1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine, Hey fam Today on the bright Side, Grammy 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: nominated singer songwriter Jewel is here. She's got a brand 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: new art exhibit and a new summer tour. She's talking 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:16,479 Speaker 1: about why making the human choice is always the right choice, 5 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: and why in the end, only kindness matters. It's Tuesday, 6 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: May twenty eighth. I'm Simone Voice, I'm. 7 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,639 Speaker 2: Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side from Hello 8 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 2: Sunshine Simon. Jewel burst onto the scene in the nineties, 9 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 2: and she changed the game. 10 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 3: She was really an outlier. 11 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 2: There was this cookie cutter box that people had to 12 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 2: fit in with musicianship and artistry, and kind of like 13 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 2: Adele did about a decade ago, she changed things for people. 14 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: I think the common thread between Jewel and Adele is heartbreak, pain, 15 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: life experience. Like they both brought that grown woman vibe. 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: I mean, I remember when Yes Well grit, when Jewel 17 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: broke out. I mean, she brought this emotionality and texture 18 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: to her voice that felt just more mature in a 19 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: lot of ways than the bubblegum pop of that day. 20 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: I mean, songs like you Were Meant for Me? Who 21 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: Will Save Your Soul? Standing Still? Even the yodling like 22 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: she brought a whole new technique to the game. 23 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 2: Yes, and she had been yodling in bars since she 24 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 2: was eight years old, but she became a household name 25 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 2: with her twelve time platinum album Pieces of You. I 26 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 2: remember listening to that in my mom's car as a 27 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 2: little girl. I was aware that Jewel grew up in 28 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 2: Alaska on a homestead, but the heartbreak of her childhood 29 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: was something I didn't know. 30 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 1: The depths of Yeah, I mean, she experienced the unimaginable 31 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: parental abuse, homelessness, poverty. She left her home at the 32 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: age of fifteen and eventually got a scholarship to Interlock 33 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: and Center for the Arts. It's this prestigious boarding school 34 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: in Michigan for artists in high. 35 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 3: School, That's exactly it. 36 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 2: And she couldn't afford to go home during breaks, so 37 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 2: she hitchhiked around the country and to Mexico, and it 38 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 2: was around that time that she wrote her first hit, 39 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: who Will Save Your Soul? 40 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: Her resilience, to me is just mind blowing, and I 41 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: think that a lot of people probably aren't aware of 42 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: how committed she's been to providing mental health resources for others, 43 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: which I mean, she's done that for nearly two decades 44 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: through her Children's Foundation, she was part of. 45 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 2: The mental health conversation even before it was a conversation. 46 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 2: So while you were away on your retreat, I had 47 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 2: the opportunity to sit down with Jewel. She's debuting The Portal, 48 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 2: which is an immersive art exhibit centered on wellness and 49 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 2: it's just in time for Mental Health Awareness Month. It's 50 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 2: on display at the Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art 51 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 2: in Bentonville, Arkansas, right now through July twenty eighth, and 52 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 2: it includes companion music and EP titled The Portal, which 53 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 2: will be out this July. Simon, I'm excited to share 54 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 2: this conversation with you. 55 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: I cannot wait to listen along with all of our 56 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: bright Side best. After the Break, Danielle's interview with the 57 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: One and Only Jewel. 58 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 2: We're back and we're here with Grammy nominated singer songwriter 59 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 2: Jewel Jewel. 60 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 4: Welcome to the bright Side. Hi, thanks for having me, Jewel. 61 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 2: My mom had a cherry red jeep Grand Cherokee when 62 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 2: I was growing up, and pieces of you would play 63 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 2: on repeat in the car. I knew every single one 64 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 2: of your songs before I even knew what the words meant. 65 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: I could really feel you. I could feel your music 66 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 2: even at such a young age, And I think many 67 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: people could say the same thing. 68 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 3: What was the soundtrack of your youth? 69 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 4: The wind and the leaves, the sound of seals in 70 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 4: the bay? 71 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 5: Music. 72 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 4: My dad was a songwriter. My whole family sang, so 73 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 4: there was definitely a lot of music around. We didn't 74 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 4: have a tough division, and so it was quiet. It 75 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 4: was quiet compared to other people's lives, but in that 76 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 4: quiet was a symphony of life that made me feel 77 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 4: incredibly comforted. 78 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 2: When I was young, I was blown away when I 79 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 2: learned about everything that you had to overcome to become 80 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 2: one of the most successful artists of your generation, from 81 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 2: living in your car to selling millions of records. Your 82 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 2: path was paved with one challenge after another, and one 83 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 2: way you found your way through it all was music. 84 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 2: But how else were you able to find stability? 85 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 4: I moved out at fifteen, and I knew before I 86 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 4: decided to do it, I was contemplating if I should 87 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 4: do it, and I knew it was quite dangerous to 88 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 4: move out. Statistically that doesn't work out well, and I 89 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 4: wanted to be very clear eyed about the type of 90 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 4: danger that I was stepping into and was that risk 91 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 4: worth leaving a home that I didn't really enjoy living in. 92 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 4: And I felt like that meant I had to have 93 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 4: a plan. I'd been reading a lot of philosophy at 94 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 4: the time, and maybe that's what made me sort of 95 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 4: very logical maybe or tactical about it. And so I 96 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 4: realized what I had to do was learn a new vocabulary, 97 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 4: a new emotional way of relating to the world. It 98 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 4: got me so curious, like how do you learn a 99 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 4: new emotional language? It felt ambitious and it felt kind 100 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 4: of exciting, and it also felt clear, like I had 101 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 4: a clear mission now, and that meant I had to 102 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 4: study and be observant and be curious. And I started 103 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 4: by watching other people's interactions and I looked at those 104 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 4: as if that was grammar. The way that parent how 105 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 4: to that child, the way that person didn't get angry 106 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 4: at that person. Those were all lexicons, pieces to put 107 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 4: together in a way of speaking, if you will. And 108 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 4: so I set off sort of at that time in 109 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 4: my life with that being my mission. Was happiness a 110 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 4: learnable skill? Was it a teachable skill? Could I get 111 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 4: to know my nature? If my nurture was really bad. 112 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: You were talking about sphere virtual emptiness in nineteen ninety five, 113 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 2: way before this was part of the zeitgeist. How did 114 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,479 Speaker 2: music and writing save you? 115 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 4: My dad grew up in a really abusive household, and 116 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 4: he wrote a beautiful book called Sun of a Midnight Land, 117 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 4: and one of the things he said in it is 118 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 4: I was given the sickness, but I was also given 119 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 4: the cure. And I think that's true for a lot 120 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 4: of us. All of our lives, all of our hearts 121 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 4: are destined to be broken. It doesn't matter for poor 122 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 4: or rich, we're famous or we're homeless. All of our 123 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 4: hearts are destined to be broken at some point. It's 124 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 4: what we do with the pieces that make us extraordinary. 125 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 4: And so it's each of our jobs to learn to 126 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 4: become alchemists, to turn the poison into medicine. And we 127 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 4: all have some kind of resource available to us. And 128 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 4: so for me, writing really was that I had been 129 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 4: writing a long time before I started writing songs and 130 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 4: singing my whole life. And so when I couldn't afford 131 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 4: to go back home during the winter breaks at this 132 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 4: boarding school, I was at my idea of lemonade was 133 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 4: hitchhiking across the country. I couldn't learn other people's songs 134 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 4: because I didn't know enough chords, and it was just 135 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 4: a lot easier to improvise and make up lyrics. And 136 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 4: it was my first time seeing pop culture in America, 137 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 4: and you know, reality TV wasn't a thing yet. And 138 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,239 Speaker 4: I do find that really interesting that my very first 139 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 4: line was people living their lives for you on TV. 140 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 4: They say they're better than you, and you agree. I 141 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 4: was raised without a television, and suddenly I was in America, 142 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 4: where there was worship, There was a hero worship, there 143 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 4: was worship of. 144 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 5: People on television. 145 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 4: And I know America was found out on getting away 146 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 4: from a royal system, from kings and queens, but celebrities 147 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 4: in America became the new kings and queens. And I 148 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 4: could see the writing on the wall. I could see 149 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 4: it happening already. And this in myself, lack of accountability, 150 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 4: of nobody's coming for me, Am, I coming for me, AM, 151 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 4: I really showing up for my am, I copping out. 152 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 4: I wanted to learn how to be more accountable, and 153 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 4: it took me longer than that moment. 154 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 3: What do you mean copping out. 155 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 4: I was shoplifting a lot, and granted it did help 156 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 4: me survive. There were definitely things about it that helped 157 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 4: food and things like that, but a lot of the 158 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 4: shoplifting was just to medicate my anxiety. It's also a 159 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 4: really entitled thing to do, to steal, but I had 160 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 4: a chip on my shoulder. I felt like the world 161 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 4: owed me. I felt like I was cheated and not 162 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 4: that those things aren't true. What I started to realize 163 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 4: and realize with more time, is that a lot of 164 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 4: us have many good reasons not to be happy, But 165 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:44,359 Speaker 4: will you let those be excuses? 166 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 5: That's where the rubber meets the road. 167 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 4: That's where no matter how bad your life is, no 168 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 4: matter how betrayed and hurt you've been, it's still up 169 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 4: to you to learn how to be happy because nobody 170 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 4: cares but you. You have the most investment in it, 171 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 4: and me sitting around and saying poor me doesn't help it. 172 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 4: All it does is hurt me. What am I willing 173 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 4: to do about it? And so writing whole Savior Soul 174 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 4: was about watching where I thought maybe culture was heading disconnection, 175 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 4: asking and expecting other people to help us when we 176 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 4: are absolutely unwilling to be fully accountable to our own 177 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 4: If you want to say salvation, it's a strong word, 178 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:26,719 Speaker 4: but in a way that. 179 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 2: Self reliance is just such a huge through line in 180 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 2: your story. You got a million dollar record deal and 181 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 2: you turned it down and you were still living in 182 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 2: your car. 183 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 3: Why did you turn it down? 184 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 4: I ended a homeless because I wouldn't have sex with 185 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 4: a boss. He wouldn't give me my paycheck, so I 186 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 4: couldn't pay my rent, so got kicked out sort of 187 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 4: living in my car. I was having really bad panic attacks. 188 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 4: I was getting agoraphobic, which is a fear of leaving 189 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 4: your home, so I didn't want to leave my car 190 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 4: or sometimes wouldn't get out to go eat at a 191 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 4: panic attacks if I left my car or the street 192 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 4: corner that I was on. And my shoplifting hit a 193 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 4: whole new level, and I realized I would end up 194 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 4: in jailer dead if I didn't turn my life around. 195 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 4: But when I ultimately got discovered, it was accidental. I 196 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,199 Speaker 4: wasn't trying to get discovered. I just I wanted to 197 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 4: stop feeling alone. The only place I told truth was 198 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 4: in this journal. I never read that journal to anybody 199 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 4: nobody knew the real me. I never was allowing myself 200 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 4: to be vulnerable enough to let myself be seen for 201 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 4: how much pain I was in or how bad some 202 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 4: of my coping skills were. And so I decided to 203 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 4: write songs very honestly and to sing them in these 204 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 4: coffee shops. My first show was for two surfers. I 205 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 4: think it was a five hour show, because that's what 206 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:41,959 Speaker 4: we did growing up in bars. 207 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 5: You do five hour shows. 208 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 4: So I wrote five hours worth of material and these 209 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 4: two surfer guys just cried during the show. I cried 210 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 4: during the show, and I was rewarded for being deeply, 211 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 4: deeply authentic. And that felt like it'll bring tears to 212 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 4: my eyes, Like what a gift that was in my life, 213 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 4: that changed my life. And then that audio and screw 214 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 4: and I got discovered. But yes, my first album, I 215 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 4: realized also for some other reason, like I'll get to 216 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 4: the million dollars. 217 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 5: Nobody gives you anything for free. 218 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 3: That is true. 219 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 4: I grew up on a ranch, I grew up with 220 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 4: horse trading. I grew up with very smart people trading 221 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 4: and bartering. Nobody gives you something for free. There's always 222 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 4: a price, So nobody was giving me a million dollars 223 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 4: like I did know enough to know that. So it's 224 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 4: the catch. Nobody's telling me what the catches. And so 225 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 4: I did go to the public library and asked for 226 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 4: a book on the music business. It's a really famous book. 227 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 4: It's still being published today and updated, but it was 228 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 4: basically called Everything You Need to Know about the Music Business. 229 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,959 Speaker 4: And so I learned about contracts. I learned about back 230 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 4: ends and royalties. I learned that the advance was alone, 231 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 4: and I learned that I'd pay it back through record sales. 232 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 4: And I learned that the money I make per record 233 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 4: sale is actually incredibly small pennies, if not fractions of 234 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 4: pennies per record. So I also learned it would take 235 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 4: maybe another couple of million dollars for my label to 236 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 4: invest in me. 237 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 5: To see if I would ever be successful. So let's 238 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 5: call that a. 239 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 4: Three million dollar investment in me. And how many records 240 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 4: would I have to sell to earn that back for 241 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 4: the label? It was going to be millions and millions 242 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 4: of albums. And because I liked my authenticity, I knew 243 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 4: I was going to make a full album At the 244 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 4: Heights of Grunge. I knew the odds of that being 245 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 4: successful were incredibly low. I also knew that the hype 246 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 4: and the bidding war over me was a tiny bit 247 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 4: to do with me, But it's mostly to do with 248 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,719 Speaker 4: the other labels competing with the other labels, and I 249 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 4: should never confuse that with my worth or my value. 250 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:40,440 Speaker 4: You knew that at such a young age. Well, it 251 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 4: was everybody pulling me. If I may be a bit crude, 252 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 4: it was like a bunch of labels pulling their dicks out, 253 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 4: seeing who's the biggest and who was going to win. 254 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 3: Like that was very obvious. 255 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 4: That wasn't like a difficult thing to like be like 256 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 4: like what's happening here? 257 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 5: No, it was really obvious what was happening. 258 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 2: You know, I'm trying to put myself in your situation, 259 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 2: and I'm thinking, like, you never had anybody look at 260 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 2: you and say you're special, Like you didn't have that 261 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 2: growing up, and that's what parents are usually for. And 262 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 2: then you have all of these people all of a 263 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 2: sudden saying you're special, in fighting over you, and you 264 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 2: still choose your authenticity. You just had this deep knowing. 265 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 4: It was an odd dichotomy. I wasn't secure, I was 266 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 4: so flawed. I was so desperate for love and attention. 267 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 4: I just, for some reason, new fame would never be 268 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 4: what healed that for me. And when I looked at 269 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 4: fame and I looked at what fame seemed to do 270 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 4: to people, I don't think fame changes you. I think 271 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 4: it exaggerates you. And if you need power to feel 272 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 4: good about yourself, you're gonna need more of it. You 273 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 4: need applause to feel worthy, You're gonna need more of it. 274 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 4: It'll never be enough. It is an addiction. And again, 275 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 4: I just knew that that was a very dangerous proposition 276 00:13:58,920 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 4: for me. 277 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 3: Decision kind of saved your career. Yeah, because I didn't 278 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:04,719 Speaker 3: know this. 279 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 2: Your first album went to radio, it debuted, and it 280 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 2: did not do well. 281 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 3: It ended up being a massive hit. 282 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, for a person who didn't care about fame, 283 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 2: you got pretty darn famous. 284 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 5: Yeah. 285 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 3: What was the hardest part of fame for you? 286 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 4: I found it very traumatizing. You know, people don't like 287 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 4: to hear hear that. You know, famous people aren't easy 288 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 4: to have sympathy for, And I get. 289 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 3: Why, but you're easy to have sympathy for. 290 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 4: H Famous traumatizing And I don't care if you've had 291 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 4: a great childhood, becoming that famous, often at young ages, 292 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 4: is a level of scrutiny and attention that. 293 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 5: It's hard to describe, but. 294 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 4: You know how you can walk down the street and 295 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 4: check out and you're just in your mind and your imagination, 296 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 4: or you can eat dinner and you're just just with 297 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 4: the person that you're eating when you suddenly realize like 298 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 4: every single moment is being scrutinized, and you're being watched, 299 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 4: and you're being followed, and that people change how they 300 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 4: act around you, and you don't get to see people 301 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 4: be their unaltered selves, their aversion of themselves that's through 302 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 4: the lens of how they perceive you. It's like living 303 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 4: in a circus full of funhouse mirrors. I also noticed 304 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 4: great fame and great power is like when planets have 305 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 4: a dense mass, right, it's been space and time around it. 306 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 4: Mass fame and mass power warps warps things around you. 307 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 4: It warps perceptions, and for me, especially with my traumatic background, 308 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 4: being touched people grabbing me, if I didn't act nice enough, 309 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 4: they'd say, ef you, you're not that great anyway, And 310 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 4: it felt just as lonely to be worshiped by strangers 311 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 4: that didn't know me as it did by having people 312 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 4: hate me that didn't know me. They feel the same. 313 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 4: It's isolating and very lonely because it's so impersonal, and 314 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 4: so you feel trapped and buried beneath perceptions you're the 315 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 4: great and terrible Oz. And so the only way I 316 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 4: knew how to handle that was a move the curtain 317 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 4: back and make sure I was always leading with like, hey, 318 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 4: I'm just a little guy behind a curtain, deeply flawed, 319 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 4: and leading with those flaws. But the other way I 320 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 4: learned to deal with it was that I didn't have 321 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 4: to do it. I didn't have to be that famous. 322 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 4: I could step off like it got much bigger than 323 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 4: I thought, incredibly grateful, But after the second album, I realized, 324 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 4: this actually just doesn't make me happy, and I'm either 325 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 4: going to be honest about it or I'm going to 326 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 4: have to go live a life of a lie. 327 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 5: And so I quit for two years. You know, I didn't. 328 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 4: I couldn't handle it psychologically what had happened, how famous 329 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 4: I got that you needed bodyguards everywhere. I had death 330 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 4: threats every day. I had people saying they'd shoot me 331 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 4: in the head. During you were meant for me. During 332 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 4: a show somewhere on tour, I had stalkers unlike anything 333 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 4: the FBI had ever seen. It wasn't fun. I wasn't 334 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 4: having fun, and so I gave myself permission to quit. 335 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 4: I quit for two years, and I just explored, like 336 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 4: what I like to be a photographer? Would I like 337 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 4: to be a novelist? Would I like to be a chef? 338 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 4: Like what else do I like to do? I realized 339 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 4: at the end of two years, I actually really loved music. 340 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 4: I wanted to do it. I actually just didn't like 341 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 4: being that famous. And in two years my fame came 342 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 4: down so much that I could go grocery shopping. Really, 343 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:39,920 Speaker 4: oh my god, it was so fast. 344 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 3: So you unlinked the. 345 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 4: Two, but I just done linked them. Yeah, And seeing 346 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 4: that was very powerful, like how quickly once you're out 347 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 4: of the public eye, how quickly you fade away. And 348 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 4: so for me that actually felt really hopeful, And so 349 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,919 Speaker 4: I got in touch in those two years with the 350 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 4: things that really drove me. You know, I knew I 351 00:17:58,200 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 4: wanted to be an artist more than I wanted to 352 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 4: be famous. I always know I wanted to have a 353 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 4: career more than I wanted to have a moment. I 354 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 4: wanted to be a songwriter. And I liked learning. I 355 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,360 Speaker 4: like experimenting, I like growing, I like doing things I've 356 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 4: never done before. And so I realized, like, because of 357 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 4: the way I'd structured my deal, I never had to 358 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 4: have another hit, I never had to have the pressure 359 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 4: of like I didn't care about the success. I didn't 360 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 4: care about that type of success. At least, I didn't 361 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 4: care that everybody knew my name, and so that bought 362 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 4: me a lot of freedom. And so I created a 363 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 4: career path for myself that's really unconventional. But I would 364 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 4: kill my momentum between every album. I would kill my fame. 365 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 4: Between every album. I would switch genres, which is sacrilege 366 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 4: and everybody hated. But it kept me so alive and 367 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 4: so engaged and so curious because I had a new 368 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 4: puzzle to figure out every time. 369 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 3: Like your label must have been so mad at you. Oh, 370 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 3: oh my god. 371 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 5: I was always just that kid. We were like, great, 372 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 5: here we go, what's she going to do this time? 373 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 2: We have to take a quick break from our conversation, 374 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 2: but we'll be right back with more from singer songwriter Jewel, 375 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 2: And we're back with Jewel, You've said that your biggest 376 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 2: accomplishment is your well being. And it's sort of a 377 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 2: funny thing to say about a person who's sold thirty 378 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 2: million albums globally, but you said from the start that 379 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 2: your one true goal in life is to be happy. 380 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 2: I think some people chase freedom, some people chase fulfillment. 381 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 2: You are clearly chasing happiness. Why happiness? 382 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 4: I've always had this thing I call my deathbed decision, 383 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 4: where I pretend I'm on my deathbed and i look 384 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 4: at this moment in my life and I'll ask, does 385 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 4: this moment matter? Is this the moment that when I'm 386 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 4: on my deathbed I'll remember? And getting to live and 387 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 4: have a career doing something you're built to do deeply satisfying. 388 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 4: Definitely know in my deathbed that that would be a 389 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 4: very satisfying feeling. What I care if I had another 390 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 4: thirty million albums sold, wouldn't I just wouldn't care on 391 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 4: my deathbed. 392 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 5: What I care? 393 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 4: If my family loved me, I would care about that. 394 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 4: And so I just started to navigate my life. And 395 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 4: I remember writing in my journal very young that I 396 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 4: wanted my life to be my best work of art. 397 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 4: I'm ambitious. I am an ambitious person. It's just that 398 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 4: my ambition was to create a different shape. It wasn't 399 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 4: just to create a song. I want my life to 400 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 4: be artful, and that means my creativity and my my 401 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 4: Whatever I have for intelligence, whatever I have for my 402 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:50,959 Speaker 4: emotionality has to apply itself artfully to my life. And 403 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 4: that meant I had to give myself time to say, 404 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 4: what else do I want to grow in my life? 405 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 4: What is the shape of my life? If my life 406 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 4: was a mandala at the end of it, was it 407 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 4: a beautiful shape? Was it thirsty? Did I ever have enough? 408 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 4: Was it ever enough? And then life just kept also 409 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 4: dealing me blows where I just had to kept also 410 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 4: healing and putting my healing as a priority. But if 411 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 4: my life was a painting or a sculpture, my mothering 412 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 4: factors into that, my relationship to my health and my 413 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 4: healing factors into that. I've tried to do that artfully, 414 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 4: and I'm only the judge of it. Only I know 415 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 4: what I think is artful, you know, just like the 416 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 4: only same with me writing a song. Only I know 417 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 4: and I think that's a neat song. It doesn't mean 418 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,879 Speaker 4: everybody else will agree, but it meant I had a 419 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 4: commitment to myself that way. 420 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 2: You've described your new exhibit, The Portal as an immersive 421 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 2: experience that explores the intersection of so many of your 422 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 2: passions music, mental health, technology and art. For someone who 423 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 2: can't attend in person, what does this look like? 424 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 4: Yeah, this was such a dream come true project for me. 425 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 4: But to walk people through the experience, you come into 426 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 4: the museum and you're met by a hologram of me, 427 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 4: and it's a two minute spoken word poem that encourages 428 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 4: us to listen. It talks about a first personal philosophy 429 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 4: of mine. 430 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 5: I call it the three spheres. 431 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 4: It's the idea that each of us travel through three 432 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 4: realms of reality every single day, often without realizing it. 433 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 4: There's our inner life, which is our thought and feelings. 434 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 4: There's our scene physical life, which is our jobs and 435 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 4: our families and finances and just the physical world. And 436 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 4: then there's the unseen. Whatever that means to you, It 437 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 4: might be a really clearly defined spiritual path. It might 438 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 4: just be that you get chills when you see a 439 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 4: James Webb telescope image, and when you read physics you 440 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 4: just feel so inspired and in awe. So it's whatever 441 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 4: gives you a sense of awe and inspiration. The idea 442 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,919 Speaker 4: for me is that mental health is a side effect 443 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 4: of these three spheres working in harmony. Mental anguish is 444 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 4: a side effect of them being in conflict, and so 445 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 4: the entire experience is designed to help people define and 446 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 4: understand what these three realms mean to them. After the hologram, 447 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 4: they walk through the contemporary wing of the museum, where 448 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 4: I curated ten pieces of their art. There's a video 449 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 4: of me next to these pieces that says, what does 450 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 4: your inner life feel like? And people are given a 451 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 4: journal and they write the answers down to these prompts, 452 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 4: and they're each relevant to the three spheres. Three about 453 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 4: your inner realm, three about what you think about your 454 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 4: physical realm, and three about the unseen. The last piece 455 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,200 Speaker 4: combines all of them, and I ask people to identify 456 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 4: one thing that causes their three realms to be in 457 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 4: conflict and one thing that helps their three realms come 458 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 4: in harmony. And then they fill in the blank of 459 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 4: a very magical sentence. I think the sentence is like 460 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 4: a magical formula. It has changed my life. The sentence 461 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 4: is I sacrifice my attachment to X, and I dedicate 462 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 4: it to why. Every morning I work with a sentence 463 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 4: I fill in the blanks for myself, will share mine. 464 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 4: I sacrifice my attachment to perfectionism, and I dedicate it 465 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 4: to actively noticing what's going right. I say that sentence 466 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 4: every morning in my meditation fifty times a day. Perfectionism 467 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 4: just has my number. It's just really hard for me 468 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 4: to get out of it, and it ruins my day 469 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 4: because nothing's perfect, by the way, So it just means 470 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 4: I'm pretty much annoyed all day. 471 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 5: It's not a fun way to navigate. Oh, it's the worst. 472 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 4: And so I'm able to redirect in every moment. And 473 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 4: this is a behavioral health tool because our brains are 474 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 4: pattern matchers, and once you tell your brain to be aware, 475 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,880 Speaker 4: to be on the lookout for perfectionism, and to replace 476 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 4: it with another tool, your brain will do its job. 477 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 3: It will tell you the fifty. 478 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 4: Billion times a day you engage, and it's this mindfulness 479 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 4: practice that then begins to help you build a new 480 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 4: pattern in a new way of being. 481 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 3: So that's the last part of the art walk. 482 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 4: It takes about an hour up to this point, and 483 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,880 Speaker 4: then people walk outside and they see a drone show 484 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 4: with an original piece of music that I created that 485 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 4: puts all of these fears together. It goes from spoken 486 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 4: word into soundscaping into song andto spoken word. It's like 487 00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 4: me meets Pink Floyd. Is the best way I can 488 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 4: just describe this music because it's unlike anything else I've 489 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 4: ever done. But it's the favorite piece of music I've 490 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 4: made in my whole career. 491 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 3: I hope you tour this. This sounds so spectacular. 492 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 2: In April of this year, you took the stage with 493 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 2: Olivia Rodrigo at Madison Square Garden and I loved your 494 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 2: TikTok explaining why you wanted to go do it and 495 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 2: meet her and meet her parents. You loved that she 496 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 2: was a writer, not just a singer, and that she 497 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,360 Speaker 2: was a good person. Amiss the monster of fame? Can 498 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 2: you see your influence in artists today? And I'm going 499 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 2: to lead the question because I see so much jewel 500 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:39,479 Speaker 2: in Taylor Swift. 501 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 3: Do you see it? 502 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 4: Oh gosh, there's a really neat demo of Taylor writing 503 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 4: a song that is you were meant for me. It's 504 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 4: the melody. It's like when we learn to write songs 505 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 4: that's how we learn. We learn by trying to figure 506 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,719 Speaker 4: out how somebody else wrote that song, and so it 507 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 4: was her own lyrics, but it was definitely you were 508 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,239 Speaker 4: meant for me, And clearly she couldn't release it, but 509 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 4: it was obviously so flattering to see that she was 510 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 4: learning how to put her songs together by listening to 511 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 4: that song and her mother mam at her really early 512 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 4: in her career. And you know, I was told what 513 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,360 Speaker 4: an influence I was on her, which is, you know, 514 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 4: that's our job. You know, Ricky Lee Jones influenced me, 515 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 4: Joni Mitchell influenced me, Josephine Baker influenced me. We need 516 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 4: these influences. We need people that inspire us to do 517 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 4: what we do, and we should be proud of those influences. 518 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 2: You said, I want to be one of the best 519 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 2: singer songwriters of my time, hold my own with my heroes. 520 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 2: That's a sixty year goal. When you're thinking in that 521 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 2: sixty year cycle, which I think is so rare, what's 522 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 2: the mark you're wanting to make? 523 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 4: Now, how do I describe it? You're not entitled to 524 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:47,959 Speaker 4: being a good writer. You just have to work at 525 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 4: it every day. One of the reasons I stepped back 526 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 4: from like the NonStop album cycle, taking steps back away 527 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,360 Speaker 4: from fame was because to write, you have to learn 528 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 4: a lot. You have to be deeply engaged with life 529 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 4: so that something can inspire you and you don't know 530 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 4: how that's going to come out of you. I think 531 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,120 Speaker 4: that for me, it meant that I had to keep 532 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,479 Speaker 4: finding a freshness and an aliveness in my body, and 533 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 4: that you never know if that's going to be received. 534 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 4: I don't know if anybody will hear this ten minute 535 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 4: piece of music called the Portal. It's strange, there's no 536 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,360 Speaker 4: format for it, there's nowhere to put that out. They 537 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 4: were just asking on streaming platforms like what category. I'm like, hmmm, 538 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,719 Speaker 4: you tell me, ah. 539 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 3: What are you calling? Mental health? 540 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: Or yeah, exactly. 541 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 4: It's strange, but it's just so authentically me. And that's 542 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 4: all you can do is do the work, do the 543 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 4: work that you believe in. No idea how I'll be remembered. 544 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 4: I just know that for me, it's very important that 545 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 4: I push myself as a writer, and for me, that 546 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 4: means something has to be alive and fresh and awaken you. 547 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 4: That isn't trying to be liked it's just trying to 548 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 4: be evolving in your own humanity. 549 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 2: Juell, thank you for sharing your time with us on 550 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 2: the bright Side. 551 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 4: Thanks, it's an honor, and thanks for helping people realize 552 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,399 Speaker 4: just how much beauty and the sunny days are ahead 553 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 4: of all of us. 554 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 2: Jewel is a singer, songwriter and a mental health advocate. 555 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 2: Her immersive art exhibit, The Portal, an Art Experience by Jewel, 556 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 2: is on display at the Crystal Bridges Museum of American 557 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 2: Art in Bentonville, Arkansas, until July twenty eighth. 558 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 3: That's it for today's show. 559 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 2: Tomorrow, journalist, television host, and author Brooke Baldwin joins us 560 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 2: to share how she found her voice and how she's 561 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 2: loving her bad Girl era. 562 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: This one is so good and so spicy, y'all, you 563 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: don't want to miss it. Okay, listen and follow the 564 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 565 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. I'm Simone Voice. You can find 566 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: me at simone Voice on Instagram and TikTok. 567 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Robe on Instagram and TikTok. 568 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 3: That's ro Ba. Y see you tomorrow. 569 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 2: Keep looking on the bright side.