speaker 3: everything that we've been miseducated about. And so when we 584 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 3: do that with humility and without defensiveness, you really can't 585 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 3: go wrong. It's just a matter of the other person 586 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 3: going to also come with that same energy. You know, 587 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 3: both people have to be willing to come from that perspective. 588 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 2: Amen to that engineering. Again, I just want to thank 589 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 2: you for having the courage to text Don because I 590 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 2: was thinking to myself, like imagine, I was like, I 591 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 2: wonder if I would have been on a podcast. It's 592 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 2: something someone said something like after there was like an 593 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:31,640 Speaker 2: after show that I wasn't aware of and I heard 594 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 2: something and it was like, well, do you do right, 595 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 2: because you could have been like, yo, we're gonna boycott 596 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 2: her space, cancel her space, like we gotta do it anywhere, 597 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 2: and we would have been thinking that what we said 598 00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 2: was fine and could have potentially perpetuated that in the future. 599 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 2: But I mean, this has just been such a really 600 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 2: cool and humbly experience and definitely not super comfortable, right, Like, 601 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 2: this is not like, oh yeah, I can just do 602 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 2: this ever Tuesday, you know, it's like or ever Friday 603 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 2: or whatever. It's like, No, this is this is a growth, 604 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 2: a point of growth, and some times growth is not comfortable. 605 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 2: So it can be a little painful, right it It's 606 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,120 Speaker 2: like you're stretching yourself. But it's so good, and I 607 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 2: think this is so valuable for our community. 608 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 1: And I will kind of jump in and offer my 609 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 1: perspective a little bit too, because I was technically the 610 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: person literally the person in the middle, right, And I 611 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: can imagine that, you know, for other people, like for myself, 612 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: being the person in the middle is a little awkward, 613 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: right because Okay, so Janina hit me up and I'm 614 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: reading this and I'm like, oh shit, okay, all right, 615 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: well this does need this needs to be addressed. Okay, 616 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 1: so I have to take a moment and figure out, okay, well, 617 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: exactly how am I going to address this? 618 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 2: Right? 619 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: And because I'm the one the common link, so I 620 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: know both people and trying to figure out, okay, well, 621 00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: how are we going to do this and making sure 622 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: because I know both of you, and I know that 623 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: neither of you come from places of ill intention, right, 624 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: and I know that both of you have a way 625 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: of communicating with people, particularly if there's a conflict that 626 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: I felt comfortable saying, Okay, yes, let's have this. Let's 627 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: have a dialogue between all of us and not just 628 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: keep it with I'm passing messages back and forth. And 629 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: so I think for other people it's you know, when 630 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: they find themselves in the middle to really like take 631 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: that initiative and say, okay, wait, let me figure out 632 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: how to bridge this gap, how to bring both parties 633 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: together to really have this dialogue. Because I could have said, 634 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 1: you know what, Janina's given me this information, I could 635 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: have kept it to myself, right, or I could have 636 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: taken the information brought to you Terry and said, well, 637 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: here's what it is. Here's what Janina said. Well, we're 638 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: gonna keep it moving. 639 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 4: You know, that was. 640 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: Great that she provided feedback for us, but we're gonna 641 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: keep going. And I could have chosen not to suggest 642 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: that we address it. And so I think for each 643 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 1: person involved, it took a level of courage, It took love, 644 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: and it took willingness to really want to do the work. 645 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 2: Absolutely that you said, that's so beautiful, Domina. I think 646 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,200 Speaker 2: the last thing I just want to say around this 647 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 2: is sometimes it really requires us to take off our 648 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 2: lens and put on someone else's lens, like put all 649 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 2: the shit, you know, aside, because we've learned so much bullshit, 650 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 2: Like there's so much we have to do an episode 651 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 2: about that. Like we've learned so much stuff. We've been 652 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 2: programmed in so many ways, and some of the shit 653 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 2: we've learned, like the old school remedies and superstitions, a 654 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 2: lot of that shit is not true. And it's like, 655 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 2: if you hold on to that for dear life and 656 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 2: you're not open to anything else, you won't be able 657 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 2: to grow and evolve, right, and you'll be left behind 658 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 2: because things will be progressing and growing without even so 659 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 2: I think sometimes we really have to take off our lens, 660 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 2: but that shit over there put on someone else's and 661 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 2: really see life and experience through their lens right, so 662 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 2: that you can truly see it and not sort of 663 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 2: hold on to what you have and when you've brought 664 00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 2: to the table right. 665 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 3: But that's so hard for so many people, especially older 666 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 3: black people. 667 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 4: I mean there's some young ones too. I'm not gonna lie. 668 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 3: Some young people come through real stuck in their problematic ways. 669 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 3: And that's always the hard word is like how do 670 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 3: we get those people right? 671 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 4: Because we always talk about, oh, well, you're preaching to 672 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 4: the choir. 673 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 3: We end up having these good, fruitful conversations with people 674 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 3: who are willing. 675 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 4: To do the work. 676 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 3: The problem is how do we get to the people 677 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 3: who are not willing to do the work right? And 678 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 3: that's how And this is what I mentioned in the episode, 679 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 3: is like we have to hold each other accountable. People 680 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 3: have to be willing to kind of lean into that 681 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 3: discomfort and call people out. And that's something that kind 682 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 3: of mentioned to go too. Is you know I pointed 683 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 3: out to her or she noticed herself. I can't remember 684 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 3: which dom. You could correct me if I'm wrong. And 685 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 3: edit this out. But how there were moments, There were 686 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 3: moments when Dom could have also let Terry know in 687 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 3: the moment during the original recording that maybe something wasn't 688 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 3: right or that that you all could have addressed it 689 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 3: in that moment, right, And that could have also been 690 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 3: super powerful, because that was one thing that I talked 691 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 3: about on the original episode is that you know, we 692 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 3: have to hold each other accountable and when we notice 693 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 3: that someone is using language that's not productive to the 694 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 3: well being of black LGBTQ people, we got to call them. 695 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 4: Out and we have to let them know right right. 696 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, it was me because I said, 697 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 1: I was re listening to the episode and I said, oh, 698 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: I see where I could have said, let's let's let's 699 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: pause and let's address this wait, or say wait, Terry, wait, 700 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: let me clarify, like what was really going on here? 701 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: Like what are you really trying to communicate here? 702 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And it's important for us, you know, to 703 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 3: do it in those moments. But then also too, you know, 704 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 3: like we said, we're all the work in progress, and 705 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 3: so you know, Goma, I don't know what your experience 706 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,720 Speaker 3: has been like having to challenge people and know GBTQ stuff, 707 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 3: you know, and so like maybe for you in that moment, 708 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 3: you might not have pieced it, or you're like, maybe 709 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 3: i'll talk to her later, or maybe you didn't notice. 710 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 4: It at all. 711 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 3: But like, like what they're saying, the whole point is 712 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 3: like we noticed it, we acknowledge it, we are now 713 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 3: communicating about it, and now you all can do better, 714 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,720 Speaker 3: and now your listeners can do better as well. 715 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: Yes, and so again, thank you so much Janina for 716 00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: being willing to come on again and help us dive 717 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: into this this much needed follow up conversation. 718 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 2: Thank you, Janina. I guess we said you were gonna 719 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:55,839 Speaker 2: be on again. We didn't expect it to be this soon, 720 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:56,600 Speaker 2: but here we go. 721 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,800 Speaker 4: So we appreciate it. This song soon. 722 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us today in her space. Please note 723 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: that our show may contain conversations about self help, advice, 724 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,880 Speaker 1: self empowerment, and mental health, but it is by no 725 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: means meant to be a substitute for an ongoing formal 726 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: relationship with a trained mental health provider. If you or 727 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: someone you know is in need of mental health care, 728 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: please visit the Therapy for Black Girls directory Psychology today 729 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,840 Speaker 1: or contact your insurance provider. 730 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 2: If you liked what you heard and want to keep 731 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 2: the conversation going, connect with us on Facebook, Instagram, and 732 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 2: Twitter at her space podcast or check out our website 733 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 2: at herspacepodcast dot com. And before we meet again, repeat 734 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 2: after me I released what no longer serves Me to 735 00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 2: manifest what I desire. 736 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us. We will see you next week. 737 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 2: Lady