1 00:00:08,245 --> 00:00:15,285 Speaker 1: School of Humans. On Sunday, June seventeenth, twenty twenty four, 2 00:00:15,845 --> 00:00:19,605 Speaker 1: Jay Slater, a nineteen year old bricklayers apprentice who lived 3 00:00:19,605 --> 00:00:23,085 Speaker 1: in Lancashire, England, was on his first ever foreign holiday 4 00:00:23,565 --> 00:00:26,285 Speaker 1: and he seemed to be having a blast. He had 5 00:00:26,325 --> 00:00:28,565 Speaker 1: gone to the island of Tenerife in Spain with a 6 00:00:28,565 --> 00:00:32,445 Speaker 1: female friend named Lucy and another guy named Brad. That night, 7 00:00:32,805 --> 00:00:35,005 Speaker 1: he and Lucy went out to a music festival called 8 00:00:35,165 --> 00:00:39,565 Speaker 1: NRG New Rave Generation. It was held at Papagayo Beach 9 00:00:39,605 --> 00:00:43,725 Speaker 1: Club in an area called Veronica's Strip. It's an area 10 00:00:43,725 --> 00:00:46,965 Speaker 1: that has a ton of nightclubs and neon signs. It's 11 00:00:47,165 --> 00:00:50,805 Speaker 1: very popular with British tourists. According to the information that 12 00:00:50,885 --> 00:00:53,845 Speaker 1: Lucy posted later on a go fund meet, they had 13 00:00:53,845 --> 00:00:56,685 Speaker 1: a great time that night. Jay had just finished his 14 00:00:56,805 --> 00:00:59,445 Speaker 1: course at technical school back in the UK. He was 15 00:00:59,485 --> 00:01:01,565 Speaker 1: getting ready to take his exams when he got home, 16 00:01:01,605 --> 00:01:04,765 Speaker 1: so they were blowing off some steam. But Lucy said 17 00:01:04,805 --> 00:01:07,565 Speaker 1: she was tired from the weekend, so she went home early. 18 00:01:07,605 --> 00:01:11,485 Speaker 1: That night. Jay stayed on at the club. He posted 19 00:01:11,525 --> 00:01:14,645 Speaker 1: photos and snapchats from there. He appeared to be having 20 00:01:14,685 --> 00:01:18,565 Speaker 1: a great time. At eight thirty five, PM, he posted 21 00:01:18,605 --> 00:01:22,005 Speaker 1: a snap of himself hanging out with friends, looking happy 22 00:01:22,045 --> 00:01:25,925 Speaker 1: and chilled and dancing. More camera footage has come out 23 00:01:25,965 --> 00:01:28,845 Speaker 1: from inside the club. You can see him laughing and 24 00:01:28,885 --> 00:01:32,645 Speaker 1: having a great time. Eventually he made his way outside 25 00:01:32,685 --> 00:01:36,405 Speaker 1: the club, which closed at three am. After that, he 26 00:01:36,525 --> 00:01:40,205 Speaker 1: was sitting on a wall. At around four am he 27 00:01:40,325 --> 00:01:44,205 Speaker 1: started chatting to two other British men. Somehow they made 28 00:01:44,285 --> 00:01:47,325 Speaker 1: a plan to go on to those two guys Airbnb. 29 00:01:48,565 --> 00:01:53,205 Speaker 1: They left that club sometime after four am. He got 30 00:01:53,205 --> 00:01:55,405 Speaker 1: into a car with these two strangers and went back 31 00:01:55,405 --> 00:01:58,205 Speaker 1: to their airbnb, which was in a remote area about 32 00:01:58,205 --> 00:02:00,325 Speaker 1: an hour away from where Jay was staying in the 33 00:02:00,405 --> 00:02:05,325 Speaker 1: touristy resort area. The airbnb was near a small town 34 00:02:05,565 --> 00:02:10,405 Speaker 1: called Mascot. The next morning, Lucy got one last frantic 35 00:02:10,445 --> 00:02:13,605 Speaker 1: call from Jay a little after eight am, saying he 36 00:02:13,685 --> 00:02:15,965 Speaker 1: was lost, didn't know where he was, and that he 37 00:02:16,045 --> 00:02:22,965 Speaker 1: was panicked. That was the last time that anyone ever 38 00:02:23,045 --> 00:02:27,765 Speaker 1: heard from Jay Slater, because after that he disappeared. J Slater, 39 00:02:27,925 --> 00:02:31,085 Speaker 1: this healthy young man who had his entire life ahead 40 00:02:31,085 --> 00:02:34,925 Speaker 1: of him, was just gone, and what happened to him 41 00:02:35,285 --> 00:02:38,525 Speaker 1: has become a huge story in the UK and now 42 00:02:38,605 --> 00:02:42,805 Speaker 1: throughout the world. What did happen to him? Was he 43 00:02:42,925 --> 00:02:46,365 Speaker 1: kidnapped and murdered like a lot of people believe. Did 44 00:02:46,405 --> 00:02:50,085 Speaker 1: he wander off into the wilderness or did someone else 45 00:02:50,165 --> 00:02:52,525 Speaker 1: pull up alongside him on that narrow strip of road, 46 00:02:52,645 --> 00:02:56,725 Speaker 1: coax him into their car and drive off somewhere. This 47 00:02:56,925 --> 00:03:00,845 Speaker 1: case is wild. It is exposed the seedy underside of 48 00:03:00,885 --> 00:03:04,165 Speaker 1: this beautiful island and the criminal underworld that are operating there. 49 00:03:04,845 --> 00:03:08,805 Speaker 1: This case has taken over British news. Everyone from police 50 00:03:08,805 --> 00:03:12,405 Speaker 1: detectives to psychics and TikTok stars have descended on this 51 00:03:12,485 --> 00:03:15,805 Speaker 1: Spanish island in the Canaries. They're all trying to find 52 00:03:15,845 --> 00:03:18,325 Speaker 1: a young man who is partying and vanished about a 53 00:03:18,365 --> 00:03:21,805 Speaker 1: trace right in the middle of an island full of tourists. 54 00:03:22,685 --> 00:04:15,245 Speaker 1: I'm Catherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. If 55 00:04:15,285 --> 00:04:18,165 Speaker 1: you listen to this podcast, you know I don't normally 56 00:04:18,205 --> 00:04:21,125 Speaker 1: cover cases that are ongoing unless there's a good reason, 57 00:04:21,765 --> 00:04:25,045 Speaker 1: like a missing person's case that isn't getting attention, not 58 00:04:25,125 --> 00:04:27,525 Speaker 1: like this case, which actually is all over the news. 59 00:04:28,245 --> 00:04:31,685 Speaker 1: I prefer cold cases for several reasons. First of all, 60 00:04:31,805 --> 00:04:33,805 Speaker 1: I don't want to be one of those reporters that 61 00:04:33,885 --> 00:04:37,165 Speaker 1: stands on people's lawns right after tragedy and ask for 62 00:04:37,245 --> 00:04:41,845 Speaker 1: sound bites from grieving families. And even though we are 63 00:04:41,965 --> 00:04:45,885 Speaker 1: sometimes critical of the police when they are investigating a case, 64 00:04:46,045 --> 00:04:47,845 Speaker 1: I really don't want to get in the police's way. 65 00:04:48,765 --> 00:04:52,685 Speaker 1: But this case, the Jay Slater case, is fascinating. It's 66 00:04:52,725 --> 00:04:56,205 Speaker 1: fascinating for a couple of reasons. In my opinion, it's 67 00:04:56,205 --> 00:04:58,685 Speaker 1: a good lesson in what to do when a loved 68 00:04:58,725 --> 00:05:02,405 Speaker 1: one goes missing and what not to do because this 69 00:05:02,525 --> 00:05:06,605 Speaker 1: case has brought out some of the darkest, worse sides 70 00:05:06,645 --> 00:05:10,325 Speaker 1: of true crime journalism and of what they call black 71 00:05:10,405 --> 00:05:17,325 Speaker 1: tourism or murder tourism. A little background here. I used 72 00:05:17,325 --> 00:05:19,885 Speaker 1: to live in London. I work for a British newspaper 73 00:05:19,965 --> 00:05:22,605 Speaker 1: for several years for people who don't know that, and 74 00:05:22,685 --> 00:05:24,965 Speaker 1: I am an American citizen, but I also have a 75 00:05:24,965 --> 00:05:29,045 Speaker 1: British passport, so really London is like my second home. 76 00:05:29,525 --> 00:05:31,645 Speaker 1: I come here every summer. And when I came to 77 00:05:31,725 --> 00:05:35,445 Speaker 1: London this week, literally the entire country was talking about 78 00:05:35,445 --> 00:05:38,245 Speaker 1: this Jay Slater case. It reminded me a little bit 79 00:05:38,245 --> 00:05:40,485 Speaker 1: of the Natalie Halloway case in the US back in 80 00:05:40,525 --> 00:05:44,485 Speaker 1: two thousand and five. The difference is that since the 81 00:05:44,605 --> 00:05:48,565 Speaker 1: Natalie Hallway case, we have social media, so in addition 82 00:05:48,725 --> 00:05:52,445 Speaker 1: to this nationwide press coverage, we have all these amateur 83 00:05:52,485 --> 00:05:55,045 Speaker 1: detectives that have gone into a frenzy over this case. 84 00:05:56,045 --> 00:05:59,125 Speaker 1: As we said before, Jay's friend Lucy started to worry 85 00:05:59,125 --> 00:06:00,805 Speaker 1: the next morning when he didn't come back to the 86 00:06:00,805 --> 00:06:03,725 Speaker 1: resort where they were staying. This was a big resort 87 00:06:03,805 --> 00:06:07,045 Speaker 1: called Plia dea LA's America. It was about a forty 88 00:06:07,125 --> 00:06:10,765 Speaker 1: minute drive from their resort to the area where Jay 89 00:06:10,805 --> 00:06:13,445 Speaker 1: went with the two strangers. That was in a more 90 00:06:13,565 --> 00:06:16,365 Speaker 1: rural area in the north of the island, near a 91 00:06:16,445 --> 00:06:20,405 Speaker 1: park called Rural de Teno Park. This is a long 92 00:06:20,485 --> 00:06:23,165 Speaker 1: way from the Lively Beach resort area where they'd been 93 00:06:23,205 --> 00:06:26,125 Speaker 1: hanging around the night before. This park is in an 94 00:06:26,165 --> 00:06:31,125 Speaker 1: area that is remote popular with hikers. At around seven 95 00:06:31,245 --> 00:06:35,005 Speaker 1: thirty am the next morning, Jay had posted a snap 96 00:06:35,085 --> 00:06:38,445 Speaker 1: of a hand. We haven't seen this snap, but presumably 97 00:06:38,445 --> 00:06:41,405 Speaker 1: it was his hand holding a cigarette on the front 98 00:06:41,405 --> 00:06:45,205 Speaker 1: steps of that airbnb. We know it's that airbnb because 99 00:06:45,285 --> 00:06:48,285 Speaker 1: Lucy said you could see the tile pattern on the steps. 100 00:06:49,125 --> 00:06:52,685 Speaker 1: He called Lucy shortly after eight am. Now, some reports 101 00:06:52,725 --> 00:06:56,805 Speaker 1: at eight fifteen, but later it seemed like the correct 102 00:06:56,885 --> 00:07:00,885 Speaker 1: time was eight fifty am. He called her and sounded panics. 103 00:07:00,925 --> 00:07:03,165 Speaker 1: She said. He told her his phone was dying, he 104 00:07:03,205 --> 00:07:06,285 Speaker 1: only had one percent battery, he was thirsty, and he 105 00:07:06,325 --> 00:07:09,005 Speaker 1: did not know where he was. She wrote on the 106 00:07:09,045 --> 00:07:11,845 Speaker 1: go fundme page, quote, I woke up to a phone 107 00:07:11,885 --> 00:07:14,165 Speaker 1: call off Jay at eight thirty am, saying he was 108 00:07:14,205 --> 00:07:16,725 Speaker 1: lost in the mountains. He wasn't aware of his surroundings, 109 00:07:17,045 --> 00:07:19,685 Speaker 1: he desperately needed a drink, and his phone was on 110 00:07:19,685 --> 00:07:23,125 Speaker 1: one percent. He had met two people on Sunday night 111 00:07:23,245 --> 00:07:25,845 Speaker 1: and left with them to go to their apartment. Their 112 00:07:25,845 --> 00:07:29,085 Speaker 1: apartment was miles away from civilization and in a very 113 00:07:29,085 --> 00:07:33,805 Speaker 1: secluded location. End quote. Now, after this went down, a 114 00:07:33,845 --> 00:07:37,685 Speaker 1: lot of people asked did Lucy or Jay know these 115 00:07:37,725 --> 00:07:41,685 Speaker 1: guys before the night he vanished? The post on GoFundMe 116 00:07:41,765 --> 00:07:44,525 Speaker 1: that was made by Lucy, in my opinion, made it 117 00:07:44,565 --> 00:07:48,205 Speaker 1: sound like the two guys from the airbnb were complete strangers. 118 00:07:48,805 --> 00:07:51,845 Speaker 1: Later someone else would come forward to question that, but 119 00:07:51,925 --> 00:07:55,965 Speaker 1: we'll get back to that later. So, after Jay said 120 00:07:56,005 --> 00:07:59,645 Speaker 1: he was in trouble and lost, Lucy immediately went out 121 00:07:59,685 --> 00:08:03,725 Speaker 1: looking for him. Apparently that snap that Jay sent had 122 00:08:03,765 --> 00:08:07,485 Speaker 1: his location. That's how Lucy was able to find that 123 00:08:07,565 --> 00:08:10,805 Speaker 1: house so quickly. It's also the only house in that 124 00:08:10,925 --> 00:08:15,045 Speaker 1: area in the mountains. It's along a winding strip of roads, 125 00:08:15,085 --> 00:08:20,285 Speaker 1: surrounded by rural cliffs and very difficult terrain. She said 126 00:08:20,285 --> 00:08:22,325 Speaker 1: that she knocked on the door and that there were 127 00:08:22,325 --> 00:08:25,685 Speaker 1: two people there, presumably the two men whose airbnb it was. 128 00:08:26,485 --> 00:08:29,725 Speaker 1: According to Lucy, that morning, Jay had gone out for 129 00:08:29,765 --> 00:08:32,565 Speaker 1: a smoke, come back for a short time, and then 130 00:08:32,645 --> 00:08:35,605 Speaker 1: said he wanted to go home. After that, they said 131 00:08:35,605 --> 00:08:40,725 Speaker 1: he left now. According to media reports, Lucy said that 132 00:08:40,765 --> 00:08:44,325 Speaker 1: she believed that Jay may have been kidnapped, but after 133 00:08:44,365 --> 00:08:46,605 Speaker 1: he left the residence, he did talk to Lucy at 134 00:08:46,645 --> 00:08:50,565 Speaker 1: eight fifty and there was someone else in that remote 135 00:08:50,605 --> 00:08:55,405 Speaker 1: wilderness who saw Jay after he left the airbnb, so 136 00:08:55,765 --> 00:08:59,245 Speaker 1: someone did see him after he left the airbnb. The 137 00:08:59,405 --> 00:09:02,045 Speaker 1: last person to see Jay alive that we know about 138 00:09:02,925 --> 00:09:08,925 Speaker 1: was a woman, Ophelia Medina Hernandez. This was a neighbor 139 00:09:09,365 --> 00:09:13,245 Speaker 1: the person who owned the airbnb. She was interviewed by 140 00:09:13,285 --> 00:09:16,885 Speaker 1: British media and by the police. She said that when 141 00:09:16,925 --> 00:09:19,725 Speaker 1: she saw Jay that morning, right after he left the airbnb, 142 00:09:20,325 --> 00:09:22,885 Speaker 1: he was asking her about the bus. What time the 143 00:09:22,925 --> 00:09:25,045 Speaker 1: bus came, because there was a bus stop right in 144 00:09:25,045 --> 00:09:28,405 Speaker 1: front of the house. Apparently he was trying to get 145 00:09:28,405 --> 00:09:30,605 Speaker 1: a bus back down the hill, back in the direction 146 00:09:30,645 --> 00:09:33,245 Speaker 1: of Los Cristianos, which would have been the direction of 147 00:09:33,245 --> 00:09:36,125 Speaker 1: the resort where he was staying. You can see that 148 00:09:36,165 --> 00:09:39,045 Speaker 1: bus stop from the house. The woman said she told 149 00:09:39,125 --> 00:09:42,125 Speaker 1: him the bus was at ten am. She didn't really 150 00:09:42,165 --> 00:09:45,245 Speaker 1: speak English, so she held up ten fingers to signal 151 00:09:45,285 --> 00:09:49,085 Speaker 1: that she meant ten. So if that bus came at 152 00:09:49,125 --> 00:09:51,725 Speaker 1: ten o'clock, he would have had over an hour to 153 00:09:51,765 --> 00:09:55,365 Speaker 1: wait at that bus stop. The woman said later that 154 00:09:55,445 --> 00:09:58,405 Speaker 1: she saw Jay one more time. She said she passed 155 00:09:58,405 --> 00:10:01,165 Speaker 1: by him in her car about fifteen minutes later after 156 00:10:01,165 --> 00:10:04,845 Speaker 1: they had that conversation, But she said something strange. She said, 157 00:10:04,885 --> 00:10:08,045 Speaker 1: he was walked looking uphill, so in the opposite direction 158 00:10:08,085 --> 00:10:11,565 Speaker 1: from town. She said, quote, he was alone, he was 159 00:10:11,605 --> 00:10:15,525 Speaker 1: walking normally, though he was walking fast end quote. So 160 00:10:15,805 --> 00:10:18,725 Speaker 1: what made him lead the bus stop and why was 161 00:10:18,765 --> 00:10:22,165 Speaker 1: he walking uphill toward the middle of nowhere instead of 162 00:10:22,245 --> 00:10:30,365 Speaker 1: downhill toward town. Jay's phone died just after eight p 163 00:10:30,445 --> 00:10:33,965 Speaker 1: fifty am. The last ping was from an area near 164 00:10:33,965 --> 00:10:38,885 Speaker 1: a hiking trail uphill from the airbnb. Lucy reported Jay 165 00:10:38,925 --> 00:10:42,045 Speaker 1: missing to police and started looking for him. She met 166 00:10:42,085 --> 00:10:44,285 Speaker 1: someone who gave her a ride. They drove around the 167 00:10:44,285 --> 00:10:46,645 Speaker 1: mountains all day. She said she thought she would see 168 00:10:46,725 --> 00:10:49,525 Speaker 1: Jay walking along the road, but he was just gone. 169 00:10:50,525 --> 00:10:53,765 Speaker 1: Authorities in Spain contacted Jay's mother, fifty five year old 170 00:10:53,805 --> 00:10:56,685 Speaker 1: Debbie Duncan, and his father Warren back in the UK. 171 00:10:57,405 --> 00:11:01,005 Speaker 1: Debbie and Warren and Jay's brother immediately flew over to Spain. 172 00:11:01,805 --> 00:11:08,165 Speaker 1: Pretty soon there was a massive search being done the police, firefighters, volunteers, 173 00:11:08,685 --> 00:11:14,085 Speaker 1: people with canine dogs, drones and helicopters. Tenerief is the 174 00:11:14,245 --> 00:11:17,325 Speaker 1: largest of the Canary Islands. There are seven of them 175 00:11:17,365 --> 00:11:21,005 Speaker 1: and they are geographically located near North Africa. Because they 176 00:11:21,005 --> 00:11:23,445 Speaker 1: are just a short flight from the UK a little 177 00:11:23,445 --> 00:11:27,845 Speaker 1: over four hours. The Canary Islands are very popular tourist 178 00:11:27,885 --> 00:11:31,765 Speaker 1: destinations for British people. A lot of people come to 179 00:11:31,925 --> 00:11:35,365 Speaker 1: these islands to party and soak up the sun. There 180 00:11:35,445 --> 00:11:39,005 Speaker 1: is a huge bar culture, drinking, dancing and of course 181 00:11:39,045 --> 00:11:42,645 Speaker 1: some drug use that comes along with going out and partying, 182 00:11:42,685 --> 00:11:44,285 Speaker 1: and a lot of young people being in a rave. 183 00:11:45,525 --> 00:11:49,045 Speaker 1: Early in the investigation, Lucy was kind of criticizing the 184 00:11:49,045 --> 00:11:52,445 Speaker 1: Spanish police she seemed to be a mysterious figure herself 185 00:11:52,925 --> 00:11:56,085 Speaker 1: when she did interviews, she had her identity hidden. She 186 00:11:56,205 --> 00:11:59,845 Speaker 1: was just kind of this dark silhouette. Basically, she said 187 00:11:59,885 --> 00:12:02,885 Speaker 1: the local authorities in Spain had fobbed her off. She 188 00:12:03,005 --> 00:12:06,245 Speaker 1: said she believed they were not taking Jay's disapp hearent seriously. 189 00:12:07,245 --> 00:12:09,765 Speaker 1: She also asked, by the way, why the Spanish police 190 00:12:09,765 --> 00:12:12,925 Speaker 1: did not have a translator after three days, which is 191 00:12:13,005 --> 00:12:15,805 Speaker 1: reasonable because it's not like English to Spanish translators are 192 00:12:15,805 --> 00:12:19,485 Speaker 1: hard to find. But also, unfortunately, the Spanish media seemed 193 00:12:19,525 --> 00:12:22,045 Speaker 1: to kind of have an issue with this and seemed to, 194 00:12:22,125 --> 00:12:24,965 Speaker 1: at least at first, kind of in my opinion, paint 195 00:12:25,005 --> 00:12:28,845 Speaker 1: her as this demanding foreigner. Unfortunately, that happens in a 196 00:12:28,885 --> 00:12:32,205 Speaker 1: lot of these cases. Pretty soon a lot of online 197 00:12:32,285 --> 00:12:36,485 Speaker 1: commenters were speculating about Lucy. A lot of people were asking, 198 00:12:36,565 --> 00:12:38,845 Speaker 1: how was this young woman able to take so many 199 00:12:38,845 --> 00:12:41,925 Speaker 1: foreign holidays? How did she pay for them? Was she 200 00:12:42,085 --> 00:12:44,725 Speaker 1: some kind of drug mule? By the way, there's absolutely 201 00:12:44,845 --> 00:12:47,445 Speaker 1: zero evidence for any of this, and I can totally 202 00:12:47,525 --> 00:12:50,445 Speaker 1: understand why Lucy would have wanted to hide her identity 203 00:12:50,525 --> 00:12:54,485 Speaker 1: exactly for this reason. Because people started to get very 204 00:12:54,485 --> 00:12:57,925 Speaker 1: involved in this investigation, they were following it on social media. 205 00:12:58,725 --> 00:13:02,485 Speaker 1: Lucy did something else. She set up a GoFundMe campaign, and, 206 00:13:02,645 --> 00:13:06,205 Speaker 1: as we know from listening to True Crime podcast, since 207 00:13:06,285 --> 00:13:11,005 Speaker 1: every decision that family members or friends make early an investigation, 208 00:13:11,125 --> 00:13:13,845 Speaker 1: unfortunately can be criticized, this is one of the biggest 209 00:13:13,845 --> 00:13:18,205 Speaker 1: areas for criticism. What happens with these gofundmes? Where did 210 00:13:18,205 --> 00:13:20,805 Speaker 1: the money go? Why did the friends started and not 211 00:13:20,885 --> 00:13:24,445 Speaker 1: the mom. This prompted Jay's mother, Debbie, to post an update. 212 00:13:25,365 --> 00:13:28,285 Speaker 1: She said they would be using the funds for travel 213 00:13:28,365 --> 00:13:31,885 Speaker 1: and lodging and to support the Spanish authorities. As of 214 00:13:31,965 --> 00:13:34,485 Speaker 1: June twenty seventh, by the way, the go fundme had 215 00:13:34,525 --> 00:13:38,485 Speaker 1: received around forty thousand pounds a little over fifty thousand dollars. 216 00:13:39,405 --> 00:13:42,365 Speaker 1: So the police were wondering how in the world did 217 00:13:42,365 --> 00:13:48,925 Speaker 1: this young man just disappear. They talked to the two 218 00:13:49,005 --> 00:13:52,045 Speaker 1: men whom Jay had gone home with, and it seemed 219 00:13:52,045 --> 00:13:55,365 Speaker 1: like they were mystified too. Police said the two men 220 00:13:55,485 --> 00:13:59,365 Speaker 1: answered their questions, they cooperated, and they voluntarily stayed on 221 00:13:59,405 --> 00:14:02,845 Speaker 1: the island for extra day. They said that the Spanish 222 00:14:02,845 --> 00:14:05,365 Speaker 1: police had their names, addresses and all their personal dey 223 00:14:05,565 --> 00:14:09,645 Speaker 1: tales before those two men flew back to the UK. Now, 224 00:14:09,685 --> 00:14:12,885 Speaker 1: a lot of online commenters made statements like how could 225 00:14:12,925 --> 00:14:17,085 Speaker 1: Jay's friends leave him alone? But honestly, I find that 226 00:14:17,405 --> 00:14:19,885 Speaker 1: probably the easiest part of the story to believe, because 227 00:14:20,005 --> 00:14:23,685 Speaker 1: we see this over and over. We see that there's 228 00:14:23,725 --> 00:14:26,645 Speaker 1: a lot of press about young women being preyed on 229 00:14:26,965 --> 00:14:30,085 Speaker 1: whether they're at home or when they're on vacation, but 230 00:14:30,285 --> 00:14:33,605 Speaker 1: young men are generally less careful about these things. There's 231 00:14:33,765 --> 00:14:37,005 Speaker 1: much less awareness about the danger that a young man 232 00:14:37,405 --> 00:14:40,765 Speaker 1: can feel when he's on his own. And people do 233 00:14:40,885 --> 00:14:43,805 Speaker 1: disappear in Tenerief, even though the crime rate on the 234 00:14:43,805 --> 00:14:47,325 Speaker 1: island is pretty low. Sometimes they wander off into the 235 00:14:47,405 --> 00:14:50,605 Speaker 1: rough terrain and fall through ravines or get trapped there. 236 00:14:51,125 --> 00:14:54,325 Speaker 1: But then a lot of people speculated maybe Jay got 237 00:14:54,365 --> 00:14:57,685 Speaker 1: involved in some kind of drug trade. There is a 238 00:14:57,765 --> 00:15:01,405 Speaker 1: drug trade, an underground criminal element on Tenerief. It's been 239 00:15:01,445 --> 00:15:04,605 Speaker 1: described as an island where the Italian mob is very active. 240 00:15:05,085 --> 00:15:07,885 Speaker 1: It's all been described as one of the islands of 241 00:15:07,925 --> 00:15:11,045 Speaker 1: what they call geostrategic importance when it comes to international 242 00:15:11,125 --> 00:15:17,325 Speaker 1: drug trafficking. Because the case made national and then international news, 243 00:15:17,765 --> 00:15:21,285 Speaker 1: there were sightings of Jay everywhere, all of them to 244 00:15:21,325 --> 00:15:24,965 Speaker 1: this date have been unbeverified. The rumors continued to fly. 245 00:15:26,285 --> 00:15:29,325 Speaker 1: Some people said Jay lost a bag full of drugs 246 00:15:29,525 --> 00:15:32,125 Speaker 1: and he was being held hostage until the money was paid. 247 00:15:32,765 --> 00:15:35,685 Speaker 1: There were a lot of crazy conspiracy theories flying around, 248 00:15:36,125 --> 00:15:38,685 Speaker 1: each one a little more unbelievable than the next, and 249 00:15:38,725 --> 00:15:41,885 Speaker 1: a lot of them entered around this go fundme money 250 00:15:42,365 --> 00:15:46,565 Speaker 1: that somehow Jay's family or friends had set up this 251 00:15:46,565 --> 00:15:48,925 Speaker 1: GoFundMe to repay a drug debt. This was all some 252 00:15:49,285 --> 00:15:53,085 Speaker 1: elaborate scheme, which really should have seemed totally ridiculous from 253 00:15:53,085 --> 00:15:55,925 Speaker 1: the beginning, but people were continuing to repeat stuff like this. 254 00:15:57,645 --> 00:16:00,205 Speaker 1: Then on Saturday, Jane twenty second, there was a break 255 00:16:00,205 --> 00:16:02,965 Speaker 1: in the case. There was a reported sighting of Jay 256 00:16:03,045 --> 00:16:06,725 Speaker 1: in Santiago del tier Day, a town that's about five 257 00:16:06,765 --> 00:16:10,165 Speaker 1: miles away from Masca, the nearest small town to that airbnb. 258 00:16:11,045 --> 00:16:14,045 Speaker 1: Someone said they saw Jay there with two men outside 259 00:16:14,045 --> 00:16:16,125 Speaker 1: of church. That would have been on the day he 260 00:16:16,205 --> 00:16:19,405 Speaker 1: disappeared at around six pm in the evening. There was 261 00:16:19,485 --> 00:16:22,805 Speaker 1: blurry footage outside that church, but no confirmed sighting of Jay. 262 00:16:23,525 --> 00:16:25,845 Speaker 1: There was another rumor he had been spotted watching a 263 00:16:25,885 --> 00:16:28,525 Speaker 1: football match. Now this is all going on in the 264 00:16:28,525 --> 00:16:31,405 Speaker 1: middle of the Euro twenty four matches. It was reported 265 00:16:31,445 --> 00:16:34,565 Speaker 1: in the press that the mayor of that town, Santiago d'ltierede, 266 00:16:34,885 --> 00:16:37,885 Speaker 1: said that the Spanish police had spoken to several people 267 00:16:37,925 --> 00:16:41,405 Speaker 1: who may have seen j Now. I mention this because 268 00:16:41,445 --> 00:16:44,165 Speaker 1: it's a really good example of how in these situations, 269 00:16:44,205 --> 00:16:47,285 Speaker 1: when there's fast breaking news, rumors start flying and things 270 00:16:47,285 --> 00:16:50,965 Speaker 1: do not get corrected. So the rumors started because the 271 00:16:51,045 --> 00:16:56,485 Speaker 1: mayor mentioned he heard someone saw j Now somehow in 272 00:16:56,605 --> 00:16:59,205 Speaker 1: some of the news reporting that became, it was definitely 273 00:16:59,285 --> 00:17:02,325 Speaker 1: Jay and he was watching football. But by the time 274 00:17:02,565 --> 00:17:05,485 Speaker 1: police went there to question people and other news organizations 275 00:17:05,605 --> 00:17:08,845 Speaker 1: showed up, they got the real story. The mayor had 276 00:17:08,925 --> 00:17:11,365 Speaker 1: heard people saying that they saw a young man who 277 00:17:11,445 --> 00:17:14,445 Speaker 1: may have matched Jay's description. Now, of course Jay had 278 00:17:14,485 --> 00:17:17,165 Speaker 1: a very general look. He's a young tan guy on 279 00:17:17,285 --> 00:17:20,445 Speaker 1: vacation and with his darker skin and hair and kind 280 00:17:20,485 --> 00:17:23,365 Speaker 1: of alive complexion. Honestly, he could have been a local 281 00:17:23,525 --> 00:17:26,445 Speaker 1: or a tourist. Clearly, they just saw someone who looked 282 00:17:26,525 --> 00:17:31,365 Speaker 1: vaguely like Jay. It was not Jay. So it's natural 283 00:17:31,365 --> 00:17:34,445 Speaker 1: to ask a question in a case like this, how 284 00:17:34,485 --> 00:17:37,885 Speaker 1: common is it to go missing in a place like this? Well. 285 00:17:37,965 --> 00:17:41,405 Speaker 1: The Independent newspaper did a super interesting synopsis of other 286 00:17:41,485 --> 00:17:44,045 Speaker 1: men who were from the UK and went missing in 287 00:17:44,125 --> 00:17:48,725 Speaker 1: Tenerief and have never been found. There was Billy Bennett, 288 00:17:48,725 --> 00:17:51,725 Speaker 1: who was eighteen when he disappeared. He was on vacation 289 00:17:51,925 --> 00:17:54,765 Speaker 1: in Tenerief in December of nineteen eighty five. He was 290 00:17:54,805 --> 00:17:56,565 Speaker 1: supposed to go to the island with a friend of his, 291 00:17:56,765 --> 00:18:00,405 Speaker 1: but the friend couldn't go, so Billy went alone. He 292 00:18:00,605 --> 00:18:03,805 Speaker 1: stayed at the Los America's Resort, the same resort where 293 00:18:03,845 --> 00:18:08,165 Speaker 1: Jay stayed. He went to a nightclub often called the 294 00:18:08,205 --> 00:18:11,765 Speaker 1: Sergeant Pepper's Nightclub. The friend who was supposed to go 295 00:18:11,805 --> 00:18:14,285 Speaker 1: on the trip talked to the press later. He said 296 00:18:14,325 --> 00:18:16,445 Speaker 1: that later he did go to Tenerief, he met up 297 00:18:16,445 --> 00:18:19,325 Speaker 1: with Billy. He said Billy was, in his words, worse 298 00:18:19,365 --> 00:18:22,325 Speaker 1: for wear. He said Billy told him that he lost 299 00:18:22,365 --> 00:18:24,485 Speaker 1: all of his money and was worried about having somewhere 300 00:18:24,485 --> 00:18:28,405 Speaker 1: to go. Billy was never heard from again. In nineteen 301 00:18:28,445 --> 00:18:31,525 Speaker 1: eighty seven, there was a similar story another young guy, 302 00:18:31,605 --> 00:18:34,565 Speaker 1: a twenty three year old named Ricky Deacatta. He went 303 00:18:34,605 --> 00:18:36,965 Speaker 1: to Tenerif in March of nineteen eighty seven to party 304 00:18:37,445 --> 00:18:40,925 Speaker 1: and never came home. He was working a season out 305 00:18:40,965 --> 00:18:42,925 Speaker 1: in Tenerief, which a lot of young people in the 306 00:18:43,005 --> 00:18:46,445 Speaker 1: UK do to earn money. Interestingly, he worked in the 307 00:18:46,485 --> 00:18:49,885 Speaker 1: same club that Billy frequented, the Sergeant Pepper's Disco pub 308 00:18:50,165 --> 00:18:53,805 Speaker 1: in the Plia Delas America's resort. His sister was interviewed 309 00:18:53,805 --> 00:18:55,965 Speaker 1: by the Independent newspaper back in two thousand and one. 310 00:18:56,685 --> 00:19:00,325 Speaker 1: She said that Ricky was a loving, caring brother. She 311 00:19:00,365 --> 00:19:03,005 Speaker 1: said he was super excited about going to work in Spain. 312 00:19:03,805 --> 00:19:05,565 Speaker 1: She said she talked to him and he said he 313 00:19:05,605 --> 00:19:08,285 Speaker 1: was planning to come home. He called in October to 314 00:19:08,325 --> 00:19:10,765 Speaker 1: ask for forty pounds for a ticket home for Christmas. 315 00:19:11,365 --> 00:19:13,565 Speaker 1: Then she said she called him and confirmed that he 316 00:19:13,605 --> 00:19:17,445 Speaker 1: did get that ticket money. But Ricky never showed up 317 00:19:17,445 --> 00:19:21,085 Speaker 1: for Christmas and his family never saw him again. His 318 00:19:21,285 --> 00:19:25,005 Speaker 1: passport was handed in to Spanish authorities, his bag was 319 00:19:25,045 --> 00:19:29,005 Speaker 1: given to the police, so eventually his parents got his 320 00:19:29,125 --> 00:19:32,485 Speaker 1: passport and his stuff back, but had no idea what 321 00:19:32,565 --> 00:19:35,925 Speaker 1: happened to Ricky. There's actually a lot more to this story. 322 00:19:35,965 --> 00:19:38,365 Speaker 1: There was a documentary made about the case called Looking 323 00:19:38,365 --> 00:19:41,725 Speaker 1: for Ricky. They did testing on five bodies that were 324 00:19:41,725 --> 00:19:46,205 Speaker 1: founded Tenery that the tests were inconclusive. The documentary put 325 00:19:46,285 --> 00:19:49,205 Speaker 1: forward the theory that Ricky may be indirectly involved in 326 00:19:49,205 --> 00:19:51,685 Speaker 1: the drug trade and tenery basically that he may have 327 00:19:51,765 --> 00:19:56,005 Speaker 1: annoyed the wrong person, but no one has ever been 328 00:19:56,085 --> 00:19:59,965 Speaker 1: arrested or charged in this case. In two thousand and four, 329 00:20:00,365 --> 00:20:04,565 Speaker 1: another brit named Kevin Ainley disappeared. He also had moved 330 00:20:04,565 --> 00:20:08,325 Speaker 1: to the same area. Just three months after moving there 331 00:20:08,405 --> 00:20:11,965 Speaker 1: in June of two thousand and four, he vanished. So 332 00:20:12,805 --> 00:20:15,765 Speaker 1: young men who go to Tenerif to have a good 333 00:20:15,805 --> 00:20:20,725 Speaker 1: time have disappeared over the years, some under mysterious circumstances. 334 00:20:22,365 --> 00:20:26,765 Speaker 1: But going back to Jay's case, a lot of people 335 00:20:26,805 --> 00:20:29,325 Speaker 1: were trying to figure out where the last place that 336 00:20:29,365 --> 00:20:32,285 Speaker 1: he was actually seen was. Could something have happened to 337 00:20:32,325 --> 00:20:37,085 Speaker 1: him in that airbnb? And then things started to get 338 00:20:37,125 --> 00:20:39,845 Speaker 1: even more crazy in the case because a lot of 339 00:20:39,885 --> 00:20:43,285 Speaker 1: people started flying out to Tenerif from the UK to 340 00:20:43,365 --> 00:20:46,845 Speaker 1: insert themselves into the investigation. I don't want to sound 341 00:20:46,885 --> 00:20:49,485 Speaker 1: like the pot calling the kettle black here because I 342 00:20:49,685 --> 00:20:51,885 Speaker 1: in the past have been accused of doing the same 343 00:20:51,925 --> 00:20:55,125 Speaker 1: thing when a case is not getting attention after a 344 00:20:55,165 --> 00:20:58,045 Speaker 1: long time. Yes, I have inserted myself into it, but 345 00:20:58,965 --> 00:21:02,525 Speaker 1: I do feel strongly that in the beginning of a case, 346 00:21:02,645 --> 00:21:05,325 Speaker 1: when the police are actively investigating, we have to let 347 00:21:05,365 --> 00:21:08,765 Speaker 1: them do their jobs, and I think it's important to 348 00:21:08,765 --> 00:21:12,805 Speaker 1: follow journalistic standards. It's fine to ask the police questions, 349 00:21:13,125 --> 00:21:16,085 Speaker 1: even aggressively, and to demand the truth, but we have 350 00:21:16,165 --> 00:21:19,405 Speaker 1: to maintain ethics in true crime reporting. One of the 351 00:21:19,405 --> 00:21:22,845 Speaker 1: most important rules to follow is not to waste police 352 00:21:22,885 --> 00:21:26,085 Speaker 1: time or distract from the investigation, and people do not 353 00:21:26,205 --> 00:21:29,565 Speaker 1: seem to be following that rule here. TikTokers have shown 354 00:21:29,605 --> 00:21:33,325 Speaker 1: up in Tenery by the dozens and so of journalists. 355 00:21:34,125 --> 00:21:37,125 Speaker 1: There's one female journalist from an ITV morning show by 356 00:21:37,165 --> 00:21:39,605 Speaker 1: the way, that's one of the main channels in the UK. 357 00:21:40,405 --> 00:21:43,165 Speaker 1: She literally has teamed up with one of the British 358 00:21:43,205 --> 00:21:46,925 Speaker 1: TikTok stars and they're taking selfies together now. To be fair, 359 00:21:46,965 --> 00:21:50,085 Speaker 1: at least the TikToker, whose name is Paul arn't at 360 00:21:50,165 --> 00:21:53,765 Speaker 1: least he's a seasoned hiker. He says he did contact 361 00:21:53,765 --> 00:21:56,645 Speaker 1: the authorities and that he got the go ahead to 362 00:21:56,805 --> 00:21:59,565 Speaker 1: go out and search on his own. He's been posting 363 00:21:59,645 --> 00:22:03,525 Speaker 1: lots of videos of himself with a camera, walking through 364 00:22:03,645 --> 00:22:07,725 Speaker 1: cactus and shooting the airbnb with what looks like a 365 00:22:07,805 --> 00:22:12,165 Speaker 1: long telephoto lens. It is surreal these bloggers are showing 366 00:22:12,205 --> 00:22:14,365 Speaker 1: up with drones and cameras, and there's been a lot 367 00:22:14,365 --> 00:22:17,885 Speaker 1: of criticism that not only are they not helping, they 368 00:22:17,965 --> 00:22:22,765 Speaker 1: may be making things worse. A lot of people wondered 369 00:22:22,805 --> 00:22:25,885 Speaker 1: about the two men who Jay was partying with. Who 370 00:22:25,925 --> 00:22:28,685 Speaker 1: were they, why were they staying in an airbnb on 371 00:22:28,765 --> 00:22:31,645 Speaker 1: an isolated part of the island, what were they doing 372 00:22:31,645 --> 00:22:35,525 Speaker 1: there and did they know Jay beforehand? But just like 373 00:22:35,565 --> 00:22:40,605 Speaker 1: in America, in an open investigation, police do not reveal 374 00:22:40,645 --> 00:22:43,245 Speaker 1: a lot of information, the Spanish police were no different. 375 00:22:44,125 --> 00:22:47,525 Speaker 1: Police did question the two men. According to media reports, 376 00:22:48,005 --> 00:22:50,685 Speaker 1: one of them is known by the nickname Johnny Vegas. 377 00:22:51,405 --> 00:22:55,125 Speaker 1: They're both British. Spanish police questioned the two men. They 378 00:22:55,165 --> 00:22:58,605 Speaker 1: said that they were cooperative. Police did get their passports 379 00:22:58,645 --> 00:23:01,805 Speaker 1: and their information, and then the two men flew home 380 00:23:01,965 --> 00:23:05,845 Speaker 1: back to Luton in the UK. In addition, a lot 381 00:23:05,885 --> 00:23:08,525 Speaker 1: of tourists have started flying over to Tenerief, which I 382 00:23:08,525 --> 00:23:14,525 Speaker 1: find absolutely fascinating. Groups of tourists in jeeps driving around 383 00:23:15,045 --> 00:23:19,245 Speaker 1: and taking selfies from the crime scene. They call it 384 00:23:19,365 --> 00:23:24,285 Speaker 1: dark tourism, and I noticed that in a vacuum of information, 385 00:23:24,645 --> 00:23:29,365 Speaker 1: commenters do make certain criticisms. Side note, laws in European 386 00:23:29,405 --> 00:23:32,445 Speaker 1: countries are very different to laws in the US, and 387 00:23:33,045 --> 00:23:37,165 Speaker 1: police do things differently. For example, they aren't allowed to 388 00:23:37,285 --> 00:23:41,205 Speaker 1: light to suspects in Europe, so they can't, for example, 389 00:23:41,365 --> 00:23:44,085 Speaker 1: throw two guys in an interrogation room and tell each 390 00:23:44,165 --> 00:23:46,525 Speaker 1: one that the other one said they did it. They're 391 00:23:46,565 --> 00:23:48,845 Speaker 1: not allowed to do stuff like that. They have to 392 00:23:48,845 --> 00:23:51,485 Speaker 1: go about their evidence gathering in a very different and 393 00:23:51,605 --> 00:23:56,005 Speaker 1: much more low key way. Another reason why I like 394 00:23:56,045 --> 00:23:59,485 Speaker 1: to cover cold cases is that I find if you 395 00:23:59,565 --> 00:24:03,045 Speaker 1: have a case that's actually grabbing headlines, you always have 396 00:24:03,205 --> 00:24:05,965 Speaker 1: people and I call them the obligatory expert. These people 397 00:24:05,965 --> 00:24:08,565 Speaker 1: who kind of rushed to the scene, they start trying 398 00:24:08,605 --> 00:24:11,485 Speaker 1: to solve things, and I'm putting solved in air quotes. Really, 399 00:24:11,525 --> 00:24:13,925 Speaker 1: in my opinion, they're trying to grab headlines for themselves 400 00:24:14,365 --> 00:24:17,205 Speaker 1: and inevitably they get in the way the police. Well, 401 00:24:17,285 --> 00:24:19,765 Speaker 1: there's one of those experts in the United Kingdom. He's 402 00:24:19,765 --> 00:24:23,565 Speaker 1: a former police detective named Mark Williams Thomas. Now he's 403 00:24:23,605 --> 00:24:27,165 Speaker 1: a TV expert. So early in the case he said 404 00:24:27,165 --> 00:24:29,125 Speaker 1: he made contact with the family and he made this 405 00:24:29,205 --> 00:24:31,725 Speaker 1: big public statement and said he could get answers for 406 00:24:31,765 --> 00:24:34,765 Speaker 1: the family in three days, so he flew to Tenerif 407 00:24:34,845 --> 00:24:37,925 Speaker 1: and held a press conference. This part was interesting because 408 00:24:37,965 --> 00:24:41,405 Speaker 1: Mark said he was working with the family. The family 409 00:24:41,525 --> 00:24:44,845 Speaker 1: wasn't there. He said this was because the Spanish police 410 00:24:45,045 --> 00:24:48,605 Speaker 1: had not officially sanctioned this press conference. He said he 411 00:24:48,685 --> 00:24:51,565 Speaker 1: wanted to be able to get information without alienating the authorities. 412 00:24:52,085 --> 00:24:55,845 Speaker 1: But he said very publicly he was looking for these 413 00:24:55,885 --> 00:24:59,045 Speaker 1: two witnesses, the guys who Jay had partied with back 414 00:24:59,085 --> 00:25:02,765 Speaker 1: at the airbnb. He said that he was appealing for 415 00:25:02,805 --> 00:25:07,285 Speaker 1: these mystery men to come forward, but honestly, the police 416 00:25:07,325 --> 00:25:09,765 Speaker 1: had already said they talked to these men. The Spanish 417 00:25:09,765 --> 00:25:12,445 Speaker 1: police said they had their details. The two men had 418 00:25:12,445 --> 00:25:15,765 Speaker 1: stayed for an extra day in Tenerif, and then they'd 419 00:25:15,805 --> 00:25:18,165 Speaker 1: flown back to the UK. So the Spanish police know 420 00:25:18,165 --> 00:25:20,565 Speaker 1: who these people are. There's no need for these men 421 00:25:20,605 --> 00:25:24,245 Speaker 1: to come forward and talk to a TV detective. But 422 00:25:24,485 --> 00:25:27,005 Speaker 1: Mark did pose an interesting question in the flurry of 423 00:25:27,045 --> 00:25:30,925 Speaker 1: all this publicity. He said, quote, what we don't know 424 00:25:31,045 --> 00:25:33,645 Speaker 1: is why, if they were partying here, they went to 425 00:25:33,685 --> 00:25:36,125 Speaker 1: a holiday rental around an hour away in a really 426 00:25:36,165 --> 00:25:39,125 Speaker 1: remote location. I don't know the answer to that. But 427 00:25:39,125 --> 00:25:42,125 Speaker 1: my focus is to find those people. I am giving 428 00:25:42,125 --> 00:25:45,405 Speaker 1: them the opportunity to come forward. They are crucial witnesses 429 00:25:45,845 --> 00:25:50,845 Speaker 1: and ask questions that could get answers. End quote. Again, 430 00:25:51,285 --> 00:25:53,605 Speaker 1: I don't really understand why these men would need to 431 00:25:53,645 --> 00:25:56,245 Speaker 1: come forward and talk to him, but I do think 432 00:25:56,245 --> 00:25:59,365 Speaker 1: that it's a good idea to appeal for anyone who 433 00:25:59,405 --> 00:26:02,565 Speaker 1: may have been on those roads, on those skinny roads 434 00:26:02,605 --> 00:26:06,925 Speaker 1: around Mascot the time Jay disappeared to come forward. Jay 435 00:26:07,045 --> 00:26:09,725 Speaker 1: might have wandered off the road, but we can't rule 436 00:26:09,725 --> 00:26:11,885 Speaker 1: out the theory that someone could have picked him up there. 437 00:26:13,245 --> 00:26:17,445 Speaker 1: Mark Williams Thomas had another update on July third. According 438 00:26:17,485 --> 00:26:20,845 Speaker 1: to the Lancashire Telegraph, Mark said that while Jay was 439 00:26:20,925 --> 00:26:23,045 Speaker 1: riding with those two guys in the car on the 440 00:26:23,085 --> 00:26:26,845 Speaker 1: way back to their airbnb, that Jay had allegedly posted 441 00:26:26,885 --> 00:26:30,885 Speaker 1: a snapchat saying that he had stolen a twelve thousand 442 00:26:30,965 --> 00:26:34,445 Speaker 1: pound Rolex watch off someone back at the club. Mark 443 00:26:34,485 --> 00:26:37,805 Speaker 1: told the newspaper quote, We've been unable to validate this 444 00:26:37,925 --> 00:26:40,765 Speaker 1: in terms of reported thefts. Friends of Jay said he 445 00:26:40,805 --> 00:26:43,485 Speaker 1: would not make this up and the watch was subject 446 00:26:43,525 --> 00:26:48,245 Speaker 1: to later conversation between the friends end quote. So people 447 00:26:48,325 --> 00:26:52,245 Speaker 1: are talking about this stolen rolex online. It's also been 448 00:26:52,285 --> 00:26:55,045 Speaker 1: reported that after the club where Jay was partying closed 449 00:26:55,445 --> 00:26:57,645 Speaker 1: that a fight broke out after a man said that 450 00:26:57,685 --> 00:27:00,805 Speaker 1: his watch was stolen, but again there's no proof of 451 00:27:00,845 --> 00:27:05,165 Speaker 1: this yet. Mark also said, quote, We've received information that 452 00:27:05,205 --> 00:27:08,885 Speaker 1: would suggests Jay left the rental property feeling scared. He 453 00:27:08,885 --> 00:27:11,205 Speaker 1: would not return to the rental, even though that would 454 00:27:11,205 --> 00:27:13,965 Speaker 1: have been the most sensible course of action. We continue 455 00:27:14,005 --> 00:27:18,885 Speaker 1: to investigate this aspect end quote. But again there's no 456 00:27:18,965 --> 00:27:21,805 Speaker 1: proof of this. The Spanish police have said the two 457 00:27:21,845 --> 00:27:26,045 Speaker 1: British men, who again have cooperated completely and flown home, 458 00:27:26,645 --> 00:27:31,725 Speaker 1: are irrelevant to the investigation. They actually use the word irrelevant. 459 00:27:32,525 --> 00:27:36,125 Speaker 1: Then another friend came forward. It turned out that Lucy 460 00:27:36,405 --> 00:27:38,565 Speaker 1: may not have been the last person to talk to Jay, 461 00:27:39,005 --> 00:27:41,845 Speaker 1: because Brad, the third friend who was with Lucy and 462 00:27:41,925 --> 00:27:45,645 Speaker 1: Jay in Tenerife, made his own video. He said that 463 00:27:45,725 --> 00:27:47,765 Speaker 1: he talked to Jay on the morning he went missing. 464 00:27:48,365 --> 00:27:50,245 Speaker 1: He said they had a video chat and that in 465 00:27:50,285 --> 00:27:53,485 Speaker 1: that call, Jay was walking out there in the wilderness, 466 00:27:54,005 --> 00:27:56,445 Speaker 1: and he said Jay told him he had been walking 467 00:27:56,445 --> 00:27:59,845 Speaker 1: for thirty minutes, that he was taking a shortcut. Brad 468 00:27:59,925 --> 00:28:02,805 Speaker 1: said it sounded like Jay may have been slipping out there, 469 00:28:03,125 --> 00:28:07,525 Speaker 1: maybe on loose stones. Brad also cleared something else up. 470 00:28:08,485 --> 00:28:11,965 Speaker 1: He said that he, Jay and Lucy did know the 471 00:28:11,965 --> 00:28:14,765 Speaker 1: two men from the airbnb. He said they had been 472 00:28:14,765 --> 00:28:17,565 Speaker 1: talking to those guys and hanging out for a couple 473 00:28:17,565 --> 00:28:23,805 Speaker 1: of days before Jay disappeared. So I do wonder why 474 00:28:24,005 --> 00:28:26,765 Speaker 1: Jay didn't want to go back to the Airbnb. Did 475 00:28:26,805 --> 00:28:29,325 Speaker 1: something unpleasant go down between him and those two men 476 00:28:29,445 --> 00:28:35,005 Speaker 1: late night? But even if that was true, the facts 477 00:28:35,085 --> 00:28:38,005 Speaker 1: right now or that someone did see Jay and talk 478 00:28:38,085 --> 00:28:41,325 Speaker 1: to him after he left the Airbnb. And this is 479 00:28:41,365 --> 00:28:43,925 Speaker 1: where you see the dark side of social media, because yes, 480 00:28:44,045 --> 00:28:46,085 Speaker 1: you get a lot of tips with publicity, but you 481 00:28:46,165 --> 00:28:49,845 Speaker 1: also get a lot of weird people and internet trolls. 482 00:28:50,845 --> 00:28:53,405 Speaker 1: And this is where the dark tourism and these message 483 00:28:53,405 --> 00:28:56,685 Speaker 1: boards cross over from kind of a curiosity to something 484 00:28:56,725 --> 00:29:01,085 Speaker 1: that is, in my opinion, much more sinister. Someone hacked 485 00:29:01,205 --> 00:29:04,925 Speaker 1: Jay's Instagram. It's been reported that it was hacked by 486 00:29:04,965 --> 00:29:07,485 Speaker 1: someone who was trying to get in it to find clues. 487 00:29:07,965 --> 00:29:10,645 Speaker 1: I have no idea if that's true, and if so, 488 00:29:10,885 --> 00:29:12,965 Speaker 1: if it's someone who knew him or someone who was 489 00:29:13,005 --> 00:29:15,245 Speaker 1: trying to get information after reading about the case, but 490 00:29:15,365 --> 00:29:19,725 Speaker 1: either way, this is shocking. Jay's sister addressed the message boards. 491 00:29:19,805 --> 00:29:22,605 Speaker 1: She wrote on social media, quote, all of the groups 492 00:29:22,605 --> 00:29:25,765 Speaker 1: are full of trolls and sickos. I can't believe some 493 00:29:25,805 --> 00:29:28,285 Speaker 1: people are actually this sick in the head. There are 494 00:29:28,325 --> 00:29:31,765 Speaker 1: people hacking my accounts and Jay's family, making it pure 495 00:29:31,845 --> 00:29:36,525 Speaker 1: lies and pretending we are all in on it. End quote. 496 00:29:36,605 --> 00:29:39,725 Speaker 1: And at some point the internet turned on Jay himself. 497 00:29:40,205 --> 00:29:43,765 Speaker 1: We talk a lot in true crime about the perfect victim, 498 00:29:44,285 --> 00:29:47,085 Speaker 1: the idea that to get headlines, to get public sympathy, 499 00:29:47,525 --> 00:29:50,445 Speaker 1: a victim has to seem pure, which I think is ridiculous, 500 00:29:50,845 --> 00:29:53,285 Speaker 1: but it's kind of a true crime trope that refuses 501 00:29:53,325 --> 00:29:56,965 Speaker 1: to die. It turned out that Jay, the fun loving 502 00:29:57,045 --> 00:30:06,605 Speaker 1: teen in the pictures, had had a dark past. Twenty one, 503 00:30:06,765 --> 00:30:09,605 Speaker 1: Jay and seven other teens were part of a vicious 504 00:30:09,725 --> 00:30:13,485 Speaker 1: machete attack on a seventeen year old named Tom. The 505 00:30:13,565 --> 00:30:16,965 Speaker 1: attack apparently started after a night out. Tom was having 506 00:30:17,005 --> 00:30:20,285 Speaker 1: issues with one of Jay's friend group and it turned violent. 507 00:30:21,165 --> 00:30:24,005 Speaker 1: The guys attacked Tom and chased him outside the club. 508 00:30:24,605 --> 00:30:27,485 Speaker 1: In court later, Tom said that Jay and his friends 509 00:30:27,525 --> 00:30:30,645 Speaker 1: were like a pack of gorillas. They attacked Tom with 510 00:30:30,685 --> 00:30:33,925 Speaker 1: a machete and a golf club, hitting him so viciously 511 00:30:34,085 --> 00:30:38,045 Speaker 1: that his skull was exposed. Later in court, the judge 512 00:30:38,045 --> 00:30:41,085 Speaker 1: said he was disgusted by Jay and his friends. He 513 00:30:41,125 --> 00:30:43,725 Speaker 1: said he was disgusted by the fact the teens continued 514 00:30:43,725 --> 00:30:47,165 Speaker 1: to laugh and joke throughout the trial and the sentencing process. 515 00:30:47,885 --> 00:30:50,805 Speaker 1: The judge said that some of the group, though reportedly 516 00:30:50,925 --> 00:30:54,765 Speaker 1: not Jay, were guilty of intimidation of witnesses, drug charges, 517 00:30:54,765 --> 00:30:57,605 Speaker 1: and robbery. Now it has been reported that Jay was 518 00:30:57,645 --> 00:30:59,485 Speaker 1: not one of the main instigators in this group, that 519 00:30:59,525 --> 00:31:02,525 Speaker 1: he was just kind of on the periphery, But either way, 520 00:31:02,645 --> 00:31:08,285 Speaker 1: this attack was Horrifyingly, the sentences were shockingly light. In 521 00:31:08,325 --> 00:31:12,045 Speaker 1: my opinion, Jay was given an eighteen month community order, 522 00:31:12,245 --> 00:31:16,085 Speaker 1: like probation in the United States. He was required to 523 00:31:16,085 --> 00:31:20,765 Speaker 1: do community service and unpaid work. That is it. Some 524 00:31:20,805 --> 00:31:26,445 Speaker 1: people described his disappearance as karma. I must say that, 525 00:31:26,965 --> 00:31:29,485 Speaker 1: in my opinion, the victim of this attack showed some 526 00:31:29,565 --> 00:31:34,205 Speaker 1: class here. He wrote on Facebook quote, whoever is writing 527 00:31:34,245 --> 00:31:36,765 Speaker 1: on these tiktoks, give it a rest. The young lad's 528 00:31:36,805 --> 00:31:39,845 Speaker 1: missing and his family's heartbroken. Put yourself in their shoes, 529 00:31:39,885 --> 00:31:42,565 Speaker 1: Stop talking nonsense on social media and get this lad 530 00:31:42,605 --> 00:31:46,885 Speaker 1: found mentioning my name, this and that. Have some respect 531 00:31:47,005 --> 00:31:49,125 Speaker 1: and help find this boy and get him back to 532 00:31:49,165 --> 00:31:55,405 Speaker 1: his family. End quote. The case just kept getting crazier 533 00:31:55,525 --> 00:31:59,965 Speaker 1: every day. The British news would open with day ten, 534 00:32:00,165 --> 00:32:03,245 Speaker 1: day eleven of the Jay Slater search. Then more and 535 00:32:03,285 --> 00:32:06,285 Speaker 1: more people started showing up. This tourist ustin it. You 536 00:32:06,405 --> 00:32:11,765 Speaker 1: had psychics and other TikTok people with drones, more TV journalists, 537 00:32:11,805 --> 00:32:17,485 Speaker 1: people retracing the last steps from the airbnb. Then, in 538 00:32:17,805 --> 00:32:23,445 Speaker 1: another stranger than fiction twist, one hiker who was reported 539 00:32:23,485 --> 00:32:25,245 Speaker 1: to be someone who was looking for Jay, though that 540 00:32:25,325 --> 00:32:29,405 Speaker 1: was never confirmed, police had to come in and rescue him. 541 00:32:29,965 --> 00:32:33,325 Speaker 1: The press release read quote tired and disoriented, he was 542 00:32:33,405 --> 00:32:35,885 Speaker 1: located by the agents and the rescue team who helped 543 00:32:35,925 --> 00:32:38,565 Speaker 1: get him out of the ravine end quote. At first 544 00:32:38,565 --> 00:32:40,725 Speaker 1: a lot of people got excited. They thought maybe that 545 00:32:40,885 --> 00:32:43,165 Speaker 1: Jay had been found, but no, this was some random 546 00:32:43,165 --> 00:32:46,445 Speaker 1: person who had turned up, presumably for the search, and 547 00:32:46,485 --> 00:32:50,725 Speaker 1: gotten lost himself, wasting more police time and taking effort 548 00:32:50,765 --> 00:32:59,205 Speaker 1: away from the attempt to find Jay. Every area, every 549 00:32:59,325 --> 00:33:02,445 Speaker 1: single small town, even the ones where you say we 550 00:33:02,485 --> 00:33:04,605 Speaker 1: can leave our doors unlocked at such a safe place, 551 00:33:04,725 --> 00:33:07,485 Speaker 1: they all have this side. So this is not unique 552 00:33:07,525 --> 00:33:11,685 Speaker 1: to this island, but Pliadella's America's, where Jay was staying, 553 00:33:11,685 --> 00:33:14,645 Speaker 1: in particular, is known for drugs. There have been a 554 00:33:14,725 --> 00:33:18,365 Speaker 1: lot of high profile drug trafficking cases there in recent years, 555 00:33:18,485 --> 00:33:22,845 Speaker 1: including murders committed by gangs called the Timeshare murders who 556 00:33:22,925 --> 00:33:26,645 Speaker 1: were kind of fighting over property. In addition to that, 557 00:33:26,725 --> 00:33:30,685 Speaker 1: a local news outlet called Canarian Weekly reported that crime 558 00:33:30,725 --> 00:33:34,405 Speaker 1: in the Canary Islands has spiked post COVID. In twenty 559 00:33:34,485 --> 00:33:38,125 Speaker 1: twenty two, rape was up by twenty seven percent, violent 560 00:33:38,205 --> 00:33:41,525 Speaker 1: robberies thirty two percent, and drug trafficking forty one percent. 561 00:33:42,805 --> 00:33:46,885 Speaker 1: So it is possible that Jay was partying with these 562 00:33:46,925 --> 00:33:49,725 Speaker 1: guys and that he got into a confrontation with them 563 00:33:49,885 --> 00:33:51,765 Speaker 1: or with someone else. We do have to be open 564 00:33:51,765 --> 00:33:55,565 Speaker 1: minded and consider that. But I keep coming back to 565 00:33:55,565 --> 00:34:00,005 Speaker 1: the fact Jay was seen by this woman after leaving 566 00:34:00,085 --> 00:34:04,245 Speaker 1: the airbnb. Whatever happened that night, he was out of 567 00:34:04,245 --> 00:34:06,805 Speaker 1: that property. It was more he was headed toward home. 568 00:34:07,365 --> 00:34:10,605 Speaker 1: He walked uphill, not downhill, toward the town. Why did 569 00:34:10,645 --> 00:34:14,645 Speaker 1: he do that? And while thinking about that, I also 570 00:34:14,685 --> 00:34:16,405 Speaker 1: want to think about what we can learn from this 571 00:34:16,525 --> 00:34:19,845 Speaker 1: case going forward. One of the reasons that I wanted 572 00:34:19,845 --> 00:34:21,925 Speaker 1: to do this story was because I have so many 573 00:34:21,925 --> 00:34:25,885 Speaker 1: of these cases where someone's out and they get into trouble, 574 00:34:25,885 --> 00:34:28,885 Speaker 1: they get into a fight with someone, or they're lost 575 00:34:29,085 --> 00:34:33,525 Speaker 1: or potentially intoxicated, and their phone battery dies. So I 576 00:34:33,565 --> 00:34:35,965 Speaker 1: did some research and I found out that there is 577 00:34:36,045 --> 00:34:39,005 Speaker 1: a way if you have an iPhone or an Android, 578 00:34:39,005 --> 00:34:41,525 Speaker 1: there are ways to find someone's location even if the 579 00:34:41,565 --> 00:34:44,285 Speaker 1: battery is dead. But and this is the crucial part, 580 00:34:44,645 --> 00:34:47,325 Speaker 1: you have to enable it before you lose the phone, 581 00:34:47,325 --> 00:34:51,565 Speaker 1: not afterwards. To do this on an iPhone, you go 582 00:34:51,645 --> 00:34:55,645 Speaker 1: to settings, your name and then find my Then you 583 00:34:55,725 --> 00:34:59,685 Speaker 1: took the option that says my network. This apparently enables 584 00:34:59,685 --> 00:35:01,845 Speaker 1: to find my feature to work even if the battery 585 00:35:01,885 --> 00:35:04,605 Speaker 1: is dead or the phone is offline. There's also an 586 00:35:04,605 --> 00:35:07,725 Speaker 1: option there called c Last Location. You can opt in 587 00:35:07,805 --> 00:35:11,685 Speaker 1: and that will allow your phone to automatically send its 588 00:35:11,765 --> 00:35:14,445 Speaker 1: last location to Apple even if the battery is dying. 589 00:35:16,085 --> 00:35:18,205 Speaker 1: I also wonder if there were other apps on Jay's 590 00:35:18,245 --> 00:35:21,805 Speaker 1: phone that could have helped. We saw in a previous 591 00:35:21,885 --> 00:35:25,685 Speaker 1: case that, for example, the Health app was very helpful 592 00:35:25,805 --> 00:35:29,685 Speaker 1: in measuring exactly where this young man was walking and 593 00:35:29,725 --> 00:35:33,845 Speaker 1: how long his strides were Secondly, and this will be controversial, 594 00:35:33,885 --> 00:35:37,565 Speaker 1: I know, but I really advise people not to give 595 00:35:37,605 --> 00:35:40,485 Speaker 1: to go fundmes unless you know the families personally. This 596 00:35:40,525 --> 00:35:43,845 Speaker 1: is no reflection on Jay or his family. This is 597 00:35:43,925 --> 00:35:47,405 Speaker 1: just a general rule that I follow because we have 598 00:35:47,565 --> 00:35:50,565 Speaker 1: no idea who is using the money or what it's 599 00:35:50,605 --> 00:35:54,285 Speaker 1: being used for. There's really no transparency. I would add, 600 00:35:54,365 --> 00:35:56,605 Speaker 1: if you do give go fund me money to anyone, 601 00:35:56,645 --> 00:35:59,605 Speaker 1: you just have to accept the fact that you're gonna 602 00:35:59,605 --> 00:36:02,725 Speaker 1: have no control over where it goes, and give it 603 00:36:02,765 --> 00:36:04,925 Speaker 1: as a gift with no strings attached and never think 604 00:36:04,965 --> 00:36:06,925 Speaker 1: about it again. Treat it like you would a gift 605 00:36:06,965 --> 00:36:09,925 Speaker 1: to a friend, because in my opinion, it is pointless 606 00:36:10,045 --> 00:36:14,165 Speaker 1: to give to a GoFundMe and later complain about how 607 00:36:14,165 --> 00:36:16,045 Speaker 1: the funds are used. When you give to go fund me, 608 00:36:16,765 --> 00:36:20,885 Speaker 1: you relinquish that control. And third, I think we all 609 00:36:20,965 --> 00:36:23,285 Speaker 1: have to take a long, hard look at what we're 610 00:36:23,285 --> 00:36:27,165 Speaker 1: doing on social media. If we post on social media 611 00:36:27,205 --> 00:36:30,005 Speaker 1: in groups for a case, we really have to remember 612 00:36:30,045 --> 00:36:32,565 Speaker 1: this is a living person, this is a real family. 613 00:36:33,605 --> 00:36:36,885 Speaker 1: In this case, people have been making memes about Jay 614 00:36:36,885 --> 00:36:40,365 Speaker 1: Slater's case, treating it like a joke, sending messages to 615 00:36:40,405 --> 00:36:43,645 Speaker 1: the family. Trying to get into someone's Instagram and then 616 00:36:43,765 --> 00:36:47,445 Speaker 1: even clogging up the search trails. It's not only immoral 617 00:36:47,445 --> 00:36:51,885 Speaker 1: and unhelpful, it's potentially illegal. It's easy to forget. These 618 00:36:51,925 --> 00:36:55,685 Speaker 1: are not just news stories. These are real people. So 619 00:36:56,005 --> 00:37:01,005 Speaker 1: why did Jay randomly walk uphill? I do have a theory, 620 00:37:01,445 --> 00:37:03,725 Speaker 1: it's just an idea at this point. Again, I'm not 621 00:37:03,805 --> 00:37:07,605 Speaker 1: actively investigating this case, letting the police do that. I 622 00:37:07,645 --> 00:37:11,005 Speaker 1: did a Google Map search. I asked for walking directions 623 00:37:11,165 --> 00:37:14,045 Speaker 1: from the Airbnb down to the town of Masca below. 624 00:37:15,045 --> 00:37:17,485 Speaker 1: I noticed that when I did this for driving directions, 625 00:37:18,085 --> 00:37:21,485 Speaker 1: it guided me down the hill from the Airbnb. It 626 00:37:21,645 --> 00:37:24,045 Speaker 1: said it would be a twenty minute drive, and this 627 00:37:24,165 --> 00:37:28,285 Speaker 1: was about a thirty kilometer distance, about eighteen miles. But 628 00:37:28,365 --> 00:37:32,125 Speaker 1: if you put in walking directions, for some reason, the 629 00:37:32,165 --> 00:37:35,765 Speaker 1: walking direction takes you back up the hill and it 630 00:37:35,845 --> 00:37:39,205 Speaker 1: says it takes six hours and sixteen minutes. So and 631 00:37:39,285 --> 00:37:42,925 Speaker 1: again this is just a guess. Maybe Jay did start 632 00:37:42,965 --> 00:37:45,845 Speaker 1: walking in that direction, not realizing it was eighteen miles 633 00:37:45,885 --> 00:37:47,765 Speaker 1: away and that it would have taken him at least 634 00:37:47,765 --> 00:37:51,365 Speaker 1: eleven hours to do that walk. Maybe he was out 635 00:37:51,365 --> 00:37:53,125 Speaker 1: of it. It was early in the morning, he'd been 636 00:37:53,165 --> 00:37:57,525 Speaker 1: out all night. Given what we know now, and again 637 00:37:57,765 --> 00:37:59,965 Speaker 1: we do not have all the info that police do 638 00:38:00,125 --> 00:38:04,165 Speaker 1: for good reasons, I do think it's more likely that 639 00:38:04,325 --> 00:38:06,805 Speaker 1: Jay got off the road oad somehow or tried to 640 00:38:06,805 --> 00:38:10,085 Speaker 1: take a shortcut. Jay's phone was dying and he was 641 00:38:10,165 --> 00:38:14,565 Speaker 1: tired and dehydrated. Temperatures in that area are brutal, approaching 642 00:38:14,605 --> 00:38:16,765 Speaker 1: one hundred degrees during the day and down to the 643 00:38:16,805 --> 00:38:20,445 Speaker 1: thirties a night. In fact, the UK Foreign Office has 644 00:38:20,485 --> 00:38:23,485 Speaker 1: a travel advice warning for that area. They tell visitors 645 00:38:23,525 --> 00:38:26,405 Speaker 1: to be very careful when hiking or walking in that area. 646 00:38:27,085 --> 00:38:29,565 Speaker 1: There's also, by the way, a risk of altitude sickness 647 00:38:29,645 --> 00:38:32,205 Speaker 1: up there, which would have been a lot worse with 648 00:38:32,285 --> 00:38:37,805 Speaker 1: a hangover and dehydration. So this was Jay's first trip abroad, 649 00:38:37,885 --> 00:38:40,685 Speaker 1: first time in a foreign country. The terrain there can 650 00:38:40,725 --> 00:38:44,045 Speaker 1: be deadly, but that's easy to forget. It reminds me 651 00:38:44,165 --> 00:38:47,045 Speaker 1: a lot of people who go missing in Malibu. It's 652 00:38:47,085 --> 00:38:49,525 Speaker 1: such a temperate, nice area with the beach during the 653 00:38:49,605 --> 00:38:52,685 Speaker 1: day and lots of people around, it is easy to 654 00:38:52,725 --> 00:38:55,405 Speaker 1: forget that if you get lost out there, you're basically 655 00:38:55,605 --> 00:39:00,365 Speaker 1: crossing a desert in your beach clothes. Once reporters stopped 656 00:39:00,965 --> 00:39:03,365 Speaker 1: walking in the hills in their tennis shoes and they 657 00:39:03,405 --> 00:39:06,445 Speaker 1: actually took the time to interview local residents, which is 658 00:39:06,485 --> 00:39:09,165 Speaker 1: such an important part of these stories. They interviewed a 659 00:39:09,205 --> 00:39:11,445 Speaker 1: woman who lived in that area, and I think that 660 00:39:11,645 --> 00:39:16,125 Speaker 1: her comment was one of the most sensible of the 661 00:39:16,245 --> 00:39:20,325 Speaker 1: entire investigation. She said that people go missing in those 662 00:39:20,405 --> 00:39:24,925 Speaker 1: hills all the time. It takes police months or years 663 00:39:25,005 --> 00:39:27,645 Speaker 1: to find some of them, and some of them are 664 00:39:27,685 --> 00:39:35,125 Speaker 1: never found. I'm Katherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. 665 00:39:39,405 --> 00:39:41,445 Speaker 1: Helen Gone Murder Line is a production of School of 666 00:39:41,485 --> 00:39:44,445 Speaker 1: Humans and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me 667 00:39:44,605 --> 00:39:48,205 Speaker 1: Catherine Townsend and produced by Gabby Watts. Special thanks to 668 00:39:48,205 --> 00:39:52,485 Speaker 1: Amy Tubbs for her research assistance. Music contributed by Ben Sale. 669 00:39:52,925 --> 00:39:55,645 Speaker 1: This episode was sound designed and mixed by Noah Camer 670 00:39:56,365 --> 00:40:00,085 Speaker 1: Executive producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Els Crowley. 671 00:40:00,565 --> 00:40:03,205 Speaker 1: Listen to Helen Gone ad free by subscribing to the 672 00:40:03,205 --> 00:40:06,405 Speaker 1: iHeart True Crime Plus channel on Apple podcas. You can 673 00:40:06,405 --> 00:40:09,805 Speaker 1: follow the show on Instagram at Helen gon Pod. If 674 00:40:09,845 --> 00:40:11,485 Speaker 1: you have a case you'd like me and my team 675 00:40:11,525 --> 00:40:13,445 Speaker 1: to look into You can reach out to us at 676 00:40:13,445 --> 00:40:16,045 Speaker 1: our Helen Gone Murder Line at six seven eight seven 677 00:40:16,085 --> 00:40:18,965 Speaker 1: four four, six one four or five. That's six seven 678 00:40:19,045 --> 00:40:31,045 Speaker 1: eight seven four four six one four five. School of 679 00:40:31,085 --> 00:40:31,525 Speaker 1: Humans