1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff, a 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: history podcast that does what it says in the title. 3 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: I'm your host, Margaret kilj It with me todays I 4 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: and Johnson. 5 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 2: Hi yan, Hey Margaret, how are you? 6 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: I'm doing all right? Our producer Sophie Oh, I guess 7 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: I should say who you are? Ian as an audio engineer. 8 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:20,159 Speaker 1: You do other stuff too? How come this? 9 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 3: He's also one half of the d He's DJ Gladiator 10 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 3: with our boy DJ Daniel, also on the Cool Zone 11 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 3: medio team. We have the full Gladiator, which is something 12 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 3: I like to say as often as legally allowed. You 13 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 3: do say, I say it as many times as I can. 14 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, But yeah, you know, my main my main gig 15 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 2: is chopping up these podcasts. Recently got into tennis. That's 16 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 2: been fun. Yeah, and uh yeah, I do love to DJ. 17 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 2: That's it's a lot of fun. 18 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 1: So, yeah, are you gonna make a DJ controller that's 19 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: like a tennis racket and then it's like MIDI based 20 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: on where the height and. 21 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 2: No, that's that's a little beyond that's a little bit 22 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 2: beyond my my scope, you know, the engineering side of it. 23 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:10,839 Speaker 2: That's I'll leave that to someone else. 24 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: Fine, okay. Our producer Sophie, Hi, Sophie, how you doing? 25 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 3: My dog has to have surgery. I am sad, but 26 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 3: I am okay. I am holding on bye bye by 27 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 3: small amount. 28 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: But every time bad stuff happens to my friend's dogs, 29 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: I just like go out and hug grintraw. That's what 30 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: you're supposed to do. 31 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's appropriate response. 32 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 3: My my least my least favorite thing about UH social 33 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,320 Speaker 3: media is when you randomly see sad animal ship without 34 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 3: your consent, Like. 35 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: How would people do that? 36 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 3: TikTok is pretty bad about it, Like it's it's like 37 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 3: you're like scrolling, You're like, ah, disassociation, and you see 38 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 3: like cute animal things and it all of a sudden 39 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 3: it's like, no, I don't want to see some sad 40 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 3: dog it no wants nobody wants to see that anyways. Sorry, 41 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 3: this is cool people, cool stuff. Our theme songs by 42 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 3: young woman Ian edits it. I produce it, Margaret writes 43 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 3: research and hosts it. And this week we're talking about 44 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 3: Muhammad Ali. 45 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 2: Yeah I did it. 46 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: Hell yeah. This week we're talking about Momhammed Ali, one 47 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 1: of the greatest athletes, says that I know, but it's 48 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: a script and like, how am I going to start 49 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:29,399 Speaker 1: the second half of those? 50 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: Fair enough? That's a good point. 51 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: My My main move is to say things off script 52 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: and then still have to read them later in the script. 53 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: That's like, that's what that is. 54 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 2: That is that's classic. 55 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 1: Wait, because I'm like, I don't know how to I 56 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: can't on the fly edit it. 57 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 3: Is there any TV in this episode? 58 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 1: There is no tuberculosis in this entire episode? 59 00:02:57,840 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 2: You know what? 60 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: I'll take? Can some over dianetics? 61 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 2: Yes, every time, really thoroughly, because there's antibiotics for that shit. 62 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, But Muhammad A Lee gets out way before dianetics 63 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: kick in, so this this episode will be entirely free 64 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:22,359 Speaker 1: of that. So first episode we talked mostly about the 65 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: Nation of Islam, the religion of movement he spent most 66 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: of his boxing career, and today we're gonna talk about 67 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: the man himself. Muhammad Ali was born Cassius Clay. I 68 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: thought about not using that name, and then I realized 69 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: he uses it himself in his books to talk about 70 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: when he was younger. But it was a whole thing 71 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: where people would like basically dead name him constantly just 72 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: to be a fucking dick to him and his name 73 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: is Muhammad Ali. He was born on January seventeenth, nineteen 74 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: forty two, in Louisville, Kentucky. His father was a painter. 75 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: He usually gets called a sign painter and that's his job, 76 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: but he he was a painter. He painted a ton 77 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: of a ton of murals, a ton of paintings. His 78 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: mother was a domestic Unlike Jack before him, he was 79 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: deeply impersonally affected by segregation as a kid. Like literally 80 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,680 Speaker 1: once he's like waiting at a bus stop and he 81 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: needs water and he's like this is like when he's 82 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: like so young, he can't even remember this, and his 83 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: mom like takes him in to get a couple of water, 84 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: and they're like, no, we're not giving your kid a 85 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: cup of water, you know, Okay, yeah, I don't know 86 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: if you knew this, but segregation's bad. He was dyslexic. 87 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 1: He struggled in school. His family was Baptist and went 88 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 1: to church every Sunday, and his father painted a lot 89 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: of the murals in the church and every other Baptist 90 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 1: church in the city. Although actually I read that, but 91 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: also the fact that his father was Methodist and they 92 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: went to his mother's Baptist church, but you know whatever. 93 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: He speaks well of his parents and his childhood and 94 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: his specifically, one of the things he talks about is 95 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: his father wasn't afraid to show affection to his children. 96 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 2: Oh that's nice. 97 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: And yeah. And then he had his favorite game that 98 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: he liked playing as a kid. His favorite game was 99 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:13,799 Speaker 1: trying not to get hit by rocks. 100 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay. 101 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 1: Specifically, his favorite game was have his younger brother throw 102 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: rocks at him and see if he could dodge them. 103 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 2: Oh, is this how he developed the footwork and the 104 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, I see okay, Yeah, it's coming together. 105 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 2: Oh yeah. 106 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: So if you want to toughen up your kid, just 107 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: get them to get him into dodge rock. 108 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 2: You know, dodge Rock. 109 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: That's great. So one day, as the story goes, and 110 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: I don't have a counter argument to the story. It's 111 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: actually the story. This is the story, he says to himself. 112 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: Young Muhammad, he's twelve years old. He had his bike stolen. 113 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: It's his prized possession. It was not a cheap bike. 114 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 1: It was a red and white Shwin and he wanted 115 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: to go find a cop to report it stolen. And 116 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: he heard that this white cop named Joe Martin might 117 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: be able to help him who ran a boxing jim. 118 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: So he shows up a Joe's boxing Jim and is like, 119 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: you should help me find that kid so I can 120 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: beat him up. And there's like two versions of this, 121 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: and one is the cop is like, hey, why not 122 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: learn to box before you go beat him up? So 123 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: you're better at beating him up. And there's another version 124 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: that's like the cop and everyone else is like, oh God, 125 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: if the kid who stole your bike is a white kid, 126 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: you're gonna end up dead. Like, let's just try and 127 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: get you to not go hunt down your bike. Right, 128 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: So cameo buy a cop who did something good? Rare, 129 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: I know, especially Louisville, Kentucky, nineteen fifty four. White CoP's unexpected. 130 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 131 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: So he starts boxing and he's really fucking good at it. 132 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: And he's really good at it partly because he just 133 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: like sets his mind to it. There's like natural talent. 134 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: But he talks a lot about how it's like, no, 135 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: it's that he trained six days a week and you know, 136 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: he grew up playing dodge rock and boxing kept him 137 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: out of trouble on away from drinking and smoking. He 138 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: got his first fight really quick after that. In nineteen 139 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 1: fifty four, he's still twelve, he has ninety pounds. His 140 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: opponent is bigger and taller and white, and little Ali 141 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: is like afraid, and his dad's like, nah, go whop 142 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: that white kid's ass. It's great, like you're in the ring, 143 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 1: you know. Little Ali won. He went on to win 144 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: a lot And one of the stories that I really 145 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: like is that he tracked down the neighborhood bully. There's 146 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 1: this kid named Corky Baker and the first time Ali saw, yeah, quirky. 147 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like a nineteen fifty ass name. Okay, yeah yeah. 148 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: And to make it as nineteen fifties as possible, the 149 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: first time Ali saw Quirky, Muhammadli at least describes it 150 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: this way. Krky was holding a football player upside down 151 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: and shaking him for loose change. 152 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 2: Classic yeah yeah. 153 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: And everyone was always afraid of Corky Baker, but Muhammad Ali, 154 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: I would say, not Muhammad Ali, but no, he was afraid, 155 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: but Muhammad Ali believed in doing what he was afraid of. 156 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: So Ali challenged him to a fight. But he was like, 157 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna fight you here in the streets. I'm 158 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: gonna fight you in the ring, and Corky was basically like, 159 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: boxing's for sissy's. But everyone on the streets starts calling him. 160 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,679 Speaker 1: This is straight up just I'm just describing a nineteen 161 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: fifties movie. Yeah, but everyone around him starts calling him 162 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: a coward, and so he gives in and he fights 163 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: Ali in the ring. And it was a title match. 164 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: The title was King of the Street. Whoever wins is 165 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: King of the Street. It's two rounds. Quirky never lands 166 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: a single punch. After two rounds of the black eye, 167 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: Corky says literally, this ain't fair and runs off like 168 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: just like. 169 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 3: Not Quirky, saying this ain't fair. Okay, yeah, Corky, I 170 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 3: know shit I could take. 171 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: He would probably take Quirky. After this, Ali and his 172 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: friends and all the neighborhood kids run down the street chanting, 173 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: We're free, We're free. Long live the King were free. 174 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 2: That's awesome. 175 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:19,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Corky gets a redemption arc. So after this, 176 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: Corky stops fucking with people he like, stops being a bully. 177 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: And this is a huge life lesson for young Ali. 178 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: If you stand up to bullies, you stand up, you 179 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 1: stand up to them. And you stand up to them 180 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 1: for yourself and everyone else. He winds up befriending Quirky. 181 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: They don't become tight, but they stay in touch until 182 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 1: years later when Corky dies in a shootout with the cops. 183 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 2: Oh god, I know, it was so great and then 184 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: it got so bad. I know, I know. 185 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: When he was eighteen, not Quirky. But when Muhammad Ali 186 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: was eighteen, he goes to the fucking Olympics in Rome 187 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: and he's afraid to fly. He'd only flown twice before. 188 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: This is like his big fear besides Corky, and he's 189 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: conquered that fear. He's afraid to fly. He's only flown 190 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: twice before. He flew to California and back for the 191 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: Olympic trials. He was so afraid that he wasn't going 192 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: to go. But his father's advice quote always confront the 193 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: things that you fear, got to him, and with a 194 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: good fatherly pep talk, he goes out and buys a 195 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: parachute and brings the parachute on the plane because he 196 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: is a prepper king, that is all I'm saying. So 197 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: he goes to Rome and he wins the gold medal 198 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: for yeah, I didn't write it into the script. It's 199 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: it's the lighter than heavyweight. It's the like light heavyweight 200 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: or something. 201 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 2: Was it like, yeah, like light heavyweight, or there's like 202 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 2: welter weight, or. 203 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 1: It wasn't welter weight because I remember that was as 204 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: a funny name. Okay, so light heavyweight is probably yeah, 205 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 1: does that make sense? Yeah, I think welterweight was when 206 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: I was the like brief time I was learning boxing, 207 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: I think I was welterweight, but I can't remember. 208 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 3: He got a gold medal at eighteen for light heavyweight 209 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 3: division at the nineteen sixties Summer Olympics. 210 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: Check by the producer. 211 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, excellent. 212 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: So he comes back and he thinks, he's like, oh, 213 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,199 Speaker 1: I'm good. Racism will not be able to stand up 214 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: to this fucking gold medal because he comes back and 215 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: there's like when he shows up in Louisville, there's crowds 216 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: of black people and white people cheering for him. The 217 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: mayor takes him as like, this is the key to 218 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: the city. The gold medal is mayor doesn't give him 219 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 1: a different key. 220 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 2: He's a hometown hero. Yeah. 221 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, except there's a problem. 222 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:47,479 Speaker 2: The problem in America. 223 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, even while he's in Rome, a Soviet interviewer 224 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 1: comes up. It gets in a really sick burn. The 225 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: Soviet is like, so, how does it feel to have 226 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: like won a medal for a cut tree that won't 227 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:01,839 Speaker 1: let you eat it in restaurants? 228 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 2: Hmm yeah and uh. 229 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: And so he goes and he's home and he wears 230 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: the gold medal everywhere. He's like fucking he showers with it. 231 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: It's like causing back problems because he's like sleeping with 232 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: it on and it like, you know, yeah. 233 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 2: I would do the same thing, and I just want 234 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 2: a gold medal. Yeah, I would never take yeah. Yeah. 235 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 1: One day, he and a friend try to eat at 236 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: a diner and the waitress says, we don't serve negroes, 237 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: and he responded, well, we don't eat them either. Oh 238 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: that's good, I know, which is how you know he's 239 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: going to grow up to be a dad, because he's 240 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: got them dad jokes. 241 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 2: Lock. 242 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. And there's a couple of different versions of the 243 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 1: He writes a lot of what I'm saying is like 244 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: from his own autobiography, but other people, including his friends, 245 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: have said that he lies in his autobiography in order 246 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: to like say his friends have said things like, damn 247 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 1: those honkeys, WI believe anything you tell him, and they 248 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: said that specifically around he says that he got so 249 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: mad that he threw his gold medal into the river. 250 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that's like the common story that I've heard. 251 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, and that story comes from him, 252 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: But one of his friends later was like, no, like 253 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: that's not true either way. Up to that point, he 254 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: wore the medal every moment of his life. Afterwards, he 255 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: realized it's just a material object. He starts taking it off. 256 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: After winning the gold medal. He starts his professional career. 257 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: And I don't know if you knew this, he's really 258 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: good at boxing. 259 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 2: I had heard that. 260 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like some sort of superlative I think. So 261 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: he wins a lot, and he usually wins by knockout. 262 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: Of his first nineteen fights, which he won all of 263 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: he won fifteen of them by knockout. 264 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:55,359 Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah. 265 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: And one of his whole things is that he's like, 266 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: you can't fucking hit him, and so he got that 267 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: famous line, float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. 268 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: He he dodges more than he blocks, and then he 269 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: hits really fucking hard. 270 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 2: It's all that Dodge rock. 271 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really like poetic and arn'tful the way that 272 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 3: that he performs it. 273 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. I I like watching boxing honestly, Like I like 274 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: watching for all the like, I have this whole thing 275 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: where it's like the only reason I don't know sports 276 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: is that I don't know pop culture. It's like not 277 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: actually like sports are actually really fucking cool. Yeah, pop 278 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: culture could be really fucking cool too. I'm not trying 279 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: to just I like watching. 280 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I also. 281 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 3: I like I like in like the fighting sports, the 282 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 3: walkins when they walk into the to the arena. Itash. 283 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 2: It's hard if that doesn't get you hyped, Like what, Yeah, well, 284 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 2: do you want to know where he got his showman 285 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 2: walkins and attitude from? 286 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: Because it's the next paragraph in the script? 287 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 3: Is it? No? 288 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 2: Is it? 289 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 3: Actually? 290 00:14:58,320 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 4: Is it? 291 00:14:58,640 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: Actually? 292 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 5: Because I was just I was just talking it is yep? 293 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 5: Fuck yeah really on my game today. Yeah. 294 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: So he's an incredible boxer, he's also an incredible showman. 295 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: And he learned this and he talks about this a lot. 296 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: He met this guy named gorgeous George. You'll ever seen 297 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: gorgeous George. No, Gorgeous George is like he's the first 298 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: professional wrestler who does the villain heel, who like you 299 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: just want to hit because he's so smart. Yes, yes, 300 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: Gorgeous George is a flamboyant wrestler who was as effeminate 301 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: as possible. He kept his hair bleached blonde and long 302 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: and pinned up in gold plated bobby pins, which he 303 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: distributed to his fans and called Georgie pins. He marched 304 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: to the ring to that graduation song, Pomp and Circumstance, 305 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: like no, I can't do it. It's out of my head. 306 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: As soon as I tried, Sophie, can you sing pomp 307 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: and circumstance? 308 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 2: Oh, I just started thinking of like vitamin C graduation 309 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 2: And now that's the only thing playing in my head. 310 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: I get sing that. I don't even know what it is. 311 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: That's okay, Well is that we'll play for you after? Yeah? Okay, thanks. 312 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: Mark had always tricks me into singing. Nobody else can 313 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: do that. So he marches into the graduation song with 314 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: people throwing rose petals. He gets up on into the 315 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: ring and he disinfects it with Chanelle number five, which 316 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: is completely unproblematic, and there's no other podcast that explores 317 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: the problematic history of Chanel. There's that behind the bastards 318 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: talking about this anyway, And he talks crazy shit on 319 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: his opponents, and he brings in the crowds because people 320 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: want to see him get beat up, Like yes, because 321 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,120 Speaker 1: he and so half of them come to jeer him, 322 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: but they come and they buy tickets, and so this 323 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: is how he learns that, Like, this is how Muhammad 324 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: Ali learns, like if people hate you, you still make 325 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: money off the people who hate you. 326 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 2: The heat is good, The heat is good. 327 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 3: That's basically the strategy of like every UFC situation. 328 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and so that's where this comes from. Is gorgeous 329 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: George the all but a drag queen, like the tightest 330 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: line between gorgeous George and a drag queen and Muhammad 331 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: Ali fucking love gorgeous George and so and he's like, look, 332 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: half of Muhammad Ali used it as like, OK, right, 333 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 1: I'm drawing in crowds and half of the angry white 334 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 1: people want to see me lose. But that's fine. All 335 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: the racists can just give me their money. That's not 336 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: a problem for me. 337 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 2: Right. It reminds me of like when people in like 338 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 2: the nineties were like burning all those nwacds likews hey, 339 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 2: they paid for him, like I don't care what they 340 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 2: do with them after. 341 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: I know, And then it's just more publicity, is like 342 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: exactly exactly, And so during this showman stage, he's already 343 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: started to do some poetry. When he gets off of 344 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: the plane with the gold medal is the first time 345 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: he publicly recites a poem. But part of his showman 346 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: thing is his poetry. He's basically rapping, and a lot 347 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,199 Speaker 1: of sources will call him the first rapper, although the 348 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: first of any of that kind of sort of thing 349 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: is impossible to really know, right, He writes dis poetry 350 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 1: and he recites it constantly, and he constantly belittles his opponents, 351 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: and he talks himself up, and this is like part 352 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: of why he matters, because he didn't fucking make himself 353 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: small for white people. He also, and I love this 354 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: about him, constantly talked about how pretty he was. He'd say, 355 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: I'm as pretty as a girl. He'd say, I'm handsome, 356 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: I'm fast, I'm pretty, and I can't possibly be beat. 357 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: And part of that talking is the reason he's so pretty. 358 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 1: When he's saying I'm so pretty, he's saying because no 359 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,959 Speaker 1: one can punch me in my face. I'm too fast. 360 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 361 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: He also started making predictions about his fights, and he 362 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: would encode them into poetry, like when you come to 363 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: the fight, don't block the aisles, and don't block the 364 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:26,680 Speaker 1: door where you all may go home. After round four, 365 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 1: when he would make these predictions, he got seventeen out 366 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: of twenty one of them right about. That's what round 367 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 1: he would win. 368 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 369 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like people started betting based on his predictions that 370 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,360 Speaker 1: he would win in whatever round he said he would win. 371 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 2: Did you talked about them demoralizing? That is somebody's like, 372 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 2: I'm going to knock you out in the third round, 373 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: and then they actually do it, and then you're just like, 374 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:57,439 Speaker 2: well shit, I know you know what's coming, and he 375 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 2: still happens. 376 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,680 Speaker 1: I know I would to fight it. I mean I 377 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: wouldn't actually, because like one of the things that he 378 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 1: talks about is that he considered his boxing like very scientific. 379 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: He was not the largest, he didn't have the furthest reach, 380 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 1: he was not the strongest, he didn't have the best 381 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: knockout punch. He had a very good knockout punch, but 382 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: he considered himself like a scientific boxer. He would like 383 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: study it, you know. 384 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was more like strategic and the tactical side 385 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 2: of it. 386 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 1: Maybe yeah, yeah. And one of the things that was 387 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: part of his strategy was don't try to hurt your opponent. 388 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 1: He talked about how like, if you're winning, don't just 389 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: like damage someone just because you can. And that's interesting. 390 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,520 Speaker 1: I never really considered, like, you know, anytime I'm like 391 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: sparring or something, I've never prefer like, I've never fought 392 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: even an amateur round of just practiced, you know, and 393 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: like when you're sparring, it's just like, well, I want 394 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:57,959 Speaker 1: to win, right, you know. It's like, oh fuck, I'm 395 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,239 Speaker 1: in a fight. I better win this fight. Well, when 396 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: you're so fucking good, you can just like actually control 397 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 1: what's happening. I just I'm really impressed by all this shit. 398 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: He also got into stage magic, and he joined a 399 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 1: stage magician's union, so he's not just a hero but 400 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: a union man. 401 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 2: That's awesome. 402 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: He also consciously talked about how he grew up without 403 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: black role models on TV in the public eye, so 404 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: he's set about to become one. And around this same 405 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: time as he starts his professional career, he gets into 406 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: the Nation of Islam. But before we talk about that, 407 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: we should talk about turtles. Turtles are great. We should 408 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,000 Speaker 1: go back to being sponsored by turtles. 409 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 2: Nice, I love turtles. 410 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, here's some ads for turtles. 411 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 2: And we're back. 412 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: And so at the beginning of his career, he's excited 413 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: about the Nation of Islam, but he he doesn't have 414 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: the means to join it. And actually, one thing I 415 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: read is that they weren't sure about accepting a boxer, 416 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: but I wasn't able to find out more information about 417 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: specifically that. I'm sure that information exists, but there's someone 418 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: referred to it as like the professional athlete with the 419 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,959 Speaker 1: most words written about them in history, you know, like 420 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: people have talked a lot about Muhammad Ali because he's 421 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: fucking cool and worth talking about. In nineteen fifty nine, 422 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: he learns about the Nation of Islam and he gets 423 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: really excited by them. By nineteen sixty two, he becomes 424 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: friends with Malcolm X, and by nineteen sixty four he 425 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: was ready to fight for the heavyweight Championship of the World, 426 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: which was held by another black man named Sonny. Liston 427 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 1: Boxing has apparently gotten over its obsession with Jay names. 428 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: At this point, Sonny is a huge man with a 429 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 1: huge personality. He's also a mafia enforcer. Yeah, but one 430 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 1: time a cop called him some racial slurs, so he 431 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: beat the shit out of the cop, broke the CoP's knee, 432 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 1: and took the cops gun. So I kind of like 433 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: Sonny hero. Yeah, Muhammed fought him. The odds were heavily 434 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: against him seven to one, like the book the booking odds, 435 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: Muhammed is this young upstart Sonny Liston is the fucking 436 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: giant champion of everything. You know, Muhammad Ali by round 437 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,400 Speaker 1: three he's winning Listen. 438 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 3: Uh. 439 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 1: I think it's the first time he gets cut in 440 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: his professional career. He needs stitches for a cut under 441 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: his eye. After round four, Muhammad had something in his 442 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: eye that was burning him when he's in the sitting 443 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: in the corner afterwards and he can't see. And a 444 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: lot of people think the mafia guy was cheating with 445 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: oil of winter green on his gloves to blind Muhammed. 446 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: M It's possible, though, that's that seems possible. It's also 447 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: entirely possible that Liston's cut man. I did not know that. 448 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: And there's a job called cut man in boxing. Whish 449 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: is the doctor the ringside doctor. Yeah, yeah, it's possible. 450 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 1: Liston's cut man white Tis had put something probably on 451 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 1: that cut, right, and then that had gotten onto the 452 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: guy's gloves and then gotten onto you know, gotten to 453 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: Liston's gloves and then gotten in Muhammad's eyes. 454 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 2: That is possible. 455 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: And someone on Listen's side like literally wiped his own 456 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: eyes with the sponge to prove there wasn't some foul 457 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: play like the sponge that he used to like wipe 458 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 1: off the guy's gloves. So I don't know either way. 459 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: In round five, Mhammad Ali fights almost completely blind. By 460 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: round six, it was cleared up and Liston calls it 461 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: quits rather than fight around seven, so Muhammad Ali becomes 462 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: the heavyweight champion of the world and Liston wants a 463 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,719 Speaker 1: rematch or one of them wants to rematch as soon 464 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: as Listen And this one I couldn't figure out, and 465 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 1: I'm kind of curious, like this one is like everyone 466 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: talks about it, but no one really conjectures too hard. 467 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,119 Speaker 1: They have a rematch and Listen goes down in the 468 00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 1: first round from a six inch punch that everyone calls 469 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: the phantom punch and basically says like, couldn't possibly have 470 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 1: knocked him down. So it's completely possible that Liston took 471 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: a dive. Other people say, no, it's legit. 472 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 2: They think he threw the fight potentially. 473 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, And then if he threw the fight, my first 474 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: thought was like, oh, he's a mafia guy. He got 475 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 1: paid to whatever. 476 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 2: Right, That's literally immediately what I thought. Yeah, yeah. 477 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: Later Liston implied that he was afraid of the Nation 478 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,679 Speaker 1: of Islam. Oh, and what they would sing, what they 479 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 1: would do if he like won. I I don't know, 480 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: Muhammad Ali if so, was not excited or in on it, 481 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: like he literally was like yelling, get up and fight, sucker, 482 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 1: and no one will believe that, Like, no one will 483 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: believe I actually beat you. 484 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 2: You know. 485 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:48,439 Speaker 1: But now that Muhammad Ali is the heavyweight champion of 486 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,360 Speaker 1: the world, they sign him up more officially Elijah Muhammad 487 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: gives him the name Muhammad Ali, and he moves to 488 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 1: Chicago to be near the center of the Nation of Islam. 489 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 1: And most journalists refuse to call Muhammad Ali. They calmcashus 490 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,400 Speaker 1: and he just gets madder and madder about it, which 491 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: is completely fucking understandable. And he said, quote, why should 492 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 1: I keep my white slave master's name visible and my 493 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: black ancestors invisible, unknown, unhonored. Shortly after Ali joins the 494 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 1: Nation of Islam, Malcolm X leaves it. Like I said earlier, 495 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,679 Speaker 1: Malcolm tried to get him to quit too, but Ali 496 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: didn't quit. Ali stays in the movement. He becomes an 497 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: outspoken proponent of it, including the really positive stuff like 498 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 1: developing black self determination and pride, and including the things 499 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 1: that are less popular now, like advocating against interracial marriage. Meanwhile, 500 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: he married his first wife, Sanji Roy and it didn't 501 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: last because she wouldn't conform to the conservative values of 502 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: the Nation of Islam. He hated that she wore makeup 503 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: and dressed provocatively and went out to bars and partied 504 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: and all that shit, Which is to say, Muhammad Ali 505 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: is not going to get featured on our spin off 506 00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: show great men in history who were actually good to 507 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: the women in their lives, at least not young Muhammad. 508 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: The way that he interacts with his family is well, 509 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: it's part of his arc. 510 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 2: You know. 511 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 1: I don't want to say redemption arc, because that's the 512 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: main thing is whatever. He's fucking complicated and I think 513 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: he's fucking cool, and we'll keep talking about it. His 514 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,000 Speaker 1: children overall seem to have a positive impression of him, 515 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: and he changed his perceptions on lots of stuff as 516 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: his life continued. But he was married four times. He 517 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 1: had at least nine children, including several with people who 518 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: he wasn't married to. While he was married to other people, 519 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: he had a bunch of affairs and mistresses, including a 520 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 1: sixteen year old when he was thirty two. Another time 521 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 1: he left his wife for a young hot model. He 522 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: says that one of his only regrets about his career 523 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: is the time it took him away from his children, 524 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 1: that he wasn't as good of a father as he 525 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: wanted to be, So you know that's part of him complicated. 526 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. 527 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 1: This other thing is happening in the nineteen sixties the US. 528 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: I don't know if you've heard about this. It did 529 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: an imperialism in Vietnam. 530 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. 531 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 1: For more on that, see about eighty percent of the 532 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: episodes of this show I have done this year because 533 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 1: I'm sticking to the sixties seventies for a little while, 534 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: because there's so much here. And Muhammad Ali he was 535 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,439 Speaker 1: not the highest bracket on the draft. The highest bracket 536 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,480 Speaker 1: is one A. He was one why because he'd failed 537 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,679 Speaker 1: some literacy tests because of his dyslexia until nineteen sixty 538 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: six when they were like whatever, fuck it, who cares, 539 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: and they lowered their standards and he was suddenly one 540 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: a again. And there's a lot of sketchiness around this. 541 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: A lot of people are like, this is a way 542 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: to shut him up or get him killed. The US 543 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: sure like putting black soldiers in harms. Way, I think 544 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: it's more likely because they told him they were going 545 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: to try and do this, that he wouldn't have to 546 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: pick up a gun. They just wanted to use him 547 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: for like propaganda and have him like fight exhibition matches 548 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: and shit and like get other young black men killed instead, 549 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: you know. 550 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah that makes sense. Hmm. Yeah. 551 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: That was actually because the first time i'd heard about 552 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: any resisted the draft, I was like, why would you 553 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: fucking make Muhammad Ali a private and put him in 554 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: the front, you know? And yeah they thought of that too. 555 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: Despite being bad. The US government has a modicum of intelligence, 556 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: but Ali wasn't gonna fucking go. There was no way 557 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: to quote him. And I think I used this quote before, 558 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: similar quote quote, man, I ain't got no quarrel with 559 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: them Viet Kong. Why should they ask me to put 560 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: on a uniform and go ten thousand miles from home 561 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: and drop bombs and bullets on brown people in Vietnam 562 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: while so called Negro people in Louisville are treated like 563 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: dogs and denied simple human rights. He's also got another 564 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: good quote that I can't repeat about what words the 565 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: Viet Cong have never called him. He registers as a 566 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 1: conscientious objector. This part I didn't know until even the 567 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: Nation of Islam tried to persuade him to accept induction. 568 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,479 Speaker 1: His parents and in the Nation of Islam are like, 569 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: just go, you don't have to fight anyone. You'll just 570 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: fight some exhibition matches. It'll just be easier. But he's like, no, 571 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: I'm not going to fucking do it. So when he 572 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: gets called up anyway, he goes to the induction center 573 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: and he refuses to step up when they call his name. 574 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: They warn him, being like, hey, if you don't step up, 575 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: it's a felony, And he refuses a total of three times. 576 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: The government fucking flips out on him. Every state in 577 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: the country pulls his boxing license. The New York State 578 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: Athletic Commission stripped him of the heavyweight championship even though 579 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 1: he had never lost, and they take his passport away 580 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: because he's like pending trial, so he can't fight anywhere. 581 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: That's his livelihood and purpose in life, and he can't 582 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: do it. His celebrity and his polarizing of society just 583 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: spike at this point. He already has polarized a shit 584 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: out of everyone. When he like came out next with 585 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: Malcolm X and was like, yo, I'm Muslim now in 586 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four, everyone was like, oh fuck, you know, 587 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, he polarizes the shit out of society. Here 588 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: is a proud black man willing to put it all 589 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 1: on the line for his beliefs, to refuse to do 590 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: something evil the agents of white supremacy there on the 591 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: other side of the polarization. Not only was he constantly 592 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: being threatened, but newspapers who wrote in support of him 593 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: had bomb threats at their offices. One journalist had his 594 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: windshields smashed out for writing things like Muhammad Ali isn't 595 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:36,479 Speaker 1: doing something bad, you know, And he was found guilty 596 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: of draft resistance. His argument was, noamconcious subjector I didn't resist. 597 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: I showed up and told them I'm not going to 598 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: do it, and he takes it all the way to 599 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. So he wasn't in prison while they deliberated, 600 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: but he wasn't allowed to do his job. So instead 601 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: he travels around speaking at colleges talking about black power 602 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: and draft resistance and why the US should get the 603 00:31:55,480 --> 00:32:00,719 Speaker 1: hell out of Vietnam. And one random right wing pundit 604 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: I listened to the Muhammad Ali story from a right 605 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: wing point of view, and it talks about how having 606 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: done this for the lucrative college speaking money. You ever 607 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: spoken at a college. It's not a very good way 608 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: to make money. You don't say no, Okay, there's an 609 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: exception to this when I lived out of a van 610 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: and four hundred dollars was a lot of money, like 611 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: a lot, a lot of money. 612 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 2: He was really. 613 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: Lucrative to speak at college's, Okay, he was. He was 614 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: raking in money as a as a fighter, right, as 615 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: a boxer, Yeah, talking to colleges. I'm sure they paid 616 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: him more than four hundred dollars to come speak. This 617 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: is not in the same fucking league as professional boxing 618 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: and him doing this. It is hard to overstate how 619 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 1: influential this is on American politics. Black political prisoner Mamia 620 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: bou Jamal said about him, quote, as someone who grew 621 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: up very young in the party Black Panther Party, I 622 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 1: didn't form a lot of the idolatries that many age 623 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: mates did at fourteen to fifteen, I wasn't fantasizing about 624 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,640 Speaker 1: being a member of the NBA or NFL. I was 625 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: a member of the Black Panthers and that was enough 626 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: for me. But if ever there was a sports hero 627 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: to us, it was Muhammad Ali. He influenced the Black 628 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 1: Panthers more directly than that too. The first use of 629 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: the Black Panther symbol had a slogan with it, we 630 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: are the Greatest. And this is the collectivization of of 631 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:32,479 Speaker 1: Ali's personal motto, I am the Greatest. Huey Newton, one 632 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: of the co founders of the Panthers, was clear that 633 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: it was watching speeches by Malcolm X and Muhammad Ali 634 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: that had inspired his political growth. And the difference for 635 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: the Panthers is that, at least for Huey Newton when 636 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: he's talking about this, is that he had enough of 637 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: religion right. But the other stuff he quite liked that 638 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: Malcolm X, Muhammed Ali were saying he was a hero 639 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: to black troops because the black troops knew they were 640 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 1: being fucking used. His words and his deeds helped inspire 641 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 1: the black troops who refused service and those who turned 642 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,959 Speaker 1: their guns around on their actual pressers, the white officers 643 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: who were forcing them to go kill and die in 644 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 1: an unjust war. 645 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 3: Yeah. 646 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just like he had a massive platform 647 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:12,720 Speaker 1: and he was willing to burn it to the ground 648 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: to do what was right, and by doing so, he 649 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: helped fucking stop a war. So he's cool. 650 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's awesome. 651 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 1: He's fucking cool. Yeah. 652 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. You know the fact that they took away his 653 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 2: livelihood and stripped him of the titles and everything, but 654 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 2: he still felt the obligation and found a way to 655 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 2: use the platform that he had to still, you know, 656 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,279 Speaker 2: empower people and inspire people. Even if he couldn't do 657 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 2: it in a ring, he was going to find another 658 00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,720 Speaker 2: way to do it, and that that's awesome. Yeah. 659 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. And he he also was standing up to the 660 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: Nation of Islam. They kicked him out during this m Yeah, 661 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: as Muhammad put it, quote, the Nation of Islam didn't 662 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: make me a Muslim. My belief in God made me 663 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 1: a Muslim. And slowly, after three years, he's allowed to 664 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: box again. And the first place I think I was wrong. 665 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: I think I said his first fight was the fight 666 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,240 Speaker 1: of the century when he came back, that's not true. 667 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:11,520 Speaker 1: That was his third fight back. 668 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 2: Oh okay. 669 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 1: The first place that let him box again was in Atlanta, 670 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,840 Speaker 1: because Atlanta's cool sometimes and the black political establishment was 671 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,439 Speaker 1: strong there, so they basically reinstate. They were the first 672 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: people to reinstate his license because they were like whatever, 673 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: Like he's Muhammad Ali. Why are we preventing him from boxing. 674 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: He can fight here, right, okay? And so he fights 675 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: and he wins. And then I believe I've read both 676 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,720 Speaker 1: that the Supreme Court thing that happens in a moment 677 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 1: is why, and I've also read that it was a 678 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,439 Speaker 1: lawsuit in New York. Either way, something happens in New York. 679 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 1: He's allowed to box there again. He faces another guy, 680 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: he wins, and now he's ready to fight for his 681 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 1: championship to get it back. He is ready for the 682 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: second Fight of the Century. Much like the Battle of 683 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: the Too Many People with j Name sixty years earlier, 684 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 1: this one was also presented as a battle between the 685 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: forces of whiteness and good in America and apple Pie 686 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 1: on one side, and the evil black man who wants 687 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 1: to murder all the white people on the other side. 688 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,240 Speaker 1: The catch this time, I think I've alluded to already. 689 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: Joe Fraser, the heavyweight champion, is also black, so it's 690 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:26,680 Speaker 1: a little fucked up. Yeah, and Joe Fraser Muhammad Ali's 691 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,879 Speaker 1: relationship isn't as simple as anyone seems to say. There's 692 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: a version where Fraser and Ali were friends for a 693 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: while after all, before all of this, Fraser guy gave 694 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: Ali money while he was out of work and helped 695 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,320 Speaker 1: him get his boxing license reinstated. But this wasn't necessarily altruism. 696 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 1: People didn't really take Fraser seriously as the heavy white 697 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: champion because he'd never beat the last way he beat 698 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 1: the lat Actually, I don't remember if he was whatever. 699 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: He hadn't beat Ali, so no one took Fraser. 700 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,839 Speaker 2: It's I think he beat the guy that they gave 701 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,080 Speaker 2: the belt to and he took it off Ali or 702 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 2: something like that. Yeah. 703 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, Frasier talked directly with President Nixon about getting Ali 704 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 1: reinstated so that Fraser could beat him and show the 705 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,799 Speaker 1: world that the Muslim extremist wasn't as good as a 706 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: patriot like Fraser, or at least that is the way 707 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 1: that it is phrased in some versions of this. Because 708 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,360 Speaker 1: everyone is a showman, everyone is playing into this shit. 709 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 1: You know, it's like kind of hard to parse out. 710 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 1: So they talked shit on each other. Fraser kept dead 711 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 1: naming Ali. Ali called Fraser a dumb tool of the 712 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 1: white establishment and an uncle Tom. Neither side appreciated this 713 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:35,280 Speaker 1: about what the other was doing, and it got painted 714 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: by both Muhammad Ali and the media as a fight 715 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: between black and white, even though it wasn't. And the 716 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: whole thing is that Muhammed Ali is building up his 717 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: reputation as the people's champion at this point. Right the 718 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: Fight of the Century was in Madison Square Garden. We 719 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: talked about it in our episode about the Catholic burglars 720 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: and FBI. On the night of the match, Acifist broke 721 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: into an FBI office and stole documents proving conclusively how 722 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 1: the FEDS have been spying on everyone but Ali, at 723 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,280 Speaker 1: least by his own telling of this. He he got cocky. 724 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,480 Speaker 1: He was like, of course, I'm gonna win that, Muhammad Ali, 725 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:17,320 Speaker 1: you know, he's never lost, is a reasonable assumption Primmed 726 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:22,720 Speaker 1: have made right. He loses, and this is his first defeat. 727 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 1: But if you want to not get defeat, well, actually, 728 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: let's do the Let's get sponsored by something nice. We 729 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 1: got sponsored by turtles. But is there anything ian that 730 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:33,759 Speaker 1: you want to be sponsored by that's particularly like a 731 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 1: nice good thing. 732 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 2: Yes, I've been thinking about this for a while. You know, 733 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 2: when you like just wash your sheets and you make 734 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:44,240 Speaker 2: your bed all nice, that first that first night sleep 735 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 2: in like a freshly laundered bed, that's like, there's no 736 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,120 Speaker 2: better feeling in the world. We want to be sponsored 737 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:50,480 Speaker 2: by that. 738 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:56,240 Speaker 1: Hell yeah, we are sponsored by first night of sleep 739 00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: in freshly londered sheets. Not well, he might also be 740 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,919 Speaker 1: sponsored by specific mattresses or linen sheet sets, but that's 741 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: not our main sponsor. Our main sponsor is the first 742 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: night of sleep in a freshly londoned bed. Oh yeah, 743 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,360 Speaker 1: and we're back. So in nineteen seventy one, the Supreme 744 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 1: Court overturned his conviction unanimously. He should not have been 745 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,120 Speaker 1: denied a conscientious objector status. It was absolutely part of 746 00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,719 Speaker 1: his religion to not go fight in this war, and 747 00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:27,800 Speaker 1: part of their evidence in favor of this was actually 748 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: the autobiography of Malcolm X, which helped them understand that 749 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: this was a sincere conviction and not cowardice on his part. 750 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,520 Speaker 1: I think the other argument against it being cowardice is 751 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 1: it's Muhammad Ali. Like anything that man is afraid of, 752 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: he does anyway. But so he's back, he keeps fighting. 753 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: He's actually back in the Nation of Islam. I didn't read. 754 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:56,080 Speaker 1: I didn't find about how his return after being kicked 755 00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 1: out for a while went. A lot of people at 756 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: least during this time period seems to get kicked out 757 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: and reaccepted back into the Nation of Islam. I think 758 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:07,360 Speaker 1: things are getting a little hectic in that organization this point. 759 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,319 Speaker 1: So he kept fighting, and in nineteen seventy four he 760 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,959 Speaker 1: gets a rematch with Joe Fraser. But the problem is 761 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 1: is that Joe had lost his championship already to a 762 00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: guy who sells girls named George Foreman, and so in 763 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,560 Speaker 1: order to fight Foreman, he needs to fight Fraser. So 764 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 1: in order to get his belt back, he needs to 765 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 1: beat the person who beat him and then beat the 766 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,440 Speaker 1: guy who beat the person who beat him, which is 767 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:40,399 Speaker 1: an uphill battle, and he wins. He fucking rematches Joe 768 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: Fraser and he fucking wins. 769 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 2: Oh, I kind of at this point, are once their 770 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,760 Speaker 2: relationship like with Joe Fraser and Ali, are they still 771 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,759 Speaker 2: kind of like on the opposite sides of this like 772 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 2: white versus black like kind of thing, or has that 773 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,640 Speaker 2: been kind of like swept aside at this point. I'm 774 00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:58,480 Speaker 2: just curious. 775 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: This is when it gets even worse. I think that 776 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: you this is when I believe this is the point 777 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,760 Speaker 1: at which Muhammad Ali is carrying around a stuffed gorilla 778 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: in his pocket and saying he's gonna beat that ugly gorilla, yes, 779 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:20,399 Speaker 1: which I think even at the time people were like, yeah, 780 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: that's racist. 781 00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can see why Joe Fraser would 782 00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,680 Speaker 2: not like Muhammad Ali after some things that like that. 783 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:30,760 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, okay. 784 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 1: And I don't know whether Joe. I think Joe Fraser 785 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: actually accepted this apology. And in his in Muhammad Ali's 786 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,239 Speaker 1: book The Soul of a Butterfly, which is one of 787 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: his later autobiographies, he's like, I went too far. 788 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:45,320 Speaker 2: That was bad. 789 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:48,279 Speaker 1: I should not have done that. And he's fairly like 790 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,440 Speaker 1: direct that He's like he was like, I was just 791 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: doing my bit, but that is not an acceptable thing. 792 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:57,839 Speaker 2: I should have done, right, he took it too far? 793 00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, yeah, but yeah, his second match with Joe Fraser, 794 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: I think is where he like really just starts pulling 795 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 1: out all the stops on on his shit talk. Is 796 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,400 Speaker 1: the nicest possible way to say that. But it's not good. 797 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,319 Speaker 1: But I actually don't know whether I think I think 798 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:19,439 Speaker 1: I forgot to mention with the the nineteen seventy fight 799 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: or nineteen seventy one, nineteen seventy fight, is that the 800 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,279 Speaker 1: first fight with Fraser is that Fraser is getting called 801 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 1: the Great White Hope, right, and which I didn't I 802 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,120 Speaker 1: haven't read Fraser's side of all of this much. 803 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say, I wonder how he felt 804 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:37,440 Speaker 2: about that. 805 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:44,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's kind of suck. So so it beats 806 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,880 Speaker 1: Joe Fraser this this second time, right, and bo he 807 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,920 Speaker 1: beats him the first whatever the second match between the 808 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 1: two of them, Muhammad Ali wins, but he doesn't get 809 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,399 Speaker 1: the belt back because Joe Fraser doesn't have the belt. 810 00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 1: George Foreman has the belt. So he goes and he 811 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 1: fights Foreman in this fight is called the Rumble in 812 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,800 Speaker 1: the Jungle and it's held in what was then Zaire 813 00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,879 Speaker 1: and what is now the Democratic Republic of the Congo, 814 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 1: and everyone assumed Ali would lose. He was old. He 815 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 1: was thirty two years old. I don't know if you 816 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 1: could imagine being thirty two years old, but that sounds 817 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:16,120 Speaker 1: like really old. 818 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:18,040 Speaker 2: Oh, don't say that. 819 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,200 Speaker 1: And he'd lost what would have been the best years 820 00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,319 Speaker 1: of his career his late twenties to his objection to imperialism. 821 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:35,919 Speaker 1: He is and George Foreman is black also. 822 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:34,399 Speaker 3: But. 823 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: Muhammad Ali is seen as the people's champion like Worldwide Right, 824 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: and so I don't believe that this fight was racialized 825 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:45,480 Speaker 1: in the same way. But he is like the local 826 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,879 Speaker 1: hero in Zaire, and Muhammad Ali loves Zayire's like holy shit, 827 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,920 Speaker 1: it's a fucking country run by black people with fucking rules, 828 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,839 Speaker 1: and the crowd in Zaire love him, and they chance 829 00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 1: Ali kill him. And he doesn't actually want to kill 830 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:01,879 Speaker 1: George Foreman, or at least he says he doesn't later, 831 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,720 Speaker 1: And there's literally no reason to believe that he actually 832 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:09,360 Speaker 1: wanted to kill George Foreman. George Foreman was considered unbeatable. 833 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:11,760 Speaker 1: He has one of the hardest punches in the history 834 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:16,440 Speaker 1: of the sport and he is younger and all this stuff. 835 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,919 Speaker 1: So Ali comes up with a new strategy called rope 836 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,640 Speaker 1: a dope. You ever heard of this? 837 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,800 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, Yes, such. 838 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,840 Speaker 1: A good name. So he goes in and he punches 839 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,520 Speaker 1: Foreman as hard as he can in the face to 840 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:35,840 Speaker 1: like get him mad, and then he just hangs on 841 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,760 Speaker 1: the ropes and he blocks, and he lets the elastic 842 00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:41,839 Speaker 1: take the pressure out of Foreman's blows, and he just 843 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,799 Speaker 1: fucking tries to wear Foreman down. Literally, this is like 844 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,080 Speaker 1: the equivalent of like Dodge Rock. You know. It's like, 845 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna wear you down by you punching me. 846 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, until you're so tired that you can't even fight anymore. 847 00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:57,960 Speaker 2: Then I'll just knock you out. 848 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:01,040 Speaker 1: Oh I love yeah, Yeah, And that's what he did. 849 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,120 Speaker 1: And the whole time he's on the ropes, he's just 850 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,880 Speaker 1: mocking his opponent and trying to make him mad and 851 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,120 Speaker 1: tiring him out, and slowly he starts to fight back harder, 852 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:14,480 Speaker 1: and round eight he knocked George Foreman out and literally 853 00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:19,800 Speaker 1: a billion people watched it happen on television. Wow, all, 854 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,440 Speaker 1: I can't I know. I think that's a quarter of 855 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:24,960 Speaker 1: the people who were alive in Like. 856 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, was it nineteen seventy four? 857 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,799 Speaker 1: You said, yeah, Like I think the population of the 858 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:35,240 Speaker 1: world was like four million in the nineties, four billion 859 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 1: in the nineties. I don't know, but yeah, So this 860 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,960 Speaker 1: is a this is a big deal in a way 861 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,120 Speaker 1: that boxing actually isn't as much anymore. I mean, it's 862 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:47,040 Speaker 1: still a big deal, but it's like I think that 863 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,239 Speaker 1: it's like looking back on boxing, it's it's not the sport. 864 00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,520 Speaker 1: When I first think of sports, I think of basketball 865 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:56,040 Speaker 1: as like the thing that you know, maybe football or something. 866 00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,720 Speaker 2: But like, yeah, I feel like the popular of boxing 867 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,160 Speaker 2: like probably peaked in like the nineties, like with like 868 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:03,719 Speaker 2: Tyson and stuff. I feel like it hasn't been the 869 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:04,560 Speaker 2: same since then. 870 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:11,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it makes sense. And Mike Tyson went in 871 00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:15,600 Speaker 1: a road rage incident knocked someone unconscious like a mile 872 00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,160 Speaker 1: away from my house where I grew up. 873 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,359 Speaker 2: Whoa wild Okay. 874 00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:26,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, so he is now the heavyweight champion of 875 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:31,160 Speaker 1: the world again for the second time. Fraser wasn't done 876 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 1: with him, and they had a third match, and this 877 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:38,040 Speaker 1: is called the Thrilla in Manila. It's possible this is 878 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:39,719 Speaker 1: when the Girl of Stuff happened. But I'm not certain. 879 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:41,960 Speaker 1: I think it was the previous fight, the second fight. 880 00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,359 Speaker 1: This is in nineteen seventy five, and it takes place 881 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:50,040 Speaker 1: in Manila, which is in the Philippines. And yeah, this 882 00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 1: fight was the hardest of Muhammad Ali's life, and it 883 00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: was probably the hardest of either of their lives. It's 884 00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:00,000 Speaker 1: also probable that they did permanent damage to each other 885 00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:00,560 Speaker 1: in this fight. 886 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:01,960 Speaker 2: Oh okay. 887 00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,640 Speaker 1: In his corner, Ali was like, so this is what 888 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:13,000 Speaker 1: dying feels like. But he won, and then just to 889 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,239 Speaker 1: go back to his Nation of Islam stuff and just 890 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,880 Speaker 1: to cover possibly the worst thing he ever did in 891 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:23,080 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, as a final act of black separatism. Basically, 892 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:27,080 Speaker 1: he gave a talk to the KKK ad a KKK rally. 893 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 1: Yeah what in what was the context of this talk 894 00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:36,080 Speaker 1: he went up to say, like, we all agree black 895 00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:40,720 Speaker 1: men should marry their own women. Oh no, okay, because 896 00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:43,080 Speaker 1: he was a spokesperson for the Nation of Islam, and 897 00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,160 Speaker 1: the Nation of Islam at that point was coordinating with 898 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,960 Speaker 1: the KKK because they both wanted racial separation. 899 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:51,520 Speaker 2: Damn. 900 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, while he was there. I there's no record that 901 00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,480 Speaker 1: I found of the speech itself, but there's a well, 902 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:02,200 Speaker 1: there's some quotes from it, but there's clips of him 903 00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:05,320 Speaker 1: talking about him giving him the talk, and he's just 904 00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,279 Speaker 1: joking about it, and he's laughing about it. And one 905 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,440 Speaker 1: of the things is that like while he's there, they 906 00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:13,560 Speaker 1: joke about lynching him. They're like, get that end word, 907 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:17,320 Speaker 1: and then he turns around. They're like, Ah, we're just kidding, 908 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:22,040 Speaker 1: We're not actually gonna murder you, and he's like laughing 909 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:23,000 Speaker 1: at their funny joke. 910 00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:24,720 Speaker 2: Wow, that's terrible. 911 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:29,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the worst thing that I've found. I mean, 912 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:36,239 Speaker 1: I also don't entirely whatever. But then Elijah Muhammad died 913 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:41,040 Speaker 1: and the Nation of Islam converted to Sunni Islam, and 914 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:46,000 Speaker 1: with it, Muhammad Ali converted to Sunni Islam. No more 915 00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:50,280 Speaker 1: pro segregation, no more hanging out with the KKK, still 916 00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:55,600 Speaker 1: anti white supremacy, still pro black power. But that's fucking good. 917 00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:05,120 Speaker 1: I'm real glad for that change. Yeah, and he's getting old. 918 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:09,799 Speaker 1: He's still a boxer, but Fraser had really fucked him up, 919 00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,680 Speaker 1: and he kept He keeps winning for a while, but 920 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,560 Speaker 1: the fights are getting closer and closer, and he loses 921 00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,400 Speaker 1: the title to an upstart named Leon Spinx in nineteen 922 00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,480 Speaker 1: seventy eight. He rematched and then he won again, and 923 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,160 Speaker 1: he becomes the first heavyweight to win the belt three times. 924 00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,160 Speaker 1: I'd always like, I never quite thought about it when 925 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,200 Speaker 1: I was a kid, being like, oh, heavyweight champion three 926 00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,440 Speaker 1: times over or whatever. You're like, oh, yeah, like won 927 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:38,360 Speaker 1: three championships, like three tournaments or whatever, like not realizing 928 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,000 Speaker 1: it was like, no, he lost it and then won 929 00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:47,080 Speaker 1: it again, you know. Yeah, he tried retiring, but he 930 00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,520 Speaker 1: kept coming back, and then he started losing, and he 931 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,200 Speaker 1: kind of like later he was like, I wanted to 932 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,359 Speaker 1: be the first one to retire while I'm still on top. 933 00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,480 Speaker 1: But then he's like, but I wouldn't. I wouldn't have. 934 00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,239 Speaker 1: I wouldn't have retired until I started losing. There's no 935 00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,480 Speaker 1: way I would have, you know. Yeah, he fought his 936 00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:05,279 Speaker 1: last professional match in nineteen eighty one. 937 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,319 Speaker 2: He lost that. He lost a couple prior to that, and. 938 00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,520 Speaker 1: Around this time he got diagnosed with Parkinson's, almost certainly 939 00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:15,560 Speaker 1: caused by the damage he'd sustained in the ring. But 940 00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,720 Speaker 1: to quote a musician I've never heard of named Kinky Friedman, 941 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:21,719 Speaker 1: because this quote is often misattributed to Charles Pokowski, I 942 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,960 Speaker 1: just like this quote. Our goal in life is to 943 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,759 Speaker 1: find what you love and let it kill you, so 944 00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,520 Speaker 1: you know, and he talks about that himself. He's like, 945 00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:34,120 Speaker 1: he's like, I ain't got no regrets even though it 946 00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:34,880 Speaker 1: did this to me. 947 00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:35,160 Speaker 3: You know. 948 00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure he wouldn't have had it any other way, 949 00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:40,839 Speaker 2: you know. Yeah, he was doing what he loved. Yeah. 950 00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:45,719 Speaker 1: Yeah. So Ali and Fraser talks shit on each other 951 00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:47,879 Speaker 1: on and off for the rest of their lives. I've 952 00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:50,200 Speaker 1: read sources claiming it became kind of a friendly banter 953 00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:54,280 Speaker 1: and that like they accept like a Fraser accepted Ali's 954 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,880 Speaker 1: apology and stuff like that, and others have said it 955 00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:00,839 Speaker 1: was a blood feud to the death. But I I'm 956 00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,160 Speaker 1: on side they probably started getting along because I feel 957 00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:04,799 Speaker 1: like the like it was a blood feud is like 958 00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:09,439 Speaker 1: sell news extreme. Yeah yeah, And I'm gonna a little 959 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,040 Speaker 1: bit speed run the rest of his life. And it's 960 00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:12,880 Speaker 1: like kind of sucks in some ways because actually he 961 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:17,040 Speaker 1: does a lot of his most amazing shit in this period. 962 00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:18,719 Speaker 2: After he retires. 963 00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, after he retires, once he's converted to Sunni Islam, 964 00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:28,279 Speaker 1: he starts taking faith really seriously. And if you listen 965 00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,799 Speaker 1: to conservatives, one of those conservatives who's like name, I 966 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,480 Speaker 1: can't even remember one of those, like Chowder Crowder or 967 00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:37,200 Speaker 1: some shit has this whole thing about like, oh, he 968 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,120 Speaker 1: became a conservative and that's why he became good, but 969 00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:41,960 Speaker 1: he used to be a racist and like it's just 970 00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,120 Speaker 1: like fucking like anti white racists or whatever. 971 00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:45,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, Noka. 972 00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:49,000 Speaker 1: So conservatives try to claim Muhammad Ali oh, I don't 973 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:52,040 Speaker 1: like that. I'm bringing it up because I because it's 974 00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:54,839 Speaker 1: not true, and I want to talk about how it's 975 00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:58,560 Speaker 1: not true. There are specific things that they use as 976 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:03,200 Speaker 1: their evidence that he became conser servative and like, and 977 00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:05,600 Speaker 1: some of those things are technically true, but they aren't. 978 00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:11,600 Speaker 1: It needs the context. He's focused primarily on the issues 979 00:52:11,600 --> 00:52:15,040 Speaker 1: of blackness and religion. Right in nineteen eighty he backs 980 00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,120 Speaker 1: President Jimmy Carter because he believes Carter is suitably religious 981 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,440 Speaker 1: to be president. In nineteen eighty four, he starts off 982 00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,480 Speaker 1: backing Reverend Jesse James and the Democratic primary, but when 983 00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:29,880 Speaker 1: Jesse James loses, he starts backing Ronald Reagan. And he 984 00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,479 Speaker 1: backs Ronald Reagan because basically his quote at the time 985 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:35,880 Speaker 1: was he wants to keep God in schools and that's enough. 986 00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:38,880 Speaker 1: Later he admits he was wrong to back Reagan, that 987 00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:43,839 Speaker 1: he'd been listening to bad advice, and so basically, yeah, 988 00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,920 Speaker 1: he'd been listening to bad advice. It didn't work anyway, 989 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,640 Speaker 1: even though he's like, it's kind of almost cool how 990 00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:51,240 Speaker 1: it didn't work. He's like one of the most famous 991 00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:53,239 Speaker 1: people in the country and here he is being like, 992 00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,520 Speaker 1: as a black man, I'm voting for Reagan, and like 993 00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:00,640 Speaker 1: black voters didn't vote for fucking Reagan, Like no, we're good, yeah, 994 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:06,040 Speaker 1: even yeah, and even lower percentage of them voted for 995 00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,479 Speaker 1: Reagan in nineteen eighty four than did in nineteen eighty 996 00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:10,319 Speaker 1: and it was not high either time. I think it's 997 00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:15,120 Speaker 1: like fourteen percent and then nine percent, you know, And 998 00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:16,960 Speaker 1: a lot of black voters are like, oh, it's the 999 00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,319 Speaker 1: Parkinson's he's losing his mind, oh man, which is like 1000 00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,839 Speaker 1: kind of fucked up, but like, you know, but yeah, 1001 00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,480 Speaker 1: he continues to change as a person and develop, but 1002 00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:31,520 Speaker 1: not into conservative like his last books are still just like, man, 1003 00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:33,840 Speaker 1: you know what rules his reparations and you know what, 1004 00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,520 Speaker 1: I'm not sorry about how the Nation of Islam tried 1005 00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,520 Speaker 1: to make black people's lives better, Like wouldn't it be 1006 00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,120 Speaker 1: great if all the rich people had to give up 1007 00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:42,800 Speaker 1: all their stuff and give it to poor black people. 1008 00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:46,960 Speaker 1: Like he's not a fucking like. There are elements right, like, 1009 00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:52,239 Speaker 1: you know, there's like the cultural conservativism of like not 1010 00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,120 Speaker 1: wanting women to address a certain way and stuff like that. 1011 00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,239 Speaker 1: I actually don't know how that did or didn't change 1012 00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:56,759 Speaker 1: over his life. 1013 00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:57,400 Speaker 2: I'm not sure. 1014 00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,120 Speaker 1: One of his quotes that he wrote later, the man 1015 00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:03,440 Speaker 1: who views the world at fifty the same as he 1016 00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:06,080 Speaker 1: did when he was twenty has wasted thirty years of 1017 00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:11,360 Speaker 1: his life. And one of his daughters becomes a professional boxer, 1018 00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,479 Speaker 1: and for a while Ali was upset about this because 1019 00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:15,680 Speaker 1: he didn't believe women should box. And then he came 1020 00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:17,520 Speaker 1: around and was like proud of her and was like 1021 00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:18,759 Speaker 1: good dad, you know. 1022 00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:21,759 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and Laila was like very successful in her 1023 00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:22,480 Speaker 2: career as well. 1024 00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:24,040 Speaker 1: Cool, so that's cool. 1025 00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:25,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. 1026 00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,600 Speaker 1: He like in his thing, he's like, oh, I told 1027 00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:30,960 Speaker 1: her it was my talent, but then that she inherited, 1028 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,239 Speaker 1: and then I was and but in the same thing, 1029 00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:35,120 Speaker 1: he's like, but then I was like, now it's your 1030 00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,080 Speaker 1: hard work. It's it's your hard work. Talent is only 1031 00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,160 Speaker 1: some tiny percentage of this. It's how hard to fail 1032 00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,040 Speaker 1: for it. He really like, like, honestly, The Soul of 1033 00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,200 Speaker 1: the Butterfly is a it's a really good book. It's 1034 00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:52,840 Speaker 1: like very religious and very like just full of like 1035 00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:55,080 Speaker 1: him talking about how he tries to do good and 1036 00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,840 Speaker 1: all of the different things. It's really interesting. I actually 1037 00:54:57,880 --> 00:54:58,799 Speaker 1: I really recommend it. 1038 00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:01,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I'll definitely have to check that out. 1039 00:55:02,680 --> 00:55:05,320 Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety, he flew to Bagdad to try and 1040 00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:07,440 Speaker 1: find a path to piece between the US and Iraq. 1041 00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,920 Speaker 1: He met with Saddam Hussein and spent ten days negotiating, 1042 00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:15,040 Speaker 1: basically speaking about how we need Muslim unity. He didn't 1043 00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,279 Speaker 1: stop a war, but he did secure the release of 1044 00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:18,279 Speaker 1: fifteen hostages. 1045 00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:21,200 Speaker 2: Wow, that's awesome, I know. 1046 00:55:21,600 --> 00:55:23,880 Speaker 1: And he didn't even like people say that he was 1047 00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:27,400 Speaker 1: trying to be this like clever statesman, this like hardened 1048 00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:31,040 Speaker 1: diplomat who's going to go and engage in like political fisticuffs, 1049 00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:34,120 Speaker 1: you know, and like, but he's actually just too earnest 1050 00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:36,880 Speaker 1: and too caring for like the political realm. So he 1051 00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,080 Speaker 1: just goes where someone where an earnest good person can 1052 00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:45,080 Speaker 1: say earnest good things and get earnest good things done. 1053 00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:49,640 Speaker 1: And in his later life he's just this hard working. 1054 00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,480 Speaker 1: I want everyone to be happy guy. He leveraged his 1055 00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:57,960 Speaker 1: fame for good every chance he got. He wrote quote, 1056 00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:00,600 Speaker 1: at night, when I go to bed, I ask myself, 1057 00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,000 Speaker 1: if I don't wake up tomorrow, when I be proud 1058 00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:05,439 Speaker 1: of how I live today. With that question in mind, 1059 00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:07,160 Speaker 1: I have tried to do as many good deeds as 1060 00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:09,520 Speaker 1: I can, whether it is standing up for my faith, 1061 00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:13,160 Speaker 1: signing an autograph, or simply shaking a person's hand. I'm 1062 00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:15,480 Speaker 1: just trying to make people happy and get into heaven. 1063 00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:21,160 Speaker 1: His children mentioned that his true faith, even more than Islam, 1064 00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:24,359 Speaker 1: was the faith of the heart that all religions are 1065 00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:29,480 Speaker 1: trying to get to. This His quote is rivers, lakes, ponds, streams, oceans, 1066 00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,719 Speaker 1: all of different names, but they all contain water. So 1067 00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,480 Speaker 1: do religions have different names, but they all contain truth 1068 00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,200 Speaker 1: expressed in different ways, forms and times. If you love God, 1069 00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:40,240 Speaker 1: you can't love only. 1070 00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:40,759 Speaker 2: Some of his. 1071 00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:47,239 Speaker 1: Children and he brought homeless families into his house constantly. 1072 00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:49,880 Speaker 1: He was like, if you ask, if you ask Muhammad 1073 00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:51,879 Speaker 1: Ali for money on the street, he's going to give 1074 00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,560 Speaker 1: you money, and then he's going to talk about how 1075 00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:59,200 Speaker 1: you probably were God, you know, like you were like 1076 00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,440 Speaker 1: the like test of the faith, you know, right right. 1077 00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:08,600 Speaker 1: The only evidence I have of him around anything that 1078 00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:11,439 Speaker 1: has to do with any homosexuality is that he knew 1079 00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,960 Speaker 1: a lesbian couple and commented on how they seemed happy. 1080 00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:18,040 Speaker 1: So fuck yeah. He supported the Special Olympics like very 1081 00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:21,360 Speaker 1: actively supported it, including actually during his boxing career, not 1082 00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:24,720 Speaker 1: just in his like later do gooder life. I'm gonna 1083 00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:28,360 Speaker 1: say humanitarian life instead. He took great pride in nineteen 1084 00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:31,400 Speaker 1: seventy nine and getting to have He felt honored that 1085 00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:33,280 Speaker 1: he got to participate in the lighting of the Flame 1086 00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:37,520 Speaker 1: of Hope for the Special Olympics nineteen seventy nine. When 1087 00:57:37,560 --> 00:57:41,360 Speaker 1: he died on June third, twenty sixteen, at the age 1088 00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:44,400 Speaker 1: of seventy four, he insisted that his funeral be interfaith, 1089 00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,440 Speaker 1: but also be in accordance to Islamic rights as befitted 1090 00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:52,280 Speaker 1: his like I am Muslim, that is not the only way. 1091 00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:53,960 Speaker 1: And I'm going to end with a piece of his 1092 00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:58,240 Speaker 1: called how I would like to be remembered. I would 1093 00:57:58,320 --> 00:57:59,720 Speaker 1: like to be remembered as a man who won the 1094 00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:02,720 Speaker 1: heavy weight title three times, who was humorous, who treated 1095 00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:05,080 Speaker 1: everyone right, as a man who never looked down on 1096 00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:07,320 Speaker 1: those who looked up to him who helped as many 1097 00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,480 Speaker 1: people as he could, as a man who stood up 1098 00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,680 Speaker 1: for his beliefs no matter what, as a man who 1099 00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:14,760 Speaker 1: tried to unite all humankind through faith and love. And 1100 00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:16,920 Speaker 1: if that's too much, then I guess I'd settle for 1101 00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,480 Speaker 1: being remembered only as a great boxer who became a 1102 00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,360 Speaker 1: leader and champion of his people. And I wouldn't even 1103 00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,120 Speaker 1: mind if folks forgot how pretty I was. 1104 00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:32,920 Speaker 4: That's awesome. Yeah, Oh he's a man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1105 00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:37,840 Speaker 4: that was I really I thank you for putting me 1106 00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:39,360 Speaker 4: up to learning more about him. 1107 00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, thank you for doing the research and then 1108 00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:46,840 Speaker 2: sharing it with me. So yeah, I just think it's 1109 00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:51,440 Speaker 2: so amazing and it was just so courageous that at 1110 00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,200 Speaker 2: a time where he had everything to lose, and you know, 1111 00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:56,880 Speaker 2: you could say that he did lose a lot of it. Yeah, 1112 00:58:56,880 --> 00:59:00,600 Speaker 2: he was, you know, firm in his beliefs and stood 1113 00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:02,640 Speaker 2: by his guns because it could it could have been 1114 00:59:02,680 --> 00:59:06,080 Speaker 2: so easy for him, not only with Vietnam, but just 1115 00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:08,600 Speaker 2: with all of his activism, just to you know, keep 1116 00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:10,760 Speaker 2: it to himself or not say anything, or not make 1117 00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:13,040 Speaker 2: waves or you know, you know, stay out of the limelight. 1118 00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:16,040 Speaker 2: And I think to be honest, it's probably some probably 1119 00:59:16,080 --> 00:59:18,240 Speaker 2: part of the reason why he had that contentious relationship 1120 00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:23,320 Speaker 2: with Joe Frazier, But he decided to stand up for 1121 00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:25,720 Speaker 2: what he thought was right, and he inspired so many 1122 00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:28,920 Speaker 2: people because of it, Like, for example, Kream Abdul Jabbar 1123 00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,760 Speaker 2: I believe you know, uh Muhammad Ali was a big 1124 00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:35,280 Speaker 2: inspiration for him and his activism. So you know, the 1125 00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:37,800 Speaker 2: impact that he's had outside of boxing, which is the 1126 00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:41,240 Speaker 2: thing that he's you know, most known for, is still 1127 00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,080 Speaker 2: so wide reaching. I just think it's amazing. He had 1128 00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:44,840 Speaker 2: an amazing life. 1129 00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:48,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And it's like in some ways, it's like, wow, 1130 00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,360 Speaker 1: he put everything on the line. He could have lost everything, 1131 00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,240 Speaker 1: and then the thing that's really interesting is he did 1132 00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:54,440 Speaker 1: lose everything. 1133 00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,040 Speaker 2: Right exactly. He did lose a lot, and. 1134 00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:00,400 Speaker 1: Then he got it back. It was like, well, I 1135 01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:04,760 Speaker 1: fought my way up to this before. If I'm knocked 1136 01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:06,400 Speaker 1: down to nothing, I can do it again. 1137 01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:07,520 Speaker 3: Right. 1138 01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:11,040 Speaker 2: It did so badass? 1139 01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:18,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, fucking cool. All right, Well you got anything 1140 01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:19,280 Speaker 1: you want to plug? 1141 01:00:21,080 --> 01:00:26,880 Speaker 2: I would say, just being kind to others. You never 1142 01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:29,320 Speaker 2: know what somebody's going through. It's free to not be 1143 01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:31,640 Speaker 2: an asshole. Just try it out. 1144 01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:39,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good one. I'm gonna plug myself because 1145 01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,400 Speaker 1: I'm a jerk. I'm gonna plug that. I have another 1146 01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:44,439 Speaker 1: podcast called Live Like the World Is Dying that comes 1147 01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:47,040 Speaker 1: out every Friday. I'm one of the hosts on that. 1148 01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:50,080 Speaker 1: It's all your individual and community preparedness needs. 1149 01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:52,640 Speaker 2: And love it. We love a prepper pod. 1150 01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:57,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I'd like I want a parachute for 1151 01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:00,280 Speaker 1: one day. No, that's actually probably just an anxiety thing. 1152 01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:06,360 Speaker 1: And you can follow me on the internet if you 1153 01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:09,400 Speaker 1: look for me as Margaret Kiljoy. I am currently the 1154 01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,439 Speaker 1: only Margaret kill Joy in the world. Although that said 1155 01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,800 Speaker 1: Margaret at Margaret Kiljoe on Twitter is taken by someone 1156 01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:20,400 Speaker 1: who hasn't posted in many, many years, and it's not me. 1157 01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:24,439 Speaker 1: Fucked up, I know, I know. Well, what it was 1158 01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:27,120 Speaker 1: was that this band, my Chemical Romance, had all their 1159 01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:29,120 Speaker 1: fans named themselves kill Joy for a while. 1160 01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,800 Speaker 2: Like ten years ago. Uh okay and. 1161 01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:36,160 Speaker 1: So yeah, and so I was like, why are all 1162 01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:39,960 Speaker 1: of these like teenagers from other countries suddenly following me 1163 01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:42,440 Speaker 1: on Twitter? And the answer was that they were just 1164 01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:45,080 Speaker 1: like looking for all the other kill Joys and following them. 1165 01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:46,800 Speaker 2: Hey, well, I hope they like podcasts. 1166 01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:47,560 Speaker 4: I know. 1167 01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:49,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1168 01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:54,959 Speaker 1: All right. Well that's it and you can hear more 1169 01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,440 Speaker 1: Cool People Did Cool Stuff next Monday. 1170 01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:04,960 Speaker 3: Fuck yeah, thank ye. Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff 1171 01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,960 Speaker 3: is a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts 1172 01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:11,480 Speaker 3: from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, 1173 01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:14,640 Speaker 3: or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 1174 01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:16,600 Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts.