1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowod Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: My guest today is Randy Barnett. Randy is constitutional law 3 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: professor at Georgetown Law and a former Cook County State's 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: Attorney in Chicago. His new book is called Felony Review, 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: Tales of True Crime and Corruption in Chicago. Get it 6 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: now wherever you buy your books. Hi, Randy, so nice 7 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: to have you on. 8 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 2: And you forgot to mention I was a part time 9 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 2: pirate on the High series. 10 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: For those listening on audio, Randy has an eye patch on. 11 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: He's looking really cool though. As I told him, Randy, 12 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: you're a very rare second time guest on the Carol 13 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 1: Marco which show. I'm really happy to have you, and 14 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: not just because your first episode here I think was 15 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: my biggest episode last year. Yeah, you were very, very popular. 16 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: The people loved you, so I'm really thrilled. 17 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 2: To have you. Love me, love my books. 18 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: Right. As long as they're buying the books, that's all 19 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 1: we're really looking for here. So I have started reading 20 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,119 Speaker 1: Felony Review and I love it. I'm really not a 21 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: true crime person, but I love your writing. I've always 22 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: appreciated your work so much. And I could hear your 23 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 1: voice as I'm reading it, and you have like this 24 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: very kind of funny way of delivering, even stories about 25 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: a very grizzly murder. The book opens with a grizzly, 26 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: terrible murder, And really what caught my attention about this 27 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: murder was the pointlessness of it, that there was really 28 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: no reason for this murder to have happened. It was 29 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 1: some suburban kids trying to buy drugs and they run 30 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: into some gang members who don't have any drugs for 31 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: them to buy, but then they pretend to be of 32 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: a rival gang, and then they get basically tricked into 33 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: following these gang members elsewhere and being killed, and the 34 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: pointlessness of it, the destroyed lives. Did you see a 35 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: lot of that in Chicago? 36 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 2: Yeah? Elsewhere. All big cities are pretty much like this. 37 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: I went to law school because I wanted to be 38 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 2: a criminal lawyer. In fact, I wanted to be a 39 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 2: lawyer because of a television show that came on in 40 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 2: the nineteen sixties called The Defenders, which starred E. G. 41 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: Marshall and Robert Reid as a father son criminal defense 42 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 2: team in New York. It was very gritty, very realistic, 43 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 2: filmed on location in New York, and it made me 44 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 2: want to be a lawyer. And I stuck with that 45 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 2: from that day, from my tent being ten years old 46 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 2: into law school. Now in law school and I went 47 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 2: to Harvard Law School. There's all these pressures or social 48 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 2: pressures to go and do something like big law law 49 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 2: firms or clerk or other sorts of things. And my 50 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 2: fellow classmates when I told them what I wanted to do, 51 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 2: which is to basically be a county prosecutor, they said, well, 52 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 2: that's noble, but don't you think you might be wasting 53 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 2: your degree? And I said, I didn't go to law 54 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 2: school to do something I don't want to do. I 55 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 2: went to law school to do what I do want 56 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 2: to do, and I became a criminal lawyer, a prosecutor 57 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 2: in particular, and it was better than anything on television. 58 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,920 Speaker 2: And in fact, i'm rewatching The Wire. 59 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 1: I've never seen it. My brother is a huge fan, 60 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: always tells me I should watch it. 61 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean another show I'm doing later today. Asked me, 62 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 2: you know where prosecutors have been accurately portrayed? And I 63 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 2: remembered the prosecutor on the Wire, and I went back 64 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 2: and I sampled where she appears, and it just made 65 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: me want to watch the show all over again, because 66 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: that's the show that really captures for the first time 67 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 2: what it's like to be in the criminal justice system. 68 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 2: And I got to live it for four years, and 69 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 2: this book is a compilation of all the experiences I 70 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 2: had in four years. And as you know, Carol, it 71 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: was very varied. It wasn't just being a trial lawyer. 72 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 2: It was doing a lot of things, including the Felony 73 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 2: Review Unit. So maybe I should talk a little bit 74 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 2: about what that used. Yeah, it's very unique to Chicago. 75 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 2: It was implemented in the seventies. Basically, no Chicago police, 76 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: the Chicago Police cannot file felony charges against any suspect 77 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: until a state's attorney has approved those charges. And in 78 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 2: order that for that system to work, there had to 79 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 2: be a special unit created of prosecutors called Felony Review 80 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 2: and they were full time. When you're in that unit, 81 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 2: your full time in that unit, you work a twelve 82 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: hour day shift for three days sixty six am to 83 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 2: six pm, or then you get three days off and 84 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 2: then you work a night shift six pm to six am, 85 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 2: and you have offices in the police area headquarters, you 86 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 2: have a squad car. You respond to district police stations 87 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 2: where the crime has happened and where there are witnesses 88 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 2: to interview. You interview the cops, You interview the witnesses, 89 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 2: and then, if possible, you interview the accused. And in 90 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 2: oftentimes what that would result in is a confession, including 91 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 2: the confession. 92 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: That starts off confession. 93 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 2: Well, that's so one of the things I do in 94 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 2: the book condition to tell all these stories, is I 95 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 2: also tell the lessons that I learned by being an 96 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 2: observer of the system as well as a participant in it. 97 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 2: And one of the things I observed was people confessing 98 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: and wondering. You know, I was able to generalize kind 99 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 2: of about why people confess or give statements to the 100 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 2: police even without being coerced, because like, why would anybody 101 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 2: confess without being coerced? And I found there were at 102 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: least three different motives that were operating. I'm giving away 103 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 2: some of the choice parts of the book, but I'm 104 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 2: happy to do that. 105 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: Soay the book anyway, Guys by. 106 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 2: The book anyway. So the first reason is because they 107 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 2: don't think they're confessing. This by far is the most 108 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: predominant one. They think they're talking themselves out of the crime, 109 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 2: but they're actually talking to themselves into it, like, for example, saying, yeah, 110 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: I was there, but I didn't pull the trigger. I 111 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 2: was there, but I was not part of the robbery. 112 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 2: I was there. Well, as soon as say I was there, 113 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 2: you've eliminated witness identification problems. Now the person's there. Now 114 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 2: we can go out and prove the rest of it. 115 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 2: And in some cases, like in the cases of the 116 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: King brothers, I prosecuted in two separate jury trials, the 117 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 2: two brothers murdered was robbed and murdered the former cell 118 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 2: mate of one of the brothers, and each brother gave 119 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,279 Speaker 2: a confess saying the other brother had done it, and 120 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 2: it didn't matter. It did mean I had to try 121 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 2: the case twice, once against each brother, but it didn't 122 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 2: matter which one did the stabbing. They were both involved 123 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,040 Speaker 2: in the robbery and therefore both were guilty of murder. 124 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 2: So these were confessions given as a way of exculping himself. 125 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 2: That's reason number one. Reason number two is, like Juan 126 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 2: Cabilero in the beginning of the book, I think there's 127 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 2: somewhat proud of what they did, or at least they 128 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,799 Speaker 2: feel like they did the right thing. And you'll remember 129 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 2: from the end of that confession. After the confession was 130 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 2: taken down by a court reporter and signed and sealed 131 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 2: and by Wan himself, I turned to him and I 132 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 2: asked him, one, if you had it to do all 133 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: over again, would you do it again? And the reason 134 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 2: I did that is because he's a nineteen year old 135 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 2: kid or very very limited, very limited criminal history. Look 136 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 2: was a clean cut kid, very articulate, and I thought 137 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 2: a defense lawyer was eventually going to put him up 138 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 2: there and say, look, he got swept up in things. 139 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,679 Speaker 2: He's just innocent. He didn't really do anything. So I 140 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 2: put it to him, which you, if you had it 141 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:03,640 Speaker 2: to do all over again, would you do it again? 142 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 2: And he said if it was a sure thing. And 143 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 2: I said, well, there ain't no such thing as a 144 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 2: sure thing. And he said, well, a lot of kings 145 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: have gotten you know, have killed people without getting caught 146 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 2: by kings. He met Latin kings. And I said, I know, 147 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 2: but you got caught. Would you do it again? And 148 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 2: he said, I'd killed Michael for sure. I don't know 149 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 2: about the other two. Michael were the one that was 150 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 2: mouthing off and bragging. So was he. You know, he 151 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: thought he'd done the right thing even after having confessed. 152 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 2: Now the third reason has to do it was exemplified 153 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 2: by the confession I took from Sesar Marin, who was 154 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 2: a Colombian born person who shot and killed Korean liquor 155 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 2: store owner and seriously wounded his wife. She eventually survived, 156 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 2: became a witness, and at the end of my confession, 157 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 2: at the end of the confession, I took from him 158 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 2: a confession I should say where I forgot to give 159 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 2: Miranda rights at the beginning the confession and had to 160 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 2: somehow fix that. You can read about how that happened 161 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 2: and how I made that mistake and how he fixed it. 162 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: But at the end of that confession I asked he 163 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: said that because it took a week before they apprehended him, 164 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 2: and that actually will bring me to another thing about 165 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 2: Felony Review. They rested the wrong guy and because of 166 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 2: Felony Review, they had to let that guy go and 167 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 2: find the right guy. So that's one of the things 168 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 2: that Felony Review did. But he so he was at 169 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 2: large for a week before he got caught, and he 170 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 2: told me in his confession that he had not been 171 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 2: sleeping well for a week, and I said, well, why 172 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 2: weren't you sleeping well? And he said, I kept thinking 173 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 2: about the man. I just kept picturing the man, the 174 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 2: man that he had shot and killed. And I think 175 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 2: he felt guilty and what his confession was like to 176 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 2: get it off his chest, you know, to get sort 177 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 2: of clarity. And it was a true confession, like you 178 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 2: do when you confess. And so that's the third major 179 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 2: reason I think why people talk to the police. There's 180 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 2: actually a fourth reason I don't mention in the book, 181 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 2: and that is that juveniles. Most of these serious criminals 182 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 2: have juvenile records, and their experience in juvenile justice is 183 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 2: that if they talk and they explain themselves, they're let go. 184 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 2: But they're not let go because they explain themselves. They 185 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 2: let go because they let everybody go. But if you 186 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: don't talk, if they act like hardened criminals, then they 187 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 2: juvenile justices that might go worse for them. They might say, well, 188 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 2: this guy's really bad, we're gonna have to treat him 189 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 2: more seriously. So we train them to confess. Then they 190 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 2: turn eighteen, they've now committed a crime as an adult 191 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 2: they don't realize the rules have all changed, and that 192 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 2: until the jail door snapshot. Now here's the people that 193 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 2: hardly ever confess. Anyone who's done prison time and who 194 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 2: has sat in a jail for years and thinking what 195 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 2: an idiot I was for talking to the police. I'll 196 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 2: never make that mistake again. Those were the guys that 197 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 2: were very hard to get to confess. 198 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 199 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. Do you tell young 200 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: people in your life don't talk to police? I mean, 201 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: I don't think kids. You know they're young, but you know, 202 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: God willing, they're never involved in any crime. But I 203 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: still say, don't talk to police without a lawyer. 204 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 2: President, you should not talk to the police. You should 205 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 2: heights very hard not to talk to police. But you 206 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 2: should not talk to the police. And there's a lot 207 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 2: of reasons. There's a very good book about this, why 208 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 2: you shouldn't talk to the police, And I'm drawing a 209 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 2: blank now on the name of the professor who wrote it, 210 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 2: but maybe we can find it and put it in 211 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 2: the show notes. And he has a great video, famous, 212 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 2: very viral video on YouTube about why you shouldn't talk 213 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 2: to the police. But you shouldn't, I mean, if you 214 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,040 Speaker 2: want to protect yourself, right, And there's lots of reasons 215 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 2: for that. But that's really a different show. But let 216 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 2: me just say something more about Felony Review and what 217 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 2: good we did. It was like the Original Innocence Project. 218 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 2: We were there to make sure there was evidence that 219 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 2: before charges were brought of guilt. We couldn't determine, you know, 220 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 2: whether people are really guilty or really innocent. Sometimes we 221 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 2: had a gut feeling, but our guts are unreliable. We 222 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 2: were there to assess the evidence and if the evidence 223 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 2: wasn't there, our job was to say no. And the 224 00:10:56,880 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 2: record our approval rating was about sixty We approved about 225 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 2: sixty percent of the charges we were asked for, and 226 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 2: every week we turned in our logs, which I still 227 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: have my copy of, which is how I was able 228 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 2: to produce the book. We turn on our log books 229 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 2: and they would compile what our approval rate was and 230 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 2: keep us in the sixty percent range. And so we 231 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 2: rejected forty percent. They were forty percent of the people 232 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 2: like the first person named Caesar that got erected and 233 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 2: then turned out to be the wrong Caesar that went 234 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 2: free as a result of fell and Review. I tell 235 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 2: another story about a man who I actually this is 236 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 2: the one time I reported to a crime scene and 237 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 2: the deceased to the victim was on the floor just 238 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 2: like on the wire. The cops there looked at this 239 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 2: young kid and you know, this twenty something prosecutor as 240 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 2: I walked into the room, and they looked up at 241 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 2: me and they said, you said, okay, if we turn 242 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 2: over the body now, and they were just pulling my chain, 243 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 2: so to speak. But I said, yeah, sure, So they've 244 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 2: turned over the body. And then the poor woman's hand 245 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 2: just clunked on my boot. It just landed on my boot. 246 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 2: But essentially, but I basically let the husband go free 247 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 2: because after interviewing him and comparing his statement to the 248 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 2: witnesses that we had in neighboring apartments, as well as 249 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 2: the physical evidence, I decided that his story was plausible, 250 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 2: in fact probably true, and he wasn't guilty of murder. 251 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 2: And the difference between I won't spoil it any more 252 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,319 Speaker 2: to say, the difference between being charged with murder and 253 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 2: not is that the victim his wife had one stab 254 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 2: wound in the chest and not two if she'd had two, 255 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 2: probably would have been murder. Because it was one. It 256 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 2: was not murder at all, But felony review saved him 257 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 2: the price of having a lawyer having to go through 258 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 2: the system just because we were there. 259 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: So I see you as this constitutional log guy, and 260 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: yet you have this prosecutor felony review background. You know, 261 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: here's the book. How do you end up there? What 262 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: led you to love this and to want to do 263 00:12:57,760 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: that after going to Harvard Law School? 264 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 2: Well, as I say, it was the TV show The Defenders, 265 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 2: And the theme of the book is that being criminal 266 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,440 Speaker 2: lawyers better than TV. And I try to make that 267 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 2: argument throughout the book and at the end, actually I 268 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 2: include a letter that I wrote when Hill Street Blues 269 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 2: came out, which was at that point state of the 270 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 2: art in terms of realism. But the wire puts it 271 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:23,079 Speaker 2: to shame, but that was state of the original realism. 272 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 2: I wrote a letter to botchko and Kozel, who were 273 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 2: the producers who were their showrunners, and a copy of 274 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 2: it to Grant Tinker, who was MTM product the president 275 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 2: of MTM, Mary Tyler Moore's husband, about how how prosecutors 276 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 2: had been misportrayed in popular culture in fiction and on 277 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 2: television for years and years. And it was an eight page, 278 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 2: single space length, lengthy analysis of how prosecutors had been portrayed. 279 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 2: And because you know, I thought I was trying to 280 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 2: sell them on the concept that reality is more interesting 281 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 2: than what they show us on TV. And the Wire 282 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 2: is actually kind a proof of concept. Is there's a 283 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 2: reason why that show is a is a classic because 284 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 2: it does actually depict what it's like. I mean, I 285 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,559 Speaker 2: have to say when I'm watched. I watched three episodes 286 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 2: last night, and I felt like I was back in 287 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 2: Cook County, only it was Baltimore. 288 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: Do you see a TV show or doing something of 289 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: that in your future? You seem really into that. 290 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: Well, it would be wonderful if a studio picked up 291 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 2: Felony Review and made a show out of it. 292 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: I did play Jelly Wire. You call kind of stuff? 293 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, you call Ben or whoever it is that Jeremy's 294 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 2: not doing anymore, But call Ben. So I actually I 295 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,479 Speaker 2: did portray a prosecutor in a feature film called Inalienable, 296 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 2: and that was wonderful. It was wonderful experience. You can 297 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 2: watch it on YouTube for free. Look up just Google, 298 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 2: just go on YouTube and go inalienable the movie and 299 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 2: the movie will pop up. It's a science fiction movie, 300 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 2: but the last third of the movie is a courtroom drama, 301 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 2: and I play the assistant to the prosecutor whose name 302 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 2: who was played by Marina Sertis who played counselor Deanna 303 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 2: Troy on Star Trek Next Generation. It was written by 304 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 2: Walter Koenig, who was chekhof on the original Star Trek 305 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 2: and I had four wonderful days on a standing courtroom 306 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 2: set in La which the courtroom set was so realistic. 307 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 2: I really felt like I was back in the Cook 308 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 2: County State's Attorney's office as I was portraying prosecutor. And 309 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 2: when I came off the set, a lot of the 310 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 2: actors and other people who are crewman crew who were 311 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 2: watching it on the video village, which are the video 312 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 2: array that takes place off the set. They came up 313 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 2: to me. They said, boy, you really look like a 314 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 2: prosecutor in there, and I said, well, I was one. 315 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: So how do you go from fellony review to being 316 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 1: a constitutional law professor? What's the path? 317 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 2: Okay, well, there's a through line, and the through line 318 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 2: is that the reason why the defenders appealed to me 319 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 2: at the age of ten, is because it turns out 320 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 2: that my overriding commitment is to the idea of justice, 321 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 2: seeing that justice is done. And then it turned out 322 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 2: I thought, wow, there's a profession in which your job 323 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 2: is to see that justice is done. And that's the 324 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 2: reason one of the reasons I became a prosecutor instead 325 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 2: of a defense attorney. A defense attorney whose role is 326 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 2: absolutely essential. We have to have good defense attorneys or 327 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 2: our system doesn't work. Their obligation is to do justice, 328 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 2: to zealously defend the interest of their client, whereas a 329 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 2: prosecutor's obligation is to do justice, make sure the just 330 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 2: outcome is achieved. And I felt a lot more comfortable 331 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 2: in that capacity than even as a defense attorney. But 332 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 2: then I went to college and I discovered there's a 333 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 2: subject called philosophy, and in philosophy there's a subject called 334 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 2: ethics and politics, and they're all about what justice is. Well, 335 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 2: where I grew up in Calium at City, Illinois, I 336 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 2: never heard of philosophy. I didn't know there was a 337 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 2: whole discipline about that, and I was actually tempted to 338 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 2: not go to law school and be a philosophy professor instead, 339 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 2: But for various reasons, I stuck with plan A. 340 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: As my daughter likes to say, were you going to 341 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: go work at the philosophy factory they built in your town? 342 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 2: Well, that's what a law school is. A law school 343 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 2: is the fact is the philosophy factory where our job 344 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: is to train students to go into the justice system 345 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 2: and see the justice is done. And also, as a 346 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 2: law professor, and as a constitutional law professor, I can 347 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 2: approach the subject more systematically, systemically. So as a prosecutor, 348 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 2: I couldn't change the system. All I could try to 349 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 2: see is justice is done case by case. As a 350 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 2: law professor, I can try to change the system. And 351 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 2: that's the reason why I switched or segued to this 352 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 2: other field. 353 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: What are you most proud of in your life? Kind 354 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: of had a lot of paths here. 355 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 2: I'm proud of my kids and my grandkids. That's what 356 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 2: I'm most proud of. I've got two great kids. They're 357 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 2: both very successful. I won't I won't, I won't go 358 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 2: on and on about all their accomplishments. And I have 359 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 2: six grandchildren and most recent grandchild was born about two 360 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,439 Speaker 2: weeks ago. Oh wow, congratulations and I'm really proud of 361 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,640 Speaker 2: my kids. They all found they found great spouses as well, 362 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 2: and so that's what I'm most proud of. Yeah, secondly 363 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 2: I was proud of it would be my writing about 364 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 2: politics and justice. The Structure of Liberty was my first monograph, Justice, 365 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,719 Speaker 2: the subtitle Justice and the Rule of Law and Restoring 366 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 2: the Lost Constitution, our Republican Constitution, my last memoir, which 367 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 2: is a lot which I was on your show to 368 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 2: talk about, a life for liberty, the making of an 369 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 2: American originalist, being participating in the growth of originalism, developing 370 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,879 Speaker 2: the theory of originalism to make it the theory so robust, 371 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 2: it's the theory to be in academia, right. And now 372 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 2: I decided to reflect upon my time as a prosecutor, 373 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 2: which is unforgettable to me, and I had a lot 374 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 2: of fun writing the book. It was actually a lot 375 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 2: of fun. 376 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: You seem like you're having fun in this book. Not 377 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: that I didn't think a Life of Liberty that you 378 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 1: were having fun there too. You have a very playful 379 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: kind of way about you. But I think in Fellony Review, 380 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: you're telling the story of again some really terrible things 381 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,400 Speaker 1: that happened, but with a lightness that really is part 382 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: of your personality. 383 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 2: And the other thing that I hope you know your reader, 384 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:05,719 Speaker 2: I mean I should recommend to your readers, and that 385 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 2: is and you'll attest in both books. The books consist 386 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,399 Speaker 2: of very short vignettes. I mean there aren't it's not 387 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 2: long drawn out stories. You can read a five page 388 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 2: ten page chapter in a few minutes and wait and 389 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 2: come back to it. So it is told in little 390 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 2: bite sized chunks, which makes it easier to digest. 391 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: I think I love that. It's a really well done book. 392 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 1: I'm going to recommend it to all of my true 393 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: crime loving friends. I think they're going to enjoy that. 394 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 395 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Markowitz Show. Give us a five 396 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: year out prediction, and it could be about anything. It 397 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 1: could be about the justice system, where it could be 398 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: about art or music or anything at all. 399 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 2: God, I'm going to make a while. I'm going to 400 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 2: make a prediction there probably I probably would never have 401 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 2: made until about two weeks ago. And that is peace 402 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 2: in the Middle East. Wow, I think you're actually there's there? 403 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: Is it? 404 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 2: We have a path now forward if we can, if 405 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 2: we can pull it off, and there's no telling whether 406 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 2: we will. There's a lot of people who are opposed 407 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 2: to peace in the Middle East. But if we can 408 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: pull it off, what the United States is now doing 409 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 2: with Israel in Iran promises a completely new Middle East. 410 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 2: I mean there's you know, there's sort of like an 411 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 2: old joke that you know where you know, what are 412 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 2: you going to do? You know, uh proposed peace in 413 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 2: the Middle East, as though that you can never do that. 414 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 2: I think we actually are on the verge of doing. 415 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 2: Five years from now, we could we could have a 416 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 2: absolutely transformed Middle East in which Arab and jew are, 417 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 2: you know, sort of shoulders shoulder each doing, you know, 418 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,880 Speaker 2: each going on tourist destination rides, you know, in each 419 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 2: other's countries, doing a lot of commerce together, doing a 420 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 2: lot of security together. All we have to do is 421 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 2: remove this this anchor from both Arab and jew from 422 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 2: both averages. Arab I mean that we have the poor 423 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 2: Persians in Iran or not Arabs, but we should say 424 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 2: Muslim and Jews. We this remove this cancer which is 425 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 2: not the Persian people, It's not the Iranian people, it 426 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 2: is the government that they've been suppressed by since nineteen 427 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 2: seventy nine, and who has been at war with the 428 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 2: United States since nineteen seventy nine and continues to declare 429 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 2: its war against us in the quorum of death to America. 430 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 2: If we can do what the president is now attempting 431 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 2: to do, we have very strong reason to believe. The 432 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 2: Reuben Accords gives us very strong reason to believe that 433 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 2: there could be peace in the Middle least. Remember, all 434 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 2: the countries besides Israel that iron fired rockets at are 435 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 2: all Formula one tournament countries. They all have Formula one 436 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 2: funny speedways. Countries with Formula one speedways, I don't think 437 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,720 Speaker 2: are countries that we have to worry too much about. 438 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: Interesting. That's like the old McDonald's thing. If a country 439 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 1: has McDonald's is probably not going to. 440 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,640 Speaker 2: Be war turned well, it turns out that's less true 441 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 2: than we hope. Formula one that's a big investment. 442 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: You know, for sure, Yeah, much bigger than McDonald's. But 443 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: I love that, and I love that you're optimistic. I 444 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: you know, of my ups and downs on that. 445 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 2: I don't want to go so far to say I'm optimistic. 446 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: I think optimism in Middle East in five years is pretty. 447 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 2: Optimistication indeed, optimism or pessimism are kind of irrational. I'm 448 00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 2: hopeful about the future. I'm always hopeful. I'm a glass 449 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 2: half full instead of a glass half empty. 450 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: Guy. 451 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 2: That defines me more than optimism or pessimism. 452 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,239 Speaker 1: Does I love that? Well? The one question that I 453 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,239 Speaker 1: ask all my guests that has stayed the same for 454 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: the three years of the Carol Markowitz Show so far 455 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: is to leave us here with a tip from my 456 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 1: listeners on how they can improve their lives. Do you 457 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: remember what you said last time? 458 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 2: I bet you only I think I do, And I'm 459 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 2: going to say the same thing, all right, Yeah, do 460 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 2: it live your life as though you're going to write 461 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 2: a memoir about that's what you said? Why would that be? 462 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 2: Why is that? Because if you think about now, you 463 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 2: know I'm seventy four, you know I've made most of 464 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,200 Speaker 2: my choices, I've done most of my deeds, and now 465 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 2: that I wrote a memoir, when I look back, I 466 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 2: want to be proud of what I did. I want 467 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 2: to be able to put it all in the book 468 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 2: instead of, oh gosh, you know, there's a mistake. Here's 469 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,560 Speaker 2: another mistake. Now I did put the mistakes I've made 470 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 2: in the book. You know my professional mistakes anyway, not 471 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 2: all my personal mistakes. But if you live your life 472 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 2: as though you're going to write about it one day, 473 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 2: that will be a way of getting yourself to make 474 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 2: better choices. Will I be proud of this moment, no 475 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 2: matter how it turns out? Will I be proud of 476 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 2: the choice that I made today? Or will I regret it? 477 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 2: Will I be sort of like, well, ashamed of it. 478 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,680 Speaker 2: I really don't want it to anybody to know. Live 479 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 2: your life as though you're going to write a memoir, 480 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 2: you'll live a much happier life. And then secondly, then 481 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 2: write the memoir, even if only for your kids and 482 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,199 Speaker 2: your grandkids, your descendants. Wouldn't I love to read a 483 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 2: memoir done by my great grandfather, Harris Barnett, who enlisted 484 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 2: in the Army at the age of US Army at 485 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 2: the age of eighteen, having immigrated from Russia and enlisted 486 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 2: in the Army a week after the Little Big Horn 487 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 2: and was and was discharged honorably in the Montana Territory, 488 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 2: which means he fought in the Indian War before returning 489 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 2: to Chicago, my hometown, to raise his family. Wouldn't I 490 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 2: love to have a memoir by Harris Barnett, but I 491 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 2: don't have one, So write a memoir for you and 492 00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 2: your kids and your descendants. 493 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: I love that so much, and I'm going to make 494 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 1: everybody I know write a memoir. He is Randy Barnett. 495 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: His book is called Felony Review. Please buy his book 496 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 1: anywhere you buy books. It's really so excellent. Thank you 497 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: so much for coming on, Randy. 498 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 2: Lovey shure, I'll see you on the high seas.