WEBVTT - Jonathan Adashek: “I’m going to do this job like I don’t need it.” 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:06.479 You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart Podcasts. 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:12.680 There's also the ability to celebrate the successes that people 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:16.200 have in a corporate culture. And equally, I feel like 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:19.079 you've got to be able to celebrate the failures, right 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:23.759 because if you don't celebrate the failures, nobody's going to 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:25.800 be willing to take a risk. And if you can't 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:27.560 take a risk, you're not going to change a culture. 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:34.680 Hi, I'm Bob Pittman. Welcome to Math and Magic. Stories 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:37.480 from the Frontiers and Marketing. Today, we have someone who 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:40.600 has a storied career, much of it was centered around 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:44.800 PR and communications, and he's got some unique insights for 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:47.600 us coming from that perspective. He's the head of marketing 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:52.559 and Communications for the legendary IBM. It's Jonathan Atischeck. Jonathan 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:56.440 was born and grew up in Milwaukee, loved Camp, started 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:59.240 with a career in politics, moved on to the business 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:02.720 side of a PR firm, an automotive Giant Attack Giant, 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:06.200 before arriving at IBM. He not only is involved in 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:08.679 AI as a business, he's used it to transform the 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:12.679 marketing function at IBM. He's described by those around him 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:16.160 as very real Welcome Jonathan, Thanks Bob. 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:17.000 Great to be here. 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:20.600 Before we jump into the hot topics today, I want 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:22.839 to start with you in sixty seconds. Are you ready? 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:23.160 Yep? 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:24.920 Do you prefer cats or dogs? 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:25.560 Dogs? 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:28.160 Early riser, night out? Both West Coast or. 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:32.240 East Coast, East Coast, New York City or Milwaukee Milwaukee, copa, 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:36.640 Pepsi coke, beach or mountains beach, rock and roll, our Country, 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:40.880 rock and roll coffee or tea, t Books or movies, books, 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:42.479 podcasts or streaming TV. 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:45.360 Streaming TV except for this podcast. 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:47.640 Thank you, Thank you, the right answer, Cook, read out, Cook, 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:53.880 Crocs or Nikes, Crocs, comedy or drama, comedy Japan or Paris, Japan. 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:58.000 Harley Davidson or Honda Harley Davidson. Okay, we're getting a 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:01.320 little harder. All time favorite music art so grateful dead. 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:02.560 What was your first computer? 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:04.240 An Apple iiO. 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:07.880 Not even the GS No oh, I love that first job. 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:12.239 A camp counselor smartest person you know, my wife, childhood hero, 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:16.440 my father and my mother. Favorite sport to watch football, 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:20.160 Green Bay Packers. The most important piece of advice you 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:21.000 ever received. 0:02:21.200 --> 0:02:22.480 Don't sweat the small stuff. 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:27.040 Let's jump in now to put your company in context 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:30.320 and perspective and what you're doing there. I want to 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:31.920 do just a little history because I'm sort of a 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:34.280 fanboy from Tom Watson Junior, so I want to tell 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:36.440 a little story here and then talk about how it 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:40.480 relates to you. In eighteen eighty four, National Cash Register 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:43.600 Company NCR was founded one hundred years ago. Is one 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:46.520 of the dominant high tech companies, so much so that 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:49.920 the government indicted some of their senior executives in nineteen 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:52.200 thirteen for anti trust. One of them was the head 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:54.960 of sales, Tom Watson, and they fired him. In the 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.680 aftermath of the government indictment. In nineteen fourteen, he goes 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:02.120 to another high tech company, CTR, which stood for Computing, 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:06.520 Tabulating Recording, as general manager. Ten years later he is 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:11.320 made president and the company was renamed IBM International Business Machines. 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:15.400 Watson was a true visionary. In the nineteen forties, IBM 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:19.600 helped develop the Harvard Mark one. In nineteen fifty two, 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:23.679 IBM released its first commercial scientific computer, the IBM seven 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:27.040 oh one, which was its real entry into the computer biz. 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:31.520 Tom Watson Senior was somewhat cautious about moving beyond punch cards, 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:35.480 but his son Tom Watson Junior was not. Tom Watson 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:38.040 Junior was president of IBM in fifty two, took over 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:41.040 a CEO upon his father's death in fifty six. And 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:44.040 the modern IBM is really, from my perspective of the 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.920 outsider looking in, it was his creation. He moved it 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:49.400 from a family run business to the modern management and 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.320 corporate structure and operations. He was a true leader and 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:56.000 innovator in American business practices. In addition to what he 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.160 did with IBM, the big bet was on the IBM 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:02.360 System three sixty in nineteen sixty four. Might have even 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.520 been a bet the company move. Might be argued also 0:04:05.600 --> 0:04:07.800 that it's set up the computer battles for the decades 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:11.640 to come. So you've got this amazing and historic brand. 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:13.880 I tell the story only to really talk about what 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.560 a brand this is. How do you think about the 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:19.240 brand and how do you manage to keep it evolving. 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:23.240 You know, you don't become one hundred and thirteen year 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.479 old technology company without reinventing yourself. And you even talked 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:29.960 about it in recounting the history. And I think about 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:33.040 the brand is one of the most valuable assets we've 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:38.000 got as a company. I think that people really trust IBM. 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:40.800 There's the old saying of you don't get fired for 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:44.240 hiring IBM that used to be there. And I think 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:48.719 that people look at IBM and when you engage with IBM, 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.000 these are the men and women who are going to 0:04:51.080 --> 0:04:53.800 help us get to where we need to be. And 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:55.599 we can trust them to come in and do the 0:04:55.680 --> 0:04:58.719 right thing for us and help us advance our business 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.240 and take advantage of our opportun unities. Have we had 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.239 our bumps? Yeah? Along the way we've had our bumps. 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.920 Have we not always necessarily stood for that? Yeah? And 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:10.520 I would tell you the story of when I first 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:14.160 got this job offer. I called one of my closest 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.720 friends and I said to him I got this offer 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.400 from IBM and told them all about it. It was 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.760 to run communications. He said to me, I'm really happy 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:24.560 for you, you know, because he knew I've been looking 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:26.320 for a while. He's like, this is great. He said, 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:29.360 I only have one question for you, what does IBM do. 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:32.520 This guy happened to be Sati Anadella's chief of staff. 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:34.520 So it said to me, there's a lot of green 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:38.920 space to make sure people understand where the company's going. 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.200 The opportunity that lies ahead for us as a company 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:45.480 and the ability for us to get much more focused 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.720 so people understand what we do, what we don't do, 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:50.840 and then how that brand carries behind it. 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.400 So let's take one step down talk about brands in general. 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:57.640 What do you think a brand does for a company 0:05:57.720 --> 0:05:59.520 and its products? What is the brand? 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.520 I think the brand is the principles, It's the people, 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:06.520 it's the policies, it's the practice. I talked about trust before. 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.400 People trust it, but that's because trust and ethics are 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:12.920 at the heart of how we operate as a company. 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:15.600 I think a brand is a manifestation of what you 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.520 bring to life as the organization, not just what you 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:22.560 sell to your customers or your clients, but how you operate, 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.560 how you work together inside of a company. That is 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:27.479 what the brand is. And then people look at that 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:30.520 and go, I want to be associated with that, or 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:32.000 I don't want to be associated with it. 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:35.680 In certain cases, you were at Microsoft and you've been 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:39.800 at IBM, two big tech names in American history. By 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:41.880 the way, both of them evolved and as you say, 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.760 up and down. But how would you compare and contrast 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:45.719 those two brands. 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.239 There are two iconic brands in the history of our country, 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:52.000 and I would argue in the world and the changes 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:56.440 that both of them have made in the economy, in 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:59.960 the lives of people around the world, it's hard to 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.560 find others that have had the same impact. In my view, 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.880 I would say Microsoft's a much more consumer facing brand, 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:09.080 and people know when they're dealing with Microsoft when you 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:12.760 open Word or Office or any of those things or 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:17.120 use your Xbox. IBM, on the other hand, the way 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:18.760 I like to think of it as in many regards 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:22.520 where like the rails, people interact with us every day. 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:25.400 Most times, I would argue, people don't know they're dealing 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:28.000 with us unless you really are focused on what does 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:32.400 IBM do into the details. So they're two different paths, 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:37.640 but two iconic brands, two iconic corporations that are really 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:42.680 important to our country and to the broader global economy. 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.520 You did a wide range of work for clients all 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:48.600 over the globe when you were at Edelman huge pr agency. 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:52.000 What lessons did you take away from that that really 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:55.680 added a dimension to you as and shaped you as 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:56.119 a marketer. 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.160 One of the things for me, Bob you alluded to 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:01.200 it in the opening is how much I loved Camp 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:03.480 I grew up going to summer camp in the north 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:05.720 woods of Wisconsin, a place called camp In or Lochin, 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.080 and I really learned there the meaning of a hard 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:12.560 day's work and the ability to say I'm not going 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:14.960 to ask somebody to do anything that I wouldn't do myself. 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.320 Up a camp, I'd teach lifeguarding. And you're in a 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:19.120 cold lake in the middle of Wisconsin and. 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:22.600 Really cold, really cold cold lake, you I wouldn't. 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.720 Say, go swim laps without me jumping in with the 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:26.480 class and saying, Okay, I'm going to swim the laps 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:29.600 with you. Fast forward, and I take that gentleman where 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:31.880 I sort of said, we're all going to roll up 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:34.120 our sleeves and do whatever we need to do together. 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:38.120 And I carry that with me today, that whatever needs 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:41.240 to be done, we just need to do it. And 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.240 the other big thing I remember often saying to Richard Edelman, 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:48.640 who was a great sponsor and mentor of mine and 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.679 gave me some amazing opportunities. But I would say to 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.120 Richard oftentimes I'm going to do this job, Richard, like 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:57.679 I don't need it. And if you take that approach 0:08:57.840 --> 0:08:59.760 of like I'm just going to go do it the 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:03.040 way I think is right. And if it's not the 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.040 right way, and you say, hey, you got to go. 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:07.800 You got to be willing to take risks is basically 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:10.600 where I'm getting to because if you don't take risks, 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:11.959 you're not going to advance your career. 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:14.679 Fantastic advice. We're going to come some advice later, but 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:17.040 that's a great piece of it right there. In addition 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:20.320 to starting and building brands, I've also been involved in 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:25.160 rehabilitating brands. And it always intrigues me how brands lose 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:28.360 their way? Why do you think and how do companies 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:29.800 lose their way on their brand? 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:34.760 Very simply, they lose focus. If you lose focus, if 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:36.839 you try and do too many things, if you get 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:41.000 away from what is core to your business and what 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:44.160 you need to do as an organization, and make a 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.720 move that's too quick, that doesn't bring your existing clients 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:50.920 your employees with you, you will start to lose focus. 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:53.000 I was fortunate when I was at Edelman. I had 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.400 Starbucks as one of the clients and I was the 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:58.840 global client relationship manager there and Howard Schultz used to 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:03.720 often say to us, if we lose our existing customers 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:06.320 because we're focused on getting new ones, We're going to 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.520 spend more time, more money, more effort trying to win 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:12.880 back the customer we just lost than trying to go 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:15.520 get the new ones. And we can't do that. 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:19.599 So in an organization, how do you ingrain that in 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:24.079 people so that the organization stays focused on focus. 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:26.280 I'm going to tell you what I'm going to tell you. 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:28.760 I'm going to tell it to you again, and then 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:30.400 I'm going to tell it to you one more time, 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.040 and I'm going to keep telling it to you until 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.200 you're sick and tired of hearing it from me. Because 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.400 when I get frustrated with it, then finally you're just 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:43.200 starting to listen. Being repetitive and being transparent that is 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:44.280 really key. 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:44.520 You know. 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.559 It's interesting you talk about that on our music radio stations. 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.160 I start out as a radio announcer and it's on 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.680 the air, and when the people on the air are 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:56.280 sick of a song, I'd have played this song so 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:57.640 much if I got to play it one more time. 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.199 Going to shoot myself is about the time the consumer says, 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:02.600 what's that new song you're playing? 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:03.640 Yeah, exactly. 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:03.960 It is. 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.880 So it's interesting. I think in every business how detached 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:08.839 do we get from where the consumer is if we're 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.400 not extraordinarily careful about looking at data as opposed to 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:13.520 trusting our gut. 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:14.280 I agree. 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:16.640 You know, when you think about brands, there s need 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:19.120 to be two models. One is, let's call it the 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:21.640 Steve Jobs model of there is a person who is 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:24.839 the keeper of the brand. There's the other model and 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.960 Microsoft where the company sort of institutionally kept the brand. 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:31.480 How do you see it? What do you come down 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:31.960 on that one? 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.880 I think that when you're looking at a big company overall, 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:40.840 it's too much for one person, any one person, to 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.600 be the only person who keeps the brand. And I 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.920 think that the principles of the brands need to live 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:51.400 in the organization on a day to day basis. And 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:53.839 the way I look at IBM is we've got I 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.400 don't know, more than two hundred and seventy five thousand 0:11:56.400 --> 0:12:00.640 people around the world. They need to be instilled, they 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:04.720 need to be representing the brand to people around the world. 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:06.400 They need to be understanding what we're trying to do 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:08.600 as a company to help them do that, and if 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:12.280 they're not, then we're failing from the beginning. They're great 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:14.840 leaders at those big companies that you talked about, But 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:18.120 I think I'm a believer that the bigger group will 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:19.240 make it even better. 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:22.360 You're in charge of marketing. Your job is to get 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:25.319 the brand out. How do you train those two hundred 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.200 and seventy five thousand employees on the brand? 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:33.400 You know, it goes back to repetitiveness as we talked about. 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:39.040 It goes back to radical simplification in the messaging and 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:42.640 the positioning and what you're trying to do. And it 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:46.080 really is making sure you're enabling people. You're giving them 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:49.440 the tools, making it easy for them to find what 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:53.680 they need to carry that message forward in whatever situation 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:56.040 they need to be in. You have to serve it 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:58.920 to people on a silver platter. You can't make it 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:02.520 an expedition for them them to go find information about 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:05.959 the brand, about whatever you're trying to do. Otherwise, they 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:07.600 got other things to do in their lives. They're going 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:09.880 to go do other things and then tell whatever story 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:10.240 they want. 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.120 Let's apply it to politics. I know you were in 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.520 the Clinton administration, and for those of us who were 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:18.599 old enough to be a part of all that, you 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.640 would argue a brilliant marketer of what he did. Can 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:23.360 you use some examples from that. 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.800 You know, I think for him, he got to very 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.760 direct engagement with the voters, and he made it a 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:35.480 very simple message. Remember, it's about the economy, stupid, right, 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:41.440 And that was key and everybody could understand that simple message. 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:46.400 And he was so engaging with people that whether you 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:48.559 were in the room, if you were in the room 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:50.720 and engaging with them, you felt like you were the 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:52.120 only person there. You could be in a room of 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:53.800 one hundred thousand people and you felt like you were 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:55.439 the only person. You and he were the only two 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:57.920 people there. But if you were also watching it on 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:02.360 television or seeing of it someplace, I think that carried 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:06.440 through it transcended. President Clinton was an amazing is an 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:10.640 amazing communicator, and I think it's he's one of the 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.760 rare talents. You don't see people at that level on 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:16.559 a regular basis, and I think that's really how he 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:17.120 pushed it. 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:20.400 I want to tie brand a little bit to corporate culture. 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.720 How do you think about corporate culture? What is it 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:26.520 and how does it help a company succeed. 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:32.200 Corporate culture is really important because you can get set 0:14:32.600 --> 0:14:35.600 on the business and know where you're going from a 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.480 here's our objective from a business goal, But how do 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:42.960 you get the culture that's going to be there to 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.600 really enable that is a whole other effort. And as 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:50.360 I talk about it with Arvin Krishna, our CEO today, 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:53.760 Arvin's very focused on how do we make sure that 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:57.880 we've got a culture that enables what we want people 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:01.400 to do? And I think a key part of this 0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:08.680 whole driving a culture. There's transparency, there's the ability for 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:12.600 people to take risks, there's the ability for people to 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:16.520 move with speed. Those are really important pieces. But there's 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:20.920 also the ability to celebrate the successes that people have 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:24.600 in a corporate culture. And equally, I feel like you've 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.880 got to be able to celebrate the failures, right because 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:32.080 if you don't celebrate the failures, nobody's going to be 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.200 willing to take a risk. And if you can't take 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.600 a risk, you're not going to change a culture. So 0:15:37.160 --> 0:15:39.800 how do you continually evolve? And I think that evolution 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:43.120 of a culture is more important today than it was 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:46.720 in the past because business is changing, technology is changing, 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:48.680 the landscape is changing so much. 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:54.560 I think your point about celebrating mistakes failures is hugely important. 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:55.520 How do you do that. 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.240 I'll give you an example of me. One of my 0:15:58.440 --> 0:16:01.200 first meetings that I had and once I took over 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:04.920 marketing with Arvind and some of my peers. It was 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:09.840 my worst performance in my professional career, hands down. Why 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:14.360 I was anxious. I didn't have my hands around the 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:17.720 data the way I wanted it to. I didn't feel comfortable. 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.640 I just I did not land it. It was so 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:23.920 bad that Arvin stopped me in the middle of the 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:25.480 meeting in front of everybody and said we'll deal with 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:27.680 it later. I called him after the meeting and I 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:29.480 talked to him and I apologized because I was like, 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:31.120 that's not what you expect from me, and that's not 0:16:31.120 --> 0:16:34.280 why I'm here. And he gave me some good feedback 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:37.000 and was understanding and was clear that we're going to 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:39.280 fix it. It's not fine, but we're going to fix it. 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:44.480 And every Friday I write a note to my entire 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:48.600 team around the world, and that Friday, I wrote a 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:52.120 note in explicit detail explaining to people what happened there. 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:57.400 And many people could not believe that I was being 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:01.440 that vulnerable and that transparent with my team at all 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:03.920 levels of my team, saying this is what I did, 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:06.879 and oh, by the way, the CEO cut me off 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:10.960 because I was so bad. It showed people A not 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:14.760 everything's perfect, and b we all can make mistakes and 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:17.120 things can happen, and you can adjust, you can learn 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:19.399 from them, and you can take a step forward and 0:17:19.440 --> 0:17:21.919 do it. That's a simple example for me. 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:27.720 Did that writing the note give you more cred and 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.600 stronger relationships with the org than if you had done 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:33.000 a really good presentation. Never had the opportunity to do 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:33.720 something like that. 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:36.680 I think it helped me with some people, not with everybody, 0:17:37.000 --> 0:17:39.719 And personally writing that note was so cathartic for me 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:42.160 as well. But I think it was important to show 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.480 that not everything's going to be perfect, because I say 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.040 it all the time, not everything's going to be perfect, 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:49.240 But you have to show that not everything's going to 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:49.679 be perfect. 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:53.080 I worked for a brilliant entrepreneur, Steve Ross, who really 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:56.000 created Time Warner out of have Spather and lost two 0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:57.960 funeral homes, and he used to say, you know, Bob, 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:00.360 you'll never be fired here for making a mistake. You'll 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:02.680 be fired here for not making a mistake. John making 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:05.119 a mistake tells me I don't try anything new because 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.080 nobody gets it right one hundred percent of the times, 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:10.359 and we want you to try new things. More of 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:20.680 math and magic. Right after this quick break, welcome back 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.280 to Mathem Magic. Let's hear more from my conversation with 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:27.359 Jonathan Adaschek. Let's go back in time to get context 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:32.080 on you. Milwaukee. I actually was the midday disc jockey 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.600 a writ radio there in nineteen seventy two. I did 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.920 one semester at Carroll College in Walkshaw. I once ran 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.600 a theme park company, six Flags, with a park halfway 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:46.439 between Chicago and Milwaukee. And yet Milwaukee remains a mystery 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:48.520 to me. Can you explain that? I mean, it is 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.560 a unique culture. They don't have water fountain, stay of bubblers. 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.480 Can you explain it? And tell us about the Milwaukee 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:56.400 that was there when you were growing up. 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.520 So I grew up just north of the city in 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.560 the suburb was a town called Whitefish Bay. It was 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:04.919 a great place to raise a family and to be 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.760 a kid growing up and playing in the streets. We 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.359 used to play kick the can and climb on the 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:13.199 neighbor's roof to hide from other people and all that 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:18.080 kind of fun stuff. And it was an amazing place. Unfortunately. 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:20.919 It was also a very segregated city, to the point 0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:24.359 that my mother was on the school board and in 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:28.160 Whitefish Bay, and there was a big desegregation lawsuit and 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:31.280 it was Section two twenty, I believe it was called. 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:36.320 And part of the settlement was that the suburbs would 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:38.560 bust kids into the city, and the city would bust 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:41.760 kids into the suburbs. And my mother said, I'm going 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.080 to ask the people in the village Whitefish Paid to 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:45.920 do the same thing. I'm going to lead by example, 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:49.640 so you know, I want you to go. My parents 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:51.639 told me, you're going to go, get on the bus 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:56.840 and go into the city. And I loved it. I 0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:00.760 loved it. I used to take the bus to elementary 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.520 school in downtown. It was across the street from the 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:06.080 Schlitz Brewery. And I remember the day the Schlitz Brewery 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:08.439 went on strike and never came back. And I remember 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.919 asking the bus driver every day to stop at the 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:14.040 USA Today box I can put a quarter in and 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:17.119 get the paper. It was just a great city, a 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:22.640 city that is so passionate about Milwaukee, about the brewers, 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:26.160 about the bucks, about the packers, about just the great 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:28.480 heritage there, you know, the saying is it's a great 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:29.640 city on a great lake. 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:31.960 And it really is an amazing I've not heard that one. 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:35.360 Yeah, that's a great line, and it's changed a lot 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:37.919