Speaker 1: It's the Son of a Butcher podcast. We come to
Speaker 1: you every Wednesday. This week's guest Matthew Pavon, the Frenchman,
Speaker 1: just got his first win on the PGA Tour. He's
Speaker 1: one of those players that got into the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: off of the dp World Tour last year. He's pretty
Speaker 1: much played the majority of his career in Europe. But
Speaker 1: a very very big win for him and a win
Speaker 1: that I think could set him.
Speaker 2: Up for some really really good things.
Speaker 1: He's got a legit chance to make the Tour Championship now,
Speaker 1: we've got a Ryder Cup in a couple of years,
Speaker 1: so playing on the PGA Tour full time now he's exempt,
Speaker 1: he's into all the majors, he's into all the designated events.
Speaker 2: And it was a really really.
Speaker 1: Big win out at the Farmers on a tough golf
Speaker 1: course and a really cool talk with I think a
Speaker 1: player that's got a pretty high ceiling confidence is such
Speaker 1: a huge thing in golf, and I think he's going
Speaker 1: to take a lot of confidence into the rest of
Speaker 1: the year.
Speaker 2: Already got a win early and.
Speaker 1: He's basically playing with house money and we're gonna see
Speaker 1: what he can do in twenty twenty four, but a
Speaker 1: really cool interview. So sit back and enjoy listening to
Speaker 1: Matthew Pavon. So, Matthew, the obvious question is if we
Speaker 1: went back to February of twenty twenty three and I
Speaker 1: told you that in February twenty twenty four, you will
Speaker 1: be twenty six in the world, you'd be playing full
Speaker 1: time on the PGA Tour, you would already be a
Speaker 1: winner on the PGA Tour, and you'd be inside the
Speaker 1: top thirty in the official World Golf rankings. Would you
Speaker 1: have believed that all of that could happen in such
Speaker 1: a short period of time.
Speaker 3: In the short period No, to be fair, I always
Speaker 3: played my career step one step at a time. I
Speaker 3: know where I come from. I know I wasn't the
Speaker 3: most talented and most gifted gopher in the world. I
Speaker 3: had to build my career slowly. But yeah, those ones
Speaker 3: were my goal. So I dreamed of it, and I
Speaker 3: was ready to catch these momentums. But that quick, you know,
Speaker 3: it's it's just un but a little.
Speaker 1: The jump from DP World Tour playing in Europe and
Speaker 1: you are. One of the things I like about your
Speaker 1: career is you are a product of I still call
Speaker 1: it the European You're a product of the European Tour.
Speaker 1: You played the Alps Tour, you played the Challenge Tour,
Speaker 1: and then you got to the Big Tour, and now
Speaker 1: you've made the jump to the pinnacle of what everybody
Speaker 1: starts out wanting to do, which is play on the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour. How has it been different and how has
Speaker 1: it not been different than playing your full time in Europe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I'll only play full tournaments. Two of
Speaker 3: them were pro ams and one was in Hawaii, so
Speaker 3: I can't say I have like the proper taste of
Speaker 3: the PGA Tour best. But no, I think what was
Speaker 3: key for me is to keep doing what I was
Speaker 3: doing last year. I think people my change sometimes and
Speaker 3: get lost of it, and me me, I just tried
Speaker 3: to do the same thing to see where my game
Speaker 3: could bring me, if my game was good enough for
Speaker 3: the PGA Tour, and obviously, like there's the first few
Speaker 3: weeks show me that my game is probably good enough
Speaker 3: to play here follow time.
Speaker 1: I mean we're always, as instructors and coaches were always
Speaker 1: trying to tell players whatever level they're playing at, that's
Speaker 1: bigger than the one that they were just on that.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, it's still just golf.
Speaker 1: The stage is just bigger, the prize fund is bigger.
Speaker 1: There might be more good players, but everybody is. Whether
Speaker 1: you're playing on the Alps Tour or you're playing on
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour, the object and the game. They don't
Speaker 1: change the rules of the game once you get to
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour, right, It's not like, Okay, now I've
Speaker 1: got my PGA Tour card. Now the game has completely
Speaker 1: changed and now there's a new set of rules. It's
Speaker 1: the same golf that you've played your entire life. Is
Speaker 1: it hard to at times sometimes remember that because also
Speaker 1: now you're going to be in all of the designated events.
Speaker 1: As a winner, you're going to be in all of
Speaker 1: the majors, So you are now also going to be
Speaker 1: in that You were in a winners category on the
Speaker 1: DP World, but when you're in a winners category on
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour, you're playing a lot with the best
Speaker 1: players on the planet. You're playing with Scotti Scheffler, you're
Speaker 1: playing with Rory McElroy, You're playing with all of the superstars.
Speaker 1: So has it been in an adjustment and a learning curve.
Speaker 1: I know we're only four tournaments in, but there are
Speaker 1: people like yourself, Matthew. You've won your first PGA Tour event,
Speaker 1: in your fourth event on tour. There are rookies that
Speaker 1: have missed their first four cuts and are thinking, Okay,
Speaker 1: am I good enough to be out here? What's the
Speaker 1: comfort level that you've found so far and how do
Speaker 1: you think you can keep that going over the course
Speaker 1: of the rest of the year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we built a nice and the solid house,
Speaker 3: let's say. Or talking about my swing and the last
Speaker 3: few years, I had to change something technically with my
Speaker 3: coach made me better. I moved the ball left to right
Speaker 3: and I'm really confident about it. So I think the
Speaker 3: structure we build this is pretty nice. So I have
Speaker 3: I have no nothing in my head when I play.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty confident on what I have to do, the
Speaker 3: way I have to practice. Everything is pretty clear clear.
Speaker 3: I think for me, what was the biggest thing is
Speaker 3: to build a project around me, a path to the
Speaker 3: elite golf course, to the elite players in the world,
Speaker 3: and just follow follow that path. After every week, every
Speaker 3: every month, every year, we try to get better. But
Speaker 3: I always trying to have an objective look on my
Speaker 3: performance and see where I can I can improve and
Speaker 3: where I can be better, but not making like a
Speaker 3: revolution of something in my swing is just a slight
Speaker 3: evolutions every time. Like I was saying earlier to to
Speaker 3: young guys, I was double chipping too much when I
Speaker 3: was shortsighted, I was trying to be too cute and
Speaker 3: just passing this flag and giving me more opportunities to
Speaker 3: make a putt instead of chipping again made me make
Speaker 3: me one few few points on the golf course. And
Speaker 3: depending where you are when you are on the on
Speaker 3: the leader board in the tournament, it can make a
Speaker 3: massive difference on the season. To be fair, I am
Speaker 3: again today with you at Florida's with my putting coach also,
Speaker 3: and yeah, this is for me. This is where I'm
Speaker 3: I worked the most the last the last two years,
Speaker 3: putting has been pretty big. I was losing point on
Speaker 3: the green and now I think for the first four
Speaker 3: tournaments I'm like in the top five of the pgs
Speaker 3: or so. It's a big change.
Speaker 1: The changes that you've made to your putting, have they
Speaker 1: been technical, have they been green reading, Have they been
Speaker 1: a mental shift in the way you're doing it or
Speaker 1: is it a combination of the three.
Speaker 3: I think it is a slight combination. We have. We
Speaker 3: haven't changed my padding stroke. My coach, Youan Carson, is
Speaker 3: really on. Like we checked that the ball starts online
Speaker 3: with very very simple I use the tutor with like
Speaker 3: the two metal balls, and then we we check the
Speaker 3: aims really important. So every when everything is dial in
Speaker 3: with aims and ball start, we compete like we have
Speaker 3: so many games in terms of speed of green reading
Speaker 3: of shot puts and light puts. So it's a it's
Speaker 3: a mix of all these great drills, and I think
Speaker 3: it's great because there are so many one of them
Speaker 3: that you have to hold the put to finish the
Speaker 3: drill and it puts you that little extra pressure because
Speaker 3: you don't want to restart, and it's always good to
Speaker 3: to to get close to those pressure moments that you
Speaker 3: find on the on the on the golf course.
Speaker 2: You mentioned aiming.
Speaker 1: I think that is something that I think so many
Speaker 1: players that aren't great putters, they're thinking about a lot
Speaker 1: of things, right, they're working on a lot of things,
Speaker 1: but the way that they aim, and I think once
Speaker 1: you start working on trying to aim the putter consistently,
Speaker 1: you realize how quickly you can get off and how
Speaker 1: much that can affect what's going on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. I mean I took a week off
Speaker 3: after Pebble, not practicing and during time with family, and
Speaker 3: then I come back on the putting ring first day
Speaker 3: with my coach, and then we saw that my lines.
Speaker 3: My lines were terrible. I was aiming like one time left,
Speaker 3: one time right. That was terrible. And after two three
Speaker 3: days getting back to the basics on the drills we
Speaker 3: do for for alignments, you get banks right away. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I think it is key. I mean, if you're hundred
Speaker 3: percent sure that you aim where you want the ball
Speaker 3: to start, and then keep building confidence on that ball start.
Speaker 3: I think it's simple things which you create a lot
Speaker 3: of consistency into putting.
Speaker 1: You mentioned you changed shape from hitting more of a
Speaker 1: draw to hitting it a little bit more left to right,
Speaker 1: which is a little bit more of a fade. What
Speaker 1: was the reason behind that choice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I wasn't really a draw. I was also
Speaker 3: a fathe player, but I was missing a lot left,
Speaker 3: so I had to destructive double cross that nobody likes
Speaker 3: and pull it and then you've all end up into
Speaker 3: hazards and stuff. So I always I always played. I
Speaker 3: always put myself into like what makes me confident on
Speaker 3: the golf course. So me every time I missed right,
Speaker 3: I'm very confident about when I see my ball curving
Speaker 3: too much, It's good because then I know every time
Speaker 3: I'm going to end left or to albi or a
Speaker 3: short side pin, I know my ball if I missed
Speaker 3: the show is going to go too much right and
Speaker 3: on the open side. So this is what we changed
Speaker 3: with my Jamie. On a technical point, I was like
Speaker 3: a little bit like my elbow was out and my
Speaker 3: club was crossed and now is kind of in front
Speaker 3: of me and and off with an open face. So
Speaker 3: that really had me to swing the clement left and
Speaker 3: get that get that curve backed and very consistent.
Speaker 2: You come from a sporting family.
Speaker 1: Your father was a professional footballer soccer player for the Americans,
Speaker 1: and your mother is a golf instructor.
Speaker 2: How important was.
Speaker 1: The the background having a father that was a professional
Speaker 1: athlete and then also having a mother that is involved
Speaker 1: in looking at golf swings and helping players get better.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm very lucky. I think we I was born
Speaker 3: and raised into a family and the sports. Yeah, sports childhood.
Speaker 3: Let's say it was all about sport. I love every
Speaker 3: single sport I watched at and since I was kid,
Speaker 3: I dreamed about my dad when I when I was
Speaker 3: seeing him playing on the pitch, I was like, this
Speaker 3: is this is incredible. They always have been very supportive
Speaker 3: to me, very positive. I think that's key. When you
Speaker 3: raise your your your son and your your daughter with
Speaker 3: a lot of love and a lot of positivities, it
Speaker 3: really helps. They never been really intrusive with me in
Speaker 3: my career. They let me, let me makee some of
Speaker 3: the mistakes I could have done. And also when I'm
Speaker 3: doing great things, they never step in. They're really on
Speaker 3: my side and they're just trying to push me as
Speaker 3: much as I can. But with as I said, a
Speaker 3: lot of love and positivity, which is I think pretty big.
Speaker 1: For me coming from France. I mean there is a
Speaker 1: there is a long history of some very very good
Speaker 1: French golfers. I think unfortunately, the French golfer that people
Speaker 1: know the most just Sean Vandervelt for everything that happened
Speaker 1: at the Open it at Carnousti. But Thomas LaVey, I
Speaker 1: know has been a mentor of yours. I mean a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't forget. I mean Thomas LaVey was
Speaker 1: part of that playoff where Ernie Els won the Open
Speaker 1: Championship at Mirfield, Thomas played on a Ryder Cup.
Speaker 2: I mean Thomas had a very very good career.
Speaker 1: One of the guys that I always was surprised that
Speaker 1: didn't do better when I was on the European Tour
Speaker 1: back in the day, Raphael Jacqueline.
Speaker 2: I mean Raphael had a.
Speaker 1: Beautiful golf swing, right, I mean he really hit the
Speaker 1: golf ball well. Gregory Havevrey made some big strides and
Speaker 1: played good one year at the US Open. Coming from France,
Speaker 1: which a lot of people don't see is necessarily a massive,
Speaker 1: massive golf country, do you feel like this is an
Speaker 1: opportunity for you, because I think it's always important. Everybody,
Speaker 1: I think is a young golfer, their idols are tiger Woods,
Speaker 1: the greats of the games. But I think it's very
Speaker 1: important for people that are from countries to be able
Speaker 1: to have role models that you can say, listen, I'm
Speaker 1: from Bordeaux, Matthews from Borer. He made it to the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour. That's a role model that I can touch
Speaker 1: and feel because he lives the same kind of life
Speaker 1: that I live, but the same type of upbringing. What
Speaker 1: role do you feel like this win for you? I
Speaker 1: mean it's the first win they count. There was a
Speaker 1: French person that won the Open Championship, which messages yeah,
Speaker 1: nineteen o seven is the last time someone from France
Speaker 1: won a tournament on the PGA Tour. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: a huge feather in your cap. But it's also I'm
Speaker 1: sure a responsibility for you now to say, listen, I
Speaker 1: can now fly the flag for French Cup. We're going
Speaker 1: into an Olympic year. I mean, you now have a
Speaker 1: legit chance to represent your country for the Olympics. It's
Speaker 1: got to just be an amazing time in your life
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is really exciting. I mean I think it is.
Speaker 3: I would love to do this represent my country, not
Speaker 3: only for Olympics, but trying to get the best out
Speaker 3: of me and that some young people in friends can
Speaker 3: look at me as a I don't consider myself yet
Speaker 3: as one of those big champs, but yeah, if I
Speaker 3: can be a motto for them, like someone they dream
Speaker 3: about and they want to achieve the same thing that
Speaker 3: I do or even better, that would be fantastic for me.
Speaker 3: I think we had Tony Parker in basketball, and we
Speaker 3: saw many great basketball player from front they came to
Speaker 3: America and they succeed. So yeah, I think we have
Speaker 3: a lot of talented guy. Maybe fourteen players right now
Speaker 3: on DPR two, which is pretty big for a nation
Speaker 3: which is I think not a very golf nation for now,
Speaker 3: but it is big. I mean after it's just about
Speaker 3: creating the opportunity to come play here in America and
Speaker 3: try to do your best. But I think we have
Speaker 3: a very nice young generation and if I can be
Speaker 3: like a model for them, it's I'll do it with
Speaker 3: pleasure and I will try to help the young guys
Speaker 3: in France as much as kin forshure.
Speaker 1: You took advantage of the partnership between the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: and the europe and the DP World Tour to where
Speaker 1: now ten of the top players from DP World now
Speaker 1: then get PGA Tour cards.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of.
Speaker 1: People that that that think that's really good. There are
Speaker 1: people that look at you could look at that is
Speaker 1: the European the DP World Tour is going to have
Speaker 1: their ten best players go to the PGA Tour, the
Speaker 1: role that the European Tour, the European Tour played in
Speaker 1: your development. Now that you're playing full time on the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour, now that you will be in all the
Speaker 1: designated events, you'll be in all the majors, how much
Speaker 1: do you want to continue to support the dp World
Speaker 1: Tour in future?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean for me, it's a it's a dream
Speaker 3: to come in America and play. I've dreamed about it's
Speaker 3: since so many years. This is where I'm going to
Speaker 3: say so with my family. This is where I want
Speaker 3: to compete the most because the best player in the
Speaker 3: world I are here, no doubt. But I love the
Speaker 3: European Tour. I had some fantastic years seven years over there.
Speaker 3: I want them once in Spain, and it is a
Speaker 3: nice tour. Things maybe can be done a little bit
Speaker 3: better compared to PGA Tour, which is for me, a
Speaker 3: massive organization. But I love the tour. I love where
Speaker 3: I come from and I never forget that. So definitely
Speaker 3: in my schedule, I have some spaces open and available
Speaker 3: for some of the tournament there, and I will keep
Speaker 3: going back to Europe to to compete at some points
Speaker 3: every year for sure.
Speaker 1: The other massive thing for you, Matthew is from a
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup standpoint, it's a hell of a lot easier
Speaker 1: to play good in the US on the PGA Tour
Speaker 1: and make a European.
Speaker 2: Ryder Cup team. That is that is a that is
Speaker 2: a massive opportunity.
Speaker 1: Not to say that it works out because you could
Speaker 1: come out, but having one already on the PGA Tour,
Speaker 1: you know that if you just playing halfway decent over
Speaker 1: the next two years, you are going to have a
Speaker 1: legit chance to represent Europe at Bethpage Black for the
Speaker 1: European Ryder Cup team has the Ryder Cup and having
Speaker 1: an opportunity to play on one of those for Europe.
Speaker 1: Has that been a goal of yours as well?
Speaker 3: Yes, So it is not a goal that I set
Speaker 3: up like this year or the years before. It's like,
Speaker 3: let's say a lifetime goal, I think, because.
Speaker 2: I don't think. My point is it's if you're not
Speaker 2: one of the.
Speaker 1: Big superstars in European golf, it's hard to make a
Speaker 1: Ryder Cup team, right. There's a lot we saw that
Speaker 1: this year. There's a lot that goes into it at
Speaker 1: the back end when the picks come out they tend
Speaker 1: to look at guys that are playing in the US.
Speaker 1: Adrian moronc is a great example. I mean Adrian it
Speaker 1: is he's probably won four times in the last eighteen months.
Speaker 1: He won a DP World tournament at Marcos Simoni where
Speaker 1: the Ryder Cup was, and they went with guys at
Speaker 1: one had been on Ryder Cups before, but they pretty
Speaker 1: much went with people that were playing on the PGA Tour.
Speaker 3: True.
Speaker 1: So for you, now you're going to be in all
Speaker 1: of these events, you're exempt for two years. This gives
Speaker 1: you now an opportunity. Even in February of twenty twenty four,
Speaker 1: you can say, Okay, this can now become a real,
Speaker 1: real goal. This isn't a lifetime goal that everybody that
Speaker 1: plays golf that is a pro in Europe says, yeah,
Speaker 1: one day, I'd really love to play on a Ryder Cup.
Speaker 1: And you and I both know the majority of people
Speaker 1: that say that will never even.
Speaker 2: Have the opportunities.
Speaker 1: You now have a legit chance to By the end
Speaker 1: of this year, you could basically solidify your position on
Speaker 1: the Ryder Cup team. By the end of twenty four
Speaker 1: and twenty five, you're just basically get measured for the
Speaker 1: close because you already know you're gonna be on the
Speaker 1: flight over.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would be amazing. As I say, it's a
Speaker 3: lifetime goal, which is kind of changed right now. No,
Speaker 3: I think it's just that the PGA to give give
Speaker 3: you more values. As we said, we compete every week
Speaker 3: against the best player in the world. And I think
Speaker 3: mister Lucdonald is looking closely at this. I think for sure,
Speaker 3: when you have only on some of the deeper world
Speaker 3: Tour even generally have maybe five six guys playing which
Speaker 3: are the top hundred in the world on every tournament,
Speaker 3: is not good enough to see if you can compete
Speaker 3: as in a high level golf tournament with a lot
Speaker 3: of good players and a lot of pressure, you know.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it makes the PGA to has more value.
Speaker 3: It makes you more legit. Let's say, if you have
Speaker 3: good results here for sure one hundred percent. And I
Speaker 3: mean the captains they've played in both in Europe in America,
Speaker 3: so they know what they are doing. So if they
Speaker 3: kind of tends to set someone who plays more in
Speaker 3: America and who plays good over there, I think it's
Speaker 3: for a reason. And yeah, for sure a Ryder Cup
Speaker 3: could be could be big for me. I dreamed about
Speaker 3: it so many times, but now I like to set
Speaker 3: up goals which are like in front of me, not
Speaker 3: too far away. So if I just keep getting a
Speaker 3: little bit better a person better every every month and
Speaker 3: every every year, great things will happen.
Speaker 2: I mean this, I mean we're always looking at the
Speaker 2: start of the year. As coaches.
Speaker 1: We're always saying, Okay, you've got the West Coast swing,
Speaker 1: and then you'll have the Florida Swing, and the guys
Speaker 1: that get out to a really good start on the
Speaker 1: West Coast, you know, those are the ones that again
Speaker 1: you're looking. It's hard not to look forward. But you're
Speaker 1: currently leading the FedEx Cup. You win in San Diego,
Speaker 1: you go to Pebble Beach, it's rain shortened, Okay, you
Speaker 1: finish third.
Speaker 2: Again, we're five six weeks in.
Speaker 1: By the time we get to Florida, there's probably going
Speaker 1: to be a good chance that you're still going to
Speaker 1: be leading the FedEx.
Speaker 2: So my point behind that is, just.
Speaker 1: Like the Ryder Cup conversation, you get off to a
Speaker 1: fast start, how have you had to adjust and how
Speaker 1: are you going to manage your expectations? Because when you
Speaker 1: teed it up in Hawaii, your expectations on what you
Speaker 1: thought twenty four was going to be like are a
Speaker 1: hell of a lot different than what your expectation now
Speaker 1: because now, yeah you want to win. Yeah you want
Speaker 1: to play in all the majors. Yeah you want to
Speaker 1: contend in majors. Those are all dreams and goals and
Speaker 1: things you want. But the dream has become reality. You're
Speaker 1: now in every golf tournament for the next two years.
Speaker 1: That really matters, right, You're in all the majors. And
Speaker 1: you know, Matthew that confidence is so important. I always
Speaker 1: say this on the podcast. Brooks has won five majors.
Speaker 1: Everyone asks them which is the hardest to win. He says,
Speaker 1: the hardest one to win is the first one, because
Speaker 1: after that you kind of.
Speaker 2: Know what to expect. Do you feel like now when
Speaker 2: you get.
Speaker 1: Into contention having one, Yes, you've won in Europe before.
Speaker 1: Yes you won in the Challenge Tour in the app store.
Speaker 1: There's a big difference between winning and then winning on
Speaker 1: the future, and then the other thing is on one
Speaker 1: of the hardest golf courses, on one of the best
Speaker 1: golf courses they have on the PGA Tour. Tiger's won
Speaker 1: their a trillion times John Rams won majors there Tigers
Speaker 1: won a major. That I mean, some of the best
Speaker 1: players in professional golf have won on a really difficult
Speaker 1: golf course. That has to give you tremendous confidence moving forward.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And the most important for me gives confidence
Speaker 3: on my work, like what we put in to work
Speaker 3: with my physical coach, with my putting coach, with my
Speaker 3: technical coach, with everybody in my team. It is a
Speaker 3: big reworld when you win, because it shows that what
Speaker 3: you've done in the past, it shows you that it worked.
Speaker 3: So building that confidence with my team it's even bigger
Speaker 3: for me because when we know everything is clear, we
Speaker 3: are we are working in the right direction, gives me
Speaker 3: even more confidence. So so that was the thing after Yes,
Speaker 3: the most important is what you have between you two years.
Speaker 3: Expectations might change slightly. I'm not gonna hide it, but
Speaker 3: as I said, we have a good team. I think
Speaker 3: which is good for me is like to settle set
Speaker 3: up some nice some nice how you say, some nice goals.
Speaker 3: I'm always I'm not reading two points or like rankings
Speaker 3: and stuff. I'm all on me what I have to
Speaker 3: do to get better every day. And yeah, by doing
Speaker 3: those small about what I have to work on and
Speaker 3: stuff like this. This is where I'm I think I
Speaker 3: will create more opportunities in the future for on maybe
Speaker 3: majors of or Rider Cup stuff.
Speaker 1: And the other thing now is when you get your
Speaker 1: next opportunity, which you will have more opportunities this year.
Speaker 1: You know that there are going to be tournaments where
Speaker 1: you're going to be one of those four or five
Speaker 1: guys on the back nine on Sunday that are right
Speaker 1: around it. Does the mindset now go why not me again?
Speaker 2: I mean why not me?
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you've always thought that you were good
Speaker 1: enough to win, right, but until you actually do it
Speaker 1: and then you went on the PGA Tour against the
Speaker 1: best players in the world on an iconic, very tough
Speaker 1: golf course, the thought process has gotta be I can
Speaker 1: do this again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. And this is already what I
Speaker 3: felt a little bit in the tory. I said, I
Speaker 3: want one in Europe that I know how my nage,
Speaker 3: my days, my emotions. So I just tried to repeat
Speaker 3: same process and see how my process was working overseas,
Speaker 3: and it worked. So next time, just trying to repeat
Speaker 3: the same thing but with maybe a little more confidence,
Speaker 3: and now I know that because I've done it once,
Speaker 3: I got a little bit freedom, let's say in my mind,
Speaker 3: and that maybe I could be dangerous in some of
Speaker 3: the last round this season.
Speaker 2: Let's go back to that final round.
Speaker 1: You were talking to some of our juniors here and
Speaker 1: the final round you started too, I think two shots back.
Speaker 1: You were in the second to last group or the
Speaker 1: last group. You're in the last group, and you have
Speaker 1: the absolute dreams start to winning your first PGA Tour event.
Speaker 1: You bogue the first hole. But I heard you say
Speaker 1: something I thought was very interesting to the juniors that
Speaker 1: sometimes that can be a good thing. How can bogey
Speaker 1: in the first hole when you're trying, when you're two
Speaker 1: shots back and you're in the last group, and you
Speaker 1: know you're going to be playing a really difficult golf
Speaker 1: course under very difficult conditions. It's cold out there in
Speaker 1: San Diego, it's been wet, it's been raining. It's not
Speaker 1: like it's perfect conditions.
Speaker 2: What was the mindset and why is it? Why did
Speaker 2: that help you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is what I said to Mike Kelly. I said,
Speaker 3: it is not too bad to start with a bogie,
Speaker 3: because then I am already like deep in the battle,
Speaker 3: I will have to fight back. And sometimes it's better
Speaker 3: because when you start some of the rounds and you
Speaker 3: scale to me, then this is where you started making
Speaker 3: more and more mistakes. And me, I made the mistakes
Speaker 3: on the first so I was like, Okay, now we
Speaker 3: have to fight back. And so I had to play
Speaker 3: every shot very committed and very with a lot of
Speaker 3: energy and positivity in my mind. And it really helped me.
Speaker 3: Like every time I show up on the golf course,
Speaker 3: whatever it's the first round, all the last round, I
Speaker 3: always tried to beat the golf course. I think if
Speaker 3: you get it every time all year long, you're going
Speaker 3: to do great. And that's my mindset. It's really me
Speaker 3: against the golf course more than me against the field.
Speaker 3: And yeah, bogging bugging that first aul was like, okay,
Speaker 3: is one up on me. Let's trying to chase that
Speaker 3: golf course and bit him.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, you followed up the
Speaker 1: bogie off the first with four more birdies on the
Speaker 1: front right. Yeah, and then you had a lot of
Speaker 1: stretches of pars. The good thing that I think you
Speaker 1: were I think what won you the golf tournament was
Speaker 1: the way that.
Speaker 2: You played the really tough stretches a toy.
Speaker 1: Once you make that turn, you go down and then
Speaker 1: you've got the It really starts at the par three.
Speaker 1: What's at the twelfth or the thirteenth. Yeah, and then
Speaker 1: you're going straight out to the ocean. You've got a
Speaker 1: par four that if you missed the fairway, you're making bogie,
Speaker 1: then you've got a par five.
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: The great thing about Tory, and I think why everybody
Speaker 1: likes it's a little bit like Riviera.
Speaker 2: Is you can't hide. You have to.
Speaker 1: The golf course demands what shots you have to hit,
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of shots from the middle
Speaker 1: of the fairway. There there are a lot of shots
Speaker 1: from the t box where you just know you have
Speaker 1: to hit the fairway. It might not look penal, but
Speaker 1: you know that if you miss the fairway or if
Speaker 1: you miss a green, you're struggling to make a bogie.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is like this Attori. Every time you miss
Speaker 3: the fairway, you're in trouble. It's pretty much you're gonna
Speaker 3: make a bogie. So yeah, that golf course, I think
Speaker 3: it's pushing you to show the best, which is great.
Speaker 3: It's a golf course where instead of trying to keep
Speaker 3: the ball in play, you have to hit the right
Speaker 3: shot at the right time. And this is nice because
Speaker 3: sometimes on those last round when you can be stressed,
Speaker 3: you kind of hundred play. Let's say you're trying to
Speaker 3: be too cute to keep the ball hit. Maybe the
Speaker 3: ball a little bit softer and maybe too much in
Speaker 3: the middle of the green and stuff like this, and
Speaker 3: it makes you play like so so, and that golf
Speaker 3: course really push you to hit the best shots on
Speaker 3: every opportunities. And I think this is what I like
Speaker 3: the most because I failed two times losing tournament on
Speaker 3: tough ones, and that time I was like, Okay, that's
Speaker 3: a tough one. It's going to be tough for everyone.
Speaker 3: If you want to succeed on that golf course today,
Speaker 3: you will have to to hit some pretty good shots
Speaker 3: and you have to aim every every time you hate
Speaker 3: a shot, you would have to him to do a
Speaker 3: good shot and not like just an okay shot.
Speaker 1: And I heard one of the things that, again I
Speaker 1: thought was really very relevant for the juniors listening. You
Speaker 1: told them that one of the differences between what you
Speaker 1: did at Tori when you won is you'd had chances
Speaker 1: to win on DP World before in the final round
Speaker 1: you were leading late and you let it slip away
Speaker 1: because maybe you were trying not to lose and trying
Speaker 1: to play too conservative. And you mentioned that the mindset
Speaker 1: on Sunday was Okay, I'm trying to win my first
Speaker 1: PGA Tour event. I've got to go out and try
Speaker 1: and win this, win the golf tournament today, as opposed
Speaker 1: to try and go out and try and not lose.
Speaker 1: What is the difference between in your mind when you're
Speaker 1: in that mindset of Okay, I'm just trying not to
Speaker 1: hit a bad shot. I'm just trying not to get
Speaker 1: in too much trouble here, and then the difference between
Speaker 1: you say Okay, I see my target. I have a
Speaker 1: very good idea of what I'm trying to do here.
Speaker 1: And one of the things again that you said to
Speaker 1: the juniors that I really liked you said on Sunday
Speaker 1: at Tory at the Farmers you tried to make committed
Speaker 1: golf swings.
Speaker 2: What does that mean to you as the player?
Speaker 3: That's key. I think when you try to not lose
Speaker 3: or not make mistake, this is where you make the most.
Speaker 3: So everything you could do is like control your process,
Speaker 3: control your mind and trying to hit the best shot
Speaker 3: every day, every time. And me that was not playing
Speaker 3: Tory as a very tough golf course because I had
Speaker 3: to hit the ball far let's say, straight and to
Speaker 3: those great shots. If you are in the golf course
Speaker 3: which is a little bit more open, a little bit
Speaker 3: easier when everybody drops make lots of already, it could
Speaker 3: be could be very different. Like you know, it's going
Speaker 3: to be tough, and the only way you can win
Speaker 3: that trophy is like stepping in and really go get
Speaker 3: it instead of not trying to lose it. And that's
Speaker 3: that's a big difference. Mentally.
Speaker 1: You're twenty six in the world now. When you turn
Speaker 1: pro in twenty and thirteen, you were ranked almost close
Speaker 1: almost close to one thousand.
Speaker 2: I mean you were eight hundred and ninety in the
Speaker 2: in the world amateur rankings. So so how'd you do it?
Speaker 1: Because there are so many players, like you said, not
Speaker 1: everybody is Rory McElroy, right, Not everybody comes out and
Speaker 1: has immediate success. We know the players that do that,
Speaker 1: but there are a lot more players Matthew, like yourself
Speaker 1: that it has been a longer journey it's been you know,
Speaker 1: I say this all the time, the ten thousand.
Speaker 2: Hour rule, the ten year rule. I am literally.
Speaker 1: I started working on the European Tour in two thousand
Speaker 1: and two. Trevor Wilman was the first player I worked with,
Speaker 1: and in twenty and twelve I was working with Ernie
Speaker 1: Els when he won the Open Championship. Lisab it was
Speaker 1: ten years you turned pro into twenty and thirteen and
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty four you win. So a lot of
Speaker 1: people look at that and think, oh, it's an overnight success.
Speaker 2: They haven't seen the ten years of work that you
Speaker 2: put in. What is the one thing over.
Speaker 1: The last decade that you've done that you think is
Speaker 1: done that has led you to this point?
Speaker 3: Now, never let it go. I mean, it's all about work.
Speaker 3: It's all about discipline. It's not about working out for
Speaker 3: fifteen days and stop a week or two. It is
Speaker 3: it is consistency, Like if you were it's better to
Speaker 3: work a little bit every day than the very harmful
Speaker 3: fifteen days and then do whatever you want for like
Speaker 3: ten days and kind of losing go with friends and
Speaker 3: party and stuff. The thing is, I always wanted to
Speaker 3: succeed in in my sport. I always wanted to to
Speaker 3: just become the best version of me, and uh, it
Speaker 3: is small effort that you do every day that at
Speaker 3: the end makes a really big difference compared to to
Speaker 3: to other ones. Also, I always planned myself like on
Speaker 3: a carrier point of view, something which is gonna last
Speaker 3: long and not something which has to come now or
Speaker 3: just tomorrow. So I think this way of thinking for me,
Speaker 3: because I was not the best amateur player when I
Speaker 3: was young, took me a lot of took me away,
Speaker 3: a lot of weight and expectations, and I always felt
Speaker 3: like I had time to build that carrier. But at
Speaker 3: the same time I was working a lot for for
Speaker 3: several several years.
Speaker 2: Is it hard when you? I mean, I think you
Speaker 2: you sound like.
Speaker 1: You are a fairly honest evaluation of kind of yourself
Speaker 1: and your game. And I think there are a lot
Speaker 1: of players and a lot of young players out there listening.
Speaker 1: I think it's important to be honest with yourself and
Speaker 1: to say listen, Okay, I don't necessarily have some of
Speaker 1: the tools that some other players have, but that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean that I can't still have a really great career
Speaker 1: because I'm going to have to do these things because
Speaker 1: I don't have maybe the distance of someone like a
Speaker 1: Rory McElroy. I don't maybe have the putting stroke of
Speaker 1: someone that putts lights out. So do you feel like
Speaker 1: the fact that when you turned pro that you weren't
Speaker 1: higher ranked, that you weren't turning pro with more kind
Speaker 1: of buzz and fanfare. Do you think that maybe helped
Speaker 1: you because you knew you had to work extra hard
Speaker 1: to get to that next level.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I always like to be the underdog because when I
Speaker 3: play with people which are better than me, I want
Speaker 3: to bid them so bad. So by wanting to to
Speaker 3: beat them so bad makes me be a better player.
Speaker 3: I work harder. I try to to to reduce that gap.
Speaker 3: And this is why I dreamed about America so much,
Speaker 3: because tomorrow, let's say, if I go on the golf course,
Speaker 3: I'm going to have like guys playing with me who
Speaker 3: want majors, who want PG Tours, who made Ryder Cups
Speaker 3: and stuff like this, and getting out there and get
Speaker 3: my eyes kicked a lot I will enjoy. I will
Speaker 3: enjoy that a lot. I mean, when you're home and
Speaker 3: you play with young guns from your golf club and
Speaker 3: you beat them it's it's always fun, but this is
Speaker 3: not where where you learn. The learning process is failure.
Speaker 3: Like if you fail a lot, you learn a lot.
Speaker 3: And getting your house kicked is a bad feeling, but
Speaker 3: it's pretty good for my game.
Speaker 1: Lastly, how much are you looking forward to your first
Speaker 1: real not the co sanctioned one, but when you go
Speaker 1: back to a real deep world tour event, being able
Speaker 1: to walk onto that driving range as a winner on
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour. I mean, it's gotta just go. It's
Speaker 1: going to be a really cool because you know you.
Speaker 1: I mean, when somebody wins on the PGA Tour that
Speaker 1: plays full time in Europe, when they come back to Europe,
Speaker 1: you look at them differently and you see them differently, right,
Speaker 1: You're like, Okay, he's won in America now, I mean
Speaker 1: that that's.
Speaker 2: That's pretty good. You're going to be one of those guys. Now.
Speaker 1: It must be really exciting for you to think about
Speaker 1: when you go back that everybody's going to be like
Speaker 1: you made it. You you came from where we came from,
Speaker 1: and you made.
Speaker 3: It to be. To be fair, it's it's really big
Speaker 3: for for me getting all the respect from players. Guys,
Speaker 3: they they know how how tough it is on every
Speaker 3: tournaments we've played, so every time someone comes to me
Speaker 3: and say congrats, it's it's massive for me because they
Speaker 3: know how hard it was to get there. Some of
Speaker 3: my friends on me, like in Frenzy was quite might
Speaker 3: for a few days. Everybody was so happy for me,
Speaker 3: and I had not the chance to go back in
Speaker 3: my hometown and see all these people also back on
Speaker 3: tour and chair some moments with the other French players.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think it's going to be pretty especial
Speaker 3: going back to Europe, and for sure we'd be later
Speaker 3: this season after the FedEx, but it would be it
Speaker 3: would be awesome time to share with them.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm just really excited to watch kind of what
Speaker 1: you do because I really do think that this is
Speaker 1: going to be a springboard for your career. And I'm
Speaker 1: I'm going to say it now, I am going to
Speaker 1: be absolutely shocked if you are not one of the
Speaker 1: players playing against the United States in beth Page at
Speaker 1: the Ryder Cup and the next time we do it,
Speaker 1: because I think you've got the type of game to
Speaker 1: do it, and I'm excited to see what you could do.
Speaker 1: Just going to put this out there when when you
Speaker 1: asked if if you could come up and practice, there
Speaker 1: are ulterior motives for me allowing this. You are from Bordeaux.
Speaker 1: I'm just going to put that out there. Now you
Speaker 1: are from Bordeaux. They make a good red wine. The
Speaker 1: guy on this side of the table is a fan
Speaker 1: of good red wine. So you are always welcome back anytime.
Speaker 2: Just bring gifts.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no problem, And next time i'd come, I will
Speaker 3: bring some good vodolad the wine and we would enjoy
Speaker 3: it together for sure.
Speaker 1: Great to talk to you, Thanks for taking the time,
Speaker 1: Thanks to clut So really cool talk there with a
Speaker 1: player that listen. At the start of this year, you
Speaker 1: have no idea what your first year on the PGA
Speaker 1: Tour is going to be. But to get a win early,
Speaker 1: I think that is going to set Matthew up in
Speaker 1: a very very different mindset than maybe he had at
Speaker 1: the start of the year, because now he will he's
Speaker 1: a good enough player to where he will get in
Speaker 1: contention in some more tournaments. And if you've won one
Speaker 1: before already this year, you've got to think, hey, it
Speaker 1: can be me again this week. But a cool story
Speaker 1: and one of those guys that We're going to see
Speaker 1: this right, We're going to see the top ten best
Speaker 1: players off a DP world every year get full cards
Speaker 1: on the PGA Tour, and it's going to be very
Speaker 1: very interesting to see what those players do it. Matthew
Speaker 1: has taken massive advantage of it and really cool talk,
Speaker 1: and I'm excited to see what he does in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty four. Rate review, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Son of a Butcher comes to you every Wednesday. We
Speaker 1: will see you next week.