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Speaker 1: Welcome to you stuff you should know from house Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Choke Bryant, and there's no

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Speaker 1: there's no one of my alters. No, he's his own dude. Okay,

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Speaker 1: do you have alters? Okay? Do you know? Not that

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Speaker 1: I know. I think we've each seen a bit of

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Speaker 1: an altar in each other. But that's just called that's

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Speaker 1: being jerks every now and in bad mood. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a little different. I was on a forum about a

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Speaker 1: forum for people with the associative identity disorder and like

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Speaker 1: the from what I was reading, you sometimes you feel crowded. Um.

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Speaker 1: Some people have like felt like they have had altars

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Speaker 1: like their whole life, as long as they've been around interesting. Um,

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Speaker 1: sometimes they don't. Like One of the entries I saw

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Speaker 1: was like, does your altar have to have a name?

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Speaker 1: And it was like, I don't necessarily think of them

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Speaker 1: as people, and another person responded and so that that's

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Speaker 1: often like an early stage of the process, and then

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Speaker 1: over time is they become more pronounced, they end up

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Speaker 1: adopting names, or it is uh, super moody or some

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Speaker 1: other bad behavior that you say is disassociative identity disorder,

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Speaker 1: and you give it a name, Well, you don't, your

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Speaker 1: therapist does, yeah, or you might. Yeah. So it's controversial

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Speaker 1: and we'll get to that. But um, I guess we

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Speaker 1: should start off by saying that another name for this

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Speaker 1: a more popular name, even though it's been uh since

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Speaker 1: n D I D. The original name was multiple personality

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Speaker 1: disorder personality. Yeah. When I was reading this at first,

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Speaker 1: I was like, this sounds an awful lot like split personality.

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Speaker 1: It is. It is. They just renamed it and we'll

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Speaker 1: see pretty soon, which is kind of a good move

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Speaker 1: because from what I can tell, it seems to be

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Speaker 1: a real thing that underwent a period of intense exploitation

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Speaker 1: and abuse, so much so that now there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who doubt that it's a real thing, but

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Speaker 1: that there are still people out there who do suffer

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Speaker 1: from it enough so that psychiatry has said, we need

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Speaker 1: to change the name and then just focus on these

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Speaker 1: people that really have this. Now. Did they change it

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Speaker 1: because it had a stigma? Really? That was the only reason. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's this excellent article um on I O nine actually

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Speaker 1: about UM. I think it's called like the myth of

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Speaker 1: dissociative identity disorder and um, the myth of multiple personality disorder.

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Speaker 1: Thank you they went old school, yeah, um, and the

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Speaker 1: lady who wrote it did a really good job of

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Speaker 1: explaining the controversy around it and also like the renewal

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Speaker 1: of it as well, like how it became renewed. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was because it was basically, um exploited and fictionalized

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Speaker 1: by the psychiatric community a few notable people that we'll

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Speaker 1: get to all that though. Yeah, so, I mean everybody

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Speaker 1: has heard of multiple personality disorder thanks to that that

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Speaker 1: period of exploitation from the fifties to the eighties. Um,

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Speaker 1: so you have probably a pretty good idea of the

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Speaker 1: concept behind it of the disorder. To begin with, it's

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Speaker 1: m a single person has their normal, their original um,

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Speaker 1: what's called their host personality, and sometimes, especially under periods

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Speaker 1: of acute psychosocial stress, maybe confronted with stress or something

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Speaker 1: they don't want to think about or talk about or whatever,

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Speaker 1: another one of their personalities will emerge, and they're generally

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Speaker 1: tied to a trauma and early life that you may

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Speaker 1: not even know about until you have therapy that out

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Speaker 1: of your subconscious right. And Um, they believe that for

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Speaker 1: dissociative identity disorder, when it does come about from the

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Speaker 1: result of a trauma, it comes about as a coping

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Speaker 1: mechanism to protect the mind because the the host personality

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Speaker 1: simply can't handle dealing with it. But there is some

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Speaker 1: aspect of that person which is characterized through another personality

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Speaker 1: that can handle it. And so that personality will come

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Speaker 1: out to handle those periods where um, the the person

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Speaker 1: is confronted with those memories. Yeah. And it can express

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Speaker 1: itself in different ways depending on, UM, how severe a

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Speaker 1: disorder is. But generally, if you've ever seen the United

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Speaker 1: States of terra, um you ever seen that? No, I

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Speaker 1: know of it, but I've never seen an episode. Emily

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Speaker 1: was into it. Um, we're talking about completely new people.

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Speaker 1: But your behavior, your speech, you can be a different sex,

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Speaker 1: you can have a different accent, um, different species. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you could be like a dog technically, UM. I think

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Speaker 1: that's a little more rare. I would imagine. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: And there is no timetable that's um, it doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: happen like right after a trauma, can come out years later. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it just there's not an awareness necessarily. Uh, that's

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Speaker 1: a big one. Well, there's not an awareness of the

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Speaker 1: host person doesn't have an awareness of the altars coming out.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they do sometimes, but the altars usually are aware

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Speaker 1: of the other altars and the host. And that was

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Speaker 1: like it was in the United States of Tara. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: sometimes the um the altars, which I don't know if

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Speaker 1: we specifically said or not yet, but an altar is

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Speaker 1: one of these non one of the other personalities within

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Speaker 1: the host personality. Yeah, and there's there's usually at LEAs

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Speaker 1: to others. There has to be to a host at

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Speaker 1: least one other right, UM. But then it can go

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Speaker 1: People have reported up to a hundred or beyond UM

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Speaker 1: and they can happen at the same time too. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That's another thing is they can switch between them um

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Speaker 1: pretty quickly. And these periods where the altars emerge can

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Speaker 1: take place over the course of days or weeks. Basically,

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Speaker 1: if you if you if there's a period where the

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Speaker 1: altars are really kind of coming out and fluidly changing,

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Speaker 1: that's a period of severe stress that that person is undergoing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe calling back that previous drama. Maybe not. It might

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Speaker 1: just be triggered by stress period and you said also

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Speaker 1: that some sometimes a lot of times the altars are

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Speaker 1: aware of each other. There's also been plenty of documented

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Speaker 1: cases where the altars don't like each other. Sometimes they

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Speaker 1: don't like the host um or they don't have much

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Speaker 1: respect for the host uh, or like one of the

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Speaker 1: other altars, they don't like how they deal with the

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Speaker 1: host or deal with life or something like that, which

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Speaker 1: is kind of neat because that that shows that these

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Speaker 1: altars are aware that that the effects or the actions

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Speaker 1: of the other altar or the host affects them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like they are somehow they understand that they're part of

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Speaker 1: the whole. Well, you can be uh, the host person

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Speaker 1: that just the regular Josh is a non drinker and

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Speaker 1: you could have an alcoholic altar. Yeah, thinks the host

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Speaker 1: is a square And like, I can't wait to get

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Speaker 1: my hands on a drink because Josh is like he's

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Speaker 1: he won't go near the stuff. But now that I'm randy,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna buy that twelve pack of maister Brow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and very I don't think I've ever had a sip

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Speaker 1: of maister Brow. I had a very long night with

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Speaker 1: it about fifteen years ago. Okay, so you might have

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Speaker 1: undergone something that's similar to UM, the asociative disorder. We

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Speaker 1: should say also when they renamed associative disorder, they also

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Speaker 1: took all of these components that used to make up

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Speaker 1: multiple personality disorder and split them. So now there's four

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Speaker 1: associated disorders. UM. There is dissociative identity disorder, which is

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Speaker 1: the most extreme, that's the one with altars and different

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Speaker 1: personalities coming out. And then there is UM dissociative amnesia,

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Speaker 1: which is remember in our Amnicia podcasts who have brought

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Speaker 1: this one about UM, where you just kind of forget

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Speaker 1: a certain experience. Yeah, like I had this terrible car crash.

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Speaker 1: I don't even remember it all right, And it was

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Speaker 1: dissociative amnesia. That that's that where it's like you don't

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Speaker 1: remember the terrible thing that happened to you. Um. There's

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Speaker 1: also dissociative fugue, which is where you basically just leave

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Speaker 1: your life. You walk away from your life and maybe

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Speaker 1: you seem like you're kind of out of it or whatever,

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Speaker 1: maybe you're under the influence of a different personality. UM.

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Speaker 1: It's it's not just like I'm not gonna come home

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Speaker 1: any longer. It's like you left your life and are

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Speaker 1: a different person. You're leading in different life in the

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Speaker 1: last days, weeks, months, um, and then chuck. The fourth

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Speaker 1: one is the personalization disorder, which is like you're you're

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Speaker 1: watching your life as if you're viewing a movie. You're detached.

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Speaker 1: And I think that one. I think these can work

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Speaker 1: together because I know that if you have d I D,

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Speaker 1: you definitely have moments of experiencing uh that one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they they like, even if you're just the host, you

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Speaker 1: might feel like you're just watching yourself instead of being yourself.

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Speaker 1: So the dissociative identity disorder diagnosis is almost has like

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Speaker 1: split personalities fluid is switches between the different disorders, and

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Speaker 1: the one thing that they all have in common is

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Speaker 1: that they all appear to be coping mechanisms to protect

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Speaker 1: the mind from a trauma. They're basically saying like I'm

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Speaker 1: check king out of my life or I'm detaching myself

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Speaker 1: from my life, or I'm just not going to remember

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Speaker 1: that part of my life right, or I am I

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Speaker 1: can't handle my life and this other personality can. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it's not it's not always just those things that

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Speaker 1: you know. Some of the side symptoms are can be hallucinations.

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Speaker 1: A lot of times it leads to substance abuse or

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Speaker 1: eating disorders, UM depressioning, anxiety, and mood swings obviously obvi.

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Speaker 1: And uh, memory disturbance is either short or long term, right,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of one of the keys. Probably UM and

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Speaker 1: you apparently a person suffering from dissociative identity sort of

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Speaker 1: just kind of like you said, foggy is a really

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Speaker 1: good descriptor of if not life, then their periods of UM,

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Speaker 1: this condition flaring up, I guess. Yeah, just their sense

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Speaker 1: of place and time is just completely disrupted. It sounds awful. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is awful. Yeah, it is UM. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen the United States of Terror, but apparently

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Speaker 1: it's a lot of comic effect out of Yeah, of course,

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Speaker 1: but if you have dissociative identity disorder, you'd likely have

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Speaker 1: a really hard struggle in life. Yeah, and it shows

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Speaker 1: some of that too. I mean, it's obviously for TV,

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Speaker 1: so there is some comedy with some of the altars,

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Speaker 1: but it also shows the toll that it takes on

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Speaker 1: the family and stuff like that. So, uh, this has

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Speaker 1: been around for a little while. We've understood it its

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Speaker 1: symptoms since at least the late eighteenth century. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: and some early scientists and researchers did a pretty good

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Speaker 1: job considering how long ago it was nailing it. Um. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a pretty like extravagant yeah case. Yeah. People sure, doctors,

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Speaker 1: especially in the eighteen hundreds and seventeen hundreds, were like

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Speaker 1: pretty excited about it, you know. Um, so demonic possession

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Speaker 1: and weird things like that. Back in the day. A

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Speaker 1: lot of many of those cases may have been things

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Speaker 1: like these disorders. Uh, we just didn't know about it

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Speaker 1: back then, so we just said someone was a hysteric

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Speaker 1: or a witch and they killed them, yeah, or lock

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Speaker 1: them up, you know, in some room. Yeah. Um, but

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Speaker 1: the first symptoms of the i D came around in

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Speaker 1: nineteen and sev it's a long time ago. Yeah, a

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Speaker 1: guy named eber Heart Gamelon No, yeah, Gamelon, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think it's g M E L I N. I would

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Speaker 1: go silent GM that melon. Why don't they just spell

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Speaker 1: it right, that's just a guess. Yeah. Well, he was

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Speaker 1: the first one to describe the conditions. He had a

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Speaker 1: patient who was a middle class German woman who had

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Speaker 1: an altar who was a French aristocrat. So he hypnotized her,

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Speaker 1: brought out the French aristocrat, the animal magnetized her or mesmerism. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and we did an episode on hypnosis if you want

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Speaker 1: to go check that out. Yeah, it's a very good one. Um.

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Speaker 1: But up until the late eighteen hundreds, about eighteen eighty,

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Speaker 1: they generally thought that what the deal was was that

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Speaker 1: humans had a background consciousness and that was actually greater

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Speaker 1: than our regular primary consciousness. And when that background consciousness

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Speaker 1: got sick, then that's what brought out the gray. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's what mental illness came from. Pretty much. Basically, it

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Speaker 1: was another way of putting the conscious in the subconscious

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Speaker 1: because I mean, and it still today, people believe the

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Speaker 1: subconscious exists and that it's the one that's really running

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Speaker 1: the show. Realize, that's still the belief that it's greater

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Speaker 1: as far as I know, certainly among Freudians. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's true. I don't I don't think anyone's really discredited

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Speaker 1: the idea of the subconscious, all right, who knows, Well,

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Speaker 1: sure we're gonna find out here. They're about the same

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Speaker 1: time as that was going on, Um, they started to

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Speaker 1: tie it with childhood trauma, which is pretty spot on.

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Speaker 1: And then a French patient named Louis viev Viva Vive.

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Speaker 1: He was twenty two years old and he had this

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Speaker 1: is in the late eight had six personalities. Doctors just

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Speaker 1: went crazy over this guy. Um, they didn't overlap with

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Speaker 1: their memories. They thought that they were just hypnotic variations

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Speaker 1: of each other. They didn't understand though, at the time,

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Speaker 1: that they were actually completely separate personalities. They thought it

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Speaker 1: was just all parts of Louis, which if you, if

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Speaker 1: you really kind of follow the timeline of um, the

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Speaker 1: I d like they were. We've come back to that

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Speaker 1: understanding of it. Yeah, I guess you're right. You know

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Speaker 1: that it's not like just different personalities. It's just different

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Speaker 1: aspects of a single personality that are kind of given

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Speaker 1: voice in a very literal like different voice in a

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Speaker 1: literal way, right, you know. Yeah, that's a good point.

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Speaker 1: And then after that are actually around the same time.

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Speaker 1: Pierre Janette, another French researcher, UM said, no, these are

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Speaker 1: different personalities and it comes from a trauma that they suffered. Right,

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Speaker 1: So he was kind of hit it early on. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he I guess he laid the groundwork for the understanding

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Speaker 1: for the next century or so to come UM and

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Speaker 1: then Uh. It wasn't until nineteen o five that somebody

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Speaker 1: claimed to cure a person with UM dissociative identity disorder

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Speaker 1: again back then known as multiple personality disorder UM, a

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Speaker 1: guy named Morton Prince Morty Prince not Martin, Prince Morton

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Speaker 1: Prince UM. He basically said that using hypnosis he was

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Speaker 1: able to UM coax out the very easily coax out

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Speaker 1: the altars. Because this is something like very early on,

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Speaker 1: dissociative identity disorder and hypnosis were basically just went hand

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Speaker 1: in hand, and UM alienists believed that they could use

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Speaker 1: hypnosis to very easily draw out the altars, which they

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Speaker 1: could who am I talking to now exactly? Or I

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Speaker 1: want to talk to you know this personality and then

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Speaker 1: start confronting those personalities and convincing them to integrate into

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Speaker 1: the host personality. And then once you had full successful integration,

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Speaker 1: you had a reunited whole host person who was just

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Speaker 1: one personality. But the the the key is is that

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Speaker 1: they're using hypnosis, and hypnosis doesn't isn't real, right, So

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Speaker 1: like we have a huge clue here to a mystery

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Speaker 1: of what exactly is going on. But before anybody really

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Speaker 1: kind of faces that and confronts it um and starts

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Speaker 1: to really truly treat associative identity disorder on its face

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Speaker 1: or at its root. It treated it on its face.

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Speaker 1: Psychiatry took a really like it just went all in

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Speaker 1: and doubled down on the most um, the sexiest craziest

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Speaker 1: versions against come up with. And it did this in

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Speaker 1: the fifties. Um, and we'll tell you how right after

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Speaker 1: this message, so Chuck, psychiatry is about to say, multiple

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Speaker 1: multiple personality disorder is um exactly what it looks like.

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Speaker 1: Some of these people are beyond looney. This guy over

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Speaker 1: here as a hundred personalities and seven of them are dogs,

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Speaker 1: different dogs. Can you believe this? And uh, these these

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Speaker 1: cases are going to start to grow by leaps and

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Speaker 1: bounds in number. And it all can be traced back

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Speaker 1: to a single book which is based on single case history. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well a couple of books. Yeah. But to start, it

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Speaker 1: was all about Eve, that's right, the Three Faces of Eve.

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Speaker 1: It was a book written in seven by two psychiatrists,

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Speaker 1: and it was about a woman whose real name was

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Speaker 1: Chris Costner size more, who may or may not be

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Speaker 1: related to Kevin Costner. Neither I nor anybody on the

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Speaker 1: internet appears to know for sure. Oh really I looked

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Speaker 1: and nobody all there are questions. I can't believe I

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Speaker 1: didn't think to look that up. Yeah Costner, Sure, there's

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Speaker 1: like two of them, Kevin and who Chris Okay, Um,

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Speaker 1: so she uh Chris Costner size More went um by

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Speaker 1: the name of Eva White, or at least that's what

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Speaker 1: they called her in the book, although funnily I didn't

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Speaker 1: look up to see whether or not she's related to

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Speaker 1: Tom size More, just Kevin Costner. Yeah, did I say

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Speaker 1: Eva White? I meant Eve White? Yeah, I might said Eve.

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Speaker 1: Either way, it's Eve White. And she was referred because

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Speaker 1: she had headaches amnesia, and she worked with these two

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Speaker 1: psychiatrists and a couple of altars emerged and they wrote

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Speaker 1: a book. Well they supposedly cured her and reintegrated them

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Speaker 1: back into one host person. But they wrote a book

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Speaker 1: really quickly that exploded on the scene, super popular, made

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Speaker 1: them a ton of money. Uh, there was a big

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Speaker 1: blockbuster movie. Um, it was just it took over, well

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Speaker 1: not took over, but it made a huge splash in

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Speaker 1: just people's consciousness about what this is like for the

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Speaker 1: first time. It was everyone you know, like you said,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of super sexy and interesting and people were

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Speaker 1: captivated by this new disease. And this Eve woman who

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Speaker 1: was really three women and one right there was Eve

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Speaker 1: Peggy and I can't remember the other one, but um

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Speaker 1: one was like a good girl, uh, the other one

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Speaker 1: was like a bad girl or a tough girl. And

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Speaker 1: then the host was just kind of a combination of

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Speaker 1: the two. Yeah, and she's still alive, she still is well.

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Speaker 1: She um so that this doctor, um was it thig Pen. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: doctor Thigpen. Um, it was treating her Corbett Thigpen and

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Speaker 1: a colleague. I believe his name is Henny Cleckly. Seriously,

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Speaker 1: so um Thigpen was the one who wrote, like really

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Speaker 1: went off the deep end with the book and then

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Speaker 1: sold the ladies life rights without her approval to Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: and they made this story or this movie and like

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Speaker 1: you said, it was Fox, Yeah it was, and it was.

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Speaker 1: It made a pretty big splash, both the book and

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Speaker 1: the movie. Um. And she came out and wrote a

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Speaker 1: book called I'm Eve and said, Dude, this guy is

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Speaker 1: a total fraud, Like, yes, I do have multiple personalities,

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Speaker 1: but they didn't cure me. Like this guy kept insisting

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Speaker 1: I was cured. It didn't work. He uh, he shot

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Speaker 1: me up with sodium pentethal and like just used the

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Speaker 1: power of suggestion. Um. And he's just a huckster, basically

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Speaker 1: he was after the story. UM. But here I am

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Speaker 1: left with my conditions still. Yeah. And she had reportedly suffered,

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Speaker 1: UM witnessed a bad accident and witness to deaths as

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Speaker 1: a child, and that's where hers was born. So UM

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Speaker 1: that set the stage that for popular consciousness to UM

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Speaker 1: kind of come to understand multiple personality disorder, which again

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Speaker 1: that's what it was called at the time. UM. And

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Speaker 1: I mean it was all over the place, like people

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Speaker 1: just people were just aware of it, whereas they hadn't

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Speaker 1: been before. UM. And it was kind of like a

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Speaker 1: one two punch. You had all about Eve and the fifties,

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Speaker 1: and then about fifteen years later you had Sybil. And

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Speaker 1: Sybil was the one that blew this thing wide open.

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Speaker 1: It just happened, I guess, to arrive at a time

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Speaker 1: when UM America was really ready to UM undergo or

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Speaker 1: be party to psychological exploitation like big time. Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: in three is when Sybil the book came out, UM

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Speaker 1: written by Oh uh, let's see Flora Rita Schreiber about

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Speaker 1: her treatment with psychiatrist Cornelia Wilbur and about the treatment

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Speaker 1: of the real name was Shirley Mason, and they kept

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Speaker 1: that a secret for many years, Sybil, Yeah, to protect

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Speaker 1: her her identity. Um, but eventually the name came out. Well,

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Speaker 1: she died in the nineties. Yeah, she died ninety breast cancer.

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Speaker 1: But um, she had sixteen personalities. And like I said,

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Speaker 1: Sally Field played her in the movie. It was a

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Speaker 1: big hit. I remember my mom reading the book. It

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Speaker 1: was all the rage in the seventies. Yeah, it was huge, huge,

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Speaker 1: And um, she was actually an artist, a painter, and

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Speaker 1: like taught painting too, I think. But they found a

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Speaker 1: hundred and three paintings in her basement after she died,

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Speaker 1: and she only signed the ones that she felt like

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Speaker 1: she the host had painted, Like, she wouldn't sign the

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Speaker 1: ones that an altar had paint it. So many of

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Speaker 1: them are unsigned. But it's when you look at it,

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Speaker 1: it's really like they're all different, Like some are like realists,

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Speaker 1: some are abstract, some are impressionistic. Really all over the map,

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Speaker 1: and it's just I don't know, kind of a testament

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Speaker 1: to like how real this can be? Is there a

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Speaker 1: website that hosts all of them? Uh? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think if you look just look up, you know,

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Speaker 1: hidden paintings of Sybil, you can probably buy them. And

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Speaker 1: that would be what s I B y L is?

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Speaker 1: How they spelled that? No s y B I L Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Um so Sybils the smash hit. It's based on the wave,

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Speaker 1: the first wave that was brought about by all about

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Speaker 1: Eve and the public is um just fully aware of

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Speaker 1: multiple personality disorders like these two are like the cream

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Speaker 1: of the crop. There were tons of made for TV

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Speaker 1: movies and um Donna Hue episodes and all sorts of

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Speaker 1: just chatter about multiple personality disorder, and all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: the cases go from about two hundred in the medical

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Speaker 1: literature to suddenly eight thousand after the movie Sybyl comes out,

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Speaker 1: and it seems like every psychiatrist has a patient with

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Speaker 1: multiple personality disorder. And because of all this sensationalism that

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Speaker 1: went along with it, there are fortunately a caudra of

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Speaker 1: serious psychiatrists and psychologists who said, wait a minute, what,

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Speaker 1: like what what what's going on here? Like movies aren't

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Speaker 1: supposed to trigger outbreaks of disorders. Some people explain it

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Speaker 1: away by saying, well, there, these people may have been

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Speaker 1: suffering like this. They didn't have a name to associate

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Speaker 1: with her. The movie gave him the name so they

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00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: could go to the doctor and speak to it and

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Speaker 1: be treated. Right. Um, that is one explanation. The problem

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Speaker 1: is the explanation that this was a real phenomenon and

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Speaker 1: not like some sort of um, what are they call,

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00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: I guess outbreak of maths hysteria a little bit? Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: And this is a no way to diminish anybody who's

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Speaker 1: suffering mentally in any way. Yeah, yeah, of course. But

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about the specific moment in history in the

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Speaker 1: seventies in the West where there was an outbreak of

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Speaker 1: multiple personality disorder cases. Um. The idea that it was

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00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 1: a real thing was definitely undermined by the civil case itself, which,

401
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 1: like contemporaneously some psychiatrists said, this isn't a peer reviewed

402
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,679
Speaker 1: case history, and we think this is basically all just

403
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: made up. Well, the lid was blown off, specifically by

404
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 1: a single doctor in Sybil's case, Dr Herbert Spiegel apparently

405
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: treated um Sybil, well, it's not a real name, but

406
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Speaker 1: we'll call her Sibil. While the Uh Wilbur was out

407
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Speaker 1: of town and he was like, you know what, this

408
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 1: doesn't add up? He said, these case notes. Yeah, he said,

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Speaker 1: it seems like she's really highly suggestible. Uh. It seems

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Speaker 1: like you gave her dyan pentethal and she's addicted to that,

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Speaker 1: and it seems like you might have not necessarily on

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00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 1: purpose coached her into saying these things. Well, there's there

413
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 1: was um at least one instance where that fill in

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Speaker 1: doctor who was treating um uh Sybil. Sybil said that

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00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 1: they were in a session and Sybil said, um, which

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Speaker 1: which personality you want me to be? Uh? Which it's

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00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: not something you say when you can't control your altars uh.

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Speaker 1: And then secondly there was in the case notes there

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Speaker 1: was a reference to a note or a statement by

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00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: Sybil to her doctor Dr Wilbur who said, I do

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Speaker 1: not even have a double. I am all of them.

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00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: I've been lying in my pretense of them. And Dr

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00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: Wilbur noted that she wrote this up to avoidance behavior,

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Speaker 1: that Sybil was trying to avoid having to confront reintegrating

425
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: her her personalities, and that's why she was saying that

426
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: she was lying um. So, when all of this kind

427
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: of came out and was added up and combined with

428
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: this outbreak of um multiple personality disorder cases in the

429
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: late seventies early eighties, it was it was pretty damning.

430
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: But then when it became obvious that satanic ritual abuse,

431
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: that moral panic that happened was following right on the

432
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: heels of this, I think the scientific community stepped back

433
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 1: and said, Okay, America's is crazy, well and not in

434
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:40,360
Speaker 1: the mental health problem kind of way, like just just crazy. Yeah.

435
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: I think I think a lot of that came about

436
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 1: because the it started to become a legal defense, uh,

437
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 1: and people started explaining way very bad behaviors on altars

438
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: and claiming in court like it wasn't me that killed

439
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: my wife, it was Tony. Man. It sounds like we're

440
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: talking about the Lifetime Movie Network here, you know, dud,

441
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: This Lifetime Movie Network is all over these stories. I

442
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 1: bet you there's quite a few of those movies out there. Right.

443
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 1: So all this is going on, it becomes very apparent

444
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: that this isn't a real thing. Um And fortunately for

445
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 1: the people who actually do suffer from this disorder, psychiatry said,

446
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: all right, let's get rid of the multiple personality disorder moniker,

447
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: and we're gonna rename it dissociative identity disorder. We're gonna

448
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 1: completely remove it from what just happened because that was pitiful,

449
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: and um, we're gonna get down to basics. We're gonna

450
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: go back to the way of addressing this, of viewing

451
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: this that um, the doctor who described Louis Vivey came

452
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: up with all the way back in that it's just

453
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:56,959
Speaker 1: variations of the host personality, not truly separate personalities, and

454
00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: that if we treat the underlying cause or even just

455
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: the co morbid symptoms drug addiction, alcoholism, depression, the hallucinations,

456
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: the mood swings, anxiety, if we treat all this, most

457
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: likely the depression identity disorders also going to be treated

458
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: in kind. Yeah. I think another thing that lended itself

459
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: to that too, where doctor started being sued in the

460
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,840
Speaker 1: nineties by people saying, wait a minute, you've got me

461
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: on these drugs, you're hypnotizing me. You're saying, you're calling

462
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: coercing me into calling out these altars, and so I'm

463
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: gonna sue you. Yeah, I'm glad you said that, because

464
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: it is worth revisiting I don't think we've really laid

465
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 1: this at the feet of psychiatrists enough. There were people

466
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: who saw this movie who were feeling this way, who

467
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: maybe felt like they they had more than one personality

468
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: and went to and I think everyone feels that way

469
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: a little bit sometimes, you know. But if you're a

470
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: highly suggestible person and you see this movie and you

471
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: start thinking like, wow, maybe that's what I have, and

472
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: they inject you with Sodian pentethal right, you go to

473
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: a medical professional, that medical professional isn't supposed to be like, yeah, yeah,

474
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: you have that. And and this one's named Tim. Tim

475
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: is very aggressive personality. I can see Tim coming out now.

476
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, the person's like Tim, Like, yes,

477
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: that person's life has been altered, probably for the negative,

478
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: because of a um, at the very least, a dubious

479
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: medical expert um. And yes, so of course they were sued,

480
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: and they should have been sued. It was a really

481
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: dark spot in the history of psychiatry, which has a

482
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: lot of dark spots on its history. Frankly, you know

483
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: this was this was one of them. But like I said, again, um,

484
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: there were a group of psychiatrists who said, no, this

485
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: is there's something real here. We've just been looking at

486
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: it the wrong way. We allowed it to become sensationalized.

487
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 1: We need to learn that lesson. But at the same time,

488
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: we need to identify the people who really are suffering

489
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: from this and figure out how to help them. Uh,

490
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: and we'll figure out we'll talk about how they They

491
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: figured it out right after this. Okay, Chuck, So now

492
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: we're at they've renamed multiple personality disorder and now it's

493
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: UM dissociative identity disorder. So let's talk about how it's treated,

494
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: how it manifests, what it is. So the I guess

495
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: the modern understanding from what I can tell, seems to

496
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: be that UM dissociative identity disorder is a person who

497
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: has well, let's talk about personality. What identity is? Okay,

498
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: what if your identity is basically the a script that

499
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: you've been equipped with that's been developed and refined, a nuance,

500
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 1: but also very much fertilized and solidified over the years,

501
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: so that when you are faced with any any anything

502
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: in life, you're going to react in a prescribe predictable way.

503
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 1: That's your identity. Now, what if your identity is such

504
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: that UM it doesn't handle stress very well, but you're

505
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: still confronted with stress. But that doesn't but handling stress

506
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 1: isn't part of that script that makes up your identity. Well,

507
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: in the case of a very very extreme case, it's

508
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: possible that a person will subsume their normal personality and

509
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: draw out some aspect that isn't predictable, that isn't prescribed,

510
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: but it's still part of themselves and put that front

511
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: and center. Deal with that stress, and it might cuss

512
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: out the person like a psychiatrist who's confronting them with

513
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: the stress, and may be very protective of that personality.

514
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: But the point is it's still part of that single person.

515
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: It's just a different aspect showing when you take it

516
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: to its extreme conclusion, what you're looking at then are

517
00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: two different personalities, split personalities, or multiple personalities, right, That's

518
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: apparently what dissociative identity disorder is. So are you saying

519
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 1: you don't believe that when someone comes out in a

520
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 1: British accent and says my name is Rob, Like, that's

521
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: not real. I don't think the word real is a

522
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: good word because I think that that person it's real,

523
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,479
Speaker 1: and that's reality right there. You know. I mean, like,

524
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: if if a person is experiencing a different personality and

525
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: it happens to be a British guy named Rob, that's

526
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: the reality, right then. I don't think these people who

527
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: have dissociative identity disorder are faking. I don't think it's

528
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: made up. I don't think they're necessarily playing along. I

529
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: think that's what happened in the eighties. Everybody was just

530
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: kind of playing along. But I think if you actually

531
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: have dissociative identity disorder, like this is your experience, this

532
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: is reality to you, like you do feel detached from

533
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: your life, you do have missing time, like you do

534
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 1: experience this, So yes, it's real for you. It's more

535
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: how the psychiatric community or the mental health community has

536
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: to view the associative identity disorder in order to treat it.

537
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: That it isn't that they aren't separate personalities, because you

538
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: can basically, um, that's tantamount to saying you're possessed by

539
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: a demon that's a whole other person in there with you,

540
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: and that's just not the case. And if you view

541
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: it like that, you're not going to be able to

542
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: treat it. Did you find anyone famous with it. No,

543
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: did you herschell Walker? No? Really, yeah, you knew about that, right. Uh. No,

544
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: famous former Georgia Bulldog running back an NFL star, herschel Walker.

545
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: He suffers from d I D and he wrote a

546
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 1: book called Breaking Free. And he has no memory of

547
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 1: winning the Heisman Trophy. Oh no, he has no memory

548
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: of putting a gun to his wife's head something that's

549
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: happened in his life. Uh, no memory of any of

550
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: these things. And he says he has as many as

551
00:34:55,239 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: twelve altars. And um, his his wife. I don't know

552
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: if they're still together. I don't think so. But his

553
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,919
Speaker 1: wife in many years thinks like it all makes sense now.

554
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: Like when she finally he came out with this and

555
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: he just came out with a few years ago, she

556
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 1: was like, well, this totally makes sense because I saw

557
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,399
Speaker 1: very different people through the course of our marriage out

558
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 1: of nowhere that made no sense. And she's like, it

559
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: was not a mood swing. And um he Uh. He's

560
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: famous for not just being a football player, Like he

561
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: was into ballet. He went to FBI school, He was

562
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: an Olympic bobs letter. What he's he's done all these

563
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: things he was He's a mixed martial artist now and

564
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: he thinks that these altars are you know, basically why

565
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 1: he has so many like varying interest in life. Yeah,

566
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: that is really fascinating. So what do you think about it?

567
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: What's your take on to socio by Danny disorder? Well,

568
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: I'm not sure i'd see the difference between Like that's

569
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: what a sort of told disorder is, is someone believing

570
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: something about themselves. Like I guess I don't see the

571
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 1: difference between someone thinking they have these different personalities. Like

572
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 1: a personality isn't a tangible thing anyway, Like you can't

573
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 1: touch it. So if someone believes they have four different personalities,

574
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 1: then they may as well have four different personalities. Like

575
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: I get you what you're saying. I guess it's all

576
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: part of that person. But if it's a disorder, that

577
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 1: means it's causing a problem. I think the fact that

578
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: when I see cases of what looks like real d

579
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: I d like herschel Walker no memory of of certain things,

580
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 1: like it's it's certainly more powerful than you know. That's

581
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,879
Speaker 1: bad Chuck coming out because I don't deal what stressed. Well,

582
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: we'll call him tony, you know, but if I blacked

583
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,319
Speaker 1: out and didn't remember my actions for several days, and

584
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 1: those actions included putting a gun to my wife's said,

585
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 1: then that's a whole different thing, you know, because I'm

586
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: certainly moody. We all know bad Chuck, well know Tony,

587
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 1: Tony nice? All right, Well, I guess that's it about

588
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: dissociative identity disorder. If you want to learn more about it,

589
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: type those words in the search part how stuffworks dot

590
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 1: com and they'll bring up this article. And since I

591
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: said search parts, time for listener mail. Uh, I'm gonna

592
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: call this real world advice for Tony. This is guy's

593
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 1: name is Tony? Oh yeah, total accident. Hey, guys, I

594
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: recently returned from to the States from living in the

595
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: Republic of Korea, mostly teaching English there for the last

596
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: four years. Returned home to get a job different from that.

597
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 1: And now that I'm at home, I can't figure out

598
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: what to do to give you context. I've been actively

599
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: interviewing with all sorts of companies, organizations, and firms positions

600
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: and marketing, sales, business development, finance, consulting. Anyway, I find

601
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: most of those roles to be too boring. I also

602
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: feel pressured in burden because I studied engineering at Columbia

603
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: University and feel a burden to be successful quote unquote,

604
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: I am very much stuck in a rut looking for

605
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: a job, uh, not excited by my prospects and asking

606
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: what do I want to do. I don't really want

607
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 1: to go back to school because I can't afford to

608
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: pay for a master's degree, especially if I'm not certain

609
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: or pretty certain that that advanced degree will improve my situation.

610
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 1: So I'm emailing you guys because I'm an advocer and

611
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: I think we share similar perspectives on things, and you

612
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: have great careers that are thrilling and aspirable. True. So

613
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 1: I'm not quite saying I want to be you guys

614
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: or I want your jobs, but I see both these

615
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: people that are really interesting, salt of the earth folk

616
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 1: who can relate to my situation more so than my

617
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: investment management, consulting, law, youring med school friends. So Tony H.

618
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,839
Speaker 1: De Frieda's wants to know what he should do. Man,

619
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: that's a tough one. I've actually been thinking about this

620
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: TuS email for a couple of days now. Yeah, Okay,

621
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: I mean like he's asking for help, so give it

622
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: to him. Well, my first bit of advice would be

623
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: to narrow down your scope a little bit. If you

624
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 1: studied engineering and you're looking at marketing, sales, business development, finance, consulting,

625
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: I think you're casting your net a little too wide. Yeah,

626
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,439
Speaker 1: So my first bit of advice is to narrow that down,

627
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: and my second bit of advice is to narrow it

628
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: down based on often tell people like what do you what,

629
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: what do you love, and what would you love to do?

630
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: Ideally what they call blue sky territory here in the

631
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: corporate world. It sounds like also to me, you're asking

632
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,799
Speaker 1: a lot of people, but you're spending a lot of

633
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:47,240
Speaker 1: time like just keeping it at the forty foot level.

634
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: Like maybe you sit for a little while with a

635
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: legal pen a pen and like be quiet and gather

636
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: your thoughts and then brainstorm after that, just even for

637
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: like a half hour twenty minutes something like that. If

638
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: it's for your future that you're thinking about, you could

639
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: probably come up with a half hour to dedicate just

640
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: to that. But just turn everything off and like really

641
00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 1: focus inward and say what do you want to do,

642
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: and then go for that and don't feel obligated to

643
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: use your degree. Most people can go to college, don't

644
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,799
Speaker 1: use the degree that they got. It's more like they

645
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: went through college to show they can go through college,

646
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, and he didn't lift engineer anywhere and

647
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: what he was looking into, even though that's what his

648
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 1: degrees in. Yeah. Here's the other thing too, there are

649
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: very few um career choices or life paths that go

650
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: that go absolutely nowhere. And you shouldn't be afraid to

651
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: take steps that you that aren't necessarily the prescribed way

652
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: to go. Yeah, and don't be worried about locking yourself

653
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: in for life necessarily, you know, like, try something out

654
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: that you love and it may bear fruit, and if

655
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 1: it doesn't work, you can always just go get like

656
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: a guaranteed job or something afterward. Yeah. Yeah, And something

657
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: that interests you now isn't necessarily going to interest you

658
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,240
Speaker 1: five years from now. So yeah, I think you're worrying

659
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 1: too much, Tony, or Tony if this was a very

660
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: sly way of trying to get the word out with

661
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: your resume and you're out there and you want to

662
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: Columbia University grad engineering degree, who's interested in sales and

663
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,240
Speaker 1: business development and finance? Let us know, interested in anything

664
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: see captain ing whatever, Uh, so spend some time be

665
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 1: quiet with your thoughts, trying decide what you love and

666
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 1: if you could make a career out of that. And uh,

667
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: if we hear anything, then we'll let you know. It

668
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: sounds like you're up for adventure because you lived in Korea.

669
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,839
Speaker 1: We have him for garden seed. Yeah, we gave him

670
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: a lot of advice here. Yeah, this is plenty. Take

671
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: some of that and do something with it, Tony. Let

672
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: us know how it goes. Please. Uh. If you have

673
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:59,040
Speaker 1: made any kind of life choice or decision based on

674
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: something Chuck and I and said, we want to know

675
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 1: how that went. You can tweet to us at s

676
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 1: Y s K podcast. You can join us on Facebook

677
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: dot com, slash Stuff you Should Know, send us an

678
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: email the Stuff Podcast at Discovery dot com, check out

679
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: our Josh and Chuck YouTube channel, and hang out with

680
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: us at our home on the web. Stuff you Should

681
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: Know dot com for more on this and thousands of

682
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: other topics. Is it how Stuff Works dot com