WEBVTT - Invention Playlist 3: Board Games, Part 1 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:12.120 Hey, welcome to Invention. My name is Robert lamp and 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:15.200 I'm Joe McCormick. All right, today's episode, we're gonna be 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:18.200 talking about board games. So the most obvious place to 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:21.360 start here is, Joe, what about you? What are what 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:24.200 is your favorite board game? Or what are what board 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:27.920 games are you most nostalgic for? Well, uh, to have 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:30.560 a very conventional answer. I have a lot of fun 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:33.600 memories of playing Monopoly as a child, but I was 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:36.400 just thinking about how the board games I got most 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:40.840 excited about as a kid really had no staying power whatsoever. 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:43.520 They weren't games that people would still be talking about 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.080 or still playing really much twenty years later. I was 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:51.120 very interested in games that had a lot of complicated 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:56.840 physical apparatus, like I remember seeing the commercials for mouse Trap. 0:00:56.960 --> 0:00:58.800 I think the game was that had all these traps 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:01.520 that would fall down on years, and I was really 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:03.280 into that, though I don't know if I ever actually 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:04.960 played it. It was a lot to set up in 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:07.640 mouse Trap, but more recent versions of mouse Trap, by 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:10.280 the Way, have simplified the set up a lot easier 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:13.080 to play. The game itself is still pretty basic, but 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.200 at least it's not this just box of junk that 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:18.960 has to be assembled. Well. Another example I remember being 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:22.319 super excited about but never actually playing, was I took 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:24.919 a class when I took I was in a class 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.600 when I was in elementary school's computer class, and it 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:29.280 was one of those cases where they tried to make 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:32.320 it cool by gamifying the class. So if you did 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:34.319 good things in the class, you get points and you 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:37.240 could spend those on prizes like it's Chucky cheese or something, 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:40.479 you know, get a switchblade comb but that I never 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:42.760 got enough points to get this one prize, but I 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.560 always I did, and every time we went into the 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:48.160 room and it was a it was a board game 0:01:48.320 --> 0:01:52.760 called the Omega Virus, and I just had, like with 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:56.040 my wildest fantasies were about how cool this game was 0:01:56.360 --> 0:01:59.680 because it seemed like it involved a talking robot on 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.000 the board, and I think the premise was like you're 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:05.120 on a space station and an evil computer virus takes 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:07.280 it over and you like go to spaces with your 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.640 little figuring. You have to press the robot and it 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:14.760 talks at you. It's like, you know, infection spreads and stuff. Um, 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:16.840 I can't be sure because I haven't played it. But 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.280 I I'm almost positive this game must be terrible, like 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:24.520 not very fun, not very replayable. But I just sucked 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:27.320 in by that that fluff component, just that this like 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:30.560 machine that comes with it that you interact with. And 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:32.280 I'm sure I would have been suckered in the same 0:02:32.320 --> 0:02:35.560 way by those horrible looking board games that have like 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:39.560 VHS tapes that would accompany them. As has been documented 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.080 on everything is terrible, like that Star Trek board game 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:47.880 that has a the guy who keeps saying experience beach. Yeah, 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:49.840 so you mentioned the fluff. We should go ahead and 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:53.200 h and describe this for everyone who may not be 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.200 familiar when when we when we talk about board games 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:59.600 and just gaming in general. Uh, generally there is a 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.639 distinct between fluff and mechanics, and I would add that 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:06.280 there is an additional um part of this trifecta, that 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:11.240 being materials. So, for instance, the pure mechanics of a 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:14.320 game are just the rules of the game, how things move, 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:18.919 how points are acquired, and how a winner or winners 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.280 is determined. So like if someone's play testing a game 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:25.280 that they've developed, it may have very little or even 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:28.520 no fluff. It could just be a system of numbers, 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:32.680 the kind kind of game that would would just totally 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:34.640 not appeal to someone like me, like I like, I 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:38.800 like a hefty, hefty dose of good fluff, fluff being 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:43.080 the story, the character is the setting, Like, oh, I'm 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:45.080 moving pieces around on the board. What are they? Oh? 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:47.080 They it's a king and a queen and an army 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:49.800 and some guy's riding horses. Okay, now you're talking fluff. 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.320 An example of a game I think with no fluff 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:56.440 is like go. It is just tiles with rules or not. 0:03:56.680 --> 0:03:59.520 You know, pieces on a board with rules, and there's 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:03.720 no imagery. There's no story there. You know that all 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.040 that's gone. Maybe you could apply things like that to it, 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:08.120 and maybe people have in some cases for all I know. 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.320 But the Bear game itself is the draw is just 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:13.720 the mechanics. Then you've got all these other games I 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.680 think of, like candy Land and the Game of Life, 0:04:16.720 --> 0:04:18.960 where really what's attractive about the game is like the 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:22.440 illustrations on the board and the idea of what your character, 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:25.360 the story of what your characters are doing as you, 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:27.760 you know, spin a wheel or roll dice and advance 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:31.039 along spaces. Yeah. So so the fluff and candy Land 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:32.760 is really good. But also the material, you know, it 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.040 has a has a neat looking board. Also, I think 0:04:35.040 --> 0:04:37.080 it wasn't Life, the one that had the pophumatic bubble. 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:39.599 That being a bit maybe I'm thinking of another game. 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:41.520 I think you are. I think Life has a spinning 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:44.320 wheel like the Wheel of Fortune, because you know, it's Life. 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:46.880 So there was some other game. I'm sure listeners will 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.400 will will clue us in here had the papoumatic bubble. 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:51.320 You know, it had this material aspect of the game 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:52.960 where you're like, that looks so fun. I just want 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:55.600 to press that thing all day and play this game, 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.800 even though it might suck. Um. Like one example from 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:03.000 my childhood, I remember being a super board with Monopoly. 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:07.520 I hate Monopoly the passion, but I do remember loving 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.880 Fireball Island like that was. That was this game. For 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:13.280 anyone who hasn't played it or or seen that it's 0:05:13.279 --> 0:05:15.960 been it's actually been reissued. There was like a Kickstarter 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:20.160 for it. It's this game with tremendous material and fluff features. 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:23.120 It is a it's like a three D topographic island 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:27.200 and there is a monster head um temple at the 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.039 top of a volcano in the center that shoots out 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:33.520 marbles at certain times in the game to knock your 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:37.520 player back down the mountain, and so it's just you know, 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.239 it had a great ad campaign, but it was clearly 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.800 the game itself is not that complicated and probably not 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:45.520 that good. I haven't played it since I was a kid, 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:48.560 but but clearly it was leaning very heavily on material 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.480 and fluff. But this makes board games an interesting thing 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:54.839 to discuss in the context of invention, because board games 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:58.479 are not the only, not the only thing we use 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.599 that has appeal on both the material or not the 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.520 both the mechanical side and the fluff side. I mean 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:08.200 lots of inventions. Uh, the success of them depends on both. 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:11.960 Some things become very popular because they are inherently very 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:16.440 useful in their most basic functional sense, and other things 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:20.560 become popular just because there's something esthetically cool about them. 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:24.039 Oh yeah, um. Like, Like, another game that instantly comes 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:26.720 to my mind is Space Hulk, which was a game 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.359 that that I saw advertisements for as a kid, and 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:33.240 I wanted just because the the Warhammer forty thousand fluff 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:34.880 to it was so good. You know, it's like these 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:39.960 space soldiers and armor fighting xenomorph like Aliens, the tyranned 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.800 gene Steelers, and so I was instantly in. I was 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:46.680 instantly sold by the fluff, the the figurines look great. 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:48.680 So I was sold by the material and later when 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.080 I actually got to play it, it's a fine game 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:54.120 as well. So all three of these things can line up, 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:56.159 and when they do, you often have a game that 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:59.320 stands the test of time. But the curious thing about 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.039 time in board games is you can look at something 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.120 like Monopoly, or you can look at a game like 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:09.040 Space Hulk, and if you strip them down, there's nothing 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:12.880 about this game that could not exist thirty years ago, 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:17.280 a hundred years ago, a thousand years ago, because you're 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:21.400 ultimately just moving pieces around, like the fluff can change, 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:24.000 you know, it's just like what is space? So it's 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:27.679 it's people in monsters and people have been battling monsters 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:30.800 in human myth uh for in a sense time out 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:34.480 of mind. Uh. There's nothing about about most of these 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:37.520 games when you strip them down that can't exist in 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:39.880 another age. But they but they didn't. There's this there's 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:43.600 still this evolution of of the mechanics of games, the 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:46.800 way we play games and the sort of games we play. Yes, 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:48.840 that is really interesting the way that you know it 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:51.480 can seem like, how how did it take thousands of 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:54.679 years for this game to be invented? But then again, 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:58.920 almost all board games are you could probably say, derivative 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:02.280 of forms of other board games that previously existed. I mean, 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:05.280 there are a few basic types. There's like the type 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:07.960 where you try to reach a space on a board 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:11.040 before everyone else does, or the type where you try 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:14.040 to accumulate the most of a certain type of token 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:17.880 or you know, money, type of currency. Uh, and then 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.600 there's the kind where you have armies that battle each 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:23.680 other until the other one is eliminated. So while we 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:26.680 keep coming up with new games that have never existed before, 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:29.440 almost all the games we come up with are in 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:32.320 some way that they've got ancestors in terms of their 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:35.520 basic format and play style. Absolutely, so you could take 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:38.800 various modern games take them back in time, and not 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:43.400 only would would would even ancient people recognize it as 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:45.719 a game. They would probably they might even be able 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:48.080 to say, oh, well, that's that's that's kind of like 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:49.680 this game that we play. It's kind of like a 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:52.000 it's a racing game, or it's a fighting game, etcetera. 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.920 Of course, board games are not something that is found 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.600 in nature. They are a product of human civilization, so 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:00.360 they had to be invented at some point. And that's 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:02.520 what we're gonna be looking at today. What is a 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.640 board game, what does it mean, how is it invented? 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:08.640 And what role does it play for us? Now, before 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:11.679 we explore the the invention and the role of board 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.559 games in human culture, we usually like to ask the 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:17.560 question about an invention, what came before it? Right? That 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.320 helps you understand what it actually is. And so I 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:22.880 was trying to think what came before the board game. 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:25.280 It's not like, you know, there was a there was 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:28.080 a pre board game board game that we know about, 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:30.240 so it wasn't quite like that. But one thing we 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:32.640 can be very sure of is that before we had 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:34.880 board games, what do you do with a board game? 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:37.120 You play it. So before we had board games, we 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:38.920 had play That's right, if you look at a at 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:41.760 a board game or you know, in this whole episode, 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.400 you can also think a little outside of just board 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:47.240 game and think of games that maybe don't actually involve 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.240 a board or a play surface. What are they but 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:54.800 kind of a simulation of something in reality with lower stakes. 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:58.720 Usually uh, and that's something that can exist even without 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:02.559 some sort of physic coal apparatus or materials. Right. And 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.560 certainly that's something we see animals do as well. Right, Well, 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:07.840 I mean we certainly don't see animals play board games. 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:10.240 We do see them play yeah, yeah, we we see them, 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:12.560 let's say, play fighting where it's like they're fighting, but 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.600 they're not really fighting. The stakes are not the same, right, 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:19.520 And this is a really interesting psychological and biological question. 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:21.920 It's interesting to me. But also there's a whole field 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:26.319 of study around the study of play. What is play? Exactly? 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:28.920 What is a game? It's one of those things. You know, 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.800 it's in the pornography category. We know when we see it. 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:35.640 But it's hard to set out a comprehensive definition of 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:38.960 what exactly play is, or what exactly a game is. 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:43.080 In fact, the philosopher Ludvig Wittgenstein used the example of 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:46.840 a game as his prime illustration of how not all 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:50.800 useful categories can be bounded by a fixed set of 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:54.959 universal characteristics. You know, this is one of his philosophical principles, 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:58.400 like some concepts and categories instead operate on this principle 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:04.559 that he called family resemblances. Quote a complicated network of similarities, 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:08.439 overlapping and criss crossing. And to give a better example 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:10.400 of this, I want to quote from a section of 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:14.360 his book Philosophical Investigations that explains this thinking with with 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:18.559 a few abridgements. So Wittgenstein Writ's quote. Consider, for example, 0:11:18.600 --> 0:11:22.160 the proceedings that we call games, I mean board games, 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:26.160 card games, ball games, Olympic games, and so on. What 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:28.880 is common to them all? For if you look at them, 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.360 you will not see something that is common to all, 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:36.160 but similarities, relationships, and a whole series of them at that. Look, 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:40.080 for example, at board games with their multifarious relationships. Now 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:43.320 pass to card games. Here you find many correspondences with 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.200 the first group, but many common features drop out and 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:50.040 others appear when we pass next to ball games. Much 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.040 that is common is retained, but much is lost. Are 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:57.440 they all amusing? Compare chess with knots and crosses? Or 0:11:57.520 --> 0:12:01.040 is there always winning and losing or competition between players? 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.680 Think of patients. In ball games, there is winning and losing, 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.040 but when a child throws his ball at the wall 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.480 and catches it again, this feature has disappeared. Look at 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:13.280 the parts played by skill and luck at the difference 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:16.320 between skill and chess and skill and tennis. I think 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:18.840 now of games like ring a ring of roses. I 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:22.199 think that's like ring around the rosie. Uh. Here here 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:25.400 is the element of amusement. But how many other characteristic 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.679 features have disappeared? And we can go through many many 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:31.640 other groups of games in the same way, can see 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:34.920 how similarities crop up and disappear. And the result of 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:39.280 this examination is we see a complicated network of similarities, 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:45.240 overlapping and criss crossing, sometimes overall similarities, sometimes similarities of detail. 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.440 And I've always thought that's a really interesting observation that 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:51.240 we have these categories. Game is one of them. I 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:55.120 guess play would be another one where we can identify 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:56.800 it when we see it. We point out a thing 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.520 and say that's a game or that is play, but 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:04.800 can't put together a comprehensive definition that includes everything that 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.840 is a game or everything that is play. Right, Yeah, yeah, 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:11.040 I love I love what he's said here because it 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:14.120 it makes me think, for instance, of something like like bowling, 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.559 Like bowling is is this uh this activity that you know? 0:13:17.640 --> 0:13:20.439 Certainly one can make an argument for game, One can 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.839 make a strong argument for sport, and I think there 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:27.000 are elements of the two, like bowling. To me, it 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:30.600 feels like an activity where the world of sport and 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:34.719 game converge and perhaps cause a little bit of category confusion. 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.000 Wait do I detect from this? Are you staking out 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.720 of position that sports are not games? I'm I'm I'm 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.360 saying that the distinction kind of falls into what he's 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:45.439 talking about here. You know, like you you look at 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:49.000 the baseball game, you look at a game of monopoly 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:51.240 or cards, and yeah, there are some things that line 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:54.080 up about them, and yet there is a distinctive difference 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:57.240 between the two. Yeah, it can be really difficult because 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.800 so if Witgenstein is right, we're faced with a problem 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.880 trying to say, organize a scientific study of the idea 0:14:03.920 --> 0:14:07.040 of play or of games, because we want to understand 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.920 what play is and what role it plays, what games are, 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.840 and what purpose they serve. But we have trouble creating 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.760 like an airtight definition. There always seem to be some 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:18.920 examples of things that just don't quite fit the definition 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.160 you come up with. But we would still look at 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:24.240 those things and call them games or play. And yet 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:27.480 for the purposes of research, it's important to have clear definition. 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:30.360 So a lot of what these researchers do is just 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:32.920 try to come up with the definition, and they can 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.800 end up feeling kind of, uh, I don't know what 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:38.520 the word is, kind of kind of multifarious and plotting 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:40.800 as far as definitions go, Like, they've got a lot 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.720 of clauses in them, but I want to read one 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:45.840 I came across that I feel like is a pretty 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:49.680 good biological definition of play. Might not get everything, but 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.320 it's one of the best I've read. And it was 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.600 set up by a University of Tennessee researcher named Gordon 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:59.160 Burghardt in the American Journal of Play in two thousand ten. 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:03.040 And this is this is his definition. Quote. Play is 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:08.520 repeated behavior that is incompletely functional in the context or 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:11.800 at the age in which it is performed, and is 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:15.880 initiated voluntarily when the animal or person is in a 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:20.160 relaxed or low stress setting. So that that that might 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:21.720 be kind of hard to wrap your brain around, but 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:23.760 I want to break out it's got like five parts there, 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.880 because already I'm thinking this applies to everything from hunting 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.800 to well, no, that's the part. Okay, So, so first 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:35.040 thing is that the behavior is not functional. It doesn't 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:39.280 contribute to current survival. So hunting wouldn't count unless you're 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:41.760 doing it recreation. I feel like a lot. I mean, 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:43.400 there are a lot of people who do it recreation. 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.320 There are a lot of people who certainly need to 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:50.840 hunt to some degree or certainly consume the the food 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:54.680 that they obtain through hunting. But anyway, I continue, Well, okay, 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:58.560 so you might in that case class recreational hunting in 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:01.760 fact as a form of play. Maybe it is, but 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:04.080 so it's at least in the animals who need to 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:07.280 hunt to survive. Hunting is not play because hunting is functional. 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.560 So play is not functional. Number Two, it's done for 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:13.200 its own sake. It's this is what we would call fun. 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.280 It's intrinsically motivating. Right. You don't have to do it 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:21.320 for some other reason. It is itself attractive to you 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:25.400 as an activity. Right. You're not expecting to obtain food 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:29.040 by it. You're not expecting to obtain a mate by it. Uh, 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.680 you were doing it just for the love of the game, right. 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:34.800 It pulls you in on its own power. Three, The 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:38.920 behavior is different from normal survival behaviors in at least 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.200 one respect. So something that is exactly the same as 0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:44.560 things you do for survival, even if you're not currently 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:47.560 doing it for survival. That's probably not play right. Play 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:52.320 tends to, in Burghart's words, quote, it is incomplete generally 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:55.840 through inhibited or dropped final elements. Think about the way 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.000 like play fighting can like have the first parts of 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:01.160 a fight there, but don't actually go in for the 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:06.359 kill or anything. So gladiator competition play in some cases, 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.560 well that might be something up for debate. Yeah, but 0:17:09.960 --> 0:17:15.200 Burghart also points out exaggerated awkward or precocious movements um 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:19.679 or behavior patterns with a modified form sequencing or targeting 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:24.000 um so like attack behaviors against a thing that would 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:27.560 not be normally a target of attack. I think about 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:30.399 the way, like a dog will play with a ball 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.320 like it is a piece of prey that I don't 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.200 think the dog actually thinks that the ball has meat 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:38.760 in it. It's playing with the ball, right, But it 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:42.000 does the same things to the ball roadly that it 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.800 would do to say, a rat that was in the house. Okay, 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:47.800 that's the third thing. Fourth thing, behavior is repeated. You 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.159 know you can do it more than once. Uh. And 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:53.800 then fifth, it happens when stress is low and this 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.040 doesn't have to mean that there is no stress, but 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:58.840 it just means it's not something that happens while you're 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:02.400 currently like be chase to buy a predator. And given 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.840 this kind of definition, again, I think we can probably 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.280 find ways that it might not perfectly fit what our 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:09.399 intuitive ideas of play are. But I think that's a 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.520 really good place to start, um and and that sort 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:15.719 of helps us think about what the roles of play 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:19.520 and games might be for biological organisms like us. All right, 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:21.080 on that note, we're going to take a quick break, 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:29.760 but we'll be right back, and we're back. One of 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:32.119 the things, of course, we mentioned earlier, is that we 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:36.080 know play predates things like board games because play is 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:38.679 present in non human animals. I mean, it's there, and 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:42.520 they're actually debates over how many animals it's present in, like, 0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:46.119 for example, it's extremely common among mammals. It seems almost 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.600 universal among mammals. Like people have generally seen the way 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:52.640 dogs will chase and wrestle each other, the way kittens 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:55.560 stalk and pounce on each other and engage in various 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.480 forms of play. Fighting cats are I think, sometimes even 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.280 more playful than people give them credit for. Oh yeah, 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.000 especially to the indoor variety that are cut off from 0:19:04.000 --> 0:19:06.960 their natural world and of course, you know, partially insane 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.320 because of what we've done to them. Uh, they're kind 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:11.879 of in that permanent state of kiden hood. For instance, 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:15.439 my cat um stalks and attacks my feet pretty much 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:18.560 every day, but does not seem to be doing it 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:22.439 with intent to um maime and consume my feet. No, 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:25.720 I mean, I would guess that's probably play. It is 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.880 done intrinsically for the fun of doing it right for her, 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:31.439 it's not. I don't find it tremendously fun myself, but 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:33.680 she loves it. She can't get enough of it. Well, 0:19:33.680 --> 0:19:35.639 why can't your feet take a joke? It's more the 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.760 claws and the teeth than the joke. I'm all hot 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.280 for the joke. Uh. So, yeah, we we know this 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:43.320 is there in these Uh. I guess we consider them 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:45.880 since their predatory mammals. We you know, we think about 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.800 them as having like more complex brains. But it's also 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:51.240 there in say, mice like I was reading an article 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:55.679 by the researchers Leelle and Dugatkin and Serena Rodriguez for 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:59.960 a Berkeley publication, and they were pointing out the researches 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.720 found that mice usually start playing about fifteen days after 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:07.520 they're born UH, and that play activities peak around nineteen 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:11.120 to twenty five days. And this seems to coincide with 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:16.399 neurosciences revealed coincide with development of synapses in the cerebellum 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:19.800 and those those synapses are necessary for muscle control in life. 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:21.879 So there seems to be something going on where like 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:25.640 young mice are playing around the same time their brains 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:29.200 are developing the stuff that they need for for running 0:20:29.200 --> 0:20:32.520 around and surviving with with muscle control. And also, mice 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:35.399 tend to show greater brain development when they're raised in 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:38.920 environments with wheels and other play structures than in environments 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:41.880 without them. Give my something to play with and their 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:44.560 brains do better. So this is the basic idea that 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:48.840 of play as a rehearsal for something, play is practice 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:52.359 for skills one will need as an adult, yes, or 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:57.360 play being necessary for just normal brain development um. And 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:00.359 both of those are strong theories about why play cists 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:02.080 in the animal world. That will come back to that 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:05.200 in some caveats in just a minute. UH. An interesting 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:08.720 question I came across is is their play among non mammals. 0:21:08.720 --> 0:21:11.280 We know it's pretty much universal among mammals, but there 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:14.680 are all these debatable reports of play among various birds 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:18.920