1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,479 Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart Podcasts. 2 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 2: There's also the ability to celebrate the successes that people 3 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 2: have in a corporate culture. And equally, I feel like 4 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 2: you've got to be able to celebrate the failures, right 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 2: because if you don't celebrate the failures, nobody's going to 6 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 2: be willing to take a risk. And if you can't 7 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 2: take a risk, you're not going to change a culture. 8 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Bob Pittman. Welcome to Math and Magic. Stories 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 3: from the Frontiers and Marketing. Today, we have someone who 10 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 3: has a storied career, much of it was centered around 11 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 3: PR and communications, and he's got some unique insights for 12 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 3: us coming from that perspective. He's the head of marketing 13 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 3: and Communications for the legendary IBM. It's Jonathan Atischeck. Jonathan 14 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 3: was born and grew up in Milwaukee, loved Camp, started 15 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 3: with a career in politics, moved on to the business 16 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 3: side of a PR firm, an automotive Giant Attack Giant, 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 3: before arriving at IBM. He not only is involved in 18 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 3: AI as a business, he's used it to transform the 19 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 3: marketing function at IBM. He's described by those around him 20 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 3: as very real Welcome Jonathan, Thanks Bob. 21 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 2: Great to be here. 22 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 3: Before we jump into the hot topics today, I want 23 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:22,839 Speaker 3: to start with you in sixty seconds. Are you ready? 24 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 2: Yep? 25 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 3: Do you prefer cats or dogs? 26 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 2: Dogs? 27 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 3: Early riser, night out? Both West Coast or. 28 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 4: East Coast, East Coast, New York City or Milwaukee Milwaukee, copa, 29 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 4: Pepsi coke, beach or mountains beach, rock and roll, our Country, 30 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 4: rock and roll coffee or tea, t Books or movies, books, 31 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:42,479 Speaker 4: podcasts or streaming TV. 32 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 2: Streaming TV except for this podcast. 33 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you, the right answer, Cook, read out, Cook, 34 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 3: Crocs or Nikes, Crocs, comedy or drama, comedy Japan or Paris, Japan. 35 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 3: Harley Davidson or Honda Harley Davidson. Okay, we're getting a 36 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 3: little harder. All time favorite music art so grateful dead. 37 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 3: What was your first computer? 38 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 2: An Apple iiO. 39 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 3: Not even the GS No oh, I love that first job. 40 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:12,239 Speaker 3: A camp counselor smartest person you know, my wife, childhood hero, 41 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 3: my father and my mother. Favorite sport to watch football, 42 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 3: Green Bay Packers. The most important piece of advice you 43 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 3: ever received. 44 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: Don't sweat the small stuff. 45 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 3: Let's jump in now to put your company in context 46 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 3: and perspective and what you're doing there. I want to 47 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 3: do just a little history because I'm sort of a 48 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 3: fanboy from Tom Watson Junior, so I want to tell 49 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 3: a little story here and then talk about how it 50 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 3: relates to you. In eighteen eighty four, National Cash Register 51 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 3: Company NCR was founded one hundred years ago. Is one 52 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 3: of the dominant high tech companies, so much so that 53 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 3: the government indicted some of their senior executives in nineteen 54 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 3: thirteen for anti trust. One of them was the head 55 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 3: of sales, Tom Watson, and they fired him. In the 56 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 3: aftermath of the government indictment. In nineteen fourteen, he goes 57 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 3: to another high tech company, CTR, which stood for Computing, 58 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:06,520 Speaker 3: Tabulating Recording, as general manager. Ten years later he is 59 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 3: made president and the company was renamed IBM International Business Machines. 60 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 3: Watson was a true visionary. In the nineteen forties, IBM 61 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 3: helped develop the Harvard Mark one. In nineteen fifty two, 62 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:23,679 Speaker 3: IBM released its first commercial scientific computer, the IBM seven 63 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 3: oh one, which was its real entry into the computer biz. 64 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 3: Tom Watson Senior was somewhat cautious about moving beyond punch cards, 65 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 3: but his son Tom Watson Junior was not. Tom Watson 66 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 3: Junior was president of IBM in fifty two, took over 67 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 3: a CEO upon his father's death in fifty six. And 68 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 3: the modern IBM is really, from my perspective of the 69 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 3: outsider looking in, it was his creation. He moved it 70 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 3: from a family run business to the modern management and 71 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 3: corporate structure and operations. He was a true leader and 72 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 3: innovator in American business practices. In addition to what he 73 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 3: did with IBM, the big bet was on the IBM 74 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 3: System three sixty in nineteen sixty four. Might have even 75 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 3: been a bet the company move. Might be argued also 76 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 3: that it's set up the computer battles for the decades 77 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 3: to come. So you've got this amazing and historic brand. 78 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 3: I tell the story only to really talk about what 79 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 3: a brand this is. How do you think about the 80 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 3: brand and how do you manage to keep it evolving. 81 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: You know, you don't become one hundred and thirteen year 82 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 2: old technology company without reinventing yourself. And you even talked 83 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 2: about it in recounting the history. And I think about 84 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 2: the brand is one of the most valuable assets we've 85 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: got as a company. I think that people really trust IBM. 86 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 2: There's the old saying of you don't get fired for 87 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: hiring IBM that used to be there. And I think 88 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 2: that people look at IBM and when you engage with IBM, 89 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 2: these are the men and women who are going to 90 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 2: help us get to where we need to be. And 91 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 2: we can trust them to come in and do the 92 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 2: right thing for us and help us advance our business 93 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 2: and take advantage of our opportun unities. Have we had 94 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,239 Speaker 2: our bumps? Yeah? Along the way we've had our bumps. 95 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 2: Have we not always necessarily stood for that? Yeah? And 96 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: I would tell you the story of when I first 97 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 2: got this job offer. I called one of my closest 98 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 2: friends and I said to him I got this offer 99 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: from IBM and told them all about it. It was 100 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: to run communications. He said to me, I'm really happy 101 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: for you, you know, because he knew I've been looking 102 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 2: for a while. He's like, this is great. He said, 103 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 2: I only have one question for you, what does IBM do. 104 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 2: This guy happened to be Sati Anadella's chief of staff. 105 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 2: So it said to me, there's a lot of green 106 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 2: space to make sure people understand where the company's going. 107 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 2: The opportunity that lies ahead for us as a company 108 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 2: and the ability for us to get much more focused 109 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 2: so people understand what we do, what we don't do, 110 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 2: and then how that brand carries behind it. 111 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 3: So let's take one step down talk about brands in general. 112 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,640 Speaker 3: What do you think a brand does for a company 113 00:05:57,720 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 3: and its products? What is the brand? 114 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 2: I think the brand is the principles, It's the people, 115 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 2: it's the policies, it's the practice. I talked about trust before. 116 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 2: People trust it, but that's because trust and ethics are 117 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 2: at the heart of how we operate as a company. 118 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 2: I think a brand is a manifestation of what you 119 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: bring to life as the organization, not just what you 120 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 2: sell to your customers or your clients, but how you operate, 121 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 2: how you work together inside of a company. That is 122 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 2: what the brand is. And then people look at that 123 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 2: and go, I want to be associated with that, or 124 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 2: I don't want to be associated with it. 125 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 3: In certain cases, you were at Microsoft and you've been 126 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 3: at IBM, two big tech names in American history. By 127 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 3: the way, both of them evolved and as you say, 128 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 3: up and down. But how would you compare and contrast 129 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 3: those two brands. 130 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,239 Speaker 2: There are two iconic brands in the history of our country, 131 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 2: and I would argue in the world and the changes 132 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 2: that both of them have made in the economy, in 133 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 2: the lives of people around the world, it's hard to 134 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 2: find others that have had the same impact. In my view, 135 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 2: I would say Microsoft's a much more consumer facing brand, 136 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 2: and people know when they're dealing with Microsoft when you 137 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 2: open Word or Office or any of those things or 138 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 2: use your Xbox. IBM, on the other hand, the way 139 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 2: I like to think of it as in many regards 140 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 2: where like the rails, people interact with us every day. 141 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 2: Most times, I would argue, people don't know they're dealing 142 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 2: with us unless you really are focused on what does 143 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 2: IBM do into the details. So they're two different paths, 144 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 2: but two iconic brands, two iconic corporations that are really 145 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 2: important to our country and to the broader global economy. 146 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 3: You did a wide range of work for clients all 147 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 3: over the globe when you were at Edelman huge pr agency. 148 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 3: What lessons did you take away from that that really 149 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 3: added a dimension to you as and shaped you as 150 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:56,119 Speaker 3: a marketer. 151 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 2: One of the things for me, Bob you alluded to 152 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 2: it in the opening is how much I loved Camp 153 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 2: I grew up going to summer camp in the north 154 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 2: woods of Wisconsin, a place called camp In or Lochin, 155 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 2: and I really learned there the meaning of a hard 156 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 2: day's work and the ability to say I'm not going 157 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: to ask somebody to do anything that I wouldn't do myself. 158 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 2: Up a camp, I'd teach lifeguarding. And you're in a 159 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 2: cold lake in the middle of Wisconsin and. 160 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 3: Really cold, really cold cold lake, you I wouldn't. 161 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 2: Say, go swim laps without me jumping in with the 162 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 2: class and saying, Okay, I'm going to swim the laps 163 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 2: with you. Fast forward, and I take that gentleman where 164 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 2: I sort of said, we're all going to roll up 165 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 2: our sleeves and do whatever we need to do together. 166 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 2: And I carry that with me today, that whatever needs 167 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 2: to be done, we just need to do it. And 168 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 2: the other big thing I remember often saying to Richard Edelman, 169 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 2: who was a great sponsor and mentor of mine and 170 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,679 Speaker 2: gave me some amazing opportunities. But I would say to 171 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 2: Richard oftentimes I'm going to do this job, Richard, like 172 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 2: I don't need it. And if you take that approach 173 00:08:57,840 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 2: of like I'm just going to go do it the 174 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 2: way I think is right. And if it's not the 175 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 2: right way, and you say, hey, you got to go. 176 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 2: You got to be willing to take risks is basically 177 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 2: where I'm getting to because if you don't take risks, 178 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 2: you're not going to advance your career. 179 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 3: Fantastic advice. We're going to come some advice later, but 180 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 3: that's a great piece of it right there. In addition 181 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 3: to starting and building brands, I've also been involved in 182 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 3: rehabilitating brands. And it always intrigues me how brands lose 183 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 3: their way? Why do you think and how do companies 184 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 3: lose their way on their brand? 185 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 2: Very simply, they lose focus. If you lose focus, if 186 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 2: you try and do too many things, if you get 187 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 2: away from what is core to your business and what 188 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 2: you need to do as an organization, and make a 189 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 2: move that's too quick, that doesn't bring your existing clients 190 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 2: your employees with you, you will start to lose focus. 191 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 2: I was fortunate when I was at Edelman. I had 192 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 2: Starbucks as one of the clients and I was the 193 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 2: global client relationship manager there and Howard Schultz used to 194 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 2: often say to us, if we lose our existing customers 195 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 2: because we're focused on getting new ones, We're going to 196 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 2: spend more time, more money, more effort trying to win 197 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 2: back the customer we just lost than trying to go 198 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 2: get the new ones. And we can't do that. 199 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,599 Speaker 3: So in an organization, how do you ingrain that in 200 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 3: people so that the organization stays focused on focus. 201 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you what I'm going to tell you. 202 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 2: I'm going to tell it to you again, and then 203 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 2: I'm going to tell it to you one more time, 204 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 2: and I'm going to keep telling it to you until 205 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 2: you're sick and tired of hearing it from me. Because 206 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 2: when I get frustrated with it, then finally you're just 207 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 2: starting to listen. Being repetitive and being transparent that is 208 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 2: really key. 209 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 4: You know. 210 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,559 Speaker 3: It's interesting you talk about that on our music radio stations. 211 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 3: I start out as a radio announcer and it's on 212 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 3: the air, and when the people on the air are 213 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 3: sick of a song, I'd have played this song so 214 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 3: much if I got to play it one more time. 215 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 3: Going to shoot myself is about the time the consumer says, 216 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 3: what's that new song you're playing? 217 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 218 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: It is. 219 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 3: So it's interesting. I think in every business how detached 220 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:08,839 Speaker 3: do we get from where the consumer is if we're 221 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 3: not extraordinarily careful about looking at data as opposed to 222 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 3: trusting our gut. 223 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 2: I agree. 224 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 3: You know, when you think about brands, there s need 225 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 3: to be two models. One is, let's call it the 226 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 3: Steve Jobs model of there is a person who is 227 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,839 Speaker 3: the keeper of the brand. There's the other model and 228 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 3: Microsoft where the company sort of institutionally kept the brand. 229 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 3: How do you see it? What do you come down 230 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 3: on that one? 231 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,880 Speaker 2: I think that when you're looking at a big company overall, 232 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 2: it's too much for one person, any one person, to 233 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 2: be the only person who keeps the brand. And I 234 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 2: think that the principles of the brands need to live 235 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 2: in the organization on a day to day basis. And 236 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 2: the way I look at IBM is we've got I 237 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 2: don't know, more than two hundred and seventy five thousand 238 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 2: people around the world. They need to be instilled, they 239 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 2: need to be representing the brand to people around the world. 240 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 2: They need to be understanding what we're trying to do 241 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 2: as a company to help them do that, and if 242 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 2: they're not, then we're failing from the beginning. They're great 243 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 2: leaders at those big companies that you talked about, But 244 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 2: I think I'm a believer that the bigger group will 245 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 2: make it even better. 246 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 3: You're in charge of marketing. Your job is to get 247 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 3: the brand out. How do you train those two hundred 248 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 3: and seventy five thousand employees on the brand? 249 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 2: You know, it goes back to repetitiveness as we talked about. 250 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 2: It goes back to radical simplification in the messaging and 251 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 2: the positioning and what you're trying to do. And it 252 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 2: really is making sure you're enabling people. You're giving them 253 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 2: the tools, making it easy for them to find what 254 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 2: they need to carry that message forward in whatever situation 255 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 2: they need to be in. You have to serve it 256 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 2: to people on a silver platter. You can't make it 257 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 2: an expedition for them them to go find information about 258 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,959 Speaker 2: the brand, about whatever you're trying to do. Otherwise, they 259 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 2: got other things to do in their lives. They're going 260 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 2: to go do other things and then tell whatever story 261 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 2: they want. 262 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 3: Let's apply it to politics. I know you were in 263 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 3: the Clinton administration, and for those of us who were 264 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:18,599 Speaker 3: old enough to be a part of all that, you 265 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 3: would argue a brilliant marketer of what he did. Can 266 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 3: you use some examples from that. 267 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 2: You know, I think for him, he got to very 268 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 2: direct engagement with the voters, and he made it a 269 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 2: very simple message. Remember, it's about the economy, stupid, right, 270 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 2: And that was key and everybody could understand that simple message. 271 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 2: And he was so engaging with people that whether you 272 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,559 Speaker 2: were in the room, if you were in the room 273 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 2: and engaging with them, you felt like you were the 274 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 2: only person there. You could be in a room of 275 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 2: one hundred thousand people and you felt like you were 276 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 2: the only person. You and he were the only two 277 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: people there. But if you were also watching it on 278 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 2: television or seeing of it someplace, I think that carried 279 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 2: through it transcended. President Clinton was an amazing is an 280 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 2: amazing communicator, and I think it's he's one of the 281 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 2: rare talents. You don't see people at that level on 282 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,559 Speaker 2: a regular basis, and I think that's really how he 283 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 2: pushed it. 284 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 3: I want to tie brand a little bit to corporate culture. 285 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 3: How do you think about corporate culture? What is it 286 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 3: and how does it help a company succeed. 287 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 2: Corporate culture is really important because you can get set 288 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 2: on the business and know where you're going from a 289 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 2: here's our objective from a business goal, But how do 290 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 2: you get the culture that's going to be there to 291 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 2: really enable that is a whole other effort. And as 292 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 2: I talk about it with Arvin Krishna, our CEO today, 293 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 2: Arvin's very focused on how do we make sure that 294 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 2: we've got a culture that enables what we want people 295 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 2: to do? And I think a key part of this 296 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 2: whole driving a culture. There's transparency, there's the ability for 297 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 2: people to take risks, there's the ability for people to 298 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 2: move with speed. Those are really important pieces. But there's 299 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 2: also the ability to celebrate the successes that people have 300 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 2: in a corporate culture. And equally, I feel like you've 301 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 2: got to be able to celebrate the failures, right because 302 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 2: if you don't celebrate the failures, nobody's going to be 303 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 2: willing to take a risk. And if you can't take 304 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 2: a risk, you're not going to change a culture. So 305 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 2: how do you continually evolve? And I think that evolution 306 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 2: of a culture is more important today than it was 307 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 2: in the past because business is changing, technology is changing, 308 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 2: the landscape is changing so much. 309 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 3: I think your point about celebrating mistakes failures is hugely important. 310 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 3: How do you do that. 311 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 2: I'll give you an example of me. One of my 312 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 2: first meetings that I had and once I took over 313 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 2: marketing with Arvind and some of my peers. It was 314 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 2: my worst performance in my professional career, hands down. Why 315 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: I was anxious. I didn't have my hands around the 316 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 2: data the way I wanted it to. I didn't feel comfortable. 317 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 2: I just I did not land it. It was so 318 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 2: bad that Arvin stopped me in the middle of the 319 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 2: meeting in front of everybody and said we'll deal with 320 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 2: it later. I called him after the meeting and I 321 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: talked to him and I apologized because I was like, 322 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 2: that's not what you expect from me, and that's not 323 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: why I'm here. And he gave me some good feedback 324 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 2: and was understanding and was clear that we're going to 325 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 2: fix it. It's not fine, but we're going to fix it. 326 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 2: And every Friday I write a note to my entire 327 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 2: team around the world, and that Friday, I wrote a 328 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 2: note in explicit detail explaining to people what happened there. 329 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 2: And many people could not believe that I was being 330 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 2: that vulnerable and that transparent with my team at all 331 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 2: levels of my team, saying this is what I did, 332 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,879 Speaker 2: and oh, by the way, the CEO cut me off 333 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 2: because I was so bad. It showed people A not 334 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 2: everything's perfect, and b we all can make mistakes and 335 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 2: things can happen, and you can adjust, you can learn 336 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 2: from them, and you can take a step forward and 337 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 2: do it. That's a simple example for me. 338 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 3: Did that writing the note give you more cred and 339 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 3: stronger relationships with the org than if you had done 340 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 3: a really good presentation. Never had the opportunity to do 341 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 3: something like that. 342 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 2: I think it helped me with some people, not with everybody, 343 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,719 Speaker 2: And personally writing that note was so cathartic for me 344 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 2: as well. But I think it was important to show 345 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 2: that not everything's going to be perfect, because I say 346 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 2: it all the time, not everything's going to be perfect, 347 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 2: But you have to show that not everything's going to 348 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 2: be perfect. 349 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 3: I worked for a brilliant entrepreneur, Steve Ross, who really 350 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 3: created Time Warner out of have Spather and lost two 351 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 3: funeral homes, and he used to say, you know, Bob, 352 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,360 Speaker 3: you'll never be fired here for making a mistake. You'll 353 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,680 Speaker 3: be fired here for not making a mistake. John making 354 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 3: a mistake tells me I don't try anything new because 355 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 3: nobody gets it right one hundred percent of the times, 356 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 3: and we want you to try new things. More of 357 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 3: math and magic. Right after this quick break, welcome back 358 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 3: to Mathem Magic. Let's hear more from my conversation with 359 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 3: Jonathan Adaschek. Let's go back in time to get context 360 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 3: on you. Milwaukee. I actually was the midday disc jockey 361 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 3: a writ radio there in nineteen seventy two. I did 362 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 3: one semester at Carroll College in Walkshaw. I once ran 363 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 3: a theme park company, six Flags, with a park halfway 364 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 3: between Chicago and Milwaukee. And yet Milwaukee remains a mystery 365 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 3: to me. Can you explain that? I mean, it is 366 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 3: a unique culture. They don't have water fountain, stay of bubblers. 367 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 3: Can you explain it? And tell us about the Milwaukee 368 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 3: that was there when you were growing up. 369 00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 2: So I grew up just north of the city in 370 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 2: the suburb was a town called Whitefish Bay. It was 371 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 2: a great place to raise a family and to be 372 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 2: a kid growing up and playing in the streets. We 373 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 2: used to play kick the can and climb on the 374 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 2: neighbor's roof to hide from other people and all that 375 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 2: kind of fun stuff. And it was an amazing place. Unfortunately. 376 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,919 Speaker 2: It was also a very segregated city, to the point 377 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 2: that my mother was on the school board and in 378 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 2: Whitefish Bay, and there was a big desegregation lawsuit and 379 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 2: it was Section two twenty, I believe it was called. 380 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 2: And part of the settlement was that the suburbs would 381 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 2: bust kids into the city, and the city would bust 382 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,760 Speaker 2: kids into the suburbs. And my mother said, I'm going 383 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 2: to ask the people in the village Whitefish Paid to 384 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 2: do the same thing. I'm going to lead by example, 385 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 2: so you know, I want you to go. My parents 386 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 2: told me, you're going to go, get on the bus 387 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 2: and go into the city. And I loved it. I 388 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 2: loved it. I used to take the bus to elementary 389 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 2: school in downtown. It was across the street from the 390 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 2: Schlitz Brewery. And I remember the day the Schlitz Brewery 391 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,439 Speaker 2: went on strike and never came back. And I remember 392 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,919 Speaker 2: asking the bus driver every day to stop at the 393 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 2: USA Today box I can put a quarter in and 394 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,119 Speaker 2: get the paper. It was just a great city, a 395 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:22,640 Speaker 2: city that is so passionate about Milwaukee, about the brewers, 396 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 2: about the bucks, about the packers, about just the great 397 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 2: heritage there, you know, the saying is it's a great 398 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 2: city on a great lake. 399 00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 3: And it really is an amazing I've not heard that one. 400 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great line, and it's changed a lot 401 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 2: and it's even more fun to go to today. 402 00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 3: I grew up in Mississippi and I drove to Milwaukee 403 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 3: in a car, had never been north of Saint Louis 404 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 3: and I showed up there and man, I hate food 405 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 3: I never seen in my life. I mean meat and 406 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 3: potatoes Mississippi. To the food that was available in Milwaukee, 407 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 3: it was great interest in me. Frozen custard, yeah, god, 408 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 3: it everything. 409 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 2: It's amazing. 410 00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 3: I still go back every year. 411 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 2: My kids go to the same summer camp that I 412 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 2: went to growing up. 413 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:05,360 Speaker 3: You've talked about camp being very important. Clearly it's had 414 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 3: an impact on you. What do you think it really 415 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 3: did for you and what do you think people can 416 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 3: get out of camp with their kids. 417 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 2: Camp is the place that I have my closest friends. 418 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 2: Those are my closest friends. 419 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 3: And how many were from Milwaukee versus other places? 420 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,520 Speaker 2: A lot were from Milwaukee, some from Madison, some from Chicago. 421 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 2: But you also had people who would come from Israel 422 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 2: every year, or there was a guy who lived in 423 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 2: Hawaii or the guy who lived in France. But it's 424 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 2: become even broader now, but those are my closest friends 425 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 2: still to this day. We are all there for each 426 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 2: other at the moments that it matters the most, whether 427 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 2: that's a celebration or a moment of sorrow with the 428 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,959 Speaker 2: loss of a parent or a sibling. We all travel 429 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 2: around the world to see each other. It taught me 430 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 2: about relationships, taught me about a hard day's work. As 431 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 2: I got older and worked there we build and you know, 432 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 2: have these amazing days out in the north woods of Wisconsin, 433 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 2: and I just love it and I love the fact 434 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 2: that my kids go there. 435 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 3: What life lessons did you learn from your parents? 436 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 2: My parents did everything they could to take care of us, 437 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 2: there were five of us, and to give us the 438 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 2: best life they really could. And it wasn't without hardships. 439 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 2: My dad was an entrepreneur and had his ups and 440 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 2: downs in business, and that could cause some difficulties in 441 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 2: the house money wise or just tensions, but we always 442 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,200 Speaker 2: found a way to work through it. And they always said, 443 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 2: you know what, unconditional love is there, and it's something 444 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 2: that I always make sure my kids know that unconditional love, 445 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 2: no matter what happens, is never going to go away. 446 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 2: And when I get on a plane, every time I 447 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 2: leave the house, I always say to my kids, never forget. Well, 448 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 2: I might not be here tonight to say good night 449 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 2: to you. Don't forget I love you more than anything 450 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 2: else in the world. And I really took that from them, 451 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 2: and I really try hard to carry it forward. 452 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 3: That's great to push that to the next generation. And 453 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 3: by the way, there's a through line you hear again 454 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 3: and again and again of successful and confident people. How 455 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 3: did you jump to politics? Was that your goal to 456 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 3: be in politics or was that an accident? 457 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 2: My mom ran for school board and I still remember 458 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:23,200 Speaker 2: hammering the signs into the frozen ground of Wisconsin Whitefish Bay, 459 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,320 Speaker 2: and I remember saying, I was I don't know, nine, 460 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 2: ten years old, and I was like, I want to 461 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 2: go work in the White House one day, and I 462 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 2: want to slog through the snows of Iowa or New 463 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,479 Speaker 2: Hampshire with a presidential candidate. And I just stayed focused 464 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,360 Speaker 2: on it, and so yes, it was my goal, Wow, 465 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 2: to go to Washington, d C. To work in the 466 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 2: White House in the West Wing. 467 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 3: And when'd you go to the Clinton White House? When 468 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 3: was that? What year is. 469 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 2: At ninety seven? I started in the White House? 470 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 3: Well, lucky you. 471 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 2: And then slog through the snows of Iowa with John 472 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 2: Kerrey when he was running for president. It was great. 473 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 2: I was very fortunate. I had two big goals I 474 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 2: wanted to do and I got to do them both. 475 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 2: You know, at a very young age. 476 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 3: Well it's fabulous. Just jump to autos. You were actually 477 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 3: working in Japan and Nissan. How did you wind up there? 478 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 3: I mean, this is a jump and you, I guess, 479 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 3: had been an Edelman before that, right? 480 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 2: I went Edelman, then I went to Microsoft, then I 481 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 2: went to Nissan, and I knew that I wanted to 482 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 2: make a change for Microsoft. I loved Microsoft, but I 483 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 2: knew that I wanted to become the chief communications officer 484 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 2: at a global company and ideally live overseas. And this 485 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 2: sort of came about a lot of people said to me, 486 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 2: what's the difference? How did you make that jump? In reality? 487 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 2: Today a car is not just an engine on four wheels. 488 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 2: It's a computer sitting on top of an engine on 489 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 2: four wheels. Today it's helping to facilitate how you move 490 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 2: your whole interactions that you've got on your phone and 491 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 2: whatever content that whole thing. So it was a much 492 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 2: easier transition. I felt like then a lot of people 493 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 2: thought it would be. I would say a big difference 494 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,680 Speaker 2: is when you look at the margins and the two businesses. Right, 495 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 2: Automotive Nissan's an amazing company. I'm its biggest cheerleader, But 496 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 2: the margins and automotive are much thinner than they are 497 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 2: in technology. And you really watch your dollars, and I 498 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 2: think it makes you get a lot more creative in 499 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 2: how you spend them and where interesting. 500 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, even in a high margin business, cost matter, Cost 501 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 3: matter still goes to the. 502 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 2: Spend a lot of time on that topic. Right now. 503 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 3: I was going to ask you what you learned in 504 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 3: that industry, but it sounds like you learned about cost 505 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 3: and the importance of it. What else? 506 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 2: I also learned a lot about the global perspective. Right So, 507 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 2: at Nissan I had a team of three hundred and 508 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 2: fifty people around the world who were really working on 509 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 2: a range of different issues everywhere, whether it was around manufacturing, 510 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 2: or it was selling vehicles, or it was regulations or 511 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,639 Speaker 2: issues management, any of those things, and it would differ 512 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 2: from wherever you were in the world. I was forced 513 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 2: to learn a lot more about if you take an 514 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 2: action here in this country, how is it going to 515 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 2: carry over to another place? 516 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,640 Speaker 3: As on a side, did you ever learn to speak Japanese. 517 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 2: A little bit? But I could say to you right now, 518 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,360 Speaker 2: futatsubidugon guys chamas. 519 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 3: I have no idea what you said, but it sounds 520 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 3: impressive to beers. Please, Okay, so let's jump to hot topic. 521 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 3: It's something we have to talk about always on Mathemagic AI. 522 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 3: In addition to selling it, you actually use it. You're 523 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 3: right in the middle of it. You've used it to 524 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 3: transform your own infrastructure. Can you talk about the Let's 525 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 3: Create marketing campaign launch in twenty twenty two and how 526 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 3: you pulled AI around that, and then talk about how 527 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 3: you've used AI in the organization. 528 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 2: AI's been really instrumental for us as a company. We've 529 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 2: been at it for a long time from Watson and Jeopardy. 530 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 2: But when Arvin Christian became CEO in April of twenty twenty, 531 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 2: he said, we are going to be the leading hybrid 532 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 2: cloud and AI company. This is well before everybody's talking 533 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,440 Speaker 2: about generative AI. That focus that helped us then take 534 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 2: it to the rest of the activities we were going 535 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 2: to do around marketing, around communications, around the products that 536 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 2: we build. And a fundamental that we've been doing is 537 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 2: we've implemented what we would call client zero, where we're 538 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 2: creating AI products and services, we're using them ourselves as 539 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 2: a company, and then we're going to talk to people 540 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 2: about those. So in the past two years, we've taken 541 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 2: roughly three point five billion dollars out of our run rate, 542 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 2: largely using AI and automation. That then we can go 543 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,400 Speaker 2: have a conversation with somebody and say this is what 544 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,360 Speaker 2: we did. Let me share with you the good, the bad, 545 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 2: the ugly. People will then make it decision if they're 546 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 2: going to work with us or sometimes we're just sharing 547 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 2: that out of best practices. There many times I have 548 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 2: conversations with fellow marketing leaders about how do we simplify 549 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 2: how do we take our event budget? And today we 550 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 2: do half the number of events that we were doing 551 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 2: just over two years ago, but we're getting five percent 552 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: more return on those events because we're much more targeted 553 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 2: using AI. We're creating better content, we're creating better experiences. 554 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 2: I've got a team of roughly three hundred designers, eighty 555 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 2: percent of their average time is spent on derivative assets. 556 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 2: By giving them AI tools, we can take that eighty 557 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 2: percent down. That's not eliminating their job, but that's enabling 558 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 2: them to do more creative But for me, it's just starting. 559 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 2: There's so much more AI that we're building out in 560 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 2: the function for marketing, for communications, for CSR across the board. 561 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 2: That's really going to change the way we're managing our 562 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 2: content andbuting it making sure we're taking people on a 563 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 2: journey that is full of not just personalized content, because 564 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 2: that is where everybody seems to be going in marketing today. 565 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 2: It's got to be relevant content because I couple weeks 566 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 2: ago got a personalized email in my work address around 567 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 2: a hair extension thing, and I didn't care about it. 568 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 2: But if it was relevant, then it's a different level 569 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,440 Speaker 2: of engagements. I think people who are just talking about 570 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 2: personalization only have half the story. 571 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're very much on target. I was 572 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 3: at AOL in the mid nineties when we sort of 573 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 3: brought the Internet to the mass market, and it's interesting 574 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 3: everybody was talking at the time and said, you know, 575 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 3: you're going to have all this free time now because 576 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 3: this is going to do We didn't have any free time. 577 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 3: We did more work. Whatever time we had we filled up. 578 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 3: We was able to double our work, triple our work. 579 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 3: And you're making that point about AI that we're not 580 00:29:58,120 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 3: going to create more time for us to do nothing. 581 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 3: We're going to do more in that same amount of time. 582 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean jobs will change, people will have to 583 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 2: move into different roles. If you think about go back 584 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 2: to telephones, right, for a while, you had to call 585 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 2: the operator, had to patch the call through. Yeah, when 586 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 2: the operators went away, that didn't mean that all those 587 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 2: people lost went out of work, became unemployed. They changed 588 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 2: the roles that they were in. You can see this 589 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 2: happen through the history of our economy in the past, right, 590 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 2: and I think it's going to happen here too. 591 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 3: So let's go back to the Let's Create marketing campaign 592 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 3: which you were talking about focus and I just love 593 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 3: what you did with Let's Create because at the heart 594 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 3: of it, it seems to be about focus, about let's 595 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 3: take all these disparate things and let's build one umbrella 596 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 3: for this company. 597 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 2: We had more than forty three campaigns out there at 598 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 2: any one time, and really trying to get everything under 599 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 2: one umbrella was crucial for us. You know, a lot 600 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 2: of this is driven by data, and our fundamental is 601 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 2: our clients. Data is our clients data. It's never our data. 602 00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 2: They hold the keys for it. So the only way 603 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 2: you can really get to a solution or take advantage 604 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 2: of an opportunity is by doing it together. And that's 605 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 2: why we went with a model of let's create and 606 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 2: it's really been a big focus for us. And it's 607 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 2: not just an advertising tagline, it's what we're trying to 608 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 2: do with our clients in practice as well, and really 609 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 2: part of our work as an organization as a company 610 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 2: is we don't just go in and solve our clients 611 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 2: problems for them, we create solutions. 612 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 3: Five years from now, paint the picture of how AI 613 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,560 Speaker 3: will change American business or worldwide business. 614 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 2: Today we say AI is moving so fast. I think 615 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 2: five years from now we'll probably look back and go 616 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:44,239 Speaker 2: it didn't move as fast as we were thinking at 617 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 2: the time. But I think that what's going to be 618 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 2: key is skilling in five years from now, because the 619 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 2: average shelf life of technology skill to day is just 620 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 2: under three years, so the ability to give people time 621 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 2: in jobs to regulate, keep their skills up to either 622 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 2: use an AI tool or operate in an organization that 623 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 2: has AI deployed. That is going to become more normal. 624 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 2: I'm more normalized. I work in a company that today 625 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 2: does think forty and says you should take forty hours 626 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 2: of learning a year, So we provide opportunities. Not everybody 627 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 2: gets that same opportunity, and I think that's going to 628 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 2: be more regular. I think that the ability if I 629 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 2: focus into where we are in marketing and the client journeys, 630 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 2: I think it's going to be a much more personalized, 631 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 2: relevant journey that is going to have a better understanding 632 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 2: of where they are in a buying cycle, when they're engaged, 633 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 2: when they're not engaged, in how you better tell the 634 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 2: story to them at the various times where they are. 635 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 2: And I think it's going to create more opportunities for 636 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 2: people to focus on the things that they're really passionate 637 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 2: about and bring new ideas to the market. 638 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 3: I want to do a little advice. You've got this 639 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 3: great range of experience someone wants to build a career. 640 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 3: How important do you think range is versus I'm starting 641 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 3: here in the marketing department and I'm going to one 642 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 3: day wind up being the CMO. I mean two different 643 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 3: approaches to winding up in the job you're in. 644 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 2: I think that you have to get to a point 645 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 2: where you have a good level of discomfort in your job. 646 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 2: People get to a job and they get to a 647 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 2: place where they're like, I can do one hundred percent 648 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,800 Speaker 2: of this job with my eyes closed, and I'm always comfortable. 649 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 2: And I think you need to get to a place 650 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 2: where you're like ten percent comfortable and ninety percent is 651 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 2: forcing you to learn new muscles, and I'm always trying 652 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 2: to learn build new muscles. You can do that. You 653 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 2: can say I'm going to start in this marketing job 654 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 2: and I want to be the CMO. But the best 655 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 2: way in my mind to do that is to build 656 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 2: a vast set of professional muscles so that you understand, Hey, 657 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 2: the business is trying to do this, and I understand 658 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 2: why they're trying to do that and the impact it's 659 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,000 Speaker 2: going to have on our bottom line, so that I 660 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 2: can then understand what marketing actions I have to take 661 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 2: to deliver my part against that. So I think that 662 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 2: range is important, and I think it provides people with 663 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,600 Speaker 2: opportunities that they never even thought about before. 664 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 3: Fantastic. So one more piece of advice, if you could 665 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 3: go back in time, what advice would you give your 666 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 3: twenty one year old self. 667 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 2: Don't sweat the small stuff and don't get so excited. 668 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 3: You know what, That's a very common advice people give 669 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 3: through the twenty one year old self. This must be 670 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 3: something about twenty one year olds versus a older folks. 671 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,240 Speaker 2: I used to get a little more excited in my days, 672 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,839 Speaker 2: and I try and just be a little more relaxed 673 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 2: now because I now understand that not everything's going to 674 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 2: be perfect. How do you learn from every interaction you've got? 675 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 3: We end each episode of Math and Magic to allow 676 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 3: us to do a shout out. It's called math and 677 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 3: magic because I think there are the two components of marketing, 678 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,720 Speaker 3: two components of business. Is you've got to know the data, 679 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 3: you got to know the math side of it, but 680 00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:03,839 Speaker 3: you've also got to do something with it. Just because 681 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 3: you know about the person, I mean, you can excite them. 682 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 3: You need some magic there. Who would you give the 683 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 3: shout out to for the math side and the magic side? 684 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 2: I got to say on the math side, the ability 685 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 2: to understand the data and to really look at things. 686 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 2: There's two people who I've come across in my life 687 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 2: who really get it more than any others. One is 688 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,719 Speaker 2: Larry Summers when he was Treasury Secretary. I worked for 689 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 2: Larry and his ability to look at information and put 690 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 2: it together and really comprehend it in a way that 691 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 2: none of us could as as quickly as he could. 692 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 2: For sure, it made an impact. Sometimes it was frustratingly impressive. 693 00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 2: And my current boss, Arvin Krishna, he understands the data 694 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 2: unlike anybody else I deal with, and I sit down 695 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 2: with him and talk about things, and his ability to 696 00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 2: pull a fact from here in a fact from here 697 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 2: and put it together and then do the math around 698 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 2: it is really quite amazing. On the magic side, can 699 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,320 Speaker 2: I give you my magician in general? 700 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 3: Yes? Please? 701 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:09,800 Speaker 2: Oh's the mentalist. 702 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 3: Oh my god. Somebody just said they just saw him, 703 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 3: and then they made me watch a video that had 704 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 3: taken on their cell phone. Jonathan, I am really fascinated 705 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,399 Speaker 3: with the range of your career. It's really unusual and 706 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 3: very impressive if you ever get the chance to do it, 707 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 3: and those that do don't do it quite as well 708 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 3: as you do. And the momentum you've got at IBM 709 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 3: is so impressive. Thanks for sharing your insights and stories today. 710 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 2: Thank you, Bob for having me and really honored to 711 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 2: be here. And I'm a lucky guy throughout my career 712 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 2: and lucky to be here with you today. 713 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 3: Well, you're very nice. Thanks. Here are a few things 714 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 3: I picked up from my conversation with Jonathan. One, do 715 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,400 Speaker 3: your job like you don't need it. This may sound counterintuitive, 716 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,319 Speaker 3: but for Jonathan, his philosophy revolves around taking risk. If 717 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 3: you're playing it safe for getting comfortable, you're not living 718 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,400 Speaker 3: up your full potential. He believes that trusting your instincts, 719 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 3: putting yourself out there, and even failing can be the 720 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 3: pathway to advancing your career. 721 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 2: Two. 722 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 3: Repetition doesn't have to hold you back. Lived experience and 723 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 3: data shows that when you're getting sick of a certain message, 724 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 3: that's about the moment when other people are starting to 725 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 3: hear it. Radical simplification and repetition are what makes a 726 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 3: message truly accessible, whether within a company culture or for consumers. 727 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,319 Speaker 3: It's not about keeping you stuck where you are. It's 728 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,800 Speaker 3: about advancing and broader understanding of your story. Three. B 729 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 3: Client zero at a time when AI is still daunting 730 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 3: for many, IBM is leading the conversation by example. They're 731 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 3: embracing AI at every level, and they're being transparent about 732 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 3: the good and the bad. AI has allowed the company 733 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 3: to grow by leaps and bounds, but perhaps more importantly, 734 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,880 Speaker 3: they've established a trustworthy reputation in a rapidly evolving space. 735 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 3: I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. That's it for today's episode. 736 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,720 Speaker 1: Thanks so much, thanks for listening to Math and Magic, 737 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Podcasts. The show is created and 738 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sidney Rosenbloom for 739 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,240 Speaker 1: booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is no small feat. 740 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,280 Speaker 1: The Math and Magic team is Jessica Crimechich and Baheath Fraser. 741 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Ali Perry and Nikki Etoor. 742 00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:20,879 Speaker 3: Until next time.