Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: Chris Harrison and Lauren Zema coming to you from the
Speaker 1: home office in Austin, Texas. We are taping this the
Speaker 1: day after.
Speaker 2: The morning after we are both on oh, I don't know,
Speaker 2: six hours of sleep. We stayed up as the country.
Speaker 2: Yeah sure, I'm one of the you know you and
Speaker 2: I are both such news junkies. We had to stay
Speaker 2: up and watch what happened. And I will say, no
Speaker 2: matter how anybody feels this morning, I think I hope
Speaker 2: it is going to be really good for our country
Speaker 2: moving forward, that we didn't have a week long question
Speaker 2: mark about the selection, that we did get those results
Speaker 2: last night, just so that we can all try to
Speaker 2: move forward together.
Speaker 1: Here's what we know like right now, Donald J. Trump
Speaker 1: is the forty seventh president of the United States. The
Speaker 1: Republicans are going to take the Senate. I think the
Speaker 1: House is still somewhat in doubt at this hour that
Speaker 1: we're taping the and it does look like he's probably
Speaker 1: also going to win the popular vote for president. So
Speaker 1: that's what we know heading into as far as the
Speaker 1: details go. But we're not going to spin this podcast
Speaker 1: talking about the details and the results. You can go
Speaker 1: elsewhere for that.
Speaker 2: This is not here also for us, as we always
Speaker 2: tell you guys, and we're not here to talk about
Speaker 2: how we feel about the selection. But I think that
Speaker 2: Chris and I have both been probably I mean, I'll
Speaker 2: say it for me, tell me if you agree, babe.
Speaker 2: I've been more wrapped up in this selection than any before,
Speaker 2: as I've said another podcast, because of the media, because
Speaker 2: of how the media has acted, and so we wanted
Speaker 2: to come on and talk about what these results mean
Speaker 2: for the future of media.
Speaker 1: Because I think out of my entire life. Again, I'm
Speaker 1: in my fifties, so I have been a part of
Speaker 1: and seen many elections. Going back to Jimmy Carter. I
Speaker 1: hate to say how old I am, but hey, Jimmy.
Speaker 2: Still with us, member his family, said he was going to.
Speaker 1: Vote, he dropped the one vote for Kamala, and he
Speaker 1: ended up losing his home state of Georgia. So Jimmy
Speaker 1: Carter did not deliver Georgia. But two things that drastically
Speaker 1: I have seen change in the last three elections, and
Speaker 1: that's what you and I really wanted to dive into.
Speaker 1: And I think this is something that has changed forever
Speaker 1: more number one media number two, and this goes right
Speaker 1: next to it, so that would be one. I guess
Speaker 1: maybe in one A would be polling, which is a
Speaker 1: part of the media. Those two things have been disrupted,
Speaker 1: turned upside down unlike never before. And I don't and
Speaker 1: you don't want to be too verbose that the day after,
Speaker 1: but I think it's safe to say those two things
Speaker 1: have been changed forever, and that's what we wanted to
Speaker 1: talk about today.
Speaker 2: Yes, and I do think we also want to bring
Speaker 2: up the celebrity part of it a little bit too,
Speaker 2: because us as journalists there it is I knew, I knew,
Speaker 2: I knew your thoughts because we obviously covered entertainment journal
Speaker 2: celebrity journalism. And you know, that's part of the reason
Speaker 2: why we don't share our endorsements with you guys as well,
Speaker 2: is because I don't know. I just think there's a
Speaker 2: lot of a lot of places you can get news
Speaker 2: and facts and media, and my biggest thing is to
Speaker 2: encourage people to seek it out on their own and
Speaker 2: to seek in this day and age, the source of
Speaker 2: the information. To go watch the full interview, to go
Speaker 2: watch the full clip, to not just judge based on
Speaker 2: ten seconds you see someone grab on the internet. But
Speaker 2: you know, Chris and I covered entertainment journalism. That means
Speaker 2: we're trained in journalism. But I'm not going to go
Speaker 2: out there and advise people on how to vote because
Speaker 2: I the only politics I know is what's available for
Speaker 2: everybody else to look into. So on that note, let's
Speaker 2: get into the media. Let's get into our industry. Last night,
Speaker 2: when we were watching you and I always flip back
Speaker 2: and forth, we watched CNN a little, We watched Fox
Speaker 2: a little, We watch MSNBC a little, We look on
Speaker 2: Twitter a little, and we try to really get a
Speaker 2: full picture. What was your overall reaction last night in
Speaker 2: terms of the coverage of the results.
Speaker 1: The coverage of the results was actually what what again?
Speaker 1: And what I found interesting is even the results as
Speaker 1: they were coming in were obviously very partisan. As you
Speaker 1: were watching CNN and MSNBC, they were much slower to
Speaker 1: the take and the realization because Fox was calling states,
Speaker 1: especially the swing states North Carolina, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin much faster.
Speaker 2: And Fox called Pennsylvania and then they called Trump as president. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean I would say hours.
Speaker 1: There was and everybody knew that, and by the way,
Speaker 1: the other stations knew that as well. They were just
Speaker 1: kind of like letting people go to bed. And it
Speaker 1: was really awkward last night because of the Harris campaign
Speaker 1: and the way they kind of handled it was really
Speaker 1: awkward of you guys, just go to bed. Everyone just
Speaker 1: will see in the morning. And so it kind of
Speaker 1: left MSNBC and CNN and the lurch because obviously.
Speaker 2: They didn't have anything to cover.
Speaker 1: As soon as he won Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania was
Speaker 1: over because Nevada and Hawaii, like the dominoes had fallen,
Speaker 1: and so she had no path out. So Fox called
Speaker 1: it appropriately and quickly, and so it was really interesting
Speaker 1: to flip back over and flip around last night. But
Speaker 1: I will say they they handled exactly how you thought
Speaker 1: they were going to handle it. CNN kind of muddled
Speaker 1: about in the middle. They kind of took their shots,
Speaker 1: but not so much that it was embarrassing. MSNBC, you know,
Speaker 1: more extreme, more extreme, yeah, Joy read Rachel maddout. But
Speaker 1: those are the people, you know, they are extremists for
Speaker 1: their side. If things had gone well, they would have been,
Speaker 1: you know, gloating of what a referendum. It was for them, etc.
Speaker 1: Just like you would assume Fox did last night, and
Speaker 1: that's essentially what they did. So everybody, I think played
Speaker 1: their role, which is exactly why we have the problem
Speaker 1: we have now.
Speaker 2: I thought that CNN and MSNBC were so slow behind
Speaker 2: Fox to keep people tuned in. Yeah, that's what they know.
Speaker 2: They know, especially in MSNBC, that their audience wanted Kamaa
Speaker 2: to win, so they were keeping I mean, they want
Speaker 2: those ratings that I thought they were so slow on
Speaker 2: the declaration because they wanted people to keep watching and
Speaker 2: keep holding onto hope that maybe their candidates winning, And
Speaker 2: that's not the right thing to do. The right thing
Speaker 2: to do is to report what is happening. They all
Speaker 2: have the same numbers again, no matter how you feel,
Speaker 2: they're all getting the same numbers. At this point. This
Speaker 2: isn't a game on election night. It's not a game
Speaker 2: of my source versus my source inside this or that campaign.
Speaker 2: We're just all getting the same numbers. So you could
Speaker 2: have all called it at the same time.
Speaker 1: It was interesting too. The person I felt for and
Speaker 1: I don't know his name, the guy who runs their
Speaker 1: electronic board, you know, like.
Speaker 2: On which channel on MSNBC Kernak think and by the way,
Speaker 2: the three those people, Bill Hammer, Steve and then who
Speaker 2: does guy, But the three gentlemen that handled the electronic boards.
Speaker 1: First of all, your geography, fellas is unbelievable. They all
Speaker 1: need to teach a masterclass. But knowing the states, knowing
Speaker 1: the counties, King, John King, those guys were unbelievable for
Speaker 1: all three networks across the board. They were the stars
Speaker 1: of the show because they're going in every county, every breakdown,
Speaker 1: and in at three in the morning. They're not getting
Speaker 1: lost in going back and forth between you know, two
Speaker 1: thousand and four, twenty sixteen, like all the So kudos
Speaker 1: to all of them. But what I felt for for
Speaker 1: Steve over at MSNBC is he kept showing. He was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania's read like, there's nothing I can show you that's
Speaker 1: going to show you any different. And they're like, well,
Speaker 1: it's just you know, ninety four percent is in. It's
Speaker 1: just still too close to call. And he's just like,
Speaker 1: I don't think it is, but you're right. They were
Speaker 1: trying to stretch it out and I don't blame them
Speaker 1: for that. That that to me, there wasn't bad journalism.
Speaker 1: They were very sensational and they were definitely leaning into
Speaker 1: their sides last night, But that those three gentlemen crushed
Speaker 1: it last night. It always amazes me how well they
Speaker 1: handle the boards.
Speaker 2: It was interesting. At one point we flipped onto Fox.
Speaker 2: Sean Hannity asked the question is legacy media dead?
Speaker 1: After the selection and that started our debate.
Speaker 2: And he was asking that question obviously because what people are,
Speaker 2: what that question entails is look at how this these
Speaker 2: two candidates were covered in this election cycle. Look at
Speaker 2: you know, Kamala did sixty minutes, Trump didn't. Trump did
Speaker 2: the Joe Rogan podcast, Kamala didn't. And he's kind of
Speaker 2: pointing at how much does legacy media matter? Now. I
Speaker 2: will say, for me, that question coming from Fox, and
Speaker 2: I thought, maybe you and I view legacy media a
Speaker 2: little differently. I group Fox in with legacy media too,
Speaker 2: because so you do. Okay, to me, I'm like, broadcast
Speaker 2: TV is legacy media. But maybe he meant literally the
Speaker 2: old school networks versus the cable networks. And differently, you.
Speaker 1: Can't differentiate yourself, guys. It's like your you are mainstream media. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're on team Fox CNN MSNBC, ABC, CBS, NBC, They're
Speaker 1: all I definitely put them all in the same basket
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 2: So the question is is legacy media dead because how
Speaker 2: much did it matter in the selection?
Speaker 1: My opinion, that's too extreme. It's not dead because last night.
Speaker 1: We're going to look at the ratings in the next
Speaker 1: days and I promise you what I think is dead
Speaker 1: though we're not dead. But I think what has changed
Speaker 1: dramatically is CBS, NBC and CBS. I do think the
Speaker 1: networks took a huge hit, a massive, massive hit. I'll
Speaker 1: be interested to see the huge ratings difference of who
Speaker 1: watched the networks last night, who watched cable. I grouped
Speaker 1: them all together in the mainstream media world, and I
Speaker 1: think it's way too over the.
Speaker 2: Top to sa so networks are NBCs, ABC, Cable as Fox, CNN, MSNBC, and.
Speaker 1: So my opinion is the networks did themselves a great
Speaker 1: disservice this election cycle, and I think they went a
Speaker 1: bridge too far sixty minutes the debates, just time and
Speaker 1: time again, they showed themselves to be incompetent and not trustworthy.
Speaker 1: I think that's the best word, not trustworthy. And so
Speaker 1: people I think ran more to their corners on the cables.
Speaker 1: They went to MSNBC, they went to see Ann, they
Speaker 1: went to Fox. I think they have left in droves
Speaker 1: from the networks, But I don't think you can say
Speaker 1: across the board this huge broadbrush that legacy media is dead.
Speaker 2: So on a daylight today, you know, we've been so
Speaker 2: deep in the day to day of the election and
Speaker 2: news and rallies and interviews and all that, and then
Speaker 2: on today you start to think, years from now, what
Speaker 2: will I remember. What will I remember about when the
Speaker 2: results were revealed? And what will I remember about this
Speaker 2: entire election cycle now that it's over. What will I
Speaker 2: tell kids about, you know, years from now? And I
Speaker 2: agree with you that it's the trustworthiness and most importantly
Speaker 2: the ability to question and critique, which like them not
Speaker 2: doing legacy media not doing that is what has lost
Speaker 2: the trustworthiness. I think I think that I agree that
Speaker 2: it's not totally lost. And here's why we didn't really
Speaker 2: have We had two very different candidates here. And so
Speaker 2: I don't know if this was the best test of
Speaker 2: whether legacy media still matters, because I mean, it shows
Speaker 2: that it's that they're flailing and they need to get
Speaker 2: it together, but like, we didn't have like two brand
Speaker 2: new candidates and where did each of them go? Because
Speaker 2: to me, that would have been a clearer litmus test
Speaker 2: on well, which platform really got the reach out. We
Speaker 2: had someone who'd been VP, someone who'd been president before,
Speaker 2: They're so different, were coming off of like, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, so much turmoil there. It was just such
Speaker 2: an extreme situation with so many factors. But I will
Speaker 2: remember Time magazine putting Kamala Harris on their cover without
Speaker 2: interviewing her, right. That blew my mind. It was just
Speaker 2: a few I don't even know if it was. It
Speaker 2: was maybe within the first week that she'd been announced,
Speaker 2: and she was on the cover a drawing of her,
Speaker 2: not a photo because they didn't get photo shoot with her,
Speaker 2: a drawing and the headline was something like her and
Speaker 2: I went to read it, I'm like, I'm interested. They
Speaker 2: didn't get an interview with her, right, And that blew
Speaker 2: my mind because what is that? That is journalism without critique,
Speaker 2: without question, without analysis, without direct source material. That is
Speaker 2: not journalism. I will remember that. I will remember no
Speaker 2: one asking the question. In the first few days of
Speaker 2: wait her approval ratings were at this and now she's
Speaker 2: the candidate. We didn't have a primary. Let's analyze this
Speaker 2: a little bit. And you and I have said this before.
Speaker 2: I think that hurt her as a candidate because the
Speaker 2: American people looked at it and said, wait a minute,
Speaker 2: we have questions. Journalists are supposed to ask the questions
Speaker 2: that the people are asking at home, and they didn't
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 1: I think they did a great disservice to themselves. Obviously,
Speaker 1: the major networks are in the bag for the Democratic Party.
Speaker 1: There is no more question. And I think this is
Speaker 1: a very glaring error on their part. There is no
Speaker 1: more question that they are biased. There is zero point
Speaker 1: zero percent chance that you will get unbiased news on
Speaker 1: a network. They showed themselves and I don't know whether
Speaker 1: it was just Trump and his Wait, Trump and his
Speaker 1: craziness just got the better of them.
Speaker 2: Okay, well let me just clarify for the audience. First,
Speaker 2: you mean networks? Are you including Cable and the Cable
Speaker 2: Classic broadcast stas?
Speaker 1: Listen? Yes, I'm talking. When I say networks, I mean
Speaker 1: the big three, NBC, CBS.
Speaker 2: What about the sixty minutes interview?
Speaker 1: So they should be above it, all right, They're supposed
Speaker 1: to be a bit of all.
Speaker 2: They're supposed to be totally unbiased.
Speaker 1: Box, MSNBC, and CNN. They're biased.
Speaker 2: So we know that, we know they're slanted one right,
Speaker 2: you get what you pay for.
Speaker 1: If you're listening to Rachel Maddow and enjoy Read, you
Speaker 1: know you're you're in the echo and if you're listening
Speaker 1: to Fox News, you want to be in that echo chamber.
Speaker 2: And a key difference to note for people is that
Speaker 2: the broad old school broadcast networks, NBC, ABC, CBS, they
Speaker 2: have licenses that they get, right, am I explaining this right? Yes,
Speaker 2: and and that we and we helped pay for them.
Speaker 1: And whether it was Tom Brokaw or you know whoever,
Speaker 1: back in the day, there was this air of and
Speaker 1: it's not that those people didn't have opinions, but there
Speaker 1: was an air of we're not, we're not. The cables
Speaker 1: were going to hold ourselves to a different standard. We
Speaker 1: are going to be unbiased as much as we possibly can.
Speaker 2: And there's the equal time rules.
Speaker 1: And equal time rules, which.
Speaker 2: Because they have those licenses, and you talked.
Speaker 1: About things that happened, and there was this this slow
Speaker 1: domino effect and I think the biggest glaring thing Joe
Speaker 1: Rogan did an interview with Elon Musk in the closing days.
Speaker 1: It should have been Kamala Harrison, could have been Kamala
Speaker 1: Harris and and Tim Walls. It wasn't. They denied him
Speaker 1: the opportunity to interview him interview that go on that
Speaker 1: his podcast. And it was interesting when Elon Musk went
Speaker 1: on and they were they were chatting, he and a
Speaker 1: Rogan and Rogan's like. The difference was when Tim Walls
Speaker 1: lied about stolen valor, you know, his rank being a
Speaker 1: head coach of his football team. He was not a
Speaker 1: head coach of his football team. He was an assistant coach,
Speaker 1: which you may think, oh that's not a big deal.
Speaker 1: It is he Tanneman's being in Tan Square. Oh whatever.
Speaker 1: So he lied about his rank coaching, He lied about
Speaker 1: so many things, and his time and time again was
Speaker 1: I'm a knucklehead, me not so good with words. And
Speaker 1: everybody just kind of laughed at this jolly old fella.
Speaker 1: And Rogan made a very great point. He said, nobody
Speaker 1: called him on his sh Nobody called him on his bullshit.
Speaker 1: Nobody said, sir, let's go further. What was it that
Speaker 1: made you lie about your stolen valor that you you
Speaker 1: said you were in action and you carried a gun
Speaker 1: or a weapon a time.
Speaker 2: That's not an answer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a lie. You lied. How did that happen, sir?
Speaker 1: Was it something that was just maybe perpetrated and put
Speaker 1: on you that somebody said it you kind of let
Speaker 1: it go? Was it you misremembered?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: What was it? Same thing with Tianem and Square. It's
Speaker 1: like saying I was at the jfk assassination. That was
Speaker 1: a pretty big moment in history, and so nobody pressed
Speaker 1: him on, Okay, you're a knucklehead, sir, let's go deeper.
Speaker 1: But he never had that moment, and so Rogan and
Speaker 1: I know Tim Walls wasn't running for president, but that
Speaker 1: was just a microcosm of how poor the journalism was
Speaker 1: and how much they were in the bag all along.
Speaker 1: And there were so many moments, whether it was Leslie
Speaker 1: Stall and going back to the Hunter Biden situation sixty
Speaker 1: minutes this time around with the debacle that they had
Speaker 1: the debates.
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about the debates for a minute, because
Speaker 2: I will remember going back to what well you remember,
Speaker 2: I will remember the debates and we talked about it
Speaker 2: on the podcast before, and that's where I think on
Speaker 2: CNN did a better job with Biden and with Trump
Speaker 2: back in that debate over the summer by just saying
Speaker 2: we're not going to fact check either side, and that
Speaker 2: came across more credible. And then the ABC debate with
Speaker 2: Trump and Harris, that was when they only fact checked Trump,
Speaker 2: and again, whatever your party is, that doesn't look good.
Speaker 2: People at home are going, well, wait a minute, what
Speaker 2: fact checked them both? Then be consistent and have ethics
Speaker 2: that you're standing on. And where did the I forget
Speaker 2: where the Vance Waltz debate? What network that was on?
Speaker 2: Was that on CBS? Yes, and same thing there, you know,
Speaker 2: and JD. Vance had to call them out and say,
Speaker 2: wait a minute. You guys said you weren't going to
Speaker 2: fact check, and you are a fact checking and.
Speaker 1: You're wrong, and by the way, and your facts are wrong.
Speaker 2: So they're coming across fully on the democratic side. I
Speaker 2: think that newsrooms have to look at that. I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know the exact number, but I saw statistic
Speaker 2: the other day and I think everybody can is general
Speaker 2: newsrooms are overwhelmingly democratic. They and the biggest thing, though,
Speaker 2: the biggest thing is are you able to put that
Speaker 2: aside and ask important questions and critique both sides equally
Speaker 2: to your job. That's what it's all about. We're human.
Speaker 2: It's impossible to not have a personal bias. And you're
Speaker 2: an American. You get to vote, you get to care
Speaker 2: about who's running your country, no matter what your job is.
Speaker 2: But can you put that aside? And I saw this,
Speaker 2: I just about.
Speaker 1: The giving about just about newsrooms, about ninety they went
Speaker 1: through and they're like the donations to Democratic or Republican Party,
Speaker 1: and it was like it was over ninety five percent
Speaker 1: Democrats would donated to Democratic Party. And as you look
Speaker 1: up what you're looking at, it's like even and I
Speaker 1: would they did themselves and their party a disservice by
Speaker 1: not doing their jobs. I think if they had done
Speaker 1: their jobs, which by the way, they did, they holding
Speaker 1: Trump and JD. Vance accountable actually did them a favor.
Speaker 1: They had to fight hard. And Trump even said it
Speaker 1: last night in his acceptance speech. I sent JD into
Speaker 1: the enemy territory. He would go into MSNBC, he would
Speaker 1: go into CNN. He would go in enemy territory and
Speaker 1: take it and take the beatings and the Democrats and
Speaker 1: the legacy media did not provide that, they did not
Speaker 1: give a test to Kamala Harris, and they allowed and
Speaker 1: NBC brought this up last night. Did we all do
Speaker 1: a disservice by allowing what essentially was a coup and
Speaker 1: knocking Biden out of the race and just giving it,
Speaker 1: handing it without without a debate, without a vote, without
Speaker 1: anybody asking any questions. One day President Biden is great
Speaker 1: and he's competent and sharp. The next day, Kamala Harris
Speaker 1: is your candidate. Get over it and approval. I don't
Speaker 1: blame the Democratic Party. That's that was their job of
Speaker 1: to push whatever their agenda was. But the media went
Speaker 1: along with it. They went full lockstep, and that did
Speaker 1: a huge disservice to themselves, to the Democratic Party. And
Speaker 1: if they think that people don't see that, don't feel it,
Speaker 1: and don't notice and the continued gas lighting of telling
Speaker 1: people you're seeing something and hearing something that you didn't
Speaker 1: for example, and this wasn't a major change because by
Speaker 1: now the election over, but even last week the Liz
Speaker 1: Cheney hoax and the lie about when President Trump came
Speaker 1: out and very clearly said you're sitting there in your
Speaker 1: ivory tower, and you are you and your dad, Dick
Speaker 1: Cheney love to send people to war, and you send
Speaker 1: our brothers and sisters and sons and daughters to war.
Speaker 1: You sit in your ivory tower. What would it be
Speaker 1: like if the guns were pointed at you?
Speaker 2: What would it be like if you were on the
Speaker 2: front lines? Essentially?
Speaker 1: Essentially? And you know, he said it in his Trumpian
Speaker 1: style whatever, And they perpetrated this for a couple of days.
Speaker 1: They tried to perpetrate this hoax that he threatened her life.
Speaker 1: And everybody's had enough. I think the people are just
Speaker 1: so tired of being lied to and these agendas, and
Speaker 1: the media really has failed in that department. And if
Speaker 1: if you're a news director, and if you're not looking
Speaker 1: in the mirror and taking stock and cleaning house this morning,
Speaker 1: and I'm not saying firing everybody, but if you are
Speaker 1: not thinking I need to hire people who don't talk
Speaker 1: like me, who don't look like me, who don't sound
Speaker 1: like me, you're insane.
Speaker 2: Well sure, but like that extends to who aren't my party? Right?
Speaker 2: I mean, so I'm pulling up this these statistics from
Speaker 2: the American Journalist dot org from a twenty twenty two survey.
Speaker 2: So the mores they said slightly more females and journalism
Speaker 2: now slightly more minorities in journalism right now. Also more
Speaker 2: journalists say they are democrats. You have to have diversity
Speaker 2: of party when you're covering political elections. And this is
Speaker 2: the biggest one that stuck out to me is fewer
Speaker 2: journalists value analyzing complex problems. That is a real takeaway
Speaker 2: from this study.
Speaker 1: That's like saying plumbers dislike working on drains. Your entire
Speaker 1: job is breaking down complex problem, diving in.
Speaker 2: And plumber's got to get in those.
Speaker 1: You got to get the raads.
Speaker 2: You're not doing a good job.
Speaker 1: Construction worker hates building walls. I just like roofs. I'm
Speaker 1: just going to put roofs up, but no walls. Yeah.
Speaker 1: That that truly defines and they really do. You're right.
Speaker 1: They go to the simplest answer and the talking points
Speaker 1: cannot be handed down from upon high. In my hope
Speaker 1: and my dream is that for the next four years
Speaker 1: or next two yearsuntil we get to the next midterm,
Speaker 1: is that they hold this group accountable. And they and
Speaker 1: by the way, I have no issue with it. You know,
Speaker 1: there is no question that they will because that's you know,
Speaker 1: that's been their job all along. But everybody, that's your
Speaker 1: job is to ask the questions and follow the science
Speaker 1: and and ask those questions.
Speaker 2: And and you know, part of the problem, I think
Speaker 2: has been a cultural shift that happened with the pandemic
Speaker 2: where if you asked questions, you were bad, and that
Speaker 2: in a scary way. That's thing we have to get
Speaker 2: away from as a country, as a culture. It's okay
Speaker 2: to ask questions. It's not You're not a bad person
Speaker 2: if you're questioning statistics or science or you know, we
Speaker 2: have to get the I think something that Elon Musk
Speaker 2: has been talking about a lot lately. I think I'm
Speaker 2: bringing up because he mentioned it in that Joe Rogan
Speaker 2: interview is that the solution to misinformation is more information.
Speaker 2: It's not silencing, it's more information. It's okay. Well, if
Speaker 2: you the wrong takeaway was made from this little clip,
Speaker 2: go watch the whole clip, you know, go watch the
Speaker 2: whole interview. And I do think the impact of like
Speaker 2: seeing for the first time president and vice presidential candidates
Speaker 2: sitting down for three hour podcasts with Joe Rogan. I
Speaker 2: mean that had never happened before. When have we heard
Speaker 2: an unfiltered three hour interview with candidates. I do think
Speaker 2: that's going to majorly impact the legacy media in the
Speaker 2: long run. I think people found it refreshing. I think
Speaker 2: that they saw who candidates really were instead of seeing
Speaker 2: them in these sound bites. And going back to one
Speaker 2: thing we haven't mentioned yet except briefly, but the CBS.
Speaker 2: Probably the toughest interviews Kamala Harris did were with Brett Barron,
Speaker 2: Fox and with CBS in sixty minutes. But then sixty
Speaker 2: Minutes lost their credibility there because when there were questions,
Speaker 2: they wouldn't release that full transcript.
Speaker 1: They covered their tracks, they edited the tape, they edited
Speaker 1: her interview to make her look better and more correctly, they.
Speaker 2: Wouldn't release the full transcript. And then over here you
Speaker 2: had three hour interviews that Trump and Vance were doing
Speaker 2: for all to hear. Yeah, and look, do I think
Speaker 2: that Joe Rogan pushed or grilled as much as sixty
Speaker 2: minutes did?
Speaker 1: Know?
Speaker 2: Because that's not his I'm not critiquing him, it's not
Speaker 2: his platform's And he said.
Speaker 1: He was going to do the same with Kamala Harris
Speaker 1: if she had taken the time.
Speaker 2: I don't think he would have sat and grilled or
Speaker 2: he said he wouldn't have.
Speaker 1: It was very interesting. Is and you brought up a
Speaker 1: good point, is the legacy media day? No? But is
Speaker 1: the world that the Joe Rogan's, Megan Kelly's, Tucker Carlson's
Speaker 1: that they created is that impactful one and eighty percent?
Speaker 1: And if you don't acknowledge that this morning, you're fooling yourself.
Speaker 1: That Joe Rogan interview was massive. It was massive because
Speaker 1: for both vi Ja da Vance and Trump, because whatever
Speaker 1: you thought of them, you got to hear them and
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, and I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: took away he's not weird. He's actually like jd Vance
Speaker 1: is a really brilliant mind. Holy cow. Whether you agree
Speaker 1: with him or not is beyond it's but this guy
Speaker 1: is really sharp. And you know, Kamala had the same opportunity,
Speaker 1: so did Tim Walls. They avoided it, and what they
Speaker 1: went and did was kind of the old school. You know,
Speaker 1: we're gonna I'm gonna go let Oprah talk, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: let Jennifer Lopez talk and kind of segueing into our
Speaker 1: next topic, what's more impactful these podcasts and these kind
Speaker 1: of independent journalists, or just having Oprah or the Avengers
Speaker 1: create a really cringey video for you. I think you
Speaker 1: can definitely say that those videos, those endorsements give very
Speaker 1: little weight and credence to your platform to the vote.
Speaker 1: And then what you see the impact of what Joe
Speaker 1: Rogan and all these other podcasts created, You're like, man,
Speaker 1: this is there. That is a big shift.
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting, right again, it's kind of the so okay,
Speaker 2: we're talking about do celebrity endorsements matter? Now? I do
Speaker 2: think this isn't necessarily something super new. I'm not sure
Speaker 2: celebrity endorsements have ever really mattered, but for some reason,
Speaker 2: politicians have still gone after them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, that is a very weird thing.
Speaker 2: I don't know when they've ever mattered. I really don't,
Speaker 2: because you know, this morning, let me just give the
Speaker 2: smallest focus group test. I'm talking to my mom and
Speaker 2: my sister about the results, and I brought this up,
Speaker 2: and both my mom and my sister said, no, they
Speaker 2: don't matter, and they're annoying, And I'm like, oh, are
Speaker 2: they even a negative to people at home? I I
Speaker 2: go back to the Taylor Swift endorsement of Kamala Harris.
Speaker 2: When that happened, I was like, WHOA, this could be
Speaker 2: really big. She's the biggest star in the world right now.
Speaker 2: And I sit here, Swifty, I'm a big fan and
Speaker 2: we both are. But I don't think it mattered in
Speaker 2: the long run.
Speaker 1: Did not move the.
Speaker 2: Needle biggest That's that's the best test to me, because
Speaker 2: that's the biggest star in the world right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hands down.
Speaker 2: And Trump is winning not only the electoral but the
Speaker 2: popular vote. So and what does that tell you?
Speaker 1: Well, and it's not new right, I mean like Oprah's
Speaker 1: Oprah's always going to endorse the Democrat. Bruce Springsteen is
Speaker 1: always going to Robert de Niro, Like it's the same
Speaker 1: people and they're always endorsing the right.
Speaker 2: RFK was talking about his wife, Cheryl Hines and how
Speaker 2: she's she's handled him doing this political thing, and he said, well,
Speaker 2: it's been really tough for her. She's an actress, she's
Speaker 2: on Curb your enthusiasm. He said, it's been really tough
Speaker 2: for her because her industry, probably more than any industry,
Speaker 2: is so politically involved and democratic. And by the way, Democrats,
Speaker 2: you could have had RFK one of the wilder One
Speaker 2: of the wilder choices to me is like.
Speaker 1: Il Gabrett, I don't know, I had Tulci Gavartt and
Speaker 1: r FKA worship Hero.
Speaker 2: Wish they'd been a primary anyway, So I I do
Speaker 2: think it speaks to Yeah, I don't know. It's interesting
Speaker 2: they but year after our election after election, they go
Speaker 2: for it. Politicians try to get on both sides by
Speaker 2: the way they try to get celebrity endorsements. This election,
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you what you think of this
Speaker 2: type of quote unquote celebrity endorsement that Trump had. I
Speaker 2: think he I was coming from a much more grounded,
Speaker 2: valid connected place with his endorsements. Dana White, for example,
Speaker 2: not the biggest celebrity in the world, but Dana White
Speaker 2: could get up there and say, I've been friends with
Speaker 2: him for twenty years, I've known him, I know his family,
Speaker 2: and I think that came across more genuine.
Speaker 1: And he's an endorsement, and he's an entrepreneur, he's a
Speaker 1: businessman that has created because of him.
Speaker 2: And oh, you mean Dana White has created something? Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in interesting, you know, and it's not And by
Speaker 1: the way, so has Oprah. She's the biggest entrepreneur in
Speaker 1: the history of mankind. But you're right, they were very
Speaker 1: different endorsements of Dana White Elon Musk.
Speaker 2: Well, I think part of the problem the Democrats have
Speaker 2: is over and over again, you got the same celebrities
Speaker 2: coming out. It's George Clooney, it's Oprah, It's all the
Speaker 2: same people, and so you're like, what, this doesn't seem
Speaker 2: legitimate to me. It just seems like here we are again,
Speaker 2: you know. Or Trump bringing out Elon Musk, that was
Speaker 2: a really powerful one because Elon my was a former Democrat,
Speaker 2: and because you've got i mean, everybody could agree one
Speaker 2: of the smartest men in the world. You know, this
Speaker 2: isn't an actress or a singer, and no offense. But
Speaker 2: I'm not saying they can't be smart. But so that
Speaker 2: had a different validity to it, I thought.
Speaker 1: And we can't look by you know. One of probably
Speaker 1: the most monumental shifts in the history of media was
Speaker 1: Elon Musk buying x Twitter and turning it into free
Speaker 1: press and making sure that if you wanted to see
Speaker 1: a full clip of something, it was there, and just
Speaker 1: taking the veil of secrecy, in the veil of even
Speaker 1: being able having that question. Am I you know? Am
Speaker 1: I getting the truth here? On X? Is the algorithm
Speaker 1: against me or for me or whatever? You know? Him
Speaker 1: buying X and then in being a part of that
Speaker 1: free press is massive. That was huge, But you're right,
Speaker 1: the endorsements were very different when you're getting Oprah again
Speaker 1: and Jennifer Lopez and you're getting the same ultimate.
Speaker 2: Let me add on to the X thing really quick,
Speaker 2: since you brought that up. It We all have to
Speaker 2: be aware of the algorithm. Whatever social media platform you
Speaker 2: are on. I follow people who I don't agree with
Speaker 2: because I want to keep seeing the other side of things.
Speaker 2: We have to be aware of that. The algorithm will
Speaker 2: feed you what you want to keep you in an
Speaker 2: echo chamber. But the fact that Mark Zuckerberg admitted on
Speaker 2: the record that the Biden administration had had him via
Speaker 2: Facebook censor certain information about the pandemic and about the
Speaker 2: Hunter Biden laptop for the American people was shocking to me.
Speaker 1: And Jack Dorsey and Twitter admitted as much as.
Speaker 2: Well, yes, and that they had at one point blocked
Speaker 2: President Trump taken his account down. Why are these business
Speaker 2: men have no reason, no credence to to silence, and
Speaker 2: I don't know whatever, it's their business.
Speaker 1: But when the FBI and everyone shows up your door
Speaker 1: like well.
Speaker 2: And I guess my point in all this, without getting
Speaker 2: into too many specifics, is simply this. I do firmly
Speaker 2: believe that we have that free Our country is built
Speaker 2: on free speech is our first Amendment. It is going.
Speaker 2: It is what our founding fathers were escaping was not
Speaker 2: being able to speak our minds, and being able to
Speaker 2: speak your mind means other people who disagree with you
Speaker 2: get to speak their minds. And I am very afraid
Speaker 2: and was very afraid by what some people John Carrey
Speaker 2: in particular, or Hillary Clinton were saying about how we
Speaker 2: needed to start silencing misinformation. When John Carey said we
Speaker 2: need to take a look at the First Amendment and
Speaker 2: and think about if we need to change it, that
Speaker 2: was just a few months ago, very scary to me.
Speaker 2: So I do think elon buying Twitter, and I was
Speaker 2: a little I've changed my opinion on it because I
Speaker 2: was a little like WHOA wow, okay when that first happened.
Speaker 2: But I think it's a freer place now.
Speaker 1: I would say the long and short of it is this.
Speaker 1: Celebrity endorsements are fun, they're cute, and they're fun. Overall,
Speaker 1: you have to say they're meaningless. They're not impacted because
Speaker 1: what those people can impact and this is nothing against
Speaker 1: those people. You know, I'm not making fun of Scott Bao,
Speaker 1: Hulk Cogan or Jennifer Lopez or ropers today because they're
Speaker 1: just supporting what they believe in. And good for you
Speaker 1: for speaking up and what you believe in. That's great,
Speaker 1: but your meaning fullness is zero. You can't take today's
Speaker 1: referendum and what happened last night and say anything else
Speaker 1: because look at the list of celebrities and who was
Speaker 1: backing Kamala Harris and ad meant nothing because what those
Speaker 1: people can't affect is what people vote on. Nobody and
Speaker 1: a UA can't say nobody, but clearly the majority of
Speaker 1: people are not going to vote because Jennifer Lopez, Oprah Bono,
Speaker 1: Barack Obama, whoever says you should do this. Those people
Speaker 1: aren't affecting the economy, they're not affecting immigration, they're not
Speaker 1: affecting a woman's right to choose, They're not affecting any
Speaker 1: of the issues that you care about. Those people aren't
Speaker 1: on the both with you. They're not changing the world.
Speaker 1: And so I think what you would have to say
Speaker 1: if you're just looking at the science and the facts. No,
Speaker 1: celebrity endorsements are fun, they're cute. They work at a
Speaker 1: round sometimes yeah, sometimes very cringey. Yeah, Avengers, come on, got.
Speaker 2: Come on, man, you're my family annoying.
Speaker 1: That was a really cringey video you guys released last week.
Speaker 1: But and honestly, most of those videos. Anytime anyone comes
Speaker 1: to you with a script and says everybody is doing this,
Speaker 1: if you are an agent or if you are a celebrity,
Speaker 1: don't do the group thing. It never works. It comes
Speaker 1: off really cramp.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the group thing doesn't work.
Speaker 1: Oh, those things are so bad.
Speaker 2: The timing's bad.
Speaker 1: Remember the zooms the World, the white Dudes for Harris thing.
Speaker 2: Oh, I was going back to the pandemic.
Speaker 1: Those were bad too. But anyway, so I think in
Speaker 1: the end, those people don't affect change. They're just fun
Speaker 1: and they're good window dressing when you need someone at
Speaker 1: a rally.
Speaker 2: I think that's been proven more by the selection and
Speaker 2: Beyonce actually sing wow to BT's switch. To be honest,
Speaker 2: that could have maybe maybe it's a powerful voice when
Speaker 2: in singing. I think that this election proved more than
Speaker 2: the is legacy media dad question. It proved celebrity endorsements
Speaker 2: don't make a difference. It really did. You had Taylor
Speaker 2: Swift Beyonce say I can't think of two bigger people
Speaker 2: in the entertainment industry right now.
Speaker 1: And we can go further too. How about the late
Speaker 1: night shows. Oh, Jimmy Kimmel, Stephen Colbert, John Stewart were
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty percent in the bag for Kamala Harris.
Speaker 1: They could not have campaigned harder for her. They used
Speaker 1: talking about equal time, They used their shows for nothing
Speaker 1: but propaganda for the Democratic Party. So the late night shows,
Speaker 1: I mean talk about legacy meeting.
Speaker 2: I mean Kimmel got up there and told people, don't
Speaker 2: if you're planning on voting for Trump, vote late. So yeah,
Speaker 2: he couldn't have been clear.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, there is no there is no kidding. I'm
Speaker 1: just a con.
Speaker 2: Do you remember Stuart had Waltz And I find Stuart
Speaker 2: I think he sometimes will see both sides. I find
Speaker 2: him a little bit of a different category. I think
Speaker 2: he had Walls on for an interview only I don't
Speaker 2: know if he ever I'd be curious if he ever
Speaker 2: reached out to answer Trump.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but though the late night shows you have to
Speaker 1: throw them in the bag of wow, what is their
Speaker 1: meaning anymore? And what is their usefulness? And it's very
Speaker 1: interesting because you know, did you did you end up
Speaker 1: killing your brand and your audience for your selfish thoughts
Speaker 1: deeds not? You know, like you like, who's going to
Speaker 1: go back and watch Kimmel next?
Speaker 2: All right, but here's something that I want to just
Speaker 2: give from an empathetic place. When you were in that
Speaker 2: world and you and I have been in that world, Yeah,
Speaker 2: everybody around you feels that way. I don't think I've
Speaker 2: ever told this story on the podcast before, but when
Speaker 2: I first joined ET, I joined in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen,
Speaker 2: Trump wins kind of a big time to start in
Speaker 2: a media outlet. Now, luckily we were entertainment journalism, so
Speaker 2: I wasn't so fully in it. But when Trump won,
Speaker 2: our online editor so my boss sent out an email
Speaker 2: to the entire staff, the entire staff, that said something
Speaker 2: along the lines of, I know we're all really upset.
Speaker 1: We're all hurting too.
Speaker 2: I know we're all really upset about what has happened today.
Speaker 2: If anybody needs to go home and take a minute,
Speaker 2: you can. And I'm new in this job. Can you
Speaker 2: imagine when I was there? Yeah, I'm new in this job.
Speaker 2: And I read that and I went, this is nuts
Speaker 2: to me. And by the way, I didn't vote for Trump,
Speaker 2: but I remember I read that and thought, this is like,
Speaker 2: why is she assuming her entire staff feels this way?
Speaker 2: This is we're a journalism outlet, and why regardless of company,
Speaker 2: why would you assume all of your staff felt that way?
Speaker 2: And I just realized, whoa I mean, that was literally
Speaker 2: an email signal to me, you need to feel this
Speaker 2: way here. And so I do think that maybe what
Speaker 2: you know, what you're talking about a lot of those
Speaker 2: hosts and producers and all these people, at the very least,
Speaker 2: they need to wake up the fact that the Republicans
Speaker 2: have won the Republican vote. They need to wake up
Speaker 2: and ask what is our our audience really want to see?
Speaker 2: Are we doing a disservice to our audience, no matter
Speaker 2: how we feel personally, or what are we giving to them? Yeah?
Speaker 2: That's what I would say, is our audience annoyed by us?
Speaker 2: Is that why part of why our ratings are so bad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's people from the same schools, that go to
Speaker 1: the same parties, that hang out in the same You're right,
Speaker 1: it's just they just they're in this echo chamber and
Speaker 1: there's never anybody that could possibly think there is another
Speaker 1: side to this, that somebody would possibly be thinking differently.
Speaker 2: Well, but if and if there are those people, they
Speaker 2: feel a little bit scared to speak up. I don't
Speaker 2: think it's easy to walk into a news outlet and
Speaker 2: say hello, I'm a Republican. I don't think I don't
Speaker 2: think that that's an easy thing to do, and it
Speaker 2: shouldn't be. So, you know, that's my biggest thing overall
Speaker 2: with all of this. I felt this way this whole
Speaker 2: election cycle. No matter how you feel, we should be
Speaker 2: able to talk about this stuff. We should all be
Speaker 2: able to feel differently and discuss and not lose friendships
Speaker 2: and family over these things. And we should all be
Speaker 2: open enough to hear from the other side and say,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, show me that article you're talking about her.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'd like to see that interview you're just
Speaker 2: you're referencing, and let me be open to maybe thinking
Speaker 2: differently about this or maybe not, but let's be okay
Speaker 2: talking about it.
Speaker 1: You know one thing the media did and look, they
Speaker 1: got to sell panic. They sell drama. I'm someone who
Speaker 1: knows a lot about drama. They sold panic, they sold drama.
Speaker 1: They selled gloom and doom. You know the old if it,
Speaker 1: if it bleeds, it leads. There that is a saying
Speaker 1: for a.
Speaker 2: Reason to clarify, for people to sing, it's a local
Speaker 2: news saying. If it bleeds it leads means crime is
Speaker 2: the top story on your local news broadcast, because that's
Speaker 2: what people pay attention to.
Speaker 1: Whether it affects you or not. And so that's what
Speaker 1: the media has been selling you for the last couple
Speaker 1: of years because that's gotten us to watch right. That
Speaker 1: is the algorithm. But what they won't tell you, which
Speaker 1: we will, is that you woke up this morning and
Speaker 1: the sun was shining and the world still spinning, and
Speaker 1: no matter what happened, and you get up, you go
Speaker 1: to work and you try to affect change and you
Speaker 1: try to do your best. And that is something that
Speaker 1: the media has been hammering on us and hammering is
Speaker 1: that like if he wins, the world is over. If
Speaker 1: she wins, the world is over guess what it's.
Speaker 2: Not yeah, and both and when both political parties say
Speaker 2: that and you have to and that again is it
Speaker 2: should be the media's job to sort through that, but
Speaker 2: instead they were partaking in it. One thing I wanted
Speaker 2: to ask, how about all the celebrities who said it
Speaker 2: once again that they would leave if Trump won.
Speaker 1: I would love to see if TMZ is at lax
Speaker 1: this morning. There there has to.
Speaker 2: Be is anyone flying out.
Speaker 1: There has to be a long line to you know.
Speaker 1: And I love the I always love the countries that
Speaker 1: they use, like as if we're your backup plan. It's
Speaker 1: like they're the girl that's like, well, if you know,
Speaker 1: if she won't have me, I'll date her. And it's
Speaker 1: like if the United States sucks, I'll go to Canada,
Speaker 1: or I'll go to New Zealand, or I'll go It's like, wait,
Speaker 1: we're not your backup plan. I love America, not your
Speaker 1: drunk dial in the morning when you need a hookup.
Speaker 2: I love America. And I think there's a reason that
Speaker 2: people try to come live in this country because it's amazing.
Speaker 2: And I don't think that that's good rhetoric to say
Speaker 2: I'm threatened to leave Okay, go if you want to go.
Speaker 1: Go. That is such a when you talk about privilege,
Speaker 1: when you talk about like how blessed you are, the
Speaker 1: fact that you get to say that, right, there are
Speaker 1: people the.
Speaker 2: Biggest, dying and losing family members trying to cross here.
Speaker 1: They will have respect for that. Yeah, And so you're right,
Speaker 1: it is the greatest country in the world. Do we
Speaker 1: have it figured out? Clearly not. We do not have
Speaker 1: it all figured out. It's not perfect. But is it spectacular?
Speaker 1: And is it beautiful? And are we going to continue
Speaker 1: to make mistakes but also improve? Yeah, that's the beauty
Speaker 1: of this country. And so, uh, this has been such
Speaker 1: a great lesson in journalism and studying this, and we'll
Speaker 1: continue to follow this because i debates that we've had.
Speaker 1: I'm just curious if you guys have been having these
Speaker 1: same talks in your own houses about how horrible the
Speaker 1: polls are and how they mean nothing. Talk about people
Speaker 1: that have lost jobs the last three elections. They've completely
Speaker 1: botched on the polls. They have gotten one. Right, Oh
Speaker 1: my gosh, how about the Iowa poll? Good lord.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we didn't really get into that, but that's something
Speaker 2: that's probably even more dead than celebrity endorsements because you know,
Speaker 2: it's interesting. I don't want to go on too long,
Speaker 2: but now I'm like, you know, I could talk about
Speaker 2: this for hours because I forgot Kamala Harris did call
Speaker 2: her daddy that she did that podcast, so and I
Speaker 2: don't know that that made that big of an impact.
Speaker 2: So again I don't know. Wrapping up on that with
Speaker 2: legacy media, I think we can declare maybe polls are dead,
Speaker 2: celebrity endorsements dead if they have no meaning. I think
Speaker 2: a valid celebrity endorsement meaning do you have a relationship
Speaker 2: with this person, or did this person leave their party
Speaker 2: for you that that's something powerful, or is this a
Speaker 2: really smart business person and so they have a different perspective,
Speaker 2: not just oh, I'm an actor and so I'm saying this.
Speaker 2: I think it has to have It has to be
Speaker 2: celebrity endorsement plus like what's the extra added value there?
Speaker 2: Not just I say vote for this one, but so
Speaker 2: not so dead. And then legacy media again we had
Speaker 2: to just these situations were so extreme, this time around
Speaker 2: a former president who had been accused of crimes and
Speaker 2: coming back for a potential comeback, and then a current
Speaker 2: sitting vice president but her candidate. The candidate dropped out
Speaker 2: and she was shoehorned in late in the game. And
Speaker 2: so these were just two such extreme cases that I
Speaker 2: don't feel ready to say the influence of legacy media
Speaker 2: is dead, but I definitely and not every podcast was effective, right,
Speaker 2: And I think that's reflective of more so the candidates.
Speaker 2: I definitely think legacy media needs to look in the
Speaker 2: mirror after this and say, how are we best serving
Speaker 2: our audience?
Speaker 1: Can you? I don't know why, I just had this thought.
Speaker 1: Let's flash forward four years and you're watching jd Vance
Speaker 1: and Shapiro debate. That's going to be the most boring
Speaker 1: issue latent debate for the media. I know the media
Speaker 1: is going to be like, right, wow, Shapiro and Dvance.
Speaker 2: As I'm saying this, do they want to look there?
Speaker 2: You're right, we need drama.
Speaker 1: Well, ratings will be down. We're just gonna have two like,
Speaker 1: really smart guys debating issues. Dang it, that's going to
Speaker 1: be weird. As they love to say, that's weird. That's
Speaker 1: going to be weird. Just two really normal educated men
Speaker 1: or women, whoever it is, Tulci Gabbard or you know,
Speaker 1: Gabby whoever. It's just normal people talking about issues. That's
Speaker 1: going to be such a boring, boring election. But thank
Speaker 1: you for listening. Elsie. It's always fun to debate these
Speaker 1: topics with you.
Speaker 2: I love it, I love you, and I love America
Speaker 2: and I hope that, I really really hope we can
Speaker 2: have a good next four years and unanalyzed and critiqued
Speaker 2: and challenged next four years by the media, do better.
Speaker 2: But that is the people of America. We can come together.
Speaker 2: That's my hope.
Speaker 1: God bless you all. We'll do this again because we
Speaker 1: have a lot more to talk about. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram at the most dramatic pod ever,
Speaker 1: and make sure to write us a review and leave
Speaker 1: us five stars. I'll talk to you next time.