Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2: There's also the ability to celebrate the successes that people
Speaker 2: have in a corporate culture. And equally, I feel like
Speaker 2: you've got to be able to celebrate the failures, right
Speaker 2: because if you don't celebrate the failures, nobody's going to
Speaker 2: be willing to take a risk. And if you can't
Speaker 2: take a risk, you're not going to change a culture.
Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Bob Pittman. Welcome to Math and Magic. Stories
Speaker 3: from the Frontiers and Marketing. Today, we have someone who
Speaker 3: has a storied career, much of it was centered around
Speaker 3: PR and communications, and he's got some unique insights for
Speaker 3: us coming from that perspective. He's the head of marketing
Speaker 3: and Communications for the legendary IBM. It's Jonathan Atischeck. Jonathan
Speaker 3: was born and grew up in Milwaukee, loved Camp, started
Speaker 3: with a career in politics, moved on to the business
Speaker 3: side of a PR firm, an automotive Giant Attack Giant,
Speaker 3: before arriving at IBM. He not only is involved in
Speaker 3: AI as a business, he's used it to transform the
Speaker 3: marketing function at IBM. He's described by those around him
Speaker 3: as very real Welcome Jonathan, Thanks Bob.
Speaker 2: Great to be here.
Speaker 3: Before we jump into the hot topics today, I want
Speaker 3: to start with you in sixty seconds. Are you ready?
Speaker 2: Yep?
Speaker 3: Do you prefer cats or dogs?
Speaker 2: Dogs?
Speaker 3: Early riser, night out? Both West Coast or.
Speaker 4: East Coast, East Coast, New York City or Milwaukee Milwaukee, copa,
Speaker 4: Pepsi coke, beach or mountains beach, rock and roll, our Country,
Speaker 4: rock and roll coffee or tea, t Books or movies, books,
Speaker 4: podcasts or streaming TV.
Speaker 2: Streaming TV except for this podcast.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you, the right answer, Cook, read out, Cook,
Speaker 3: Crocs or Nikes, Crocs, comedy or drama, comedy Japan or Paris, Japan.
Speaker 3: Harley Davidson or Honda Harley Davidson. Okay, we're getting a
Speaker 3: little harder. All time favorite music art so grateful dead.
Speaker 3: What was your first computer?
Speaker 2: An Apple iiO.
Speaker 3: Not even the GS No oh, I love that first job.
Speaker 3: A camp counselor smartest person you know, my wife, childhood hero,
Speaker 3: my father and my mother. Favorite sport to watch football,
Speaker 3: Green Bay Packers. The most important piece of advice you
Speaker 3: ever received.
Speaker 2: Don't sweat the small stuff.
Speaker 3: Let's jump in now to put your company in context
Speaker 3: and perspective and what you're doing there. I want to
Speaker 3: do just a little history because I'm sort of a
Speaker 3: fanboy from Tom Watson Junior, so I want to tell
Speaker 3: a little story here and then talk about how it
Speaker 3: relates to you. In eighteen eighty four, National Cash Register
Speaker 3: Company NCR was founded one hundred years ago. Is one
Speaker 3: of the dominant high tech companies, so much so that
Speaker 3: the government indicted some of their senior executives in nineteen
Speaker 3: thirteen for anti trust. One of them was the head
Speaker 3: of sales, Tom Watson, and they fired him. In the
Speaker 3: aftermath of the government indictment. In nineteen fourteen, he goes
Speaker 3: to another high tech company, CTR, which stood for Computing,
Speaker 3: Tabulating Recording, as general manager. Ten years later he is
Speaker 3: made president and the company was renamed IBM International Business Machines.
Speaker 3: Watson was a true visionary. In the nineteen forties, IBM
Speaker 3: helped develop the Harvard Mark one. In nineteen fifty two,
Speaker 3: IBM released its first commercial scientific computer, the IBM seven
Speaker 3: oh one, which was its real entry into the computer biz.
Speaker 3: Tom Watson Senior was somewhat cautious about moving beyond punch cards,
Speaker 3: but his son Tom Watson Junior was not. Tom Watson
Speaker 3: Junior was president of IBM in fifty two, took over
Speaker 3: a CEO upon his father's death in fifty six. And
Speaker 3: the modern IBM is really, from my perspective of the
Speaker 3: outsider looking in, it was his creation. He moved it
Speaker 3: from a family run business to the modern management and
Speaker 3: corporate structure and operations. He was a true leader and
Speaker 3: innovator in American business practices. In addition to what he
Speaker 3: did with IBM, the big bet was on the IBM
Speaker 3: System three sixty in nineteen sixty four. Might have even
Speaker 3: been a bet the company move. Might be argued also
Speaker 3: that it's set up the computer battles for the decades
Speaker 3: to come. So you've got this amazing and historic brand.
Speaker 3: I tell the story only to really talk about what
Speaker 3: a brand this is. How do you think about the
Speaker 3: brand and how do you manage to keep it evolving.
Speaker 2: You know, you don't become one hundred and thirteen year
Speaker 2: old technology company without reinventing yourself. And you even talked
Speaker 2: about it in recounting the history. And I think about
Speaker 2: the brand is one of the most valuable assets we've
Speaker 2: got as a company. I think that people really trust IBM.
Speaker 2: There's the old saying of you don't get fired for
Speaker 2: hiring IBM that used to be there. And I think
Speaker 2: that people look at IBM and when you engage with IBM,
Speaker 2: these are the men and women who are going to
Speaker 2: help us get to where we need to be. And
Speaker 2: we can trust them to come in and do the
Speaker 2: right thing for us and help us advance our business
Speaker 2: and take advantage of our opportun unities. Have we had
Speaker 2: our bumps? Yeah? Along the way we've had our bumps.
Speaker 2: Have we not always necessarily stood for that? Yeah? And
Speaker 2: I would tell you the story of when I first
Speaker 2: got this job offer. I called one of my closest
Speaker 2: friends and I said to him I got this offer
Speaker 2: from IBM and told them all about it. It was
Speaker 2: to run communications. He said to me, I'm really happy
Speaker 2: for you, you know, because he knew I've been looking
Speaker 2: for a while. He's like, this is great. He said,
Speaker 2: I only have one question for you, what does IBM do.
Speaker 2: This guy happened to be Sati Anadella's chief of staff.
Speaker 2: So it said to me, there's a lot of green
Speaker 2: space to make sure people understand where the company's going.
Speaker 2: The opportunity that lies ahead for us as a company
Speaker 2: and the ability for us to get much more focused
Speaker 2: so people understand what we do, what we don't do,
Speaker 2: and then how that brand carries behind it.
Speaker 3: So let's take one step down talk about brands in general.
Speaker 3: What do you think a brand does for a company
Speaker 3: and its products? What is the brand?
Speaker 2: I think the brand is the principles, It's the people,
Speaker 2: it's the policies, it's the practice. I talked about trust before.
Speaker 2: People trust it, but that's because trust and ethics are
Speaker 2: at the heart of how we operate as a company.
Speaker 2: I think a brand is a manifestation of what you
Speaker 2: bring to life as the organization, not just what you
Speaker 2: sell to your customers or your clients, but how you operate,
Speaker 2: how you work together inside of a company. That is
Speaker 2: what the brand is. And then people look at that
Speaker 2: and go, I want to be associated with that, or
Speaker 2: I don't want to be associated with it.
Speaker 3: In certain cases, you were at Microsoft and you've been
Speaker 3: at IBM, two big tech names in American history. By
Speaker 3: the way, both of them evolved and as you say,
Speaker 3: up and down. But how would you compare and contrast
Speaker 3: those two brands.
Speaker 2: There are two iconic brands in the history of our country,
Speaker 2: and I would argue in the world and the changes
Speaker 2: that both of them have made in the economy, in
Speaker 2: the lives of people around the world, it's hard to
Speaker 2: find others that have had the same impact. In my view,
Speaker 2: I would say Microsoft's a much more consumer facing brand,
Speaker 2: and people know when they're dealing with Microsoft when you
Speaker 2: open Word or Office or any of those things or
Speaker 2: use your Xbox. IBM, on the other hand, the way
Speaker 2: I like to think of it as in many regards
Speaker 2: where like the rails, people interact with us every day.
Speaker 2: Most times, I would argue, people don't know they're dealing
Speaker 2: with us unless you really are focused on what does
Speaker 2: IBM do into the details. So they're two different paths,
Speaker 2: but two iconic brands, two iconic corporations that are really
Speaker 2: important to our country and to the broader global economy.
Speaker 3: You did a wide range of work for clients all
Speaker 3: over the globe when you were at Edelman huge pr agency.
Speaker 3: What lessons did you take away from that that really
Speaker 3: added a dimension to you as and shaped you as
Speaker 3: a marketer.
Speaker 2: One of the things for me, Bob you alluded to
Speaker 2: it in the opening is how much I loved Camp
Speaker 2: I grew up going to summer camp in the north
Speaker 2: woods of Wisconsin, a place called camp In or Lochin,
Speaker 2: and I really learned there the meaning of a hard
Speaker 2: day's work and the ability to say I'm not going
Speaker 2: to ask somebody to do anything that I wouldn't do myself.
Speaker 2: Up a camp, I'd teach lifeguarding. And you're in a
Speaker 2: cold lake in the middle of Wisconsin and.
Speaker 3: Really cold, really cold cold lake, you I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: Say, go swim laps without me jumping in with the
Speaker 2: class and saying, Okay, I'm going to swim the laps
Speaker 2: with you. Fast forward, and I take that gentleman where
Speaker 2: I sort of said, we're all going to roll up
Speaker 2: our sleeves and do whatever we need to do together.
Speaker 2: And I carry that with me today, that whatever needs
Speaker 2: to be done, we just need to do it. And
Speaker 2: the other big thing I remember often saying to Richard Edelman,
Speaker 2: who was a great sponsor and mentor of mine and
Speaker 2: gave me some amazing opportunities. But I would say to
Speaker 2: Richard oftentimes I'm going to do this job, Richard, like
Speaker 2: I don't need it. And if you take that approach
Speaker 2: of like I'm just going to go do it the
Speaker 2: way I think is right. And if it's not the
Speaker 2: right way, and you say, hey, you got to go.
Speaker 2: You got to be willing to take risks is basically
Speaker 2: where I'm getting to because if you don't take risks,
Speaker 2: you're not going to advance your career.
Speaker 3: Fantastic advice. We're going to come some advice later, but
Speaker 3: that's a great piece of it right there. In addition
Speaker 3: to starting and building brands, I've also been involved in
Speaker 3: rehabilitating brands. And it always intrigues me how brands lose
Speaker 3: their way? Why do you think and how do companies
Speaker 3: lose their way on their brand?
Speaker 2: Very simply, they lose focus. If you lose focus, if
Speaker 2: you try and do too many things, if you get
Speaker 2: away from what is core to your business and what
Speaker 2: you need to do as an organization, and make a
Speaker 2: move that's too quick, that doesn't bring your existing clients
Speaker 2: your employees with you, you will start to lose focus.
Speaker 2: I was fortunate when I was at Edelman. I had
Speaker 2: Starbucks as one of the clients and I was the
Speaker 2: global client relationship manager there and Howard Schultz used to
Speaker 2: often say to us, if we lose our existing customers
Speaker 2: because we're focused on getting new ones, We're going to
Speaker 2: spend more time, more money, more effort trying to win
Speaker 2: back the customer we just lost than trying to go
Speaker 2: get the new ones. And we can't do that.
Speaker 3: So in an organization, how do you ingrain that in
Speaker 3: people so that the organization stays focused on focus.
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you what I'm going to tell you.
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell it to you again, and then
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell it to you one more time,
Speaker 2: and I'm going to keep telling it to you until
Speaker 2: you're sick and tired of hearing it from me. Because
Speaker 2: when I get frustrated with it, then finally you're just
Speaker 2: starting to listen. Being repetitive and being transparent that is
Speaker 2: really key.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: It's interesting you talk about that on our music radio stations.
Speaker 3: I start out as a radio announcer and it's on
Speaker 3: the air, and when the people on the air are
Speaker 3: sick of a song, I'd have played this song so
Speaker 3: much if I got to play it one more time.
Speaker 3: Going to shoot myself is about the time the consumer says,
Speaker 3: what's that new song you're playing?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 3: So it's interesting. I think in every business how detached
Speaker 3: do we get from where the consumer is if we're
Speaker 3: not extraordinarily careful about looking at data as opposed to
Speaker 3: trusting our gut.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 3: You know, when you think about brands, there s need
Speaker 3: to be two models. One is, let's call it the
Speaker 3: Steve Jobs model of there is a person who is
Speaker 3: the keeper of the brand. There's the other model and
Speaker 3: Microsoft where the company sort of institutionally kept the brand.
Speaker 3: How do you see it? What do you come down
Speaker 3: on that one?
Speaker 2: I think that when you're looking at a big company overall,
Speaker 2: it's too much for one person, any one person, to
Speaker 2: be the only person who keeps the brand. And I
Speaker 2: think that the principles of the brands need to live
Speaker 2: in the organization on a day to day basis. And
Speaker 2: the way I look at IBM is we've got I
Speaker 2: don't know, more than two hundred and seventy five thousand
Speaker 2: people around the world. They need to be instilled, they
Speaker 2: need to be representing the brand to people around the world.
Speaker 2: They need to be understanding what we're trying to do
Speaker 2: as a company to help them do that, and if
Speaker 2: they're not, then we're failing from the beginning. They're great
Speaker 2: leaders at those big companies that you talked about, But
Speaker 2: I think I'm a believer that the bigger group will
Speaker 2: make it even better.
Speaker 3: You're in charge of marketing. Your job is to get
Speaker 3: the brand out. How do you train those two hundred
Speaker 3: and seventy five thousand employees on the brand?
Speaker 2: You know, it goes back to repetitiveness as we talked about.
Speaker 2: It goes back to radical simplification in the messaging and
Speaker 2: the positioning and what you're trying to do. And it
Speaker 2: really is making sure you're enabling people. You're giving them
Speaker 2: the tools, making it easy for them to find what
Speaker 2: they need to carry that message forward in whatever situation
Speaker 2: they need to be in. You have to serve it
Speaker 2: to people on a silver platter. You can't make it
Speaker 2: an expedition for them them to go find information about
Speaker 2: the brand, about whatever you're trying to do. Otherwise, they
Speaker 2: got other things to do in their lives. They're going
Speaker 2: to go do other things and then tell whatever story
Speaker 2: they want.
Speaker 3: Let's apply it to politics. I know you were in
Speaker 3: the Clinton administration, and for those of us who were
Speaker 3: old enough to be a part of all that, you
Speaker 3: would argue a brilliant marketer of what he did. Can
Speaker 3: you use some examples from that.
Speaker 2: You know, I think for him, he got to very
Speaker 2: direct engagement with the voters, and he made it a
Speaker 2: very simple message. Remember, it's about the economy, stupid, right,
Speaker 2: And that was key and everybody could understand that simple message.
Speaker 2: And he was so engaging with people that whether you
Speaker 2: were in the room, if you were in the room
Speaker 2: and engaging with them, you felt like you were the
Speaker 2: only person there. You could be in a room of
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand people and you felt like you were
Speaker 2: the only person. You and he were the only two
Speaker 2: people there. But if you were also watching it on
Speaker 2: television or seeing of it someplace, I think that carried
Speaker 2: through it transcended. President Clinton was an amazing is an
Speaker 2: amazing communicator, and I think it's he's one of the
Speaker 2: rare talents. You don't see people at that level on
Speaker 2: a regular basis, and I think that's really how he
Speaker 2: pushed it.
Speaker 3: I want to tie brand a little bit to corporate culture.
Speaker 3: How do you think about corporate culture? What is it
Speaker 3: and how does it help a company succeed.
Speaker 2: Corporate culture is really important because you can get set
Speaker 2: on the business and know where you're going from a
Speaker 2: here's our objective from a business goal, But how do
Speaker 2: you get the culture that's going to be there to
Speaker 2: really enable that is a whole other effort. And as
Speaker 2: I talk about it with Arvin Krishna, our CEO today,
Speaker 2: Arvin's very focused on how do we make sure that
Speaker 2: we've got a culture that enables what we want people
Speaker 2: to do? And I think a key part of this
Speaker 2: whole driving a culture. There's transparency, there's the ability for
Speaker 2: people to take risks, there's the ability for people to
Speaker 2: move with speed. Those are really important pieces. But there's
Speaker 2: also the ability to celebrate the successes that people have
Speaker 2: in a corporate culture. And equally, I feel like you've
Speaker 2: got to be able to celebrate the failures, right because
Speaker 2: if you don't celebrate the failures, nobody's going to be
Speaker 2: willing to take a risk. And if you can't take
Speaker 2: a risk, you're not going to change a culture. So
Speaker 2: how do you continually evolve? And I think that evolution
Speaker 2: of a culture is more important today than it was
Speaker 2: in the past because business is changing, technology is changing,
Speaker 2: the landscape is changing so much.
Speaker 3: I think your point about celebrating mistakes failures is hugely important.
Speaker 3: How do you do that.
Speaker 2: I'll give you an example of me. One of my
Speaker 2: first meetings that I had and once I took over
Speaker 2: marketing with Arvind and some of my peers. It was
Speaker 2: my worst performance in my professional career, hands down. Why
Speaker 2: I was anxious. I didn't have my hands around the
Speaker 2: data the way I wanted it to. I didn't feel comfortable.
Speaker 2: I just I did not land it. It was so
Speaker 2: bad that Arvin stopped me in the middle of the
Speaker 2: meeting in front of everybody and said we'll deal with
Speaker 2: it later. I called him after the meeting and I
Speaker 2: talked to him and I apologized because I was like,
Speaker 2: that's not what you expect from me, and that's not
Speaker 2: why I'm here. And he gave me some good feedback
Speaker 2: and was understanding and was clear that we're going to
Speaker 2: fix it. It's not fine, but we're going to fix it.
Speaker 2: And every Friday I write a note to my entire
Speaker 2: team around the world, and that Friday, I wrote a
Speaker 2: note in explicit detail explaining to people what happened there.
Speaker 2: And many people could not believe that I was being
Speaker 2: that vulnerable and that transparent with my team at all
Speaker 2: levels of my team, saying this is what I did,
Speaker 2: and oh, by the way, the CEO cut me off
Speaker 2: because I was so bad. It showed people A not
Speaker 2: everything's perfect, and b we all can make mistakes and
Speaker 2: things can happen, and you can adjust, you can learn
Speaker 2: from them, and you can take a step forward and
Speaker 2: do it. That's a simple example for me.
Speaker 3: Did that writing the note give you more cred and
Speaker 3: stronger relationships with the org than if you had done
Speaker 3: a really good presentation. Never had the opportunity to do
Speaker 3: something like that.
Speaker 2: I think it helped me with some people, not with everybody,
Speaker 2: And personally writing that note was so cathartic for me
Speaker 2: as well. But I think it was important to show
Speaker 2: that not everything's going to be perfect, because I say
Speaker 2: it all the time, not everything's going to be perfect,
Speaker 2: But you have to show that not everything's going to
Speaker 2: be perfect.
Speaker 3: I worked for a brilliant entrepreneur, Steve Ross, who really
Speaker 3: created Time Warner out of have Spather and lost two
Speaker 3: funeral homes, and he used to say, you know, Bob,
Speaker 3: you'll never be fired here for making a mistake. You'll
Speaker 3: be fired here for not making a mistake. John making
Speaker 3: a mistake tells me I don't try anything new because
Speaker 3: nobody gets it right one hundred percent of the times,
Speaker 3: and we want you to try new things. More of
Speaker 3: math and magic. Right after this quick break, welcome back
Speaker 3: to Mathem Magic. Let's hear more from my conversation with
Speaker 3: Jonathan Adaschek. Let's go back in time to get context
Speaker 3: on you. Milwaukee. I actually was the midday disc jockey
Speaker 3: a writ radio there in nineteen seventy two. I did
Speaker 3: one semester at Carroll College in Walkshaw. I once ran
Speaker 3: a theme park company, six Flags, with a park halfway
Speaker 3: between Chicago and Milwaukee. And yet Milwaukee remains a mystery
Speaker 3: to me. Can you explain that? I mean, it is
Speaker 3: a unique culture. They don't have water fountain, stay of bubblers.
Speaker 3: Can you explain it? And tell us about the Milwaukee
Speaker 3: that was there when you were growing up.
Speaker 2: So I grew up just north of the city in
Speaker 2: the suburb was a town called Whitefish Bay. It was
Speaker 2: a great place to raise a family and to be
Speaker 2: a kid growing up and playing in the streets. We
Speaker 2: used to play kick the can and climb on the
Speaker 2: neighbor's roof to hide from other people and all that
Speaker 2: kind of fun stuff. And it was an amazing place. Unfortunately.
Speaker 2: It was also a very segregated city, to the point
Speaker 2: that my mother was on the school board and in
Speaker 2: Whitefish Bay, and there was a big desegregation lawsuit and
Speaker 2: it was Section two twenty, I believe it was called.
Speaker 2: And part of the settlement was that the suburbs would
Speaker 2: bust kids into the city, and the city would bust
Speaker 2: kids into the suburbs. And my mother said, I'm going
Speaker 2: to ask the people in the village Whitefish Paid to
Speaker 2: do the same thing. I'm going to lead by example,
Speaker 2: so you know, I want you to go. My parents
Speaker 2: told me, you're going to go, get on the bus
Speaker 2: and go into the city. And I loved it. I
Speaker 2: loved it. I used to take the bus to elementary
Speaker 2: school in downtown. It was across the street from the
Speaker 2: Schlitz Brewery. And I remember the day the Schlitz Brewery
Speaker 2: went on strike and never came back. And I remember
Speaker 2: asking the bus driver every day to stop at the
Speaker 2: USA Today box I can put a quarter in and
Speaker 2: get the paper. It was just a great city, a
Speaker 2: city that is so passionate about Milwaukee, about the brewers,
Speaker 2: about the bucks, about the packers, about just the great
Speaker 2: heritage there, you know, the saying is it's a great
Speaker 2: city on a great lake.
Speaker 3: And it really is an amazing I've not heard that one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great line, and it's changed a lot
Speaker 2: and it's even more fun to go to today.
Speaker 3: I grew up in Mississippi and I drove to Milwaukee
Speaker 3: in a car, had never been north of Saint Louis
Speaker 3: and I showed up there and man, I hate food
Speaker 3: I never seen in my life. I mean meat and
Speaker 3: potatoes Mississippi. To the food that was available in Milwaukee,
Speaker 3: it was great interest in me. Frozen custard, yeah, god,
Speaker 3: it everything.
Speaker 2: It's amazing.
Speaker 3: I still go back every year.
Speaker 2: My kids go to the same summer camp that I
Speaker 2: went to growing up.
Speaker 3: You've talked about camp being very important. Clearly it's had
Speaker 3: an impact on you. What do you think it really
Speaker 3: did for you and what do you think people can
Speaker 3: get out of camp with their kids.
Speaker 2: Camp is the place that I have my closest friends.
Speaker 2: Those are my closest friends.
Speaker 3: And how many were from Milwaukee versus other places?
Speaker 2: A lot were from Milwaukee, some from Madison, some from Chicago.
Speaker 2: But you also had people who would come from Israel
Speaker 2: every year, or there was a guy who lived in
Speaker 2: Hawaii or the guy who lived in France. But it's
Speaker 2: become even broader now, but those are my closest friends
Speaker 2: still to this day. We are all there for each
Speaker 2: other at the moments that it matters the most, whether
Speaker 2: that's a celebration or a moment of sorrow with the
Speaker 2: loss of a parent or a sibling. We all travel
Speaker 2: around the world to see each other. It taught me
Speaker 2: about relationships, taught me about a hard day's work. As
Speaker 2: I got older and worked there we build and you know,
Speaker 2: have these amazing days out in the north woods of Wisconsin,
Speaker 2: and I just love it and I love the fact
Speaker 2: that my kids go there.
Speaker 3: What life lessons did you learn from your parents?
Speaker 2: My parents did everything they could to take care of us,
Speaker 2: there were five of us, and to give us the
Speaker 2: best life they really could. And it wasn't without hardships.
Speaker 2: My dad was an entrepreneur and had his ups and
Speaker 2: downs in business, and that could cause some difficulties in
Speaker 2: the house money wise or just tensions, but we always
Speaker 2: found a way to work through it. And they always said,
Speaker 2: you know what, unconditional love is there, and it's something
Speaker 2: that I always make sure my kids know that unconditional love,
Speaker 2: no matter what happens, is never going to go away.
Speaker 2: And when I get on a plane, every time I
Speaker 2: leave the house, I always say to my kids, never forget. Well,
Speaker 2: I might not be here tonight to say good night
Speaker 2: to you. Don't forget I love you more than anything
Speaker 2: else in the world. And I really took that from them,
Speaker 2: and I really try hard to carry it forward.
Speaker 3: That's great to push that to the next generation. And
Speaker 3: by the way, there's a through line you hear again
Speaker 3: and again and again of successful and confident people. How
Speaker 3: did you jump to politics? Was that your goal to
Speaker 3: be in politics or was that an accident?
Speaker 2: My mom ran for school board and I still remember
Speaker 2: hammering the signs into the frozen ground of Wisconsin Whitefish Bay,
Speaker 2: and I remember saying, I was I don't know, nine,
Speaker 2: ten years old, and I was like, I want to
Speaker 2: go work in the White House one day, and I
Speaker 2: want to slog through the snows of Iowa or New
Speaker 2: Hampshire with a presidential candidate. And I just stayed focused
Speaker 2: on it, and so yes, it was my goal, Wow,
Speaker 2: to go to Washington, d C. To work in the
Speaker 2: White House in the West Wing.
Speaker 3: And when'd you go to the Clinton White House? When
Speaker 3: was that? What year is.
Speaker 2: At ninety seven? I started in the White House?
Speaker 3: Well, lucky you.
Speaker 2: And then slog through the snows of Iowa with John
Speaker 2: Kerrey when he was running for president. It was great.
Speaker 2: I was very fortunate. I had two big goals I
Speaker 2: wanted to do and I got to do them both.
Speaker 2: You know, at a very young age.
Speaker 3: Well it's fabulous. Just jump to autos. You were actually
Speaker 3: working in Japan and Nissan. How did you wind up there?
Speaker 3: I mean, this is a jump and you, I guess,
Speaker 3: had been an Edelman before that, right?
Speaker 2: I went Edelman, then I went to Microsoft, then I
Speaker 2: went to Nissan, and I knew that I wanted to
Speaker 2: make a change for Microsoft. I loved Microsoft, but I
Speaker 2: knew that I wanted to become the chief communications officer
Speaker 2: at a global company and ideally live overseas. And this
Speaker 2: sort of came about a lot of people said to me,
Speaker 2: what's the difference? How did you make that jump? In reality?
Speaker 2: Today a car is not just an engine on four wheels.
Speaker 2: It's a computer sitting on top of an engine on
Speaker 2: four wheels. Today it's helping to facilitate how you move
Speaker 2: your whole interactions that you've got on your phone and
Speaker 2: whatever content that whole thing. So it was a much
Speaker 2: easier transition. I felt like then a lot of people
Speaker 2: thought it would be. I would say a big difference
Speaker 2: is when you look at the margins and the two businesses. Right,
Speaker 2: Automotive Nissan's an amazing company. I'm its biggest cheerleader, But
Speaker 2: the margins and automotive are much thinner than they are
Speaker 2: in technology. And you really watch your dollars, and I
Speaker 2: think it makes you get a lot more creative in
Speaker 2: how you spend them and where interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, even in a high margin business, cost matter, Cost
Speaker 3: matter still goes to the.
Speaker 2: Spend a lot of time on that topic. Right now.
Speaker 3: I was going to ask you what you learned in
Speaker 3: that industry, but it sounds like you learned about cost
Speaker 3: and the importance of it. What else?
Speaker 2: I also learned a lot about the global perspective. Right So,
Speaker 2: at Nissan I had a team of three hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty people around the world who were really working on
Speaker 2: a range of different issues everywhere, whether it was around manufacturing,
Speaker 2: or it was selling vehicles, or it was regulations or
Speaker 2: issues management, any of those things, and it would differ
Speaker 2: from wherever you were in the world. I was forced
Speaker 2: to learn a lot more about if you take an
Speaker 2: action here in this country, how is it going to
Speaker 2: carry over to another place?
Speaker 3: As on a side, did you ever learn to speak Japanese.
Speaker 2: A little bit? But I could say to you right now,
Speaker 2: futatsubidugon guys chamas.
Speaker 3: I have no idea what you said, but it sounds
Speaker 3: impressive to beers. Please, Okay, so let's jump to hot topic.
Speaker 3: It's something we have to talk about always on Mathemagic AI.
Speaker 3: In addition to selling it, you actually use it. You're
Speaker 3: right in the middle of it. You've used it to
Speaker 3: transform your own infrastructure. Can you talk about the Let's
Speaker 3: Create marketing campaign launch in twenty twenty two and how
Speaker 3: you pulled AI around that, and then talk about how
Speaker 3: you've used AI in the organization.
Speaker 2: AI's been really instrumental for us as a company. We've
Speaker 2: been at it for a long time from Watson and Jeopardy.
Speaker 2: But when Arvin Christian became CEO in April of twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: he said, we are going to be the leading hybrid
Speaker 2: cloud and AI company. This is well before everybody's talking
Speaker 2: about generative AI. That focus that helped us then take
Speaker 2: it to the rest of the activities we were going
Speaker 2: to do around marketing, around communications, around the products that
Speaker 2: we build. And a fundamental that we've been doing is
Speaker 2: we've implemented what we would call client zero, where we're
Speaker 2: creating AI products and services, we're using them ourselves as
Speaker 2: a company, and then we're going to talk to people
Speaker 2: about those. So in the past two years, we've taken
Speaker 2: roughly three point five billion dollars out of our run rate,
Speaker 2: largely using AI and automation. That then we can go
Speaker 2: have a conversation with somebody and say this is what
Speaker 2: we did. Let me share with you the good, the bad,
Speaker 2: the ugly. People will then make it decision if they're
Speaker 2: going to work with us or sometimes we're just sharing
Speaker 2: that out of best practices. There many times I have
Speaker 2: conversations with fellow marketing leaders about how do we simplify
Speaker 2: how do we take our event budget? And today we
Speaker 2: do half the number of events that we were doing
Speaker 2: just over two years ago, but we're getting five percent
Speaker 2: more return on those events because we're much more targeted
Speaker 2: using AI. We're creating better content, we're creating better experiences.
Speaker 2: I've got a team of roughly three hundred designers, eighty
Speaker 2: percent of their average time is spent on derivative assets.
Speaker 2: By giving them AI tools, we can take that eighty
Speaker 2: percent down. That's not eliminating their job, but that's enabling
Speaker 2: them to do more creative But for me, it's just starting.
Speaker 2: There's so much more AI that we're building out in
Speaker 2: the function for marketing, for communications, for CSR across the board.
Speaker 2: That's really going to change the way we're managing our
Speaker 2: content andbuting it making sure we're taking people on a
Speaker 2: journey that is full of not just personalized content, because
Speaker 2: that is where everybody seems to be going in marketing today.
Speaker 2: It's got to be relevant content because I couple weeks
Speaker 2: ago got a personalized email in my work address around
Speaker 2: a hair extension thing, and I didn't care about it.
Speaker 2: But if it was relevant, then it's a different level
Speaker 2: of engagements. I think people who are just talking about
Speaker 2: personalization only have half the story.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're very much on target. I was
Speaker 3: at AOL in the mid nineties when we sort of
Speaker 3: brought the Internet to the mass market, and it's interesting
Speaker 3: everybody was talking at the time and said, you know,
Speaker 3: you're going to have all this free time now because
Speaker 3: this is going to do We didn't have any free time.
Speaker 3: We did more work. Whatever time we had we filled up.
Speaker 3: We was able to double our work, triple our work.
Speaker 3: And you're making that point about AI that we're not
Speaker 3: going to create more time for us to do nothing.
Speaker 3: We're going to do more in that same amount of time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean jobs will change, people will have to
Speaker 2: move into different roles. If you think about go back
Speaker 2: to telephones, right, for a while, you had to call
Speaker 2: the operator, had to patch the call through. Yeah, when
Speaker 2: the operators went away, that didn't mean that all those
Speaker 2: people lost went out of work, became unemployed. They changed
Speaker 2: the roles that they were in. You can see this
Speaker 2: happen through the history of our economy in the past, right,
Speaker 2: and I think it's going to happen here too.
Speaker 3: So let's go back to the Let's Create marketing campaign
Speaker 3: which you were talking about focus and I just love
Speaker 3: what you did with Let's Create because at the heart
Speaker 3: of it, it seems to be about focus, about let's
Speaker 3: take all these disparate things and let's build one umbrella
Speaker 3: for this company.
Speaker 2: We had more than forty three campaigns out there at
Speaker 2: any one time, and really trying to get everything under
Speaker 2: one umbrella was crucial for us. You know, a lot
Speaker 2: of this is driven by data, and our fundamental is
Speaker 2: our clients. Data is our clients data. It's never our data.
Speaker 2: They hold the keys for it. So the only way
Speaker 2: you can really get to a solution or take advantage
Speaker 2: of an opportunity is by doing it together. And that's
Speaker 2: why we went with a model of let's create and
Speaker 2: it's really been a big focus for us. And it's
Speaker 2: not just an advertising tagline, it's what we're trying to
Speaker 2: do with our clients in practice as well, and really
Speaker 2: part of our work as an organization as a company
Speaker 2: is we don't just go in and solve our clients
Speaker 2: problems for them, we create solutions.
Speaker 3: Five years from now, paint the picture of how AI
Speaker 3: will change American business or worldwide business.
Speaker 2: Today we say AI is moving so fast. I think
Speaker 2: five years from now we'll probably look back and go
Speaker 2: it didn't move as fast as we were thinking at
Speaker 2: the time. But I think that what's going to be
Speaker 2: key is skilling in five years from now, because the
Speaker 2: average shelf life of technology skill to day is just
Speaker 2: under three years, so the ability to give people time
Speaker 2: in jobs to regulate, keep their skills up to either
Speaker 2: use an AI tool or operate in an organization that
Speaker 2: has AI deployed. That is going to become more normal.
Speaker 2: I'm more normalized. I work in a company that today
Speaker 2: does think forty and says you should take forty hours
Speaker 2: of learning a year, So we provide opportunities. Not everybody
Speaker 2: gets that same opportunity, and I think that's going to
Speaker 2: be more regular. I think that the ability if I
Speaker 2: focus into where we are in marketing and the client journeys,
Speaker 2: I think it's going to be a much more personalized,
Speaker 2: relevant journey that is going to have a better understanding
Speaker 2: of where they are in a buying cycle, when they're engaged,
Speaker 2: when they're not engaged, in how you better tell the
Speaker 2: story to them at the various times where they are.
Speaker 2: And I think it's going to create more opportunities for
Speaker 2: people to focus on the things that they're really passionate
Speaker 2: about and bring new ideas to the market.
Speaker 3: I want to do a little advice. You've got this
Speaker 3: great range of experience someone wants to build a career.
Speaker 3: How important do you think range is versus I'm starting
Speaker 3: here in the marketing department and I'm going to one
Speaker 3: day wind up being the CMO. I mean two different
Speaker 3: approaches to winding up in the job you're in.
Speaker 2: I think that you have to get to a point
Speaker 2: where you have a good level of discomfort in your job.
Speaker 2: People get to a job and they get to a
Speaker 2: place where they're like, I can do one hundred percent
Speaker 2: of this job with my eyes closed, and I'm always comfortable.
Speaker 2: And I think you need to get to a place
Speaker 2: where you're like ten percent comfortable and ninety percent is
Speaker 2: forcing you to learn new muscles, and I'm always trying
Speaker 2: to learn build new muscles. You can do that. You
Speaker 2: can say I'm going to start in this marketing job
Speaker 2: and I want to be the CMO. But the best
Speaker 2: way in my mind to do that is to build
Speaker 2: a vast set of professional muscles so that you understand, Hey,
Speaker 2: the business is trying to do this, and I understand
Speaker 2: why they're trying to do that and the impact it's
Speaker 2: going to have on our bottom line, so that I
Speaker 2: can then understand what marketing actions I have to take
Speaker 2: to deliver my part against that. So I think that
Speaker 2: range is important, and I think it provides people with
Speaker 2: opportunities that they never even thought about before.
Speaker 3: Fantastic. So one more piece of advice, if you could
Speaker 3: go back in time, what advice would you give your
Speaker 3: twenty one year old self.
Speaker 2: Don't sweat the small stuff and don't get so excited.
Speaker 3: You know what, That's a very common advice people give
Speaker 3: through the twenty one year old self. This must be
Speaker 3: something about twenty one year olds versus a older folks.
Speaker 2: I used to get a little more excited in my days,
Speaker 2: and I try and just be a little more relaxed
Speaker 2: now because I now understand that not everything's going to
Speaker 2: be perfect. How do you learn from every interaction you've got?
Speaker 3: We end each episode of Math and Magic to allow
Speaker 3: us to do a shout out. It's called math and
Speaker 3: magic because I think there are the two components of marketing,
Speaker 3: two components of business. Is you've got to know the data,
Speaker 3: you got to know the math side of it, but
Speaker 3: you've also got to do something with it. Just because
Speaker 3: you know about the person, I mean, you can excite them.
Speaker 3: You need some magic there. Who would you give the
Speaker 3: shout out to for the math side and the magic side?
Speaker 2: I got to say on the math side, the ability
Speaker 2: to understand the data and to really look at things.
Speaker 2: There's two people who I've come across in my life
Speaker 2: who really get it more than any others. One is
Speaker 2: Larry Summers when he was Treasury Secretary. I worked for
Speaker 2: Larry and his ability to look at information and put
Speaker 2: it together and really comprehend it in a way that
Speaker 2: none of us could as as quickly as he could.
Speaker 2: For sure, it made an impact. Sometimes it was frustratingly impressive.
Speaker 2: And my current boss, Arvin Krishna, he understands the data
Speaker 2: unlike anybody else I deal with, and I sit down
Speaker 2: with him and talk about things, and his ability to
Speaker 2: pull a fact from here in a fact from here
Speaker 2: and put it together and then do the math around
Speaker 2: it is really quite amazing. On the magic side, can
Speaker 2: I give you my magician in general?
Speaker 3: Yes? Please?
Speaker 2: Oh's the mentalist.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Somebody just said they just saw him,
Speaker 3: and then they made me watch a video that had
Speaker 3: taken on their cell phone. Jonathan, I am really fascinated
Speaker 3: with the range of your career. It's really unusual and
Speaker 3: very impressive if you ever get the chance to do it,
Speaker 3: and those that do don't do it quite as well
Speaker 3: as you do. And the momentum you've got at IBM
Speaker 3: is so impressive. Thanks for sharing your insights and stories today.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Bob for having me and really honored to
Speaker 2: be here. And I'm a lucky guy throughout my career
Speaker 2: and lucky to be here with you today.
Speaker 3: Well, you're very nice. Thanks. Here are a few things
Speaker 3: I picked up from my conversation with Jonathan. One, do
Speaker 3: your job like you don't need it. This may sound counterintuitive,
Speaker 3: but for Jonathan, his philosophy revolves around taking risk. If
Speaker 3: you're playing it safe for getting comfortable, you're not living
Speaker 3: up your full potential. He believes that trusting your instincts,
Speaker 3: putting yourself out there, and even failing can be the
Speaker 3: pathway to advancing your career.
Speaker 2: Two.
Speaker 3: Repetition doesn't have to hold you back. Lived experience and
Speaker 3: data shows that when you're getting sick of a certain message,
Speaker 3: that's about the moment when other people are starting to
Speaker 3: hear it. Radical simplification and repetition are what makes a
Speaker 3: message truly accessible, whether within a company culture or for consumers.
Speaker 3: It's not about keeping you stuck where you are. It's
Speaker 3: about advancing and broader understanding of your story. Three. B
Speaker 3: Client zero at a time when AI is still daunting
Speaker 3: for many, IBM is leading the conversation by example. They're
Speaker 3: embracing AI at every level, and they're being transparent about
Speaker 3: the good and the bad. AI has allowed the company
Speaker 3: to grow by leaps and bounds, but perhaps more importantly,
Speaker 3: they've established a trustworthy reputation in a rapidly evolving space.
Speaker 3: I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. That's it for today's episode.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, thanks for listening to Math and Magic,
Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Podcasts. The show is created and
Speaker 1: hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sidney Rosenbloom for
Speaker 1: booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is no small feat.
Speaker 1: The Math and Magic team is Jessica Crimechich and Baheath Fraser.
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Ali Perry and Nikki Etoor.
Speaker 3: Until next time.