1 00:00:01,490 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,220 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, 3 00:00:14,060 --> 00:00:16,820 Speaker 2: and Jerry's here, too. And this is Stuff You Should Know, 4 00:00:19,300 --> 00:00:22,490 Speaker 2: another black spot on American history, the edition. 5 00:00:22,989 --> 00:00:23,610 Speaker 1: That's right. 6 00:00:24,250 --> 00:00:27,550 Speaker 3: It's not like we're on a mission to make ourselves 7 00:00:27,590 --> 00:00:31,690 Speaker 3: look bad as Americans. But these are often stories that 8 00:00:31,910 --> 00:00:34,980 Speaker 3: are not only overlooked, but in some cases like this one, 9 00:00:35,820 --> 00:00:40,060 Speaker 3: kind of like buried for decades and decades. So nobody 10 00:00:40,300 --> 00:00:43,180 Speaker 3: knows the truth of the matter, which in this case 11 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 3: is that in the late 1800s in Wilmington, North Carolina, 12 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:54,610 Speaker 3: a large mob of white supremacists, a very organized group, 13 00:00:54,690 --> 00:00:59,390 Speaker 3: got together and staged a coup. Uh, because they were 14 00:00:59,410 --> 00:01:03,390 Speaker 3: not happy that, uh, black people in their town had become. 15 00:01:03,410 --> 00:01:05,730 Speaker 1: Uh, franchised. Is that a word? 16 00:01:06,430 --> 00:01:08,130 Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Infranchised, maybe. 17 00:01:08,390 --> 00:01:10,110 Speaker 1: Infranchised. Yeah, that'd be it. 18 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 3: And, you know, we're starting to hold office and have 19 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,700 Speaker 3: a say and we're winning elections and stuff like that. 20 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,140 Speaker 3: And they were like, this will not stand. So we're 21 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,020 Speaker 3: going to stage a coup and kill a bunch of people. 22 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. And that is definitely worth dragging up and, and, um, 23 00:01:27,020 --> 00:01:29,220 Speaker 2: Showing off to everybody because that isn't the kind of 24 00:01:29,260 --> 00:01:33,569 Speaker 2: thing that should be swept under the rug like it was. 25 00:01:34,050 --> 00:01:37,050 Speaker 2: And what sucks also is this just bears such an 26 00:01:37,870 --> 00:01:43,890 Speaker 2: uncanny resemblance to the Tulsa massacre. And one of the things, 27 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 2: do you remember that episode too? Oh, yeah. 28 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 3: Yeah. 29 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 2: Both of these, any story like this is just so 30 00:01:49,420 --> 00:01:52,580 Speaker 2: stomach turning, you know, that people do this to other people. 31 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 2: And I think one of the other reasons why it's 32 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,060 Speaker 2: worth talking about is this still goes on in the world. 33 00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:00,660 Speaker 2: Dominant groups still slaughter other groups for whatever reason. And 34 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: it just so happened that in the 1890s in Wilmington, 35 00:02:04,140 --> 00:02:09,060 Speaker 2: North Carolina, it was white supremacists slaughtering black residents who 36 00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:12,630 Speaker 2: had been democratically elected or just happened to be in 37 00:02:12,650 --> 00:02:14,690 Speaker 2: the wrong place at the wrong time when the armed 38 00:02:14,870 --> 00:02:17,850 Speaker 2: white mob went through town. to stage what you said, 39 00:02:17,870 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 2: a coup. It's considered probably the only successful coup in 40 00:02:23,940 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 2: American history. And I don't even think you have to 41 00:02:26,260 --> 00:02:30,260 Speaker 2: qualify it with probably. It's the only successful coup in history. Yeah. 42 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:33,900 Speaker 3: There are also parts of this that, you know, we've 43 00:02:33,940 --> 00:02:36,820 Speaker 3: seen play out over like the past six and eight years. 44 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,510 Speaker 3: It was scary a few times where I was like, oh, 45 00:02:40,150 --> 00:02:42,290 Speaker 3: this march happened with like torches. And I was like, 46 00:02:42,490 --> 00:02:45,730 Speaker 3: that sounds just like what happened in Virginia not too 47 00:02:45,770 --> 00:02:46,190 Speaker 3: long ago. 48 00:02:46,210 --> 00:02:47,930 Speaker 1: So, Weird parallels. 49 00:02:48,470 --> 00:02:50,270 Speaker 3: So we're going to tell this story today and I 50 00:02:50,310 --> 00:02:55,139 Speaker 3: guess start with going back in time to the passage 51 00:02:55,180 --> 00:02:58,970 Speaker 3: of the 15th Amendment when this is, you know, decades 52 00:02:59,010 --> 00:03:02,670 Speaker 3: after the Civil War, when the Democratic Party, Democrats of 53 00:03:02,710 --> 00:03:08,970 Speaker 3: the time. use laws and violence to suppress power in 54 00:03:09,010 --> 00:03:13,490 Speaker 3: the South. And it was a pretty successful campaign, basically, 55 00:03:13,530 --> 00:03:18,270 Speaker 3: like a post-Reconstruction campaign to squelch Black political power. 56 00:03:19,630 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. And in another turn that is very similar to now, 57 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 2: this was not disenfranchising Black voters, killing Black citizens. This 58 00:03:30,820 --> 00:03:37,940 Speaker 2: was not mainstream popular like uh opinion i guess yeah 59 00:03:38,620 --> 00:03:43,270 Speaker 2: or or desire necessarily um it was essentially the wealthy 60 00:03:43,710 --> 00:03:48,810 Speaker 2: white elites in wilmington and north carolina uh who were 61 00:03:48,870 --> 00:03:51,870 Speaker 2: upset about this and who were funding the democratic party 62 00:03:52,070 --> 00:03:53,850 Speaker 2: and this is when we're talking about the republicans is 63 00:03:53,930 --> 00:04:00,550 Speaker 2: the lincoln republicans who had um supported ending slavery. So 64 00:04:00,690 --> 00:04:03,619 Speaker 2: it's a little confusing right now. But sadly, it's not 65 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,860 Speaker 2: that confusing because there's no decent party right now. But 66 00:04:07,340 --> 00:04:13,090 Speaker 2: that's neither here nor there. Instead, the wealthy white elite 67 00:04:13,210 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: of the area were basically supporting the Democratic Party And 68 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,650 Speaker 2: trying to get this all changed. It wasn't like your 69 00:04:21,790 --> 00:04:24,810 Speaker 2: average person necessarily was like, yeah, I want to make 70 00:04:24,850 --> 00:04:26,869 Speaker 2: sure all the black people get run out of town 71 00:04:26,890 --> 00:04:29,190 Speaker 2: where they were born and raised and were my neighbors 72 00:04:29,250 --> 00:04:30,049 Speaker 2: for 30 years. 73 00:04:30,190 --> 00:04:33,070 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So this is the 1890s. 74 00:04:33,070 --> 00:04:35,369 Speaker 3: There was something called the Populist Party, and they came 75 00:04:35,529 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 3: out to support like, you know, farmers, laborers, stuff like that, like, 76 00:04:41,260 --> 00:04:45,229 Speaker 3: you know. against the wealthy elites at the time. And 77 00:04:45,270 --> 00:04:47,610 Speaker 3: this is not just in North Carolina. This is sort 78 00:04:47,650 --> 00:04:51,650 Speaker 3: of in other places in the South. The populist got 79 00:04:51,690 --> 00:04:55,870 Speaker 3: together with the Republicans of the time, which was the 80 00:04:55,910 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 3: main party of like black Southern voters. And they formed 81 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 3: a new movement called the fusionist movement. 82 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. Which is a pretty smart thing to do, right? 83 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 2: So they, they, basically got together and they said, we're 84 00:05:09,660 --> 00:05:12,260 Speaker 2: going to form a coalition and we're going to say, 85 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,779 Speaker 2: you guys run for this race, Republicans run for this race, 86 00:05:16,260 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 2: populists run for this race, and we're not going to 87 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,620 Speaker 2: run against each other so that we won't split the 88 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:27,409 Speaker 2: anti-Democrat ticket. Instead, you know, we'll both adopt the same 89 00:05:27,529 --> 00:05:30,970 Speaker 2: combined platform so that all of the people who are 90 00:05:31,010 --> 00:05:33,210 Speaker 2: populists and all the people who are fusionists or all 91 00:05:33,230 --> 00:05:35,950 Speaker 2: the people who are Republicans are and who all want 92 00:05:35,970 --> 00:05:39,770 Speaker 2: these things enacted, these platform planks, they're going to vote 93 00:05:39,850 --> 00:05:42,770 Speaker 2: for both of us because there you go. It was 94 00:05:42,790 --> 00:05:46,810 Speaker 2: a very smart strategy and it worked really well between 95 00:05:46,810 --> 00:05:49,770 Speaker 2: 1894 and 1896. Yeah, for sure. 96 00:05:50,550 --> 00:05:54,380 Speaker 3: What policies, you ask? Stuff like, you know, let's limit 97 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,460 Speaker 3: interest rates. Let's make it more affordable to own a home. 98 00:05:57,540 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 3: Let's increase education funding. Let's like Let's let's make sure 99 00:06:02,779 --> 00:06:05,140 Speaker 3: like this is a specific thing they did. Let's make 100 00:06:05,180 --> 00:06:07,850 Speaker 3: sure that if you're illiterate, you can still vote. So 101 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,310 Speaker 3: election ballots have to use like designated party colors and designs. 102 00:06:11,870 --> 00:06:13,670 Speaker 3: So you still know who you're voting for, even though 103 00:06:13,710 --> 00:06:16,089 Speaker 3: you may not be able to read the name. So 104 00:06:16,250 --> 00:06:19,330 Speaker 3: it was very successful. The next election came that came 105 00:06:19,370 --> 00:06:22,820 Speaker 3: along after this was 1896. And they had a lot 106 00:06:22,860 --> 00:06:26,750 Speaker 3: of great success. They elected a white Republican named Daniel L. 107 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,580 Speaker 3: Russell as governor. So now this is the governor of 108 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:34,170 Speaker 3: North Carolina. And a lot of black officials, including Representative 109 00:06:34,210 --> 00:06:37,070 Speaker 3: George H. White, who ended up being the only black U.S. 110 00:06:37,110 --> 00:06:40,909 Speaker 3: congressman from 1897 to 1901, was elected. 111 00:06:42,110 --> 00:06:45,710 Speaker 2: Yes. And so what happened, Chuck, that we're about to 112 00:06:45,750 --> 00:06:49,550 Speaker 2: talk about was so– the white coup in North Carolina 113 00:06:49,570 --> 00:06:54,270 Speaker 2: was so successful that after Representative George H. White left 114 00:06:54,390 --> 00:06:59,740 Speaker 2: office in 1901, there wasn't another black congressman elected from– 115 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,930 Speaker 2: North Carolina until 1992. 116 00:07:02,930 --> 00:07:06,270 Speaker 1: I thought that was 1928. 117 00:07:06,270 --> 00:07:11,270 Speaker 2: No, that was somebody from the North. There wasn't one 118 00:07:11,310 --> 00:07:14,410 Speaker 2: from the South elected until after 1965. But in North 119 00:07:14,470 --> 00:07:17,990 Speaker 2: Carolina specifically, they had a drought of black congresspeople from 120 00:07:17,990 --> 00:07:20,490 Speaker 2: 1901 to 1992. And I guess. 121 00:07:20,350 --> 00:07:22,430 Speaker 1: A countrywide drought for 28 years after. 122 00:07:23,210 --> 00:07:23,470 Speaker 3: Yes. 123 00:07:23,650 --> 00:07:24,930 Speaker 1: Which is also crazy. 124 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 2: We haven't done an episode just on reconstruction. We've done some, 125 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: we did one on like the black codes that really 126 00:07:31,660 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 2: kind of covered like Jim Crow stuff. Yeah. But I 127 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 2: feel like we should do one on reconstruction itself. But 128 00:07:38,530 --> 00:07:42,650 Speaker 2: a lot of this is largely the South rebelling against, 129 00:07:43,010 --> 00:07:47,670 Speaker 2: you know, reconstruction policies. And again, the idea that black 130 00:07:47,710 --> 00:07:50,010 Speaker 2: people are starting to vote and, well, wait a minute, 131 00:07:50,050 --> 00:07:52,750 Speaker 2: that means that they're starting to gain power and political power. 132 00:07:53,270 --> 00:07:55,460 Speaker 2: And all of a sudden they are, going to have 133 00:07:55,500 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 2: a say, black people are going to have a say 134 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 2: in their own towns. And this is really going on 135 00:07:59,900 --> 00:08:03,550 Speaker 2: in Wilmington. Like thanks to the fusionist movement, the, the 136 00:08:03,650 --> 00:08:10,210 Speaker 2: town of Wilmington was becoming, uh, like politically and economically powerful, um, 137 00:08:10,490 --> 00:08:14,700 Speaker 2: with blacks and whites living together side by side, working together, 138 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,020 Speaker 2: frequenting each other's stores and things like that. Um, but 139 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 2: we should say this is not, it wasn't like some 140 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,810 Speaker 2: sort of, um, multi-racial utopia. Like it was still it 141 00:08:25,850 --> 00:08:28,970 Speaker 2: still existed in the Jim Crow South. But as far 142 00:08:29,030 --> 00:08:31,180 Speaker 2: as the Jim Crow South goes, it might as well 143 00:08:31,210 --> 00:08:33,900 Speaker 2: have been a multi-racial utopia. Yeah. 144 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 3: And Wilmington was the largest municipality in North Carolina at 145 00:08:37,179 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 3: the time, had about 20,000 people. And like you said, 146 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 3: it was a majority black city, had black doctors and 147 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,460 Speaker 3: business people and attorneys and businesses. There were three black 148 00:08:47,540 --> 00:08:51,250 Speaker 3: owned banks. Some black people were elected to key offices 149 00:08:51,309 --> 00:08:54,410 Speaker 3: in the city. Like the treasurer, the jailer, the coroner, 150 00:08:55,450 --> 00:08:57,690 Speaker 3: even some cops. I think 10 of the 26 cops 151 00:08:57,750 --> 00:09:01,479 Speaker 3: were black. But like you said, it was like it 152 00:09:01,510 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 3: was a big deal. It still didn't align like statistically 153 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:10,319 Speaker 3: with how how majority black Wilmington was. And like black 154 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,500 Speaker 3: cops in Wilmington couldn't arrest white people. And there were obviously, 155 00:09:13,580 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 3: you know, there were some stuff like that going on. 156 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:17,620 Speaker 3: But a lot of progress. 157 00:09:17,220 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: Being made in the in the deep south at the time. 158 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,500 Speaker 2: Right. And so, again, if you're a white supremacist, especially 159 00:09:23,540 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 2: a wealthy white supremacist who's used to having power and 160 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 2: say in the area, you're watching your entire world erode 161 00:09:32,740 --> 00:09:36,829 Speaker 2: as the fusionist coalition just gains more and more power 162 00:09:36,900 --> 00:09:39,670 Speaker 2: and just starts taking things in the direction they think 163 00:09:39,710 --> 00:09:42,910 Speaker 2: they should go. Right. So as this is happening in 164 00:09:42,950 --> 00:09:48,350 Speaker 2: the 1890s in Wilmington, there is a sense of real. 165 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:54,100 Speaker 2: unrest and I think hatred growing among certain populations of whites. Again, 166 00:09:54,460 --> 00:09:59,270 Speaker 2: not entirely the entire population of whites or even necessarily 167 00:09:59,309 --> 00:10:01,239 Speaker 2: a majority of it. I think stuff like this is 168 00:10:01,340 --> 00:10:05,199 Speaker 2: so ugly that you start to think like, well, everybody 169 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 2: was like this. You just lump everybody into this category. 170 00:10:09,140 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 2: And that's just not the truth. It can very often 171 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:18,030 Speaker 2: be a very small proportion of the population that But 172 00:10:18,370 --> 00:10:20,750 Speaker 2: what they do is just so atrocious. It just seems 173 00:10:20,790 --> 00:10:23,010 Speaker 2: like this is so many more people and that everybody 174 00:10:23,070 --> 00:10:25,709 Speaker 2: thinks that way, which is it's kind of like a 175 00:10:26,630 --> 00:10:30,540 Speaker 2: terrible byproduct of it that makes it even more scary 176 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:35,099 Speaker 2: and fearsome and has an even more sweeping effect than 177 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 2: just the event itself. Because if you're a black person 178 00:10:38,140 --> 00:10:40,319 Speaker 2: in Wilmington and you suddenly see all these white people 179 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 2: doing this to you, you are probably going to assume 180 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,250 Speaker 2: from that point on that all white people feel that way, 181 00:10:45,350 --> 00:10:48,940 Speaker 2: even if they didn't directly participate. And that's not necessarily true. 182 00:10:49,470 --> 00:10:51,230 Speaker 1: Well said. It's insidious. That's the word. 183 00:10:52,730 --> 00:10:55,950 Speaker 2: See, all I had to say was insidious. You always 184 00:10:56,010 --> 00:10:58,390 Speaker 2: do that to me. You're so much better at pulling 185 00:10:58,429 --> 00:11:01,910 Speaker 2: the right word out. And I like give five or 186 00:11:01,910 --> 00:11:04,580 Speaker 2: 600 words to that one word. I'm doing it right now. 187 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,620 Speaker 1: Hey, I'm your jelly to your peanut butter. It works well. 188 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: We work well together. 189 00:11:10,300 --> 00:11:11,460 Speaker 2: I always assumed I was jelly. 190 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: You can be jelly today. 191 00:11:14,300 --> 00:11:14,579 Speaker 2: All right. 192 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 3: So in North Carolina, the Democratic Party was like you said, 193 00:11:18,460 --> 00:11:19,900 Speaker 3: they were like, we're having no more of this. 194 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:22,340 Speaker 1: And there was a guy named Furnifold M. 195 00:11:22,380 --> 00:11:26,179 Speaker 3: Simmons who launched what was called and is in capital letters, everybody, 196 00:11:26,250 --> 00:11:27,970 Speaker 3: the white supremacy campaign. 197 00:11:28,950 --> 00:11:29,990 Speaker 1: Because like I mentioned earlier. 198 00:11:30,050 --> 00:11:33,209 Speaker 3: This wasn't just like this is a very organized thing 199 00:11:33,350 --> 00:11:36,270 Speaker 3: that they got together and had meetings and said, this 200 00:11:36,330 --> 00:11:38,290 Speaker 3: is how we will stop this. It wasn't just some 201 00:11:38,710 --> 00:11:41,620 Speaker 3: kind of random actions that were dashed off by a 202 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 3: bunch of mad white people. I think that's what makes 203 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 3: it so insidious, too, is just how organized it was. 204 00:11:47,540 --> 00:11:51,100 Speaker 3: So the first thing they did was to start, you know, 205 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,850 Speaker 3: getting out in the press and labeling what's happening in 206 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,710 Speaker 3: the press. You know, unfortunate language here, but they said 207 00:11:57,770 --> 00:12:01,570 Speaker 3: that they had to stop things like Negro domination to 208 00:12:01,710 --> 00:12:04,469 Speaker 3: scare people. Like what, you know, what they're trying to 209 00:12:04,510 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 3: do is lure these working class white people back to 210 00:12:07,740 --> 00:12:10,839 Speaker 3: the Democratic Party because they had been swept up in 211 00:12:10,860 --> 00:12:15,690 Speaker 3: this fusion of fusionist movement of policies that were better 212 00:12:15,710 --> 00:12:16,010 Speaker 3: for them. 213 00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:23,490 Speaker 2: Yeah, it had been reframed from race to class, the problem. 214 00:12:23,990 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 2: And yeah, it had been very successful, the populists had. 215 00:12:27,340 --> 00:12:31,420 Speaker 2: One of the other ways that this white supremacy campaign 216 00:12:31,700 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 2: was successful in gaining recognition and adherence is through the media, 217 00:12:36,700 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 2: specifically through the Raleigh News and Observer newspaper. The editor 218 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,470 Speaker 2: was a guy named Josephus Daniels, and he was one 219 00:12:44,510 --> 00:12:47,870 Speaker 2: of the leaders of the whole campaign. But in his paper, 220 00:12:47,910 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 2: he used his paper to also scare white working class 221 00:12:52,010 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 2: voters into supporting this idea. They would just run all 222 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,780 Speaker 2: sorts of terrible stuff. They would blow things out of proportion. 223 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,020 Speaker 2: I believe they would make things up. But it was 224 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:07,930 Speaker 2: very slanted against black North Carolinians and black people in Wilmington. 225 00:13:08,980 --> 00:13:10,860 Speaker 2: In just about every way it reported. 226 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, they would run articles that would paint all black 227 00:13:15,260 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 3: people as criminals. You know, watch your back, everybody. They 228 00:13:19,020 --> 00:13:22,660 Speaker 3: will steal from you. There will be sexual assault committed 229 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 3: against your sister or your mother or your cousin. And 230 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,670 Speaker 3: there was another guy in town named Alex Manley. And 231 00:13:31,690 --> 00:13:34,330 Speaker 3: this is in 1898. He was the editor and publisher 232 00:13:34,570 --> 00:13:37,109 Speaker 3: of the black newspaper in Wilmington called The Daily Record. 233 00:13:37,770 --> 00:13:42,530 Speaker 3: And he had finally had enough of them painting his 234 00:13:42,730 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 3: people as rapists. So he was like, you know what? And, 235 00:13:47,059 --> 00:13:50,579 Speaker 3: you know, he wrote this a little more probably eloquently 236 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 3: in his articles and his op-eds. 237 00:13:52,980 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 1: But he said, you know what? 238 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,340 Speaker 3: What we have actually is an endemic of rape of 239 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 3: black women by white men who are just basically allowed 240 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 3: to do it and get away with it. And there 241 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,030 Speaker 3: are also a lot of cases of poor white women 242 00:14:06,540 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 3: who have very consensual, secret, clandestine, romantic relationship with black men. 243 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,020 Speaker 3: And when it comes to the public eye, those men 244 00:14:15,179 --> 00:14:18,300 Speaker 3: are painted as rapists and lynched sometimes. 245 00:14:19,510 --> 00:14:24,450 Speaker 2: So what Alex Manley did right there is he basically 246 00:14:24,690 --> 00:14:27,910 Speaker 2: pointed out that a taboo is routinely broken. If you've 247 00:14:27,950 --> 00:14:30,900 Speaker 2: ever seen or read To Kill a Mockingbird. Yeah, exactly. 248 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 2: Because Finch says, this is the most taboo thing in 249 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:40,380 Speaker 2: all of Southern culture, a white person, a white woman specifically, 250 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,810 Speaker 2: willingly sleeping with a black man, that that is the 251 00:14:44,850 --> 00:14:47,390 Speaker 2: most taboo thing that can happen. And Alex Manley's like, 252 00:14:47,630 --> 00:14:49,590 Speaker 2: that happens all the time. I think he even said 253 00:14:50,050 --> 00:14:51,570 Speaker 2: some of them even fall in love. 254 00:14:51,750 --> 00:14:51,990 Speaker 3: Yeah. 255 00:14:52,150 --> 00:14:56,070 Speaker 2: And that, it was like a bomb dropping. And in 256 00:14:56,130 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 2: his defense- He was responding to a white supremacist speech 257 00:15:00,380 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 2: by a woman named Rebecca Latimer Felton, who called on 258 00:15:04,060 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 2: white men and called white men's honor into question because 259 00:15:07,060 --> 00:15:09,380 Speaker 2: she said that they needed to do more to protect 260 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:14,830 Speaker 2: white women from black rapist men by lynching them more. 261 00:15:15,130 --> 00:15:17,490 Speaker 2: And so he was responding to this saying that's actually 262 00:15:17,530 --> 00:15:20,390 Speaker 2: not the case. But nobody took it like that. They 263 00:15:20,430 --> 00:15:23,820 Speaker 2: took it as him being as provocative as an editor 264 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:25,940 Speaker 2: could be at the time in the South. Yeah. 265 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,170 Speaker 3: And, you know, the response was what you would think 266 00:15:28,210 --> 00:15:32,390 Speaker 3: it would be. White advertisers left the Daily Record, their 267 00:15:32,430 --> 00:15:35,670 Speaker 3: landlord who, you know, where they house the newspaper offices, 268 00:15:35,730 --> 00:15:36,330 Speaker 3: evicted them. 269 00:15:37,510 --> 00:15:39,410 Speaker 1: He himself received death threats, of course. 270 00:15:40,270 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 3: And a lot of the Democratic papers across the state 271 00:15:43,340 --> 00:15:46,820 Speaker 3: and the South started kind of either pulling quotes out 272 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 3: of context or whatever to scare people again, using sort 273 00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:53,140 Speaker 3: of his own words against him and. 274 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:53,950 Speaker 1: Rile up that white supremacist base. 275 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 2: You want to take a break and come back and 276 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:28,130 Speaker 2: talk about the election of 1898? Yeah, let's do it. OK, Chuck, 277 00:16:28,170 --> 00:16:32,270 Speaker 2: so it's 1898 and specifically around election time. This is 278 00:16:32,330 --> 00:16:36,050 Speaker 2: when that white supremacist campaign really kind of started to 279 00:16:36,430 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 2: to put words into action. The Democratic Party Convention for 1898, 280 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 2: the state convention, I should say, in North Carolina, essentially 281 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 2: was like we're we're. all about this white supremacy campaign. 282 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,340 Speaker 2: Like we need to take back political power from the 283 00:16:55,400 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 2: black voters, the black politicians. And that was part of it, right? 284 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,719 Speaker 2: So there's a political side of it, but then there 285 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:09,220 Speaker 2: was also a, well, a terrorist side of it that was, 286 00:17:09,510 --> 00:17:13,450 Speaker 2: that also supported this idea through violence and intimidation. It 287 00:17:13,490 --> 00:17:17,100 Speaker 2: was carried out by kind of a clan-esque group called 288 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,820 Speaker 2: the Red Shirts, who had originated in South Carolina, but 289 00:17:19,859 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 2: it spread to North Carolina as well. And they were 290 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:29,929 Speaker 2: essentially called upon to enforce this white supremacist campaign and 291 00:17:29,990 --> 00:17:33,550 Speaker 2: its aims and goals by intimidating. And then if intimidation 292 00:17:33,570 --> 00:17:37,550 Speaker 2: didn't work, like outright violence against anybody who wanted to 293 00:17:37,630 --> 00:17:40,010 Speaker 2: exercise their constitutional rights. Yeah. 294 00:17:40,090 --> 00:17:44,850 Speaker 3: And we're talking about voting here, like voter intimidation in 295 00:17:44,890 --> 00:17:49,490 Speaker 3: a big, big way. this organized campaign. The leaders at 296 00:17:49,510 --> 00:17:52,090 Speaker 3: the time were anonymous. I think some of them have 297 00:17:52,130 --> 00:17:56,889 Speaker 3: come out in decades since. But there were Wilmington Democrats 298 00:17:56,950 --> 00:18:00,170 Speaker 3: who got these nightly patrols organized with the red shirts 299 00:18:00,270 --> 00:18:03,470 Speaker 3: and more, where there was a captain for each city 300 00:18:03,490 --> 00:18:06,950 Speaker 3: ward and a lieutenant for every block. So like super 301 00:18:06,990 --> 00:18:10,350 Speaker 3: organized stuff. And they were like, you know, it was 302 00:18:10,390 --> 00:18:12,050 Speaker 3: under the guise of, hey, like there's going to be 303 00:18:12,070 --> 00:18:15,380 Speaker 3: a violent uprising of the black residents. So we need 304 00:18:15,390 --> 00:18:19,160 Speaker 3: to be prepared. So let's get organized, let's get guns 305 00:18:19,340 --> 00:18:21,739 Speaker 3: and like big time guns. I got like Gatlin machine 306 00:18:21,790 --> 00:18:26,390 Speaker 3: guns and this gun called a Hotchkiss gun that, you know, 307 00:18:26,490 --> 00:18:30,350 Speaker 3: they were machine guns, like Civil War era machine guns. Meanwhile, 308 00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:33,430 Speaker 3: the black residents didn't have many guns at the time. 309 00:18:33,570 --> 00:18:35,710 Speaker 3: And if they tried to buy guns, like there was 310 00:18:36,750 --> 00:18:40,790 Speaker 3: an article in the News and Observer, I think, that 311 00:18:40,990 --> 00:18:43,379 Speaker 3: wrote an article about two black men who tried to 312 00:18:43,420 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 3: order rifles and pistols. And the title of the story 313 00:18:46,140 --> 00:18:49,750 Speaker 3: was The Wilmington Negroes are trying to buy guns. 314 00:18:50,609 --> 00:18:53,150 Speaker 2: Yeah, that gives you a really good idea of what 315 00:18:53,210 --> 00:18:55,650 Speaker 2: the news and observers role was for sure. 316 00:18:56,030 --> 00:18:59,430 Speaker 1: Yeah. We need to talk about Alfred Waddell, though, this guy. 317 00:19:00,300 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. So he was he eventually became the public face 318 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 2: and leader of this movement, this white supremacist campaign. But 319 00:19:10,180 --> 00:19:13,340 Speaker 2: he was not calling the shots. There were two secret cabals, 320 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,859 Speaker 2: one called the Elite Nine and the other called the 321 00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 2: Group Six. who were at the highest echelons of white 322 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,770 Speaker 2: power in Wilmington and North Carolina and probably other states too. 323 00:19:23,830 --> 00:19:27,310 Speaker 2: But they were meeting and getting together and figuring out 324 00:19:27,369 --> 00:19:30,530 Speaker 2: what to do. But Alfred Moore Waddell was like the 325 00:19:30,590 --> 00:19:33,590 Speaker 2: guy who seemed to be in the public leading this thing. 326 00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:37,190 Speaker 2: He was a congressman. He was a former Confederate colonel, 327 00:19:37,310 --> 00:19:42,260 Speaker 2: I believe. And he started giving speeches that were, I mean, 328 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:47,470 Speaker 2: just as intimidating and scary as any public speech ever 329 00:19:47,530 --> 00:19:54,609 Speaker 2: given by a politician. He said that essentially, if you're 330 00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:57,390 Speaker 2: a white man, if you see a black man trying 331 00:19:57,430 --> 00:19:59,389 Speaker 2: to vote, you need to chase him from the polls. 332 00:19:59,490 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 2: And if he won't leave, you need to shoot him dead, essentially. Yeah. 333 00:20:03,190 --> 00:20:06,700 Speaker 3: He said that they would choke the Cape Fear River 334 00:20:06,740 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 3: with carcasses. 335 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,730 Speaker 1: And he said that quote, more than once in his time. 336 00:20:12,210 --> 00:20:15,090 Speaker 2: Yeah. One thing about him, though, is it's easy to 337 00:20:15,130 --> 00:20:17,010 Speaker 2: be like he was just some dumb racist. He had 338 00:20:17,030 --> 00:20:19,970 Speaker 2: like a silver tongue. He had a really good way 339 00:20:20,090 --> 00:20:25,060 Speaker 2: of putting things like just just flipping reality on its 340 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,940 Speaker 2: back end, essentially just turning things upside down. And that 341 00:20:30,020 --> 00:20:32,820 Speaker 2: whole thing about how, you know, there was going to 342 00:20:32,859 --> 00:20:36,490 Speaker 2: be an uprising by blacks in Wilmington. that that needed 343 00:20:36,510 --> 00:20:38,490 Speaker 2: to be looked out for. That was the reason that 344 00:20:38,570 --> 00:20:42,859 Speaker 2: the white people were arming themselves. Or they also portrayed 345 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 2: the black politicians in charge in Wilmington as basically having 346 00:20:49,100 --> 00:20:53,420 Speaker 2: been duped by white carpetbaggers from the North who were 347 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,290 Speaker 2: really pulling the strings and calling the shots. And you 348 00:20:57,330 --> 00:20:59,830 Speaker 2: can't be mad at the black politicians. They don't know 349 00:20:59,890 --> 00:21:04,150 Speaker 2: any better. Essentially like that, like as patronizing and paternalistic 350 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,900 Speaker 2: approaches you can have. But that was just deep seated, virulent, 351 00:21:09,020 --> 00:21:11,540 Speaker 2: racist rhetoric as well, combined with it. 352 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:12,580 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. 353 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,780 Speaker 3: So leading up to the election and the few days before, 354 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:21,369 Speaker 3: the red shirts are patrolling Wilmington. They're terrorizing the black community. 355 00:21:21,420 --> 00:21:26,070 Speaker 3: They're randomly firing into houses with guns. They fired into 356 00:21:26,109 --> 00:21:28,930 Speaker 3: a black school at one point. At least two black 357 00:21:28,970 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 3: men were stabbed. And this is just happening like out 358 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,900 Speaker 3: in the street before the election. They held a white 359 00:21:36,940 --> 00:21:40,980 Speaker 3: man's rally, which had a parade of armed men with torches. 360 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,460 Speaker 3: That's what I was talking about. Sort of reminded me 361 00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:44,780 Speaker 3: of Virginia not too long ago. 362 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:45,899 Speaker 2: Yeah. 363 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,460 Speaker 1: And Waddell spoke again at that that rally. 364 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 3: And that's where he talked about once again about choking 365 00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:53,379 Speaker 3: the Cape Fear River with carcasses. 366 00:21:54,450 --> 00:21:56,350 Speaker 1: And then on the actual election day. 367 00:21:56,369 --> 00:22:01,609 Speaker 3: You know, it wasn't like a massacre of bloodshed on 368 00:22:01,670 --> 00:22:04,980 Speaker 3: that day. But it was a big, successful campaign. Like, 369 00:22:05,820 --> 00:22:07,699 Speaker 3: you know, sometimes if you tried to vote, you were 370 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,300 Speaker 3: physically blocked. Sometimes in a lot of cases, I think 371 00:22:11,340 --> 00:22:13,620 Speaker 3: you were just too intimidated to show up at all. 372 00:22:14,730 --> 00:22:17,469 Speaker 3: And the governor showed up because Governor Russell was from Wilmington. And, 373 00:22:17,590 --> 00:22:20,030 Speaker 3: you know, traditionally you will go back to where you're 374 00:22:20,530 --> 00:22:23,730 Speaker 3: registered to vote like very publicly for the press. And 375 00:22:23,770 --> 00:22:25,970 Speaker 3: he traveled there on election day to cast his vote. 376 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,340 Speaker 3: And on his way back after the vote, the red 377 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 3: shirt's basically hijacked his train and tried to lynch the governor. 378 00:22:33,820 --> 00:22:35,260 Speaker 1: And he had to hide out in the mail car. 379 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,380 Speaker 2: Yeah, which really shows how emboldened they felt. Like these 380 00:22:39,420 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 2: guys were like, if they feel like they can kill 381 00:22:43,140 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 2: the governor. 382 00:22:44,180 --> 00:22:44,980 Speaker 1: Their white governor. 383 00:22:45,380 --> 00:22:48,830 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're pretty sure that they have the backing from 384 00:22:48,890 --> 00:22:49,730 Speaker 2: the most high. 385 00:22:49,750 --> 00:22:50,290 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. 386 00:22:50,430 --> 00:22:52,990 Speaker 2: You know, they can just do whatever they want. Right. 387 00:22:53,050 --> 00:22:56,909 Speaker 2: So it has really now gotten really out of hand. 388 00:22:57,570 --> 00:23:00,350 Speaker 2: And yet we haven't even reached the worst part yet. 389 00:23:02,210 --> 00:23:05,830 Speaker 2: Everything really started to get worse after Election Day. We're 390 00:23:05,850 --> 00:23:08,730 Speaker 2: still on Election Day. One of the other things that 391 00:23:08,770 --> 00:23:13,990 Speaker 2: happened during the 1898 election in Wilmington itself is a 392 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 2: lot of the black precincts, they were run by white 393 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 2: county registrars who just replaced votes. If you voted Republican— 394 00:23:24,540 --> 00:23:27,780 Speaker 2: They would just replace your vote with a Democratic ballot. 395 00:23:28,660 --> 00:23:32,980 Speaker 3: Yeah, there was there's some statistics here at one black 396 00:23:33,020 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 3: majority precinct. About 150 white men stormed the vote count 397 00:23:38,619 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 3: and the Democratic candidate there got more votes from that 398 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:46,050 Speaker 3: precinct than there were registered voters. And then in Wilmington itself, 399 00:23:46,109 --> 00:23:50,170 Speaker 3: the fusionist won the previous election two years earlier by 400 00:23:50,170 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 3: 5000 votes. And in this election, they lost by 6000. 401 00:23:54,600 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. And statewide also, the fusionist movement was essentially disassembled, right? 402 00:24:00,270 --> 00:24:04,470 Speaker 1: Yeah. They squashed the vote and won politically. 403 00:24:05,670 --> 00:24:09,210 Speaker 2: So there were a lot of just average black residents 404 00:24:09,290 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 2: in North Carolina who were like, okay, we made it 405 00:24:11,340 --> 00:24:14,140 Speaker 2: through election night. There was like very little violence. The 406 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,180 Speaker 2: white people stole the election, but there's still peace right now. 407 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,920 Speaker 2: And this sucks, but we can figure out how to 408 00:24:21,140 --> 00:24:23,930 Speaker 2: regroup after this, right? We still have our lives. We've 409 00:24:23,970 --> 00:24:27,010 Speaker 2: lived to fight another day. But like I said, it 410 00:24:27,490 --> 00:24:30,770 Speaker 2: didn't really start to get bad until after election day. 411 00:24:30,869 --> 00:24:33,620 Speaker 2: And the reason why, in Wilmington specifically, I should say, 412 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,699 Speaker 2: and the reason why is because in the 1898 election, 413 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,740 Speaker 2: the municipal seats weren't up for election. They were up 414 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,510 Speaker 2: for election the following year in 1897. And yet the 415 00:24:43,550 --> 00:24:47,209 Speaker 2: white supremacist campaign in the town Wanted those guys out 416 00:24:47,369 --> 00:24:49,670 Speaker 2: more than anybody because they were the ones who were, 417 00:24:50,090 --> 00:24:54,590 Speaker 2: you know, running the town. So this is where what 418 00:24:54,650 --> 00:24:57,450 Speaker 2: you what you call the coup before really started. It 419 00:24:57,490 --> 00:24:59,130 Speaker 2: was the day after Election Day. 420 00:24:59,390 --> 00:25:00,669 Speaker 1: Yeah, which was November 9th. 421 00:25:01,570 --> 00:25:05,730 Speaker 3: The supremacist leaders put a notice in the Wilmington Messenger 422 00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:09,410 Speaker 3: that the headline was attention white men and said, let's 423 00:25:09,470 --> 00:25:11,230 Speaker 3: get together at the local courthouse. 424 00:25:11,270 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: And at that meeting, Waddell shows up. He reads the. 425 00:25:15,780 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 3: What would eventually become known as the Wilmington Declaration of 426 00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:22,530 Speaker 3: Independence or the White Declaration of Independence, where they announced 427 00:25:22,570 --> 00:25:26,470 Speaker 3: the plan to, quote, end the rule by Negroes, end quote. 428 00:25:26,970 --> 00:25:29,149 Speaker 3: And basically saying like the long and short of it 429 00:25:29,170 --> 00:25:32,490 Speaker 3: was like, hey, we pay all the taxes here. And 430 00:25:32,810 --> 00:25:37,470 Speaker 3: when the constitutional framers wrote about, you know, men being 431 00:25:37,710 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 3: equal and everything. They had not anticipated, quote, the enfranchisement 432 00:25:42,580 --> 00:25:46,670 Speaker 3: of an ignorant population of African origin. And we need 433 00:25:46,690 --> 00:25:48,909 Speaker 3: to get this newspaper shut down. We need to get 434 00:25:48,950 --> 00:25:52,810 Speaker 3: that editor gone. We need to get the mayor and 435 00:25:52,850 --> 00:25:56,370 Speaker 3: the police chief out of here. 436 00:25:56,410 --> 00:25:58,770 Speaker 1: And 450 people signed on to this delegation. 437 00:26:00,190 --> 00:26:03,450 Speaker 2: Yeah. And again, largely from the middle and upper classes 438 00:26:03,670 --> 00:26:04,690 Speaker 2: of the city, right? 439 00:26:05,090 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: Yeah. 440 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,659 Speaker 2: 450 people. That's a lot of people endorsing a director. 441 00:26:09,630 --> 00:26:17,070 Speaker 2: hate-filled coup declaration that calls for violence. Still, this is 442 00:26:17,130 --> 00:26:20,490 Speaker 2: a city of 20,000 and it's majority Black residents, right? Yeah. 443 00:26:21,050 --> 00:26:23,270 Speaker 2: So Waddell knew, like, we're going to need more than 444 00:26:23,270 --> 00:26:26,380 Speaker 2: 450 people. It would be great to have the compliance 445 00:26:26,470 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 2: of the Black political leadership in the town. So he assembled, 446 00:26:30,540 --> 00:26:33,919 Speaker 2: he called for the 32 of the city leaders, the 447 00:26:33,940 --> 00:26:38,150 Speaker 2: Black city leaders to come down, meet with him, And 448 00:26:38,190 --> 00:26:41,010 Speaker 2: he read them the declaration. This is in the municipal 449 00:26:41,070 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 2: building where these people have been democratically elected to hold office. 450 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 2: Waddell's walking around like he owns the place, reads them 451 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 2: this declaration and says, here's what we want from you. 452 00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 2: We want full compliance. We want you to basically step 453 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 2: down and admit like this is all just some terrible farce. 454 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,910 Speaker 2: And really, we need white people to run the show 455 00:27:00,990 --> 00:27:04,570 Speaker 2: from now on for eternity. And I'll give you 12 456 00:27:04,570 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 2: hours to reply till 730 tomorrow morning. And this group 457 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 2: was like, they got together and they're like, what are 458 00:27:11,100 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 2: we going to do? Like this, this will directly trigger 459 00:27:14,020 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 2: a violent white uprising against us. So we lose either way. 460 00:27:19,570 --> 00:27:22,609 Speaker 2: At the very least, we can hopefully spare our lives 461 00:27:22,650 --> 00:27:25,090 Speaker 2: and the lives of other black residents if we agree, 462 00:27:25,109 --> 00:27:28,229 Speaker 2: if we comply. So they did. They wrote a compliant 463 00:27:28,369 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 2: response to Waddell. And supposedly they had beaten that 7.30 a.m. deadline. 464 00:27:37,170 --> 00:27:39,590 Speaker 2: But they couldn't get it to Waddell directly, though, right? 465 00:27:39,970 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, they were guards, armed patrols guarding his house at 466 00:27:43,300 --> 00:27:43,740 Speaker 3: the time. 467 00:27:44,300 --> 00:27:45,580 Speaker 1: So they weren't approaching the house. 468 00:27:45,780 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 3: So a lawyer from the group of black leaders sent 469 00:27:49,780 --> 00:27:51,379 Speaker 3: it by post. They went to the post office and 470 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,909 Speaker 3: it didn't reach him by the deadline. A lot of 471 00:27:53,930 --> 00:27:56,010 Speaker 3: historians say like he knew that they sent it and 472 00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:59,510 Speaker 3: he knew it was coming. But regardless, it did not 473 00:27:59,550 --> 00:28:01,590 Speaker 3: reach him by the deadline. And maybe we should take 474 00:28:01,630 --> 00:28:04,310 Speaker 3: a break there and come back and talk about the massacre. 475 00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 2: All right. 476 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,020 Speaker 1: So the next day was November 10th, a couple of 477 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:34,859 Speaker 1: days after the election. 478 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 3: And 500 white men, you can only call them a mob, 479 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:45,020 Speaker 3: assembled at the Wilmington Light Infantry Armory. And they called 480 00:28:45,260 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 3: on the commander there, Lieutenant Colonel Walker Taylor, to lead 481 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,490 Speaker 3: them to the Daily Record, to that newspaper. And Waddell 482 00:28:52,550 --> 00:28:55,130 Speaker 3: ended up going. He was kind of, you know, leading 483 00:28:55,150 --> 00:28:57,630 Speaker 3: the charge there toward the office. They marched through town. 484 00:28:58,150 --> 00:29:00,310 Speaker 3: Other people, you know, it's like something out of a movie, 485 00:29:00,330 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 3: start joining in. And supposedly about 2000 angry white men 486 00:29:06,180 --> 00:29:09,500 Speaker 3: ended up going to the Daily Record office. And the 487 00:29:09,580 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 3: editor there mainly had already gotten out of Dodge. So 488 00:29:13,260 --> 00:29:14,719 Speaker 3: he saw the writing on the wall. He got out 489 00:29:14,740 --> 00:29:17,550 Speaker 3: of there. They didn't find him there. So they burned 490 00:29:17,630 --> 00:29:18,350 Speaker 3: down the building. 491 00:29:19,410 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. Chuck, just put yourself in that spot that day 492 00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:25,810 Speaker 2: at that moment in this town. It was the biggest 493 00:29:26,170 --> 00:29:29,430 Speaker 2: town in North Carolina at the time, but you're still 494 00:29:29,470 --> 00:29:35,270 Speaker 2: only talking about 20,000 people. Imagine seeing 2,000 people, 10% 495 00:29:35,270 --> 00:29:39,110 Speaker 2: of the population, armed and angry and out for blood 496 00:29:39,450 --> 00:29:44,459 Speaker 2: coming down. these narrow streets in downtown Wilmington, like seeing 497 00:29:44,540 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 2: that come, even if you didn't think they were coming 498 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 2: for you, just seeing that kind of like unhinged, like 499 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,980 Speaker 2: mass behaviors. Just, I mean, that's just scary to think 500 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,820 Speaker 2: of even now, a hundred years plus later, like that's, 501 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 2: It's crazy that this actually happened. And it's so easy 502 00:30:02,940 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 2: a century on to just it's just history. But if 503 00:30:06,860 --> 00:30:09,370 Speaker 2: you can just put yourself there for a second, it 504 00:30:09,460 --> 00:30:12,970 Speaker 2: really kind of just begins to get across what it 505 00:30:13,030 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 2: must have been like to live through it. 506 00:30:14,930 --> 00:30:15,750 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. 507 00:30:16,770 --> 00:30:20,010 Speaker 3: So, you know, they burned the newspaper building down. Then 508 00:30:20,030 --> 00:30:22,430 Speaker 3: they moved to a black neighborhood. It was called Brooklyn 509 00:30:22,790 --> 00:30:26,190 Speaker 3: near the waterfront. And the largest employer in the city 510 00:30:26,210 --> 00:30:28,450 Speaker 3: at the time was a cotton processing facility. 511 00:30:29,210 --> 00:30:30,690 Speaker 1: They employed a lot of black workers. 512 00:30:31,610 --> 00:30:36,950 Speaker 3: And on the way, they're shooting indiscriminately into businesses, black-owned 513 00:30:36,990 --> 00:30:42,370 Speaker 3: businesses and black homes, marching toward this cotton facility. And finally, 514 00:30:42,430 --> 00:30:46,830 Speaker 3: the governor, he responded to Colonel Taylor's message and basically said, hey, listen, man, 515 00:30:46,910 --> 00:30:50,130 Speaker 3: you're down there. This is your armory. You've got to 516 00:30:50,260 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 3: restore peace. So the light infantry and a few naval 517 00:30:54,500 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 3: reservists They marched down to Brooklyn, but they didn't do 518 00:30:57,900 --> 00:31:01,140 Speaker 3: anything to stop anything. They basically joined in, fired on 519 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,940 Speaker 3: black residents that they, you know, they thought were maybe 520 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 3: threatening and, you know, essentially stood by while the massacre 521 00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:11,100 Speaker 3: starts to ensue. 522 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 2: Right. The Hotchkiss gun, the Gatling gun, they made an appearance. 523 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,100 Speaker 2: People were not just shot. They were hanged. They were dragged. 524 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 2: you could be in the wrong place at the wrong 525 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,700 Speaker 2: time and have been murdered just for being a black 526 00:31:26,740 --> 00:31:30,110 Speaker 2: man standing in the wrong place, which means there was 527 00:31:30,220 --> 00:31:32,970 Speaker 2: a lot of indiscriminate murder, which another term for that 528 00:31:33,030 --> 00:31:33,790 Speaker 2: is thrill killing. 529 00:31:34,150 --> 00:31:35,190 Speaker 1: Yeah. 530 00:31:35,450 --> 00:31:39,550 Speaker 2: And there was also targeted acts by this mob, too. 531 00:31:39,990 --> 00:31:42,430 Speaker 2: There was a bunch of armed white men that surrounded 532 00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:45,690 Speaker 2: the house of Daniel Wright, who's a black politician. They 533 00:31:45,730 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 2: told him to run and they gave him a few 534 00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 2: feet before they shot him in the back and killed him. Yeah. 535 00:31:51,570 --> 00:31:55,910 Speaker 2: They ransacked black churches like it was there was no. 536 00:31:55,930 --> 00:32:01,190 Speaker 2: I can't even think of the word, but nothing was 537 00:32:01,250 --> 00:32:02,510 Speaker 2: out of bounds, it seems like. 538 00:32:02,850 --> 00:32:03,209 Speaker 1: Yeah. 539 00:32:03,530 --> 00:32:08,050 Speaker 3: You know, so Waddell gets down to, I guess, you know, 540 00:32:08,070 --> 00:32:10,750 Speaker 3: while this is all going on. He calls on the mayor, 541 00:32:11,230 --> 00:32:12,970 Speaker 3: the police chief, all these people they want out of 542 00:32:13,010 --> 00:32:16,990 Speaker 3: their jobs, basically. They say, come down to the offices here, 543 00:32:18,130 --> 00:32:21,350 Speaker 3: meet the mob and resign your seats under, you know, 544 00:32:21,450 --> 00:32:25,030 Speaker 3: obviously threat of physical violence. And Waddell was like, I'm 545 00:32:25,070 --> 00:32:29,390 Speaker 3: mayor now. And it's now officially a coup. The other 546 00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 3: offices were filled by these white conspiracists and supremacists. In 547 00:32:34,700 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 3: the end, it's, you know, trying to get a number 548 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,140 Speaker 3: of the people killed is tougher thing that sort of 549 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:44,140 Speaker 3: been buried by history. The coroner's report, which is incredibly false, 550 00:32:44,180 --> 00:32:47,200 Speaker 3: said 14 people. Some reports said as many as 300. 551 00:32:47,180 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 3: The official state report from 2006 says up to 60. 552 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,060 Speaker 3: But yeah, those those are the numbers somewhere between 60 553 00:32:56,060 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 3: and 300 people just murdered in cold blood. 554 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I found an interactive map that shows where people died. 555 00:33:02,700 --> 00:33:05,350 Speaker 2: And there was just just random street corners where like 556 00:33:05,370 --> 00:33:07,950 Speaker 2: three or four black men were shot to death. Um, 557 00:33:08,210 --> 00:33:10,410 Speaker 2: everyone who died was black. I think you just said 558 00:33:10,430 --> 00:33:13,490 Speaker 2: a handful of white mob members have been wounded, uh, 559 00:33:14,210 --> 00:33:17,810 Speaker 2: typically from being shot, but all of them survived. And again, 560 00:33:17,870 --> 00:33:20,830 Speaker 2: all of this just took place over a day. And 561 00:33:20,910 --> 00:33:23,190 Speaker 2: as it was going on, a lot of the black 562 00:33:23,260 --> 00:33:28,620 Speaker 2: residents fled. Yeah. Um, they fled into the surrounding swamplands, 563 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 2: fled into the woods, a cemetery, and they just hid 564 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,830 Speaker 2: for days. Um, And they finally, some of them, they 565 00:33:35,870 --> 00:33:38,010 Speaker 2: started to trickle back in, but some of them were like, 566 00:33:38,150 --> 00:33:39,690 Speaker 2: I just need to get my stuff and get out 567 00:33:39,710 --> 00:33:43,870 Speaker 2: of here. You know, I like a lot of the 568 00:33:43,910 --> 00:33:48,350 Speaker 2: residents in the city moved. I saw something like 10% 569 00:33:48,350 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 2: of the black residents ended up leaving the city either 570 00:33:52,660 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 2: on their own because they didn't want to live there anymore, 571 00:33:54,820 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 2: or they were marched out of town at gunpoint in 572 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 2: a lot of cases. Yeah. 573 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 3: And the ones who did stay obviously were disenfranchised at 574 00:34:02,100 --> 00:34:05,110 Speaker 3: the polls. They You know, may have been kicked out 575 00:34:05,130 --> 00:34:07,890 Speaker 3: of their job or had less access to good jobs 576 00:34:08,530 --> 00:34:10,629 Speaker 3: or getting like a bank loan or something like that, 577 00:34:10,650 --> 00:34:14,860 Speaker 3: because a lot of those businesses closed down, black owned businesses. 578 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 3: By 1900, the city had flipped and was majority white and, 579 00:34:20,020 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 3: you know, rates of literacy went down. financially, you know, 580 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,300 Speaker 3: the ones who remained there were poorer than they were before. 581 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,230 Speaker 3: And in the end, not a single person was ever 582 00:34:32,910 --> 00:34:34,750 Speaker 3: prosecuted for the massacre. 583 00:34:35,830 --> 00:34:38,169 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was those are two other things that it 584 00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:41,589 Speaker 2: bears another resemblance to the Tulsa massacre. One. 585 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:42,430 Speaker 1: Yeah. 586 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 2: Just like Tulsa, Wilmington was a source of black political 587 00:34:47,260 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 2: and economic power. It was like a powerhouse place for 588 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,170 Speaker 2: black people live at the time. And then to no 589 00:34:53,250 --> 00:34:58,690 Speaker 2: one was ever prosecuted for it. So the whole thing 590 00:34:58,969 --> 00:35:03,049 Speaker 2: just had such a sweeping effect, not just in the 591 00:35:03,110 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 2: intimidation of black residents and black voters, but in the 592 00:35:07,340 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 2: emboldenment of the white supremacists taking over the state, essentially, 593 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,259 Speaker 2: that one of these guys, he was one of the 594 00:35:15,300 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 2: conspirators in Wellington, his name was George Roundtree. He was 595 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,399 Speaker 2: elected a state representative And he introduced a bill that 596 00:35:23,460 --> 00:35:28,420 Speaker 2: included the quote that the chief object of the amendment 597 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,250 Speaker 2: is to eliminate the ignorant and irresponsible Negro vote. This 598 00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:34,710 Speaker 2: is a bill that was introduced to the North Carolina 599 00:35:34,770 --> 00:35:39,629 Speaker 2: legislature in 1901 and it passed resoundingly. Yeah. 600 00:35:40,130 --> 00:35:40,650 Speaker 1: Yeah. 601 00:35:40,690 --> 00:35:45,140 Speaker 3: The stat that really gets me out of this is it. 602 00:35:46,140 --> 00:35:50,550 Speaker 3: In six years, in 1896, there were 125,000 registered black 603 00:35:50,590 --> 00:35:52,910 Speaker 3: voters in the state of North Carolina. And six years later, 604 00:35:53,070 --> 00:35:57,310 Speaker 3: in 1902, there were 6,000 registered black voters. 605 00:35:57,950 --> 00:36:01,189 Speaker 2: I mean, it was just so successful. And it was 606 00:36:01,210 --> 00:36:03,750 Speaker 2: such a terrible thing to be successful, too. It's just, 607 00:36:04,510 --> 00:36:07,569 Speaker 2: it's heartbreaking. The state, of course, then went on and 608 00:36:07,590 --> 00:36:09,219 Speaker 2: was like, hey, let's come up with some Jim Crow 609 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,439 Speaker 2: laws since we can pass anything like that right now. 610 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,690 Speaker 2: The first was they segregated train cars. And then they 611 00:36:15,730 --> 00:36:19,670 Speaker 2: followed that up with bathrooms, movie theaters, courtroom Bibles had 612 00:36:19,710 --> 00:36:22,069 Speaker 2: to be you had to have separate ones for black 613 00:36:22,090 --> 00:36:25,570 Speaker 2: people and white people. And then, like I said, it 614 00:36:25,610 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 2: was it wasn't until 1992 that a black congressperson was 615 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,140 Speaker 2: elected in North Carolina after George Henry White left office 616 00:36:34,180 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 2: in 1901. So not only did it have like an 617 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:40,460 Speaker 2: immediate sweeping effect, it lasted for decades. 618 00:36:40,870 --> 00:36:43,010 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, even to today, you know, at the time 619 00:36:43,310 --> 00:36:46,469 Speaker 3: in 1896, Wilmington was a black majority town, like we said. 620 00:36:46,489 --> 00:36:51,979 Speaker 3: And today's black population in Wilmington is under 15 percent black. 621 00:36:52,100 --> 00:36:55,240 Speaker 3: Still a lot of racial tensions in that area, sadly. 622 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,240 Speaker 3: Immediately after this thing, you know, the cover up starts 623 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 3: basically in the whitewashing. Everything from like the newspapers officially 624 00:37:05,820 --> 00:37:09,580 Speaker 3: like denying that. It happened and there was no mob. 625 00:37:10,260 --> 00:37:12,500 Speaker 3: They called it a unanimous uprising of the white people. 626 00:37:13,340 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 3: Waddell himself, good Lord, this quote, he described it as 627 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,240 Speaker 3: the good old Anglo-Saxon way of waiting until government becomes 628 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,739 Speaker 3: intolerable and then openly and manfully overthrowing it. And he 629 00:37:24,820 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 3: himself over the years after just came out with one 630 00:37:28,739 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 3: thing after another, denying that it was either denying that 631 00:37:32,580 --> 00:37:36,230 Speaker 3: it was a thing and saying at the same time, 632 00:37:36,510 --> 00:37:40,430 Speaker 3: not even or, that they were really well within their 633 00:37:40,450 --> 00:37:41,549 Speaker 3: rights to do what they did. 634 00:37:41,570 --> 00:37:45,950 Speaker 2: Yeah, that they basically had to. And he also portrayed 635 00:37:46,570 --> 00:37:49,989 Speaker 2: the Black politicians and city leaders who'd been deposed in 636 00:37:50,030 --> 00:37:55,230 Speaker 2: this coup as afterward realizing, like, this was for the best. 637 00:37:55,430 --> 00:37:55,950 Speaker 1: Right. 638 00:37:56,110 --> 00:37:58,300 Speaker 2: He said that there was an article in the News 639 00:37:58,340 --> 00:38:01,739 Speaker 2: and Observer, like a couple of weeks after the massacre, 640 00:38:02,180 --> 00:38:04,860 Speaker 2: and Waddell was interviewed, and he basically gave the first 641 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,940 Speaker 2: extensive account of everything. So his word, his completely backward, 642 00:38:11,060 --> 00:38:14,410 Speaker 2: twisted up word was taken as like, well, this is 643 00:38:14,670 --> 00:38:17,270 Speaker 2: really what happened. And one of the things he said 644 00:38:17,310 --> 00:38:20,390 Speaker 2: was that the black politicians who'd been running the city 645 00:38:20,430 --> 00:38:24,609 Speaker 2: were now satisfied of their inefficiency and utter helpless imbecility 646 00:38:25,070 --> 00:38:27,270 Speaker 2: and that they saw that really white people needed to 647 00:38:27,330 --> 00:38:32,840 Speaker 2: run the show from that point on. Like, what's crazy 648 00:38:32,860 --> 00:38:38,129 Speaker 2: is this is How everybody viewed the Wilmington massacre, which 649 00:38:38,410 --> 00:38:40,509 Speaker 2: at the time from that point on was called the 650 00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:43,589 Speaker 2: Wilmington race riot. Because again, remember, they frame the whole 651 00:38:43,630 --> 00:38:46,049 Speaker 2: thing is like the black people in Wilmington were about 652 00:38:46,090 --> 00:38:48,469 Speaker 2: to have a violent uprising. And this is the white 653 00:38:48,510 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 2: response to it. So it was called that until 2000, 654 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,620 Speaker 2: I think, when there was an official commission that the 655 00:38:57,660 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 2: North Carolina General Assembly put together to say, like, go 656 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:05,190 Speaker 2: find out what really happened. And they, in this thing, 657 00:39:05,630 --> 00:39:08,969 Speaker 2: called it for the first time a massacre. Officially, it 658 00:39:09,010 --> 00:39:11,969 Speaker 2: was called by North Carolina Massacre. And they based it 659 00:39:12,050 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 2: on some earlier historic work by a woman named Helen 660 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:16,580 Speaker 2: Gray Edmonds. 661 00:39:17,140 --> 00:39:21,300 Speaker 3: Yeah, she kind of the first real, like honest account 662 00:39:21,340 --> 00:39:25,470 Speaker 3: of this didn't come until 1951. And she wrote this 663 00:39:26,790 --> 00:39:29,390 Speaker 3: book kind of, you know, it was challenged over the years. 664 00:39:29,430 --> 00:39:31,219 Speaker 3: A lot of white has at the time, of course, 665 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,400 Speaker 3: it was in 1951. We're like, no, she's overly dramatic. Uh, 666 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 3: but it is checked out for the most part over 667 00:39:37,620 --> 00:39:41,460 Speaker 3: time as being like the first, like kind of truthful accounting. Uh, 668 00:39:41,620 --> 00:39:43,180 Speaker 3: and you know, this is one of those stories that 669 00:39:43,219 --> 00:39:46,840 Speaker 3: came out little by little in just recent years. Uh, 670 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 3: I think there was a American, uh, experienced PBS documentary 671 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 3: in 2010 called American Coup colon Wilmington 1898. So the 672 00:39:58,500 --> 00:40:01,490 Speaker 3: fact that it even took that long to to for 673 00:40:01,530 --> 00:40:05,710 Speaker 3: stuff like this and the Tulsa massacre just shows how 674 00:40:05,790 --> 00:40:07,670 Speaker 3: far there still is to go, you know. 675 00:40:08,270 --> 00:40:11,270 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. There's so many that are so little known 676 00:40:11,330 --> 00:40:15,140 Speaker 2: or flying under the radar still misunderstood from this era. 677 00:40:15,660 --> 00:40:18,020 Speaker 2: This is not I don't want to say common, but 678 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:22,390 Speaker 2: it wasn't Totally out of the norm. And one of 679 00:40:22,410 --> 00:40:26,930 Speaker 2: the reasons also, again, it was misunderstood or mistaken was 680 00:40:26,969 --> 00:40:29,029 Speaker 2: because of Waddell. One of the things he said in 681 00:40:29,070 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 2: that article was he described how at one point the white, 682 00:40:33,580 --> 00:40:37,640 Speaker 2: I guess, liberators came across a mob of armed black residents, 683 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,260 Speaker 2: a thousand strong, shooting at them from behind the bushes. 684 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:45,650 Speaker 2: Didn't happen. In no way. way, shape or form happened. 685 00:40:46,310 --> 00:40:49,790 Speaker 2: And he just said that and it became the official narrative. 686 00:40:49,890 --> 00:40:53,310 Speaker 2: So yeah, that's how history is written a lot of times, guys. 687 00:40:53,390 --> 00:40:56,930 Speaker 2: And you have to look into it more. Yep. 688 00:40:57,430 --> 00:40:58,090 Speaker 1: I need a shower. 689 00:40:58,989 --> 00:41:00,850 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. This is the kind of thing that 690 00:41:00,890 --> 00:41:04,230 Speaker 2: can give white supremacists a bad name, you know? 691 00:41:07,190 --> 00:41:08,569 Speaker 1: A moment of levity. Thank you for that. 692 00:41:09,969 --> 00:41:12,770 Speaker 2: I think then we should just go ahead and go 693 00:41:12,790 --> 00:41:17,420 Speaker 2: on to listener mail. All right. 694 00:41:17,460 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: This is from Steph and Jude. 695 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 2: Hey, guys. 696 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,460 Speaker 3: Has it really been 18 years? Started listening to you 697 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,340 Speaker 3: while I was pregnant with my son, and he's 16 698 00:41:24,340 --> 00:41:26,600 Speaker 3: years old now. We've been enjoying stuff you should know 699 00:41:26,620 --> 00:41:27,640 Speaker 3: together since he was a baby. 700 00:41:29,140 --> 00:41:29,690 Speaker 1: Can you imagine? 701 00:41:29,730 --> 00:41:31,710 Speaker 3: He actually heard it in the womb, then as a baby, 702 00:41:32,170 --> 00:41:35,270 Speaker 3: then finally when he could understand it himself. It was 703 00:41:35,330 --> 00:41:37,129 Speaker 3: his first podcast, and we still listen to you both 704 00:41:37,210 --> 00:41:39,629 Speaker 3: on all of our road trips and weekends. My son 705 00:41:39,690 --> 00:41:42,940 Speaker 3: loves listening to you guys fall asleep, as do I. 706 00:41:43,010 --> 00:41:45,410 Speaker 3: It melts my heart when I remember all the times 707 00:41:45,650 --> 00:41:47,810 Speaker 3: he has sung the Stuff You Should Know song with 708 00:41:47,850 --> 00:41:51,670 Speaker 3: his little baby voice, now to his grown-up voice. From 709 00:41:51,730 --> 00:41:54,130 Speaker 3: pregnancy to high school, you guys have been there for us, 710 00:41:54,610 --> 00:41:56,670 Speaker 3: and it's still something we bond over, and I hope 711 00:41:56,710 --> 00:41:59,969 Speaker 3: that never ends. Thanks for the good times. That is 712 00:42:00,010 --> 00:42:03,490 Speaker 3: from Steph and Jude, and that is, Steph and Jude, 713 00:42:03,690 --> 00:42:05,250 Speaker 3: I'm sorry to put this email at the end of 714 00:42:05,290 --> 00:42:07,870 Speaker 3: such an ugly episode, but I think we needed a 715 00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:09,770 Speaker 3: palate cleanser and you guys are it. 716 00:42:10,390 --> 00:42:12,509 Speaker 2: Thanks, you guys, for being that for us. That is 717 00:42:12,550 --> 00:42:17,110 Speaker 2: a great email. What a wonderful story. Bringing people together, Chuck. 718 00:42:17,130 --> 00:42:17,790 Speaker 2: That's what we're doing. 719 00:42:18,410 --> 00:42:18,900 Speaker 1: Trying to. 720 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,060 Speaker 2: If you want to be like Steph and Jude and 721 00:42:22,100 --> 00:42:24,339 Speaker 2: let us know your sweet little story, we'd love those 722 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,500 Speaker 2: kinds of things. You can send it off to stuffpodcast 723 00:42:27,540 --> 00:42:34,459 Speaker 2: at iheartradio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 724 00:42:34,940 --> 00:42:39,190 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 725 00:42:39,370 --> 00:42:41,140 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.