WEBVTT - Part Two: Muhammad Ali Risked It All to Stop a War 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:02.640 Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, a 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:04.600 history podcast that does what it says in the title. 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:07.560 I'm your host, Margaret kilj It with me todays I 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:08.119 and Johnson. 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.119 Hi yan, Hey Margaret, how are you? 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:15.320 I'm doing all right? Our producer Sophie Oh, I guess 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:18.320 I should say who you are? Ian as an audio engineer. 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:20.159 You do other stuff too? How come this? 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:24.480 He's also one half of the d He's DJ Gladiator 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:27.760 with our boy DJ Daniel, also on the Cool Zone 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:30.720 medio team. We have the full Gladiator, which is something 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:34.320 I like to say as often as legally allowed. You 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.480 do say, I say it as many times as I can. 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:42.000 Yeah, But yeah, you know, my main my main gig 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:46.680 is chopping up these podcasts. Recently got into tennis. That's 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:51.200 been fun. Yeah, and uh yeah, I do love to DJ. 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:52.640 That's it's a lot of fun. 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:56.560 So, yeah, are you gonna make a DJ controller that's 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.000 like a tennis racket and then it's like MIDI based 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:00.960 on where the height and. 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.200 No, that's that's a little beyond that's a little bit 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:09.319 beyond my my scope, you know, the engineering side of it. 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:10.839 That's I'll leave that to someone else. 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:17.679 Fine, okay. Our producer Sophie, Hi, Sophie, how you doing? 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:20.640 My dog has to have surgery. I am sad, but 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:26.720 I am okay. I am holding on bye bye by 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:27.520 small amount. 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:32.640 But every time bad stuff happens to my friend's dogs, 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:34.800 I just like go out and hug grintraw. That's what 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:35.600 you're supposed to do. 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:37.720 Yeah, that's appropriate response. 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.840 My my least my least favorite thing about UH social 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:45.320 media is when you randomly see sad animal ship without 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:46.679 your consent, Like. 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:48.720 How would people do that? 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:52.040 TikTok is pretty bad about it, Like it's it's like 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:56.000 you're like scrolling, You're like, ah, disassociation, and you see 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:57.520 like cute animal things and it all of a sudden 0:01:57.920 --> 0:01:59.560 it's like, no, I don't want to see some sad 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:07.040 dog it no wants nobody wants to see that anyways. Sorry, 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:10.560 this is cool people, cool stuff. Our theme songs by 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:14.680 young woman Ian edits it. I produce it, Margaret writes 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:17.320 research and hosts it. And this week we're talking about 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:18.080 Muhammad Ali. 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:20.760 Yeah I did it. 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:23.960 Hell yeah. This week we're talking about Momhammed Ali, one 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:26.919 of the greatest athletes, says that I know, but it's 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:28.440 a script and like, how am I going to start 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:29.399 the second half of those? 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:32.040 Fair enough? That's a good point. 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:35.680 My My main move is to say things off script 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:37.640 and then still have to read them later in the script. 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:38.960 That's like, that's what that is. 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:40.400 That is that's classic. 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:43.960 Wait, because I'm like, I don't know how to I 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:45.360 can't on the fly edit it. 0:02:46.400 --> 0:02:48.359 Is there any TV in this episode? 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:53.239 There is no tuberculosis in this entire episode? 0:02:57.840 --> 0:02:58.200 You know what? 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.200 I'll take? Can some over dianetics? 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:08.680 Yes, every time, really thoroughly, because there's antibiotics for that shit. 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:12.880 Yeah, But Muhammad A Lee gets out way before dianetics 0:03:12.919 --> 0:03:17.880 kick in, so this this episode will be entirely free 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:22.359 of that. So first episode we talked mostly about the 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:24.480 Nation of Islam, the religion of movement he spent most 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:26.440 of his boxing career, and today we're gonna talk about 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:30.320 the man himself. Muhammad Ali was born Cassius Clay. I 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:32.520 thought about not using that name, and then I realized 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.200 he uses it himself in his books to talk about 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:37.360 when he was younger. But it was a whole thing 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:41.280 where people would like basically dead name him constantly just 0:03:41.320 --> 0:03:45.480 to be a fucking dick to him and his name 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:49.240 is Muhammad Ali. He was born on January seventeenth, nineteen 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:53.040 forty two, in Louisville, Kentucky. His father was a painter. 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:56.120 He usually gets called a sign painter and that's his job, 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:59.080 but he he was a painter. He painted a ton 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:03.720 of a ton of murals, a ton of paintings. His 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:07.360 mother was a domestic Unlike Jack before him, he was 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:12.080 deeply impersonally affected by segregation as a kid. Like literally 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:15.680 once he's like waiting at a bus stop and he 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:17.840 needs water and he's like this is like when he's 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:19.680 like so young, he can't even remember this, and his 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:21.800 mom like takes him in to get a couple of water, 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:23.720 and they're like, no, we're not giving your kid a 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:29.320 cup of water, you know, Okay, yeah, I don't know 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:35.920 if you knew this, but segregation's bad. He was dyslexic. 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:39.360 He struggled in school. His family was Baptist and went 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.280 to church every Sunday, and his father painted a lot 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:44.320 of the murals in the church and every other Baptist 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:47.279 church in the city. Although actually I read that, but 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:49.440 also the fact that his father was Methodist and they 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:52.720 went to his mother's Baptist church, but you know whatever. 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:56.240 He speaks well of his parents and his childhood and 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:58.279 his specifically, one of the things he talks about is 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:00.720 his father wasn't afraid to show affection to his children. 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:02.400 Oh that's nice. 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:06.680 And yeah. And then he had his favorite game that 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:10.839 he liked playing as a kid. His favorite game was 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:13.799 trying not to get hit by rocks. 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:16.160 Oh okay, okay. 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:20.039 Specifically, his favorite game was have his younger brother throw 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:23.080 rocks at him and see if he could dodge them. 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.120 Oh, is this how he developed the footwork and the 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.360 Oh yeah, okay, I see okay, Yeah, it's coming together. 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:30.520 Oh yeah. 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:32.520 So if you want to toughen up your kid, just 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:34.200 get them to get him into dodge rock. 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:36.720 You know, dodge Rock. 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:42.920 That's great. So one day, as the story goes, and 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.120 I don't have a counter argument to the story. It's 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.839 actually the story. This is the story, he says to himself. 0:05:48.200 --> 0:05:51.600 Young Muhammad, he's twelve years old. He had his bike stolen. 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:54.080 It's his prized possession. It was not a cheap bike. 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.159 It was a red and white Shwin and he wanted 0:05:57.200 --> 0:06:00.440 to go find a cop to report it stolen. And 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:02.480 he heard that this white cop named Joe Martin might 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:04.760 be able to help him who ran a boxing jim. 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.400 So he shows up a Joe's boxing Jim and is like, 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:09.680 you should help me find that kid so I can 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:13.480 beat him up. And there's like two versions of this, 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:15.520 and one is the cop is like, hey, why not 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.400 learn to box before you go beat him up? So 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:20.200 you're better at beating him up. And there's another version 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.560 that's like the cop and everyone else is like, oh God, 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:24.160 if the kid who stole your bike is a white kid, 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:26.080 you're gonna end up dead. Like, let's just try and 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:29.360 get you to not go hunt down your bike. Right, 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:35.440 So cameo buy a cop who did something good? Rare, 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:43.800 I know, especially Louisville, Kentucky, nineteen fifty four. White CoP's unexpected. 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:44.960 Yeah. 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:49.080 So he starts boxing and he's really fucking good at it. 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:52.120 And he's really good at it partly because he just 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:55.480 like sets his mind to it. There's like natural talent. 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:57.560 But he talks a lot about how it's like, no, 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.120 it's that he trained six days a week and you know, 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:04.920 he grew up playing dodge rock and boxing kept him 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.800 out of trouble on away from drinking and smoking. He 0:07:07.839 --> 0:07:10.240 got his first fight really quick after that. In nineteen 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:14.440 fifty four, he's still twelve, he has ninety pounds. His 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:18.760 opponent is bigger and taller and white, and little Ali 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:21.960 is like afraid, and his dad's like, nah, go whop 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.280 that white kid's ass. It's great, like you're in the ring, 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.640 you know. Little Ali won. He went on to win 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:32.360 a lot And one of the stories that I really 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:36.240 like is that he tracked down the neighborhood bully. There's 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:41.520 this kid named Corky Baker and the first time Ali saw, yeah, quirky. 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:46.120 Yeah, that's like a nineteen fifty ass name. Okay, yeah yeah. 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:48.600 And to make it as nineteen fifties as possible, the 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:52.880 first time Ali saw Quirky, Muhammadli at least describes it 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:56.040 this way. Krky was holding a football player upside down 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.440 and shaking him for loose change. 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:02.000 Classic yeah yeah. 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:06.160 And everyone was always afraid of Corky Baker, but Muhammad Ali, 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:08.240 I would say, not Muhammad Ali, but no, he was afraid, 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:12.000 but Muhammad Ali believed in doing what he was afraid of. 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:15.640 So Ali challenged him to a fight. But he was like, 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:17.680 I'm not gonna fight you here in the streets. I'm 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:20.440 gonna fight you in the ring, and Corky was basically like, 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:23.200 boxing's for sissy's. But everyone on the streets starts calling him. 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:25.679 This is straight up just I'm just describing a nineteen 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:29.800 fifties movie. Yeah, but everyone around him starts calling him 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.080 a coward, and so he gives in and he fights 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:34.760 Ali in the ring. And it was a title match. 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:39.640 The title was King of the Street. Whoever wins is 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:44.720 King of the Street. It's two rounds. Quirky never lands 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.880 a single punch. After two rounds of the black eye, 0:08:47.920 --> 0:08:51.160 Corky says literally, this ain't fair and runs off like 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:51.640 just like. 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:57.520 Not Quirky, saying this ain't fair. Okay, yeah, Corky, I 0:08:57.640 --> 0:08:59.760 know shit I could take. 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:05.480 He would probably take Quirky. After this, Ali and his 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.840 friends and all the neighborhood kids run down the street chanting, 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.000 We're free, We're free. Long live the King were free. 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:13.640 That's awesome. 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:19.719 Yeah, and Corky gets a redemption arc. So after this, 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:23.040 Corky stops fucking with people he like, stops being a bully. 0:09:24.040 --> 0:09:27.160 And this is a huge life lesson for young Ali. 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:29.560 If you stand up to bullies, you stand up, you 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:31.079 stand up to them. And you stand up to them 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:35.720 for yourself and everyone else. He winds up befriending Quirky. 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:38.600 They don't become tight, but they stay in touch until 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:41.000 years later when Corky dies in a shootout with the cops. 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:45.640 Oh god, I know, it was so great and then 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:47.640 it got so bad. I know, I know. 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.920 When he was eighteen, not Quirky. But when Muhammad Ali 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:57.720 was eighteen, he goes to the fucking Olympics in Rome 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:02.520 and he's afraid to fly. He'd only flown twice before. 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.520 This is like his big fear besides Corky, and he's 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.480 conquered that fear. He's afraid to fly. He's only flown 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:10.679 twice before. He flew to California and back for the 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:14.280 Olympic trials. He was so afraid that he wasn't going 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:18.040 to go. But his father's advice quote always confront the 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:21.240 things that you fear, got to him, and with a 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:25.280 good fatherly pep talk, he goes out and buys a 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:31.520 parachute and brings the parachute on the plane because he 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:34.280 is a prepper king, that is all I'm saying. So 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:36.760 he goes to Rome and he wins the gold medal 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.040 for yeah, I didn't write it into the script. It's 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:42.960 it's the lighter than heavyweight. It's the like light heavyweight 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:43.440 or something. 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:46.360 Was it like, yeah, like light heavyweight, or there's like 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:47.680 welter weight, or. 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:49.679 It wasn't welter weight because I remember that was as 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:53.680 a funny name. Okay, so light heavyweight is probably yeah, 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.760 does that make sense? Yeah, I think welterweight was when 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:00.680 I was the like brief time I was learning boxing, 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:02.280 I think I was welterweight, but I can't remember. 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:07.000 He got a gold medal at eighteen for light heavyweight 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:10.520 division at the nineteen sixties Summer Olympics. 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.640 Check by the producer. 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:16.920 Yeah, excellent. 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:20.960 So he comes back and he thinks, he's like, oh, 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:24.199 I'm good. Racism will not be able to stand up 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:26.880 to this fucking gold medal because he comes back and 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:30.760 there's like when he shows up in Louisville, there's crowds 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:32.880 of black people and white people cheering for him. The 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.400 mayor takes him as like, this is the key to 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:37.880 the city. The gold medal is mayor doesn't give him 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:38.439 a different key. 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:40.800 He's a hometown hero. Yeah. 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.400 Yeah, except there's a problem. 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:47.479 The problem in America. 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:53.439 Yeah, yeah, even while he's in Rome, a Soviet interviewer 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:55.679 comes up. It gets in a really sick burn. The 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.679 Soviet is like, so, how does it feel to have 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:00.680 like won a medal for a cut tree that won't 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:01.839 let you eat it in restaurants? 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:06.360 Hmm yeah and uh. 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:08.720 And so he goes and he's home and he wears 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.920 the gold medal everywhere. He's like fucking he showers with it. 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.560 It's like causing back problems because he's like sleeping with 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:16.960 it on and it like, you know, yeah. 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.800 I would do the same thing, and I just want 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:22.640 a gold medal. Yeah, I would never take yeah. Yeah. 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:25.800 One day, he and a friend try to eat at 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.800 a diner and the waitress says, we don't serve negroes, 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:33.840 and he responded, well, we don't eat them either. Oh 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.680 that's good, I know, which is how you know he's 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:38.240 going to grow up to be a dad, because he's 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:39.160 got them dad jokes. 0:12:39.760 --> 0:12:39.920 Lock. 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.240 Yeah. And there's a couple of different versions of the 0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:48.040 He writes a lot of what I'm saying is like 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:51.440 from his own autobiography, but other people, including his friends, 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:53.640 have said that he lies in his autobiography in order 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:56.880 to like say his friends have said things like, damn 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:59.679 those honkeys, WI believe anything you tell him, and they 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.760 said that specifically around he says that he got so 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.080 mad that he threw his gold medal into the river. 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.559 Okay, yeah, that's like the common story that I've heard. 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:12.280 Yeah, and you know, and that story comes from him, 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.840 But one of his friends later was like, no, like 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:20.240 that's not true either way. Up to that point, he 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.560 wore the medal every moment of his life. Afterwards, he 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:25.520 realized it's just a material object. He starts taking it off. 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:28.960 After winning the gold medal. He starts his professional career. 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:34.040 And I don't know if you knew this, he's really 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:34.960 good at boxing. 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:37.200 I had heard that. 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:41.400 Yeah, yeah, like some sort of superlative I think. So 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.880 he wins a lot, and he usually wins by knockout. 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.240 Of his first nineteen fights, which he won all of 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:52.400 he won fifteen of them by knockout. 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.359 Wow. Yeah. 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:57.240 And one of his whole things is that he's like, 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:00.360 you can't fucking hit him, and so he got that 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.720 famous line, float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:05.800 He he dodges more than he blocks, and then he 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:07.000 hits really fucking hard. 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:08.880 It's all that Dodge rock. 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:12.720 Yeah, it's really like poetic and arn'tful the way that 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:14.680 that he performs it. 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:20.440 Yeah. I I like watching boxing honestly, Like I like 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:24.800 watching for all the like, I have this whole thing 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:26.200 where it's like the only reason I don't know sports 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:27.800 is that I don't know pop culture. It's like not 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.280 actually like sports are actually really fucking cool. Yeah, pop 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:33.080 culture could be really fucking cool too. I'm not trying 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:34.760 to just I like watching. 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:36.680 Yeah, I also. 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:39.280 I like I like in like the fighting sports, the 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:43.840 walkins when they walk into the to the arena. Itash. 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:48.840 It's hard if that doesn't get you hyped, Like what, Yeah, well, 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:52.040 do you want to know where he got his showman 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.440 walkins and attitude from? 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:56.280 Because it's the next paragraph in the script? 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:56.960 Is it? No? 0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:57.600 Is it? 0:14:57.680 --> 0:14:58.160 Actually? 0:14:58.320 --> 0:14:58.560 Is it? 0:14:58.640 --> 0:14:58.960 Actually? 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:03.400 Because I was just I was just talking it is yep? 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:09.640 Fuck yeah really on my game today. Yeah. 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:13.680 So he's an incredible boxer, he's also an incredible showman. 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:16.840 And he learned this and he talks about this a lot. 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:20.520 He met this guy named gorgeous George. You'll ever seen 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:27.520 gorgeous George. No, Gorgeous George is like he's the first 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:34.680 professional wrestler who does the villain heel, who like you 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.880 just want to hit because he's so smart. Yes, yes, 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:42.440 Gorgeous George is a flamboyant wrestler who was as effeminate 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:45.800 as possible. He kept his hair bleached blonde and long 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.520 and pinned up in gold plated bobby pins, which he 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:54.200 distributed to his fans and called Georgie pins. He marched 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.520 to the ring to that graduation song, Pomp and Circumstance, 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:00.960 like no, I can't do it. It's out of my head. 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:04.640 As soon as I tried, Sophie, can you sing pomp 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:05.320 and circumstance? 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:10.920 Oh, I just started thinking of like vitamin C graduation 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:13.120 And now that's the only thing playing in my head. 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.480 I get sing that. I don't even know what it is. 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:24.920 That's okay, Well is that we'll play for you after? Yeah? Okay, thanks. 0:16:25.040 --> 0:16:27.720 Mark had always tricks me into singing. Nobody else can 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:34.720 do that. So he marches into the graduation song with 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:37.960 people throwing rose petals. He gets up on into the 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:42.920 ring and he disinfects it with Chanelle number five, which 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.360 is completely unproblematic, and there's no other podcast that explores 0:16:46.400 --> 0:16:51.040 the problematic history of Chanel. There's that behind the bastards 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:55.440 talking about this anyway, And he talks crazy shit on 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:59.600 his opponents, and he brings in the crowds because people 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:03.480 want to see him get beat up, Like yes, because 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:06.120 he and so half of them come to jeer him, 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:08.840 but they come and they buy tickets, and so this 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.120 is how he learns that, Like, this is how Muhammad 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:13.840 Ali learns, like if people hate you, you still make 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:15.879 money off the people who hate you. 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:18.560 The heat is good, The heat is good. 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:22.400 That's basically the strategy of like every UFC situation. 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.280 Yeah, and so that's where this comes from. Is gorgeous 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:32.920 George the all but a drag queen, like the tightest 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:36.680 line between gorgeous George and a drag queen and Muhammad 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:40.840 Ali fucking love gorgeous George and so and he's like, look, 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:43.640 half of Muhammad Ali used it as like, OK, right, 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:45.360 I'm drawing in crowds and half of the angry white 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:48.680 people want to see me lose. But that's fine. All 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.320 the racists can just give me their money. That's not 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:52.240 a problem for me. 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.040 Right. It reminds me of like when people in like 0:17:56.080 --> 0:18:00.280 the nineties were like burning all those nwacds likews hey, 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.080 they paid for him, like I don't care what they 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:03.080 do with them after. 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:05.960 I know, And then it's just more publicity, is like 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:13.879 exactly exactly, And so during this showman stage, he's already 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:15.760 started to do some poetry. When he gets off of 0:18:15.800 --> 0:18:18.240 the plane with the gold medal is the first time 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:23.080 he publicly recites a poem. But part of his showman 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:27.240 thing is his poetry. He's basically rapping, and a lot 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.199 of sources will call him the first rapper, although the 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:30.880 first of any of that kind of sort of thing 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:36.520 is impossible to really know, right, He writes dis poetry 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:40.119 and he recites it constantly, and he constantly belittles his opponents, 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:44.960 and he talks himself up, and this is like part 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:48.040 of why he matters, because he didn't fucking make himself 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:51.800 small for white people. He also, and I love this 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:55.520 about him, constantly talked about how pretty he was. He'd say, 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:57.560 I'm as pretty as a girl. He'd say, I'm handsome, 0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.920 I'm fast, I'm pretty, and I can't possibly be beat. 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:06.399 And part of that talking is the reason he's so pretty. 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:08.439 When he's saying I'm so pretty, he's saying because no 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.959 one can punch me in my face. I'm too fast. 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:14.240 Yeah. 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:17.240 He also started making predictions about his fights, and he 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:21.679 would encode them into poetry, like when you come to 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:23.960 the fight, don't block the aisles, and don't block the 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:26.680 door where you all may go home. After round four, 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:31.880 when he would make these predictions, he got seventeen out 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:36.119 of twenty one of them right about. That's what round 0:19:36.160 --> 0:19:36.640 he would win. 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:37.040 Yeah. 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:41.960 Yeah, Like people started betting based on his predictions that 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:44.360 he would win in whatever round he said he would win. 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.760 Did you talked about them demoralizing? That is somebody's like, 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:51.360 I'm going to knock you out in the third round, 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:53.320 and then they actually do it, and then you're just like, 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:57.439 well shit, I know you know what's coming, and he 0:19:57.640 --> 0:19:58.560 still happens. 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.680 I know I would to fight it. I mean I 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:03.439 wouldn't actually, because like one of the things that he 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:07.200 talks about is that he considered his boxing like very scientific. 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:10.440 He was not the largest, he didn't have the furthest reach, 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:13.640 he was not the strongest, he didn't have the best 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:15.879 knockout punch. He had a very good knockout punch, but 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:19.800 he considered himself like a scientific boxer. He would like 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:21.000 study it, you know. 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:23.960 Yeah, he was more like strategic and the tactical side 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:24.240 of it. 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:28.399 Maybe yeah, yeah. And one of the things that was 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:33.400 part of his strategy was don't try to hurt your opponent. 0:20:34.359 --> 0:20:38.199 He talked about how like, if you're winning, don't just 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:42.280 like damage someone just because you can. And that's interesting. 0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:45.520 I never really considered, like, you know, anytime I'm like 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:50.480 sparring or something, I've never prefer like, I've never fought 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:54.000 even an amateur round of just practiced, you know, and 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:55.760 like when you're sparring, it's just like, well, I want 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:57.959 to win, right, you know. It's like, oh fuck, I'm 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:00.239 in a fight. I better win this fight. Well, when 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:02.760 you're so fucking good, you can just like actually control 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:06.760 what's happening. I just I'm really impressed by all this shit. 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:10.240 He also got into stage magic, and he joined a 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:14.119 stage magician's union, so he's not just a hero but 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:14.960 a union man. 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:16.760