WEBVTT - What's Ahead for Citizen Trump 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:05.680 You're listening to Bloomberg Law with June Grosso from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:10.840 Former President Donald Trump bid farewell to Washington today, the 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:15.200 first president in modern history to boycott his successors inauguration. 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:18.000 What's the road ahead for a man who has never 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:21.639 adhered to political norms? Joining me is Tina Davis, the 0:00:21.680 --> 0:00:25.120 executive editor of Bloomberg Legal News. You know what's been 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:29.640 happening with the Trump Empire while he's been president. If 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:31.760 you look at kind of all of the holdings of 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:36.600 Trump organization, the president came into office worth about three billion. 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:40.760 And even though we've had a brilliant economy and excluding 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:44.640 the pandemic for most of the four years of his term, 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.199 and there's also a massive tax cut program that was 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:51.040 implemented under his administration, he's actually leaving about five million 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:54.400 dollars poorer than he came in. And that's most of 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:56.920 it because of the downturn in the real estate market 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:00.240 and obviously the downturn in the tourism business. The come 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:02.319 as a resultable pandemic. This is not a great time 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:05.720 to be in real estate, either commercial or residential, certainly 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:07.479 in New York City, and it's not a great time 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:11.040 to be offering things like golf trips for a lot 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:14.560 of populace that's still locked down, and his company carries 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:18.360 a billion dollars in debt. Is he personally liable for 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.800 that and can he cover it? He's not personally liable 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:25.400 for all of that debt. He's personally liable for about 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:28.720 three million dollars of that debt, and that's being held 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:31.640 by Deutsche Bank, which is looking to extricate itself from 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:33.520 its relationship with the president. So he's gonna have to 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:35.200 find another lender to take on that debt, or at 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:37.360 least Deutsche Bank is going to have to find someone 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:39.600 to offload that debt too. But the other thing to 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.200 think about when you're looking at the stet load, I mean, 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:44.160 it's not a huge stebt load in comparison to the 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:46.479 values of the properties. And the other thing to think 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:48.800 about is, you know, you don't have banks right now 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:50.720 that are desperate to be in the real estate business. 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:52.680 Nobody's desperate to be in the real estate business. So 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:55.400 that might also help you know, again, if if it 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:59.480 comes to a worsening financial situation, you know, you as 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:01.960 a bank necessarily want to own a hotel right now, 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:05.279 or want to own a huge commercial property at the moment. 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:08.640 That also means it's going to be difficult to sell 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:12.960 assets to raise money. Correct And look, I think, as 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:15.200 I said, this is not there's no indication at present 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:19.560 that there are kind of severe financial constraints facing Trump. 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.840 As he returns to Trump's word, but it is not 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:25.400 a great time to be in these businesses. He's in 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.600 prior years made a lot of money from licensing his name. 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:31.640 It's not clear exactly what that will look like going forward, 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:34.720 since we have seen a lot of companies distanced themselves 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:38.760 in the aftermath of the capital siege. So he's got 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.640 a base of of assets. Whether or not he can 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:43.839 build on that as is an open question, and how 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:47.119 he will build on that is an open question. He's 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:51.960 been counted out many times before and he's managed to 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:55.000 come back from those. Tell us a little bit about 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.239 his comebacks. Yeah, absolutely. I mean when you think of 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.280 Donald Trump, it's always everything is done in a rather 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:05.720 big way. So you've had the spectacle their bankruptcies after 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:08.160 he overextended himself. You know, there was a Trump Airline 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.160 at one point. There are a lot of businesses that 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:13.080 he got into and was not entirely successful with and 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.120 in fact, if you sort of think about his most 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:18.240 recent rise, you know, when he got the job on 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.120 The Apprentice, he was not necessarily in the best financial 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:24.639 position of his career. That job helped launch him into 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:27.880 another kind of stratosphere, both in terms of earnings and 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.239 in terms of having his face before the American public, 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:33.440 which I think was incredibly helpful as he began this 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.720 presidential run. And again if you think about comebacks, and 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:39.160 nobody thought he would win in twenty sixteen, and he 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:42.560 managed to overcome all the skeptics and become the first 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:46.640 businessman president who never held an elected office before. So 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:49.240 you can never really again sort of count him out. 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:51.520 I think that's what we've learned. It has a lot 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:56.600 changed since the Capital riots. For example, before the riots, 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:02.360 there was talk of a Trump net work. Yeah, is 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.200 that more difficult now or is it out of the question. 0:04:06.200 --> 0:04:08.640 I think it's not entirely out of the question. And 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:10.640 I guess the reason I would say that is because 0:04:10.680 --> 0:04:15.640 we've seen so many times that businesses and corporations have 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:18.840 distanced themselves and then come back to him. I mean, 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:22.479 thinking the immediate aftermath of what happened in Charlottesville. There 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:24.839 are a lot of people who quit from the various 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:27.479 sort of test force that were part of advising the 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:30.680 White House, and then those people eventually came back around. 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:33.520 So if you're talking about, I think for media and 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:36.320 social media specifically, that's one of the places where we 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:40.719 saw perhaps the greatest reaction when the President lost the 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:44.719 megaphone that he had in Twitter. That's a real difference, 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:46.880 you know, that's a very direct way that he had 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:49.520 of reaching out to all of his followers get eighty 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:53.880 eight million followers on Twitter. Losing that that microphone, that megaphone, 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.880 as you will, is a real sort of game changer 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:00.560 in terms of you don't really hear as much him, 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:03.120 and it will be very interesting going forward to see 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:05.479 what he uses to replace that. And perhaps that is 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:09.159 a media channel. He's talked before about wanting to create 0:05:09.600 --> 0:05:12.040 some sort of network that would compete with Fox, which 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.880 he has integrated as you know, not being conservative enough 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:18.159 from his view. But perhaps it's also a social media channel. 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:21.040 You know, we've seen Parlor shut down and then ultimately 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:24.279 able to get back online. Maybe there's another way for 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:27.200 him to connect with folks. And he has a tremendous 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:30.440 amount of information that he's gotten just from his app. 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.080 So you know, if you are a follower of Trump 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.679 and you've downloaded his app, he has your phone number, 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:37.919 your email. He has a lot of great information that 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:41.599 if you're looking to monetize the base, you have the 0:05:41.640 --> 0:05:44.080 potential ability to do that. You sort of think about, 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.479 how do you create potentially a new social media base, 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.000 how do you reach your followers if you're not able 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.760 to use the normal methods of Facebook or Twitter. And 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:58.039 has there actually been talked about a revival of The Apprentice? 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:00.720 There has, although he said in the asked he wouldn't 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:02.880 do it. But as I said before, I don't think 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:06.000 that you ever completely discount any possibility when it comes 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:08.720 to this president. He's done so many things that nobody 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:11.280 expected him to do over the past four years and 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.480 obviously before that as well. He will be looking for 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:17.320 some sort of way to connect with the people who 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.479 believe in him, and whether that's through traditional media, whether 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.320 that's through building another network, whether it's through taking a 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:26.640 stake maybe in one American News or Newsmax, which are 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:30.560 two media outlets that have really been supporting him. There's 0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:33.480 a potential path for him in the years had Simon 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:36.320 and Schuster. I think it was canceled their book deal 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:40.840 with Senator Josh Holly after the riot. But is a 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:44.919 huge book deal for Trump still a possibility. Oh, I 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.359 would say so. And I think, you know, it's a 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:50.560 little bit different canceling a book deal for a senator, 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:52.200 and this is again, this is a book deal that 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.640 was about he was writing about technology companies. I think 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:59.200 there will be appetite, kind of regardless for a memoir 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:01.480 from the president, which is one of the traditional things 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.680 that presidents do, aside from playing golf and setting up 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.000 their presidential libraries. You know, the tradition is that you 0:07:07.040 --> 0:07:09.640 write a memoir and you usually make several million dollars 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.320 off of that book deal. I would be really surprised 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:15.119 if no one wanted to bid for that memoir, because 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:18.160 there is appetite for it. Trump has written several books 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:20.520 in the past, including most famously The Art of the Deal. 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.160 All of those, of course written with ghost writers. But 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:26.040 he's shown an interest in book publishing in the past, 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:29.360 and I wouldn't expect publishing to turn its back on him, 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:32.400 because this would be an interesting book no matter who 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:34.640 you supported, No support. It would be an interesting book 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:37.040 to read his sort of take on the past four 0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.760 years and talk a little bit about legal exposure. Now, 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.320 so tell us what some of the possible federal cases 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:47.000 against him might be. So the federal cases get more 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.000 and more interesting. Up until two weeks ago, I would 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:52.160 have said that was probably not a great deal of 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:55.600 of a chance that the Justice Department would necessarily file 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:59.480 charges against him. But in the aftermath of what happened 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:03.239 at the spital in January six, he's also potentially facing 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.440 charges of incitement if the U. S. Attorney in the 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.440 District of Columbia decides to pursue that. He is facing 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:14.160 potential obstruction of justice charges if the Biden administration, if 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:16.680 their Justice Department decides to move forward with that. So 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:19.320 those are some of the federal charges cases that are 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:22.400 outside of the federal jurisdiction. I'm thinking specifically about from 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:24.600 a couple of cases in New York. And he has 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:28.280 the New York Attorney General looking at his taxes and 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:31.720 what he's done there, and you have the Manhattan District 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.240 Attorney who famously went all the way to Supreme Court 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:37.319 to get access to his financial records. He looks into 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:40.800 potential fraud by the Trump organization and by Donald Trump himself. 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.440 As far as the federal cases, you know, before the 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:49.360 Capital riot, it was reported that Joe Biden basically wanted 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:51.960 to move on. He didn't want the beginning of his 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:58.280 presidency tarnished by federal charges against Trump. But has that 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:02.599 whole dynamic change since the riot, Well, I think that 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:05.520 remains to be seen. I mean, the constant refrain we've 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:08.120 gotten from the Biden administration is that they want to 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:11.040 try to make what they see as a deliberate break 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:14.960 with the policies of the prior administration and tried not 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.520 to be seen as directing the Justice Department who to 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:22.800 prosecute and who not to prosecute. So their approach is that, 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.439 you know, they plan on being very hands off with 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.480 the just Justice Department and allowing the Justice Partment to 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:30.080 do its work. But again, I think I feel like 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.600 when you're talking about again, they're not being a huge 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:35.559 amount of kind of lock him up chance going on 0:09:35.840 --> 0:09:40.200 amongst the Biden administration officials. That may have changed. And 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:42.520 what's interesting is we heard from the U. S. Attorney 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:45.000 in the District of Columbia who was enacting the U 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:49.000 S Attorney, but is a Trump appointee that he would 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:52.439 not rule out the idea of possibly charging the president, 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:55.080 as they have hundreds of cases that are now under 0:09:55.120 --> 0:09:57.520 their jurisdiction, and they've arrested more than a hundred people 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:00.440 in association with what happened on that day. The fact 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:02.240 that he wouldn't rule it out, I think it's a 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:06.120 very interesting and very telling statement. Is there a possibility 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:10.480 of charges from the phone calls that he made to 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:14.640 Georgia officials to try to change the election results in 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:18.319 that state? Yeah, so we've heard from uh, we've heard 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.160 at least the idea that the that a prosecutor in 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:25.960 Fulton County is looking into those Um, I feel like, you, 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.640 you know, you obviously need political support for those things, 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:33.200 and I'm not sure necessarily that there would be support. 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:38.000 Even though that president has attacked numerous officials in Georgia, 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.600 including the governor and the Secretary of States there, I'm 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:42.880 not sure that that they would have kind of the 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:48.800 political will to necessarily spend their prosecutors after him. But again, 0:10:49.080 --> 0:10:52.480 in majority kind of democratic areas, and Fulton County being 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.400 one of those, you might see someone try to bring 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:59.800 a charge a state charge, um, looking at potential election interference. 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.720 Given what was that on that phone call you mentioned 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:07.679 the Manhattan prosecutors lawsuit and the grand jury investigation there 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:11.079 there it went to the Supreme Court and the Supreme 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:15.600 Court said, yes, the grand jury can get the tax records, 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:18.520 but it has to go back and be reviewed. Where 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.360 is that now? I haven't heard that much about that lately. 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:24.480 What point is it at? Yeah, I mean that's a 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:26.920 that's a really good question because one of the things 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:29.080 we've been thinking about is, you know whether or not 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:34.559 on January if somebody is going to go ahead and 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:38.520 file charges or you know, unsealing indictment against the president. 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.600 And just a reminder, the president is not immune from 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:45.000 any kind of charges while he's in office. Certainly he's 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:48.880 faced several civil cases. Um. There is just sort of 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:53.560 the idea or the mindset that you can't criminally charge 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:55.920 the US fitting presidents that has never been tested and 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:58.960 I don't think it will be in this administration. But yeah, 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.880 if you think about what's gone back and forth with 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.839 the Cyrus Fans case, that's actually back up for the 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:08.640 Supreme Court for yet another decision. And you know what 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.600 we're hearing, is that the folks in that office are 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:15.079 waiting or having to wait for the Supreme Court decision 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.160 before they decide you know exactly what they're gonna do 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:20.560 with all the information in front of them, because they 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:23.839 they're still waiting for a few key legal documents from 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:29.040 his financial records. Does he have like different law firms 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:33.840 handling different cases. Is some one person in charge of 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:38.920 all this litigation defending him? That's a good question. I 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.880 don't know that there's one single person in charge, and 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:47.000 in fact, his representation has been kind of an open question. 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:51.280 It's uh. Law firms have backed away under criticism for 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:56.160 work as that they've done on behalf of Trump or 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:59.880 on behalf of Republicans in the aftermath of the election, 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:03.240 if you're challenging the election results, between several white shoe 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:05.440 law firms that have decided that they are not going 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:08.160 to do business, and in one case, a lawyer who 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:10.040 was on the phone with him during that Georgia phone 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:14.520 call has parted ways with her law firm because of 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:16.880 what happened and because she was taking part of that. 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:21.120 So we also don't know exactly who will represent him 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:24.280 in his impeachment trial, assuming that goes forward in the Senate. 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:27.480 Um and probably that won't happen until after he's out 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.800 of office. Um. You know, if you sort of think 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:32.880 about this is a man who's been who has had 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:37.360 an incredibly litigious history. He's kept a lot of lawyers 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:41.080 busy over his time. Um, you know, you sort of 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.520 think about so it's like Mark Kasowitz, who has been 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:47.280 one of his um strongest you know allies. You know, 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:49.439 does he go back to using the people he was 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.360 using before who's in the White House. Does he have 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:54.400 a new round of lawyers that he turns to. Obviously 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:57.080 we know his close with folks like Alan dere Schwartz 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:00.640 and um, you know, other people that are equal pundits, 0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:03.400 maybe more than than practicing a lot of law at 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.040 the moment. But you know, where did he turn for 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.680 his legal representation? I think that's a very open question. Also, 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:13.440 he has failed to pay a lot of his lawyers 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:16.440 in the past, so that may be another consideration in 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:18.679 mind when you just saw whether or not to take 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.600 him on as a client. Well, when you think about that, 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:25.920 you think of specifically uh Rudy Giulietti, who has been 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:30.080 unbelievably loyal to the President over the past four years, UM, 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.440 and it was reported that he was seeking twenty thousand 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:37.040 dollars a day to represent him in these election cases. UM. 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.080 And then it was also reported that the president was 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.280 not looking to pay that amount. So what I will 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:44.280 say is, we don't know exactly what's going on there. 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:48.160 We did see in the last round of UH campaign 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.840 documents that had to be officially filed with the federal 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:55.040 Election Campaign UM that he was still making payments to 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:57.840 the same lawyers that you'd expect to see. We did 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.880 not see any payments to Giuliani as we're good as 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:04.880 of the end of UM I believe the end of November. 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.640 So we don't know if those bilges haven't come too 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:10.320 yet or if we will see something that UM in 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:13.080 the next round of campaign documents that are due to 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:15.560 be published at the end of this month. We talked 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:19.000 about the retail brand and you know whether that's going 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.000 to take a big hit or not. What about his 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:26.760 MAGA merchandise and all those things. Yeah, so as part 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.840 of a lot of companies kind of walking away from 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:34.480 Trump and Trump related entities in the aftermath of January six, 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:39.160 we did see the Canadian retail giant Shopify basically say 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.280 that they would no longer support the sites that we're 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.920 selling Donald Trump merchandise and the official merchandise specifically, So 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:49.840 we did see that part of the website. It's becomes 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:54.040 not very functional after Shopify went through its support UM. 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.160 In fact, it was basically the fight was asking people 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.760 to email their orders, in which if you've ever done 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:01.800 on on shopping, just feels like you're working in the 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:05.200 you know, the medieval times. To try to do that UM. 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.640 Over the weekend, that site did get back up and running. 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:11.400 We're not quite sure exactly who the alternative supplier is 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.720 that they're using to sort of keep the infrastructure working 0:16:13.760 --> 0:16:18.080 so if they can continue to process payments from that UM. 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:20.840 But I mean you can still buy a Maga hat 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.680 if you want to on his website UM, and and 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.400 all sorts of other merchandise. So, I mean, this is 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:28.760 a president who's never shied away from putting his name 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.440 on UM a lot of items. I'm thinking of Trump 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.680 Steaks and Trump Vodka in particular. UM. I would expect 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.200 that to still be a stream of revenue for him 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:41.200 going forward. Thanks Tina. That's Tina Davis, Executive editor of 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:46.680 Bloomberg Legal News. It was a pardon blitz. In Trump's 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:51.040 last twelve hours in office, the former president pardon seventy 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:54.880 three people and commuted the sentences of seventy more, joining 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:57.960 me as former federal prosecutor Robert Mints Apart in mcarter 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:01.360 and English, Bob, the pardon power is one of the 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:06.200 most unrestrained powers the president has. The pardon power comes 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:09.280 from the first clause of Article to Section two of 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:13.040 the Constitution, which provides the President shall have power to 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:17.360 grant reprieve and pardons for offenses against the United States, 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:20.800 except in cases of impeachment. So this is an extremely 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:24.600 broad power. It's vested by the Constitution and the president, 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:27.679 and there's very little the Congress can do to constrain it, 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.760 short than teaching the president is they believe it's an 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:34.520 abuse of power. There are some limitations on this very 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:39.760 broad pardon power. For example, a president cannot pardon anybody 0:17:39.920 --> 0:17:43.480 for a state offense. His partnering power only extends the 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:47.119 criminal offenses that are federal, and it also does not 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:49.800 allow the president to pardon somebody for a civil offense. 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:54.080 So again it's limited only to federal criminal offenses. The 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:58.119 only explicitit constitutional limitation and the president's pardon power is 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:02.680 that a president cannot ardon himself or herself in order 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.680 to avoid impeachment. Even if that did occur, it would 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:11.280 not preclude the House from bringing charges against a president 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:15.119 for crimes and misdemeanors that would formant a bill of impeachment, 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:19.040 nor would it prevent a Senate ultimately trying the president. 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:23.440 How specific does a pardon have to be? Parties typically 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:26.080 are given after a person has been convicted of a crime, 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:29.760 and then they specifically referenced the crime. So, for example, 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:35.359 President Trump had part of Scooter Libby, Paul Manifort, George Papadopolis, 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:38.399 and Riser Stone in what is a more typical party 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.800 In each of those cases, after asserting that a full 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:46.280 and unconditional pardon has been given, the pardon that goes 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:49.560 on to specify the statutes that each of those individuals 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:53.960 were charged with violating that described in detail the punishments 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.840 they were given. In the case of Michael Flynn, the 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:01.120 president's former National Stary advisor, that was quite unusual because 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.640 it not only pardoned Flynn for a crime for which 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:08.280 had guilty, but it also included some very broad language 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.560 which partnered him for any and all possible offenses within 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:15.879 the jurisdiction of the Special Council's investigating authority or leading 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:19.120 in any manner to the Special Council's investigation of Russia's 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:23.600 attempted interference in the twenty sixteen presidential election and links 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:28.159 to the Trump campaign. One of the big surprises was 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:33.800 the partnering of Trump's former strategists Steve Bannon, And apparently 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:36.440 it was whether or not Trump was going to give 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:39.680 that pardon that kept them from announcing the list. Why 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:43.000 do you think that was such a controversy for Trump? 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:45.480 It's difficult to say what was going on in the 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:49.160 President's mind with regard to Steve Bannon. He's had an 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:52.679 on again, off again relationship with Mr Bannon over the years, 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:55.960 where at one point he was Mr Trump chief strategists 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.919 and architects of his twenty sixteen presidential campaign, and another 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.080 point he was on the output the White House. And 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:05.119 it may be that the President was trying to decide 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:08.480 ultimately whether he thought that a pardon was appropriate here. 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.920 In this case, Mr Bannon had been charged in August 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:15.679 of last year with the fraught defrauding contributors to a 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.679 privately funded effort to build Mr Trump's wall along the 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:21.840 Mexican border. The pardon of Mr benn in this case 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:25.160 was notable because among all the pardons that were issued here, 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:27.080 and I think there's about a hundred and forty three 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.480 that were issued today, this was the only one in 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:33.800 which an individual who had not yet been convicted of 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.160 an offense was given a pardon. In this case, Mr 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:38.600 Bennon had been charged and he was set to stand trial, 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:41.159 but he had not yet been convicted of any crime. 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:44.960 On the overwhelming majority of pardons and commutations that have 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:48.480 been granted by presidents happened for those individuals who have 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:52.480 already been convicted and sentence of criminal activity. There was 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:57.600 also a pardon of a Republican mega donor. It seems 0:20:57.640 --> 0:21:01.000 as if most of the pardons he issued were for 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:05.040 someone related to him in some way, connected to him 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:08.679 in some way, not out of the blue. There have 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:13.119 been controversial partners issued by presidents in the past. For example, 0:21:13.640 --> 0:21:18.160 President Clinton's pardoned Patty Hurst, the first newspaper heiress, had 0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:22.880 been involved with a radical weather underground. Clinton also pardoned 0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:25.920 his half brother Roger Clinton, had been convicted in that 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:30.520 of cocaine trafficking. Another example of a pardon that was 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:35.320 considered controversial was when President Obama in seen commuted the 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:39.280 thirty five year prison sentence of Wiki League's source Kelsey Manning, 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:44.520 who was arrested in for releasing information regarding the wars 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:48.399 in Iraq and Afghanistan to the Wiki League's website. Perhaps 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.800 President Clinton's most controversial parton was that of Mark Rich, 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:56.359 who was a billionaire fugitive after his ex wife Denise 0:21:56.480 --> 0:22:00.639 Rich had given generously to Democratic sources, including more than 0:22:00.680 --> 0:22:03.280 a hundred thousand dollars to support Hillary Clinton's New York 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:06.320 Senate run on four in the fifty thousands to President 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:11.520 Clinton's presidential library. But in this case, President Trump's pardons 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:15.720 has been more closely aligned with people that he knew, 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:19.480 either directly or indirectly than most of the other controversial 0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:23.520